Dr. Patel: (break) ...really spread toward the east in Indonesia and Indochina, all those places, which were again overtaken by Islam later on.
Prabhupāda: Islam is also...
Dr. Patel: History, it has spread. Even Bali Islands today are practicing Hinduism.
Brahmānanda: Aryan means change in consciousness to God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: This means all over the world there can be an Aryan culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right.
Dr. Patel: Today the world is dominated by Aryans, all over practically. Except in Central Africa.
Prabhupāda: Today the whole world is dominated by demons.
Dr. Patel: Today. The Aryans have become demons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That... Anyone can become demon. A demon can become Aryan, and Aryan can become demon by culture. That is one...
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. A brāhmaṇa can be generated to Rāvaṇa state.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Aryan culture.
- yasya hi yad lakṣanaṁ
- proktaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam
- yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta
- tat tenaiva vinirdiṣet
- (SB 7.11.35)
That who is Aryan? These are the symptoms of Aryan. If the symptoms are found in Mexico, they are Aryan. That is verdict of Nārada. Yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiṣet (SB 7.11.35). We are doing that. They are coming from mleccha family, but they have practiced to become brāhmaṇa, they are brāhmaṇa. This is Aryan culture.
Dr. Patel: But they are Aryans originally.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This you are calculating from the skin.
Dr. Patel: No, no skin. From the blood group. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Blood or skin, the same thing. The same thing. The same thing.
Dr. Patel: All the Aryans have got B blood group in majority of them.
Prabhupāda: Skin comes from the blood. You know better than..., medical practitioner.
Dr. Patel: Skin is nourished by blood. It comes from something else.
Prabhupāda: So that is not the way. When there is symptoms... The symptom is... First symptom is that he must know that he is not body, and he must know what is God. Then it is Aryan civilization.
Dr. Patel: Ātma-niṣṭha and īśvara-niṣṭha.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That is animal.
Dr. Patel: Kuṇape is a dead body. Kuṇape tri-dhātuke.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is dead. What is this body? It is already dead. Just like motorcar. It is dead lump of matter. So long the driver is, it is moving. Similarly, the body is dead. So without understanding of spiritual identification, simply decorating this body means aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-rañjanam. This is going on, loka-rañjanam, just to captivate some foolish person that they are advanced in civilization. What is that civilization? But we can understand, this civilization and the dog, there is no difference. There is no difference.
Dr. Patel: Now there will be no difference because there is just like dogs, the society, no marriages and all those... We talked yesterday. There are facts. That is going on everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Na te vidu svārtha-gati hi viṣṇu durāśay ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha, bodily concept, this is bahiḥ. And antar is the soul. So they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, simply studying this body externally, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Very nice words, selected words, are used in Bhāgavata.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, this body and the soul are complimentary. If there is no body, soul cannot reside anywhere. And if there is no soul, body will die.
Prabhupāda: No. That is another side of bodily conception. Soul is without... Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. "The soul has nothing to do with this material world."
Dr. Patel: That's right. You are absolutely right, sir. But if there is no soul in the body, what will happen to the body?
Prabhupāda: No, no. If there is no soul in the body, then body is useless.
Dr. Patel: It dies.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That we are pointing out, that without soul, this body has no meaning. It is a lump of matter. But you are saying that without this lump of matter, the soul cannot...
Dr. Patel: No, no. I don't say that. But so far as the body is living, soul has got to be there.
Prabhupāda: No.
Dr. Patel: If there is no soul inside, what will happen...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Body requires the soul for movement, but soul does not require the body.
Dr. Patel: Soul creates a body to fulfill...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Soul creates in this sense: by his karma he has to accept, accept a certain type of body. But originally he doesn't require this material world. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. And that is self-realization.
Dr. Patel: The production of the body in the cosmos is the līlā of...
Prabhupāda: No līlā. It is compulsory.
Dr. Patel: Why compulsory?
Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is beaten with shoes, that is not his līlā. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: What it is?
