Prabhupāda: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them. Then, after a few minutes, he said, "No. The hell is very dangerous." "How?" "There is no newspaper." "Oh, horrible." (Laughter) Because in your western countries everyone is fond of newspaper. So he stressed, he hit the point, that "There is no newspaper." So we have to hit to the point that there is no tax-man. So what is your question?
Tax (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So the florist is given a certain tract of land free, and let him produce flower and make business. But the quantity of flower I require for my temple, he must supply daily. Similarly, the bandsman, he should come and play band. Everything was on land distribution. That was the system. And tax was paid to the government. Not by assessment. Uh, assessment... Whatever your land production is there, you give to the government one-fourth. That's all. If you have produced 1,000 mound grains, you have to give to the government 250 mounds. And if you have produced 100, then you give 25. So there is no question of harassment. Whatever is the production is there... So these profession is accepted from Vedic time, different kinds of men engaged in different kinds of activities. Maybe a florist, maybe a potter, maybe a cobbler, maybe anything, grain producer... So many, society requires so many things. So according to Vedic system, there is a class, and Bhāgavata says that "You are engaged in your occupational duty; so whether you are getting success by such occupational duty?" The Vedic system does not condemn anyone.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (4): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. To the members, not to the public. It is very difficult for import-export, and sales tax, this, that, so many botherations government has created. Therefore our proposal is that... Thank you. We don't sell. No. Simply who becomes a member, we give him. You give us something, and whatever we have got, we give you. Business finished. Not finished, but business established. (laughs) Then if you read our books, if you inquire, then we get opportunity to explain. And our distribution of books means that is indirectly propagating our mission. Yes. So therefore we have adopted this way, that only to the members. That's all. We have printed that "These books are not for sale in India." Yes. Because the government machine is so implicated-sale tax, this tax, that tax...
Guest (3): You can sell, but not in India.
Prabhupāda: No, India, we can sell, but as soon as we sell, oh, there are so many impediments, this tax... We cannot trust.(?) That is next. When we see that we have got enough members, so this money which you pay for our membership, this will be utilized for starting press and reprinting books. Yes. But another difficulty is this class of high class printing you cannot have in India. No. You have seen our Kṛṣṇa Book and Teachings of Lord Caitanya? Any books. Eh?
Guest (3): In Bombay you can get.
Prabhupāda: No. We took quotation from Times of India press about our, this Back to Godhead magazine. They quoted, "Two rupees, twelve annas," cost price. Now at what price we shall sell?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: He would go around and announce.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. No more Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they... Just like in Russia we are afraid or China, yes. They will immediately arrest. So this declaration was there, public. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na, no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government... Our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russians, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russians, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Vicious civilization. Simply increasing, increasing, increasing. And the government taking tax; therefore, he has to prepare roads. So in your country, the more the motorcar increasing, the more flying over, more bridges...
Śyāmasundara: More problems.
Prabhupāda: More problems. Just like in Madras we saw, they are also imitating.
Śyāmasundara: Little tiny... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Little ti... (chuckles)
Devotee (1): A little tiny flyover.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are advancing.
Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, all of them become nullified and this rascal comes forward to defy all the ācāryas and push some new theory. Just see. This is going on. (Sanskrit) In the Varāha Purāṇa it is stated that some of the rākṣasas, they will take advantage of Kali-yuga and take birth in brāhmaṇa families, so he is one of them, this rākṣasa. And now he is suffering for that. Greatest calamity, you see? And according to Vedic injunction, the king if he levies tax from the subjects who are sinful, then he has to partake of the sinful action and he'll have to suffer. So, this rascal became the president of India, it is the position of king and on the (indistinct) of him he supported the slaughterhouses and levied taxes and he took high salary, enjoyed it. Now he is suffering the effect, sinful effect. Now in his living condition he has lost his brain. He, practically dead but living condition, it is very precarious condition. One is living actually but his brain is not acting, worse than a madman. So, this is the result of the rākṣasa statement. Yes, go on. (end)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted to deal with Value Added Tax, and I will go up from 1,400 pounds a year to 1,700 or 1,800 pounds a year. I'm not sure of my new salary because I'm starting on Monday.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That means our 150 pounds per month?
Ian Polsen: Less the tax.
Devotee: About 4,500 a year, dollars.
Ian Polsen: Do you deal in percentages?
Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So, make something like that, because I cannot tax my brain with the administration.
Devotee: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Well, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa will be in Hyderabad and we can ask him to do it.
Prabhupāda: Weak, weak I am. Physically I am weak and besides that, if I have to see to the administration then I cannot think of writing books and how to present our philosophy to be understandable by the people. Therefore the administration is divided. Now you do, little intelligently. We have got still respect. Keep our standard. The people will like us. People wants to give us help, just like this big sannyāsī, one of the biggest sannyāsīs, Gangesvarananda(?), he is attracted. He is a man of immense resource, men and money he has. Immense resource.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only duplicate. You cannot even understand properly. Do you... To understand the Vedic philosophy, you have to tax your brain. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted as a great book of philosophy all over the world. And... Now wherefrom this brain came out. Apart from accepting Kṛṣṇa as God, take it, the language, take the language, the philosophy, the thoughts. How great they are. Now how can you say that people had no higher brain. Within hundred years everything has grown up. All these rascals. What is the Darwin's age?
Prabhupāda: You, you work very hard. This rascal government takes taxes and spend unnecessarily. That's all. This is their intelligence. A set of asses. That's all. They have no sympathy "that this hard-earned money is coming from the public, and we are spending like anything." But nobody can check. This is going on. And they're giving another bluff. "Don't worry. I am going another planet."
Brahmānanda: Yeah, right. Another one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "From there, I shall bring more dust."
Brahmānanda: Another future.
Prabhupāda: More dust. Now you have got handful of dust. I'll bring tons of dust. Don't.... And if I... "Oh, yes, now we shall get tons of dust." The rascal does not know, dust is dust, and tons... What is the meaning?
Prabhupāda: Useless, all... And taxation. No security and ninety-nine per cent taxation. Just see the fun. They are very much accurate to take taxation. And there is no guarantee of security. This is the position.
David Wynne: Has it ever been perfect?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
David Wynne: Has it ever been on earth in the material world perfect with...?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
David Wynne: It has.
Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago, it was all perfect. The whole world, this planet, was being ruled by one king. And they were all happy. That is in the history. Five thousand years ago. Maybe less, in three thousand years ago the history was different. The difficulty is that as soon as one is lost of his culture, he becomes an animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the difference between human being and animal. Human being must be with culture. Animal cannot be cultured. So a human being without culture, he's no better than animal. That culture is lost. They have missed the aim of life.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is there, described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The, the governmental power will go to the rascals and thieves, rogues. And their only business will be how to exploit the people. So one side, by not sufficient rain, there will be scarcity of foodstuff, and one side, the government will tax like anything. In this way, people will be so much harassed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This will be done in Kali-yuga. And gradually, there will be no supply of grains. Especially rice, wheat, sugar, milk, these things will be finished. So people will be obliged to take flesh. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Śyāmasundara: In that case, is there any hope in a movement like ours to rectify the situation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they take to Kṛṣṇa co... That is also stated, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Kīrtanād, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can become free from all these calamities and go back to home, back to Godhead. Only Kṛṣṇa conscious people will be free from all these calamities. Others will have to suffer.
Prabhupāda: And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa and kara-pīḍita. One side, there will be no rain, and there will be scarcity of food grain, and government will tax heavily. In this way, people will become mad and they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. This is the foretelling also. This is going to happen. Actually, people are being perplexed in that way. There is scarcity of food, and there is scarcity of rain, and government tax is increasing every year.
Prabhupāda: The meditation you can do, just like we are also doing meditation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. But meditation as it is, to absorb the mind fully in God's vision, that is very difficult nowadays, at the present moment. People's mind is very disturbed. They cannot actually meditate. Therefore in this age, meditation, chanting the holy name of the Lord, that is recommended, congregationally. Just like we do, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... So there is no need of dark room. Just like this boy. He is also a responsible officer in New York. He is also chanting. All these sannyāsīs. And we have got all these beads. So there is no need of meditating in darkness. We are going on the open street. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... There is no difficulty. Neither we have to select a dark place. Anywhere. Just like I am talking with you, they are chanting. Their chanting is not stopped. So why should you go to a dark room? It is open thing. And it is open for everyone, in any moment. There is no hard and fast rule, that "You have to do like that, do like that." Simply you have to chant, anywhere possible. Suppose if you leave this room, you go on the street, you can chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare... Nobody... There is no taxation. There is no loss.
Prabhupāda: You can produce bolt and nut but you cannot eat. So this is going on. Formerly everyone was in village. Everyone was interested to produce food. Everyone had got land. Even the brāhmaṇas they were not working. The śūdras would work and they produce half and half. Government would tax only 25%.
Guest: Hm.
Prabhupāda: That would cover everything—shelters, income tax, this tax, that tax, also. And if you not produced anything there was no tax. This was the system, everyone was happy. Here one side there is no production, there is scarcity. Another side government taxes 89, 95%.
Guest: 97%.
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense?
Guest: 93%.
Prabhupāda: And everyone is doing everything, whatever he likes.
Prabhupāda: Floating where. Wherefrom the sky came? They are all nonsense. Simply speculating and consuming cheap money from the government. That's all. This is their business. The government is exacting taxes from the hard-working men, and these rascals are devouring this money. That's all. And making theories. That's all.
Hṛdayānanda: There was one big scandal where they found out all the scientists were just taking money. Even by material standards it was unnecessary. It was a very big scandal.
Prabhupāda: It must be they are scandals. They are after money. That's all. Not after knowledge. And what knowledge they have got? Simply speculating and befooling other fools. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is their business. One blind man is befooling other blind men. That's all.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the symptom of material nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Yajñārthe karma. So when you miss this yajña, then everything becomes disturbed. When you become godless then the whole thing will be disturbed. And practically also, if you pay income tax, then government arrangement is everything, nicely going on. And as soon as stop income tax, then whole thing... There is no finance, there is deficit, this, that, so many things. So yajña is yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Everything should be done for the Yajña, for Viṣṇu. Then everything is in order. In Kali-yuga, other, costly yajñas are not possible. Therefore yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Saṅkīrtana. But these rascals will not take. If you say that "This simple yajña, you take it. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. All problems will be solved," they will not believe. They will not take it.
Prabhupāda: That clerical staff, they are making budget. One clerk is saying. "No, no, it must be twenty lakhs." And another clerk says, "No, no, ten lakhs."
Indian Man (4): The same thing here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these clerks settle up budget. And the minister says, "Now it is..." The ministers even tax their brain... This is... Whatever the lower staff, clerks...
Dr. Patel: They are brainless, to tell the truth. The scum of the society has gone... The other day, I said, "Who are the ministers today?" The middle class of people, those rogues and rascals who followed Gandhiji.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...it will be constituted, that. Their business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very piti... Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varṇāśrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the śūdras.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh. It's very exciting, Prabhupāda, because all the, at the present time in the...
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.
Dr. Patel: "I am enjoyer of all the yajñas to whom, whatever and to whomever you are doing." How would you accept that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. The king. The king is the proprietor of all taxes. But he's not a tax collector.
Dr. Patel: Now, now, Chando Bhai, come here.
Prabhupāda: The king...
Guest (3) (Indian man): What do you want?
Prabhupāda: ...is the proprietor...
Dr. Patel: Ahaṁ hi sarva-bhoktānāṁ bhakto māṁ parameśvaram (?).
Prabhupāda: Just like the king, and there are many tax collectors. So tax goes to the king.
Guest (3): Yes, king, yes.
Prabhupāda: It does not belong to the tax collectors.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: You are going... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...rent tax, about... Suppose the father is tenant.
Dr. Patel: Rent tax (indistinct). Rent tax.
Prabhupāda: If the father is tenant.
Guest (1): Rent tax? What is it?
Prabhupāda: No, in the rent tax, suppose the father is tenant, and the father dies, then the son be...
Guest (1): Son gets it.
Prabhupāda: Gets it.
Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) ...to live in the water and to fight with the crocodile, it is not very good position. So there are crocodiles. How long you'll fight with them like that? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We have no difficulty in chanting and working.
Girirāja: "...all the cowherd men who went to Mathurā to pay tax returned home and were struck with wonder at seeing the gigantic dead body of Pūtanā." (break)
Prabhupāda: Here is description of Pūtanā, twelve miles. Big gigantic body. And nobody has seen such gigantic body. But it is described in the Bhāgavatam. (break) ...Mahārāja was so simple, village man, that he accepted Vasudeva, a great mystic. Hare Kṛṣṇa. A devotee says that "I prefer to become a dog in the house of a devotee."
Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.
Prabhupāda: And as soon as you save, they will take income tax.
Mahāṁsa: They have a wealth tax. So if you save that means you have more wealth, and then they tax.
Prabhupāda: And they will "relax" by drinking, "relax" minister. "You save money for our relaxation. That is our necessary. You don't spend money." And people are... Because they see that "If I save, it will be taken away. Let me spend lavishly." Yes. Just like we stayed there at Mr. Patel's house. There are three men only in the family: Mr. Patel, his son and his daughter-in-law. They have got eight cars, big, big cars, Rolls Royce. And about twenty servants. They know that "They will take it away. Better spend." Everyone is doing that. Because they know, "If I save, one day the government will take 98 per cent of my savings. Then why save? Better spend." They cannot give in religious institution. If they say they want to give something, no, that will not allowed. Yes. The whole idea is that "You save, and one day I shall take the whole money and we shall distribute amongst the ministers, Indira Gandhi and company. And we relax. We are working so hard, how to impose taxes upon you. So we must have relax." This is going on. Vicious society. (break) ...open. Let us open. (end)
Prabhupāda: No, no, I think they have. What are the charges against Nixon?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Certainly he already... It all depends on the standards that we want to have for a president. In other words, he has not been convicted, but he has accepted, himself, certain charges, that he has lied and he has tried to save his men, and therefore he has lied, and he has evaded taxes.
