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That is natural (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: I notice that most of your followers, at least in this temple, are young, like in the college age or in the teenage. Is it because Kṛṣṇa doesn't attract the older generation, I mean, yourself excluded?

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone. Just like magnetic stone attracts iron. But the iron is covered with too much muddy things—the magnetic force does not work. This younger generation, they are not too much dirty; therefore they are very easily attracted. You see? It is like a magnetic force. The same example, that magnetic force attracts iron. That is natural. But if the iron is too much rusty and covered with muddy things, then it does not act. So older generation means they are convinced in some way. They cannot accept any new thing. You see? They are in the last stage of life. Whatever they have understood, they cannot forget. But younger generation, they have got capacity to take new things. Just like nobody goes... No old man goes to school because they are unable to receive education. But younger generation, they go. So there is a age to receive. So this age is recipient. Therefore naturally—it is nice thing—they are receiving.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: ...the whole atmosphere, you should come and disturb. You are making... You cannot understand? And the whole attention is diverted to you. So harā, harā is the form of the word... Hare is the form of the word harā when address, when She is addressed. And Kṛṣṇa, when He's addressed, the form does not change. This is grammatical rule. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh, the energy of Kṛṣṇa, or energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa, "the Lord." So Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means I am praying not only to the Lord, but to the energy also. This is natural. Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So engage all yourselves in the service of Kṛṣṇa. It is very pleasing, and what is called encouraging, enlivening. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is frustration. That stage is coming to your country. Therefore the boys are becoming hippies. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is—that is natural-frustration. There is a good example in our country, one Mr. C.R. Das. He was a great leader, next to Gandhi, important political leader. So he was on the topmost of... He was lawyer, barrister. He was earning fifty thousand dollars monthly, very rich man. And he was making charity, and he was spending like thing (anything). He was drunkard number one, woman-hunter number one, and everything. Because he had money he could enjoy everything. But he was not happy. So one day he was sitting with his wife. Just like in the street, he was looking over.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: So at that time one mendicant, a sannyāsī was passing. So Chittaranjan said, "I want to be like him. Then I will be happy. I don't want to enjoy. I want to beggar, to be beggar-like." You see? So that time is coming to your country. So these hippies, they are frustrating. They have given up everything. We can study their psychic movement. They are not satisfied. That is the main principle. That is natural, to accept adversity voluntarily, adversity. So this is frustration. But before reaching to that point of frustration, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you reach the real standard of happiness because everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. I shall give you another example. Suppose you have stolen something from somebody's house or some friends. You will not be happy, even possessing that thing, stolen property. But if someday you come to return that thing to that friend, you will be happy. What do you think, Hayagrīva?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. After finishing karma-kāṇḍīya life... Karma-kāṇḍīya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kāṇḍīya. So... But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Because actually when one chants Lord Kṛṣṇa's name, Lord's name, immediately he remembers Lord's form, activities, pastimes, everything. That is natural.

Himāvatī: Not that he was unconsciously just chanting and the Lord saved him in that way, but he actually remembered the Lord.

Prabhupāda: That is the remark of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. But according to others' opinion, even simply by chanting, that is sufficient. In the Bhāgavata it is stated like that. But Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has remarked that this chanting referred to the context. Immediately he remembered Nārāyaṇa.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is natural form. That is not a conventional form. Just like you have dressed yourself with black coat. It is not your natural form. So material...

Guest (1): Has spirit no want?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no want.

Guest (1): Without it, you see...

Prabhupāda: Everything you desire, it is present immediately.

Guest (1): You mean the spirit has got subtle form, though it may be exact form?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Many millions of Vaiṣṇavas and... Just like this gentleman. He is a commander of the Air, India Air Lines. So he's not my disciple, but he's a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, in India millions and trillions there are, Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. And practically there is not a single... Even there are Mohammedan Kṛṣṇa conscious. In Allahabad University there is a Mohammedan professor. He's a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So this is natural. It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened only by this process. That's all. It is there in your heart also. It is not that it is foreign to you. It is not that. Everyone's heart, there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By this process we have to awaken that. Śravaṇādi śuddha citte karaye udaya. Udaya. You know this word udaya. Just like sun rises. It is not that sun all of a sudden comes from somewhere. It is there, but it rises in the morning.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is natural. Similarly, if God is the root of everything, as we understand from Vedānta-sūtra. God means the original root of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The description of Absolute Truth, of God is there in the Vedānta-sūtra. The first aphorism is, "What is God?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā, inquiry about God. The next aphorism is "God is that which is the root of everything, from which everything emanates." That is the perfect definition of God, the origin of everything. So the same example as God, that the root is the origin of the whole tree.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no need to make this propaganda all over the world. But actually, the saintly persons have concern. Just like the other day I told you, Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned that these rascals for temporary so-called... (break) ...people are engaged unnecessarily to work very hard day and night, the capitalist, the worker. Big, big factory, iron factory, in so many factories, unnecessarily. So Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned. He was living, his father was a demon, in the demonic state. So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: No. Everyone thinks like that. Suppose I have to purchase one coat. I consult my pocket, "What kind of shirt I shall purchase?" Everyone knows. But if you say you are not interested, that is different thing. But any man who is going to purchase a new shirt and coat, he considers before going to the tailor's house, what kind of shirt he will have, what kind of coat. Everyone thinks. That is natural. You cannot deny it. Whether it will be suitable, whether it will be comfortable. So many things, everyone considers. And then he goes to a storehouse and orders, "Give me this kind of coat, this kind of shirt." Why you can say that nobody is interested in that? Everyone is interested.

Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

My babyhood body also, I remember, particularly. When I was about six months old, I still remember very vividly, I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister, and she was knitting. I remember still. Yes, six months. I remember when I was only about one year old, there was a great saṅkīrtana in our house and I also joined the dancing party. And I was seeing up to their knees, very small. So I remember those days. And then after that, I was a boy. I was very much fond of cycling. So many things. Yes. So many dangers, so many adventures. Now I am old man. So all those different stages of body, I remember. But these bodies are not existing. So similarly, I remember or forget, but I was in different types of body—that's a fact. So similarly, after leaving this body, I will have another body. That is natural conclusion. What is the difficulty? Why I shall conclude that after end of this body? (end)

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Guest (2): I see. So you are saying that if you ask for something now, you may not immediately get it. You may get it in another birth.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. Just like these children. If he says, "Give me one boy." Is it possible? He has to wait. (laughter) Suppose a girl is married. If the girl says, "Give me immediately boy," is it possible? When she's married there will be. Wait.

Guest (2): Maybe somebody like Kuntī can do that.

Prabhupāda: Well, everyone is not Kuntī. So let us go. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Give her some position, and she's very influential, rich. But everyone wants some post, that is natural. Therefore I told, offered her the presidency of Bombay Trust. To raise the fund. In Bombay we have got very nice place. The best place of anywhere. And it is so nice in summertime, you'll find in paradise. So many coconut trees. You have seen?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: And we are, Nara-nārāyaṇa has been engaged to make it a nice garden. All vacant land, we are getting nice garden, and the owner of the land, he has given me the best facility. First of all, the land is worth minimum 30,000,000 rupees.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Your mother, your mother must be intelligent because you are intelligent. Your mother must be intelligent. Without mother being intelligent, no intelligent son comes out. A son inherits the quality of mother, and the daughter inherits the quality of father. This is natural.

Revatīnandana: The letter is so... She's told me, she says, "Two reasons I want to hear from you: one, I want to know how you are," that's the body. She says also, "I'm interested in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement," because she's noticed that the devotees...

Prabhupāda: That is mother's anxiety. You see all this?

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyway, you serve Kṛṣṇa and then your mother will be best served. Kṛṣṇa will favor all the family members of a devotee. You have seen from Prahlāda Maharaja's statement. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that anyone coming to become His devotee, He takes care of the family of the devotee-spiritually, for their emancipation. That is natural. Just like government. If somebody dies on the warfield, the government takes care of the whole family. Similarly, if the government has so much sense, do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is nonsense? He also takes care of the family of the devotee. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Where is Nanda Kumāra, Pradyumna?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: It will get worse when you leave, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: When I will... It will get better, as soon as I go away. (devotees sigh)

Karandhara: No. No.

Prabhupāda: It will get..., that is natural. It will not stay. But I'm not going out for this weather, don't misunderstand me. My physicians asked me, therefore... I'm accustomed to this... (end)

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God. We should offer respect to such person exactly like God. That is our instruction of the ācāryas. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **. In every śāstra the spiritual master is recognized as personally the Supreme Lord. But in... Why he is recognized? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Because he's the most dear servant of the Lord. And that is natural.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is... That is natural. That is natural. Suppose if, after my death, I am going to become something lower than my present position, certainly I must be afraid of it.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if somebody gives me... This is a fact. Recently one astrologer has said that one of the biggest politicians in India, he has now become a dog in Sweden. May be correct or not, but there is possibility. There is possibility.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But that body is no longer there; your childhood body, that is not existing. Now you are existing in a different body. So you were existing, that's a fact. Because you remember. But that body's not existing. Similarly, when this body will not exist, you'll exist. This is natural conclusion. Your, that childhood body is no longer existing. Your youthhood body is no longer existing. That's a fact. And it is also a fact that you had such and such body. Therefore you, as the soul, you are permanent, even changing so many types of bodies. Similarly, the conclusion should be when you give up this body, you'll be in another body.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Find out this.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, but its business is to serve the body. I ask the finger: "Come here." It is doing like that. I ask the finger to: "Come here." It is doing like that. So it is the business of the finger is to serve the whole. It is part. And the body is the whole. Therefore the business of the part and parcel is to serve, render service to the whole. This is natural condition.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: I agree with this...

Prabhupāda: Let me finish.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. And I think that the vocation of each creature is the service of God, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is rascaldom. We have divided already four classes of men. Even in Russia... Even in Russia, I have seen, they have created two classes, the worker class, the manager class. I have seen it. Yes. So you cannot say that everyone will do the same work. That is not possible. I have given already the example, the brain, the arms, the abdomen and the leg. The leg cannot do the work of brain. Leg can cooperate with the brain, but cannot do the work of brain. This is natural position.

Yogeśvara: He asks: In our society do these four divisions also exist?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Yogeśvara: In ISKCON, are there these four divisions?

