That is intelligence (Conversations 1969 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Allen Ginsberg: So only those who practice Kṛṣṇa chanting can attain mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: They become immediately liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Allen Ginsberg: And everybody else gets involved deeper and deeper in the yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the śāstras, they should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures. You'll find in the Bhāgavata, There is a history of Candragupta, and "The Yavanas will become kings." That means English occupation, Mohammedan occupation. Everything is there. And Buddha's appearance, kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu means in the Bihar province in India. Bhaviṣyati. Because Bhāgavata Purāṇa was written five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,600 years ago. So therefore it is stated, bhaviṣyati: "In future, just in the beginning of Kali-yuga, Lord will appear as Buddha. His mother's name will be Añjana, and his business will be to cheat the atheists."

Allen Ginsberg: To cheat the atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sammohāya sūra-dviṣam (SB 1.3.24). Sūra-dviṣam means atheists. Surat. Sura-dvisam means those who are envious of Lord's devotees. That means atheist. So to bewilder them. What is that bewildering? This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void. There is no God. But what I say, you follow. Yes. That's all right." But he is God. Is it not cheating?

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1969, Hamburg:

Hayagrīva: Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You suggest that "Here is another solution. Why we should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" No. There is no other. You have got any suggestion, any other method? No. Then why don't you take to it and preach? What is the difficulty? You don't like? (break) ...especially Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes. That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam na janma-koṭi sukṛtair labhyate. Very nice verse. He instructs that "If you can purchase Kṛṣṇa consciousness from any market, any store, please immediately buy it." Then next question is "Then what is the price? What shall I have to pay for it?" And Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "Oh, the price is simply eagerness." Tatra laulyam... "Yes, I must have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is the price. Laulyam, that eagerness is not achieved even after many, many births. That is the price. Therefore it requires a little intelligence. "Oh, such a valuable thing? I can purchase only by eagerness? Why not become eager immediately?" That is intelligence. You are German or Australian or... (end)

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: What is that insight? Do you think that sunshine and sun, they can be, is one?

Guest (3): Everything is the same.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot say that, that the temperature of the sun and the temperature of the sunshine is the same.

Guest (2): No. But just because you have two different kinds of energies, why do you have to differentiate them? Essentially what he was trying to say...

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. That is intelligence. One energy is acting as cooling, and the same energy is acting as heating. Why do you say it is heat and it is cool?

Guest (3): It's all the same thing. Heat and cool is the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Why do you say the same thing? It is not the same thing.

Guest (2): Of course, it is the same thing.

Guest (3): Everything is "it." It's all it.

Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Cold is cold, heat is heat. Only it is acting. You are talking on the material platform. You are not spiritual. You don't talk nonsense. (laughter) No. We have got enough time.

Guest (3): I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to understand, because from what I understand of it there is no difference between...

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Even if they are puzzled. Although Kṛṣṇa appeared in India.

Guest (9): We don't think that He belongs to particular place or...

Prabhupāda: That's... They do not understand Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Why step by step? If you have to accept Kṛṣṇa, why not immediately? That is intelligence.

Guest (9): But you should be...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of "should be." When Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll give you protection," why "should be"? You don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. He says, ahaṁ tvaṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa (BG 18.66). You are doubtful about Kṛṣṇa's capacity. That means you do not know Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Guest (9): But in a part of one form...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guest (9): To understand Kṛṣṇa...

Guest (2): He means that is beyond his capacity, to understand Him.

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everything." Why don't you accept Him? That means you want to understand Kṛṣṇa in your own way. Why you are becoming intentionally unable?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That I tell you, not immediately. But our main business is preaching. Either do it as a gṛhastha or as sannyāsī, it does not matter. This is only formality. The real work is preaching. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha and Lord Caitanya was a sannyāsī, but He was taking lesson from Rāmānanda Rāya. This is Caitanya-līlā. He is a sannyāsī and He is God Himself, He is taking lesson from a grhastha who is His disciple. So the real thing is preaching must go on sincerely. This gṛhastha, vānaprastha, these are material regulative principles. Real life is Kṛṣṇa's service. That we have to do, that's all. So whatever position is suitable for you, you accept. You remain as a gṛhastha, remain as sannyāsī, remain as brahmacārī as it becomes suitable for you, but preach. That is the main business. If you lacking in preaching and become a sannyāsī, what is the use of sannyāsa? Better... A gṛhastha is better. Just like I asked Gaurasundara to go to Hawaii. He was just a boy, but he did. Now there is center, nice. So I'm very glad. So you are also doing that. It doesn't matter whether gṛhastha. Karandhara is gṛhastha. But we have to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is our main criteria. So we have to see in what position I can serve better Kṛṣṇa. That is our policy. Otherwise, either gṛhastha or sannyāsī, there's no difference. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsī kene naya

yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

(CC Madhya 8.128)

Preaching work is for the guru. So Kṛṣṇa... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says it doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or vānaprastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness and preaches, then he is guru. That's all. So we have to become like that. It doesn't matter what we are, but whether I am preaching nicely. That is required. But still there is some regulative principles like sannyāsī and brahmacārī will be like this, gṛhastha will be like this. That is the external. But the main business is preaching. So you have got good opportunity, you have got good name, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is being appreciated. So live very cautiously and preach very cautiously and seriously, then in this one life you will become successful, go back to home, back to Godhead. One life. You haven't got to wait for another life. If this life we work sincerely, then our business is finished. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is assured by Kṛṣṇa. "After giving up this body, he doesn't come to this material world." Then where does he go? Mām eti, "He comes to Me." This is said by Kṛṣṇa. Why shall we disbelieve? So serve this life very sincerely and go back to Kṛṣṇa immediately. That is intelligence.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: Limited and temporary enjoyment only. Limited and temporary enjoyment.

Guest (2): But you accept that the temporary enjoyment is there, would you?

Revatīnandana: Yes. And limited and temporary. It's called capala sukha, flickering.

Prabhupāda: Now, even there was no God's picture, one who is God conscious, he can see in the natural scenery presentation, he can see, "Oh, how God is artistic. How he has manufactured this flower, how he has painted, how He has made this tree." So that is higher intelligence. That is higher intelligence. Because without God, there can be nothing existing. So one has to learn how to see God in everything. That is another thing. That is higher status. Yes. But in the lower status of God consciousness one is advised that you should not see anything without God. But in the higher status, there is nothing in the world which is without God. But we should not imitate the higher status of life in the lower status of our position. Otherwise, one who has learned about God, he can see God in this flower. Actually, how God's hand has worked out this nice flower. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just like I am drinking water. In the taste of the water I'll see God. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." And actually, that taste cannot be created by man. The taste in the water, that is God's gift. So as soon as I taste the water, immediately I should remember, "Oh, here is God."

Guest (1): So we believe that the holy spirit empowers artists and composers. And therefore we would say that a symphony was a creation of God.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: There should be...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are (indistinct), it is better to surrender and be peaceful. (break) ...here, there, here, there, here. Kṛṣṇa says, "No. That surrender will not help you. Just surrender to Me, you will be happy." So intelligent person will feel that "If I have to surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why surrender to some foolish man? Let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If my business is to surrender, I cannot do without surrender." That is intelligence. That Kṛṣṇa says,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

Therefore who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is mahātmā. It is very rare mahātmā, su-durlabhaḥ. So anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are mahātmā. They are not ordinary men. So mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.

Reporter: Sir... (break)

Prabhupāda: We have to surrender, that's a fact. But we refuse to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is our disease. He is not free, just like in a state, just like in Mahatma Gandhi's time, so many started civil disobedience, but the government brought them all into prison, and they obliged them to obey. Similarly, our position is that... (end)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: As soon as there is person, there is no doubt, clear.

Prabhupāda: But we have tried to explain how He is person. Just like we try to explain how God is working. So one should have brain to study things. One must have clear idea how God is person, how He is working, how this cosmic manifestation is manifested by God's energy. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). "In My impersonal feature, everything is manifested there." Tatam idaṁ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). So one has to apply his brain—that is intelligence—how it has become person. That is not false, that is fact. You cannot understand; your brain is teeny. That is different thing. Now you make your brain competent to understand this philosophy. (break) ...vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So take this philosophy nicely, understand this philosophy, and preach. You will be victorious everywhere, because we can challenge anyone. If you know the trick, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can challenge. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). One who is nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, he is never afraid of anything.

Śyāmasundara: Whenever someone challenges you, you always know the trick, what their weak point is, the weakness is in their challenge, and you go right there. Every time.

Prabhupāda: That is the trick of wrestling. (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: Find where they are off balance, where their balance is off.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there was a wrestler, he was not very strong, but he knew the trick how to defeat the strongest man.

Śyāmasundara: There is a science of equilibrium where you can study another person, if he is off equilibrium, you can move his body in such a way to defeat him every time. Japanese art.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Devotee (1): Some number?

Prabhupāda: No, just guess, how many pounds blood you can get?

Devotee (1): Fifty pounds?

Prabhupāda: Fifty pounds. But if you keep the cows, you get thirty pounds daily. This is intelligence. Instead of getting once fifty pounds and finished, why don't you get it daily thirty pounds?

Devotee (1): Because they're lusty.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have to set the example, Prabhupāda, through your mercy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is foolishness. Just like one has got some money, he utilizes his money and gets daily some income. And if he wants to spend all at once, that is foolishness.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Now they think they are smart. They think they can mass produce animals and mass kill them.

Prabhupāda: Mass killing?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Mass killing. That is... They have factories where they can produce thousands of animals very quickly. Quickly they inject certain vitamins and so on in the animal so that they become fat very fast for mass killing.

Prabhupāda: How they can produce thousands of animals?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: You may not be. It doesn't matter. But you can become, take advantage of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She's asking if it was possible in her last life she was a Kṛṣṇa's devotee, in her last life, and come back again? If you're a Kṛṣṇa's devotee coming back again. In your last...

Prabhupāda: When one is perfectly Kṛṣṇa's devotee, he may not come, but if there is little deficiency, then there is possibility of coming back. But even though there is deficiency, he comes back to nice family, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate (BG 6.41). (aside:) What is this? Human intelligence can decide for future. That is human intelligence. The animal cannot decide. We have got that discriminating power developed, "I shall do this, I will be benefited. If I do this, I shall not be benefited." This is there in human life. So we have to use it properly. We should know what is our goal of life and decide in that way. That is human intelligence. What is that?

Bali-mardana: This is a photograph we've received of your Guru Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bali-mardana: Yadubara, I think he has sent many from the family collection of Lalitā Prasāda. The painters...

Prabhupāda: So keep it and frame it, and keep it in my room.

Bali-mardana: Should the painters, should they paint such uh, this type of pictures?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not.

