That is real... (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"that is real" |"this is real"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhāvana is also not practical. Parabrahma-bhāvana, kṛṣṇa-bhāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Indian man (2): Supreme Lord.

Prabhupāda: That is real meditation. Meditation does not mean to make the mind vacant. No, a wrong. People are thinking like that. It cannot be. One girl—that is written—"Sir, meditation to make the mind out of all thoughts." So she said, she thought that "How can I be without thoughts? This 'without thought,' I'll think—that is a thought. Therefore it is bogus." He (she) threw away this meditation book.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Oh, salve of love, yes. So that is required. Your.... Therefore tat-paratvena nirmalam. You have to make your senses purified; then bhakti will begin. Otherwise it is karma. If your senses are not purified, then it is karma. There is a difference between karma and.... Premāñjana-cchurita... What is that? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). If you think yourself that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that," then you are not upādhi-mukta; therefore you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. You can see Kṛṣṇa when you are no more within these upādhis, pure soul. Brahma.... That is real brahma-bhūtaḥ, to understand the position of the soul and engage the soul in the service of the Lord. Then it is perfect.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Dead. This is going on. And our prayer is, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "I don't want anything. Simply engage me in Your service." Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī. This is real prayer, which is taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? I was reading in a magazine that in Germany the people used to be pious, but after the Second World War...

Prabhupāda: They became atheist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Completely atheists.

Guḍākeśa: Prabhupāda said that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "As soon as you surrender, I take charge of you." Then everything you'll get. Be always confident that "Kṛṣṇa will save me. Let me serve Kṛṣṇa sincerely." That's all. (Bengali) You'll find in Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna many times said, iti śuśrūṣu: "I do not know whether it is correct, but I heard it like that." That is speaking. What you have heard from the authorities, if you speak, you repeat that, that is real speaking. Then pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt: then you'll be guru for the whole world, if you don't manufacture. So what is the difference between our Kṛṣṇa conscious and others? They manufacture ideas. Just like Ramakrishna Mission, manufacture: daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā. Where is...? Nārāyaṇa is there, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. Where is this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa? He manufactured.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever direction is there, you take that. The medicine is given. Doctor gives direction. "So many drops you can take." Now you say, "Oh, the good medicine. Let me eat the whole thing. I become cured immediately." Then you die. You have to take, enjoy, but according to direction. God does not say that "You don't enjoy." You are, what is called, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). A living entity means ānandamaya, enjoyment. But that ānanda, where it is permanent ānanda, how we have to reach that permanent ānanda, that is being taught. Otherwise, you foolish, you'll eat the whole medicine and die. That's all. Therefore the varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma means that is real human civilization. There is direction that "You enjoy like this." And if you become mlecchas and yavanas, then you'll not enjoy. You simply suffer. You do not know how to enjoy.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentleman—at least in India—for your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramāṇuvāda. Kaṇada, the great sage, Kaṇada, he gave this theory, Kaṇada. Paramāṇuvāda. Paramāṇuvād. Paramāṇuvāda is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramāṇu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, they.... So, so they're standing—no customer at two o'clock. It is very cold. So Vidyasagara will take compassion: "All right, you take two rupees. Go home. Sleep." And that is in Vidyasagara's life, compassionate to the prostitute. By giving her two rupees, will she change her profession? But this learned man, he thought like that, that "She is standing in the severe cold. All right, let me.... Let me.... Let me give her two rupees. Then go home. Don't take so much..." He's Vidyasagara. The vidyā-sāgara means "ocean of education." And Haridāsa Ṭhākura—a prostitute came for three nights and converted her to a devotee. That's it. That is real compassion, not that "Take two rupees and go home." No. Turn her. That is real compassion, to turn everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the greatest welfare activity in the world. Otherwise there cannot be any peace or prosperity. Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, he had a cold, and he's lying down.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: "Let me facilitate their service."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we say prabhu. Prabhu means "You are my master. Please order me. What can I do for you?" That should be the attitude. (break) ..."Guru dāsa Prabhu, please come here and brush my shoes." (laughter) What kind of prabhu? He should say, "Guru dāsa Prabhu, can I brush your shoes?" That is real Vaiṣṇava, not that "Guru dāsa Prabhu, come here and brush my shoes." Other devotees, they do not come for morning class?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For the walk?

Prabhupāda: Not for walk. At least we shall hold morning class or not?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, Prabhupāda, please. A few devotees are staying at the hotel here.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is a program tonight if you'd rather.... There is a program this evening, going out, the Rotary Club. So if you would rather just give class this evening.

Prabhupāda: No, no, regularly we hold morning class anywhere. So.... So that morning class is not going to be held here?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the temple we have it. They had it this morning, but.... (end)

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Decreasing?

Yaśodānandana: They will argue like that.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Family planning, why family planning? Family planning is already there that don't marry. Why don't you accept this? Don't have sex. This is real family planning.

Jayādvaita: "That is horrible."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayādvaita: "It is horrible."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Might as well kill ourselves."

Prabhupāda: Not horrible. It is horrible for a particular person. Otherwise.... (break) Karma-bandhana. What is this?

Lokanātha: They are flowers. These are the flowers.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In little pots.

Prabhupāda: Fruits also?

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You mean bring about the spiritual communism of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That is real com... Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They are stating, "Everything belongs to the state." Why you are limiting? State is limited. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect communism.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Bible it says, "On earth as it is in heaven," that the life on earth should be also under the domain of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But there is no program how to actually do that.

Prabhupāda: No, program is there. Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Do this program, execute," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... Program is there, but rascal will not take it. There is no difficulty.

Dr. Patel: The Christian prayers are also the self-surrender.

Prabhupāda: Any prayer. If we become God conscious...

Dr. Patel: "Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom..."

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. And without God consciousness there is no qualification. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Potency, thousand times. Otherwise, why they are going to the Vṛndāvana? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: Sir, what is the difference between mānasī chanting and chanting...

Prabhupāda: No, mānasī chanting, that is smaraṇa. That is another thing. But chanting means the tongue must work. That is real chanting.

Dr. Patel: But if only tongue works and the mind does not work, it has no value.

Prabhupāda: So mind will... You chant loudly, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa"; the mind will come.

Dr. Patel: This mind, buddhi, and the jīva in it, all the three must carry on...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it is real chanting.

Dr. Patel: ...with the chanting.

Prabhupāda: You have to practice. You have to practice. Not all of a sudden these three things can be combined so you can become.... It requires practice. Jaya. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). You have to practice. Your mind cannot go outside. Then it will be... You have to become the master of your mind. You cannot be dictated by the mind. Then you are victim. There is a verse that "The mind is friend, and mind is enemy. One who can dictate the mind, his mind is friend. And one who is dictated by the mind, his mind is enemy." So we have to learn how to dictate, control the mind. And that is yoga system. Yoga indriya-saṁyama.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is ego.

Indian (1): Real ego. That is the reason. That is the reason.

Prabhupāda: So long I'll think that "I am Patel. I am master of this man..." (Dr. Patel talking simultaneously) (Hindi) People are, I mean to say, entangled with these all upādhis. So therefore bhakti begins when one is upādhi-less. No more upādhi. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). That is real ego.

Dr. Patel: That is complete submersion of your ego. Dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsa. I mean, after śarīra...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora, arpiluṅ tuwā pade, nanda-kiśora. Nanda-kiśora... (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: You hand over the steer of your...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The next line is mārobi rākhobi, yo icchā tohārā. (Hindi) This is surrender.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: People. I also.

Prabhupāda: No, no. A devotee never thinks "I am body." "The body is mine, or body is given to me. So this body is given by Kṛṣṇa. Let this body be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service." Then it is all right. Both the prakṛtis, parā-prakṛti and aparā, is Kṛṣṇa's. So even if you say that spiritually you can serve, but this is also Kṛṣṇa's prakṛti. You cannot reject the body and simply take the soul. That is not possible. It is now combination. So the body, karmaṇā manasā vācā. So we are not rejecting this body. Why? This is also Kṛṣṇa's. How can I reject it? Kṛṣṇa's things must be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is real philosophy. You cannot say, "This is not Kṛṣṇa's." What is not Kṛṣṇa's? Everything is Kṛṣṇa's.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...

Dr. Patel: That is real Vaiṣṇava. Otherwise you are not.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Without Vāsudeva, without Kṛṣṇa's order.... Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). Everything is being done under His superintendence. Mayādhyakṣeṇa. Even in the prakṛti, aparā and parā... There are two prakṛtis. So even in aparā-prakṛti there is superintendence of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: I am interrupting you, sir. Mayādhyakṣeṇa sūyate prakṛtiḥ sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Now then, mayādhyakṣeṇa, we want to learn how He adhyakṣa, and that is our vidyā, and that is our aparā-vidyā.

Prabhupāda: That is parā-vidyā.

Dr. Patel: That is real scientist.

Prabhupāda: That is parā-vidyā. And don't now, please, say we are...

Prabhupāda: No, no, then don't refer to parā-vidyā (?).

Dr. Patel: We are trying to learn it.

Prabhupāda: No, but you defy Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they should admit who has adjusted it. Then who has adjusted like this, so that the color, the flavor, everything is maintained standard? That is real scientist.

Dr. Patel: Svabhāva hatu pravar.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Svabhāva means prakṛti. So mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti (BG 9.10).

Dr. Patel: So under His guidance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So matter cannot work. Yasyājñayā... There is a verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti.... Svabhāva is Durgā. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā (Bs. 5.44). By His desire.

Dr. Patel: No, sir, He desired and said, "Let Me be many," and He became many. So by desire the whole cosmos has come into existence. So by desire the colors change.

Prabhupāda: Even there.... Coconut trees, there are varieties. One tree is standing like this; one is standing like this. Varieties.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Mike Barron: What do you call that force?

Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.

Mike Barron: Just getting off that, can I ask why you've come to Australia again?

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that, that this is my mission, to educate people to understand himself. They are under this misconception that "Every one of us, we are this body." That is misconception. You must know who is within the body. That is real education.

Mike Barron: And how long.... You'll continue this until...

Prabhupāda: Well...

Mike Barron: ...until you die.

Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there in the Vedic literature, but there was no discussion, at least in the Western countries. So I am trying to.... We have got so many books, eighty-four books, writing on this science. (aside:) Show him our books. They are being accepted by high learned circle. (break) ...written not jokingly. It is a great science.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is.... That you have to consider, that it is a fact. And the yoga system is meant.... This is the real yoga system, that because we are on the false understanding, identifying with the body, so the bodily function should be controlled, and concentration or focus should be placed: "What is that living condition?" That is yoga or meditation, to find out what is the real.... Analyze this body and find out where is the living pulse. And that is real yoga system, to control the senses. The senses are working. Now we are getting knowledge through the senses. How to get this knowledge of the living force? That, a mechanical arrangement, that is called yoga system.

Cameraman(?): Somebody move up.

Mike Barron: Yes. Do you have a two-shot, or do you want to get that afterwards?

Cameraman: Yeah, I'll get to that. You're going to have to keep my front out as much as you can. Don't.... (talks about filming)

Mike Barron: Can you tell us a little bit about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what it does mean?

Prabhupāda: Just like the living force within the body, that is the most important thing, similarly, throughout this creation, cosmic manifestation, Kṛṣṇa is the most important thing.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: If you want real happiness.... That I have already explained. Real happiness—to become free from the natural material laws, birth, death, old age and disease. This is real happiness. Suppose you are arranging for your happiness, and all of a sudden death comes. Then where is happiness? So how you can check? So the real impediment of our happiness is stated: birth, death, old age and disease. So if you want real happiness, then you have to first of all make arrangement that you'll not die or you'll not take birth, you'll not become old, you'll not be diseased. Just like insurance. They make insurance of life. So where is your insurance for these things? You do not want to die, but you are forced to die. Where is insurance? This is insurance, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Carol Jarvis: Oh, I couldn't.... I agree with everything that you're saying about the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So but therefore how you can make a plan of happiness? Nature is baffling your plan. That you have to understand, "Why nature is baffling me?" That is real knowledge.

Carol Jarvis: So your answer...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: ...is to work with nature.

Prabhupāda: We can do that. We can do that, that...

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

You cannot combat with the nature's law, but Kṛṣṇa says that if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can do that. You can stop nature's law acting upon you. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It is struggle. Struggle means.... Struggle for existence means there is something against my will, and I want to stop it. This is called struggle for existence. And that is.... The whole world is going on, that.... They have started that United Nation. Why United Nation? You remain.... But they are trying to stop war. "Let us struggle unitedly." So that is going on. You don't want war, but the war is inevitable. Even the United Nation is there, still war is going on. That is struggle. So, but they are not coming to the point of understanding that "We are trying so much, so hard, to become happy, but nature is not allowing me." This is real intelligence. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. If we remain dull—"Let the nature's law act upon me as it likes"—and we go on struggling to stop it, it will never stop, because nature's law is so powerful. You can never stop it.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Everyone can be devotee.... It is a question to understand that "I am not this body." That is beginning. So a businessman can try to understand, a lawyer can try to understand, or a philosopher can try to under.... Everyone can do that. The real point is, first of all try to understand that you are not this body. So where is the hampering, becoming a businessman or family man or this or that? There is no hampering. We are trained up from the very beginning of our life by our parents. We got the opportunity. And businessman, no businessman, it doesn't matter. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo... (SB 1.2.6). Find out this verse. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa conscious is unhampered by anything material. It does not mean that because you are a businessman you cannot be Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. That is not. You may be whatever you are, but you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious at the same time. (break) (devotees offer obeisances) (background talking) So it is not the superexcellency of English language. It is subject matter. Formerly they used to speak in Sanskrit. Therefore it is recorded in Sanskrit language. It can be transferred to any language. The thoughts are there. That is real point. Just like we are translating the thoughts in English, in Spanish, in Portuguese, in French. The real thing is the thought, not the language. But in Sanskrit language you'll find very, very high thoughts. That is because it is very old language.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

That we have to receive from authorities. Just like any scientific book, say medical science. You cannot understand medical science by reading the books. It must be received through a medical man. Then it will be clear. Therefore the paramparā system.... Arjuna said, evaṁ paramparā... Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Everything is paramparā. If you receive the knowledge from the authority, then you are in perfect knowledge, simply by..., not by reading the books. Therefore our method is to accept the perfect guru to understand the subject matter. But still, if one reads the books as it is from authorities, there is chance of understanding. Real thing is training. So our institution is training, not only training, full knowledge, practical and theoretical. That is real scientific. If you give up one side, then you can give up the theoretical side, but practical side you cannot give up. Then you'll never come. The two sides, practical and theoretical.... So that is real scientific knowledge. So two sides are presented in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and they are being thoroughly trained up. (pause) Take prasādam. (end)

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There is no use taking part in that meeting. Simply take a book stall. "Bhakti-yoga books." Give a signboard, "Bhakti-yoga books." And give the picture of Dhruva Mahārāja, five-years-old boy, executing bhakti-yoga alone in the forest. We have got meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). That is real yoga. And Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api... These ślokas, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). One who's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogi. Give one picture of the devotees chanting in a very nice place, and give evidence, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: "This, first-class yogi. Here is first-class yogi." That will be our preaching. Dhruva Mahārāja is practicing yoga. There are many others. The highest perfection is Rādhārāṇī, that simply crying, "Kṛṣṇa has gone to Mathurā, not coming back." That is the..., the whole day and night crying. Who can perform this yoga? So if you, if possible, draw pictures.... Satchidananda, he is also a leader? He has?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Bogus!