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. That is natural. Only the strong devotees, they don't like. "No, I don't want to see anything. I want to go immediately to Kṛṣṇa." That is strong devotion. Because they are after, mad after seeing Kṛṣṇa. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. For them, the whole universe is vacant for want of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you love somebody, if he's not seen, you see, in spite of so many cars, you see the whole city of Paris, void, void. You don't give you any pleasure. A strong love for Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam means everything vacant. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant. What is the value of this house or this city? He doesn't take. So higher planetary system means better standard of life. Just like if Indian comes here, materially, they see the higher standard of life in Paris, in London. But because we are interested in Kṛṣṇa, we do not take very much care of this higher standard of life.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: On account of this bodily concept of life they have taken that this earth or the place where the body is born, that has become worshipable. That is nationalism. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. And from my body there is relationship with my wife, with my children, therefore they are my own men. There are hundreds and thousands of women, but one woman who has got bodily connection, she's my wife. I have to do so many things for her. Similarly children, the bodily connection. The whole material civilization, nationalism, socialism, this ism, that ism, everything based on this bodily concept of life. But one who is in bodily concept of life, he is no better than cows and asses. So in the human form of life, because of the developed consciousness, there is inquiry, what I am. What I am. Am I this body or I'm something else other than this body? This is natural inquiry, and the Vedānta-sūtra begins from this inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the animal concept of life the inquiry is where is my food, where is my shelter, where is my sex, where is my defense.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the original status of the living entity. Just like a son is conscious always that "I am the son of such and such person." This consciousness is natural. So living entities, when they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Because we are all parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. It cannot be broken. A person may go mad. But when he's cured, he immediately understands that "I belong to such and such family, such and such gentleman's son." That is natural. Similarly in the contact of this material nature, the spiritual spark, living entity, he's in madness. You are a psychiatrist. You know very well. Every man is more or less a madman.

Dr. Hauser: Or he has the germ within himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say in a Bengali poetry:

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We don't find anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You should concentrate, meditate in darkness." We take it as bogus. No religious system, even in Christianity, there is no such thing as darkness. Christian churches are very much illuminated. They pray. Prayer is there. The necessity. Why in darkness? That is his invention. Neither in Hinduism, neither in Buddhism, there is such recommendation that "You pray in the darkness." Therefore it is bogus. Not standard. Why darkness? Naturally, if you make this room dark, you will feel sleepy. That is natural tendency.

Lady: (indistinct) meditation?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Smith Stanstreet, an English company. They gave me an agency. So some of my enemy... He was my, he was my employer, but he gave information that I am also manufacturing now, drug and chemical works. So they informed them that "He's pushing his own goods, not your goods." They... He wanted that agency. Yes. In this way, because as soon as you come in the... Even in the spiritual field, my godbrothers are envious. You see? So as soon as you become successful, there will be many enemies. That is natural. That is the sign of success. In your business, if there are many enemies, competitor, that means you are successful. So anyway, Kṛṣṇa has brought me to the right path. So I may not fall down. That's all. (laughter) When I was reading this verse, that yasyāham anugṛhnāmi hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8), Kṛṣṇa said that "When I show somebody My special favor, I take away all his money," I became shuddered, "So Kṛṣṇa will take my all money?

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But you cannot assimilate all the answers in one day. That is not possible. You see. You have many questions, but ask in many days, not in one day. Otherwise you will get indigestion. (laughter) You will not be able to... Simply you go on questioning, questioning, and don't take anything. That is no use. Take. Make one question. Try to understand. Adopt it in life. Then make another question. Don't take all the answers at a time and become suffering in dysentery. No. (laughter) Don't do that. That's alright. You cannot take one month's food in one hour. Can you take? So that's alright. Gradually. Your questions are nice, but don't take the answers all in a day. That will be not good. If you understand very easily, then you will forget very easily.

Guest (2): That is natural. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Natural, you see. If you understand little with difficulty, then you will forget also with difficulty. This is the way. So any other question?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But these rascals, even though are suffering three kinds of pains, tri-tāpa-yatna. Just like why you are covered? Because there is pain. Severe cold, similarly severe heat. So we are suffering, either summer season or winter season. We are suffering, tri-tāpa-yatna. There is suffering from our mind, from our body—this is natural suffering. There is bodily suffering, mental suffering, then suffering caused by other living entities. So we are always suffering. But still they're thinking that "We are happy." The disease is already there. Ah? Just like the Arabian do not want to give you petrol. That means there's suffering caused by other nations. So this is going on. They're simply trying to settle up. But the suffering is there. But they're not in their knowledge, that in spite of all their endeavors, the sufferings are there. What is the cause? Then whom shall I go to ask why the suffering is there?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surāśū-sākṣimat. Surāśū-sākṣimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see? Surāśū-sākṣimat. So that is māyā, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), misusing power and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also. But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?" This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you take the right one?

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural, if a big man, he reveals to his confidential secretaries, not to everyone.

Karandhara: Just like Guru Maharaji. He says you cannot understand that he is God unless you believe in him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That he'll say, "Everyone is God". But there is comparative God. He cannot say that he is as good God as Kṛṣṇa.

Karandhara: Well, he says that. He says he is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, why? You have not shown any lifting of Govardhana Hill.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, what things are happening naturally? Your father begets you, therefore you talk. Naturally you have not come. If your father would not begotten you through your mother, how did you come? Naturally your mother does not become pregnant. What things happening naturally?

Karandhara: No. By the father impregnating the mother, that is natural, naturally.

Prabhupāda: Why naturally? If father does not pregna... There are so many now "bachelor-daddies." Nothing can be took natural. Nature is an instrument.

Karandhara: Well, they say that some say that nothing was actually ever created, so there is no need for...

Prabhupāda: Everything is created. That is rascaldom. He is speaking. He is created by his father, the rascal who is talking like that. You were created by your father.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Exactly like that. A child needs parents and absolute surrender to parents. That is natural.

Prajāpati: He needs parents to be born at all, he need parents that he can rely on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that he may grow. That Upendra's wife and child. The child is so restless, not for a single moment. And the mother has to take care, "No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no." She requires a mother to take care.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the child is automatically taken care of by the parents.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he does not know. Child is foolish. He does not know. Similarly, everything is taken care of by God. He is supplying food, He is supplying seasons, He is supplying lights, everything I require. But we are so rascals, we are denying Him. You see?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Then the spiritual master has to go every time, to fall down? Because people will touch. That is natural. And he has to jump over the water every time?