Bali-mardana: And they can distribute to the centers?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not preset. That you can do, because you have got little independence. It is not natural to commit suicide. It is unnatural. So, because we have got independence, we can go from nature to unnature, and we shall be prepared for that. Just like a prisoner cannot go out of the prisonhouse naturally, but somehow or other he arranges to jump over the wall and goes away. Then he becomes again criminal, for farther (indistinct). Naturally, the prisoners cannot go out of the prisonhouse. Somehow or other, he manages to go out. That means he becomes again criminal. He will be again arrested, and his term of imprisonment will be increased, or he will be punished more. So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent. But the small man at home is controlling his children directly. The controller, he is controller both in the office and factory and home, but at home he is controller directly; outside home he is controller indirectly. But he is controller always. Similarly, God is controller always. When one becomes devotee, he is controlled directly by God. When he is nondevotee, he is controlled by His agent, māyā. But he has to be controlled. Just like every citizen of America is controlled by the government. When he's all right, his civil department controls him. When he's not all right, then the criminal department controls him. But he cannot say that "I am not controlled." That is not possible. If somebody says, "I am not controlled," he is not sane. He is crazy. Everyone is controlled. So either you be controlled directly by God or you be controlled by his agency. Being controlled by māyā, you spoil your life. That means you remain in the material existence, one after another. You simply change your body. But if you give yourself to be controlled by God, then after this body you go back to home, back to Godhead. Then your life is successful. You cannot be without being controlled. That is not possible. Therefore one who is intelligent, he puts himself under the control of God directly. That is intelligence.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But... Thing is that they are studying the laws very nicely. That's good. But they should appreciate that who has made this law? That is their defect. They are studying how the laws of nature is working. That's nice. But they should appreciate at the same time: Who made such subtle laws that they are working so nicely? That is our philosophy. We do not only study the laws and appreciate it, but we study the law-maker also. That is the difference between ourself and the so-called scientists. They are left, poor fund of knowledge. They cannot appreciate that there is a law-maker of these subtle laws. That is their defect. That is called poor fund of knowledge. And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this. No more admission. You have to stop. Similarly, there is law of God. Where there is order: You mighty ocean, you cannot come beyond this. This is law. There is sun. "You must rise at half-past, at five o'clock in the morning." "Yes, sir." This is law. "You must rise on the Eastern side." "Yes, Sir." Not whimsically. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side, sometimes that side. Cannot do whimsically. That is law of nature. And behind the law of nature, there is the order-giver, law-maker. This is perfect knowledge. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence, the laws of nature is working." This is intelligence. We are teaching people this intelligence. That's all. We don't decry that your studying of the laws of nature is useless. We don't say that. We say: "Not so much. This is imperfect. Go forward still." And that is perfection. You are a science student. By your scientific knowledge, you prove that behind these laws, there is Kṛṣṇa. Then your scientific knowledge is perfect. Either from the chemical department or physical department or electrical department. Any department. It doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...also know how to keep pace with the big, big waves. They know how to do it. They're not afraid of big waves.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They know that the wave is coming. They run because they know that the wave is coming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they know how to go forward and come back. Who has taught them this discipline? Kṛṣṇa is there, within. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is dictating: "Now you go forward. Now you come back. Here is your food." He's giving intelligence. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He's giving direction in every living entity, but when a human being, He gives direction, if he surrenders, that: "Go this way. You'll come to Me." Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te. And that is human intelligence. So far these lower animals are concerned, they are given, being given intelligence how to eat, how to sleep, how to mate, how to defend. But a human being, if he engages himself in the service of the Lord, then Lord will give intelligence how to come back to home, back to Godhead. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is the condition. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). "Only to those who are engaged in devotional service with love and faith, I give him intelligence how to come back to home, back to Godhead." Therefore, after coming to human form of body, we must awaken our intelligence about understanding the Supreme Lord. And if we take up the process sincerely, with love, then Lord within will give you dictation: "You come this way, come this way, come this way." Otherwise, not. The first condition is: teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Therefore we are trying to engage all our disciples to be engaged twenty-four hours in devotional service. Then his life will be successful. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Satata. Satata means always, constantly. Just like we are walking, but we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others are walking. They're wasting time. But we are, we are walking, but, at the same time, we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are eating.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what scientists are trying.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is...

Prabhupāda: That means you are struggling. That means you are in miserable condition. So why you are put into miserable condition? Why do they not ask this question? This is intelligence. You are submitting. You are trying to get out of the miserable condition, but you are unable. You are submitting. Therefore nature is very forceful. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass. It is not possible. Then the next question will be: "How we can surpass?" That is real inquiry.

Brahmānanda: How...?

Prabhupāda: ...we can surpass.

Brahmānanda: Oh, the misery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Miserable conditions.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Handling every day. Still they'll not. Dog's obstinacy. That's all. They're seeing practically, that the material energy cannot work independently unless the spiritual energy joins. So how they can expect the whole cosmic manifestation, which is matter only, has come out automatically? We are practically seeing, a very nice car, Cadillac. But if there is no driver, what is the use of that car? A computer machine. Unless the man knows how to work it, pushes the button, it does not work. So practically we are seeing that without superior energy, the material energy does not act. Still they'll not believe it. Therefore in this wonderful cosmic manifestation, there must be handling of a superior energy. And that they do not know. They are amazed with this material arrangement. Just like a foolish person is amazed by seeing the mechanical, big machine. So many parts. But another person knows that, however wonderful machine it may be, unless the operator comes and pushes the button, it will not work. This is intelligence. Therefore who is important? The operator or the machine? So we are concerned with the operator, Kṛṣṇa, not with the machine. If you say: "How do you know that He's the operator?" He says: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence, the whole cosmic manifestation is working." The difference is you don't believe. I believe. That's all. I take it immediately: "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is operating." Therefore I have no problem. Somebody's operating, that you have to accept. But you do not know who is that person. At least, we have got knowledge, here is the person. That's all. Now if you say: "No, Kṛṣṇa is not the person," then you have to accept another person. So present him, that "Here is the person, not Kṛṣṇa. Another..." That you cannot. So in the absence of your knowledge, you have to accept my proposal. (break) Can you create a stem like this in your laboratory?

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So they...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they say about nature.

Prabhupāda: Nature, that's all right. You are observing the plants are being produced by nature. But who has produced the nature? This is intelligence.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They don't think about this.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Wherefrom the nature comes? As soon as we speak nature, then next question should be: "Whose nature?" Is it not? Just like I say: "It is my nature." You say: "It is my nature." Therefore as soon as you talk of nature, the next inquiry should be: "Whose nature?"

Karandhara: They don't want to think of that because they want to use it themselves.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: They don't want to think...

Prabhupāda: Nature means energy. What is the definition of nature?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somethings which are already existing.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No mirage is... Mirage is not the real image....

Prabhupāda: No, it is illusory. Just like I see there is water in the desert. There is no water. This is illusion. But actually there is water. Therefore I get the conception that there is water. Water is there, but it is not there. Similarly these varieties is here, what we see, the varieties, enjoyment, that is only like that mirage. We have got the experience of water. But we are illusioned. We are seeing in a false place there is water. Similarly, we living entities, we are meant for enjoyment, but we are seeking enjoyment in a false place. Or illusion. Just like animal runs after that desert water. But the intelligent man knows: "Oh, that, there is no water. It looks like water."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is a reflection from the sand.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, there is no, actually there is no water. But the animal runs after that water and dies out of thirst. Because they, he cannot satiate his thirst by such illusory water. Similarly we, ignorant, avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ, we are trying to manufacture so many things to satisfy our thirst of joyfulness, but we are being baffled. Because it is illusion. Therefore real intelligence is: "Then where is the reality? Where is real water?" That is intelligence. Bhāgavata gives: vāstava-vastu vedyam atra. Vāstava vastu. "Real reality, you'll find here." (end)

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is also not guaranteed. Why I am taking so much trouble? They are so foolish persons. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā. This so-called scientific education means people become more attracted with this temporary world and he works very hard, just like an ass. Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses." Although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass. So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say, "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they. But they have no idea of the next life. (pause) Again, Switzerland.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: London is also like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, London, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The smell we are getting now from burning the gas or coal is also one of the causes of cancer. The hydro-carbons.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the artificial life is the cause of all diseases. And they won't accept our natural life. That they think primitive, "We must advance." What is your advancement? Primitive life was also subjected to death. You are also subjected to death. So where is your advancement?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And nora means mortar and what is called, pestle? So it is your śilā nora. I take it and break your teeth. (laughter) So take their, this jugglery of words and break their teeth. That should be the policy. "These molecules and this and that," so many words. You have to simply catch their words, and with their words kill them. That is intelligence. We are saying plainly. You say with these words which is their sona, mortar and pestle, and break their teeth. That's all. Tora śilā tora nora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?) This policy should be adopted. Otherwise, we know they are rascals. But if I say, rascal, people will say, "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?" "Therefore I am flattering you that otherwise..." You haven't got to convince me, that (he's a) rascal. I know that he is a rascal. Now, because we have to prove that he is a rascal to another rascal, we have to take your help. This is our policy. Otherwise, so far we are concerned, if they go on lecturing for millions of years, we shall kick on their face. You should know he is mistaken. Let the rascal speak whatever he likes. We know the conclusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in trying to make a house, we need certain materials to build the house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Materials are already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly when the living entities, when they come down to the material platform...

Prabhupāda: Material is already there. Just like what you are manufacturing. You are... Already everything is there.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: They don't want to admit their failure.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. If you are a fool and if you want to pose yourself as intelligent, that is another foolishness. You cannot make progress. Stubborn dogs. If you are seeking after knowledge, you must take the right knowledge. That is intelligence. And if you want to remain in ignorance and advertise yourself that "I am man of knowledge," how much cheater you are! You are cheating yourself and cheating others. That is going on. We want to stop this.

Paramahaṁsa: Just like many of our devotees, we experienced when we tried to preach to our parents, because they are much older, to admit that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the right path in life, means to also admit that they have wasted their entire life.

Prabhupāda: Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible. They will have to forget first of all, what they have learned. That they cannot. Therefore it is impossible. Therefore knowledge begins from the school children, not from the man who is going to die. (laughing) That is not... Impractical. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān: (SB 7.6.1) "Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very childhood." Not that at the time of death. That is not possible. Therefore our students, they are all young generation, they capture. These rascals, they cannot. Old fools, they cannot. There was a practical examination. One father and one daughter, both appeared for BA examination in India. The daughter passed and the father failed. It was in the newspaper. In old age they cannot take any lessons. They forget.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: Because of sense gratification or mind...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they say all... Yes. The bodily functions, intelligence...,

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is... You are perfect gentleman, means that you say that "I am imperfect." That is nice. But our point is that from imperfect man, imperfect knowledge is received. We cannot expect perfect knowledge from imperfect man.

Mr. Wadell: No. But where does your perfect knowledge come from and how do you recognize it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very important point, where to get the perfect knowledge. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Therefore the Vedas says, gurum eva abhigacchet: "You go to a guru." "Guru" means heavy, who knows better than you, or who knows perfect. That is injunction.

Mr. Wadell: But, you see, this is...

Prabhupāda: We have to find out, we have to find out who can give the perfect knowledge.

Mr. Wadell: How do you know that you know? May I ask this? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Mr. Wadell: This is the point which, I would find, you know, without disrespect, this is something which is very difficult, whatever kind of faith you have.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of faith. Faith may be wrong, belief may be wrong. That perfect knowledge can be received from the perfect source. So God is perfect. God is perfect. And one who follows the path of God, he is also perfect.

Mr. Wadell: But he is different from God, is he not?

Prabhupāda: Maybe. Just like...

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can prepare yourself to go the higher planetary system, where demigods live. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. If you want to remain within this planetary system,... yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām. "And anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he comes to Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "If one comes to My place, he never comes back again in the material world." That is intelligence. Why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? But they have no intelligence. They're spoiling their life, simply living like cats and dogs. This is the position. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them, that "Don't go again to the cats and dogs category; go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa." There is... Here is the possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, dog can also do. If you train dog that "If somebody, outsider comes, you bark," he'll do it.

Guest (2): The consciousness is...

Prabhupāda: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there. Three kinds of suffering. One kind of suffering is called pertaining to the body and mind. I don't want to be diseased, but there is, all of a sudden, there is disease. Diarrhea. I don't want it, but it is imposed. This is suffering. Due to the body. Some discrepancies. Mind... Body's sound, but mind is not sound. Mind is "Oh, I don't feel today very nice." You see. This is one kind of suffering.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Another kind of suffering: by nature's... All of sudden, there is drought. Now, just like, all, in India there is drought. They are suffering. No rain. All of a sudden there is earthquake. That is also suffering. There is some epidemic, pestilence. You cannot check it. So in this way, either of these three, sufferings going on. But those who are sleeping, they cannot understand that this is suffering. Just like animals. They cannot understand. That is sleeping stage. And when one is awakened, he will think "I don't want all these sufferings. Why they are imposed upon me? How I can avoid?" That is intelligence. So human being, unless he comes to this platform of intelligence, he is animal. The animal cannot do any remedy. You take one animal to the slaughterhouse. He cannot do anything. So sleeping means to remain in ignorance. And awakened stage means in knowledge. So intelligence means one must have knowledge. That is intelligence. So this division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—means the highest intelligent class man is called brāhmaṇa. He knows. He's in knowledge. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Next intelligent, less, is the kṣatriyas. Next, the vaiśyas. And the śūdras, they are like, almost like animals. They have no independence. Just like animal has no independence. A dog, without a master, he cannot live. His life is very precarious. So at the present moment, however one qualified may be, unless he gets a good job, he's just like a dog, a street dog. He may be very highly qualified, technologically, but if he does not get a job, then he's useless. He'll go. "Sir, can you give me any job?" "No vacancies." A dog like. Just like dog goes, moves the tail, "Can you give me some food." Somebody gives him, "Eh! Hut!" This is the position. Therefore in this age kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In Kali-yuga, there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya. There are some vaiśyas. And all śūdras. Because they cannot live without being engaged by somebody else. And the whole civilization is going on, big, big factories, big, big... What is that? Śūdras. They are creating śūdras. "People should be dependent." Unless you work... Therefore people are going fifty miles away, going... I have seen in New York. People are coming from the other side... What is that?

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, śūdra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): I haven't followed you.

Prabhupāda: No, what is your opinion, my description of intelligence and not, no intelligence?

Guest (1): I think you're right.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (laughter)

Guest (1): But you know, my thoughts must be really not worth very much.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, money you can get. That money does not mean independence.

Guest (1): No, I know.

Prabhupāda: They are, while working, they're getting money, but they're not independent.

Guest (1): No, I understand that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So without money, if you become independent, that is intelligence.

