Prabhupāda: Tapasya means voluntarily restraining or accepting some suffering condition. That is not actually suffering condition. Just like a patient. A doctor says, "You cannot take it." So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering. Tapaḥ divyam. That suffering is for transcendental realization. That is good.
That is required (Conversations 1969 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"that is * required"
|"that is also required"
|"that is required"
|"this is * required"
|"this is also required"
|"this is required"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Simply you have to understand that there is nothing material, everything is spiritual. That is required. So long you do not understand that everything is spiritual only, that is our defect.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, then even sexuality is spiritual?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said in the Bhagavad-gītā: if you use sexuality for giving birth to nice child, not cats and dogs, that is spiritual. But people are using sexuality for other purposes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, śāstra-viruddho(?), according to religious ritualistic way, if one, when one uses sex life that is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: But when you go to the government state, they are equally important. They are distributing the finance everywhere. So similarly either you take material energy or spiritual energy or marginal energy, all energy of God's, Kṛṣṇa's, but they are acting differently. So, so far I am marginal energy, if I am under the control of the material energy, that is my misfortune. But if I am controlled by the spiritual energy, that is my fortune. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). They take shelter of the spiritual energy. They are mahātmā, and what is their symptom: bhajanty ananya manaso, simply engaged in devotional service. That, that is required.
Allen Ginsberg: I'm slowly developing all qualities except sanity. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Insanity for seeking Kṛṣṇa, that is required. Yes. Unless you become insane after Kṛṣṇa just like Lord Caitanya became... Yes. His worship is to become insane after Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: Is Kabir in the Vaiṣṇava tradition?
Guest (1): He is mystic.
Allen Ginsberg: So what tradition is he in, actually?
Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist on the whole. He is impersonalist, whole, and he has got some Vaiṣṇava thought. That's all, perverted thoughts. Perverted thoughts.
Prabhupāda: Some paper. (laughs) So inside-outside work must be done. Bahyābhyantaram śuciḥ. You know that verse?
- apavitraḥ pavitro vā
- sarvāvasthaṁ gato 'pi vā
- yaḥ smaret puṇḍerīkākṣam
- sa bahyābhyantaram śuciḥ
So we have to develop this center from outside work and inside work. Outside work means to draw sympathy of the people, to draw money for development. This is also required. We have got a very big scheme. It is not possible that by one man's earning we can do that. It is not possible. We require millions of dollars for developing. If we want to construct here temples, at least seven temples, nicely, so that requires huge amount. So outsiders' sympathy must be there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If possible, mangoes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. From the tree. We'll have them hung on the tree and pick.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got nice ideas. You can do very nicely. Yes. This is required, creative ideas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe... About Lord Caitanya's civil disobedience. That is with the Kazi? His civil disobedience?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the Kazi.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization. So if you want to maintain the peace and prosperity of the whole worldly social order, you must create a class of men very intelligent, a class of men very expert in administration, a class of men very expert in production, and a class of men to work. That is required. You cannot avoid it. That is the Vedic conception. Mukha-bāhūru-padebhyaḥ. They say, mukha... Mukha means the face. Bahu means the arm. Uru means this, this, or waist. And pada. So anywhere, either you take this state or that state—doesn't matter—unless there is a smooth, systematic establishment of these four orders of life, the state or the society will not go very smoothly.
Prabhupāda: Preaching work is for the guru. So Kṛṣṇa... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says it doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or vānaprastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness and preaches, then he is guru. That's all. So we have to become like that. It doesn't matter what we are, but whether I am preaching nicely. That is required. But still there is some regulative principles like sannyāsī and brahmacārī will be like this, gṛhastha will be like this. That is the external. But the main business is preaching. So you have got good opportunity, you have got good name, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is being appreciated. So live very cautiously and preach very cautiously and seriously, then in this one life you will become successful, go back to home, back to Godhead. One life. You haven't got to wait for another life. If this life we work sincerely, then our business is finished. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9).
Prabhupāda: And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front.
Prabhupāda: Why not this broomstick is sufficient? If in India machine is not available, you cannot be clean? Keep everything cleansed-utensils, plates, teeth, hands, feet. Use sufficient water. There will be no (indistinct). Dirty things should be removed, and cleansed inside and outside. Inside cleansed: simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is inside clean. And outside, that is also required. You cannot neglect, because outside unclean means inside also you'll see unclean. If you keep both sides clean, then you will be healthy inside and outside. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. Abhadrāṇi, all inauspicious things, that will be cleaned. They should be washed. To become sacred thread means he must be śuci. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ śaucam, śaucam. One must be very clean. That is brahminism. Not simply having a sacred thread: "Prabhupāda, give me sacred thread, sacred thread, sacred thread," everybody. You have got sacred thread, that is certificate, but what is your śaucam? Cleanliness.
Prabhupāda: Huh? (break) That is required. (laughter)
Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (5): The spiritual master, his duty is to take all of his disciples back to home, back to Godhead, and I've heard it said that he doesn't leave until he has taken all his disciples back. What is the position of Lord Jesus when so many people are following but not doing, not in a position to go back to home, back to Godhead? Is he responsible for all of these people, who are attempting to serve him?
Prabhupāda: That is nice question. What is that? Repeat it again.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest: Yes. To God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is required.
Guest: Huh?
Prabhupāda: That is required. Just like...
Guest: Yes. Attachment to... There is a Tamil, Kurul. You have heard of the name Kurul? Tamil (indistinct), makes this point very clear.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: If you wish to live without detachment, attach yourself to God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, he has got full individuality, but he sacrifices individuality for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So he voluntarily surrenders. Not that he has lost his individuality. He keeps his individuality fully. But because Kṛṣṇa desires that he should surrender, he never minds. He's individual. Just like Arjuna, in the beginning he was declining to fight on account of his individuality. But when he accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master, he became śiṣya. Then whatever He ordered, "Yes." That doesn't mean he lost his individuality. He voluntarily accepted, "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do it." Just as all my disciples, they have not lost their individuality, but they have surrendered their individuality. That is required. Just like if a man does not use sex, does that mean he has become impotent? If he likes he can have, thousand times sex life, but he has voluntarily avoided it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).
Prabhupāda: No India, of India, don't talk of India. Talk of the philosophy. If there is no devotion, Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything, either in India or in your country. It is not... Kṛṣṇa's not obliged to accept anything costly because it is very tasteful. Kṛṣṇa has many tasteful dishes in Vaikuṇṭha. He's not hankering after your food. He accepts your devotion. That out of... Bhaktyā, tad aham aśnāmi. Bhaktyā upahṛtam, real thing is devotion. Not the food. Kṛṣṇa does not accept any food of this material world. But He accepts only the devotion. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), tad aham aśnāmi bhaktyā upahṛtam. "Because it has been offered to Me with devotional love," that is required.