Nitāi: In the purport you gave recommendation that generally it is not a good practice to let them, unless they are at least your devotees.

Prabhupāda: Generally, it is not practiced, but if people come, how can you check them? (pause) So we were talking about Darwin's theory, eh? What is that?

Nitāi: It is survival of the fittest, his evolutionary theory?

Prabhupāda: Now, we talked about that if you do not take my documentary, what is called, evidence, why shall I take your documentary?

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is natural. He thinks, "I am motorcar." He identifies. (japa)

Satsvarūpa: We say sense gratification is available for everyone, but they don't agree. They think, "If I don't have this nice apartment it's not the same as sleeping in a bad condition."

Prabhupāda: Bad condition, good condition, that is another thing. But you get it. You get it. Bad condition, good condition, that is my consideration, but things are available. Even the best apartment in India, that is not a good apartment for America. This is simply my mental concoction: "This is good; that is bad." I am thinking, "It is the best;" another may think, "Oh, it is lowest." The hog is thinking stool is very nice food, and I am thinking, "What is this nonsense thing?" So "best" and "good", it is simply mental concoction, it has no value. Just like these western people, what is their ultimate standard of best, nobody knows. Nobody knows. Just like hundred years before, there was no skyscraper building, but now even best skyscraper building is not best. So where is the standard of best and... It is all mental concoction.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "...with my family member shall come to fight with me, so what shall I say, that I have to kill my nephew, I have to kill my brother, I have to kill my grandfather, this is the fight? No, no I am not going to fight. Let them all fight." That is natural. So read it.


vepathuś ca śarīre me
roma-harṣaś ca jāyate
gāṇḍīvaṁ sraṁsate hastāt
tvak caiva paridahyate
(BG 1.29)

Prabhupāda: "So how can I kill my brother and nephew and others, family members? So my bow is dropping." Go on.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that, that is natural. If you give good instruction to a rascal, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good instruction... But give him practical. "Come here. Sit down. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And help me by doing this." In this way you have to... Just like a child. Child does not want to go to school, but some, by... Find out some means so that he'll be induced. That is intelligence. He'll be angry, naturally. He's a rascal. He'll be angry. That is not unnatural. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Just like a snake. You feed the snake with milk. It will increase the poison. That's all. Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Quarreling between husband and wife, that is natural. That is explained in the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... Dam-patye kalahe caiva bambhārambhe laghu kriyā (?). The quarreling will be very humbug, big, but the result will be nothing.

Dr. Patel: Nothing. These American boys, they quarrel with their wives. The next day...

Prabhupāda: Because there is no...

Guest (1): They will immediately quarrel.

Dr. Patel: No, no, no. Here, because the Hindu... (break)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion?

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...philosophers, Vedāntists. They were small children, woman, village persons and animals. But they were so much, I mean to say, full with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the perfection. (break) They're so fortunate. (break) Anxiety is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa, nothing else but Kṛṣṇa: "How Kṛṣṇa was smiling with us, how He was playing." That is natural. If you have got love for anyone.

Dr. Patel: "What will happen to us when He is not there?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: To think, it surrounds...

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, this much cloth... But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will be satisfied with the minimum necessities of life. That is natural. You won't demand.

Yogeśvara: So actually such a program can only be successful proportionately with the rise of Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the main basic principle. Without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you arrange like this, that will never be successful.

Yogeśvara: They won't be satisfied.

Prabhupāda: No.

Bhagavān: The kṣatriyas make sure that people are correct, acting correctly, that no one is taking more than what they need?

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, because they have no knowledge. How we can enjoy life without knowledge? They also accept that for this comfortable situation they require knowledge. The engineering knowledge, this knowledge, that knowledge. But that knowledge is not sufficient. You require another knowledge. That you are lacking. You are deficient in that knowledge, self-realization. That is the defect. This knowledge will not help you. For eating, sleeping knowledge, this child, if I give him some eatable, immediately he knows the knowledge, "This is eatable. I shall capture it and put it in the mouth." It doesn't require any education. That is natural. If I love this child, he will respond. This knowledge is already there. Even a dog, "Tch, tch, tch, come on, come on," he will come. So for this eating, sleeping, mating, the knowledge is there in the animals, in the children. That doesn't require any advanced knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (To child) Come on. Come on, yes. Very intelligent. (laughing) Thank you very much.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: I understand your point. That we also say, that any living entity has to live by eating another living entity. That is natural. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. It is said in the Vedic literature that one living entity is the food for another living entity.

C. Hennis: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Why? "Because you are kṣatriya. There is fight, war, you must fight. You are meant for..." Just like my hands, kṣatriya. If there is attack it is hand's duty to protect me. The hand is being asked to give protection. That is natural. If I go to attack you, immediately you spread your hand. This is the duty of the hand. So when there is attack, the other's party, they have come to fight. You must fight because you are hand.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: What is the other logic? If you have changed your body so many times, why not change this body? What is your reason? Natural course it should be that I have changed so many bodies so this body I shall change. This is natural logic. And what is his logic?

Satsvarūpa: So he said... They say it may be or it may not be.

Prabhupāda: But that is your rascaldom. But this is the real logic.

Guru-gaurāṅga: They also say that it is not... It is the same body, more or less...

Prabhupāda: Same body...

