The whole Vedic knowledge is infallible. There are different examples how we take Vedic knowledge as infallible. Take for example, so far the Hindus are concerned, and how they accept the Vedic knowledge as complete, here is an insignificant example. Just like the cow dung. The cow dung is the stool of an animal. According to smṛti or Vedic wisdom, if one touches the stool of an animal he has to take his bath to purify himself. But in the Vedic scriptures the cow dung is as stated as pure. Rather, impure place or impure things are purified by touch of the cow dung. Now if one argues how it is that in one place it is said that the stool of the animal is impure and another place it is said that the cow dung which is also the stool of an animal, it is pure, so it is contradictory. But actually, it may appear to be contradictory, but because it is Vedic injunction, therefore for our practical purposes we accept it. And by that acceptance we are not committing mistake.
Take knowledge (Lectures)
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Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Their basic principle of knowledge is on the bodily concept of life, pratyakṣa, experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge means this gross sense perception. That is experimental. Pratyakṣa. Everyone says: "We do not see God." God is not such a subject matter that you can see with this pratyakṣa, direct perception. God's another name is Anubhāva. Anubhāva. Just like in this room we do not see the sun directly. But we know that there is sun. It is daytime. How do you know it? You do not see. But there are other processes by which you can experience. That is called aparokṣa. Pratyakṣa parokṣa aparokṣa. In this way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means adhokṣaja and aprakṛta, beyond the senses. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: adhokṣaja. Where direct perception cannot reach. So where direct perception cannot reach, then how you can perceive anubhāva? That is śrota-panthā. That is śruti. You have to take knowledge from the Vedas. And the Vedic knowledge is explained by guru. Therefore one has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme guru, or His representative. Then all these troubles, means ignorance, can be dissipated. Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8).
Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. Now, in Christian world also, that the water of the Jordan River is sacred is considered. Similarly, Hindus also, when they go to some pilgrimage, they take bath on the sacred river. But one should know that going to the sacred place does not mean simply to take bath in that water. Real meaning of going to a sacred place—to find out some intelligent scholar in spiritual knowledge. They are living there. To make association with them, to take knowledge from them—that is the purpose of going to pilgrimage. Because in pilgrimage, holy places... Just like I, my residence is at Vṛndāvana. So at Vṛndāvana there are many great scholars and saintly persons living. So one should go to such holy places not simply to take bath in the water, but he must be intelligent enough to find out some spiritually advanced man living there and take instruction from him and (be) benefited by that. But he does not go. He takes simply bath and purchases some goods and advertises, "Oh, I have been to such and such pilgrimage." Well... yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13) and yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu: "He has the attachment for pilgrimage, for taking bath only, but he has no attraction for the learned people there." You see?
You have to find out what is that small particle. You have to hear. Therefore you cannot get knowledge by your material activities. You have to hear it from the authorities; otherwise there is no possibility. Just like you cannot understand who is your father. You have to take the knowledge from your mother. If mother certifies, "This gentleman is your father," that is correct. But if you go on researching who is your father you will never be able to know who is your father. Similarly, what is life, what is soul, what is our, this body, what is the ultimate goal of life, why you are suffering—all this knowledge you have to take from the higher authorities. That is called Vedic process, not to endeavor by research. What you can research? Our fund of knowledge is very, very poor, limited. You cannot have perfect knowledge unless you hear from the authority. So Kṛṣṇa is the authority. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means you take knowledge from the best authority. Don't manufacture knowledge. That will not help you. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
The Vaiṣṇava Purāṇa says, yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, samatvenaiva vīkṣeta sa pāṣaṇḍī bhavad dhruvam: (CC Madhya 18.116) "Anyone who calculates Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, equal with such demigods, not, what to speak of ordinary human beings, even big, big demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, he immediately becomes a pāṣaṇḍī, atheist." So if... The Māyāvādī philosophy, they put forward this argument that "Because we are now in māyā, we are thinking that we are different from God." But Kṛṣṇa is making thus such differentiation that... He's making, He's saying, "You and I and all these." So does it mean that Kṛṣṇa is also covered by māyā or illusion? Because He is very clearly differentiating between Him and the living entities, all individuals. So if the Māyāvādī philosopher is right that this differentiation is due to our illusion, then we have to accept Kṛṣṇa is also in illusion. Because He's making differentiation. So if Kṛṣṇa is in illusion, then what is the use of taking His version? Because our proposition is that we have to take knowledge from the perfect person. So if Kṛṣṇa is in illusion, then how He can become perfect person, and the knowledge delivered by Him is perfect? No. Kṛṣṇa is not illusioned. We are in illusion. Kṛṣṇa is not in illusion. Kṛṣṇa cannot be in illusion.
"The same Vedic truth given to Arjuna is given to all persons in the world who pose themselves as very learned but factually have but a poor fund of knowledge." This is poor fund of knowledge that "God and I, we one. Now, because we are illusioned, we are thinking that God is different from me, but when the illusion is over, then I and God become one." This is Māyāvādī theory, monism. But actually this is not clear knowledge. God is..., God is always distinct from me. He's the Supreme. It is not that we are equal to God. We are equal to God in quality, not in quantity. Therefore those who are thinking that they are equal to God in every respect, they are illusioned. Māyā, māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have been called, they have been designated by Kṛṣṇa as māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Although they appear to be very learned scholars, but the essence of the knowledge is taken away by māyā. Therefore they say that God and ordinary human being is the same. Māyayā apahṛta... Asura. This is called āsura-bhāva. Āsura-bhāva means not to accept the supremacy of the Lord but think Him as one with all individual souls. But that is not the fact.
So we have to take this knowledge from authority. Here is Kṛṣṇa speaking. He's authority. We accept Kṛṣṇa: the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His knowledge is perfect. He knows past, present, and future. Therefore, He is teaching Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, the spirit soul within this body is eternal." That's a fact. Just like I can understand, I was in the past, I am in present, so I must be in the future. These are three phases of time, past, present, and future. In another place, we read in this Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The living entity is never born; neither it dies. Na jāyate means he never takes birth. Na jāyate na mriyate, it never dies. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is eternal, śāśvata, existing forever. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). By annihilation of this body, the soul does not die. Because... This is also confirmed in the Upaniṣads, Vedas: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The God is also eternal, and we are also eternal. We are part and parcels of God. Just like gold and fragments of gold; both of them are gold. Although I am fragment, a particle of gold or the spirit, still, I am spirit. So we get this information that both God and we, living entities, we are eternal. Nityo nityānām, nitya means eternal.
So we have to take this knowledge from authority. Here is Kṛṣṇa speaking. He's authority. We accept Kṛṣṇa: the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His knowledge is perfect. He knows past, present, and future. Therefore, He is teaching Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, the spirit soul within this body is eternal." That's a fact. Just like I can understand, I was in the past, I am in present, so I must be in the future. These are three phases of time, past, present, and future. In another place, we read in this Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The living entity is never born; neither it dies. Na jāyate means he never takes birth. Na jāyate na mriyate, it never dies. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is eternal, śāśvata, existing forever. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). By annihilation of this body, the soul does not die. Because... This is also confirmed in the Upaniṣads, Vedas: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The God is also eternal, and we are also eternal. We are part and parcels of God. Just like gold and fragments of gold; both of them are gold. Although I am fragment, a particle of gold or the spirit, still, I am spirit. So we get this information that both God and we, living entities, we are eternal. Nityo nityānām, nitya means eternal.
Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand one's self, this self-realization. How to realize self? We have to take knowledge from others. Knowledge means..., to acquire knowledge, to learn from the teacher. So here is the supreme teacher, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the supreme teacher by everyone, by all the great sages formerly, like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala, Asita. All other great sages. And recently, in the modern age, by our ācāryas, Śrī Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānuja, yes, Śaṅkarācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī. All these great sages, great ācāryas, they came from your South India. So you are fortunate in that sense. So we have to follow the ācāryas. All these ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. All these ācāryas. And later, lately, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He also accepted that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the acceptance in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Actually, I do not know things as they are, still, I am writing books. To educate people. Big, big scholars, they have no clear thought, clear understanding; still they write books. Even Darwin's theory. He's proposing, "Perhaps; it may be," and he's writing a big book, anthropology. And people are taking knowledge from that book. So if his knowledge based on "Perhaps; maybe," what is the value of that knowledge? So things are going on like that. The senses are imperfect. He has got a cheating propensity. Cheating propensity means he has no perfect knowledge; still, he wants to give knowledge, to become famous in the world, famous in the community. So what is the value of your writing books if you have no perfect knowledge? But because we have got a cheating propensity, we do like that. So Vedic knowledge is not like that. There is no cheating. There is no imperfection. There is no illusion. There is no error. That is Vedic knowledge.
If there is no light, then what is the power of my seeing? But these rascals they do not understand that they are always defective, and still, they are writing books of knowledge. What is your knowledge? We must take knowledge from the perfect person.
Therefore we are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, the perfect person. And He is advising that if you want to stop your pains and pleasure, then you must make some arrangement not to accept this material body. That He is advising, Kṛṣṇa, how to avoid this material body. That has been explained. This is Second Chapter. In the Fourth Chapter Kṛṣṇa has said that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). You simply try to understand the activities of Kṛṣṇa. These activities of Kṛṣṇa is there in the history, in the Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means greater India or greater Bhārata, Mahābhārata, the history. In that history this Bhagavad-gītā is also there.
That is our perfectional stage. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām means to be engaged in the loving service of God. So for cultivating knowledge, we are opening so many centers. You can take advantage and cultivate knowledge. Jñāna-tapasā. And practice little austerity. Get the knowledge. Just like we are discussing in this meeting. It is meant for acquiring knowledge. So we hold meeting at least twice, thrice in every center. So you can also participate and take the knowledge. And if you practice little austerity, then—two things, jñāna-tapasā—you become purified. And as soon as you are purified, you understand what you are, and what is God, and what is your relationship with God. And as soon as you know these three things your life is perfect.
So I am conscious to a certain extent only, not fully. I am not abhijñaḥ. I am not very expert. These are simple truths. But these rascals are claiming that "I am God." The God is, means he is conscious, not only conscious, He's abhijñaḥ, very expert, knows everything, and svarāṭ. Now, to get abhijñaḥ, abhijñatā or experience, we have to consult somebody. But God is svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means He's personally so independent that He doesn't require to take knowledge from anyone else. That is God. Svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means fully independent. That is God. Now how He become? Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. These are the description in the Veda. Svābhāvikī. His knowledge is very natural. Svābhāvikī. Just like here something itching. Immediately my hand, attention, yes. Svābhāvikī. It is not that I have to think, "Now here it is itching, what I have to do?" No, you have... Immediately, hand comes. Svābhāvikī, by nature.
So our proposition is that to receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We accept śāstra, means which is infallible. There is no mistake. Just like when I was walking near the cowshed, heaps of, piles of cow dung was there. So I was explaining to my followers that if such heaps of animal, I mean to say, man stool was heaped up here, nobody would come here. Nobody would come here. But the cow dung, there are so much heaps of cow dung, still, we find it pleasure to go through it. And in the Vedas it is said, "Cow dung is pure." This is called śāstra. If you argue, "How it can, it has become pure? It is an animal stool." But the Vedas, they... Because the knowledge is perfect, that even in argument we cannot prove how animal stool becomes pure, but it is pure. Therefore Vedic knowledge is perfect. And if we take knowledge from the Vedas, we save so much time for investigating, or researching. We are very much fond of research. Everything is there in the Vedas. Why do you waste your time?
Prabhupāda: When you become dvija, twice-born. Twice-born means you come to the point of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When you take your birth from your parents, your consciousness is different. Just like the child. His consciousness is different, but when he's grown-up, if he takes to knowledge, if he tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, his consciousness is different. So when one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the beginning of his second birth, dvija.
Jaya-gopāla: Well, I've been told then that we can have no more karmic reactions from our actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is no more reaction of your karma.
Jaya-gopāla: I've also been told that if we are serving someone, we can cause them to return to render us some service.
Prabhupāda: Well, you must be in service somebody if it is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You cannot create your service independently. Then your service has no reaction. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you have no more any personal activity. Because your person is also related to Kṛṣṇa. How you can act personally? You have to simply act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is dedication, that is surrender. But you can act individually because you are individual soul; you have got that independence. But that will not make him happy. If he acts individually then he will never be happy. But if you act Kṛṣṇa consciously, then you will be happy. That is the whole instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And the last instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). "You give up all other activities, as you have manufactured by different consciousness. Just surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi... "I shall give you protection from all sinful reaction.
Just like a child may ask his father that "What is this?" because he is astonished that the sound is very loud. So the child may not know, so inquires from the father, "Father, what is this? So father says, "My dear child, this is microphone. And when you speak through this machine, your sound becomes louder." So the child takes the knowledge from the father, and if he repeats or he understands firmly, "My father has said. It is perfectly right," then his knowledge is perfect. The child may be imperfect.
So our Vedic process is like that. We do not make any research. It is not possible to come to the right knowledge by so-called research, because our senses are imperfect. Just like we see through the telescope and we come under certain conclusion, but the fact is that I am the same person seeing through the telescope, and telescope is also manufactured by me or by you. So machine is imperfect and my seeing power is also imperfect. Then how you can have perfect knowledge? The machine is created by a person who has got imperfect knowledge, and the seer is also a person; he is also imperfect. The imperfect person is seeing through the imperfect machine. Then how we can conclude perfect knowledge? This is not possible.