Prabhupāda: And if you have got any doubts, any questions, you can inquire. That is required.
Yadubara: I have been asking questions of devotees. It's hard for me to comprehend some of the things in the scriptures. I just don't understand.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from scripture, from your personal understanding you can place questions. People, generally, they have no idea of God. We are placing the factual God. That is very difficult to understand. Generally they think it is an idea, fiction. But we don't think like that. We have got clear conception of God. That is the difference between our Society and all any other religious groups. They have no clear idea of God. They simply say that there is God, God is great, but no clearer.
Prabhupāda: Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). Zero, all everything zero, make it zero. Śūnyam. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna-karma means there is some aspiration of profit. Karmīs, they are trying to be elevated in the higher planetary system. And jñānīs, they are wanting to become one with the Supreme. So that is also demand. That means there is some desire. It is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). But one has to become anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam—any desire, make it zero. Then what to do, I shall become dull and dumb? No. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167), you have to work according..., favorably, as Kṛṣṇa desires. That's it. That is wanted, that is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu, that is wanted. You have to simply abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, that's all. That is required.
Prabhupāda: So that anyone questions, you can answer. That is required, preaching. Just like this girl, "Why you are recommending your Bhagavad-gītā?" Answer must be there: "Because this is. "They are all rascals. They are not speaking Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Śyāmasundara: She understood it also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have no right. Suppose I have written one book. So I have got some intention. So why should you interpret my intention with your intention? What right you have got? You have no right. If you want to speak something of yours, then you write another book. Why you are taking advantage of my book and misleading others? I want to speak to the public something, I have expressed my opinion in that way. But because it is popular, you are taking advantage of my book and expressing your views. How much cheating, how much cheater you are! Therefore he is suffering, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has lost his brain. We went to see him, Dr. Radhakrishnan, when I was in Madras. You went?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question I believe and don't believe, it is a fact. God is there—you believe or not believe—but God must be there. Your believing, not believing, it doesn't matter. If I don't believe there is no president, it does not mean there will be no president. There must be president. I do not know who is president. (indistinct) So people are in misconception that there is no God, God is dead, I am God, you are God, God is not person, so many God theories. But we have no theory, we have got a positive presentation, "Here is God." With that conviction we have to push on. So you must be prepared in that way. There will be so many questions, so many opposing elements. You have to face them by your arguments, by your knowledge. This is required. At least we must have faith in that way. We have to push on. This is the fact.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If you keep yourself with the rascals, then you'll think like rascals. And if you keep yourself with sane men, then you'll think like sane men. Association. That is required. That is the only way.
Devotee: And then, and then for detachment, it's just constant austeri...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: For detachment, it's just austerities?
Prabhupāda: Detachment, when you'll understand that this is good, this is bad, naturally you'll have detachment for the bad. Unless you know this is good, this is bad, how there can be detachment? When you are offered two kinds of foodstuff, and if you know: "This is good, this is bad," then naturally you have detachment for the bad and pick up the good. First of all you have to know what is good and bad. Then, when you are convinced, naturally you know: "Oh, this should not be taken."
Prabhupāda: No. Arjuna was a soldier, he was a fighter. The battlefield was there, the war was there, everything was there. He did not... He took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean he gave up the field and went away. He remained there, but simply the consciousness was changed. He was not willing to fight on his own account. He changed his opinion, "Yes, now I shall fight. By Your grace, my all doubts are now gone." This is required, this is perfection. And there's the picture how Kṛṣṇa is guiding Arjuna. When the ranks are formed.
Devotees and David Wynne: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This faith is the basic principle. So unless one comes to this basic principle of faith, there is no question of progress. So little faith, even. Not full faith. It develops by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with the devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Everything is there. If we adopt, then everyone can make his life successful. There is no doubt about it. Just like if you enter into a school, if you follow the regulative principles of the school and study, you, one day, you become M.A. Where is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty? But if from the beginning, if you have no faith, then what progress you'll make? If you, from the very beginning, if you think, "What will be, this school will do me? They're learning ABCD. What...?" (laughter) There is no faith. You may call it blind faith. But that is required.
Prabhupāda: Detachment, that is required.
Reporter: Anāsakta.
Prabhupāda: Yes, detachment and jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya.
Reporter: Hm. The jñāna-vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: This is the real achievement of human life, that jñāna-vairāgya can be achieved simply by bhakti-yoga. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7). Ah? Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti yo... Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Just like these boys.
Prabhupāda: I've seen Jawaharlal Nehru, Pantha(?)... They stuck to their position up to the point of death. Neither did they know that there is necessity of vairāgya. But Vedic philosophy says... All the ācāryas, they're all vairāgīs, either Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, they're all sannyāsīs. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All vairāgīs. Even Jesus Christ, he was a vairāgī. Even Lord Buddha, vairāgī. This is required, but where is the vairāgya? They're simply attached to these material activities, and they're talking of high, high things. Their preliminary things is not finished, vairāgya. This is the first stage, vairāgya, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42).
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.
Guest (1): Now you did say, I think you did just tell me earlier, that I think you said Kṛṣṇa or somebody last came five hundred years ago.
Prabhupāda: Your existence will be purified. Yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Then you'll get perpetual, blissful life. So everyone is seeking after blissful life, but that is not possible in this materialistic way of life. That is not possible. One must seek blissful life in spiritual understanding, brahma-saukhyam, brahma-sukha. That is required. Transcendental pleasure. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Satyānande, real happiness, in the spiritual understanding, spiritual platform. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate (CC Madhya 9.29). That kind of enjoyment is called rāma. Ramaṇa. From ramaṇa, rāma. That is wanted. So there is no education at the present moment. But people are hankering. Western people especially. They've have seen enough of this material enjoyment, now they are hankering after their spiritual life. Therefore they look forward towards the Vedic culture. This is the answer.
Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.
Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is by tendency. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By the tendency. Therefore one has to approach the spiritual master. He will give direction that "This boy is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa." Everyone has got some tendency. From the tendency it should be designated. Or by work.
Prabhupāda: Hm. You find out the verse: idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā.
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
This is required. If you are a great scientist, you just glorify the qualities of Uttama-śloka. Then it is perfect. Simply you remain a scientist among some people, but you cannot describe about Kṛṣṇa, then your scientific knowledge... Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). Tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sūktasya sviṣṭasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ. Nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅki... What is that?
Guest (1): We have to attend a Bhāgavata-paṭha, at 3.30.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Guest (1): Rādhā-Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. So who is reading?
Prabhupāda: Production. (indistinct) cooperate. Just like United Nations. We can produce 20 times production that is required.
Guest: Quite right.
Prabhupāda: So much land.
Guest: Quite right. In America, Australia, I have seen.
Guest: (indistinct) so little water. You can put plastic sheets to collect water.
Prabhupāda: There will not be any scarcity of food. (indistinct)
Guest: Yes, if we work hard.