Śrutakīrti: That was her question.

Prabhupāda: Ah. That, if you can get Kṛṣṇa, you'll...

Guest (1): But how do you, what I mean is how do you, how can you...

Prabhupāda: That "how to," that we shall teach, as we are teaching others. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito na duḥkhena

guruṇāpi vicālyate

(Bg. 6.20-23)

Yaṁ labdhvā. You get something, which getting, you will be satisfied: "I don't want anything more." That is highest gain. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Cāparam. Another kind of benefit is not required. So yasmin sthitaḥ. If we remain in that position, then even there is hardest difficulty of life, he'll not be disturbed. (pause) Where is Paṇḍitjī?

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So about the next life, change of body, you can prepare yourself. Yānti deva-vratā devān. If you prepare your life to go to the higher planetary system, the Moon planet, the Venus planet, and other... There are thousands and millions of planets. You can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān... It is clearly stated. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. "You can go to the Pitṛloka planets." Or bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni. "If you want to remain here, you can remain." Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. "And if you like, you can come to Me." Everything is there. So next life there is. I'll have to accept a body, and there are eight million... (break) ...you prefer. But Kṛṣṇa says that whichever body we accept, it is subjected to the four miserable conditions: birth, death, old age and disease. Even Brahmā. He has got millions and millions of years duration of life, but still, he has to die. So anywhere in the material world, you have to undergo the material tribulations: birth, death, old age and disease. Here an ant's life may be for few hours, and my life may be for few years. So it is a question of hours and years, but one has to die. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). "Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, the topmost planet, there also, you'll have to die and again accept another body." This will go on. Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "But if you come to Me, then you don't come back to accept a material body again." So why not try for that? If I have to endeavor for my next better life, so why not accept the supermost life, eternal life? That is intelligence, and that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try in this life to get back your spiritual life and come back to Kṛṣṇa, the eternal home, and live there peacefully, eternally, without any disturbance of birth, death, old age, disease. This is our program. (Sound of guests coming or leaving) Jaya. (Hindi ) Oh! So whenever you find time...

Guest (1): It's only a question of time and your convenience.

Prabhupāda: No, I am, I am for your service.

Guest (2) (British man): Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Come again.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

Find out this verse. Prakṛti, nature, will offer the body, and there are so many varieties of body. So one should know at least, what kind of body I'm going to get next. That is intelligence. And if he remains in the darkness, and if he becomes other than human being, that is not very good proposal. They should know. What is that? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni...?

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He believed in God.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He tried to find out the brain of God. So he's not rascal. He's sane man. Those who are defying God, they're rascal, demons. Einstein believed in God. Yes. There are many scientists, they believe in God. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal. Immediately, take it. We take it like that. As soon as you say godless, atheist, oh, a rascal. That's all. It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect. But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And the demons will never accept God. Just like in Russia. All set of rascals. They do not believe in God.

Dr. Hauser: But the interest... The religious interest in Russia is, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the, the leaders are not...

Prabhupāda: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.

Dr. Hauser: Although Nixon says, in every television speech, that he is a God believer.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No... nāpnuvanti. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhim. Siddhi, siddhi is ordinary. If you become transcendentalist, jñānī, yogi, that is also kind of siddhi. Yogis, they have got aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimādi. But that is not saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi is different. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. The highest perfection, saṁsiddhi is to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is saṁsiddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That will save him from coming down again to this place which is full of miserable conditions of life. That is saṁsiddhi. That one can attain very easily. That is also described, that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who understands Me in truth..." Generally, people understand Kṛṣṇa that "He appeared as a great personality, son of Vasudeva. At Mathurā, He was born. And He acted very gorgeously in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and so on, so on." This is also knowing. But this is not knowing factually that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands Kṛṣṇa, the original source of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), which Kṛṣṇa explains, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior authority beyond Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of all." When one understands Kṛṣṇa like that... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that "I am also Kṛṣṇa, I am also Kṛṣṇa." But people who follow, they do not ask him that "If you are Kṛṣṇa, you show something as Kṛṣṇa showed. Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill when He was seven years old. And you are seventy years old. What you have done like that?" (laughs) So everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot manifest Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Kṛṣṇa showed the virāṭ-rūpa to Arjuna. What you have got? So this is Māyāvāda. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody can be superior than Me or equal to Me, equal to Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Asamordhva. Nobody is equal; nobody is above Him. Asamordhva. So in this way if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). And this tattvataḥ is very significant. How you can know Kṛṣṇa as He is, in truth? That is also explained. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa in tattva, in fact, in truth, then you have to adopt this process of bhakti. Not jñāna, not yoga, not karma. Karma, jñāna, yoga, bhakti. So Kṛṣṇa is understandable simply by bhakti, not by other methods. Not by karma, not by jñāna, not by yoga. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). The jñānīs, karmīs, yogis, they are trying to come to the Absolute Truth, but they will take many, many births to come to this point to surrender. Therefore intelligence means if one understands that "Ultimately I have to come to Kṛṣṇa for my highest perfection; then why not immediately? Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why not take this process?" This is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, it's inconceivable by them, not by us. Therefore we call them fools. It is not inconceivable by us. But so you know the Truth from the Truth, Absolute Truth. A layman or a foolish boy does not know where..., which side the sun will rise. His father can say, "This side it will rise." That is the difference. Because he knows how to suggest which side, because there is reddish, how do you say? Illumination. He knows that "This side it will rise," by the symptom. Both of them, the foolish man and the intelligent man, just at present do not see that where is the sun. But the intelligent man knows "Here is the sun," although the sun is not visible both to the intelligent and foolish man. That intelligence means he knows how to find out where is sun. That is intelligence. And this is not discovery. I am intelligent speaking "This side is sun." It is not my discovery. I have heard from authority that from the eastern direction the sun rises, so I know it.

Yaśomatīnandana: They're so stupid they name it Absolute Truth, but still they try to make their own theories about the Absolute Truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: In the Vedic literatures it is stated dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). They can't even understand a simple thing.

Prabhupāda: No. dharma means the codes, the laws of God. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up your nonsense manufactured religion. Here is religion. Surrender unto Me." Who will deny? Any religious person will accept it. Who will deny it? This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who will deny? Who is that man who will deny this statement, that one has to surrender to the Supreme? Who will deny it? Therefore it is dharma. You have to submit, just like the government. The government is the supreme, who will deny? Who will deny?

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, the theologians call contrition. Means an actual thinking about how sinful we are, actually meditating on our sinful condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that "I have infected this disease." So simply thinking, "Oh, I have been infected by this disease," that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence.

Karandhara: Yes. Or it's like a criminal. If he commits a crime, it's nice that he laments, but he can't just lament. He has to start working positively.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must go to the state and offer, "Please kill me." Then state may consider. "I have committed this murder, so the law is: I must give my life. So I am prepared." Then immediately he will be excused. Yes. (break)

Karandhara: ...a devotee came and told Prabhupāda that he committed some wrong doing, and he was very, very sorry, and he was crying and very sorry, and you said, "That's all right. That's nice. Now do something about it. Engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. That is the duty of the physician. If somebody comes, patient: "Sir, I am suffering like this." "All right, don't be sorry. Sit down. I will give you medicine." (break)

Prajāpati: ...what these rascal philosophers do, psychologists and scientists, they say the things that are very sinful actually, that Kṛṣṇa says and the Bible and all of scriptures say are sinful, they say, "That's all right. You may do those things." Not only do they deny God's existence, but they say that which is sinful is actually good for you: "Yes. You must have intoxication, take illicit sex life," like that.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: I don't accept it.

Prabhupāda: Then? No sane man will accept. The so-called scientists, begin, all beginning is like that. "There were chemicals, these chemicals." Now wherefrom these chemicals came? Who placed these chemicals? They do not ask. Because they are fools, the other fools bluff them and they accept it. But we are not going to accept. We shall inquire. And that is human intelligence.

Girirāja: But they may say "Where did God come from?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, God, not "come from." By experience you are speaking that things are... Just like the explosion. Explosion was there because God was there. Therefore God is there. The explosion cannot take place by chance, all of a sudden. There was somebody, some brain, and that brain is God. Because you say all of a sudden there was explosion, therefore that is the proof of existence of God. Is it clear or not?

Girirāja: Yes.

Devotee: Something can't come from nothing.

Prabhupāda: No. We have no such experience. How we accept this nonsense statement? We have no such experience. I can accept something that is going on. Can you show me? So we show. You study with your experience. Where is your experience that something comes all of a sudden? There is no such thing. So how can I accept your statement? Because you say, "There was explosion," that means there is God. That means there is God. So what is your argument? You say that "Why you bring God?" I bring God because you say, "There was explosion."

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Jurisdiction.

Prajāpati: Yes.

Karandhara: That's known as speculation.

Prajāpati: But would it be a good proposition to present Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy in such a systematic way?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you do it. Do it. That is intelligence. Here is the only systematic way to understand God. You simply try to understand the first verse of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then everything is explained there. Now you can... I have explained that, what is meant by God. God means the source of everything. Where is that theologician who can deny it? The first proposition is "God is that which is the source of everything." Now the next question will be, "What is that source, animate or inanimate?" Just like the scientists, they are claiming matter. This should be discussed. Then you come to the conclusion, "He must be animate." Then next question is "Wherefrom the animation came?" Then the conclusion should be that "He is self-sufficient. There is no need of cause." Then "Why people cannot understand?" That answer is that "Even great, great personality like Brahmā, Indra, they also bewildered." In this way, everything is there in that verse, systematical. Yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Now this material world is also creation of God, but it is shadow; it is not reality. The reality is where there is no illusion, and that is spiritual kingdom. That is the place of God. Everything is there in that verse in the beginning. And then next verse is, the so-called religions, they are kicked out from this Bhāgavatam. The religion is God is great and everyone should worship Him. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsara...(SB 1.1.2). And it is meant for the first-class non-envious person. One who is envious, he will think, "Oh, why shall I worship God?" He cannot. One who is non-envious, he understands that "God is great always. I am always subordinate. Therefore I must worship." This is... In systematic way you discuss. "I must worship. Because I am dependent. I am not final authority. So the great... God is great, and I am always small. So it is my duty to submit to the great." So that is bhakti. So you can discuss in a systematic way. Bhāgavata is there. There is no difficulty. And it is said there, īśvaraḥ sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate: "By studying this literature, the God immediately becomes captured." Immediately becomes captured. These people are searching after God, but if one understands Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the very beginning, rightly, immediately God is captured. Sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate, śuśrūṣubhiḥ, "Those who are seriously and inquisitive, for them." Tat-kṣaṇāt, "immediately." There is no need of taking time, that "So many years it will take." No, Tat-kṣaṇāt. These are stated in the Bhāgavata.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you answer them, "Yes, you become a dog, but you become a dog of a good master." What is the use of becoming dog of another dog? Then what profit will be there? Is it not? We are... Actually every one of us is dog. And we are trying to satisfy so many masters. The masters are our senses. We are already dog, everyone, because everyone is servant of the senses, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. So everyone is dog. Now he has to remain a dog, but by becoming dog of these senses, he is not happy. Find out a good master, and become a dog. You become happy. This is our philosophy. And the best master is Kṛṣṇa. We are also trying to be dog, but not of another dog, but real master. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming a dog of another dog? That is not proper. Here the material world is that "I am dog, I have got a master, and the master has got another master. He has got another master, he has got another master." Nobody can say that "I am Absolute." Nobody can say. That is not possible. You must have a master. Therefore everyone is a dog. So why don't you find out the Absolute master, the biggest master? And that is God. "God is great." Capture Him, master. Then you will be happy. That is intelligence. When one comes to his senses, that "I have served so many masters. Neither the master has become happy, neither I have become happy." That is frustration. Everyone. The master is not happy. You serve any master. Ask him, "Are you satisfied?" And, "What you have done, that I will be satisfied? You have to do so many things." So he is not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. Then to become dog of this ordinary master will never give us satisfaction. Always frustration. Just become the dog of the supreme master. You will be happy. Supreme master is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu. Prabhu means master. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name, Mahāprabhu, "the supreme master."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that, that is natural. If you give good instruction to a rascal, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good instruction... But give him practical. "Come here. Sit down. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And help me by doing this." In this way you have to... Just like a child. Child does not want to go to school, but some, by... Find out some means so that he'll be induced. That is intelligence. He'll be angry, naturally. He's a rascal. He'll be angry. That is not unnatural. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Just like a snake. You feed the snake with milk. It will increase the poison. That's all. Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract. (pause)

Local people: (calling out in distance) Harilāljī! Harilāljī!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. At least they are remembering Harilāljī by seeing us. So much benefit was in that. Eh?

