That is to say (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"that is to say" |"this is to say"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Eunuch, what is that eunuch?

Hayagrīva: A eunuch is...

Prabhupāda: Feminine.

Hayagrīva: Impotent, an impotent... Someone who's been castrated.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is called eunuch. By nature, neither man, neither woman.

Hayagrīva: Oh, this is also called asexual, that is to say no sex.

Prabhupāda: No sex.

Hayagrīva: Hermaphroditic means they have the physical features of both man and woman.

Prabhupāda: Oh. At the same time?

Hayagrīva: At the same time.

Prabhupāda: I do not exactly. But such people they have their own society and their means of living is that whenever there is some good occasion, a marriage or childbirth, like that, so they go there and pray God that this child may be very long living. In this way they make some prayer and get some...

Hayagrīva: These people... Now I don't understand... This takes place at..., the sixth scene...?

Prabhupāda: At Jagannātha Miśra's house.

Hayagrīva: Jagannātha Miśra's house. And his wife is who?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Last also, half an hour. One hour. And? You have got time? Two hours?

Hayagrīva: Oh, as long as you want. Nobody's going to be using that auditorium.

Prabhupāda: Then make it one hour speaking and one hour kīrtana. Or one half hour kīrtana, one hour speaking.

Allen Ginsberg: At least an hour of kīrtana, yes.

Hayagrīva: I don't know how long we will keep a big audience there. That is to say, after the first hour they might start milling out. But if we keep half an audience, that would be nice.

Allen Ginsberg: Yeah, well, half will stay. Then the other thing is what tune to use in the kīrtanas? I use several tunes.

Prabhupāda: That as you like.

Allen Ginsberg: I would like to begin with the one I've been using. Is that all right? Or do you want to end with that? Or whatever we want.

Hayagrīva: How can we get the people to join in? That's a big thing. We'd like to have the audience to join us.

Allen Ginsberg: It's an audience seated out there, huh? Let me see. How many devotees will be there?

Hayagrīva: Onstage?

Kīrtanānanda: Everyone here. More from Buffalo.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Very difficult doctrine of detachment. The Gītā Ācārya says sannyāsa is difficult, and you are likely to become a hypocrite if you, if you...

Prabhupāda: Mithyācāraḥ sa ucyate.

Guest: ...if you prematurely take sannyāsa. Therefore try and compromise the principles of sannyāsa, that is to say of renunciation with worldly action, and, I mean, performance of duty, by performing the duties without caring for the results. That is the renunciation He has preached, I have understood.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, may I ask a question? I find in medieval European philosophy two different attitudes and..., which I find difficult to reconcile perfectly. That is to say the earlier Christians, up to the thirteenth Century, I suppose, were practically only thinking about God, nothing else but God so that nature or the human being, or any... everything else, tended to disappear altogether as also in some Indian philosophy, I think. And then, later on, with more modern science and so on you've got a different attitude in the Christians themselves, that is to say an attitude of acceptance towards subordinate things so that they became independent and finally, of course, broke away altogether so that nowadays we have science without God at all. But there was a sort of period in the late middle ages when St. Thomas Aquinas, who stopped thinking about God, only about God, and gave his attention to science, so they say. Well, there was a sort of conflict there. I don't quite know what to say about it whether I'm on one side or the other. That is to say if I were to (indistinct) the earlier Christian or (indistinct) There was Aquinas, for instance, who was a saint, but he would pray into the world, if you like. I wondered whether you would disapprove of that or...

Prabhupāda: Yes, these different types of philosophers are always there, not only in the medieval age, in the previously also. It is said, na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. "A philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not present a different view." (laughter) This is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ (?). Tarka, by argument, logic, you cannot come to the right conclusion because you may be a good logician and then you meet another logician who is better than you. So his arguments may be stronger than your argument. Therefore, simply by arguments or logical premises, you cannot approach the Absolute Truth.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: Before he left, Bhagavān left me a list of questions. May I ask you some?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons.

Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity—he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees. Because they have no engagement except this animalism. Is it not? So what is the use of going to see another woman naked? You are seeing every day, every night, your wife naked. Why you are... Because they have no other engagement. The animals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the way you've been describing our solutions to the problems of the world, they seem to be on two levels. One is the extended solution, that is to say, the ultimate solution of Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of extended. You keep yourself in a limited solution. And then, when it is appreciated it will be automatically extended. You don't touch the extended. You become ideal civilized man. Others will follow.

Yogeśvara: Well, for example, ultimately, we want to live locally. These cities are not necessary.

