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That is another thing (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told her, I said, if she wished to come with us, (break) that only married women could come with us. I told her that. Because it was not good for men, unmarried men, brahmacārīs and brahmacārīṇis, to constantly be mixing, and so I felt that it would be better for married people than brahmacārīs. And she... (someone moves microphone) ...did she wish to come?

Prabhupāda: She likes this... (microphone noise) But also marriage problem, one must have a choice. So if we force something, that is not (chuckling) good. At least, in your country it is not... Of course, in your country, the husband...the boys and girls are, I mean to say, not major, whatever the parents force, that is another thing. When the boys and girls are grown up, it is not possible. Just like in India, there was svayaṁvara. Svayaṁvara means the girl will select her own bridegroom. That was allowed to princess. Princess, highly qualified princess. So the father would make a challenge, that "This is the condition. One who can fulfill this condition, I'll offer my daughter to him." So this was generally amongst the princes. So there was great fight. (laughs) Just like Arjuna. Arjuna married Draupadī. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down. There is a reflection in waterpot.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Miss Rose: Yes, but a lot of hippies have gone back to... They've went to Florida, Swamiji. Thousands of hippies went back to Florida. They left Boston.

Prabhupāda: They are, most of them, in Hawaii also.

Miss Rose: Oh, there's some in Hawaii too?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Miss Rose: Oh.

Candanācārya: Prabhupāda, I think he was worried because... (Break)

Prabhupāda: ...all right. We don't hate hippies. We have nothing... But these people misunderstand. That is... That is another thing. We welcome everyone. We have no such distinction.

Miss Rose: Oh, yes, yes. Everyone can come.

Prabhupāda: Never mind.

Miss Rose: Kṛṣṇa's good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I am the father of everyone." Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Not only human being. All animals, trees, plants. So Kṛṣṇa is universal.

Allen Ginsberg: Now, for instance, in America many of the black people are tending toward Allah and toward Muhammadanism.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Somebody is inclined to some thing, somebody is inclined to some thing. That is going on, and it will go on till the end of the creation. (laughing)

Allen Ginsberg: Yuga.

Prabhupāda: But our process is that, you are searching after the center, here is the center. That is our proposal.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Pictures should not be made. Pictures should not be made. Because it would limit God to human conception.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. If God is everything, then where is material? He is spiritual. Material means when you cannot understand God. That is material. Everything is sky. When it is covered by cloud we call it is cloudy. Similarly, cloud has no existence. It comes only to cover sometimes, but the sky is eternal. Similarly, God is eternal. When you are covered by some māyā, you cannot see, you cannot understand God, that is material. So any philosophy which does not help understanding God, that is material. That is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Where is material if God is everything? Sarvam khalv idam brahma. You see?

Hayagrīva: All spirits.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Govinda dāsī: It was a big snake? Very big? And was it Śeṣa?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. It may be understood that he was Śeṣa, but that was the incident. And another incident is that when He was just walking... So it is the system that small children, they are decorated with ornaments here, here, bangle, so many ornaments, here. So one thief saw that... He stole away the child. So he was seeking some secret place, lonely place, so that he can rob of... In this way seeking, seeking, he traveled, and at last he came just in front of the house, and he dropped the child, that "Somebody may see that I have taken this child. Then I'll be beaten, I will be caught." So out of fear he fled away. And the guardians, ladies, they were very much anxious, "Who has taken the child? He was with ornaments." But they saw that the child is there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enjoyed for some time on the shoulder of the thief.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: You have heard about our philosophy? You have heard about our philosophy?

Guest (1) (Indian man): Whatever I have read, but, you see, I don't believe what I have read. I believe only whatever I have talked to you, whatever you have said.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is another thing. But still, what is your conception of our philosophy? What is that teaching?

Guest (1): Whose? My?

Prabhupāda: No, as we are?

Guest (1): No, I have understood what I have heard from you, what is your conception of God, I have not understood.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: But those who are rigid, they are prepared to die even.

Yamunā: Vaiṣṇavas, wouldn't they just chant?

Prabhupāda: Their proposal is "Death is sure today or tomorrow, so why shall I change my principles? Death will take place even if I live for ten years more, and what is the benefit? Why shall I change my principles? It is not that by taking that medicine or liver extract I shall be amara, immortal." That is not possible. If somebody gives some medicine that one can make himself immortal, that is another thing. Nobody is going to be immortal. Why he should be afraid of death? Death will take place. "As sure as death." So today, or tomorrow, or hundred years after. So if one moment is utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that makes life successful. Why shall I live for hundred years, waste my time? One moment is sufficient for living.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: What is that inner form? You are inner form. Your outer, your coat, is not thinking. Your shirt is not thinking. What you mean by outward, inward? Inward you are. Outward your coat and shirt. Do you think your coat and shirt is thinking? You are thinking.

Guest (1): Yes, I am thinking, but, you see...

Prabhupāda: There is no "but." You are thinking.

Guest (1): I am thinking. One is at the lower level, and one is at the higher...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Either in the lower level or in the higher level, you are thinking.

Guest (1): Yes, all right.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.

Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?

Prabhupāda: From the higher authority.

Guest (1): So how we know?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, who is higher authority. That you have to search out. That you have to search out.

Guest (1): We must understand what is higher person and what is lower and whether Buddha is correct or not.

Prabhupāda: Now, higher authority... Suppose we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: He knows Sanskrit very well. Compulsory. Therefore it is said, gacchet-compulsory. Tad-vijñānārtham... Tat, the transcendental knowledge, vijñāna, that is science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva niścayate (MU 1.2.12). Eva is niścayate. Eva means certainly. And again gacchet, "must go." Now, just like to be educated, one must be admitted in a school, must be. Now, what kind of school he has to select, that is another thing, but he must. That's a fact. Similarly, you have to accept a guru. Now, whom you will accept a guru, that is another thing. But you have to do it. That is the injunction of all śāstras. Vedic process is like that. This upanayana, the sacred thread, upanayana. Upa means near, and nayana means bringing. Anayanam, coming or going, like that, nayanam. So "to go near the spiritual master," upanayana.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: So shall I answer now? Now you stop; I answer. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So even though you have got so many sinful life, Kṛṣṇa assures that "If you surrender unto Me I shall give you protection from the reaction."

