Arjuna was respectful to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has accepted to be charioteer, inferior position than Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is on the chariot, sitting on the throne, and, uh, Arjuna is sitting on the throne, and Kṛṣṇa has taken the inferior position, driving the chariot. So this is very nice position for devotional service. Those who are not devotees, they aspire to become Kṛṣṇa. Their aspiration is to merge into the existence of the Supreme, or to become one with Kṛṣṇa. But in devotional service it is not the desire of the devotee to become one with Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes to make Kṛṣṇa as the order-carrier of the devotee. To become one with Kṛṣṇa, it may be a very great position. But to become the, I mean to say, command, commander of Kṛṣṇa, that is another thing. That position is greater than to become one with Kṛṣṇa.
That is another thing (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Man (8): I have some sympathy for you, sir, but I think that tonight you have been postulating the old concept that most of our established religions have thrown out, that is that the reward for the miseries of this life lie in the transmigration of one's soul. But...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is actual misery.
Man (1): But, but but... In the West, our theologies have taught us that we no longer believe in heaven, we no longer believe in hell, we no longer believe in a soul. So I think that if you want to generate some sympathy, you had better change your tack. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, I... If you do not believe, that does not mean the things become null and void. That is not a fact. Suppose a thief does not believe in the prison house. That does not mean the prisonhouse will be closed. A thief may think like that. That is another thing. But the prisonhouse will continue, and as soon as you commit theft, you will be put there. That's all.
Just like religion... Our definition of religion is dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: (SB 6.3.19) "Religion means the laws and the codes given by God." That is religion. Now, God is one. God cannot be two. And what He says, that is also one. So if we accept that one law of God, that is religion. Then there is unity. But if you create your own religion by your imagination, that is another thing. Religion means the laws given by... Just like state law. State law is acceptable by everyone. I have given this instance. The state law is that "Keep to the right" or "left." Everyone accepts. There is no disunity. So if we actually take the words of God, then there is unity. But if we do not take, if we create our own system of religion, that is a different thing.
So those who are in the bodily concept of life, they cannot advance in this real knowledge, that we are eternally servant of God. Our constitutional position is like that. If we do not serve God, we do not agree... We are servant of God, but if we deny that "No, I am not servant," so that means I become servant of māyā. Servant I'll have to remain. That is my constitutional position. So one must first of all understand what is his identity. So this is the beginning of a lesson given by Kṛṣṇa, that "You are lamenting for this body. This is not your identity. This is not your identity. You are wrongly thinking." Just like if your coat is some way or other destroyed, that does not mean that you are destroyed. If your car by accident is broken, that does not mean that you are finished. Sometimes we get accident, that is another thing. But I am not the car. I am not this body, I am not this coat. This is real knowledge. Although sometimes we become little sorry, but the identity is different. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You are talking like learned man, but you do not know your identity. You are not this body."
So to know God, "God is very good, God is great," that is another thing. The science of God... Just like Bhagavad-gītā, by studying Bhagavad-gītā, we know not only "God is great," but we see what kind of God He is, what is His form. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. We have heard in the śāstras that
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
Now that īśvara, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, how He appears sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha? Those who are present, of course, they saw the sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, but because not all of them were devotees, they could not understand Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because He appeared just like a human being, so mūḍhas... Mūḍhas means less intelligent, or, in plain word, asses. Mūḍha means ass. So this class of men could not understand Kṛṣṇa, that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the defect of the mūḍhas.
The example is given, dehāntara. Just like I was boy. Then I became young man. So the body changed. And now I have become old man. The body changed. But I am existing, dehi, the proprietor of the body. So where is the difficulty to understand? Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means "of the proprietor." The body is changing. I can understand that my body has changed. So next life the body may change. "May" not. It will change. But I may not remember. That is another thing. Just like in my last life, what was my body, I do not remember. So forgetfulness is our nature. Because I forget something, that does not mean that things did not take place. No. In my childhood I did so many things. I do not remember. But my father (and) mother, who have seen my childhood, they remember. So forgetting does not mean that things did not take place. Similarly, death means I have forgotten what was I was in the past life. That is called death. Otherwise I, as spirit soul, I have no death. Suppose I change my dress. In my boyhood I was in a different dress. In my youthhood I was in a different dress. In my old age, or as a sannyāsī. I am in a different dress. So dress may change. That does not mean the owner of the dress is dead or gone. No.
Just like everything should be within my experience. This is going on. They never admit that "What is your experience?" You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect, how you can be perfectly experienced? It is not possible. Acintya. There are so many inconceivable powers acting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. What are you? You may cheat some people that you have become God. That is another thing. But the inconceivable potency of Kṛṣṇa, they are working differently. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī says that unless we accept this principle that Kṛṣṇa or God has got inconceivable power, acintya-śakti, we cannot understand. If we put Kṛṣṇa within the jurisdiction of my limited understanding, that is not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). That inconceivable power is also within us. We do not know. So many things are happening. The example, as I gave many times, that the one nail was taken off. Still, it grew exactly to the size of the nail. In my personal body, in the nails. So the doctors cannot make exactly fitting nail, but it is growing exactly to the size.
To maintain the laws of the world, as to maintain the laws and order of a state, there is violence department, the police department, the military department. Why? The government can stop it. "Oh, this is unnecessary expenditure." No. That is necessity for maintenance of the state. Similarly, war is sometimes necessary for maintenance of the order of the world. But people have misused. That is a different thing. But here, in this battlefield of Kurukṣetra, there is no question of misuse. Because it is under the direction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no such question of misusing. War is necessary, but that does not mean it should be misused. There are so many instances. Just like sex life is necessary for generating for progeny. But that is being misused for sense gratification. That is another thing. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "sex life in religious principle." Religious principle means, according to Vedic injunction, putra te kriyate bhāryā, putra piṇḍa prayojanam. There is necessity of a bona fide son in the family, and to beget a bona fide son, there is necessity of accepting wife. So acceptance of such wife and sex life in that connection is not abominable. But to keep some friend and enjoy sex life for sense gratification, that is abominable. But the function is the same.
The more you see Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, twenty-four hours engagement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you'll be practiced to see Kṛṣṇa always. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You cannot forget Kṛṣṇa even for a moment. And that is the instruction. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). These four things. When there is Deity in the temple, you see and you get the impression. When out of the temple also you can see within you heart, if you have developed love for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, officially, you come to the temple and as soon as... "Botheration, let me forget it." That is another thing. But the whole process is meant for developing love for Kṛṣṇa. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is first-class religious system. This is first-class religious system. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the first-class, topmost religious system.
Dharmyāddhi-yuddha. There are two kinds of of fighting. Dharma-yuddha. Dharma-yuddha means right, righteous fighting, and adharma-yuddha means political. That is... One politician, he wants to keep his position, he engages the people in fighting, declares war. That is another thing. But when right thing, violence is required. So Arjuna... Kṛṣṇa is encouraging Arjuna in dharma-yuddha, not unnecessarily killing in the slaughterhouse. Do not misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. The rascals, they misunderstand. By killing, by his whims, he gives the evidence of... Another rascal, although he is learned professor, he says that because this man has killed on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā, therefore Kṛṣṇa is immoral. Just see. This is going on. Without understanding Bhagavad-gītā, even a so-called learned scholar also talking of Kṛṣṇa as immoral. He has encouraged killing. Just see. Such envious persons. And he is teaching Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on.
That is liberation. I am identified just now with this matter. "I am this body, I belong to this country, I belong to this world." This is illusion. And as soon as I can understand that I belong to none of these, I belong to Kṛṣṇa, that is enlightenment. Simply changing the understanding. It is not very difficult. But it is difficult one who cannot understand. That is another thing. But if one can understand this fact, then he's immediately enlightened. Just like this light, it is now enlightened. There is illumination. And as soon as the switch is off, immediately darkness. And switch is on, immediately light. So it is not very difficult to understand what is enlightenment. Enlightened means ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I do not belong to this material world. I belong to the Supreme Spirit. That conviction makes you enlightened. So anyone who has got this conviction, he's enlightened. This is not very difficult.
Now, take for example the other day we had some feasting. We cooked it nicely and offered Kṛṣṇa, and then you took. What was the difficulty there? Was there any difficulty? So many gentlemen, you are present here who partook of that prasādam. How nicely it was prepared and how we enjoyed. So is yajña a very difficult thing? So it is not at all difficult. Simply we have to adopt the principles. That's all. And if we adopt that principle... Here it is clearly said that yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santaḥ. Santa means these things are arranged by pious men and devotees of the Lord. Ordinary men, they don't care: "What is this nonsense yajña? Let us go to the hotel and take to our palatable things." You see? That is another thing. But those who are serious about solving the problems of life, let them take to this yajña principle. Is it very difficult? Not at all. It is rather pleasurable.
We cannot exact any meaning by our own scholarship which is different from the intention of the author. So anyone who is not in the disciplic succession, he cannot understand the intention of Kṛṣṇa, why this Bhagavad-gītā, why this yoga was imparted. You can... You are a good scholar. You can make a... something... Just like our president, Mr. Goldsmith, he knows that expert lawyers, by interpretation, they can do so many things. That is another thing. And in Calcutta, when I was in Calcutta, there was a rent tax passed by the government, and some expert lawyer changed the whole thing by his interpretation. The government had to reenact, you see, because the purpose was foiled by the interpretation of the lawyer. You see? So we are not out for foiling the purpose of Kṛṣṇa for which the Bhagavad-gītā is said. These persons, these unauthorized persons, they are practically trying to foil the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, that is unauthorized.
They have to take shelter of the Vedas. Just like Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya is impersonalist, and we, the Vaiṣṇavas... There are two classes of philosopher in India. One is impersonalist and the other is personalist. So we, so far we are concerned, we are personalist, and Śaṅkarācārya is impersonalist. Now, although we are two classes, impersonalist and personalist, we take Veda as the medium of knowledge. We may give different interpretations. That is another thing. But either party of Śaṅkarācārya or the party of Vaiṣṇava and ācāryas, they take the Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta philosophy, as the medium.
So we are working very hard to become very happy, but that is not possible. That is not possible. We are making deliberation, "This is pious activities, this is impious." That is also good. Doing things blindly, that is another thing, but if one has this deliberation, "This is sinful activity and this is sinful activity," he is better than them.
Our position is that, so far our material existence is concerned, that there are so many things that... But one thing, or the four things, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, that we are under the entanglement of repeated birth, death, diseases and old age, these four things does not depend on war or peace. Suppose there is no war. Can you get free from diseases? Suppose there is no war. Can you get free from death? Suppose there is no war. Can you become, remain a young man all the time? No. Your problem is these four things. You have to solve that thing. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Bhagavad-gītā says that this war or no war, that is no question. So long the human society will be there, there will be sometimes fighting, sometimes peace, sometimes... That is another thing.
As soon as we try to forget Kṛṣṇa, immediately māyā is there. Therefore the reversing process, reversing process, if we want to go back again to Kṛṣṇa, then daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot go back to home, back to Godhead, by your own speculation. That is not possible. Ciraṁ vicinvan. You can go on speculating to become one with God. That is another thing. But if you actually want to know God and see God, then as Kṛṣṇa says, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: (BG 7.14) simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa and māyā will give you no more trouble. You can see Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.
We are always attracted by beautiful things. So Kṛṣṇa is the most beautiful. So if you meditate upon Kṛṣṇa, then your meditation becomes very easy and perfect. Because Kṛṣṇa has said that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). "Of all the yogis, one who is thinking of Me within himself," mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā śraddhāvān, "with devotion and faith," bhajate yo mām, "engaged in devotional...," sa me yukta..., "he's the first-class yogi." So you can become a first-class yogi at home without any expenditure, without any loss. But you come, become the greatest yogi and achieve the result. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice. And we are distributing this system of yoga... We don't charge anything. We are not business man, that we give you something and charge something. Of course, when we give you book, we take, because we have to pay to the printers, to the press man. That is another thing. So far our words are concerned, our service is concerned, we don't charge anything. That is not our movement. That is free.