Richard Webster: Well, I don't know about that, you see. I'm only...
Prabhupāda: No, there have been so many charges against president Nixon. So no, whatever it may be, we are not concerned. But this is the Vedic principle, that the king or the executive head of the state, the brāhmaṇa and the public leader must be very clean. Otherwise society will be spoiled. That is the injunction.
Prabhupāda: Land belongs to the king, and you take land for cultivation, and you pay 25% tax to the king. That's all. All taxes. If you don't produce, then don't pay tax.
Yogeśvara: Oh, it wasn't forced that you had to pay so much.
Prabhupāda: No.
Atreya Ṛṣi: You pay 25% of what you have produced.
Prabhupāda: What you have produced, that's all. Very simple thing. Everyone was engaged producing. There was no necessity. And here the rascals are advising, produce bolts and nuts, tire, and drill petrol. They are not producing food. And the so-called government men, they are levying taxes, and they are enjoying. They haven't got to produce food. They are killing animals, eating, and digesting with wine. And then woman. That's all. This is their business. And food price is increasing daily. They don't mind because they will print paper, and to the supplier they will give paper. That's all.
Dhanañjaya: Tottenham Court Road. Yes, that big one. Central Point.
Prabhupāda: Yes (laughing). His kleśada is if he keeps tenant, that is more miserable than without keeping tenant. Is it not? Yes. Therefore he keeps without. Because so much taxes will have to be paid that it will be more miserable than keeping tenants. So he is avoiding that. So while constructing, it was troublesome; now, keeping this, it is also troublesome. To find out pleasure they have manufactured so many things. But still, they cannot enjoy it. For few minutes they can enjoy; again it is nonsense. "Let us go away."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Matter, crude matter, origin of the chemicals, the, this carbon, hydrogen, these elements, these also, there is a brain behind it who made these chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to find out who is that brain, who is that scientist. That is real research. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is brahma-jijñāsā. Jijñāsā means enquiry, that "Who is that brain?" Because things are already going on. It is not depending on your so-called research. It is already going on nicely. So your business should be: "Who is that brain behind it?" That should be your research, not that how chemical combination can be... It is already being produced without your so-called scientific knowledge. It is already going on. So as you are taxing your brain that "How this chemical combination produces life?" So that brain is already there. Otherwise how life is coming? What do you think? So why you are trying to find out the chemicals? You find out the brain. As you are taxing your brain to find out the chemicals, the original brain has already done it. Now you find out who is that person who has got such a nice brain.
Brahmānanda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.
Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.
Prabhupāda: For constructing a temple?
Devotee: No, for taxes and but their real reason was they were not happy that he was spending his money constructing a temple. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: Juhu Beach temple?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Don't mind. All the work is going on. It doesn't matter. (break) ...prayer, five times?
Guest: Well, it's the Islamic prayer five times a day but she is compressing it to three times. It's the same prayer.
Prabhupāda: So everyone's son is there, all devotees' son. So from every center some contribution should be given to the Gurukula.
Jayatīrtha: Jaya. That was my proposal. That becomes a kind of tax.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: In a sense, it's like a school tax.
Prabhupāda: But, at the same time, it should be examined how Gurukula is spending money.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. Jagadīśa has made a complete report.
Prabhupāda: Not unnecessarily spending. That is the duty of the GBC.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, about this tax, about this money to be taken from each temple. Gurukula is one of the projects. For example, there may be another project...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: And if you can pay, it is all right. If there is deficit, BBT will pay. You don't bother.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But in this Gurukula project, Śrīla Prabhupāda, temples are having difficulty in paying their debts to BBT already. I don't think they will respond, respond. On one hand, BBT, Ramesvara Prabhu is recommending that we reduce the cost of books, and on the other hand, it's being recommended that the tax for Gurukula be collected.
Prabhupāda: No, no, cost of book... Cost of books?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Not cost. Price of books.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, price of...
Prabhupāda: Cost of selling price.
Prabhupāda: That you can do.
Jayatīrtha: That we discussed with you in Dallas.
Atreya Ṛṣi: What I am recommending is that, instead of reducing the charge to the temple and then collecting a separate tax, do not reduce the charge to the temple. Whatever reduction you were going to give, give that reduction to Gurukula.
Jayatīrtha: Then that means that BBT is paying.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No, BBT is not paying. You're going to give them a reduction. Don't give it to them...
Madhudviṣa: That means giving them unlimited money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Eh?
Madhudviṣa: That means giving them unlimited money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No. Well, for example, let's say I...
Madhudviṣa: If I distribute more books, then Gurukula gets more money. Then... They don't need all that money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This... This is... Contribution is better for you.
Prabhupāda: And Karandhara is taking one thousand dollars?
Jayatīrtha: Well, here's the problem, that because it is a business, people must, that work there, have to get regular salary and pay taxes. Otherwise we can get in a lot of trouble. We can get in a lot of trouble. Maybe Bhagavān may know.
Bhagavān: Well, I have the same thing in France. Spiritual Sky is a legal business. That means you have to legally employ people. But I employ the temple people and just take their salary.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's all right.
Bhagavān: Do you take Karandhara's salary?
Jayatīrtha: No, that's a different thing. Anyway, let me finish the point. The point is that legal salary has to be paid, and then taxes have to paid from that. So for example, Karandhara's salary is not really a good example because he doesn't give fifty percent. But one thousand dollars is the salary.
Bhagavān: Minimum? Minimum salary?
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: That eight hundred, two hundred goes for taxes...
Prabhupāda: No our, our... That was the... Formerly, who was managing?
Jayatīrtha: Formerly, I was managing.
Prabhupāda: Unauthorized loan?
Jayatīrtha: When he left last year, he took loan for five thousand dollars, and he is repaying at three hundred dollars per month. So after taxes, he gets eight hundred dollars. Three hundred dollars goes to BBT. That's five hundred. Now, with the balance, he supports his wife and children, and his wife is giving donations for Deities and so on. So he is not actually...
Prabhupāda: No, that you discuss whether he is... Otherwise I can give you a very first-class man, but he won't charge anything.
Jayatīrtha: Who is that?
Prabhupāda: That I'll not disclose. (laughter) You give him simply, his wife and him, a shelter. He's Indian, I can say.
Satsvarūpa: Nobody should own excessive.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore God's representative, king, is wanted. He'll divide. "All right, you take this." That is king. King means God's representative. Naradeva. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, the king is so respected, guru is so respected, father is so respected—because they give guidance. "You live, Kṛṣṇa conscious, like this." That is their duty. The king is simply planning how to collect taxes, this tax, land tax, sale tax, income tax, this tax, this... So his only business is to plunder: "Let him work, and I shall take it away." And everyone is doing. That is struggle for existence. I want to cheat you. You want to cheat me. That's all. And therefore they are throbbing. There is no solution.
Prabhupāda: ...take the credit. And what is your credit? It is already there for millions of years. Why you are anxious to produce this? Without your help it is being produced. So why you spending our hard-earned money and cheating us? You are cheater. You should be punished. These things are already going on. For you there is no scarcity of life. Then why you are spending our tax to show your talent? What is your talent? You are simply cheating us—"We shall do it..." You do or do not, the things are already there. Why you are taking our money to make research? You are cheating us. You should be punished. You will be punished. Even the state does not punish, you'll be punished by the Supreme Lord because you are cheating. So you can cheat us, but you cannot cheat God. Regular punishment will be there. Millions of years it has been going on, and I want to tell (?) you, just tell (?) you (indistinct). The same example-millions of dogs are barking, and this man has learned how to bark. He is selling tickets. You see? You are driving away barking dog, and because this rascal has learned how to bark, you have to pay for it. What do you say?
Prabhupāda: Attack these rascals strongly in big, big meetings, and slap them, "Why you are cheating and spending our hard-earned money, taxes?" Better follow us. We are giving all credit to the person who has already..., going on with the big man. Very systematically it is going on. For ourself, we are human being. When there are long hairs, we cut. That person's (indistinct) is so nice... nobody's going to cut the (indistinct) ...of the street. But annually, they are already being changed. The whole (indistinct), thrown away. Who's doing that? You must get credit. It is very nice here in the springtime.
Prabhupāda: So, drama is good. Woman dancing will not be very much appreciated here. (break) ...scarcity of grains and government will exact taxes for poor-feeding, and it will be used for their own purpose. These are the Kali symptoms. (break) ...stay in future.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Are they doubting for themselves or for us?
Prabhupāda: For us.
Guest (1): They should doubt for themselves.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, now, from logical point of view...
Guest (1): Our movement, this movement, is Kṛṣṇa's own movement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that they may not... I mean to say, from mundane argument, we are selling these twenty lakhs of worth books monthly, so it is being spread all over the world. And those who are purchasing books, they are intelligent men. Then when they will read, how this movement will stop?
Prabhupāda: That is their defect. They theorize, but when it is practically going to be done, "No money. Get taxes." They will levy tax, and the tax will be divided amongst themselves, that's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially now all the governments all over the world are broke. They have no money.
Prabhupāda: There will be very, very big chaos, this godless civilization. And it is distinctly said, "There will be no grain, no sugar, no milk." These things will be stopped. Eat your sons and daughter. You are very much fond of eating meat. Eat your son. They will do that. I think they are doing now. You know that?
Guest: In Africa, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not Africa.
Prabhupāda: All right, parasite or not, but we are not working and getting our food.
Tripurāri: They say because we're begging from them. They are buying for us.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you stop? You are forced to give us. You stop. If we are begging from you, you stop it. But you cannot stop. You have to give us. We are showing that we are beggar, but we are taxing, exacting tax from you. You can think whatever you like.
Makhanlal: The government is also begging.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if we are begging, then you stop it. That is in your hand. We are not depending on you. (end)
Prabhupāda: It is not meant for mass people. Only selected fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "If I could make one person to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then my mission would be successful." It is not for mass person. Only the fortunate they can do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by introducing saṅkīrtana, even the mass can take part. When there is saṅkīrtana, everyone joins. And by joining in that way, they will become purified.
Amogha: In Sydney, the city council once tried to stop us, legally, from chanting in the streets. First they arrested us two years ago, but then they spent many dollars of tax money to prepare a case for the court, and they didn't even tell us. They had the court session, and the judge ruled that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting in the streets is good. It adds color to the city and is not illegal. Why you are saying this is illegal? This is their right. And it makes the city more colorful."
Prabhupāda: Nice judge. God gave him sense.
Paramahaṁsa: In the newspaper yesterday there was an article about New York City. The city government is going bankrupt because they... They have asked the President for 1,500 million dollars in emergency aid. Because of crime and dirtiness and noise, all the rich people are leaving New York, and they can't get any taxes from the poor people. So they don't have money to pay to run the city.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen. New York is very dilapidated, many quarters. And especially Second Avenue, those are very dirty. The... On the Fifth Avenue, that Central Park is also very dirty. This civilization will collapse. It cannot be run on. Fourth-class men, I tell. Because it is conducted by the fourth-class men. Ask that gentleman why they are asking. Are they not fourth-class men? They could not manage?
Prabhupāda: Bank has refused?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, they won't loan any more money because they know the tax money won't come in.
Prabhupāda: Just see the position. The bank is refusing loan to the municipal corporation, city corporation. They have no credit.
Śrutakīrti: So that means the city will increase their taxes on the public.
Prabhupāda: But if the public is moving from the city, where is the source of taxation?
Paramahaṁsa: That's the big problem. All the rich people are leaving because they're getting so much tax and so many other problems. And big business also is leaving.
Prabhupāda: Where they are leaving?
Paramahaṁsa: Just to the suburbs, outside the city.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So therefore many of these communities that they started back in, about ten years ago, 1960's, they have all folded up because there was nothing to hold them together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no engagement. Therefore we are proposing that eat nicely, live nicely, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the engagement. But they have no such engagement. How they will live? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Every living entity wants some pleasure, but this pleasure is finished. Therefore athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now they seek... Let them seek out pleasure from Brahmān. So that they do not know. Now the situation is then no monies. Then they will tax. Those who are living, they will be disturbed by taxation. They have no other means. Kara-piditaḥ. Kara means tax, and pidita means disturbed. They will be like that.
Amogha: And they will also be forced out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Such a huge city, if there is no money, they will tax those who are living there more and more. That is the only alternative. If you want actually peaceful life, then produce your own necessities of life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read these books. This is the only solution. There is no other solution. What is the use of running fifty miles by car to go to one's office and sit down in the office and make plan how to exploit others? This way? This is the business:" Make some plan, bluff people, advertisement, and money will come." This is their business. They are not giving anything, simply bluffing. Just like crossword. They are engaged in making solution. You know that, crossword?
Amogha: The crossword? You mean the puzzle?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the whole day they are making solution. This is their means of earning money. I have seen it. (pause) (chuckles) He has taken that word very seriously, "fourth-class men." The whole civilization is condemned and producing fourth-class men. And that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Social welfare. So if they find social welfare, why not help? Why they bring politics? If actually there is social welfare here, why they should not support it?
Director: Yeah, well you're right. But in our society, minister is elected to carry out certain policies—not what he wants but what the people have voted. And they are taxed to support this.
Prabhupāda: If your policy is social reformation...
Director: Social reform is not our policy.
Prabhupāda: Then, social welfare.
Director: Just to look after those who are in trouble.
Prabhupāda: Well, everyone is in trouble. At the present moment even the ministers are in trouble.
Jayatīrtha: Gambling is becoming much more widespread now in America.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have no good business.