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He does not forget, but he... Just like the same example. You call it forgetfulness or imitation. Just like the child was offering. He was not required to offer oblation, but he was imitating the mother. That is natural. According to Vedic instruction, we are all living entities. God is also a living entity. But He is chief. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), (break) ...that He is the topmost living entity, leader of the all other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The supreme one is maintaining all other living entities. So we are maintained. And He is maintainer. So sometimes... (to translator:) Yes, explain. There is... Sometimes it happens the father maintains the children, but the same child sometimes gives up the protection of the father. "Why shall I live under the guidance of...? I shall become independent."

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, he said that is natural. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says religious life is a very deep thing on man and he has to search out, and that must be his goal. Even if there is no reason, it doesn't matter. He has to search.

Prabhupāda: No. Then how he can explain from zero something so important come into existence? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says actually he doesn't start from zero. He starts from the cosmic force.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but as soon as you become strong, naturally there will be more enemies. That is natural. Therefore last night I said, "If there is no understanding of God, where is religion?" This is not religion, the cheating. There cannot be any conception of religion without conception of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the law given by God. So if you have no idea about God, where is your religion? Religion does not mean some formalities. No, that is not religion. Formalities we have also, but we have clear conception of God. Here is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose I am thief and somebody accuses you that "He is a thief." So I don't take it seriously because I know, "I am also thief." Means these appeal, that does not appeal because "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If everyone is thief, if you point out somebody that "He is thief, he cannot be trusted," then he knows that "I am also thief. It is not a big problem. I am also thief." Unless the whole public is sinless, he cannot appreciate a sinless leader. Care care mastado bhāi (?). This is natural. If I am thief, so what is the use of accusing you by other, "He is also thief." You'll take that "We all are thieves, all cousin brothers; so why this man should be only accused?"

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) Just from distance, not so near. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Duḥkha. Duḥkha means suffering. Ālayam. Ālayam means place. So the creator of this universe, the Supreme Lord, He is saying, "This is a place for suffering." And it is called Mṛtyu-loka, "For death, the planets for dying." That means death is unnatural to the eternal soul. But anywhere you live within this material world, you will die. That is material world. Either you live as a Brahmā or live as a small insect, ant, you must die. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate: (BG 8.19) death and again take birth, death and again take birth. But these rascals, they do not know: "This is natural, that's all." That one can stop this death and birth, they have no knowledge. And still, they are big, big scholars. They do not know that this movement is for stopping birth and death. Do they understand this?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, our basic principle is pleasure. So whatever gives pleasure, we accept. That is natural. But in the material world, they take material pleasure, but we are for spiritual pleasure. So as soon as we speak of pleasure, there must be varieties. Without... Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So the only thing is that the material pleasure, that is temporary. It is finished after certain period, and spiritual means eternal. So our endeavor is to transfer ourself from this material pleasure to the spiritual pleasure. But the pleasure is the aim, either in this material world or in the spiritual world. This is... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedic... Our position is ānandamaya, to remain in pleasure. But here in this material world, the body is temporary, and everything is temporary. Therefore pleasure is temporary.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: How the son can be otherwise? If the father is eternal, the son is also eternal. The son cannot be... Because son is the expansion, part and parcel of the father, so all the qualities of the father are there. The only quality difference is the father maintainer and the sons are maintained. That means the father has got unlimited resources to maintain the sons, and the sons, they have no resources. They are maintained by the father. This is perfect philosophy. Otherwise, if you are self-sufficient, then why you go to church and beg father, "Give us our daily bread"? That is... That means you are maintained. You are begging the father, "Please maintain us." So if the Supreme Being, who is maintaining millions of trillions of living entities, He is great, or the living entities who are maintained by God, they are great? Therefore God is great, and we are subordinate. This is natural conclusion. How you can go otherwise? If you are self-sufficient, why go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread"? Are you independent?

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by elderly sons. That is natural.

Female Reporter: That goes against the thinking of a lot of people in America now. Do you know that?

Prabhupāda: No... America, maybe, but this is the natural position. Women require protection.

Female Reporter: Who decides who's natural? And what's natural?

Prabhupāda: Natural means just like in psychology it is said that woman, the highest brain substance of woman is thirty-six ounce, whereas the highest brain substance of man is sixty-four ounce. So there is difference by nature, of the brain.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, that is natural defeat. You cannot avoid it. (laughter)

Female Reporter: I can't what?

Devotee: You cannot avoid it.

Female Reporter: Again, what do you do to have a good time in New York?

Prabhupāda: A sixteen-years-old boy can travel all over the world, and it is very difficult for a sixteen-years-old girl to travel all over the world. (pause)

Reporter: Thank you, Swamiji.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So you, every one of you, can become guru. You may say that "I am not interested to become a guru," but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that if you are not interested, that is not very good. You should be interested. You must be guru. That is success of your life. You can speak the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, even to your family. That also guru. You are actually guru. The father or the head of the family is guru to the children, to the wife. In India still, the wife addresses the husband as pati-guru. And father is guru. That is natural. So why don't you become real guru to your wife, to your children, and instruct Bhagavad-gītā as it is? This is our mission. You sit down in the evening, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and teach little instruction from the Bhagavad-gītā. See how the life changes. Is that very difficult task? Boliye.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, methods I have all explained. Kṛṣṇa bhakta means do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śilānam (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like Arjuna did. He did not like to fight with his cousin-brothers, but after hearing instruction of Kṛṣṇa, he said, "Yes," naṣṭo mohaḥ, "my illusion is now over." Smṛtir labdhā: "I have got my consciousness." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: (BG 18.73) "I shall act as You are saying, that's all." This is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. We may have different decisions. That is natural. But when you agree to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to agree. Kṛṣṇa does not force; He says, "Do this like this," and if we agree, then we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, attachment to the body is not bad. Just like you have got a nice car. So you have got attachment for it. But you must know that you are not the car. That everyone can... A child can understand. But because I have got attachment for something, it does not mean I am that thing. I have got attachment for so many things. That is natural. Anything I possess, I have got attachment. But that does not mean I am that thing. But here the mistake is that because we have got attachment for the body, I am identifying myself as the body. That is ignorance, illusion.