Prabhupāda: No, you make the best use of a bad bargain. We shall depend more... Just like in New Vrindaban. They are coming to the city for preaching. So not absolutely we can abstain immediately because we have been dependent so long, many, many lives. You cannot. But the ideal should be introduced gradually. And make it perfect more and more and more and more. But there is possibility. Possibility if you live locally and make your arrangement, you get your foods... The real necessity is, bodily necessity is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is necessity. So if you can eat locally, you can sleep locally, you can have your sex life also locally and you can defend locally, then what is the wrong? These are the necessities. We are not stopping this. We are not stopping, "No more sex life." That is nonsense, another nonsense. You must have. Marry. That's all. So you can marry locally and live. Where is the difficulty? Defend. If somebody comes to attack, there must be men to defend. And eating and sleeping. Where is your difficulty? Manage locally, as far as possible. After all, these are the necessities of body. So it can be solved locally. Is it impossible? To solve the bodily necessities? What do you think? Is it impossible?

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you come here.

Dr. Sallaz: I believe on this point of view. (speaks in French with Yogeśvara)

Yogeśvara: He explains that the group that he is heading up is a little bit revolutionary in the biological field. Instead of taking biology from the point of chemical, microscopic analysis, they take biology from the point of view of energetic, that is to say, everything being energy, stemming from some source, that everything is energy.

Prabhupāda: This is nice. Actually, it is so.

Dr. Sallaz: And our last official result is, of course, a scandal for the orthodox world. We did transmute matter from one to another. We achieved transmutation like alchemists in the Middle Age, you see. And a single element which is called iron, we make from it chrome which is another single element. And it is so revolutionary that we had the experimentation made completely not from our side but from official organization in France. (French)

Yogeśvara: What he says is that the final conclusion of their research work has been...

Dr. Sallaz: One of them.

Yogeśvara: One of their conclusions has been to be able to make one element to change into another element. They were able to take iron and transform it into chrome by chemical process, almost like alchemy, he says. And this was very startling for the scientific world.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: The first thing is that this gentleman doesn't agree. He doesn't think that the major problem is ignorance. But this gentleman suggests that there is a danger, there's a danger in what he calls "spiritual pride," "spiritual egoism," that is to say, thinking that we have helped someone and actually...

Prabhupāda: But that pride is there. That gentleman is proud that he's helping someone. That prideness is there. But out of these two kinds of prideness, one prideness which is real, that is welcome. If one is falsely proud, that is useless. But if one is actually proud of doing something, then he... That is good. Just like in the Vedic literature it is recommended that you should feel ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." This is also ego. This is real ego, that "I am spirit soul." This is not bad. But when one thinks, "I am this body," he's a rascal. If one thinks that "I am servant of God," that is real ego. And if one thinks, "I am servant of Satan," that is not very good.

Yogeśvara: I think this gentleman still isn't feeling satisfied about his question.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: That how can we say that to give people..., that the only real problem is to give knowledge. There are people who are starving; there are people who are sick; there are people who are in so much distress.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot do. You cannot do. There are so many people starving in the hospital. What can you do?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Yes. I should like to do so. Uh, I think, I understood that we could... It is difficult to explain in English.

Prabhupāda: You can speak in French. He'll translate.

Robert Gouiran: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He has learnt how to be taken into things without being taken by things. That is to say that he has just let himself go, and from that letting himself go, he's been able to see things transparently. He's been able to see through things.

Prabhupāda: So what does he see?

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)

Robert Gouiran: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: (translating) "I've seen that there is the need, I have felt that there is the need to become in harmony with things which will take me where I need to go."

Robert Gouiran: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: "And to try and work and find out the true path."

Robert Gouiran: I try to work this intuition, to make it stronger, in order to feel where I have to go and to participate...

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty...? What is the difficulty in the position you are now, at present?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the lake came?

Devotee (2): Well, actually they say that that's not so important.

Prabhupāda: So your word is also not important. "That is not important. His word is important." Do you see the point? Whatever he'll say, that is important. So anyone can say something that is very important.

Devotee (3): That is to say that to understand the universe may be difficult. So therefore then they try to explain...

Prabhupāda: If you can stop, don't talk. "Why you are talking like nonsense?" If it is difficult, accept it; don't talk. Take difficult things and talk nonsense.

Devotee (3): Because they all have a yearning to want to know these things. They all have a yearning to want to know these things about the mystery of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you know from the proper person. As you are very much eager to teach us, similarly, you learn; you can teach. Why do you talk nonsense without learning? You are scientist. You have to teach me. But from which scientist you have learned? So anyone can say something nonsense and become a teacher? Not teacher, but cheater.

Devotee (3): They have many persons that they accept as authorities.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee (3): They have many persons that they accept as authorities.