Guest (2): That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa, yes. Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): Surrender to Kṛṣṇa, not surrender to all who...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are saying not "Surrender unto me." We say, always saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore the same word. I am not saying that "I have become Kṛṣṇa. I have become God. You surrender to me." We are preaching, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So we are not speaking differently from Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand. We are saying... Suppose if I say, "Give me a glass of water," and if you say, "Oh, give Swamiji immediately a glass of ...," the same thing.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (3): Gītā jñāna itself is given by Lord incorporeal, not to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, it is told, at the time the jñāna was given had a body which became divya Vedānta(?).

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your interpretation.

Guest (3): That is exactly what...

Prabhupāda: No, you say. Anyone who... Anyone... Whatever he says, he thinks like that, exact. That is another thing. But we know that Kṛṣṇa had no difference between His body and soul. He is absolute. Now, you are talking from the point of view that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different.

Guest (3): Ah, no... In every body...

Prabhupāda: That is not the fact. That is not the fact.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): Virtue and sin become the same in sama-darśinaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is sama-darśinaḥ.

Guest (2): In other words, the sin does not remain sin any longer.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But he has no vision that "This is sin, and this is virtue." That is sama-darśinaḥ. As soon as you make distinction, you are not sama-darśinaḥ.

Guest (2): In another interpretation, in...

Prabhupāda: You may interpret in a different. Sama-darśi, this is plain word. Sama-darśi means there is no difference, that's all.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: First stage, last stage. When one is paramahaṁsa just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, three hundred thousand times, no eating unless he finishes his chanting. No eating, no sleeping. That is another thing. "I shall eat so much, I shall sleep so much, and I shall do nothing, simply chanting." No. That is not recommended by my Guru Mahārāja. He says that you are cheating people. (Bengali) There is a song written by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī: "What kind of Vaiṣṇava you are?" (Bengali) "Your chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in a secluded place," (Bengali) "is simply cheating." What do you know what you are chanting? First of all prepare yourself to come to the stage of perfect chanting. This is sevā. Always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service: how to decorate the temple, how to invite people, giving the feast, write books, distribute books and knowledge. In this way don't sit idly. Always be engaged, always.
Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Mr. Arnold: Well, my wife and I, we can. We're old.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are excepted. You are excepted. Sometimes old men are called old fools. (laughing)

Mr. Arnold: My wife is twice..., she's older that I am, and she's made me return because sometimes I've lost my temper with, over, you know, various things that happen...

Prabhupāda: The thing is that you are liberal to understand things as they are. But generally, old men, they are sophisticated. They do not like to accept anything new: "Go away." Or they are not serious about religion. That is another thing. Actually..., as I see that old, older section, they have been habituated in a different way, so they do not want to change (indistinct). That is the difference. So "Here is a nice thing; you should accept it." They are not inclined in that way. All stereotyped. Just like you have said last night, I told Lord Zet...

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Guest (1): Don't worry about that.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't worry. That is another thing. But there are so many vacant churches. They are for sale. But as soon as we go, they refuse. "No."

Guest (1): When you chant, do you have to think what you're saying? How can you do other things?

Prabhupāda: Other things?

Guest (1): Well, many things require your concentration.

Prabhupāda: Well, let us first of all chant the holy name. Then we shall think of concentration.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: But if it is glorification of God, we can hear. There is no objection.

Revatīnandana: But there may be no reference to God in it.

Prabhupāda: No, then we don't hear. We reject.

Guest (1): Inspired by God, given by God.

Prabhupāda: Given by God is everything. That is another thing. Just like everything is government property. But do you like to go to the prisonhouse? We say everything belongs to government. We are not so liberal, that "Because everything belongs to government, therefore I shall go to the prisonhouse."

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe. Everything must be related with God.

Guest (1): Well, if you're relaxing, if you need to relax, and you sit and listen to some music, it doesn't say praise God all the time, but in fact is, because it's beautiful.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept anything beautiful without God. Without God, everything is ugly to us. Everything ugly.

Guest (1): So you have to bless it by offering it to God first.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: Now, even there was no God's picture, one who is God conscious, he can see in the natural scenery presentation, he can see, "Oh, how God is artistic. How he has manufactured this flower, how he has painted, how He has made this tree." So that is higher intelligence. That is higher intelligence. Because without God, there can be nothing existing. So one has to learn how to see God in everything. That is another thing. That is higher status. Yes. But in the lower status of God consciousness one is advised that you should not see anything without God. But in the higher status, there is nothing in the world which is without God. But we should not imitate the higher status of life in the lower status of our position. Otherwise, one who has learned about God, he can see God in this flower. Actually, how God's hand has worked out this nice flower. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just like I am drinking water. In the taste of the water I'll see God. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." And actually, that taste cannot be created by man. The taste in the water, that is God's gift. So as soon as I taste the water, immediately I should remember, "Oh, here is God."
Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune if your mother cheats you. That's a different thing. That's different. We are expecting mother will not cheat us.

Dr. Weir: Some of them don't know!

Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. Suppose you are a lawyer. I put my faith in you but if you cheat me I lose the case. That is another thing.

Dr. Weir: Sometimes it's just honest ignorance.

Prabhupāda: No. Generally mother is honest. If one is unfortunate he has got a mother like that, cheat you. Generally expected, a mother is honest. Mother loves his child, he gives the good information. That is mother's position. But if someone has got a different mother, that's..., the same thing can be applicable to you also. You are lawyer. Everyone depends on you, but if you conduct a case in a different way just to make profit to other party, you can do that. That is my misfortune. I have to depend on you for conducting the case. I have no other means.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: It was once rather well put by some woman who said to Mr. Carlyle, who's was in a way of being a philosopher. "You know, Mr. Carlyle, I accept the universe." He said, "Madam, you better." This is the beginning of, you might say, reason.

Prabhupāda: There are sentiments, like Cowper said, "England, I love you with all thy fault." That is another thing. That is a compromise.

Dr. Weir: The difficulty is in any form of discussion like this is it's very fascinating, but it does show the limitations of transmission of feelings and ideas and all those complicated things by a simple verbal process, which is the real problem.

