Prabhupāda: Even a little understood, it can save him from the greatest danger. And śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. If one is not successful in this life, then he is given another chance next life. Where? Śucīnāṁ. In nice, transcendentalist, brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava devotee or pious man, in his family. Or less than, if he is less qualified, then he is given a chance to get his birth in a rich family. Both the families. In rich family he has no economic problem. And in a pious family he gets direct opportunity to, I mean to say, advance his past Kṛṣṇa consciousness again. So in these two families he gets another chance. But unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they immediately give up all principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Oh, I have got so much money without any labor. Let me enjoy." This is māyā. He does not think... Because he has no education that "You have got this opportunity that you have no economic problem. Take this opportunity for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Engage your full time to become a devotee." Nobody educates him. The poor boy or poor fellow is misguided. He gets his friend, "Oh you have got so much money. Let us enjoy." Eat drink be merry and enjoy. So he becomes again cats and dogs.
That is maya (Conv. and Letters)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira caurī kiyā abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khīra means... What is that called?
Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?
Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial.
Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity.
Prabhupāda: There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it—that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends māyā, or material existence. What is the difference between ordinary man and Kṛṣṇa conscious man? They are also living in this world, in this apartment. Everything is being utilized like others. We are also eating, sleeping also. But what is the difference? Our difference—that we accept that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa; others do not. That's all. That is māyā. Everything actually belongs to Kṛṣṇa. He does not know. He thinks, "It belongs to me," or "This, my nation, this, my country, this, that," so many things. He is manufacturing. And we know the simple truth, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So let everything be offered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Yes.
Kīrtanānanda: So we understand that in the material consciousness the living entity is being forced to act.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: To think of independence is māyā. Best thing is that "I am dependent, and let me remain dependent in properly. Then I am protected." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So your question is answered? Material consciousness means thinking falsely independent. That is material consciousness. Falsely. He is not independent, but he is thinking falsely, "I am independent." This is māyā. Just like in dream he is falsely thinking there is a tiger. There is no tiger, but he is actuated by this false impression, "Oh, tiger is eating me. It has attacked me. Save me." So this material existence means because he is insane, he is thinking there are so many problems, "The tiger is there. He is attacking me. This, that, so many enemies, friends...," creating so many things. But they are all false. But he is attacked by that false hallucination. That's all. This is māyā. Everyone is thinking, "Oh, there are so many problems I have to solve. I have to make this, that, this, so many." But he has no problem. He has no problem. His only problem is how to accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He says, "Yes, you accept Me. Simply chant Kṛṣṇa. I am yours. That's all." But my, I am so misfortunate that I cannot chant even.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here." So here every living entity is trying to lord it over, competition. I am trying individualwise, nationwise. Everyone is trying to lord it over.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Previous year... Anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is... I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava, and there is no freedom. And this is the... They are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the... There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā... In Bengal, they worship Durgā Mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā Mātā, the Goddess Durgā is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see. This is story, just try to understand, that "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." Is that happiness? No food, no clothing. Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all. This is the sum and substance.
So in your country also that position may come. Now in America you are happy. Because the nature is changing, jagat. Jagat means which is changing. So before any further changes come, you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over your country. You should utilize these fruits and flowers for Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Don't slip down. That is my request. Whatever I could do, I have done. Now it is up to you to spread this movement all over the world. Don't go away. There is some tendency, somebody. Therefore, I ask you, no. This is all nonsense. This is māyā's peeping, "Why you are working so hard for a sentiment, chanting and dancing? Come on, take to service and be happy with your wife and children." This is māyā. This is māyā.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is māyā. I give you piece of paper and you think on thousand rupees. This is māyā.
Guest: Yes. You see it depends on the credit to the man who gives the promise. Paper is mainly the document of credit. Governments have till now kept their credit, but now they have learned to disregard their promises also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: So that is one of the main troubles.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: But I think any religious movement like yours, people think they can buy up the grace of God by giving some money. Right? So you won't find any difficulty in getting money, because there is air of sin in the world, and the sinful people think they can compromise by giving money. Let them give.
Prabhupāda: That is also good.
Prabhupāda: Yes. māyā, another meaning: illusion. So foolish persons, the energy is accepted as the energetic. That is māyā. Just like sunshine. Sunshine enters your room. Sunshine is the energy of the sun. But because the sunshine has entered in your room you cannot say the sun has entered. If sun enters, then your room and yourself, everything will be finished immediately. (laughter) You'll not have the leisure to understand that sun has entered. Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that sunshine is not sun. But without sun, where is the sunshine? So you cannot say sunshine is not sun. But at the same time it is not sun. It is sun and not sun, both. That is our philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable. In the material science you cannot conceive that a thing simultaneously positive and negative. That you cannot think. That is inconceivable energy. And because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy, Kṛṣṇa can manifest Himself from any energy, and act. Therefore, when we worship Kṛṣṇa made of something of earth, water, or something like that, that is Kṛṣṇa, that is not Kṛṣṇ... You cannot say it is not Kṛṣṇa. When you worship this metal form of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Because metal is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is non-different from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can present Himself fully in His energy.
Śyāmasundara: We are so foolish that we are always thinking, "In the future I'll be happy."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is māyā, illusion. That is an ass. You sit down on the back of the ass and just take a morsel of grass. He'll go. The ass is thinking, "Let me go forward little, and I shall get the ass, er, grass." But it is... One feet distant it always remains. That is ass-ism. (laughter) That is not... Everyone is thinking, "Let me go a little forward, and I'll get it. (break) ...get it, be very happy." (break)
Bob: I thank you so much for...
Prabhupāda: Hmm? (break) Don't talk l-e-a-v-e. But talk l-i-v-e.
Bob: I, I, I cannot yet, but I was thinking now of returning tomorrow to my town. But...
Prabhupāda: Don't return.
Bob: I should stay tomorrow, yes.
Prabhupāda: Stay here.
Bob: You tell me to, I'll stay.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You're a very good boy.
Prabhupāda: So, so long I am being controlled by these rascals, so there is no benefit. I'm controlled. I have been controlled by my senses. So under the control of the senses, I have served family, so-called family, society, country, nation, up to serving the dog, but nothing has given me the satisfaction. Therefore now I have got sense, good sense. I put myself under Your power. Instead of being controlled by dog, let me be controlled by God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have not seen, man, how he is controlled by a dog, in the street? The dog stops, passes stool. "Yes, I stand." Is it not? He's passing stool, his urine, and the master is thinking, "I am master," but he's being controlled. That is māyā. He has become servant of dog, but he is thinking that "I am master of dog." This is māyā. This is māyā. So unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, one cannot understand. We can understand that this rascal is being controlled by this dog, but he's thinking that he is the master. We can understand. What do you think? Does he not become controlled by the dog?
Bob Cohen: It's very true.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda:
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
After forgetting Kṛṣṇa, one wants to lord it over the material nature, but he becomes... (break) Especially in the Western world, everywhere attracted sex life. Mini-skirt so that the other party may be attracted. So many means and ways they want to avoid the after-results of sex life, contraceptive. The center is sex life. They are giving up everything, the hippies, but sex is there. That they cannot give up. So-called giving up, but they cannot give up the real central point. So this is māyā. He's captured by this one idea, mithuna. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is attracted by this sex life. We are trying to use this sex life in different way. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa-bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They're becoming diseased in so many ways. Sex life, indulgence of sex life means you will become diseased, so many diseases. That is a medical fact. So this movement is very scientific movement, authorized. Anyone who will take to it seriously, sincerely, will be cured of this material disease and be happy.
Ian Polsen: Your Grace, you said I needn't give up my job, but may I look forward to the time when I may give up my job?
Prabhupāda: You come morning, evening, you come, as far as possible associate with us and try to give some service.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all. Instead of saving time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, māyā will give him intelligence how to waste time. This is māyā. Human life is so valuable that one second of this life should not be wasted. But these people are simply prescribing how to waste time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this (indistinct) thing is inquiring in the wrong direction?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the wrong direction?
Prabhupāda: No.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're inquiring.
Prabhupāda: It is right, but when we speak that the ultimate shelter is Kṛṣṇa, that they will deny. Therefore they're wrong. Just like you are coming this side. If I say: "Come to here," they'll say: "Why shall I go to there?" That is their fault. We are requesting everyone that: "Accept Kṛṣṇa in the center. All your research work will be successful." That they'll not. (pause) Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). They'll not accept one thing, God. That is their business. (pause) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause) Jellyfish is also eaten by man?
Prabhupāda: Yes, matter grows upon life. Just like why this body has grown upon me? I am the spirit soul. This is māyā. Just like, this is... I have explained in Bhagavad-gītā. I am putting on this overcoat. The overcoat is made according to the size of my body, but I am thinking, "I am overcoat." This is foolishness. Just like I got my hand, therefore this overcoat is made of warm cloth. It has got a hand also. Because originally I have got hand, therefore the overcoat has got a hand. Similarly, originally I am spirit soul, I have got my spiritual body, and the material body has grown, cut according to the body.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what about in mineralogy? Scientists have proven that, for example, mountains are growing by sedimentary activity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also growing on spirit soul, Supersoul.