Interviewer: Oh, bogus. Do you believe that Hare Kṛṣṇa is the only true faith?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is real knowledge. We have got, I have already told you, only on this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, there is one book by Professor Judah. Have you got that book?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: He has written one book very authorized, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. So we are being accepted by learned circle, and who cares for these rascals? Nobody cares. Only some sentiment. There is no science; there is no knowledge. Here it is authoritative knowledge based on Vedic culture.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata. Kārpaṇya-doṣa (BG 2.7). "It was my duty to understand myself, and I am thinking of my these nonsense relatives—my grandfather, my son. What is this? I know that. What I can do by thinking about them? It may be they have come to war. But suppose they would have died naturally—what could I do? So why I am perplexed with these things? I know the defect. I cannot cause their death or birth or existence. It is beyond my jurisdiction. And still, I am anxious: If I kill them, then what would happen? What would happen?" You kill or not kill, they'll be killed, today or tomorrow. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). A learned man knows that the body will be finished, the bodily action, today or tomorrow. So what is to lament after this body? Lamentation is that the person within the body, whether he's going to hell or heaven. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti or tamo gacchanti. That is real concern. Body will be finished, today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. Who can protect it? But one should be interested with the owner of the body, where he is going, what is his next position. And that is clearly stated: adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). So you are interested to go up or down or remain in the same status. There are three status: up, down, and the same.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gītā teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so essential. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge. Darwin's theory. It is simply speculation on ignorance, and it has been taken as knowledge. Freud's philosophy is the business of the hogs and dogs, and it has been taken as philosophy. Even the hogs and dogs know how to enjoy sex life. And they are.... On account of sex life, they have written a philosophy. Is that philosophy? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Find out. The Thirteenth Chapter.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: It is to be spoken to the most confidential person. "You are My dear friend; I am talking." Other rascals will not understand. It is especially for Arjuna, not for the common man.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "...I am speaking to you this most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit."

Prabhupāda: "That is especial friendship and especial love; so I give you this. Keep it confidential." This is real. Other rascals will not value this. They will protest, "Huh? Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa?"

Guru-kṛpā: So what is that confidential?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).

Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "So we have spoken so many other things for other rascals. But you are My friend, very intimate. I tell you, this is real fact." So fact is fact. If you take earlier or later, that is different thing. You have to come. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). One has to take many births before coming to this understanding. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. So everyone is not mahātmā even, what to speak of sudurlabhaḥ. (laughs) (end)

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: They are mahājanas. "Prahlāda has taken, Bhīṣmadeva has taken, Janaka Mahārāja has taken, Lord Brahmā has taken, Lord Śiva has taken, Nārada has taken, Kapila has taken.... What I am?" (laughs) That is intelligence. "Why I am waiting on my intelligence?" That is real. But this rascal is thinking more than Brahmā, Nārada, Kapila, Prahlāda. He is thinking he is more than them. That means rascal, overintelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Intelligence means you must have reason. And if he is going beyond reason, only depending on himself, then he is overintelligent rascal. You understand overintelligent rascal? Don't be overintelligent. That is very risky. Be intelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Spoiling. Just like milk. You are heating, and if you give overheat, spoil so many. That kind of heating is not required. You just push on heat as much required. Otherwise you'll spoil by your intelligence.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Laṅgoṭā means the loincloth. So what is it you have given up? And you cannot give up your body. This is made, this kṣitir ap-tejo-marud-vyoma, (indistinct) these five elements, they're also Kṛṣṇa's. You have got mind. Oh, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What you have got that you'll give up? You have stolen everything. You don't accept the real proprietor, and you are thinking, "I am the proprietor." That is your fault. That is miscreant. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). It is said there. Read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, that everyone is a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate. All thiefs, rogues, rascals. That is the substance. If one does not accept God, the Supreme, and does not surrender, he is miscreant, mūḍha. Mūḍha. He does not know what does he possess, and he's thinking, "I am giving up." What you are giving up? You do not possess anything. A mūḍha, falsely thinking that "I am giving up." What you have got? Nobody can give up, nobody can enjoy. This is real knowledge. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa: (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109) "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. Everything possessed by Kṛṣṇa. So I'll simply try to offer Kṛṣṇa whatever is there for His..." Just like nokara (indistinct), servant, in a house, he's trying to satisfy the master. But the things does not belong to him. The things belongs to the master. But if he serves very nicely, master becomes pleased, "Oh, he is very faithful servant. Perfect." Faithful means he knows that "Everything belongs to master, and everything should be utilized for master's pleasure, not for my pleasure." Then he's a thief, he's a bad servant.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...go back to Godhead can be sense gratification?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also a contaminated desire. Otherwise why Caitanya will say mama janmani, to go? Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam (BG 15.6). If one goes to Vaikuṇṭha he does not come. But Caitanya also says He does not desire that. He is.... "Let me remain perpetually here, but be engaged in Your service." That is real, pure devotee. He doesn't want even promotion. That is also mentioned now: dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṇanti. Dīyamānam, even Kṛṣṇa says, "Come immediately to Vaikuṇṭha," "Sir, that is for..." Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered, "Whatever you like, you take." "Sir, do not make me a bāniyā (indistinct)." (break) But if anyone wants in exchange of service, then he's not a devotee, he's a bāniyā (merchant).

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Bhūrijana: It's just the emphasis that was given to hari... to chanting. For myself, I know I was off track and I know that in my heart I built up an enmity toward your disciples and thinking that they..., that by their distributing books they were making people angry at Kṛṣṇa and...

Prabhupāda: That is real point. That is real point.

Bhūrijana: That's what I felt. See, when I was in Hong Kong, people I would meet, they used to yell... They'd yell at me, "What have you done to Kṛṣṇa?" Some Indians used to say that. People we'd meet, they'd tell us they see the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees and they hate Kṛṣṇa. I remember one specific time when I was speaking to one businessman who was helping us and...

Prabhupāda: He said that "We hate Kṛṣṇa"?

Bhūrijana: No no. He said that, "Your members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're making people in Australia hate Kṛṣṇa. They make people inimical." Making people inimical to Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They feel threatened simply that we're preaching something that will discourage their sinful way of life. Simply they feel threatened. Not they're hating. Their argument is that because of our strong emphasis on preaching and book distrubtion, they say therefore that the mass of people they have a bad impression of Kṛṣṇa.

Bhūrijana: And also because...

Prabhupāda: Because we are selling books.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...rejected. That is Vedic process.

Hari-śauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy.

Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.

Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.

Hayagrīva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers.

Prabhupāda: That is all defective, unscrupulous.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...come up to us on saṅkīrtana, and they are smoking a cigarette, and they say, "Do you accept Jesus Christ?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: They say, "You cannot be successful unless you accept Jesus Christ like us." But they were smoking.

Prabhupāda: We accept. Rather, you do not accept. Jesus Christ said "Thou shall not kill." We strictly observe that, but you kill. You are not a Christian.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: That there was something (indistinct), one picture (indistinct). There was competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is (indistinct) of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings (indistinct). That one painter he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture. (indistinct). So that is real life. You may paint (indistinct) expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is (indistinct). It is (indistinct). So how the mother can see it? There is (indistinct) being killed. So it is not very easy to (indistinct) cover the mother, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is (indistinct). All (indistinct) in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Sinful. They do not know what is God, they do not know (indistinct) what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, (indistinct) the instruction of Christ, (indistinct) kill Him. Is that religion? And they are showing how He was killed.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Anartha. (break) ...they stop here. No more this material necessities. But he does not know that he cannot live without necessities. That they do not know. They simply beget these false necessities. Just like disease. I do not want disease, but that does not mean I do not want health. (everyone laughs) So these rascals, they are thinking that "We do not want anymore this material world, brahma satyaṁ jagat..." But Vaiṣṇava says "No, you must have the real thing, then you can cease from this unreal necessities. Otherwise after living for some time in brahma satya, then you'll come, "Oh, this is useless. I don't enjoy. Let me go again to open hospital, school, engage in something politics, no work..." But you cannot do. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. We are living entities. We require engagement, necessities. So give up necessities means these rascal necessities. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's sannyāsī, He has no necessity. Why He's crying for Govinda? He has given up the whole world, sannyāsī. And why He's crying for Govinda? That is real necessity. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Govinda necessity. The necessity is Govinda is not alone. There again life, again Vṛndāvana, again gopīs, again dancing, again eating, again everything. That necessity.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. (break) ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, (Sanskrit). (break) ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it the whole stack, everything. "Oh, I've got it free. Let me take it." But the birds, they're under natural law. They know, "Ah, I have finished. I have got my belly filled up. I don't require any more." So God has given everything sufficiently. If every man takes whatever he wants absolutely, then there is no difficulty. That is your complication. But why there should be fight? Father's property of every son. He take as much as he requires. Accept father, his property, and take as much as you require. Don't take more. That is real communism. So where is that communism? Who has it? The material nature, the mother, and God is the father. And we are all children. That's all. Plain truth. (break) ...accept this philosophy?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Very, very congested. Always thousands and thousands of men. If there is any such bomb explosion.... Life is becoming more and more insecure. The advancement of civilization is no relief for these other problems.

Hṛdayānanda: Prahlāda Mahārāja has said that their solution is bringing more problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In order to solve one problem, more problems.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, am I right when I say the only solution is a change of consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real solution. So we shall now go?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Someone can distribute that. Can someone bring those books? (end)

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Okay, okay. You said in the purport that tragedies of life—I'm paraphrasing—tragedies of life such as death of even a close relative are mere incidental occurrences. Is...? But you said earlier that death to you was anything but a mere incidental occurrence, that it was the...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not irresponsible to the death. Death, although we have to meet death, we are making provision that after death we become happy. Happy, of course, for us, even in living condition or dead condition, there is happiness, but it will take time to understand. But taking superficially, death is not very pleasing, so after death, that is mentioned in the Bha.... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), we do not get again a material body. This is final. The material body is the cause of pains and pleasure. So if you don't get the material body, if you remain in your spiritual body, that is real enjoyment.

Richard: But then why do you fear this death of the physical body?

Prabhupāda: No, I do not fear.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So everyone should join this movement and be sure of his activity, result, good result. That is real United Nations—to work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Every, any department, if we work for Kṛṣṇa, then it is perfect. That is sure. And it is open to everyone. Now this American government is giving so much welfare contribution, but still they are not happy. Huge amount is spent in welfare activities, but still they are dissatisfied. Then how you can make them satisfied? The American government is practically giving money to the sufferers, and why they are still suffering? What is the answer?

Jackie Vaughn: It's not clear.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda is saying that even though the American government is giving so much money to suffering people, still the suffering is there, there's no improvement in the condition. So why, what is the cause? What is the answer?

Jackie Vaughn: I think it's all in the theory. We are not making first things first.

Prabhupāda: That means whatever we do, we do in ignorance. You do not know what is the first thing or what to do first. That we are correcting. Here is the first thing. Pour water in the root.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God; whatever He likes, you have to supply. That is God. Why He likes, we cannot question. That is not the business of the servant. So as servant we simply obey the orders. That's all. That is real servant. Is there any instance the servant is asking, "Why you are asking me to supply you this?" Therefore what would be the position of the servant? He would be dismissed. Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. That is very dangerous.

duṣṭā bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitraṁ

bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ

sa-sārpe ca gṛhe vāso

mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ

Duṣṭā bhāryā. If wife is polluted, duṣṭā bhāryā, and śaṭhaṁ mitram, and friend is a hypocrite.... Duṣṭa bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitram. What is that? Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, and servant does not obey, gives answer or, yes, if your master asks, "Give me this," if he says, "Why are you asking?" Such kind of bhṛtya, servant, and polluted wife and hypocrite friend, three, and a snake within the bedroom.... (break) Family means father, mother, wife, children. Generally this is family. So family members are supposed to be all friendly, in one accord, so that family life is peaceful. But sometimes the family members become enemies. So how they become enemies? That is given by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita: mātā śatruḥ, ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. Father is enemy if he's a debtor, he dies a debtor.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prof. O'Connell: The human children often play with their fathers. Is playfulness the proper attitude for...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not play, that is real love. Just like father sometimes becomes a horse, and the child rides over, and father enjoys. There is a story about Prime Minister Gladstone. He was prime minister, so many people come to him. So one man came and the doorman said, "He is now busy. Wait." So he was waiting for one hour. Then he became impatient; he wanted to see what this gentleman is doing. So he saw that he has become a horse, and his grandchild is driving him. So why the prime minister had become a horse to take back his grandchild on the back and enjoy? Is it a horse? This is out of love, enjoying. He was not wasting time. The other visitors were waiting. This is love. So to revive that natural life is the opportunity in human life. We have distributed our love in so many material things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and directly speaks that "You withdraw all these nonsense activities." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). "Try to love Me. Then your life is successful." This is āśliṣya. Personally requested that "Why you are rotting in this material world of birth and death and manufacturing so many ways of life? You give up all this nonsense. Just surrender to Me, you'll be happy." This is natural.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...their achievement, no more death? As soon as you ask this question, matte kara heṭ. Baḍo baḍo baḍo badora(?) baro baro pet laṅkā diṅgaya matte karo heṭ. "Big, big monkey, big, big, belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." What scientific advancement? Do you think there will be no more death? Matte kore heṭ: (?)"Yes, we are trying." Answer them, "What is your achievement?" All achievement will be, remain in your back and you'll have to die. So what you have done, insurance, that you'll enjoy this? You'll be kicked out of the scene at any moment. What you have done for this? What is the answer? Mattaḥ kore heṭ "Yes, we are trying." (laughter) Nonsense, you are trying. And we have to see this nonsense. We are not so fool. And if they say, "What you are doing?" "Yes, we are doing that. How to conquer over death." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti (BG 4.9). That is we are trying. That is real scientific. And what is method? Very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). "Without any doubt, he comes to Me." This is science.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. And he said, "These are all...," what is called? Mythology. Why mythology? Why do you think God like you? God is all-powerful; He can do anything. That is real faith. That means you have no faith. "If God can do which tallies with my activities, then I shall believe." What you are? Nonsense. This is their general argument. How we can believe this? And why not believe this? You are seeing so many wonderful things. I gave this example to another man, that there is a coconut tree. Now find out where is the pipe and pumping so that the water is pushed. Show me. You have no idea that such a high height, how water is going there. And full of water. How the water is transferred there? Show me the pipe and pump. You have got the idea, that with pipe and pump we can raise the water. Where is that pipe and pump? Show me. Every day, every moment, we are seeing so many wonderful things. How you are thinking.... "I am Dr. Frog. Pacific Ocean may be four feet. All right, five feet. Make compromise, ten feet." (laughter) Rascal. If you think for many millions of years, then you'll have no solution. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo (Bs. 5.34). It is not possible in that way. They have no idea of God.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kulādri: They can notice the change in the atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: That is real atmosphere. Sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Mukti means to stay in the original form.

Devotee (1): I've heard that you use the example that spirit has form and therefore the body also has similar form, just as a hand has a form in a glove, it's the hand's similar form. So how can we understand that the trees have a certain form? That..., is there spirit in the form of a tree?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Then how do we explain the transmigration of the soul?

Prabhupāda: This outward is a form. What is the difficulty? Describe.

Pradyumna: Just as this human body has a human form, we say that because this body has a form, the soul also must have form.

Devotee (1): Talking about the transmigration then.

Pradyumna: Just as the glove has a certain form because the hand is shaped like that, the material body of a human has that form because the spirit is in that form? And the tree has that form because the spirit is in that form?

Prabhupāda: Here difficulty is that the form is fixed up. That is not.... Just like Kṛṣṇa appears in so many forms, everything is spiritual. So what do you think?

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Patient is always rascal fool. You cannot expect him to be intelligent. He must agree to the physician's directions. That is intelligence. He must know that he's diseased, he must follow the instruction of the physician. That much will help him. Unless one is rascal, he does not fall sick. As soon as you violate the hygienic principles, you become sick. All commit sinful activities on account of ignorance. So therefore the best advancement of civilization is not to open hospitals, but to give them a lesson that they may not fall sick and go to hospital. That is real...But they do not know. They keep the mass of people in ignorance, they fall sick and they come to hospital and number of hospitals increase, they think it is advancement. This is their idea. So even the Christians, religious persons, they also open hospital to give relief to the patient. So that is not the program. The program is why he should fall sick and come to the hospital? Precaution is better than cure. One comes to the hospital for cure, but why not take the precaution so that he may not have to come to the hospital for cure? That is Vedic civilization.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They were happy. Otherwise they could not fight. They are not Vietnam soldiers, when they are attacked they are going away. They are not like that. They are determined that "I'll either lay down life or gain victory." That is their... They were not afraid of fighting. Do you think they were afraid of fighting? That is real kṣatriya. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. That is real kṣatriya training.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say that they may consider that this is a selfish type of happiness, though. Not taking into consideration...

Prabhupāda: They may think... They are rascals, they cannot think anything. We haven't got to reply all of them. Because they are rascals. They can talk all nonsense. We haven't got to take care of... Just like a child, he's talking so many foolish things. Sometimes we reply, "Yes, yes, we know." But we don't take seriously anything, anything spoken by a child. So these rascals may go on talking so many things, but we haven't got to take care of all of them. We have to do our own business. Let the dog bark on, the caravan will pass. So not that we have to take care of the barking of the dog always.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said we can't understand Brahman unless we understand Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real understanding. And without Kṛṣṇa, if you understand brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, then you fall down.