Swedish man (6): But the number of human bodies increase.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also your misconception. Human bodies increasing may think that from evolutionary process they are coming to the human body. But they are not going to be liberated. Therefore we see that human, congestion of human body. You can explain like that. But even there is increase of population of human body, there is no problem if you believe in God. That is another thing. But if you think that you have taken the responsibility of feeding them, that is another thing.
Swedish man (6): Do you have any sort of teachers in your centers, and how do they get their education if you have any teachers?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got our books. You can see in our books, every word, Sanskrit word, is given, the equivalent English. We give the roman transliteration, explanation, so there is no difficulty. Just like here is one of my students. He has learned Sanskrit now. He can read, he can write, he can edit. So it is a question of learning. There is no difficulty.
Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That is the beginning. Mad-āśrayaḥ. One has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa, directly you cannot take shelter. But Kṛṣṇa is not present. Kṛṣṇa is present, but we do not know how to capture Kṛṣṇa. That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa is... Just like electricity is everywhere, but one who knows the science, he can capture electricity. Telephone wire is everywhere, but still, you have to bring some expert to connect your telephone. The telephone wire is everywhere. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere.
As soon as he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Immediately he becomes the greatest mahātmā. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. A mahātmā like me, because, simply by changing dress... That is another thing. Because sometimes this dress gives us good opportunity for easy livelihood. That is another thing. But those who take this dress for begging and for fulfilling the hungry belly, that is..., that mahātmā is different thing. He is not mahātmā; he is durātmā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that if one is inclined to collect money by showing Deity, it is better to become a sweeper in the street. It is better to become a sweeper in the street, because he's earning his livelihood honestly. And this man who is keeping a temple and doing all nonsense, simply by showing Deity, collecting some money, this class of men, they're most sinful.
You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). This is called bhakti-yoga. Suppose somebody is enjoying, but māyā is very strong. If he falls down... He could not execute the Kṛṣṇa consciousness program completely in this life. Mostly if you simply stick, there is no difficulty. But if voluntarily we give up, that is another thing. What is the wrong there? Chant, dance, and take prasādam. You haven't got to work. You haven't got to go to the field work or to the factory. Still, if you don't accept it—you fall down—so that is your choice. But even if you fall down, because for a few days you joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your the resultant actions for so much time is permanent asset. Permanent asset. What is that permanent asset? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Those who have fallen from this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their next life is guaranteed a human life.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a sectarian, sentimental movement. It is a very scientific movement, to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in the western world, they cannot be misled by sentiments. That is not possible. Sentiment must be there, but that is after understanding. That is spiritual sentiment. That is bhava. That is another thing. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... He also exhibited His spiritual sentiments: "Where is Kṛṣṇa?"
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda-viraheṇa me
This is sentiment. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was thinking one moment as twelve years. Yugāyitaṁ nimieṣeṇa. Nimeṣa means twinkling of an eye, moment. But He was thinking twelve years. And before Him, the gopīs also, they used to condemn the creator, Brahmā, because he created the eyelid and twinkling of the eyes. Which is (has) obstructed seeing Kṛṣṇa.
Suppose you are a businessman. You send your representative for securing business. And if he represents himself to the customer, "I am the proprietor. I am the proprietor," how long he can prolong? As soon as the master will know that "This foolish man is representing himself as the proprietor of this firm," at once cancel. Because there is cheating. He's not proprietor. Similarly, anyone who says that "I am God" he should not preach. He can think himself for acquiring knowledge of God. That is another thing. "I am God." "I am God" means to understand the quality of God, because I am qualitatively God. Because I am part and parcel of God, therefore my qualities are the same. Just like I have several times repeated that a part of gold, even a molecular part, a particle of gold, so it is gold. It is nothing but gold. Similarly, although we are very minute fragments of the Supreme, still, the quality is the same.
Bhagavān: Only if one is envious of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Then there is no question of love, that is another thing, but if you actually want to love Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty?
Devotees: There is no difficulty.
Prabhupāda: That is my point. (laughter) If you don't want to love somebody, then there is no question of process. But if you know, by loving such and such person you'll be happy, then there is process and the process is very easy. And open to everyone. That is my point. Now discuss on this point.
Devotee: Sometimes devotees, they want to love Kṛṣṇa, but they fall down, they can't seem to
Prabhupāda: No, no. They want to love Kṛṣṇa, but they divert their love to other things. That is the difficulty. If you want to love Kṛṣṇa, then follow this—man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then why you are diverting your attention? You are worshiping Deity, you are thinking of loving some woman. That's all. Huh? Why you are diverting? If you love Kṛṣṇa, you are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, just decorate nicely. Why you are diverting your attention? That means I'm not yet convinced that by loving Kṛṣṇa I'll be perfect. That is the difficulty.
That was advised by Ṛṣabhadeva: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All these foolish rascals, being mad, they're acting against the laws of nature. Vikarma. Vikarma means against the laws of nature. That is vikarma. Karma means prescribed duties. And akarma means doing something which will have no effect. Three things are there. Karma, vikarma, akarma. Karma means prescribed duties. If you want... Just like you want to do business, you must do according to the rules and regulations, license of the government. Then you make profit, be happy. That's another thing. But if you act vikarma, against the rules and regulations of the state, you commit theft or this or that, then you'll suffer. Vikarma.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa specifically mentions, Brahma-sūtra. Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). The sampradāya must have understanding of the Brahma-sūtra, Vedānta-sūtra. So all the sampradāyas, they have got their commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra and... Even Śaṅkarācārya. But his commentary is not accepted by the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas because he has tried to derive some meaning, interpretation. But there is no question of interpretation. When the things are clear, in the Brahma-sūtra, all the sūtras are very clear. So you don't require any interpretation. You can expand, explain very elaborately. That is another thing. But you cannot go beyond the sutra.
Those who are intelligent, budha, complete in knowledge. So after knowing Kṛṣṇa, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), after becoming mahātmā, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, bhajante. Mahātmanas tu māṁ pārtha daiviṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). Without any deviation, ekam. So if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any deviation, then... There are other demigods, that is admitted. But Kṛṣṇa is the root.
- yathā taror mūla-niṣecaṇena
- tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ
- yathā prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyānāṁ
- tathā sarvārhanam acyutejya
- (SB 4.31.14)
You don't require to worship any other demigods. All demigods, they're our respectable. We offer all respect. A Vaiṣṇava offers respect even to an ant, and why not these demigods? That is another thing. But the kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he knows that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme; the other demigods, they're all subordinate. Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). There is no need.
Your father has created this mine, that you are taking this iron? That means you are thief. You are thief. The iron is not your property. The iron is there already. If it is already there, you must conclude it is somebody's property. So you are taking it away without asking the proprietor. Then are you not thief? What is the meaning of stealing? If you take something without asking the proprietor, that is stealing. So the iron is there, you are taking from the mine iron. You may convert into various things. That is another thing. But the original iron, to whom it belongs? Kṛṣṇa declares in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor." So He is the proprietor. Sarva-loka, all planets. So in this planet, when you find this iron, then whose property it is? When you find it, you must know it belongs to somebody. And who is that person? Without asking that person, without taking permission of that person, if you take away, are you not thief?
Under the spiritual energy, one can understand his position, his relationship with God. Therefore it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manaso jñātvā mām, avyayam. Their business is bhajana. Bhajana means bhakti. Bhaj-dhātu. From bhajana, bhakti and bhajana, bhakti, bhaj-dhātu. Bhaja sevanam. Bhaj-dhātu means offering service, rendering service. So bhakti, bhajana, bhakta, bhāgavata—they are coming from the same root, bhaj-dhātu, Sanskrit. Those who know Sanskrit... So this is the sign of mahātmā. Bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ: "Without any deviation, without any other occupation, they are always engaged in devotional service." This is mahātmā. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. There are many, so many bogus mahātmās, the swamis, yogis, and incarnation and so many rascals, all rākṣasas, atheist. Such kind are not mahātmās. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That mahātmā, who is actually mahātmā, means bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ, engaged fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is ma... Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Sudurlabhaḥ means very, very rare to find out. The rascals posing themselves as mahātmā, that is another thing. That is not authorized.
Kṛṣṇa said that "You give Me patram, means vegetables, flowers, fruits, and phalam, fruits, and some liquid, water or milk." Kṛṣṇa does not say, "You give Me meat or egg or fish." No. Kṛṣṇa can eat everything, He's all powerful, but He does not eat, although He is all powerful. He can eat everything. He can eat fire. That is another thing. But because we have to take prasādam, remnants of foodstuff, Kṛṣṇa, therefore He says, "Give Me this: food grains, milk, or fruits and flowers." Prepared or unprepared, it doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa wants that. We... So far the Vaiṣṇava is concerned, sometimes they come forward to fight with us: "Why we should be vegetarian?" No, no, we have no quarrel with the nonvegetarian. Let them eat at their risk. But because we recommend, "You take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam," therefore we must be satisfied with this patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), nothing more than that.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means one who has at least understood what is God. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins His teaching where Kṛṣṇa ended. Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same Personality of Godhead. As Kṛṣṇa, He demanded... Because God can demand like that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender unto Me." What God can say? God cannot say that "You jump over My head." God can say like that, "You surrender." That is God's word. God cannot allow you that you jump over His head. You can jump over His head, but that requires great advancement of love for God. That is another thing. Just like the cowherd boys, they are jumping over Kṛṣṇa. That position... You can also have, but after kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. After amassing many lives' simply pious activities, you can have that post.
Prabhupāda: ...with the body? The body's already in trouble.
Guest (1): It's not useless.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (1): This body is not useless.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): Why do you (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: No, I don't require. Of course, there is a process which is called tapasya. That is another thing. Tapasya, according to our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we also undergo tapasya. Just like we say that "Don't have illicit sex life."
Guest (1): If you follow yama, niyama, then...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (1): If you follow yama and niyama then...
Prabhupāda: This is yama and niyama, that you don't have illicit sex life, don't eat meat, don't take intoxication, don't engage yourself in gambling, and observe ekādaśī fasting, janmaṣṭamī, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So our method is very simple. Everyone can follow.
If you have learned to love God, then it doesn't matter what type of religion you are following. The Bhāgavata is very liberal. It does not say it, "If you follow Hindu religion or if you follow this type of religion, then you will understand God." No. Any religion, it doesn't matter. But the test is whether you have advanced in loving God. But if we see that instead of loving God, you are loving something else which is not God... Of course, God is everything. That is another thing. Without God, there cannot be anything. But still, there is the central point. It is described in the Bhagavad-gītā that because everything is the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but everything is not God... That is explained. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). Kṛṣṇa says that "I am expanded in My impersonal feature everywhere. But I am not there." It is very simple to understand.
This is test. If we want to cheat others, that is a different thing, that "I have become very advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is another thing, cheating. But you test yourself by this process, whether you are free from lust and greediness. This is the test. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ (SB 1.2.19). And when you become free from these two things, lust and greediness, tadā, ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Ceta, consciousness, not being attacked by these two nonsense things, ignorance and passion... Ceta etair anāviddham. Viddham means piercing. They are always piercing, pinching, pinching. "Come on, come on." They are always pinching. But if you are actually situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things will not pinch you. Tadā, ceta etaiḥ... Because everything is in the heart. Whole thing is cleansing the heart.
"My dear Arjuna, even if you go up to the Brahmaloka, with so much long duration of life..." Kṛṣṇa does not speak that "You go down." Of course, that is for the third-class, lowest class of men. That is another thing. But even if you first-class man and by your pious activities you go up to the Brahmaloka, so punar āvartinaḥ, you have to again fall down. Mām upetya kaunteya: "But if you come to Me, then there is no such fear that you'll fall down." Mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. "Then you haven't got to come here and again take birth."
Of course, if Kṛṣṇa's order is there, that is another thing. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was ordered by Kṛṣṇa, "You fight." When Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," you must fight. Not that Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," and you say, "No, I have taken Your shelter. Why shall I fight?" No, that is not. That is disobedience. When Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," you must fight. When... Our life should be that whatever Kṛṣṇa says... That is full surrender. Or His representative says, that is my life. Viśvanātha Cakravartī has explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
- ekeha kuru-nandana
- bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
- buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
- (BG 2.41)
So our... We should be fixed up on the order of Kṛṣṇa coming through the spiritual master. Then our life is successful. This is the secret of success in spiritual life. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. This is assured.
Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. There is no other method. There are methods, but you cannot perform it. You are so condemned. "You" means we also, everyone. We are so condemned and the age is so condemned that it is very, very difficult. It is not possible. And another process is this, as Nārada Muni says, ucchiṣṭa-lepān anumodito dvijaiḥ. To serve the devotees, a pure devotee. If you serve some way or other, you contaminate his quality. Tad-dharma. Sakṛt bhuñje. One side is apāsta-kilbiṣaḥ. Kilbiṣaḥ means the sinful reaction of life. To reduce the reaction of sinful life. Because unless we are sinful, we cannot remain within this... A prisoner means a criminal. As soon as you find a person in the prisonhouse you should understand that he's a criminal. That criminality may be of different degrees, that is another thing, but he's a criminal. Similarly, anyone, beginning from Brahmā down to the germ in the stool, they're all sinful. All sinful. People will be surprised that "Brahmā is also sinful?" Yes. Brahmā has also desired that "I shall be the supreme creature within this brahmāṇḍa, whole universe." A little or more.
That is first-class bhakti. And bhakti means there is activity. Ānukūlyena: favorably. Kṛṣṇānuśīlanam: to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Anuśīlanam means culture. The culture means there is activity. Bhakti does not mean zero. That is another thing. Zero, nirvāṇa, means make these material activities zero. That hint is given by Śaṅkarācārya. Lord Buddha said that everything is zero, and Śaṅkarācārya gave further improvement that "It is not zero. Brahman is fact. Brahma satyam. Not zero. Jagan mithyā. This world is mithyā, zero. Not Brahman." Because those who understood this zero philosophy, they're rascals, atheists. They cannot understand more. Therefore further improvement was given by Śaṅkara because he was preaching. The whole world became Buddhist, and he wanted to establish Vedic principles. So they have already made zero. So how Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya can say, "No, it is not zero. It is fact." They'll not understand. He said in a different way, that "Zero is this material world." Brahma satyam. But brahma is fact. This is zero.
But it does not mean because one has got some theoretical knowledge, therefore he is mukta. That is another stage. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, koṭi-jñānī-madhye haya eka mukta śreṣṭha. And so far bhakta, koṭi-mukta-madhye durlabha eka kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is another thing. Koṭi-mukta-madhye. Koṭisyapi mahā-mune(?). So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully devoted, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), it is very, very difficult, the highest position. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). The jñāna, after jñāna, there is the stage of bhakti. Without jñāna, bhakti is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. With jñāna he is uttama-adhikārī. These are described by Caitanya, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So the idea is that if one is advanced devotee, then all the good qualities will be visible in him. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). He has no other desire. Akiñcana-bhakti. If he has got any other desire to fulfill, then it is mixed. It is not śuddha-bhakti; it is vaidhī-bhakti. Karma-miśra-bhakti, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, yoga-miśra-bhakti. Bhakti must be there. Otherwise, karma, jñāna, yoga, nothing is successful. Bhakti must be there. But when karma, jñāna, yoga, everything is without contamination, simply bhakti... Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). That stage is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Simply to satisfy.
So, so long we possess all these things... That is explained here, janma, aiśvarya, śruta, śrī. These are good material possessions: to born in high family, aristocratic family, or brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya family. These were considered high parentage, heritage. Nowadays, everyone is śūdra. That is another thing. Nobody can be proud of his birth. So janma and aiśvarya. If we possess land, home and children, wife, bank balance, that is called aiśvarya. Janmaiśvarya-śruta. And education. "I am philosopher. I am scientist. I am this, poet." So education. That is called śruta. Śruta. Especially Vedic knowledge, śruti. So janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhiḥ. And śrī, beauty. So unless one is very happy or born in good family, unless one..., he cannot have bodily beauty. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhir edhamāna, edhamāna-madaḥ (SB 1.8.26). The more we possess these things, then we become intoxicated. It is already illusion. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). So that illusion becomes more and more stronger. And that is called madaḥ.
There are nine different processes. The most important process is hearing. And as soon as you want to hear, that means you have to concentrate your mind. So naturally, the mind becomes, I mean to say, locked. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. But if we sleep, that is another thing, that "Let the lectures go on. Let me have some rest." That is another thing. But if you hear, if you are anxious to hear, then mind has to be engaged. Without attention, you cannot hear. If your mind is something doing, you are thinking of marketing something, or sometimes..., so you can hear, make a show of hearing, but you are not hearing. Therefore mind is the first thing. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). If you engage your mind in hearing, then you can describe the things in the Vaikuṇṭha, in the spiritual world.
But when one is going to retire, that is another thing. Because life is divided into four parts: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So woman has got three positions. They require protection. Women is never allowed to become renounced order of life. No. They are supposed to be under the care of somebody. So early age under the care of father, young age under the care of husband, and old age under the care of grown-up children, sons. This is woman's position. They remain always under the care of. So Draupadī was being taken care of their husband, but when the husbands were going for renounced order of life, anapekṣatām, without caring, she could understand, "Now I will be uncared for. No more... My husbands are no more in duty bound to give me protection." She could understand. Tadājñāya. She could understand. And there is no such obligation. That is the sanction of the śāstra.
Yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ. Here is another important word. So yathā, as he was foretold, sūtyā. Sūtyā means in the maternity condition, maternity home or maternity room, sūtyā. Still, the system is current in India that when a lady is going to give birth to a child, she is offered a separate room where the child will take birth and all taken care. Nowadays they are sending in the hospital. That is another thing. But the system is when the delivery is imminent, then one room is selected. That is called sūtikā-ghara, or sūtikā room. That is referred here, sūtyā, means, sūtyā, as soon as the child is born, sūtyā, in that maternity room, immediately, abhijāta-kovidāḥ... Abhijāta-kovidāḥ means... Kovidāḥ means expert learned scholars, and abhijāta, they will immediately make horoscope and tell about this newly born child, what is going to happen in his life in future. That is called astrologer. It is called jāta-karma, reformation.
Now, sometimes, in..., the Christians, they say the Lord Jesus Christ sometimes ate fish. Is not that? But... Might have done so. One thing is Christ is powerful. Under certain circumstances, even if he had eaten some fish, that is not fault for him. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). In the śāstra (it) says, those who are very powerful, if they sometimes do something which is prohibited for common man, that is special case. But even if you accept that Christ ate fish, "Therefore we shall eat meat and maintain big, big slaughterhouse, although in the Bible it is clearly said 'Thou shalt not kill,' " this is not Christianity. This is against, violating the rules and regulation of Christianity. Factually, one should not kill. But under some pressure or under certain condition, if it is needed, that is another thing. But generally, one should not kill.
So if you study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll be able to understand the whole material position and how you are situated in that material position, how to get out of it. Everything you'll understand, provided you have got the brain. If you have got a dull brain, filled up with cow dung, that is another thing. If there is brain substance, then you'll be able. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Alpa-medhasām and su-medhasām, they are two words in the Vedic language. Medhā means brain substance. So one who has got su-medhā, nice brain substance, they will understand something. And one who has got no brain substance but cow dung, they will understand something else. So we are selecting, or even if he is filled up with cow dung, by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness education, we can make him su-medhā, fine brain. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Even one is filled up with cow dung, su-medhā.
You have no sense of Kṛṣṇa. Or actually you do not die. That is another thing. This death means in the... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. Those who die before Kṛṣṇa, they attain their original position, svarūpa. So that is real success. Otherwise, there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is not death; when our body is destroyed, that does not mean we are dead. You are spirit soul, I am spirit soul, every one of us, but we have no death. That is another illusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This so-called death, it is not death. Dhīra, one who knows, one who is sober, he knows that "This man or this boy or this father is dying... He's not dying. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: he is just changing another body. He's changing an..." So actually we have no death. The change of body. So we are accepting this change of body as death. That is another illusion. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.
So you must have to follow these rules and regulation if you are serious. Then take initiation. Otherwise don't make farce, don't make farce. That is my request. One has to be very determined, bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. This word is used in the Bhāgavata: dṛḍha-vratāḥ, strong determination: "Yes, in this life I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." This is determination. And what is the difficulty? No difficulty. Chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. You are taking the beads, sixteen rounds. You can be finished, utmost two hours or three hours. So you have got twenty-four hours. If you want to sleep, of course, twenty-tlree lours, that is another thing. You have to minimize your sleeping. If you cannot finish sixteen rounds, then you must not sleep on that day, you must not eat. Why don't you forget to eat, forget? Why do you forget chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? This is negligence, aparādha, offense. Rather, you should forget your sleeping and eating, and must finish sixteen rounds. This is called determination. This is called determined. So you are welcome to take initiation, but if you are neglectful, if you want to make it a farce, that is your business. I cannot give you any protection.
No, gradual process for the others, not for the devotee. Devotee is given immediately and that also in a simple way: in His form of name, nāma-rūpe. You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So devotee is privileged so much, especially in this age, that "You take God, the Supreme Absolute Truth, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." If you do it properly, then everything is done. You are given the thing immediately, but it may take some time. That is gradual. That is another thing. And for others, those who are trying to know the Absolute Truth by their own effort, for them, first realization is Brahman. Then next realization is Paramātmā. And if they can surpass these two realizations, then, some day, they may become fortunate to understand what is the Supreme Person.
People used to purchase this guinea gold for making ornament. We have seen it. There was no... Now you cannot get this guinea gold. So that is all finished. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was very rich man. Still, he's asking Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni: "These foolish villagers, or my neighbor men, they call me 'Paṇḍitajī.' " He was brāhmaṇa. Actually he was paṇḍitajī. You know, in India, the brāhmaṇa is addressed as "paṇḍita." Because a brāhmaṇa is expected to become very learned. A foolish man cannot be a brāhmaṇa. Learned means Vedic knowledge. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. How one becomes brāhmaṇa? By studying thoroughly the Vedic literature, when one can understand Brahman, he realizes himself, hṛdayānanda, then he becomes brāhmaṇa. Therefore a brāhmaṇa means naturally paṇḍita. But nowadays simply by birth. That is another thing.
Dharma means the order of the Supreme Person. That is dharma. The order of the Supreme Person is, I mean to say, open to everyone. Nobody can say that "I do not know what is the order of the Supreme." "I do not carry out," that is another thing. But the order of the Supreme is there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Just become My devotee. Always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "You worship Me. You haven't got to worship anyone else." Mām ekam. The order is open. But we'll not do it. That is another thing. We'll not accept. But still, Kṛṣṇa comes. When this dharma is disobeyed, Kṛṣṇa comes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "Because you are My friend, I am just talking to You the most confidential dharma. Because I have spoken to you in so many ways, but because you are My intimate friend, so I am talking to you now the most essential part of dharma." What is that? "Now, whatever I have said, you can give up." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "I have explained to you about so many yoga systems, but this is the real yoga system: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Bas."
So this dharma is taught by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by His incarnations, by His devotee, by saintly persons. This is real dharma. But we do not take it. That is another thing. But if we take it, then we become benefited. So here it is said, "You are my spiritual master, although You are my son. But I accepted You as my spiritual master. I know You can deliver me from this darkness of ignorance." So atha deva sammoham apākraṣṭum: "I am attached to this material world. That is illusion." Sammoham apākraṣṭum: "Now You dissipate this sammoham." So guru means repeatedly his business is to enlighten the disciple how to become detached to this material world. Simply detachment will not help you. The other philosophy, Śūnyavādi, that you make zero this material detachment... No. That is not possible. We have got... Because we are ānandamaya, we want ānanda, sac-cid-ānanda. Actually, we are searching after eternal life, sat. That is sat, eternal life. And cit means knowledge. And ānanda... Sac-cid-ānanda. We are seeking that.
