That is the proof (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"That is a scientific proof" |"That is the practical proof" |"That is the tangible proof" |"That is, there is proof" |"that is proof" |"that is the proof" |"this is also another proof" |"this is proof" |"this is the genuine proof" |"this is the proof"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.

Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.

Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Baddha we have got, and still we are thinking...

Prabhupāda: Baddha-jīva, every moment he is under the strict laws of nature. Generally they think that.... They speak also. "I think." Do they not say? "I think," as if he is independently thinking. What you can think? Hm? Acyutānanda Mahārāja, why do they say, "I think," "In my opinion"? What is the value of your opinion?

Harikeśa: Well, I have a certain amount of experience, and with my intelligence and my mind and my scientific method, I can put all that together and come out with some practical solution which I can work on.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Harikeśa: Well, relatively speaking, it's better to do...

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Because you are so rascal, you do not know that "I cannot move even an inch and I am making plan." That is the proof that you are a rascal.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Tena vinā tṛṇam api na calati. That is the way.

Harikeśa: But why are people in the capital...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we call them all rascals. That is our confirmation of our statement. Mūḍhas, you all rascals, without any exception. Hm? The other day the high-court judge, he's supposed to be the most intelligent person within this state, high-court judge, and he was talking so many nonsense.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Because he thinks he knows, he does not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: One who thinks he knows...

Prabhupāda: Manyamāna, manyamāna. He is thinking he is very intelligent.

Acyutānanda: While he was saying that, I was thinking, "I hope I never have him for a judge."

Prabhupāda: You'll find everywhere such.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: "But because I am pāmara, I am finding out this fault." But you have now completed the sentence. "You know lot of things, but because you are pāmara, therefore this thing has come prominent."

Indian man: That is the proviso.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the proof that you are a pāmara.

Indian man: In my own way, if they challenge us and they are convincing, because to the audience it has to be said. One gosvāmī, when I said, "Well, this is a movement which I very much like, and like also to join," then he said that—because I am conducting Gītā Bhavan(?) founded by him—he said, "No, no, no, no. We as a matter of fact champion that cause. But afterwards, when we realized that it is not sampradayic, we have given it up. Therefore..." Then his conduct.... The next day itself, he was not liking me. I have been doing this propaganda, this Gītā pravacanam, for the past four years in the organization founded by him. But the very next day, that gosvāmī, Puruṣottama Gosvāmī of Vṛndāvana...

Yaśodānandana: The envious one.

Prabhupāda: He has got a camp here?

Yaśodānandana: No, in Madras.

Indian man: When he was here it happened. And that devotee's grace.... Then I said, "What is the reason why you say?" "No, no. After all, we are qualified. Those mlecchas..."

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Because you are criminal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. If your father's good...

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, it is criminal. That is... You say that there are so many persons in the state. Not all of them are suffering in the prisonhouse. Only the criminals. So that is the proof that you are a criminal.

Hṛdayānanda: God could have... God could have created me in such a way that I would never have fallen down.

Prabhupāda: He has created, but He has given you independence.

Jagadīśa: God wants us to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kāśirāma: Why has He given us that independence if in that independence we...?

Prabhupāda: Then you are not living being. You are dull stone. God does not want that you remain a stone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Free will" means living being.

Hari-śauri: But if he gave us the material world to enjoy, then why do we have to suffer here?

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) Then you come to Gītā's instruction, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). And Nārada Muni also says that one must be qualified, not the birth. Just like this Mullik, and we had the same gotra, but the marriage cannot take place within the same family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Within the gotra. In the same gotra.

Prabhupāda: The same title, De, and same gotra; therefore it is the same family. That is the proof. So in the same family there cannot be any marriage. Sa-gotra. Sa-gotra-vivāha-niṣedha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So no member of your family could have married someone in the Mullik family.

Prabhupāda: No. There is another Mullik family. They are different from our family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not De's.

Prabhupāda: They are not De's. They are Sil's.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cee?

Prabhupāda: Sil. Their title is Sil.

Bhavānanda: Sil. Sil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Sil.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are always hankering after happiness. So we do not like suffering. So if there is no suffering, that is perfect system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you point out any time in history when there existed such a perfect system?

Prabhupāda: It is always existing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even now?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise why you are sticking to this? This is the proof. You are all young men, you have given up everything. Why you are sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Revatinandana: In the West so many young men are joining different groups?

Prabhupāda: They may be rascals. Therefore, therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (break) ...told me it is full. But people coming and going, it looks very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a house when it has no occupants, it's not so nice as when there are people moving about.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Canakya Paṇḍita says, putra-hīnaṁ gṛhaṁ śūnyam: "In a home where there is no children, sons and daughters, it is zero."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like a body without a soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitya-guru... (Bengali) (break) You are not going to China?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we not so impressed by roṭī here, but it is really a...

Prabhupāda: Very nice, a good news. You are eating nicely. That gives me pleasure.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And he may be great rogue, that "Simply dress yourself nicely; you become gentleman."

Devotee (1): Usually materially opulent people are puffed up and mean. They're not...

Prabhupāda: Gentleman means that if you go to a gentleman's store, "Beware of the dog. Beware of the revolver." This is your culture. And when you go to the airport everyone is searched out, pocket. So who is gentleman? Is that gentleman? There is no gentleman in the world. All rogues and thieves, cheaters, bluffers. Now we are creating gentlemen. Otherwise there is no gentlemen. Here is the proof. If we are gentleman, why we are being checked in the airport? Hm? This is the proof. There is no gentlemen.

Akṣayānanda: Because they're not expecting any gentlemen.