Prabhupāda: It is force, that "You must be beaten with shoes." That is not līlā. Nobody says, "Let me play this līlā and you beat me with shoes." (laughter) No sane man will do that. When a man is punished, that is by force, superior force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is force, prakṛti, nature's. You cannot say that "I don't care for the prakṛti." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. It is God's prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The matter, material nature, is forced upon him. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). He is accepting different bodies according to the contamination of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. That he does not know. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He does not know that there is a superior karta, daiva netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantu deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). So he is forced to accept a certain kind of body by the material nature. That he does not know. This is non-Aryan. Like dog. He does not know that why he has got this dog's body. He simply has learned how to bark, that's all.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) I have my doubts. How can we know that he is not knowing or knowing? It is our conjecture that he is not knowing.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Śāstra says. You conjecture, but we don't conjecture. We simply repeat what is said in the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. "Your eyes should be the śāstra, not conjecture." Śāstra says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He has become a dog on account of his infection with certain type of material qualities. That is our eyes. We don't conjecture anything. It is naturally may be inquired that "Why one living entity has got this body of a dog and why one living entity has got the body of King Indra?" The śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Śāstra says, Kṛṣṇa says. So it is, reason is, that he has infected the certain type of material modes of nature; therefore he has got. It is very easy. As you, medical man, you know how the disease has come, you have infected the disease. It is that.
Dr. Patel: Kāraṇaṁ ganga.
Prabhupāda: Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam, yes. I am layman. I cannot say why I have got this fever. You can... By analysis, you can say. So therefore śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Śāstra says, "You analyze his blood, and if these symptoms are there, therefore this disease is there." That is śāstra, not conjecture. You don't diagnose by simply imagining. No. That is not scientific treatment. You analyze blood, stool and this, and find out what is the germ. Then you analyze. And in the śāstra the symptoms are there, analytical, that "This kind of disease, the symptoms will be this, this, this, this." That is śāstra, not conjecture. Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "This rascal has infected this body on account of his particular connection with the modes of material nature." In the smṛti-śāstra it is stated how one gets tuberculosis, how one gets this disease, that disease, different pāpa. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...culture should be designed to cure the material disease.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Aryan culture. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Aryan culture. But they do not know what is punar janma, how we can stop this birth and death, nothing of the sort. Simply dogs and cats, that's all, jumping, very busy. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That's all. Immediately the verdict: "Oh, he does not know anything. He's as good." So? Everything is going nice?
Mahāṁsa: Yes, Prabhupāda. I just came from Bangalore last night. They are having a very big program there and a lot of publicity from the newspapers with pictures and nice articles, big articles on the front page of the newspapers there. And tomorrow the governor is coming as the chief guest for the program. He was... He had that Sunday—that is tomorrow—he was fixed on going to Sai Baba's conference, but when we went to see him he was very pleased because he had gone to our Vṛndāvana temple just ten days back, so he was very much enthused with our activities and he liked the temple very much. So he was very pleased and he said, "Yes, I will cancel Sai Baba's program and come to your program."
Devotee: Jaya. (laughter)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the governor of Karnataka?
Mahāṁsa: Yes. He was the chief minister of Rajastan previously.
Prabhupāda: Yes, some governor went to our temple, I heard.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Akṣayānanda wrote to me. Governor of Karnataka State.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is a good response, that after seeing our temple he decided to attend our conference. That is very good.
Mahāṁsa: The boys are selling more than fifteen hundred rupees' worth of books, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: In Bangalore?
Mahāṁsa: Yes. And the most popular book there now is that Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Everyone, everyone is buying. (Prabhupāda laughs)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They wanted us to print lakhs of copies of that book.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can get it printed in India now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in that book we have mentioned that Darwin's theory is completely bogus. In Europe and America also we are getting good response, very.
Mahāṁsa: Also another party of five devotees, they have started on the bullock cart saṅkīrtana, going village to village. But it's very austere. They were... I told them, "You go for two months, come back after two months." But they returned in six days. (laughter)