Kulādri: But it seems then you have to come to the full understanding before it does any good.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means those who are simply trying to understand Brahman, they are not understanding.

Kulādri: Then what does it mean gradual process, gradual advancement in transcendental realization?

Prabhupāda: Gradual process, just like you are here in the sunshine. So if you are intelligent, you'll understand that the temperature in the sunshine and the temperature in the sun globe is different. So Brahman understanding is the lowest stage. Paramātmā understanding little higher. And Bhagavān understanding is complete. That is gradual. And these Māyāvādīs, they do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa. They are satisfied only with understanding Brahman. Therefore they fall down. Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta (SB 10.2.32). Because there is no standing. The impersonal feature, that the sky... Go very high in the sky, you do not see anymore this planet earth, neither you see anything, you'll be mad. Then you will find out how to go back again. You cannot stay there in that condition. Although they say "so'ham," no, you cannot stay there. Just imagine, if you go very high and you do not see any other thing, only sky. Will you be able to stay in that condition? You go in the sea. When you do not find anything, all water, you become very much anxious, "Where is land? Where is land?" And as soon as you have a glimpse of land, island, you become very, "Oh, there is land." So this is impersonal understanding. It is simply imagination, that simply by Brahman understanding he'll be happy. No, that is not possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): Even Brahman has to be understood...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real understanding.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Now wherefrom this fragrance have come?

Devotees: From the earth.

Prabhupāda: Get out this fragrance from earth, you scientist. By Kṛṣṇa's manipulation here is fragrance. Everyone knows it has come from earth. If there is, in the earth, there is no such fragrance, wherefrom it came? So therefore it is there, it is understood, but you get it out.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well, we can take the chemicals and mix them, produce fragrance.

Prabhupāda: Take the chemicals?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes. We can analyze the chemical structure and make...

Prabhupāda: No, the flower has taken directly, without any chemical addition. You do that. It is a fact the flavor is there within the earth, you take the flavor, extract the flavor. Not only this flavor, there are different flavors, all, everything there. There are so many flowers coming out. Huh? Sarva-kāma dugha-mahī. Mahī means earth. Everything's coming out from the earth. But not in your attempt. It is Kṛṣṇa's attempt that He can take out. Out of so many different flavors, everything is there within the earth, but Kṛṣṇa's manipulation takes the different colors, different flavors, different bodies, everything. That is Kṛṣṇa's manipulation.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then follow. If you willfully remain a rascal, that is the difference. Otherwise, if you follow you'll become advanced. Everywhere you'll find Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. He says mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). They explain, "Nature." But they cannot explain what is nature. We can explain. Nature is a system which is being handled by Kṛṣṇa. That is real understanding. Nature, we can see that from nature this flower is coming, this flower is coming. But why not...? They say accidentally. If it is accident, why in the plant of this flower sometimes rose is not coming accidentally? And why from the rose plant not accidentally this flower is coming? So where is the question of accident? You have never experienced such accident. The same plant, the same flower is coming. Where is a proof by accident another flower has come? Where is the proof? So why do they say like that, accident?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Because they don't want to accept God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, accept God or not, where the accident theory comes?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well if they don't give some explanation, then they'll be considered fools.

Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why do you go to variegatedness? Why don't you take the real purpose of religion from Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, "This is real dharma," sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." Why don't you take that? Why are you going to variegated things or varieties under the name of so-called Hinduism? Why do you go there? Why don't you take the advice of the sanātana, Kṛṣṇa? You don't take what is sanātana-dharma, what sanātana God says, and you say, "How we can come to the right point, avoiding so many varieties?" Why you go to the varieties? Take to this one consciousness, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ. Why don't you do that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can people practically do this on a daily basis?

Prabhupāda: How we are doing? Is it not practical? They'll manufacture their own way of religion. And that is... That is not practical. You take this practical system. What is this? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... Where is impracticality? You simply think of Kṛṣṇa, become His devotee, worship Kṛṣṇa. Or just offer a little obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? Why don't you do that? Kṛṣṇa says, "This is the duty. If you do this, you come to Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśaya. "Without any doubt you'll come to Me." Why don't you do that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Why you remain Hindu? Why you remain Muslim? Why you remain Christian? Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa, servant of Kṛṣṇa." Take this.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The so-called Vedantists are bluffers. They do not know what is Vedānta. But the things are going on that people want to be bluffed and the bluffers take advantage of it, and therefore... Veda means knowledge, and anta means end of knowledge. That is the combination of Vedānta. So in the Vedānta the beginning is, Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsāḥ. "Now, in the human form of life, they should inquire about the Absolute Truth." That is the Vedānta philosophy. And what is that Absolute Truth? Sūtra means in aphorism, in small words, a big philosophy is given. That is called sūtra. A little link. So Vedānta-sūtra begins when one is inquisitive to understand the Absolute Truth. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. And it is answered, first question is now about brahma-jijñāsa, inquisitive, inquiry about Brahman. So Brahman is, in nutshell, described: "Brahman means the origin of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). All the Vedas, all the book of knowledge, their business is how to search out God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). So the whole Vedānta is description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But because in this Kali-yuga people will not be able to study Vedānta nicely on account of lack of education, therefore Vyāsadeva personally wrote a commentary on the Vedānta. That commentary is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānam **. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra written by the author himself. The Vedānta-sūtra is also given by Vyāsadeva, and under the instruction of Nārada, his spiritual master... Get this light on. He wrote commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also begins with the same aphorism, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñāh sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). So actually, Vedānta-sūtra is explained by the author of the Vedānta in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So some rascals, without understanding Vedānta, without reading the commentary, natural commentary of the Vedānta-sūtra they are posing themselves as Vedantist. That means they are misguiding people. And because people are not educated, they're accepting these rascals as Vedantists. Actually, the so-called Vedantists, they are bluffers. They are not Vedantists. They do not know anything of the Vedānta. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, what is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is real Vedānta. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsa. That is Vedānta-sutra-bhāṣya. Find out this verse.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Like that. So actually Vedānta-sūtra is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and if we take Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the real explanation of Vedānta-sūtra, then we understand what is Vedānta. And if we take the shelter of the so-called bluffers, then that is not Vedānta. People do not know anything and they can be bluffed and cheated by anyone. That is the... And now they should learn from this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement what is Vedānta and what is the explanation of Vedānta. Then they will be benefited. If we take Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the real commentary on Vedānta-sūtra, then we'll find that in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. In this Kali-yuga, which is the ocean of all faults, there is one benediction, opportunity. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). One can become liberated simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is real Vedānta. And actually it is happening. So they want to be misguided. And there are so many bluffers, they misguide them. What can be done? Otherwise Vyāsadeva has given already what is Vedānta-sūtra explanation. This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Let them read the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They will understand what is Vedānta.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they do not go to the compiler of Vedānta. They go to a rascal. How they will understand Vedānta? Suppose I have written this book. If you cannot understand something, if you come directly to me, that is real. Why do you go to a rascal who has nothing to do with this book? If some rascal claims that "I am Vedanti," so your description should... Why shall I not go to the real compiler of Vedānta. Why shall I go to a rascal? That means they are rascals. They are being cheated. Let them take to Bhagavad-gītā and let them take to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They will understand Vedānta. They're real Vedantist. But these rascals, they're avoiding Bhagavad-gītā and avoiding Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and claiming themselves as Vedantist. So if you go to a cheater you'll be cheated. That is your business.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. The Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman." As Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Kṛṣṇa is also Brahman, I am also Brahman. But He's Supreme Brahman, I am minute Brahman. So my business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is teachings of Lord Caitanya, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya (sic:) nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). So if he engages himself in his original spiritual business, to act as the servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all reformation is done. So that advantage is given in this age: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param... (SB 12.3.51). Reformatory process is meant for purifying him so he becomes mukta-saṅgaḥ. Mukta-saṅgaḥ means liberated from all this bad association of material existence. And he becomes eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. So this is the special advantage.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānaṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief. The difference between the two, that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold. That is one in quality. But god is great and we are minute, small. In that way we are different. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has enunciated acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable, simultaneously one and different. That is real philosophy. So on this philosophy everyone can come if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. Otherwise this is the fact, that the living entity is eternally part and parcel of God. Sanātana. What is that verse? Find out. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). Fifteenth chapter.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you keep him in the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Hindu Muslim or Muslim Hindu? That was going on, "holy war," between Christians and the Muslims. Because both of them will die. (chuckles) And they are engaged in holy war. War, but "holy war." "Holy impiety." Artificial change of "ism" will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what is God. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one more question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question 21. "Are changes visible in Hinduism in its doctrinal content, mode of individual and collective worship as a result of Hinduism's contact with the West?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is not love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are sūraya, actually advanced, they see to the Viṣṇu paramaṁ padam. Viṣṇor aradhanaṁ param. The worship of Viṣṇu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be worshiper of Viṣṇu. And that is Vaiṣṇavism. So Vaiṣṇavism means for everyone or sanātana dharma. That I have already explained. The human.... The living entity is sanātana. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). He is sanātana. God is sanātana. The exchange between God and the living entity is called sanātana-dharma or Vaiṣṇavism. So we are teaching that. We are not teaching Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. We are teaching how to love God. That's all. There is no question of proselytization. It is the natural. We are, by nature we are lover of God. Just like father and son. The love is already there. It cannot be extinguished. The father and son may be separated for many, many years, but when they come together the affection immediately revives. So we are teaching that, that we have got eternal relationship with God and revive it. We are embarassed by establishing artificial relationship with my family, country, and society, and so-called religions. These are all artificial. Real relationship, that "God is great and I am His servant," that is real religion. So we are teaching that thing.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Where he is going now?

Hari-śauri: Ready to arrange the luggage.

Vipina: This is real prasādam distribution.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Vipina: Those are melons, Prabhupāda. Watermelons, sweet melons, they are the best.

Prabhupāda: I take America as my fatherland. India is motherland, and here is fatherland. (laughs) So many fathers. My father was very affectionate to me. He would do everything for me. I lost one father, I have got so many fathers.

Vipina: Jaya. We'd like to keep it that way, Prabhupāda. If you'd let us, we'd like to keep it that way.

Vṛṣākapi: We want to take care of you forever, Prabhupāda.

Vipina: What do you say, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That, everyone appreciated that in India, that the American fathers keeping him. Just like keeping him in cotton. (laughs) They admit that. Where is salt? There are many flies here?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Here is vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. Find out this verse, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). This is Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva must be, and from Him, everything is coming. That is real knowledge.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called? No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many swamis, people came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many swamis, yogis, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: But sometimes the impersonalists, they say, Prabhupāda, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just the beginning platform, that after Kṛṣṇa consciousness then one can come to impersonal realization. They say that in the scriptures only Bhagavad-gītā and a few scriptures teach about Kṛṣṇa but the rest of the Vedas don't even talk about Kṛṣṇa's name. So, therefore, this impersonalism is higher realization, but one comes to it, after bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No. There are Vedas, there are so many names described. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas, then he has not studied Vedas. It is very confidential. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)? If one has studied Veda, but has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then his labor is useless. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). If one is actually jñānavān, then he (indistinct). Śaṅkarācārya said bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. That is real knowledge. But if one says that in the Vedas, you don't find Kṛṣṇa's name, then he has not studied Veda. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The actual purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They have simply labored for nothing.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We think, according to our philosophy, everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and we are all sons. So everyone has the right to use the property of the father. So that consciousness should be spread. This barrier of nationalism is against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why there should be? Actually everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). The sky, the land, the water, they are all creation of God, God's property. But we should not take more than what is allotted to us. That is real life. Otherwise, I have practically studied that there is enough land. Just like in your country, in America, there is enough land, not utilized. They can be properly utilized, and if food grains are produced, there is no question of scarcity of food all over the world. Not only in America—in Africa, in Australia. (break) If we get nourishing food, every one of us, so there is no economic problem.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga. Yoga means how to control the senses. Then I can concentrate my mind towards God realization and self-realization. If my senses are always disturbing, it is not possible to apply my mind for self-realization. That is not possible. Therefore the yoga practice, preliminary practice, is yama-niyama, controlling, niyama, under regulative principles. They are all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literature also. And the ultimate end of yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). By meditation, he always thinks... This morning I was walking near the (indistinct) falls, I told, "This is the best place for practicing yoga." Yoga cannot be practiced in a fashionable way in a big city with (indistinct) meditation. That is not possible. He must be free from everything, and in a secluded place, alone, he should meditate on the Supreme Lord. That is real yoga. Controlling all the senses, all disturbances of the mind. Then it is perfect yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1).

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (2): Your Grace? How can a person tell what his or her occupation or duty is supposed to be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, duty is already prescribed, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So this is the duty. "You give up all other duties, you simply take to Me, surrender unto Me." This is duty. All other duties, they are temporary, and this is real duty, to surrender to God. If you think that "I am giving up all other duties, my family duties, my community duty, my national duty and so many..." Because you may think like that, that "Giving up all duties, I simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious...," as Arjuna was thinking. But Kṛṣṇa gives you assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry, I shall give protection. If you think that by giving up all other duties you'll be sinful, so I give you assurance that I shall give you all protection." It is clearly stated. So this is the only duty, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and become His perfect devotee. This is the only duty.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: "I take away as death." Whatever they are accumulating, everything will be taken away at the time of death. They are simply collecting, accumulating, discovering, forgetting that everything will be taken away at the time of death. Discover something which can check death, there will be no more death. That is real discovery. What do you think?

Indian man (1): It's a question to think about.

Prabhupāda: Because whatever we are discovering, it will be taken away by death. So discover something which will stop death. And that is real discovery.

Indian man (1): But don't you think it will be a bad thing, because there are some bad people in the world, like Hitler and Stalin and others, they may be the first people to use the technology to prolong their life?

Prabhupāda: The thing is, bad or good, everyone will be taken away by death. Is it not a fact? Hitler is no longer existing, neither Stalin nor Gandhi. Gandhi was supposed to be very good man. He's also taken by death, and Hitler is also taken by death. And Stalin also taken. And I'll also, you will be also. So death will take away everyone. There is no doubt about it. Therefore discover something which will stop death. That is real discovery.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall keep it dusty. If our heart is full of dust, cleanse it. That is intelligence. What is this, "My heart is dirty, let it be kept as dirty"? No, if it is dirty, cleanse it. It is the duty of every Indian to understand Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to others. That is real Indian business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that every one of you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. That is the injunction; that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being—not as dogs manuṣya, manuṣya means human—his duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach to the other people for welfare activities. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). We should mark this point, manuṣya-janma. He's not requesting the cats and dogs. So in other words, that those who are not taking, Indians... Bhagavad-gītā is known to everyone, every Indian knows. But if he does not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is not to be counted as human being. Because He says manuṣya-janma haila yāra. If we claim to be human being, born in India, it is our duty to understand the value of life from Bhagavad-gītā and preach this cult to others to do real welfare activities. This is the duty of every Indian. Why Indians are lacking in their duty? They do not understand Kṛṣṇa and they do not understand how to do good to others. Now whatever is done is done. It is time, now that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here, the temple is here, you come, you understand the whole philosophy and distribute. That is your duty. In New York City we can open many temples, provided you come.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is understanding. Arjuna is not a fool. He said, "Whatever You have said, I accept them as truth." That is real understanding. But as soon as you make amendment, then you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). There are so many rascals, they think "I don't believe in this, I don't believe in this." That is not understanding of Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man (3): Does it mean that before we, or anybody, before he at all...

Prabhupāda: Before he, if... First of all he must know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then he will understand that what is Kṛṣṇa. That he will understand from Bhagavad-gītā by this beginning. And at the end Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Lord. So if you know that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord, then whatever He says is correct.

Indian man (3): That means the first thing is to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, and then...

Prabhupāda: Not blindly.

Indian man (3): Not blindly.

Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), a little love for God can save you from the greatest danger of life. That is real love. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you can love with everyone. Just like we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is out of love for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we would have sat down at home and love Kṛṣṇa. Why you are trying to spread this love exchange to others? Because I know or we know that here in this material world, the so-called love exchange is frustrating, and people are being frustrated. So let him love Kṛṣṇa, then we'll be successful. This is our mission. Everyone has got loving propensity. So this child has now love for his mother, for the mother has got... But as soon as the child will grow, the love is finished, he will love somebody else.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

rabhupāda: You shall not expect anything in return. That is real love. Just like this mother is loving child, expecting anything—no, not expecting any return. But she still she gives service. So that is as a little sample of pure love. But here also some... When the child is grown up, if the child is not obedient, the mother practically withdraws love. But in the spiritual world, unconditionally love is there. As it is explained, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām. Marma-hatām: (CC Antya 20.47) whatever you do, I don't mind that but still I love you. That is pure love.