Prabhupāda: That is required.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...that they are suffering.
Prabhupāda: Not to speak like mad man. That you are scientists, you are, "We shall solve all the questions." This nonsense thing should stop. They should come to God and understand what God says. Then their life is successful. God Himself is speaking in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. This is not meant for the dogs and cats; this is meant for persons like Arjuna. Because Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna—for enlightened, ah, topmost class of men. They'll understand. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). So be yourself amongst the topmost intelligent class of men and try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then you'll be happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasādād bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No. Similarly, we have got, everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.
Prabhupāda: No, that, that, that is a example, that without Kṛṣṇa's help, everything is useless. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa's wife can be stolen away by others, the plan was different. But the outward show is that without Kṛṣṇa's mercy, nothing can be successful. Even you have got the same bow, same arrows, same man. But Kṛṣṇa... We must depend... That is trust. We have to depend on Kṛṣṇa's mercy. At the same time, we have to work. That is required. It may be Arjuna was proud that "I am Arjuna. I am taking them. Who can touch them?" That proudness. You see? And might be. It is quite natural.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is all right. We want to educate, we don't want to take part in administration. But the administration should be under our guidance; they should take advice from us, how to do it. That is required. We are not going to be president. We are satisfied in our humble temple.
Karandhara: According to traditional American values, though, the government should not take instruction from the church.
Prabhupāda: That is their... But... Church means... Because they've seen church is useless.
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, because he has come here to suffer. You cannot expect in the prison life a very comfortable life. You must suffer. But if somebody goes there, that "Don't commit stealing anymore. Come out and don't come here again," so that is required.
Rūpānuga: Just because a man goes in the prisonhouse doesn't mean his thieving is cured. He will come out a thief unless he is actually rectified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Otherwise again he will commit the same thing and again he will come. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Therefore he requires instruction, good instruction. Sometimes government invites. We were invited that Ahmedabad jail. You remember?
Prabhupāda: Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God. This is the standard of civilization. God is there. Without God, there cannot be anything existing. This is first point. And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means administrator.
Karandhara: Yes. The other one could be the president.
Prabhupāda: Yes, president also administrator. No, one is in the religious order. That is also required. But here we see, persons who are in religious order, they're also addicted to these four sinful, four sinful life. And he's presenting himself as religious.
Karandhara: On the one should we depict meat-eating or animal slaughter?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: Should we depict animal-slaughter or meat-eating?
Prabhupāda: Animal slaughter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You were also given the equal chance. Prabhupāda, my Guru Mahārāja, sat down at Māyāpur. But you were given the place of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. What, what you have done? It is still jungle. And what is Māyāpur there? All Americans are building a palatial building. So simply by criticizing, one does not become a very confidential devotee. Where is the action? What he has done? That is required. Phalena paricīyate. (break) ...everything. Unless Kṛṣṇa gives opportunity, nobody can serve Kṛṣṇa also. But he gives opportunity to the proper person. That is everywhere. If you want to become manager of a firm, the proprietor of the firm will see whether you are able to do that. Then he will give the chance. "Yes." This is reciprocal. Just like this śloka we were studying today. Kṛṣṇa becomes sārathi.
Prabhupāda: ...enjoy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't forget Kṛṣṇa, Then you are well. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. Such a nice park. If we hold saṅkīrtana, people gather and enjoy distribution of prasādam, then it becomes very nice. And only to come here to find out sex facilities, then going to ruin. (Aside:) Give me that. (japa) Very good park. (break) ...and for class of people, talking. This is required, philosophical talk, those who will understand. For mass of people kīrtana is sufficient.
Bali Mardana: Kīrtana and prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I see. Oh, yes, yes. (break) One old lady... You know, in the villages there is fair, or market. So in the morning she saw that so many hundreds of men have assembled. So one lady of that village, she thought that "They have become my guests." So she began to cry and was asking his son, her son, "Oh, how I can accommodate so many people? How can I receive them as guests?" So the son said, "My dear mother, don't be agitated. In the evening you come." So in the evening when she come, there was nobody. There was nobody, because a marketplace. So this botheration is just like the old lady. After seeing so many men, she is agitated. And in the evening there is none. So it requires intelligence, that "They are coming and going. Why I should be bothered about that? Let me do my duty as human being." That is required.
Prabhupāda: They are provided, maintained, by your stool, by your urine. So why do you bother? If your stool and urine can provide so many living entities, why you bother yourself? (Hindi) You do your duty as human being. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ sa... Don't become animal. That is required. (Hindi) (break) ...the essence of knowledge. People are diverted in so many ways. Human duty is... (Hindi) (break) That is human duty. Be surrendered to God. That is your duty. Then everything will come automatically. Everything will come. And without knowledge, how you can take care? That is not possible.
Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, we're late for our meeting. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...be strong. Now nobody cares for it.
Prabhupāda: Any circumstance. That is required.
Guest (2): We should take it very seriously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) "First of all let us become economically fit. Then we shall consider our spiritual." This is nonsense.
Guest (1): That will never come.
Prabhupāda: All the big, big leaders, they wanted to keep themselves economically fit, but when death came, they had to surrender. "Yes sir, (Bengali)"
Guest (4): Many leaders are economically...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Initiation should go on. Even... You do not understand what I have said, that that is for Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu... Just like Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu, He's not human being, but He was acting like human being, similarly, Vaiṣṇava is transcendental. But for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like brāhmaṇa, one should be acting like kṣatriya. That is required. Just like actually we are doing so. Some of you are preaching, and some of you are cleansing the temple. It does not mean that a sannyāsī who is preaching, he is better than that man who is cleansing. The... Their position as Vaiṣṇava is the same. But for the management, one is cleansing, one is seeing the construction, one is going to preach, like that. That should be there. It is not that "Because I have taken sannyāsa, therefore I cannot any more do anything." If need be, he has to act as kṣatriya. Or a śūdra. It doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: Ah. They're Vaiṣṇava. But because they have got to live in the material world, there must be division of work. If everyone wants to become the brain, who will act as leg? That is also required. If everyone says, "No, no, I'm not going to do the work of leg. I want simply to work as..." No. It is needed. The brain is needed, the hand is needed, the belly is needed, the leg is needed. So that we have to divide. Who will work as brain, who will work as hand, who will work as leg... The main aim is how to maintain this body perfectly, fit. That should be the aim, how the society will go on nicely. And for management, this hand, leg, brain, belly must be divided. Just like there's slight difference, those who are directly engaged in temple worship and those who are going to sell books.
Prabhupāda: Study the history of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is required. Not that simply chronological record, all nonsense, and big, big books, and making research. Why should you waste your time in that way?
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. Yes. And so...
Prabhupāda: Hm? History must be for great person. This is history.
Hṛdayānanda: So in our varṇāśrama college the students that come to our college, they follow the four principles... They follow...
