And actually, when we relish some mellow, rasa, that is called bhakti-rasa. We are trying to explain Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu by Rūpa Gosvāmī. So this is bhakti-rasa. The leg is serving the body under some rasa. The hand is serving the body under some rasa. The brain is serving the body under some rasa. So similarly... That is natural division, throughout the whole universe, anywhere. And because the whole universe is being carried on by the three modes of material nature, goodness, passion, ignorance... And there are mixture also. There are three: goodness, passion and ignorance. Just like there are three colors, yellow, red... (aside:) You stand on... You disturbing... Yellow, red and blue. And those who are artists, they mix with three colors and it becomes nine. And again, the nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. In this way, all these divisions, different forms of living entities, they are being conducted under some modes of material nature, either pure or mixture. And therefore we find so many varieties.
That is natural (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So we are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most superior authority. (break) ...our Vedic system. It is advised, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That is the system. Just like you are a medical man. To acquire your knowledge, you had to accept the medical college, the professors. So this is natural. If we want to know something which is not, or which is unknown to me, then we have to accept a guru, a superior man. Guru means superior man. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means "heavy," or "superior." That is the law. So our process of Vedic knowledge is that we get knowledge from the superior just like Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. He's the first, original creature, within this universe. And he got knowledge from God, Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute.
So the bhakti, bhakti cult... Everyone should take. Because that is natural. Natural. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Bhakti's not unnatural. Other things unnatural. That is the statement of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Eternally you are servant of Kṛṣṇa. But we have accepted the service of māyā, instead of Kṛṣṇa. And we are thinking we are independent. We are being kicked out every moment by māyā, and still I am thinking I'm God, I'm independent.
So if you go very high in the sky, if you actually enter into some planet where there is varieties of life, then you become satisfied. Otherwise, if you remain only in the sky, nirviśeṣa, nirākāra, then you'll hanker after: "Where is viśeṣa? Where is varieties? Where is variety?" This is natural. Therefore śāstra says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa param... You can go very high with your aero..., aeroplane, but if you don't get any shelter in the sky, then you'll have to come back. As they are doing. They're trying to go to the moon planet, not in the sky. The sky, you can remain in the sky. Why you are coming back? No, that is not very pleasing. That is not very pleasing.
Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Bhakti, it is very simple thing. Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa is natural. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśa jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore our only duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is natural. There is no question about it. Part and parcel means helping the whole. As we have several times explained that this finger is the part and parcel of my body, so it is the duty of the finger always serve the body, whole body. It has no other occupation. As soon as I desire, "Finger, you come to this place," immediately it comes. "Finger, you come to this place," it immediately comes.
All right. Doesn't matter." So he was associating with devotees. Similarly, a devotee is not interested to become liberated, go back to home, back to Godhead. Of course, even if he's not interested, Kṛṣṇa takes him. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is natural. But that is not our... We don't pray to Kṛṣṇa for anything of sense gratification. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, mama janmani janmani īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. Ahaitukī apratihatā. Our simply, simple desire is how to be engaged in the service of the Lord.
They are trying to read Bhāgavata, although they are habituated to malinterpret. But they have no other. They have finished their job. Now they are gradually coming to bhakti-mārga. That is natural. If one is actually sincere, after suffering the distress of impersonalism, gradually they'll come to surrender to the person. Bahūnāṁ janmanāṁ ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So when one becomes devotee, jñānīs, they give too much value to liberation, mokṣa, nirbheda-brahmānusandhana. But yogis, they give too much value for controlling the senses. Karmīs, they give too much value to, to the acts of promotion to the heavenly planets. But for a devotee these things are very teeny. They don't care for these things.
This obedience, the sense of obedience to higher authorities, to love somebody, these propensities are there in everyone. Even a child, we have seen, when there is saṅkīrtana, they also clap their hands. They also try to dance. This is natural. So this has to be little organized. That is called practice. Otherwise the things are there, dormant. Sometimes by bad association that dormant propensities are cut down. They forget. The present situation is like that. The so-called material advancement has curbed down the dormant propensities for loving God, or Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. Jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava, tomāra bhajane bādhā.
So even in the minds of the jungle people, there is obedience to the Supreme. As soon as there is some thunderbolt strike, so they offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. Offering obeisances to the great, that is natural. That is the gradual appreciation of the potency or energy of the Supreme Lord. Because whatever we see, whatever there is, they're nothing but different manifestations of the energy of the Supreme Lord. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. We can appreciate the potencies, the energies of the Supreme Lord, anywhere. As I explained yesterday, the potency is there in the seed. As Kṛṣṇa says, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). A big banyan tree is concentrated within a small seed, smaller than the mustard seed. There is the potency of a very big tree.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
This is the meaning of Āryan. Āryan, advanced. Āryan does not mean godless society. They are non-Āryans. Real Āryan means... Because we are part and parcel of God, naturally we have got, in minute quantity, the qualities of God. That is natural. But on account of our material association, those qualifications are covered now by upādhi, by various designations. This is our material disease. Material disease means... Just like a gold is covered by dirty, dirty things. Similarly, we are actually gold, because part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are a small Kṛṣṇa, very small, but we are also the same quality. But it is covered. This is our disease. And these coverings are going on in different names—socialism, communism, and this "ism"—so many. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am white," "I am black"—these are all designations.
There must be some head. That is the principle in our practical life. We follow our political leaders. We cannot say that "I belong to this party" unless I follow a leader. That is natural.
So that is the Vedic statement, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There must be one leader, the leader of the same quality, nitya. I am nitya, Kṛṣṇa is nitya. Kṛṣṇa is also living entity; I am also living entity. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. So what is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and me? The difference is that there are two nityas or two cetanaś. One is described as singular number, and the other is described as plural number. Nityo nityānām. This nityānām is plural number, and nitya is singular number.