Guest (1): As a mother loves the child in pure love, does that help her to also find the pure love in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like Mother Yaśodā is loving Kṛṣṇa. Nanda Mahārāja is loving Kṛṣṇa. That is pure love.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This, this loving affair with the mother and the son is a perverted reflection of that pure love.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think he's asking a question also that sometimes comes up, that if one loves in this material love, for example one loves a child, or loves humanity, does this help to develop love of God?

Prabhupāda: No. But if you love God. It helps to love the human beings.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Meditating means this subject matter: that I don't want death, why death is forced upon me? That is real meditation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the problems of life are more than simply those which we perceive?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, what is the meditation? Think about something seriously, that is meditation. But if you have no important serious thinking, simply some imagination, how it will help you?

Devotee (1): Excuse me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This evening they are having one convention here, the Democratic National Convention. One of the two big political parties in the city, at one place called Madison Square Garden. And all the television and newspaper people in the whole country will be there. They're beginning at 8 o'clock this evening. So we want to send all the devotees in the temple on saṅkīrtana party there, because we feel that not only will the atmosphere become purified but also all the television cameras and all the newspaper people will interview our devotees and take their pictures, and they will be on television all over the country, simply because...

Prabhupāda: That is good cause.

Devotee (1): So we are requesting if all the devotees can possibly go?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): In that way they can all attend, if we have a big force...

Prabhupāda: At least, let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that translation, the book, will speak how I have translated.

Interviewer: Um hm. I was wondering...

Prabhupāda: You read the books, Then you'll understand. Instead of asking me, you better read the books. That is real understanding.

Interviewer: I was just wondering how he personally got interested or involved, and what his route to his consciousness was.

Rāmeśvara: I see. She's asking about your relationship with your Guru Mahārāja, how you became inspired to start the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and write so many books.

Prabhupāda: These things you can answer. It is not very important things for public.

Rāmeśvara: I think the public always likes to know about the person behind the movement.

Lady Guest: Yes, it helps. People are interested. People are interested in development of a man like you because they relate. And that way they decide to read what you write.

Prabhupāda: First thing is that if you are interested in our book, so, you read our books. You'll understand.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not too much.

Interviewer: At all.

Prabhupāda: He should know that he is different from the car. That is real knowledge. And if he identifies himself with the car, then he's a fool.

Interviewer: Well, can he, is he supposed to care about and honor the body in the physical world...

Prabhupāda: That is already taken.

Interviewer: ...and to see that, see the physical world as important?

Prabhupāda: Suppose if you are utilizing this coat, you are taking care of it, but if you think that you are coat, then you are doomed.

Bali-mardana: If you use the body you should take care of it but if you think that you are the body, then you are doomed, then it is foolishness. But you naturally you take care of the body, but you should still don't identify with it.

Interviewer: Well you know, Your Grace, the spiritual quality is an important part of life of course...

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise the animal. If the man does not understand the value of his spiritual quality then he's no better than the dog. The dog does not know.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: In other words you think people should get away from what they're doing in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is real life.

Interviewer: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Oh! (laughs) (someone comes in?)

Interviewer: That they really shouldn't concentrate so completely on the world.

Prabhupāda: No, no. So long you are in the jail, you have to work according to the principle of the jail but you must know that jail life is not good.

Bali-mardana: You may work within the material world but you have to understand that the purpose is to get out of the material world.

Interviewer: Well, are your Kṛṣṇa members out of the, out of jail?

Prabhupāda: Just like, some of us are working like the hammerman, breaking bricks with hammer, but that does not mean he does not understand. So long one is in the jail, one is not in freedom, he has to work like that by force. But that is not his proper work. He has got a different work outside the jail or in his freedom life.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But the scriptures are the same, the Vedic scriptures are Hindu scriptures.

Prabhupāda: No, Hindu religion... Of course, the scripture is the Vedic principle, but the word is not Vedic. This word Hindu is not Vedic word.

Bali-mardana: Hindu is not Sanskrit, it's just a popular, general term.

Prabhupāda: Vedic, Vedas, Vedas, that is real, the word. But they have taken it in a different way. Actually the "Hindu," this name is given by the neighbor Muhammadans. There is a river called Sindhu. That river is still there, it is now in Pakistan. So outside the border of India, the Muhammadans, they used to call the inhabitants of the neighborhood of that river Sindhu, Hindu. Because they pronounce s as h. So this is the origin. So "Hindu" is a title given by the Muhammadan neighbors. It is not found in the Vedic literature.

Interviewer: I see, I see. That's like most religious names derived quite often out of ridicule or scorn. Like the Quakers, that was originally a title of scorn. And Methodists, they were the methodical ones, that was a title of scorn. And the Baptists were the baptizers.

Prabhupāda: Real Vedic principle is called varṇāśrama. Observing the principle of four varṇas. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. It is a very long science. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇa. And brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. This is called āśrama. So the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma, not Hindu dharma. This is later contribution of the so-called scholars.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Because, just like anything, creation means the mother, the father and the children. That is our practical experience. Without mother, we are nowhere. We are given birth by the mother. So the material nature is the mother. From the material nature, material elements, everything is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, from the land the grass, the worms, and then human being, they are coming. From the air also living entities are coming. So therefore material nature is the mother, and we have come out of the material nature, therefore we are children. Then there must be father, because without father, simply mother cannot give birth. This is science. You cannot deny the existence of God simply by a false argument. This is real argument. The mother is there, material nature, and we are children there. There must be father.

Cline Cross: In England, the Christian Church in recent years or recent decades has been doing very badly and losing support. Your teaching could perhaps provide a substitute for the more traditional type of Christian teaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the science. Therefore I say religion without scientific idea, that is sentiment. It has no value. This is basic principle of religion that the mother is there, the children are there—there must be father. If you say "I do not see what is God," it doesn't matter. Sometimes the child after birth does not see his father. But that does not mean that he has no father, because without father there is no possibility of his existence.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They expect like that?

George Harrison: Well, I don't know. I think the whole world's changing. Somebody said it's the pollution, leaves so much..., there's so much of the oceans now with polluted and with oil on the top, there's not so much evaporation anymore.

Prabhupāda: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.

Gurudāsa: In New York they had one island of refuse floated in to shore. For years they were building up island of refuse, and it floated in, and now no one can go to the beaches.

Prabhupāda: Samosa. Where is samosa? There is only one left?

George Harrison: I'm okay, actually.

Devotee (2): There is sour cream.

George Harrison: I've got plenty, thanks.

Prabhupāda: Prasada, we can eat up to the neck. (laughter) There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?

George Harrison: Yes.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That is real rest.

kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam

adyaiva viśatu me mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ

prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ

kaṇṭhāvarodhana-vidhau smaranaṁ kutas te

(MM 33)

The Mukunda-māla-stotra... There was a big emperor, Samrat(?), Kulaśekhara, emperor Kulaśekhara, he was a great devotee. So he wrote some poetry. Formerly, kings were so advanced, rajarṣi. They are king, at the same time, saintly persons. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2)—this science of Bhagavad-gītā was learned by the rājarṣis. People were happy therefore. The head, or the executive, they were all saintly persons. So this Kulasekhara, he writes in the beginning of his poetry, "Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam. The paṅkaja means lotus flower. So Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is just like lotus flower. The lotus flower has stem down, and the swans, they take pleasure to go down the water and entangled by the stem. Have you seen their pleasure? Yes. That is their great sporting, to be entangled by the stem and come out, in this way, go deep, this is their sporting. So this Kulasekhara is praying, "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, let my swan of mind be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet." Kṛṣṇa tvādīya-pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam adyaiva: "Immediately"—viśatu—"let enter." Who? Adyaiva viśatu me, "My," mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ, "my mind, which is just like a swan." So why adyaiva, immediately? He says that prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye, "At the time of death," prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ, "when the physical condition of the body will be in disorder," kapha, pitta, vayu will not be in order.... Prāṇa-prayāṇa-samaye kapha-vāta-pittaiḥ kaṇṭhāvarodha, "At that time I shall not be able to speak. I'll 'ahn, ahn,' but that's all. So I may not be able to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Better I am now in good health, so let my mind be entangled in the stem of Your lotus feet." Very nice poetry.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: This is religion. This is religion. So this religion is applicable to everyone, any human being. Why do you bring Christian or Hindu or Muslim, or...? Everyone has to accept that. That is real religion. And this is not religion, "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not religion. That is most unscientific. That is not religion. Religion means scientific understanding of the supreme controller. So now if you accept the supreme controller, then if you violate something, you must be punished. Immediately you have to accept. As soon as you accept there is supreme controller, so immediately as you violate the laws of the supreme controller, immediately you are punished. That is nature's law.

Mike Robinson: Can we, can you say a bit more of that, just for the tape? You were saying that religion is obeying the supreme controller.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Religion means to understand the supreme controller and obey. That's all. Just like good citizen means he understands the government and obeys the laws of government. That's all. Good citizens. What is the difference between bad citizen and good citizen? The bad citizen means he doesn't care for the government—"Ah, I don't care for"—that is bad citizen. That is irreligious. If you are bad citizen, then you are irreligious. If you are good citizen, then you are religious.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins. So they do not know how these subtle laws of material nature is working to give us opportunity to become master according to our idea, false idea. And we are actually suffering, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as trees, sometimes as dog. So the mastership cannot be attained. That is not possible. In the false idea to become master we are becoming slaves of the laws of material nature. This is real position, and that is suffering.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Very light. In the morning you can give them this puffed grains, then fruits and milk, very good breakfast. I mean to say all self-dependent. Yes. We should save time, as much for this purpose, for chanting, discussing grantha. Not for any personal so-called comforts. We can sit down anywhere on the grass here, and whatever available we make our food. This is the idea. Life will be sublime. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. That is real business.

Bhagavān: They are spending so much money for entertainment in material life, but no one is becoming enlivened. But this kind of discussion is so fresh. For a show they pay five dollars, to go to one movie for one hour, two hours.

Prabhupāda: That is another artificial agitation of the mind. It has, there is no practical benefit. Just see how many varieties of flowers, colorful. Can they make such colorful? "Yes, we're trying to overcome nature. Wait millions of years." And what about not? "Now you sleep." (laughter) These rascals are misleading other rascals. And they are, "Oh, a scientist!" Very misleading civilization. We shall appreciate in every flower the craftsmanship of Kṛṣṇa, how He has done nicely. Unnecessarily puffed up by so-called advancement of knowledge, misleading themselves and misleading others. Who is that old man comes? Some old man?

Bhagavān: He's a life member from Belgium.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has come from Belgium? In the last German war, the first attempt of attack was on Belgium. And within few hours, Belgium finished, conquered.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Senses are imperfect always. Therefore we have to develop the perfect senses. That is spiritual. Just like you are working with your hands, this is physical. But this hand is not working. The spirit soul within the body, he is working. As soon as he is out, what is the value of your hand? When the spirit soul is out of your body, then I am asking you, "Mr. Ali, Mr. Ali, get up." Who is hearing? Your ear is there, but you cannot hear, finished. Therefore the spiritual senses, that is real sense. Do you follow what I say? You have got ear, but when the spirit soul is out of your body, in spite of possessing this physical ear, you cannot hear.

Ali: I believe in this one because when I dream...

Prabhupāda: No, believe or not believe, these are facts, that physical senses are not absolute.

Ali: That's exactly what I mean. It's so obvious.

Prabhupāda: Physical senses not absolute; it is the spiritual senses that acts through the physical instrument and utilize it.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: These are the different stages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example, just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything. But when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually, there will be no more material activity. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. That is the process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.

Ali: Is it necessary to get to know the true self before knowing God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God means spirit, supreme spirit. If you cannot understand what is spirit, then how you'll understand God? You must know what is spirit, what is matter, and when we have little understanding of the spirit, then we can make progress spiritually.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: This was just only a presentation of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, presentation. We are everywhere in that platform, but we have to transcend this platform. Then we come to the spiritual platform. Then spiritual knowledge begins. And if we stick to this platform, then there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge, but try to understand spiritual knowledge. That is the position. To try to understand spiritual knowledge from material platform, but when you actually come to the spiritual platform, then spiritual knowledge is perfect. Just like another example, just like water. Theoretically you learn swimming. That is not swimming. You get into the water and practically learn swimming. Then it is swimming. Theoretical knowledge, that you put yourself in the water, you move your hands like this, move your legs like this, that is good. But it will be... Just like in the airplane before starting, they give so much instruction. It is going on really. But when actually the airplane is danger, that will be practical. Is it not? They are giving so much instruction, who cares for it? (laughter) They're talking and people are hearing. But when it will be practically demonstrated, that is real life. So, spiritual knowledge, understanding theoretically, it is little good, but when it is done practically, then it is reality.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Law given by the state, that is law. If you create a law at home, that is not law. Dharma means what is ordained by Kṛṣṇa, God, that is dharma. And other things, that may be temporary. You can create some laws within your family, but that is not generally applicable to others. But when it is given by the government, that is real law. That is applicable to all people. When you go out to the street, you have to abide by the laws of the state, the light. As soon as there is red light, you have to stop. At home you may not make such rules and regulations. But that is within your home, that is not general. Similarly, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66) means what you have made at your home, concoction, give up all these dharmas. Here is the real dharma, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is dharma. Everyone has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa or God. So that is real dharma.

Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that what it means in the Bhagavad-gītā when Kṛṣṇa says that we have to go śruti-vipratipannā, we have to go beyond just hearing about these different...?

Prabhupāda: Find out that verse.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Mr. Sharma is a devotee. He's a wonderful person. He's taken to spiritual life and is very serious about it. Mr. Sahani is also very serious, he's...

Prabhupāda: No, every Indian is a devotee. This is the privilege of taking birth in India. There is... Naturally he's devotee, and if he takes little education, take advantage of the Vedic instructions, then his life is successful. In the śāstra it is said even the demigods, they desire to take birth in India because this facility is there in India. This facility, the land is so sanctified that anyone who takes the body from this land, he's born sanctified. Now, if he further takes advantage of the Vedic knowledge, then his life becomes successful. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that anyone who has taken birth in India, make his life successful, and then preach this knowledge to the outside world. The exact word,

bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari 'kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Outside India they are in darkness. So it is the duty of the Indian to make his life perfect and spread his spiritual knowledge to the outside world. That is real welfare activity in the human society. That we are trying to do. Unfortunately, they have not taken very seriously what glorious activities for India we are doing. They do not understand.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: No, those who doing some meditation that are Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: No, they are also asuras. They do not know what is the meaning of meditation. That is psychology. It is not meditation. Or some medical treatment. Meditation is different, real meditation.

Devotee: What is... What is real meditation?

Prabhupāda: Real meditation is to find out the Supersoul within the core of the heart. That is real meditation. God is situated in everyone's heart, so the yogis, they try to find out the Supersoul within the heart. That is real yogi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginam. This is real yogi, trying to contact the Supersoul. They are searching after the God in His all-pervading feature. But, ah, some of them, they want to become one. That is asuric. One with God, that is asuric. Because they are being defeated by God, so therefore they want to become God to stop this defeat. That is asuric. Therefore they will never be able to be, but they are trying for it.

Jñānagamya: It is the highest blasphemy.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jñānagamya: It is the highest blasphemy, isn't it? If one says, "I am God."

Prabhupāda: No, highest ignorance, highest rascaldom. (laughter) Yes. How one can become God? If one can become God, that means the such-and-such, he was God. Then how he has become dog? That is another rascaldom, ambition.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Bīja, bīja. Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. You sow the seed, there will come out a tree, and from that tree there will be big trunk and you cut the tree, then you get wood.

Hari-śauri: That's all right, that's agreed.

Prabhupāda: But that is real, that is intelligence, that wherefrom the tree has come.

Harikeśa: But this has been going on eternally.

Hari-śauri: But the material elements are there, and they just evolve into different shapes and forms.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but the original creation is there.

Harikeśa: No, no, it has eternally been going on.