Prabhupāda: That means there is no.... In other words, there is no gentlemen.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. They're only expecting rogues.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes.... In most cases they do not check me. "This is gentleman." And there is all..., no gentlemen. And this is the test, how to test a gentleman, that one who is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa.... Or one who is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is gentleman.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Bharadvāja: Yesterday you gave an example of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream, walking on the beach. What is the full...? Because we're going to try to make an exhibit of it. So what is the full analogy? Is he actually going to another place by his mind, he's actually transported?

Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body. (break)

Pradyumna: ...when someone is sleeping and dreaming, that the seer has left the gross body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bharadvāja: How does the.... Life symptoms, how are the life symptoms maintained in the body?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bharadvāja: The life symptoms are maintained in the body still?

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Christianity's already dead. We are purchasing the churches.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means dead.

Hari-śauri: And their priests are coming to join us as well.

Prabhupāda: See, this temple, this was closed. There was no men. And now balcony. In the same place, the same countrymen. That is the proof. This building. These boys and girls and men, they are not imported from India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are formerly Christians and Jews.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: These demons that are trying to challenge us, they cannot stop our movement for ten thousand years.

Prabhupāda: What is their challenge? They have no, nothing to challenge. Unless they are violent. That much they can do, like demons.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That, you think that they will do that eventually?

Prabhupāda: No, now people are civilized. It is.... But they want to do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are thinking. So...

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is saved for you. Go and take it.

Mahendra: They wear the snakes and eat the rats.

Prabhupāda: Snake will die of starvation. It is better. You go and eat.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Egypt, they have been able to dig underneath the ground and find the remains of ancient cities. So this is proof of the ancient civilization of Egypt. But they have not found ancient ruins of the cities of Dvārakā or Hastināpura. They do not have such...

Rādhāvallabha: There are ruins in Dvārakā.

Rāmeśvara: So they do not accept that the ancient civilization of India is old, very old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read one anthropology book, and it said that about 3,500 years ago in India people were only living in all the caves, and they were simply using stones and things like that, very primitive tools. No knowledge at all.

Mahendra: But they cannot explain how it was that these people evolved, these cavemen evolved such a language as Sanskrit, which not even the greatest scholar today can even begin to comprehend. It is a very great language.

Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cut over?

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we can walk over this way? There's no water.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You are.... When the child's body, that body, is no more existing, you are in a different body.

Jay Warner: The difficulty for me reaches the moment, retroactively, before the moment of birth, or past the moment of death. How can one come to have faith that there is life after one leaves his body?

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. A child may not understand that there is, after his childhood body, there is another body, boyhood body or youthful body. He may not understand. But that is the fact. If the child says, "There is no more body. This is the final body," that is not the fact. He is going to get another body which is boy's body, young man's body, old man's body. Similarly, you may believe or not believe, you are going to get another body. The proof is that you have no more the child's body; you have got a different body. The common sense reasoning.

Jay Warner: That is true. But the difficulty for me is that although my spirit wants to believe in transmigration, the scientific upbringing that was inculcated in me from a child has a hard time...

Prabhupāda: What is that scientific?

Jay Warner: Through empirical evidence, through evidence...

Prabhupāda: This is evidence. I ask you to show me your childhood body. Where it is? Can you show? That is finished. So if the childhood body finished, you get another body, boyhood body. Similarly, the conclusion should be that after this body—I am old man; it will be finished—then I'll get another body.

Jay Warner: That makes sense.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: It's happening quite often in South America now.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's going on everywhere. There was a, John Paul Getty's nephew in Italy, he was taken by kidnappers, and they petitioned Getty, "Give us so many millions of dollars, otherwise we'll kill your nephew." So he refused. So after a long, long time the nephew was returned somehow or other, and one of the times when they demanded a ransom, they chopped off his right ear and put it in an envelope and sent it through the post: "This is proof that we have your nephew, now give us money." And still he refused. And then eventually the boy was returned minus his ear.

Hṛdayānanda: And you were saying, Prabhupāda, that even when they have so much money they want more. This man is one of the richest men in the world, and for his own family member he would not pay some money to save him.

Prabhupāda: Who was that man?

Hari-śauri: Getty. He just died.

Hṛdayānanda: Just a few days ago he died.

Rādhāvallabha: In England. One of the richest men in the world.

Hṛdayānanda: Two of the richest Americans have just died.

Rādhāvallabha: Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was considered the richest man in the country, and they found him dying in a hotel room of malnutrition.

Hṛdayānanda: He had become so afraid of death that he would wear a mask over his face to avoid germs, and he would be changing his clothes constantly, and he was living terrified of dying and losing his money. So in this way, in his last several years he became mad, just with the fear that he was going to die. (break)

Prabhupāda: What is your next publication?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now the point is that you are going to get another body. That's a fact.

Richard: How do you know that?

Prabhupāda: Now what kind of...? This is a fact, just like you have got already another body. Where is that child's body, where is that boy's body? That is finished. This is the proof.

Richard: But I'm still alive.

Prabhupāda: Alive, you are always alive.

Richard: Physically alive.

Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.

Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.

Richard: I think it requires more than education; it requires faith.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: The first question Prabhupāda asked is what is the difference between a dead man and a living man. The body is the same, but something is missing in the dead man, in the dead body. So that is the proof that the body is not living at any time, but there is a living energy, and when that living energy is inside the body, it makes the body seem alive, and if that living energy is taken out of the body, then the body is seen as it really is, a lump of matter. The body is never alive; it is the presence of the soul within the body that animates the body.

Richard: Right, animate, that's the etymology of animation, anima, soul.

Rāmeśvara: So your body...

Richard: I agree with all that.

Rāmeśvara: And that living energy is eternal, and when this body becomes an old man's body, or rather when you get an old man's body, the body you have now will be finished, but you will still be alive because you are that eternal living energy.

Richard: Okay, and what I am saying is that I have, there has never been any empirical proof of that.