If you take Bhagavad-gītā, if you believe, if you read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you can understand. And if you say, "It is fictitious, something imaginary," that is another thing. But unless you believe it, you have no authority to touch Bhagavad-gītā! That is nonsense. We are creating so many nonsense who do not believe in the Bhagavad-gītā, and they become commentator and scholar and so many things. Mūḍha. We are not in favor of this business. We are preaching all over the world that if you read Bhagavad-gītā, you read it as it is and accept it as it is. Otherwise don't create foolish anymore. We have produced many foolish person but misguiding them by misinterpreting this Bhagavad-gītā. Stop this business. And if you believe, you have to believe like this. You cannot interpret, that is not possible. Why you should interpret? It is a fact that Brahmā's āyuḥ, his duration of life, is very, very big. Not only Brahmā's āyuḥ, even if you go higher planetary system... You are going to the moon planet. There are living entities. I do not know why they say there is no living being.
So this bhakti is the first-class religion, Paro dharma. All other different kinds of religious systems, they are material. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Buddhist"—these are all material designation. Actually, it is not dharma. Just like gold. Gold cannot be Hindu gold, Christian gold, Muslim gold. Gold is gold. There is no question of Hindu gold or Muslim gold. Similarly, dharma, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means relationship with God. So human being in any society, any part of the world, there is a consciousness or sense of understanding God. The method may be different; that is another thing. But the idea is how to know God. Just like Christians, they say, "O God, give us our daily bread." So there is relationship. Muslim they say, allah akbar, "God is great." So in Hindu-conception generally say, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). So any sense you say, there is relationship with God. So unless you revive your relationship with God which is dormant, there is no śānti. There cannot be any śānti. So try to understand God.
He said that every man should execute his particular duty of life. That is called dharma. Now, we manufacture our duty, that is another thing, but according to śāstra, just like Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Duty means according to this cātur-varṇyaṁ, four varṇas and four āśramas. That is called dharma, sādharma. The brāhmaṇa must execute his brahminical duties, a kṣatriya must execute his kṣatriya duties, similarly vaiśya, a śūdra, a brahmacārī, a gṛhastha, a vānaprastha, sannyāsī. That is called dharma. This is material dharma, this is not spiritual dharma. Material dharma means so long we are under the concept of this body, there are certain duties. That is called material dharma.
This is intelligence. If you are interested in food, that's all right. Everyone is interested in food. The child, he is interested with food only. Anything he gets, he puts into the mouth. He is interested in food. But when he grows up he understand that the food is supplied by the father, by the mother. That is progress of life. If you don't want progress, if you want to remain in the childhood stage, that is another thing.
Every living entity will multiply. That is another thing. I mean to say from cow you get milk. From milk you get butter and so many milk products. And from the fields you get sufficient grains and fruits. So your economic question is solved immediately. If you have got some land, the land is..., immense land is still lying vacant all over the world. Yes. But they have diverted their energy in a different way. That is the miscalculation of the present civilization. They have forgotten that the aim of human life is to advance oneself in spiritual realization. So time should be saved as much as possible, and that time should be utilized for spiritual realization. But we have encumbered our civilization in such a way that we have lost all simple living thing. We have manufactured in so many ways encumbered ways of life. Therefore we have neglected spiritual life. And because we have neglected spiritual life there is no peace. If you want really peaceful life, then you have to make your material necessities simplified and engage your time for spiritual cultivation. Then you will have peace.
Just like the soldier. What is the duty of the soldier? Kill as many as possible the enemies. But the same soldier, if he comes back home and kills some of his men or countrymen and he is arrested and in the court, he is ordered to be hanged, and if he pleads that "I am a soldier. In the battlefield I have killed so many persons, and now I have killed one man. Why you are ordering me to be hanged?" What will be the answer of the court? The answer that "You cannot kill on principle. But you can kill on the superior order. You cannot kill by your whims." In the battlefield the commander-in-chief orders, "Yes, you kill and get gold medal." But if you think the, "I have killed so many persons in the battlefield. Here is my enemy. I kill him." No. That you cannot do. That you cannot do. This is the principle. When there is duty, that is another thing. But not whimsically. We cannot kill. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill." This is the order. "Thou shall not kill." But we are violating the order. We are killing so many animals. So this is not good. On the plea that "Lord Christ sometimes took some fish somewhere; therefore we will have to maintain a big slaughterhouse," this is not very good logic.
Therefore in the śāstra it is said, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: "Real Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa," The supreme controller. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). But if one has got little favor of Kṛṣṇa, he is called bhāgyavān, not Bhagavān; bhāgyavān, fortunate. The word is coming from the same bhaga. I have several times explained. Bhaga means richness, bhaga means influence, bhaga means bodily strength, bhaga means knowledge, bhaga means beauty, and bhaga means renunciation. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). And bhaga means reputation, fame. So these are the symptoms of bhaga. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja, although nobody can be equal to Kṛṣṇa... Bhagavān means asamaurdha. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. That is Bhagavān. I am fortunate, you are fortunate, but we have got many equals and many greater than. But when you reach somebody where you find nobody is equal to Him and nobody is greater than Him, that is real Bhagavān. This is a logical conclusion, who is Bhagavān. Nowadays so many rascals they write, "Bhagavān." Bhagavān. That is blasphemy. If Bhagavān likes, such persons should be punished. But Bhagavān excuses. That is another thing. So Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Nobody should try to become equal to Him. That is not possible.
Suppose a man... Of course, if..., if he commits murder, he's killed and gone. That's another thing. The, the Śukadeva Gosvāmī's proposal was that tasmāt puraiva āśu iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā. "Before your death, next death comes, you should perform atonement so that you may not carry the sinful activities to suffer next life." If I do not commit, perform atonement for the commit, for the sinful activities, then nature will not excuse me. You'll have to take the effect of it and suffer in the next life. The law... As I explained the other day, that a murderer should be killed, that is mercy upon him. The, when the king orders... It is very old law. It is not new law, "Life for life." So that, when the king awards, or the judge, high-court judge, that "This man must be hanged," the judge is not the enemy of that man, but, according to law, in order to save him from further trouble in the next life, this prescription of hanging is there. The..., exactly like that: according to the disease, the prescription of medicine is there. Similarly, according to the gravity of the sinful activity, the atonement is there. If one has killed a man, he should be should be hanged—according to the gravity of his sin. So that is showing mercy upon him. But, if he's not killed, then he'll be killed in so many ways. He'll be... Suppose something, some animal, and this man who has killed. He will take another birth and he will slaughter him. There are so many subtle laws. Māṁsa.
And in the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God means He is also nitya, eternal, amongst the eternals. There are many... We living entities, we are many, plural number. Nityānām. Nityānām means plural number. And nitya, singular number. So God is singular number person, and we are plural number. We are many. God is one, but living entities are many. Not that God also is many. No. God may have many expansion—that is another thing—but God is singular number. God is not plural number. Nityo nityānām. So what kind of singular number? That He is chief singular number. Just like leader. There are many followers. Take any example: in the class room or here, a teacher is one, but the audience they are many. Similarly, God is one, but the living entities are many. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). And what kind of living entity? Now, living entity means living entity, he is also living force. He is not dead.
I know what you are doing. But we should corroborate. But as a preacher we should simply speak the real truth. There is no question of corresponding with your ideas and another idea, no. We... Whatever we know, whatever we have heard from our authorities we'll speak. That's all. It may be somebody may know better than me. That is another thing. But I have to present what I have learned from the authority. That's all. And our authority is Kṛṣṇa, mainly. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upa... That is the spiritual master. Who does not add or subtract from the talks of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. One who adds and subtracts according to his whims, he is not spiritual master. He is not bona fide spiritual master. "I, my opinion..." "I give this interpretation..." He is not authorized. You are lawyer, you know better than me. In your law court you cannot change the law by your opinion. That is not possible.
That is another thing, but that is judged by the expert lawyer that your interpretation is right. And when interpreted. Not ordinarily interpret everything. When it is not distinct. The law point, when it is not distinct then interpretation required. When it is distinct, is there any necessity of interpretation? It is clear. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God. I am the Supreme." So how you can interpret that "No, no, not Kṛṣṇa. Something within Kṛṣṇa." Dr. Radhakrishnan says like that. Yes. That is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... (BG 18.65).
This is a discussion between Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Mahārāja Parīkṣit. The question was that "Why people are suffering in different types of hellish condition of life, and how they can be delivered?" Parīkṣit Mahārāja heard from Śukadeva Gosvāmī that there (are) different kinds of hellish condition of life according to different types of sinful activities. So in this material world everyone is implicated or involved in some sort of sinful life. Just like in the prison house. One may be a first-class prisoner, just like sometimes big politicians, they are put into first-class prison arrangement. A second-class prisoner, a third-class prisoner, there are. But as soon as we understand this man is in the prison or prisoner, it should be understood that he's criminal. He has committed some criminal activity; therefore he is in prison. Now, you can compare between the first-class prisoner or third-class prisoner, that is another thing. But they're all prisoners. They're undergoing the duration of prison life.
That means he is not chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because if he is actually chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, he must be enthusiastic to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more. This is an excuse. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravar... He must be very enthusiastic. Therefore we have limited. If you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you are so advanced, then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. But he will sleep. (makes snoring noise) (laughter) So in the name of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you will sleep. And if you are actually chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you will be enthusiastic, "Oh, I shall serve. I shall..." That is effect. Phalena paricīyate. We have to see by the result. He should be enthusiastic more and more. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. The service attitude will increase. Therefore we have given all the nine items sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes here, but all Kṛṣṇa's. Actually recommended, all the nine, but even one is accepted sincerely, that also give perfection. That is another thing. But actually, we should accept all the nine items: Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanam... And All right.
The same thing. We have no difficulty. If you say, "How can I take instruction from Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is not present." No, Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. Not that it is necessary... Kṛṣṇa is always present, but you have no eyes to see. That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu cayāntara-stham. Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere, even within the atom. But we cannot see. That is another thing. I have no eyes to see. But if I develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then I'll see constantly Kṛṣṇa. This is the effect. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to develop love for Kṛṣṇa. So one who has developed this love for Kṛṣṇa, he can see Kṛṣṇa every moment. There is no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa is present. So even though you think that Kṛṣṇa is not present, but He is present by words, Bhagavad-gītā. He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa, the person, and Kṛṣṇa's words, Bhagavad-gītā, there is no difference. Advaya-jñāna, no duality. Everything is one, absolute. Kṛṣṇa is absolute, Kṛṣṇa's instruction is also absolute, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes absolute. Everything. That is Absolute Truth.
That is another thing. All-pervading we also accept. He is brahmajyoti. He is spread all over the creation. That is His nirākāra. Another meaning of nirākāra, that He hasn't got His form like us—sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1)—you may say that. Or nirākāra means where the varieties are not manifested. Just like you go to the sunshine. You don't find any rest. Your plane must fly on, fly on, fly on, unless you get a support in some planet. Either you go to the moon planet or remain in this planet, you must have a support. Otherwise the effulgence, the sun effulgence, the sunlight is not (indistinct). Similarly, brahmajyoti is like that, just like sunshine, but you cannot rest there. If you want rest, then you have to take shelter under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas: (SB 10.2.32) Those who are in the impersonal situation, they think themselves that they have become liberated. Exactly the same example. Suppose you are very high in the sunshine. Do you think, "Now I am liberated from worldly connection. I am far, far away, or high"? But unless you have shelter, you have to fly. This is crude example. Similarly, these impersonalists, they are in the liberated atmosphere, that's a fact. Brahman. He has realized that "I am not this matter. I am Brahman." And because he has no information in the brahmajyoti there are innumerable planets, he thinks that "This is all in all, this jyoti, brahmajyoti." That is his imperfect knowledge.
If we become husband of the prostitute, no, that is not possible. Then sad-ācāra will be finished. Nāmnā sad-ācāra. Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ: as soon as you become associated with prostitute, then everything will be lost. Sad-ācāra means your progress in spiritual life is lost. Therefore we are stressing so much on the four avoidances: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This is the way. If you are serious... But if you take it as a fashion, that is another thing. But if you take it seriously to progress, then these things will done. This is the basic principle of spiritual progress. Otherwise we shall learn, bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ, bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir... Aśuci, aśuci. Aśuci means unclean. Spiritual life means purification. So if you purify and again become unclean, that we have discussed hasti-snāna, the elephant. Elephant takes bath very nicely, and as soon as come on the shore, take some dust and throw on... Kuñjara śaucavat. Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "What is this cleaning?"