Jayatīrtha: The government is using it as a good way of getting more taxes and profits. The government is handling all the lotteries and horse races themselves now more and more.
Prabhupāda: They also get good excise tax from liquor.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. A very big source of revenue.
Brahmānanda: In Germany the government supports prostitution.
Prabhupāda: Germany?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand this. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am expanded by My energy everywhere." So the everywhere how you can go? You love Kṛṣṇa, and your love will go everywhere. You pay tax to the government, and the tax is distributed in so many departments. So it is not your business to go every department and pay tax. Pay to the treasury of the government; it will be distributed. This is intelligence. And if you say that "Why shall I pay to the treasury house? I shall pay the this department, that department, that department, that department," you can go on, but it will never be sufficient, neither complete. So you may love humanity, but because you do not love Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not love the cows; you send them to slaughterhouse. So your love will remain defective. It will never be complete. And if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you will love even the small ant. You will be not interested even to kill even an ant. That is real love.
Prabhupāda: It is not successful. That I was pointing out. It has caused the disaster because the whole women become dependent on the welfare gift of the government, and the government has to raise tax heavily for this purpose. The tax is given by the general public, but it is going for one individual person, and I have heard that government is embarrassed. They are now making enquiry about the welfare gifts.
Nitāi: There's many scandals there.
Prabhupāda: There are now so many scandals. So these are the problems. Why? The man leaves the woman uncared for.
Prabhupāda: Is not that a problem to the government?
Nitāi: A huge problem.
Harikeśa: Taxes are very high. Everyone is complaining about taxes being too high.
Prabhupāda: Problem is already there and if they think it is not problem, then what can be said? By nature's way, if the husband takes care of the wife and children, this problem is solved immediately. But the man takes advantage. He goes away after making the woman pregnant. And the woman is embarrassed and the government is embarrassed.
Prabhupāda: They are creating, yearly, motor car to allure them to work and purchase. That is the economic, whole economic basis.
Dharmādhyakṣa: There's a case in Africa when the British took over Africa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they had to charge the natives a tax, let's say, fifty dollars a year, and they would work... To make fifty dollars a year they would... (break) ...transcending dualities.
Prabhupāda: First-class men. Our definition of God is: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. "He has nothing to do." This is God. Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate: "He has nothing to do." He is simply enjoying, dancing with the gopīs, that's all. Why He should go to work? Then what kind of God he is? Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate.
Devotee (1): Distributing books?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the distribution book can be done by the vaiśya, trade. It is a trade. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi, agriculture, giving protection to cows, and distributing or trading. If you have got enough grains you can trade. Make money. If you have got enough vegetables, you can trade. That is the business of vaiśya. So vaiśya does not require any university degree or any... Nobody requires university degree. That is a false thing. And brāhmaṇa should be very highly learned scholar. So the brāhmaṇas will give advice to the kṣatriya how to rule, and the kṣatriya will levy tax, and vaiśyas will produce food. Then the society will be perfect.
Devotee: What kind of tax?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Tax means... Everyone must have some income for maintaining. So brāhmaṇas, they(?) doesn't require any... They will live on the contribution of the society. Because they are giving for free service, so valuable service, knowledge, so they are provided by the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas. So they have no anxiety for earning livelihood. Things are coming. Just like we are maintained. At least people give to me contribution. So similarly, brāhmaṇa will live at the cost of others' contribution. That is source of income. Kṣatriyas, they'll levy tax. Kṣatriya is given land. Now he divides the land. I have got, say, two thousand acres of land. So I divide to the vaiśyas, one thousand this man, one thousand this man, one thousand. So on condition that "I give you this land. You produce foodstuff or utilize any way. You give me twenty-five percent."
Prabhupāda: So he cannot give 300,000 dollars?
Brahmānanda: No, he has no money. He had to pay taxes.
Prabhupāda: So we are paying 300,000. So we are better than him. (break) ...rabbi is a Jew?
Brahmānanda: Yes. So this rabbi, he is a personal friend. He has taken the responsibility for raising the money. Actually the fees were 500,000. He has already raised 200,000. 300,000 to go.
Prabhupāda: And nobody is excusing the fee, the lawyers?
Brahmānanda: No. But now he is writing his book.
Prabhupāda: Yes, another fallacy.
Prabhupāda: Go on. What is the trouble? See. (break)
Dhanañjaya: They stop everyone so they can extract taxes from them. They want to stop every single person, even the buffalo carts. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (to life member:) There was no trouble. It's okay now.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Thank you.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a life member from Nellore.
Member: Nellore, Andhra Pradesh.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: So many things. So many things. The first ignorance is that accepting this body as self. Everyone.
Cyavana: The capitalists are so anxious for money that they exploit this tendency of the living entity to enjoy by tempting him. Every year they create some new way to entice him.
Prabhupāda: And taxation. And the taxation is divided among them. The tax is meant for public welfare. Instead of public welfare, they divide it amongst themselves and enjoy wine, women, motorcar and flesh. That's all. This is going on. All this income tax-plundering process. This income tax means a plan how to take away everything from the actually earning members of the society. That is income tax. And that is divided amongst administrators. That's all.
Cyavana: Here it is very prominent. The workers in the fields, they are barely making enough to live from day to day. But the planters who live in France, they are taking millions of rupees and living very comfortably.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Communism is coming. Go this way?
Prabhupāda: Gallons of blood, waste.
Cyavana: In what way?
Prabhupāda: By talking with him, with the rascal and foolish. You tax your brain and spoil your energy, blood.
Harikeśa: Spend so much food.
Cyavana: So we should do that.
Prabhupāda: Unless you are not a preacher. You should be prepared. Yes. They cuts, sacrifices life, what to speak of wasting blood. Wasting life. This is preacher. Then he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa: "He has done so much for Me."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa will give more and more energy.
Prabhupāda: He is going to die for Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is recognized. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). You become immediately very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Your business is how to become very intimate to Kṛṣṇa. That will be served by preaching.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tea?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it. And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done. There was a tea taxes committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America… Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as "tea taxes committee." The tea taxes committee, in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote… One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites…
Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We… Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all.” When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.
Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.
Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues.
Harikeśa: It seems unless there is some monarch who is ruling over the whole world, one personality...
Prabhupāda: No, not... Yes, whole world. He must be rājarṣi, just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, representative of Kṛṣṇa. He can divide to small kings, "Now you look after such tract of land," and he divides. In this way there will be peace. No tax. If you are unable to produce anything, then no tax. Why should you levy tax from the poor man?
Harikeśa: What about those people who don't want to work? They are lazy.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: What about lazy people?
Prabhupāda: Let them become śūdra. Let them become servant. After all, unless he works, he cannot get his food. So let him become servant. He has to work to get food. No property. He should not be given any property. If you work, you can get food. Just like animal.
Harikeśa: So a government's duty would be to abolish this false standard of money, and then automatically...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Government's only duty is that government gives me land and I pay tax: "Whatever I produce, take one fourth." Finish. All taxes. If I don't produce, there is no tax. That's all. That is the business between the government and the public. That's all.
Harikeśa: If the public are giving like one quarter of a perishable item, what does the government do with that? Let's say they were growing some vegetables, so they give one quarter of that to the government. What would the government do with that? They've got so many tons of vegetables.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Formerly the Manchester people were exploiting Indians. Now the Ahmedabad people, they have learned how to exploit. That's all. And government is satisfied because they pay tax. "Never mind. The workers may suffer, go on suffering." This is going on. And they have lost their own culture, and they have been taught how to drink, how to eat meat. This is... (break) ...fact is that Indians cannot work so hard as the Western people can work. The climate does not allow. India's climate is good for peaceful living, less work, and brain engaged in spiritual advancement. That is India's gift. They are not meant for hard work. Hard work is not required for anyone. This is animal civilization, to work very hard. Then what is the difference between animal and man? A man has to work so hard like animal; then what is the difference? Here in the Western countries their climate is also suitable, and they are taught to work very hard like animals. And they do that. Therefore materially they become so-called prosperous for committing suicide. Is it not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is true.
Indian man (1): So they got to order everybody. That's what I believe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has to tax his brain. Kṛṣṇa has given advice, everything: "Divide the society into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." And then the brāhmaṇas should give nice advice, teacher. The kṣatriyas should govern, and the vaiśyas should produce food and give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, then trade. And śūdras should help, worker. Here I see the Europeans, they are working as the kṣatriyas, government, and the Indians they are working as vaiśya, and the Africans, they are as śūdras. But where is brāhmaṇa? There is no brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not good. It will suffer. And if they accept, the government men accept our advice and do accordingly—we don't want government post, but we can give good advice how to govern—then everyone will be happy. That they are losing. There is no good head. They are simply thinking in their animal way, "Why the Indians should come here?" And the Indians are, "Why whites are neglecting us?" This is going on because there is no good engagement. So this is essential, that the society should be divided into four classes of men: the first-class men-lazy intelligent; second-class men-busy intelligent; and third-class men-lazy fool; and fourth-class men-busy fool.
Prabhupāda: And now they are trying to drive away Indians.
Indian: Now they have brought a income tax official all from India here. So the Indian people, they were giving their money to the African and taking money to London and U.K., here and there. So now they have brought out from India. They are very strict. People still take money, but they have more to take than the African. The African people are very poor, and they were giving them so much money and taking money out of it. It is difficult for them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These people can be brought under control by bribing. There is no problem. They have no moral strength, and poor. They will accept bribe. I think by bribing it is still going on. Otherwise how they can stop this bribing? That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: They'll... If they chant, they will forget it.
Mahāṁsa: Yes. And the government is pushing toddy sales because they make money on it. They make tax.
Prabhupāda: They want money, that's all.
Mahāṁsa: So they want to encourage.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now they're bringing prohibition.
Mahāṁsa: Where? Only in Madras there is now.
Prabhupāda: No, the government is now thinking of seriously, to stop. If the government simply prohibits these four things—meat-eating, and drinking, gambling, and illicit sex—the whole country will change immediately.
Prabhupāda: So that is described in the Bhāgavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. They will be harassed by famine, taxation, and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Āchinna. That is already told.
Haṁsadūta: Marx, he studied history from a given point and then he just calculated the consequences.
Prabhupāda: No, that point is not new point. It is already stated five thousand years ago. So what credit he has got? If I say, "Now you are thirty-four years. At the end of hundred years you will die," is that discovery?
Haṁsadūta: No. But that was...
Prabhupāda: Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read in the papers yesterday that the crime rate has gone up in United States.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That must. If everyone is a criminal, so how the crime rate can decrease?
Harikeśa: Everybody cheats as much as possible, on income tax and everything.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even President Nixon had cheated on his income tax return, but they caught him later on.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not cheating. It is... The income tax department is a cheating department, so everyone tries to avoid this cheating department. That's it.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. People hire lawyers, very expensive lawyers, just to find loopholes in their tax statements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The cheating begins from the government. They are giving some paper and asking people, "Here is ten thousand dollars." This is cheating. "I promise to pay." But when the government is failure, where is the promise? Who pays? This is cheating.
Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. (break)
Tejās: ...tax division, the clerks will come to the various businessmen after they make their first application, and they will tell them... First they will come to them. And immediately a businessman knows, so he gives him 500,000 rupees. And he will say, "Oh, thank you very much. I just came to see you. I wanted to tell you that if you say like this, you will save ten thousand, twenty thousand rupees. But don't say when you are there that I told you." (end)
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Harikeśa: Not close, 'cause you can make a lot of money. It's easier than enacting taxes.
Mahāṁsa: Just like banks.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but when they don't become profitable then they'll close it. That's the point. Milk 'em dry. Instead of the state or the government being the servant of the Deity, they are making the Deity the servant of the government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Money-earning servant.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The tax collector.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...they do not give for so-called religion, it is better. They are not spoiling the money.
Acyutānanda: The head of that Viśva-Hindu went to Delhi to get tax exemption. So they said, "You drop the name Hindu." They said, "No, we will never drop the name Hindu. Even if you don't give us tax exemption, we will be without the tax exempt but we will never give up our name Hindu."
Prabhupāda: (break) Whatever whimsically you make your law, that is law. Actually they are not fighting. Hindu law means Manu-saṁhitā. So who is pressing them that "We don't require any law except this"? And where is that Hindu, strong Hindu? Hindu means Manu-saṁhitā. (break) ...mānave prāhur. This Manu. Original instruction is coming from Manu. (break) ...the word Manu, the word mānava has come. Just like he has started that mānava-dharma. Mānava-dharma means Manu. That he does not know. From Manu, mānava has come, just like from sādhu, sādhava has come. They do not know even grammar. These leaders, they do not know even grammar. (break) ...chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: How it can be done?
Jayapatāka: That he is failing to do, but he is thinking, anyway. He told me. So many taxes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Material conception.
Jayapatāka: Bribe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) We should return now.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Jayapatāka: (break) ...from Vrndavana has composed some Sanskrit poems for Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: Which Śāstrījī?
Jayapatāka: That you preached to last year at the festival time. There were seven śāstrīs, four of which came to Māyāpur, three of which blooped. One is still left. He is very eager to become initiated. He is very hard working and sincere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he do there?
Jayapatāka: He is teaching Sanskrit to the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...their society, and they are advocating, "No temple or Deity worship." So one boy, so he was a member of this society. So there is Śītalā-mātā, the goddess of smallpox. So he had some trouble in the house, smallpox. So he thought of going to the Śītalā-mātā's temple. So he's entering the temple and seeing in this way, "Mother, I am your devotee but they will tax me. Therefore I am going out." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this man, he is afraid of God, but he has to preach there is no God. So he was feeble.
Prabhupāda: This is Kali-yuga. Durbhikṣa-kārāpīḍita. One side, government disturbance, one side, no food, and they let them live very happily. That's all. This is their conception of happiness. Tactation(?), taxation, and no food, and natural disturbance.
Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...country in my zone. Many times big tidal waves come and many, many towns are simply carried away into the ocean and destroyed. Thousands of people... Every so many years gigantic waves come, and thousands of people are killed and many towns are destroyed. (break)
Prabhupāda: Observe. You have got any pañjikā?
Jayapatākā: Yes. Just now bringing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is mention what to do.
Acyutānanda: They're doing it by taxing...
Guru-kṛpā: With their land-ceiling, they are banning all the..., more than twenty acres.
Acyutānanda: They have a law. If you have the high, dry land, you can have fifty acres per person. And if you have wet land, rice growing, irrigated, you can only have twenty-five acres. So I said, "Suppose you have dry land, and then you irrigate..."
Prabhupāda: The difficulty is that they have no standard idea, their. So they can do anything. And because they are in power, they can pass law whimsically, whatever he likes. (break) ...that bābu candra mantrī. (?) You know this?
Acyutānanda: "Many kings and many..."
Prabhupāda: No, no. Bābu candra rāya. It is a sarcastic word, bābu, bābu candra. Mean a foolish...
Yaśodānandana: I think that some of the comments of Your Divine Grace, some of the purports of the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if they come to the notice of the Indian government, it may give us some... They may seriously consider about banning, because in that one purport you openly criticize how unfortunate the citizens are because they have a woman as the prime minister, and in another purport you openly say that the citizens should keep their, some of their treasury secret, which is against the principle of their income tax.
Prabhupāda: So, I have... There is no support in the śāstra?
Guru-kṛpā: There is support, but according to their idea and their so-called...
Prabhupāda: Then they confront Bhāgavata. Bhāgavatam...
Children: "Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Acyutānanda: ...neighborhood, Cāṇakya...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So Cāṇakya is authority. So I am quoting Cāṇakya. What is my fault?
Acyutānanda: No, they cannot... They cannot...
Prabhupāda: Cāṇakya is authority. Otherwise, why you have named "Cāṇakya Purī"? He's as good as Gandhi and other big, big men. So it is said, viśvāso naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca.(?)I am innocent. I am quoting authority.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keep.
Prabhupāda: Not.... Cheat the government. There was no income tax, but still they used to keep in big, big jugs all gold coins and put into the..., underneath the ground. Nobody could understand where is the money. Very easy thing.
Pañcadravida: Hoarders.
Prabhupāda: And he did not disclose at the time of death; then it remained. And then, after some years, somebody digging, he got.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a nice example given in Nectar of Devotion about the digging for a treasure.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. (break) ...shenai on the gate, that is nice. Jayapatāka?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatāka.
Jayapatāka: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: They should play shenai on the gate, and here kīrtana will go on, not that kīrtana will be stopped to hear their dundubhi.
Prabhupāda: But for this purpose they are maintaining huge police force, and you are earning money and tax, that's all.
Rāmeśvara: The police all accept bribes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: They all accept bribes or they do some illegal business themselves with the criminals they capture.
Prabhupāda: Yes, regular... Every criminal has got organization to bribe the police. And the police does not take directly, and some in-between man, agent, he collects from the criminal and gives to the police. In India this is going on. I know that. A via-media man, he makes fortune. Yes. Whatever is collected, ten percent he takes, and balance is given to the police. There is a confectioner in Delhi. He is selling jalebi. You know jalebi?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They cannot also keep clean even Central Park. Then what to speak of Vṛndāvana? Things are becoming very, very...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here in Vṛndāvana the people also pay taxes?
Prabhupāda: Yes, without tax.... (break)
Tripurāri: ...in the day sometimes, and now they are giving prasādam to the devotees free, without charge. (break) ...stay?
Prabhupāda: They stay at the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tripurāri: Those are the originals?
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Jaya. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is bound to fail.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you voluntarily give, it will be failure. You will try to find out ways how you can take everything.... Just like income tax. The government is trying to take more money from the public, and public is hiding them in black market. This is going on. Nobody is.... Even your Nixon, he also hidden some money from the income tax. Why? He is the head of the government. So one side, he is head of the government, try to take money from the public, but he personally himself, he is hiding. Why this defect?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say that the system encourages man's greed, whereas their system...
Prabhupāda: No, no, system.... If the.... You cannot change the mind. If you have got mind to enjoy more, by force if I try to force you not to enjoy more, give to the state, this is a struggle. This is not perfect process.
Prabhupāda: But you (unclear) you rascal, you'll die. If there is no sun, you'll die. Therefore you must be obliged, feeling every moment that God is giving sun, you're living. God is so kind that you're given sun so that you can live. So you must be obliged to God. (Sanskrit) bhūtāni, bhūtāni jayanti. So saṁsanti, saṁkleśa (indistinct) santi.(?) You are living on mercy of God. You're so ungrateful. You're so rascal, you do not give Him thanks. Even the sun. In this world tax collector comes. If you say "Why shall I give you tax? It is already there. It was before my coming. How I was there. And still there. Why you're asking me tax?" Can you say like that? "Oh it was already there." There or there, if you enjoy, you must pay tax.
Prabhupāda: Obligation we must follow. That I have already said, that you have obligation to the state, you must pay tax. Otherwise you are criminal. So obligation must be there. If somebody is giving you protection, you must be obliged. If you don't feel obliged, then you'll be punished.
Hari-śauri: Gratitude is a sign of intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. (break) ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, (Sanskrit). (break) ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it the whole stack, everything. "Oh, I've got it free.
Prabhupāda: That is your business.
Rāmeśvara: What is the purpose of the cheating?
Candanācārya: Prabhupāda said to ask for taxes.
Prabhupāda: Lābha, pūjā, pratiṣṭhā. These three things are materially wanted. Some material profit, some reputation and some.... Eh?
Devotees: Distinction.
Prabhupāda: Adoration. These are the material demands.
Hari-śauri: Because, originally, it was built up as a big thing between Russia and America, who would get to the moon first.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now they are shaking hands, and none of them has gone. "I thank you."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, intoxication. And see practically, at least take some certificate from the health.
Hṛdayānanda: If they find out that the solution is with God, they would rather have the disease.
Prabhupāda: Apart from God, see practically.
Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...money from the taxes on these things. They don't want them to be abolished. The government make thousands and millions of dollars by taxing the cigarettes and liquor; so they don't want these things abolished. (break)
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhogilal Patel had twenty-three cars. Just for him and his wife and father. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are spending money to save income tax. They have got enough income. So instead of giving to the income tax, they are thinking that "Why not provide some serfers(?), some drivers, some servants, and repair the house every year." In this way, spend money (laughing). It is good policy. Money's distributed to the poor instead of going to the government pocket.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's got at least thirty-five servants, and it is only father and son and daughter-in-law.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) That's all. No children even.
Prabhupāda: India also, that.... "Make the rich pay."
Hari-śauri: In England also that's the prevalent theme now. That has accounted for the demolishing of the aristocracy in England more than anything, the government heavily taxing them so that anyone with money now is...
Prabhupāda: It is finished. In England aristocracy is finished.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They're all selling their property. They cannot maintain. Even the Queen cannot maintain her establishment, but because it's government.... The Buckingham Palace was not repaired for many years. Last time, when I went there, I saw it is repaired now. Before that, three, four times I went. It is blackish. The stone.... It is made of stone. The stone had become black. That means many years it was not repaired.
Prabhupāda: They have only one house—with great difficulty.
Rāmeśvara: We have the whole block.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) There is law, income tax, supertax, welfare to the..., so many taxes? No, only income tax.
Kīrtanānanda: No, there are many taxes. Sales tax...
Prabhupāda: Sales tax is there. But in India that..., at a stage, the whole amount is taxed.
Kīrtanānanda: There's an estate tax, an inheritance tax...
Prabhupāda: No, no, mean at a stage.... This much, this much, this much.... And at a.... There is a stage-ninety-five percent government's. You keep only five percent.
Rāmeśvara: In India?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They even tax you when you die.
Rāmeśvara: That's in America also. If your father dies and he leaves you his wealth, the government will take half of it. You have written in the Fourth Canto that because the government is so expert in taxing, the people are becoming so expert in cheating the government...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...to avoid the taxes. So the government is simply training the people how to cheat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: And then you wrote that one day the people will..., the taxes will become so great that the people will revolt, refuse to pay, and then the government will be finished. There will be chaos. You're giving all these warnings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've also warned them about taking the oil from the earth.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization.
Prabhupāda: ...monkey.
Hari-śauri: It's a bit odd. They're busy building new attractions for the park, but they can't even keep the place clean. Everything is completely dirty and run down. No one will want to come anyway. They do that, though. They have a certain amount of things that they construct new so that the people will be thinking, "Oh, our taxes have been spent for our benefit like this." It's to make a show. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...is Canada?
Ambarīṣa: No, this side over here.
Devotee (1): Way over there.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Satsvarūpa: Detroit Yacht Club. Boat owners. (break) ...by some Catholic monks who were keeping some drug rehabilitation. They were leasing it from us. We still have a lease to the owner. So they are subleasing it. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...to stop drug habit?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Forty-eight cents?
Satsvarūpa: I don't know. Ambarīṣa? How much are cigarettes?
Ambarīṣa: I think they're seventy-five cents. They are very highly taxed.
Prabhupāda: Who cares for it? (laughter) Wine is highly taxed in India. When I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, he was manufacturing alcohol(?) for medicinal purposes. The cost was one rupee eight annas per gallon. The government was levying duty. For medicinal purpose, five rupees per gallon, whereas purchasing liquor, fifty-eight. The government would take profit out of it, fifty-eight rupees.
Prabhupāda: Without them, the factories cannot go on. That's all. The white men cannot work so hard. How they...? No gentleman can do that. This kind of work is meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore they cannot say anything. They require. And they know that their money will be taken away again by supplying them wine. They'll pay, and next moment, the wine merchant will take away. And the government will get huge profit without doing anything. And excise tax. Excise tax, government hasn't got to invest or do anything—simply take the tax.
Hari-śauri: Every time they put a tax increase, it's always on beer and cigarettes. Always, every time. And motorcars. Because they know the people are so much addicted that even if they squeeze and squeeze and squeeze, they will still get more, and the people will still pay.
Prabhupāda: And addicted people, they, they're after the.... Get money some way or other. Beg, borrow or steal. So these black men especially, they are expert. They are not expert in begging, but borrowing and stealing.
Prabhupāda: But to accept this creed requires some big qualification. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in the Caitanya-ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Some selected, fortunate persons can accept. Kona bhāgyavān. Not everybody.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
It is not very easy thing to accept Kṛṣṇa as everything and surrender there. It is not so easy. But it is possible if one is fortunate. Kona bhāgyavān. But anyone can accept it. What is the difficulty? But they'll not do it. Therefore unfortunate. What is the difficulty, Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Does Kṛṣṇa say anything extraordinary that we cannot perform? Nothing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things: "You just think of Me always-man-manā. You just become My devotee, worship Me and offer your obeisances unto Me." Four things. Where is the difficulty? Anyone can think of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma. Where is the loss? Is there any loss? Is there any tax if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Just make an experiment and see the result. There is no loss, there is no tax, there is no botheration. Why don't you do it? Not at all difficult. If you compare with other system, this is the easiest.
Prabhupāda: So that means formerly this was the system. If there is any vacant land, one can go and live there. There's no question of permission. When you live there and you make your professional activities, then the king will come, take little tax.
Kīrtanānanda: That used to be the system here. They called it "homesteaders." If you would go and make you home there, you could have the land.
Prabhupāda: That is not for the foreigners. If some Chinese men or Indian want to come...
Kīrtanānanda: It used to be. But not anymore for anybody.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Why?
Kīrtanānanda: Because it has become very profitable for people to keep it. Because people are making money on it now.
Prabhupāda: Money they must make; otherwise, why they should come? But what is the objection? Just like in the marketplace, still, in India, the system is, the marketplace, anyone can go and sell his goods, and when he's selling, the proprietor takes some contribution. Not that he has to take permission. He's selling there, that's all right, "Give me some..., a little contribution." The king has the right to tax for maintenance.
Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Less disease. Less brain taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is ideal life. Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious. There is a machine which we call nature. From that machine, everything is coming. But how machine is perfect? And who has discovered this machine?
Kulaśekhara: In London you said they do not know that the butterflies and flowers are painted, but Kṛṣṇa paints them with thought.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"—what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividaiva śrūyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life.
Hari-śauri: They just want some revenue.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are robbing, government, dasyu dharmabhiḥ. It is stated, government will be like rogues. As the rogues and thieves, they take away from you by force, the government will do that. In the court, by income tax, so many people are being harassed.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: There is a large organization called Mafia in this country.
Prabhupāda: Mafia?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mafia, organized criminals, organized like businessmen. They are controlling the politicians by money. But although they are exposing, still it goes on. It is worse than ever.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Explain further.
Prabhupāda: In this way they are getting high salary, and we have to pay tax for that, income tax. This is going on. That means roguism. We have got money. Government will take it away and pay these rascals, scientific research. There are so many foundations in your country. If you ask them, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa conscious," "No, no, no, we don't pay for anything. We pay to the scientists." They will say.
Rādhāvallabha: Now they are going to Mars.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: Now they are going to Mars planet. They have two ships heading for Mars, and they want one to land on July 4th.
Prabhupāda: It has already started?
Rādhāvallabha: Yes. Now they have given up on the moon. Now it is Mars.
Prabhupāda: And the fools are paying for that.
Prabhupāda: That... The same story, that some frogs were there, and children was throwing stone. Then the frogs appealed, "Sir, why you are throwing stone upon us?" "No, we are playing." "So what is play for you, it is death to us." So these rascals are playing, and we have to pay heavy tax for that. This is going on. We are playing, making some scientific research, and who will pay for that? You. You work hard in the factory and pay tax. This is civilization. "You pay tax, and we spend it as we like." Frivolity(?). This is going on. This is the government of Kali-yuga. What can you do?