He comes. He's so kind. He comes, He gives personally instruction, and He leaves the instruction recorded. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. This Bhagavad-gītā was spoken by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna, and it was recorded by Sañjaya, by the grace of Vyāsadeva. And then Vyāsadeva put the conversation in the Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means "The History of Greater India." That is Mahābhārata. The whole planet is called Bhārata, Bhāratavarṣa. And the history of the whole planet is called Mahābhārata. In this Mahābhārata, this Bhagavad-gītā is set in for the knowledge of the all human being. It is not meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, for the brāhmaṇas, for the... No. It is meant for everyone to take perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa and be happy. If you want to become happy actually, then Kṛṣṇa's instruction you accept. We are already fallen. Now if we want to save ourselves from this fallen condition, take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and do not try to deviate, do not try to interpret in your own whimsical way, in a rascal way. Simply try to understand what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Then your life will be perfect.
Now, what is this newspaper? Oh, you, from newspaper you understand that "In China such and such things have taken place. And in India such and such things have taken place." Or from radio message you understand that "Such and such things have taken place." But you are not experiencing them directly, whether such and such things have actually taken place. But you accept the authority of the newspaper. You accept the authority of newspaper and you believe it, that in China such and such things have taken place and in India such and such things have taken place, which is far beyond the range of your direct perception. Similarly, there are many instances. We have to believe the authority to take knowledge. And the more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. The more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. Direct perception in all cases, it is not possible to receive direct perception of everything. Take, for example... (shouts from outside on street) Ask them not to make noise.
So if we don't take to tapasya and don't take to knowledge, then this human form of life is spoiled. That, that, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose.
So today is Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's birthday, Rādhāṣṭamī. So we called you for meeting. This Rādhārāṇī, about some, Rādhārāṇī... Because this Rādhārāṇī is the source of spiritual inspiration. Source of spiritual inspiration. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho... Prakṛtiṁ parām (BG 7.5). The aparā-prakṛti is this material world, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4).
And there is another prakṛti, parā-prakṛti. That is also mentioned here: mad-bhāvam. Mad-bhāvam means the nature in which Kṛṣṇa is there. In this material nature, although Kṛṣṇa is there, but we do not understand. We cannot see Kṛṣṇa. That is material, forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. But when you remember Kṛṣṇa even in this material world, then it becomes spiritual.
So this is Vedic civilization. Don't be carried away. Take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā and make your life successful. That is the propaganda of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't become cats and dogs and advertise yourself as paṇḍita. These are the definition of paṇḍita. Either take you from Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's materialistic point of view, moral lessons, or spiritual lessons from Bhagavad-gītā, the definition of paṇḍita is different from the so-called paṇḍitas, having... That is... They are called māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Although they have got degrees of the universities, but actually, knowledge is taken away by māyā.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
If one becomes atheist, then his knowledge has no value. Because real knowledge is... As Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This is real knowledge.
Just like a man in knowledge, he never commits any mistake lawfully. So he is not a member or subjected to be punished in the prisonhouse, because he has got full knowledge of the law. If anyone knows.... Even ordinary dealings, just like "Keep to the right, keep to the left." You are driving your car. If you are fully aware that "If I go to the right, it will be criminal," then you are not subjected to be fined, mukta, if you are in full knowledge. Therefore our first business is to be situated in knowledge. Jñānāvasthita-cetasaḥ.
So this knowledge is being imparted by Kṛṣṇa Himself, Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning of this knowledge is when Arjuna accepted Him as guru. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). "Now no more friendly talks. I become your disciple." So this is the position. Knowledge should be taken from the perfect person. Because if you take knowledge from a person who is defective, your knowledge has no value. You must take knowledge from the perfect.
Sinful life means our fault, to remain in ignorance. You take knowledge. There is book of knowledge. There is spiritual master. They are canvassing. We are canvassing, "Come here. Try to understand God consciousness." Nobody is coming. Who is responsible? They are responsible. God is not responsible. For your sinful activities God is not responsible. You are responsible. God is canvassing you, "Please come to Me. I will give you all protection." Oh, I am stubborn: "No. I shall not go to You." Then you suffer. What can be done?
Therefore knowledge, when one understands by the grace of spiritual master—"Oh, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Why not go to Kṛṣṇa?" Therefore, "even if you are considered to be the most sinful, all sinners, when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge..." This is transcendental knowledge, that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So why I am rotting here? Let me see where is Kṛṣṇa." "You will be able to cross over the ocean of miseries." Go on.
One process is to understand by the ascending process. And another process is the descending process. Just like in darkness, if you try to understand what is sun by ascending process, by flying your very powerful airplane or sputniks, just go round over the sky, you cannot see. But the descending process, when the sun rises, you understand immediately. Ascending process—my endeavor, what is called inductive process. Inductive process. Just like my father says that man is mortal. I accept it. Now if you want to study whether man is mortal, you study, you see many thousands of men, whether he is immortal or mortal. That will take so much time. But if you take the knowledge from the superior authority, that man is mortal, your knowledge is complete.
So one who possesses all these six things in complete, He is God. This is the definition of God. Complete strength, complete beauty, complete knowledge, complete riches, and complete renunciation. In the moment renounced... Everything... Suppose I have got ten dollars, and if you ask, "Oh, give me all these ten dollars," oh, I shall ten times think before renouncing these ten dollars. But Kṛṣṇa, He is the proprietor of all riches, but He can renounce anything. So these are the definition of bhagavān. Here it is, the bhagavān word is, used; therefore I give you a little definition of bhagavān. So bhagavān uvāca. Now, because He is complete in knowledge, therefore His instruction is valuable. Our knowledge is not complete. Now, we are taking knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā, from bhagavān, but there is no history that Kṛṣṇa had this knowledge from any spiritual master. No. He had not to go because He is complete. There was no need of Kṛṣṇa for going to any spiritual... Arjuna has come to Kṛṣṇa for knowledge because He is complete always.
So don't you think Kṛṣṇa is the highest authority? So whatever knowledge you receive from Kṛṣṇa is far better than the newspaper knowledge. We are always in the lowest stage. Either I read Bhagavad-gītā or newspaper, I am not with the sputnik, but newspaper says that sputnik has gone 25,000 up, so I believe it. So I believe the newspaper, not that, "Oh, I want to see." Now, can you see how sputnik is flying? And why do you say, when Bhagavad-gītā is spoken, "Oh, I want to see." You just take complete knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the complete person. That's all. That will make you perfect. Yes. So bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān uvāca. That does he say? Pārtha na eva iha nāmutra vināśas tasya vidyate. You mind that. "One who is making, attempting for spiritual advancement, oh, either in this life or in the next life, he'll never be vanished. He'll never be vanished." Na hi kalyāṇa-kṛt kaścid durgatiṁ tāta gacchati: "Oh, this is the highest auspicious attempt. After attempting, nobody degrades. Nobody degrades." Even attempt is not fully successful, nobody degrades. It is so nice.
But because we cannot see the form, we say nirākāra. It is our incompetency. Just like I cannot see beyond this wall. My seeing power is limited. Therefore I see there is nothing beyond this. There is nothing beyond this room. That is not fact. There is everything. I can see the sun, which is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet, but my eyes are seeing, daily just like a disc. So don't believe your senses. Your senses are imperfect. Whatever knowledge you get by experimental knowledge, experimental method, that is the modern ways of understanding. But these things cannot be experimented. Therefore we have to take the knowledge from the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These are Vedic mantras. We have to understand the transcendental science through Vedic knowledge. By our imperfect knowledge, if we try to understand the Absolute Truth, naturally we shall find Him.
So our request is that you take knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā and act accordingly. It doesn't matter what you are. Bhagavān is for everyone. God is God. Just like gold is gold. If gold is handled by Hindu, it does not become Hindu gold. Or the gold is handled by Christian, it does not become Christian gold. Gold is gold. Similarly, dharma is one. Religion is one. There cannot be Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion. That is artificial. Just like "Hindu gold," "Muslim gold." That is not possible. Gold is gold. Similarly religion. Religion means the law given by God. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ na vai vidur ṛṣayo manuṣyāḥ (SB 6.3.19), like that—I just forget—that "Dharma, this principle of dharma, religious system, is ordained or given by God." So God is one; therefore dharma, or religious system, should be one. There cannot be two.
One of the qualification of Bhagavān is aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), jñāna. He has got full knowledge. He hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone else. Svābhāvikī jñāna. Bhagavān means svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇam, this is Vedic injunction,
- na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate
- na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate
- parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate
- svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca
(Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport)
Svābhāvikī jñāna, all full knowledge He has got. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), He is the creator of everything. So how He got this knowledge to float these big, big planets in the air? That is knowledge, that is art. Just like when you float a big aeroplane in the sky, it requires knowledge, it requires technology, art. It is not flying automatically; that is a mistake. So if to float an ordinary airship it requires so much knowledge, so much technology, how much knowledge is there when you see that the biggest planet, the sun is floating in the air, and it is lying in one corner of the sky and exactly in time it is rotating, yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ? There is knowledge. There is art who has fixed it. Therefore in the Vedas it is said yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. He is also rotating in the orbit by the order of Govinda. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.
Just like it has become a fashion, so many Gods, competition is going on. No. There is no competition. God is one. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate, na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. That is God. So because God is complete in knowledge, therefore we have to take knowledge from Him, not from the persons who have got incomplete knowledge. That knowledge is not perfect. We must take knowledge from the person, we have to take knowledge from the person:
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
We have to approach. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). We have to approach a superior person, guru, and take knowledge from him. The most superior person is Kṛṣṇa. You may doubt others, that may be, but when you come to Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect knowledge. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
So practically, nobody's living a very long time. Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ and manda. They do not know that they have a mission of life. Siddhi. Siddhi-lābha. They do not know. Like cats and dogs, dying. Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ sabhya kalāv asmin yuge, mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ. And if one is interested for spiritual life, they are also captured by so many pseudo spiritual things. Pseudo. Manda. Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ sabhya kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ, mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a different views. They do not like to take knowledge from the Vedic, perfect knowledge from the Vedic literature or from Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own way of life, this mandaḥ sumanda-matayaḥ. And manda-bhāgyāḥ. And unfortunate, mostly they are unfortunate. And hy upadrutāḥ. And distributed by so many things. Sometimes earthquake, sometimes famine, sometimes scarcity of water, sometimes war, or sometimes fight. So many things, problems, simply problems. This is the position of this age.
Then next item is cheating. Cheating means with imperfect knowledge one takes the place of a teacher. And the last deficiency is that our senses are imperfect. It is not independent. Still, we are very much proud of our senses. For example, atheist class of men, they say that "Can you show me God?" He does not think whether he has got any power to see. So far our eyes are concerned, we can see so long when the conditions are fulfilled. Just like we are speaking. As soon as the light will be off, we cannot see one another. So what is the value of these eyes? You simply see under certain conditions. You simply smell under certain conditions. You can hear under certain condition. So therefore your materialistic life is conditional life.
So this jñāna, even this jñāna, the change of body is not there. Throughout the whole world, big, big professor, big, big educationist, they do not believe in the next birth. 99.9 percent, they do not. But this is a fact. There is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Kṛṣṇa says. And we understand this also. Kṛṣṇa gives this example: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This child is becoming kumāra; a kumāra is becoming boy; boy is becoming young man; young man is becoming old man. So these changes are going on; still, he does not know that "After this old body is finished, I shall have to accept another body." So this is ignorance. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the most perfect Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is real knowledge.
So that jñānam, theoretical, and vijñānam, sa-vijñānaṁ vakṣyāmi, Kṛṣṇa will teach, "Take this jñānam." The most perfect personality. So this is our business. But do we...? We don't care for Kṛṣṇa. We do not know Kṛṣṇa and what to speak of taking knowledge from Him. The knowledge is there, but we are so fool that we do not take knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. We manufacture our own knowledge. This is called māyā. Māyā is so strong that she'll not allow to take real knowledge from the real person, but we shall read volumes of books who are defective with their four kinds of imperfectness, namely they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they are cheater and their senses are imperfect.
So this is the first business, that "Where we shall take knowledge?" Tad-vijñānārtham. Vedic lesson is that tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum eva abhigacchet: "You should go to guru." Just like Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. When Arjuna was puzzled, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "I am kṣatriya. It is my duty to fight, but I am declining. Although You are requesting me to fight, still I am declining. So I am puzzled. Anyway, I can understand You can drive away my, this puzzling position.
They're simply cheating. Simply cheating. It is not possible. But we know that life cannot be produced by any chemical combination because we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). The jīva, the living entities, is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So how it can be prepared by chemical composition? It is not possible. There are so many things. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "If you study knowledge which I am giving to you," yaj jñātvā, "perfectly, then," na iha bhūyaḥ anyaj jñānam, anya, "other department of knowledge will be manifest automatically. You'll know everything." This is the secret. Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. You haven't got to learn departmentally anything else. Just see. This is the benefit. This is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you haven't got to work hard to understand other department of knowledge. You simply try to take this knowledge and you'll be perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
We must know kṛṣṇa-tattva. The same thing I was explaining yesterday. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). You try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply try to understand and study Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is giving about Himself. You haven't got to speculate just like so many theosophists and philosophers and theologists, and they are trying to speculate to understand what is God. Why you are speculating, wasting your time? Why not take full knowledge here? Everything is ready. No, that they will not take. They will speculate. So let them speculate. They will never be successful. But if you want success, you Kṛṣṇa conscious men, then you read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly and understand and try to understand Kṛṣṇa perfectly. You'll understand because Kṛṣṇa is giving His own identity, identification, what He is. Then where is the difficulty? And if you understand Kṛṣṇa, you become perfect. You become perfect, So perfect that... Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). If you understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then immediate benefit is that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You have to give up this body. It is a fact. But after giving up, this is your last material body. No more material body. Your spiritual body.