Gupta: When we pass, people say "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma."

Prabhupāda: This is the test of Vaiṣṇava. If one is actually Vaiṣṇava, then by seeing him one will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This has been created all over the world. Yes. Wherever we go, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even at midnight in Athens. Yes. That we have experienced. This is the definition given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes (break) ...assistants selected, so many sannyāsīs, and do it. You take the leaders.

Balavanta: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...idea.

Balavanta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. (break) And we shall pollute the whole world with this nuisance.

Devotees: Jaya. Haribol. (breaks)

Prabhupāda: ...become an exemplary gosvāmī to give fight to the gosvāmīs here. You are, how many years you are in Vṛndāvana? Huh? How many years you are here?

Guru dāsa: Two and half years.

Prabhupāda: Two and a half years. Now you should represent Rūpa Gosvāmī, and you should challenge them, "You are not gosvāmī. I am gosvāmī." But you have to be exemplary. Do you know what is the definition of gosvāmī?

Guru dāsa: One who works hard for Kṛṣṇa day and night and one who controls his senses.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...and (Hindi), and this, that, so many, hundreds and thousands.

Mr. Sar: Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad... (BG 7.23).

Prabhupāda: Ah, here is...

Mr. Sar: ...bhavaty alpa-medhasām.

Prabhupāda: But they... Now it is clear. That antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ. That is intelligence, that "If I have to ask something, and it is to be ended, why shall I be interested with such thing?" So devān deva-yājo yānti...

Mr. Sar: Mad-bhakta yānti mām api.

Prabhupāda: Mām api. So why not go to Kṛṣṇa? Why to these... (break) The Māyāvādīs, they think that Kṛṣṇa has got His māyā body. His body's māyā. Because the origin, Absolute, is impersonal, so when the Absolute comes in form, He accepts the material elements just like we do. We do. So they are abuddhayaḥ. Their intelligence is abu...

Mr. Sar: Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24).

Prabhupāda: Vyaktim āpannaṁ.

Dr. Patel: They consider body of Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Avyaktam, avyaktam, the Absolute Truth is avyaktam. And when Absolute Truth comes, incarnation, He accepts this mayic body.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. "Now, the devayājas, they can go to the heavenly planet. Pitṛs and śraddhā performer, they go Pitṛloka. Bhūtejyā. Those who are worshiping this material world, they remain here. But if one worships Me, he comes to Me."

Dr. Patel: Come to Me in Goloka Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is open, but an intelligent person will think that "Why shall I go to Svarga-loka? Why shall I remain here? Why shall I go to Pitṛloka? Let me go direct to Kṛṣṇa." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligent, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to take to Kṛṣṇa wholeheartedly. That is real intelligence. Otherwise mūḍha, whatever he may be.

Dr. Patel: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).

Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.

Dr. Patel: Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Bhaktya-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ. Yes. "Because he has offered Me with faith and devotion and love, I accept it." So when Kṛṣṇa eats something from your hand, then what remains? You gain perfection. All perfection is there. If Kṛṣṇa is accepting something from your hand, "Yes, I will eat it." Then?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. This is intelligence. How Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading, you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa and think like that. That is meditation. That is meditation, how Kṛṣṇa is all-per... Just like in the beginning also, Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). So similarly, another explanation is going to be set up here.

Dr. Patel: Now

śrī bhagavān uvāca

hanta te kathayiṣyāmi

divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ

prādhānyataḥ kuru-śreṣṭha

nāsty anto vistarasya me

Prabhupāda: Yes. So "If I go on speaking, there is no end. But some of the chief principles by which I am all-pervading, I shall speak to you."

Dr. Patel: And the first important:

aham ātmā guḍākeśa

sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ

aham ādiś ca madhyaṁ ca

bhūtānām anta eva ca

Prabhupāda: Yes, ady anta, this creation. Before this creation, Kṛṣṇa was there. Kṛṣṇa was there. When the creation is going on, it is maintained by Kṛṣṇa, and when it is dissolved, then it enters into Kṛṣṇa. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikam.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, material world we can see that it is useless. Everyone sees. That I am giving, this example. Before, the Romans, they constructed this big, big building. Now what is the value of that? It has no value. Simply it is kept as sentiment, relics. That's all. So this will be also the same thing. So where is the utility? Spiritual, apart from spiritual, what is the value of your material activity? It is practical. Everyone can see. If one comes to Rome, they can see that these big, big buildings, they were very nice building at that time, very wonderful building, but what is the value of it now? Anyone can see. Any sane man can see. So why should we waste our energy in that way? If there is any valuable work, let us see. That is intelligence. To make another heaps of relics, is that very good sense? Nobody will go there even to urine or pass stool.

Dhanañjaya: No facilities.

Prabhupāda: No facility. Nobody is...

Dhanañjaya: Only the cats go there.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Dhanañjaya: So many cats are living there.

Satsvarūpa: But just like this building up ahead, they say, "But now we have it, we can enjoy. There are so many facilities there we are enjoying every day."

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. What you are enjoying?

Satsvarūpa: In this building, working there.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. He is controlled in every step, and he is thinking... Therefore rascals. In spite of this big, big house, nice road and good car, they are rascals. But he thinks falsely. He thinks that he is independent; He will not die. Then why does he think like that, like a foolish man? As soon as māyā kicks on his face, he will die. That's all. Immediately. "I have got some business, sir." "No, no, you must die immediately." And still, he thinks that he is not controlled. What is this nonsense? We shall go that side? That is knowledge, that "In spite of my all so-called advancement of civilization, I am controlled." That is knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Then he should think how to get out of it. That is intelligence. And if, like cats and dogs, he thinks that "I am not controlled," then he is no better than cats and dogs. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). By prakṛti, by nature, he is pulled by the ears, "Come here!" "Yes, sir." "Come there!" "Yes, sir." And he is thinking, not controlled. As soon as he eats little more than he requires, "You must starve three days!" And he is not controlled. Just see. How much foolishness. And they are getting Nobel Prize. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: No one has ever gotten a Nobel Prize for saying, "Yes, we are all controlled."

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Devotee: I was taught in religion that God... That is His nature, not that I can't see Him, but He is a person. But that I can't see Him because He's invisible spirit.

Prabhupāda: Invisible. That means you have no eyes to see. Even if He is spirit. That's all right. But invisible means you have no capacity to see. That is the meaning of invisible. That I cannot see. So you're disqualified, that does not mean He's dis... not visible. He's visible but not to you because you have no eyes to see Him. That we also say. Therefore we have to prepare the eyes to see. That is religion. I cannot see at the present moment that does not mean I shall stop (indistinct). I must prepare myself how to see. That is real intelligence. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But you understand, but you can understand also that you'll be kicked out. Don't you understand this?

Bhagavān: He doesn't know it.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Therefore, he's a fool.

Bhagavān: There's a statement that says that...

Prabhupāda: Just like suppose if I do something here in Paris, and if you say, "Sir, as soon as your visa is finished, you'll be kicked out," shall I be interested to create anything? That is intelligence, that "I will be kicked out after two months. Why shall I construct such a big scheme?" That is intelligence. So these rascals know that he'll be kicked out. Still, he works day and night for collecting bricks and stones and he becomes a big man. Mean a foolish rascal, he is considered a big man. Therefore śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Paramahaṁsa: People argue that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore we must enjoy."

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is his intelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?

Paramahaṁsa: But people today have reasoned God is dead with their intelligence.

Prabhupāda: God is not dead. Your intelligence is dead. You have got a dead body, and you are proud of it. Eh? Decoration of the dead body. And you are decorating the dead body. The body's dead. That's a fact. Because as soon as you, soul, get out, it is dead body. But the body's already there. That means I am occupying a dead body. So long I am there, it is working only. But the body's dead. And you are decorating the dead body. You are so intelligent. You are interested with a dead body. And you have no intelligence to see that actually it is dead body. Because as soon as I will go away, it is dead body. The body is dead, but... Just like motor car. It is dead. If there is no petrol, it is dead. Similarly, your body is dead. Now try to understand. And if somebody decorates a dead body, is he very intelligent?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even you are fearless, you should not be fool. Because, if you know that "There is danger, I must be very careful," that is intelligence. That is not fearfulness. Besides that, a devotee like Prahlāda, he's fearless, but he's fearful for others. That is stated. Just like the mother. She knows that she'll not catch fire, she'll not fall down in the water, but she is always anxious to see her child that the child may not fall into the water, may not catch fire. She's working in her own way, but always fearful of the child. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, he's not fearless for himself, but because he's sympathetic, because he knows that all these rascals, they are wrongly wasting their time, therefore he's anxious, fearful. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For themselves, there is no unhappiness. That is their grace. And Vaiṣṇava is fearless, even if he's sent to hell, he's not unhappy. Because wherever he goes, he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually he has no fear, fearfulness. He is only unhappy... Just like we are talking. Others may think that we are criticizing, but we are actually talking. Suppose this, one who has manufactured this big park and he has, next life, he has become contaminated, the dog's life, then what is the use? How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? It is under the management of material nature, maram (?), very powerful. Just like even a big man like Napoleon, he's also under the control of material nature. As soon as the time is... "Get out." "No, I want to finish this arch." "No, sir, you get out." Then where is your powerfulness? That they do not know. For the temporary power, they become puffed up and go to hell. That's all. But they have no conception of hell. These are primitive ideas.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: I was hearing some statement about, from mediumship, of people who had died and they are living on a subtle platform, and they don't actually know that they have died. They are so absorbed that they mentally...

Prabhupāda: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanātana Gosvāmī placed before... "What I am?" Ke āmi. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (CC Madhya 19.151). Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."

Mādhavānanda: Then as soon as one begins to understand who he is, the transmigration stops.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Mādhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, once you said that if we could remember our past life, we would go crazy because it is so frustrating to continue transmigrating.

Prabhupāda: Even in this life we experience so much frustration. Even if we remember now, we become horrible: "Oh, I was in this state of life, I was in this state of life." Immediately shudder. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has saved me." You should be obliged that Kṛṣṇa has given you shelter. You should... "Do not go again to that other platform." That is intelligence. The other day who was telling me that in Northern Pole, because there is no day, so many people commit suicide. Is it not?

Mādhavānanda: Sweden has the highest suicide rate.

Prabhupāda: Because that is horrible condition for any intelligent man. There is no day. Why they commit suicide in Sweden?

Mādhavānanda: Because it is horrible condition.

Prabhupāda: On account of that?

Mādhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, just see.

Mādhavānanda: So I hear.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So how He can be no name? He says, "Hallowed be Thy name." He has name. Therefore he says like that.

Vedavyāsa: But there's no name in the Bible...

Prabhupāda: That doesn't mean... He might not have mentioned or you have not noted. But when he says, "Hallowed be Thy name," there must be the name. Therefore I said if you don't know the name, you take it from us. That is intelligence. Why should you say that there is no name. He says the "Hallowed be Thy name." There must be name but you do not know. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: He thinks that it's purposely done not to say the name of God, to...

Prabhupāda: Because there is name, you find out.

Vedavyāsa: He said that when it says, "Hallowed be Thy name," it's meant in this way: that there's no mention of a particular name to be respected...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. So that we say that God has no particular name. But according to His action His name is there. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not the name. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractiveness.

Professor Durckheim: Just as Buddha is not a name.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Because He's man of knowledge, therefore He's called Buddha.

Dr. P. J. Saher: The one who has reached...

Prabhupāda: Buddha. Buddha means one who has perfect knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. And therefore they are rascals. No intelligence. Intelligence is there, but it is so covered that it is almost like trees. Trees are also intelligent because it is life. There is intelligence. You will see one tree is growing. If there is wall, it will grow like this. Have you seen it?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. And it is proved by science. Dr. Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he has got institute. A machine records how a tree feeling. You cut one tree. How it is feeling pain, that is recorded in the machine.

Haṁsadūta: They also hear sound. They made some experiment that when they grow plants with music, they grow more.

Prabhupāda: Oh, just see.

Haṁsadūta: In greenhouses. They play music. Then they become more healthy.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you can hear that lecture, how it was. They appreciated so much. We have no disrespect for Christianity. (pause) At least, expose our so-called Indian ambassador and others... Approach them, that "Help us. What is this? What for you are here?" Even they do not allow by agitation, make the movement very important. Make profit this side or that side. That is businessman. The businessman makes profit when the price is going down and when the price is going up. They make their profit. That is businessman. Just like our Tripurāri, he goes on selling his book in any condition. He finds out some means how to sell in this condition. This is intelligence, how to deal in different circumstances and make profit. That is brain. And if you make condition, "If these conditions are there, then I can make business," that is foolishness.