Father is already kind. But if you revolt against the father, then you suffer. Similarly, God is our father, God is our friend, naturally, and He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving...," not only for the human beings—all species of life, they are living entities. Then according to your karma, therefore different dresses. Just like we have got in this meeting different dresses. So (indistinct) human beings, the dress will be different. That is another thing. Similarly, the living entity is part and parcel of God, but someone has become human beings, some has become cats, someone has become tree, some as insects, some as demigods, some as (indistinct), some as the ant—varieties. Because they wanted to become like that, and God has given them the chance, "All right. You want to become like this and enjoy life? All right, you become like this." So this is arrangement that God is there, and He is everyone's father. He is everyone's friend. He is always ready. He's coming personally to canvas. He's so kind. Just hear, immediately.
Nowadays, sometimes one becomes a prostitute. That is very usual now. But in India still, nobody will marry a prostitute. Nobody. Still. In the Western country, never mind he's a prostitute, she's a prostitute, if she marries—Ph.D. certificate, that's all. So this is old custom. Once one girl becomes prostitute, she'll never be touched. Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. That is another thing. So these sixteen thousand girls were kidnapped by that Bhaumāsura. So without finding any way how to escaped from this asura's hand, they appealed to Kṛṣṇa that "You save us. This is our position." So Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. He came and released them and killed the Bhaumāsura and asked them, "Now you can go to your father's house." So they began to cry. Why? "Now our fathers will not accept us because we have been kidnapped." Just see. "We have been kidnapped. I have no right to go to the father. And we're not married also." "Then, what you want?" "You kindly marry us." "All right. Come on." (laughter) This is Kṛṣṇa.
Mālatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the animals are not subject to the laws of the state, that if they steal something, they are not punished. But in our country, even if a person has a mouse in his house, a little mouse, he sets some trap and he kills him for stealing food.
Prabhupāda: That is not punishment. That is to stop the disturbance. By law... There is no such law that "When there is a rat in your house, you should catch it and kill it." Law does not say. Is there any law like that?
Mālatī: No.
Prabhupāda: Then that is another thing.
Mālatī: But this country had it into the laws.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, but sometimes... That depends on the person. Sometimes... Those who are pious persons, they know that these rats, they are also hungry and they should be given some food. That is the vision of the pious person. And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that in your house you should see not only to the welfare of your children. Even there is a lizard, there is a rat, even there is a snake, you should see how he is also comfortably situated. That is spiritual communism. In Vṛndāvana still, a snake found in the house is never killed, snake. Still a rat is never killed.
So any highest principle of religion in any religion of the world you take, this is the summarization of all religions, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is accepted by Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam—sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God, how to learn to love God." That is first class, not the rituals, not the formulas. That is another thing. Just like when a man is diseased, the physicians prescribes so many, that "You don't do this. You do this. You take this medicine. You just..." That is according to the particular disease. But the real aim is to be cured from the disease. So any religion which teaches to be cured from the material disease of sense gratification and teaches love of Godhead, that is perfect religion.
There are many causes. One should be cautious, that's all. Therefore one should hear, one should be cautious, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will help. We should be cautious, but if something is done unwillingly, that is excused by Kṛṣṇa. That is another thing. We are offending in every moment, but when it is within our consciousness we should take some precaution that "This should not be done. If I have done, ask excuse." That's all. Finish.
Revatīnandana: Is that true, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Revatīnandana: That service to mankind is service God?
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.
Guest (3): Doctor. For doctor, I mean.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is another thing. When doctor gives service to man, he does not give service to the man; he gives service to the money. (laughter)
Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, hearing(?) from Haṁsadūta's question, sometimes we might experience that our Godbrothers have fallen away, and when they have fallen away they really fallen and lost their spirit and they fall away.
Prabhupāda: Best thing is that after this meeting you should stand together and fall down, "Prabhu, please excuse me."
Generally they take Sanskrit education, first grammar, and it is recommended that one should read at least for twelve years grammar. Actually this is the fact. Sanskrit grammar is very difficult, and unless one reads regularly for twelve years... But that is another thing. If one is well versed in grammar he can read all the Sanskrit literatures. That is another thing. But our aim is not that, to read Sanskrit literature. No. Our aim is how to mold the life to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Those who are contemplating to organize our, this gurukula, they should stress on this point as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tan manye adhītam uttamam: "He is first-class educated." Who? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). We want to teach that. There is no question of economic problem, that one has to become learned to get some service in some big school or college and get some big salary. This is not our aim. Our only aim is how to mold the life of the children to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So this is the summary given by Caitanya..., Prahlāda Mahārāja. We should follow this instruction.
We are trying our best to become a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So to become a perfect devotee means he must be sinless. If one is sinful he cannot become perfect devotee. So according to śāstra, this animal-killing is sinful. Striya-sūnā-pāna-dyūtā yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā (SB 1.17.38). These four kinds of sinful activities, namely illicit sex, striya... That is also... In our Vedic culture this is common morality. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita even says that mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Anyone, any other woman, the wife of other gentleman, she should be considered as mother. This is civilization. So what to speak of illicit sex? But people are degrading. That is another thing. But this is our standard of civilization. Even a great politician, he says who is paṇḍita? Who is learned?
Dr. Frog, that the story of Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog is trying to understand Atlantic Ocean comparing with his three-feet well, that's all. When he is informed that there is Atlantic Ocean, he's simply comparing with his limited space. It may be four feet, or it may be five feet, it may be ten feet, because he is within the three feet. His friend informed, "Oh, I have seen a reservoir of water, vast water." So that vastness, he is just conjecturing, "How much the vastness may be? My well is three feet, it may be four feet, five feet," now he is going on. But he may go on millions of millions of feet it is still it is greater. That is another thing. Therefore, atheistic persons, demons, they think in their own way that God, Kṛṣṇa may be like this, Kṛṣṇa may be like this, Kṛṣṇa may be like this. Generally they think that Kṛṣṇa are I. How they say? Kṛṣṇa is not great. They do not believe that God is great. He thinks that God is as good as I am, I am also God. This is demonic.
Abhaya, abhaya means it doesn't vanquish. There is no expenditure, it is increasing. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam (CC Antya 20.12). These transcendental activities, transcendental bliss increases, ānanda ambudhi. Ambudhi means ocean. We have seen ocean, but it does not increase, although it is a very big, vast mass of water. Still when you go to the beach for hundreds year(?), it does not increase. Ānandāmbudhi, the material world, not vardhanam, it is fixed up. When we walk on the beach we are confident that although the Pacific Ocean is a great vast mass of water, but we are certain it cannot come up to this. It is limited by the order of God, "You cannot go beyond this." So there is no vardhanam. The temporary ebb tide, and flow tide, that is another thing, but actually aputra māna acala pratiṣṭhā, but in the spiritual world the ocean of transcendental bliss increases. Therefore it is said that ānandāmbudhi vardhanam.
Dharma means the order that is given by God. That is dharma. And anything, so-called dharma, that is not dharma. That you manufacture, so many things. That is another thing. But real dharma, the... Just like I have several times explained, law means given by the government. You cannot manufacture law. That is not law. Similarly, dharma means the order given by God. That is dharma. Just like Kṛṣṇa says. He said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham: (BG 4.7) "When there is discrepancies, misuse of dharma, I appear." So He has appeared. He therefore said that "This is not dharma." You are declaring, "This is Hindu dharma," "This is Muslim dharma," "This is Jain dharma," "This is Christian dharma," "This is family dharma," "This is country dharma," so on, so on, so on. You have created so many dharmas. But Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these dharmas." "Then what I..., shall I accept?" Mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is dharma. Otherwise there is no dharma.
Master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. The master can expand Himself as masters. That is another thing. The master is one. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Ananta-rūpam. The master can expand Himself in many, many thousands and millions of forms, but they are advaita. They are not different. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He married 16,108 wives, so He expanded Himself also into 16,108 forms, Kṛṣṇa. But those expansions, 16,000 expansions, they are one, the same Kṛṣṇa. This is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa may expand Himself in so many forms, but still they are the same. In another place it is exemplified, dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya (Bs. 5.46). Just like one candle original, and a second candle, a third candle, a fourth candle... You light up many millions of candles, but they are of the same potency. The candle power is not reduced because we have ignited so many candles from the original. No. Advaitam, acyut... Pūrṇasya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. Even though Kṛṣṇa expands Himself in millions and millions and forms, still, all of them are the..., of the same potency. That is called sattva-dhāmnaḥ. So there are different types of expansion of Kṛṣṇa. They are called vibhinnāṁśa, svāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa expands Himself svāṁśa. That is Viṣṇu-tattva. That is advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam (Bs. 5.33). Then vibhinnāṁśa: mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhutaḥ (BG 15.7). Jīva also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa, but we are vibhinnāṁśa, separated forms. And svāṁśa, Viṣṇu-tattva, that is one. So in this way we have to understand Kṛṣṇa's expansion.
We should not jump over. There are so many literatures. They place Rādhārāṇī as ordinary baladar(?) woman because they do not understand. So therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī has forbidden strictly that avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "Don't hear from the professional men who are not situated in the Vaiṣṇava behavior." One must be..., behavior in Vaiṣṇava. Sadācāra-sampannaḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has warned that "Don't mix it with Vaiṣṇava who is not well trained up, well behaved." You can offer him respect. A Vaiṣṇava offers respect even to the ant. That is another thing. But he has warned, "Don't mix with them, these professional, so-called Vaiṣṇava, sahajiyās." This is warned. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam: "You should not hear." "Eh? Huh? What is the wrong there? The Kṛṣṇa-kathā is there." No, Kṛṣṇa-kathā is there just like milk is there, but if it is touched by the lips of a serpent, it is no more to be taken. It has become poison. Unless one is situated as pure Vaiṣṇava in his dealing, in his behavior, inside and outside, he should not become a preacher because it will not be effective, neither one should hear from such person.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Actually what I am, tattvataḥ, in truth, that can be understood through devotion. Through love of Kṛṣṇa, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). Everything is there, clear. If you are not bhakta, if you are philosopher, that's all right, remain philosopher, why you try to touch Kṛṣṇa? That is not your subject matter. Don't poke your nose in that subject matter. Don't mislead others, nonsense. You go to hell. That is another thing. But why you are pushing others to the hell? That is our protest. That is our protest. You go to hell. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19), Kṛṣṇa says. Because they are krūrān, they are envious of Kṛṣṇa. They know, Kṛṣṇa is describing Himself like this, still he says Kṛṣṇa is unknown. This is cruel, hiṁsā. So in this way, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. We must understand Kṛṣṇa by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). The, Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood by these blunt senses. It is not possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one becomes purified after being freed from all kinds of designations, that is the beginning.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Praṇipātena. First of all surrender. You don't surrender to a foolish man, but you have to surrender. Now it is your business to find out where to surrender. But you have to surrender. This is the process. Without surrender, you cannot understand the truth as it is. That is the instruction of Vedas everywhere. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: (SB 11.3.21) "One has to surrender to guru." Why? Jijñāsu: "If you are inquisitive to know the Absolute Truth." And if you want to know something which is flickering, relative truth, that is another thing. But if you want to know the Absolute Truth, śreyaḥ uttamam... Absolute Truth means ultimate benefit, śreya. Ultimate... Yes, exactly the word, benefit. If you want ultimate benefit, then guruṁ prapadyeta. Who is guru? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam: one who is expert in understanding the Vedic literature, śābde pare ca, especially transcendental.
Everything is there, and we are trying to present them in our so many books. Unfortunately we are not interested. That is another thing. Anyway, so a guru is necessary for him, not for some asirbhat, for curing some material disease or getting some gold. No. He has no necessity for guru. Guru is necessary for that person who is inquisitive about understanding Brahman. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā.