Paramahaṁsa: In the mountain?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything. Mountains have been described in the Bhāgavata as the bones of God. These grasses are described as hairs on the body of God. These holes, there are holes, we saw that. They have been described as oceans. So in this way, this virāṭ, the biggest body.
Prabhupāda: A neophyte or anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. There is no question of enjoyment. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. But he takes the suffering as enjoyment. That is māyā. That is māyā. Just like in your country, they are working day and night. Just like from the morning, gugugugugugugugugu (makes noise of machine that is on nearby) They are suffering, but the people are coming, enjoying golf. That is suffering only. From the morning, going here, is it not suffering? (laughter) But he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is māyā.
Umāpati: Just like the doctor's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is māyā. He is suffering, but he's thinking I am enjoying. So any conditioned soul, he doesn't enjoy anything. He simply suffers. But he thinks that he is enjoying. Therefore the camel, camel example is given. Camel example. Camel, he is eating his own blood, eating thorns, and the thorns cutting the tongue, and from the tongue, blood is oozing out. So when the blood is mixed up with the thorny twigs, it becomes little tasteful, and he is thinking "Oh, it is very nice." Similarly, all these gṛhasthas, enjoying sex life, he is discharging his own blood, he's becoming weaker and weaker, he is thinking, "I am enjoying." He is thinking, "I am enjoying." And if he uses more, then he becomes diseased, tuberculosis. He is dying by that process, but he's thinking, "I am enjoying." Therefore it is example for the camel. He is enjoying his own blood by discharging. One drop of semen is made out of so many drops of blood. Do you know?
Prabhupāda: It is simply covered by another energy which is called material energy. And that is māyā. Māyā means that is not actual, not factual. The example is given, just like the sun is covered by the cloud. The cloud is nothing but another creation of sun. But when the cloud comes, sun is invisible. Similarly this condition, forgetfulness, is my creation and when I am covered by this forgetfulness I become stones and atoms, like that.
Haṁsadūta: In Bhagavad-gītā, it says that the soul is immovable. In the Second Chapter there is a verse that says the soul is immovable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: What does that mean exactly? Are we not moving? In that verse it says immovable and...
Prabhupāda: Sthāṇu, means fixed up.
Haṁsadūta: You mean its nature is...?
Prabhupāda: Unchangeable.
Haṁsadūta: Unchangeable. Not that we are not moving. We are moving.
Prabhupāda: Might be that word was not properly used. Sthāṇu, the word is sthāṇu. If you have got Sanskrit, you know what is the meaning of sthāṇu. And acalo 'yam, acalo 'yam, yes.
Prabhupāda: Immediately. It is not a question of when. Just like here is light. It doesn't depend there is darkness. You can remain in the darkness and immediately come to the light, and from the light immediately go to the darkness. So, this darkness and light, they are existing, co-existing. It is my choice whether to remain in the darkness or in the light. It is my choice. As soon as you are in the darkness, there is no light. As soon as you are in light, there is no darkness. It is your choice. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is light. And anything else, that is māyā. So we can accept either māyā or Kṛṣṇa. If you take to māyā, then you've spoiled your energy and time. If you take to Kṛṣṇa, you utilize your energy and time. Everything is there, ready. You haven't got to create. Everything is there. Just like night is there and day is there. You can keep yourself always in day. Do you know how to do it?
David Wynne: Keep going round, I suppose. (devotees laugh)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nowadays it is not difficult, because...
Devotee (1): Airplane.
Prabhupāda: Just like I started from India at eleven o'clock, and I came here at half past eight, the sunlight was still there. So if you proceed still further, further towards Western side, the night will not be able to come. So you can travel always in daylight. (laughs) Don't allow. It is an example.
David Wynne: Why do we choose the dark?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: That is childish. Just like they build with the sand palatial building, the children, and they take pleasure in it. That's all. That is children's pleasure. That is not sane man's pleasure. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya. This pleasure is māyā, and they are making humbug. Therefore they are vimūḍhān, vimūḍhān, all foolish men. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). The materialists, they have created a standard of happiness. That is māyā. That is not happiness. But for that māyā happiness, false happiness, they have beget a gorgeous arrangement. That's all. Therefore they are vimūḍhān. They are so vimūḍhān, so foolish. Now suppose they have created this nice comfortable civilization, but they have not created the situation that they will be able to enjoy it. At any moment they will be kicked out, "Get out! Finished. All finished." So where is that guarantee that you will be able to enjoy this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why the scientists are saying that God didn't give us everything so that we can make very happy.
Prabhupāda: Then God is there. Accept. Then why do you say there is no God? Then God is life. Then everything comes from life. You have to accept. That is our proposal. If they accept that "God has not given us the capacity," then they are intelligent. They are accepting God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, the living entities, the jīvātmā within the..., and the Paramātmā within, why the living entities suffering even the Paramātmā is directing the living entity within?
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Government is always with you, but why you are suffering, and why one is enjoying? Government is not partial. You have created your situation to suffer. That's all. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender to Me. I will give you all protection." But you will not do. You must suffer. Suffering is there. As soon as you are disobedient to God, immediately suffering begins. That is māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Now you give up all this nonsense business. Surrender to Me. I will give you all protection." That you will not do. Then you must suffer. That is the song:
- māyār bośe jāccho bhese
- Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi
That is our preaching, that "Why you are suffering? Just accept Kṛṣṇa; you will become happy." That is our preaching. So long you are under the clutches of... (end)
Prabhupāda: They're not wise. Mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Because they always engage in sinful activities. These are the sym..., cause of their disease. They're sinful, they're rascal, lowest of the mankind, and whatever knowledge they are proud of, that is māyā, and the basic principle is they're asuras, atheists.
Yaśomatīnandana: Just like a prisoner trying to demand explanation from the King...
Prabhupāda: Let us go (indistinct).
Karandhara: Prabhupāda, we should go straight back; it's getting late.
Prabhupāda: Ah? No, no. What is the time now?
Karandhara: Quarter to seven.
Prabhupāda: Quarter to seven?
Devotee: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So whenever he works, he never cares about anything, but he carries his only piece of paper and pen so that he can write molecules. So his consciousness is only on molecules, and he is very happy.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is māyā. That is māyā. Even the pig is happy eating stool. That is māyā. Āvaraṇātmika-śakti (?). Covering energy of māyā. Unless he's covered, he cannot eat and enjoy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these are all guided by māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti is conducting everything, as you are associating with qualities of prakṛti. That I have already explained.
Devotees: Jaya! All glories to... (end)
Prabhupāda: Why "Should have created"? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuṇṭha. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation), everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other fools, they say, "We are perfect now." In a fallen condition also, they're thinking perfect. That is māyā. Āsurīṁ rākṣasīṁ caiva mohinīṁ prakṛtiṁ śritāḥ. Kṛṣṇa has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he's imperfect?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surāśū-sākṣimat. Surāśū-sākṣimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see? Surāśū-sākṣimat. So that is māyā, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), misusing power and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also. But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?" This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you take the right one? God says, "This is right." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why don't you take it? And still, how you can say God is bad? What is the argument?
Umāpati: Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He even let me fall?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Umāpati: If God is so powerful, why does He let me fall. Why doesn't He save me, save me from my own foolishness. Why doesn't He...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's saving you, but you don't carry His order.
Prabhupāda: Atheists? (laughs) One kick of māyā, he's finished. (laughter) All dominance. One this kick his dominance all finished, in one second. (laughter) No dominance. That is māyā. They are under control, but thinking that "We are free." That is called māyā, that is called māyā. They are under full control but they are thinking, "We are free." That is māyā. Mohinī, mohinīṁ śritāḥ. What is that verse? Āsurīṁ mohinīm?
Hṛdayānanda: Rākṣasīm. Moghāśā mogha,
Prabhupāda: Prakṛtiṁ mohinīm. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). Because they are bewildered, all their hopes will be frustrated. Moghāśāḥ. Because they are rascals, āsurīm, atheists, all their hopes will be frustrated. This is stated. And that is being done. They are making so big, big plan; now it is going to be frustrated. Just see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still, they don't want to come to their senses.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal means that however kick him on his face, still, he'll insist. That is rascal. Rascal means that. They'll never take good lesson. That is rascal. And sensible means he takes good lesson. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). And why they remain rascal? Because they are duṣkṛtinaḥ, very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Don't you see? They are maintaining slaughterhouse. They are maintaining brothel.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Because I said about authority... So this is fact. Now, in Russia the authority was the Czar. Now, after this Bolshevik revolution, Lenin became authority. That was his point. I said that you have to accept one authority. That you cannot change. That he said, that "Yes, that I accept, but authority has to be changed by revolution." And yes, we accept that. But the ult... When you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness authority, then there is no more necessity of change." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Everyone is trying to achieve the greatest profit. So when he gets Kṛṣṇa, he is satisfied. No more profit. Final profit. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. So there is no more necessity of revolution because that is the ultimate peaceful condition. So if you do not come to the ultimate condition of peace, then this revolutionary method will go on, continue. There will be no cessation of revolution, one after, one... That is māyā, illusion.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Kapoor: They are, so long as you don't know that I have not real ones. (laughter)
Devotee: That is māyā. (more laughing by Dr. Kapoor)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi).
