Temporary (Conv. 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"temporal" |"temporarily" |"temporary" |"temporaryness"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 25, 1968, San Francisco:

Devotee: Swamiji, is the dream world the real world?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is reflection of the real world. Reflection is real for the time being. This world is also dream, for the time being. Because this body is not permanent, so it is also a dream. A dream for 100 years or 50 years or 70 years, but that dream is 50 minutes. At night we see the dream for 50 minutes, and this dream is 50 years. That's all. It is a question of time. It is also dream. But dream is reality... So long we see it and enjoy it, that is reality. Just like a man in dream he's crying. It is dream. But the effect is there. Reaction is there. In that sense, dream is reality. Reality, temporary reality, flickering reality. Otherwise, it is reality.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They kill the grandfather and have a feast, the cannibals. Yes. That is a great sport, that the grandsons will kill the grandfather and have a feast on his body by toasting.(?) Yes. The same idea is being preached by the communists. They want that all old man of the society, they should be killed. That is one of the theories put forward by the communists. Because they are not producing anything. So just imagine, these things will come gradually. So better to leave this place as soon as possible. Not to come again. That should be our serious attention. The other day the radio man was asking, "Swamiji, how to adjust?" "And there is no adjustment. You have to go out of the scene. There is no adjustment." So he was not very happy. If I would have bluffed him, "Oh, you do this, you do that, you do this humanitarian work, you spread(?) education and give foodstuff." No! There is no adjustment. The only adjustment is quit this place. That is the function of this human form of life. You can get out of this show by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that this is the abode of miseries and that also temporary. Because you can accept any miserable life. That is the spell of māyā.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: They cannot understand that photograph is the reflection of the actual person. There is everything in detail. A movie. Actually, the same man is laughing, walking, dress, everything, but it is all false. That they cannot understand. Therefore the Vaiṣṇavas say they are less intelligent. The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā. Then mithyā means it is a reflection or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false. So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā how can it be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow. Shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fountainhead of all emanation. That is Absolute Truth.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence. Māyā has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: Well, I don't care. I'll leave it up to you then. I'll leave it up to you. You can do what you want.

Prabhupāda: No... You... My... I have explained. He is... As a sannyāsī, he should live everywhere temporarily just like I live temporarily. Aniketa. A sannyāsī should not have a permanent place. Anywhere he goes, temporary. So because you think that his service is required, then he should remain here. Otherwise, as he has accepted sannyāsa order, he should travel, go and preach. And especially nowadays, I cannot go everywhere. He can go, and he can recruit members. He can make propaganda of New Vrindaban to many persons, to the, I mean to say, foundations. As I have suggested, make pamphlet. So he can do outside work very nicely for developing Vṛndāvana.

Hayagrīva: How much of his time do you think should be spent doing this?

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Hayagrīva: Preaching and traveling.

Prabhupāda: He should always preach and travel. Always. There is immense field here. He should convince people that we are developing such centers. And you make a nice literature, picture. You go. He is educated. He is intelligent. He has studied our philosophy. He can go and speak.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: I'll be staying here ...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.

Hayagrīva: ...permanently, temporarily at least, for a while.

Prabhupāda: Then? Why temporarily? You can... As gṛhastha, you can build a small house and stay with your wife and children. You remain the president of this center. That will be nice. Yes. As there are many—in all centers there is one president—similarly, you remain president of this center.

Hayagrīva: Well, what happens when I leave? Then if he's not here and I leave, what happens then?

Prabhupāda: Then the maṭha command, secretary. Not with you, not that all, everyone, is leaving. You may leave sometimes. You want to go to your college, university, like that?

Hayagrīva: Well, I'll be gone every week about half a week for the whole school year. So somebody has to be here to take charge for three days out of the... I'm at least gone three days at least.

Prabhupāda: So then the Paramānanda is there, and he is there. They are not fools. They are also intelligent. They can manage.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very glad to see you. Be happy and make all others happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. That is Vedic idea. Everyone be happy. That is the benediction. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says also the same thing, that let this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement be preached in every village, in every town of the world. People will be happy. That is His foretelling. So any missions, any high ideals, should be preached just to make everyone happy. Because in the material existence, there is no happiness. That is a fact. There cannot be any happiness. This place is not meant for happiness because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the Lord Himself says this is a place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries, this material world. And aśāśvatam, and temporary. Everything is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right. Whatever miserable is there, I'll accept this," that is also, has no value. Even if you accept, nature will not allow you to accept it and remain there. Aśāśvatam. You have to leave. So Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ: (BG 8.15) "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to return back to this miserable condition of life which is not only miserable but temporary." So we should understand that. Nature is so cruel. In America, President Kennedy, he was thought to be the most fortunate man, happy man, young man, was elected President, nice wife, children, honor all over the world—(snaps finger)—within a second, finished. Temporary. Now what is his condition? Where he is? If life is eternal, if living entity is eternal, where he has gone? What he is doing? Is he happy or he is distressed? Or he's born in America or China? Nobody can say. But it is a fact that as living entity, he's eternal, he's existing. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā philosophy. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body the living entity is not destroyed. He is there. That we can understand. Just like in your childhood, you had a small body. That body is no more, but you are existing. So it is natural, when this body will not exist, I will exist in another body. It is not very difficult to understand. So this theory that body is eternal..., soul is eternal and body is temporary, that's a fact. Therefore this life, this present life, is meant for manufacturing the next body. That is Vedic knowledge.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: They're attempting to go with this body. That will be failure. It will be not possible. In every planet the atmosphere, the..., everything is different. So you have to create a different body to go to a particular type of planet. There are millions and thousands of planets. Moon planet is one of them. Kṛṣṇa says,

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām

(BG 9.25)

(chuckling) Mad-yājino: "Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll come to Me." And what is the benefit of going to Kṛṣṇa? He says, mām upetya: "If anyone comes to Me," mam upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), "he does not come back again to this miserable condition." And aśāśvatam, temporary. Why? Samsiddhim paramam gataḥ. Oh, he has attained the highest perfection, to go back to Kṛṣṇa, mad-yājino 'pi mām, "one who comes to Me." So this is the greatest benediction to the human society, to train them to go back to Kṛṣṇa and dance there with Kṛṣṇa in rasa-līlā. You have seen Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā dancing? You have not seen?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although ātmā, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, na sādhu mānye: "You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering. Therefore necessity is now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again, you will have to again accept a body and you'll suffer.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: ...your devatā finished. But your relationship with Kṛṣṇa will never finish-nityo nityānāṁ—because you are nitya, Kṛṣṇa is nitya. That relationship, we have to reestablish that relation. That is the function of the human body. If you are simply busy with this temporary nature, then you are losing time. The temporary relationship will... Just like I came here; now, tomorrow I am going. So, say, for fortnight the relation was there. Now you'll have another relation. Similarly, after this body I do not know what relation, what father, mother, I will get and what relation will be established. What community will be established I do not know. And then I will forget. Now those who are Indian, but suppose in his last birth he was Chinaman. He has forgotten. Now he's fighting for India's cause. If the Chinaman is fighting for China's cause. This is disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). We are ready to serve all the dayitas(?), but eternal servitude is Kṛṣṇa. That we have to establish. Then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Then, after leaving this body, he has no more to accept this material body and create another society, another family, another relationship, another atmosphere. So because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, in Kṛṣṇa society, therefore we are dividing. Suppose one animal is born in India or in America. We don't take him as "my brother. He is also born in the same national." No. He kills it. He gives protection only to the animal with hands and legs, not to the animals who are four-legged. Because he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore his knowledge is imperfect. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are fighting between the different religions because there is no Kṛṣṇa religion, no eternal religion, temporary religion. "I am Christian," "I am Hindu ," "I am Muslim." Therefore, to solve all the problems the Kṛṣṇa consciousness: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Take to Kṛṣṇa; everything will be solved. So they are reading Bhagavad-gītā but they do not know this. Therefore we have to preach.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Now one thing... The other day I was speaking to some... Where I was? In Bombay, I think, I was speaking some respectable gentlemen that "Kṛṣṇa says:

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

(BG 9.32)

Kṛṣṇa says, 'Even those who are low-born, pāpa-yoni—the striya, vaiśya and śūdra, they are also included—but by accepting Me, accepting my shelter, they are also elevated to the transcendental position.' Now, why the higher class of Hindu society, they neglected this injunction of Bhagavad-gītā? Suppose one is pāpa-yoni. Kṛṣṇa says that 'They can be elevated to the transcendental position if they accept Me.' Why this propaganda was not done by the higher class people so that the so-called pāpa-yoni could be elevated? Why you rejected them? The result was that the Mohammedans... Instead of accepting them, you rejected them, and they have partitioned, and they have gone away, and they have become eternal enemy of India." You see? So this is the first time that we are trying to elevate to the highest position of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even one is in the pāpa-yoni. It doesn't matter because soul is pure. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The Vedas says, "The soul is untouched by any material contamination." Simply, temporarily, he is covered. This covering should be opened. Then he becomes pure. That is the mission of human life, to uncover ourselves from this material envelopment and come to the spiritual understanding, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Life is perfect.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: I have two sons. I have three sons..., two sons, two daughters.

Mohsin Hassan: They were, I was told, associated with Gandhi. What's your relation with Mahatma Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: Gandhi, in my young age I was Nationalist, so I followed Gandhi. I was interested. Later on, when I met my spiritual master, I became disinterested with this temporary, ephemeral things. So this is permanent. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is permanent. It is very long(?) (non?) subject matter. We are simply dreaming. All these activities are just like at night we dream, but they are all false. Whatever you dream at night, they're not facts; they're false. Similarly, these are also daydreams, these activities. Daydream. They're also false. The only thing what we can actually take benefit out of it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. It will take some time. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Guest (2): But suppose that was a beautiful landscape on its own, just the landscape, then it's worthless?

Revatīnandana: Limited and temporary enjoyment only. Limited and temporary enjoyment.

Guest (2): But you accept that the temporary enjoyment is there, would you?

Revatīnandana: Yes. And limited and temporary. It's called capala sukha, flickering.

Prabhupāda: Now, even there was no God's picture, one who is God conscious, he can see in the natural scenery presentation, he can see, "Oh, how God is artistic. How he has manufactured this flower, how he has painted, how He has made this tree." So that is higher intelligence. That is higher intelligence. Because without God, there can be nothing existing. So one has to learn how to see God in everything. That is another thing. That is higher status. Yes. But in the lower status of God consciousness one is advised that you should not see anything without God. But in the higher status, there is nothing in the world which is without God. But we should not imitate the higher status of life in the lower status of our position. Otherwise, one who has learned about God, he can see God in this flower. Actually, how God's hand has worked out this nice flower. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just like I am drinking water. In the taste of the water I'll see God. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." And actually, that taste cannot be created by man. The taste in the water, that is God's gift. So as soon as I taste the water, immediately I should remember, "Oh, here is God."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: This is the problem of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that people are becoming more and more Godless. And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no need to make this propaganda all over the world. But actually, the saintly persons have concern. Just like the other day I told you, Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned that these rascals for temporary so-called... (break) ...people are engaged unnecessarily to work very hard day and night, the capitalist, the worker. Big, big factory, iron factory, in so many factories, unnecessarily. So Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned. He was living, his father was a demon, in the demonic state. So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way. So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar(?), taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard. In your country, five thousand drunkard priests were consolidated in a hospital for treatment. They're getting money. So there is possibility, we are opening temples, public is contributing. But if we become easy-goer, "Now money is coming, let us eat sumptuously and eat, eat and sleep, and if possible drink also." But, of course, we are restricting. But naturally when one man becomes idle, idle brain is the devil's workshop. So if he can get... Just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: ...does he still get sick?

Prabhupāda: No. Even if he gets sick, that is very temporary. Just like this fan is moving. If you disconnect with the electric power, then the fan will move for a moment. That movement is not due to the electric current. That is force. What is called physically, this...

Śyāmasundara: Momentum.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: Momentum.

Prabhupāda: Momentum. But as soon as he stops, no more movement. Similarly, a devotee who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, even he's found that he's suffering from material consequences, that is temporary. Therefore a devotee does not take any material miseries as misery. He takes as Kṛṣṇa's, God's, mercy.

Bob: But what about a perfected soul, a devotee, a pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: Perfected soul means twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfection. Transcendental position. Perfection means to be engaged in his original consciousness. That is perfection. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Anyone who comes to Me, that is the..." Saṁsiddhiḥ labhate param. Saṁsiddhi. Perfection, complete perfection. Saṁsiddhi. Siddhi and saṁsiddhi. Siddhi is perfection. That is Brahman realization. And saṁsiddhi means devotion, after Brahman realization.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Bhūrijana: South China Morning Paper.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years. But they do not... There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life. One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I'll request you all, ladies and gentlemen present here. Sindhis are generally opulent and religious also, I know. Formerly, when some of our Godbrothers were going to preach in Karachi, they received very well. Now it is Pakistan. Otherwise all Sindhis, they have a special reception for saintly persons. They are religious persons. So you are all here. I think you should open a very nice center for preaching this gospel. And we have no discrimination. We accept anyone because we do not see the outward body. Just a gentleman is not interested with the outward dress, he is interested with the person he talks. Similarly, we are interested to see every person as spirit soul. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita means learned. Sama-darśinaḥ.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.

Guest (2): Yes, but what I'm trying to get at is that it seems to me that if you carefully look at the world history during the past...

Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.

Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.

Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Rāvaṇa became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sītā. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.

Guest (2): Yes but people say that...

Prabhupāda: People say, that is other... You see the fact. Nobody is powerful; nobody can exist here. For the temporary, say for some years, you may be so-called powerful but it is not powerful. We are concerned with eternal life. We are not interested in the so-called power for a few days. That is not our aim.

Guest (2): Yes, but if we say that everything is destined, like the moment your body is manufactured and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): ...everything is destined, then we are probably as well destined to be Kṛṣṇa conscious or to be non-Kṛṣṇa conscious, you know.

Prabhupāda: No. That destiny can change. Śāstra says... Destined means so far you're... Suppose you are to get, say, one thousand dollars per month. That you'll get. You try for it or don't try for it, you'll get. Therefore we should not waste our time for getting one thousand dollars. We should utilize the time for developing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: That is the actual fact. One who does not know about God, what is the value of his knowledge?

Ian Polsen: What you say about scientists is also true of Western philosophers...

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ian Polsen: ...who consider...

Prabhupāda: That is, that is temporary. Suppose a scientist has discovered this nice lamp. So I give him credit, but I can do without this lamp. It is not very necessary. (laughter)

Indian: The modern science is medicine.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian: Medical science.