Prabhupāda: Eternally is going on, but the process is here. Eternally this man is born, that does not mean you were not born by your father. You deny your father, eternally born. You must have particular knowledge. Don't talk like that. Eternally, eternally father gives birth, that's a fact. But there must be father. Eternally father is giving birth to a child, that's a fact. Eternally birth is going on, that does not mean denying the father. The father is the cause. Anything law, that is going on eternally, there is no question of... Nature's law is going on eternally. That is a fact.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: You say here in the purport, "Before surrendering one is free to deliberate on this subject as far as the intelligence goes."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got your intelligence. God has given you intelligence. Now you deliberate. But if you... A devotee, without using my intelligence, I surrender. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). Immediately you become the greatest mahātmā. If you simply believe in Kṛṣṇa, "What my nonsense intelligence...? What Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do. Bas." Your life is perfect. And if you think still that "I am more intelligent (than) Kṛṣṇa, let me deliberate and consider," then you remain rascal. You cannot be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), you take it. That is real intelligence. That is real intelligence. Just like obedient son, my father says to do it. "All right, I shall take it, although it does not appeal to me." That is good son. Natural guardian, father, if son understands "My father or mother, whatever they will say, it is surely for my good. They cannot be cheater." So intelligent son will take "Yes, my father says, I'll do it. That's all. Never mind it does not appeal to me." That is intelligence, real intelligence. "Because I am immature, my father knows my good, he says 'My dear son, do it. It will be nice.' I'll do it." That's all. Without any objection. That is intelligence. That is real intelligence. But the father gives the freedom, "Now you deliberate." But it is my duty, when father says, what is deliberation? I'll accept. That is intelligence. And if you do not do it, then you come to that karma, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). God offers, but the rascal, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, will not do it. They'll suffer. Go on, continue to suffer. He'll not do it, all right, go on, suffer. Next life if he becomes dog, the ear is there, but he'll not be able to hear what Kṛṣṇa says: finished. That chance is finished. This is going on. The dog has ear, big ear, bigger than me. But he cannot hear what is Kṛṣṇa saying. That is not possible.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So whatever you like, you can do. Kṛṣṇa says that you have got intelligence. "You consider, I have spoken to you. Now you use your intelligence and do whatever you like." Kṛṣṇa does not deny your intelligence. There is no meaning. You have got your intelligence. That is your... Training, you take Kṛṣṇa's training. If you don't take, then you remain in your own training. Kṛṣṇa is training you, He says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), but if you don't take His training, then you remain in your own training. Who objects? Remain a rascal. Who objects? Continue to become a rascal. What can be done? That yathecchasi tathā kuru is already said. You use your intelligence. If you prefer to remain rascal, you remain. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "Don't use your intelligence." What does He say? But if you are actually intelligent, then you'll think that, "Who can be more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa? Let me take His advice." That is real intelligence. Why shall I use my tiny intelligence? That is real intelligence.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Guest: They are already traced out. So we come here.

Prabhupāda: No, you come and preach. The country is going to hell, the human society is going to hell for misguidance. These rascal leaders, they're going to hell themselves and they're leading others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These fools and rascals are leading, they are going to hell, and they are taking the followers to the hell. This is going on. Stop this. At least in India. Save. That is real para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Para-upakāra. Our India is not meant for exploiting others. Doing good to others, that is India's mission. Our teachers, our ācāryas, do not teach us "Go and exploit others and bring money"—British Empire. This is not India.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Guest: In other words, vairāgya is a by-product of bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated,

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

(SB 6.1.15)

Vairāgya is to be practiced, but bhakti is so strong, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā, simply by bhakti, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa. Vairāgya immediately comes. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. If actually one is pure bhakta, then everything material finished. That is real bhakta. Now I have got some bhakti and some material desire also. That is not bhakti. That is markaṭa-vairāgya. That does not mean that I shall stop bhakti. No, you take bhakti to the principle, to the regulative principle, then automatically vairāgya will come. The vairāgya is not coming, that means you have not been a pure bhakta. That is adulteration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is bhakti. And because there is not anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), it is adulterated.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will maintain. We can utilize it properly.

Jayapatākā: And we'll have British pūjārīs. For the glory of Queen Victoria.

Prabhupāda: Victoria. Let them send. Tell them that we shall bring. Victoria has... Let them send to worship Victoria with prasādam of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is real Victoria Memorial.

Jayapatākā: That is putra. (kīrtana in the background throughout this conv.)

Prabhupāda: Yes, great grandson. Putra is great... The putra was that Edward Seventh.

Jayapatākā: No, but to lift from hell. When she gets prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Pun-nārakāt trāyate iti putra.(?) Victoria died in 1903. There was great function, and this building started in 1903, and it was finished in 1922.

Jayapatākā: After her death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Kurgeon's plan... Lord Kurgeon wanted that let there be asking of India from the family of Victoria. He gave this plan. But this Parliament did not want that Englishman shall make India home. Then his interest will be in India. Just like America. Englishmen, as they made America their home, they declared independence. Australia. As soon as you make a home, then the more interest will be in India. Washington was Englishman. Was he not? Washington.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is real religion.

Harikeśa: "Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real... That is translated in Bengali,

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

(Cc. madhya 22.107)

Now I have, now I, naṣṭo mohaḥ, now my illusion is over (Sanskrit) That is (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa gives you liberty, whatever you like you do. But when you come to the conclusion, "No, I shall do what you say," that is perfection. I can do whatever I like. That liberty is there. But if I accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, that is bhakti. Find out that verse, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Free means desire should be purified. That means desires should be to render service to the Lord. That is real purification. The example is given, just like gold. There are impurities. That impurities, you cannot cleanse it simply by washing. You have to put into the fire. When it is melted then automatically all the dirty things are gone. His natural position is part and parcel of God, to render service to God. So unless he takes up that thing, there is no question of desirelessness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is demanding, "Surrender." And as soon as he surrenders, then material desires become vanquished. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Otherwise, the... He cannot rectify one desire by another desire. That is not possible. Then it will produce another desire.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mirage. There is no water. It appears there is water, and the animal goes forward and it goes forward, it goes forward. So this material world is like that. Ask anybody, any so-called successful. Unless he's an ass, nobody will say that this is very comfortable. So best thing is to become niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhāgavata-bhajana... This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. Bhāgavata-bhajana means niṣkiñcana. You make nothing this material world. That is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so long I'll make this material world something, then I'll suffer. Best thing is make it... Just like Draupadī. Draupadī, when she was grabbed in the assembly and Duryodhana and Karṇa wanted to make her naked. So generally woman, if you try to make her naked she'll try to save herself. So she was trying to save herself and when she thought, "There is no way. My husbands are here. They are not helping, and..." So cloth is being supplied by Kṛṣṇa, but how long I shall? No, before Kṛṣṇa helping, she was trying to help herself. But when she found that it is not possible, then she did not try to save the cloth. She said, "Kṛṣṇa, save me!" Two arms. You have seen the picture. And then Kṛṣṇa supplied cloth. So it is, "Go on, yes, Duḥśāsana, you go on. You try to make her naked. I'll supply." So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, that one should, if one is serious about bhagavad-bhajana, he should take it, whole material world, as nothing. Sometimes I think, I made nothing this material world, and again retired in Vṛndāvana.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-mārga is enough. Bhakti-mārga means it includes everything. Without jñāna, there is no bhakti. The jñāna is called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20); that is real jñāna. If you... Aiye. If you understand your position, then it is jñāna. If you do not understand your position, then where is jñāna? Do you follow? Therefore Bhagavān says, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When... So long you are ajñāna, in ignorance, you cannot be happy. You cannot be happy. But when you are in jñāna, then you'll be happy. That is the symptom of becoming jñānī. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ātmā becomes very happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any lamentation and hankering. There are two things in this material world. We are hankering after something which we do not possess, and we are lamenting for something which we possessed and we have lost. This is the disease, material disease. So when one comes to the platform of jñāna, then he has no more such disease, hankering and lamenting. Here the whole world is going on, lamenting and hankering. So brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) means na śocati na kāṅkṣati and samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. And here, so long we are on the material platform, we are not samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. We are thinking, "You are different from me; I am different from you. My interest is first." You are thinking your interest is first and so on, so on. So not samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. But when you become actually jñānī, brahma-bhūtaḥ, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When you are in distress, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, prasannātmā, then bhakti begins. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). So bhakti is not so easy thing.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom he has drawn? He has speculated only, like a rascal. That's all. Wherefrom he got this thing? He has said that "It is my speculation." Speculation is no knowledge. You can speculate in your own way. Knowledge gathered from the authority, that is real knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) We have published even in Chinese language. European.

Indian man (8): With your comments or...?

Prabhupāda: No, comments means to explain the original verse.

Indian man (8): You have explained also in that copy?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (8): From where we can get, sir?

Prabhupāda: You can get from our temple here. Or from the pandal. (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I go in a park. There is nice tank, reservoir of water, very decorated. And if I think, "There is no proprietor," is it not my foolishness? There must be one proprietor, but I do not know him. That is real sense. Similarly, everything has got proprietor. Why the sea and the land, the so many other things, why there is no proprietor? This is foolishness.

Dr. Kneupper: I don't understand how this relates to distinguishing who are the true teachers...

Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. Everyone is foolish now. You cannot distinguish who is thief and who is not thief. (Bengali) If you study everyone you will find everyone is rascal at the present moment.

Dr. Kneupper: But surely there are some who are...

Prabhupāda: Some must be there. There is no doubt about it. But they are so in minority. Who will hear about them? "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is rascal. If somebody is intelligent, who cares for him? Just like people laugh at me that I am talking of God. I am not only talking. I am writing so many books. My only endeavor is to understand God, that's all. There is no sectarian. And I am selling my books all over the world. So not that everyone is foolish. They're trying to understand my presentation, big, big scholars, big, big philosophers. Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: "Every living entity is My part and parcel. Every living entity is begotten by Me. I am the father." So how you can make discrimination from one son to another? That is foolishness. You cannot expect by pleasing one son the father will be happy. But if you bring something to the father and pay him, or some food, "Sir, it is for your sons," then he'll be pleased. He'll distribute the foodstuff to his sons. But if you take care one of the sons and don't take care of the other son, the father will never please. Very... That is not the way of pleasing the father. That is foolishness. You may say that "I am taking care of the best son," but to a father, either the best son or the lowest son, the same. Father does not make any..., "Because this is best son, he should be satisfied and the worst sons should be neglect." Father does not make. Father will like better that "You take care of my worst son first." And besides that, to take care of the human society, it is also bogus. Nobody can take care. There are so many problems in the human society how you can take care? But the real problem is—that is for everyone—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Either he is animal or human being or demigod or big man or small man or rich man or poor man, a learned man, foolish man, these problems are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So if you take care of these problems, how to save them, all of them, from these four problems, that is real service. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Otherwise temporary—"I am hungry. You give me some relief"—but that relief is temporary. I'll become again hungry. And if I come to you twice, thrice, you'll be disgusted. Neither you can. There are so many hungry men. But if with a view to solve his all problems of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, if you take care of him, that is the best service.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: These are the bhagas, opulences. One who possesses all these opulences, He is God, Bhagavān. Asty arthe vatup.(?) So all opulences. God is not shortage of opulence. All opulences. All the riches. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). This is God. He is the proprietor of everything. So unless you accept this formula, how you get conception of God? God is not a proprietor of three bighās of land. Here is God, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. That is God. God is not limited. He is unlimited. I can say I have got lakh of rupees, you can say you have got crore of rupees, but God says, "I am the proprietor of all the riches." That we cannot say. That is God's wealth. And because He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer, supreme enjoyer, bhoktā. But we are manufacturing different bhoktās; therefore there is controversy. If we accept "God is bhoktā; we are simply dependent on Him," then the whole question is solved. The United Nation is the... (break) Yes. God says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He never said, māṁsaṁ din māṁ māṁsam.(?) (laughter) If you are God conscious, then you must give. Suppose you are here. If I invite you, then I'll ask you, "Sir, how can I serve you?" If you say, "Give me this kind of food," then that is real service. And you do not like something, and if I say, "Oh, this flesh is very nice. You take it," is that service? God demands this. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. So we are God's servant. We are giving with these groups of food. And after He's eating, we are taking. We are servant. We cannot say, "My dear master, I like this flesh. You take it." That is not service. So therefore fool has to do everything because God wants it. And if you say, "God is nirākāra. He has no mouth, no head, tail," then you can manufacture. But here God says.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: You are different from the body. You are different from the body. You are soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body is temporary, you are eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are nityaḥ śāśvata. You are never killed even after the destruction of the body. That should... That is real understanding, that I am not this body. After annihilation of this body, I shall continue. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). You should know that you are eternal part and parcel of God. God is eternal. Just like gold and a small particle of gold, both of them are gold. A small particle of gold, it is also gold, but not equal to the gold mine. That is real understanding. And because you are little gold...

Mr. Malhotra: But potentiality?

Prabhupāda: Potential different, because a lump of gold and a small particle of gold, the value is not the same. Gold it is quality, but not the value the same. That you cannot say.

Mr. Malhotra: Qualitative it is gold, but...

Prabhupāda: But quantity it is different. God is all-pervading. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is all-pervading, He is in everyone's heart. Can you live in everyone's heart? Can you know what I am thinking? Then how you can become God?

Mr. Malhotra: Well there are...

Prabhupāda: There are fools, rascals. There are others. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.

Guest (1): That's true. Now in the British official records which they are publishing their secret papers of twenty-five years, that knowledge is very clearly that it was this armed fight of Indian National Army which convinced the British that they could not rule India with the Indian soldiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.

Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.

Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."

Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...

Prabhupāda: And in politics, might is right.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr.Patel: You are firing everyone, so they run away. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What can be done? This is real position.

Dr. Patel: Only I am a fool, not running away. (laughter) He says, Prabhupāda, "You rascals..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone may be a fool, but if he continues to remain a fool, that is very bad. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: A fool is a fool always. He cannot change his...

Prabhupāda: More or less everyone of us, we are fool, mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa has stated mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). He has chastised like anything. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān (BG 16.19). So anyone who's not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is within these categories: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Indian movement, but na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They are not taking seriously. That is the position. It is our movement. Kṛṣṇa came in India and because India is so glorified place, puṇya-bhūmi, even the demigods they desire. Not India, this planet, Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly, the whole Bhāratavarṣa means whole planet. Anyway, for the time it is now minimized. So it is not ordinary land. So our men, they are not interested in such great movement. How much regrettable it is. And who are they? Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If you speak the truth, then you take the quotation of Kṛṣṇa. Now every Indian should take part in this great movement. Every Indian. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: More or less everyone of us, we are fool, mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa has stated mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). He has chastised like anything. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān (BG 16.19). So anyone who's not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is within these categories: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Indian movement, but na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They are not taking seriously. That is the position. It is our movement. Kṛṣṇa came in India and because India is so glorified place, puṇya-bhūmi, even the demigods they desire. Not India, this planet, Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly, the whole Bhāratavarṣa means whole planet. Anyway, for the time it is now minimized. So it is not ordinary land. So our men, they are not interested in such great movement. How much regrettable it is. And who are they? Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If you speak the truth, then you take the quotation of Kṛṣṇa. Now every Indian should take part in this great movement. Every Indian. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

It is para-upakāra. India's business is para-upakāra. India's business is not exploitation. That is Indian. And para-upakāra means not that daridra-nārāyaṇa bhojana, no. Para-upakāra means to give him knowledge, for want of which he is suffering. That is real...

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke

jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

prakṛti-sthāni karṣati

(BG 15.7)

This is his real suffering. He's part and parcel of God. Qualitatively, he's as good as God, but he's suffering. Why he's suffering? Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). He has come to this material world, prakṛti, and or mental concoction he's creating his plan and struggling for existence. This is real suffering. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save him from real suffering. That Indians should take very seriously and join this movement, and para-upakāra, people need it all over the world. Otherwise, why these young boys, they have joined me? They are finding something, relief by this movement. Otherwise, what business he has got to join with an Indian, poor Indian. I went to their country with forty rupees, that's all.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All right. So, sab bhārata-varṣī, young men, jitna hai. (Hindi) movement (Hindi) seriously. It is not ordinary movement. Cheating movement naiye. This is real movement. Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa is speaking, what Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking, that is not cheating. That is real solution of the problem. So we have taken the business of Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So every intelligent person, intelligent young man... Now we have got... We have got everywhere, but especially now in Bombay—it is important city—we have constructed this. We can keep at least five hundred, six hundred men in these buildings. But who is coming? Nobody's coming.

