Expressions researched:
"Another conclusion is"
|"Bhagavata conclusion is"
|"Bhagavatam's conclusion is"
|"Conclusion is bigger deaths"
|"Gita's conclusion is"
|"Gosvamis' conclusion is"
|"Lord's conclusion is"
|"Maharaja's conclusion is"
|"Mayavada conclusion is"
|"One conclusion is"
|"Sastra conclusion is"
|"So conclusion is"
|"Such a conclusion is"
|"Such a deluded conclusion is"
|"That conclusion is"
|"Therefore conclusion is"
|"This sort of conclusion is"
|"Vaisnava conclusion is"
|"Vedic conclusion is"
|"Your conclusion is"
|"actual conclusion is"
|"atheistic conclusion is"
|"best conclusion is"
|"clear conclusion is"
|"conclusion is"
|"correct conclusion is"
|"devotee's conclusion is"
|"first conclusion is"
|"fixed-up conclusion is"
|"foolish conclusion is"
|"harmonized conclusion is"
|"his conclusion is"
|"illusory conclusion is"
|"impersonalist conclusion is"
|"intelligent conclusion is"
|"is, conclusion is"
|"kind of conclusion is"
|"kinds of conclusion is"
|"logical conclusion is"
|"man's conclusion is"
|"means, conclusion is"
|"monistic conclusion is"
|"my conclusion is"
|"natural conclusion is"
|"next conclusion is"
|"nothingness conclusion is"
|"or conclusion is"
|"our conclusion is"
|"philosophical conclusion is"
|"real conclusion is"
|"right conclusion is"
|"scriptural conclusion is"
|"spiritual conclusion is"
|"the conclusion is"
|"their conclusion is"
|"this conclusion is"
|"true conclusion is"
|"ultimate conclusion is"
|"whole conclusion is"
|"wrong conclusion is"
Reporter: Well... So then you are not saying then that it would be impossible for...
Prabhupāda: That I never say. I say in the beginning that in order to enter moon planet you have to get a suitable type of body. That suitable type of body is not that spacesuit. Therefore the conclusion is that you cannot enter with this spacesuit. Is it clear?
Prabhupāda: Just as sunshine is not covered, it is called cloudy. But this light, whatever light you are seeing, that is also sunshine. That is not different from the sunshine. And above the cloud, there is bright. So matter means when it is covered by something, it is matter. That covering is unconsciousness. That covering is also created of the sunshine, by the same energy. And then, by the same energy it is dissipated also. So the conclusion is living being, when it is covered by ignorance, that is material.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Kalabatri(?) is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32), "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth," but patanty adhaḥ, "falls down."
Prabhupāda: So therefore your body is made out of your energy.
Bob: But when you eat the food, there is energy from the sun in the food...
Prabhupāda: No, that... I am giving the example, I am creating some energy by digesting the food and that is maintaining my body. Therefore my body is maintained by my energy. If your energy supply is not proper, then your body becomes not in proper order. Therefore the conclusion is that your body is made out of your own energy. Similarly, why this big gigantic body, universes, is not made of Kṛṣṇa's energies? How can you deny? As your body is made out of your energy, similarly, the universal body must be made by somebody's energy. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man.
Prabhupāda: So this Christo word means "anointed." Kṛṣṇa's face is anointed. And love also. And this Christ title was given to Jesus on account of his love for God. So on the whole, the conclusion is Kṛṣṇa or Christo means "love of Godhead."
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of belief. It is a fact. You have to accept another body after this body, just like you have already accepted. Your childhood body was there, and that is gone. You accepted another body. Similarly, now you have got another body. A few years after, you will get another body. So you are accepting bodies one after another. That is a fact. So you have to accept another body after this. So what kind of body I am going to get? Is this not the point of consideration? But there is no education on this point. But that's a fact. We have accepted already so many bodies. And natural conclusion is that I must accept another body. But what kind of body. Now you can select. There are 8,400,000 forms of body. So these questions are not discussed at all, but they are very important factors. That is philosophy.