Prabhupāda: What medical science? Can they stop disease? That is the problem. If they can stop disease then I can accept that they know something. What is their...

Devotee: In India the doctors, simply by feeling your pulse they know everything that's wrong with you.

Prabhupāda: No. Even that. No physician can stop disease. He can suggest, "This is very nice medicine," but my problem is, "Why shall I become diseased?" That is my problem.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: ...they're only here temporarily. They're just passing through. So it's very difficult, I know, but still we have to try to train somehow...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we cannot establish very big establishment. Because they come like a tourist.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Devotee (2): If the temple is constructed, it would have to be more rigidly controlled. It would have to be managed by people that by their preaching and by their Kṛṣṇa consciousness can make it so that the people who come and stay in that temple will want to practice bhakti. It can't be a negative (indistinct) thing. The negative motivation is not going to keep a person.

Prabhupāda: Now, such camps, because you are not established, so, under the circumstances, what is to be done? To reduce our devotees?

Śyāmasundara: We have our base in Calcutta, we have our base in Bombay, those two places.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Śyāmasundara: Those are important cities in the world.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, as long as our temple is not constructed, we are minimized. So therefore automatically there is no question of negotiating (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without the proper guidance...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything requires guidance. You are working in the laboratory under guidance. Similarly, everything requires guidance. Just like these small birds. First of all, they learn with the mother. The mother goes and they go. The mother come back, they come back. So guidance. Nature's way, guidance. And when they become little habituated, then without mother, they can do their business. That guidance is there everywhere. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause—break) ...kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). "Anyone who reaches Me, he does not come back to this material world full of miseries and temporary life." That means anyone who goes back to home, back to Godhead, there is no misery, there is no temporary life. It must be the opposite. Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām... That is highest perfection. Paramām. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. Every... all this scientific research is going on for perfection. They say the world is imperfect. That's, that is a fact. Imperfect. Imperfect means here you cannot get happiness and cannot live permanently. This is imperfection. That they do not know. That question they set aside. The problem, if you say to the scientist: "What you have done for the human society to live eternally in perfect happiness?" What is their answer?

Brahmānanda: They do just the opposite. They accelerate the death and they create more problems.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were talking about the temporary existence of the material body.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Just like if you go into the sea and if you want to be comfortable. This is foolishness. You cannot be. You are animal of land. If you are put into the water, however, expert swimmer you may be, you'll not be comfortable. That's not possible. So you are spirit soul. You cannot be comfortable in the material world. You can struggle, but that is not possible. And they are simply giving bluff, "In future, we shall, in future." This is rascaldom. They don't admit that it is not possible. They simply give bluff: "In future..." You see. "In future, it will be," we can also accept that, provided you have taken the proper means. But where is your future if you are wrongly directed? A child's future is bright when we see that he's being educated, he's going to school. But when he's playing on the street, where is his future? He has no future. He's wasting his time.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Anitya is temporary, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, anitya means temporary. You cannot stay here. That they do not understand. They're making research, making research. And if we ask them: "What you are doing?" "For the next generation, future." And what about your, your...? You're going to be a tree next life. What you'll do with your next generation? But he's ass. He does not know. He s going to stand before that skyscraper building, a tree, for ten thousand years, and he's making: dum dum dum. Therefore he's an ass. He does not know where he's going. And he's making provision for the next generation. What is the next generation? If there is no petrol, what you'll do, next generation? And how the next generation will help you? You are going to be a dog, cat or tree. So next generation, how he'll help you? Jībake karaye gādhā. Therefore he's an ass. He does not know his personal interest. And making research work. What research work? Simply śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply laboring, what is called? Labor of love? Or what is that?

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the, the material world itself is very temporary.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The material world itself is temporary. So the scientists still make it much more temporary?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By investing, by, by finding out the different ways of..., they're called conveniences. So by producing these things makes much more comfortable.

Prabhupāda: Easier. Easier to die. They have invented the atomic. Very easy to kill. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa ... (pause) But, in, despite all these disadvantages, if the scientists bring in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then that is success. It will be success. The sea, without waves, does not look well. Without waves, when the sea's calm and quiet, it does not look well. What do you think? Eh?

Karandhara: It does not look well?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now with waves it looks beautiful.

Karandhara: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is also not guaranteed. Why I am taking so much trouble? They are so foolish persons. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā. This so-called scientific education means people become more attracted with this temporary world and he works very hard, just like an ass. Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses." Although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass. So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say, "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they. But they have no idea of the next life. (pause) Again, Switzerland.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So making these houses, temporary houses, is directed by Him.

Prabhupāda: No. Directed by māyā. Prakṛteḥ, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Is it dry or wet? (the ground)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not very wet, just a little wet.

Prabhupāda: He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am head of the institution. I have nothing to do. I say, "Karandhara, do it." Immediately does. I say you, do it, immediately... I say him. I have got so many secretaries. I will ask him. Similarly, why God will create.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a direction.

Prabhupāda: Direction, yes. That is said, mayādhyakṣena prakṛtiḥ: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction." So if it is possible for a common man like me, how much it is possible for God? That we have to understand. Now I want to go to India, London. Now everything arrangement is made. I can go immediately. So similarly, if God wants to do something, why He has to do something? Everything, as soon as He desires, everything is there. He wants "Let there be material creation." There is, immediately. This is God. We are thinking in my terms. "Oh, such a huge universe! How a person can create? Where he got this tool? Where he's got the hammer? And how he constructed it?" I am thinking like that. Because I am limited, I am thinking in my limited way. So I am denying, "There is no God." Therefore we have to first of all understand acintya, inconceivable power. Then we can understand God. If I think, "God may be..." That kūpa-maṇḍūka, that frog is thinking, "It may be little bigger than this, little bigger than this." So how you can understand Atlantic Ocean within the well? So these rascals are all frogs.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They accept one energy. We accept also that. But they, defect is they are beginning from the material. That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light. Where the light is not visible that is called darkness. This is not the nature of the sun, this covering, cloudy nature. That is not the... The nature of sun is light, but by the energy of the sun another thing is temporary created which is called mist or darkness. This is temporary. This is not permanent nature. Therefore material nature is temporary and spiritual nature is permanent. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to get out of this temporary nature and go to the spiritual nature, permanent nature. Nobody wants also this temporary nature. Nobody likes this cloudy atmosphere.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The cloudiness is created from the superior energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Creator is one. It is always superior. Whatever is created, that is created by Him. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the creator of everything." So bad or good, everything. Bad and good, that is your creation. Kṛṣṇa's creation everything good. God is good. What you think bad, for God is good. Therefore we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He's doing something. In our consciousness it is bad, but we do not know that for him there is no such thing as good and bad. That we do not know. Kṛṣṇa is marrying 16,000 wives, somebody's criticizing, "Oh, He's so much fond of women." But we do not see the other side. He has got the power to expand Himself into 16,000 forms.

Paramahaṁsa: If this mist of material nature is temporary, then why bother to disentangle oneself from something transitory?

Prabhupāda: Why do you take covering? Does man walk naked?

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: Why do you take covering? You know everything will be cleared after few hours. Why do you cover?

Paramahaṁsa: It is dangerous now.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, why do you take this step to avoid this?

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: It's uncomfortable. It's not natural.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Māyāvāda theory; that everything will uncover automatically, why do you bother? That is nonsense.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Call Pradyumna.

Student (1): Because I can't completely control my mind and senses.

Revatīnandana: The thing that is covered when we are always acting on the sensual platform, agitated in the mind, is we do not experience our self, our eternal self, which doesn't change. We become locked on the temporary platform.

Student (1): In normal life, you mean? Most people, you're talking about.

Revatīnandana: Yes. Because all of our attention is lodged in the mind and the senses, and we are lost to ourselves, so any kind of self-realization process means that you have to control the mind and senses or you cannot be self-situated. Beyond being situated in the self, there may be more, but that's the first point. That's the basic point of yoga.

Student (2): Where does Kṛṣṇa fit into it? Where does Kṛṣṇa fit into the yoga?

Revatīnandana: He wants to know... If being self-situated is one thing, then where does Kṛṣṇa enter into the system? That's his question.

Prabhupāda: Self-situated. When you are self-situated... Just like in the water you are taking bath in a pool. Something has fallen on the water. Suppose your key has fallen. Now you'll have to find out. You are just trying to settle up the water and see where is the key. So when your mind and senses are controlled, then you can talk of Kṛṣṇa. Before that you cannot talk. Because Kṛṣṇa is missing, with uncontrolled mind, senses, you cannot capture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. The same example. When the water is agitated, you cannot see where your things have fallen. You have to wait to make the water calm and quiet. Then you'll see, "Here is my key."

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Our description of healthy life, healthy life is to become God conscious. That is healthy life. Otherwise do you think that an animal like elephant, very strong, does it mean that it is healthy? No.

Father Tanner: No, I would say an elephant can be healthy, my body can be healthy.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is temporary. Everyone is subjected to death. So you may be very strong, healthy, but you cannot avoid death.

Father Tanner: No, but then, then...

Prabhupāda: So, so therefore, ultimately, you become so-called healthy or not healthy, you'll die. That is the fact. So we do not want that kind of healthy life. Our proposition is that we go back to home back to Godhead and remain with God, eternally enjoying blissful life. This is our healthy life.

Father Tanner: I, I accept these principles, but, you know, the words, I would say you could be healthy, but, you know, when you go to God at the end, this isn't on your physical healthiness.

Prabhupāda: No.

Father Tanner: This is on your spiritual self.

Prabhupāda: When you go to God, you go in your spiritual body.

Father Tanner: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: According to Vedānta philosophy, every living entity is searching after delight. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, a living entity is delightful, but he has been covered by this temporary material covering, and therefore his delightness is perverted. So our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, is that paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If you give him better delight, then he can give up this inferior delight of material enjoyment. Otherwise, simply by instructing that "You give up this," it is difficult.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's right. You are... One has to... (Sanskrit or Pali:) Śambhuḥ pāpas cākāraṇa, kuśalasya upasampada sac citto parayodapanam etaṁ buddham anuśāsana. (?) Abstain from the unwholesome, the source of all our problems and suffering, lobha, doṣa, moha. Kuśalasya upasampada. Practice the virtues, that is when the mind is rooted in alobha, that is nongreed, liberality, including hospitality; adoṣa, nonhatred, evil, all-loving kindness; amoha opanya (?) wisdom. And why? When one is on the noble, eight-fold path-right understanding, right thinking, right speech, right bodily action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration—there is that oozing joy and delight. And that is the finest substitute. Men, because of avidyā, have not tasted delight. Because of his weakness, they thought mokṣa,... (knock on door)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: "No person except He's like me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the Vedic scripture says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His person is different. Sac-cid-ānanda. That is not exactly with our personality. This is material. This is temporary personality. Now I am man. Next time I may become dog, Next time become demigod. It is changing. It is not eternal, sat. So God is not like that. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He does not come here being forced by the material energy. He comes by His spiritual energy. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. Find out this. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Therefore, as soon as He's accepted as ordinary man, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). He does not know what is the power behind that. Read it.

Pradyumna: Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya...

Prabhupāda: Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...why not they? National. National means a living entity born in particular country. So at the present moment, the national means only human being. The animals are not nationals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. So this kind of sinful activities are going on. Therefore renunciation means to give up these sinful activities. That is real renunciation. Otherwise, you cannot renounce anything. You have to live. And that is allowed at the cost of God. Everything belongs to God. You are son of God. So you live. But don't encroach... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is the instruction of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So you have got the right to enjoy what is allotted for you. Don't encroach upon others' right. This is renunciation. But they are encroaching upon others' right. Especially the human society. And that is the cause of all troubles. Because they have no God consciousness, they have no sense about God, and there is no sense about next life... What is your opinion about life after death?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: My opinion is that an individual human being is, in life in this world, is temporarily separated from the whole of spiritual reality, and after death we rejoin the reality that we are separated from.

Prabhupāda: That is Christian idea.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. After death... But so far I know, Christian there is consideration of hell and heaven.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Somebody is going to hell, somebody's going to heaven. Is it not? After death?

Devotee: Yes, I think so.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We Vaiṣṇavas, why should I say jagan mithyā? If God is true, what is created by Him, that is also true. Because Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Me, "My." So why should I take Kṛṣṇa's things as false? If Kṛṣṇa is true, His things are also true. So we don't take that this material world is false. We don't say. Our philosophy is that this material world may be temporary, but because it has connection with Kṛṣṇa, it can be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. That is karma-yoga, bhakti-yoga. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Just like here is a microphone in the tape recorder. Now it is material. And if we say "No, no, we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we cannot touch this material thing." We don't say that. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has connection with Kṛṣṇa, so why shall I call it as material? Parityāga. This is condemned by Rūpa Gosvāmī,

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

vairāgyaṁ phalgu kathyate

The mumukṣu, the Shankarites, they are after salvation. They give up this world.

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Devotee (2): "After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection."

Prabhupāda: This is the highest perfection. We have to go to Kṛṣṇa.

Woman: So when you have had your suffering in various forms and through various lives, you then reach the...

Prabhupāda: No, not that.

Woman: Not that. Not...

Prabhupāda: Not that.

Woman: Not that.

Prabhupāda: You have to prepare yourself to go there. Not that because you have suffered so much, automatically you will go there.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, metaphysics, not...

Cardinal Danielou: It is, it is, it is the idea that all life is parcel of the life of God. You know of this is to us, difficult to admit. We can, there is a very great difference between the life of man who is really called to partake the life of God, and the animal life, who is (French)

Yogeśvara: Temporary.

Cardinal Danielou: No. Without, without, impermanent. Life of man is permanent.

Prabhupāda: That, that, that difference is due to development of consciousness. The human body, human body, you get developed consciousness. Just like this tree. It is also a living entity, but it's consciousness is not yet fructified. If you cut the tree, it does not resist. But it resists in a very small degree. That is proved by the scientists. The Sir Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he's also a very great scientist. He has made machine: when you cut the tree, it feels and it is recorded in the machine.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: And for the animals we can see, when one kills the animals, it resists, it cries, it makes great sound, horrible. So it is the question of development of consciousness. But the, a soul is there.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like...

David Lawrence: You know the manifestations obviously of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and kīrtana and so on. Seems to be obviously you regard as a scurrilous or wrong-headed or a dull-headed field of people who regard His manifestations of God consciousness as verging on madness, or temporary madness. What would you say about that. Obviously you would reject it.

Prabhupāda: When a man is himself mad, he'll find others mad.

David Lawrence: Yes, true. (laughter) Yes, he sees a reflection of himself.