"These eight kinds of materials, gross and subtle, they are My energy." It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not talking any nonsense. He's not bluffing you. At least those who are advanced, why you are reading Bhagavad-gītā? Because it is authoritative; Kṛṣṇa is speaking. That is fact. The most exalted authority. We have to take knowledge from the authority; we cannot manufacture knowledge. That is not... That is imperfect knowledge, because our senses are imperfect.
We have got four deficiencies. We commit mistakes, we become illusioned... We commit mistake, everyone knows. I have several times talked that even a personality like Gandhi, he committed so many mistakes. So, so long you are conditioned by the material nature, you must commit mistake.
If we get knowledge by the pure paramparā system, pure disciplic succession, that knowledge is perfect. Then our life is perfect. And if we want to try to expound knowledge by our limited power, that is imperfect knowledge. That knowledge is not perfect. That is concoction. If you want to take perfect knowledge, then you must get from the authorities. Evaṁ paramparā. That is Vedic knowledge.
- tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet
- samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
- (MU 1.2.12)
One must go to the guru. And who is guru? Guru, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham—"One who has heard from the paramparā system and he has become completely convinced in the understanding of Brahman."
So, so this is the process. This bhūmir āpaḥ, this material, it is not a fact. People are so much attached to this material world. That is called ignorance. Mūḍha. They are called mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Their knowledge has been taken away. These things will be explained in the later verses, that do not try to take knowledge from imperfect person; take knowledge from the perfect person, perfect Supreme Personality. Who is perfect? God is perfect. And who carries the word of God, he is perfect. This is the definition of perfection. So Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Matter is produced by Kṛṣṇa's energy. It is not automatically produced. Just like I have given the example that this body, this material gross body, is produced out of the soul which is put into the womb of the mother by the semina of the father. These are... These descriptions are there in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, very nicely, you consult.
It is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya: (SB 1.1.1) "The original person from whom everything is born," yataḥ, anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ, "He knows everything perfectly, indirectly and directly." Anvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ. And wherefrom He got the knowledge? Now, svarāṭ. That is His... God means svarāṭ. He hasn't got to get any knowledge from anyone else. Everyone gets knowledge from Him, but He hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone, svarāṭ, independent. So the Brahmā, the first lord, first creature, living creature, so he got knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye: (SB 1.1.1) "That Supreme Person gave the knowledge to the ādi-kavi." Ādi-kavi means Lord Brahmā, the first learned man.
So our Vedic conception of life, creation, is not like the Darwin, that his first creation... I do not know what is, but they think that they'll get knowledge from monkey. But we do not take knowledge from monkey. (laughter) Therefore we do not keep ourself in darkness. If you take knowledge from monkey, then you remain always like monkey. You cannot be advanced. But here it is... Bhāgavata says, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye: We got knowledge directly from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Therefore Brahmā is generated from Viṣṇu. So the first living creature, the perfect person within this material world who got instruction there, that is the beginning of creation. Beginning of creation is not crude or ignorance. Beginning of creation is first-class knowledge. That is the Vedic conception.
Then what is your business? To serve Him, that's all. This is natural position. In the material world he is going to serve somebody, ready(?), from somebody else for his bread; still, he is thinking, "I am God." Just see what kind of God he is. (laughter) This is rascal, he is thinking that he is God. If he is driven away from the office, he'll not get his bread, and he is God. This is material world. Everyone is thinking "I am God." Therefore they have been called mūḍhas, rascals. They do not surrender to God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Apahṛta-jñānāḥ. His real knowledge is taken away. He does not know that he is small, God is great, his business is to serve God. This knowledge is taken away. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This is the sign.
And you can understand by the one symptom. Just like pressing one rice from the whole pot of the rice you can understand the rice is quite all right, similarly, by one symptom you can understand who is a rascal, by one symptom. What is that? Na māṁ prapadyante. He is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa? He's a rascal. That's all. Immediately you take it without any consideration that anyone who is not devotee of Kṛṣṇa, who is not prepared to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, he's a rascal. That's all. This is our conclusion.
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
So if you actually require perfect knowledge, then we have to accept knowledge this, like this way. It is called avaroha-panthā. Avaroha-panthā means a descendence or deductive process. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we claim that we have got perfect knowledge of everything because we are taking knowledge from the perfect person—Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And that is the real process. If you simply speculate to arrive at the conclusion, inductive process... Just like if you want to study whether man is mortal or immortal, there are two processes. Deductive process, you take the idea from superior person that man is mortal. If you accept, then your knowledge is perfect. But if you want to approach the knowledge by inductive process, by studying each man, whether he is mortal or immortal, you may study thousand, two thousand, five thousand, but you cannot study all the men. Therefore your conclusion remains always defective. You cannot do that. Therefore the best process is knowledge is to receive from the person who is authorized. Actually, you do that. We go to a school, we go to college, to receive knowledge from the superior person. That is our process. That is perfect knowledge. You cannot manufacture knowledge.
Simply for sense gratification. Not for any big but to satisfy the senses. "Oh, oh, my tongue is asking for a cigarette, asking for wine. All right, give the tongue wine." Why? Without cigarette, without wine, you shall die? "No, I want to satisfy my tongue." Indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. "So why it is sinful?" It is sinful in this way, that... Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti, na sādhu manye (SB 5.5.4). "Oh, it is not good." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada. Ātmā, ātmā is eternal, but he is covered by this material body. Asann api. You can say, "All these material bodies, they are for a few years." But it is kleśada, it is so much miserable. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). People have lost their brain. They do not know what is actually unhappiness, miserable condition. They have no... "All right..." That is all... Animals, the animals do not know. He's going to the slaughterhouse. "All right, let me go." That's all.
So this kind of civilization will not make you happy, sir. You have got... Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma... You have taken your birth in the puṇya-bhūmi, in the sacred land of Bhāratavarṣa. Here is your knowledge. Take it and be successful in your life.
Thank you very much. (end)
So instead of wasting our energy for so-called facilities, we should apply our energy: "What I am? Why I am suffering? I do not like to suffer. Why suffering is imposed upon me?" This is called knowledge. But by the illusory energy of māyā, the so-called knowledge, our real knowledge has been taken away, and some foolish knowledge has been imposed upon us that we are thinking, "Oh, we are advancing. Advancement of knowledge." By advancement of knowledge, we have manufactured atom bomb so that killing process can be accelerated. People are dying, and that dying process is accelerated, and we are proud. Advancement of knowledge. Oh, manufacture something which will stop death; then you will have advancement of knowledge. Killing is there. What advancement? Killing is there and you are facilitating, you are making more killing at one drop. This is not knowledge. This is called māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, "the knowledge taken by the illusory energy."
Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Last day we have been discussing four classes of men who come to God and four classes of men who do not come to God. The four classes of men who do not come to God, they are impious, foolish, lowest of the mankind, and their knowledge is taken away by the illusory energy and they are atheists.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
We have discussed this point in detail. The next, that four classes of men, ārto arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha... Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣa... (BG 7.16). Four classes of men who are pious but at the same time distressed, poverty-stricken, and inquirous, and inquisitive of transcendental knowledge, and jñānī, and philosopher, jijñāsu, inquisitive and philosopher—these four classes of men, they come to God.
So we have to take knowledge from the perfect person. So what is the difference between this material world and the spiritual world? In the material world we are conditioned, and in the spiritual world we are liberated. This is the difference. In material... What is conditioned life? Conditioned life means subjected to the rules and regulation of the material nature. That is conditioned life. Just like we have got this body. This is also a condition of the material nature. We have got different types of bodies, why? Because we are conditioned. According to our karma we have got different types of body, 8,400,000's of bodies. So liberated life means not to go under the condition of this material nature. That is liberated life. In the conditioned life there are four defects. Out of many other conditions, so far our knowledge is concerned, that is defective. Why? Because we commit mistakes. Every one of us, we commit mistake, we are illusioned, our senses are imperfect, and we have a tendency to cheat. This is four defects of conditioned life. But the liberated life they have no such conditions.
Kṛṣṇa preached this Bhagavad-gītā, five thousand years ago, but it was not broadly preached. It was spoken on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Arjuna knew it and some of his other friends. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa. He appeared as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And He distributed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and He wanted that every Indian should seriously take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, make his life perfect, and distribute the knowledge. This is India's duty. So you have got one opportunity, you Indian people, that you take this advantage of distributing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is good for you and for everyone who takes the knowledge very adherently. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... This is Ninth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā where He is speaking plainly about bhāgavata-bhakti. And this knowledge is described as rāja-guhyam.
In another place it is said that, just like He says that "The worshiping the other demigod, that is also worshiping Me," but avidhi bhur bhavam. Yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam: that is not vidhi. Vidhi is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66), to worship Kṛṣṇa. It is very simple. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). But people will not accept this simple thing which will give him complete perfection. But māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ, because they have taken the atheistic view, āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ, therefore māyā has taken his knowledge. They..., everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayaiva vihitān hi tān. If we worship other demigod, they cannot independently offer you any benediction. Kṛṣṇa said, mayaiva vihitān hi tān. They have to take sanction from the Supreme Personality of Godhead before giving you the benediction. But still such benediction is temporary, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). They are temporary.
Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). In every forms of life, as many living entities are there... I have explained, there are different forms of life. Even within the water there are 900,000 forms of life. This is Vedic knowledge. You can take directly knowledge. You can understand. You do not require to dive into the water and make study, aquatic research work. You take the knowledge from the Vedic literature. You immediately understand that there are 900,000 species of life. This is different forms. The living entity, soul, is everywhere. But according to his karma... Just like nowadays people are very fond of diving within the water and swim. This has become a fashion. So next life they are going to become fish. Yes. Because yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If you at the time of death, if you think of that, how to swim very nicely within the water, that means next life nature will give you a fish life. You get it. That is God's mercy. Why you artificially try to become a fish? You become actually fish. That is nature's gift. So you'll get. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran. This is stated in the Bhagavad... Because whatever we practice in our life, so that concept of life, that imagination, continues.
So in this way, by the process of evolution, we come to this point of human form of life. And if you are actually civilized, then take advantage of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and make your choice, whether you are going back to home, back to Godhead, or again in the cycle of birth and death. This is the point. So if we accept the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa with faith, then our life are successful. And why you should not take? It is not very difficult. And if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction... He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is speaking everything which is correct. If you take instruction from others... Others means those have no connection with God, or Kṛṣṇa. They cannot give you correct information because they are conditioned under the laws of nature. The defect is, ordinary person will commit mistake, will be illusioned, his senses are imperfect, and he has the tendency to cheat. This is ordinary living being. And those who are followers of Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa Himself, they have no such defect. Whatever they say, that is correct. So if we take correct knowledge, then our life is successful. And if we want to be cheated, then there are many cheaters. They'll cheat you. So make your choice, which way you shall go, whether you shall go back to home, back to Godhead, or again go to the cycle of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).
Oh. So sentiment must be there. But sentiment, ecstasy, from material point of view, sentiment, that is different. Spiritual sentiment, aṣṭa-sāttvika-vikāra (CC Antya 14.99). There are eight kinds of ecstatic sentiment. That is not possible for ordinary person. When one is advanced, they are visible. That is called budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. So we have to understand this fact, that, as Kṛṣṇa says, we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.
We, we are all born fools and rascals. That is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas abodha-jātaḥ. Jātaḥ. We are all born fools and rascals. That is a fact. You (We) know. Therefore, we are sent to schools for education. Because we are fools and rascals. Unfortunately, after so-called education also, we remain fools and rascals. Because we do not know... There is no educational system to understand ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattva... The human life is meant for understanding ātma-tattvam. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahman, ātmā, the same thing, absolute. The human life is meant for inquiring about ātmā, what I am.
Some of you businessman. Some of you clerk. That doesn't matter. You keep yourself in your position. You remain as American. You remain as Christian. It doesn't matter. But there is no harm in hearing Bhagavad-gītā. There is no harm. You'll get knowledge. You'll get knowledge. You'll become better Christian. You'll become better American. You see? It is not the purpose, that we are trying to convert American into Indian, or Indian into American, or Christian into Hindu. That is not our mission. We are just preaching the science of Kṛṣṇa, or science of God, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everyone can learn this science. Just like when you go to college there is no question of whether a man is American or Indian or African. Everyone is allowed in the schools, college and universities to take science, knowledge. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, science of God. Everyone can take. Sthāne sthitāḥ. You just keep yourself in your place. There is no need of change.