Brahmānanda: You told me that when I came from Pakistan to India. I was complaining how difficult it was, but you said that a businessman makes profit in any circumstances.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no stoppage of that... Yes. And here, stoppage. Just see. It is clear conspiracy. It is not that police. Police cannot be so powerful that he can stop. If there was any discrepancy, why did not they take step that "You have done... You have violated the rules." They should have prosecuted us. Now, without saying anything at that time, now want to stop it.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: That is false. That I am saying. This is false responsibility. Actually you cannot become responsible. You have no power. Everyone is under the laws of nature. Just like some birds flying in the sky. The father, mother, and children, but nobody is responsible for anyone. When there is danger in the sky, you cannot give protection. Suppose one bird is hit, he is falling. The father, mother, and others, they cannot give any protection. He has to become responsible for himself. Just like the aeroplane. When the one plane is in danger, no other plane come and help it. Even if you see that the other plane is flying a few yards and if it is in fire, you cannot help. There is one nice story that one hunter was hunting birds and he spread his network. So when the children of the parent birds, they become victimized by the network. So when the parents came, they saw, "Oh, my children have been caught up by the net of the hunter." So mother became very overwhelmed. She went to rescue them and she also become victimized. Then the father was intelligent, he saw that "My children, my wife, they all have been victimized, and if I foolishly go to save them, then I will be also victimized. Let me go this way." Take sannyāsa and go. No responsibility. It is not possible when everyone is captured by the laws of nature. How you can help and what is your responsibility? So this is called māyā. The children are thinking that "My father and mother will give me protection," and the father and mother is thinking that "There is my responsibility." This is called māyā. With this false responsibility, they are packed up in a home. But when death comes, nobody can help. Nobody. This is happening every day, every moment, and still we are falsely thinking I am responsible. So what is the value of your responsibility? If you cannot give protection, then what is the value of your responsibility? There is no responsibility. The only responsibility is that I have got this human form of life. Even in this life I do not realize God, then I remain cats and dogs, that's all. This is the only responsibility. If you miss this opportunity, then I do not know what I am going to become in my next life. So gaining or losing this opportunity, that is my responsibility. If I am not responsible... (break)

But if the head, king, or president excuses him, he can save. So nobody in this material world can transcend or overcome the laws of material nature. But if one is devotee, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, he can. This is the sum and substance. Therefore, we have no responsibility. If we have touched fire, then it must burn. So whatever we may be, very big man, we cannot violate the laws of nature. Tit for tat we accept. So those who are violating laws of material nature, they suffer continuously. But when he takes to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter, sincerely surrendering, then he can be saved. Otherwise not. So everyone should become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and he should try to save his relatives, friends, husband, wife, children from these clutches of laws of material nature by educating him to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only responsibility. That is intelligence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu kaścit me priya-kṛttamaḥ. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmāt manuṣyeṣu, find out.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: And others, other atheist in the dress of very good sannyāsī, they say jagad mithyā, mithyā. But they say also, brahma satya, they accept Brahmān. They are not so atheist, at least they accept. Then?

Nitāi: Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8).

Prabhupāda: Ah, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is no God, it has come automatically by interaction. But even it is so, how the interaction is taking place? That is intelligence. Interaction, just like acid and alkali. Just like oil and caustic soda. These are two chemicals and mixing them, interaction, the result is soap. Accepting this principle, but there must be a mixer, a person who is mixing. Otherwise, how the soap and oil is being mixed? The soap is there and the oil is there and the caustic soda is also there, that is material ingredient. But they are not coming together automatically. That is not possible. Where is the evidence? There are so many soap factories, and let them keep oil and caustic soda and there is no question of labor, let them become soap. Where is that evidence? But these rascals say like that. Aparaspara sambhūtam. Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence. Pramāṇa, there must be evidence. Otherwise... Just like science means simply not to see observation that things are taking place, but experiment. It must be substantiated by experiment. Just like theoretically everyone knows that two chemicals, soda and alkali, mixes together and there is interaction, effervescence. But who is mixing the soda and alkali, er, alkali and acid? There must be. Therefore the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence." That is God. Under God's superintendence things are coming. Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. He has got many multi powers and energies, they are working. Just like in nowadays electronic. You type your "a" and thousand miles away another typewriter will strike immediately "a", is it not? It is called, what is called?

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya pracūra. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya... Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's very difficult to control my mind when I chant. It wanders.

Prabhupāda: So what is the controlling of mind? You have to chant and hear, that's all. You have to chant with your tongue, and the sound you hear, that's all. What is the question of mind?

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems unfortunate that if the devotees cannot live in the temples, then they have to work for some karmi just to support themselves, and then they do not have time to go on the saṅkīrtana party. So it is such mercy to be on the saṅkīrtana party. So it seems very unfortunate that they do not have the time.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is helpful. If you want to do business, you must take the first opportunity, the greatest opportunity, do your business. That is intelligence. And if we think, "All right, I shall do slowly. In seven hundred lives I shall become perfect," that is another thing.

Bali Mardana: It is riskier to stay outside.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise why you are opening so many centers and making arrangement that "We shall provide you with shelter, with food. These are the facilities. You live here, do whatever is your capacity. Don't sleep, but work." This is our teaching. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt, this is also, and Rūpa Gosvāmī says, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge sadbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati: "If you live with the association of sādhu, devotee, then it will be quickly fruitful." And if you live with these ordinary men, then whatever you have got will be finished very soon. There is another verse. It is said there that it is preferred to live within the cage surrounded by fire than to live with the nondevotees. It is preferred.

Bali Mardana: Or with those who are too much attached to women also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nondevotee means too much attached to woman. That is the plain fact.

Yaśodānandana: Also one time in Bombay you told this verse from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), sādhu-saṅga...

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Identity is there. That, therefore, I have already said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. Both of them are identical so far nitya is concerned or cetana is concerned, but one is dependent, and other is maintainer. That is difference. Both of them are truth. Both of them truth. You are truth; I am truth. You are living; I am living, existing. This is truth. This is truth, but you are professor and I am something else. That is temporary. But so far you are, as living being, and I am, as living being, that is truth. But your dress and my dress, that is temporary. So we have to understand like that. In this material world we are mixed up with temporary and eternal. The living entity is eternal, but his body is temporary. This is the position. So the problem is: why the eternal has got temporary things? That is hampering his ānanda. Just like I am sitting here. Now, if somebody says, "Now you'll have to die and accept another body," this is not very pleasing to me. Or even I am sitting in this apartment, and somebody..., "No, you change your apartment. Come. Come here." Again I change another apartment. So I'll seek after: "Why I am changing this apartment? Is it not possible to get an eternal apartment?" That should be the brahma-jijñāsā. That is... Vedānta-sūtra first says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Why I am subjected to this change?" That is intelligence. "Why not eternal apartment if I am eternal?" That is intelligence.

Professor: Did you say that for the ātman, are part of the eternal? For the ātman, it is... A need for the being is for the purpose, ānanda.

Prabhupāda: Ānanda, yes.

Professor: That means he is inquiring...

Prabhupāda: Nature, nature ānanda.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Mars. This is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He's not seeking after where is eternal happiness. He's... Temporarily, he's seeking here, there. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. In this way his life is finished, seeking ānanda, and he gets another body, another term. So his intelligence is not coming to the point that "What is this ānanda? I am eternal. I am seeking eternal ānanda. Why this ānanda? Sometimes this body, sometimes this position, sometimes that position—what is this?" That is intelligence.

Professor: I understand it very well from the point of view of particular individual and ātman...

Prabhupāda: Individual, we are part and parcel. The same thing: the supreme eternal, and we, means subordinate eternal. We are of the same quality. Quality is the same but quantity different. Therefore our knowledge quantity and his knowledge quantity different. Therefore we should take knowledge from Him, who has large quantity of knowledge. We have got tiny quantity of... This is the difference. He is also cognizant, I am also cognizant, but his knowledge is vast, unlimited; my knowledge is tiny. Therefore, if I want to know more, we should know from Him. That is perfect knowledge. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the process.

Professor: May I ask a personal question?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Professor: I heard that you were a chemist before.

Prabhupāda: I was not chemist, but I was manager in a big chemical factory. Therefore, automatically, I learned something of chemist. And later on I started my own chemical factory.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: How it is scientific? Life is already there. Not that the life production is depending on your future scientific research. The life is already going there, hundreds and thousands and millions. You say that you do not know. Why you are claiming that "In future we shall know"? There is no need of your knowing, it is already going on. You do not know. That is your position. And still, you are declaring yourself as scientist. You are misleading. You can make a fool's paradise, that is another thing. But you do not know at the present moment, but the things are going on. Life is being produced without your knowledge. So you admit that you have no knowledge. And without having knowledge, you are declaring yourself as scientist—how much cheating it is. It is not that it is depending on your future knowledge. It is already going on. Life is being produced. So if you think that in future, by chemical combination you will produce life, so that chemical composition is already there, going on. So you have to find out who is that scientist, not that chemical composition. Who is that scientist who is producing so many lives and chemicals? That is real intelligence.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we title our book as "The Origin of Life in Matter." We do not talk simply "life" because...

Prabhupāda: Origin of everything.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Matter, crude matter, origin of the chemicals, the, this carbon, hydrogen, these elements, these also, there is a brain behind it who made these chemicals.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: I guess we're not independent of our death.

Prabhupāda: You want to be independent?

Haṁsadūta: He says that "I guess we are not independent of our death."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Very... Thank you. (laughter) That is intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not accepting God in lifetime, they will meet God, death. Death is another form of God. That they cannot deny. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He simply defied God, and Nṛsiṁhadeva came, finished everything within a second.

Reporter: Is this something where we can sort of experience death while we are still alive?

Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.

Reporter: A dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Reporter: Why a dog?

Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?

Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Guest: It is possible?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even if it is not possible, but you have to accept there is a supreme scientist. If you cannot see Him, that is your disqualification. That is your disqualification. But you have to admit that there is a supreme scientist. If you say that hydrogen and oxygen mixed together makes water, that's all right. But who has created this big sea and ocean? Wherefrom the hydrogen, oxygen came? Who supplied? That is intelligence. Simply theoretical I know, but I cannot say who has created this big, vast mass of water by mixing hydrogen, oxygen. Wherefrom such huge quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came? Our point of view, that you scientists, you say that hydrogen, oxygen creates water, and here we see that somebody has created, but not somebody will know who is that body, how great He is. And that is our credit. If you want little credit by experimenting, hydrogen, oxygen mixed together, then how much credit should be given who has created the vast Atlantic Ocean, not only one, millions! Why don't you give credit?

Guest: You should give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our point.

Guest: But are you not giving credit?

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is giving. They are denying. Especially these so-called scientists, they are denying the existence of God.

Devotee: "God is dead."

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The energy is: Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). The asura's business is to avoid Kṛṣṇa. That is their business. And our business is to establish everywhere Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between them and ourself.

Rāmeśvara: There is one theory that even the atoms have intelligence because the way they combine together to form larger molecules...

Prabhupāda: That means that is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. They do not see Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand the whole philosophy because you have to preach and you have to confront so many atheist rascals.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These scientists need gurus.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists need guru.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They never even think of these things.

Prabhupāda: When they are captured and cornered, they say, "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall do that." Post-dated check. "You take this check. In future it will be paid." Who will accept that check?

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tripurāri: That "God has put us here, and He's given us intelligence, so we're to figure it out ourselves."

Prabhupāda: So therefore, you take intelligence from God, you rascal. Why do you keep yourself in darkness?

Tripurāri: Well, they say that "God has given us the intelligence to figure it out on our own."

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence—you surrender. You are surrendering to māyā, to your wife, to your dog, to your family, to your house, to your nation. Why not God? You rascal. You are surrendering to so many other things. Why not to God?

Rūpānuga: Just like you told that Russian professor that he is surrendering to Lenin, but we are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: But everyone has to surrender.

Prabhupāda: Surrender, this, that is the only way. You cannot become independent. You have to surrender. Who is a man who has not surrendered? At least he finds out a dog and surrenders to him. (laughter) In your country there are so many people living with the dog. So surrender is the only business of you. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (pause) So Acyutānanda cannot come?

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, "After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?" That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.

Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.

Rūpānuga: Become immortal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real intelligence, not to be bothered by these trifle temporary things that "I am dying twenty years before. If the situation was better, I would have lived more twenty years." What is this mentality?

Devotee: Back to Godhead.

Ajāta-śatru: Yes, we can go back to Godhead. (Prabhupāda enters temple, kīrtana very loud) (end)

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Not renouncing, not renouncing. Just like our (?) think of future, that is also for present benefit. Future, future... The best intelligence is that just like one is afraid of suffering in old age, future. So there is. That is not ignorance. That is future life. So karmīs are thinking future life should be very comfortable. They want to go to the heavenly planets. They therefore act very piously, perform yajñas. That is all future. So real problem is that we are going to get another body in future. So what kind of body we shall get? That is intelligence. Body you have to get. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So one should be very intelligent—"What kind of body I am going to get?"