Prabhupāda: If one is himself deaf, he'll think others are deaf. So ātmavat manyate jagat, everyone thinks the whole world is like him. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa also like him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). That is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā that "These rascals, because I come in human form to benefit them, they take Me as human being." That is mentioned. But these things are taken like that by the mūḍhas. Mūḍhas means rascals, asses.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): Some devotees want the body again and again...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee... Because people want perfection. But their perfection is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Their perfection is not to stop this body. But the... Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he's not living in this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Anyone who's engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he's transcendental to these material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). (break) ...and then, after leaving this body, you are not going to accept any material body. And as soon as you accept a material body, you are under pains and pleasure. No pleasure, simply pains. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are trying to avoid pains. But it is not possible. The real pain, birth, death, old age and disease, that remains. What is the use of temporary getting some so-called pleasure?

Guest (3): At what stage could one say that a person is Kṛṣṇa conscious? There must be a beginning stage...

Prabhupāda: He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): And only then he's Kṛṣṇa conscious person?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has no other business than Kṛṣṇa's business.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we have no experience below zero degrees. But in Europe, America, there is places. In Russia also, below fifty degrees. But they do not stop their business. They know that "Winter season has come. It will go away again." So devotees, even they are in distressed condition, they know, "It has come due to my bad activities in the past. It will go away. Let me suffer and finish it." Just like if you become, all of a sudden, infected with some disease. So what? You'll go mad? No. You know that "I have infected this disease. Let me suffer a few days. It will go away. That's all." This is the mentality of the devotees. They are not disturbed. And if he's not disturbed, then he's fit for becoming liberated.

yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha

sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate

And our aim is amṛtatva, how to become immortal. That is our aim of life. So we have to achieve that goal of life. We should not be disturbed with this temporary distress and pleasure. That is called tapasya.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, this is saṁsiddhiṁ paramām, highest perfection. What is the translation?

Pradyumna: After attaining Me, the great souls who are yogis in devotion never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

Prabhupāda: That is the highest perfection. Nāpnuvanti, what is that?

Pradyumna: Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, mahātmānaḥ. This mahātmānaḥ means devotees of Lord. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. Mahātmā means... Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmās, they are under the protection of spiritual energy, and what is the sign? That bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ. Find out this verse, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Just like we are under the material energy. This is called... This is also also daivī-prakṛti, but it is inferior. Parā-prakṛti and aparā-prakṛti. That is described. That real daivī-prakṛti is transcendental. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like heat and light. They are different energies of the fire. But heat or light, light is superior than the heat. Both of them coming from the same source. Heat and light. Just like sun. The heat and light. But we are more concerned with the light, sunlight. Similarly, the spiritual world and the material world, both of them are creation or emanation, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, from God. But the light energy is more perfect. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Śrutakīrti: "Purport: As far as the duties of mankind are concerned. There are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound, not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly Citraketu also fell down due to his offense..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore we forbid to take to the karmī's life. Because at the time of death, if he remains a karmī, then he'll have to take birth as a karmī. That is the risk. So this regulated life, holding class, chanting, that will not make us fall down. That is essential. It is essential, regulate, to follow the regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds, holding class. You can do anything, but this will keep us alive to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. If you neglect that, then that is very risky. Even if you get next life birth in a rich man's family, that is not guarantee. Because generally, rich man's sons, they go astray. They get money for nothing and they want to squander it. And material world, if you have got money, so many bad associates will come and help you to squander your money and spoil your life. Because you have got money, then so many friends will come. As soon as you have no money, nobody will come. Even your wife, children will not come. Therefore hariṣye tad dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Kṛṣṇa, first of all, takes away the money, makes him poor so that everyone will neglect him, and because he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll take Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have no other alternative. Please give me protection." That is also another Kṛṣṇa's policy, special favor, that "This man wanted Me. Now he's going astray. All right. That's all right.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Guest: (laughs) But not all the time.

Prabhupāda: No, no I say.... Not all the time because it is material, this is material. They cannot do all the time because this is temporary. You can work as a stock exchange broker for a few hours then it will be havoc(?). But it is not like that. If you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra 24 hours, you'll never be worried. You'll never be tired. That is the difference between material and spiritual activities. Just like these boys they are working day and night (indistinct). I do not pay them. They are all qualified. Suppose if one wanted to keep a servant like him, how much he will have to pay? They are doing for nothing. Rather if I become angry they become afraid. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So everybody should develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Śrīla Prabhupāda gets into car) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only remedy. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam... (CC Adi 17.21). (break) And this advancement of material civilization means entrapping the entrapped. The living entity is already entrapped, and he is allured by farther entrapment. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. Jaḍa-vidyā, material advancement of civilization, means expanding the influence of māyā. Why? Now anitya saṁsāra, cannot live here. You have to give up this place. But still, you are thinking to make it a permanent settlement. That is not possible. Everyone knows. He will not be allowed to stay. But still insisting, gorgeous arrangement, how we can be, how we can become immortal. The scientists bluffing, "Yes, you will become immortal. We are finding out the means." But he will die. That means he is ass. He is allured by these false words. Therefore he is ass. Jībake karaye gādhā. This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song. Anitya saṁsāra, this temporary world, he is attracted by this temporary. He cannot live here, he cannot stay here, he cannot enjoy here. That's a fact. But he is being allured. That means he is becoming more and more ass. Ass because they are believing still, "No, by scientific method, we shall do that, we shall do that. We shall cure all diseases. We shall live for good. There will be no more death. And we are happy." That means you are becoming... This material advancement of knowledge means you are becoming more and more asses. (break) (end)

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They must neglect because foolish, they cannot solve. They're rascal. They cannot solve. They're simply pleased with some what is called, temporary success. That's all. The ultimate success is not the... Professor Einstein, he was very big scientist but he could not solve his death. He was to die.

Hṛdayānanda: Boy! That's amazing.

Prabhupāda: He has to die. He could not solve his death and he's a big scientist. What kind of scientist is that?

Hṛdayānanda: Boy!

Prabhupāda: The real problem remain unsolved.

Devotee: ...death is blindness.

Prabhupāda: Ha? No. That is rascaldom. They do not see the real problem. Neither they're able to solve it. They're simply happy by some... Just like child. The child, he wants to play whole day long. He does not care. Like that. This human life is meant for making a perfect solution of all problems. That they do not care. There is some temporary benefit. They're very much busy and known as scientist.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Manorathena asati dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation, you will remain on this asati, in this temporary field. Asat means "which will not exist." Anything in this material world, you take, that will not exist. Anywhere man can say. The skyscraper building is constructed, but everyone knows that it will not exist. Some day it will fall down. Everyone knows. It will never exist. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "If you think that by combination of matter, life has come, so life was not there before the combination. And this combination will dismantle. So life, there will be no more life. So why these three period you are lamenting? There is life." Because according to this theory—"The combination of matter makes life"—so before combination there was no life, and the combination dismantled, there is no life. So beginning and end no life. Why you are lamenting in the middle? Very good reasoning. Just see. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya, that illusory, illusory happiness. Māyā-sukhāya. And for that reason, they are making huge, gorgeous arrangement and working day and night, which will be zero. It has begun from zero and it will end into zero. In the middle they are busy. Just see. Therefore vimūḍhān.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: The bug is also there. The mosquito is also there. The leader is also there. So, so many bodies, they are in the same room, but the enjoyment is not the same. Leaser's enjoyment is not exactly like the occupier of the room.

Nitāi: So they say that "Because life is temporary, let's live it up."

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is foolish, another foolishness. That is... "You are beating me with your shoes. That's all right, it is temporary. That's all right. Let me go on suffering this." So that is foolishness. He does not think that "Why I have been subjected to be beaten by shoes, insult? All right, I do not mind. It is temporary." That is foolishness.

Nitāi: Well, they think that instead of being beaten that they're having fun, that it's pleasurable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless he's...

Nitāi: They think, "Let us have all the pleasure we can."

Prabhupāda: That is another māyā's illusion. Unless he thinks it is pleasurable, how he can tolerate? Just like the pig, eating stool. Everyone is thinking, "Aoww", but unless he thinks pleasurable, how he can eat? That is another concession of māyā. Praksepātmikā, āvaraṇātmikā. He's covered by illusion. He is accepting the most abominable thing, but he's thinking, "I'm enjoying." This is called māyā.

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Kṛṣṇa is best. That's all. And whatever is done for Kṛṣṇa, that is best. That's all. We have got a standard; therefore we are satisfied. "Even in distressed condition, because Kṛṣṇa has given me distress, so-called distress, it is not distress. So this is all right." Because here, distress or happiness, they are simply mental concoction. Dvaite bhadra... I am in the material existence—that is my distress. That distress has to be removed, not this temporary distress or happiness. (japa)

Satsvarūpa: But when we try to help people in that way, they don't care for our help.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Satsvarūpa: We try to give people that. They don't want that; they want temporary help.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are mad. Still, we have to do that. Madmen does not, he doesn't think that "I require anyone's help." But still, the father, mother, guardian, government, gives him help. We are not dependent on their decision; we are dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī: Vaiṣṇava is unhappy seeing others unhappy. Otherwise, they have no unhappiness. They are unhappy seeing that "This rascal is unnecessarily suffering." That is unhappiness of Vaiṣṇava. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I have no, any problem, but I'm simply thinking of these rascals, that for some temporary happiness they make so gorgeous arrangement, and forgotten their real business." Just like all these... What is this city? At any moment, it will be finished, but... Just like they're flying, fleeing some other place, "America will be destroyed." So why they have spoiled so much energy? They do not know where to apply the energy for real benefit. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called as mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, duṣkṛtina: showing very good merit for this big, big building, big, big road... Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But duṣkṛti. Duṣkṛti means for useless purpose, real purpose missing. They have no information of the soul within the body; simply they are engaged in the bodily activities. The soul is neglected.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: The Vaiṣṇavas before...

Prabhupāda: No, other Vaiṣṇavas. But... The on... This Vaiṣṇava party, they stress on Bāla-Kṛṣṇa, Gopāla. We also, we have got our Gopāla, as Mādhavendra Purī installed a Gopāla. That Gopāla is now worshiped, Nāthavara (?), by the Vallabha-sampradāya. That is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Deity. It is admitted in the court. (break) ...the modern civilization is that they do not know that this, there is transmigration of the soul, and this constant change of body is not very good. They do not know anything. Neither they do know that there is change of body. Neither they feel that "The constant change of body is not very good. If there is any remedy?" These rascals, they do not find the final remedy. They are busy with the temporary problems. Real problem they set aside. (break) ...simply being bewildered by the three guṇas, sattva-rajo-tamo-guṇa, they do not know the ultimate goal is Kṛṣṇa. They do not know it. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: It's better this way.

Jayapatākā: Let's go down this side, this way.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: (break) ...body when it's old and wears out, and yet they're spending all their energy...

Prabhupāda: No, he desires. He creates his body. Just like the, sometimes the Mohammedans, they think that tiger is the best life. Sera. Sera. Wa (?) sera haya. Means to become a tiger is the perfection of..." You become sera. That's all. Kṛṣṇa gives... He is within the heart. "All right, I'll give you chance. Become a sera." But when he becomes sera, he does not eat for months. You'll never find a sera very fatty. Because he cannot eat. Every animal knows, "There is a tiger." They avoid. By chance, he can hunt out.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (1): Worship should go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we have temporary situated mandira in the same building. We cannot stop our worship. That is not possible. Because one cannot go upon the mandira, because the Lord is now being worshiped within the residence, it does not mean we can stop His worship. Worship must continue in any condition, apratihatā, without being impeded by any rules and regulations. This is called rāga-mārga. Vidhi-mārga, and there is rāga-mārga. Vidhi-mārga means under rules and regulations, and rāga-mārga means out of love. That is another thing. There is another instance. Govinda was personal servant of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So after His dinner, Govinda used to give Him massage on the leg. So one day Caitanya Mahāprabhu fell down on the ground and began to sleep on the door. So Govinda was to give massage to His leg. So he crossed Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and began to...

Guest (1): Walk.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (1): It is temporary...

Prabhupāda: You have yet to see what is temple. "Temple will be constructed. This is not temple." I wanted to stay in the dharmaśālā of Tīrtha Mahārāja, to construct the temple. I requested him that "Some of my men will stay in the dharmaśālā." He refused. Then how can I construct temple? Therefore I have first constructed residential quarters. And unless my men live here, how can I construct temple? So this is residential quarter. This is not the temple. The temple has yet to be done. So suppose we have no regularly constructed temple, do you think we shall give up worship of the Lord?

Guest (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Guest (1): We must continue it.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Because there is no temple... Bhavānanda, you are understanding?

Bhavānanda: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So study this institution.

Viṣṇujana: Thirty years now.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Thirty years they are struggling for United Nations, big, big expenditure, so many humbug, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, humbug program, and no result. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking, I am, only for these rascals. They're making humbug program, but there is no action. And for temporary, so-called happiness, without God consciousness. I am simply thinking of them. Otherwise, personally, I have no problem." This was spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja to Nṛsiṁha-deva. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). (break) ...business has become like Prahlāda Mahārāja. We can chant anywhere. That's all right. Kṛṣṇa will provide everything. We have no business to do. But we have to take them because we are sympathizer, that so many people are being killed by this modern civilization. They had the opportunity to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by the set-up of this rascal civilization, they are being killed spiritually.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I, I say you. How, how the jīvas can be anitya?

Dr. Patel: No, it cannot be.

Prabhupāda: Then nitya.

Dr. Patel: No, they mean, anitya means all the matter. Nitya in the matter.

Guest (1): Temporary, effervescent.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Dr. Patel: Nitya in the matter, in the form of...

Prabhupāda: As soon as they say anitya, then they are duality. There is no oneness.

Dr. Patel: So I have read both the type of acclamation (?), nitya and anitya.

Prabhupāda: No, then... One who says anitya... Anitya...

Dr. Patel: Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).

Prabhupāda: Yes!

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): But self-discipline alone is... nobody.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the plan. And now no sanction of temple. That was the plea, that "It is temporary. It should be broken." And when we asked for permanent approval, "No sanction." This is clear.

Dr. Patel: Have you got the... Have you received the, renewed the temporary permit.

Girirāja: Well, we've applied.

Prabhupāda: Every year we have to apply.

Dr. Patel: Yes, every year it should be applied.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Dr. Patel: That is the law. I give this warning.