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Accha. This ijya-dhīḥ, to worship the land of birth, but bhārata-bhūmi has special, it is pūjā...

Guest: That is my contention.

Prabhupāda: Not, not as nationality.

Guest: Not as nationality. There are more...

Prabhupāda: But the land where Lord Kṛṣṇa came, Lord Rāma came, Lord Caitanya came, that land is certainly worshipable. That is another thing. In that way...

Guest: In that way I was saying that we talk more of spiritualism here. I don't know whether they talk it in other countries or not. But we do here more.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Reporter: It is not easy to be able to live, everybody... You know what a pāpī I am. I don't think the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so easy...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if you are pāpī, if you see... Don't you see the sunlight?

Reporter: It's very easy to see.

Prabhupāda: Suppose you are pāpī. Do you think that you don't see the sunlight?

Reporter: Yes, we do.

Prabhupāda: So if Kṛṣṇa says, "The sunlight is Myself," what is the difficulty, even if you are pāpī? If..., don't... If you say, "I won't understand like that," that is another thing. But if the statement is clear, even if you are pāpī, what is the difficulty to understand? Simply if you say, "I won't understand," like this, that is a different thing.

Reporter: No, no, no. So how do you explain to a Muslim, he's...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You say one after another.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They will mislead some white man and... In India also there is this class. In Assam side. They eat man. Man means they regularly sacrifice before the Goddess Durgā and eat. (indistinct), Rāvaṇa's brother. The Red Indians, they also eat in America. Do they not?

Yamunā: They used to. There are no left anymore.

Prabhupāda: "Used to" means who knows what they are doing now.

Yamunā: The white men came and killed them.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they kill for eating. That is..., fighting or for taking possession, killing, that is everywhere. that is not extraordinary. But killing for eating a man, that is extraordinary.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...take away Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. The Japanese, they also eat everything? No.

Devotee: Not now.

Prabhupāda: Some of them?

Devotee: In times of war, I think all people...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but generally.

Devotee: No, they don't. In China, the island of Taiwan, the original inhabitants, they were known as man-eaters.

Prabhupāda: Man-eaters?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this Calcutta story is not a story, it is fact. Hm?

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: It is not superficial. This dancing is spiritual ecstasy. Otherwise it is not a dog's dance. You see? Any gentleman, if I ask you, "Please dance on this footpath," will you agree? It is not that dancing. You don't compare with that dancing. It is not dog's dance. They chant, they feel, they dance. That is another thing. You try to understand it. If they are coming from respectable families... Now, here is a boy. He is a professor. So if I ask him, "Please go and dance on the footpath," will he agree? A professor will agree? But when a professor dances, there is something. You should understand.

Author: Sir, I'm not saying that the dancing is meaningless. I was saying that when one sees people dancing, that doesn't mean anything.

Prabhupāda: That does not mean to you.

Author: That's what I mean.

Prabhupāda: But it means to them.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You can see by every one of us in this temple, like that. There will be, as the gopīs said, that "Since You are here, the opulences, all opulences are there." Since You are in the temple, since Kṛṣṇa is present there, all opulences will be. Just see that in the temple since Kṛṣṇa is present there, all opulences is there. If you think that this is idol worship, that is another thing. Kṛṣṇa is present here. You should believe like the gopīs, then everything (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He went to church and he could not find out.

Prabhupāda: That may be.

John Fahey: I couldn't feel it.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you may be cheated, that is another thing. Suppose you ask something from somebody. If he cheats you, that may be your mistake or his, but the process is the same; you cannot avoid it. If you want to know God, then you have to go to a person who knows God. You might have gone to a person who does not know. That is another thing. You went to a wrong person. But actually if you want to know God, you must have to go to a person who knows God. That you have to search out. That requires intelligence. But you cannot give up the idea. Because you have been cheated, "I could not get information"; therefore, you cannot give up that business. You have to find out somebody else. But because you say "I have been cheated. I could not get the right information. I stop this business," that is not allowed. You must. Therefore, according to Vedic order it is said, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Abhigacchet means you must to a person to understand that science of God. You must go to a guru or a man who knows. Guru means who is more intelligent. Guru means weight, heavy, heavier, heavier in knowledge. So you have to find out a person who is heavier than you, not ordinary. Must go. Not that may go or may not go. No. Must go. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And what is the symptom of guru? Śrotriyaṁ. Means he has heard about God from his superior, his guru. Śrotriyaṁ. And how can I know that he has heard from his superior about God? He might say that "Yes, I have heard," but what symptoms? Brahma-niṣṭham. Brahma-niṣṭham means that he has become a complete devotee of God, result.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Guest (2): But how does this differ from the Hebrew scriptures? Hebrews also say the same thing, you know, that you have fallen down from the heaven and go back...

Prabhupāda: But Hebrew... Hebrew, Indian, there are... The aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the... The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We... Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no religion. Strictly speaking, simply some dogmas, maybe some moral principles. That is another thing. But moral principles we have to transcend. We don't say that don't follow moral principles. But even they do not follow the moral principles. Then what is the..., where is the religion? Just like Christian religion, it is said that "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. So nobody's... Factually, religion means conception of God and the words of God, all over the world. Just like good citizen means he knows what is the government and what is the law of government. He is following. Similarly, religious person means he must know what is God and what are the words of God. So our principle is that we follow the words of God. God says, God says that "Always think of Me." So who can object to this, if he's seriously about religion? Why one should not think of God always? God says that "You think of Me." But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of? We have God, Kṛṣṇa, here. We can think of His form. We are busy in His service. We are not only thinking; we are trying to become His devotee. We are serving, trying to serve Him. Rising early in the morning, offering maṅgala-ārati, then prayers, then reading His message, trying to apply in our life as far as possible. We are not perfect, but we are trying to follow the instruction of God. This is our life. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. So you have studied that magazine. Can you give me any idea, what do you think about religion? What is religion?

Ian Polsen: Religion to me means more now that I have come in contact with Kṛṣṇa consciousness than it did before. It means self-realization. It means realization of my relationship with the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Still there must some why. Why your forefathers they work and they die? So do you think that is the only philosophy, to work and die? That is being done by the animals also. They work and die.