Dr. Patel: If they all come then it will be difficult for you.

Prabhupāda: Then let them come first of all. (laughter) There is no "if." There is sufficient place. Come. But nobody's coming. They want to see, "Let these white men come and we see." That's all. "We see the fun." This is going on. They are coming. They are disgusted. But we are not disgusted. That is the difficulty. Therefore I was speaking to this boy, "You are Englishman, you have come." It's a problem now in Māyāpur, here. And the government is after them as soon as three months pass. "Get out, get out, get out, get out." Then how shall I conduct my business? A big, big establishment. This is another problem. But Kṛṣṇa is doing His own business. But practically seeing. This is India's business.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sir, Śaṅkarācārya has made so many abstructs (obstructs?) for this bhakti. And I mean to follow it...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I'm talking of Kṛṣṇa. There are many other talkers. We are concerned because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means whatever Kṛṣṇa says, we accept. That is our philosophy. We may be fools and rascals, doesn't matter. But we accept what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Like a child, he's a child, he may be a fool. But when the father says, "My dear child, this is called microphone," and if the child says, "This is microphone," that is correct. Because he takes the word of the father who knows things. He may be child. So our business is like that. We don't claim ourself to be very learned, very advanced. We are fools and rascals. (break) "How can I become guru?" One may say. "I am not so learned, I am not so..." "No, no, you haven't got to bother. Still you can become guru." "How?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, then you become guru. That's all. So our business is that. We are guru not that because we are very learned, so-called Vedāntist. No. We are lowest of the lowest. But we are faithful to the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no other business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has ordered, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. Very easy. And that is being effective. Now because I am carrying these words of Kṛṣṇa throughout the whole world, perhaps I have done the best service than the combined so much Vedāntists. All the Vedāntists of India could not do that. That's a fact. How it has become possible? Because we are simply speaking what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. That's all. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa... That's all. I do not claim that I am Sanskrit scholar, I am this big man, that man, no. Whatever books I have written, only about this-Kṛṣṇa. In our book in every page you will find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. My Guru Mahārāja, if we used to write some article, so we wanted to show him how it is written. So he was very busy. So somebody would read and Guru Mahārāja would say, "How many times he has said 'Kṛṣṇa'?" (laughter) If he finds that in every page there is Kṛṣṇa, it is all right. That's all. (laughter) So we are making Vedāntist, "How many times he chants Kṛṣṇa?" If he chants always Kṛṣṇa, yes, he's Vedāntist. That's all. Bas. Because śāstra says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). That is being effective. These boys, their forefathers or their father, grandfather never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no question of Vedānta. That is my point. (Hindi) That is real Vedānta. And the Vedānta says also... If you actually read Vedānta, what is the beginning of Vedānta? Boliye? What is the beginning?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Bhāgavata-dharma.

Prabhupāda: No, this is real dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma is real, Bhagavān. Bhāgavata-dharma means in a relationship with Bhagavān. So if you do not know Bhagavān then what is this knowledge? That is the defect. All dharmas, there may be Christian dharma, Hindu dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Ask any one of them, "Do you know Bhagavān?" "Zero." "Nirākāra." Nirākāra means zero. When you come to the right point, zero. No substance. Therefore they have got this prayer, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. This is going on. Śūnyavādi and nirviśeṣa. Nirākāravādi. We say... There are so many points. We say that "the Supreme Father," the Christians say. So how the Supreme Father can be nirākāra? We have got experience, my father has ākāra. His father has got ākāra, his father has got ākāra. So if you go to the Supreme Father, now how He is nirākāra? I may not have seen my great grandfather but that does not mean he's nirākāra. So I may not have seen God but if God is Supreme Father how he can be nirākāra?

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga, chanting, dancing there will be. They can join.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: But they cannot practice. They cannot sit down like this, the women. They'll be tired. This is real practice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think even the men...

Prabhupāda: Yogāsana. Yogāsana, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's so then we can show them, "See this yoga is...," because it appears a little difficult, it is the best form of yoga. It's not something easy that you can just do in one second.

Jagadīśa: So what's the conclusion?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They will sit together.

Jagadīśa: So he says... He thinks the conclusion is that the women will be in the class.

Prabhupāda: There, but in plain dress. Yes, man must be there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plain dress or if they wear dresses, they can have pant-kurtā pajamas.

Prabhupāda: Why pant?

Hari-śauri: They can wear a long robe. That's better, like one of those complete robes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, long robe.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead, simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani (BG 9.3). Who can understand this? (Hindi) to return (Hindi) to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. (Hindi) If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death. Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar (pig) position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that. In the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar (Hindi) There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my, this suar?" (laughter)

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Begin when one who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. Begin there.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva...

(BG 4.34)

Who has seen actually Kṛṣṇa, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Kṛṣṇa, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You do not know where you are going. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.

Indian man: For spreading this movement in India, are you hopeful it will be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are sincere. Those who are after jugglery, magic...

Indian man: They will not come.

Prabhupāda: They will be cheated.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Soul. Spiritual body is now covered with the material body. So anything material, that will not exist. So body is finished; then he has to find new body. Just like the dress is old; it is finished, you take another dress. And when you haven't got to take dress, or this material body, and you remain in your spiritual body, that is called mukti. That can be achieved only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). If you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness then it is possible; otherwise not. Tyaktvā deham. Everyone has to give up because this body will be old, and one has to give it up. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), he doesn't accept any more material body. Then? What does he...? He's finished? No, he's not finished. Mām eti. He becomes eligible to go back home back to Godhead, and there he dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is real mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Anyathā rūpam. Now this rūpa is not spiritual, it is material. And mukti means when he gives up this material body and no more accepts any material body, he is transferred to the spiritual world to play with Kṛṣṇa, to dance with Kṛṣṇa, to talk with Kṛṣṇa. That is real... Paramaṁ siddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). (break) And so long one is the material things, he... The lowest stage is the karmīs, the little higher stage, jñānī, and little higher stage, yogi. And the highest stage? Bhakti-yogī.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Bhakti. No matter what path you follow, without bhakti it is incomplete.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot go to God...

Yogi Amrit Desai: No, without bhakti, no.

Prabhupāda: No. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Kṛṣṇa never says, "By karma, jñāna, yoga one can achieve Me." Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. So unless you take to bhakti, a little advancement it may be, but that is material.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

(SB 1.2.8)

Śrama eva hi kevalam. What is the profit? (Hindi) Suar. Pigs. These are the natural examples. (Hindi) Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). Just purify your existence, that tapasya. Then you'll get... Yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29). That is real yogic perfection. Satyānande cid-ātmani. (Hindi) So if you have taken the bhakti-yoga system, do it nicely. You'll get success very quickly. Otherwise, śrama eva hi kevalam. So why should we waste our time, simply satisfied with the labor?

Trivikrama: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (guests leave) This is Japanese?

Trivikrama: Chinese. I'm in China now.

Prabhupāda: In China proper?

Trivikrama: No, no. But that is from China proper.

Prabhupāda: So what is the news?

Trivikrama: We have distributed about 2,500 now of Chinese Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Out of five thousand.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: Now we are in the process of making a brochure so that we can present to trusts and foundations for bigger donations for the farm project.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. They have amassed money. Let them spend for this village organization. This is real Gandhi's program. He wanted this village organization. But because they manufactured their own way, it was not successful. But if we follow this principle, it will be successful, without any doubt. These big, big āśrama... Gandhi's āśrama is vacant. No. They are getting money, but they have no such program.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It must be, because there is no solid program. There is no solid program, simply imagination.

Dr. Patel: No. Because the followers...

Prabhupāda: How there will be followers? If there is some program, then there will be followers.

Dr. Patel: He wanted to defend the commoners. He wanted to defend the order (indistinct). But he unfortunately died.

Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. But (Hindi). If you do something tangible, then you will live. And if you do something fictitious, then with your death everything is gone. (Hindi) But here the whole population is duṣkṛti. They are kṛti, but they are doing something wrong: duṣkṛti. How? Prapanna prapa jante mām. This is a miscon..., mischievous activity. Because he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, whatever he has done, it is all mischievous. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Why he has done mischievous activities, mūḍha? The only test is, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, whatever he does it is all mischievous. So immediately go and you'll see.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is it possible to stop it? Or young men, if he says "No, no, I'm not going to..." but everyone wants that. Young man does not want to become old man, but by nature's law he has to become.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

So the idea is that after losing our own culture, we have become set of fools. This is the real conclusion. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We have become so lowest of mankind and mūḍha and full of sinful activities that we cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa says. This is real position. I am not speaking—Kṛṣṇa says. This is the sign. If one does not hear Kṛṣṇa, then he must be grouped in these categories: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. What is the value of their so-called education if they cannot understand the simple truth, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? What is the value of this education? Today I may be very big man, but I do not know that there is dehāntara. And what kind of deha I am going to get? Nobody has any knowledge, neither they're interested to cultivate. They have concluded that "After death, everything is finished." This is their education. Blind. Westerners, they say it frankly. That big, big professor, I have talked: "Swamiji, after death everything is finished." This is their conclusion.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is...

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthite guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

(Bg. 6.20-23)

This is culture. "So long I have got money, I am very happy." No! "If there is not a single farthing, still, I'll be happy." That is real culture. That can be done That is possible when one is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to the forest to ask Kṛṣṇa to give him a very nice kingdom, but when he met Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa—He wanted to give him benediction—he said, svamin kṛtartho 'smi varaṁ na yace: (CC Madhya 22.42) "Bas, no more vara." So we have got such things. Guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). Never disturbed. That is culture. And "So long I have got money in the pocket, I am very happy"—that is dog civilization.

D. D. Desai: Even when there is no money, the man is...

Indian lady (5): (Hindi?) Even a small kid can understand. Why these big people cannot understand these (Hindi?) things?

Guest (1): Because we are educated. So we have to uneducate ourselves to understand this.

Indian lady (5): Educated does not take away your real culture. So you may be educated, but...

Prabhupāda: This is real culture, Bhagavad-gītā. I'm preaching that, Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If by serving humanity, you cannot raise him to the standard of understanding he's part and parcel of God and his main business to serve Kṛṣṇa, then it is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So our service to the humanity should be... He is in forgetfulness. He does not know what is his position. If you can raise him to the position that he is part and parcel of God... Unless he comes to the position of serving God, his material condition will continue. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. So, dharmasyāsya janma, parantapa. Aśraddadhānāḥ... Like that. Then that service is useless. If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is... There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That's all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you'll get? He is under wrong impression that "I am Christian," and he's brought into another wrong impression—"I am Hindu." But he's neither Hindu nor Christian. He's servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit? A dog is also thinking, "I am dog." And if somebody is thinking, "I am Hindu," so where is the difference? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one thinks, "This body, I am"—either Hindu or Muslim or dog or cat, if one is thinking in that way, that "I am this body,"—sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's animal. So from one animal to another animal—from cat to dog or from dog to cat—where is the benefit? The position is the same. As a cat he will that "Meow," and as a dog, he'll "Gowl." That's all, that much difference.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is real position. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). If you are under the law of birth and death, then it is useless, the same thing, either you become cat or dog or god or anything. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). So even if you take your birth in the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, still, the birth, death, old age is there.

Indian (1): Kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokam...

Prabhupāda: Martya-lokaṁ viśanti. So disease continues.

Indian (1): It is a circle.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): And that man himself accepts all these things...

Prabhupāda: That is going on...

Indian (1): ...through his karma.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are karmīs, they are working to go to the heavenly planet. And what he'll do? What he will benefit?

Indian (1): Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. In lakhs and lakhs, people there are one..., it is very difficult to find a jñānī.

Prabhupāda: No, jñānī... One can become jñānī in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he's jñānavān. Otherwise he's a rascal. So if you don't teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then he remains a rascal. That's all.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man: Second thing is...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all you understand this. Then bring second thing. That you have no duty. Your only duty is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That is your only duty. But because you are under the mental platform, you are creating duties, so but that also must be finished after certain age. That is compulsory, that "You are very good, responsible man. All right, do your duty up to this. No more duty. No more duty." So this "duty, no duty," this is our creation. We are under fully control of the nature. But we have created our mental concoction: "This is duty. This is good. This is bad." That is our mano-dharma. Real dharma is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is real dharma. And everything is mano-dharma, mental creation. Therefore the Bhāgavata in the beginning it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: (SB 1.1.2) "This false dharma is rejected." These are all false dharmas. Real dharma is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But it takes time. Therefore sat-saṅga is required. But actually real dharma is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and do everything... Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). What Kṛṣṇa wants, we must know it and do it. And this is real dharma.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this movement is for that purpose. It is not for this janma-mṛtyu, I mean, temporary jarā-vyādhi. That is all right, but Kṛṣṇa says—if we take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Bhagavad-gītā—that is not problem. If there is little trouble, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real problem is that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Try to stop it. That is intelligence. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is culture; that is education, not to be very much bothered with the temporary. That is not very intelligence. Give them this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have got this body. So long you have got this body, you may give relief to the eyes, but another trouble will come. It is not guarantee that by giving them relief to the eyes he gets relief from all kinds of disease. That is go... That will go, going on, janma-mṛtyu..., er, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya (BG 2.14). So give relief, and the real relief, how to stop... That is our Vedic civilization, that you should not become father, you should not become mother, if you cannot give protection to your children from the cycle of birth and death. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This is real problem. Real culture is that "This child has come to me, so we shall train him in such a way that no more accepting body." Because as soon as we accept body.... It is very difficult subject matter, of course, to understand, but Bhagavad-gītā teaches yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). When people forget this problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, Kṛṣṇa personally comes to teach them that "This is your problem."

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ. Kariṣye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gītā. And promises, kariṣye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhiṣmadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because naṣṭo mohaḥ... "It was my mohaḥ. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all right.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: First of all we must understand what do you mean by religion. First of all let me know. What do you mean by religion? Hm? Religion means, according to Vedic śāstra, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). "Religion means the law given by God." It is very simple. But is you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law He has given, then where is religion? This is cheating. Just like law means the principle or the regulation given by the state, by the government. That is law, not that you manufacture some law at your home, as it is going on—yato mata tato patha. You manufacture something, rascal law, and that becomes a religion. That is not religion. Religion means the law given by God, simple law. So if you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law he has given, then where is your religion? There is no religion. Without understanding of God and without understanding of the law as given by God, then there is no religion. That is cheating in the name of religion. Therefore in the Bhāgavata, from the very beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vedyaṁ vāstavam atra: (SB 1.1.2) "Real religion is to be understood here." Real religion is Bhagavān speaking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is real religion. If you do not know God, if you do not know how to surrender to God, then where is your religion? If you do not know government, you do not know the law of the government, then where is the question of becoming... (break) ...therefore we are misguided. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is God, and He's asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). What is that śaraṇaṁ vraja? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). There is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Why don't you follow it? That is the...

Guest (7): Sir, what is your idea about people following other religions?

Prabhupāda: Other religion cannot be. Religion is one: God and what God wants. That is religion. Other religion cannot be. Other law cannot be. Law means which is given by the government. That's all. How there can be other law?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But they are the topmost devotees. These (chuckling) uneducated, without any town life, cow-men, they are Kṛṣṇa's best friend. Unsophisticated, no education, but love intense—that is perfect. That attracted Kṛṣṇa more. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ (sic:) na kartavya... Kṛṣṇa is so much attached to Vṛndāvana that He goes nowhere... What is that? They are not educated girls, up-to-date fashion, (indistinct) or nothing. Crude. As soon as there was blowing of the flute, immediately they began to run towards Kṛṣṇa. Somebody is taking care of children, somebody is engaged in boiling milk, and somebody was even lying down with her husband. Still, immediately... Very crude, unsophisticated, but intense love for Kṛṣṇa—that is Vṛndāvana. We want to introduce this farm project means intense love for Kṛṣṇa. And other things—very simple: little milk, little food grain, little vegetable, that's all. And that is very nice. If you get fresh vegetable, fresh milk, and food grain, what do you want more? And from milk you can prepare so many nice preparations, unlimited number, all very palatable, sweet. This civilization we want to introduce, not so-called rascal civilization and become implicated in this cycle of birth and death. This is not civilization. This is killing civilization. Human being got the opportunity to get out of these clutches of birth and death. They do not understand. They're so rascal, they do not understand how they are implicated in this cycle of birth and death, nor they do take it seriously, that this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). They are so blind rascals, they do not see that this is real suffering. They do not know it. Simply theorizing, making plan, and they do not know what is the suffering. Such a rascal civilization. So we have to introduce real civilization. Therefore we are struggling so hard. So make in such a way. That's a very nice place, center of Europe and very nice place. What is the condition of rainfall?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We live on the mercy and the guidance of the guru every moment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is para-upakāra. People are in so darkness. So give them some knowledge as far as possible. This is real para-upakāra, doing welfare, to give Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is scientist. He is trying to give among the scientists because his jugglery of words will counteract their jugglery of words. But our aim is very nice, that the rascal may be educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you are expecting some success?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah... Yes, by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: At least they are trying to understand.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That lecture that I gave, we made... Sadāpūta made that design so it's very attractive to science. That's from our Back to Godhead photograph. Fixed it up.