Pradyumna: You said in one place, "Man is the architect of his own happiness and distress."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is an axiomatic truth even by the modern man. Yes, that "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So as soon as there is work to make your fortune, then there must be a person to decide to give you a fortunate position. Just like in an establishment, so many men are working, but there is a president. He is considering the work file, "How this man has worked?" And he is being promoted, his salary is being increased, and somebody is degraded, no promotion, rather, transferred in some other place. So natural conclusion is when there are so many varieties of life in our presence and they are, although in the same place, they haven't got the same facility, so there must be somebody who decides on this point. So how you can deny God? Our point is the Supreme Person, the president, who decides on this fact, He is God.
Prabhupāda: Man is the architect of his own destiny. If you are educated, your future is nice, and if you remain foolish, then your future is bad. Future destiny depends on present action. This life is an opportunity to make the next life, and if we behave like human beings, then in our next life we will go back home, back to Godhead. But if we behave like animals, then in the next life we will take animal bodies. That's all. All this is very nicely described in Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that human beings are meant for understanding God, but if we waste our time understanding dog, and if we become attached to dog, then we will become dogs in our next life. And if we are attached to God, we become like God, in our next life. The choice is ours.
Prabhupāda: That is our constitutional position. Just like eating and drinking. You may eat something, I may eat something, but eating is essential. You cannot say that I don't eat. That is not possible. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending—these are the bodily necessities. Similarly, the soul's necessity is to serve someone. Either you serve your country or your society or your family or your community, or at least if you nothing to serve, then you keep a dog and serve it. (laughter)
Mrs. Keating: Or what?
Śyāmasundara: A dog.
Mrs. Keating: Oh, a dog, yeah.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, the conclusion is that I have to serve. This is our position. Do you admit?
Prabhupāda: Does it mean the sand is begetting the insects?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: So their conclusion is like that. Because they see that the insects are coming from the sand. So from matter, this life is coming. This is their logic. It is called in Sanskrit: taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Everything is discussed. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya.
Prabhupāda: What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The human being is the same. But as soon as he feels that "There is Kṛṣṇa," he is spiritualist. As soon as he does not feel, he is materialist. That is the difference. It is the question of feeling. Matter means where there is absence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In other things there is also consciousness. Because there is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is material. And so far we are concerned, we have got the same consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we are superior, spiritual. So this material world means this part, and spiritual world means this part. This is the difference. Here you have got feeling. So the conclusion is when you have feeling in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is spiritual, that is superior. When you have no feeling of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is inferior. The same thing can be turned into superior and inferior by the change of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the modern science, they say when one becomes old, the memory becomes short and then they tend to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The body has changed. Therefore you have to accept that body has changed. Therefore next conclusion is when this body is lost he gets another body. Change of body. Seasonal changes. That one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, acceptance of another body. Then these modern scientists, they do not know this. They sometimes explain medical science, that blood corpuscles are changing, do they not?
Prabhupāda: Ah, na patiḥ. And one should not become husband also. Because husband is supposed to be instructor to the wife. Husband is the guardian of the wife. So he's responsible for her spiritual advancement. As much as the father is responsible for the spiritual advancement of his child, the spiritual master is responsible... Anyone who is claiming to be superior, he should be responsible for the inferior's spiritual advancement of life. So the conclusion is that they should not claim to become such and such unless they are able to save the subordinate from the imminent danger of death. Because death is there so long one is not spiritually advanced. As soon as one is spiritually advanced, he goes to the spiritual world, transferred. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). Spiritually advancement means to be transferred to the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in this material world we find almost everyone has forgotten God.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: (agrees in French)
Prabhupāda: The conclusion is that this material world is created...
Cardinal Danielou: Created...
Prabhupāda: Created for the forgotten souls.
Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that there is life after death.
Guest (2): Why, is it a faith or belief?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not faith, belief. It is a fact. Just like, I have already given you the example. You were a child. That body's no longer existing, but you know that you were a child. Therefore the conclusion is that although the body has changed, but you the soul, the knower, is still there. Therefore, when this body will be changed, you'll exist in another body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you are under direction of a perfect teacher, then your conclusion is perfect. The difficulty is that we are following imperfect teachers. Blind men. And what is the benefit of following a blind man? If the man is himself a blind man and if he follows another blind man, what benefit he will get? Both of them will fall into the ditch. That is going on. Just like this rascal Guruji Maharaja. He is a rascal and he is preparing so many rascals. And there are so many others. They are doing the same mischief, and there is no control by the government. The government is rascal. Government does not know who is real, who is imitation. Otherwise they should have checked immediately. But they do not check. They do not know.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all.