Prabhupāda: They have many fools? Maybe like you?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They may think... They are rascals, they cannot think anything. We haven't got to reply all of them. Because they are rascals. They can talk all nonsense. We haven't got to take care of... Just like a child, he's talking so many foolish things. Sometimes we reply, "Yes, yes, we know." But we don't take seriously anything, anything spoken by a child. So these rascals may go on talking so many things, but we haven't got to take care of all of them. We have to do our own business. Let the dog bark on, the caravan will pass. So not that we have to take care of the barking of the dog always. That is not...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin

daiva āsura eva ca

daivo vistaraśaḥ prokta

āsuraṁ pārtha me śṛṇu

(BG 16.6)

"O son of Pṛthā, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac." (purport) "Lord Kṛṣṇa, having assured Arjuna that he was born with the divine qualities, is now describing the demoniac way. The conditioned living entities are divided into two classes in this world. Those who are born with divine qualities follow a regulated life; that is to say they abide by the injunctions in scriptures and by the authorities. One should perform duties in the light of authoritative scripture. This mentality is called divine. One who does not follow the regulative principles as they are laid down in the scriptures and who acts according to his whims is called demoniac, or asuric. There is no other criterion but obedience to the regulative principles of scriptures. It is mentioned in Vedic literature that both the demigods and the demons are born of the Prajapati; the only difference is that one class obeys the Vedic injunctions and the other does not."

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I do not know Mahāṁsa's taken. He has to return it.

Harikeśa: He never got it. And he wanted to join with Haṁsadūta, do some type of (indistinct). He's not in a very easy position right now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He could become a part of Vṛndāvana and take a team out of Vṛndāvana.

Akṣayānanda: I always wanted that Vṛndāvana should have one bus. That is to say if there is not too much endeavor to get one bus. There's so many buses floating are through the air. Why could Vṛndāvana not have one bus? In that way they can always be just like Kīrtanānanda Swami. There is always saṅkīrtana going and coming, going and coming.

Prabhupāda: Ānanda Swami?

Akṣayānanda: Kīrtanānanda in New Vrindaban. All his people, they must go out and do kīrtana and distribute books. They must. Everybody does it. In that way, I'm told this anyway. In that way the devotees are enlivened and they don't become restless in the temple. Then the same ones... It's our bus, and they will come back to our temple. So we will not lose so many good devotees because they will not be attracted to go away on others. So if we had one bus... Yaśodānandana Mahārāja I will discuss with him. I already have, I'll just try to discuss it more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurudāsa Swami is coming to Vṛndāvana with a bus. He said he's going to give it to Vṛndāvana.

Akṣayānanda: And there's no need for me to go out. There's so many nice sannyāsīs. So many big preachers and so many buses. So if we just try it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Īśvara Candra prabhu has come from Mathurā. (break)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they love that. Of course, Bhagavad-gītā is the most well known, but people enjoy that Kṛṣṇa book. From the Kṛṣṇa book they get the clear idea who Kṛṣṇa is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was my... "Let them know at least what is Kṛṣṇa." That is selling nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very nicely. I would say that the lay public, that is to say the people who attend our temples but are not becoming the full-time devotees, they especially read Kṛṣṇa book and Gītā.

Prabhupāda: And that theologian, he says, "I want to support Kṛṣṇa." He said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. "It must be Kṛṣṇa's name; otherwise I'm not..."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Then he has become devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a big man, Harvey Cox, the top theologian in the country.

Prabhupāda: Our George Harrison, he also liked Kṛṣṇa book.

Hari-śauri: Yes. We sold so many Kṛṣṇa books on the strength of showing them that...

Prabhupāda: George Harrison.

Hari-śauri: ...Introduction from George Harrison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And I have acknowledged his contribution and blessed him as good boy. And because he served Kṛṣṇa, then later on he became inclined to give us that house.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes we find a dilemma in preaching, in the sense that if we preach very vigorously we invoke the attention of the authorities. That is to say, if we were to preach a little less vigorously, there might be less objection, but then again there would be the less benefit because we would not be preaching as vigorously. It's very hard to know sometimes just how forcefully to preach.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not to satisfy the authorities. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to satisfy his family members, but Kṛṣṇa did not like that. Then He preached him Bhagavad-gītā, and then Arjuna agreed, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So it is the duty of the devotee to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not the public.

Brahmānanda: In our Back to Godhead magazine now the tendency is that they're not mentioning Kṛṣṇa's name so much. They're not putting the picture of Kṛṣṇa. They're not putting the pictures of the devotees. They're stressing on like simple, natural life in order to please the public.

Prabhupāda: No. Why this is going on?

Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no gṛhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it's...

Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking, within the temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the gṛhastha living together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be...

Prabhupāda: Adjoining buildings... But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that.

Prabhupāda: But that is temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or... No, they are earning their own way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it's the same as paying a salary.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So consult him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I think this is the time to do that. This is a side effect of taking the medicine. Just giving up taking medicine may solve one problem, but it's not going to solve the main problem. This is to say that we're putting some hope on this kavirāja from Calcutta. If eventually he is shown that his medicine didn't work, then I won't..., I wouldn't say anything. But I'm going on the argument that his medicine is doing some good. So I don't want to see it stopped. So you have no objection if we consult the other kavirāja, do you?

Prabhupāda: What can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I think this is the purpose for which he was chosen, at such a time like this that he should be consulted. I'll tell Bhakti-caru to consult him. (break)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Kavirāja assistant: (Hindi)

Śatadhanya: Finished with urine, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru, Prabhupāda is talking to you.