Devotee (2): "In God We Trust."
Prabhupāda: "What is play to you is death to us." And "Never mind. You die. We play." They have already spent so much money, moon exploration. And that has stopped now, no benefit. They brought some sand and some rock, satisfied. Again the same thing with Mars. But we can say from our poor knowledge that as they have failed in the moon planet, they will fail also in the Mars. Take it down. Note now. Do you know this is all bluff?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be... Because yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tad tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If a chief man practices something, the followers also practice. So a businessman, professor, scientist, philosopher, they chant the holy name of God, there is no taxation, no income tax, but the income is very good. (laughter) So why people do not do it?
Guest (5): (Sanskrit)....
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained by Caitanya,
- nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
- tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
- etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
- durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ
The holy name of God is so powerful, as good as God. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā, He has got thousands of names, hundreds of names, and each name is invested with the power of God Himself. So in this age this chanting of holy name of God is recommended, I can take advantage of it, but I am so unfortunate I have no inclination. So easy thing, but still I am so unfortunate I do not wish to take the name of God.
Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice. Formerly this was the system. Although it was monarchy, even Lord Rāmacandra or similar kings, they were not ruling independently—they were taking advice from learned brāhmaṇas, sages. So the legislative assembly should be composition of intellectual brāhmaṇas. Then the other administrators, the President or the minister, they should be kṣatriyas. In this way, if social organization is made, then there will be perfect peace. If śūdras are allowed to rule over, what they know? Their only aim is that so long he is in the office, "Let me collect some money," that's all. And that will be the latest atmosphere, dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. All the government men will become thieves and rogues. Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force. So people will be very much embarrassed by two things: one thing is taxation, and another thing will be scarcity of food.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They became very enlivened, inspired.
Prabhupāda: In India the sannyāsīs beg, but I did not beg. I sold my Back to Godhead, books. I got income tax free...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You always gave literature.
Prabhupāda: I think this church.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Universalist church. You always gave literature in return for donations you received.
Prabhupāda: That is going on still.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Knowledge..., what is this?
Hari-śauri: It says "Truth, knowledge, vision."
Rāmeśvara: This is a museum.
Hari-śauri: State of New York Memorial to Theodore Roosevelt.
Prabhupāda: Who is this gentleman on the horse?
Rāmeśvara: The government announces to the public that so much money from the taxes has to be spent on this space exploration. But according to the information that you're giving us it is not possible for them to be spending so much money to photograph Phoenix so they must be stealing the money.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?
Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are so advanced.
Kīrtanānanda: But there's a lot of talk now that they aren't, so far as income tax is concerned.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: So far as our collecting money, they are going to maybe change some laws. There's a lot of talk about that now.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've done that in India.
Hṛdayānanda: The religious leaders have become such cheaters that the governments are thinking "Why shouldn't they pay taxes? They're just ordinary people."
Prabhupāda: Best thing is collect and spend, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise from the roof. So it is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think also that right now there's a lot of devotees here, so it's a little taxing, but once the festival's over, they will all be returning to their respective centers. It will be much calmer. (break) In the night?
Prabhupāda: I do not take anything at night.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Morning, you are drinking milk? Is it...?
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those cows are unique, that a cow can give her own weight in milk in eleven days.
Prabhupāda: They are selling milk also.
Prabhupāda: That is the punishment for this age. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There will be scarcity of rain and there will be scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. And people will become mad on account of these three things. Anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa, karopī.(?)
George Harrison: It's getting dryer in England each year. It's probably going to end up as a desert in another hundred years.
Prabhupāda: They expect like that?
George Harrison: Well, I don't know. I think the whole world's changing. Somebody said it's the pollution, leaves so much..., there's so much of the oceans now with polluted and with oil on the top, there's not so much evaporation anymore.
Prabhupāda: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.
Harikeśa: He wasn't interested to help for the tax exemption.
Hari-śauri: Yes, you told me before, Bon Mahārāja and Tīrtha Mahārāja, they were writing all these big, big men, but they told them frankly, that "I'm not going to do anything for you."
Prabhupāda: None of them. Formerly, a British governor, secretary, was a friend. You could get some service from him. The Britishers they knew the etiquette that if friends ask some help, I must help you. That is etiquette.
Hari-śauri: Now there's so much self-interest, they don't...
Prabhupāda: It is expected.
Hari-śauri: Still, due to the British presence, isn't that the main reason why India has become so degraded now?
Prabhupāda: Yes, from...
Hari-śauri: Because they introduced so many bad things?
Prabhupāda: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.
Prabhupāda: After deducting.
Dayānanda: After deducting taxes.
Prabhupāda: It is better than USA. You were getting six hundred there?
Dayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you are getting more? Why Gargamuni advised you to give up? I chastised him, "Why you have given him such advice? He's a gṛhastha, he must have some money. He has to take care of the children." Anyway, you have got better job now and better service also. Kṛṣṇa has awarded you for your service. Stick to it. Don't... If you like to serve here, you can be permanently settled. No, what is their rules?
Dayānanda: It is quite easy, because they need foreigners to come and work here.
Prabhupāda: So that is very, very good.
Devotee: The government encourages this spending of money while the citizens are unhappy and cannot be safe in their own city.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have such government. Dasyu-dharyogi (?). They will snatch your money by force. You cannot say anything. That is punishment. Godless civilization, that is punishment, that your own government will snatch, by force, take away your hard labor accumulation, by taxes. That is written in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You cannot fight. You will be harassed in so many ways you will become mad. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Hopelessly you will leave hearth and home and go to the forest. This godless civilization will be punished like that. That day is coming like that. Nobody will be peaceful. They will be mad. Just like when a man becomes mad, he commits suicide, he blows off his head. This will be done. There will be no rain—this is one punishment—and scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. They are all mentioned. What more suffering you want? But still they are advancing, scientists.
Prabhupāda: Godless civilization, sinful activities. The reaction will increase, no rainfall, scarcity of foodgrains, and government taxes. These are written in Bhāgavata. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa... Government will exact tax more.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a scientific study done by the CIA in America, this study done by the CIA on world weather conditions. And they concluded that the world weather conditions only get worse and worse. There's going to be drought every three, four years, and so there will not be food production.
Prabhupāda: It is predicted in the Bhāgavata five thousand years ago.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're having earthquakes in China now.
Hari-śauri: Yes, big ones. They say a million people died in the last one.
Prabhupāda: You have got the keys for that?
Hari-śauri: I think they're... That last set that I gave you, Śrīla Prabhupāda? These, yes.
Prabhupāda: Print books many, as good as possible. Let us do our duty.
Indian Doctor: Even there is worship (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these are āsaktis. This husband and wife dying together, it is admitted(?) because āsakti is there. That āsakti will help him, that the wife will become a husband next life, and the husband will become wife next. And in that way they'll have to take birth again.
Indian Doctor: Soul has got no tax.(?)
Prabhupāda: Karma-bandha.
Indian Doctor: Karma-bandha and jīva.
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: What is the rent?
Yaśomatīnandana: Land also...
Prabhupāda: No, no, rent.
Yaśomatīnandana: Rent is thousand rupees. One thousand rupees, plus tax for government.
Prabhupāda: Plus twelve hundred?
Yaśomatīnandana: No, plus two hundred tax. They are life members from Ahmedabad. They came to see Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. So give them place to stay. (end)
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Acyutānanda: That's an income tax form. I pasted these on the back.
Prabhupāda: That C.P.I. member, what does he say?
Acyutānanda: Well apparently they're a little bit envious because Māyāpur is becoming very popular amongst the local people. We get five thousand people now for the prasādam. And even the Congress leaders, they come here and eat with the people. They said, "This is wonderful."
Prabhupāda: Where is that?
Acyutānanda: At Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, what is the investigation?
Jayapatākā: They are being investigated for income tax.
Gargamuni: For income tax. The government is making it so that no one can give any donation. They don't want any more donation. They want everything to come to the government. So it's not easy to get money locally. We are getting enough to do maintenance, but it is not like it was, say, two or three years ago, when you could get 25,000 fifteen thousand, especially in Calcutta, where the income tax, every day they are raiding the houses.
Jayapatākā: Even if people give, a life, patron member, 2,222, if they are not so big, they want to give in installment and even though they'll give at one time with postdated... They want different receipt because if they give one lump sum, then it makes it seem that they are very rich. Although they'll give you at one time, they want small, small receipt so that the income tax won't think, "Oh, they are are giving so much donation? They must be very rich. They must have hidden wealth which we can capture from them by investigation." So in this way they are very much pressurized. Sometimes they prefer to give money without receipt.
Prabhupāda: Soon the whole, our program is going on.
Gargamuni: We tell them that "If you give your Kṛṣṇa tax, this will save you from the income tax.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Because they are raiding...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: "...because you are hoarding. But if you give..."
Prabhupāda: The industrialists... That is also one of our programs. Let them hold festivals every Sunday, as we hold. And we shall go and have kīrtana and sumptuous feeding give. They'll be very satisfied. And instead of giving the income tax, let them spend in this way. Convince them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Maṇihāra: Now England is finished. Everybody is completely unhappy. Nobody is happy in England. The rich men, once they were happy, now they are having their money taken away by the government. They are taxing, taxing, taxing, all the time. And the poor people, they have nothing anyway. Nobody has anything to talk about. Nothing to be proud of in England. Everybody is leaving. Every day in the newspaper you read such-and-such has happened.
Prabhupāda: You are Englishman?
Maṇihāra: Yes.
Prabhā Viṣṇu: It's a sinful reaction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They expanded their empire. Where is that empire now? The expansion of empire began during Victoria's time. Victoria's time.
Krishna Modi: Indian economy is better. Income tax also they have got 67% more. Because they have reduced the rate.
Prabhupāda: What is the percentage?
Krishna Modi: Before that the percentage is 97 but last year, is 1976, in the March they have reduced the income tax from 97 to 65. 67.
Prabhupāda: In America it is 25.
Krishna Modi: No, not 25, that is 45... But there is a system in West Germany that if you earn more, the tax will be less. That is their system. If people will earn 200 crores, then the tax percentage will be lower. Lower.
Prabhupāda: That is good. That is good. The psychology is that if you earn more and government will tax more, then the impetus for earning more is cut.
Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.
Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced, I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.
Prabhupāda: Ha. Happiness means spiritual happiness. That they do not know. Therefore I began my words that so long one is after material happiness he remains as an animal. Because the animal cannot derive spiritual happiness. They do not know. The man can know. Just like this boy, he's coming from very high family in America but he's now happy in this way, by taking sannyāsa, giving up everything, living very plain. He has got money he had got beautiful wife, he had got beautiful home, everything. But he has given up. Not his example. In our country there were many many big, big kings, rājarṣis. Just like Bharata Mahārāja. He was emperor of the whole world. He gave up everything at the age of 24 years, young wife, young children. There are many examples. So actually, we have lost our Vedic culture, the objective, and therefore we are suffering. Simply by holding meetings and... Of course, these things will go on. Government has no other remedy by tax. Whether people are happy or they are happy, it doesn't matter. They have got the power, tax.
Prabhupāda: Remedy is they should admit that there is God. But they do not admit, especially the so-called scientist rascals and atheist philosophers, politicians. They do not accept the authority of God. They think they will be able to manage things in their own way. And they say clearly, "There is no God." But there is nature. You can say, "I don't care for the government but the government force is there; police is there; military is there. Similarly, you may say, "Defy the control of government," but the agent of God is there, the material nature. That will punish you. There will be no rain, there will be no food production, and the rascal governments will take advantage of it, "food relief." They'll tax, as if by taxing they will be able to combat with nature. So three things we'll have to meet: no rain, no food, and government taxes. Then how people will remain in sane condition? They will become mad.
Prabhupāda: There will be proper rainfall. And if there is proper rainfall, then you get sufficient food grains, not only food grains, other things also. Sarva-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the earth you can get all the necessities of life. Actually you are getting food grains, minerals, trees, fruits, flowers, everything from the earth. Sarva-dughā, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. This mahī, when it is soaked with proper rains, it becomes fertile. Therefore we have to depend on the rainfall. There is one verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya means rainfall. Rainfall means it is supplying all the necessities of life. And this rainfall will be easy when there is yajña. And nobody is performing yajña; therefore nowadays rainfall is scarcity. In Europe recently I have seen, there is no rainfall, whole Europe. It is on the verge of drying everything. So this punishment will come in this Kali-yuga. There will be no rainfall, and there will be not sufficient food supply, and the government will simply levy taxes on different pleas and people will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their hearth and home and flee away to the forest.
Prabhupāda: So in order to release ourself from the sinful reaction of sinful activity, we must perform yajña. And in this age the easiest process of yajña is saṅkīrtana-yajña. (long pause) So what are the problem?
Jagadīśa: Under "problems" are... There are some general problems such as taxes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jagadīśa: Taxes. Taxation.
Prabhupāda: Hm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this, there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment because the government is your government. Because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? Ne māmā che kānā māmā (?) "If there is no uncle, one blind uncle is all right." So the matter is now clear. You do it and develop it.
Jagadīśa: There is one confusion in my mind, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Mahāṁśa said that the local villagers will not be inclined to come here and live because they are living just outside. But my impression was, from hearing you speak was, that everyone, whether they're living just outside or a long distance outside, they are suffering from material existence. They're having to struggle for existence. They're being taxed by the government. There's so many problems to maintain themself. And every living being in the material world is struggling to maintain himself. But if we offer them a house here and some work and we give them all food, clothing, and...
Prabhupāda: That is our aim.
Jagadīśa: That's our aim.