Prabhupāda: Not that I was trying to directly contact Kṛṣṇa. That was not my business. This is required. If anyone wants to contact directly Kṛṣṇa, that is not possible. (break)
Guru dāsa: If there is a devotees who are not yet purified, if the devotee is not yet purified, why is the temple president a representative of you? If we are not at the purified stage, then why is the temple president a representative of yourself?
Prabhupāda: To carry his order. That is purification. If you create your own atmosphere, then you become impure. If you simply carry out the order of your spiritual master, then you will be benefited. If you do your own business, that is not good. You can not do anything which is not ordered by your spiritual master. Of course, everyone should have sense. It is not that we are dull, stone. Unless it is moved, it cannot... You have got moving power. But the basic issue should be to carry out the orders of his spiritual master. That is your president. Otherwise you are not.
Prabhupāda: ...Arjuna. In the beginning he was arguing, but when he saw it is useless, he said, śādhi māṁ prapannam. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). That is required.
Guest (3): Guru expects from you that thing... (break)
Prabhupāda: Actually, it is a process, a guru should not instruct anybody who is not a disciple.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Because he's not submissive, it is useless waste of time. That is... That is the... Guru should not speak to anyone...
Dr. Patel: Yes. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: That is also required. Then, I mean, tending the cows. You see. We are getting seven hundred pounds milk daily.
Dr. Patel: This was in Los Angeles?
Prabhupāda: Virginia. Virginia. Different branches in different states. And the school is in Texas, Dallas. There is immense potency of increasing this movement in America. Immense potency.
Dr. Patel: In all departments of life you can increase. Even the workers who are...
Prabhupāda: No, I say, "Let there be saṅkīrtana in factory."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. This is the position of the asuras. This is the characteristic of the asura. They are under stringent laws of nature, being kicked every moment, and still is declaring, "There is no God, I'm independent. I'm independent." Every moment he's dying, and still he thinks, "I shall live forever." This is asura. Pravṛttiṁ ca, nivṛttiṁ ca (BG 16.7). So this is required. Pravṛtti and nivṛtti, to know.
Indian man (4): What is pravṛtti?
Prabhupāda: Pravṛtti means inclination for doing something. That is called pravṛtti.
Indian man (4): Nivṛtti means...?
Prabhupāda: Nivṛtti means to stop. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām.
Indian man (4): Nivṛtti...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the position. Sarveṣu kāleṣu. Not that sometimes here and sometimes there. That will take long time, but unless one comes to sarveṣu kāleṣu, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa...
Dr. Patel: Vedeṣu yajñeṣu tapaḥsu caiva dāneṣu yat-puṇya-phalaṁ pradiṣṭam...
Prabhupāda: Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). That is required.
Dr. Patel: Yajnesu.
- vedeṣu yajñeṣu tapaḥsu caiva
- dāneṣu yat-puṇya-phalaṁ pradiṣṭam
- atyeti tat sarvam idaṁ viditvā
- yogī paraṁ sthānam upaiti cādyam
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if one understands that all these pious activities, charity, performance of sacrifices, and so many other things, only by Kṛṣṇa bhakti can be achieved, then he's assured.
Prabhupāda: Now people may say that "Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend, so he is eulogizing Kṛṣṇa like anything." Therefore he is giving evidence that āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarva: "It is not my sentiment that I am accepting you as such and such. But..." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. (break) He is giving evidence. This is required. This is required. If you say something, it must be supported by authorities. Not that my whimsically I say something like daridra nārāyaṇa.
Dr. Patel: Again you say, daridra-nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Unauthorized statement. This will not be accepted. So āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve.
Prabhupāda: ...yamena damena. There are so many. Out of that, there is one, anasana, not eating. Yes. (break)
Girirāja: "...not very turbulent, he cannot become violent." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...yuktāhāra. Not to eat more, not to eat less. That is required. (break) ...when I was alone in Baroda, I was making my customers for Back to Godhead. So I entered one gentleman's house and from the porch he was, "Don't come! Don't come! Don't come!" (laughs) Immediately.
Dr. Patel: Baroda was a very small place then. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But he cannot do the work of a brāhmaṇa. He cannot be trained as a preacher. But he can help. Just like my legs. The legs cannot do the work of brain, but it can help me. I am walking. So leg is as important as the brain. Similarly, śūdra is as important as the brāhmaṇa, provided he helps the movement, Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted, not that artificially a śūdra should be working as a brāhmaṇa, no. But everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.
Nitāi: So in that case he is a śūdra, and he is also doing the work of a...
Prabhupāda: So this is our... because we are developing a different consciousness... Different... Consciousness is one, but it is being colored under different circumstances. And therefore we have to accept a similar type of body. So if our consciousness is cleansed, then we do not undergo the circumstantial changes by different species of life. That is required. In the human form of life we can do that, not to associate with the modes of material nature, but associate with God. That we can do. And if we associate with God, then we become liberated from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. And our real business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?
Prabhupāda: These boys, although they are young men, they will never go to cinema. They are young men. They have got all propensities. But they are so elevated, they have given up all these low propensities, going to the club, restaurant, and cinema or naked dance and this and that, no. Because they are first-class men, they cannot indulge in the third-class, fourth-class proclivities. We are training them in that way. That is required.
Richard Webster: Well, yes, you said restaurants.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That... You have created this animal civilization. Now they are coming out as naked animals. This is the result. Now you have to reform them. That reformation is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to make an example, what is actually human life. Then others will see. You cannot stop them. But some of them, those who are intelligent, they will see, "Yes, here is life." As they are coming to nakedness, they will come to this, our mode of life. So you have to become an ideal society. You live locally, and be self-sufficient. They will see that it is possible to live locally without movement, and still highly cultured men, self-sufficient. That is required.
Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required.
Prabhupāda: ...advancement is different from others. There are three stages: bodily, mental, intellectual, and above that, spiritual. So we are propagating spiritual advance. Therefore those who are on the bodily platform, mental platform, or intellectual platform, they cannot understand our process. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahiḥ means external. Those who are captivated by the external feature, they cannot understand what we mean by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The external feature, those who are on the bodily platform, they think this material advancement, big, big house, big, big road... This is also required, but this is not all.
Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is giving you everything in right way so that you can save your time, you do not waste your time, and you can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required. We don't say that you stop eating. You eat. Take little Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say that "Don't sleep." No, you sleep, but must rise early in the morning for maṅgala-ārati. This is our philo... Eating, sleeping, and sex. No, we don't say no sex life. Yes, you have sex life. Get your bona fide wife, live peacefully. And defense also, we have. We never say that you forego all these things. No, this is not our philosophy. But similarly, as much as you absolutely require, not more than that. The balance time, save for advancement. These people are simply engaged for eating, sleeping, mating.