Prabhupāda: They again thinking. What is your present position? You are maintained. You cannot maintain. You are maintained by your boss. He gives you some salary and you fill up your bellies. You rascal, you want to be maintainer. You cannot maintain even a family of five heads. Therefore we say, all full of rascals. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... That is our śāstric conclusion. Anyone who is atheist, nondevotee, he is a rascal number one. Bās. It doesn't matter what post he holds. Our conclusion is that he is a rascal number one. That's all. He cannot have any good qualification. There is need of God. Who will maintain? Just like children. They require care of the parents. The people require the care of a head man, executive. This is essential. You cannot do without God.
Prabhupāda: They have so many things. They simply speak like rascals. Therefore our conclusion is: Anyone who does not know what is God, he is a rascal. That is perfection of knowledge. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know that all knowledge is imperfect unless he comes to the platform of knowing God. All knowledge imperfect. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad..., bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "When he (is) actually wise in knowledge, then he surrenders to God." That is knowledge. That is knowledge. One who has surrendered to God, one who has known God, one who is abiding by the order of God, he is the perfect man. All others, they are rascals.
Prabhupāda: That is my point. That is my point. Everything is there for Kṛṣṇa, but they're chanting "Swami Narayan." Why?
Indian man (4): There are... In Swami Narayan's sampradāya there are...
Indian man (3): (indistinct) ...you have to follow me." (Indians laugh)
Prabhupāda: So far we are concerned, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, there is no different conclusion. The conclusion is there. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).
Indian man (4): That is the right. If you...
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. They were saying they are sannyāsī,...
Girirāja: So other living entities would play the part of Rāvaṇa in other universes?
Prabhupāda: Why not? Or any other way.
Mahāṁsa: We cannot actually conceive of all these things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa being the reservoir of all pleasure, so the pleasure of fighting is there. So He can exhibit anywhere. (break) That is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we limit Kṛṣṇa like one of us, or little bigger than me, then I become doctor frog.
Prabhupāda: So unless one goes through all the saṁskāras, he is not accepted as higher caste. He is śūdra. In a brāhmaṇa family, if the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, so it is said that immediately the whole family becomes śūdra, no more brāhmaṇas. Then where is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is going on? Nobody takes care of garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. Still, they are declaring that "I am brāhmaṇa." Therefore the conclusion is kālau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "Everyone is śūdra." (break) ...no education. Still, one is called paṇḍitji. What is the meaning of this "paṇḍitji?" If he is not learned, then why do you call him paṇḍitji? (laughing) (break) That paṇḍiya is also another form of paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: So everything for the service. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased being pierced by the arrow the devotee will do that. His only business is how to please Kṛṣṇa. Just like, the example is given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī that when a man kisses a woman and bites her, she becomes pleased. Is it not? Is not a fact that that biting is pleasing? Is it pleasing? But sometimes it is pleasing. So one has to learn where to bite and when to... (chuckles) But if a rascal thinks that "Biting is pleasing. I shall bite always," then he is a rascal. (laughter) (break) ...lying down on the Yamunā beach, on the sand with His friends. And if we think, "No, there is no need of bedding of Kṛṣṇa. He was lying down on the Yamunā beach, so He will lie down on the floor." So is... That conclusion is very nice?
Prabhupāda: Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. After marrying they see it is very great responsibility. "Now let me take sannyāsa." That's all. Why you marry? Because he finds that after marriage there are so many difficulties. So irresponsible man. So after there is difficulties; that's a fact. So why should you go to the difficulty? Therefore the conclusion is the married life is not required. But if you cannot tolerate, all right, get this concession, live very gentlemanly. This is marriage. Otherwise for higher sense, higher elevation... High elevation, of course, one who is actually on the higher elevation, he is married or not married, it doesn't matter. But on the whole, the sex life is not necessary.