"Now I am little interested how to become spiritually advanced, but I do not know how I shall put the question before You and what is the ultimate goal of life. These things I do not know. But I have got an inquiry." That is natural. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the natural inquisitiveness of any conditioned life, especially in the human form of life. As it is inquired by Sanātana Gosvāmī, everyone should be elevated to that position to inquire, "What I am?" Kṛpā kari' saba tattva kaha ta' āpani: "So I do not know how to place my question." This is submission. "So You can speak to me what is actually the goal of life, why I have forgotten my identification and how I shall be properly situated." This is Vedic civilization. Whole Vedic civilization means to understand oneself, to understand God and the relationship.
I kill him. So will the father be happy? If you say, "Father, your this child was disturbing me. I have killed him," the father will be sorry, "Why you have killed him?" This is natural. Because one child of the father is a fool, the other intelligent child cannot kill him. Then the father will be angry or sorry.
So we do not know. We are doing irresponsibly. Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī has gone to his spiritual master, he's asking this... This is also common, also very grave questions, that "In this material world, I do not want so many things, but they are enforced upon me. Why?"
So if I desire to work in cooperation with the Supreme, that is my natural position. That is desirelessness. If you... Suppose in this material condition, if you desire to eat, oh, that is natural. So long you have got this body, you have to eat. If somebody says, "Oh, you are desiring eating...?" Nobody says like that. Similarly, what is natural desire, that is permitted. And what is not natural, that is called "become desireless." Don't desire like this, unnatural. So desirelessness means not to desire unnatural thing. But to desire Kṛṣṇa's remembrance, that is natural. Because I am part and parcel, how can I forget? This forgetfulness is the cause of my so many desires. And as soon as I desire Kṛṣṇa, there will be no other desire. That is desirelessness.
Of course, that sort of love is not possible in this material world, but there are some rare instances. At least we can get an idea that... Similarly, the eternal liberated souls, they are satisfied simply by loving Kṛṣṇa. That is their satisfaction. Everyone wants to love. That is natural propensity. Everyone. When there is no loving object, then in this material world we sometimes love cats and dogs. You see? Because I must love somebody. If I don't find any suitable person lovable, then I turn my love to some hobby, to some animal, like that, because the love is there. So this is dormant.
Therefore they serve these three higher class: the intelligent class, engaged in cultivation of knowledge; the administrator class, who are engaged in good government; and the mercantile, class who are looking to the productive side of the society. So this is natural. There is no denying the fact. In every society there is a natural division. A certain class of men, they are intelligent class, a certain class of men, they are, take part in politics, and a certain class of men, they delight in doing business. And there are certain classes—they do not do anything; simply by serving, they maintain themselves. So these four classes are there.
When you are hungry, you have not eaten in three days, we become weak and we become hungry. So this is natural consequence. And as soon as you begin to eat, this weakness will disappear and the hunger will disappear, and satisfaction will come. There is no doubt about it. Similarly, if these two things cannot stand together, māyā and Kṛṣṇa, then if I am in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then there is no question of māyā. It may be that I'm not fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That may be. Just like while eating it is not that immediately my hunger is satisfied or immediately I get my lost weakness. Takes little time.
And because He defeated the Māyāvādī philosophers, many other scholars also began to meet Him personally and talk with Him, argue with Him.
So this was going on naturally. Whenever a man becomes prominent, so many others, they come to challenge him. That is natural sequence.
- sarva-śāstra khaṇḍi' prabhu bhakti kare sāra
- sayuktika vākye mana phirāya sabāra
The speciality of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was that He used to put very sound arguments, and He used to defeat His opponents in such a way that they were satisfied. They were not inimical. And with the evidence of śāstra. Not that argumentum vaculum.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
There is some wood, I forget. Crossing bridge. Anyway, they told me that this tree is standing for seven thousand years. So the trees are also living, and you are also living. You are trying to live. Whenever there is question of death, you resist. That means you do not want to die. That is natural sequence. So here it is said that why should you live? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, ke lāgi āche, āchi...: "Why I am living? I could not achieve love of Godhead. Then what is the use of my living?" He's lamenting. Narottama dāsa kena na lāgilā māriyā. Kena vā ahcaya prāṇa kichuka lāgiyā (?). He said, "Why I am living? What is the purpose of my living? What is the ultimate happiness?"
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
The Bhagavad-gītā also says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam, one he, one who is simply free from all reaction of sinful life, yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpam. How it is possible? Janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Those who are simply engaged in pious activities, the sinful activity cannot touch them. That is natural. If you are engaged in some type of activities, you are not engaged in other activities, you cannot do. Similarly, if you simply engage yourself in pious activities, the reaction of sinful activities cannot touch you. Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām te, such persons, dvandva-moha-nirmuktā, they're released from the duality, bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So you are engaged in that business.
So these boys, they have been trained up. This ārotik, this arcana, this distribution of literature, reading Kṛṣṇa books, hearing about Kṛṣṇa—that means they are not allowed to think anything else except Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. They are... The prāṇāyāma process, you can do it for one hours, two hours or, say, one day, two days, but this, this prāṇāyāma process, who are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is natural. You cannot think. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor (SB 9.4.18). If you simply engage your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, that is perpetual prāṇāyāma. Not for one hour, two hour, or a minute.
Festival Lectures
They have got all supplies of the necessities of the body. Now after this, there is another urge, which is described in the Vedānta-sūtra as brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring about the Supreme Absolute Truth. When one is above material poverty or material necessities of life, the next question is—that is natural—about spiritual. Because we are combination of matter and spirit, so that spiritual inquiry is there. Therefore generally, these boys and girls, they looked to some Indian swami to give them some enlightenment. Unfortunately, perhaps before me all the swamis who came here, they did not give them the right information.
Any one of us who are sitting here, nobody can vouchsafe that he has not committed any mistake in life. No, that is natural. "To err is human." In our country, even a personality like Mahātmā Gandhi, he committed so many mistakes. So to commit mistake is not unusual. It is usual for any man. Then again, one is illusioned. Illusioned means accepting something for something. Just like every one of us, we accept this body as ourself, but actually we are not, everyone. On this bodily concept of life the whole trouble is there in the whole trouble is there in the world. I am thinking "Indian"; you are thinking "American"; he is thinking "dog"; he is thinking "cat"; because on this bodily concept of life.