Dr. Kapoor: She was here only a couple of days ago. My youngest son was married on the 20th of this month...
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, I heard.
Dr. Kapoor: So they came in that connection.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi).
Dr. Kapoor: I have two sons and two daughters. The eldest one is the one you know.
Prabhupāda: Oh, in Kanpur.
Dr. Kapoor: In Kanpur.
Prabhupāda: Dhawan.
Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) ...In every life, there is āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. He'll think that "I am very well situated." Even in the hog's life. That is māyā. Similarly, even if you are thinking, "Now we have got human body. We are well situated than the hog," that is also mistake. That is also mistake. "I am European, American, I have got so comfortable." Everything is wrong. Because you have to transmigrate. You do not know what is the next life. So what is the meaning of this well-situated. That is the mistake. That is māyā. You are not sure that you'll continue this life. You'll have to die. You have to accept. So this is māyā. Somebody well-situated, he's thinking, "Oh, I haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am well situated. I am European and American."
Jayapatākā: Watch out here.
Prabhupāda: Where is our... (break) (kīrtana-party in background) ...that "Europeans and Americans will come, and they will dance here with the chanting, "Jaya Śacīnandana, Jaya Śacīnandana!" So that is being done.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is no more śūdra or brāhmaṇa. In the material world, even if you become a brāhmaṇa, that is not a very good position. That is māyā: "I am brāhmaṇa."
Dr. Patel: But a sannyāsīs are also from the varṇāśrama.
Prabhupāda: They are also. They are also. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has denied: "I am not a sannyāsī, I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya, none of these." He said, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). "I am the servant of the servant of Gopī-bhartuḥ." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's identification. So those who are actually in the, engaged in the service of the Lord, they are beyond, transcendental to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya... Yes.
Dr. Patel: Nāham...
Guest (1): (Sanskrit) (break)
Dr. Patel: That is not Māyāvādī. That is not Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: That is... That is... That is not. I don't... If I say "I am not Indian, I am not American. I am Brahman," that is not Māyāvāda.
Prabhupāda: So this virāṭ-rūpa is subordinate. Darśayāmāsa hari. Hari is the supreme. And the virāṭ-rūpa is a feature, not that virāṭ-rūpa is original.
Dr. Patel: One of the features of His multiple features.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Virāṭ-rūpa. Not that the... Māyāvādīs take the virāṭ-rūpa is the origin, and this rūpa, Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. But actually, Hari manifested or exhibited...
Dr. Patel: One of his multiple...
Prabhupāda: Multiple features.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Engage them. māyā... It is not actually māyā's fault, this māyā's business that all living entities who are within this material world, they have come to enjoy. Enjoy means sense gratification. So māyā is kind enough to give them all facilities. That is māyā's business. māyā has a machine, these three qualities, and as I want to enjoy, so there are departmental arrangements, "Give him facilities like this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
Satsvarūpa: But the facility turns out to be slaps.
Prabhupāda: Slaps... We will go on the street?
Mahāṁsa: It's not very... It's all right.
Prabhupāda: Let us see. (break) Just like children, they are given some facilities. They must work according to that plan. Otherwise sometimes there is slap, "Huh, why you are doing like that?" like that. (break) ...your country. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrā-bhaumya idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Bhaumya means bhūmi. Bhūmi, the land, idya-dhīḥ: "This is my duty: to serve my country, to serve my land." This is māyā. The rascal, he is engaged to "Do your duty to your country," and what is the country? Suppose if I do my duty and I may be driven away from my country next life, because there is no guarantee that I will have to take my birth... Just like one astrologer has explained that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Scandinavia. (laughs) There is chance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, these fools, they do not know what is service, what is country, what is... They do not know this is māyā. (break) By nature's mercy, they got this nice human form of body, civilized. There is sufficient food, supplied by nature. You eat and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Take advantage of the śāstras, lessons left by Kṛṣṇa and His devotees. Live peacefully, happily, and go back wherefrom you have come. But whole thing is spoiled by these misleaders. "Do your duty to your country." (laughs) What is that duty? I am working under the influence of material nature, and what is my duty? My only duty is to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my duty. (break) ...because we are prescribing so many duties, and there is no God. That's all. (break)
Akṣayānanda: You said that everyone could become a brāhmaṇa, in your lecture, last night. But at the same time there must always be the legs of society.
Prabhupāda: Legs are already there. Everyone is now legs. So they can be promoted to become heads. What is the difficulty? Everyone is in the eighth class. Does it mean that he cannot pass MA examination? If he is trained up, he can pass M.A. exam...
Prabhupāda: Not at all. Very easily, in one second. If you have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). These are sinful activities. Immediately Kṛṣṇa will help you, "All right." Immediately. Kṛṣṇa said. Is He bluffing? If you sincerely take to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, immediately the effect will be you give up all this nonsense. They don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, they don't believe in Kṛṣṇa's word; neither they will surrender; neither they will give up. So where is the reformation? They want to remain in degradation and protesting... This is māyā. This is the called, prakṣepātmika śakti, to keep him in degradation, that "You rascal, you have come to enjoy material happiness. So I will keep you in this degradation and you suffer. I shall kick on your face." This is māyā. So what is the result of this protest against degradation?
Akṣayānanda: They get shot. The police come and shoot them.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate.
Prabhupāda: No, even distinction, life and matter, here is sand. How these animals are living within the sand? And not only that. Now it is... Because it is wet, they are living. When it is very scorchy hot, then also living.
Dr. Patel: That is māyā. This is all māyā.
Prabhupāda: Living entity can exist in any condition. In the sun globe there is life. Go on.
Dr. Patel: Life is caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, caitanya. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Dr. Patel: Without caitanya nothing can exist.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Patel: I think even in an atom there is caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Aṇḍāntara-stha paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). There is. Go on.
Yadubara: "I can be sure this opportunity..." (break)
Bhagavān: Madness when they keep creating things which are hurting them, but they don't stop.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is māyā. Māyā is very strong.
Bhagavān: We can go down this way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...different countries, they are very careful. When foreigners come, if they bring some fruit, "No, no. You cannot take it within." And they keep the lakes contaminated. You cannot bring in one fruit, but you can keep the whole lake contaminated. This is their intelligence. Why they are contaminating? Eh?
Bhagavān: All the factories.
Prabhupāda: Their very business is contaminated, factories. (break) Even the sea has become contaminated.
Bhagavān: The sea?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: In Long Island and those places, if you go, the sea, the sea is so dirty.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Trivikrama: Actually material nature's kicking them on the head and shoulders every minute. And they're thinking everything is OK. That is māyā.
Pañcadraviḍa: One of the principles, I'm told, of psychology's is whether a person can pass semmina or not. If he can pass semina, then he's considered normal, and if he can't, he's subnormal. This is the standard.
Acyutānanda: So he has said to...
Prabhupāda: Now our next point is that we say that God, the person, is identical with His name. Now, if, by meeting God, by seeing God, you become purified, then by chanting His name also, you'll become purified, because we say God and His name, identical. But if, by meeting God, you become immediately purified of material contamination, similarly, by chanting God's name you immediately become purified. So what is that name of God that acts immediately, exactly like God? So far Kṛṣṇa name is concerned, it is practically that so many thousands of men, they are chanting "Kṛṣṇa," and they are becoming purified. So find out any other name which can act equally. Then that is accepted as God's name, not by imagination.
Pañcadraviḍa: How do you find out, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: But you must come back. He said, "Oh, I am not coming back again?" "No." "No, no, then I don't want." Yes, that is the psychology. The Russians, when some aeronaut was flying high in the sky, he was seeing: "Where is my Moscow?" Yes, it was published. That is māyā. The... Another incidence happenned that when the jet was in danger, he was thinking of "How to come back home?" This is māyā. Cannot go. Even though you like to go, still, it will attract you again, back to hell. Otherwise, how people are living in—what is called? That place where is ice?
Haṁsadūta: Alaska.
Brahmānanda: Greenland.
Jagadisa: North Pole?
Prabhupāda: What is the name of those people?
Devotees: Eskimos.
Prabhupāda: Eskimos. Is that very good living? Just see. They won't come here. This is māyā. This is māyā. Āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. They, he's living in hell but māyā is covering: "No, it is not hell; it is heaven." This is māyā. Similarly all of us, we are living in this universe, material universe. We are thinking "This is all good. What is the use of God and going back to home, back to Godhead?" They do not take it very seriously.
Prabhupāda: That distinction the hogs and dogs cannot make. That is for human beings.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What happens if a human being can't distinguish...