Prabhupāda: So we understand the matter generates from spirit. Just like I am a small fragment of spirit. You are also a small fragment of spirit. So when I am in the womb of my mother, so my big body grows. On account of my spirit, small particle of spirit, coming in the womb, in the womb of my mother, the body grows. So it is evident that this body has grown because the spirit soul is there. Suppose a dead child comes out. The matter will not grow. The material body will stop growing. Therefore the conclusion is matter grows on account of the spirit fragment.
Prabhupāda: They come to Me after much trouble. That's all. So a foolish man will take much trouble. And intelligent man will take the short-cut, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Much trouble means he's a foolish man. And this is also stated, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24). It's clearly stated there that the Absolute Truth is impersonal, but when He comes here, He appears as a person. So this conclusion is for the abuddhayaḥ, less intelligent class of men, poor fund of knowledge. Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24).
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascals, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the conclusion is that the so-called intelligent man is simply misusing his intelligence. So when he misuses his intelligence he is less than the cats and dogs. Yes. (German) And then, after death, how he'll be in peace?
Prabhupāda: Therefore next consideration should be that "Whether this condition of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease can be changed?" That is next question. And if there is possibility, then we shall try for it. But there is possibility here. The conclusion is: so long we get this material body... Because matter is not eternal. Anything you take, material—earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence and false ego—these are all material things. So these material things, they are not eternal, none of them. This table is created; it is not eternal. It will be finished at a certain date, anything you take. But I am eternal. So if I transfer myself in another nature which is eternal, then my ānanda will be eternal. That is the purpose of life.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, that you have to search out such person. Otherwise your knowledge is imperfect. Now that question will be: "How to find out such person?" The next question will be. But unless you approach such perfect person, you cannot have perfect knowledge. That is a fact. Therefore the conclusion is that we should not speculate about perfect knowledge, but we should try to approach the perfect person and receive knowledge from him. This is the conclusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes, just like... It is very common sense clue. Kṛṣṇa says the proprietor of the body is within the body. Now, you were a child. So in your child body, you were present there, and in your boyhood body, you were present there. In your youthhood body, you were present there. Now you are middle-aged. You are there. I am old man. I am there. So body, the childhood body, the boyhood body, the youthhood body, they are no more existing, but I am existing. Therefore I am eternal; the body is temporary. This is the clue. Therefore the conclusion is that as I have changed so many body but still I am existing, therefore, when I shall change this body, I will exist. Now, I have transmigrated from babyhood body to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. Similarly, I shall transmigrate to another body. A you..., young man can say, "No, no, I don't believe in the old body," but that does not mean he will not get the old body. He will get it by laws of nature. That is compulsory.
Prabhupāda: The whole world is in darkness without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So enlighten them, para-upakāra. Human life is for para-upakāra; it is not animal life. To do good to others. Cats and dogs, they are selfish. But human life should be for para-upakāra. So this is the biggest para-upakāra movement. And it is very easy to take part in it. You don't require to be very expert. You... Everything is there. You simply carry the message like peon. Kṛṣṇa says this; kindly follow; that's all. We don't say that "I say this. I have manufactured this. I have become very big man, God." We don't say nonsense. It is all nonsense. Simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa; then you are perfect. In the Western countries they are little fond of yoga. So the yoga system is also spoken by Kṛṣṇa in the Sixth Chapter. But the conclusion is, when Arjuna refused, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me. This meditation, this praṇāyāma and dhyāna, dhāraṇā, yama, niyama, dhyāna, it is not possible for me. I am a politician. I have no time either"—he said frankly—then Kṛṣṇa satisfied him that "You are already the best of the yogis."