Prabhupāda: That is the law of breaking temple. And when we want, that is the law, "No sanction." (Hindi) This is our position. If we go forward, then we are culprit. And if we remain backward, then we are culprit. Both ways.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa... That is siddha. That is siddha. All rascals. This is siddha. Api cet sudurācāraḥ. Because he's sticking to this principle, that "Kṛṣṇa is my everything," sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). That is sādhu (break) ...real things are not... And, and the next verse says, śaśvad bhavati dharmātmā. Because he has taken to this principle, other good qualities will soon come there. Don't bother. But first thing is that he has taken that "Kṛṣṇa is my life." Ananya-bhāk. Then everything will come. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). This is wanted. That is siddhi. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ.

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

(BG 8.15)

This is... One who has captured Kṛṣṇa, he has got siddhi. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. The highest perfection he has attained. That is wanted. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... If... One may be reluctant to sex life for a few days. Then again he'll do that. Because he has no shelter. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param... Even they go to the Brahmaloka, they come down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param. Kṛcchra, very severe austerities. They rise up to the Brāhmaṇaḥ padavī (?), and again fall down. Because they have no shelter. So all these siddhis are simply temporary. It has no meaning. It has no value. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So these siddhas will take many, many births to come to the point of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Svapna, yes.

Dr. Patel: But that does not work in deep sleep.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: In deep sleep it does not work, no?

Prabhupāda: This sleep means temporary. Again the subtle mind, intelligence, come back. So death means no more coming back. It goes elsewhere. That is death. Is it clear? Eh?

Lilavati: How is it possible to forget?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Lilavati: The subtle body...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you forget. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jayo. You forget. When you dream, you forget that you have got this gross body and you are the father of such and such or mother of such and such.

Dr. Patel: Because this is all due to mind only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind, mind forgets. The subtle body works. Similarly, we are dying daily. That is also death.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Girirāja: "Similarly, a living entity may be very careful and fearful in the matter of executing his duties, but it is still very difficult for him to know what type of body he is going to get in the next life. Mahārāja Bharata was very faithfully executing the duties of self-realization, but by chance he contacted temporary affection for a deer, and he had to accept his next life in the body of a deer." (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not liberal. He was truthful. He used to bring all the sons as soon as born to Kaṁsa, and he was killing.

Girirāja: "Kaṁsa knew the value of Vasudeva's word of honor and he was convinced by his arguments. For the time being he desisted from the heinous killing of his sister. Thus Vasudeva was pleased and praised the decision of Kaṁsa. In this way he returned to his home. After due course of time Vasudeva and Devakī gave birth to eight male children as well as..." (break)

Prabhupāda: Demons are known as sura-dviṣām, sura-dviṣām, those who are envious of the demigods, sura-dvisa. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). This word is used in the Bhāgavata: "just to cheat the demons," sammohāya sura-dviṣām. (break) That is the instruction of Nārada. You see? Then?

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): Exactly. I wanted to ask you about Kṛṣṇa in the heart. Could you tell us something about His physiognomy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His physiognomy is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). That we can understand. Sac-cid-ānanda. He is eternal, He is full of knowledge and He is blissful. Sac-cid-ānanda. Your body, my body, is just opposite. It is not eternal, it is temporary. And it is full of ignorance. Therefore we require knowledge. (aside:) Little away, yes. So this is full of ignorance, and there are so many miseries. So Kṛṣṇa hasn't got a body like this. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So we can distinguish what is Kṛṣṇa's body and what is our body. (break) ...understand. Try to understand, that what is the nature... That is called spiritual body. So we have got also similar body, but very small, very small. That is covered by this material body. And because in the spiritual body I am person, I have got form, therefore the material elements have taken a form. Just like when your coat is made, it is made according to your body. Because you have got hands, so the coat has got a hand. But the hand of the coat is not real. The real hand is within the coat. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Within. These foolish people, they do not understand. They take, "This is hand. This is hand." He does not know that this hand is artificial, outward. Real hand is within. This is their misconception. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: To imagine that God has a form. Man imagines God, not that God exists originally, but man imagines God based on his own form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anthropomorphism it is called. They create a form, but that is not the fact. God has His eternal form. That I explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form. And it is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternal, full of knowledge and... Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. People are accepting, because that is real knowledge. And nobody reads other books so carefully. And this Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. All big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, theologists, they read. Because that is real knowledge. That is the proof. It is real knowledge. Cit. Sac-cid. And one who is giving real knowledge, it is natural conclusion, he has got eternal body. We cannot give real knowledge because we forget. As we change our body, we forget. Just like at night we dream, but we forget the body, this body. In another body we go to some dreamland. So because we change body therefore we forget. And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body. Last birth, what I was, what you were, we have forgotten, because changed body. Death means forgetting. So because Kṛṣṇa is giving perfect knowledge of past, future and present, therefore it is to be understood that He has got eternal body. And eternal body means there is no misery. Misery means janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), to take birth, to die... (aside:) (Hare Kṛṣṇa.) And to suffer from disease, to suffer from old age. These are the miseries. So because Kṛṣṇa hasn't got this temporary body, therefore He is not suffering from these things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, you will see always, young man. You will never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as old man, because He is eternal body. This is the conclusion.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): In our heart.

Prabhupāda: No, no, heart or not heart. Your heart or not heart, but Kṛṣṇa's position is like that. He has got eternal body. He is blissful, because there is no miseries. Temporary body means there is misery, so many miseries. At least these four miseries, birth, death, old age and disease. So eternal body has no such miseries. Therefore it is blissful. Therefore it is full of knowledge. As soon as you get your eternal body, which is already there within this temporary body, then you also become blissful and full of knowledge. That is oneness. One in quality. Kṛṣṇa has got this body, eternal, blissful, full of knowledge. So when you get this body, then you are becoming equal in quality, not in quantity. Your question is answered?

Italian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you have got any doubt, you can still ask.

Italian Man (1): Maybe... May I emphasize... (break)

Prabhupāda: We have got your photo. So... but the difference is that your photograph and you are different. Because the photograph is of the temporary body, therefore it is not absolute. But Kṛṣṇa, being everything, Kṛṣṇa's photograph is also Kṛṣṇa.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (2): What is the ultimate aim of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimate aim is that there is spirit and matter. As there is material world, there is spiritual world also. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). The spiritual world is eternal. The material world is temporary. We are spirit soul. We are eternal. Therefore our business is to go back to the spiritual world, not that we remain in the material world and change body from bad to worse or worse to bad, er, good. That is not our business. That is a disease. Our healthy life is to enjoy eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). So our human life should be utilized for attaining that perfectional stage—not to get any more this material body which we have to change. This is the aim of life.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)

Yogeśvara: No one goes into the park at night. Too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Devotee: He gets very angry, very upset at this movement.

Prabhupāda: He is such a foolish that he knows that he will not be able to stay in this, but "Why I made this house so strong, durable? I could have made some temporary house, some four pillars, that's all. But why I am anxious? But I want that a building should be so strong it will endure for so many years." But what about you? What is your guarantee? That knowledge, they will not take. This is their illusion. We don't say that you have done wrong. Utilize it. Be comfortable, seated, and use your time for taking that knowledge.

Dhanañjaya: They are constructing these buildings in defiance of the existence of God.

Prabhupāda: Not defiance. Out of foolishness. They have got some energy for better purposes, but they are not utilizing it for better purposes,—for some things which is illusion. That's all. They have got intelligence. This construction of building requires good intelligence, but they're lacking this intelligence, that "I have constructed this house very nicely, but I will not be able to live in it."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What ism you manufacture it doesn't matter. We have to see whether you are understanding the value of life. Our point is that. We don't mind whether you are communist, capitalist, this ist, that ist, that... We want to see whether you are utilizing your human intelligence for right purpose. We don't condemn anyone. If the communists, they are also making the same plan as the capitalist, then what is the use of this communism? The same thing. It may be useful for the temporary purpose, for the rascals, but it is the same quality.

Devotee: Gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haihaya: But they say that first we must deposit the same right, the distribution must be equal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot do. Why don't you see? Why don't you make up others who are already suffering? What you are doing for them? They do not like to take it. Even your proposal, "You come, live in a nice house," they will not take it. Then? What you will do? You are making arrangement for good purposes, for good standard of living, but others, they will not accept your proposal. I have given the example, hippies. Let the Communists come and ask them, "Why you are living in this way? Come on. We shall give you." Why communists? Their government is offering, "Why you are lying on the street? Come on. Live in a nice house." They will not accept it. What you will do, that?

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya." Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This you will get even if you become cat and dog. But in the cat and dogs, I will not get this opportunity, how to get out of this material existence. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. These are the instructions of Prahlāda. These rascals have no education to understand. Therefore we must give this education.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Ah, mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Mad-bhāvam, "My nature." "My nature" means spiritual nature. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuṇṭha planet. Āgatāḥ: "They came." Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That's all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, "Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there." What you will do then? "Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me." All right, go. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that "I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body." That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye: (SB 5.5.4) "Oh, it is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano' yam: "This kind of activities will cover your soul by body." "Well, this body is temporary. Don't bother." Then another body, rascal. This body is temporary, but you get another body, most abominable. Why you are doing like this? Asann api. Although this body is temporary, but why don't you understand that it is kleśada: It is always subjected to miserable condition of material life. Kleśada. This is kleśada, another body you get, kleśada. Any body you get, kleśada. Why do you get this? Stop these activities. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That they do not know.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No. If there is actual brain, there is no problem. Just like if I have got good brain... I want to take this thing in my pocket. But if I have got brain, "No, this will be stealing," then I can refrain from it. But if I think that "It is lying here. I can take," what is that?

C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...

Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.

C. Hennis: Yes, but there some people are better endowed with brains than others. Some people haven't got brains or not much brains.

Yogeśvara: But at least the direction must have brains. That's the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The brain... This is the work of the first-class man, this is the work of the second-class man. Just like any organization, any office, "These are for these men, the class. These are meant for the superintendent. These are meant for..." Everywhere, there must be organization, not that everyone should work whimsically. No. There must be a managing board, managing director. He is giving direction. Under his direction, everyone is organized. So the United Nations, such a great. This was organized for the total benefit of the human society, but there is no department which is actually can be called the brain organization.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says, "But then Kṛṣṇa says, 'Why are you afraid to fight? After all, the soul is eternal, but the body is only temporary.' So isn't that a justification..."

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Therefore you open slaughterhouse and go on killing animals."

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Prabhupāda: Well, if you have killed some man and you go to the court and if you say that "He is not killed," will you be saved?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, "How is this, that the only thing we've talked about since we've gotten here has been eating of meat? Is that the only...?"

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: He says, "How is that that the only thing we've talked about since we came today has been eating meat? Is that the only thing that the Bhagavad-gītā teaches?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, because our proposal is that unless you become... Find out that verse, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. This is the beginning of theism. Theism means you must be free from all sinful activities. That is theism. If you remain sinful you cannot make any progress in theism. That is the point.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: His, he says...

Prabhupāda: No, no. For the time being. It is useless... Actually, it is useless. But for the time being, we are taking as very useful. Just like the aeroplane. It is very useful. But as soon as crashed, where is the...? Whole thing is lost. And it will crash. Because everything material we are creating... Just like the big, big buildings. They're also crashed. The end is there. Anything material, it has got beginning, and it has got end. That is our point. So things which will end in due course of time, why we should waste our time in that way? And we are part and parcel of God. We have got different business. We have forgotten that. We are simply engaged in temporary castle building which will be relics after some thousands of years. So are we not wasting our time?

Robert Gouiran: There is no end. It's only a transformation.

Yogeśvara: There is no what?

Prabhupāda: What is that transformation?

Robert Gouiran: You say...

Yogeśvara: There is no end?

Robert Gouiran: ...there is a beginning and there is a end. But I don't call it an end. It's just transformation.

Prabhupāda: The transformation is going on automatically. Transformation... Just like from ether there is transformation of sound. From sound there is air. From air there is fire. From fire there is water. From water there is land. That is going on. You are not doing anything. It is going on. This is known that this is the physical elements. Beginning is the ether. Do you accept it or not? From ether there is sound. From sound there is air. From air there is fire. From fire there is water. From water there is land.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: No, what I said before. I said that to say that the ship is now relic...

Prabhupāda: But you... That we admit. There is some temporary use. There is some temporary use.

Robert Gouiran: Yes, I agree.

Prabhupāda: Just like your body has got some temporary use. Your body... But the... Your body's working. You, you are a scientist. You are working. Your work is temporary. But the soul, as soon as the soul is gone from your body, your body'll not work.

Robert Gouiran: Yes, but during his life my body has participated to a cosmic plane.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yogeśvara: He says, while the ship is existing or while the body's existing, it must be used. It has some utility.

Prabhupāda: That I admit. But you have to accept it that it is temporary.

Robert Gouiran: Oh...

Prabhupāda: It is temporary.

Robert Gouiran: But it's a parcel of...

Prabhupāda: I don't say that it is false. It is temporary.

Robert Gouiran: I agree it's temporary.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That transform...

Robert Gouiran: So to transform the temporary...

Prabhupāda: You know or do not know, the transformation will take place. Take, for example, the ship. The ship is combination of these five material things, earth, water, air, fire and... And when it is destroyed, it again turns into earth, water, fire... So the conservation of energy is there. You simply give a shape, temporary, and it goes again to the same place, original physical elements. This is going on. But you are... You do not know that you are eternal. That is ignorance. So therefore the sense is that "If I am eternal, then why I am busy with these temporary things?" That knowledge is lacking. I am eternal. So now, as human being, I am busy in temporary things, to construct a big ship or aeroplane. But as soon as I change this body, I become a bird, I have no power. Then I manufacture a nest on the top of the tree. That is my business. Or... Because the body will change. That is lack of knowledge. I am eternal. In this particular body I am busy with some temporary things. And as soon as I change my body, then another temporary thing. Eh? The... Suppose the big Romans. When they were Romans, they constructed all these big, big buildings. But if the Romans have changed into birds, they're no more interested in this body. They're interested in making some complicated nest on the top of the tree. This is going on, life after li... This knowledge is lacking. Therefore it is said, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni... They are struggling on this mat... (break) ...physical world by concocted mental speculation. That's all. As soon as the body is changed, then everything is changed.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know, that "I am changing this body, and I am getting temporary engagement and wasting my time. And... But my problem, the change of body, death, is there. The death is there. Therefore my real problem is how to stop this death." That we want also. We do not wish to die. That is our propensity.

Robert Gouiran: Are you interested to know how we produce anti-matter in our laboratories from...?

Prabhupāda: Anti-matter, I have explained that, this... So our anti-matter is different. Anti-matter means spirit. But your anti-matter is different.