Young man: Yes, but one is egocentric... My egoism is very close to my body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone says "I am." But the mistake is: he is thinking "I am this body." That... When one is in knowledge, he understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." The "I am" is there. But "I am" is now falsely identified with this body. That has to be cured. Then spiritual knowledge begins.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: This is sinful. When we have got so many things to eat, why shall I go to kill an animal, eat it? So these are anartha. Anartha means "without any meaning." So these things become vanquished. If one is actually engaged in devotional service, the first symptom will be that he is not interested in things which are unwanted, artificial. These are the stages. Then niṣṭhā. Niṣṭhā means firm conviction. Then ruciḥ, taste. Then āsaktiḥ, attachment. Then bhāva, and then prema. So as a student is serious, he gets promotion to next higher class, higher class, higher class, higher class, gradually to the M.A. class. That is natural. But if in the beginning he is not serious, no enthusiasm, then what is the reason that he will be promoted to the higher section? That is not possible.

Indian man: No, enthusiasm is there, but there are breaks.

Prabhupāda: Breaks means he is not serious.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, that is the way. You read any book. You try to understand, to know something about the author. That is natural.

Indian man: When He rips up (unclear) pārtha, that's enough, just we will start out. Then when He say, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, again we will go to Him. But we need not go through...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is needed. That is needed. That is needed. If you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, how you will accept it?

Indian man: I will accept, but not as Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata. I may not know anything about Him as of...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not very good theory. You do not know anything about Him, and you surrender to Him. What is this?

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: War means destruction of all cities. That is natural. You have got experience in Europe so many times.

Haṁsadūta: Cities and industries.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: Cities and industries.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the main target.

Haṁsadūta: Nobody's interested in a farm. (break)

Jayādvaita: ...endeavor, pure devotees are automatically expert in politics, economics, everything.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: They, they're not real communists. Real communist we are. Actually see. All people from all parts of the world, professing different religions, different path of life. Still they are joined. This is natural. Kṛṣṇa community.

Devotee (1): So this war... You mentioned a couple of minutes ago that this war almost broke out once before when America aimed all of its weapons at India. So it could happen at any time. It could happen very shortly then.

Prabhupāda: That war was also Russian instigated. This war, last war between Pakistan and India, was practically between India and Pakistan, uh, yes...

Devotee (1): Russia.

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh... So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is natural for the fools because they cannot think of it, that one can talk with God. But God says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) "After giving up this body, the devotees come to Me." Then where, what you will do there? He'll talk or not talk?

Rāmeśvara:: There he'll talk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then? There is process, how to talk with God. But these rascals, they do not know. They think it is all imagination. They do not know.

Rāmeśvara: But we are so insignificant. Why should God waste His time talking with us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are sons. Although you are insignificant, you are God's sons. So He likes to talk with His sons. Just like a small child. Everyone knows that he cannot talk. Still, father tries to make him talking, to enjoy. Māyāpur-candrodaya Temple is teaching all these fools and rascals how to talk with God. That is our mission. (break)

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That caste system is already there. We are also..., we have got poor class, rich class. The Communists, they have also worker class, manager class, although the Communists against class system. But I have seen, they have made this classification: worker class, manager class. Why do you make this? That is efficiency. Leader class, follower class. Otherwise there will be chaos. This is natural.

Amogha: The divisions of work are naturally there. You can't avoid them.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth. The kṣatriyas, they came out of the arms. The vaiśyas, they came out of the belt. And the śūdras, they came out of the legs. This is mantra. How you can avoid it? Kṛṣṇa says, "It is My creation. How you can avoid it?" You cannot avoid anything which is created by Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine. It is created by Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say, "No, no. I don't want sunshine." That is foolishness. If you want to avoid, then you'll suffer. The sunshine is there, and if you go into the dark place, and cover yourself, then the sunshine is outside, that's all. The sun may not suffer—you'll suffer. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "This caste system is created by Me." If you don't accept it, then you'll suffer. Kṛṣṇa will not suffer. (leaves car) ...introducing the caste system, we are introducing a system which, you follow, you'll be happy. Not caste system. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (in room:)

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. It is good. But they are not led by good leader. Otherwise next alternative is this, that you have to give up this artificial way of civilization. Now this land is vacant. We can produce so much food grains if it is utilized. Fruits, flower, vegetables, grains—we can produce. This land is very good land for producing potato, watermelon, this. Very good land. But who is doing that? This is the suitable land for producing watermelon. And watermelon is such a nice thing, and potato. You boil potato and take watermelon, you have full nourishment are supplied. Very innocent and simple food.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Just like they are taking petrol. This is natural resources. They are taking continually.

Paramahaṁsa: But he says the CSIRO, most of the people there are involved in researching how to exploit the natural resources more. So he's a little bit different because he's trying to present a clear warning that this is happening. But then again he doesn't have any potency to stop it. It seemed that when you were speaking to him he related bodily consciousness with the selfishness of the industrialists when they're exploiting natural resources like that.