Prabhupāda: No. In the past there was winter season. In the present there is winter season. Therefore I can say next January will be winter season. That is nice. But if it is not happened in the past or present, how you can say? That proposition is not accepted. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease, in the present there is birth, death, old age, and disease, and in the future there will be birth, death, and old age and disease. This conclusion is all right. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease. At the present there is birth, death, and old age, disease. How you can say in the future there will be no birth, no death, no old age...? That proposal is not very sound. You can say whimsically; that is another thing. But factually it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. If you don't take advice from Kṛṣṇa, God, then you are a mūḍha. So how he will adjust things? He himself is a mūḍha. A mūḍha means rascal, ass. Therefore our conclusion is that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious, he is a mūḍha. He does not know anything. He will not be able to do anything. Therefore this matter was entrusted to the brāhmaṇa to give direction. Brāhmaṇa means brahma jānatīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "One who knows the Supreme, he is brāhmaṇa." And he takes advice and gives others direction. (Bengali) Why do they go to the bhaṭṭācārya? And he knows what is the action and reaction. That was the system of the society. (Bengali) Nobody is interested. They are simply interested in politics.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is called hope against hope. That is foolishness. Therefore we say because you are expecting like that, therefore we understand that you are a fool. We can immediately understand, "Here is a grand fool." That is our study. Many fools have done like that, and you are one of them, you are also scientific (indistinct). Therefore our conclusion is "You are Fool No. 1."
Devotee: We may not be able to actually stop death, but while we're here we can at least prolong our lifetime and...
Prabhupāda: That also you cannot do. Where is the proof?
Prabhupāda: First of all you finish this limited, then you go to unlimited. You have no experience of this limited, what to speak of the unlimited. Kṛṣṇa has described you mūḍhās, and you have taken (indistinct) are mūḍhās. (indistinct) ...to have to take credit in so many way that our conclusion is following the footsteps of Kṛṣṇa. You are all mūḍhās.
Prabhupāda: But because they are all rascals. Therefore we say all rascals. They may think like that, but our conclusion is anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. He may be my teacher or father or anyone. He is a rascal. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "One who cannot save me from the impending danger of birth, death, old age, and disease, he is not my father, he is not my teacher, he is not my guru, he is not my kinsman, he is not my wife, he is not my husband." So many list. So who has got this knowledge, how to save one from the cycle of birth, death, and old age? It is only we, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. We are teaching.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually there is nothing material. When God consciousness is there, it is spiritual. This... In association with God, everything becomes spiritual. Just like there is a church and there is an ordinary house. People say, " This is church, God's place, and this is house." What is the difference? That is also made of bricks; that is also made of bricks. Why people go to the church? Why not to the house? So the conclusion is, when the atmosphere is surcharged with God consciousness, it is spiritual. Immediately. Otherwise, as soon as you forget God, then it is material. Material and spiritual means where there is no forgetfulness of God, that is spiritual. And where there is forgetfulness of God, that is material.
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā. This is māyā. The philosophy of māyā, māyā means what is not. Mā-yā. Mā means not, yā means this. So māyā means the conclusion, as you have made, that is not. That is not the fact. So we are claiming, "America is our", "Australia is our", "India is our". Nothing our. Everything God's. The best conclusion is, "It is God's property. God has given us to live. Let us thank God, feel obliged to Him, and glorify Him." That is our vision. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You accept the real position, that nothing belongs to you, everything belongs to God. You also belong to God. Your body, yourself, everything belongs to God. This body is material body. That material energy, earth, water, air, fire—everything belongs to God. This sea belongs to God, water, vast water. You have not created, neither your forefather has created. So this body is made of earth, water, air, fire, five elements. So your, the body is also God's.
Prabhupāda: That is discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "If you think there was no life before this body and if you think that there will be no life after this body, then why you are anxious for the body of your brothers and sisters?" So all these philosophies have been discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. After all, the conclusion is that they are all rascals. That's all. We have to take them as such rascals. After death everything is finished—that a child knows—but why you are making so permanent building? Piling, (imitates pile driver sound) "Donkhs!
Prabhupāda: That depends on your management, how you are raising the children. If they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is all right. So far bodily defects, you might find. But we are denying from the very beginning, "I am not this body." So by finding some bodily defects how you will decide about the spirit? Because spirit is not this body. You cannot conclude that because there are some bodily defects, therefore he has got spiritual defect. That is not right conclusion. The same example: "because there are some dirty things in the Ganges, the Ganges is no more good." That conclusion is wrong.