Robert Gouiran: Yes, it's just a word to define something.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but we mean, anti-matter means there are two things, spirit and matter. So anti-matter means spirit. That is our explanation. It is not matter. Just like matter is destructible. Anti-matter means which is not destructible.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So? Do you agree or not? (laughter) We welcome scientific knowledge. We don't say that scientific knowledge should be stopped, but it should be utilized to glorify the Lord. Then it is perfect. Otherwise useless. Means you don't get perfection. Perfection is when you scientifically describe the existence of God and His different energies, how they are working. And that is scientist, real scientist. Otherwise, theories, you can give your theory, I'll give you a theory... Temporary. That's all. So everything is there in Bhāgavatam, all knowledge, full knowledge. Vidvān bhāgavata-vādī. So vidvān means, vidvān means one who has learned Bhāgavata, Bhāgavatam nicely. He's vidvān, factually. So you do not read all these things?

Robert Gouiran: I am sorry.

Prabhupāda: Always read. So many information are there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Does this mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if the scientists of the world become little bit directed and they use their science to glorify Kṛṣṇa, then they're actually practicing yoga?

Prabhupāda: That is success. Their scientific knowledge will be successful when by scientific knowledge they prove that God is the origin of the universe. That is success. That is... Another verse you can read. Idaṁ hi puṁsas... No.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: You don't think that people could have a gift for healing?

Prabhupāda: There is no healing in the material world. There is disease always. There is no question of healing. Their healing is temporary. I am suffering from some disease. You give me some medicine. Does it mean that there will be no more disease? You heal that temporary disease. Again another disease. So where is the healing? So this is to be thought, that... Healing, that is the problem. There is no healing. There is always disease, this disease or that disease. If you prefer this disease heal, you are cured, and there will be no more disease, then you are profited. Another disease. You heal this, another disease. You heal this, another disease.

Robert Gouiran: So you think we can't help people?

Prabhupāda: Eh? You cannot! Can you help people to stop death? Or to stop disease? Or to stop old age? I am becoming old, can you stop?

Robert Gouiran: I think so.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: To be better, if he suffers.

Prabhupāda: Better, that is everyone is trying, that is... But there is no cure. If you think that temporary cure is better, that's nice, but there is no cure.

Robert Gouiran: So do you mean that healing is an illusion? Because healing is a fact.

Prabhupāda: But if you cannot cure, then where is that healing? First of all answer this. If you cannot cure, then where is that healing?

Robert Gouiran: But healing is a fact of life. I have seen.

Prabhupāda: What is that fact?

Robert Gouiran: I have seen healings.

Prabhupāda: Where is that? You heal some disease, and he gets another disease. Then where is the healing?

Robert Gouiran: Temporary.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Temporary, he says.

Prabhupāda: Temporary, therefore I say you cannot heal.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: It may be temporary... That is struggle for existence. That is said here, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi kartayam (?), they are concocting in the mind that "I am healing," but it is..., there is no healing.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Yogeśvara: You see, it's a question of perspective. In a suffering position you may say that some slight remedy is good, but you've not alleviated the suffering, the suffering is still going on. I remember one time Śrīla Prabhupāda, you gave this example, it was very wonderful. You were saying the United States, they're very proud, "We have so many hospitals with very nice equipment, very, very modern hospitals." But factually that's not advancement, that's suffering. It's an indication that there is suffering going on. So depending on your perspective...

Prabhupāda: Now they're saying we have increased so many beds, that means suffering has increased. They are thinking that they have done so good in this so many hospitals, and so many beds have been increased but that means suffering has increased. Otherwise why is the necessity of the beds and the hospitals?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Yes. It's not because some American hospital are not healer that healing does not exist.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they're trying, everyone is trying to heal, American or Englishman or European, it doesn't matter. Everyone is trying but there is no healing. That is our point.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He's saying that there is a value to temporary healing.

Prabhupāda: That's a... Temporary value, we also give but we say there is no healing.

Yogeśvara: Ah, yes, healing in the sense that it will never happen again.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It is in his mind, that he thinks that he is healed. Just like if you have a disease and then you have terrible disease that produces headache and so you take aspirin to relieve the headache, but still the disease is there. So he thinks, "I am O.K. now."

Robert Gouiran: Wait, I say that taking aspirin is not a good healing.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is example. The disease is still there.

Robert Gouiran: Well, but it is by such example that we could be misled.

Prabhupāda: That is good thing, that is healing? Do you think honestly, there is healing? There is no disease?

Robert Gouiran: I have seen healings.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: What is that you have seen, that he is not diseased? You have seen a man temporarily healed but why he suffers from another disease? Do you guarantee that there will be no disease? Can you guarantee?

Robert Gouiran: No more.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: No, because I don't know anything...

Prabhupāda: Then where is the healing? If there is disease, this disease... You simply distinguish from this disease to that disease.

Robert Gouiran: So how do you call a temporary...

Prabhupāda: That is admitted. That is admitted. I say you may have some temporary healing effect, but there is no healing. That is our point.

Robert Gouiran: So you call it temporary healing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. But there is no healing.

Robert Gouiran: So what do you think about temporary healing?

Prabhupāda: Temporary means temporary healing. That's all. (indistinct) Ultimately, you cannot heal. But you're satisfied by temporary heal. But we want complete healing. No more disease.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: But do you think that some people could have best... better gift for healings, for temporary healings than other?

Prabhupāda: For temporary healing or best or worst, it is temporary.

Robert Gouiran: But, I mean, do you think some people could have a gift for that?

Prabhupāda: He can talk with (indistinct) He do not, he does not understand what I've given. I say there is no healing.

Robert Gouiran: Yes. I understand that.

Prabhupāda: That's all. But your business is temporary healing. That's all.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: My spiritual master is trying to stress this evening that because we are eternal spirit soul that our real business is not with this temporary body or with temporary cures. And therefore, because we are involved with these temporary struggles, karṣati, we're simply struggling time and time again to make something permanent out of that which is always changing...

Robert Gouiran: How do you, why do you eat? It's taking a medicine. Food is a medicine.

Prabhupāda: But we don't say that is healing. Temporary relief, that's all.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Eating is... You...

Prabhupāda: That is not relief. That is temporary appeasement. That is all.

Guru-gaurāṅga: It's getting late, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees pay obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Our point is there is no healing. That is all. Give him some prasādam. (devotees leave)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: ...that everything is Kṛṣṇa's, therefore it should be used for Kṛṣṇa's service.

Prabhupāda: Healing is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nothing (indistinct). (end)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, same idea. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That idea is accepted.

Karandhara: No, he's saying that Aurobindo and Ramakrishna expressed that same idea in contemporary language in their own time.

Prabhupāda: So that existed temporarily. Now it is gone. That will not appeal. (French)

Yogeśvara: In other words, what he's suggesting is that that's not actually an argument because the important thing is that there were times, at different times, different people have come and have attempted or have actually represented the public sentiment. They have become the epitome or resume' or synthesis of the public sentiment at a particular period. In other words, he's saying the great reform..., the great preachers, they've always been representatives of people; instead of being representatives of Kṛṣṇa, or God, they've been the representatives of the people.

Prabhupāda: The people's representative is different from God's representative.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even you are fearless, you should not be fool. Because, if you know that "There is danger, I must be very careful," that is intelligence. That is not fearfulness. Besides that, a devotee like Prahlāda, he's fearless, but he's fearful for others. That is stated. Just like the mother. She knows that she'll not catch fire, she'll not fall down in the water, but she is always anxious to see her child that the child may not fall into the water, may not catch fire. She's working in her own way, but always fearful of the child. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, he's not fearless for himself, but because he's sympathetic, because he knows that all these rascals, they are wrongly wasting their time, therefore he's anxious, fearful. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For themselves, there is no unhappiness. That is their grace. And Vaiṣṇava is fearless, even if he's sent to hell, he's not unhappy. Because wherever he goes, he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually he has no fear, fearfulness. He is only unhappy... Just like we are talking. Others may think that we are criticizing, but we are actually talking. Suppose this, one who has manufactured this big park and he has, next life, he has become contaminated, the dog's life, then what is the use? How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? It is under the management of material nature, maram (?), very powerful. Just like even a big man like Napoleon, he's also under the control of material nature. As soon as the time is... "Get out." "No, I want to finish this arch." "No, sir, you get out." Then where is your powerfulness? That they do not know. For the temporary power, they become puffed up and go to hell. That's all. But they have no conception of hell. These are primitive ideas.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Analogy is, means where there is no spiritual sensation, that is matter. (French)

Karandhara: It's just merely meant to be an illustration, not that you're supposed to compare everything all the way around. The body is also material; the nail is also material. The point is that that which is not sensed spiritually by the true identity of the soul, that which is experienced outwardly by the material body and the senses, that is matter. But the basic element, or the basic consciousness is spiritual, and that's eternal. Whereas the sensation from outward, like what I see today and taste today, that is temporary, but the taster, the seer, he is eternal, the self. (French)

Prabhupāda: As soon as that spirit soul will be off from this body, this part of the body also will be without any sensation. Therefore the distinction of sensation and no sensation is due to the presence of the spirit soul. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the important thing is the basic principles. If you accept the basic principle, for example that the soul has a form, then we can discuss many many things afterwards.

Prabhupāda: Yes, soul has a form. (French)

Yogeśvara: He's asking is the form of the soul material?

Prabhupāda: No, spiritual.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that requires knowledge. That requires how to get that knowledge. He has no such knowledge. (French)

Karandhara: You explain to him the basic difference between the Buddhist concept and our concept is that after the material, the ignorance of the material body and the material self, is cleared away and eliminated, there is still a self. There's still a body, but it's spiritual. It's opposite from material. Whereas the material body is simply temporary and liable to suffer, the spiritual body is eternal and never suffers. It's just the opposite of material. Buddhists go towards... They get to the point of eliminating the material, but then they don't, they don't have the next step, or the spiritual.

Prabhupāda: No understanding of the spiritual. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the concept of Zen is to see spirituality in matter and something material in spirit, in spirituality. That is the concept of Zen, to realize spiritual life according to matter.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: On the other hand, he imparted knowledge to Brahmā, the first creation of this universe. That knowledge is called Vedic knowledge. That means Vedic knowledge is coming from God. And it is being distributed through Brahmā. And he's so mysterious that even learned scholars become bewildered to understand Him. And this material world, although it is temporary, it appears to be fact on account of energy, being energy of God. (French)

Yogeśvara: She says that God is known as antaryāmī, the witness in the heart. Does that mean that we can have a direct experience of God without going through the scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the practice of yoga. (French)

French Woman: I guess if you have the idea of prapatti, of surrender...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: This is description.

Professor Durckheim: May I put a question to the question of time, the meaning of time? I think there are two ways to look at time and to look at eternity.

Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. Time is eternal, but we calculate time, past and present and future, according to my temporary material existence. Just like a small ant. The ant's past and present is different from my past and present. I am a human being. I live for hundred years. So my past and present is different from the ant who lives for, say, a few hours.

Professor Durckheim: Is different from?

Prabhupāda: From the ant, a small living entity. And similarly, Brahmā, his past, present, is different because he has done millions and millions of years as one day. So the time is eternal, but according to our condition, occupying the time and space, we calculate past and present and future. Otherwise time itself is eternal.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Time is there, but because I have got this temporary body, I am thinking past, present, future. The temporary body will vanish. I shall get another temporary body. Then again my begins past and present. So therefore this is called illusion. Time is eternal. It has no beginning, no end, but we transmigrate from one body to another. We are calculating, miscalculating, past, present, future.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, time has no beginning and no end. But time in this second sense has nothing to do with beginning and end.

Prabhupāda: It has no end, beginning, no end. The beginning and end is of this body. And in relationship with this body, we are calculating past, present, future.

Professor Durckheim: But without this body, you wouldn't become conscious of what is beyond body.

Prabhupāda: I am conscious always. Just like in sleep, I am getting different body, but still I am conscious. And daytime, that sleeping body is gone; still, I am conscious. That consciousness is impure on account of our contact with this temporary body. So when you come to the pure consciousness, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yes, but temporarily, I cannot live without them.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I cannot live in my body without them.

Prabhupāda: Without them... You cannot live with this material body without so many conditions. And that is also one of the conditions. You cannot live. Any condition, little disturbed... You become diseased; you become disturbed. So therefore it is called conditional life. You simply live here on condition. And spiritual life means no condition. If the condition is favorable, then your senses will act. Otherwise you have got useless senses. If there is light, then you can see. You can become proud of your eyes. "Can you show me God?" And what you can see, rascal? If God gives you light, then you can see. You see under condition. And still, he's very proud of his eyes. "Can you show me God?" This is going on. Rascal, what you can see?

Devotees: Watch out! (ocean water apparently comes up to devotees.)

Jayatīrtha: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Ah. Govinda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: The water's coming up to touch your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (loud waves) So we are conditioned. And still, we are searching out the truth. What is your truth? You are conditioned.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Existence of thing... I say that at night, when I am dreaming, I do not see existence of these things. And at this time, in daytime, when I am seeing these things, I do not see the existence of the dream. So the conclusion should be both these things I see in daytime and I see at night, they have no existence. They are phenomenal. But I am the seer; I am eternal. I am existing. This is the proof. Because at night I am seeing and daytime I am seeing, so therefore I am eternal. But the phenomenal manifestation, they are temporary. We don't say it is false. Temporary. The Māyāvādī philo... Śaṅkara said it is false. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Mithyā means false. We don't say false. We don't say that this book is false. It has got reality, but temporary. This book has come into form at a certain date, and it will exist for certain days, and when it will be worn out or old, there will be no existence. Therefore the formation of this book is temporary. But I am the reader of the book; I am eternal. So two things are there, temporary and eternal. The temporary existence, somebody says, "False," but we say, "It is not false; it is temporary." But there is an eternal existence. Just like I am eternal. That is... We have to learn from śabda, vibration. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You understand Sanskrit. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That eternal thing is existing, it will continue to exist. Even after the destruction of this temporary body, it will continue to exist.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That tradition is nothing. Tradition is just temporary. You make your tradition; he makes your tradition. That is another thing. But the, fact is fact. That is not dependent on tradition. Tradition we can make, tradition. "We believe." Just like somebody says, "We believe." What is the use of such saying, "We believe"? You may believe something which is not fact.

Professor: Yes, but we could say that since the Upaniṣads and later, all things have been sustaining the thing which you have just said a moment ago, that there exists an identity between ātman and Brahmān.