"Oh, some of them, some of the atheists, they are very learned scholars." But the answer is māyayā-apahṛta-jñānāḥ: "They are superficially very learned, but actually their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Just like Rāvaṇa, he was very learned scholar in Vedas. He was son of a brāhmaṇa. And materially he was very, very opulent. But because he did not care for Rāma, he is addressed as rākṣasa. This is the... He was also a great devotee of Lord Śiva. But still, in the śāstra he is described as rākṣasa. So māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. So this is the position.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa directly says how you can become devotee or dear to Kṛṣṇa. Or, in other words, how you will be seen by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is seeing your activities, but especially, to take care of you... Kṛṣṇa takes care. As soon as you become a devotee, immediately He takes care of you. Otherwise you are under the care of māyā, this material energy. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
So in this material world there may be somebody supreme, but he is not ultimate supreme. But ultimate supreme is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). So if we receive knowledge from the ultimate supreme, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, then our knowledge is perfect. If we receive knowledge secondary, second-hand knowledge, that is also good. Second-hand knowledge means one who has received knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. That knowledge is perfect. But one who speculates, "It may be like that, it may be like this," that knowledge is not perfect.
So in the modern world every knowledge is speculative, hypothetical. There is no perfect knowledge. So if you want to be perfectly in knowledge, then you have to take knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is here delivered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa in the form of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Arjuna is asking this question so that people may receive the perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa and their life may be perfect in that way.
That is wanted. In ignorance if we fight, there is no solution. In darkness if we fight, we may wound, I may wound you, you may wound me, but there will be no solution. So the whole world is in darkness. Therefore there is struggle. One is capitalist, one is communist, one is this, one is that, and there is struggle because everyone is in ignorance, māyā andhakāra, in darkness of ignorance. And Kṛṣṇa is light. Ignorance fighting will not make any solution of the problem. We must come to the light and take knowledge from the most enlightened, Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān.
Bhagavān means He is endowed with six kind of opulence. He is the supreme rich. He is the supreme famous. He is supreme beauty and supreme wise. We have to take knowledge from the supreme wise. That knowledge is perfect. Therefore here it is said, bhagavān uvāca. He did not say kṛṣṇa uv... Vyāsadeva does not say Kṛṣṇa because Kṛṣṇa may be taken by the demons as something like us. So therefore he purposefully says, bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān uvāca means the Supreme Personality of God. There cannot be any doubt about His knowledge. So bhagavān uvāca, whatever Bhagavān says, that is fact; that is not knowledge like that "It may be," "Perhaps." These are all rascaldom. "It may be, perhaps"—that is not knowledge. That is speculation. Speculation is different.
And knowledge is different. You cannot speculate about the absolute knowledge because our senses are imperfect. How we can speculate or come to the right conclusion? That is not possible. We must receive direct knowledge. This is this. Therefore it is said, bhagavān uvāca. So whatever Bhagavān will speak, that is absolute knowledge. And if we take it, then we shall be perfect. I may be imperfect, you may be imperfect, but when we take knowledge from the perfect, that knowledge is absolute.
Just like a child does not know something, what it is, but if he asks his father, "Father, what it is?" and the father will not cheat, he will give him the right knowledge, "This is this," so he may be a small child, imperfect, but because he receives the knowledge from his father, who knows, that knowledge is perfect.
Similarly, we receive knowledge from Bhagavān, and we distribute that. We don't make any addition or alteration. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We don't make any addition or alteration. Therefore it is perfect. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, whatever knowledge they are spreading, that is perfect. Don't think the man who is spreading, he is imperfect. He may be imperfect. He is imperfect. I am imperfect. Every one of us is imperfect. But we are not spreading the imperfect knowledge because we are simply spreading what Kṛṣṇa has said. We are repeating. That's all.
So our process, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, means we take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa who is liberated from these four kinds of deficiencies. That knowledge is perfect. Similarly, Arjuna is also inquiring from Kṛṣṇa. Etad veditum icchāmi. Etad veditum icchāmi jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ ca keśava. What is actual knowledge and what is the subject matter of knowledge. That means six questions are presented by Arjuna before Kṛṣṇa. One pair, prakṛti-puruṣa, kṣetra-kṣetra-jña, and jñānaṁ jñeyam, what is knowledge and what is the subject matter of knowledge. Six questions. Śrī bhagavān uvāca. Now, here Kṛṣṇa is speaking, but Vyāsadeva, who recorded this dialogue between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, he is writing, "bhagavān uvāca." He does not say, "kṛṣṇaḥ uvāca." "Kṛṣṇa" may be misunderstood. But Kṛṣṇa is bhagavān. He wants to stress on this point.
This body, according to Ayurvedic system of medicine, this body is made of three elements—kapha, pitta, vāyu: mucus, bile, and cough. So anyway, so tri-dhātuke... This body, is made of material elements. I am spirit soul; I am not material element. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." This is knowledge. But if one does not take this knowledge, he remains with the bodily concept of life, "I finger," not "my finger," then he is in ignorance. "I head," not "my head." Nobody says, "I head." Everyone says "My head." But find out who is "I." This is knowledge.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says etad yo vetti: "One who understands this simple education in the beginning, etad yo vetti, "if anyone understands this, that 'I am not this body, I am the owner of the body. I am the occupier of the body...' " The body is just like a rented house, and there are two interested person. One is the occupier, and the other is the owner.
So this is going on. What you do not know exactly—simply theoretically you put some theories and speculate—that is not knowledge. But our process, we are getting knowledge from the perfect personality. That is Vedic system. You acquire knowledge from a person who is perfect in knowledge. Perfect in knowledge and imperfect in knowledge. So long we are imperfect, we cannot give perfect knowledge. Therefore we must find out knowledge from the perfect person. That is Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru. Guru means one who has got perfect knowledge. One who hasn't got perfect knowledge, he cannot become guru. How he can? Guru means heavy. So if I am light and I take knowledge from another light person, then what is the use of such knowledge?
Anyway, we have to accept knowledge from the perfect person. This is the sum and substance. Unless we take knowledge form the perfect person, our knowledge is defective. Therefore Arjuna is asking, "What is this prakṛti, material nature? What is puruṣa?" Puruṣa means who is trying to exploit (break) ...he is also prakṛti. Prakṛti. Just try to understand, woman, strī. But if one strī wants to enjoy another strī. So how it is possible? That is not possible. There must be puruṣa. So puruṣa, these living entities, although they have dressed like puruṣa, they are not puruṣa. They are prakṛti. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). They are superior prakṛti, but not puruṣa. But they are trying to be puruṣa. This is called illusion. If a woman dresses like a man and wants to act like man, that is artificial. That is not possible. Similarly, a living entity is not puruṣa; he is prakṛti. But because he wanted to enjoy this material world, nature has given him a dress like a puruṣa, and he is falsely trying to enjoy another prakṛti.
That is our propagation. We are propagating this message, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that "You take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Don't take knowledge from the rascals and fools. Then you will be misled. That is our propaganda. So why not take this opportunity?
Our business is not very difficult. Our business is very easy because we are not manufacturing knowledge like the rascals. "I think." What you are, you are thinking like this? You are rascal number one, and you are thinking? What is the meaning of your thinking? We reject immediately. "I think." "It is my opinion." This is going on. Big, big scientists, big, big philosophers. We don't accept. We must see whether he has received knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. And one who receives knowledge from Kṛṣṇa...
Just like at the present moment we see that Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, they are talking. Arjuna is direct disciple of Kṛṣṇa. So if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it was understood by Arjuna, then you get the right knowledge. And if you take the knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā explained by some so-called scholar and politician, then it is rascaldom only. It has no meaning. It has no meaning.
That is the process. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood. Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa is answering, you take it. Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). These are all statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So our only request is that if you want knowledge as it is inquired by Arjuna, you take it from Kṛṣṇa or one who has accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, the original. Then your knowledge is perfect. Otherwise you are cheated. You will not get the right knowledge. It is not possible. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).
Just like somebody goes to Haridwar, Vṛndāvana. They finish their tīrtha, going, taking so much trouble. Just like in Calcutta there is Ganges, but people will go to Haridwar for taking bath in the Ganges there. Why it is prescribed? Not for the Ganges. The Ganges is there already in Calcutta. But if you go to a holy place, you'll find saintly person. That is required. But if you simply go to the holy places and take bath in the water and finish your business... No. That is not recommended. Tīrtha, going to tīrtha means to find out a learned saintly person and take knowledge from him. That is tīrtha.
Therefore it is said, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu. Those who are expert in giving knowledge, we should associate. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-samvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanaḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). If we associate with saintly persons and hear from them Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literatures, then hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanaḥ kathāḥ, it becomes appealing to the heart, hṛt, and pleasing to the ear. Hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanaḥ kathāḥ taj-joṣaṇād. And if you bring them into practical purposes, apply in your life, then śraddhā bhaktir ratir anukramiṣyati. Then gradually you'll become faithful to the Supreme. Śraddhā bhaktir. You'll develop your natural instincts of devotional service. Śraddhā bhaktir ratir, attachment. Anukramiṣyati, one after another. This is the process.
So in the sun planet also, there are living entities, cities, just like here. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can say, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Kṛṣṇa is telling lie, that "I spoke this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god?" Now, according to our calculation nobody can go to the sun planet, and where is the scope of speaking there, and to whom speaking? But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham (BG 4.1), "I said," avyayam, "imperishable knowledge." Vivasvān manave prāha. So from this version we can understand, in the sun planet there are living entities, and the chief man, or chief demigod, is the sun-god, whose name is Vivasvān. So his body must be fiery; otherwise how he can live there? And the inhabitants there also. So we are thinking from here that nobody can live there, but that's not the fact. We are calculating via our own experience. Therefore we cannot have perfect knowledge by speculating our experience. It is not possible. We must go to a person whose experience is beyond our experience. That is called guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru means heavy. If guru is as good as I am, then what is the use of taking knowledge from him? Guru must be heavier.
So good qualities can be attained automatically when you work on spiritual platform. But if you work on material platform, means the gross body and the mind, then good qualities cannot be attained. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Therefore we find that educated persons, so-called educated... They are not educated because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, the so-called educated persons are bereft of real knowledge, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they have taken the position of becoming an atheist, no faith in God. They are asura. So any asura, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ... He may be MA, PhD, from academic career, but his real knowledge is taken away. Therefore he is atheist. Actual knowledge is to know God. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is explaining what is knowledge, jñeyam. Because as soon as you become actually wise, then you become liberated. But if you are not liberated, that means your knowledge is imperfect. Your knowledge is imperfect.
We are one with Kṛṣṇa in the sense by quality. As Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda, eternal life, blissful life, knowledge, full of knowledge, we are also like that in minute quantity, not like Kṛṣṇa. But there is the same quality. But now we are covered by this material energy. That Kṛṣṇa is never covered. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourselves although the quality is the same.
But we are prone to be covered. But Kṛṣṇa is not prone to be covered. Otherwise, why should we take lessons from Kṛṣṇa? If He's also like one of us, then what is the use of taking knowledge from Him? There is no use. But these rascals, they think that Kṛṣṇa is like us. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa, by His causeless mercy comes down to teach you how to take you back to home, back to Godhead, rascals think that "Kṛṣṇa is like us." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Therefore Kṛṣṇa says "All these lessons, instructions, can be assimilated, understood, by My devotee," mad-bhakta etad vijñāya (BG 13.19). "And therefore they are eligible to get back his original consciousness." Mad-bhāvāyopapadyate. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
That is the special advantage of human life. The dogs and the cat, they cannot be cured. They cannot be given the knowledge. Because you are human being, you are together here to get this knowledge. The cats and dogs, they cannot come. They cannot take this knowledge. So we have got the advantage of getting this knowledge in this life, and again, if we go back to the cats' and dogs' knowledge, then what is the benefit of getting this body? So this civilization, this dog civilization, is so spread all over the world that it is very, very difficult to cure it. We are making little attempt, but the ignorance is so deep, the disease is so acute, it is very, very difficult. But actually the disease is there.
Then? There is no need. Why should I bother my head for meeting the demigods? We have no business. We know the supreme, and the supreme knows what I want. So I haven't got to ask even the supreme that "This thing I want." No, there is no need. He knows. He will supply because I am engaged in His business. What is our business? Why we are bothering so much in this old age? The only business is that people may know Kṛṣṇa, the supreme controller. That is our business. We have no other business. We don't want anything, either from Kṛṣṇa or from demigod or anyone. Our only business is as advised by Caitanya Mahā..., yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). This is our business. We are carrying this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we are trying to educate people that "Here is real knowledge. Take it." This is our business. That means Kṛṣṇa is the supreme. Īśvaraḥ param... That is our only business. That is our only business, that people may know that Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord, that's all. We have no other business.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Some of the foolish scholars, they say that Kṛṣṇa was a, I mean to say, powerful, what is called? Aborigine. And the Kṛṣṇa worshipers have taken Him because He was very powerful. Kṛṣṇa is always powerful. But they have misinterpreted in this way. Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the Vedas. Just like these books, Brahma-saṁhitā. Brahma-saṁhitā is only description of Kṛṣṇa, and this book was composed by Lord Brahmā. Nobody knows how many millions of years ago this book was composed, but we understand that it was composed by Brahmā on the authority of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Our process is to take knowledge from the authority. We don't bother whether Brahma-saṁhitā was actually written by Brahmā or not. The so-called scholars and anthropologists and... What is called? Archaeologists, they may go on talking, but we have got a very nice process, to receive knowledge through paramparā system, Vedic succession, disciplic succession.