Prabhupāda: They are doing so many things. They are killing cows for their own benefit. So many animals they are killing. Birds.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is natural, that you think of future. But the foolishness is you don't think of your future. That is foolishness. This is natural. Because every living entity is eternal, therefore he has future. But for himself he is thinking, "There is no life, next." And he is thinking of the life which will come as his grandson or son, what will be their future. And he is blind about the own future. This is fourth-class man. Suppose some danger is coming. So shall I take care of you: "How you will be saved? How you will be saved?" How I will be saved—that is my first business. That he does not know. There have been many cases. There is all of a sudden fire. The man has left everything, and his baby was there. He was crying, "Oh, I have left my..." The natural tendency—"First of all save me." Self preservation is the first law of nature. So why did he forget about his baby? Now, when he comes out, he is thinking about baby. This is natural, that he does not think about himself; he is thinking about future generation.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. This is natural inclination, but if you can stop it, that is victory.

Jesuit: No, I can't accept that.

Prabhupāda: Now why you do not accept? In the Christian religion there is unmarried life.

Jesuit: Married life is a good life. The use of sex is good.

Prabhupāda: Good?

Jesuit: Eating is good. If it's abused it's bad.

Prabhupāda: No. Married life is good, that if you follow the rules and regulations. Otherwise...

Jesuit: Therefore sex, in itself, is good.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: God loves. That is natural, but you do not love, I do not love. That is the difficulty. Father loves the son; that is natural. But when the son does not love father that is a very precarious condition.

Jesuit: Good. Well, thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, jaya.

Jesuit: Thank you. We will pray for one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: God bless you. Goodbye everybody. (leaves.)

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: You have got that canteloupe? No.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the ripe age, up to the point of death one is sexually inclined. Up to the point of death. There was a minister of Agwar(?). I have told you this story? Yes. At the point of death he was looking to the young girl. That is natural. Unless one is trained up, that is natural. That is māyā's entrapping machine to keep the living entity within this material world.

Śrutakīrti: Sometimes the youth, when we offer them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "When I get older I won't be so attached to this enjoyment, so then I can take it up."

Prabhupāda: They generally think so, but that is not possible.

Śrutakīrti: That is not the fact.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He will think, "What is next? Is it finished here?" The rascal says, "No, after finishing, everything is finished." What is this? If there is evolution—you have come to this stage —then what is the next stage? That is natural. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Now you can go to the moon planet if you try. Moon planet, sun planet, Venus and so many. If you become serious. And you can go to God's planet, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Now you select where will you will go. But there is spiritual planet. But what is their theory? That after finishing this body, everything is finished.(?) They do not believe in the next life.

Bali-mardana: Therefore their life must be hopeless.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That means they also do not wish to work so hard. They are seeing that "Capitalists are sitting very comfortably and (we) working." They are also thinking, "Escaping." Is it not? So the natural tendency is that "I will not work, and still, I will get my necessities." That is natural tendency. The material world means avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīyā śaktir iśyate. This is out of ignorance they are working so hard. In the spiritual world there is no question of working. You get everything. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu. Everything, whatever you want. So why not endeavor to go there? Why should you work like hogs and dogs?

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So human civilization means by nature's way, by evolutionary process, he has come to this body of human being. He should now decide that whether he should remain in this chain of birth and death or he should get out of it and go to the spiritual world. This training required. So throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact. They are going just like fourth-class men. They have decided out of their own accord that there is no life after death. Young men say that there is no old age, but nature will not agree. Your next life is old age. That is natural. You cannot say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." You believe or not believe, it will come. Similarly, you believe or not believe, your next life is there. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: It has to be. If you don't, then you must suffer with all these criminals. That is natural. Just like in your body there is head, and there is arm, and there is belly, and there is leg. The head is the most important part. Why? Why not all legs? Why there are different divisions? Similarly, in the human society, if we want to make it perfect, there must be head, there must be arm, there must be belly, there must be legs. So leg can walk, but leg cannot do the work of brain. So at the present moment we have got all walking men, no brain. Therefore the society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain in the society. That is the defect of modern civilization. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and work, there are four divisions. (aside:)

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they will get the advantage of the son. Somehow or other, they have produced a son, Vaiṣṇava, so the son's activities will react upon the life of the parents. Because naturally the sons think of the father and mother, that is beneficial for them. However one may be renounced, he cannot get rid of family affection. That is natural. So the Vaiṣṇava son sometimes thinks of the father and mother. So they are getting the benefit.

Devotee: So sometimes the attachment is beneficial, then?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? We are trying to be attached with Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. Instead of having attachment with this whole material world, we are turning to transfer the attachment to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And they are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, committing sinful life, only for misunderstanding. They do not see that "Here are some persons. They do not eat meat. They look very bright-faced. Why should I eat meat?" Anartha, unnecessarily, simply for the taste of the tongue, they are committing so much sinful activities. So just we are teaching, "Just control your tongue." That is called śamaḥ damaḥ." Because the tongue wants something, I have to eat, give it—that is not human civilization. If I control my tongue-tongue wants this thing; I say, "No, not this thing; you take this thing,"—then you are master. You are master of the senses. Otherwise you are servant of the senses. Because some of my senses want something... That is natural. But if I can control: "No, this not. This," that is called śamaḥ, damaḥ. And if I become victim of the dictation of the senses, then I cannot make progress in my spiritual life; I am third-class, fourth-class man. Mind wants to steal something. If you can control, "No, why stealing?" Then you are master. (end)

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farming and cow protection and trade, this is meant for the third-class division. And worker, fourth-class. These divisions must be there. Then the society will go on very nicely. Exactly the same example, that if the different parts of the body—the brain, the arms, the belly and the legs—all are in order, the bodily function will go on very nicely. This is natural.

Woman reporter: Where do women fit into these four classes?