Similarly, without being fully spiritualized, nobody can enter into the spiritual kingdom. So nitāiyer caraṇa satya. If you catch nitāiyer, the lotus feet of Nityānanda, then you become immediately spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you become electrified. That is natural. Similarly, Nityānanda is eternal happiness, if you touch Nityānanda some way or other, then you become also eternally happy. Tāṅhāra sevaka nitya. Therefore one who has in contact with Nityānanda, they have become eternal.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
If you sell pure milk, just from the farm, there will be many hundreds of customers immediately, and if you sell adulterated, homogenized water mixed milk, the milk will be sold, but not very many customers ordinarily. So anything pure will attract. That is natural. Pure love, pure foodstuff, anything pure. Pure gold. In economics also. It is said, "Bad money drives away good money." If you put bad money, just like nowadays the currency is some paper, paper currency, so drives away good money. Good money means gold coins. They are not to be seen. That's economic law. As soon as you put bad money, the good money will vanish.
So try to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. People will be attracted, because everyone has got Kṛṣṇa's intimate relationship. We are all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.
Therefore we should be very careful not to make anything which may be magnified to the eyes of the public. Because we are preaching. We are preaching, and there is always demonic party who want to put us in difficulty. That is natural. Even Hiraṇyakaśipu, being the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was also putting him into difficulty. But if we remain sincere and go on chanting, these dangers will be over. Don't be afraid. Don't stop your regular regulative principles and regular activities, program. Go on with it. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, and gradually everything will be all right.
So Kṛṣṇa is the center of attraction. You might have read that when Brahmā stolen all Kṛṣṇa's associates, so He created Himself again all of them, and everyone was feeling more attracted by Kṛṣṇa. So this is natural. This is not unnatural. Our position is, natural position is, to be attracted by Kṛṣṇa. If we do not become attracted by Kṛṣṇa, that is unnatural. And to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa, that is not unnatural. That is natural.
So we want to revive our natural position, uncovered position. Now we are covered by dust, by dirt, by corroding materials. So we have to cleanse this. Therefore the bhakti process is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170).
So three things, if we understand, that everything belongs to God... Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. He is the proprietor. And then, because He is the proprietor, therefore He is the enjoyer. Just like in a big establishment or a big family, who will be the enjoyer? The proprietor. So that is natural. If God is proprietor, then God is the supreme enjoyer.
You take Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings and try to enlighten these people. The people are already... Bhāratavarṣī, the inhabitants of Bhāratavarṣa, naturally they are inclined. Just like in the villages, when we were passing, the boys and children, they were also dancing. That is natural. Some way or other, this India is in a very precarious condition. So you have come, taking so much trouble. And take little trouble. There is no trouble. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu there will be no trouble.
Initiation Lectures
You will take from your Godbrothers ten kinds of offenses. If you avoid the offenses, then you make very good progress of chanting. You get good result. The first stage is chanting with offenses. That is natural, because nobody is expert. The second stage is without offenses. When one can chant without offenses, then he becomes liberated. And the third stage is to achieve in the transcendental platform in the loving service of the Lord. So this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that it will gradually elevate you to the highest position. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
So long we have got this material body, we have to suffer the material pangs. There cannot be any adjustment. So if anyone is serious for ending all troubles... Everyone wants to live peacefully and happily. That is natural, because spirit soul is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature joyful. He wants to keep himself joyful, but he does not know how eternal joyful life can be attained. That is spiritual life. You cannot become joyful by material adjustment. No. You may be joyful for the time being by drinking or by intoxication, but how long?
And later on, they preached the whole thing. In the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha itaras tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). If a śreṣṭha, if an important man, acts in some way, others follow. That is natural. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya we are meeting and you have got great responsibility, because you came here to take your doctorate degree. That's very nice. When one of my Godbrothers went to England during my Guru Mahārāja's time, so Lady Wellington, she challenged that Godbrother that "Your men from India, they come here, and we give them some degree, and they become big men there.
He says, "My dear Lord, as a young man awakens his attachment immediately by seeing a young girl, or a young girl increases her attachment immediately seeing a young boy..." This is natural. Nobody wants to learn in the university how to love a young man or young girl. That is natural. So Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "When my attachment unto You will becomes such naturally and simultaneous?"
"You also take sannyāsa." Because wife's affection is very, very tight knot. It is stated, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ (SB 5.5.8). Naturally there is tendency—a man wants woman; a woman wants man. This is the material world, puṁsaṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam, sex impetus. That is natural. But when they are united, that impact becomes very, very tight. It is very difficult. It is very difficult to give it up. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that his wife has voluntarily has become like sannyāsīnī. So it is very good fortune. Therefore I advised him that instead of accepting another wife, you also become sannyāsī. So he is my faithful disciple. He has accepted. And all of you Vaiṣṇavas, give your good wishes that he can keep the sannyāsa order very nicely and preach Kṛṣṇa through the rest of the life. His life will become successful.
General Lectures
Just like my hand, my leg, or my tongue, they are all servants of me and the whole, similarly everyone, every living entity, is the eternal servant of the Supreme, supreme controller. So the duty of everyone is to serve Him. That is natural duty. That is natural. Any other position is diseased condition. In other words, who is not acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is diseased. The treatment is this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. Just like when a man is bitten by a serpent, there is some mantra. Of course, I do not know whether you have got this experience, but India there are experts who, simply by chanting mantra, he can give life to a man who is bitten by serpent. Mantrauṣadhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ. Mantra and auṣadhi.
There is love. There is no necessity of teaching a bird or beast how to love the children. There is no necessity, because that is natural. To love your home, to love your country, to love your husband, to love your children, to love your wife, and so on, you go on, all this love, more or less they are all in the animal kingdom also. But that sort of love will not give you happiness. You'll be frustrated because this body is temporary. Therefore all these loving affairs are also temporary and they are not pure. They are simply a perverted reflection of the pure love that is existing between you and Kṛṣṇa. So if you want really peace, if you really want satisfaction, if you don't want to be confused, then try to love Kṛṣṇa.
Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ brahma or parama, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahma. Brahman, we are all Brahman, but He is Para-brahman, the Supreme Brahman. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Just like you are all Americans, but your President Johnson is the supreme American. That is natural. Vedas says that the supreme of everyone is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Who is God? He is the most perfect eternal, He is the most perfect living force. That is God. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
That is a fact. Therefore we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to awaken this godless civilization, that you try to love God. This is the simple fact. You have got love within you. You want to love somebody. A young boy tries to love a young girl, young girl tries to love another young boy. This is natural, because the love is there. But we have created certain circumstances that love is being frustrated. Why? Everyone is frustrated. Husband, wife, boys, girls, man to man, states to states, everywhere, the love is not being utilized properly.
Either you take Christianism or Hinduism or any "ism," the purport is that you try to love God, because that is our natural inclination. Even in uncivilized society, when there is some thunderbolt, they immediately offer obeisances. That is natural. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Now this word dharma is translated or explained in the English dictionary, "religion," as "a kind of faith." But in Sanskrit dictionary, dharma means characteristic. Just like sugar. Sugar's characteristic is sweetness. If you are given some sugar, if you find it, it is not sweet, you at once reject it: "Oh, it is not sugar.
I shall not do it again." "All right. Excused." But if on the third time again he commits the sin, what the father and the teacher will do? He will slap him. Yes. Just to teach him, "Nonsense. I have warned you twice, thrice, and again you are doing that? No more excuse. Now punishment." This is natural. So if I go to God, if I go and confess, "Father, God, Supreme Father, I have done these sinful activities. I am confessing," "All right." The father excuses. If you make it a business, that "I shall do it and confess," then what will be the result?
That is natural consequence. So people should come to the understanding that "These sinful activities I shall not do." But he is forced to do, impelled by the quality of passion and ignorance. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why does he so, as if being forced by some agent? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ.
"I shall give you all protection." Father is always ready to give son all protection. That is natural. So we are all sons of God. We simply surrender to Him and the business finished. Then where is the mystical and this or that? There is nothing secret. So simply one has to agree. But if the rascal son does not agree: "Oh, why shall I surrender unto Him? I shall remain independent," all right, you remain independent. You remain and suffer. So there is no mystical. Everything is clear.
That's all. That process may be different according to time, circumstances, people. That is natural. Therefore, for a neophyte, simply by consulting scriptures, he will not be able to reach to the absolute goal. Because he will find, "Oh..." Sometimes they become skeptic. Just like in the modern age, the youngsters, you all boys and girls, they are becoming skeptic. They don't believe in any scripture now because they find some differences. Therefore Bhāgavata said that tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā: "Simply by argument you cannot establish what is Absolute Truth, and if you consult different scriptures, you will find difference of opinion, or difference of procedures, rituals."
We advise our students—and they follow—that "You don't have illicit sex life." Boys and girls, they are mixing, making friendship. That is nice. That is natural. A young boy is attracted by a young girl, or young girl is attracted by young boy. That is not unnatural, because it is in the Supreme Lord. That nice love attraction is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is a boy, sixteen-years-old boy, and Rādhārāṇī is also a fifteen-years-old girl. Not even one year's... I think, fifteen days younger. So our worshipable object is that spiritual love, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.
So you have, by austerity, you have to change that lust into love. If you love one girl, if you love one boy, that is very nice. That is natural. That is not unnatural. But don't change that love. Be combined permanently. Be combined. Not that "After few months I give up this girl," "I give up this boy," "I capture another." No. That is austerity. That is austerity. Oh, I purposely... Although I am a sannyāsī—I have no interest with family life, neither we are expected to take part in this man and woman relationship—but still, purposely I have married so many couples, boys and girls, just to see them happy. Without happiness, without being in good mood of mind, you cannot prosecute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
He's going here, going there. But if the child is given some engagement, toy, which he likes, then she will remain there pacified and will not disturb anyone. That is natural. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So long we are not again linked up with His service, with His... So long we are not again reestablished in our lost relationship with Kṛṣṇa, we shall remain restless. That is our natural condition. Just like the child is crying, restless. But as soon as the mother takes the child on the lap, the child is immediately pacified. Why? Because the child wants that.
So as soon as there is some danger, I shall immediately call my mother, and mother will give me protection." This confidence is there. She doesn't care for anyone. She wants to go to touch the fire; mother is going behind to give her protection. That is natural.
So as soon as you become free from all these designations, manufacturing process of the mind and intellect, and fully engage in Kṛṣṇa's service... Therefore, we require to be trained in the service of Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of representative of Kṛṣṇa, training. In this way, when we are fully trained, we shall reach that stage, oh, that "I am protected by Kṛṣṇa."
We have to develop our natural affection. Natural affection. Just like a father loves the child, child loves the father. That is natural. At least, father loves the child without any thinking of renunciation. No. That is natural. Similarly, when we shall develop, awaken... Not develop; it is already there. Simply to awaken. How it is awakened? Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. As you are coming here, if you try to hear the real fact of your relationship with Kṛṣṇa and yourself from the śāstras... Because ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā. We have to learn from the authorized śāstras, from the Bhagavad-gītā, from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, from Vedas, not from the rascals.
Our students, first of all they are engaged in a matter of duty of devotional service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanam (SB 7.5.23). This is called arcanam. But by worshiping the Deity he feels an attachment for service. That is natural. Tathāsakti. It is called āsakti. It will develop if you begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness at your home. Then you will feel at a certain stage an attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Āsakti. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga.
And the administrator class is called the kṣatriyas, and the productive class are called the vaiśyas, and the laborer class, or the working class, is called the śūdra. That is natural division.
In the Bhagavad-gītā... We are trying to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to preach Bhagavad-gītā. We have not invented something, but we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. Therefore, because we are presenting pure Bhagavad-gītā, people are accepting it very quickly.