Rāmeśvara: But I have already explained that these senses are not the perfect instruments for experiencing reality. Just like sometimes there may be a cloud, and therefore you cannot see the sun with your senses, but that does not mean the sun is not there. It simply means your senses are not powerful enough to see. The senses are imperfect instruments for perceiving reality. The sun is always there, but sometimes you can see it and sometimes you can't.

Prabhupāda: Just like night, this is night, you don't see the sun. That does not mean there is no sun.

Rāmeśvara: Don't rely on empirical sense perception.

Richard: Okay, right, you're introducing here though, the essence of all religion, and that is faith. Faith...

Prabhupāda: It's not faith, it is fact. If I say that there is sun and you cannot see, if you deny, "No I don't see. There is no sun," so which is fact?

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: And how intelligent they are. I give you my child for your protection, and you cut his throat. How intelligent you are. That is the proof. Something is given for protection, and they're cutting the throat. This is their intelligence. (break)

Indian man: ...the article in Back to Godhead there was a question raised, that "What is purpose of life?" and it was stated that the purpose of life is to realize God. Could you kindly explain a little more on that?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining last night. Human life is meant for understanding what is the goal of life. The goal of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. If they do not go back to home, back to Godhead, then remain here, become a tree. Stand, for five thousand years. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two millions you have to pass through. And each species, some thousands of years. And such two million. So, how many years? Hmm? Two millions of varieties of vegetables. And each item, if you pass, say hundred years. Then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred million.

Prabhupāda: Two hundred millions years only for passing through the vegetables. Then you become insects. That is also 1,100,000. In this way you'll get chance again to become a human being. These rascals are wasting, four-wheel dog. (laughter) Dogs are four-legged, and we are four-wheeled. That's all. (laughter)

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (4): I was thinking earlier how a farmer can put the seed in the ground, but he cannot actually make the seed grow if it is not the will of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The situation is not favorable. That is the proof that everything is a living entity. If you put the seed... The seed is not the tree, but when you put the seed on the ground, if the situation is favorable, the particular living entity who has to take the form of that tree, he comes, and then it grows. That is the proof. Just like sex. It is not the secretion of the man and the woman. It creates a situation so that the soul may come and live there, and then there is pregnancy. It is not the matter. This is the proof.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Does that mean to some extent that the soul is dependent on a material condition?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi (BG 13.22). Find out this verse, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi.

Hari-śauri: Just like when the body is no good, the soul has to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the proof there is soul.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lāvaṇyam, now you know very well in the Western country. Beauty increases by having long hair. (laughter) I was just trying to recite this verse only, and now see how it is current. Who expected that this foretelling is there in the Bhāgavatam? To increase beauty, have long hair. Is it not? Now just see. How five thousand years this thing was foretold? That is the proof. There was no hippie movement then. (laughs) But Vyāsadeva foretold that in the Kali-yuga if one keeps long hair he will think himself as very beautiful. There are so many things. Ultimately, with the advancement of Kali-yuga you'll have no food. Food means there will be no food grains, there will be no milk, there will be no sugar, like that. No fruits. If you get fruits, there will be no pulp, it is simply seeds. These things are there. You get a mango, but a mango means simply the big seed, that's all. So how can you check it? If nature's way, things are going to happen like that, what the scientists will do? If there is no rice, no wheat, will the scientists...? They can say replace with a pill, but they cannot produce wheat or rice or dahl or milk, sugar. That is not possible.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? They have fashioned a way for the spacemen that they can drink their own urine and eat their own stool.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the most scientific improvement. (laughter) Yes. That they can do. (laughter) By scientific improvement, they can drink their own urine, very tasty. That is possible.

Devotee (1): With all these disqualifications, how can the general mass of people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So will anyone be able to understand this verse? Hmm? Everything is stated there, what is Caitanya. Will everyone be able to understand it? That is the proof that he's not graduate. If he is graduate, then he should understand. Therefore it is postgraduate.

Kulādri: One must understand Bhagavad-gītā before Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is stated there yad advaitaṁ brahma upaniṣadi. That means he must understand the Upaniṣads. He must understand what is Brahman. So without understanding this, how he can understand Caitanya-caritāmṛta? It will be explained there, but the fact is this. What is that? Is there any explanation?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, there's no purport to this verse.

Prabhupāda: So further on there is explanation. Find out that.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? How does one know when he has the understanding of the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: What does he say? Answer him.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What did you say?

Devotee (2): How does one know when he has the understanding of Bhagavad-gītā?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of us in perplexed position. But who is guru? Guru means Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. And all others are bogus. If one does not say on the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then he's not guru. He's a bogus. In that way everyone can become guru. I have got some opinion, I can say. But unless.... Just like a lawyer is he who follows the standard law. If a lawyer says that "I have manufactured my own laws," so who will hear him? And what will be the use of becoming lawyer? No. You have to follow the standard law. Then you are a lawyer. And a big lawyer means who knows the standard laws very well. Similarly, guru is Kṛṣṇa and guru is necessary. But one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then he will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Kṛṣṇa is not present. But Kṛṣṇa is not present, how you can say? Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā. How you can say that.... Kṛṣṇa, absolute, means the Supreme Lord is not different from His words also. The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: God is great. That's all. God is great. Kṛṣṇa proved that He's great. Therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is great." Allah akbar, Muslims say. God is great. It is translated, "God is great." And Hindu says, paraṁ brahma. So God is great. So Kṛṣṇa proved that He is all-great. Therefore He is God. Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He proved it that He is the great. Therefore He's God. If you accept God is great, and if you find somebody, he is great in everything, then he's God. How can I deny it? At least, you can see Kṛṣṇa great by His Bhagavad-gītā. It is still going on. Five thousand years passed, still Bhagavad-gītā is accepted as the greatest book of knowledge all over the world. Even among the Christians, among the Muslims, those who are really learned, they take it, "Yes." That is greatness of Kṛṣṇa, the knowledge. Who can give such knowledge? That is the proof that He is God. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya viryasya yasasaḥ... Jñāna, knowledge. Where is such knowledge throughout the whole world? Everything, every line is sublime knowledge. If one studies scrutinizingly Bhagavad-gītā, you find Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question nineteen. "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the use of this scientist? That "Take any amount. Here is my beloved son. My scientist, physician, you take any amount. Just give life to my son." Is it able? These are practical. False, bogus bluffing—that is another thing.