Prabhupāda: If you study scriptures, so in the world there are many varieties of scriptures. There is Bible, there is Bhagavad-gītā, there is Koran, there is so on, so on. So which one is correct? That also you cannot decide. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ, and nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if you consult philosophers or scientists, every scientist, every philosopher, differs from the other. Otherwise he cannot become a big scientist. He must give a different view; then he is big scientist. So nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Then where is the way to understand? The conclusion is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: (CC Madhya 17.186) "Mahājana, great personalities, recognized ācārya, what they say, you follow." That is the best system. So anyone who is speaking about God with authority—take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world—you accept him.
Prabhupāda: Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Kṛṣṇa is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, you cannot say that you have seen all the skulls. That is not possible.
Devotee: They will say they have not even found one skull from the Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: Oh. No, Vedic culture do not keep skull, they burn it. Therefore there is no opportunity for you to see the Vedic culture. Then you become defective. Because you cannot see the skulls of Vedic culture. We burn it. So therefore your conclusion is defective.
Prabhupāda: Yes, of the monkey-class men. (laughter) That's all. Therefore you conclude that the man comes from monkey. That is the conclu... Human being, Vedic culture, they burn it. So they have no opportunity to see the human being skull. The monkeys, they do not burn. So he has seen only the monkey skull, and his conclusion is, "Man is from monkey."
Prabhupāda: This is the first instruction. Just like in the body of a child the spirit soul is there. Therefore the child is becoming a boy, and the boy is becoming a young man. Young man is becoming old man. Then what is the next? Then the old man must have next body. This is very simple logic. Now... But I am the same. I was also a baby. I was a boy. I remember. But the body is no longer existing. I am existing. I know that I had such and such body. So therefore the conclusion is that after annihilation of this body, I will exist in another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So who knows this science? And there are 8,400,000 forms of body. What kind of or what form of body I am going to get next, where is that science? So we are teaching, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all these things, not only theoretically, but with scientific knowledge, philosophy, everything. You can see our... We have got fifty books of four hundred, five hundred pages each. We are teaching only about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Puṁsa, "of the human society," sviṣṭasya, "education..." Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya, sviṣṭasya, ca buddhi-dattayoḥ. Whatever big, big activities are there—education, charity, tapasya... Why these things are required? What is the meaning of becoming advanced in such things? Avicyuto 'rthaḥ: "Without any doubt, the artha, the conclusion, is that they should describe the wonderful activities of the Supreme Person." Then it is perfect education. And these rascals, they are saying, "Now we don't require God."
Prabhupāda: As soon as there will be one school and other school, that means all of them are rascals. Just like the sun rises from this side. There cannot be two schools. If somebody says, "No, no. Sun rises from this side," if that is school, he's a fool. Sun rises from the eastern side. That's all. That is knowledge. If somebody says, "No, sometimes in the western side, sometimes in the northern side," is that any value? So as soon as there will be many schools, that means the conclusion is not like that.
Prabhupāda: The most important part of the body is head, but that does not mean the leg is not important. Leg is important in its work, and head is important in its work. So we require both, head and tail both, not that simply leg or simply head. But when we make comparative study, we can understand that head is more important than the leg. If you cut your leg, you can live, but if you cut your head, you'll die. Therefore the conclusion is: head is more important than the leg. Comparative study. Otherwise head is also required and leg is also required. You collect some flowers, nice flowers, and, add with it some green foliage, it becomes more beautiful. Simply flower is not so beautiful. When it is arrayed with some green foliage, then it becomes more beautiful. So we have to take in that sense. But comparatively, the flower is more important than the foliage. But the both of them are required.
Prabhupāda: "And the other side is moist; therefore it is bad."
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. That type of stool which goes and manures the crop, that is good, evidently.
Prabhupāda: No, no, after all, stool, this side or that side.... The whole conclusion is that unless one is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he remains in darkness.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore we are trying to enlighten people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: The Ten Commandments. If one abides by the Ten Commandments, he's really Christian. Take Buddhism; if he abides by the order of Lord Buddha, then he's right. Take Muhammadans even. So it may be one is Muhammadan, one is Christian, or one is Buddhist, one is Hindu, but if he abides by the order of God, then he's religious. Otherwise bogus. We are concerned Vedic religion. Our conclusion is that to approach Lord Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Vedic, Ṛg-mantra. Or Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If one abides by this, then he's religious, or really religious. If he does not obey, then where is the religion? There is no religion. The instruction is here. One has to understand the philosophy from Bhagavad-gītā rightly and appreciate, himself, and preach. This is wanted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...