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā, that he cannot make any distinction. Both the same. That is māyā. Māyā-mohitaḥ. Just like on the street, there it is signboard: "Keep to the left." The hogs and dogs cannot do it. But human beings can do. That is the distinction between hogs and dogs and human being. Human being is supposed to make distinction. And the hogs and dogs are supposed not to make any distinction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sign: "No dogs allowed."
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The sign "No dogs allowed" is not meant for dog.
Madhudviṣa: Someone would say that that example just means that the hog doesn't speak your language.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Become a crab. That's all right. This is their solace. This is ignorance. You don't like it, but "When I become crab, I'll like it." That is māyā's covering. Otherwise he cannot live. If the crab thinks that "I was king in my past life. Now I have become a crab," it would be horrible for him. Therefore he forgets. That is a concession of māyā. Forget whatever you have had. Just like here they try to forget by drinking, intoxication. That kind of forgetfulness is also happiness for the rascals. Nobody wants to be degraded. But if in degradation one forgets his past life, if that kind of happiness is happiness, you can do it. This is for the fools. The dog forgets that he was a prime minister in his past life, and his statue is now being worshiped in the memorial hall. And he has become a dog. (If) this kind of happiness is happiness, let him take it. Actually it is like this.
Paramahaṁsa: Well, all of these things are relative anyway. So whether I am a dog or human being, it doesn't really make much difference, because I'm still existing.
Prabhupāda: Still, you don't want to become a dog when you are a human being.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the ripe age, up to the point of death one is sexually inclined. Up to the point of death. There was a minister of Agwar(?). I have told you this story? Yes. At the point of death he was looking to the young girl. That is natural. Unless one is trained up, that is natural. That is māyā's entrapping machine to keep the living entity within this material world.
Śrutakīrti: Sometimes the youth, when we offer them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "When I get older I won't be so attached to this enjoyment, so then I can take it up."
Prabhupāda: They generally think so, but that is not possible.
Śrutakīrti: That is not the fact.
Prabhupāda: In Paris very, very old men, seventy-five years, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub, paying $50 entrance fee, then they spend money for woman, wine. And few hours they stay there and come back. They are all old men. It is very difficult job, but still by Kṛṣṇa's grace you are accepting this principle. That is great mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is very, very difficult. One old man, I told you that Marquis of Zetland? In London?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But a pure devotee goes back to home. There is no more material body. That is the... So we are advocating that you come to this stage where you will not to have accept this material body. Then you are really happy. And if you want to enjoy the flickering, illusory māyā, then you are subjected to the māyā. You are enjoying as American. Then you enjoy as a dog. That is māyā's control. But if you don't enjoy material things then you become purified. You come to the eternal life, back to home, back to Godhead. But they are not willing to give up this material enjoyment. That is the defect. So it requires education. It requires knowledge. It requires training.
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, when you leave this material world, will there be another spiritual master after you? Another pure soul?
Prabhupāda: Then that spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā. This is māyā. The philosophy of māyā, māyā means what is not. Mā-yā. Mā means not, yā means this. So māyā means the conclusion, as you have made, that is not. That is not the fact. So we are claiming, "America is our", "Australia is our", "India is our". Nothing our. Everything God's. The best conclusion is, "It is God's property. God has given us to live. Let us thank God, feel obliged to Him, and glorify Him." That is our vision. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You accept the real position, that nothing belongs to you, everything belongs to God. You also belong to God. Your body, yourself, everything belongs to God. This body is material body. That material energy, earth, water, air, fire—everything belongs to God. This sea belongs to God, water, vast water. You have not created, neither your forefather has created. So this body is made of earth, water, air, fire, five elements. So your, the body is also God's.
Dr. Pore: And we as human beings, are we part of that too?
Prabhupāda: Why human being? Even the trees, plants, everyone. We are part and parcel of God.
Dr. Pore: And how is Kṛṣṇa different from us?
Prabhupāda: He is not different. Because we cannot realize Him we are thinking He is different from us. That is māyā. Just like father and son. They are not different, but the son, out of his foolishness, he is thinking father is different from him.
Dr. Judah: Wouldn't you say, though, that, in the case of us, that we are, as it were, jīva-śaktiḥ, we are the marginal energy, and so we do have, as it were, that aspect of Kṛṣṇa, but we also have in this world then the māyā-śaktiḥ. We are the combination, as it were, here in the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is.
Prabhupāda: That is free will, but under the point of revolver. So māyā is very strong. māyā is very strong. So when you are under the māyā's clutches, she dictates and you have to do. This is called māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14), very, very strong. So mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taran... If one is staunchly Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can avoid. Otherwise not possible.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But if someone purposefully sins, also that is māyā.
Prabhupāda: That may not be māyā. That is my discretion. But that is also māyā in another way, indirect way. So one must be strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he is not a victim of māyā.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, on the news it's talking about the hook-up of the Soviets and Americans, in their (?) capsules. And a large hook-up of these space ships in outer space for planning their moon project. And we were wondering what your feelings are and your views are on all of this.
Prabhupāda: What is he wondering? You are making plans to go to back to home, back to Godhead, and if they go to the moon planet, so your plan is bigger or his plan is bigger? (laughter) Whose plan is bigger?
Devotee: Our plan is much bigger.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. When a man's lusty desire is very strong, he commits, what is called, rape, and he becomes complicated in criminal activities. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Why one is forced to do that? The cause is lusty desires, anger, greediness. So we are thinking we are master of this material world, but actually you are servant of these desires, kāma, krodha, lobha, mohaḥ. And that is māyā. He is acting as servant, but he's thinking, "I am master." That is māyā, which is not the fact. Just like yesterday we were discussing that the women, they are acting as instrument of men, and they are thinking, "We have equal rights." A man is utilizing her for his own purpose, and she is thinking "I am equal."
Ravīndra-svarūpa: I think you really surprised them when you told them that this women's liberation is just a trick by the men just to increase the class of prostitutes, available prostitutes.
Prabhupāda: Free prostitutes. You go to a prostitute; you have to pay. Here they have arranged in such a way that free prostitute loitering on the street, and you can enjoy any one. This is their plan. They are rendered into beggar, and they are thinking equal rights.
Prabhupāda: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? (break) ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is māyā's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is māyā's trick. (break)
Trivikrama: ...sixteen rounds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let him go to hell. What can be done? (break) So his friend said, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is drinking." "Oh, he will go to hell." "My mother is also drinking." "Oh, she will go." Then brother, sister... "Then where is hell? We are going all there. If we can live together, where is hell? Let us go to hell. Doesn't matter." So your argument is that. "Because everyone is being cheated, then where is fault? I have been cheated. That's all. It is not hell. It is heaven." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Akṣayānanda: It's like saying everything is one.
Prabhupāda: No. That cannot be. You are one cheated and he is one cheater. How they can be one? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Comfort, where is your comfort? Why you have so many medical men if you are comfortable? Why there are so many drugs, medicine, if you are comfortable? This is māyā. He is not in comfort; still, he will say that "I am in comfort." This is called māyā, illusion.
Brahmānanda: So these drugs, even though one may be feeling pain, he can take the drugs and he won't feel pain.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He will take injection. It is comfort. Daily he will take injection, and it is comfort. (laughter) Just see the fools and rascals. Mūḍha. (break) ...met so many medical men, doctors and quack. "Die comfortably." What is the use of this medical man, medicine? What is the use? If your comfort and death is comfortable, then why spend so much money? Die comfortably. Because you cannot check death, then why you are trying to check death? "Let me live some years more. Let me take this medicine." Why? Why this struggle? Die comfortably. Suffer disease comfortably.
Cyavana: They've made so much propaganda that life is meant to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is māyā, no education. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are giving intelligence; therefore they are understanding. But there is no such propaganda. There was no such propaganda.
Brahmānanda: One of those reporters yesterday was saying "Well, there's so many philosophies from India. Why have you started this one?" But actually no other philosophy has given this message.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said that "Why you are bringing India? The whole world is in darkness." (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Good morning.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a verse in the Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda. Yenātmā suprasīdati: "By rendering devotional service to the transcendental Lord, one becomes completely satisfied." So what happens? These people in material life, they come to the temples and they chant a little bit. But they find that the standard of pure devotional service is so high that they're not able to grasp it. They don't feel the complete satisfaction. They're still attached to the material world.
Prabhupāda: Just like here, this is māyā influence. These things should be stopped.
Cyavana: The Chinese come and make propaganda. The Russians come and make propaganda. The Americans come and make propaganda. They become confused what to do.
Prabhupāda: The climate is nice. There is good potential for producing food, keeping cows. Everything nice.
Devotee: It is all volcanic. The soil here is all from volcano, volcanic soil, very rich.
Prabhupāda: Oh? Volcanic or not volcanic, pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). When it is created by Lord, it is complete. You are originally from India? No.
Indian boy (2): No, Mauritius.
Indian boy (1): Our father from India.
Prabhupāda: All of you? Bihar? No.