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. First thing is, why you are working? What is the purpose of working? If the purpose of working is to work hard and then die, finished, then where is the difference between the animals and the men? They are also working. They are dying, too. Cats, dogs, hogs. Then after some time they die without knowing the purpose of life. Then where is the difference between cats, dogs, hogs and (indistinct) human beings. This question does not arise in the modern civilization. And one is thinking, "Yes, it is the same." But they're lying on the street, we're lying on a very nice apartment, bedstead. This is our profit.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: But, but, that is not (indistinct). If you get another body, naturally the same way of life. Same way of life means this life... This material body means four functions: eating, sleeping, sex intercourse, and defense. So as soon as you take another body, it's the same business (indistinct). It may be dog's life, it may be cat's life, or it may be human life. But the business is the same: eating, sleeping, sex intercourse and defense.

Scholar: And the idea of nirvāṇa, and soul...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is an... That you have to prepare. That is not for the cats and dogs. That is meant for really human beings, those who are actually executing life as human beings. That is not for the cats and dogs. (pause) All right. Thank you very much.

Scholar: Thank you for this time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now my request is that you have got some, you have so many, you're interested in Bhagava... Preach like this.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started from a point where there's no background. There's no...

Prabhupāda: No background. That is another thing. And still, they cannot prove it at present. They're expecting to prove it in the future.

Karandhara: They say: "It happened in the past, but we'll do it in the future."

Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense?

Karandhara: But who did it in the past?

Prabhupāda: And how, how he knows that it began in the past? If he cannot prove it in the present?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They assume it.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they cannot do at the moment, but somebody will come up in future so they can show. But they don't want to admit...

Prabhupāda: So that's all right, but, at the present moment, you are rascal. Somebody when come, intelligent, that is another thing, but you are rascal. So why you are leading, cheating others? That is our protest, that you know that you are a rascal, and you are cheating others to become leader. That is our protest. Why should you cheat others? Mūḍhaḥ. If he says that: "How do you know that I am rascal?" Because you do not know God. Therefore you are rascal. Mūḍhaḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). If you are, would have known what is God, then you would have surrendered to Him. Then you are intelligent. But because you do not surrender, you do not know what is God, therefore you are a rascal. This is the definition of rascal. Jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. And intelligent means one who surrenders. He's intelligent. One who does not, he's rascal.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science. (break) ...suffer from cancer. (laughter) They don't suffer from cancer. So they are in better position than the so-called human society. They are creating causes of cancer disease and then making research and taking Nobel Prize. How foolish society it is, this. Why you create the cause of cancer disease? You accept these four principles of life—no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex—there will be no cancer. There will be no cancer. You find out, those who are strictly on this line, they never suffer from cancer or any disease. Now take for example, me. I have come here in this country for the last seven years, 1965, and it is 1973, eight years. How many times I have gone to doctor? That once that heart attack. That is serious; that is another thing. Otherwise generally how many times I have gone to? I don't pay any bill of doctors. So if we live very hygienic life, regulated life, there is no question of cancer or any disease.
Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now the point is, we, we say the laws of nature is also given by somebody else. That is our point.

Krishna Tiwari: Which probably I have nothing to add to.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes, but my one...

Prabhupāda: Now, what is that person, that is another thing, but simply let us agree that we are under the laws of nature, and laws of nature is also controlled by somebody.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, we can say that...

Prabhupāda: That is our point. That is our point. Now, who is that person, or what is that substance which is controlling the law of nature, that is not yet known to the science.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: One thing is, that he has accepted that there is a controller of the nature. Now, what is that controller you do not know.

Krishna Tiwari: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: That's the point. So we know. That is the difference. You believe me or not, that is another thing.

Krishna Tiwari: Okay. All right.

Prabhupāda: I say that controller is Kṛṣṇa. Now you may disagree with me. But I have got evidence from the śāstra that Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all brāhmaṇas in India.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I accept Him too.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's not in want. He's complete in Himself. But when a devotee gives Him love and faith, He accepts: "All right. Thank you." That is another thing. Otherwise, He doesn't require anything from him. What beautiful thing you can give to Kṛṣṇa? He can create thousand times beautiful thing than you... What power you have got? Why should you desire like that? But if you are devotee, either it is beautiful or ugly, it doesn't matter. If you give to Kṛṣṇa in good faith, He'll accept it. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He doesn't require anything. But bhaktyā, in devotion and love, if anyone offers even a little leaf, a little flower, tad aham aśnāmi, "I accept." He says. A little flower and little leaf, what benefit you'll do to Kṛṣṇa, unlimited? But He says, "Still, I accept because it is offered in faith and devotion." So that is a different thing.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: I have a brother, who is very like me, and, well, this helps me to believe that I know who my father was.

Prabhupāda: No.

Mr. Wadell: In one sense.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Because one gentleman resembles your features, you think that he is your brother. That is another thing. But here the process that if you want to know who is your father, the process is it should be known through the mother. There is no other process. It is not that suggestion: because somebody resembles my face, he is my father. Not like that. It is the perfect process.

Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I agree with what you say. I am just adding another explanation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you cannot understand your father by any other process. This is the only process. That means things which are unknown, beyond our conception, you have to know it through the authority. Just like you know your father through the authority of your mother.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: He doesn't supply his bread to everybody unless...

Prabhupāda: Everybody, yes, everybody. Beginning...

Mr. Wadell: People die, do they not?

Prabhupāda: Die, that is another thing. People die even if he has got many things to eat, still he dies. Can you check it? That does not depend on eating. There are many men. They are dying. Although they are...

Mr. Wadell: I am taking you too literally. Let us forget about that point. It's not worthwhile.

Prabhupāda: No, no, because you say, "They are dying, God is not supplying," that is a mistaken idea. God is supplying. God is supplying. He is dying natural death. It is not that because there is want of supply, therefore he is dying. That is a mistaken idea. Death is not dependent on supply of food. There are so many other causes.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why long time? You can speak in short shell, nutshell, that "I am this."

Father Tanner: No, no. Not... You know, in some ways...

Prabhupāda: We can say. We can say.

Father Tanner: In some ways, I am very intolerant. In some way, I am very tolerant.

Prabhupāda: That, that is another thing. First of all I must know what is my identity.