Prabhupāda: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.
Prabhupāda: Family means father, mother and children. They're missing.... The children they are seeing, the mother they are seeing, and they are saying there is no father. This is modern civilization. How is that? The children are there, the mother is there. How is that there is no father? What is this conclusion? A sane man's conclusion is if the children are there, the mother is there, there must be father. Without father, how mother can beget children? Is there any experience that without father, mother has given birth to children? The modern civilization is: mother is material nature and we are all sons, born in the womb of the material nature. So who is the father? That inquiry is lacking. But there is father, undoubtedly. And the answer is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Find out this verse. Sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10).
Prabhupāda: Bigger deaths. Conclusion is bigger deaths. Everything big. One man was dying, now many hundreds of thousands will die. Bigger deaths. You did not consider it bigger death? Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It was very frustrating, though, because for everything they were trying to do good, they found so many more things bad were coming.
Prabhupāda: If you imitate one box like that post box and put your letter, for thousand years it will lie down there. Because it is not authorized. So if somebody says this small box, red box, is as good as the post office, one may say, "Huh, this is small box. How it can be as good as the post office?" But you see. You post your letter, it will go. Therefore, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Guru is directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Because he is presenting the words of Supreme Personality of Godhead without any deterioration. Therefore he is so honored. So therefore the conclusion is guru is necessary and guru is he who is representative of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise he's bogus.
Prabhupāda: Love means there is exchange. If you love somebody, if you have not given anything to that somebody, neither you have taken something from him, where is the love? Is that love? Means imperfect knowledge. You love... The conclusion is religion means to love God, and to love God means you must know who is God. There cannot be any other alternative. You must know the person who is God. Then you exchange. That we are teaching. We are asking our disciples to rise early in the morning, offer maṅgala ārati, then bhoga ārati. Are we so fools, rascals, that we are wasting time in worshiping a doll like that? Sometimes they think like that. But that is not the fact. You know definitely, "Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is God, and we must love Him like this." That is the superexcellence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do everything definitely on positive platform.
Prabhupāda: That you do, but the position is like this. Our conclusion is that whatever they are saying, that is imperfect. That is not possible. And that is a fact. Therefore they change, after fifty years, they change. Because it's speculation. Therefore we say totally they are wrong, and they will take totally "From mythology," like that, this is going on.
Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable, do not try to understand by argument. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. So our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to take knowledge from the authority. Unless we take knowledge from the authority, however we may go on arguing, we cannot come to the conclusion. The modern scientists, philosophers, they are arguing, but they do not come to the conclusion. If you want to take conclusion... Just like two lawyers are arguing in the court, but the conclusion is given by the authority, the judge. That one has to accept. So we take authority, the Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa. He is accepted authority by all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in the śāstra also, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala, Asita. So our authority is confirmed. So if we take conclusion from the authority, then we benefit. Otherwise, with our limited knowledge, if we go on arguing, then we cannot understand the conclusion. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means in the past we existed, at present we are existing, and in future we shall continue to exist, individually. And that is our experience. I existed in the past as a child. So I existed as a person. I existed as a young man, so I existed as a person. I am an old man now, now I am existing as a person. Naturally, the conclusion is when I shall change this body, I shall remain as a person. How we can change this conclusion? I am continuing to exist as a person. I am still existing as a person. And here is the authority, He says in the future also you remain a person. So there is time factor, past, present and future, and in all these time factors I live as a person. Not only I, but also Kṛṣṇa. He says "I also remain as person. You Arjuna, you also person, I am also person, and all these soldiers and kings who have assembled, they are also persons." So our personality continues, past, present and future.
Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. Deductive knowledge is perfect if it is taken from the authority. Suppose man is mortal. So inductive process is that you examine every man whether he's mortal or immortal. So suppose you have seen millions of men, and they are all mortal, they die. Then your conclusion is man is mortal. But I can say you have not seen a man who does not die. I can say that. So this inductive knowledge will remain always imperfect. It will never be perfect, because your examination is limited. So I can that say you have not seen the person, man... Suppose if I say you have not seen Vyāsadeva, he's immortal. You have not seen Aśvatthāmā, he's immortal. So how this scientific research can be perfect, inductive? It is never perfect. Because you may be missing somebody who is immortal. Then your conclusion is wrong. There is no scope of studying all the living beings. There is no such scope. You have limited scope. So your seeing power is limited.
Prabhupāda: You can understand at any moment, but it requires little brain. Just like a child is growing or changing the body. A child is becoming a boy and the boy is becoming a young man. The body is changing, but the child cannot understand that his body's changing. Actually, the body is changing. So the young man's body is also changing, and the old man's body. Therefore the conclusion is that the body is changing, and the occupier of the body, it is the same. So on this logic, the occupier being the same and the bodies changing, it is to be concluded that when this body is changed, we get another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.
Paṇḍita: Now, this Bhagavad-gītā, this Śrī Bhāṣya of Rāmānuja, and commentary on which is Śruta-prakāśikā, composed by one Sudarśana Suri... He was later, about hundred years later than Rāmānuja. He has commented on Śrī Bhāṣya. These works are the standard works, for (indistinct). Actually it is the foundation over which the superstructure is constructed by Vedānta-deśika.
Prabhupāda: You see, we have got different philosophical... Ultimately the conclusion is how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
Paṇḍita: That is it.
Prabhupāda: So one has to accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, how He is originally the puruṣa or person. Impersonal Brahman is expansion of the rays of His personal body, exactly like the sunshine is expansion of the rays of the sun-god Vivasvān. Vivasvān is a person in the sunglobe and Kṛṣṇa is also a person who spoke the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā long, long years before He spoke the same to Arjuna. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Therefore the conclusion is that originally God is always a person. Impersonal Brahman is emanation from the personal God. In other words, God, personal God is not from impersonal Brahman, but impersonal Brahman is from the personal God. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā
Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life.
Prabhupāda: What is that book? (break) Sarvātmana yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Factually Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate shelter. If he has taken that shelter, he's free, immune. And that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed here. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if he gives such a duty, he's liable to fall down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... "Because you are giving up all other duties, don't think that you'll be liable to punishment. I'll give you protection." So the conclusion is: if one is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he's obliged to do his duty. This is the easiest way to become free from all obligation—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, I think, duśyanta-rāja?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. He has everything. He can use everything. That is God. He is not restricted by anyone. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Who can restrict Him? Then He's not God. If by a third-class man like you He's restricted of His sex life, then He's not God. He becomes under your control. But Kṛṣṇa is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. How He can be controlled by your so-called goodness and badness? So the conclusion is you do not know Kṛṣṇa. You want to bring Kṛṣṇa in your level of understanding, and that is your foolishness. So we don't care for the fools like you. This is our conclusion. Avajānanti... That is replied. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ: (BG 9.11) "Rascals, fools, they criticize Me, thinks Me that I am as good as human being." Mānusīṁ janma. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ: "The rascals do not know what is My actual position." So you have to preach in that way.
Prabhupāda: So they decided that because without soldiers and police, how they can rule over? And that, when they saw the soldiers are now joining Subash Bose and they are planning to come to India from Imphal, so they saw, "Now it is impossible." They are politicians. They could understand. So therefore the conclusion is: It is not Gandhi's nonviolence. It is Subash Bose's INA which compelled them to go away.
Hṛdayānanda: It could be stated in such a way that Harikeśa will simply help. It's not a question of restricting the BBT salesman, but just to help him.
Prabhupāda: That is all right.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have sent them also books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ekala eka.(?) One man's conclusion is not good. Better consult with him. Then?
Satsvarūpa: Then for the division of the United States, for myself, for being editor of Back to Godhead, I would go to Los Angeles for that, Back to Godhead, but would also supervise the Northwest US zone, which includes Berkeley, California; Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and the Dallas temple.
| Page Title: | The conclusion is... (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 06 of Jul, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=69, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 69 |