Prabhupāda: That is māyā. He is serving a dog, and still, he is thinking he is master. That is māyā. Instead of serving a nice person or the nice Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, he is serving a dog. But he is thinking that "I am master." This is māyā. māyā means which is not fact. He is serving, but he is thinking that he is not serving, he is controlling, or something like that. That is māyā.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the desire to be worshiped is unnatural.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (to someone entering:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. Jaya. This is the beginning of devotion, to be submissive. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). This is the beginning, praṇipāta. This is praṇipāta, fall down, full surrender. That you have... Therefore you are making progress. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. Question? Praṇipātena paripraśnena. Praṇipāta is done. Now you can question.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any question?
Indian: I can't think of one now.
Prabhupāda: Oh. How persistent life is this. His main body is cut into pieces; still, he's struggling to exist. He has got some attachment—"I shall live here, stand here for ten thousand years." This is māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can a man's intelligence be rectified? If intelligence is the...
Prabhupāda: This hari-kīrtana, chant. Somehow or other, induce them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything all right. By flattering, by soliciting, by giving him prasāda, by elevating him, that "You are the best man in the world"—in this way inducing him, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," then he will be rectified. This is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. There is no other way. He is ruined, and the more the Kali-yuga advances, he becomes more and more ruined. All other attempts will failure. Don't you see in your country the LSD-addicted hippies? Government spends so much money to rectify them-failure. But as soon as they come to our camp, immediately success. How it is possible?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: By this chanting...
Prabhupāda: That is the amazement. That is the amazement of Professor Judah and all others, that "How it is happening? There is something in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement."
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, narādhama māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). They have no knowledge. "Why no knowledge? Degrees." No, this is māyā. "What is the cause?" Aśuri-bhavam aśritaḥ: Godless rascal. Therefore he's a mūḍha.
Harikeśa: So it's not that we're so much concerned about science but rather the aśuravāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: We don't have to research because our conclusion is already there.
Prabhupāda: Already there. And it is acting, practical. How from the stone this has come? Stone and sand, but they are life; it is green. (Break) ...this?
Brahmānanda: This is a type of tree. There's many of them like this.
Prabhupāda: What is this? Fuel? (?) Now... Just see how fresh it is. You can take some foodstuff and eat very nicely.
Cyavana: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: And then throw it. That's all. What is the use of keeping on the veranda for three years? (laughter) I am seeing every day so carefully.
Bhāgavata: Once that happened to Indra, isn't it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Anyone, in any condition of life, he thinks that he is happy. That is māyā.
Dr. Patel: If all the five holes of indriyas are made to look outside, get our pleasure from out, if they have turned within and get pleasure from yourself, then you are happy. That is in Kaṭhopaniṣad.
Prabhupāda: You can see practically. People are living in, what is called, that zone, where everything is ice?
Devotees: The North Pole.
Prabhupāda: They are thinking happy. They do not come out.
Bhāgavata: Eskimos.
Prabhupāda: I have got practical experience. In my childhood I used to go with my father for some purchasing some bhauma(?) flour in the interior districts. So there was one servant engaged. One day he did not come. So my father asked me, "He is living in there, in that cottage. You can go and ask him." So I went to his cottage. Practically there was no roof, and rain was dropping. So I saw him in a very bad condition. Then I asked him, "Why don't you come to Calcutta with us?" So he replied, "No sir, we cannot go, leaving home. (laughter) This is home."
Prabhupāda: Avarana. He is in the most abominable condition, and he is thinking he is very happy. This is avaranatmika, covering him to see in the real position. Otherwise we are asking everyone that "You come here. I am giving you room. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Read these books." "No. Why shall I come?" What is the difficulty here? But nobody will come. He will rot in the home-anxiety—how to maintain, how to... This is going on. This is called prakṣepatmika, avaranātmika. He will prefer rotting as hog and dog, but he will never prefer to live as Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is māyā. So many people are there on the beach. You invite them, "Please come to our place. Live nicely. We shall give you nice room, nice prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Nobody will come.
Dr. Patel: It is good that they are not coming. Otherwise you won't have this place...
Prabhupāda: No, no. We have enough place. We are not depending on Dr. Patel, but Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
Devotees: Haribol! Haribol!
Dr. Patel: You rate me very badly.
Prabhupāda: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says, jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life, advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of māyā. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā. We are already attached to this material world, which is temporary. By this expansion of māyā's influence we become more attached. Attachment is already there, but we become more and more attached. In this way, jība ke karaye gadha. So he is already ass; he becomes first-class ass. That's all. (laughter) Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: So in every center they must rise early in the morning. They must follow the regulative principles. They must attend class. Otherwise let them go out. We don't want. And if anyone wants to marry, first of all he must show that he has some earning capacity. Not that "Because there are so many girls, and I marry one to satisfy my senses..." I thought that boy was nice, and I heard all these stories. That is also another defect, that we have got young boys and young girls open for lovemaking. And brahmacārī means strictly prohibited to see the face of woman. But we cannot stop it. That is also another defect. Fire is good and butter is good, but when they come together everything become bad. Is it not? Fire is good, just like heat. And butter is good, healthy. But when they come together the butter melts and the fire extinguished. This is māyā's arrangement. Puṁsa striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. This whole world is going on by the sex attraction, and when they come together both of them become spoiled. Therefore it has to be dealt with very, very carefully, so many rules, regulation. (break) ...used, Nitāi?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not difficult, but because they are rascals, they made it difficult. Kṛṣṇa says, "Immediately." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām eka śaraṇa vraja aha tvā sarva-pāpebhyo (BG 18.66). "I'll give you protection-immediately, within a second." But they'll not do that. That is māyā. Kṛṣṇa says that it is so easy that you can become immediately brahma bhuta. Why you should waste time, many, many lives, to come to this conclusion that vāsudeva sarvam iti sa mahātm sudurlabhaḥ? Why you should waste your time, many lives? Do it immediately.
Dr. Patel: Sir, we must have wasted our many lives in past, and we have come to this stage, who knows how...
Prabhupāda: Hm, we have come to this stage, we are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You do it, now. Why you are delaying? If after many, many births I have come to this conclusion, surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why don't you do it now? That is intelligence. (Hindi about rupees) How rascal he is! (Hindi joke) (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all your duties and just come to Me. Immediately." (Hindi) These boys, they did it! That's all.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.
Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.
Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Baddha we have got, and still we are thinking...
Prabhupāda: Baddha-jīva, every moment he is under the strict laws of nature. Generally they think that.... They speak also. "I think." Do they not say? "I think," as if he is independently thinking. What you can think? Hm? Acyutānanda Mahārāja, why do they say, "I think," "In my opinion"? What is the value of your opinion?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called worms of the stool. You see? If you take this worm from the stool, "Why you are living in stool? Come here," "No, no. I go back there." You'll see. The pig eating stool, ask him, "Take halavā. Why you are eating?" "No, no. I like it very much." This is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So sometimes when a devotee goes, joins Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then leaves again and goes back to the material world, its just like a pig going back to the stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The materialism and spiritualism is explained by Rūpa Gosvāmī. There is bird, cātaka. So they drink water when the rain falls, and otherwise they will starve. They will never accept any water from this earth.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is actually such a bird.
Prabhupāda: A devotee will never accept materialism, even if he dies of starvation. You'll see so many still. They are sticking to this principle. There are still many saintly persons in India. They do that. They don't care for any bodily care. "Some food comes; I shall eat. Never mind." Still you'll find. They are sitting in their place and chanting or meditating without any concern for bodily necessities.
Prabhupāda: If you are asked to stand here for five hours, you'll feel most uncomfortable. But they are standing for five thousand years, no uncomfortable. This is punishment. Punishment is there, but unaware. So everyone is like that. Anyone in the material world, they are being punished in different degree, but unaware. That is māyā's grace, that although he is punished, he cannot understand.
Guru-kṛpā: So they answer that "If you're happy, then what's wrong with that?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, that class you are here. You go on with that happiness. But we are not satisfied with this. You are rascal, you are happy in that way, but we are not. That is the difference between you and me.
Guru-kṛpā: Happiness of the fool.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): Sometimes they say that pain is part of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them say, because they will have to suffer. Unless they think like that, how they will suffer?
Devotee (2): What about on the hellish planets? Do they know they're suffering there?
Prabhupāda: That is māyā. Just like they surfer. What is that? They are in hell. But they have no sense that "What you are enjoying? It is hell." They are thinking they are enjoying. Is that enjoyment? It is actually hell. But he's thinking he's enjoying. That is called māyā. He's accepting something what is not. That is māyā. Hog eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying. This is called māyā. There are different grades of suffering, and still they are thinking they are enjoying.
Devotee (3): To really enjoy life you have to suffer a little bit...
Prabhupāda: He doesn't know what is enjoyment. That is the...
Devotee (2): So simply suffering is not a qualification for becoming God conscious then?
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (2): Simply to suffer is not qualification for becoming God conscious?
Prabhupāda: Why suffering? Where is suffering? What you are suffering? We are God conscious. We are suffering?
Devotee (2): No. No. Ah...