Father Tanner: But my identity is made up of so many... It's not one thing.

Prabhupāda: But that one... First of all one. Just like we say that "My identity is that I am eternal servant of God." This is my identity.

Father Tanner: Well, this is the inner being, but then it finds expression in me...

Prabhupāda: Now, as servant of God, I may have many activities. But my identity is that I am eternal servant of God. This is our identity. So if I love myself, because I am eternal servant of God, therefore, if I actually I love myself, I must always engage myself in the service of the Lord. This is love.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): That's exactly what is happening.

Prabhupāda: That, happening, that is another thing. We are talking of the principle. God is one. God cannot be two. Then there is no meaning of God. Now, if I present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you disagree, then you'll have to present your god. Now, we have to consider who is actually God. Just like I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. So I asked him that "Where is the difference between your communist philosophy and our philosophy? The communist philosophy, they have created their own god, Lenin." Lenin is their God. We have seen in Moscow.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, I've been...

Prabhupāda: Every street, every a...

Buddhist Monk (1): Every street. I know, all over.

Prabhupāda: Lenin, Lenin's picture, Lenin's book.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's right.

Prabhupāda: So I told him that "You have created your own god, Lenin. And we have got our own God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, the principle of accepting somebody as God is there, in your philosophy and in my philosophy. So that you cannot avoid. Your communistic philosophy cannot avoid the conception of God, the leader." Just like in Buddha philosophy also, there is the conception of God, of Lord Buddha.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): How is one to find out...?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah, that's a very important advantage, you know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that is another thing. Our philosophy is: God is the most perfect. Otherwise He cannot be God. So you follow God; then you become perfect. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching personally. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. And if we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then we become perfect. Where is the difficulty? Simple thing.

Buddhist Monk (1): What we say is...

Prabhupāda: If you think that Kṛṣṇa's not perfect, somebody is perfect, then you follow him.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): If one radiates love and kindness...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Defense is allowed to everyone. You must defend. That is another thing. But ordinarily, not that because a lion has got jaws and teeth, therefore he's simply jumping over. Not like that. Even people have experienced that when the, these ferocious animals, they are not hungry, they don't attack. They don't attack.

Haṁsadūta: They don't bother.

Prabhupāda: No. Or if you keep a pet lion, give him sumptuously to eat, he'll not... That is experienced. I have seen in the World Fair in, in... One man was keeping a lion and a tiger, and playing just like with dog. Just like sometimes dogs, they pounce over the master. Same thing. They were doing like that. I have seen it. They have tamed the lion and tiger like that.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ, all kinds of Vedas. All kinds, sarvaiḥ. So Bible can be taken as Vedas because it is trying to give knowledge about God, maybe for a certain class of men. That is another thing. But the subject matter is how to know God. So that can be taken as also, as Vedas. Because ultimate knowledge is how to know God. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So we accept Bible also as Vedas, but we simply say that they misinterpret the Biblical commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. What is this? This is my question. How they'll understand God if they are so much implicated in sinful activities? According to Vedas, there are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ. So God is purest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). How one can approach God if he leads a sinful life? That is our propagation. You give up this sinful life. Then you'll be able to understand God. You follow Christianity or Mohammedanism or Buddhism. It doesn't matter. You give up this sinful life.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: A God conscious person is getting direct instruction from God. How it can be defective? It cannot be. Practical. But if one is defective, he's not yet fully God conscious.

Devotee: Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ... (BG 10.10). Prabhupāda: Ah!

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ
yena mām upayānti te
(BG 10.10)

Pradyumna: Ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate... Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is the best medicine, meditation.

Woman: What about the other kind?

Prabhupāda: When meditation, meditation, dhyāna, it is very difficult nowadays. You chant to meditate, you think of your own business. That's another thing. So this is forced meditation: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Even if you do not want to hear, you will hear. (laughter) And there is chanting and dancing, everyone who doesn't wanted to hear they also hear.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: Well, I've just said that. I gave the example of the chap who comes to you with a revolver. I can maybe protect myself. You said... You're implying...

Prabhupāda: No, no. When somebody comes with a revolver, you defend. That is another thing. But if somebody's innocent, why you should kill?

Jesuit Priest: And I say I shouldn't. God said, "Thou shalt not kill."

Prabhupāda: Then why you are killing animals?

Jesuit Priest: Well, you're doing it when you eat your potatoes.

Prabhupāda: No, the potato is not animal.

Jesuit Priest: It's a vegetable, life.

Prabhupāda: No.

Jesuit Priest: It starts with a little tiny seed. That's life.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Jesuit Priest: It grows.

Prabhupāda: Potato is not animal. It is fruit.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Well, my brain works and I also, if there was a war tomorrow, I could go and be a nurse and look after the sick...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right.

Mother: ...and still be with God.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. There are four divisions. So one division can take help of the other division. That is another thing. But you are asking that, "You are simply interested in brain. Why not for the leg?" But we are interested. But not in that way. When we can see that I can pay for the medical man and I can get the help, why shall I waste my time to become a medical man.

Mother: I think it's so sad to see a lot of very good...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Just, just try to understand this point.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There was some bombing in Calcutta, nothing more.

Mother: Hm. Ah, but these Indians were fighting in France.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another thing.

Mother: Dunkirk.

Prabhupāda: Dunkirk.

Mother: And then they came, when Dunkirk was evacuated, they came back in all these little boats that they escaped in, and they got together and they billeted them... And I was living with my godmother in Sholden (?) in Devonshire. And we had eight acres. And the Army put up huts for them. And they lived there for about eight months until more Indians were sent to make them back to strength again, the regiments, big enough. And then they went overseas again. Some went to Burma, some to Italy. I don't know where they went, of course, but they were very good...

Prabhupāda: They went to die, after all.

Mother: They were very good soldiers. No, they didn't all die. Of course, some did, I expect.

Prabhupāda: Some, (laughs) yes.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: So wherever possible, the slaughtering business should not go on.

Schumacher: That's right. But the Eskimos, for instance...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Schumacher: That's what I was saying, you see.

Prabhupāda: When there is no food, so human life is more important than animal life. So the human life should be saved at the sacrifice of animals. That is another question. But where there is complete facilities to get very nice, nutritious food, why these poor animals should be killed?