Therefore Bhāgavata says, "Such literary productions where there is no glorification of the Supreme Lord, it is just like the enjoyable spot of the crows." But there is another class of birth who are called swans, rāja-haṁsa. They will not come there. They will not come there and enjoy with the crows. This is natural division. They will go in a place where there is very clear reservoir of water, nice trees, nice fruits and flowers, nice birds, mānasa-tīrthas, mānasa-gaṅgā, like that. They will enjoy there. Similarly, this mental speculation, huge, huge books, will be enjoyed by a class of men who are compared with the crows. But glorification of Kṛṣṇa will be enjoyed by a class of men who are called swans or paramahaṁsas.
The thing is, there are three qualities of men, and each one's feeling of pleasure is different. Just like there are crows, and there are swans. The crows take pleasure in a different way, and the swans take pleasure in a different way. That is natural. The crows are different from the swans, although they are birds, but because they are being conducted under different qualities of nature, their propensities are also different. So one may take pleasure by howling and drinking, and one man takes pleasure by chanting and dancing in Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is a different quality only.
So because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we also want to enjoy life with young girls, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. This propensity to enjoy life with young girls or young boys, that is natural. Yuvatīnāṁ yathā yunoḥ yunaṁ yatati yathā yuvatī (?). Young girl, young boy, they have got natural tendency to mix, to love. That is not unnatural. Why? Because this propensity is there in the Supreme. Just like you see Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa picture.
They say "national," "nationality." Why nationality is refused to the animals? Just like few days or few years ago the nationality was also awarded to the black man. This is nice. Why one section of humanity should be denied nationality? That was very nice. So similarly, if national means the living entity born in that land... That is natural. If a child, even of an Indian, if a child is born in your country he gets immediately the citizenship. That is the law. So the conclusion is that anyone who is born in this land, he gets nationality. But why we should refuse nationality to the poor animals? This is called ignorance. He is also... But we have made concoction, law, that "Animal has no soul."
Whenever there is discrepancy in the prosecution of religious principles, He comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, abhyutthānam adharmasya. And whenever there is discrepancies in religious procedure, irreligious activities increases. That is natural. Whenever there is lenient government, the rogues and thieves will increase. It is natural. And if the government is very strict, then rogues and thieves cannot become very prominent. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8)—for giving protection to the devotees, to the faithful, and for killing the demons.
You have seen the picture, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So eternally engaged in enjoyment, in the association of the gopīs. Gopī-jana-vallabha. And His only business is how to please the gopīs. Just like here, in this material world, the young boy who loves a young girl, he tries to please the girl always. This is natural. Because originally, the same thing is there in God. It is a pleasure. It is a pleasure for the male to please the female counterpart. That is originally created. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī-śaktiḥ.
And the first-class man is kicked out, "Go out. Don't talk of God." This is the position at the present moment. The classes are there. That is natural. There must be some first-class men, there must be some second-class men, there must be some third-class men, there must be some fourth-class men. But the difficulty is that the fourth-class man is taking the position of first-class man, and the first-class man is being kicked out. Therefore there are so many problems in the society. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. First-class man must be acting first class. But he's acting as last class, but he is posed in first class. Things have been topsy-turvied.
There are leading men in every society—in government post and educational institution, in business, and so many other fields. In every field of activity, there are leading men. That is natural. And in the Vedas we understand the supreme leading person is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Leaders must be accepted. Just like father is necessary, similarly, leader is also necessary. Guru is also necessary. So according to Vedic verse, Vedic version, we can understand that the supreme leader is Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, God, a person.
Because I have got the desire to go the moon planet, to the Venus planet, or any other planet, and they are trying with our, scientific knowledge. But because it is gross material, we are not yet successful. But the point is that I have got the desire to go this planet, to that planet. Just like we make tour, even on this planet. We want to go this place, that place, that place. So this is natural. Therefore here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sarva-gataḥ. You can go anywhere, everywhere. There are innumerable universes, and there are innumerable planets of different nature.
So if it does not produce the sound, then what kind of microphone it is? The sound production from the microphone is the dharma, is the religion, natural characteristic. So what is the natural characteristic of human being? The natural characteristic is that we serve the superior. That is natural characteristic. Either you become Christian or Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist, nobody can say that "I do not serve any superior." Nobody can say. One must serve. That is dharma. Faith, ritualistic—I am today Hindu; I can accept the ritualistic process tomorrow of the Christian faith; or a Christian may take another ritual—but his business, to serve the superior, that does not change.
That is practical. If you love somebody, in spite of being engaged in so many other occupation, you see your lover always—"When shall I meet? When shall I talk with him or with her?" This is practical. So if it is materially possible, if you develop your loving tendency... You have got the loving tendency. That is natural. Because living being is part and parcel of God. God is loving, so we have got that propensity of love. But our loving propensity has turned into lust at the present moment due to material condition. So if you want to purify that lust tendency into love, then you can see God. That is the condition.
If you want really peace, then you develop your dormant love of God, Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise you'll never be happy. Because we want to love somebody. That is natural. So we have placed our loving propensity in so many things, even to cats and dogs, but that will not satisfy us, because that is sense gratification. That is not real love. Real love is to love Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa. So this is the highest philosophy of life, highest perfection of life, how to learn to love Kṛṣṇa. The Vṛndāvana means simply loving Kṛṣṇa. The cowherds boy, the gopīs, the Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodāmayī, Rādhārāṇī—the only focus is to love Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Vṛndāvana.
Just like you have got natural division in your body: the head, the arms, the belly and the legs, similarly, social divisions, there is. Some of them are very intelligent men, class of men, and some of them are martial-spirited persons, and some of them are interested in trades and industry, and some of them are interested only for filling up the belly. So this is natural division. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam. If this cātur-varṇyaṁ, this division... The most intelligent class of men, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Śamo damo titikṣa ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42).