Prabhupāda: This is their punishment. They are being punished, but if you think that "I am punished," they will die. You must take it "I'm enjoying." This is māyā's energy. They are being punished, but punishment they are taking as enjoyment. Illusion. The conditioned soul is illusioned. This is illusion. He is being punished, and he's thinking "I am enjoying." That is a concession. When he's punished, he may not be woke up with the unhappiness. Therefore he's thinking "I'm enjoying." Actually he's being punished.
Devotee (3): (break) ...saying though you have to laugh to keep from crying.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (3): There's an old saying that things sometimes become so miserable that you have to laugh to keep from crying. So in the material world they have to keep laughing because everything is very miserable.
Prabhupāda: Just like a criminal is put into the prison house for being punished, he will say, "Just see, I am living happily. I haven't got to work. I'm getting my food." (laughing) Such shameless. He does not know that "I am put here for suffering." But he's thinking "I'm so living happily.... I haven't got to work. Other men, they're going to the office, to the factory. I'm eating." (laughing) He forgets actually he's put into the prison house to suffer.
Prabhupāda: That is not your business, that is Kṛṣṇa's business. You follow Kṛṣṇa. If you cheat Kṛṣṇa, then you'll be cheated. That's all. Kṛṣṇa does not cheat you, but you create a situation to cheat yourself, and māyā will make an arrangement so that you are cheated. This is māyā's business.
Hari-śauri: So it's a question of honesty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You promise no illicit sex, no, before God, before spiritual master, before fire, and you play hypocrisy. So māyā is not seeing that? How you can avoid? māyā is always there. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. You cannot escape the eyes of God in so many different agencies. And still He is personally sitting within your hearts. How you can escape? You may pretend to be a very great devotee, but the Person, Supreme, He is within yourself, He's seeing everything. No cheating with Him. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. "Oh, I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so even I do something wrong, it will be adjusted." Adjusted, when you are sincere, by chance you have done something. That can be adjusted. But not intentionally. As soon as there is intentional cheating, that you'll have to suffer the effect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
That is required. We are publishing one book, Dialectic Spiritualism: Vedic Views of Western Philosophy. We are just going to publish one book, Dialectic Spiritualism. Marx's theory is dialectic materialism (laughs). We are going to establish dialectic spiritualism.
Gopavṛndapāla: They say that is the goal of life, if I can be remembered by others after I leave.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter where he is going. That is māyā.
Dr. Wolfe: I think, Prabhupāda, here the idea comes into "My children, my grandchildren" as if they were his.
Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is in Sanskrit, or, you know, ahaṁ mameti. Aham means I, and mama means mine. This is the illusion. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Gradually.... First of all, there is attraction, male and female, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. The whole material world existing on sex attachment. Puṁsaḥ means male, and striyā means female. Their attachment. Even before marriage or unity, the attachment is there. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etaṁ tayor mithaḥ. And when they actually unite, hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ, the hard knot in the heart, hard knot. Then after unity.... If, suppose one is married or united, then they want apartment, gṛha, then field. Formerly they used to earn money by producing food from the field. There was no factory. So ato gṛha-kṣetra, then children, then friends, then accumulation of money, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). With all these things, the conception of "I" and "mine" increases, and he becomes entangled.
Prabhupāda: Why should we think this world is mithyā when it is created by God? Does God create anything false? No. When it is created by God.... When we think that "I create some business, some factory, that is my pleasure," but if somebody else thinks it, it is for his pleasure, that is māyā. The world is created by God, He has got some motive, so if the world, cosmic manifestation, is utilized for His purpose, then it is spiritual. Otherwise, it is material.
Devotee (1): In the Seventh Canto, second volume, the first chapter in that volume, Prahlāda Mahārāja is talking how the studying of the three Vedas is external and it includes knowledge though, of education and self-realization, but he considers it material because it is external study of the Vedas. I don't understand that.
Prabhupāda: Anything external is material.
Devotee (1): Self-realization is included in that list of education and self-realization and other items.
Prabhupāda: Yes, self-realization, simply understanding "I am not this matter," is also external because there is chance of falldown. But when you are actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is positive platform of self-realization.
Prabhupāda: That is māyā. This is meant for Kṛṣṇa's service. As soon as you do anything else, then it is māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's. But under māyā we suffer; under Kṛṣṇa we enjoy.
Kulādri: So if we engage everything here in Kṛṣṇa's service, then the atmosphere will change.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kulādri: They can notice the change in the atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: That is real atmosphere. Sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Mukti means to stay in the original form.
Devotee (1): I've heard that you use the example that spirit has form and therefore the body also has similar form, just as a hand has a form in a glove, it's the hand's similar form. So how can we understand that the trees have a certain form? That..., is there spirit in the form of a tree?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā.
Rūpānuga: That is māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are suffering, and if you give him the remedy that he'll not have to suffer, he'll not take it.
Rūpānuga: But that rejection, that is their choice of the heart, isn't it? I mean, they have a choice to make?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the same thing. Just the child is playing, but if you say "My dear child, you please take education, otherwise you'll suffer." "Oh, I don't..." Child does not like. He wants to play. That is childish, or foolish.
Rūpānuga: He doesn't want to be educated.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for becoming educated about Brahman. They will not take it. They want to remain animals, eating and sleeping, this animal life. Eat nicely, sleep nicely, have sex life nicely, defend nicely, that's all. Nicely, according to the standard of the body. Here in America, to have a conveyance nicely like a car like this, but in Indian village, a bullock cart is nicely. So this nicely and that nicely, according to the body. You have got this American body, this is nicely. He has got Indian body, that is nicely. But the feeling of niceness is there and here.
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, the Brahman, there are... We are all Brahman, living entities. We are simply thinking "I am this body." So when we are... That I was speaking, liberation. When we come to the conclusion that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahmāsmi... So you are already Brahman, but you are, forgetfully, you are thinking that you are Indian. That is māyā. We are all Brahman, but due to our ignorance, lack of knowledge, we are thinking "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that." That is māyā. So when you actually understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is the fact. Then that condition is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Now we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are thinking "I am individual person of this country, of this religion." That is jīva-bhūtaḥ. But when we understand that we are not jīva-bhūtaḥ, we are brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is our liberated position. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When one becomes actually in understanding that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then my all responsibility of this bodily condition immediately ceases. I am not this body. And why I am working for this body? Why I am in ignorance? That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is liberated stage. So we are already Brahman, there is no question of becoming Brahman. We are mistaking something else, that "I am not Brahman." So when we come to the actual understanding, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu... (BG 18.54). Then he see everyone on equal level, that every soul is Brahman.
Vipina: We also say that Kṛṣṇa is fulfilling the desires of every living entity. So if we want to enjoy independent of Kṛṣṇa, why doesn't He let us really enjoy independent of Him?
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is māyā it is called. You are not enjoyer, you are servant. Because you are willing to become enjoyer, you suffer, that's all. You are not enjoyer.
Vipina: Then He's not fulfilling the desire.
Prabhupāda: No, you wanted to enjoy-enjoy at your risk. Sometimes you'll become the king of heaven, and sometimes you become the germs in the stool.
Vipina: Hm, enjoy at your risk. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is the fact.
Vipina: Instead of under His protection, you enjoy at your risk.
Prabhupāda: Therefore He advises, "Rascal, you give up all this enjoying spirit. You just surrender to Me, you'll be happy." But we don't accept it. Therefore sometimes we are in the heavenly kingdom, sometimes as a worm in the stool. That is going on. That is your risk. What is that? Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpāḥ?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is māyā. We are...
Dr. Patel: We are praying to end rebirths by kṛṣṇa-bhakti, and so there is no question of rebirth if we do it sincerely, and it is for the parama-bhakta...
Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... (BG 4.9).
Dr. Patel: Mām eti so'rjuna.
Prabhupāda: That is perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gītā, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?
Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macauley's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "everything Indian is bad."
Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: And he's trying to do something. The same "something." He was at home, the same woman and same man. And again also here the same woman and man, and trying to do something. But he has no customer. He has only customer how to cheat these Europeans and Americans. Surmā merchant. As if surmā is not available in the market. And he advertises "This is my special formula, and this is this, this is this. You take it and give me five hundred rupees and go away." He cannot sell outside. Otherwise, why he's sticking to Vṛndāvana? Thinking the fools and rascals the Americans are. I shall introduce. (Hindi) That this material world has become nothing. You come to something. (Hindi) If anyone wants to go to Bhagavān then he has to make this material world voluntarily nothing. Niṣkiñcanasya. Niṣkiñcana means nothing. You understand, you translate. You know the meaning of niṣkiñcana. Kiñ-cana means something and niḥ means not. Then nothing. So one who has made this material world as nothing. How it is made? Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Because with this something, as soon as one will stick to this something, he'll suffer. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because he has accepted this rascal situation, asat. Asat means either temporary or bad. Asat. (Hindi) Temporary or useless. So this material world is... Temporary we can know it is. But it is useless, that we do not know. Therefore we struggle. "Let me go, let me fight, fight, fight, fight." That is māyā.