The cause of all causes. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Vedānta-sūtra says, "The Absolute Truth is that which is the origin, original cause." Original cause. The scientists, they are trying to find out the original cause of creation, but they are creating their own imagination. "There was a chunk, and it burst out, and then planets came out." Like that. (laughter) And wherefrom this chunk came, you nonsense? So this is going on.
So if you actually want knowledge, then you have to take knowledge by this disciplic succession, because you cannot speculate. By speculation, you can never arrive to the Absolute Truth. That is not possible.
Therefore we should accept knowledge from such person who is beyond these four defects of conditional life. What is that? Illusion, mistake, cheating, and imperfectness. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that proof. As I told you, that 2,500 years ago, or 5,000 years ago Vyāsadeva wrote about Lord Buddha's appearance. Still, there is appearance of Kalki from this time, henceforward, after 400,000's of years Kalki will appear. And his name, his father's name, the place where he will appear, that is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. That means tri-kāla-jña. Mahā-muni, he is liberated. He is incarnation of God. He knows past, present, future, and everything. That knowledge is perfect. One who knows past, present, and future perfectly, we should take knowledge from him. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we don't accept any knowledge from a person who is defective in so many ways. And what is the value of such knowledge? He is defective.
One who has seen the Absolute Truth, or one who has known the Absolute Truth, go there and take knowledge by surrendering. Praṇipātena. Praṇipāta means surrendering. Paripraśnena. Don't make question, waste his time. After you surrender, after you render service, then make question. Otherwise, there is no need of question. Don't waste your time, don't waste his time. An outsider has no right to put any question because he is not surrendered. And a spiritual master is not obliged to answer anyone except to his disciple. This is the Vedic way. Don't waste time for unnecessary questions and answers. But we have to do something sometimes. But that is not the way, unless one surrenders fully, praṇipātena, and renders service. Service means whatever the spiritual master wants, "You do this," you must do it, just like a menial servant. Nīcavat. Nīcavat.
We say, "Can you show me God?" But our eyes are so long perfect as long the light is. It is conditional. Therefore every sense now we are possessing, they are not perfect. So we acquire knowledge by using our different senses. Therefore, because they are imperfect, whatever knowledge we gather by speculation, that is imperfect. So if we take knowledge from such personalities who are liberated, then that knowledge is perfect. This is the process of acquiring knowledge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement—that we receive knowledge from the perfect person. Now, here it is said that because it is given by the perfect person Vyāsadeva, we should take knowledge from this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the proof is that we have now become Godless, we have no information of God, but if you read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then immediately you will realize God. Just like you can see in reality that these boys, these girls who have joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, because they are reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, they are now gradually realizing what is God and what is his relationship with God. So unless we realize God and our position, and we become lover of God, there is no question of peace in the mind. Therefore it is recommended here that if you want real peace in the mind, try to understand what is God, what is your relationship with God, and act accordingly. You will be immediately peaceful. As soon as you become peaceful, your life is successful. Thank you very much.
They do not know that there is escape. They think this is all. This is their education. They have no knowledge. Although they are suffering in every step, they are making plan in their own way within this material world. Just like the UNESCO and so many others, all nation attempts are there. They are planning within this... That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as carvita-carvaṇānām. Carvita means chewing the chewed. They see that our previous leaders, they also did like this; it was not successful. Still they are going on in different way. That is not the way. Actually, if you are really anxious to become free from the conditional life, then you have to take to adhyātma-śāstra. You have to take knowledge from spiritual sources. Go on.
Abhijñe, one who knows. (indistinct) we should approach person who knows things very well, abhijñaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is abhijñaḥ, svarat. So similarly Kṛṣṇa's representative is also abhijñaḥ, naturally. If one associates with Kṛṣṇa, if one talks with Kṛṣṇa, he must be very abhijñaḥ, very learned, because he takes lessons from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's knowledge is perfect, therefore, because he takes knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, his knowledge is also perfect. Abhijñaḥ. And Kṛṣṇa talks. It is not that it is fictitious, no. Kṛṣṇa—I have already said—that Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart and He talks with the bona fide person. Just like a big man, he talks with some bona fide person, he doesn't waste his time talking with nonsense. He talks, that's a fact, but he does not talk with nonsense, he talks with the bona fide representative.
Because such knowledge is wanting all over the world. The Western countries, they might have advanced in material technology, technical knowledge, but they have no knowledge about the science of God. That is lacking. So the East and West, they should cooperate. They cooperate. You have got some knowledge; I take advantage of it. I have got some knowledge; you take advantage of it. This is cooperation. This is cooperation. So especially now, people all over the world, they are trying to imitate the Western type of civilization. That is not bad. Do it. But you also do something so that Westerners may also take your knowledge. That is cooperation. So why you are silent in that point? Therefore, because Indians or Indian government has failed to do this duty, India is known as beggar country all over the world. I am traveling. "Oh, you are from India? It is very poverty-stricken country." This is the designation of India. Actually it is so. In comparison to Western country, India is very poor, very poor.
Āsuri-bhāva, āsuri-bhāva means simply sense gratification. That is āsuri-bhāva. There is no other ambition. So practically, modern society is going on on the āsuri-bhāva. They have rejected God consciousness, and they're simply interested in sense gratification. Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Therefore, in spite of all educational advancement... They're very much proud of having big, big degrees, but Bhagavad-gītā says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Māyā has taken their knowledge, taken away. They have been stolen, because they have no real knowledge. Real knowledge is how to get freedom from repetition of birth and death. They do not believe in the next life. They think simply... Big, big professors, I have talked, especially in Russia. They think that "So long this body is there, you enjoy sense gratification to the utmost," the Cārvāka theory. This was also cultured long ago in India.
So a layman can put up his own theory in so many ways. Then what shall be the conclusion? The conclusion should be to take authoritative knowledge from authorities—one who is beyond the four defects of common man; one who does not make any mistake. One who is not illusioned, one who does not cheat, and one whose senses are perfect. We are devoid of all these qualifications. We commit mistakes; we are illusioned; we cheat; and at the same time, our senses are imperfect. So how we can give by speculation perfect knowledge? That is not possible. Therefore, our principle, Vedic principle, is to receive knowledge from the perfect. So-called scientists, so-called philosophers... Because basically they're imperfect, how they can give you perfect? They can speak something, "Perhaps it it like that," "Maybe like that," "Perhaps it was like that." All their theories are like that. But actual fact is different. Actual fact we get from the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, that dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
That is a great science one has to learn: how the transformation of the body takes place, how our attachment acts in that way. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke (BG 8.6). This is a great science. Unfortunately, there is no educational system. Neither do they know the process of transmigration of the soul. So everyone is in ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance. Neither they're interested to take knowledge from the Vedic scripture. Everything is described there. Just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is the end of knowledge. Vidyā-bhāgavatāvadhi. If one wants to be educated, he has to come to the limit of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and all the sublime informations are there.
So vāsudeva-paraṁ jñānam. All scientific research should be to know Vāsudeva. In Boston I was invited in the Massachusetts Technological Institute? Yes. So I, first of all I questioned the students that "You have got technological department. So where is the technology where we can understand the difference between a dead man and a living man? What is the thing is lost that a body's called dead body? What is that technology." So I talked on this point. The students appreciated very much. Actually, there is no technology why a man is dead. What is the machine, what is the component part of the machine is missing? You can replace it. But where is that technology? There is no technology. Because there is no knowledge with reference to Vāsudeva. Simply superficial. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They do not know what is the purpose of knowledge. They're taking interest, taking care of this bahir-artha, external things. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is knowledge, svārtha-gatim, to approach Vāsudeva, Viṣṇu. But without that knowledge, they are simply taking outward. Just like Darwin's theory. He has no knowledge. He's simply studying this body. That's all.
But here we find it quite reasonable. Because everything is, is from the person. Jagṛhe pauruṣaṁ rūpam. Rūpam, form. It is not from imperson. Jagṛhe pauruṣaṁ rūpam. So we don't theorize. We accept the statement of the Vedas. That is our process of knowledge. Eh? Descending process. We take knowledge from the authority. Of course, the scientists also say they take from authority, but originally, as explained by our Hayagrīva Prabhu, it does not appear that the knowledge was taken from authority. It is theory. Theory, one can put theory of his own, and there are so many theories. But we don't accept theories. We want solid fact.
The solid fact is the Lord created. In the Bible also it is said that God said, "Let there be creation." So it is from the person. Here also, we find the creation begins from the person. In the Vedas it is said, sa aikṣata. Sa asṛjata. Aikṣata, "By the glance, He looked over, God looked over, and He created." The reference is to the person. We also find from our experience that whenever there is something manufacturing, or creation, we do not find automatically some matter comes into being. We don't, we haven't such experience. Whenever there is anything manufactured or created, there is a person behind it.
We are not seeking after a cheap God. Real God. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.
So we are not so fool that... Why we shall make research? Everything is there. So we are confident. We know what is going to happen. It is not astrology. It is... Everything is there in the Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, full knowledge. You take advantage of it and become learned.
Thank you. (end)
o according to the time, circumstances, men, the different scriptures are there. The ultimate aim of scripture is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But everything is not explained because the people are unable to understand. Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are making movement, but not that everyone is understanding. Those who are very intelligent, or those who are, whose background is pious, they can understand. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are miscreants, mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind; and māyayā apahṛta-jñāna, and knowledge is taken away by māyā—such person never submit to Kṛṣṇa. But who submits? Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna Those who are pious, out of them, four classes of men, ārto arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ. Ārta means distressed, and arthārthī means need of money, jñānī means man of knowledge, wise man, and jijñāsu, inquisitive.
So thing is that we have to take knowledge from the perfect. Then, even it is very difficult, but the knowledge is there. Even it is very difficult. Just like we are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. By our own effort, by the plane of mind and plane of air, we cannot reach where is Kṛṣṇaloka. But Kṛṣṇa says that mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: (BG 9.25) "Those who are My devotees, they can reach to My planet." So at least, we know that Kṛṣṇa has got a planet, and if we take to devotional service, then we can go. Then why not try? There is no loss, but if there is such gain that we can go to Kṛṣṇaloka, so why not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, simply chanting and dancing and taking prasādam? Is it very difficult job? The authority's Kṛṣṇa. It is confirmed by Vyāsadeva. It is confirmed by Nārada. It is confirmed...
So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is meant for persons who want to finish this life of anartha, meaningless life. For them is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vyāsadeva has given us. We should study very carefully, and we have tried to give each and every word's meaning and the translation and the purport consulting all the big, big ācāryas. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is following the footsteps of the ācārya, he knows. He knows everything. So that is explained everywhere. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), by the ācāryas. We don't create any meaning. Ācāryavān. One has to accept a bona fide spiritual master and take knowledge from him. Vidvān. Vidvān means who is following vidvān. I have given this example many times, that I may be a fool, but if I have learned from a person that this is called microphone... So a child, if he says, "This is microphone," that is correct. Because the child is fool, when he says "This is microphone," that is not foolish, because he has heard it from the authorities, from his father or from his teacher, that "This is called microphone." And if he says correctly that "This is microphone," that statement is correct, although he may be a child, a fool. Similarly, ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Anyone who is following ācārya, whatever he says it is correct. Because he does not manufacture. He says what he has heard from the ācāryas exactly like the child, what he has heard from his father, from the superior, he speaks.
So Vyāsadeva, he is giving us this knowledge. Vidvān lokasyājānataḥ. The whole population, the total number of the living entities—either he is Brahmā or a small—proportionately, they are all in ignorance. Otherwise why Brahmā required Vedic knowledge? It is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavaye, Brahmā, he is svayambhū. He's so great that he's directly born from Nārāyaṇa, svayambhū, not through any material mother. Just imagine how he is great. And Brahmā is great, everyone knows. So he had to take knowledge also. Otherwise, why it is said tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye? Even though he's the most learned, ādi-kavaye, he had to take knowledge. So you can say "He is the first creature, there was nobody there. How he took knowledge? Who gave him knowledge?" The answer is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that Vāsudeva gave him. "Where is Vāsudeva? There was nothing." No. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Vāsudeva means who stays everywhere. Vasati sarvatra. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vāsudeva is there. So Brahmā was, although there was nobody else except Brahmā, he was in the darkness. Still, Vāsudeva was there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61). So He gave the knowledge. Tene brahma. Brahma means Vedic knowledge.
So vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Vāsudeva is everywhere, and He is ready to help us, and if we become sincere to take knowledge from Vāsudeva... Even you are in the wilderness, anywhere you are, you are with Vāsudeva. You are not alone.
So these love affairs between young girls and young boy, is there in Brahman. That is the dealing of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. So that dealing is pervertedly reflected within this material world. It is not the same thing. It is different. But those who are not in the knowledge, they take it that the dealings... Idam Viṣṇu and the vraja-vadhū... It is so nice that actually if one hears about the dealings of the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes so elevated in devotion that he forgets the lusty dealings between man and woman. That is the result. It is stated in the Bhāgavatam, apahinoti, bhaktiṁ pratilabhya apahinoti kāmam.. If one is eligible to hear the dealings of gopīs and Kṛṣṇa, the result will be he'll forget the lusty desires of this material world. Therefore it is not for all. These dealings of gopīs and Kṛṣṇa is meant for the liberated person. They can hear, not the ordinary persons. Therefore this kṛṣṇa-līlā is given in the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So don't jump over. First of all you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, Acyuta. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). To understand Kṛṣṇa, not only... The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins when one is actually Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins. So don't jump over the kṛṣṇa-līlā or jump over Rādhā-kuṇḍa unless you are a liberated person. This is the instruction. Acyuta. You must be also acyuta—not falling down from the standard of pure devotional service. Acyuta-gotra.