This is Bhagavad-gītā. Not that everyone will be cultivator. No. There must be management, and there must be brain also, and there must be worker also. This should be... This is natural division. But all should combine together for spiritual cultivation. Just like we have got our brain, our arms, our belly, our legs. They're all required. We cannot reject the legs and keep only hands. That is not possible. But the hands, leg, brain and belly should combine together to keep the body healthy. That is the aim. So we shall now go?
"I am speaking to Indian or the Hindus." No. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to everyone, to His every son. It doesn't matter whether he is white or black or blue or... It doesn't matter. These are skin disease. Kṛṣṇa says that we don't take this body as yourself. Asmin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). This transformation of the body, that is natural. But within the body, the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa is there. That you have to understand, that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. We have to understand what is there within the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education.
Udaya means it is awakened. Everyone has got love for Kṛṣṇa within the heart. That is natural. But that love is distributed in different ways. How? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatradisu bhauma idya-dhiḥ (SB 10.84.13). This love has been distributed familywise, communitywise, nationwise, countrywise, like that. So this love has to be concentrated, converted to be love of Kṛṣṇa. That is required. Then everything is perfect. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching, and He practically... Kṛṣṇa-prema-prdaya. To develop love for somebody, that requires very elaborate process. It is not... Because we are in the darkness.
That is not unnatural. If somebody says, "God is partial, that He takes special care of His devotee," no, that is not partiality. Just like a gentleman—in the neighborhood, he loves all children, but when his own child is in danger, he takes special care. That is not unnatural. You cannot blame him that "Why you are taking special care of your own child?" No. That is natural. Nobody will blame him. Similarly, everyone is God's sons, but His devotee is special. That is God's special attention. Ye tu bhajanti māṁ prītyā teṣu te mayi. So God is giving protection to every living entity, but if you become devotee of the Lord, pure devotee, without any motive, then God will take special care of you.
Kṛṣṇa says apareyam, "This is inferior, these energies." They are energies, prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. Prakṛti means energy, just like prakṛti means woman, naturally a woman is under the control of the man. That is our Vedic system, and natural system also. However, the woman may claim equal rights, they are under the control of the man. That is natural. So similarly prakṛti means which is under the control of the Supreme Lord. That is prakṛti.
So in this material world they do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone is very much expert to see his interest. Two businessmen, they are agreeing, but everyone is trying to see his personal interest first. This is called svārtha-gatim. That is natural. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. Unfortunately, these materialistic persons, they do not know what is his real interest. The real interest is Viṣṇu, how to serve Viṣṇu.
They are coming out. So they are offspring and material nature is the mother, Kṛṣṇa says that. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ, tāsāṁ mahad yonir-mahat-tattva (BG 14.4). Yoni, mother. So where is the father? The children are there, the mother is there, the next inquiry should be, "Where is the father?" That is natural. Without father, the mother is sitting with the child, nobody can say the child has no father. If somebody says that "I do not see the father. How I can believe?" that is foolishness. You believe or not believe, you see or not see, there must be father. This is the conclusion. This is theory, that this world is going on, everything is coming out of the mother earth, then there must be father. And that father is present, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the father."
Just like whenever there is misgovernment in the political world, there is some revolution; there is some change. People revolt against the administration that "We don't want this sort of government." As this is natural, similarly, whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principle—means the order, or the laws given by God—at that time God Himself comes or His representative comes to reestablish the religious principles according to the climate, country, people. That is going on, not only in the human society, but also in the animal society, bird society. That we understand from the Vedas.
So naturally we accept Kṛṣṇa on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is natural. But, everyone, of course, has to accept Bhagavad-gītā and Vedānta-sūtra if he, I mean to say, presents himself as Vedic or Hindu. Hindu is the name, the modern name. Actually the Vedic name is the original name, or varṇāśrama-dharma. That is the original name. So, apart from Vaiṣṇavas, even Śaṅkarācārya, who is impersonalist, who is Brahmavadi, he also accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Departure Talks
That is natural. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. Mahat means bigger and more powerful, and nunam means there are less powerful. So everyone is less powerful than God. Then why don't you serve God? That is the perfection. You have to serve somebody strong. You cannot avoid it. Just study all status of society, animal society or human society. The law is that the stronger is dominating the weaker. That is the law. You cannot avoid it. So wherefrom this idea came unless it is in God? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because every living entity is part and parcel of God, although very minute portion, similarly proportionately, he has minute proportion of freedom of will. Not absolute. That is natural. Every man has got a little freedom of will, but it is not absolute. A man cannot will as he likes. That is not possible. Therefore it is said, "Man proposes; God disposes." Although the freedom of will is there, it is subordinate to the freedom of will of God. You cannot fulfill your desire unless it is sanctioned and approved by God.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the fact that there is more good than evil in this world justifies its creation.
Prabhupāda: That is also true. We also accept. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Our tendency to offer service to the Lord, that is natural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that He is eternal servant; therefore that tendency should be natural. But it is some way or another covered by material ignorance.
Śyāmasundara: He says whereas sense perception cannot provide the information about the soul and about God, pure reason can penetrate into the unknowable and provide us with conceptions in order to grasp the whole of reality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is natural. Just like in our ordinary lives, citizens, they disagree. They go to the court.
Śyāmasundara: But here he says there's no higher body between two, jurisdiction between states, that it can only be settled by war. There's no court or higher authority for judging between states.
Prabhupāda: There is higher body if there is religion, if there is philosophy, if there is learned section, brāhmaṇas, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. There is higher authority.
Prabhupāda: And that is natural because, after all, God gives him his intelligence. It is stated in Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "It is from Me." Apohanaṁ ca. He was forgetting. That was also..., God was not giving the chance, and he prays to God, then God is kind: "All right, do it like that." That is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But as soon as they get a compound, then they forget God.