Prabhupāda: Identity is there. That, therefore, I have already said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. Both of them are identical so far nitya is concerned or cetana is concerned, but one is dependent, and other is maintainer. That is difference. Both of them are truth. Both of them truth. You are truth; I am truth. You are living; I am living, existing. This is truth. This is truth, but you are professor and I am something else. That is temporary. But so far you are, as living being, and I am, as living being, that is truth. But your dress and my dress, that is temporary. So we have to understand like that. In this material world we are mixed up with temporary and eternal. The living entity is eternal, but his body is temporary. This is the position. So the problem is: why the eternal has got temporary things? That is hampering his ānanda. Just like I am sitting here. Now, if somebody says, "Now you'll have to die and accept another body," this is not very pleasing to me. Or even I am sitting in this apartment, and somebody..., "No, you change your apartment. Come. Come here." Again I change another apartment. So I'll seek after: "Why I am changing this apartment? Is it not possible to get an eternal apartment?" That should be the brahma-jijñāsā. That is... Vedānta-sūtra first says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Why I am subjected to this change?" That is intelligence. "Why not eternal apartment if I am eternal?" That is intelligence.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Devotees: Mars.

Prabhupāda: Mars. This is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He's not seeking after where is eternal happiness. He's... Temporarily, he's seeking here, there. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. In this way his life is finished, seeking ānanda, and he gets another body, another term. So his intelligence is not coming to the point that "What is this ānanda? I am eternal. I am seeking eternal ānanda. Why this ānanda? Sometimes this body, sometimes this position, sometimes that position—what is this?" That is intelligence.

Professor: I understand it very well from the point of view of particular individual and ātman...

Prabhupāda: Individual, we are part and parcel. The same thing: the supreme eternal, and we, means subordinate eternal. We are of the same quality. Quality is the same but quantity different. Therefore our knowledge quantity and his knowledge quantity different. Therefore we should take knowledge from Him, who has large quantity of knowledge. We have got tiny quantity of... This is the difference. He is also cognizant, I am also cognizant, but his knowledge is vast, unlimited; my knowledge is tiny. Therefore, if I want to know more, we should know from Him. That is perfect knowledge. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the process.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Hṛdayānanda: If music is important to us?

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, our basic principle is pleasure. So whatever gives pleasure, we accept. That is natural. But in the material world, they take material pleasure, but we are for spiritual pleasure. So as soon as we speak of pleasure, there must be varieties. Without... Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So the only thing is that the material pleasure, that is temporary. It is finished after certain period, and spiritual means eternal. So our endeavor is to transfer ourself from this material pleasure to the spiritual pleasure. But the pleasure is the aim, either in this material world or in the spiritual world. This is... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedic... Our position is ānandamaya, to remain in pleasure. But here in this material world, the body is temporary, and everything is temporary. Therefore pleasure is temporary.

Professor: You could also, I think, offer a yoga system for...

Prabhupāda: Yes this is bhakti-yoga. Yes, bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogena manasi. Bhakti-yogena manasi (SB 1.7.4). There is a verse in Bhāgavata. Real yoga means bhakti-yoga.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: That is not knowledge; that is art. Just like electrician. He knows how to mix the two wires and bring the current. That is not knowledge; that is a business or art for temporary recreation. And because he knows the art how to bring the current, it does not mean that he knows the Absolute Truth. So people are taking at the present moment electrician as the knower of the Absolute Truth.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that he thinks that the knowledge that you're giving is perfect because it is perfect knowledge and not because you are giving it. Because it is revealed knowledge, perfect because it is revealed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone can take it. Just like we are giving knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā. So the Bhagavad-gītā is open for everyone; it is not for me only. It is for you also. That is our movement, that you take the perfect knowledge and be happy and make your life successful.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that for example he could listen to everything that you were saying, and then he could repeat it, and someone might say to him that "Oh, you are an expert. You are a master," but actually he's not. He's simply repeating.

Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Then he's asking, he's humbly asking you to give him a little bit of the clue.

Prabhupāda: Yes, just like... It is very common sense clue. Kṛṣṇa says the proprietor of the body is within the body. Now, you were a child. So in your child body, you were present there, and in your boyhood body, you were present there. In your youthhood body, you were present there. Now you are middle-aged. You are there. I am old man. I am there. So body, the childhood body, the boyhood body, the youthhood body, they are no more existing, but I am existing. Therefore I am eternal; the body is temporary. This is the clue. Therefore the conclusion is that as I have changed so many body but still I am existing, therefore, when I shall change this body, I will exist. Now, I have transmigrated from babyhood body to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. Similarly, I shall transmigrate to another body. A you..., young man can say, "No, no, I don't believe in the old body," but that does not mean he will not get the old body. He will get it by laws of nature. That is compulsory. Similarly, if somebody says, "I don't believe in the next life," that does not mean he is authority. Nature will give him. Nature will not agree or obey the imperfect person. The same example: if the young man says, "I don't want old body," nature will not hear him. Nature will give him, force him: "You must accept old body." Everyone does not want to die, but nature puts him forcibly: "Yes, you must die." So after all, we are perfectly under the control of superior authority. We cannot become independent, and our independent thoughts has no value.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: I think I have explained this. Instead of contemplating what will happen to this world, you have got a short duration of life, say fifty, sixty years. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't consider what will happen to this world. The nature will take care of it. You don't puzzle your brain with these thoughts. You utilize whatever time you have got in your possession and go back to home, back to Godhead. (break) You cannot check it. Best thing is that you mold your life and go back to home, back to Godhead. "Oil in your own machine." Instead of thinking what will happen... They will happen. Because people will go on with their rascal civilization, natural consequences will be there. You better take advantage of whatever time you have got and become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and go back to home. (break) ...and we are thinking, "You are crazy. You are losing the opportunity of life." Therefore I wrote that "Who is Crazy?" They have got this opportunity, human form of life, to make a solution of all problems, but they do not care for it. They are simply allured, the temporary happiness of this body, and the body will finish within some years. That they do not take care. They think it is all in all, body.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): So he is saying that this material world is a combination of so many different elements, intelligence, so on and so forth. And in the center of all of this, the essence is that which is eternal. And this eternal thing cannot have any name because then it would be limited, and that would be a contradiction. And also it has no form.

Prabhupāda: No, that eternity, that is nice, that the material world is temporary, and the eternity is spiritual. That is clear understanding. Material elements, just like earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, ego, intelligence, and the spiritual element is which is utilizing these material elements. Do you admit this?

Guest: Si.

Prabhupāda: The others? That is the distinction between matter and spirit. Just like this microphone, it is combination of earth, water, air, fire, like that. But the living being, he has utilized, he has combined this matter into this microphone. Is that admitted? Now, exactly like the microphone, the combination of matter and done by some living entity, similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation is combination of matter, and there is one living being or the Supreme Being who has combined them, and it is working. Is that admitted? So that is the difference between limited and unlimited, that I, you are living being... We can also create something like this microphone or this big aeroplane. We have created. That is limited. But there is another one who has created innumerable planets and that is floating in the air. Is it not? We are taking credit of becoming big scientist by creating one airship, 747, five hundred passengers carrying. How many we have created? Maybe hundred, two hundred. But there are millions and trillions of planets floating in the same way in the air, and those planets containing so many big, big mountains, ocean, and they are floating in the air. We can create limited things, but He can create unlimited things. Therefore we have got our limited brain, and He has got unlimited brain. Is that correct?

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that these points are actually common to many different philosophies, and he feels there are many different ways and many different philosophies for passing our time in this temporary life.

Prabhupāda: So he is interested only on the temporary life. Never mind. There may be disaster.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): As a doctor, he says he is naturally interested in this life in the problems of the body, but he also feels that a human being should follow whatever philosophy he chooses in order to achieve what one may call the spiritual world or eternal happiness.

Prabhupāda: Then it is something like that, that the motor mechanic is interested with the motor car, but he is not interested with the welfare of the driver. But the fact is, if the driver is not in order, the car will not go. It may be well-equipped, well-engined, well-oiled, but if the driver is defective, it will create another disaster.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels that you don't understand what he's saying, that actually he does not feel that we should dedicate ourselves exclusively to the body...

Prabhupāda: I don't say exclusively. I say the first care should be taken of the driver, and taking care of the car is secondary.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

(SB 7.6.1)

This is statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumāra, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life." There is no guarantee when death will come. A child may also die tomorrow. There is no guarantee. Therefore spiritual education should begin as soon as a child can understand something. Because there is no guarantee that he will remain for many years. There is no guarantee. So the business of human life is to revive our lost relationship with God. So if we miss, then I may get another body, not even human body. Then I miss the opportunity. There are 8,400,000 types of forms. Just like the trees, they are all... (break) ...human form of life. And that may take millions of years. So if we miss this opportunity of human life, to revive our relationship with God, and next life I become something else, then how much great loss it is, just try to understand. This human form of body is obtained after many, many millions of years' struggle. So this is also temporary, as the cats' and dogs' body, they are also temporary. But although it is temporary, it is arthadam. You can achieve the real purpose of life. That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him. (break) ...means from five years to twenty-five years, brahmacārī, he has nothing to learn except God, brahmacārī. Brāhme carati iti brahmacārī. He is simply interested in Brahmān. That is called brahmacārī.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Are these living entities constant? They don't change any.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nitya, nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Why don't you see these references? It is never created. It is ever-existing, eternal. Only it appears to be temporary on account of accepting different material bodies. Therefore, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that he has changed his body, the same person. Just like father, mother knows. When a son becomes very stout and strong, the mother sees that same child. Others may be bewildered. One who has seen the child very long ago, now he has become robust build. He cannot say. And the mother says, "He is my child, that child." So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Satsvarūpa: "For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: That's all. So where is the question of creation? But because we have got these material eyes, we want to see everything through this material manifestation. We are seeing that he is dead, he is alive, he is born, he is this, that...

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.

Rūpānuga: Become immortal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real intelligence, not to be bothered by these trifle temporary things that "I am dying twenty years before. If the situation was better, I would have lived more twenty years." What is this mentality?

Devotee: Back to Godhead.

Ajāta-śatru: Yes, we can go back to Godhead. (Prabhupāda enters temple, kīrtana very loud) (end)

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But you are working blindly,... just like monkey, he is busy, but he does no value. You work under our direction, then it will be of value. (Chants japa.) Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Senses are not to be abolished. They cannot be. It has to be purified. And then, when the senses are engaged in the service of the proprietor of the senses, then it will be perfect.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So this body is temporary anyway, so aren't these senses temporary also?

Prabhupāda: No. Senses are there. The dog has senses, you have got also senses. Body may change, the senses will continue.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But when the body is finally finished, aren't the senses also finished?

Prabhupāda: No. Body will have finished when you are liberated. Otherwise, one after another, another body, that's all. Childhood body is finished, you have got another body. But in a childhood body there were senses, and still you have got senses. The body may change, but the senses will continue. Even in the small ant, for sense gratification, they gather as soon as there will be grain of sugar immediately. They have got the same senses. Just like you run after something according to your estimation very big, for them that one grain of sugar is very big. So they are also running after sense gratification. So anybody, viṣaya karuṇa sarva dakṣaya, whatever body you may get, the senses will be there, and you'll enjoy, according to your capacity.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But who takes it seriously?

Devotee: They all do.

Prabhupāda: They stay here and go away. That's all... Temporary, temporary.

Devotee: But then they will also buy the record and listen at home.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but our song, we are chanting always, where is that song you have got? You have got (indistinct) ...he has to give new record. Nobody cares for the old record. (indistinct) ...then his business will stop. If you say that "I have given one song, that's all." (everybody laughs) Who'll care for it? That is our credit.

Devotee: But they will say only a select few are interested in that Hare Kṛṣṇa song.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not select few. They're increasing the number, many thousands. Cannot say select few. Select few was beginning (indistinct) ...I was chanting (indistinct). And now that it is not select few and it will increase. But the song is the same. That is our credit.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: "As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Śiva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajāmila is one of them. Ajāmila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still, he was saved by the Lord at the end."

Prabhupāda: Even by sentiment one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not loser; he is gainer. And if one person does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does his duty very nicely, he gains nothing.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can drugs sometimes be used to help us for spiritual realization?

Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Spiritual realization means knowledge. Not to become intoxicated. The spiritual... Just like this is spiritual knowledge. So what the intoxicated person will understand? Even a sane man cannot understand. Then how he will understand in intoxication? It is foolishness. They are suffering material pangs. By taking drugs the suffering is forgotten, and he is thinking that is the solution. Spiritual means negation of material distress. So he is always suffering from material distress. By taking drug, temporarily he forgets it. Therefore he misunderstands "This is spiritual." That's not spiritual. Then committing suicide is also spiritual? One man is suffering, and the suffering is so great he cannot tolerate, therefore he sometimes commits suicide. Is that committing suicide spiritual? Spiritual means negation of material distresses, that's a fact. But that is a different thing. When you come to the spiritual platform, not by artificially forgetting your material suffering. That is not spiritual.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: To want to and to do it is different.

Prabhupāda: No, unless you are fully aware of my abilities, qualities, why should you surrender? (indistinct) So, before surrendering, one has to study the person where he is going to surrender. Then he surrenders. That is real surrender. And blindly surrender, that will not stay. So, our first business is to surrender to God; therefore we must know what is God. Then you must surrender. And, the emotion is good. That means you are advanced. If you understand that God is giving us everything. So, that emotion is very good. If one from the very beginning becomes emotional, "Oh, God is so kind. God is so great, that He is giving us everything, our necessities. I must serve Him." This emotion is very good. But for ordinary man, this emotion does not come. He wants to study what is God. Then when he fully understands, "Oh, God is so great." Then that emotion is very nice. That is genuine emotion. Otherwise emotion is sentiment. That will not stay. That will not endure. It is temporary.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Because he has accepted this material body.

Mother: And this is why there's so much human suffering.

Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of accepting a material body. Therefore every one of us should try how to avoid this process of accepting a material body. That should be our only endeavor, not to make a temporary solution. That is not very good solution.

Mother: But the world will never all become Kṛṣṇa conscious, will they? There will always be different scriptures.

Prabhupāda: What different there may be?

Gaṇeśa: Different scriptures.

Śrutakīrti: She said everyone won't all become Kṛṣṇa conscious in the world.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So if you are serious to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you hear Kṛṣṇa, what does He say. Then you do that.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Well, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, or the Supreme Soul, and we are all individual souls. So naturally we have an awareness of our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. When we say God or Kṛṣṇa, we don't mean my God or your God, but we mean God, no matter which religion we're speaking of. So all of us naturally have a capacity to love Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we can awaken this relationship with Him. And when that is awakened, then all unwanted things disappear, because everybody is actually frustrated, looking for permanent happiness in this temporary world. But when we awaken our Kṛṣṇa consciousness then all of those frustrations disappear, and so all such problems like drug addiction become unnecessary.

Guest (2): How long does this process of withdrawal take?