Prabhupāda: That is our aim. So you can engage some men to cut the hill for blocks and gradually develop house.
Prabhupāda: Spend for this purpose, propagation. That is my mi... And if I would have taken some royalty, then my daily income would have been not less than 75,000 per day.
Guest (9): After income tax, little would be left.
Prabhupāda: There is no income tax. We are charity.
Guest (9): 75,000 daily, you said.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because five to six lakhs daily collection. If I take minimum fifteen percent, what it comes to? Big, big authors, they get twenty-five percent.
Guest (9): But one gentleman... I think in this temple... Some of your books are, rather, prohibiting the cost.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this was meant for the outside. Because our countrymen, they are learned, they don't require. They are so learned, they don't require anybody. Therefore it is prohibited. Better they do not take it. Otherwise they will misinterpret. That's all. Their only business is misinterpret. Therefore the prohibited price.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He's of my age. Not less. But he's after three, four wives. His business is to go from one wife's house to another wife's house and each wife's house, expenditure of ten thousand rupees per month. (chuckles) He's a very funny businessman. He has made his wife director and they take money. So to avoid income tax... So, huge expenditure. Each, one house. Income tax cannot say, "Why you are maintaining?" (indistinct) That is not their business. It is comparison. Just like Bhogilal, he's maintaining big, big establishment. So I became his guest for fifteen days. He wanted to stay. I stayed for fifteen days. I first, my requisition was that he you must give me exclusive typewriter for writing my books. So he gave me. And if I would have asked for typewriter he would have given. But I was working with my broken typewriter. I went to our Tīrtha Mahārāja in Māyāpur, that "You give me a room (Śrīla Prabhupāda taps on table) and a typewriter, (tap) and print my books. (tap) Give me some (indistinct) (tap). I join you."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are sticking to it. The only harm to us is our Gurukula is going to get delayed now, the opening.
Prabhupāda: But in the meantime you...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And also we are running out of time because we can't let water accumulate the way it is.
Prabhupāda: So why you can't? We have purchased that land. They have to...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that is... We'll try for that now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means... We have purchased that land. By force you can drive out? We are trying for that. Go to the court: "We have regularly purchased that land. What can be done? The municipality is not doing anything." We have to fight like that.
Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that he's trouble. Why he should be giving us trouble? We purchased it. Take land; take money. And we have to purchase the land for this purpose. We are doing other arrangement; that is our mercy. But even that land... The municipality is obliged. Otherwise we can throw the water on the street. That is municipal's duty. Otherwise why shall I pay tax? We shall do everything, we shall pay tax, and we shall suffer? What is this?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not paying tax. We are fighting it in the court.
Prabhupāda: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to guṇḍā-ism, we shall engage fifty guṇḍās. "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry: "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong." One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kṣatriya spirit. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam. "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this bāniyā spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? Bāniyā spirit. But you are kṣatriya.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At the present moment he's okay; he's quiet.
Prabhupāda: No, we should beat them. If somebody, atatayi...(?) You unnecessarily attack me; I must first kill you. That is my duty. Just like you have done here, Setterji. "I'll bring my revolver." So that is argumentum baculum. Here they wanted to put us into trouble, and he was in great trouble. So he came, he stood: "All right, come on. We shall fight. Bring my revolver." He did that. So we have to do like that. Why shall I tolerate unnecessary injustice. Take that spirit. And in meantime apply. That is the solution. Why shall I spend for them? And unless they arrange for the sewer lines, we're not going to pay tax.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's our position.
Prabhupāda: Let us go on, one court after another, one court after... If there is fight, we must be prepared to fight. (Hindi) If required, take Setterji. He'll help.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. If the men are kept as animals, you cannot expect them peaceful citizens. That is not possible. The fighting will go on on one plea or another. You cannot stop. (pause) Was it...? You give...? Pālikā?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahārāja got the income tax today. The income tax also... And our auditor... Their interpretation of the law is so rigid, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have to say so many lies. For example...
Prabhupāda: That you may not bother about, for...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: So you can make idli? What is called? Is it called?
Pālikā: Tonight?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (japa) Sell books and this principle follow: half construct temple, half print books. That's it. No income tax. "We have spent everything. That's all." (japa) In Vṛndāvana, he was suggesting, that Set, Setterji, that "You make some will. Otherwise, after your... In your absence the government will..." And I'll not keep a single farthing. I shall spend all before I die. (chuckles) Invest in book, that's all. I am insisting on this. But I am simply afraid if we have got enough stock, it may not be stolen and misused. Otherwise I want to immediately invest in books all the money that I have got.
Prabhupāda: I don't think. That is stated, what you are saying, that in Kali-yuga people will be so fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). They are mandāḥ, bad, or very slow. Mandāḥ. And they have got their own manufactured ideas, sumanda-matayo. Not only mandāḥ, but they have got their own manufactured idea. And manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ. The first thing, three things, upadrava, disturbances... One disturbance is there will be no rainfall, and therefore there will be scarcity of food, and government will tax like anything. People will be so harassed that they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. this is awaiting in the Kali-yuga. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll be saved.
Prabhupāda: The point is that some income tax affair.
Mr. Asnani: No problem. Is it at (indistinct). Have you seen notice?
Girirāja: Which is? About the constitution, exemption? Ah, no. No, it's not a notice as such, but they're questioning whether we deserve the tax exemption as a charitable trust. They're saying that we are not charitable; we are religious. And religious is not exempt from income tax. So the question is whether we have to change our constitution to fit their idea or whether to establish a separate trust or whether to defend that our present...
Prabhupāda: First thing is that we have not received any official notice.
Prabhupāda: It is a superstition that one should not lie down keeping the head on the northern side. So one says that "I have no head at all. So why shall I bother about keeping my head this way or that way?" Similarly, keep no head, so there will be no question of keeping northern side or southern side. That I want. We have no such program. You spend all money. I want that whatever collection is there, you spend. There is no account, and there will be no question of income tax. We are beggars. Whatever money you get, you spend. That's all.
Mr. Asnani: So your books will also show you, ultimately at end of year, expenditure, income, equalized, neutralized.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting: whatever money we have got in the bank, spend it for printing. Keep the books. That's all. I am insisting this point everywhere. You kept that money seven thousand, seven lakhs or what?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise I'll not give to Govinda. Income tax officer will take: "Govindāya namaḥ." If you distribute prasādam of Govinda among the poor men... We have got already in Māyāpur. Increase that. There is... They are drum-beating, that "Anyone who is hungry, please come and take prasāda."
Girirāja: That they accept as charitable. They want charitable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: So what could be more charitable than feeding?
Prabhupāda: No, you keep always kitchen, and by drum beating, that, "Anyone hungry within this area, or anywhere, come here. Take capatis, roti," and distribute prasādam. That is in our program.
Girirāja: Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he suspected that they were going to steal, he told, "Get rid of it."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. He immediately offered, "I have got this seven dollars. You take it." He was astrologer. He said, "No, you have got eight dollars. But I'll not take your money." "No, no, you take, sir. You'll not take—somebody will take. I'll give you. Kindly help me." And he chastised his servant, "Why you have taken these dangerous things? So you have got still one dollar. You go back. You don't come with me. And eight dollars I have given him. I'll be free." He thought that "Master is by sentiment leaving home and he is so opulent. Let me go with him and keep some money in case of emergency." Of course, that is... From his part it was right, but he thought that "Without this money, to remain, is more safe than to feel safety by keeping money." Because if the government is plunderer, then there is no other. This time is coming. The government will plunder in the name of taxation, and there will be no rainfall, scarcity of food. So everyone will feel very difficult to maintain the family. They'll leave voluntarily and go away. This is foretold.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...
Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus there's lot of income tax. The income tax is so bad, the government laws, that ISKCON cannot even sell books. Even if we sell books we are considered to be a profit-making organization. We can give books away for a donation but not sell it. They are such... Tomorrow our auditor is coming on site. He's coming with two, one income tax lawyer, who is our new lawyer now. Very nice man.
Prabhupāda: So you want to keep there? (end)
Hari-śauri: Even in the West they shave their heads. And they look something like that.
Prabhupāda: Well, there was some income tax office pleader. So I have given the idea that "The fifty percent, that is promotion expenditure." So he accept..., "Yes, it can be done." Where is the profit? Whatever is profit is promotion expenditure. We give to ISKCON commission, or some way or other, it is spent. So he admitted, "Yes, it can be done." And last night I was suggesting, "For promotion spend." Even if we open a temple, that is promotion.
Jagadīśa: Profit means that people are putting money in their pocket and enjoying. And we don't.
Prabhupāda: But we're not. No. If we open a center, that is propaganda center. Why do you say "temple"? But this is the way of propaganda.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. So all expenditure—promotion, that's all. The cost of paper, cost of printing, cost of promotion—finished everything. Make account like that. The income tax father will not touch it.
Hari-śauri: Everything we're doing is propaganda work, everything.
Prabhupāda: That's all. If still there is excess, give some bonus to the gṛhasthas bhaktas. They're family men. Let them have some expenditure.
Jagadīśa: Some wage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Finished all... No account. So they admitted, both of them, "Yes, sir, that is... That can be done."
Prabhupāda: Every page, the center is Kṛṣṇa. Not only the Kṛṣṇa book. All our books-Caitanya-caritāmṛta—the center is Kṛṣṇa. Bhāgavata, the center is Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad-gītā center is Kṛṣṇa. Nectar of Devotion, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Similarly, our, this book, the center is Kṛṣṇa. When we open a temple, the center is Kṛṣṇa. In this way manage, promotion. All spend for promotion. Then the income tax will not be able to touch your hair, what to speak of your body. (laughter) So now our counterpropaganda is going on. The center is Kṛṣṇa. Big, big Kṛṣṇa's name are coming: "These Kṛṣṇa people," "These Kṛṣṇa devotees," "This Kṛṣṇa center"—that is our triumph. What is that?
Trivikrama: There is a letter.
Prabhupāda: Letter from?
Rāmeśvara: I was mentioning it this morning. We intercept their newsletters.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that will also do benefit.
Trivikrama: Their center is Kṛṣṇa also, only they're demons.
Rāmeśvara: These are receipts, Śrīla Prabhupāda, each one for two thousand dollars deposited in your account in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: That is rent tax.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. We already entered that. Both times from Balavanta in...
Prabhupāda: You enter. Enter this.
Hari-śauri: Two from Balavanta, two from Rūpānuga.
Prabhupāda: Debit.
Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.
Rāmeśvara: But one recent development which will change that is that they have appealed to the government that they are an educational group. Therefore they should be tax exempt like any other educational organization, and the government has agreed. Now they have gotten their tax exemption, so now these parents can donate lots of... Different people will start donating lots of money to them as tax write-offs. So I think that we will see that their activities will be expanded this year, because now they are tax exempt, they'll get a lot of money.
Hari-śauri: That news article said that someone had given them $105,000. Some parents of a cult...
Prabhupāda: No, there are rich parents. They can do that. And every parent is unhappy. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) As soon as there will be money, there will be headache and income tax, this tax, that tax. So keep always empty. Bas. Vigorously push, and whatever available, spend. Bas. Finished. How do you like?
Rāmeśvara: That is always our policy.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And if we have to take contribution, take ISKCON. They're free. But for Bhaktivedanta Trust there is no need of contribution. Then there will be exemption certificate required and so on. We don't want any contribution. If anyone wants to contribute, let him contribute to the ISKCON. They're tax free. And here there is no tax, no tax free. That's all. Print book and sell and spend. Follow this policy there and here also, and push these books. That is our main preaching. Somehow or other, it must go, from door to door, hand to hand. Then our preaching is successful. Anyone who will read, he'll get some benefit. That is sure, because such literatures are not available throughout the whole world. It is a new revolution to the people in general. Am I right or not?
Prabhupāda: Heavy tax.
Haṁsadūta: We don't pay them anything. They come to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are getting advertise, publicity, paying nothing. This is our profit.
Rāmeśvara: We still have to work very hard to defeat them.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is necessary. You don't sleep. Never Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am your friend. I am God. You sleep here. (laughter) I'll do everything." No! "You must fight." That is wanted. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara: (BG 8.7) "You fight and remember Me. Then I'll do everything." This is an opportunity of remembering Kṛṣṇa always—"Kṛṣṇa, save us." (break) So what are these pictures? Against us?
Rāmeśvara: Yes. This shows that if they kidnap you and they convince you to give up your belief in God, you will be very happy. You will have nice girlfriend. You will be very happy.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing.
Prabhupāda: Day after. So our movement is genuine. Now it is up to you to help this movement. And there is no concoction. From... Sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ (BG 4.3). As Kṛṣṇa said five thousand years ago, yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ, so we are also presenting that purātanaḥ. This philosophy is not new. Purātanaḥ. So we have nothing to tax our brain to manufacture something new. So people give me credit: "Swamiji, you have done wonderful, wonderful." I do not know magic. But I am presenting purātanaḥ, that's all, no adulteration. If there is any credit, the credit is this-yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Explanation also not very much required because the explanation is already there, and we are not so intelligent that we can explain. But we take it, the words of the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If we see that one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he comes to this group: duṣkṛtina, narādhamāḥ and mūḍha. That's all. This is our conclusion. We are fools and rascal. We take the words of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa on account of duṣkṛtina. Kṛti means he's doing something meritorious—but for bad purpose, duṣkṛtina. He is taxing his brain to do something, but against the will of Bhagavad-gītā. That is called duṣkṛtina. The purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God. But if you are deviating them to become atheists, narādhamāḥ, then what is Bhagavad-gītā preaching? You preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So they take the Bhagavad-gītā for serving their purpose. Somebody was telling me that Dr. Radhakrishnan said that "If you take Bhagavad-gītā as..., Kṛṣṇa as God...," something like that, that they deny that Kṛṣṇa is God. This is Bhagavad-gītā preaching. God is speaking Himself-bhagavān uvāca. Vyāsadeva (Hindi). Vyāsadeva... Who can be better scholar than Vyāsadeva? Vidvān. He is recognized vidvān. Veda-Vyāsa. All ācāryas accept. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā. So Vyāsadeva.... (Hindi) bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Cent percent, they are speaking something which is not the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) You can speak whatever you like. You have got that liberty.