Prabhupāda: That I already explained. Women's position is subordinate to man. So if the man is first-class, the woman is first-class. If the man is second-class, the woman is second-class. If the man is third-class, the woman is third-class. In this... Because woman is meant for assisting man, so the woman becomes suitable according to the man, her husband.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?

Satsvarūpa: Many people today are willing to accept that. They say, "Yes, we're animals. We should enjoy our animal nature."

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. So first of all, the believers, they know that there is God. Now the next question will be "Who is God?" That is advanced knowledge.

Professor: Certainly lots of people have different answers.

Prabhupāda: Why there should be different...? President is one, and everyone knows he is one. Why there be lots... That means they do not know. If there is... Just like now Mr. Ford is president. So nobody can say, "Now Mr. John is president." Mr. Ford is president. You cannot say, "Mr. John is president," "Mr. such and such is president," "I suggest," "I..." "It may be like that." Why may be? Actually Mr. Ford is president. And one who says, "May be like this," he does not know who is the president. As soon as he says, "God may be like this," that means he does not know what is God. So there cannot be different description of God. God is one. One must know who is that God. That is education. Now, we are teaching that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Now it is up to you to test whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not God. But if you know what is God, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Para-dāreṣu. Mātravat para-dareṣu. That is the injunction of the śās... Other's wife. Not that "Oh, my wife is also my mother." Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.

Brahmānanda: They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The churches accept. It is already law.

Nitāi: This women's liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual. They're lesbians.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal. For rascal everything is difficult. Easy thing is made difficult by rascals. That is the proof that you are rascal. By nature one is supposed to surrender to the parents. This is easy. Why do you do not do this? This is natural. Just like you have surrendered to me. Why? Because you think I am superior, you have to take knowledge from me. So if you have to accept some superior for your guidance, how you can deny surrendering? You see, brahmacārī, he is being taught daṇḍavat śīraṣi, by touching the head. Yesterday we were talking of that brahmacārī? That is the instruction. Who is this boy?

Harikeśa: He's Kuṇḍali. He just came from New York.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prahupada: That is going on. Just like Mother Yaśodā. She would chastise Kṛṣṇa. But you will never find Nanda Mahārāja is ever chastising. Rather, when Kṛṣṇa was chastised, Nanda Mahārāja would come back and take Him on the lap: "All right, I shall punish Your mother," and call him (her?), chastise. And then Kṛṣṇa will stop His mouth: "No, no. Don't do this." It is natural that when the child is in the lower stage, minor stage, the mother takes more care. That is natural. (break) Such a big planet, sun, six months rotating on the northern side of the equator, six months on the southern side. It is never changed. Why?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is the change of understanding? It is natural. If you treat me as enemy, I treat you as enemy. That is natural. But brahma-jñāna means samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, that no distinction, "Everyone is Brahman." That is brahma-jñāna. What was the movement here of Mahatma Gandhi?

Indian man (1): There was a movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that movement?

Indian man (1): They used to call it...

Indian man (2): Satyagraha movement.

Indian man (1): Nonviolence.

Indian man (2): Fighting for the truth.

Prabhupāda: What was the truth?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty?

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If he hears about Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done nicely. śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathā kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa will help. And that is natural position, to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to act for Kṛṣṇa, to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is all right. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is the easiest process and genuine, without any failure. Ceto-darpana-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Devotee (3): When you say "genuine," that means that it works...

Prabhupāda: That is real spiritual activity. (aside:) Take it.

Devotee (3): So while one is chanting, he is automatically Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You must try, when your son is in danger, you must try. That is natural. That is not uncommon. You can save or not save, that is a different thing. But it is you duty, if somebody is under your protection, you must try to save him, even at the risk of your life. That is real protector.

Lokanātha: Do you have plans, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to comment on Rāmāyaṇa in future?

Prabhupāda: Hm? First of all finish my Bhāgavatam, then we shall talk of other things.

Indian man: Lord Brahmā took away the cows and the cowherd boys that Kṛṣṇa was playing with. At that time Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself just to (indistinct) about a year or so that these cows are all Kṛṣṇa expansions, but the gopīs were so much (indistinct) to (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct). Now he started, he doubted that gopīs are (indistinct) with Kṛṣṇa because these cowherds and ah, they are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa only, so he was not...

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. This is the fact. We make some arrangement, and after few years it becomes imperfect. They say the revolution required. Why? That is natural. And natural means a power which makes your arrangement spoiled. Then what is your brain? You have got some superior brain which nullifies your plan. Why don't you accept this?

Harikeśa: Like breaking the law and being thrown in jail...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...after you are caught...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Which way? This is natural lake or...?

Mahāmṣa: Yes, Prabhupāda. It never dries up. It stays full all year round.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gigantic. Like the Hyderabad lake.

Mahāmṣa: It looks bigger than the Hyderabad lake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bigger.

Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.

Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And if you take care of your own son, nobody will criticize you that "Why are you taking care of your own son, not others? Nobody will.... That is natural. That is explained in the Bhagavad.... Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu

(BG 9.29). He is equal to everyone. But one who is a devotee, "I take special care."

Dr. Patel: "He is in Me, and I am in him."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: That is why all the great bhaktas, all the great, I mean, say, Narsi Meta(?) or Mirabai, they have worshiped personal God and merged in personal God in toto. Their, that what we call that ego is washed away by the sacred, I mean, this thing of God. Our impersonal philosophers are there, but they are not so well known. That is why he said that personal God and, I mean, worshiping personal God, you are immediately raised to that status from where you will be able to get jñāna.

Page Title:That is natural (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:10 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=93, Let=0
No. of Quotes:93