Rādhāvallabha: They get angry if we tell them that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, means they are rascal. When there is argument between you and me, if one becomes angry, that means he's a rascal. That is the proof. He cannot reply anymore. He has become angry. That is his defeat. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. Mūrkha, a rascal is given good instruction, he'll be angry. So that is the proof that he's rascal. That is the proof. The example is given, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he'll get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that here is a snake. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison. One day he'll: "Ohnn!" He'll ready to bite you. You have given milk, it has increased poison, and it will show his fangs, hood. That is asura. So therefore they become snakes, scorpion, so low-grade life. Snake life is so degraded that at once you see a snake, immediately every one of us will be ready to kill it. Everyone, without any mercy. Nobody will say, "No, no, let this go." So he is put into that life that he cannot come in the light. As soon as he comes in the vision of somebody, everyone is ready to kill. And nobody is sorry. Nobody is sorry. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). Even one is saintly person, he'll be satisfied if a snake is killed. Saintly person doesn't want that anyone should be killed, but if a snake is killed, he's happy: "Oh, you have done right." Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "My father is killed; nobody is unhappy. (laughter) Nobody is unhappy. But he was just like a snake and scorpion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can you say, though, that the soul has a complex form?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.

Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this connection, this variegatedness in connection with life, can you take it as some sort of complex structures?

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just add consciousness. When consciousness is not developed, the personality is not developed. Just like tree you cut, there is no personality, it does not protest, "Why you are cutting?" It does not scream. But a man or animal, when you attempt to injure, it screams, it protests. That means consciousness is developed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can we prove that the personality...

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because if God sees that the rascal is trying for so many years, "All right, give him a chance." (laughter) That is His mercifulness. So what they call chance theory, that is grace of God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So God is all-merciful.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the proof.

Sadāpūta: Actually, this couldn't come about by just chance, because the number of possibilities...

Prabhupāda: There is, but he takes it as chance. All the possibilities taken together he is given by God. That he does not know. He takes it as chance. But there is no question of chance. It is the gift of God.

Sadāpūta: Next example, this is another example taken from music. This example is Mozart. Mozart was a musician. He composed symphonies. And in that quote which-I'll just summarize it instead of reading it—he explains how it was that he created these symphonies. He explained that actually what happened was that ideas just came into his mind, melodic themes and so on, and he says "Whence do they come I do not know, and I have nothing to do with it." And actually what would happen was that an entire symphony would just blossom into his mind, and he wouldn't even know where it was coming from. So...

Prabhupāda: Unknown.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unknown source.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: Well, it's documented that he was kind of deranged, of a deranged mind. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the proof.

Dr. Sukla: Yes, because he was, when he was thirteen or seventeen he was walking, he was going from one village to another village through the paddy fields, and the clouds were very thick and thunder and lightning, and he writes that he saw Kali, and I have a friend in England, Carl Wilson, who has done some work on Ramakrishna, he believes that at that very moment...

Prabhupāda: These are miracles, that's all. It has no value. People are after miracles. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ, one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kali he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God. With that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, no, how it is growing? When it was put into the bottle, why it did not grow? It remained as it is.

Rāmeśvara: They say because they severed its connection with the mother.

Prabhupāda: That means the baby has grown from the mother. So mother is life. That is the proof. Otherwise how the baby has grown? You cannot say that life can be grown out of matter.

Rāmeśvara: Life from life.

Prabhupāda: As soon as they say that "It has grown from the mother," the mother is life.

Rāmeśvara: Life from life.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Rāmeśvara: No one thinks like that.

Prabhupāda: They are all rascals, therefore I say. They have no common sense, all rascals, dull. By eating meat they are... They may be like tigers or dogs, but they are not human beings. They may have strength of a tiger or barking capacity like a dog, but they are not human being. Useless. They cannot be used for anything human benefit, useless. We should take them like that, that "You may be a tiger, you may be a lion, you may be a dog, but you are not a human being. We do not accept you." A tiger is very powerful than ordinary human being, but that does not mean that a tiger is useful than the human being. That is not the way. (break) ...I ask, natural answer you gave, "Because it is disconnected with the mother." That is natural answer. Then how you can say the life has come from matter? Immediately you are captured. Can you say like that, that life has come without life? And they are making us believe like that.

Rāmeśvara: The body is matter.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: No faith! It is fact!

Mike Robinson: So you would say that science can prove that God exists?

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is proof. Here is the proof, that there is children. Children are children; there is mother; so there must be father. This is proof. It doesn't require much proof.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you tell me what you believe to be the meaning of life, why do we exist in the first place?

Prabhupāda: Meaning of life means to enjoy, but we are in a different platform of life. Therefore we are suffering instead of enjoying. But if you come to the real platform, then you enjoy. Because here we see struggle for existence, everyone is struggling, but what is the aim? For enjoyment of life. Therefore life means enjoyment. But at the present moment our life is not enjoyment.

Mike Robinson: At the present moment, our life is not...?

Prabhupāda: Our life is not enjoyment-suffering.

Mike Robinson: Suffering, hmm.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do you admit or not?