Prabhupāda: Sacrifice. Intention means personal intention. Otherwise, intention to satisfy the Lord, that is required. That is bhakti. We are not intentionless, but purified intention.
M. Roost: And what is your practice? Technically, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes, technically, it begins with hearing, śravaṇam, to hear about God. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. We hear from God personally.
M. Roost: But with... Through lecture? Through sound?
Prabhupāda: Yes, through sound vibration.
M. Roost: And repeat and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because if the enlightened men of the society does something, others will follow. It is not that the general mass of people has to be educated. They will be automatically educated. They will follow. If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow.
Prabhupāda: We, we worship Kṛṣṇa in His form, but you are formless. You worship that stone. When we make the form of Kṛṣṇa in stone, then we worship, not that any stone. Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, that does not mean I have to worship the dog. That you worship. Because you are impersonalist, you worship dog. And you are doing that. In the morning, you take a dog and worship it. That is your business. Our business is to worship the form of Kṛṣṇa. That is the, required. (pause)
Bhagavān: Could we say that anyone who is engaged in glorifying the body is actually engaged in idol worship?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Jyotirmayī: He said that Anu-gītā is also a very practical work.
Prabhupāda: No Anu-gītā. Anu-gītā is also another rebellious condition. Bhakti, Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is required. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that the great choice of scriptures from India allows us to choose like that. We can choose.
Prabhupāda: No, you can choose, but if you do not know how to choose, what is the meaning of your choosing? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he choose Radhakrishnan, he choose all the seigneur...
Prabhupāda: But they, all of them...
Pṛthu Putra: He reject Aurobindo...
Prabhupāda: There is a verse. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). If one is God realized soul, he is not afraid of anything. Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. So actually, if one is self-realized, he is no more fearful or concerned with the bodily necessities of life. That is liberation. Just like as you mentioned sleeping. Sleeping also, a bodily necessity. When you are tired, you sleep. That is bodily necessity. But it is not spiritually necessary. About the Gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau: ** "Conquered over sleeping, eating, mating." That is also one of the symptoms of self-realization. These things are necessities of the body. So the more one is advanced in self-realization, these things will be minimized: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. And gradually it will come to nil because this is bodily necessities. Self, the active principle, that is different. The active principle necessity is different. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. But these are bodily necessities: eating, sleeping, mating. So, so long this body is there, of course, we must eat, we must sleep. That is required.
Prabhupāda: No, that is required.
Professor Durckheim: ...but they don't enter into the meaning. They interpret it just along their small brains because they haven't got the experience.
Haṁsadūta: Do you want to go this way around, Prabhupāda, or just walk straight on?
Prabhupāda: No, straight. Car is there?
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, car is there, following us. (break)
Prabhupāda: Artificially they live in the city.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose. Except this purpose, fulfilling, anything we are doing, that is animalism. As the dog is jumping we are also jumping like that. It is dog's dancing, that's all. What is the difference? A dog is thinking, "I am very strong dog. I am this." And another man—"I am Englishman. I am..." So what is the difference? Mentality is the same. To think of this body that "I am this body," that is required to the dog, to the man. When one understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is humanity.
Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, have you realized God?
Prabhupāda: What do you think? What is your opinion?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, follow the instruction. That is required. Follow the instruction. Wherever you remain, it doesn't matter. You are secure. Follow the instruction. Then you are secure anywhere. It doesn't matter. Just like I told you that I saw my Guru Mahārāja not more than ten days in my life, but I followed his instruction. I was a gṛhastha, I never lived with the Maṭha, in the temple. It is practical. So many Godbrothers recommended that "He should be in charge in this Bombay temple, this, that, that..." Guru Mahārāja said, "Yes, better he lives outside. That is good, and he will do what is needed in due course of time."
Prabhupāda: No, he doesn't require. Just like I am working with this dictaphone. I am not a mechanic, but my business is going on. That is required. I have read the instruction paper, that "You use this microphone like this. You put this button," and three, four instruction. So I have learned it and it is giving my business. That's all. Just like this lamp, the instruction is "Push this button," (flicks light button) and it will go, all on. So I know I will get the light. Now I am not electrician. It doesn't require. That much knowledge is sufficient. But I want the light. So the electrician says, "Just put this button in this way. Light will be there." So my business is finished.
Prabhupāda: Yes that is required. There must be determination, and whatever knowledge you get, that must be for practical use. Now, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā... Shall I speak? That he says that the proprietor of the body is within the body. Now, you make your thoughts working on this, that what is that proprietor? And you find that actually this body is not the proprietor, but body is the property, the proprietor is within the body. Then your knowledge is perfect. Then your thoughts, your reasoning... You accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa that the proprietor of the body is within the body. That is knowledge, perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That decision is required, that is knowledge. Simply saying, "I am," everyone can say, "I am." What is that? You must know what you are. That is required. Therefore I am asking, "What you are?"
Lady: I agree. I am just mentioning that "I am" is the name of God, and then you add the adjective, and He will be established unto you.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. "I am" is not the name of God. That is identification. That is the identification. God can say, "I am," you can say, "I am," but that does not mean you are God.
Prabhupāda: So brāhmaṇa means one who knows Brahmān, the soul. This qualification required. Just like to become a lawyer, one must be graduate. Similarly, one must have first of all be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then he can understand what is God, what is soul. So there is no such training college. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, what is soul. That is required. Then your problems will be solved.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The satisfaction is the point. So just like the head of the family, he is asking his wife to do something, children to do something, servant to do something. So if they are doing according to the order, then it is very nice. The head of the family is satisfied, and everything is going nicely. Anywhere, in office also. There are different officers, secretaries, managers, and the director. He has given: "You do this. You do that. You do that. You do that." So if they do their duty, then everything is nice. Just like in your body. Here also we have got different parts. The hand does something, the leg something, the belly something, the brain something. What the brain does, the leg does not do. But the leg is doing for the satisfaction of the whole body. The brain is doing for the satisfaction of the whole body. Hand is doing for the satisfaction of the whole body. That is required, not that what is brain doing, the leg has to do the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Right you are. You are intelligent and... Yes. That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help because all this education will keep him within this material body. And his real relief is how to get out of this material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is required, in Bhagavad-gītā. After giving up this body no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more this material body. That is education.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So these things has to be learned first, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am changing my body, and this is botheration." So if there is any way to stop this changing, that is required. That... That is possible to be done in this human form of life.
Young man: Is there any chance to understand how the Absolute think?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the chance, human body. If you want to know, you can know. Here is the chance.
Young man: Is there a way of knowing that the body you inhabited before was of a inferior quality than the one you're inhabiting now, or...
Prabhupāda: Inferior quality, just like cats and dog. That is inferior quality.
Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the teacher, authority, just like Arjuna accepted. Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Now I accept You as my teacher." Śiṣya. Śiṣya means disciple. Śiṣyas te aham: "I am Your now disciple. Don't accept me as Your friend." Friend to friend talk, it is not very serious. So when one is accepted as the master, then you have to accept his statement. There is no question of argument. That is the relationship between guru and disciple. Therefore the process is: before accepting a person as guru, one must study his position. And guru also, before accepting a disciple, must study his position. In this way the relationship between guru and disciple is established. Now, Arjuna is a friend of Kṛṣṇa, so he has studied Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he submits, Arjuna, "Kṛṣṇa, although we are friends, now I accept You as my spiritual master." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "I am now surrendered." "Surrendered" means "As I accept you as my teacher, I'll not argue." So first of all this is required, that before accepting somebody as teacher one must be convinced that "The person whom I am going to accept, my teacher, is perfect."
Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it." If one is serious, then... That is recommended,
- utsāhāt dhairyāt niścayāt
- tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt
- sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge
- sadbhiḥ bhaktiḥ prasidhyati
These are the process. First of all the first process is utsāhaḥ, enthusiasm: "I must advance in spiritual life." That is required. And if you are failing enthusiasm, then in the beginning it is failure.
Prabhupāda: For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required. Ciraṁ vicinvan.
Prabhupāda: No, why you'll put? (laughs) This is...?
Atreya Ṛṣi: It's not...?
Prabhupāda: This is required?
Rūpānuga: You mean the part about the books, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rūpānuga: You mean the part about the books?
Haṁsadūta: It's already said that you're his direct instructions.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is to protect, like, if somebody chanting sixteen rounds...
Haṁsadūta: It's redundant.
Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unnecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required.
Prabhupāda: But that is not God. Just like gold. Gold is everywhere gold. Because it is in Christian country, you cannot say, "It is Christian gold." And because it is in Muslim country, you cannot say, "It is Muslim gold." Gold is the world standard of money. The same gold, dispatched from America, can be accepted in India. Dispatched from India, it can be accepted in Palestine because it is gold. Everyone who knows what is gold, he'll accept it. So God should be like that. And therefore the name Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive"... When there is gold, either you be Christian, Muslim, Hindu—"Oh, here is a lump of gold. Can I possess it?" That is attraction. So as gold is all-attractive, similarly, God must be all-attractive. And that word is used as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. One who knows gold, he'll be attracted. Doesn't matter whether he's Hindu or Muslim, Christian, poor, rich man, black, white. It doesn't matter. Here is gold, and everyone... Just like in your country there was gold rush. Eh? In California? From all different parts of the world they came. So gold is gold for everyone. So now one should try to understand or check what is gold. That is required.
Prabhupāda: You are so senseless that you do not understand that you are suffering. That is required, just like cats and dogs, they are suffering, they cannot understand. Your position is like that. So our point is that you are suffering, but if you become obedient to God, you will not suffer, that is our propaganda. But you are so fool, rascal, that you do not know that you are suffering. And still you are denying. God is the master, so if you do something wrong, you must suffer. That you are suffering. And we are preaching, that don't do wrong, be very nice, you will not suffer. This is our propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Don't go outside the fire. Then you keep yourself warm. And temperature increase exactly like fire. That is required. That is the motto of our Back to Godhead: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." That is the beginning of our movement. Keep Kṛṣṇa always. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Then you remain Kṛṣṇized. And as soon as you give it up, then think of devils. This is going on. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...kīrtana going twenty-four hours a day. In some of our larger temples is it also advisable?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is advisable for everywhere. Batches. What is the difficulty?
Prabhupāda: No progress. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. This is the greatest offense. (break) (switches to room conversation) ...the animals and human beings. Then they can work. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, then parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Now parjanyaḥ, cloud and rain, that is required. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Then you have to arrange for sacrifice. So in the Kali-yuga the costly sacrifice is not possible. Therefore from the śāstra we understand, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Sumedhasaḥ, "one who has got good brain substance." There is one word in Bhagavad-gītā, alpa-medhasaḥ: "poor brain substance." So we require some sumedhasaḥ, not alpa-medhasaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Results, phalena-paricīyate. That is required. Now there are so many Gandhi-ite students. They have also read Bhagavad-gītā, and you have also read Bhagavad-gītā. Find out the difference. That is the result.
Paramahaṁsa: We have heard that Gandhi was a great mahātmā.
Prabhupāda: You have heard. You have heard so many things. That mountain gave birth to a mouse. You have heard like that.
Paramahaṁsa: But Gandhi also read the Bhagavad-gītā, and he made so many wonderful comments on the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: That is required. Our nature is blissfulness. Unless we reach Kṛṣṇa, talk with Him, dance with Him, eat with Him, enjoy life, our perfection is imperfect, not complete. Simply Brahman realization, just like simply to see, a child can see also the sunshine, but that does not mean he knows what is the sun, although the sunshine is coming from the sun. So unless you understand what is the actual sun, what is the person within the sun globe, our knowledge is imperfect. Simply realization of the big volume of sunshine, is not perfect. It is also light, and the sun globe is also light, heat. But this heat and light is not sufficient knowledge of the complete heat and light there. That is the difference between Brahman realization and God realization.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required because unless you give up your lusty desires, you will have to remain in this material world, and to remain in the material means suffering. If you actually do not want suffering, then you have to practice all these things so that you can go to the spiritual world. That is the aim of life. And for going to the spiritual world, you have to be completely, cent percent free from all material desires. And so long you will have material desires, you have to accept one material body. Nature is so kind, or the law of nature is so perfect. As long as you will have a little pinch of material desire, then you will have to accept. That's all. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad... And that material life means you may become a grass or you may become a demigod like Brahmā. That will depend on your desire. But you will have to accept.
Justin Murphy: Oh, sure, to begin with, and so there must be.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, there must be a department to train first-class men. That is required.
Justin Murphy: We don't have them in our universities.
Prabhupāda: So therefore it is chaotic, no first-class men, all third class, fourth class.
Justin Murphy: What are the specifications for your first-class man?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. Satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā.
Paramahaṁsa: Satyam?
Prabhupāda: Your preaching is all right, so, provided you preach something good. But when everything is good, then where is the, your preaching required? You preach something. Just like we are preaching. We are preaching. This is actually good for, that he must know what he is and what is the ultimate goal of life. This is required. Material preaching has no value. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ei bhāla ei manda, saba manodharma: " 'This is good; this is bad,' this is all mental concoction." Actually. But real good is: "He has forgotten God. Revive his consciousness." That is real good. Then he'll saved from the so-called good and bad and everything. That is wanted. Materially, everything is one man's food, another man's poison. Therefore there is no distinction—"This is good; this is bad." The stool is very bad, bad smell for you, but it is food for the pig. This is proof—"One man's food, another's poison." So this is only mental concoction, "This is good; this is bad."