Just like they are going moon excursion, Mars excursion. "Stay there." They cannot stay. Because, actually, whether they are going or not—that's another thing—but there is no staying place. Simply rotating in the sky is not very pleasant thing. We have got experience in the airplane. If we go five or six hours in the planes, we become suffocated. So it is not possible. Therefore those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they again fall down, because they have no engagement in Kṛṣṇa's business. They never cultivated such knowledge. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the Māyāvādīs, they think, "What is this nonsense, serving Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is māyā. We are not going to serve māyā. We are going to become one with God, with effulgence." That oneness, you can stay within sunshine and be burnt up, but you cannot stay there. After your whims are fulfilled or you become disgusted... But because you have no information of serving Kṛṣṇa, then come down again to this material world and serve māyā—so-called hospitals and other things, philanthropic work. Because they have no information to serve Kṛṣṇa, the result is āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). The Brahman is also paraṁ padam. It is not material; it is spiritual world. But because they have no shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they fall down again at the shelter of the māyā.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Just like while passing through the city, we saw very nice buildings. So to construct such buildings, it requires merit, undoubtedly. But what for this building? Duṣkṛtina, only for committing sinful life. Therefore it is called du, duṣkalya. Meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, and gambling. Meritorious, they are undoubtedly for constructing this building, but what is the purpose? The purpose is sinful activities. These things are going on. Therefore, they are called duṣkṛtina. And mūḍha. Mūḍha means they cannot understand what is God. It is very simple thing. Anyone can..., a child can understand. Take for example your body, my body. What is the important thing in the body? The soul. Without the soul, you may be very big man, even Napoleon Bonaparte, but as soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. The whole world is useless. Anyone can understand. Where is now Napoleon Bonaparte who struggled so much for glorifying France. But where is that gentleman? Finished. As soon as the soul is gone... You may keep one statue, dead statue, that is another thing. But you do not know where the soul has gone and what he is doing now.
So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has also said, chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā. Our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for nistāra. Nistāra means to be liberated from the capture of māyā. That is called nistāra, release, release from the capture of māyā. So Vaiṣṇava... Chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava-sevā, nistāra pāyeche kebā. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, another Vaiṣṇava... As it sung by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, similarly, you know that Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, he also has sung many song, approved songs. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's songs are Vedic evidence. All Vaiṣṇavas, songs are like that, Vedic evidence. There is no mistake, cheating, imperfectness or illusion. Conditioned soul, they are manufacturing by mental concoction. That is another thing. They are full of imperfection, illusion, mistake and cheating. But when we hear songs by the Vaiṣṇava, that is for liberation.
I came to America with forty rupees with me, and now I possess forty crores. So there is no magic. (quietly to one devotee:) (aside:) You can go back side. You are sleeping. So this is the secret, that if you want to become guru honestly... If you want to cheat, that is another thing. There are so many cheaters. People also want to be cheated. As soon as we say that "If you want to become my disciple, you will have to give up four things: no illicit sex, no intoxication up to drinking tea and smoking cigarette, no meat-eating and no gambling," and they criticize me, "Swamijī is very conservative." And if I say that "You can do all nonsense, whatever you like. You simply take this mantra and give me $125," they will like. Because in America, $125 is nothing. Any man can pay immediately. So I would have collected millions of dollars if I would have cheated like that. But I do not want that. I want one student who follows my instruction. I don't want millions. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tara-sahasrasaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for illumination. There is no need of millions of stars. So my position is that I want to see that at least one disciple has become pure devotee. Of course, I have got many sincere and pure devotees. That is my good luck. But I would have been satisfied if I could find out one only. There is no need of so-called millions of stars.
Initiation Lectures
Just like I told you about Bhadrasena. He was challenging Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was defeated. And when Kṛṣṇa became defeated, He had to take on His shoulder His friend. So this is another thing. And to be satisfied with little power and little influence within this material world, that is nothing. That is worthless. As soon as this body is finished, everything is finished. It has no value. Just... Yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. You just try to achieve something, will achieving, you will no more want anything. So all these yogis, all these karmīs, all these jñānīs, they are not peaceful because they are wanting something, wanting something. So long you will be wanting something, there cannot be any more peace. Mind that. When there will be no more demand, that is peace. And that is only for Kṛṣṇa bhakta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma (CC Madhya 19.149), because he has no demand. Ataeva śānta: "Therefore he is peaceful." All others, they have got some demand. So this is the process. By making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means your demands will be nil. That's all. When you find in that position, that "I have no more any demand," svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi, "I am fully satisfied, Kṛṣṇa," then that is your perfection. So try to achieve that position.
The example is the same, just like the conchshell. In the Vedic injunction is that you should not touch dead animal's bone. If you touch, you become impure. But Vedas say the conchshell is pure. So that is being practically observed. We followers of Vedic injunction, we are using conchshell in the Deity room because Vedas says it is pure. You cannot argue, "Oh, one place you said that conch..., the bone is impure. Oh, here I can show you the book. You have said like that." Oh, that nonsense will not do. Whatever is said is all right. You have to accept that. Even it is contradictory, you have to accept. That is called no interpretation. That is wanted. There is meaning, but through your brain at the present moment you cannot understand. That is another thing. But you cannot say like that: "Oh, one place you have said this conch, yes, bone of an animal is impure, and now you are saying the conchshell is pure. It is contradictory." So that will not do. Therefore it is said you cannot interpret in that way. That is offense. Then you will not be able to make progress. Yes.
So just like here also, the father is diseased, the son gets the body diseased, infects. If the father is healthy, the son is also healthy, child is also healthy. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha, if Kṛṣṇa is the original father, then we are also sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). But at the present moment, what is our condition? Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Now because we have got this material body, we have come in contact of this external energy, material energy, we have got this material body; therefore we are engaged in struggle for existence with mind and the material senses. That is our position. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi-prakṛti-sthāni. Prakṛti-sthāni means material. Karṣati, hard struggle. So this is our position. And if you want to get out of it... If you are foolish, that "Whatever it is, that's... Let it... Let us enjoy now. Don't talk talk of all these...," oh, that is another thing. But those who are sensible, those who are actually after knowledge, those who actually want a solution of this material miserable condition of life, they must take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only remedy. Kṛṣṇa nāma kara āra saba miche (?). Simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All other things are simply illusion, false. Palaibe phat yei jo mache piche (?). You cannot escape. The death is awaiting always. You are given a chance. If you don't take, properly utilize use this chance, then another death is coming, and you are awaiting another type of body according to your karma.
General Lectures
God said, "Let there be creation." So there was creation. Simple thing. Where is the question of interpretation? What can be the interpretation here? Suggest that this can be interpretation. Am I right? In the beginning of the Bible it is said like that? "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation. So what is your interpretation? Tell me what is your interpretation. Is there any possibility of interpretation? Can any one of you suggest? Then where is the opportunity of interpretation? One can explain. That is different thing, but the fact that God created, that will remain. That you cannot change. Now, how that creative process took place, that is explained in Bhāgavatam: First of all, there was sky, then there was sound, then there was this, that. This is the process of creation, that is another thing. But the fact, the primary fact that God created, that will remain at any circumstances. Not the rascal scientist says, "Oh, there was a chunk and it is split up, and there was these planets. Perhaps this and likely this," all this nonsense. They'll simply interpret, "likely," "perhaps." That is not science—"likely," "perhaps." Why perhaps? Here is clear statement, "God created." That's all. Finish.
"Does ISKCON believe in reincarnation?" Well, this, there is no question of belief. It is a fact. I have already explained that the child, a small child, is reincarnating from one body to another, one body to another, one body to another. So similarly, the final change is called reincarnation. So there is no question of believe. It is a fact. Only the blind man, he cannot see it. Believe means it may be fact or not fact—I blindly believe. That is another thing. Here is a science. "One plus one equal to two." Just like that. This body changes, this body changes, this body changes, and the living entity's there, everywhere. Therefore every moment the reincarnation is going on, every second. What is the question of believe? It is a fact.
Pure means materially pure. But yoga practice means go to the spiritual platform. Just like in the material qualities, some men are very good men—the quality of goodness—and some men are in passion. That is the rajo-guṇa. And some men are in darkness. So there are three qualities in the material world: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. So those who are situated in the modes of goodness, they are called perfect in the material world, very good men. That "very good man" does not mean that he is spiritually advanced. He may be moralist. He may be philanthropist, just like so many leaders of nations. That is another thing. The spiritual state is called viśuddha-sattva. Viśuddha-sattva means goodness where no other quality can contaminate. Here even one man is very good man, sometimes he is tinged with passion or ignorance. Just like I told you that Mahātmā Gandhi, he was a recognized good man, but he committed so many mistakes. So pure goodness is not possible in this material world. Pure goodness means spiritual life. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). So because the spirit soul by nature is pure, by nature... As God is pure, similarly, we are part and parcel of God. We are also pure in our original position. But since we have come in contact with this material nature, our inferiority in different qualities or different degrees are present. So for spiritual advancement, one has to come first to the platform of goodness, then pure goodness.
So these are plain truths. Kurukṣetra... Still there is a place of the name Kurukṣetra near Delhi. And people interpret, " 'Kurukṣetra' means this body." We do not know wherefrom he gets this meaning, what is that dictionary. Now, how he can establish? Kurukṣetra is still existing, and it is called dharma-kṣetra; it is a place of religious pilgrimage. So everything is clear. There is no need of interpretation. Simply you have to take the teachings. Then you will be benefited. So in this Bhagavad-gītā you will find so many nice information that if you see... If you don't see, that is another thing. You have to see that "Why I am put into so many miserable conditions of life although I do not want it?" That should be your question. If this question does not arise in your mind, that means still you are in the animal state of life. That is the human stage of life, when one inquires that "I do not wish to suffer. I do not want this suffering, but I am put into this suffering. Why?" This "why," for this "why," there is Upaniṣad which is called Kena Upaniṣad. So this "why" question must be there in the developed stage of human consciousness. And when that "why" question comes, there is an answer. There is answer in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and all Vedic literatures.
Woman (4): It is motivation. It is just like policeman. He feels...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to make others know that he is a policeman. But his business does not depend on that dress. Similarly, our this dress may be advertisement to others that "We belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness group." That is another thing. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not depend on dress. Ahaituky apratihatā. Without any reason and without any impediment. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be executed without any material condition. There is no material condition for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (aside:) Why you are late? (chuckles)
Devotee: Somebody gave him the wrong address.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. It is better late than never. (laughter)
Woman (5): It sounds like whenever you have a conflict, problem...
Prabhupāda: Not whenever. You have got always a problem. It is not... Because we have got this material body, we are simply meeting problems. That's all. You're simply thinking that "This is good problem, and this is bad problem." But on account of possessing this material body, beginning from this body, just like a pealike form within the womb of mother, till death, it is simply problem. If you do not understand it, then it is our less intelligence. That is called sleeping.
So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating with this movement. It is very important movement to bring man to his original consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to bring a living entity to his original consciousness. Just like there are many mental hospitals. What is that? Bellevue? In your city? The purpose of the hospital is to bring a crazy fellow to his original consciousness. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring all crazy men to his original consciousness. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is to be understood—more or less crazy. There was a case in India, a murder case, and the murderer pleaded that he became mad. He was mad; therefore he, he did not know what did he do. So in order to test him, whether actually he, at that time, was lunatic or turned mad, the expert civil servant, psychiatrist, was brought to examine him. So the doctor gave his opinion that "So far I have studied cases, all patients I've come in contact, they are more or less all crazy. So in that sense, if your lordship wants to excuse him, that is another thing." So that is the fact. In a nice Bengali poetry, one great Vaiṣṇava poet has written,
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya
Piśācī, ghost, when a man becomes ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is under the influence of this material nature, he is ghostly haunted, and whatever he speaks, he speaks nonsense. Never mind he is a great philosopher, great scientist, but because he is ghostly haunted by māyā, so whatever he's theorizing, whatever he's speaking, that is, more or less, nonsense.
Prabhupāda: No, that example is given. Just like this garment I am using. So when it becomes too old torn or something, so I will throw it away. I take another. What is the difficulty? When this body I am growing or changing, whatever the Christians say, but when it is no more workable, I give it up. I take another. What is the difficulty?
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: The materialistic man will think, "Well, I am voluntarily giving up my clothing, but I'm involuntarily giving up my body."
Prabhupāda: Voluntarily, involuntarily, that is another thing. Just like a child does not know that his coat is useless, but mother comes and changes the garment. So it is changing, that's a fact. It doesn't matter whether you are changing voluntarily or involuntarily, that is not very important thing. You are changing, that's a fact. Yes?