Mike Robinson: You are saying at the present moment we are all suffering?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mike Robinson: Yes, I would agree with that.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But why the Indians, they are not like the Americans? You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbhamelā with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. Why they take? Indian is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness naturally? Still they'll go, when there is Kumbhamelā, so many saintly persons are coming. They will come by lakhs. Have you seen it? You have seen Kumbhamelā? You have seen? That is the proof. Not only Kumbhamelā. In Vṛndāvana, just like in our temple, recently it was jam-packed. Why they are coming to Vṛndāvana? Mostly they are coming from villages. Especially during this time at least twenty thousand, fifty thousand men are coming, daily. Still. We held Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras. As soon as it is advertised, you'll find fifteen thousand, twenty thousand men come. And if you hold for weeks, for weeks they will come. You have seen? They are not like Americans, rich. They are all poverty-stricken. To the general eyes they are poverty-stricken. Kumbhamelā you'll see, Hardwar, in Vṛndāvana. Or even in big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, such festivals are held, people will come by thousands. It is training, culture. And this boy is taking three times bath, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is training and culture. And if he is kept in this culture, in future he'll be great saintly person. Then he'll do everything automatically. He will deliver others. It is training.

Hari-śauri: They got one of those movie projectors—the ones in the small suitcase? With all the films. We were just testing it. They were just testing it downstairs.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We were planning to have..., to show one movie tonight for the guests, that new movie that is made about New Vrindaban. When our other guests arrive we will show it at about eight o'clock. Would you like also to see it again, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not convenient, foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This dehāntara-prāptiḥ, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So why they do not believe dehāntara-prāptiḥ? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof, Kṛṣṇa is giving you this proof. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So if we accept authority of Kṛṣṇa and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful. And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). Simply our false ahaṅkāra, egotism: "Ah, I don't care." You may do that, but prakṛti will take action. Because you are under the control of the nature's law. Uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Uru means very hard, tight. Or uru means the thigh. And dāmni (means) by ropes, baddha. We cannot transgress the laws of nature. If we willfully transgress, we can do that, but we will have to suffer. If you touch fire, it will burn. It will not excuse that "Here is a child, he did not know." No excuse. Either a child or elderly, you have touched fire, then you must be burned. This is nature's law. Very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Why you have got different bodies? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. As we have associated with the modes of material nature, we have got different types of bodies. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of forms? The forms are different, but within the form, the soul is one.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That Chicago Address was the worst. He is defying, "Why you give credit to God?" This is the... We have seen that Chicago Address. Now they are eliminating. Most blasphemous. One Christian priest, he was surprised, "What kind of nonsense these Indians are..." He asked him, "How you are speaking in this way, 'Why you are giving credit to God?' " He said like that, "You are working, why you are giving credit to God?" This is Vivekananda's realization. And he created God, a illiterate priest, he become God. Because he said, "I am God." That is the proof.

Jayapatākā: Because he said?

Prabhupāda: "I am God. I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." So he took it. This is evidence. Because Kṛṣṇa says "I am the Supreme." So he said, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." This is the evidence. If Kṛṣṇa can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture.

Jayapatākā: At one town, Beturhari, that, it is called Nakashiparathana. That's about thirty miles north of Māyāpur. One day in advance they advertised that we were coming and we were having a public showing of the cinema and Nitāi-Gaura ārati. And they had one maidan called Library Maidan. There was one, like, one stage there.

Prabhupāda: It is in West Bengal?

Jayapatākā: West Bengal. That's in Nadia district. Just before Pulasi, south of Pulasi. And when we came there and I saw the police in the afternoon, we told them we were going to have a function. So they said that they would send a few policemen. They said that "We will send some policemen for keeping the order." But that night so many people came the space could only hold four thousand. But another two, three thousand people came, and they were turned away because of insufficient space. So they were standing on the wall and on the rooftops all around, and all you could see were people's heads, just like an ocean. The policemen, after it was over... When I chanted, I chanted, "Everyone please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And I chanted the full mantra three times. They chanted so loud that even two, three blocks away people thought that the heavens were shouting. It was like a thunder...

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Here simply difficulties. In comparison to other countries, I have seen that it is simply difficulty. Frankly speaking. And to speak more frankly, why there is emergency? Emergency means bad government. Otherwise, there is no necessity of emergency. Emergency proves the government is not going nice. Is it not? Why emergency? If it is normally going on nicely then where is the question of emergency?

Krishna Modi: Emergency means there is something unnormal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is normal there is no question of emergency. That is the proof. Another thing, personally, from the Vedic point of view, I don't think India is ready to take actually democracy. Mass of people, they do not care for politics. You have better experience. There, in other countries, even a small man, he has got political sense.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually required. Prahlāda did not protest. It is a great sin, if your father is being killed before you, if you do not protest even, "Why you are killing?" not to give protection. But even if you do not, then you are not worthy son. So in that way Prahlāda Mahārāja was accused that in his presence his father was being killed. He did not protest, neither he... Rather, he was ready with the garland: (laughter) "As soon as my father is killed, immediately garland the Lord." So that is not the fact. And he is... Later on, he requested that "My father was a great offender. So kindly give him protection." So he's not..., that son. He knows... He knew that this, "My father is being killed by the nails of my Lord. It is his great fortune." Why shall he protest? He's seeing that "My father is being released from this material existence." Why shall he protest? And still to confirm it, he requested the Lord that "This, my rascal father made so many offenses..." But for him he did not ask anything, but he's such a good son that for demon father he requested. So how much faithful son he was, this is the proof. Not that he was unfaithful to him. He knew it, that "Let my father's body be separated from his soul by the Lord. That is good for him." And still to confirm it he personally requested that "My father may be excused." "Why your father? Your father's father, his father, everyone, up to fourteen generations."

Jagadīśa: Paropakāra.

Prabhupāda: So to become devotee means to do the best service to the family. If there is one devotee in the family, all the forefathers, they are delivered. So anyway, don't be disappointed. Go on fighting and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be right. There is no cause of disappointment.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Then why not Kṛṣṇa?