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, it is a simple question. Killing, do you think killing is very good business? Then why it is forbidden, "Thou shall not kill."

Schumacher: No, but sometimes protection is necessary.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Generally, you should not kill. But when there is absolute necessity, that is another thing. But generally, this killing process you cannot support, and at the same time, you want to make the society purified. You commit sinful activities; at the same time, you want to purify. How it is possible?

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What that higher platform? Eating, you require to maintain the body. I eat something, you eat another. That does not mean higher or lower. You eat, I also eat. That's all. You eat according to your taste. I eat according to my taste. So the eating is the real symptom, not the varieties of eating. By varieties of eating, suppose I... A animal, the cow is eating grass, and you are eating the same animal by keeping a huge slaughterhouse with machines and... Does it mean that you have improved your eating process? Simply by having big, big machine and ghastly scenes. And the animal eats simple grass. Does it mean that you are advanced than the animals? There is no logic. Eating is eating. One man's food, another man's poison. That is another thing. But eating is there. Somebody eats poison. Somebody eats ordinary thing. But eating is there. So nobody can avoid eating. That is the main symptom. Even in human society, there are different varieties of food. We Indians, we like a different type of dish. European, Americans, they like a di... But eating is there. Either American, Indian or cats, dogs, eating must be there. That is real symptom. After eating, you must sleep. That is essential. So where is the difference of real character, characteristic between the animals and the human beings?

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Eating, that is another thing. First of all, if the, point is that you say that the animals have no soul. So what is the special point that you are speaking of the animals having no soul? You eat meat, or I eat rice, that doesn't matter, but eating is there. That is the common thing. You cannot say the animal does not eat or man does not eat. Only animal eats. No. Everyone eats. First of all, you enunciate: how do you say that the human being has got soul and the animal has not soul? What are the special symptoms?

Yogeśvara: His, his point was that only in humans do we find a metaphysical search for the meaning of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: And that's the only difference.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the sheeps...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Jesus Christ never maintained slaughterhouse.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Non, mais... He eated, he eated, he eated...

Prabhupāda: In certain circumstances, when there is no other food, that a life must be saved. That is another thing. But why regularly slaughterhouse should be maintained for the satisfaction of the tongue?

Yogeśvara: Is it clear? (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. But I think there is, at first, a great duty to help men and women and children to live and actually it is the first duty. It is more important to help men and women to life. The life of beast is of minor importance than the life of men.

Prabhupāda: From that point of view, you can kill lower animals. Why should you kill mother?

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, apart from religion. Religion may be sentiment or some emotion. That is another thing.

Dr. Inger: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But we can ask what is this cosmic manifestation, what is the purpose of this, who created, how it is created. Are they not scientific?

Dr. Inger: Yes. Now this is another problem. Everything of a philosophical kind, they call it science, human sciences, natural sciences, moral sciences. They think that is a fault(?) to satisfy scientific spirit. I think from that point of view, they allow big conferences to be held where a particular theme is taken, different people come. So the organization encourages, stimulates activities proposed, submitted and finally passed in resolutions by different commissions and different countries. And then it's held. And at that particular time, some people come and speak. So they have had... But they haven't... Mostly these meetings have been held and... Very few have been held here, except when they celebrated the tintinary(?) of Aurobindo, last year. Or when they celebrated the centenary of, another centenary of Ramakrishna. Like that. But not always.

Prabhupāda: Not Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you enter into the womb of a mother, it is painful. You are packed up like this, in this way. Can you, can you live for a few minutes, packed up like that, At the present moment, if I pack up and put in a bag, and then put in a box, how long you can exist?

Anna Conan Doyle: But we are not conscious at, at that particular moment.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. Just like surgical operation is going on. He's unconscious. That is another thing. By some method, he's unconscious. But the pain is there. The pain is there. The pain is not felt. Just like animals. They, they are in painful condition, but because they are animal, they do not feel it. On the horseback, you are driving horseback, like this, like this. It is painful, but because he's animal he cannot protect himself. It is very painful. Suppose if a chain is shackled on your mouth, and I constantly push like this...? Is it not painful? The horse is controlled by the mouth...

Anna Conan Doyle: Yes, by the foot...

Prabhupāda: By the chain, yes. Horse is very powerful animal than the man. How the man can control the horse? But he knows the trick, that it has to be controlled in the mouth. As soon as there is pain in the mouth, he becomes puzzled. He has to abide by the order. The man knows the tricks. Horse is not controlled by the tai... (break) ...he's controlled.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual understanding does not depend on material conditions, no.

Anna Conan Doyle: That is true, that is true.

Prabhupāda: You may be in any material condition. Still you can develop your spiritual consciousness. That is there. But sometimes we accept a certain position for our personal convenience. That is another thing. But spiritual consciousness is not dependent on any material condition. It is spontaneous. Either he's a householder or a sannyāsī or brahmacārī or business man, or... It doesn't matter. He can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious if he accepts the principles. (break) ...we have got our regulative principles, no illicit sex. So is it very difficult thing? A householder has got his wife. Why he should indulge in illicit sex? It is simply self-control. (aside:) You can keep it here. If somebody comes, you shall give him.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: So as we gradually increase our strength, our number, we have to protest to the world that: "Why you rascal and fools, keeping the whole human society in darkness? You have no knowledge." Here God says that: 'Under My direction the prakṛti's working.' You have no knowledge. You are saying that there is no aim. Without aim, why God should create this, such a big gigantic manifestation. Why He should take responsibility? Is there no responsibility to maintain this gigantic... God has got immense power. He can maintain. That is another thing. But why He should take the responsibility? Just like government creates a big prison house. It is not for nothing. There is some aim. Otherwise, why government should keep such establishment, huge establishment? It is not something faith(?). They are to be given cloth and shelter and everything, the arrangement. Similarly such gigantic universal manifestation, millions and millions of living entities are there. They have to be trained up. They have to be provided with all necessities of life. This responsibility's there. And actually God is doing that. He's giving food. He's giving necessities. Why? There is some aim. The aim is that they have misused their independence. Try to reform them again (indistinct). This is the aim.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That he cannot explain, how to control the body. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...it happens right away, it will happen in awhile.