Our sufferings are due to our sinful activities. We cannot surpass the vigilance of material nature by committing or by executing sinful life. That is not possible. Therefore in our movement we ask everybody, especially our serious students, to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex life, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. These are the pillars of sinful life. If you think that you are enjoying life by indulging in these four kinds of sense gratification, that means you are implicating yourself. The chance of human body which you have got now to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you misuse it and indulge in sinful life, then next life is waiting as cats and dogs. That is nature's law. But if we forget the nature's law, if you simply become puffed-up by false education, that is another thing. You can do that. But real fact is this: vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).
Unless the origin of creation is conscious, how things are so happening so rightly and nicely? How all the planets are rotating in their orbit, there is no collision, there is no fall down? So there is a great plan. Therefore the creator must be conscious, a person. That is the verdict of Vyāsadeva. And anyone who is also conscious and intelligent can understand. He says, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād. Anvayād: directly and indirectly. Directly He's conscious of the creation, and indirectly, as we are, we are also conscious because we are parts and parcels of the Supreme. Another explanation is that my birth has taken place from my father. My father's birth has taken place from his father. In this way you go on researching—his father, his father, his father. So everyone is a conscious personality. So why the original source of everything should not be conscious personality? This is another thing. Conscious and person. Just like my father is conscious and person, his father is conscious and person. In this way you go on researching according to our Vedic knowledge, you come to Brahma. Brahma is considered to be the original creature within the universe, ādi-kavi. So now this Brahma is also born of the navel lotus of Viṣṇu; the Viṣṇu, He must be conscious. The Viṣṇu is conscious, abhijñaḥ. So the origin of creation cannot be unconscious. Origin of creation must be conscious. That is the version of the Vedas, Vedic literature. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), this is the Vedānta-sūtra verse. He must be conscious.
Just like you're all sitting here. Every one of you are servant. If you consider that you are master, that is a mistake. That is māyā. Every one of you are servant. So "I am serving, but now I am serving māyā. I'm not happy. Let me serve You." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. So if it means that, there is no objection. It is a question of language. It does mean (indistinct). Of course, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the, the person whose name we chant, holy name, in each, in each holy Allah, or something like that, that is not objected if it is actually meaning the Supreme. If it is meaning something else, that is another thing. This question... Just like water or jala. It (is) the same thing. It is simply a different name. If I ask water, you'll give me the water actually, and if I say, jala, you'll give me the same. So if the meaning is all right, then there is no objection. If the meaning is different, then there is objection. We are not fighting with the language. We are not concerned with the language.
If you think this is a movement, sentimental move... It is not sentimental movement. It is a most scientific movement. Any scientist come to me. I can convince him that it is a scientific movement. I asked similarly to Professor Kotovsky in Moscow that "My dear Professor, what is the difference between your movement, communist movement, and my movement? You, you have selected Lenin as God. I have selected Kṛṣṇa as God. Where is the difference of principle? You cannot live without a leader or God. I cannot live without a leader or God. That's a fact. Then where is the difference? Now it is to be judged whether Lenin is good or Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But your position is that you have to accept one leader, either Lenin or Jawaharlal Nehru or Hitler or this or Lord (?) Churchill. You have to accept. You cannot work independently. Therefore you have got so many parties. So here is also one party, Kṛṣṇa party. So where is the difference in philosophy? There is no difference in philosophy. Now let us study whether Kṛṣṇa party is good or Lenin party is good. Then whole solution is there."
Therefore in the śāstra it is said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1): "The Supreme Controller is Kṛṣṇa." You are not supreme controller. Controller means god. So you can become a god, but you are not Supreme God. Therefore we use the word Godhead. Our magazine name is Back to Godhead. Not to "God." God, there are so many. Even the rascal, he is also god. That is another thing. But Godhead, that is explained in the Vedic literature, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. This is explanation. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. And how is He? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He has got His form. God is not formless. Vigraha. Vigraha means form. But what kind of form? Sat-cid-ānanda. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda means full of bliss. You find that form, Kṛṣṇa's picture, always blissful, ānanda. You'll see here is Kṛṣṇa's picture. Here He's enjoying with his pleasure potency, Rādhārāṇī. That is His own potency. When Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is Parabrahman, described, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). When Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he said..., he addressed Kṛṣṇa not as Kṛṣṇa. Before that he was addressing Kṛṣṇa, because he is friend. Now when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he understood Kṛṣṇa also. He addressed Him, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are perfect." So if Kṛṣṇa is even naughty actually, He's Parabrahman.
Woman: What it says in my Bible?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are saying that God created human being after His image. Is it not?
Woman: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then God, His image is like human being.
Woman: Not according to way, way back because...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but... (laughter) God has got His two hands and two legs, one head, like human being, but that hands and legs and head may not be exactly like us. But He has got the image.
Woman: I have never seen Him. I do not know.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are speaking? You do not know. Don't talk. (laughter) Then you learn. If you do not know, then you learn who knows. Don't talk.
Woman: I'll listen to you.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect of the modern civilization. One does not know, and he wants to teach. (laughter)
Woman: I want to teach only to understand.
Just like your coat has got hand, but that hand is not real hand—the real hand is within the coat—similarly, we have got also hands and legs, but that is within this material body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yau... (BG 2.13). Within this body. We should not be concerned with your coat and shirt. We should be concerned with you. Similarly, we are now materially dressed. We should not be concerned with the dress. We should be concerned what is there within the dress. That is knowledge. That is knowledge. So it is a science, and the science is very nicely described in all scriptures, especially Bhagavad-gītā. So as a human being, we have got this privilege, to understand, to go to the right person to take the meaning. Meaning is very clear, but we create some mismeaning. That is another thing. Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." It is very clear and simple thing, but we make some interpretation, "This, that, this." Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Don't make the meaning perverted. Take it as it is. Then you become perfect. "Thou shalt not kill"—if you take this as it is, then you become perfect. But if you add your own meaning and go on killing and still you become a Christian, that is your business.
In the beginning of Vedānta it is said that the Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is beginning. Now the human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth, jijñāsā. One should inquire what is the Absolute. That is human life, to find out the Absolute Truth. So the next sūtra immediately says that Absolute Truth is that who is the source of everything. And what is that everything? Two things we find: animate and inanimate. Practical experience. Some of them are animate and some of them are inanimate. Two things. Now we can expand the varieties. That is another thing. But two things are there. So these two things, we see there is a controller above these two things, the animate and inanimate. So we have to inquire now whether the source of two things, animate and inanimate, what is the position? The position is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The original source of everything is abhijñaḥ. How? Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu. If I have created something, I know everything, all details, anvayād, directly or indirectly, I know. If I manufacture something... Suppose if I know some special cooking, then I know all the details how to do it. That is the origin. So that origin is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: (BG 7.26) "I know everything—past, present and future." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2).
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: Particles of lava dust gathered in the snow and in the air...
Prabhupāda: That is not pure snow. That is another thing. Pure snow is white. Just like water. Water, by nature, it is crystal. But when it comes in touch with the earth, it becomes muddy. So that muddiness is due to contact with something external. Snow is white by nature, but in contact with something else it looks red. But the truth that snow is white, that is truth. Not that snow becoming red... You are making, or by some other contact it is looking like that. But snow is white, that's a truth.
Prabhupāda: This is (indistinct) mean to accept God. Does he mean like that?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, but he means it as the opposite of sensuous form but as something intangible, something you can only relate to...
Prabhupāda: No. Intangible it may be at the present moment, that is another thing. But religion means understanding of God. Otherwise there is no religion. What do you mean by religion? First of all, you must define.
Śyāmasundara: What he means by religion is that the objects of our religious consciousness are mere representations in your consciousness, nothing more, but they are not tangible, like...
Prabhupāda: So then he has got no clear definition of religion. We define religion, is to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. God says, "You do this." When you do it, that is religion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that no state is subordinate to any other state.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. If you all, my disciples, you are working under my instruction, so there is cooperation but not that other's order is obligatory to me. Similarly, one state is representative of God, another (is) representative of God, so they are not independent, dependent. That can be applied any field. Citizen, everyone is independent but everyone is dependent on the state laws. Similarly every state may be independent in their individual capacity, but he is dependent on God's order. That is the position. That is the perfection.
Prabhupāda: That means, according to his philosophy, people should always engage themselves in war, because they will be progressing?
Śyāmasundara: He says that it makes for progress to be in conflict. Competition, conflict, this creates progress.
Prabhupāda: Competition, that is another thing. But if you say that war settles up morality, ethical law, then... Without any aim. We say yes, war may be there or must be there, but the party who has got Kṛṣṇa's support, they are victorious, they are right party. This is our philosophy. We don't say that war should be stopped, war must be there, because this world is material world, there must be war, opposite elements. Now, the party who has got Kṛṣṇa's support, that party... That is the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. We don't say stop war, but we say if you fight, fight on behalf of Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: He says that God is the sum total of all concrete phenomenon.
Prabhupāda: That's all right but that means he has no clear knowledge. That's all. So therefore we can say they are rascals. And one who does not know God, he is rascal. Following, that is our philosophy(?). But because knowledge means to understand God. The animals, they do not understand God. Therefore they are called animal. Similarly, any man, any so-called (indistinct) does not know God, he is animal. He may be nicely dressed, that is another thing, but factually he is an animal, because he does not know God. That is the position of animals. What is the difference between man and animal? That is the difference, the animal cannot know what is God, the man can know. That is fundamental. It may be... There are difference of animals but no animal is able to understand God. And here the difficulty is that one is in the animal's position, he does not know God but he takes the position of teacher. That is the difficulty of this modern civilization. The person in position of animal is trying to teach others. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānaḥ as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "The blind man is trying to lead other blind men." That is the defect of the modern civilization. We, our Vedic civilization, not our (indistinct) everyone, we accept a teacher, Vyāsadeva, Kṛṣṇa. They must be beyond the, beyond suspicion.
Śyāmasundara: No, but he was able to conceptualize that the speed of light squared times the mass equals the energy of an object. And then he was able to experiment in the laboratory and actually find out that it was true. But no one told him that formula. He found it out through process of idealizing, ideas.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is, he is studying science. He is a scientist. You cannot say but he's scientist. He, just like the same you are seeing the mountain from a distance, you are seer. Now the more you make progress you see it is green, then more progress, "Oh, it is (indistinct)." The seer, because he is scientist, he is searching so he is making progress but all of a sudden a layman cannot see like that.
Śyāmasundara: Like the square root of minus one. There is no substantial reference for that idea but there is an equation: the square root of minus one.
Prabhupāda: The ultimate understanding, if we have accept this formula janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), so everything is emanating from the substance, so without having a place of that idea in the substance, you cannot have... That is another thing (indistinct). Because you are also a product of that something. So whatever you are thinking, that must be there, in the original.
Prabhupāda: If they died out, that means there is no more existence of that animal. But how can you say that the animal is existing somewhere else? Now, according to his statement that from a certain basic principle, by gradual evolution, the human body is coming. Now his theory is that the human body is coming from the monkey.
Śyāmasundara: They are related; they come from the same...
Prabhupāda: Related? Everything is related. That is another thing. But if the monkey's body is developing into human body...
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Apelike man.
Prabhupāda: Then after development of human body, why is the monkey species does not cease? Why not it does not cease?
Śyāmasundara: They are like branches of the same tree, he calls them.
Prabhupāda: Branches of the tree, just like we see now the monkey is existing and human being is also existing. Similarly, we say what he sees the beginning of life, at that time also there was human being.
Prabhupāda: But we don't see that. Because at the present moment we see that all the species are there existing, including human beings.
Śyāmasundara: But he says they evolved. That's because they evolved.
Prabhupāda: Evolved, but they are still existing. Evolved, that is another thing. But all of them are existing still. So how you can say that millions of years they did not exist, all? His theory is that...
Śyāmasundara: Because there is not evidence that they exist.
Prabhupāda: Evidence, this is the evidence: if now all the species of life are existing, why not millions of years ago? What do you say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. It was existing, but simply we did not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is one-sided test.
Prabhupāda: Why example? Why you give a fictitious example which you have no experience?