Hari-śauri: Yes, exactly. Just like Allah means "the great one," so Kṛṣṇa means "the all-attractive one." It's the same God.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was proved, and still He is proved. Who is reading others' book all over the world? Therefore He is God. Where is that book so respected as Bhagavad-gītā? Who is printing so many books? Not even Bible. They respected Bible. Why the foreigners are reading Bhagavad-gītā? That is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is God. During the Christmas festival we sold our books greatest number in the history. How many copies Bible you have sold? That is the proof. Here is God. Otherwise why Christians should purchase Bhagavad-gītā during Christmas holiday? And because Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore you have come to fight. Who is going to fight with Jehovah? Who is going to fight with Jehovah movement?

Hari-śauri: Well, just like in the Middle East area, if they want to describe God or if they want to glorify God, they refer to Him as the Almighty One. And that word that means "Almighty One" is Allah. So if in India they want to glorify God by calling Him the All-attractive One, and that word is Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: This is a problem. Because they're such mūḍhas, as soon as there's a name and a form, they immediately associate with material nature, material personality.

Prabhupāda: Give me little tangerine.

Hari-śauri: Tangerine?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That is..., that rascal, Radhakrishnan says. Vyāsadeva does not say. Arjuna does not say.

Hari-śauri: But he was the president of India.

Prabhupāda: President was therefore kicked out. māyā has kicked out on his face. (laughter) Who cares for Radhakrishnan? In India, who cares for Radhakrishnan? They worship Kṛṣṇa. So therefore they have urinated on the face of Radhakrishnan. Say like that, (laughter) that "Indian people have passed urine on his head, and they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. This is Radhakrishnan." Tell him like that. "Who cares for Radhakrishnan?" Do you mean to say they have stopped worshiping Kṛṣṇa in so many millions of temples? That is the proof: they have passed urine on the face of Radhakrishnan. Is that all right?

Hari-śauri: (laughing) Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And I found an article in the Time magazine about another translator of Bhagavad-gītā, Christopher Isherwood.

Prabhupāda: He is rascal, another rascal.

Rāmeśvara: They have reported that he is a homosexual.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Now, who cares for all these nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: In regards to brainwashing, they claim that our life-style tends to take the devotee and isolate him from the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We hate to mix with you. No gentleman tries to mix with loafers. In England still, the rich quarter is different from the poor quarter. Is it not?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

Unless one is animal-killer, everyone welcomes God. This very word is used, vinā paśughnāt. Excepting these persons who are animal killers, everyone will welcome Kṛṣṇa. It is so nasty thing, animal-killing. So you require thoroughly to be washed. Then you'll understand. Actually it is brainwashing. Civilized man, in the presence of so many nice grains, fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk, so many things, and you are eating meat like the man in the jungle? Are you civilized? Does it mean that the fruit, flowers and grains is meant for animals? It is meant for human beings. You do not know how to utilize it. You are in the state of the animals. You kill animals and eat. Don't claim that you are civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then talk of civilization. Therefore Jesus Christ first of all requested you "Don't kill." That is also brainwash, cleanse your brain. But you could not take the brainwash. Your brain is congested with so much dirty things that you could not take the instruction of Jesus Christ, and you claim to be Christian. Be ashamed. Don't come forward. Be ashamed. You have no shame even. You are so—what is called?—fool that you do not know what is defective. What is that English proverb? "Fools rush in where angels dare not." You are such a fool that you are running in to obstruct Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is... Even the demigods, they aspire after it. You are such a fool. You are rushing in. So we take pity upon you, and therefore we are trying to expand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But be sane; don't talk insanity. (break) And here you see big, big scholars that "Yes, here is Indian statement for the whole..." There are many saintly persons. Who cares for your Bible? And Bhagavad-gītā all over the world... Even if you take Dr. Radhakrishnan, elected as authority, he has tried to comment on Bhagavad-gītā, not on your Bible. Has he done? Who cares for your Bible? He may speak favorably or unfavorably, that is Bhagavad-gītā. But he has not spoken a word upon the Bible. Who cares for you? Not only here, all over the world, who is going to take the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Bible? And we are selling millions of copies of Bhagavad-gītā. That is proof Kṛṣṇa is God. We can say that we have got at home. Here is God. What do you think?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: We're voluntarily. But one of their main arguments is that before someone joins the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement he has great affection for his father, his mother, his brothers, his relatives. And after he joins the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement he has nothing to do with them anymore, and sometimes he even calls them demon.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.

Rāmeśvara: So they say this is the proof that we have brainwashed them. Because it is natural to have affection for your family.

Prabhupāda: Before that, he was accepting a false father. And now they understood that "He is not my father. He's my enemy." Therefore he's going... According to Bhāgavata it is said, "One should not become father if he cannot save his son from the imminent danger of birth, death, old age and disease." So the so-called father, they are not father. So after enter into Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, one understands that "He's my false father." So if he gives up the relationship, that means he's successful.

Rāmeśvara: So, then they will say, "We do not want this movement in our country because it is breaking up the families."

Prabhupāda: You do not want? Who cares for you? We shall go on with our movement. Who cares for you?

Rāmeśvara: "You are ruining family life."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: We are simply ruining our families.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: We have given him knowledge.

Prabhupāda: It is not a prison house.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "You cannot deprogram a Christian because Christianity is real. Therefore this is the proof that Hare Kṛṣṇa is false."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: That there is no record of any Christian...

Hari-śauri: We were all Christians, and we changed.

Jagadīśa: There's a record of a Christian deprogrammed, Peter himself. Christ prophesied that "Before the cock crows you'll deny me three times," and he did. He was deprogrammed just by his association.

Rāmeśvara: That was Peter?

Jagadīśa: Yes. (train going again)

Hari-śauri: His own... One of his twelve apostles put him on the cross, Judas Iscariat. He was one of the original twelve. He betrayed Jesus for some money and put him on the cross, killed him. He killed him.