Guest (1): He drafted that statement that Congress should be dissolved. It should be.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He was implicated. This is māyā, that although he got svarāja, he was not free. He was full of anxiety, and he he was not at all... (aside:) Ayi. Jaya. So long one is absorbed in material thoughts, he'll be full of anxieties.
Guest (1): That's true. He was full of anxieties.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahāt. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist, asat. Asato mā sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is: "Do not remain in this material world, and make your progress..." Asato mā sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is māyā, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult. Māyā tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of māyā, she becomes still strong: "Where you shall go my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpiṇa sam...(?) In the Caṇḍī, yaḥ devī, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way; I'll be happy in that way." And that is mental concoction. He'll never be happy. Kṛṣṇa said moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ, āsurīṁ bhāvam āśri... (BG 9.12).
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?"S So he said, "My dear..." He did not say "My dear father." He said "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam. "My dear the best of the asuras..." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that is best education..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself as very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition. "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?" And what happiness you can give? You are not God. Who is taking care of them? But this is māyā. He was thinking, "If I am not there, then whatever I have got, it will be finished."
Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick.
Prabhupāda: So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick. He has engaged good physician, good doctor. Does it mean that he will guarantee life? Then what is the principle? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "It is not a fact that when the children are under the protection of father and mother, he's secure." Tvad-upekṣitānām: "If You neglect, that 'This child must cry; this child must die,' then even by the greatest care of the father and mother, he will die." So what is the use, saying that your duty...? Duty? That is māyā.
Indian man: Second thing is...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you understand this. Then bring second thing. That you have no duty. Your only duty is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That is your only duty. But because you are under the mental platform, you are creating duties, so but that also must be finished after certain age. That is compulsory, that "You are very good, responsible man. All right, do your duty up to this. No more duty. No more duty." So this "duty, no duty," this is our creation. We are under fully control of the nature. But we have created our mental concoction: "This is duty. This is good. This is bad." That is our mano-dharma.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The starting is there. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa (BG 7.27). (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa bhūliyā jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare. As soon as you desire like this, that "I shall become God," so immediately there is māyā. That is māyā. So when you are entangled in māyā, then there is question of mukti. The mukti means muktir hitvā 'nyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena avasthitiḥ. This is mukti. Mukti means when we are acting differently. That is my condition. That is my bondage. And when I act according to my original position, that is mukti. So everyone is acting here to become master. So there is no question of mukti. As soon as you understand that "My real position is I am servant of God, so let me act as serv..."—then it is mukti. Hitvā 'nyathā rūpam. At the present moment we are trying to act as master. So you give it down, up. Act as servant. Then you are mukta. Therefore a bhakta is mukta. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicareṇa-bhakti-yogena sevate (BG 14.26). Anyone who is engaged as bhakta, he is mukta. All are conditioned. So if you become bhakta, if you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, immediately mukti, instantly. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo (BG 18.66). You are conditioned, you are bound up on account of your sinful activities. So Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll give you relief from all the reaction of sinful activity. You surrender." So mukti means one second. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. It takes one second.
Prabhupāda: That is technical, technology.
Rāmeśvara: ...technical. But if they have a general education, they cannot get a good job.
Gargamuni: And this is... māyā's kick in India is that they read these books, they go to school, and when they come out there's no job.
Prabhupāda: No job.
Gargamuni: And they have to become these... They work in the hotels, the five stars. Hotel work.
Prabhupāda: No. There was a news, "For five hundred post there was three lakhs' application."
Hari-śauri: In the railways.
Prabhupāda: In the railways. There were five hundred posts vacant, and the application was three lakhs. Every time this is the... Many educated... Therefore they became Naxalites.
Gargamuni: Yes. These Naxalites come from the educated classes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Human life is denied the advantage of this life. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Simply wasting time by sense gratification, for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛnoti na sādhu manye... (SB 5.5.4). "Oh, this is not civilization." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ: "You are going to get again body. You are suffering so much still. That's your plan? Who is happy who has got a material body? Who is happy? Find out. And still, you are going to get another material body? Is that civilization?" Na sādhu manye. "It is not good. Don't work hard for getting another body." This is Vedic civilization. Na sādhu manye: "Oh, it is not good." Sādhu means good. "Why it is not? We are enjoying." Not enjoying. You are going to get another body. "So what is the harm if I get one more body?" Now, kleśada: "You'll simply suffer as soon as you get body." Kleśada. More material body means kleśada, to be prepared for suffering. That they do not know. They are thinking, "enjoying." This is māyā. He's preparing for another suffering condition and he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is...
Gurukṛpa: Māyā.
Prabhupāda: This is māyā, what is not. He has to work for not to get any more material body, but he's working for that. (end)
Prabhupāda: By practically knowing he's a... Are you independent, anyone? Everyone is servant. He's serving his senses. That's all. He's servant. He's never master. But he has become the servant of māyā or senses. That's all. He has to change only; instead of becoming servant of māyā, be servant of Kṛṣṇa. Servant he is. Where he'll go? How he will become master? To remain a servant is his position. He cannot become master. That is false pride. As soon as he wants to be master, that is false pride. That is māyā. "So if I am servant, then I have to serve. So why shall I serve the senses' dictation? I will serve Kṛṣṇa, what He says." So he's self-realized immediately, within a second. Where is the difficulty to become self-realized? Hm? Is there any difficulty? He must know that "I am serving. I am never master. But serving the senses, that's all, whims of the senses in the name of independence." That is not possible. Very simple philosophy. One who understands, he's self-realized. And if he preaches, then he becomes recognized. On this principle we shall help everyone. "Come here. Stay with us nicely. Nicely you can. But serve Kṛṣṇa. We take responsibility." Organize in this way throughout the whole world. Give them shelter; give them food; give them cloth. That is the most benevolent welfare activity in the human society. So here people have generally tendency to come to the beach to enjoy. "All right, we shall give you a place. Come on. Stay here. You haven't got to pay anything for food or lodging. Simply attend ārati, classes. Then... For experiment, three days' period, you see."
Prabhupāda: Quarantine. Simply by thinking that "I shall not be allowed to go out of this room..." It is not a room; it is a big house, but still, I was feeling uncomfortable: "How is that? I shall not be free to go out." And that three days was actually suffering to me, "I cannot go out of the door." Simply by feeling this. I do not do practically. I sit down. But if I feel, "No, I cannot go out of this room," that's a great suffering. Whole day, I am sitting here. That's a fact. But I have got this intelligence that "I can go out as I like." But if you say that "You cannot go out," then it is a great suffering, psychologically. So creation or no creation, there is suffering. Rather, when there is creation it is less suffering, because he's mad, so he's engaged in some way. (laughs) He's thinking, "It is happiness." Eating, sleeping, sex is there. That is going on. That is māyā. Therefore this creation is another mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That I was reading this night. One creation, so many millions of years... There is calculation. One Brahmā's day, twelve hours, you cannot calculate. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). One yuga—forty-three hundred thousand years—one yuga, thousand times. Forty-three hundred thousand years equal to one yuga. Such thousand times. That is Brahmā's twelve hours. Then another twelve hours, night. That is also another trouble, when Brahmā's night. Everything merge into water, pralaya-payodhi-jale **. Not all the planet. At least half the universe plunge into water. This earthly planet and up to Svargaloka everything is inundated.
Prabhupāda: This is māyā. This is māyā. What he can do? He will die. This is called māyā. Therefore our system is because you are rascal, do all rascaldom up to fiftieth year. Then give it up. All kinds of rascaldom you can continue. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Then you retire from all this rascal work.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still, we don't know we'll live for fifty years.
Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body.
Bhavānanda: So if I can become happy by worshiping Durgā in this material world...
Prabhupāda: But that... That is māyā. You'll never be happy. You are thinking like that. Who is in the material world happy? Nobody's happy. But because you are fool, you are thinking this is happiness.
Hari-śauri: He says the results are only temporary, anyway.
Prabhupāda: Temporary but it is miserable also. But you are eternal. Why you should be satisfied with temporary happiness? If you be satisfied, be satisfied. That is your business. But that is not real happiness. Why you should take repeated birth and death? If there is another life where there is no birth and death, why should you not take that? You are eternal. But because you are a fool, you think that "If I get ten thousand years of life and very comfortable life, that is happiness." That is mistake. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). That is also said. Why don't you refer to that...? "Such persons have lost that intelligence."
Satsvarūpa: I've heard that Ramakrishna said that even if by mistake one worships the wrong Deity, God won't hold that mistake against him. Even though he's worshiping a demigod and he thinks that's God, so that's a mistake, but God is not so...
Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shadow.
Prabhupāda: Shadow. The shadow has no power to move. Chāyeva. How nice example. Although Durgā, the material nature, is so powerful, she is powerful in that way, as much the shadow is powerful. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti. Again explained, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "You, Me, and all these kings, they were existing—the individual. You, Me, and... They're existing now, and they'll continue to exist." So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as aṁśa, aṁśī, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṇa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swamiji or somebody." It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this machine, it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw. So our position is like that.
- kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare
- nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
- (Prema-vivarta)
As soon as he separated from Kṛṣṇa to become independent, that is māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is worst. Because I am spirit soul, I am now imprisoned with this material body. It is my unnatural state, and I am eternal, and because I have accepted this material body I have to undergo birth, death, old age and disease. So that is my effort, how to get out of this material body and remain in my original spiritual identity. That is our whole propaganda. We think material atmosphere is our imprisonment, suffering. Material body means suffering. Otherwise I am eternal, blissful, full with knowledge. That is my position. But because I have been impact... (aside:) Again you have the same disease. Attention, you attend, draw there. Don't do that. Very bad habit. Immediately you sit down, you do it. You cannot check it. So actually this is our punishment. This is māyā. That example I have explained this morning, very nice verse, that the moon in the sky is reflected in the water, in hundreds of pots of water, and the wind is agitating the water, and the moon is also agitated—sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They remain blind, yes. They like to remain blind. Their leaders are blind, and the followers want to remain blind. This is māyā. Unless there is training... This is instruction, ādau gurvāśrayam. If he doesn't understand the aim of life... It is meant for the most fortunate. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhram..., kona bhāgyavān jīva. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). But still, as far as possible, we shall take opportunity to try to convince him. Just see. This man is with us for the last six months. He is not ready to sacrifice his hair.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some dead stool.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some lump of stool on the head. Even that, he won't give up.
Prabhupāda: No, what is the value of this hair? But it cannot be... He has got some conviction, "I am not ready still for give up this hair." Did he not say like that? What he'll do? He'll be forced to give up his hair and the body on which it has grown. Still, he'll not do. Obstinate dogs. This is their position. They are not human being. Mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These are the terms. They apply. One thing I... Take your note. You can write one letter which will be presented to Shriman Narayan when Gopāla Kṛṣṇa goes.
Prabhupāda: Everything is spirit. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Therefore I say there is no matter. Only matter means when the spirit is not discovered. When people are rascals, then there is matter. When people are intelligent, there is no matter. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Therefore Māyāvādī philosophy, that "You are thinking you are not God," that is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a kīrtana party now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: This is kīrtana, going on. You do not understand what is kīrtana. Any topics on Kṛṣṇa, that is kīrtana. Abhavad vaiyāsakī kīrtane. Vaiyāsakī, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he became perfect by kīrtana. What kind of kīrtana did he do? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavata discussion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are thinking simply by lungs and karatala, kīrtana will go on. Anything we do here, there is no material connection. It is spiritual. We are not talking for how to increase our business and enjoy women and wine. That is not our business. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). We are trying to establish Kṛṣṇa. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. And that is kīrtana. (pause) Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Hm? You know this?
Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do exactly like karmīs, but not for us. For Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Same thing we are doing. Therefore these Māyāvādī cannot understand. "Again form?" The example is just like a man like me, he's diseased, he's suffering. And when they say, "Mother Yaśodās' crying," "So again crying?" He does not know what is this crying. He thinks this crying and that crying the same. Therefore Māyāvādī. They want to make it zero—no crying. But we take it a great blessing, crying for Kṛṣṇa. But they cannot understand. They say, "Again crying? Then what is the benefit?" And this is māyā. You understand? This is the simple understanding of Māyāvāda. As soon as there is crying, they say, "Oh, it is māyā. No crying." Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Crying is a great transcendental pleasure. That they cannot understand, the poor fund of knowledge. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was simply crying. That is love. So that they do not understand, how crying can be pleasure. That is Māyāvāda. All right.
Yaśomatīnandana: One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was saying yesterday, that if we apply to the Home Ministry, we should not apply for citizenship because why should we lose the citizenship of the better countries? But then there is no such arrangement as permanent residency in the government.
Prabhupāda: Then citizenship.
Correspondence
1968 Correspondence
I am in due receipt of your letter dated March 21, 1968, and may inform you that the horrible scene in the hospital is certainly ghastly. But we should at the same time know that this ghastly scene is in the matter of bodily concept of life. This is Maya's illusion, and although the spirit soul has nothing to do with this horrible affairs, but due to absorption of one's consciousness in the body, one has to suffer the consequences of bodily identification. So far we are concerned, we shall neither be sympathetic or apathetic in the matter of such bodily concept of life. Of course, it is quite natural to become sympathetic when one's body is put into such horrible condition, but if you are firmly convinced that this body is separate from the soul, then we may not be distracted. That is not possible of course in the preliminary stage, but when we shall be in a transcendental position not to be disturbed ever by such a horrible scene, then our position is secure. The suffering of the man and the sympathy of the other man, both are centered on the body. But this we have to understand by knowledge. Then such horrible condition of body won't be disturbing to us. That is the position of liberation. It doesn't mean that we shall not be sympathetic with one who is suffering, but we should always remember that such sufferings are due to the bodily concept of life. As you stated, that you simply want to leave the material world and be with Krishna, that is the best solution, rather than taking account of how things happened that you came here.
No, the moon's phases has nothing to do with spiritual. Yes, the students should agree to be malleable by the Spiritual Master, then his success is sure. In your western part of the world, people are falsely taught not to become slavish. Everyone wants to assert his personal views and opinions, without following any authority. That is the general tendency. But although such persons claim not to be slaves, actually they are slaves to the senses. So instead of being a slave of the senses, if one voluntarily becomes the slave of Krishna, or His representative, that is good for him. This is maya, thinking that we are independent. We are slaves—every moment we are serving our senses. We are slaves to so many abominable things, to drugs, intoxication, sex, doing the most abominable things in the service of the senses. So it is not slavish when one agrees to become slave of Krishna and His representative, then this is liberated position, liberated from being slave to the senses. Yes, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura said, My Dear Vaisnava Thakura, Spiritual Master, let me become your dog, and I shall remain at your door, and I shall guard against any nonsense persons trying to enter, and whatever food you will give me, I shall eat, and I shall remain as your dog.
1970 Correspondence
So now you are collecting a staff of translators in Hamburg and they are all very qualified to do the work. Please organize everything nicely so that the French and German editions may be prepared for printing at the same time as the English edition. But you must see that all work is thoroughly correct by mutual checking so that errors of spelling and grammar will not appear in the printing. I do not know the technical details, but I think your idea on standardized columns is very nice.
You said that your job is maya, but you must know that maya is illusion. As soon as there is absence of Krishna Consciousness—that is maya. But you are working just to help and push Krishna's interest; therefore, it is not maya. In the Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, Rupa Goswami Prabhupada has recommended anything dovetailed in Krishna Consciousness is real renouncement. The Mayavadis' renouncement with an ambition of becoming one with the Supreme is called false renunciation. They renounce the world for a greater sense gratification. To maintain an ambition of becoming one with the Supreme is the top rank sense gratification; whereas a person in all kinds of apparently material works, but ultimately the beneficiary is Krishna, is in a greater position of renunciation than the Mayavadis. So do not forget Krishna in any circumstance of life and Krishna will save you from all pitfalls of material existence.
After all the disciplic succession is beginning from God, so how do you find that there is no disciplic succession? If the original tree has branches, twigs and leaves and they are in touch with the original tree, it is alright. The test is whether the line is in touch with the Supreme—that is all.
Although Mohammed and Jesus Christ appeared in the Kali Yuga their instruction is as it is because the persons to whom they had to speak could not understand any more and they find it difficult to understand even that much.
Question the sixth: You are always with Krsna. But you forget. That is maya.
Regarding Bhagavad-gita Chapter XIII, verses 5-6: All these are elements and their interactions are the bodily combination and its changes. Convictions are mental impressions derived through the body. Convictions are not fixed up. The aggregate refers to the aggregate of the elements or the body.
1972 Correspondence
I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise.
After all, she is your beloved daughter, and you have sacrificed everything just to bring her to the point of proper education, training, and so many things are there between you. But what can I say? In your country the girls are independent, and from very young age they are accustomed to mix with young boys, so naturally there will be attraction, sex desire and marriage. Actually this whole material world is running on this attraction between man and woman. It is described in Srimad-Bhagavatam that once the boy and girl unite intimately the hard knot is formed, and the girl is thinking Oh, without him I am lost, and the boy is thinking Oh, without her I am lost, that is Maya's arrangement for keeping us bound-up tightly in the material atmosphere. If wife is there, then some money must be coming, that means work, land or factory, children, home, friends, community, nation—like that there is increasing complication of illusion of thinking: This is mine, that is mine. But they do not know that one day death will kick them out, mercilessly, and neither home, nor wife, nor children, nothing can prevent that. All along he is thinking these things are like soldiers of security to safeguard his happy life, but they are described as "fallible soldiers" because they will not help us at all. When the moment of death is there, no one may protect us, and if we are not prepared for that moment by practicing Krishna Consciousness or God-consciousness, then we shall be struck with fear and we shall not know where we are going after and what kind of body we may be forced by nature to take.
| Page Title: | That is maya (Conv. and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 05 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=93, Let=6 |
| No. of Quotes: | 99 |