Prabhupāda: At least, I cannot accept this. (break) ...if there is definite program. (break) The thing is that if I want to enter your association, you must give me some prescription which if I follow, I'll make progress. So that is another thing. But you have no prescription. (break)

Yogeśvara: :...submit to his grandmaster your request for a specific prescription to be given to you. He'll send in your application.

Prabhupāda: He hasn't got. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...make one special just for you.

Prabhupāda: But not for general people.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says Jesus ate meat and furthermore there is a sect in the Orient that wears gauze over their mouth so as not to kill microbes while they breathe. But we are killing those microbes. We have killed these flowers.

Prabhupāda: So they are to satisfy everyone.

Yogeśvara: Don't you think we are killing other living beings?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...study everything.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They haven't got their own anything. Simply they are studying.

Yogeśvara: Realization is what counts.

Prabhupāda: So that he cannot explain, what is the realization. If you cannot describe, then what is the realization?

Yogeśvara: He says he is only forty-nine years old. He can't describe it for you.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought. He had to show some power. And they say that he agreed to take all our sin, and he crucified. Is it not? They say?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, this is the idea.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient. (break) ...anumāna-pramāṇa. Anumāna, hypothesy, and pramāṇa, śāstra-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. evidences from the Vedas. Evidences from authorized persons. And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress. Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress. We are passing on, on the street. If I say: "Here is a big building. So someone is proprietor." This is one guess. But to know the proprietor, how he has constructed it, that is another thing. But if somebody says: "I am the proprietor." And we accept immediately? Similarly if someone says: "I am God." There is no need of evidence. "I am God." The people have to accept like that? There is no need of śāstra. How much degraded people have become that without any little evidence, they're accepting a rascal as God. How much degraded they have become. That is another thing. Because he has shown, by pushing the eyes, a light. That's all... We have to see that how much degraded the persons are. They have no even brain. What are the evidence, that he showed some light, and what else?

Haṁsadūta: Some music. Prabhupāda: Some music.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not faith, belief. It is a fact. Just like, I have already given you the example. You were a child. That body's no longer existing, but you know that you were a child. Therefore the conclusion is that although the body has changed, but you the soul, the knower, is still there. Therefore, when this body will be changed, you'll exist in another body.

Guest (2): In what form?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. First of all you have to accept this fact, that you have to change this body. As you have already changed so many times. Tathā... Kṛṣṇa first of all says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Antara, another body you have to accept.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Now, I, when we were talking, I asked him one question, that "Professor Kotofsky, you are communist, I am Kṛṣṇite. So where is the difference of philosophy? Because you have to accept one authority, leader. So you have accepted Lenin as leader; we have accepted Kṛṣṇa as leader. So where is the difference on the principle?" So he could not answer. But he very much appreciated this, that "Where is the difference between these two principles." But now we have to consider whether the leadership of Lenin is good, or the leadership of Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But you have to accept one leader. You cannot do without leader. That is not possible.

Professor: Well, well, to some extent it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No, every extent. Anyone, anyone calling... So many philosophy or ism, he has got leader. That you cannot avoid. The Buddhists, they are following Lord Buddha. Christians, they are following Lord Jesus Christ. Mohammedans, they are following Mohammed. Similarly the communists, they are following Lenin, or Max.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Unless we accept the real leader, a perfect personality who can give us perfect knowledge, there is no success. That is our philosophy.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet,

samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
(MU 1.2.12)
tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

We have to approach a person who has seen the truth in reality. Then our life is success. That is the Vedic injunction. And that is fact. Unless we are... Just like you are teacher, a professor. So therefore people are coming to you to learn. How can you say that he can follow his own philosophy? He's coming to school, college. He's taking lesson from the teacher. One has to follow. The selection may be right or wrong; that is another thing. But one has to select.

Professor: Well, one has to acquire knowledge.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: Trial and error.

Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving. That is nonsense. The body is evolving, then why the monkey body is not producing a human body at the present moment? Where is the evidence? The monkeys are already there. Where is the evidence in the zoo that a monkey has produced a human being? Do you think it is all right?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, that, that life might have taken different forms, that I'm quite sure of. And that the human being might not have existed for about a hundred thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: No human beings exists eternal. He's existing. But he accepting, he's accepting different situation.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Cats and dogs, they are doing some business.

Guest (3): What percentage of people today know about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That we do not know. But anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is, more or less, like cats and dogs. Maybe bigger dog, bigger cat. Just like amongst the dogs, there are different varieties also. So similarly he belongs to that dog, cat class.

Guest (2): Now if he is not got, then what shall he do to become aware?

Prabhupāda: No, everyone gets opportunity. But he'll not take the opportunity.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus Christ says "I am son of God." He never says, "I am God."

Indian Woman: So if they follow Jesus Christ...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Son of God is as good as God. That is another thing. We have no objection. Suppose in a big office, the father is there, the son is there. And the son has ordered something. The father will never say that "Don't do it." Because father and son, the same position. That is another thing.

Guest (1): But he is not Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): He is not Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: He's son of Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is... Just like...

Guest (2): Is he allowed to say so?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He is the Supreme, He can say. Just like a father cheats sometimes the son. The son has taken from the pocket of the father one hundred rupees' note. He's not separate. The father takes one lozenges, two paise worth. "Oh, my dear son, you can take it, very nice. You give me that." "Ah yes." It is not cheating? He's giving two paise worth lozenges, and taking hundred rupees' note. Is it not cheating? This is cheating. But father is cheating; therefore it is good. You cannot imitate father and cheat others. Father can do anything for the welfare of the son. That is another thing. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa appears as a cheater, the atheist class of men and Lord Buddha say, "No, no, there is no God. Yes, it is all right. You are right. But you hear me." "Yes, sir, we shall hear you." But he's God. This is cheating.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): Was he preaching karma-kāṇḍa?