So this is the Supreme Personality's omnipotency. He does not require the help of another woman to beget child. Even Brahmā, he has given birth to so many children not through woman but from his different parts of the body. So this we cannot conceive, because we are materially impeded. We cannot understand this is possible. So possibility and impossibility does not depend on our understanding. We have to take knowledge from the authority. Here, in the Vedic literature, we understand that Brahmā was born directly from the father. So we have to accept it. That is called Vedic knowledge. You cannot argue. That is possible. That is omnipotency. All potencies are there.
Just like our Svarūpa Dāmodara inquired, that "If I give you the ingredients to produce life, will you be able to produce life?" He questioned one scientist. He said, "That I do not know." Imperfect knowledge. If you do not know, then your knowledge is imperfect. Why you have become teacher? That is cheating. When you have got imperfect knowledge, why you take the position of the teacher? That should, you should not have done that. Therefore our position, to become perfect, is to take lesson from the perfect. Kṛṣṇa is the perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we take the knowledge from the perfect. Therefore this understanding, that soul is eternal, that is perfect.
How they will understand? Because they are mūḍhas, narādhama. Narādhama means this life, human life, is an opportunity to understand how things are going on. But they do not take advantage. Narādhama, lowest of the mankind. Then you go to the learned, learned, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, the so-called learned B.A.C., D.H.C., P.H.C., what is their learning? Simply the same thing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna: How to eat, how to sleep. Their learning, their education, is meant for how to eat, how to sleep. That's all. So that is also dog's business. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Real knowledge is, education is, how things are going on within this nature. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So they are not interested in these things. Education means "How to get one service so that I can get salary and I may live very comfortably and my wife, my children..." The same thing, dog's business. Dog is also interested only for eating, for having sex with another female dog, and get every six months half a dozen kitties(?). Like that. This is not... Therefore, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Even they are so-called educated, their real knowledge is taken away. Real knowledge is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, athāto brahma jijñāsā. So in this way we are going on.
They too do not accept knowledge from the authority. They manufacture. How you can manufacture? You are a fool, so whatever you manufacture, so-called knowledge, that is also foolish. How can we depend on your foolish knowledge? Abodha-jāta. Everyone is fool. He cannot manufacture. He has to learn to take knowledge from a person who knows. The he's perfect. That is our system. We are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. We are taking knowledge is perfect. We are taking authority. As we are, we are defective. Our position is sometimes we do mistake—"two plus two equals five." But it is not fact. So two plus two must be four. But if we make "five" or "three," that means the whole background becomes wrong. That is... we are liable to do that mistake. And illusion. Illusion means two plus two equal to four; I have written "five," but I am seeing it is all right. I'm seeing it is all right: "two." Therefore one should not correct himself. Another person should take the editorial correction work, because the man who has written he sees that it is right. This is called illusion.
Vedānta. Vedānta philosophy. So Vedānta philosophy gives you direction that what is the object of knowledge. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now object of knowledge is to understand the Supreme, the origin of everything." That is object of knowledge, philosophy. Philosophy means science, anything. Science also trying, "What is the original cause of this creation? What is the original cause of life?" But because andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), the so-called philosophers, scientists, they have been taught by another unscientist, not scientist, so he is also not scientist, not philosopher, because he has been taught by another andha. Just like one blind man leads other blind man. So what he will get, knowledge? So therefore, according to Vedic civilization, it is enjoined, it is ordered, that "If you want to take knowledge," tad-vijñānārtham, "to understand the complete science," tad-vijñānārtham, "the spirit," sa gurum eva abhigacchet, "oḥ, you must approach a bona fide guru." Otherwise there is no knowledge. That is not knowledge.
So actually, everything is existing. We have to simply take the knowledge. The modern method is ascending process. The knowledge is there, but still, they are trying to understand it by āroha-panthā, ascending process. It is called inductive knowledge. Inductive knowledge means that... Suppose a man is mortal. So the so-called scientists, they are trying to discover the law, why man is mortal. They are studying, "This man is mortal, this man is mortal, this man is mortal. Therefore it is concluded that all men are mortal. Nobody is immortal." But another man will argue that "You have not studied all the human society. How you can conclude? Therefore we must study." So this study will go on for life after life. They will never come to a person who is immortal. But they will protest that "We cannot accept." But our process is deductive. We say that man is mortal, first of all. Therefore John is a man. He is also mortal. This is deductive process. First of all we accept, man is mortal. The inductive process is that "Why shall I accept man is mortal? I may not have seen a person who is immortal." So that argument can be given.
So that is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). Abhijñaḥ. This word is used. Abhijñaḥ means cognizant. Then if He is the origin of everything, how He got all knowledge perfectly? Therefore the next word is sva-rāṭ: He is fully independent. He doesn't require to take knowledge from anyone else. Otherwise how He can be origin? Sva-rāṭ. Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. That origin is so perfect, and still, sūrayaḥ, many scholars, many scientists, philosophers, they are also bewildered, that "How He can be a person?" Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. These things are described.
Unless there is sunlight, you cannot see. So how can you say that "Our seeing is absolute"? It is relative. So whatever knowledge we are getting, they're all relative knowledge. Relative means according to my power I am studying, "This is this. This is this." But they are all wrong. You do not know what is actually the position. Therefore the conclusion is that we have to take knowledge from the perfect. Śāstra-cakṣusā. Your eyes should be... Actually we are doing that. Now, directly we are seeing the sun. We see just like the disk. But when you go through scientific books, geographic and other authorit..., astronomy, they, "No, the sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet." So actually we are understanding about the sun not by our direct eyes but through the authoritative knowledge, through the śāstra, through the books.
So how this nonsense theory can be accepted? According to our Vedic information, from the very beginning the one person, one living creature, was Brahmā, the most intelligent person. Not that he developed from monkey. This nonsense theory killed the human civilization. The intelligence is coming from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And the most intelligent person is receiving that, Brahmā. And then he is distributing this knowledge. So knowledge has not developed with the development of the brain of the living entities. That is a wrong theory. Knowledge is already there. And the most intelligent person received it, and it is being distributed still. Therefore Vedic knowledge is considered to be the perfect. And if we take knowledge from the Vedas, then our knowledge is perfect. Now here is the knowledge. What is the purport?
So we have got this test tube of Bhagavad-gītā. What is that? Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Always engaged in sinful activities. Therefore he does not know. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. And what other qualification? Mūḍha, ass, rascal. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. Why lowest? Now, because the human life is meant for understanding God and he does not know. Therefore he is lowest of the mankind, narādhama. Why it is so? There are so many university degrees-M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C., and so on, so on, delete.(?) Still, he does not know? Still, he's mūḍha? The Bhagavad-gītā says, "Yes." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: (BG 7.15) "The knowledge he has achieved, that has been taken away by māyā." He's superficially simply degree holder. His actual knowledge is taken away. So therefore māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why this has happened? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because he defies, "What is God? I am God. You are all God. Why you are searching God? There are so many Gods loitering in the street. Take care of them."
He never thought that Kṛṣṇa can kill even by nails. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti (Bs. 5.32). He can do everything. But he wanted to be cheap God, to surpass... But it could not be done. This is the asura. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. And the asuras... Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). They may think themselves as very advanced in knowledge, but they are rascal number one because their so-called knowledge, the effect of knowledge, is taken away by māyā. They are called Māyāvādīs. They are very much proud of their knowledge. But Kṛṣṇa says, "These rascals, these atheist class demons, their actual knowledge is taken away." Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He devised means that "Indirectly I shall be immortal. I shall not die in daytime. I shall not die in night. I shall not die in water. I shall not die in land. I shall not die in the sky. No animal can kill me. No demigod can kill me. No weapon can kill me." So on, so many... Brahmā says, "All right." But he never agreed to give him immortality. But he wanted to cheat Brahmā that "Indirectly, by the negative way, I have taken everything. So I am immortal." This is called mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). He does not know that Kṛṣṇa's intelligence is always, at least, one inch greater than him, anyone. (laughs)
This is the explanation of the last version of Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We have got so many obligations. As soon as we take birth—human being, not cats and dogs—we are immediately indebted to so many persons: devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām (SB 11.5.41). We are indebted to the demigods. The body, the material body, which we have got, it is running by the direction of the demigods. There are different demigods controlling different parts of the body. So that means as soon as we get a body, we become indebted to the demigods. Then, when we are educated, we take knowledge. Then we become indebted to the great sages, saintly persons, who have given us all the directions how to live comfortably, sinlessly. Then devarṣi-bhūta. Bhūta, ordinary, general living beings. Just like we are taking milk from the cows, service from the bull, from the horse, from the ass—even cats and dogs. So we are also indebted to them. Devarṣi-bhūta-āpta. Relatives. We get so many help from relatives. Bhūta-āpta. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇām. General public. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām (SB 11.5.41). And the forefathers. So a ṛṇī we are immediately. But if we renounce everything for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, then we are not ṛṇī, or indebted. That is the injunction of the śāstra.
You have to take knowledge from the tattva-darśī, one who has seen the truth. Otherwise, you'll be frustrated. Similarly religion. Religion you cannot manufacture: "This is our religion. This is this religion, that religion, that religion." So that is not religion. Religion is this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Mayy ananyena bhāvena bhaktim. This is religion. Anything else, that is cheating. That is not religion.
So if we want to save ourself-We do not know how to save. Gaḍurikā-pravāha. Gaḍurikā-pravāha-nyāya. There is a logic of gaḍurikā-pravāha. One man is doing something, and another man is following. Of course, if you follow a saj-jana, a devotee, that is very nice. But if you follow a rascal, then you also become rascal. But at the present moment the whole world is full of rascals, mūḍhāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ, narādhamāḥ. "Why do you call mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtinaḥ narādhamāḥ? There is so much advancement of education. There are so many universities, so many degrees." But Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: (BG 7.15) "Their so-called knowledge has no value because the essence of knowledge is taken away by the illusion." "Now why you say? They are educated. No, their knowledge has been taken away? Why? What is the reason?" The reason is āśuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ: "They have taken to the nonsense philosophy of godlessness." That's it. For this reason their so-called education, university education, degrees, are simply illusion of māyā.
Perfection means there should be no mistake, no illusion, no cheating, and no imperfections of the senses. That is perfection. And therefore it is said here, bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān is all-perfect. Therefore we should take knowledge from Bhagavān or one who speaks according to the version of Bhagavān. We should not hear anybody else. That is imperfect.
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on this principle. We are speaking not anything manufactured by us. That is not our business. Because how we can manufacture? We are defective. We are deficient, imperfect. What is the use of my philosophy? What is the use of my thinking? Generally they say, "I think," "In my opinion." He does not think that "I am a rascal. I have no value of my opinion." He thinks that he is something very big. No. Because our senses are imperfect, whatever knowledge we have gathered by our sense speculation, that is imperfect. That cannot be perfect. Therefore we have discussed already, tattva āmnāyam. We have to receive knowledge from disciplic succession, tattva. Then we will understand the truth. Tattvāmnāyam. This subject matter we have discussed already, āmnāyam, evaṁ paramparā, that we should not manufacture knowledge. We should take knowledge from the perfect. Just like here it is said, bhagavān uvāca. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, bhagavān uvāca. If we follow this āmnāya system, then we become guru.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said who is guru. He asked everyone to become guru. His mission is that people are suffering all over the world for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. That's a fact.
That is His mission. He is requesting every Indian, every Indian, because they have got the facility for understanding what is Bhagavad-gītā, what is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, what is Vedas. They have got this opportunity. Therefore He says, janma sārthaka kari': "You have taken your birth in India. You make your life successful by taking advantage of these scriptures and then assimilate the knowledge and preach all over the world." They are in darkness. That is being repeatedly said. But we are not taking advantage of. We are so misfortunate. We are misguided by the so-called leaders that we are neglecting this valuable literature which is spoken by Bhagavān. We are talking of some nonsense. That is our misfortune. So we have to take knowledge from Bhagavān and spread it all over the world. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So He says that "You become guru." He says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā: (CC Madhya 7.128) "By My order." Don't become a so-called guru, manufactured guru. "You become guru by following My instruction." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā.
So that is Vedic knowledge. You get the exact knowledge. Therefore Vedic knowledge is called apauruṣeya. It is not spoken by ordinary human being by speculation: "It may be," "Perhaps." No. It is not like that. That is Bhagavān. Whatever He'll say exact, that is Vedic knowledge. Therefore it is safer to take knowledge from Bhagavān, especially the knowledge of Bhagavān. Bhagavān is not so cheap thing. If you want to know Bhagavān... If you do not be so fool to accept another fool as Bhagavān, then you have to hear about Bhagavān about Bhagavān. That is the process. Therefore the Vedic instruction is, to get perfect knowledge, you have to approach a person who is guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And who's guru? Guru means representative of Bhagavān. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Guru... Because the real guru, he's representative of Kṛṣṇa, sākṣāt-hari.