Prabhupāda: This is religion. Therefore I was talking in this morning that accept God as the supreme father and the material nature is the mother and we living entities, in 8,400,000 forms, we are all sons of God. So everyone has got the right to live at the cost of the father. The father is the maintainer—that is natural—and we are maintained. So every living being should be satisfied in the condition given by God. Man should live in his own condition, the animal also should live in his own condition. Why the man should encroach upon the rights, living right of other living entities like the animals? No. Nobody should encroach upon other's right. Everyone is son of God. Let him be maintained by the orders of God. That is ideal life, family life.
Prabhupāda: This we will admit. That is, therefore the Vedānta-sūtra is there. When fickle people become disgusted, that "We have worked so hard, but still we could not attain the goal of life, peace and prosperity," despair, then they begin to think, "Actually, what is the purpose of life?" That is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring into the Absolute Truth or the ultimate truth of life. That is natural in human life. That sort of inquiry is necessary for further development.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without love, nothing can sustain. If I do not love Kṛṣṇa I cannot surrender. It is not possible. Just like a small child, he is naturally surrendered to the parents because there is love. The child loves also the parents. So without the basic principle of love, the more you love, the more the surrender is also perfect. Just like a small child, you slap the child, he's crying, yet crying also with the words, "Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy," because there is love. Even in distress the child cannot forget. That is natural. Similarly, when you remain fully surrendered to the supreme will, either in distress or in happiness, that is your happiness. That is real happiness. This condition cannot be without love. In any condition, you remain surrendered. It cannot be done without love.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) forget. Just like you were in the womb of your mother. It was a very painful situation. But you have forgotten. That is natural.
Śyāmasundara: So it's not artificial?
Prabhupāda: No. But when you were in the womb of your mother, that's a fact. Now when you think of it you can understand how horrible condition was that. Therefore śāstra says that even if you have forgotten, it does not mean that you have escaped the incidents. It is that you are waiting for another painful situation like that.
Prabhupāda: That is natural, and everyone knows that's not a very (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: So he says that the cure for many of our present conflicts is to try to recall these painful experiences and analyze them and try to correct them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is jugglery of word. Psychoanalysis, nobody will, can understand, a common man. Psychoanalysis, if there is meaning, that there is supreme controller, that is psychoanalysis. We see everywhere controller, so it is natural. This is psychoanalysis, that there is a supreme controller. That is natural. Why defying this fact?
Hayagrīva: He says, "If one attempts to assign religion its place in man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition as a parallel to the neuroses which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity."
Prabhupāda: That is also his foolishness, because a child can be trained up to become a brahmacārī so that he will have no inclination for sex. It depends on the child's training. The unscrupulous father and mother, they enjoy sex life before the child, and they imitate. I have seen it. I have seen it in Agra. There are two small children. In life, what do they know? The female child laid down, and the man child, just like they have seen father and mother-sex. He does not know anything, but he is imitating. So imitating, imitating, the sex life is there, it becomes prominent. Similarly, you train the children not to have any sense of sex life, he will become brahmacārī. So he has not studied. He has seen some abominable family's children. So they learn these things. Whatever you teach, they imitate. So if you keep the children aloof from this sex-life society, he will remain a brahmacārī. There is many instances. That is the Vedic civilization. The children are immediately, as soon as four, five years old, he is sent to the gurukula, and under the discipline he forgets sex life, practically. But still if he has little, that is natural when he is young man, so a guru sees that still tendency for sex life, he is allowed, "Go on, marry and become a gṛhastha."
Prabhupāda: That we also say. According to material condition of life, they differ, they are classified. The highest stage is Vaiṣṇava. He is completely transcendental (to) material condition. Next the brāhmaṇa, then next the kṣatriya, then next the vaiśya, then next the śūdra, and next means less than śūdra, all caṇḍālas. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because that is natural, even from the caṇḍāla stage one can be brought to the highest transcendental stage of Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: That is not very important, how one becomes affected by some disease. But when the disease is there, the treatment must be there. That is natural. Instead of tracing out the history, what is the use? That the disease is there, make treatment and be cured, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: But this demon that haunts me, that is another personality besides my real personality.
Prabhupāda: That is not a... Personality, I am. Just like delirium, the same personality, but he's talking nonsense in delirium. If you remove the delirium condition, then he becomes again the original person. Delirium is not person.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is seeking, that constitutionally he is servant. He is seeking serve master. That is natural potency. So in the animal kingdom, animal life, just like a small cat... What is called? Child of cat and dog, what is called? Cat? A baby chi..., a baby dog, what is called, puppy?
Devotee: Puppy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I agree with him. That is the degradation of human civilization. But the philosophy of the Communist, that everyone has equal right or everyone must take share of the state equally, that is little, basic principle of real communism. According to our understanding, God is the father, material nature is the mother, and we, all living entities, are sons of the father and mother. So as sons everyone has right to live at the cost of father's property. The whole universe is the property of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all living entities, they are being supported by the father. But one should be satisfied with the supplies allotted to him. That is, Īśopaniṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). There is no need of encroaching on others' property. We should not become envious of the capitalist or rich man, because everyone is given his allotment by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I should be satisfied with my allotment. I should not encroach upon others' allotment. But the exploitation idea is not there. The same thing, that nobody should exploit. If one has become rich man, that's all right. That, that is natural.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that these people, they do not understand what is religion. Religion you cannot avoid. That is characteristic. Just like we gave several times this example, that everything has got a particular characteristic. Just like salt, salt is never sweet, and sweet is never salt. It has got a characteristic. A chile is pungent. Similarly, living entity, we are..., what is our characteristic? Our characteristic is to render service. Either you take Communism or this "ism" or that "ism," your real characteristic to render service, that will not change. The, in the capitalist country they are asking people that "You work in the factory and work for me, and whatever I say, you do," and the same thing is being dictated by the Communist leaders. Where is the difference? There is no difference, but it is only difference of nonsensical idea. Therefore a mass of people, they have to render service, either to Mr. Lenin or Mr. Roosevelt, it doesn't matter. He has to render service. But both the services are not being profitable to the mass of people. Therefore we suggest following the footprints of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that you serve Kṛṣṇa. Service is your essential duty, but because your service is wrongly being executed, you are not happy. But if you render your service to Kṛṣṇa, that is natural and you will be happy.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. It may be hero or not hero, it doesn't matter. If somebody comes to attack me, I try to fight with him, trying to save me. So I may not be successful, but that is my natural instinct. So everyone is hero.