Prabhupāda: He said that there is no God, but he's God. Just like the policeman sometimes cheats. He goes as a gambler, but he's a policeman. So that is another thing. Therefore if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you understand all these different activities. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. And you become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If anyone understands what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what His activity is, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you, after giving up this body, you haven't got to come again in this material world. Simply by studying Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are preaching, "Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...life is meant for to possess complete knowledge of the Supreme. That is perfection of knowledge. That is possible in the human form of life, not in the life of cats and dogs. That is not possible. So we have got this opportunity. If we spoil this life, living like cats and dogs, then we are missing the opportunity. This is the opportunity to understand Kṛṣṇa, God.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Śrutakīrti: Says, "These hundred years, by earth calculations, total to three hundred and eleven trillion and forty million, and forty million earth years."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you believe in Bhagavad-gītā, that is different thing. You cannot say all these things. But if you take this also, that also, that is another thing. We have to take a standard. Ācchā. (Hindi) I have got some important engagement with Mrs. Nair. She's the proprietor of the land. So...

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi ) So you can go and see the temple, ārati.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Is a seed conscious, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Everything is conscious. First of all, even gross manifestation we cannot understand, what to speak of consciousness. That is different thing. According to our philosophy, everything has got consciousness. Just like this tree has got consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists also say that they have consciousness.

Prabhupāda: But this tree's consciousness and my consciousness is different. My consciousness is developed. If you pinch on my body, my consciousness will be immediately protesting. But you cut, it will not protest. So consciousness is different. So there is nothing which has no consciousness, but it is a question of degree. It is a question of degree. The more the consciousness is covered, it is called material. The more the consciousness is developed, it is called spiritual. That is the difference between matter and spirit.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: For some time, for some time.

Prabhupāda: For sometimes every thief flourishes. That is another thing. But he must be punished.

Devotee: Hmm. He was punished.

Prabhupāda: You can cheat for some time everyone, but you cannot be allowed to cheat everyone for all the time. That is not possible. (break) ...law. Therefore Lord Rāmacandra could create millions of Sītā. So the purpose was to kill this atheist. Therefore, it was...

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Back to life how long?

Prajāpati: Life can continue.

Prabhupāda: Continue forever?

Prajāpati: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? He'll die. That is another thing. He'll die. Why he'll die? What is that condition? If you say, "chemical condition," now, as chemist, if you say, "The chemical condition has changed," we'll reply, "No chemical condition has changed." So produce life. No chemical condition has changed because life will come out immediately. So many germs and worms, they will come out. So where is the chemical condition of producing life is changed? How can you say? But that life is not coming. That Mr. John, his life is not coming. Therefore he is an individual soul. Otherwise the chemical condition is there. Otherwise how these germs and worms are coming out? But Mr. John is not coming. Therefore it is conclusion that "This is individual soul. He has gone, but he is not coming." But other living beings are coming out.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, they just fall short of their philosophy, the philosophy they hold as ideal.

Prabhupāda: So, these are all no argument. No sane man will accept this argu...

Karandhara: Most western people are so frustrated, they accept these philosophies wholeheartedly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is frustration. That is not real life. That is another thing.

Karandhara: But like you say in Bhagavad-gītā, they are so angry with all types of speculation that they become frustrated and disgusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Frustration is not life. Frustration is frustration, disappointment. That is not life.

Karandhara: They say that frustration is the only reality.

Prabhupāda: No. That's for you.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why not created? I see that your mother became pregnant and you were created and you are... Why you say... Your natural... Your mother did not become naturally pregnant. Everything is created. This table is created. You cannot say that it has come naturally.

Karandhara: This form may be created or it exists at a certain state of time, but the energy is never created.

Prabhupāda: So that also we admit. That is another thing. But the... Therefore we have got two departments, the spiritual world and the material world. In the material world everything is created. In the spiritual world, not created. It is ever-existing. And anything which is created, that is annihilated.

Karandhara: The energy is not annihilated.

Prabhupāda: No. That we also accept. But that energy belongs to whom?

Karandhara: Well, they say that because it was never created, it doesn't have to be created.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This material world is created. That you cannot say, "It is not created." Everything we see in our front, everything is created.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Wolfe, he was telling me that, because I was telling him that I did not believe in astrology. Then one day Śrīla Prabhupāda was talking on astrology. Then Wolfe said, "If Śrīla Prabhupāda said, then you believe. And if it is not said by Śrīla Prabhupāda, you don't believe."

Prabhupāda: No. We believe in astrology. But because it is a difficult science, people do not understand it properly. That is another thing. In my practical life I see. In my horoscope, everything is written, what I am doing. Everything is written. So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That would be called like genius. Sometimes. If somebody can predict what is going to happen in the future, can be, just like, taken...

Prabhupāda: No, these astrologers can give everyone exact, the history of life, what is going to happen, what happened.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: This earth, so big, huge quantity of earthly planet. So not only one. Millions. And then water, then fire, then... He cannot conceive. He is thinking that "If there is God, He must be like me. So I cannot do this. Therefore there is no God." The same, "Yes. I close my eyes. Then there is no enemies." That's all. He should be intelligent. Just like we are here ten or twenty men. You accept that "He is our guru. He is most intelligent man." Similarly, somebody is more intelligent than me, somebody is more intelligent, more intelligent. Go on searching. Find out the final intelligent. That is comparative intelligence. That we know. But what is that final intelligence? That we must know. That is God. Just like the sun. If we think that beyond this sun there is no more planet, that is not correct. You cannot go beyond this sun. That is another thing. But all the planets are surrounding the sun. That everyone knows. So if there is a planet this down the sun, why not up the sun? It is common sense. This water is impersonal, but go down the water. You will find millions of persons, aquatics. Those who are seeing superficially on the surface, they have concluded, "Now finished, all personality finished. It is all vacant." That is poor fund of knowledge. Real knowledge is go deep into the water, you will find millions of creatures. They are living very nicely within the water. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayān... Even within the atom, you will find personality.

Devotee: Is that personality within the atom Paramātmā? Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa. Govinda.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: The karmīs are always saying there is no solution.

Prabhupāda: We say we have got solution.

Bahulāśva: They don't want the solution, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. They want to be cheated. That's all.

Bahulāśva: Just like now is the gasoline problem. Now the scientists want to use sun energy. They want to make a new energy, solar energy, from the sun.

Prabhupāda: That is another bluff.

Page Title:That is another thing (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Serene
Created:24 of Aug, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=80, Let=0
No. of Quotes:80