Paramahaṁsa: He says how long does it take to stop taking drugs by the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: If one lives with us at least for six months, he will give up.

Guest (2): Six months. And are there cases which relapse?

Paramahaṁsa: He says, "Are there cases of..., which relapse? Persons who begin to withdraw from drugs...?"

Prabhupāda: Maybe one in five hundred.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Sabhāpati: So who is the greater rascal, the material scientist or the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old.

Then where is the education value? You cannot solve your problem, so what is the meaning of education? Education, knowledge, means you have solved your problems. They are trying to do that, temporary problem. But ultimate problem they cannot solve. Therefore the value of this education is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). It is simply laboring after something, that's all.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see, just see.

Revatīnandana: So much misery; still, he would not die. He tolerated all these operations.

Bahulāśva: This Professor Stahl, he was saying that his experience is that everything is changing and temporary. So therefore he was thinking that that is the nature of all things, that they are temporary.

Prabhupāda: Temporary, this (indistinct). Why this "temporary" word has come into existence unless there is the opposite, "eternal"? Why do you use this word, "temporary"? When you say, "It is fraud," and there must be something as honesty. Otherwise, why this "fraud" has come? Hm? We say, "This is light"—means there is something as darkness. This is relative world. The Professor Einstein said relativity. This is relative: as soon as there is darkness, there must be light. Otherwise, how you understand light and darkness? So unless there is eternity, how do you bring this word, "temporary"? What is their answer?

Bahulāśva: They have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is father, there is no meaning of the word son. Unless there is husband, there is no meaning of the word wife. This is the relative world, and they are accepting this relativity. So how they can deny? As soon as you "temporary" say, you must accept there is eternity.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If wife's a little hair is infringed, he should take steps immediately. That is husband, not that accept wife today and give it up tomorrow. That is not husband. Husband must be very responsible to take care of the wife, and wife must be very chaste to serve the husband. Then family life is all right. (break) ...do not understand that "I am a living entity. I am encaged in this material body, and this material body means subjected to so many miserable condition." That they cannot understand. So my first business is how to be free from this repetition of accepting a material body. That they are not... A temporary life for fifty years or sixty years, they are busy, making very, very, gorgeous arrangement. This is asuric civilization. He does not take it very seriously that "I am encaged in this material body. My first business is how to get out of it and remain in my spiritual body." They get one type of body, and, like cats and dogs, engage, how to keep that body in sense gratification. That's all. (break) ...spiritual education, that "I am spiritual, spirit soul. I am encaged in this body. I want freedom. That is my first business, how to become liberated." No, that question set aside. Now, for the time being, we are walking here, and if there is some misunderstanding, we fight, forgetting that we have come here for walking, say, for half an hour. And why we shall forget our real business? That intelligence is not there. (break) ...India the Indira Gandhi was made as all in all. Now there is a catastrophe. We do not know what is going to happen.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That is the most successful. Wherever book distribution is going on nicely, that is successful, because people are in gross ignorance. They are taking this temporary life as everything. Very horrible condition. We are trying to explain what is the actual life.

Satsvarūpa: Here in Denver they have to compete with many bogus groups. This is the world headquarters of Guru Mahārājaji and many other... They like to come here, the mountains. So they're always making our propaganda against them.

Prabhupāda: So make propaganda against them vigorously. We have got sound footing. What these nonsense have? Tell them all nonsense, bogus. This rascal Guru Mahārājaji is God, and the other rascals are accepting him God? This rascaldom is going on in such civilized city? He is God?

Satsvarūpa: Well, Kuruśreṣṭha, the president, says that the local people are very much disgusted with him. They don't like him.

Prabhupāda: Challenge that "I shall kick on the face of this rascal, and if he is God, let him punish me. If he is God, let him punish me. I am prepared. So come on in the public. I kick on his face, and let him do whatever he likes. I am prepared. If it is God, let me (him) kill me by his mantra or by his will. Then I will accept him." This is challenge, that "I shall kick on his face in public, and if he is God, let him punish me." And you are so fool that you are accepting this rascal as God? You belong to American nation, advanced. You have become so rascal? Challenge like that. He has come to cheat you, and why you are so befooled that you are being cheated? He is convicted in the court that he is a, what is called, deceiver. Yes. The court judgment is there. He is a deceiver.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). This is a place—in every step there is danger. We are walking in a very nice park. At any moment there may be revolution, whole thing is changed. Whole thing is, becomes fire. Just like, in India now it has become. So we should remember that here in this material world, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam, every step there is danger. Give up this place. That is the real intelligence. And the education misleading them, māyā-sukhāya, making gorgeous plans for temporary happiness. That's all. If in the slaughterhouse the animals are kept very comfortably, so what is the meaning of it?

Brahmānanda: They'll still be slaughtered.

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is the meaning?

Satsvarūpa: No meaning.

Prabhupāda: It is sure that all the animals will be slaughtered, and if the arrangement is "All right, before being slaughtered, let them live very comfortably," is that very good intelligence? The intelligence is "Why we shall be slaughtered?" That is intelligence. What is the meaning of slaughterhouse? Who can explain?

Brahmānanda: Everyone dies there.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Mathurā, yes. His father, mother... That Sally used to say, "My husband is a lost child of their parents." He is not doing very well. He is getting $800. At that time, maybe $1,000. What is here, eight hundred, thousand dollars? He could have lived very comfortably at his father's care. He is very rich man. (break) (walking:) Thing is that people are working so hard day and night for these temporary years, and less than that laboring they can go to back to home, back to Godhead. Little labor. But they do not know. Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25), bhūtejyā yānti bhū..., mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Just to get a nice car, a nice wife, and a few children by working so hard, bhūtejya, and the same labor, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām, if he devotes for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. And what is wrong there? We have got so many Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. What is wrong there than these ordinary karmīs? Hmm? Are we unhappy? What do you think?

Brahmatīrtha: No, nice.

Prabhupāda: See? Just see the foolish people. They are working so hard for nothing. Everything will be finished after this death, and he will become a cat and dog or a tree. You see? (break) ...sometimes advocate the materialists.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Now, we want this house just to keep them for sometimes with our association. That is temporary, for one hour or two hours, but I wish they should come and live with us for some time. Then it will be effective, more effective. That is... Therefore I wanted a house like this.

Mayor: Well, I think I probably should be getting on. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me this morning.

Prabhupāda: And I also thank you for your kindly coming here, taking...

Mayor: It's an honor to meet you.

Prabhupāda: So you can keep his card. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)

Śrī Govinda: ...to your wife.

Mayor: My wife may take it away from me. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So you can take another for your wife.

Mayor: No, this is fine. Thank you very much. We'll see you all.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (mayor leaves) Now, try to get this house from the... He can... If he likes, he can do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're in a position. They have many such buildings, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṁsāre māyāra janeiya, moha janeiya, jīva ke karaye gadha. This māyāra vaibhava, this material advancement is advancement of māyā. Big, big building, nice road, nice motor car, nice... Surely it is material advancement, admitted. But this advancement is advancement of the illusory energy. So what is the wrong there? Suppose... The wrong is there that this material world is temporary. We have come here temporarily, say twenty-five years, fifty years or at most, hundred years. So we are already illusioned and we become more illusioned. Then we forget our real business. Mūḍha, we remain mūḍha. Supposing if there is next birth, so who is very much anxious to know what is our next birth? Nobody is. Blindly going on. māyāra vaibhava. (break) ...very nice church, but understand what for this church is, what is God, what is God consciousness. Just cultivate this knowledge. "No, big church finished." Live nice building, nice happy life, but don't forget Kṛṣṇa. Then what is the use of this life? And if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be crime, and you will be facing with problems, "Why and now what to do?" So many problems will be there. So the problems cannot be solved simply by possessing big, big buildings.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: There is no purport of Devahūti?

Nitāi: "Here the word asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt is significant. Asat means 'impermanent,' 'temporary,' and indriya means 'senses.' Thus asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt means 'from being agitated by the temporarily manifest senses of the material body.' We are evolving through different statuses of material bodily existence sometimes in a human body, sometimes in an animal body—and therefore the engagements of our material senses are also changing. Anything which changes is called temporary, or asat. We should know that beyond these temporary senses are our permanent senses, which are now covered by the material body. The permanent senses, being contaminated by matter, are not acting properly. Devotional service, therefore, involves freeing the senses from this contamination. When the contamination is completely removed and the senses act in the purity of unalloyed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we have reached the sad-indriya, or eternal sense activities. The eternal sensual activities are called devotional service, whereas temporary sensual activities are called sense gratification. Unless one becomes tired of material sense gratification, there is no opportunity to hear transcendental messages from a person like Kapila. Devahūti expressed that she was tired. Now that her husband had left home, she wanted to get relief by hearing the instructions of Lord Kapila."

Prabhupāda: So this full book is the answer and question between mother and son. So, although she is mother, she has given birth to the child, but she has become now dependent on this child for good instruction. This is ideal society.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So we living entities, we are eternal, part and parcel of God. God is eternal and we are also eternal. Just like gold and little portion of gold. Both of them are gold, but the big gold and the small gold, that is different. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, qualitatively we are one; quantitatively we are different. Although we are different, still, in the spiritual world we can enjoy the same facilities in cooperation with God. We are trying to be happy in this material world. That is not possible. Because here there are four principles of miserable condition, which we cannot avoid. They are birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this life, in the human form of life, where we come after evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, our consciousness being developed, we should decide now whether we shall remain within this material world or we shall go to the spiritual world where the life is eternal. There is no birth, death, old age and disease. So the Vedic civilization trains all human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Vedic civilization. We cannot be happy in this temporary material life. We are working very hard, but if we work a little only, not very hard, there is no need of working very hard. We have created a civilization that we have to work very hard. The Vedic civilization does not recommend that for sense gratification, you shall simply work very hard, day and night. This is not very good life. You should know what is the value of life, what is the aim of life. God has provided everything for our living condition. We should be satisfied, whatever is alloted by God, and save time for being promoted to the spiritual world. That is the arrangement already there by nature.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That detachment is a form of wealth for the renounced order.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the gain of human life. Arthadam. This is meaning. Artha means meaning. Arthadam. Durlābhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human life, form of life, is very, very rare. So one can say, "You will also die like cats and dog. How it is rare?" No, yes, adhruvam arthadam: "Although it is temporary, it will not stay, but you can have meaning of life." Adhruvam arthadam. Everything is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialistic people say that... When they see someone in the detached position, they say, "He is impoverished." They are so confused that they conclude the opposite.

Prabhupāda: Impoverished?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Impoverished means they are poor.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the poor? What you are rich? You are whole day working day and night, and we are not working, getting our prasādam. I am poverty-stricken, or you are poverty-stricken? You rascal, whole day you are working...

Brahmānanda: For a dry biscuit.

Prabhupāda: ...like an ass, and we are getting, sitting, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and getting our food. So you are poverty-stricken or I am poverty-stricken?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A poverty-stricken man has to work very hard.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The word is used, nitya-yukta. Nitya-yukta means perpetually. If a devotee is to merge into the existence of the Lord then why this word is used, nitya-yukta. Upāsana. Not only nitya-yukta, upāsana. Upāsana means "you worship Me." As soon as the word is "he worships" that means the worshipable and the mode of worship and the worshiper must be there. That is indicated, nitya-yukta, perpetual. But the Māyāvādīs or these impersonalists, they think that it is temporary. I am devotee temporarily. As soon as I become perfect I become one.

Prof. Hopkins: So that you would see then, in terms of, in terms of some kind of theological structure, you would see that Puruṣottama as always...

Prabhupāda: Uttama, uttama means the best.

Prof. Hopkins: Always superior.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: And always...

Prabhupāda: That is the word, puruṣottama. Puruṣottama means supreme or superior. So there must be inferior, otherwise, how he is superior? Is it not?

Prof. Hopkins: Hm.

Prabhupāda: As soon as he is the superior, professor, or the, what is called? Junior or senior. As soon as called senior, there must be junior. Without junior there is no question of senior.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they deny. Therefore we call them atheist. But these Māyāvādī, they take the shelter of Vedas and they preach the same philosophy. "Yes, brahman-nirakara." (Hindi) ...don't believe in God... (Hindi) For the time being, Śaṅkarācārya might have said something like that to turn the Buddhists again to Vedas, but that is temporary. But they have taken it all true. (Hindi) ...eighty-five years they are working. They have no position. (Hindi) What is that? TM?

Brahmānanda: TM, Transcendental Meditation.

Prabhupāda: And what is the items they say?

Brahmānanda: No philosophy, no belief, no restrictions.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see. He advertises. Mahesh Yogi.

Indian man: Mahesh Yogi, yes. Followers, they are taking everything.

Prabhupāda: He says, "There is no restriction, or no philosophy, no faith." (Hindi conversation) Recently one book was published by Professor Judah. He has studied this movement for five years. He came to India. So he has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, but scholarly. (Hindi) He appreciated. (Hindi) ...and the fifty books I have, four hundred pages each.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They're misleading. That is misleading. We have to check that. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness move..., that... They are not enjoying, and these rascals misleading them that they are enjoying. (break) Enjoyment is our aim also—but real enjoyment. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande. Satyānanda. Not this ānanda, temporary ānanda.

Cyavana: Eternal.

Prabhupāda: Satyānanda-cid-ātmani. Yogis, bhakti-yogis, they also want ānanda, but not this false ānanda, satyānanda-cid-ātmāni, iti... Therefore they call Rāma. Rāma means ramaṇa, enjoyment. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhiyate (CC Madhya 9.29). They do not know what is satyānanda. They do not understand, as soon as we accept this material body, it is misery, simply misery. The body is constructed within the womb of the mother in a miserable condition. These rascals, they do not understand. In a packed-up way, head down, leg up. And it is enjoyment. The body is created in this troublesome, from miserable condition; still, they say, "enjoyment." This is foolishness. This is called illusion.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: I am the only intelligent person. (laughter) That's a fact. Mūḍho nābhijānāti.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: (BG 7.23) "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary." So does this mean that these less intelligent people who are simply interested in temporary benefit... Even they don't worship demigods per se, it could be anyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods... Yes. Just like one who is trying to get some good service. So they are worshiping this boss, that boss. That is also demigod, because without flattering some boss he cannot get some good job; without flattering the voters he cannot get the ministership. That is demigod worship. They have to flatter somebody. Why this Ram Gulab has gone to...? He has to flatter there. This is going on. The big bosses in the United Nation, they are demigods, supposed to be. He thinks, "If I flatter them, then I will be able to keep my position." But he does not think that this position will be lost after some years. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. He has forgotten his eternal life, Kṛṣṇa, and he is flattering these demigods. That's all. What he will gain? He will die. That's all. At the time of death what these United Nation leaders will do?