Prabhupāda: If they simply understand that all these laws of nature is going on under the direction of God... They are studying the laws of nature, how things are happening. But simply they have to understand that it is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: When you see the nature's law is working so accurately, so don't you think that there is some brain behind it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There must be.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Einstein admitted that. That is real scientific brain. And so nicely it is going on without any brain behind it? How it can go so nice? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. That brain is Kṛṣṇa. That they do not know. Now our business is: "Here is the brain. If you take it, you benefit it. What you are actually searching, here is." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Find out this verse. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Hari-śauri: Even for a crude machine, it requires some intelligence to construct a design.

Prabhupāda: Anything you take, it requires intelligence. Just like you have made this garland. Somebody intelligent has decorated. So who has made it? That they have no intelligence. They decorate this garland, one red flower and yellow flower, make it very attractive, but who has made this flower? That they have no intelligence. And that is answered. Mām ebhyaḥ param, mūḍho nābhijānāti. I am trying to taking the flower to make it more beautiful by setting them in this way, but who has made this beautiful flower? Whose brain is there? And that is explained there.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...etad anyathā ajñānam. Find out Bhagavad-gītā. This is knowledge. All other things are bogus. Otherwise how could I convince big, big scientists? They are not ordinary men, Doctor, that Svarūpa Dāmodara, one of the first-class scientists. He has got very good degree from Calcutta University, from other university, M.A.C. and other. He is very intelligent boy. He studies science very particularly, means sound knowledge. How he's attached?

Jayapatākā: This is real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is real knowledge. Hm.

Pradyumna: Whole thing read or just that, amānitvam adambhitvam?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So what can be done? We have taken this daṇḍa, we have accepted service of Kṛṣṇa, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll become My very dearest servant," He'll show them. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścit. So we want to be very faithful to our master, so you may come against us. We don't mind. Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible. What to..., you are prosecuting? If you kill us, we shall not. We have taken this daṇḍa. This is our determination. You cannot stop us. That's it. "Because we know this is the only welfare activity to the human society. You make talk, madmen. We don't care for it. To be imprisoned with this material body—the greatest suffering... You are trying to mitigate suffering, temporary, this way and that, but you do not know how." That you can show from the Bhagavad... Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). "This is real suffering. Why the eternal soul should be subjected to birth, death, old age and disease? We are seeing to this. You are thinking that 'If I can place myself in a very high skyscraper building and motorcar,' your business is finished. We are not so fool. We know that 'Any moment, I shall be kicked out of the skyscraper building and motorcar by the laws of nature.' " That's a fact. But fools cannot understand. They think, "This is my permanent..." That is not permanent, but you are permanent. "Where is my permanent situation?"—we are seeking after that. So we are not so fools. We are taking that "I am permanent. Why I should be encapped or entangled in this nonpermanent." This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is my mission. I am doing that. I am bringing money from America. Nobody's paying me. It is not joke, ten lakhs of rupees. Who brings?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even big export companies don't bring so much.

Prabhupāda: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.

Hṛdayānanda: Your Bombay project is very impressive. We've just taken a tour.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one lakh of rupees I gave this thief Nyer: "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have sacrificed their lives. They are scientists, they could earn lots of money, but they do not care for it. They have dedicated their lives. In America they could earn lots of money, such a qualified person. But they did not care for money. They care for the truth. That is real brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa does not care for money. Knowledge. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). The truth. That is brāhmaṇa.

Dr. Sharma: And they are living like brāhmaṇas in, you know, so... Bhagavān also has taken out time to protect the brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa...

Dr. Sharma: Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindāya...

Prabhupāda: His first business is to give protection to the brāhmaṇas and the cows. Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Jagad-dhitāya. Next, welfare of the others. First, Kṛṣṇa says specifically, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. He gives specific instruction: go-rakṣya, protect cows. (Hindi) Somebody was speaking to me that some great astrologer long ago predicted the Russia will be first-class theist in future. Who was speaking that?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already explained.

Dr. Sharma: Yāvad... (Sanskrit) The amount of material you need to fill your belly, that is your own. You can call only that much you own. If you think you own something more, you are a thief and you should be punished. That's what Bhāgavata says. This is the highest kind of socialism one can...

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there. Therefore they are not subjected to the sinful activities. Only human beings are subjected to sinful activities. But he has got developed consciousness and misusing it. There is no sinful activities for animals lower than the human being. There is no sin. Because they are under the laws of nature, the animals. And as soon as one becomes developed conscious human being, if he does not know the śāstra and guided by spiritual master, he will do all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma, all sinful activities. Only for sense gratification. Mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And what is the purpose of doing so many sinful activities? Yad indriya-prītaya, only for sense gratification. There is no other aim. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, don't do this." So who is giving protection to these rascals who are educated to act sinfully? That is in Bhāgavata. "No, no." Na sādhu manye. "This is not good."

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? We are preaching internationalism, everyone welcome. Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being done. Real United Nations. Here is Christian, here is Jew, here is African, here is Muhammadan, everything. Worldwide. That is real United Nations. They have no conception. If they would thought that "I am American," then why he is after a poor Indian man? Indians are known outside India as poverty-stricken, and that's a fact. So why he should come to the person born of poverty-stricken nation? But actually we are not poverty-stricken. If we cultivate our own standard of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, then we are the richest and we can give the whole world the gift. That should be... And they will welcome. That will be glorified if they accept. Just see. This is our... I am trying for that.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone. And in some day he will not be there, somebody will come. That is the history of the whole world. But that will not benefit the human society, politics. It is useless. This knowledge will help make the solution. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). We are suffering in this material condition, and He is delivering from this. That is real upakāra. That's the repetition of history, politics.

Mr. Koshi: But it has been going on for quite some time.

Prabhupāda: It is going on, but time immemorial. That is not the solution.

Mr. Koshi: They have seen to have more control over people than others. When a person is empowered, his actions can affect so many people.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of people?

Mr. Koshi: Cats and dogs.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Śva-viḍ-varāha. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as dogs, camels, asses and hogs. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. (break) The leader of hogs, dogs, camels and asses. Our civilization is brahminical, brāhmaṇa. That is wanted.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Morarji Desai, Indira Gandhi, and... What they'll do? Churchill and this and Napoleon, Hitler. Simply misguiding, whole history. Simply mis... They are rascals. They do not know what is what, and they lead. Gandhi... All rascals. Vivekananda and Sai Baba, this, that, so many... They should be stopped. That is real philanthropic activities. Where is...? Now we are going to show this planetarium. These rascal scientists: "All desert. All rocks and desert." Simply this planet, for his father's property. This is now happening. "The moon planet is a desert." And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals. That is our... It is not that "Let the rascals go on with their... Let us make our salvation." Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No, no, no, I don't want. I don't want. If there is salvation, I must take them also." This is Vaiṣṇava. "I don't want such salvation for my personal..." This is Vaiṣṇava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye (CC Madhya 6.254). Naturally a Vaiṣṇava will be unhappy. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha-māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). You know this verse? So we must know that these so-called leaders... Just see. He could not do it nicely.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Here is, here is... Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. This is real mitigation of suffering. This is... The world is suffering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

(BG 8.15)

Prabhupāda: This is mitigation of suffering. Mām upetya. Read it again.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

(BG 8.15)

Prabhupāda: Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. So long you have to accept another body, you must suffer. Suffering means this body. That Kṛṣṇa says. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Real suffering is here, that you have to take your birth, you have to die, you have to suffer from disease and old age. But your position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Your business is not to take birth and die. But why you are suffering? Nobody wants to die. You must die. Nobody wants to become old man. He must become. So you do not know what is suffering and how to mitigate it. And Kṛṣṇa points out, "This is suffering." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. So temporary... Suppose if there is any boil, and if you... Is that mitigation of suffering, do you think? "Oh, you are suffering?" The surgeon must come and operate and get out this pus and then suffering. So here Kṛṣṇa recommends, "This is mitigation of suffering. Stop your birth, death, old age and disease." So we do not know what is suffering and how to get out. Therefore we have to consult Kṛṣṇa in every step.

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is difference. Cat and dog, there is difference. An intelligent man and a rascal is difference. There must be difference. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How you say there is no difference? A brāhmaṇa is brāhmaṇa. A kṣatriya is kṣatriya. Vaiśya is vaiśya. That is real understanding. If you say, "Everyone is brāhmaṇa," that's not good.

Indian man (3): But we have been told to see only one consciousness, one life, between indi...

Prabhupāda: That oneness is on the spiritual platform. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). That is another thing. But so long you have got a bodily concept of life, you must divide: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That is wanted. Just like in my body there is division. There is head. There is hand. There is leg. There is belly. So they have got different activities. The head is important. If you cut the head, then whole thing is finished.

Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we identify with the processes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we see the differences.

Prabhupāda: Difference is there in your body. Do you think the head and the leg the same thing?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That should be confirmed(?). Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Don't accept it blindly. We have not accepted Caitanya cult blindly. This is practical. The purpose was to separate from India to become happy. Where is the happiness?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Civil strife.

Prabhupāda: And that is real happiness?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Not they are. And this was the British plan: "So they are driving away? All right, make such arrangement. They'll perpetually remain unhappy."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They knew they were losing, so they thought, "Let everyone lose along with us. No one shall..."

Prabhupāda: That is natural. "If you become my enemy, I shall be your enemy." That is everywhere. Material world means that.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say like that? And Kṛṣṇa says openly, mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do? This is all simply concoction. You cannot do anything.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

The nature's law will go on. You cannot make a poor man a rich man, unhappy man an happy man. That is not possible. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Can you make a hog eat halavā instead of stool? Can you make? By nature's way it is going on. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These are foolish person who concoct ideas. It is not possible. If you can do anything to the human society, induce him to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee.

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

(Bg 18.68)

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ

(BG 18.69)

Kṛṣṇa says. So Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). Teach people that "You take it." That is real benefit. Otherwise you cannot do anything. What you can do?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is... Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), anādir ādir... Anādi. (Hindi) You have got so exalted knowledge in India. You have kept it packed. And you are going to beg from others? Take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā and assimilate it, make your life successful, and distribute it throughout the whole world. That I want. (Hindi) Knowledge, real knowledge, is in India. (Hindi) Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Indians, they are fortunate. They have got their birth in Bhāratavarṣa. The knowledge is here. So assimilate this knowledge. Make your life successful and distribute it to persons outside India. That is paropakāra. That is real paropakāra. That is real sevā. But sevā, no. It is dayā. The sevā cannot be used. Sevā means offered to the superior. And to the inferior, if you want to do something, that is dayā. There are words. Sevā is only capable to accept, Kṛṣṇa. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). These are... (Hindi)

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So what you will gain from naṣṭa, bhraṣṭa? (Hindi) We shall give pure. Then you see how your country becomes happy. That is real dayā. (Hindi) Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). (Hindi)

bhaktim udasya te vibhoḥ kliśyanti

hi kevala-bodha-labdhaye

teṣāṁ kleśala eva avaśiṣyate

nānyat yathā sthūlaṁ tuṣāvaghaṭṭainam

Bhagavad-gītā is for bhakti. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am speaking to you..." When Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna Bhagavad-gītā to understand, he was not a vedāntī. He was not even a brāhmaṇa. He was not a sannyāsī. So why he was selected? Bhakto 'si. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Without becoming kṛṣṇa-bhakta, what one will understand Bhagavad-gītā? A politician cannot understand. His motive is different. He cannot understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... Bhakta... How to become bhakta? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Kṛṣṇa says, "By bhakti one can understand." He never said, "By jñāna, karma, yoga..." No. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata... (BG 6.47). Eh? What is that? Antar-ātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo... So if you want to organize on that line, then it will be successful. Otherwise it is waste of time. That is real cooperation, that we must accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach as it is. Then people will be happy. Otherwise waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a statue?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... He has done. Like this Nanda has done this. And he's sticking to his whimsical policy. I wanted to mix with him, and I thought that he'll be useful. Useless. Mānava-dharma "man's religion" I asked him several times that "Is there any dog's religion? You have manufactured that." Religion means man's religion. That much he can do. Mānava-dharma. He is educated, intelligent, buddhi—with no brain. I have studied. And he's a good man also, but no intelligence. I have studied all these rascals. So long they are in office, by the power of office they are useful. Otherwise they are useless. Just like my books they are appreciating. They have never seen me. Not that because I am guru of some temple... They appreciate my work. That is real appreciation. "What you have done? What remains behind? All for the...(?)" Anyway, do something. Do. People are... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Blowing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, blowing with mouth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Blowing with mouth.

Prabhupāda: So they have got business, blowing with mouth in three ways.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: That first of all you understand. You have to die. If I think, "Oh, you should not die," so what my, this compassion will help you? You have to die. Then what is the use of this compassion? If you give him something that he will not die, that is real compassion. Suppose if there is a boil here, I am suffering, and you come, "Oh, you are suffering?" is that compassion?

Indian woman (5): But you feel a pain also in your...

Prabhupāda: You feel, but what is the meaning of that feeling? You cannot do anything.

Indian woman (5): No. It is not possible.

Prabhupāda: So this kind of compassion also, it is all useless. It is wasted.

Young man (6): I have... In my life I've seen some people... I haven't seen them all. I have read books, and I've met people that, that, you know, people that don't know. Some know more than others, and what I've seen is that there is always a point in everybody's mind and everybody's being where they draw the line between madness and sanity, between right and wrong, and the question in my mind is: Who makes the rules, and where do the rules come from? Because, I know, any society... For instance, in India there are the Indian scriptures, the Bhagavad-gītā and so on, and this is the basis of all Indian society. In the West there is the Christian scriptures, the Jewish scriptures. And they all have rules. They all have rules right down to the daily conduct of people, what they're supposed to eat, and they don't agree on what people are supposed to eat. Now, does that make one person who does not follow one set of rules wrong by another set of rules?

Prabhupāda: No, first principle is that you have to follow the rules.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Not changed. You think that.

Young man (6): But my ability to work...

Prabhupāda: Your ability to work is destined. Why don't you understand this? What you are? Why you are thinking yourself very big? That is your nonsense. You are under the rules of material nature. You'll be forced. That is real understanding, that "I don't want this. Why material nature forces me?" That is real knowledge. "Why? Why I am under the material rules?" Then knowledge begins.

Young man (3): Ah, this is understood, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you think stick to your own rules, that "I don't care for your material rules," who cares for you?

Young man (3): But one must train themselves...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is knowledge. You meditate upon this, that "I do not want to die. Why there is death?"

Young man (6): "I don't want..."?

Indian man (1): "Why is there death? I am forced to die."

Young man (3): I'm thinking he's not (indistinct) properly.

Prabhupāda: So the real problem is birth, death, old age and disease, and by following any rules, if you can stop this problem, then you are successful. It doesn't matter what is your brand of rules, but the problem is there. And we are suggesting that mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... If you want to avoid the rules of material nature, then you surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. We are suggesting. If you like, you can take it. But you are under the rules of material nature. That you cannot say, "No." (aside:) Now give them prasādam.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Devotee (5): We chant every morning, sākṣād-dharitvena...

Prabhupāda: No bona fide person will say that "I am God." As soon as one says that "I am God," he's a rascal immediately. God is not so cheap. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said. He said, "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of servant of God." Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). Hundred times down. And that is real identification. And as soon as a person says, "I am God," then he's a madman. He's part of God. That is all right. But not the Supreme God.