So don't go to rascal. If you want real knowledge, take it from Bhagavān. bhagavān uvāca. Then your knowledge is perfect. That is our process. We, we have taken Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we are preaching. We don't preach anything else which Bhagavān does not say. Bhagavān says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām... (BG 18.65). We are canvassing, "My dear sir, you just become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You always think of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. We say, "You just think of Kṛṣṇa." The same thing. There is no change. We do not interpret any way, "This man-manāḥ means this, and mad-bhaktaḥ means that." No. We don't do that. We present as it is. Therefore if Kṛṣṇa sees that "One is presenting My message as I have given," then He is pleased. Therefore, it is said, kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He has become very dear because he does not, nonsensically, he does not nonsensically change the meaning, that "This meaning's that, this meaning's that."
That is called kalpa-vṛkṣa. We have no experience in this material world, but there is a tree. That is not in this material world, that is in the spiritual world. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). So we have to take knowledge from Vedic, Vedic scripture. Then the description of the spiritual world is there, what is that? Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu. They have got houses, they are made of touchstone. Here it is made of bricks and stone, ordinary stone. But there is another stone which is called touchstone. If you touch it with the iron, the iron becomes gold. That is called touchstone, pareṣapatha (?). So the spiritual world, all the houses are made of this touchstone. You can take the Tata iron factory and touch it there. (laughter) It will be very profitable. (laughter) Yes. Or go there and bring some touchstone as these moon exploiters. They go and they have brought some stone, and some sand. But if you go to Kṛṣṇaloka you can bring some touchstone and make the whole Tata iron factory gold. (laughter) These informations are there. If you have got capacity, then you will go and bring it.
So in this way, as Devahūti... Devahūti is the mother of Kapiladeva, but she is taken instruction from his (her) son. His (her) son is... Kapiladeva is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So it doesn't matter whether God appears as my son or guru or father. God is there always. So we have to take knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is perfect knowledge. Because He is the origin of everything. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. Ādi-puru... The original person. So if we take lessons from the original person, that is perfect knowledge. Otherwise it is imperfect knowledge. So that... Somebody was asking about the paramparā. So that paramparā is very necessary, to know the knowledge by the paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā is very important thing. Therefore, unless we take to the paramparā system, which is, in another word, it is called sampradāya... Sampradāya.
So anyway, if we require knowledge, factual knowledge, we must receive it directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is perfect knowledge. Therefore Devahūti is receiving knowledge. Although Kapiladeva is his (her) son, but because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he (she) is taking knowledge from Him. And if we take knowledge from Him also—everything is there in the book—then that is perfect knowledge. Therefore it is said, bhagavān uvāca. As Bhagavān is complete, pūrṇa, pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate—He is pūrṇa, sampūrṇa, complete—so that knowledge is perfect.
So Kapiladeva is giving knowledge, beginning how the creation, the material creation, is begun. He is beginning from that point of view. Pradhānaṁ prakṛtiṁ sad-asat and yat tat tri-guṇātmakam. This material world is tri-guṇamayī, tri-guṇātmakam, or tri-guṇamayī, the same thing. As Kṛṣṇa said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī, guṇamayī (BG 7.14). Guṇa. This material world, this prakṛti, is guṇamayī; there are three modes of material nature. So we are controlled by these tri-guṇamayī, and we have to become guṇātītam. As Kṛṣṇa advises to Arjuna, traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna: "You just try to become above the three guṇas." That is human life. Human life is not meant for remaining within the category of these three guṇas and struggle for existence. That is not human life. That is animal life.
So saguṇa, saguṇa Brahman, brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya, here it is said. Brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha etāvān eva saṅkhyātaḥ. The living entity is entrapped. This body is the combination of these twenty-five elements. So that is for the living entity, saguṇa Brahman. Saguṇa Brahman means living entity. But it is not for Kṛṣṇa. And again, sanniveśo mayā proktaḥ. So mayā proktaḥ means Bhagavān is speaking. Bhagavān is not saguṇa. Here Kapiladeva says, mayā proktaḥ: "I have described it." He knows everything. Mayā proktaḥ. We have to take knowledge from Bhagavān, not from any saguṇa Brahman. We have to take knowledge from nirguṇa Brahman. Nirguṇa Brahman is Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, Kapiladeva. Mayā proktaḥ. Yaḥ kālaḥ pañca-viṁśakaḥ. And now He gives another element, kāla, because everything is going on under the influence of kāla. The past, present, and future, the kāla, is eternal. Time is eternal, but we are creating our past and present and future according to our existence. The past, present, future of an ant is not the past, present of an elephant. The past present of our is not the past present of Brahmā. It is relative. This kāla is working relatively. Therefore this is called relative world. So this prime factor of relativity is kāla. That is the twenty-fifth element. And beyond that, there is the soul, there is the Supersoul, and above everything, Puruṣottama, the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.
This material world is blazing fire. Blazing fire means the forest fire. The forest fire... The example is very typical, because nobody goes to set fire in the forest, neither it is possible to extinguish the fire in the forest by your so many counteractive methods. This is very appropriate example. Similarly, in the material existence nobody wants any trouble, but automatically the trouble comes. Everyone has got experience: everyone is trying for happiness—nobody wants for distress—but distress comes here. You cannot stop it. Therefore those who are advanced in knowledge, they take it for granted that "I do not want distress. So the distress cannot be checked. It comes upon me. Then why shall I try for happiness? It will also come." This is very right conclusion. If without my endeavor distress comes upon me, so there are two things, distress and happiness, two counterparts. So if distress can come upon me without any endeavor, so the happiness also will come without any endeavor because this is another counterpart. So why shall I waste my time for this material distress and happiness?
So mahātmā's business is: ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate. A mahātmā has no other business than devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, always hearing about the Supreme Lord, always glorifying the Supreme Lord, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But that we do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). That we do not know. And because people, they do not know it, therefore this mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is there, just to make people enlightened, "Know it now. Know it now. In the other previous lives, cats, dogs, trees, and fishes and insects and all so many other—there are eight million, four hundred...—you could not know it. Now you have got this human form of body. Take advantage of this knowledge. Take advantage of the information given in the Vedic literature." Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. "You have got so much advantages. Now learn them. And you have got developed consciousness, human being. Try to understand them. And then your life will be successful."
They are vijñāna-sahitam. Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitam. Yaj jñātvā mokṣyase aśubhāt, jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ pravakṣyāmy anasūyave, yaj jñātvā mokṣyase aśubhāt. This is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ (BG 7.2). Pravakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ, yaj jñātvā mokṣyase aśubhāt. That aśubha, inauspicious, we do not understand. We have taken inauspicious thing as auspicious. This is called māyā. We accept something māyā, or illusion, or vivarta. We accept something for something. The example is given: there is a rope, and due to my ignorance or insufficient knowledge, I take it as a snake. This is my insufficient knowledge. The snake is fact, and the rope is fact. But when we take the rope as snake, that is ignorance, or the snake as rope, that is ignorance. The Māyāvādī philosopher says that "We are accepting snake..., er, rope as a snake. But there is no snake." But we, Vaiṣṇava philosopher, we say, "No, there is snake, and there is rope. But when we accept the rope as snake, that is māyā." Similarly, there is spiritual world and there is material world. But when we accept the material world as everything, that is māyā. That is illusion.
Therefore our knowledge is very, very limited, poor. Poor fund of knowledge, and still we are proud. Sapari phora-phorayate.(?) Just like a small fish, you have seen in the pond. Little water, say one feet—(makes sound) "phor, phor, phor, phor." But the big fishes, they are in the deep in the water, big fish. So we take knowledge from the big fish, not from the small fish, "phor, phor, phor, phor." So phora-phorayate(?), this kind of knowledge will not satisfy us. We take from the big fish, one who knows. Then who knows? Kṛṣṇa knows. And one who knows from Kṛṣṇa, he knows. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is ācāryavān, who has taken shelter of ācārya, he knows. Why? Because ācārya receives knowledge from Kṛṣṇa and he distributes knowledge to his disciple. That is perfect knowledge. Ācāryavān puruṣaḥ. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). These are the instruction.
So at least one life try to going back to that place. Then your whole problem will be solved. Here we are paying so much electricity bill, and if there is no sun, we are rotten place. So why do you suffer in this way? Come here. There is no need of sun; there is no need of electricity. And the prime gain is that if you can go there, there is no need of coming back again. So those who have no information of the spiritual world, they stick to this material world as everything is here. But those who have got knowledge, mahātmā, whose ātmā is very great, who can understand the greatness of God and His great knowledge and take knowledge from Him, he is perfect. So here is the knowledge. Everything is there. He is giving... We... Not that back to home, back to Godhead, is our imagination. No, not imagination. Just like if somebody gives you information of America, that "America is very rich city. There are so many big, big bridges and road and motor cars." So naturally you become inclined: "Why not see once America, how it is?" So similarly, here is the information about the spiritual world, and why don't you try to go back to home, back to Godhead?
There are innumerable universes. This is only one universe. So He must have full knowledge how He is maintaining this material world. Therefore He is called abhijña. He is not dull-headed. He has got full knowledge. That is God, omniscient. He has got full knowledge. We may not have because we are very tiny. A child may not have knowledge, but the father knows everything. Similarly, He is the supreme father. He knows everything. He has got full knowledge. Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu. There are things, indirect and direct. In both ways He is abhijña; He is well aware, everything. Then the next question is svarāṭ. Svarāṭ. Because we are thinking in our own way of life, that "If God has got so much knowledge, wherefrom He got it?" Because we have got experience that whenever we require knowledge we go to a superior person and take knowledge from him—"Then wherefrom God has got so much knowledge?" Therefore the answer is svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means He is fully independent. He is not dependent for knowledge to anyone else. So these things are there. We have to study very nicely.
It is not civilization. If we think over these two lines, then we can find out that our modern civilization... It was formerly also the same, but not so extensively. At the present moment, in this age of Kali, the hog civilization is spread very widely. Therefore this instruction is very important. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Human life means very peaceful life, without any trouble. That is Vedic civilization. These books written by Vyāsadeva, he was writing these books, such exalted knowledge, in Hardwar, in a secluded place, very peacefully situated. And that knowledge was taken by the kṣatriyas, and they were distributing. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Vedic knowledge was first of all taken up by the kṣatriyas. Brāhmaṇas, they used to cultivate knowledge and they used to advise the kṣatriyas, rulers, and they took it and they distributed to the general mass of people for the elevation of the spiritual platform. This is civilization.
Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you can blindly classify him in four groups: duṣkṛtina, means most sinful; mūḍhāḥ—rascals; narādhamāḥ—lowest of the mankind. "No, he is M.A., Ph.D." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "What is the fault?" Because he does not accept Kṛṣṇa—finish. So we are also like other fools and rascals, but we accept this Kṛṣṇa's word as final, that's all. Kṛṣṇa says that these are Those who have not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are four classes, means most sinful, and rascal, lowest of the mankind, and although he has got university degrees, his knowledge is taken away by māyā. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This is āsuriṁ bhāvam. And there are two classes of men—the āsura and the deva. So deva means who accepts the authority of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is deva. Devata. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Even those who are devotees of other demigods, they are also āsuras, what to speak of atheist. Even Just like Rāvaṇa. He was a great devotee of Lord Śiva—everyone knows—but he was called a rākṣasa. Rākṣasa and āsura, the same thing. Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was a great devotee of Lord Brahmā. He is also called rākṣasa.
So our process of knowledge—you should take from the supreme authority. Then we save time for research work. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We take perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. I may be imperfect. Just like child is imperfect, so I may be imperfect, you may be imperfect, but if you take the perfect knowledge from the supreme perfect, then your knowledge is perfect. That is the process. This is called avaroha-panthā, knowledge coming, deductive knowledge. So everything is there, and if you like to take advantage of this movement and make your life perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead, then fully utilize this center, our Melbourne center. Come here, read our books, and argue. Try to understand with your full knowledge, no blindly acceptance. There is reason. There is argument. There is philosophy. There is science. Everything is there. And if you accept that "Simply by chanting, I shall realize," that is also allowed. Both ways: if you accept this simple process, that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God," that is also fact, and if you think, "What is this nonsense, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" then you read books. Both ways we are prepared. Come and take advantage of this movement.
According to Vedic culture, the body is burned into ashes. So when the body is burned to ashes, who is coming again and paying him back? (laughter) "Don't think about it. Everything is finished." So this is the atheistic nonsense. But actually it is not. If you take real knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that is real knowledge. After destruction of this body, don't think that you are finished. You live, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This is the first instruction. If you want to enter into spiritual life, you must know that you, spirit soul, you are eternal. You don't die; you are not finished. That after the destruction of this body, you accept another body, tathā dehāntara prāptir. These are the versions in Bhagavad-gītā, authoritative. And dehāntara means another body. There is no guarantee what kind of body you get. That will depend on your work. You may get the body of a king or you may get the body of a hog, as you have done work in this life. This life is a preparation for the next life.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Only the fortunate persons..." There are many fortunate persons all over the world, and many unfortunate persons also. So those who are fortunate, they're taking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this ideal life, hopeful life, pleasant life, blissful life, life of knowledge. They're taking to it. But it is the duty of Vaiṣṇava to go door to door to make them fortunate. Although they are unfortunate, but you have to go door to door to make them fortunate. That is your duty.