Brahmānanda: Why can't we have sense gratification and God also at the same time?

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā, that aviruddho-kāmo 'smi. "Sense gratification which is not against religious principles, that sense gratification I am," Kṛṣṇa says. We do not stop sense gratification, but we want to regulate sense gratification like a gentleman, not like hogs and dogs. That is human civilization. Sense gratification like hogs and dogs, not required. Sense gratification... People are following that. Although they are so degraded, still, they have not sanctioned as yet to have openly sense gratification on the street like hogs and dogs. That is regulated. That's still going on. But because the civilization is gliding down to animalism, they don't want this restriction. That is the hippies' protest, that, "Why this convention required? Let us enjoy like hogs and dogs." That is advancement.

Viṣṇujana: The scientists are helping them do that also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: If the operator of the powerhouse, he is operating and running the powerhouse, but it's not really necessary that we go and see him. We can simply enjoy the facilities offered by the powerhouse.

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum—he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull—just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life—these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.

Jayadharma: They say that they don't accept this body as a machine because they've never experienced a machine that can think, feel, and will for itself.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Paramahaṁsa: Well they say that this body is more complicated than any other machine because it can think, feel, and will, whereas other machines don't do that.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The simple truth. But people have no education. That is the defect of the modern civilization. This is the fact, that you are accepting every moment a different body. So after death, you will have to accept another body. Now, we should know, "What kind of body I am going to accept next?" That is intelligence. That is civilization.

Justin Murphy: Do you mean that the, that that, then, will allow me, if I come to that realization, that that will allow me to then continue to improve my mind, continue to study, to think, to gain knowledge...

Prabhupāda: As far... Yes.

Justin Murphy: ...beyond say the normal sixty-five or seventy years that I might live in what I imagine to be this body?

Prabhupāda: The knowledge should be acquired from the beginning of life, from childhood. But if by circumstances I could not get this knowledge from childhood, then we should begin immediately. Because unless we get this knowledge, our life remains imperfect. We remain animal. The animal does not know this. And after evolutionary process, coming to the human form of body, if we keep ourself in the darkness of animal life, then our this opportunity is lost. This is the first problem. Unfortunately, the modern education is... Leaders, they have no education, and they are thinking just like animal that "I am this body." Therefore you are thinking you are Australian, I am thinking I am Indian, he is thinking American, he..., only on this bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. We are different from this body. So unless we understand this point, our aim of life, our standard of civilization, is incorrect.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Because you cannot understand it, you rascals. He said that "Thou shall not kill" and you killed him. You are so intelligent. "And first of all let us kill this man who is advising 'Thou shall not kill.' " Your intelligence is so sharp. Guru-māra-vidyā. First of all kill the guru. That is called guru-māra-vidyā. Guru advised that you take food in goodness, sāttvika. So he first of all advised that don't take fish, just like we are advising, meat, eggs, don't take. Then they thought that "The cow is very pure. Cow is very pure, so let us eat cow, sāttvika."

Śrutakīrti: That is pure, sāttvika.

Devotee: "Every part of the cow is pure, so we can eat every part of it."

Prabhupāda: So when Guru Mahārāja inquired that "You have given up everything bad?" "Yes, now we are eating cow." "What?" "No, it is sāttvika." "No, no, no, no, no. You cannot eat even." Then they thought, "Then what we shall eat? Guru Mahārāja is sāttvika, most sāttvika. So let us eat him." (laughter) So it is called guru-māra-vidyā. "For sāttvika eating, let us eat Guru Mahārāja." This is intelligence. "Why so much botheration seeking here and there? The Guru Mahārāja is there." (end)

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: To make you garlands. (break)

Prabhupāda: This beginning and end, that is troublesome. So in the material body, it has beginning and end. Therefore it is... But they do not understand it. They think, "It is all right." I don't want to end this body but there is end. Neither I want to begin, but there is beginning. That is the trouble. But we are so dull-headed, we do not understand that anything which has beginning and end, that is troublesome. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate: (BG 8.19) "It begins and ends." That requires intelligence, that "I am eternal. Why should I accept anything which has beginning and end?" That is intelligence.

Devotee 6: Was there a time when there was no material world?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee 6: Was there a time when there was no material world?

Prabhupāda: No, no. The material world in potency is always there. But it has got a manifestation, beginning, and again end. It begins from God, and again it ends in God. But God is eternal. (break) ...feeling of your, it is manifested, and sometimes it is not manifested. But the feeling potency is there. Just like sometimes I become angry and sometimes not angry, but the potency of becoming angry is there. That is eternal. Similarly, the material world, the material energy, or the material nature, is permanent, but it is sometimes manifest, sometimes not manifest. It is now manifest. It will end. Again, another body you will manifest, and it will end. But I am eternal.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Previously the only big building was the church.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big church or king's royal palace, like that. Ordinary men, they used to live in cottage. That is especially in India. They did not... What is the use? If you are not going to live there... It is a common sense. But they have no idea. They are thinking, "We shall live forever in this house." And Kṛṣṇa says that "I will come as death and take away all your possession." That they cannot understand. They will think that "No, my possession is all. I will die. I will go to hell. Still, it is my possession." This is. He will go to hell; still, his possession. (laughs) This is intelligence.

Gurukṛpa: They are so dependent that if there is no electricity, where will they get water on the twentieth floor?

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that... There are so many inconveniences. There is no doubt about it. But he is thinking, "Now I have done this skyscraper building, it is my possession, and even though I go to hell, it will remain my possession." He does not believe next life, but he is thinking, "My generation." But if there is no next life, what is the question of generation? Who is coming to become your generation if there is no next life? Hm? "My son, my grandson will..." But who is coming to be your... Because there is no next life, everything is finished with this body, then who is coming to be your son and who is coming to be your grandson? The common sense. But they are so dull, they cannot understand.

Gurukṛpa: You once told us the story of the rich man, and he died and became a...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is also believing next life. But if they do not believe next life, then who is coming to be your son? Why you are so anxious for your son and grandson?

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. Why you should take permission of your father or mother? Your business is your business. Why you are thinking like that, "I have to take permission of mother, my wife, my children"? And who will give you permission? Nobody will give you. You have to take your own permission. That is the way. You have to think that "Now, what is the use of taking their permission? When I am in danger, will they save me?" Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. "When I will die, they can save me? Then why shall I take their permission?" That is intelligence. Nature does not depend on your wife's or father's and relatives' permission. She does not care. When she will ask you, "Die now," you have to die. No question of permission. "Now your time is up, finished. Get out." No permission. You have to do it. Nature can await permission of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's permission. Mama māyā. When the police comes to arrest you, it doesn't... the police doesn't care for anyone's permission. Only the government permission. That's all. Unless the government orders, they will arrest you. The police will arrest and take you by force. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramam: "The rascal does not know, nobody's permission will be accepted except My permission." This mūḍhā does not know. Nābhijānāti: "He does not know it." Therefore he is mūḍhā. It is now looking so peaceful nice, but with the permission of the Lord immediately there will be a heavy cloud and storm and waves and finished everything, within a second. That is permission. (laughs) Who cares for your permission?

Bali-mardana: Death does not discriminate between the high and the low.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is trying to live. That is Darwin's theory also, "struggle for existence." So why you are trying to exist if there is no such thing?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they say, "We don't mind if we're not eternal, but we want to live as long as possible."

Prabhupāda: Why? That is my question. Why? Why this tendency?

Revatīnandana: Some years back...

Prabhupāda: That means it is unnatural. "I am eternal, but this death has been forced upon me. That is unnatural." That is intelligence.

Revatīnandana: Some time back in the newspaper... This old president of America, Harry Truman, died, and it mentioned that he was eighty-eight years old and that in the last eight years he had been in and out of the hospital ten times for surgery. So in eight years he had been operated on ten times. At eighty-eight years old he was still trying to live, and finally he died.

Prabhupāda: Just see, just see.

Revatīnandana: So much misery; still, he would not die. He tolerated all these operations.

Bahulāśva: This Professor Stahl, he was saying that his experience is that everything is changing and temporary. So therefore he was thinking that that is the nature of all things, that they are temporary.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...which is fact? The dreams and phases of different life while passing through, they are facts or I am fact? What is your answer? We are teaching that, you take care of the fact, not of the dreams. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are changing circumstances. The circumstances are not fact but the whole world is taking care of the circumstances not of the sheer fact. This is the defect of modern civilization. We are very much serious about the passing on circumstances, but we are not serious about the person who is going through the circumstances. This is the whole defect of modern civilization. And that is the beginning of real life. If we take care of the circumstances, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs, everyone. Where to find eatables, where to find sex, where to find shelter for sleeping, and how to defense—these circumstances are understood by the animals. There is no need of education. Just like this morning I pointed out. The bird is catching a small fish, "Fut!" He knows where to find out his eatable. And that you cannot do. You also eat fish, but you jump over and take a fish. You cannot do that. But he can do that. He is more expert than you. (guests chuckle) Yes. In the troubled water, he is flying. He can see a small fish and immediately pick it up. Can you do that? So he is more advanced in civilization. (laughter) He knows his techniques. He is greater scientist than you. You cannot do this. A vulture goes seven miles up, and he can see where is a dead body. So even amongst the animals there are many expert scientists than our so-called scientists. But what that science will help? That science may help how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. That's all. And that is being done by the animals. It doesn't require any advanced scientific knowledge. Real scientific knowledge is who is God, to know. That is meant for human being, Not this where to find out a fish very expertly. That is being done by a bird. Where is the use of scientists and philosophers? Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra the indication is there that "Now you have got this human form of life. Find out where is God." That is real science. That we have set aside. That we do not touch. That we have left to the sentimentalist. Why don't the scientists do not take up this work very seriously, "If there is God, where He is? Who is God?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, athāto brahma jijñāsā. So you are all learned scholars. You join this movement and help us. To keep people in darkness, that is not advancement of education. And education does not mean how to find out a fish expertly. That is being done by the birds. Education means to solve the problem of life. And what is the real problem? Birth, death, old age, and disease. That is real problem. So where is the remedy for this birth, death, old age, and disease? That is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are trying, our struggle for existence means we are trying to mitigate how to avoid distress. We want happiness. And Kṛṣṇa presents that "Here is your distress, that you have to die. What you have done for this? Here is your real distress. You might have taken your birth in rich American nationality or might have very good skyscraper building and very, very, nice motor cars. But you will be kicked out at any moment, sir. What you have done for this, that you will be insured for all this enjoyment. Where is that insurance? You are so busy in these affairs, but where is your insurance that you will be allowed to enjoy this?" This is intelligence. You will be kicked out at any moment. Then all your labor is spoiled. And therefore Kṛṣṇa presents this problem first, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. We are looking after happiness, but we must find out where is permanent happiness. That is intelligence, not that I create a circumstance where I am happy for some years and then kicked out. Why don't you touch this problem first? Then you are scientist, then you are philosopher.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: May I ask a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand this. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am expanded by My energy everywhere." So the everywhere how you can go? You love Kṛṣṇa, and your love will go everywhere. You pay tax to the government, and the tax is distributed in so many departments. So it is not your business to go every department and pay tax. Pay to the treasury of the government; it will be distributed. This is intelligence. And if you say that "Why shall I pay to the treasury house? I shall pay the this department, that department, that department, that department," you can go on, but it will never be sufficient, neither complete. So you may love humanity, but because you do not love Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not love the cows; you send them to slaughterhouse. So your love will remain defective. It will never be complete. And if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you will love even the small ant. You will be not interested even to kill even an ant. That is real love.

Dr. Pore: I agree with you that we love very badly and we slaughter the animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So badly love is not love.

Dr. Pore: But is the converse true, that we chant very well and that we can love Kṛṣṇa even when we cannot love our fellow people?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that... We are not... Chanting... We are also working. It is not that we are simply sitting down and chanting. Because we are chanting, therefore we are loving everyone. That is a fact. These Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters, they will never agree to kill any animal, even a plant, because they know everything is part and parcel of God. Why unnecessarily one should be killed? That is love.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So we can describe. (break) Let them take it. If they cannot describe, then take the description from us. We can give. That is knowledge. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Why they should hesitate, "No, no, why shall I take from him? He is a Hindu." Or "He is a Muslim." What is this? Knowledge has to be taken wherever it is available.

Bahulāśva: In the Bible it says that no one has ever seen God.