Prabhupāda: Municipal sweeper also. (break) Similarly we can go to the place where there is simply pleasing atmosphere. Simply we have to become purified. That is required. But they don't want to be purified, they want to become more entangled in sinful life, illicit sex, meat-eating. That they do not know that "I am entangling myself. Instead of being purified, I am becoming more and more entangled." This is ignorance. (break) ...criticize us, shaven-headed. They don't criticize long hairs, but shaven-headed. Just see. If you don't criticize the long hairs, why should criticize the shaven-headed? But they criticize us. So regularly they are going out?
Prabhupāda: So people, either through Christianity or through any process, they must come to the understanding platform where we can understand what is God and how to love Him. That is required. Otherwise this human civilization will be spoiled.
Jesuit: And the great truth also that God loves every one of us.
Prabhupāda: God loves. That is natural, but you do not love, I do not love. That is the difficulty. Father loves the son; that is natural. But when the son does not love father that is a very precarious condition.
Jesuit: Good. Well, thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, jaya.
Prabhupāda: That is necessary. Just like in your body you have got hands, legs, belly, but the head must be there. If your head is cut off, then, despite you have got hands, legs, and belly, it is useless. So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to keep at least one class of men, ideal devotee, ideal character. At least, people will see, "Oh, here is an ideal character." That is required. That is described in the Śrīmad-..., Bhagavad-gītā, how to create a first-class man. Just like we have got educational institution for giving instruction on law or medical science or engineering, similarly, there must be an institution to make first-class devotee, ideal man.
Prabhupāda: Heroism. Therefore the kṣatriyas are allowed to hunt in the forest to become hero because he has to fight. Just like in medical laboratory they first of all dissect some poor animal before touching human being. Therefore kṣatriyas are allowed to hunt to become hero. Facing the tiger, "Come on." And still, say, about twenty-five years ago, there was a native prince in Jaipur. Every year he would go to the forest and face the tiger, without any weapon. So that is required.
Guest 2: That is good?
Prabhupāda: That is required. Those who are politicians, those who are going to be president, they must be like that.
Guest 2: In our society that wouldn't be thought good.
Prabhupāda: Learned scholars, philosophers, they should understand the importance of this movement and how it is beneficial. They are suffering for want of knowledge of the spirit soul. They are keeping themselves in the animal platform with their so-called education, but unless there is spiritual understanding, the education has no value. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He will remain on the mental platform. And mind is now materially contaminated. So even if he remains in the mental platform, he remains in the material platform. He cannot make any improvement. One has to come to the spiritual platform. That is required.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the person. God is ultimately a person. And then, by His another potency, He is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramānu-cay... He is situated within the atom also. That is called Paramātmā, Supersoul. And He is situated in His impersonal, the whole material creation or any creation. The example is given just like fire. Fire is one place but its heat and light is expanded to mines. Just like the sun. It is a fire light, but heat and light is expanded throughout the universe. So similarly, God is one and His energy is expanded everywhere. You can understand Him by His energies. Just like the government, the president, he is not here, but still, we are under government. Who can deny, that "I am not under government"? If you say, "I do not see who is president. What is the government?" That is not argument. You are. Simply you have to make your eyes to see how you are under Kṛṣṇa. That is required. But you are already.
Prabhupāda: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe, conclusion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required.
Prabhupāda: At least these two classes required: good politicians, administrators, and good advisors. So this program we are placing before the world. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I would suggest that in your country you are resourceful. You can take up this movement very seriously. And it is not expected that cent percent of the population will become first-class, but there must be ideal groups of first-class, second-class, third-class and the rest, fourth-class. That is required.
Mayor: It takes a great deal of discipline to try to achieve these ideals, and that's one thing that seems to be difficult these days, especially in young people, to have any sense of the need for discipline at all.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vairāgya. That is required. That is civilization. Vairāgya and jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya, knowledge and renunciation, or detachment, this is the goal of human life. Because he is attached to this material world, he has to take birth after birth, birth after birth. So to save this botheration, one has to be detached. This is the basic principle of Vedic civilization, jñāna-vairāgya. And detachment is possible when one is in full knowledge, jñāna. And this bhakti-yoga process is detachment. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So it is a civilization of detachment, not attachment.
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college. Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position. So there is first-class man. Now we have to train them properly how to become controller of the mind, how to become controller of the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed internally, externally, how to become full of knowledge, how to try to apply the knowledge in practical life, how to become God conscious. This training is... A first-class man can take up, just like they are taking, all these boys. They had their first-class brain, and now they are being trained up. That is required, trained up first-class men.
Prabhupāda: Yes, for the noneducated rascal, belief is the... That is required, blind belief. That is good.
Bahulāśva: Blind faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bahulāśva: But to become an advanced devotee, do you have to have knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, catur-vidhā bhajante mām...
Jayādvaita: Janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna.
Prabhupāda: Sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. Jñānī... What is called?
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.
Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.
Prabhupāda: They will not come. Then he is condemned. Let them remain animals. If you don't go to school, there is no question of education. Where is the question of education? One must go to the school with faith that "I will be educated." That is required.
Yadubara: But if they take some prasādam, that will help them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your mercy, that you are... He is faithless rascal. "All right, you take prasādam. That will help you." Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: You may be pleased to know that Karttikeya... He said he's looking forward to going to Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise why he is coming again? (chuckles) There must be some faith.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Śraddhāvān, That is required. If he has no faith, then he remains in darkness.
Devotee (6): If we save the common people by giving them prasādam, how can we save the impersonalists?
Prabhupāda: That will come later on. (break) ...ists will not come. They will never come because they do not believe in the personal feature of God. Unless very hungry, he will not come because he does not believe in prasāda, does not believe in God.
Prabhupāda: Thousands of hippies are lying down there. In London I have seen in St. James Park, early, because I go for morning walk, that the police is kicking, "Ho! get up! Get up!" And government has engaged men: "Why you are living like this? Come here. If you have no home, we are giving home." They don't care. Therefore the śāstra says that simply try to make man Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). In other life, either high-grade life, low-grade life, there was no chance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. But the human life there is chance. Kṛṣṇa conscious means, when we speak Kṛṣṇa, God. So that is... There is the chance. So the śāstra says, instead of endeavoring for other things, better you try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will solve all the problems.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has made the varieties. Why should you disturb? Let the variety be united, just like these varieties are united, and it looks nice, and if you eat that will be nice. Why you want to stop the variety? That is Māyāvādī. Equality does not mean to stop variety. All the varieties combine together for the same purpose. That is required. Is it not? One must know how to put the variety to look very (indistinct). If all the vases have only rose flowers it would not have been so beautiful. Rose is costly, but the leaves are not costly. But the leaves and the rose fit together, it becomes very good variety. That art is required, how to keep varieties together for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and look very beautiful. This art is known to the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, not to the fools and rascals. Why Kṛṣṇa has made varieties? Why you should try to change? That is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When Kṛṣṇa has made so many varieties there is some purpose. That one should understand. That is intelligence. You can organize these farms very nicely. Then this devil's workshop will stop.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) This is meant for the executive head of the state. It is meant for. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, it is stated,
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāhur
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣayo. It is meant for the rājarṣis. So Indira is in the position of rāja. If she becomes a ṛṣi, then it will be successful. Then it will be successful. (Bengali) ...that "You have got the position of royalty. You become a saintly lady. Then your scheme will be all successful." That is required. That I can help, how to make her a ṛṣi.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Vāsughoṣa: "You should never see a graven image of God."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because you are not competent to see God everywhere.