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So why not give us? Then we can make a nice...

Indian man (3): I think we could... (break) ...him and see what they are asking for applications from various charitable organizations.

Prabhupāda: So I have come temporarily. Why don't you approach?

Indian man (3): Yes, we will...

Prabhupāda: If he is known to you, you can approach, that "Here is a good cause, International..."

Indian man (3): I will send a message to him to come and see you this evening.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that will be very nice. Then I can talk. Yes. When you will bring him?

Indian man (3): I think you are meeting the officials of various organizations this evening?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've been invited.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the organizations.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Hospitals, there are many, but real hospitals... to cure the material disease, there is no hospital. They are... There are hundreds and thousands of hospitals for curing the disease of the body, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul. That is the defect. So we are opening hospital for curing the disease of the soul. They have no information about the soul throughout the whole world. Even so-called religious organizations, they have no information about the soul. They go to religious ceremonies for material profit. They do not know what is the necessity of the soul and what is the disease of the soul. They do not know. (break) ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. What is the goal of life, these people, they do not know, mūḍhas. Mūḍha means rascals, gadha. They do not know what is the goal of life. They take calculation of the duration of life, that fifty, sixty, or hundred years. That's all. Beyond this, after this, they do not know. Yes. That is the defect. (break) Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this temporary attempt to become happy-antavanta phalaṁ teṣām—it will end with the end of the body. But they do not know beyond this. Therefore alpam-medhasām, they are less intelligent. Just like a child playing. He likes to play and does not go to school. So do you think that is all right?

Indian man (3): No.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: "It is impossible. It will not be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? 'Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days.' These are their foolish. They will never say, 'No, it is impossible.' Still, they will support their rascal endeavors." Modern advancement of science, what actually they have done? We are talking on that point. Simply misleading. The Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one nice... (tape recorded section accidentally plays) "eating meat and drinking wine." (Prabhupāda and devotees laugh at interruption. Harikeśa apologizes) That... He says, jada vidy saba māyāra vaibhava. Jada vidyā means material education, the so-called material science. So jada vidyā. Vidyā means education, so this expansion of knowledge means expansion of the influence of māyā. Jada vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. And the result is tomāra bhajane bādhā. People will forget God. With the advancement of so-called material science or material knowledge, the result will be that people will forget God. And then next, next is anitya saṁsāre moha janamiya. "This material world, which is temporary, where we cannot stay, we are already captivated, but this advancement of material knowledge will make me more captive, and I shall work just like an ass." That's all. Now, whether he is right or wrong, tell me. His charge is that advancement of material education is advancement of the influence of material energy, and if you say that "What is the wrong there?" the wrong is that we are already rascals, and this education will make me more rascal. Anitya saṁsāre moha janamiya. "I am already captivated in this temporary material world, and these things will make me more advanced to be captivated in this material world." Now this is the version of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Now, if you don't like, tell what is the reason. Tell me. Material education... We are already captive under the laws of material nature, and the more we advance in material education, we'll be more and more rigidly captive. So this is the version of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. What is your answer? Can anyone refute Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that he is wrong?

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian lady (3): Temporary they give hormone.

Prabhupāda: What is this temporary? Temporary means...

Indian lady (3): Temporary they get to be God.

Prabhupāda: One Marwari man, very rich man, he eighty years old, he wanted to change the hormones to remain...

Indian lady (3): Yes. That was in Indore.

Prabhupāda: Indore, yes.

Indian lady (3): Kukumcha.

Prabhupāda: Kukumcha. Yes, you know.

Indian lady (3): He got the glands from the monkey.

Prabhupāda: Just see. But where is now Kukumcha?

Indian lady (3): Now he is no more.

Prabhupāda: So Kukum, finished. (laughter) Kukum means order. So he thought... Kukum means order.

Morning Walk -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Nondevotees, they are simply pulled on by the mental speculation: "This will be very nice. This will be very nice." Mano rathena on the chariot of mind... Asataḥ, material. Asat means material, "that will not exist." They will be busy in such things. Real, eternal necessity, they'll not be interested. They do not know. "Now, this beautiful city, it is my city, my country. Everything all right." But he has no knowledge that "After fifty years, when I shall die, where will be my city next?" That he does not know. For the time being, I shall be able to live here for twenty-five years or fifty years. That's all right. And next time, where I am going... A commonsense affair.

Cyavana: That's a third-class mentality, to be satisfied with that city...,

Prabhupāda: Temporary...

Cyavana: Simply to have a city and be satisfied.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Cyavana: Third-class mentality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's eternal. He does not know his eternal necessity. This is called ignorance. (break) You brought that sitting mat?

Brahmānanda: Use our chaddars. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: "That's all right. Without serving Kṛṣṇa, I am getting pleasure by drinking wine. Why shall I...?"

Cyavana: That pleasure will not last. That pleasure is only temporary.

Prabhupāda: "No, I will not also last. (laughter) that..."

Cyavana: But to accept such a mentality, we say that is third class. Actually our life is eternal.

Prabhupāda: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is "It is first class." (laughter)

Harikeśa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.

Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.

Prabhupāda: "I don't want to go."

Cyavana: You don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: "Yes."

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Vaikuṇṭha planet, where is the Goloka planet, where is this material world—in this way.

Bhāgavata: So if that's what you want, then we should not make a permanent structure? We should make some temporary structure like last year.

Prabhupāda: That you decide yourself.

Bhāgavata: So we should engage the local dollmakers in doing this.

Prabhupāda: First of all you have your place; then make dolls. But dolls should not be exactly like this, in the same way. But when you make actually, then I will give you how the models should be made. Now, how to do, where to do, that, it is your business. You decide, some of yourself, and do the needful. You have not yet done any plan for the big temple?

Saurabha: I have been asking Jayapataka for about one year to please send me some plan of the land so that I can place all these buildings, because there is no...

Bhāgavata: The blueprints are done. Jayapataka is revising them now. They are in Māyāpur. He is reviewing all the blueprints. They are all done. And when they are finished... When he finishes reviewing them, then we'll have them sent here immediately. I just sent them to Māyāpur.

Saurabha: As soon as I get the plans, I will make immediately, finish everything. We can make a master plan for the whole situation.

Prabhupāda: So ask him to send immediately site plan and begin.

Saurabha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be...

Dr. Patel: ...nirakalpa-samādhi. One man told me that's a very good... (laughing) I say we...

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. Nonsense. Fools.

Dr. Patel: Nirakalpa-samādhi. But they must be getting some sort of condition of the mind, though temporary. That is why they must have turned to that, no?

Prabhupāda: There is no consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Were you having the experience?

Prabhupāda: First of all you must give it up. Our philosophy is first of all you must give it up, all these bad habits.

Dr. Patel: That is the first condition among Vaiṣṇavas, that they should not have any of these, neither...

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex, then meat-eating. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Bhāgavata: ...leaving the four sinful activities. Then one can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, this is practicing. This is practicing. Unless one is... Yeṣam tu anta-gataṁ pāpam. Unless one is free from sinful activities, one cannot understand God. It is not possible. God is not so cheap.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says, jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life, advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of māyā. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā. We are already attached to this material world, which is temporary. By this expansion of māyā's influence we become more attached. Attachment is already there, but we become more and more attached. In this way, jība ke karaye gadha. So he is already ass; he becomes first-class ass. That's all. (laughter) Is that all right? Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has analyzed. "He is already an ass," sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Khara means ass. "But he becomes a first-class ass." So you'll find all these rascals, materialists, they are all first-class asses, that's all. Every day you find they are discovering new theory, new theory: "Atom, electron, this tron, that tron." Not the jīvātmā. They remain the same ass, first-class ass, scientific ass. They are finding out so many atoms, electrons, this tron, that tron, not that one ten-thousandth part of God. That they cannot find. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīva-bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). They have not come to that point, that one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair is the jīva, living entity. They have not come to that, neither they'll be able to come to that, because they remain ass, more and more ass, first-class ass, O.K. ass and then going on, the quality of ass.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Time is eternity, but your formation is not eternity. Your formation is temporary. Time is eternity. (aside:) Thank you. No. Time is eternity, that's a fact, but your formation... Asann api klesada asa deha. It is temporary. That's all right. You know, I know, everyone. But it will simply give you pains, although it is asat. That you do not know. Time is... Body is temporary, but so long the body is there, you have to suffer. That body may be a ant's body or Brahma's body. So as soon as you get a material body, you have to suffer and go on examining urine and stool. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and that is good wealth. And take some urine and find out, "Here is life." That's all. They are examining very scientifically. Why don't you...? The dead man's urine, if you examine and find out some injection and give it in life. Life is gone away, soul, and they are finding out life from the urine. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...but it is very reasonable. They are finding out out so many atoms, particles, but in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that all these atoms are aparā, inferior. Find out the parā, the superior atom. That is life. (Hindi question and answer) But you cannot bring in life by so-called mantras. That is not possible. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) ...can write to these particle men that "You are finding so many, but there is another particle which is one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. Find out that. That is life. That is superior." And quote Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. "Another atom." Give them information at least. (break)...Kṛṣṇa's message. Simply by reading one book, Bhagavad-gita, you become learned.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You take decision or not, he will be killed. That you cannot say. You are becoming very much moralist, whether to kill, but it will be killed. You cannot save him. That is not possible.

Harikeśa: So, they should just keep the machines going?

Prabhupāda: No, they should stop this nonsense and save money. That's all. Therefore they are called rascals. It will not be persisting. It is temporary. So why should you spend money? That is intelligence.

Saurabha: They have examined those people, and they say they have the same symptoms as plant life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: Not more than that.

Prabhupāda: And in our list the plants are there. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means plants. There are jalaja, aquatics, and sthāvara means plant. All living entities, different forms... Bhagavad-gītā says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). As many forms are there of the living entities. But what are these forms? Forms means the spirit soul is one, and he is covered by these material elements. That is form. So either your form or my form, but the ingredients are the same, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). (break) The soul is the same, and the ingredients of the body are the same. That is explained in Iśo..., ekatvam anupaśyate. Just like from gold, take from the mine—you make earring or this finger ring, the ingredients are the same. The forms may be different. (break) Apollo airship, thousands of technologists and scientists were engaged to make this Apollo, and it burst out. So they have no foreseeing power that it will burst out. At that time they began to pray to God.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Harikeśa: Well, the basic flaw with Indian culture is that some people are very rich and some people are very poor.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then why in your country there are hippies lying on the street? Why? Why they have accepted poverty?

Harikeśa: That's a temporary thing.

Prabhupāda: India is poor and rich, and why they are voluntarily poor?

Harikeśa: That was because they were all intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that there is no poor. There is voluntarily poor. You cannot say there is no poor.

Harikeśa: Well, in our Russian system we are trying to abolish that poor by making, take money from the rich.

Prabhupāda: Again that, "We are trying to abolish," the postdated check again.

Ambarīṣa: In Russia, everyone is poor.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is poor.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: You tell them that you are eternal spirit soul. Tell them about the eternal spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: That you have to convince. That you are eternal, but you are falsely engaged in temporary business. That you have to tell them.

Bhāgavata: We have to give them knowledge. Knowledge consists of telling them what is the field, who is the knower of the field, and the super-knower of the field. Once they get knowledge, knowledge is the preliminary step to executing devotional service. Once they have knowledge then they will be able to execute devotional service. And Rūpa Goswami says that one who executes devotional service in knowledge, increases his knowledge. Therefore the first thing is that we should give them knowledge and knowledge means to understand this body, the owner of the body, and the supreme owner of the body, Kṛṣṇa./ Puṛuṣa prakṛti caiva,/ kṣetra kṣetrajñam eva ca./ etad veditum icchāmi/ jñāna jñeya ca keśava. "What is the field; what is the puruṣa; the enjoyer; what is prakṛti, nature; what is the kṣetra the field; what is the kṣetrajñor; the knower of the field; what is knowledge and what is the end of knowledge. These things I wish to know.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya! (break) No. Why Karl Marx? Your Vivekananda says yata mat tata patha: whatever you manufacture, that is all right.

Dr. Patel: That is because you are struck by the utter poverty of the people...

Prabhupāda: No, no...

Dr. Patel: It was temporary, you see. Because here Karl Marx wanted it permanent, and...

Prabhupāda: He himself is suffering from poverty—of knowledge.

Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, he committed the greatest sin...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says mam ekaṇ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and Vivekananda says yatha mat tatha path. Just see. He is poverty-stricken of knowledge, and he's giving knowledge. Just see the fun. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said guru more mūrkha dekhī' kori... śāsan: (CC Adi 7.71) "My guru found Me, seeing Me, I am a fool number one, he has chastised Me." What is that? "Don't read Vedānta; You cannot understand. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," because...

Dr. Patel: Here we are talking about the divyā part of the...

Prabhupāda: Because, no, He was questioned...

Dr. Patel: ...of the life. I talk of the maintenance of the body. To maintain the body Karl Marx put up this theory and, I mean, spoiled the whole thing—whole society and social set-up.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi to a passerby) Everyone is manufacturing; that is my point. Either Karl Marx or this one or that one, everyone is manufacturing. No one is taking the instruction. And our mission is "Take instruction of Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't manufacture like nonsense. What you'll manufacture? You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect...

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sādhu, they take pleasure in real happiness. Satyanandi. Rāmante yoginam ante satyananda. They do not know what is satya, so how they will take pleasure?

Dr. Patel: They are ātmārāma.

Prabhupāda: Para satya dhīmahi. They do not know what is para satyam.

Dr. Patel: Temporarily they get this param satyam... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yogi means satyānanda...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi about temporary pleasure) They go down.

Man: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: The whole, I mean, Japan was practically done, I mean, done to practical death by this opium smoking.

Prabhupāda: In China also. The Britishers, they were taking opium from India and selling there and making money.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Lokanātha: There should not be any medical service in the building, new building, so what about there should be any other place on the land, or they should not...?

Prabhupāda: That we shall do conveniently. It is not very urgent. When there is spare room-then. Medical service is to cure the material disease, not this temporary headache and stomachache. There are so many medical services for these things, but where is the medical service for curing bhava-roga, material disease? That is wanted. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Medical service does not give any guarantee that there will be no more disease. Our service is guarantee, there will be no more birth, death, old age and disease. That is the difference. (pause) Mauritius, I was suffering so much from dental pain, I never went to the dentist; I invented my medicine, and it cured. (laughter)

Harikeśa: Now everyone else is using it here.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: I taught them all, and they're all using it now. Or they will all be using it.

Prabhupāda: They like it?

Harikeśa: Oh, yes. The best.