Prabhupāda: That's right. This is the history of your religion. You kill Jesus Christ; you deprive him.

Hari-śauri: There's still that point that when a person comes, he's coming voluntarily. We have no chance to deprive him of sleep or food, because he's living outside. He's not living inside.

Rāmeśvara: They say that when a man comes to join us, immediately we take away all his money and all his possessions, so in this way we are depriving him of his property.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Not yet. They just began. Now they are spending this month, January and February, in Germany. This will be very valuable for our case there, if the scholars begin appreciating us from a different angle. But meanwhile, book distribution is bigger than ever in Germany.

Prabhupāda: That is the proof we are gaining ground.

Hari-śauri: The two champion big-book distributors are both German boys.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They have outdistributed everyone, even in America.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Just see how small animal it is, and how freely it is going. Let them manufacture a small animal like this with chemicals. It has got all the symptoms of animal. It has got the desire. It has thinking, feeling, willing, then eating, sleeping, mating. Everything is there. And as such, the anatomic physiology is there, within such a full stop. Everything is there. If you check them going here, they'll protest. And wherefrom they are coming? Where they are going? Just see how small it is. You cannot see even with naked eyes, so small. But it has all life symptoms. And they say there is no soul.

Rāmeśvara: No, it is some wonderful chemical mixture that they have not discovered yet, very mysterious chemistry. It is all based on this idea of a study of genes and chromosomes, genetics. They have so many words for describing how it happens.

Prabhupāda: Jugglery, word jugglery.

Rāmeśvara: DNA, RNA.

Hari-śauri: But they still can't explain the power force that activates them. They still can't explain the actual source of power that activates those chemicals.

Prabhupāda: They cannot. It is not possible.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. God has to be created by public survey. Just see how degraded.

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Actually you wrote that, that the educational system simply turns man into a dog going from door to door, begging for some...

Prabhupāda: This is... Why the Indian professors are going outside?

Gargamuni: Brain-drain, they have called.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot get here suitable job.

Rāmeśvara: No salary.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Well, that's accepted, that it's very uncivilized in those times.

Prabhupāda: And the result was that Christ was killed first. Who advised not to kill, they were so civilized that "Kill him first." So this is the proof. Why he said, "Thou shall not kill"? That means the society was so ravaged that they're killing one another.

Rāmeśvara: It was their sport to see men fight each other until one of them was killed. Their wrestling was based on fighting until someone was killed.

Gargamuni: They would take Christians and put them in the arena.

Rāmeśvara: That was their sport, entertainment, just like wrestling in India, but in the Middle East in Roman times the wrestling was fought until somebody had to be killed. That was their entertainment. They wanted to see them die. Even today, actually, all the entertainment in America and the Western world is based on violence. They have bull fighting. They want to see the bull tortured and killed. And they have chicken fighting and they have...

Prabhupāda: Dog fighting.

Rāmeśvara: And even the most popular sport in America now is football. It is more popular than baseball, and it's based on men jumping on each other. While one team is carrying the ball, every... A very violent sport.

Hari-śauri: And boxing also. So many different sports.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, that... Apart from scripture, logic, argument come. Scripture we take. That is our business. But you answer on common ground. Where is the difference why there is dead man and alive? What is your answer? Set aside scripture.

Ādi-keśava: That, they say, is beyond our intelligence.

Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.

Pradyumna: Ah. They say... When they say brainwashing, they think they're losing their intelligence by our movement. But actually they have no intelligence to begin with.

Prabhupāda: No begin...

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, you say material; we say... We have full knowledge. We say material, but subtle material. But you have no knowledge; therefore you have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What proof is there?" they may argue.

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Now, if the real active principle has left, the brain has left, the mind has left—it is only a lump. You cannot understand. If you understand it, then replace it. If you cannot, then you have no brain. You have to prove that, that "You have no brain at all. Where is the question of brainwashing?"

Hari-śauri: But if we operate on a person's brain, actual brain substance, it affects his personality. So therefore the personality in the brain is the same.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you know, you give this man brain, mind, and again let him get up and work. I want this.

Ādi-keśava: Again they'll say that's still beyond their knowledge.

Prabhupāda: "Then you have no brain," say. My point is that you have no brain. As soon as you say "beyond my...," then that means you have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that means just that our brain is not as good as it could be. It doesn't mean we have no...

Prabhupāda: That means you have no brain.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Transmigration, how it can be shown? The mind, intelligence, and ego you cannot see. But you will have to accept there is mind.

Yadubara: We have not really worked out any details.

Prabhupāda: Details, you cannot show it. It is so fine. Just like here is the sky, but you cannot see it. The mind is finer than the sky. The air is sky. (claps) That is sky. Where is the proof? (claps) That you cannot see. Śabda, sound. Sound is the sign of presence of sky. But you cannot see it. But it is there. (claps) This is the proof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It can be suggested only.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Therefore śruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.

Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence—when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami said, certain ideas.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it's confirmed, anyway. Yeah, that's what that Rajneesh says. They asked him, "Why are you with so many women?" He said, "This is the proof, that I am able to be with all these women but not be disturbed." But that doesn't really answer why he's with them. Our point is: "Why are you with them? Never mind whether you're disturbed or... Why are you with them? What benefit are you getting? They are not God. So why are you spending so much time with them?"

Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone admits that this is luxurious, fifth floor of...

Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā. So this preparation for tourists... Tourists, Indian tourists, means going to some holy place. They have no other sightseeing, no program. All villagers, they are still... The pilgrimage in holy places, now no educated man goes. Very rarely. All these villagers by thousands... They... You see this Tirupati, Tirumala. All the contribution by the villagers. By their hard-earned money they keep something for going. You have seen Tirupati, Tirumal...? Standing for hours to contribute in a line. Hundreds of people. They'll come, contribute something. Then they'll shave their head, see the Deity, have some bath in the adjoining lake. Then they'll take prasādam. That is very big tank. Everywhere. In India, wherever some famous temple is there, there is a tank. Now the haircutting, that lakhs of rupees are sold to foreign countries is hair. Heaps. These managers, they are selling the hairs. Very big business.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we are preaching that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Our preaching is simple. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme." That's all. We repeat. We don't manufacture. What is the use of manufacturing? I am imperfect. Whatever I manufacture, that is imperfect. So better to repeat the words of the perfect. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said, "Every one of you become guru and deliver your surrounding persons, either you are in family or in neighborhood or in society or in nation, as much as you can." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). So whatever limited circle, you just become guru and deliver them. Deliver means deliver from the ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance, dehātma-buddhiḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we have to teach them that "You are not this body. You are pure soul. Your business is different." And that is enlightenment. That is the business of guru. So we can do that business. And how to do it? That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Kṛṣṇa has already said, you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, alteration. Then you become guru. Very simple thing. If I say that "My father said, 'This is a bell,' " I am correct because I have learned it from my father, authority. I may be fool, rascal. It doesn't matter. But because I have learned it from the authority and presenting it that "This is a bell," this is perfect. Similarly, I cannot become guru because I am imperfect. My senses are imperfect. I cannot see even what is beyond this wall, although I am very much proud of my eyes. I want to see. What you can see? Imperfect, all senses. But if some authority says that "Beyond this wall this is the..., like this," it is all right. So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighborhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will act. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We do not manufacture ideas. That has spoiled the whole world. Just like you said about Christ. That he never said "Supreme Lord." He said, "I am son of God. I have brought message of Him." Similarly, our position is that "We have got a message from Kṛṣṇa. Take it." So we have no difficulty. Anyone can say. If you study Bhagavad-gītā nicely, assimilate and repeat it, it will act. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We are teaching that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. You become a devotee. You worship Him and offer your obeisances." It doesn't require that you become very learned scholar. Anyone can do. A child can do. That's it. We are teaching. Where is the difficulty? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? Why you are making so big, big program without any effect? Take the simple thing, program, and preach everywhere. That is being done. We are preaching this philosophy all over the world, and they are accepting. You know that. In Europe, America, Australia, in everywhere, in all parts of the world they are preaching. Even the Africans, they are chanting name. So if I have manufactured some theory and with a limited circle I am satisfied, that is good? Or Kṛṣṇa's program, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's program, it is being accepted all over the world—that is good or this is good? Which one is good? So everyone is manufacturing some concoction, and he's satisfied with few followers. But we have got Kṛṣṇa's program, and it is being followed all over the world. So which one is good, with some limited circle or all over the world? That is the proof that we have enough (indistinct). (remainder of recording too faint to transcribe) (end)

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then you stop.

Upendra: They're working like anything, research.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That means they are rascals. Anyone says that "Our... Where is death repeat?"

Upendra: Then he's rascal.

Prabhupāda: That is rascal, mūḍha. That is the proof they are rascals. They cannot do something. Still, they are promising, "Yes, yes." This is rascal.

Śatadhanya: They do not accept that beyond death there is life.

Prabhupāda: Why not? Why not? If your childhood takes boyhood, why not next?

Śatadhanya: It's logical.

Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals. Animal. The animal even. The so-called scientists, they are no better than the animals. That's all. They cannot understand the very simple thing. Animals cannot know. Otherwise any sane man can understand. (break) As soon as he changes the cloth, it is... No, I can change this cloth. That does not mean... I am the consciousness. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni... They never try to understand this. What is their advance? You are supporting these rascals. That means you do not understand about the soul. Do they not?

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Progressing means eating, sleeping, nothing more progress. He eats by killing an animal in the jungle, and you are eating, killing an animal in the organized slaughterhouse. That's all. So what is the difference between you and him? You are committing sinful activities by hammering, the killing, but he does not do so. He's not so sinful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that "Man alone has progressed..."

Prabhupāda: He can be allowed to do so because he is not civilized. But you are civilized, and you are committing great sinful activities by maintaining slaughterhouse. You are such a rascal. And because you are godless, you do not know that you will suffer for these sinful activities. That is the proof of existence of soul.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that "This has happened by man's technology and not by the help of any God or knowledge obtained from any scripture. Advancement in medical science and social welfare services are helping more and more misfits..."

Prabhupāda: What social welfare?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...to survive to procreate more and more misfits as future citizens."

Prabhupāda: No, what social welfare you have done? You have opened so many hospitals, but does it mean you can give life?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, this is a real... Here's what he says. He says, "Advancement in medical science and social welfare..."

Prabhupāda: What is the advancement?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How do you like article?

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?

Guest (2): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like we should... Next time we have a conference here, it should be done in the proper hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got enough place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people were thinking that Vṛndāvana is not a good place for building that hall, but...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have no hall in that building. There's no... The place where they held the meeting last time is now going to become the restaurant.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gaura-govinda: Meat, fish, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, you mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that.

Gaura-govinda: Many also take all sorts of intoxication and they also go to the prostitute. Everything they do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they serve the Deity? Śrīla Prabhupāda, does Lord Jagannātha reside there any more?

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, that it was not in order this year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was proof, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That ratha-cakra broken.

Gaura-govinda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does Lord Jagannātha reside there any more?

Prabhupāda: No, He resides everywhere. Jagannātha says, yatra tiṣṭhati mad-bhaktas tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada. Things are deteriorating. That I am lamenting. There is no... For thousands of years sanctity—they are killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there anything we can do about it?

Prabhupāda: Unless the administration comes to us.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we pray to Lord Jagannātha so that... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "What you have brought?"

Śatadhanya: Bengali portals, big, very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Show him. Wow.

Śatadhanya: That one's a little soft, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Give him a good one.

Prabhupāda: Hm.