Prabhupāda: Not only that, if he makes bill for the paper, then he has to pay sales tax.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Also the income tax will say, "Your sales were so high," so he doesn't want the paper account to come under that. So what I'm saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda... The demand for our books is there. And like BBT Los Angeles sells a Bhāgavatam to the temples for $3.50, and we are selling it for $1.45. And that includes our profit already. Our real cost is 90 cents, 95 cents. So we can expand our printing capacity here. As I discussed with you last week, there's one machine from England that Usa Printers wants to import. And if we give him a loan... It will be his machine. He'll give us documents, and he'll pay back interest every month. In two years he'll pay back the whole money plus interest, which will be higher than what the bank gives us.
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Rāmeśvara: What is the bank rate?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The bank rate's about 12%. We'll do higher than the bank rate.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Bank rate is not less than 16%.
Prabhupāda: So do that. There is no need of accumulating money and pay income tax and botheration. Spend it. Always remain empty pocket.
Rāmeśvara: So I was thinking to develop this record group so we can make lots of money.
Prabhupāda: You make lots of money and spend lots of money. Don't keep it in the pocket. What is the use of keeping? No income.
Rāmeśvara: So our only interest is to spend it as fast as we get it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spend it for distribution. They'll say, "Kṛṣṇa, give us prasāda!" And that is our triumph. They chant and "Kṛṣṇa." That's all right. "Take prasāda."
Rāmeśvara: Many answers. You have all the answers.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I am speaking you how to answer. (long pause) So much land lying vacant. Yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. There is no yajña. Therefore there is no rain. (break) ...and it will increase. Because the people will increase their godlessness, so the rainfall will stop. Now lick up your motorcar. This is going on. Anavṛṣṭya durbhikṣa dāra-pīḍitaḥ. One side, anavṛṣṭi, there is no food grain, and government taxation. People will be so harassed, they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. Cannot manage. (break) ...God awakening your country to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Someway or other, there is agitation. This agitation must go on and then turn it towards favorable time. Agitation is there. That is good. (japa) (break)
Rāmeśvara: They say that in the Vedas, Viṣṇu comes first and Kṛṣṇa is expansion of Viṣṇu, and we have concocted that Kṛṣṇa is the adi-puruṣa.
Prabhupāda: But he accepted that?
Rāmeśvara: No, we defeated that argument.
Prabhupāda: No, no... (break) The man who says that, so ask him that "You accept this, that Viṣṇu, there is, Supreme, and Viṣṇu's incarnation is Kṛṣṇa?"
Rāmeśvara: He accepted it.
Prabhupāda: And send... Send grains. Send grains, food grains, and we shall utilize it in all our temples and farm projects in the beginning. Then they'll... Naturally they'll produce. As soon as they become little interested in our scheme, they'll give service.
Rāmeśvara: And this will also be a good angle for getting the record tax exempt. The books are already tax exempt, but not the record. So if the money from the record is going to be used for feeding people...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...automatically they'll give us tax exemption.
Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure.
Prabhupāda: And we are not taking any profit. Neither the seller, neither the author is taking any profit. So there is enough money. You haven't got to pay either to the seller or to the writer, then why not spend the whole income? No profit. So we save income tax. And whatever little excess is there, (indistinct), advertise or pay some gṛhasthas some pocket expenses. In this way make it meet. No profit. By our arrangement there is no question of profit but even there is profit, we should pay the gṛhasthas some expenditure. He has... Family man there is... In this way, make always no profit. I was doing from the very beginning (indistinct), then I began to sell books. I was working, I was selling, I was collecting, I was spending, going to the printer, everything. Forcing (indistinct) I was publishing. Work nicely. If I don't force (indistinct), they'll not give me the concession rate, still I am doing. So I think this book department (indistinct) all right, you don't require to invest. But whatever income you'll get from this record business, spend it for giving prasādam. So we have got so many centers, they will feed.
Rāmeśvara: That was that whole article I brought from page one of L.A. Times, that how they have made this legal. And now they have got tax exemption. So now it's going to increase. For the next year it's going to increase, because they're going to get a lot of money from the families as tax write-offs.
Prabhupāda: Tax invention? What is that?
Rāmeśvara: They call themselves educational organizations. They are educating the public because they do speaking engagements at colleges and different places. So on the basis of that, they applied to the federal government, "Please, we are just an educational group. You must give us tax exemption." So they have been given that. Now people can donate money to them. Instead of paying taxes to the U.S. government, they can donate money to them in exchange for paying taxes. (laughs) So the fighting will get more...
Prabhupāda: Intense.
Prabhupāda: Durbhikṣa. Anāvṛstya durbhikṣā kara-pīḍitaḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rainfall, scarcity of food, and government will tax. Government will contribute twenty-five crores, and they will tax three hundred crores on this beach.(?) And before giving twenty-five crores, the other three hundred crores they will divide amongst themselves. (chuckles) That's all. (break)
(in a car driving through traffic)
Rāmeśvara: ...two demons, she was feeling thirst. So Lord Śiva with the end of his trident created this hole. And then he sent his bull carrier to gather waters from all the sacred rivers in the universe. An then Lord Brahmā came...
Prabhupāda: Bindu-sarovara. Drop by drop. Bindu means drop. So the sarovara came into existence by contribution from all rivers. (break) Bhuvaneśvara will help me. I have got little hint.
Hari-śauri: Just that chanting is enough. It's just so much nectar.
Prabhupāda: No, everything—Deity worship, chanting, kīrtana, preaching, publishing, distributing—everything.
Rāmeśvara: This requires superintelligence. Just like, say, in Los Angeles there are two hundred devotees. It is taxing our brains how to give proper engagement to every one of them.
Prabhupāda: Well, this engagement is: "Go and sell books." That engagement is already there.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, but some are not qualified, some householders...
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of quality, of... It doesn't matter whether he sells one book or hundred books. It doesn't matter. Let him be engaged, that's all.
Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm saying. To find the proper engagement, the best utilization of every man's...
Prabhupāda: This is very good engagement, very good engagement. Go door to door. I don't mind if you no sell. But you have gone. That's all. I don't mind. It is not business, that "Because you could not sell anything, your salary will be dismissed." No. There is no such question.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?
Gargamuni: If they are sincere, they will be successful.
Rāmeśvara: So it is little taxing...
Prabhupāda: Not taxing. I was doing alone this. I was printing Back to Godhead and going to the press. I was writing. I was posting.
Gargamuni: In one room you had many corners for your different projects. (chuckles)
Rāmeśvara: But if you have hundreds and hundreds of devotees in one center, then you have to be concerned with their spiritual life, how they are engaged, how they're supported.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual life...
Rāmeśvara: So the more people that come, the more intelligence is required to manage.
Prabhupāda: We can accommodate more people also. There is no difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: So we are waiting for these men. If they have so many extra men for taxing, then send them here.
Rāmeśvara: No, that's not the point at all. That's not at all the point.
Hari-śauri: What was that verse again, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that verse you wanted?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What subject matter? Niyatam.
- niyataṁ kuru karma tvam
- karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ
- śarīra-yātrāpi ca te
- na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ
Rāmeśvara: I'm thinking that by selling all these books, gradually hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people will want us to give them some advice. They'll want to elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders. They'll want us to guide the society. So it will require great intelligence...
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to know where he is. Then we can give. What is his position? Then we can give him. Just like diagnosis. You have to see what is the disease. Then we give medicine.
Gargamuni: In India they say the CIA is funding you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They may say anything, but actually what we are?
Rāmeśvara: In America they are supporting the unemployed through federal and state welfare, which is paid for by tax money. So the more the unemployment increases, the more the taxes...
Prabhupāda: Taxes increase.
Rāmeśvara: ...have to increase. Otherwise these people will starve.
Gargamuni: And thousands of people live off the welfare checks.
Rāmeśvara: There is big scandals in America about cheating on the welfare roles to get free money from the government.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Rāmeśvara: And had a new government formed, because they had created a huge debt, federal debt. They were spending much more money than they had, and they were simply increasing the taxes more and more, and the people just kicked them out.
Prabhupāda: It is closed?
Hari-śauri: Yes. The year before they got kicked out, I was distributing magazines at one political rally. The Prime Minister came to Perth. And when he came there all the farmers came, and they were so angry, they were throwing rotten eggs at him and tin cans and all kinds of things.
Prabhupāda: The farmers.
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Rāmeśvara: They devalued the Australian dollar very much. The Australian dollar used to be worth maybe...
Prabhupāda: More than American dollar.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: But during that delay they are forced to lose their job, so they have no income. Then people from outside Russia who are sympathizers start to send money, and the government takes sixty-five percent of it in taxes before the people can get it. So they torture them if they want to leave.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Terrorism. Very dangerous. Now it is published in the paper how they exploit the people. And our India also thinking in terms of Russian philosophy. Lenin's philosophy.
Hari-śauri: They're not so successful here, though. The people are too pious to accept Communist philosophy so much here.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. It will be difficult here.
Prabhupāda: All right, bring it
Guest (1): (Bengali or Oriya:) Sorry if Prabhupāda was taxed by that man. He did not understand...
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (1): ...and started arguing. He's not in a mood to understand.
Prabhupāda: Where is dvaitavāda, advaitavāda, in Bhagavad-gītā? Mamaivāṁśo (BG 15.7). Aṁśaṁśi-dvaita. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Pitā-putra, dvaitavāda. Bahūni, janma, janmāni tava cārjuna. Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa-dvaitavāda.
Guest (1): Virudāvalī should also be translated.
Prabhupāda: Virudāvalī, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana's?
Guest (1): No, Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Rūpa Gosvāmī, yes.
Prabhupāda: Every three girls?
Satsvarūpa: Should have one teacher, not just one teacher for all of them.
Prabhupāda: At least ten students one teacher.
Satsvarūpa: That's to live with them and everything? They think that's a little taxing, that the girl won't get such personal supervision.
Prabhupāda: What is that personal? We had a tutorial class system.
Satsvarūpa: So it's not necessary to have it so small, classes. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, they talked with him, and he likes the idea. He said he can give them rooms in Bombay where they could do this. They think that it's not good that the girls be in the same building as the boys, such as in Vṛndāvana, because then...
Prabhupāda: No, they are on the upstairs.
Prabhupāda: Dirty. Actually they are earning for them. Taxation. They have got law, and they are advertising...
Satsvarūpa: "Don't cheat on your tax."
Prabhupāda: "Don't cheat..."
Satsvarūpa: "Or you'll be persecuted."
Prabhupāda: Who is cheating? They're cheating. Just see. They are working hard; they are cheating. And they, by taxation getting money and living very comfortable, they are not cheating.
Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?
Hari-śauri: Proletariat.
Prabhupāda: What is that proletariat?
Satsvarūpa: The laborers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. So they have taken it very seriously, to stop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Because their own young children, the future of the country, are joining these cults.
Brahmānanda: Two states have now passed laws making this deprogramming legal, and also they have given tax exemption. That means the government is giving...
Prabhupāda: Support.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Support.
Brahmānanda: And they're even talking that maybe the government will give financial grant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are afraid that these Kṛṣṇa conscious men may capture the government.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some of them are saying like that, "This organization, the Kṛṣṇa con..., is a very powerful organization, and their ambition is to take over the world."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) And that's a fact. (laughter) Well, let us see. (laughter) It is a fight between Kṛṣṇa and demon. Let us do our duty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be all right. There are so many demons. Prahlāda Mahārāja was five-years-old boy, and his father, such a big demon... The fight was at home. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja gained victory. Similarly, you are all Prahlāda Mahārāja, (laughs) and your fathers are great demons. The fight is there. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. You'll come out victorious. Nṛsiṁha-deva will come. So the poison of (laughing) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is acting now. That is good. If we come out victorious, then it will be a great victory.
Prabhupāda: Give me.
Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes we shall speak on this.
Girirāja: Now, for tonight's program, I was thinking that actually there is no need for you to come to the pandal, because it's very strenuous and Dr. Jawar knows us very well. He won't take offense. And he could, if you wanted, he could come for your darśana anyway, which would be less taxing.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Bhavānanda: This Dr. Oja says that your blood pressure is about 210 to 220 over 100. He said it should be about 150 over 90. He said any strain moving around will cause this.(?)
Prabhupāda: But if required, I can go. If it is required, I can go.
Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā. This is the sample of the... But it will be done all round the world. This is a sample of that.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Guest (1): He had done translation of Suśruta-saṁhitā from Sanskrit to English in six volumes, and he has established one Ayurvedic college and other things in Jahmnedabad about thirty years ago. He is a very personal friend of our life member Sanat Bhatai or (indistinct), who are expert in income tax. They are handling our income tax matters. He's a senior partner, about eighty-four years old. So I talked to him today, and he has thought whether you would like to take his advantage of the knowledge of the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, I can take advantage, but no medicine.
Guest (1): No, we can have discussion with him. We can have only consultation, and he is doing out of friendly relation. He does not want money out of you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.
Guest (1): He is of your own age. So if you tell me then I can bring him tomorrow, because I am going out on seventh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking. Caitanya said, "When the meaning is clear, why you are giving us this, nonsense?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sarvabhauma asked Him, "You have sat here hearing vedānta for seven, eight days, but You have not said anything. Are You not understanding?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I understand the vedānta, but I cannot understand your interpretation."