Indian man (4): Can we find the one in ourself? Can we find the one in the basis of ourself?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man (4): The one in the basis of ourself?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Can we find the one in ourselves?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Self is there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That one Lord is there within your heart. Where is the difficulty? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). All living entities—not only you, me-cats, dogs, everyone, even ants... Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is within the atom also. So there is no denying, He is everywhere.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So you voluntarily accept this cycle of birth; you don't accept Kṛṣṇa. Then who can help you? If you have decided to cut your own throat, how can I help you? You'll do it. Whenever you'll get opportunity, you'll cut your throat. How much I can give you protection? That is going on. They have no faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa. They'll manufacture ideas. It is not "seldom." It is my dog's obstinacy that is checking. We cannot give up. Kṛṣṇa has..., sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That you cannot do. You want to keep in the same position, and at the same time, you want to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. In this Hrishikesh, tīrtha-kṣetra, everyone comes to get some spiritual enlightenment, but who is talking of Kṛṣṇa? Am I right? And there is Gītā-bhavan, Gītā this, Gītā that. What is that "Gītā"? Gītā commentation. Nobody's interested. They don't like to hear even about Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. So mat-para is not seldom. (laughs) The followers are seldom. But Kṛṣṇa says, mat-para. "If you want to practice this yoga..." Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogam... This is yoga. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). This is real yoga. So nobody's interested. Then what can be done? My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If one is selling langlam(?), and he's canvassing, 'Please come here. Take langlam. There is no price for it,' then people will not take. 'Why langlam he's distributing free?' " So that is the position. We are going to door to door: "Take Kṛṣṇa." They think, "It is very cheap thing. What is the use? Let us practice some other yoga." Kṛṣṇa says, yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). We don't take. So langlam is not seldom, but the person who take langlam is seldom. This is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says, "By this practice of yoga..." Aiye.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman. Anantam: "There is no end." Here, whatever happiness you are getting, that is not unlimited. Limited. That limited happiness is available in the life of cats and dogs also.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. If gaṅgā-jala is pure, it is pure here and there also. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tīrtha-yātrā pariśrama, kevala manera bhrama: "It is simply satisfying the mind." Otherwise, wherever there is Ganges, there is Yamunā, that is sacred place. Delhi also, sacred place. There is Gaṅgā. Anyway, so, we should take advantage of the knowledge of sādhu. And that is real progress. So catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Four kinds of men, they come to God, Kṛṣṇa. God means Kṛṣṇa, not ordinary... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

(CC Madhya 19.151)

Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To approach Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. After many, many births... We are rotating... (break) ...superintendent of this egglike aṇḍa, universe. It is all Brahmā's. And there are innumerable planets. That we can see. So we are wandering in all these places, sometimes down, sometimes up, sometimes in the middle, according to our karma, in different species of life, in different planets, in different position. So we are rotating. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Out of these innumerable living entities who are entrapped with this brahmāṇḍa and janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi... (BG 13.9)." Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Life after life, life after life, they are... That we do not know. This is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. You die, accept another body, another place, another situation, another position. This is going on.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is real work. If the Prime Minister has got this thing in his brain, then I can understand that he can do so.

Mahāṁśa: And this is a very nice thing he said, Prabhupāda. He said that "We want to improve things in the countryside to an extent that people from the cities start running to the villages."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I want. I... Everywhere I go and say, how these rascals...? So much land is lying, and these rascals are not developing. And they are making... What is that? Coal stone. Coal. They are interested with these bricks and stones, not green vegetables. Such a rascal government. Give them facility. We know how to do it. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Let them engage in kīrtana. There will be more water for gardening, and it will be moist, and then produce fodder for the animals and food for you. And animal gives you milk. That is Vṛndāvana life. And they are absorbed in this so-called opulence. Kṛṣṇa has taken birth. They are bringing so many nice, pleasant foodstuff, very well-dressed and ornamented. These are description. In the morning we were reading. How they were happy, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana with Kṛṣṇa and living and cows. That I want to introduce. At any cost do it and... Don't bother about big, big buildings. It is not required. Useless waste of time. Produce. Make the whole field green. See that. Then whole economic question solved. Then you eat sumptuous. Eat sumptuously. The animal is happy. The animal even does not give milk; let them eat and pass stool and urine. That is welcome. After all, eating, they will pass stool. So that is beneficial, not that simple milk is beneficial. Even the stool is beneficial. Therefore I am asking so much here and..., "Farm, farm, farm, farm..." That is not my program-Kṛṣṇa's program. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce greenness everywhere, everywhere. Vṛndāvana. It is not this motorcar civilization. If it has taken in his brain, then it is to be understood that he can do this plan. He'll be able. Somebody said that he is eager to see me. Hm?

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Write.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For the Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Write. That's a very good idea. (Bengali) This is real life. You are all qualified to do this. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). (Bengali)

Yaśodānandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning, as soon as the children heard that this name was going to be changed and it was going to be that, many of them became eager: "How I can be trained also to know these things?" The children are very eager to understand all these...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Yaśodānandana: ...the scientific approach.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (Bengali)

Dr. Sharma: Plus it should be nice.

Prabhupāda: It is already.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to have to look tomorrow and...

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can see, both, and select which room for which quarter. Big, big room... (Bengali)

Dr. Sharma: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nonsense comfortably... They have changed the season? Is it comfortable? We have to take this cooling machine. What is the practical benefit? You can say that it is comfortable. That's all right. But that does not mean that you have moved the uncomfortable situation. You are struggling against. That much you can take credit. Real benefit is not there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Real unhappiness is this, that you are: "Why I am struggling? I don't want death." Actually why I am taking massage and so on, so on? So that I may not die. So where is the scientists' guarantee, "No, you'll not die"? Has he any...? You'll struggle only. That's all. The scientists cannot guarantee, "No, you'll not die." That is real guarantee. "You'll die comfortably." Hm? Die comfortably? Now there is no appetite. Where is the scientist, assuring, "Take"? What actual benefit they have done? They are giving some... Nothing they have given. It is simply bluff. Things without which we could do, such things are there. There were no motorcars. There was horse carriage and bullock carriage. Things were going on. Not that without this horseless motorcar society would have been vanquished. No. There are other alternatives. Rather, they were complicated. As soon as you ride on a car, there is anxiety, especially in your country, so many cars. When you ride on a car, full of anxiety... At any moment there may be accident. It is not comfortable. If you are full of anxiety. Aeroplane may be. At any moment you can die. It is your time only. They're going in good faith: "I shall go there." But before rising to the sky, finished, crash. So many airplane has been... So where is the comfort? As soon as you get on the aeroplane, you are in full anxiety that at any moment there may be crash. Is it not? Then where is comfort? Real comfort is without anxiety. That is real comfort. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given, real comfort means, arni akyavad(?): "One who is not out of home and one who has no debts, he is happy." Nowadays people are going out of home, and everyone is debtor to the bank and so many... The economic machine is so made that one is put always in debts for some so-called comforts, and he's full of anxiety. The whole month he has to work to pay debts. (end)

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child." That we have given in pictures, change of body. Change of body is going on. Why these rascals cannot understand? What is their intelligence? Therefore the real problem is the change of body should be stopped. And that is real scientific advancement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stop change of the body. We are trying to follow this culture. They say, "It is impossible." So what is their knowledge of? Why the scientists cannot at least stop change of body? Young man... When I was young man, sir, stout and strong, then people came here. Now, on account of change of body, I am now invalid. Why the scientists cannot stop this? This is change of body. Simply bluff. They are big man amongst the rascals. They have not contributed anything. They say, "Change of body cannot be done"? What do they say? A young man is becoming old man. This is not change of body? Either stop this... And accept, soul is eternal; body is changing. What you can do? You cannot stop the change. Young man became old man. Or accept it is change of body.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have to accept a change of body. Change of bodies you have to accept from your argument. You were monkeys; now you are human being. This is change of body.

Śatadhanya: Evolution means change of body.

Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?

Śatadhanya: They have no civilization.

Prabhupāda: No, where is civilization? If you remain like animals, where is that civilization?

Śatadhanya: Just from the daily newspaper one can see that it is all madness, insane. (break)

Prabhupāda: Because whole Vedic knowledge is concentrated on the point how to stop birth and death. Eternal life. That is... (Bengali) (end)

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone. Simply one has to know. And where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. So know yourself, let your sons know, and you become free. Everything is there. So that ideal we want to give to the world. So throughout the whole world we cannot find out five hundred students? So what kind of manager? Hm? This is ideal civilization, that people are suffering mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and stop this repetition of birth and death. That is ideal.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is our aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. That was never before. Now that is going on. They have vans just like in America, and they travel, city to city, distributing the books.

Prabhupāda: That is real program. You must always be fit. So he has taken how much, loan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja? Well, he's taking two different loans. One loan is for vans. Took fifty thousand rupees. He's now paid off ten thousand. Every month he's sending regularly five thousand. He's done that regularly now. And then he's taken another loan...

Prabhupāda: For printing books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...for printing books.

Prabhupāda: One lakh of rupees, hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it isn't that much, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was about forty-five thousand rupees so far.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he can take any amount of money, provided he returns.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I told him. After I received the second payment, I said, "This is very good. If you continue to pay off to me, you can expect to get more loans."

Prabhupāda: So I am very eagerly waiting. If some of our men get permanent visa, then I'll do very vigorous propaganda.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Maximize collect... If you increase collection, that money comes, extra.

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But by decreasing expenditure, you save money. That is real saving.

Mr. Myer: No, (indistinct) rupees is not the savings. At present the excess in expenditure only will come, as it stands now. So we have to find a regular means. It's very possible if some of the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's saying that whatever the case is, more money is being spent here than is being made.

Prabhupāda: So save it. First of all save it. More money, to increase, that is not difficult for us. We go to beg, "Please give us." We can get.

Akṣayānanda: So the idea is to save it.

Prabhupāda: Real thing is how to save it. In business circle they say, "To earn money is not difficult, but to spend money is difficult." That is intelligence. To earn money is not difficult because we do not earn. Whatever Kṛṣṇa gives, we take it. But if Kṛṣṇa's money is not squandered, misspent, that is intelligence. So we have to see first of all present... I know that. So much money is squandered. Just like the other day. To secure one eye glass... It is four annas' worth. We have spent at least twenty rupees. In this way our money is being squandered.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. That is real happiness. You should know what is happiness. Whatever we're getting, that is sufficient if... Simply to keep your status quo nicely. That's all. This is secret of happiness. I must not be poverty-stricken, neither I shall hanker after becoming very, very so-called rich. That is happiness. That arrangement is there. Your present position will never be disturbed, you'll improve, and you get, after seven years, 2,500 rupees per month. What do you want more? This is simply idea, that "My father has got so much property for me." And even if your father leaves so much property for you, if you have no luck to enjoy it, you'll be Harendranatha Singh. That you have seen, that your maternal uncles, what they have done? They're all rich men's son. My father-in-law left sufficient property. But what did they do? Simply drunk and die. Where is happiness? Is that happiness, do you think? Now still they are suffering, his family. If Kṛṣṇa has saved you from that...

Vrindavan De: With provocative disturbance.

Prabhupāda: Just see. To enjoy happiness they are sitting in that house. Your grandfather left such a nice property. But they are not happy. And they disturb you. You came out... (coughs) Practically seeing, you are happy more than them.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No more death for a devotee.

Prabhupāda: No. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). If you don't attain Kṛṣṇa in this life, then again you go back to the process of birth and death. That's all. And in that process of birth-death, sometimes you become Indra and sometimes you become that small bug, that's all, according to your karma. So our struggle should be how to stop this birth and death, punar-janma-jayāya, to conquer over rebirth. That is real life. Again dying, again entering in the mother's womb, lie down packed up for ten months and then again come out, again another chapter begins—is that life? These rascals, they do not understand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imprisonment.

Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this is transcendental. "This is real psychotherapy," he called it. He made it seem like this is legitimate, this is a bona fide experiment, just like you go to a psychologist or psychiatrist. He tried to explain it as a medical drug for helping the mind. But as a result of it so many people became crazy by using it.

Prabhupāda: Howling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you saw so many people who were taking it in America.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent. Therefore Devānanda presented it: "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is hippies' movement."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Devānanda. I remember at one initiation ceremony you asked... It was Kauśalyā. You said to her, "What are the four principles?" So she stated them. Then you said, "What is the fifth?" So she didn't know what to answer. Then you said, "No LSD."

Prabhupāda: This Kauśalyā girl was loitering in the street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Kauśalyā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kauśalyā. In Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No protection. Somehow or other, she came to see me when I got into Los Angeles.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is a different issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may have used that, though.

Prabhupāda: The real issue is the Communists do not want any religious movement in Bengal. That is real issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we're the only one left. Ramakrishna Mission is not religious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gauḍīya Maṭha is ineffective. And the Christians are not big.

Prabhupāda: This guṇḍā class, they do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ramakrishna also does not. They say that Caitanya had men. In Orissa also the people emasculated. In Orissa they say that since Mahārāja Pratāparudra met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he lost his kṣatriya strength. He was very powerful king, but since he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he became effeminate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your answer to that?

Prabhupāda: That is the Orissa government's principle.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good. You have given them some prasādam? Arrange.

Governor: When she was four years old, this girl, she was telling me in Ahmedabad often, "Dādājī, you take me to Vṛndāvana." I said, "Why?" "So that we will meet Kṛṣṇa." I said, "But to..., Kṛṣṇa will not be..." "No, no, I will see. You will meet Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there. You must go to Vṛndāvana."

Prabhupāda: Just see. She is natural Vaiṣṇavī. Natural Vaiṣṇavī. So give them proper education. This is real education. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). That is the Vedic civilization, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛt ca aham. So at least this knowledge from India must be spread all over the world. We are making a humble attempt. We have no such thing, these... "You have got money and I'll snatch it." The Communists take it. Just see. They have taken. "Why so big, big buildings? Take them away."

Governor: In Madras I find quite a good atmosphere for this religious character.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I know that.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is according to your convenience. But kīrtana is very sweet.

Hari-śauri: Last June we were doing twenty-four hours.

Prabhupāda: That is real business. These astrologer are karmīs. We have nothing to do with the karmī.

Hari-śauri: Their measurement of happiness and distress is how much nice wife and children they get and how much money they get.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāgavata reading and kīrtana... Hm. Hm.

Hari-śauri: They don't understand that the real happiness is giving everything to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't waste time and money in any other way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes I find that you're sleeping, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So I was just wondering—at night, when you do most of your sleeping, whether we should still do kīrtana. I was thinking that we could do it up until nine o'clock at night and then begin in the morning again.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So give me something to drink.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Kīrtanānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is real affection.

Kīrtanānanda: Is someone getting?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Upendra's bringing something.

Brahmānanda: What does he have? Grape juice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You'll drink by sitting up? (devotees sit Śrīla Prabhupāda up) (aside:) Fold his legs.

Hari-śauri: There's the drink, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some grape juice.

Upendra: This is grape juice. (Prabhupāda drinks juice) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to lay down now?

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that our being here and chanting before you is spreading this movement, because the more we chant, the more love and dependence we develop for you, and that's making us strong in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and therefore our movement is getting stronger. Every day that we stay here, we become stronger in our devotion for you and dependence on you. (pause) I think that I should just tell them to end their meeting now. They're waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I'll come back in a little while and chant. Actually you have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has built this palace. It's only meant for you. We were seeing pictures of it today. It is so beautiful. It is exactly the place that you want to retire in and translate. And this community of Gītā-nagarī will be just proper place to give direction how to establish nice spiritual community. These two places are very close to each other-New Vrindaban and Gītā-nagarī. They're only three hours away from each other. Two very good communities for showing the example how to spread ideal Vedic life. We were discussing that actually it is not anything new that Kṛṣṇa can make His devotee better, because we were reading before in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta how sometimes Lord Caitanya would bring back to life someone who had even expired. And His associates were able to do that. And there is many cases. I think if we are very determined, then Kṛṣṇa will surely fulfill our desire.

Prabhupāda: Without fail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Without fail.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew. This is the science. This is real medicine. It took him seven, eight hours, twenty-two ingredients distilled. He has to distill the water first. Twenty-two ingredients.

Kavirāja: (Hindi) (Prabhupāda drinks medicine)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is for the kidneys?

Kavirāja: (Hindi) Vṛkka-sañjīvanī. (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Vṛkka. V-ṛ-k-k-a. Kidney. The Sanskrit name for kidney is vṛkka. Araka(?) means extract, and sañjīva...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that mean? Extractive.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Extract, to revitalize the kidney. No, our medicine for revitalizing the kidney.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like a little soft kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: No. Now let me take rest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take rest. Okay, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)