Śyāmasundara: No. If a person is free of this bad faith, this...
Prabhupāda: What is bad faith and what is good faith, according to him?
Śyāmasundara: Bad faith is that I avoid decision making. I am avoiding decisions. Avoiding making decisions is bad faith.
Prabhupāda: Avoiding making decisions?
Prabhupāda: So this is right philosophy. The mother is the material nature and father is God. So father gives the seed, and mother begets so many children. So it is a big family. Father is God and material nature is the mother, and then we, as children, we are taken care of by the father and mother, so our duty is to remain peacefully at the cost of the father and mother and become obedient to the father and mother. This is natural. Beyond this, all speculation. That will not give us real peace and prosperity. We must, have to accept. God is there, the nature is there, and we are also there, a big family. Let us live peacefully according to the order of the father. That is natural.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not invents. He knows God. This is natural. Just like if a sane man is there, so who is the original father? Huh? Just like I have got a father. Everyone knows. My father has a father. His father's father's father... Then who is the original father?
Śyāmasundara: So he can invent his original father.
Prabhupāda: No. He can simply know by this philosophical research who is the original father. And the Vedānta-sūtra also says, "God is He who is the original father of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).
Prabhupāda: That is natural. Everyone wants to become higher than what he is. Because he is trying to become master. He is trying to... His whole problems is that he is trying to be master. So he comes to master to some extent. Suppose he is working in an office, he is a head clerk, master of several clerks. So he is not satisfied. He wants to become a superintendent. When he becomes a superintendent, he wants to be under-secretary. When he is under-secretary, he wants to become secretary. When he becomes a secretary, he wants to become minister. When he is made minister, then he wants to be the president.
Prabhupāda: So we have seen it practically, this big swan is moving and the, they are also moving behind. The big one is jumping with water, and they are also jumping. They do not know where we are jumping, but they are jumping. The mother is swimming and they are swimming. This is natural.
Hayagrīva: But in Kṛṣṇa consciousness isn't knowledge rather than faith the basis for action?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not Vedic philosophy. Vedic philosophy admits that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is natural. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
- ahastāni sahastānām
- apadāni catuṣ-padām
- phalgūni tatra mahatāṁ
- jīvo jīvasya jīvanam
Those who have got hands, they eat the animals without hands, only four legs, and the four-legged animals eats the animals which cannot move—that means plants and vegetables.
Prabhupāda: So to possess the knowledge of God, the best duty of man is to take knowledge from God about God. I know myself, that he says, that God knows Himself. So if God knows, that is natural. I know what I am. So if you take knowledge of me from me instead of speculating, that is perfect knowledge. So here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the God is explaining Himself. So if you simply take the knowledge given by God, that is your perfected knowledge of God. Why you are speculating? You are wasting time. Take the knowledge from God about Him, and then you have perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: This is natural. This is just like the other day I was saying that on the Hawaii Island we are standing, we know that the proprietor, the government, is there. So just after few yards there is the sea. Then we can conjecture: if the land has the proprietor, the sea has also proprietor. We have not seen who is the proprietor of the land, or the governor of the land. Similarly, there is a governor, proprietor, of the sea and the sky, but we have not seen. That does not mean there is no proprietor.
Prabhupāda: Then anywhere, anywhere, somebody is working and somebody is... Just like in our body even, the hand is working, the leg is working, but the brain is giving direction. That is natural. How the working class will work without the direction of someone, experienced person?
Hayagrīva: Concerning men and women and the qualities, Comte felt that women were inferior physically, intellectually, and practically to men, but that they surpassed men in goodness and love. He writes, "In all kinds of force, whether physical, intellectual, or practical, it is certain that man surpasses women in accordance with a general law which prevails throughout the animal kingdom. If there were nothing else to do but to love, women would be supreme."
Prabhupāda: So that is natural distinction between man and woman, so how it can be changed? Woman is meant for certain activities and man is meant for certain activities. So how this can be changed? Artificially if you change it, it cannot be changed. Then, just like woman becomes pregnant, man does not become pregnant. How it will be changed?
Hayagrīva: Well from this he concludes that woman, being dominated by love, is morally superior to man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is that enjoyable life. He cannot define, definitely, what is that enjoyable life. He is simply hankering after it. That is natural. But he does not know definitely what is that enjoyable life.
Hayagrīva: As close as he comes to a definition of it, he says, "We simply arrange a world in which serious conflicts occur as seldom as possible, or, with a little luck, not at all."
Prabhupāda: What does it mean? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's trying to make an ideal arrangement where no conflicts come about.
Prabhupāda: That is materially impossible.
Prabhupāda: Leader must be there, religious or not religious. Everyone has leader. The Communist has got leader, and the spiritualists, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have also leader. So without leader nothing can be done. They may defy leadership, they may defy authority, but one who defies authority, he wants to become authority. So this is natural. Without leader nothing can be done.
Hayagrīva: That's the end of B. F. Skinner.
Purports to Songs
Hearing is so important. Therefore Govinda dāsa says, śravaṇa. Śravaṇa means hearing. And one who has heard nicely, his next stage will be kīrtanam. Just like our boys who have heard a little nicely, now they are very eager to chant, going from street to street. This is natural sequence. It is not that you hear, but you remain stopped. No. The next stage will be kīrtanam. Either by chanting vibration or by writing or by speaking or by preaching, the kīrtana will be there. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, first hearing and then chanting. And hearing and chanting about whom? About Viṣṇu, not for any nonsense. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). These things are stated in the śāstra. The ordinary people, they are also engaged in hearing and chanting. They are hearing in the newspaper of some politician, and the whole day they are discussing and chanting, "Oh, this man is going to be elected.
| Page Title: | That is natural (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 10 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=102, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 102 |