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you give me the key to the almirah, then I can fix the tacks (tax?).
Prabhupāda: Take.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll keep these here for now. First I'll do those.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) (takes prasādam) (end)
Prabhupāda: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings, and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all, finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And the king will protect us."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We don't care which one." That was a nice system.
Prabhupāda: Very nice system.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unnecessarily people were not being killed.
Prabhupāda: And one fourth, what you have produced, give one fourth to the king. "You come here. See, what I have produced. You take one fourth."
Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays they drop one atom bomb, a whole half the country, half the people destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear her, and she is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think that she will again become the prime...
Prabhupāda: Any moment she can become. It is a question of maneuvering.
Prabhupāda: That, everyone says.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And this, these space flight cheatings, this is for the purpose of giving a few men more tax money or fame. That's another reason for cheating, to get fame.
Prabhupāda: I have got tendency to cheat, so people unnecessarily poses himself as very big man even by ideas that you will consider him very great man, although I am nothing. So many gurus, they are doing that. Our business that we want to speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. If Kṛṣṇa has cheated, then we are cheater. Otherwise honest. If Kṛṣṇa is honest, we are honest. If Kṛṣṇa is cheater, so our position is safe. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Other gurus, they are manufacturing how to cheat. That is the difference. We are not speaking anything new. So if Kṛṣṇa has originally cheated you, then I am cheater.
Prabhupāda: Now I am getting old, old age, not good health, so try to give me relief. Otherwise it is too much. Brain has to be taxed. But if my foreign(?) business is there, if you tax my brain in this way, that will be suffer. So try to give me relief from this managerial... (pause) Still I can hint like this. But where is the work going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you have to just point it out to me like that.
Prabhupāda: There is no work. So dangerous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I told some people to meet me, so maybe I should... Regarding this. They may be waiting for me outside.
Prabhupāda: Go. (end)
Prabhupāda: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All over the world... Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to śāstra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer. Because they are becoming godless, they must suffer. That is nature's punishment.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
They won't take the real culture given by God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, "Do like this." Therefore they are godless. They must suffer. Now the suffering is awaiting to the general mass of people. Durbhikṣa... Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rain from the sky, and therefore there will be no sufficient grains. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa. And in the name of improving the situation, government will tax. Kara-pīḍitāḥ. In this way, so the people in general, they'll be so much harassed that, without being able to manage things... Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. "Let whatever I may have to the family eating. Let me go." This is the position.
Prabhupāda: In that style you make.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So we'll make up a draft of that style and then, after the draft is approved, you can tell us which trustees you want.
Prabhupāda: That you select amongst yourselves. Why you are taxing me?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. I didn't know if you wanted us to do that.
Prabhupāda: You do not know? I have repeatedly said. You do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for Bombay and Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana, I mean.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hyderabad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these three places are most important.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. (pause) Among yourselves, there is no strong man. That is the defect. All like child. That is the defect. And it requires a very strong man. That is lacking. In every minute details I have poked my nose. Anyone, whatever you have got, sit down and select trustees, and the format is there. Make a trustee. So...? (break) ...should be so many copies. Every one of you GBC and important men must have that copies.
Prabhupāda: You can... Then there will be question, "The trust deed will be given? Then there will tax."
Girirāja: No, because the ISKCON trust is already there, and ISKCON is already tax exempt. The only difficulty is if you create a new trust.
Prabhupāda: No, no new trust.
Girirāja: No.
Prabhupāda: Instead of trustees...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Use a different word.
Prabhupāda: Ah!
Rāmeśvara: There's one other item that has been recommended by several persons, Prabhupāda, and that is the will is only a legal document after the maker of the will has departed, so in the interim period, they have suggested an affidavit for any properties or, say, fixed deposits that are in your personal name, and this affidavit would simply state that the purpose of these fixed deposits and properties is for ISKCON. In that way the government will never be able to exact any taxes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Registered.
Rāmeśvara: Registered. That that is the intention. Mr. Sharma said this will be sufficient to avoid any income tax or other tax on such holdings.
Prabhupāda: That I want. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Because sometimes they've said, "Oh, it's in your Guru Mahārāja's personal name," and you always said, "It's not my personal money." This will show that.
Prabhupāda: Benāmadāra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. 'Cause actually, whenever you told us to buy properties, we always wrote your name and then "Founder-Ācārya of the International Society for..."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So do it. Manage nicely.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did what the Curzons suggested.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So meet him again and take particularly everything. So you can go.
Surabhī: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Now I have to go. My train is leaving in about twenty minutes.
Prabhupāda: So you can go.
Surabhī: So I have to go to Mathurā. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: You arrange. In this stage, don't tax me very much. Now I have authorized that will and everything. Follow that. You believe.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll discuss it with Tamāla.
Prabhupāda: As far as..., don't tax me. And printing, don't mind for price. Do it quickly and nicely.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That is... As quickly as possible. No manuscript should be left vacant. That I want. Here and there I have more money invested. Now you don't...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. We're not leaving anything.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As we have taken...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Others have also taken? Yes. But we can find out what they're doing. Should Jayapatākā do these things? I think he is the proper person, not Śatadhanya. Jayapatākā is more experienced with these kind of things, legal works. In any case, we're dealing with it. Then there's also the issue of who is responsible for paying the various corporation taxes and things like that.
Prabhupāda: The occupier.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The occupier. Not the owner, not Patodiya. We are responsible.
Prabhupāda: As other occupier.
Prabhupāda: Then don't give him. Let them live there, but...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then the question again comes up, which I mentioned to you, that if they're paying corporation taxes and other taxes, then they become the legal tenant, and a tenant does not lose the right of tenancy at his death. His children inherit it.
Prabhupāda:. Well, what is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So then it's not for their lifetime; it's forever.
Prabhupāda: There is no harm. They cannot mortgage or...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sublet it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They can simply live. I wanted that because he is formerly working for BBT... Work or not work, we asked him... Therefore we have given them a place to stay in right hand, and they can live, left hand, all of them. They cannot have the right to mortgage, sale, like that. That is our aim. They can live happily. This much I want. And if we give them right of proprietorship, the rascal may sell it or get out.
Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to vacate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, once they pay corporation taxes, they can claim tenancy. And a tenant... I can give you an example. In Calcutta, in Albert Road, where we currently have our temple, it was being rented by one member friend. Then he let Jayapatākā stay there, and then we took over. Of course, he was paying rent, but still, they can also be looked upon as a tenant because they'll be paying taxes.
Prabhupāda: Then you pay tax. Cut down from their pension. Huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it could be done.
Prabhupāda: We pay, and you cut down. Other tenants are there. But not tenants-occupier. What they are doing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're going to pay corporation taxes. See, we're the actual owners of the flat. There's no other instance like this. The other people who own the flats, they live in it. But we don't live in it; they live in it. So the flat is owned by us, but if they pay taxes and stuff, they're going to get the receipts in their name. I don't think they're going to get the receipts in your name.
Prabhupāda: Why not in my name?
Prabhupāda: So do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, if someone owns a flat and someone else is allowed to live there, if the person who's allowed to live there, but doesn't pay rent, when he pays taxes, the receipt for the taxes should be issued in the owner's name, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: If other owners are doing that, do that for us, in my name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, automatically the receipts will probably come in your name.
Jayapatākā: We pay the land tax. And receipt is given on the owner of the land, but it mentions who gave it as a matter of fact, but it's given in the name of the owner.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So can they claim any right as a tenant based upon the fact that they paid the taxes? All right, anyway, let us see. I mean, I understand your desire. We'll try and encourage them to fulfill your desire, that they live there and be happy. (background conversations) See, I think one of the things that should be done is that they should sign. Vrindavan should sign an agreement saying that he agrees not to sublet it to anybody else. Because right now there's no such agreement at all. We're letting them live there, and they can do whatever they want. When he comes here... He'll be coming here. So when he comes here he should sign an agreement that he agrees not to sublet or to let anyone else except the family members live in this apartment.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Guest (1): No, even it takes more time, they will give you the tax for tax deduction.(?) (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can explain to Prabhupāda that the system we are doing is the correct system.
Guest (1): Because we cannot sign now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. But you should explain to him that you agree.
Prabhupāda: I can sign, but it will not be...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same.
Prabhupāda: Therefore...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to bring the certificates here. That's the first thing. Whether it's your signature or whether it's our signatures, the certificate has to be brought here.
Guest (1): You may sign. If both of these will be given to me, that will do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll give in this plus the certificates to the bank, and they'll give us a receipt.
Prabhupāda: So you can take the copy of the safe custody receipt and inquire into Bank of Baroda.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no explanation. He must be sincere, the kavirāja, and must know how to do it. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On one hand, we didn't want to take Bhakti-caru Mahārāja away from you, because he's serving properly, and this is the best thing. I can see that you also don't want that. So then we can find... It's good if one Indian devotee goes with Smara-hari. But there are others that we can find. No, we can find someone. That's not... You don't have to tax yourself for that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. But this is our idea, that why we should wait here? The longer we wait, the colder the weather becomes. And what advantage do we gain by waiting here? There's no advantage gained. You could say "Well, because if we wait here and I get the medicine immediately, and I start to take the medicine, then I will become stronger." But our feeling is that strength will take time. So just by waiting for two weeks, the strength will not increase so significantly to make traveling less risky. Traveling is risky if we are not careful. If we take great care, then traveling will not be risky.
Prabhupāda: So by plane or train?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By plane or train? Well, I think that... I think train is better.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because... There's a number of reasons. First of all, there's no Jumbo jets, and they're Indian Airlines planes. They're Indian Airlines smaller planes. They're jets, but they're not the big jet. The flying...
Prabhupāda: No, nowadays that bus...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Airbus.
Girirāja: Well, he's only made two members. I think he's going to get into it a little more. He doesn't have to be registered to make members, because the two members he made... Tax exemption has to be... Each case is considered individually. There's no system, but the lawyer and other people I spoke to felt that, since it was a Hindu state, and since they wanted to encourage such activities, that they would give us tax exemption. There's even a community of Marwari businessmen. So Prabhaviṣṇu had made one or two members by giving receipts from Calcutta, since we're not registered. So I suggested that he should concentrate on the Marwaris for the time being, and he can give receipts from Calcutta, and that would be good practice, because they are the most willing to become members. And then, by the time he got registered, he could start approaching the Nepali businessmen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will the Calcutta receipt help them?
Girirāja: Well, I don't think...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They care much.
Girirāja: No. Just to give them something official. He has seven boys there now, and a few of them ...
Prabhupāda: They are taking their prasādam and living there?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we take the Taj Express, which is nonstop to Delhi, then stay in the Delhi temple, which is also nice, overnight, and then we proceed on to Calcutta. The next morning we leave on the plane at six-thirty in the morning and we arrive in Calcutta by about eight-thirty, and we should arrive in Māyāpur by noon. Does it sound like a good plan? Now you simply should gain more and more strength, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This time, until the kavirāja comes, from now until then, you should rest as much as possible, take these medicines. I think it's having a positive effect. You mentioned this morning that when you sit up you feel a little stronger now. I think it's good that you're not taxing yourself in any way. That's important. Would you like to do something specific right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What shall I do? (laughs)
Jayapatākā: A trust can hold fifty bighās of irrigated land, seventy bighās unirrigated. And once we turn that... If we turn that to nonagricultural land, then there's no limit. By paying twice the land tax we can convert to nonagricultural for the purpose of building our temple or building anything, and then it's no longer subject to any ceiling. We will see with lawyer very carefully that...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you can purchase in Svarūpa Dāmodara's name.
Bhavānanda: This land is for sale from whom? Muhammadans?
Jayapatākā: Yes, both Muhammadan and Hindu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we buy this land, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Why not? You have got money?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There is enough money.
Jayapatākā: We do not want to rest until every home in Bengal has a copy of Gītār Gān and Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Mr. Chowdury tried, but now he's been transferred from the development commissioner. Now he's the transport commissioner. So now all he can do is give us a free... He gives us, tax free, vehicles. But he can't give us the land anymore.
Prabhupāda: Tax free?
Jayapatākā: Our vehicles in Bengal, we don't pay any road tax. He's the transport commissioner, but he's no longer development commissioner. And if the government gives us some land on acquisition, we'll take. But I don't think they'll give a big amount, neither we should wait for that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's also utopian.
Prabhupāda: Photocopy of?
Girirāja: Of the trust deed forming the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. And then I bought a copy of the income tax act, because there's some provision that if funds are used to restore some ancient place of worship or some place of worship which is famous in a particular state, then that is exempt from income tax. So I think that this fits in with the aims and objects of this new trust. So we should be able to get tax exemption for that. I spoke to Bombay to see how things were doing, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa said that everything is going nice, and he's coming here on Friday, after two days. So I told him that your condition was very serious and that I wanted to stay here for a little longer. So he said that was okay. I confirmed with Yaśodānandana Swami's assistant that he sent the letter to the South Indian brāhmaṇas to confirm that they can come on the dates which we have fixed. So we're waiting to hear that reply.
Prabhupāda: You can take some brāhmaṇa from here. Balaram...
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They'll chant Veda-mantra very nice
Prabhupāda: Where is kavirāja?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's out again getting medicine. This man, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Adri-dhāraṇa says he sits up all night worried about you, thinking, taxing his mind how to give you just what you require.
Prabhupāda: No.
Bhakti-caru: Yesterday, when I went to call him at 4:30, I saw him sitting on his bed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All night. He goes in the jungle four, five hours looking for roots, herbs to give you. He's so sincere.
Prabhupāda: So many well-wishers, I cannot refuse. This is not my business. (Bengali) All right. You take Bābājī Mahārāja. That will be my going. (laughter)
| Page Title: | Tax (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 27 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=202, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 202 |