Śyāmasundara: All right. So let's say no one has ever seen a...
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. You cannot say which you have never seen, at least. Because yours is experimental, I may say, but you at least, cannot say like that.
Śyāmasundara: I have excavated in all parts of the world, and every time I go to the...
Prabhupāda: No. You have not excavated all parts of the world. That is another nonsense. You have not done this.
Prabhupāda: Greatest good for the greatest number of people. So that means even if the people are fools and rascals. Does it mean so? Now some of the fools and rascals, they, just like at the present moment, they'll want, "Give us LSD." Then LSD is first-class thing? Is that philosophy?
Śyāmasundara: Well, according to some...
Prabhupāda: Well, "according to," that's another thing. We are discussing whether this is philosophy or nonsense. That is our question. The greatest number at the present moment in your country, they'll say, "LSD is very nice. We like it." So does it mean government will allow, "Yes, the greatest number of people are wanting it. It must be..."
Prabhupāda: That is not for mass of men, not for the greatest number of men. That is the minimum. That philosophy is understood by minimum number.
Śyāmasundara: But he says that this standard should be applied to all men, that all men should be trained to find pleasure in this standard.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That means quality pleasure should be introduced to the... What, at the beginning you said maximum pleasure?
Śyāmasundara: Maximum number. He wants to find out something that will give them maximum pleasure. The purpose of government, politics, social and ethical life is to provide the greatest pleasure for the greatest number. Now to...
Prabhupāda: Greatest pleasure to the greatest number.
Prabhupāda: Then everyone should be philosopher. He has got his own philosophy. Everyone has got his own philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that in this way by everyone being free to compete, the best ones will come out.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is not freedom; that is competition.
Śyāmasundara: Competition. But in order to compete, there has to be freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing. But nobody is independent. That is our point of view. Everyone is dependent. Somebody is voluntarily dependent on Kṛṣṇa and somebody is by force dependent on māyā. That's all. But he must be dependent.
Śyāmasundara: These utilitarians said that activity should be to achieve all that is desired by the people, but Dewey says that activity should be to achieve what is worthy to be desired.
Prabhupāda: No, no. First thing is, people are desiring happiness. Whatever one may desire, the ultimate end is happiness. Nobody can deny this. But a diseased fellow, if he thinks that "I am happy," that is false happiness. A diseased man cannot be happy unless the disease is cured. Sometimes we go to a diseased person and ask, "How are you?" "Yes, I am all right." If he is all right, why is he lying down? He is not all right. He is artificially saying that "I am all right." What is this "all right"? Similarly, these foolish people, they are thinking, "I am happy." What is their happiness? If you have to die, then where is your happiness? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. A real intelligent person will see that these are the things which are giving me distress: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is the happiness? Foolishly if we accept something as happiness, that is not happiness. Real happiness is when you are free from these four principles of distress: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Otherwise, where is your happiness? But if you think that "Although I am dying, I am happy," that is another thing, a fool's paradise.
Prabhupāda: You are going to be again (indistinct). Why you forget Kṛṣṇa? After this life, you will be put in another womb of mother, so that the same thing will again happen. You are not finishing your business, so therefore it is the duty of guru and father and mother to save him from that situation again. Pitā na sa syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. So that is the opportunity of this human life. They should know that I had such-and-such bad experience. (indistinct), I will also experience the same thing again at the time of death, horrible situation. Again after, again enter, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You have to again take birth in the womb. The same situation is repeating. You may forget. That is another thing. Just like you had some surgical operation in your body. That was very painful. So even if you have forgotten, that does not guarantee that there will be no more (indistinct) and no more surgical operation. That is not (indistinct). It will be put again. What is the use of forgetting? Even if you do forget, what is the benefit of thereof?
Śyāmasundara: He says there is no benefit of forgetting, but it is a natural tendency.
Prabhupāda: That is natural, and everyone knows that's not a very (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Man cannot do without education. Without education a man remains an animal. Therefore in the human society there is a school, college, an institution, teacher—not in the animal society. So the principle is, the man is meant for being learned or being educated. That you cannot deny, that man life should not be like cats and dogs, simply eating, sleeping, mating, and dying. That is not man's life. Man's life is to become advanced in knowledge and education. And as I have already described, the ultimate knowledge: to understand God. If he is so-called educated, without any understanding of God, then his education is imperfect. You can deny the existence of God, but the God conception is there in the human society. Some may accept it, some may not accept it—that is another thing—but the conception of God, the whole civilized world, they have got some type of religion. Either you become Christian or Buddhist or Hindu or Muslim, religion means there is some cultivation of knowledge to understand God. And to understand God is the ultimate knowledge. That is called Vedānta. Veda means knowledge, and the ultimate knowledge: Vedānta. So ultimate knowledge, it, what is that? That is the beginning of Vedānta education. What is that ultimate knowledge? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta begins with this word, "Now this human form of life is to acquire the ultimate knowledge." Athāto brahma. Brahma means the ultimate. So, the absolute. Now it is the time to understand. So far understanding of sex, the dog also knows. You don't require to give him any education. So nobody is given education... Now of course they have adopted, but there is a Bengali proverb, "How to cry and how to enjoy sex, it doesn't require any education." When you are aggrieved, you cry automatically. When there is a sex impulse, you enjoy it automatically. It doesn't require any Mr. Freud. Without the help of any educator, everyone knows-cats, dogs, animals, human being—everyone knows how to enjoy sex life. It doesn't require any education.
Prabhupāda: Then when he grows he deteriorates. If he has attained perfection, how does he deteriorates?
Nara-nārāyaṇa: The Christian idea. The Christian idea is that the (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Whatever idea it may be, he could say it is perfect, then how it deteriorates?
Śyāmasundara: Well, it's just a symbol of someone who has achieved perfection, that they are childlike, that they are happy and jolly, innocent.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But the child is not perfection.
Śyāmasundara: No. It's only a symbol.
Revatīnandana: (indistinct) The child symbolizes faith and...
Śyāmasundara: Love and...
Revatīnandana: ...natural devotion. Like Jesus said, "Unless you come to me as little children, you can't enter into the kingdom of God."
Prabhupāda: That's (indistinct).
Hayagrīva: He writes, "The theologians are different from the philosophers in this respect at any rate. At least they are sure that God exists, even though they make contradictory statements about Him. God's existence does not depend on our proofs. I understood that God was, for me at least, one of the most certain and immediate of experiences."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is transcendental conviction, and it is very easy to understand that God is there. I do not know God, that is another thing. I will have to learn it. But God is there. There is no doubt about it. Any sane man can understand. You cannot say there is no God, because you are under control. So who is that controller? The supreme controller is God. This is sane man's conclusion. Now, I do not know who is God then, but there is God, that's a fact. So he is right when he says I believe or not believe, there is God. Now, it will depend on my personal endeavor to know God.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says from sunrise (?), he says everyone is conditioned anyway. Everyone is conditioned.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is conditioned, that is a fact. Unless he is conditioned, there is no question of material life. Material life means conditioned life. There is no question of material life. Material life means conditioned life. There is no question of freedom. Just like prison life. Prison life means conditioned life. You may be a first-class prisoner, a second-class, a third-class prisoner, that is another thing, but as soon as you are put within the walls of the prison house, you are conditioned. That is a fact. Similarly, anyone who has accepted this body (Sanskrit). Just like Bhāgavata says, nayam deha dehabhajam nrloke. Nrloke. Everyone is conditioned, accepting this material body. But he says nayam deha deha-bhajam nrloke. But those who have accepted this material body in the human society, for them it is not good to be engaged in sense gratification like dogs, hogs and camels. Everyone who has got this material body, he is conditioned. But, so when one gets the body of a human being, he should not be so conditioned like the dogs, hogs, camels. This is the truth, that we are conditioned. We have got the body. We have got the bodily necessity. We have to eat, we have to sleep, gratify our senses, protect ourself from fear. The conditions are there, but still, we can make the conditions better. How? Tapo. We have to undergo austerities, penances. Just like we, we don't say, "No sex life," but "No illicit sex life." This is better life.
Prabhupāda: So that is fortunate. If you can protect... Therefore I repeatedly said that our Dallas center should be taken as very much important place. All our children must go.
Śyāmasundara: Make the environment perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have repeatedly said.
Devotee: The reason he built the box, he could not control the environment.
Prabhupāda: No, no, box, you are speaking box, (indistinct) different box. That is another thing. But the perfection is required.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless I am trained up to think that I do not possess anything, everything belongs to the State... But it is very difficult to change. Simply nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: But they think like that.
Prabhupāda: They think but (indistinct) utopian, that is another thing. But, so...
Śyāmasundara: They're all... Yes, this is an example. There was one woman, who was in charge of the, a maid in that hotel. Although she must have known from childhood that that hotel belongs to the state, the foodstuff belongs to the state, everything belongs to the state, still she had proprietorship, false proprietorship over her kitchen, that kitchen. She would not allow us into that kitchen.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Śyāmasundara: But more people go from India there to learn science.
Indian man: No, no.
Prabhupāda: No. That is another thing, material science. Material science. But when people come from West to India, they do not come here to learn material science. They come here to understand what is God, these things.
Indian man: Not only that, you know. Gandhi told the same thing. He said when Kanjulatem(?) went to London, he was told that "Your religion is ancient. Why did you not come to teach us?" He said, "Whom to teach? Your fathers and grandfathers were jumping off trees."
Prabhupāda: That's it. Darwin's theory.
Prabhupāda: Why Mao becoming old? He is controlled. Is it that he will not die? Then he is controlled.
Śyāmasundara: He may die, but they will still accept him as the leader.
Prabhupāda: Well... Accept leader, a group of rogues and thieves accept another big thief as leader. (laughter) That is another thing. You see? That does not mean he is leader?
Śyāmasundara: So the nature of truth is not always derived from phenomenon. In other words, I can tell these people that this certain rock is God often enough so that they will eventually say, "Yes, this rock is God."
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say the rock is God. We say God is God. We are not so foolish that we say rock is God.
Prabhupāda: He is convinced, but where is the proof that his leadership should be accepted?
Śyāmasundara: That it works socially. That people are becoming happy under this philosophy.
Prabhupāda: But shall not be happy. If I am given under the control of Communist government, I shall not be happy. We were there for a week in Moscow. We were not at all happy. That boy who came to us, he is not happy. So where is your perfection? You make everyone happy; then it is all right. If you think that "I am happy, my brother is happy. That's all right. Let others go to hell," that is another thing.
Prabhupāda: His image, if God is absolute, His image is also God. If God is absolute, then His words are also God. That is absolute conception. That iw not different. So the image which we worship in the temple, if it is actually image of God, then it is as good as God. God is absolute. God says that "This earth, water..., so everything is My energy." So even if you say, "This image is made of stone," but the stone is God's energy, bhūmi, earth. So there is a regulative principle, just like a wire, a copper wire, it is carrying electricity. Although the copper wire is not electricity, but it is carrying electricity. Similarly, if you take even material-otherwise spiritually everything is God, that is another thing—but materially if we distinguish that the copper wire, it appears as copper wire, but if you touch, "Oh, there is electricity." So it is manipulated. Similarly, by the rules and regulation as enunciated by the experienced spiritual master and guru, then even if you think it is stone, it is God. The same example, you see it is electric wire, but it is electricity. Similarly, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. It is..., this has been warned: don't think that this śilā, stone. Is God. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as saw Jagannātha, immediately fainted. So we have to be trained up by the instruction of God how to realize God everywhere.
Hayagrīva: This is Thomas Henry Huxley. Huxley felt that the main difference between man and the animals is the ability to speak. Now, is...
Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of another nonsense. Everyone speaks in his own language. What does he..., what he means by speak?
Hayagrīva: But isn't speech, which is the articulation of the intellect, the primary difference between man and the animals in the sense that is it not through words that one can come to understand God?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but the animal has a, his own language, as the human being has his own language. So why does he say that? When he speaks, he speaks from the very beginning in his own language.
Hayagrīva: Well he, he, he mentions speech as being "Intelligible, rational speech..."
Prabhupāda: They have got rational speech.
| Page Title: | That is another thing (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 24 of Aug, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=134, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 134 |