Prabhupāda: But then why don't you go who has seen God? Why remain foolish? That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you do not know, if you have not seen, then go to guru. Why should I sit idle, "I have not seen; I will never see"? Is that knowledge? Go there where you can see. That is intelligence. "Nobody has seen. Therefore there is no use of seeing." What is this argument? This is no argument.

Bahulāśva: They also say that no one can ever be pure, that everyone is doomed to be a sinner.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Ātmavat manyate jagat. That is the conditioned soul's qualification that if he is a fool, he thinks other, fools. Everyone, he thinks, "He is like me." That is nature. Ātmavat manyate jagat. "Everyone thinks others like himself." If he is a fool, he thinks all are. So these things are no argument. Nobody has seen God? How do you take the statistics? Can you say like that, any statistics, that nobody has... Maybe you have not seen him, one who has seen God. That is quite possible because you have not scrutinizingly studied all the men of the world. Then how you can say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen the man who has seen Him. He will not admit his fault. He will accuse others, "Nobody has seen God." Why? You may not have seen, but why you say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen that person who has seen God. Therefore you say like that.

Bahulāśva: So those people who wrote the Bible did not see God.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is the meaning?

Satsvarūpa: No meaning.

Prabhupāda: It is sure that all the animals will be slaughtered, and if the arrangement is "All right, before being slaughtered, let them live very comfortably," is that very good intelligence? The intelligence is "Why we shall be slaughtered?" That is intelligence. What is the meaning of slaughterhouse? Who can explain?

Brahmānanda: Everyone dies there.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Dies there... A slaughterhouse, what is the meaning of this particular word?

Devotee (2): They're killed brutally.

Harikeśa: A specific place where all the animals are killed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All of a sudden many animals are killed at once. So this is also slaughterhouse. When there is need, many animals will be brought into war and killed. It is slaughterhouse. And the foolish animals, they are thinking, "We are now very comfortably situated." He forgets that "I am going to be slaughtered." Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt, the ocean of slaughterhouse. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt. A slaughterhouse, being accepted as... It is called mṛtyu-loka. Mṛtyu-loka. So still, they are taking it as very comfortable place. This is their intelligence: a slaughterhouse is being accepted as very nice place. What is the answer of these animals who are going to be slaughtered?

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: ...jīva mā mara. The slaughterhouse maintainer is advised that "You don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. "Your position... Now you are... If you live, just see how horrible business you are doing. And if you die, you will be slaughtered. So better you don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. (break) ...nice park, nobody is coming. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we are taking advantage. (laughter) They have worked so hard, they are sleeping. We are taking advantage. So they are escaping or we are escaping? Just see how foolish they are. They have worked so hard, and they are not taking advantage. We are taking. So our policy is that "You work hard, and we go and take from you." This is not escaping. This is intelligence, that "You work hard, rascal. You are foolish asses. And we take advantage." Our George Harrison, he is working hard, in England (?). And he worked hard, and he gives a house, Bhaktivedanta Manor. We are not going to construct. Is that escaping or it is intelligence, that "You work hard and give it to me. We enjoy"? This is intelligence; that is not escaping. That is going on. The capitalists, they are engaging these rascals, asses, in the factory, and he enjoys life. That is intelligence. That is not escaping. You know the story of the stag and the jackal? The jackal fell in the well water. So he was not..., unable to come out. So one stag came there. "What is the...?" "Oh, it is so nice. I am dancing. You see? It is very nice." So he also fell down. And as soon as he fell down, he got on his head and got out. So that is intelligence, that "Let this rascal work hard and make a nice park for us, and we shall take advantage of it." This is intelligence. And it is called ajāgara-vṛtti. Ajāgara-vṛtti. Ajāgara means... The big snake is called ajāgara. So this mouse, they make hole and want to live there. And they comfortably living. In the meantime, the ajāgara comes. He eats that mouse and lives comfortably. So our is ajāgara vṛtti. You work for the hole to live comfortably, but we take possession of the house and live comfortably. (break) ...Los Angeles the storekeepers, they ask our men that "You do not work. You live so comfortably. And working so hard, we cannot live so comfortably." And as soon as we ask that "You also come and join," they will not. "No, we shall work like this."

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Ambarīṣa: When we get to the spiritual sky, we'll always be able to remember how horrible it is down here? We'll always be able to remember how terrible it is in the material world?

Prabhupāda: It is terrible.

Ambarīṣa: Yes, we will be able to remember that.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. When one remembers that this world is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), is a place of misery, then we can go. As long as we shall think, "Oh, it is very nice place," we have to remain. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, "All right, remain in this very nice place."

Brahmānanda: You gave the example yesterday of Lord Indra. When he took birth here as a hog, then he didn't want to leave. He thought it was nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he also thought it is a very nice place.

Kāśīrāma: Queen Kuntī was always praying that the calamities would happen again and again so that she would remember Kṛṣṇa. If the calamities are always happening in the material world, we will realize it is a terrible place to stay.

Prabhupāda: This is jñāna, knowledge. When one comes to this conclusion, "This is worthless," that is jñāna, knowledge. And so long one will think, "No, it is not always bad, sometimes very good," that is ignorance. (laughs)

Kuruśreṣṭha: They say that without the bad, then the good wouldn't be as good.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Thank you, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see. He is being trained up. Just see how he is taking lesson. So it is possible. So from childhood, if he is trained up, then in future he will become first-class man.

Jayatīrtha: Sometimes people complain that we don't give our children any right of free choice, that we train them in our own way.

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense, to give free choice to the child. This is nonsense. Child should be protected. That is intelligence. That is the wrong type of consciousness. According to Vedic civilization, a child, a woman, a brāhmaṇa, a cow, and an old man they should be given protection, not freedom, but protection.

Jayatīrtha: At the same time in that Time article it discussed that about fifty percent of the crime was done by children under eighteen and people are afraid even to go to the schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.

Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Wax: ...some young people were attracted to the message and responded and joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is there a special reason? What explanation do you have why some...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The special reason was... That was published in one paper, Voice East. What is that?

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is intelligence. That is intelligence. These, all these rascals, they are unnecessarily wasting. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Simply they are wasting time. That's all. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

(SB 1.2.8)

You are executing your duties as scientist or as anything, but if you don't have faith in the words of viṣvaksena, then you are simply wasting your time.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's one of the chapters in our book that Mādhava is working, that inductive knowledge, there is nothing like inductive knowledge. It's all māyā; it's illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is illusion. (break) ...western countries it is full of inductive knowledge. That's all. (break) Dr. Radhakrishnan used to say, on sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), "It is too much." (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He died just a few months ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he died, and brain fag. All his knowledge, last five, six years—he could not recognize his own men.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness you achieve the goal of life. In the present condition we are accepting one body, and we are dying after a few days. Then accept another body. And that body is according to your activity. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. You can get any one of them. You'll have to accept one body. That is called transmigration of the soul. So if one is under this consciousness that "I am eternal. Why I am changing body? How to solve it?" that is intelligence. And not to work like cats and dogs and die, that is not intelligence. One who makes solution of this problem, he is intelligent. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the ultimate solution of all problems of life.

Sandy Nixon: What transformations does one undergo on the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No transformation. The consciousness is there. It is now filled with all rubbish things. You have to cleanse this, and then Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like water. Water is, by nature, clear, transparent. But when it is filled up with rubbish things, it is muddy. You cannot see very clearly. But if you filter it, all muddy things, dirty things, then again comes to the original position, clear, transparent water.

Sandy Nixon: Does one function better in society as a result of affiliation with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Is he a better citizen?

Sandy Nixon: And also sociologically or cultu... Can he work better in the community?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Bhojadeva: Plant?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it dies before. All these food grain plants, when the food grains are ripened, they dry. So it is not required to kill the plant. When it is already dead, you can take the food grains. When you take milk, the cow is not killed. The milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So we are taking milk means blood. The blood is in a red color, and milk is in white color, but it is blood. Unless it is blood, how so much liquid comes from the body? So we take the same blood in a very intelligible way so that cow may live, he can continue to give me more and more, and I take more benefit from the wonderful food, milk. This is intelligence. And because cow blood is very beneficial for health, if I kill the cow, that is not very good intelligence. In our New Vrindaban the cows are giving more milk than others because they know we shall not kill them. They are happy. You'll get from Bhāgavatam... Find out this verse in the First Canto, I think, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). Find this verse. (break)

Satsvarūpa:

(kāmaṁ) vavarṣa parjanyaḥ

sarva-kāma-dughā mahī

siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ

payasodhasvatīr mudā

(SB 1.10.4)

"During the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, the clouds showered..."

Prabhupāda: (aside:) The windows this side cannot be opened?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: So you have to study first of all what is nature's law. You cannot surpass the nature's law. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law will go on. Best thing is, let the hand... the hand can typewrite, but if you say "No, the leg will typewrite," that is not possible. Take hand's business, take leg's business, and combine them cooperatively. Then the body will be nice. If the leg says "Why hand will type? I shall type," that's not possible. "Legs, all right, you walk, and hands that you type." Then combine together. Then it will be nice. You cannot change the different capacities. There is God's law, nature's law. Let the man and woman combine together, live peacefully. The woman takes charge of the household affairs, the man may take charge of bringing money, and they meet together, have Deity at home, together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? That is unity. Combine together, working differently but for the same purpose, for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, then you will become happy. That is equality. Unity in variety. That is wanted. Variety is enjoyment. Variety is not disturbing. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave, all of them fruits, but variety. They are coming from the same source, earth, but Kṛṣṇa is so intelligent—varieties of fruit, varieties of flowers, varieties of grain, varieties of brain. That is enjoyment. So, take instruction from Kṛṣṇa. Why He is sending so many varieties? He could have given one fruit, the coconut. With great difficulty to chop it you can get out the water, no? There are so many nice fruits. Just see Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. So Kṛṣṇa has made the varieties. Why should you disturb? Let the variety be united, just like these varieties are united, and it looks nice, and if you eat that will be nice. Why you want to stop the variety? That is Māyāvādī. Equality does not mean to stop variety. All the varieties combine together for the same purpose. That is required. Is it not? One must know how to put the variety to look very (indistinct). If all the vases have only rose flowers it would not have been so beautiful. Rose is costly, but the leaves are not costly. But the leaves and the rose fit together, it becomes very good variety. That art is required, how to keep varieties together for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and look very beautiful. This art is known to the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, not to the fools and rascals. Why Kṛṣṇa has made varieties? Why you should try to change? That is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When Kṛṣṇa has made so many varieties there is some purpose. That one should understand. That is intelligence. You can organize these farms very nicely. Then this devil's workshop will stop.

Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: They will grow, and they will eat. Rather, they will help you for your eating. The father also eats, but he maintains the family. Therefore the bull is considered as father and the cow as mother. Mother gives milk, and the bull grows food grains for man. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu first challenged that Kazi that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" Both the bulls and the cows are important because the bull will produce food grain and the cow will give supply milk. They should be utilized properly. That is human intelligence. This is filling up with paddy or...? No?

Nityānanda: With food for the cows. This one has forage or fodder, and that one has grain.

Prabhupāda: So everything is for the animals. Nothing for the man?

Nityānanda: The cows give us milk.

Prabhupāda: That's all? And you are not growing any food grains? Why?

Nityānanda: Er... We've been trying to establish self-sufficient cow protection program first, to grow our own food for the cows.

Brahmānanda: There is no land available for growing rice or wheat?

Nityānanda: Yes, but the number of devotees we have to do it...

Brahmānanda: But you have so many machines.

Prabhupāda: All these machines require oiling and keeping nicely. Otherwise it will spoil.

Devotees in distance: All glories to Srila Prabhupāda!

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Ādi-keśava: In Boston when we bought the big temple there, they said... They asked us, "We saw you dancing and chanting in the street right in front of there the other day, and now we see you going into a house on the richest block in the whole city."

Prabhupāda: So why don't you say, "We have pleased Kṛṣṇa, He has sent money"? That is our business. Why should we work like an ass and dog? We simply please Kṛṣṇa, and He sends money. That's all. You see practically. Yesterday I went to see the house. I had no money, but I purchased. Twenty-four lakhs. Wherefrom the money comes? That is intelligence, that you please one person and you get everything. And you rascal, you please so many others; still, you are not happy. That is intelligence. You are going to water the trees and leaves and the twigs and..., but we put water in the root. It reaches everywhere. Yathā taror mūla-niṣecaṇena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopasakhaḥ (SB 4.31.14). If I pour water on the root, all the branches will be pleased and they will give me fruits, flowers, everything. They do not know this science.

Harikeśa: They can't even see the root.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their blindness. Andhā.

Brahmānanda: 'Cause they can't see it, they think it's not there.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: Because they can't see the root, they think it's not there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...house for the last four years. And I went for half an hour; I purchased—without any money. Still, they are so blind, they cannot see the mercy of God. One should imagine that "Yes, there is mercy of God. Otherwise how it is possible?" If they have no eyes to see, they should imagine at least.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Is there any place where people do not die? Then?