Vāsughoṣa: No, but they...
Brahmānanda: They prohibit.
Vāsughoṣa: They prohibit the worship of this vigraha. They say that "God cannot be made into a graven image."
Brahmānanda: They say it is blasphemy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this is a fact, that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yoga, and preach it. This is a fact. Except we, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody knows anything—all mūḍhas. Any association, any religion—all mūḍhas. But you must prove yourself. Otherwise it will be bigotry. If you simply say that "We are only first class" without any knowledge... You have to defend yourself. There will be so many opposing elements. Then you become first class. Your position is first class, but you have to maintain it. Otherwise, they will say "religious fanatics." Any opposition party, you have to meet. That is required.
Prabhupāda: Hindi. (Hindi) You read it thoroughly and you explain it either in English or Hindi, as you think befitting to your friends. So we have got so many literatures in French language. We are also asking some men from Europe. That will create some impression. Yes. White elephant. (laughter) Dancing. Everyone will purchase ticket. Yes. (Hindi) Bring some white elephant. So literature is there. But one thing is that you must be placed in sadācāra, well behaved. So you have to sacrifice, especially your long hair. And if you sacrifice your hair, we can export it and get some money. (laughter) Because in Western countries they want these hairs to make wigs. Yes. So just... (Hindi) As they have been trained up to rise early in the morning, this will give you spiritual strength. If you simply becomes a gramophone speaker, then it will not be effective. Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be. You must be live speaker. Your living condition should be spiritually, what is called, surcharged. So that means you must be trained up how to rise early in the morning, take your bath, cleanse yourself, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then you will be spiritually strong. When you are spiritually strong, if you speak something on spiritual subject matter, then it will be effective. Otherwise it will be just like tape record playing. So this is required. And you should... You are asking something?
Guest (1): No, Swamijī. Previously you have been only going one day in a village. Only one day means two hours or like this. People are influenced...
Prabhupāda: Once or continual. Yes. That is required.
Guest (1): Yes. A continual program.
Prabhupāda: "Knock, knock, knock, and the door will open." That philosophy.
Guest (1): They have been a little in the villages with books and doing saṅkīrtana in the street. That is very good. But it...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do saṅkīrtana. The villagers will join.
Prabhupāda: No. This is the term used, "lazy," but real term is dhīra. The Sanskrit word is dhīra. And everything... Just like high-court judge, he is dhīra. He is... Before giving judgment, he thinks three days, silently. That is your... That is not laziness. His brain is working how to give nice judgment. That is required. But because we do not understand what is dhīra, we think that "This man is sitting idly and drawing four thousand rupees." Because we know, "Unless one is active like dog, running there, running there, he is not a busy man." And he cannot appreciate the work of the author, the work of the high-court judge. They think they are lazy. Therefore he's using the lazy, but lazy and intelligent. Otherwise he is not lazy; he is dhīra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we also say, but you must know how to get happiness. That is required. Happiness is the aim of everyone. But how to get happiness, permanent, that is knowledge.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is a devotee seeking mental happiness as well? Is the devotee searching after...
Prabhupāda: A devotee does not seek anything except service of Kṛṣṇa. He does not seek anything separate. He simply wants to serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Anyābhilāṣita śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Making zero all other desires, that, he is devotee. If he is going to Kṛṣṇa for some happiness, he is not a devotee.
Dr. Patel: In ancient times it was done by association in gurukula.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is required, gurukula. We are starting, therefore, gurukulas. And it is becoming...
Dr. Patel: Gurukula. Kula of guru.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmacari gurukule vasan danto guror hitam. This is the beginning. A brahmacārī should live in the aśrama of guru, danta, self-controlled, and only for the benefit of guru, not for anyone's benefit. Brahmacārī guru... They'll go, collect alms, and everything should be delivered to guru.
Dr. Patel: When Kṛṣṇa was sent to collect the wood.
Prabhupāda: That is required. That is education. This is not education. They are killing the teachers. They are killing teachers. You do not know?
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: In the examination hall the police is there, and if the guard detects, "Oh, you are taking notes from books," then he will be killed. So many teachers have been killed.
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Police, under police they are. I saw in Delhi. One school I went, and the police is there, examination room, but all thieves, rascals. And they are sitting in examination for passing, all rascals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is required. Why purchasing cloth, twenty-two rupees per pair? No? What is the charge nowadays?
Mahāṁsa: It's about three, four rupees per meter.
Girirāja: For two dhotīs you'd need fifteen rupees.
Prabhupāda: Fifty?
Girirāja: Fifteen.
Prabhupāda: Fifteen. Yes.
Girirāja: For the good quality.
Prabhupāda: So if we produce our own cloth, there is no su... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, we cannot cooperate. But if there is meeting we can prove them that they are fools. (laughter) That's all. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya.
Indian devotee: That is required. Actually, that is the potency of your teaching is so powerful. I have seen that every time someone makes this poor excuses in front of people... Just like yesterday I was in the train, and one guy was saying exactly the same thing, that "I believe in the Bhagavad-gītā in my own way." So I opened up Bhagavad-gītā and I showed to four people, "Look here, just see what Kṛṣṇa is saying here." And all of them agreed. They said, "Yes, yes. You are right and he is wrong." All of them. He said that "I believe in Bhagavad-gītā in my own way." I said, "Are you the controller of the sun and the moon and the stars and the planets?"
Indian man (2): Prabhupāda, (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...ananya-bhāk, that is required. Āra-nā koriho mane.. ananya-bhāk, no diversion of attention.
Indian man (3): (break) ...you see, I am now trying to learn (indistinct) something, and I find that by doing bhakti, ah, what you call pūjā, saguṇa pūjā, whenever I come to your place, instead of seeing the Kṛṣṇa mūrti, I always see the liṅgam, pure liṅgam. Why this phenomena going on?
Prabhupāda: You are a great devotee of Lord Śiva, so that's all right.
Indian man (3): I have already, seeing the.... My parents may be doing, I have not done much except knowing only a few lines of the...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You remain a devotee of Lord Śiva. There is no harm.
| Page Title: | That is required (Conversations 1969 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 11 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=118, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 118 |