Indian man: Besides maybe Kṛṣṇaloka also.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Within this material.

Indian man: On earth, everywhere, everybody.

Prabhupāda: Our real problem is to go there, where there is no death. That is real intelligence. And what is the use of going here and there where death is inevitable?

Indian man: Now, in Brahmaloka there is also.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Brahmā also dies.

Indian man: Brahmā also dies. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...plants are within the sea?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Down?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some plants live underneath the water.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why these rascals say there is no life? We see underneath the water there is life, and in the moon planet there is no life? We have to believe this?

Indian man: So there is life on the moon, Swamijī?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: What successful?

Harikeśa: Now we have these big, beautiful houses. If it's too hot we air-condition it.

Prabhupāda: You have to be... You will be kicked out from the house. You will not be allowed to stay here. What is this success? You will be kicked out. What is your success? You have constructed very nice house. Very good. All credit to you. But I shall kick you out. What you will do? Where is your success? Hm? It is waste of time. That is sane man's intelligence. "If I am going to be kicked out, why shall I spoil my energy in this way?" This is intelligence. But they have no intelligence even.

Harikeśa: But that's just a fatalistic attitude.

Prabhupāda: Why fatalistic? It is practical. You want to live, you want to enjoy this nice house, but you are not allowed. Why don't you talk practically? That is your foolishness, that you will not be allowed—that's a fact—but still, you are spoiling your energy. That is foolishness.

Harikeśa: Well, it's not exactly spoiling. We are really enjoying.

Prabhupāda: What enjoying?

Harikeśa: When it's too hot we can make it cooler. When it's too cool we can make it hotter.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if death is sure in any case... If death is sure in any case, for the thinking man or for the nonthinking man, then why think about it?

Prabhupāda: No, non... For thinking men, for them there is no death; there is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between thinking men and nonthinking men. We are preparing for going... (break) There is... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligence. Now, suppose that here is open field. There is... We are walking very nicely. And the downtown, congested city, that is not very nice. So at least, if I don't spoil my energy to make the place uncomfortable, if I save my energy and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this open field, that is intelligence or that is intelligent? Which is intelligent? We are also going to die. That's all right. But we are going to die like intelligent person, not like cats and dogs. That is the difference.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is, though, that everyone has to work because they have to feed themselves and they have to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are working. We are not sitting idle. Now, for our food, if we just get some food by plowing some land for the animal, cows, and for me, and the cow is giving me milk, the tree are giving me fruit, why shall I work so hard? The business of dogs and hogs, whole day and night simply working for getting food and sense gratification? That is not civilization. Live peacefully, get your nice food, and save time to advance in spiritual life. This is civilization. And simply for little comfort for a few years I have wasted my time in so many humbug comforts. Actually that is... What is this comfort of the skyscraper building? I think it is a mechanical prison.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Matchbox also.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be developed with devotees. Alone it is difficult.

Devotee (1): If I start my own community outside the movement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The community means many devotees.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So you were saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if there is no happiness and one recognizes it, then he goes to guru.

Prabhupāda: Then he must... Just like Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa because he was disturbed. So that is the point where one must approach a guru, how to become happy. That is intelligence. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now inquire about real happiness."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So one who is looking for material happiness...

Prabhupāda: He's a fool.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...it is very difficult for them to approach guru.

Prabhupāda: He is a fool, rascal, blind. Where there is happiness not possible, he is trying to find out happiness. Therefore he is a fool. Which is not possible, if one tries for it, then he is fool.

Harikeśa: But I look around and I see everybody else enjoying.

Prabhupāda: Because you are fool, you are seeing like that. That is the proof that you are a fool.

Harikeśa: They all tell me what a great time...

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Nonsense. (break)

Harikeśa: Well, they have a saying that "Laws are for being broken."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: "Laws are for being broken."

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. If you can break laws, that is intelligence. So many laws. So which way we shall go?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) We can go this way, straight. It goes around the park, around the lake. Usually the mother and the father, or at least the mother, they stay pretty close by.

Prabhupāda: It is double zero?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a z missing. Actually "Zoo Lake" it is called.

Prabhupāda: There are many zoos. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see. They do not check their population. How many? About one dozen? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ten. Eleven. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...He used to collect all these things for guru's cooking. Kṛṣṇa went to collect with Sudāmā Vipra, and all of a sudden, there was cloud and rain, and there was too much water, and they lived upon a tree for the whole night. Then Sāndīpani Muni, other students, came and rescued them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now we have to collect to pay the electricity bill.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is their... That is their stupidity. Therefore they are fit for being kicked. That is the disease-imagining, obstinacy. They cannot do anything; still they'll claim they can do. "Pay me my salary."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the position of the scientist who studies the laws of nature and then he tries to utilize them for his advantage, exploits them?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The law is there. That is not his law. So his intelligence will be there when he understands who has made this law. Then his intelligence. That is intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like making airplane. They observe the bird, and then they make...

Prabhupāda: Now, that they... When they admit, "Oh, this law is made (heavy static) ," then they come to senses.

Brahmānanda: They become?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "To their senses."

Brahmānanda: To their senses. Yes.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as they remain in darkness—"Yes, we are trying to control the laws. Future, we shall do"—they're nonsense stupid. You become educated scientist, mathematician, very good. But ultimately you accept that the law is given by Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then you are perfect.

Harikeśa: One scientist once wrote a book, and in this book a person had some disease, so they invented a little spaceship which was very, very tiny, and they went in through the eye and they saw all of the workings of the body, how all the red blood cells and white blood cells were working and attacking the disease and all these things.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You take decision or not, he will be killed. That you cannot say. You are becoming very much moralist, whether to kill, but it will be killed. You cannot save him. That is not possible.

Harikeśa: So, they should just keep the machines going?

Prabhupāda: No, they should stop this nonsense and save money. That's all. Therefore they are called rascals. It will not be persisting. It is temporary. So why should you spend money? That is intelligence.

Saurabha: They have examined those people, and they say they have the same symptoms as plant life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: Not more than that.

Prabhupāda: And in our list the plants are there. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means plants. There are jalaja, aquatics, and sthāvara means plant. All living entities, different forms... Bhagavad-gītā says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). As many forms are there of the living entities. But what are these forms? Forms means the spirit soul is one, and he is covered by these material elements. That is form. So either your form or my form, but the ingredients are the same, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). (break) The soul is the same, and the ingredients of the body are the same. That is explained in Iśo..., ekatvam anupaśyate. Just like from gold, take from the mine—you make earring or this finger ring, the ingredients are the same. The forms may be different. (break) Apollo airship, thousands of technologists and scientists were engaged to make this Apollo, and it burst out. So they have no foreseeing power that it will burst out. At that time they began to pray to God.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think President Ford said, "Every American should pray to God."

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is conviction. He can say that "I cannot see on account of distant place, the planet," but you see the nearest. So you cannot see distant place things and you cannot see nearest. Then what is the value of your eyes? That means you can see only under certain condition. So condition is offered by somebody else. Therefore you are conditioned. Your seeing is conditioned, because it is not absolute. So how do you believe your eyes? Hm?

Devotee (3): The vision of the eyes is imperfect. We have to see by intelligence, from the authority...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not intelligence; that is fact. Intelligence you should have that "However I can perceive by the senses, the senses being imperfect, all our perceptions are imperfect." That is intelligence.

Devotee (3): :Then one may ask, "Well, how do I recognize that this is the bona fide authority?"

Prabhupāda: :Who authorized? Another rascal, that's all. He's a rascal. Another rascal... Just like sva-vid-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). A lion is being praised by the rabbit in the jungle. The rabbit is also animal; lion is also. So what is the use of lion being praised by a rabbit? If a lion is praised by a rabbit, does it mean lion is more than animal? So similarly, these so-called scientists, big men, they are being praised by small rascals. That does not mean on account of praising, he has become more than animal. He remains animal.

Devotee (3): :We see Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but they see Him as a common man like themselves also.

Prabhupāda: :Therefore they are mūḍhas. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Only the mūḍhas can deride. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ (BG 9.11). It is stated already.

Morning Walk -- November 15, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lokanātha: How they turn all together and how do they communicate each other that "Yes, let's move out away"?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got intelligence. You are thinking that they have no intelligence. They have got complete intelligence.

Lokanātha: They have, but how do they all together decide to either turn right or left or...

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. You do not know that. If you are given airplane, so many, you'll, immediately at least half a dozen will be finished. (laughter) That means you are less intelligent than the birds, at least in the matter of flying.

Indian man (3): (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...you wanted to construct apartment house. Is it possible to do now?

Saurabha: No.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Saurabha: Because we don't have the required garden space yet. We have to break down the huts in the back. There's some hutments there, and unless those are removed, we cannot do any other construction.

Prabhupāda: No. We can make plan including hut but we can begin.

Saurabha: Then we are short of S of I.(?) We don't have. All these houses have to be broken down to get more space and also the sufficient S of I to plan the building.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is proven? You cannot say what is the chemical there, wherefrom came. Is that proof? "We cannot say." Is that proof?

Harikeśa: Well we know how they interact. We may not know how they got here but we know what they do once they are here.

Prabhupāda: No... Knowledge means to find out the source. That is knowledge. Where from it comes. There is a good example we studied in our childhood. A child was very intelligent so he was beating on a drum, so he was very much inquisitive, "Where from the sound is coming?" Then he cut the surface... (laughing) That is intelligence. Inquisitive... where from the sound is coming? Although it was childish but that is innate intelligence.

Hari-śauri: Scientists are trying to do that. They are taking...

Prabhupāda: And that is alright. In future! (laughter)

Smarahari: The scientists say that the sun is made of certain elements and all the stars they are made of the same...

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you make an imitation sun here? At night so that you may save so many expenses. So much expenses for electric. The rascal. If you know the chemicals then you make it. Ha? What do they say?

Smarahari: They say there are many suns... but...

Prabhupāda: That's alright. Make you one sun, if you know! Many suns but you have not made anyone of them. You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence. Huh? What do you say? Anybody?

Akṣayānanda Swami: They cannot do.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sir, we must have wasted our many lives in past, and we have come to this stage, who knows how...

Prabhupāda: Hm, we have come to this stage, we are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You do it, now. Why you are delaying? If after many, many births I have come to this conclusion, surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why don't you do it now? That is intelligence. (Hindi about rupees) How rascal he is! (Hindi joke) (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all your duties and just come to Me. Immediately." (Hindi) These boys, they did it! That's all.

Dr. Patel: We are grateful, sir.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Yes... (Hindi) No, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the nicest movement. Only intelligent man can take it. It is a fact. It is a fact.

Dr. Patel: Maybe (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: Fools, there are all fools; otherwise why the movement is there? The movement is there for correcting the fools. Otherwise there is no need of...

Dr. Patel: So many fools are corrected... (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (Hindi conversation with passerby)

Dr. Patel: One of the renowned poet of Gujarat. His house is right next to the main temple in Dvārakā.

Prabhupāda: There was one devotee, he, some Queen or somebody, she was approached by somebody, that two poets are come... Ah, Kalidāsa, yes. "Kalidāsa poet has come to see you." So she immediately said, "I know only two poets, Vyāsadeva and Valmikī, and all other poets I kick out!"

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Like us. (laughs raucously)

Prabhupāda: The Doctor is...

Dr. Patel: Before you came here... You can say anything...

Prabhupāda: This is intelligence. This is not mūḍha; this is intelligence. Guru mora mūrkha dekhi' koril śāsana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one."

Dr. Patel: So you see me also that way...

Prabhupāda: No. That means He is intelligent. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool, that's a fact, but He presented Himself like that. He is most learned, but He presented before guru, "I am useless, worthless." Tṛṇād api sunīcena...

Dr. Patel: I myself, sir, we are all (indistinct) not like you, we are worthless, we people. Unless you understand your worth... We are really worthless.

Prabhupāda: That is very good. /Tṛṇad api sunīcena/ taror api sahiṣṇunā/ amānin mānadena/ kīrtanīya sad hariḥ. That is the qualification for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, giving all respect to others, expecting no respect for oneself. These are the qualifications to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁs kṣāntir ārjavam. Amanitva. Although he is very qualified, he says "No, no, no. I have no qualification." Amanitvam. This is amānitvam. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. This is the beginning of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahims kṣāntir ārjavam. The materialistic, everyone, they're not amānitvam, our, "I'm so respectful."

Page Title:	That is intelligence (Conversations 1969 - 1975)
Compiler:	Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:	13 of Apr, 2013
Totals by Section:	BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=96, Let=0
No. of Quotes:	96