So a Vaiṣṇava is thinking, mahā-bhāga, "How these people can be delivered from this hellish condition of life?" That was his inquiry. "Sir, you have described that on account of these sinful activities, he's put into this hellish condition of life or in hellish planetary system. Now what are the countermethods by which they can be saved?" This is the question. This question... Because he is Vaiṣṇava, he is thinking, "Oh, so many living entities are suffering. How they can be saved?" A Vaiṣṇava comes, God also comes and God's son or very confidential devotee also comes. Their only mission is how to save these sinful men who are suffering so much. That is their mission. They have no other mission. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Nṛsiṁha-deva met him, he said a very nice verse. I'll quote that verse.
So here the Bhāgavata-kathā, that is transcendental knowledge. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja has approached the right person, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Why? Because he is the disciple and son of Vyāsadeva. So this is paramparā. One should learn from the right person, that is perfect knowledge. We are sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because to receive perfect knowledge. If we change, if we become so rascal that "What has spoken in the Vedic literature, there is beyond, something," then we are rascal. There is no beyond. This is perfect knowledge. So how to take perfect knowledge? Tad viddhi. First of all you try to learn. Tad viddhi. How to learn? Where to learn? Praṇipātena, fully surrendered. If you find somebody that he is somebody important where you can surrender fully, from him... Tad viddhi praṇipāta... This is. Our process of Vedic knowledge is how to surrender, not that I hear and I reject it. That is not the way. That is another rascaldom. First of all find out the person where you can surrender.
So this is going on. Don't be misled. Īśa-tantrya, by the laws of nature, we are bound up tight, hands and legs. We are not independent. You cannot do anything independently. You are completely under the clutches of material nature. And behind the material nature is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take knowledge from Him, and then you become perfect. That is explained here, sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgi yair iha. Who will take instruction from Kṛṣṇa? Tad-guṇa-rāgi. When you understand that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. We have to take instruction from Him." Nobody is perfect except Kṛṣṇa. Or one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is perfect; one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is perfect. Just like a child. He does not know what it is, but if he takes instruction from his father or teacher that "This is microphone," so when he says, "This is microphone," this is perfect. He may be child, but because he has learned from his father or teacher, "This is microphone," and he says, "This is microphone. This is this," then it is perfect. So the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is perfect, and the teacher or guru who speaks the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfect. And if he manufacture his own ideas and becomes more than Kṛṣṇa, then he's a rascal number one. There is no benefit.
If you actually want śānti, peace, then you try to understand only three things. What is that? Sarva-loka-maheśvaram: Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of everything. Just like we ask every day, "Who is the proprietor of the sea?" They do not know. Theories. But Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the proprietor," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, "not only of this sea." This Pacific Ocean is only one, insignificant. There are millions of Pacific Ocean flying in the sky. So who is the proprietor? Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." You are not proprietor. There must be some proprietor. So who is that proprietor? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." You have to know it, whether Kṛṣṇa is not proprietor. He says, "I am proprietor," but if you are doubtful, prove that He is not proprietor. But that you cannot do. Or bring another person who can claim like that, that "I am the proprietor." Therefore you have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the proprietor. And it is accepted by all great personalities. Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, all the ācāryas, Nimbārka, then Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, and our worshipable Deity, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Everyone has accepted. So unless we are grand fool, we can't deny this. It is not possible. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). We have to take knowledge by the disciplic succession.
When Arjuna was asked to Kṛṣṇa that "How can I accept that You taught this philosophy to sun-god? Because You are my contemporary. We are born practically on the same date." So He replied, "Yes. Both you and Me, we took many, many births. But you have forgotten. I know everything." And that is God. That is God. Abhijñaḥ. God must be cognizant of everything. And I do not know everything, and still, I claim I am God and people accept. How rascal. The Bhāgavata explains that the Absolute Truth is cognizant of everything, abhijñaḥ. "So how His knowledge is so perfect?"—the next question, because we become cognizant by taking knowledge or accepting knowledge from spiritual master. But how he has become so cognizant? The answer is svarāṭ, fully independent. He hasn't got to learn... (break) But He is God without taking knowledge from anybody. That is real God.
So why should you deny that "Fire—no living entities"? You cannot live in the fire; you cannot live in the water. Does it mean others cannot? This is foolishness. This is foolish. And Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "I spoke this philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā, to sun-god." His name is also given, Vivasvān. So Vaivasvata Manu. So either Kṛṣṇa is talking lies... How Kṛṣṇa spoke unless he's a person, living there? Everything is there. We cannot conjecture from here that "Because I cannot live in such atmosphere, therefore others cannot live." No. There are different varieties of living entities, 8,400,000 varieties. How many you have seen? Therefore you have to take knowledge from the perfect source. Then we you can understand. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum eva abhigacchet. This is Vedic injunction. If you want to know perfectly everything, then you must go to the proper teacher. Then you will learn. But how you can imagine from here? A dwarf is trying to touch the moon. How it is possible? That is not possible.
Therefore we have to take the knowledge from the guru who knows things. Therefore guru is worshiped,
- ajñāna-timirāndhasya
- jñānāñjana-śalākayā
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
The politician or, what is called, leaders, andha, they will promise you that "You will be happy in this way. You give me vote, and I shall bring heaven for you, and let me become minister. That is... You simply wait, and as soon as I become a minister and president, I will give you such and such benefit." So you select Mr. Nixon, and again you become disappointed. Then we request, "Mr. Nixon, you get out." And we accept another fool. This is going on.
So God's arrangement is so nice that everything is going on nicely. There is brain behind it. Why there is sunshine, why there is moonshine, everything described. You'll read in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, moon is the cause of vegetation, and there is no vegetation, that's all. Moon is the cause of vegetation in all planets, and they say there is no vegetation, it is simply dust. So we have to believe it? And when you present actual fact, it is mysticism or mythology. Anyway, we are not concerned with their statement. Our process is to know things from the śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete kariya aikya. Our process is deductive, not inductive. We take knowledge, just like this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam written by Vyāsadeva under the instruction of his guru, spiritual master, Nārada. So Nārada advised him that "You have written so many books: Purāṇas, Vedas, Vedānta." Vyāsadeva said, "Still I am not feeling very satisfied." So Nārada Muni advised him that "You are not feeling satisfied because you have not described about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the defect. So now you have got mature experience. You describe simply about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa."
A child can understand, "Do you know God?" "No." "You are a demon." (laughter) Finished. Where is the difficulty? As soon as you say "I do not know God," you are a demon. Bās. First-class demon. "I am scientist." "You are rascal." "No, I have studied, I have got my degrees." "Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. (laughter) Rascal, you have studied so long, simply waste of time. Your real knowledge is taken away because you do not know God." That is described. We have got very simple test in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement how to distinguish between an intelligent man a rascal. As soon as we understand that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. Bās. There is no need of testing. Even though he's M.A., Ph.D, D.H.C. and so on, so on, still we shall call him a rascal. This is open challenge; it is not secret. How? Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said, tyaja durjana-saṁsargaṁ vidyayā 'pi alaṅkṛto san. He very nicely says that rascals and fools, must give up their company. Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam. "No, I have got many friends, they are university educated."
The example is given like this: Just like the cloud. Cloud takes water from the sea, and he pours it down, and again the water goes down to the sea. So all knowledge comes from Kṛṣṇa, but when Kṛṣṇa appears, He takes the same knowledge from through the guru. Just try to understand. The knowledge is just like the sea, full knowledge, but it distributes the water on the land. Again the water goes down. Similarly, anyone who becomes Kṛṣṇa's guru or Caitanya Mahāprabhu's guru, they take knowledge from him, but superficially Kṛṣṇa accepts guru. He has no guru. Svayambhū. Therefore it is called svayambhū. Svayambhū. Svayambhūr iti śuśruma. Kṛṣṇa has no cause. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). Anādir ādir govindaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvara (Bs. 5.1), the Supreme Lord, is Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, anādi. He has no source of knowledge. That is called svayambhū.
So therefore veda-praṇihito dharmaḥ. So how God is working, how His brush is moving, how the things are coming out so nicely, how much great brain He has got... Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat. Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no more good brain than Me." He says. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). The prakṛti, nature, is instrument. Nature is not brain. Just like nowadays you have got very complicated machine, computer. The computer machine is not brain; the man who is pushing the buttons, he has got the brain. So we have to learn like that. Therefore we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge directly in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if you read and accept it as it is without any foolishness, then you become perfectly in knowledge.
Thank you very much. (end)
Yesterday we ... The Yamadūtas said that iti śuśruma. Never said, "I have seen it." Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt svayaṁbhūr iti śuśruma: "We have heard it." Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣā... He never says, "I have seen it." No. Iti ṣuṣruma. So this is experience, real experience, real knowledge. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. Veda is directly Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa... You can see Nārāyaṇa. You can hear about Nārāyaṇa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Viṣṇu is Nārāyaṇa. This is the beginning of understanding Nārāyaṇa, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Never says, "By seeing, by touching, by licking up." No. You cannot see. That is not experience. Real experience is iti śuśruma. So if we take our knowledge that there is no witness what we did in our previous life, that is nonsense. Here are the so many witnesses. Iti śuśruma. Hear. You cannot say there is no witness. You hear from the Vedic literature how many witnesses are present there for all your activities and how they are becoming recorded minutely, and everything will be judged. Therefore the Yamarāja is there.
So we have to take knowledge from śāstra. And who will teach me śāstra? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Go to guru. Tad-vijñānārtham. Just like you go to some superior person to learn something. That is the process. Similarly, the same process... You have to go to a person who has also heard. Śuśruma. You go to that, not that person who says that "I suppose," "I believe," "Maybe." No. You go to the person who says, iti śuśruma: "We have heard it from authorities." You have to go to that person. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Who is guru? Śrotriyam: "Who has properly heard." Śrotriyam. And what is the result? Brahma-niṣṭham: by hearing, he is firmly convinced there is God. You have to go to such guru. lf you go to a fakir, what he will teach you? No. Fakir means one who talks much without any knowledge. He is called fakir.
The knowledge is given by Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa that "Here is the solution: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo janati tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9)." The problem is punar janma, repetition of birth, and if you want to stop it, then try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then you will be able to stop. As soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa... To understand Kṛṣṇa means even if you blindly accept, that is also beneficial. Kṛṣṇa says what He is, that He is the Supreme Lord. So you accept Him. That's all. Simply have this faith, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That will make you sufficiently advanced. But this is very difficult for the materialistic person. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: (BG 7.19) "After endeavoring for many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, jñānavān, "who is actually wise, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh: (BG 7.15) "Otherwise he remain a rascal and implicated in sinful activities, lowest of the mankind, knowledge is taken away." Na māṁ prapadyante: "He never surrenders to Kṛṣṇa."
There is regular principle. Not that by chance it has become yellow, chance it has become red. This is rascaldom. No. There is regular. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Everything is being done by the manifestation of energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Everywhere there is control of Kṛṣṇa. So don't think that in the flower some nice color has come without any supervision or control. Don't think. That is nonsense. Not by chance. It is under Kṛṣṇa's direction. He has got artistic sense. Not like us. He can dictate to show(?) the various varieties of living entities, all varieties, trees and so many things, there are varieties. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi: nine hundred thousand different forms of fishes, from big to small. There are whale fishes. There is another big fish; they can swallow up the whale fishes, so big, jala-hasti. They are within the ocean. How many we know? We are... The Nirviśeṣa-vādīs' philosophy is like that, that on the ocean we see it is simply water. No, that is not actual vision. You should take knowledge from the experience. What is that? Now within the ocean there are nine hundred thousand different forms of life. You rascal, you are thinking that there is nothing, nirviśeṣa.
So in this paramparā system, this knowledge has come to your country, America. You are intelligent. You are prosperous. So take this knowledge seriously and at least distribute this knowledge properly for the benefit of your people. Otherwise the world is in very, very precarious condition, and although the human form of life is obtained for the success of life, they are being kept purposefully all ignorantly in darkness. So, na veda pūrvam aparaṁ naṣṭa-janma-smṛtis tathā. Just like Bharata Mahārāja, he was a great devotee, but somehow or other, he was very much attached to one, a small deer. He had to accept the body of a deer. But he did not forget about his last birth. That is special prerogative for advanced devotees. Nature's law is that at the time of death, what you think, you get the body. That is nature's law.
They have been described as mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. All these men are engaged in sinful activities on account of their ignorance. If you say, "No, how you can say they are in ignorance? There are so many universities. They are passing M.A.C., D.A.C., doctor, Ph.D., and still they are ignorant?" "Yes." "How?" Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "The so-called knowledge is taken away by māyā." Otherwise why they are sticking to this material world? If you become enlightened, then you must know that this material world is not for our habitation. We must go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching that "This is not your home. Don't try to be happy here." Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir, the external energy. They are thinking that "Materially, if we make some arrangement..." Some of them are trying to be happy by scientific improvement or some of them are trying to go to the heavenly planet, and some of them are trying to become this, that, but they do not know that real happiness is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know that. So this is very important movement, that we are giving them hint and education how to go back to home, back to Godhead.
So we do not know subtle laws of nature, subtle laws of God, how things are happening, how things are going on. And without knowing these facts, our human life is spoiled. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince, educate people the value of life, how the process of living conditions are going on. Not we have manufactured all this. It is received from the Vedas. Vedas means the book of knowledge. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Jñāna means knowledge. So human life is meant for taking knowledge, jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya. So vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam (SB 1.2.7). When we understand... We are now implicated in so many sinful life, and we have to reap the result. We have to suffer for it in dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are not going to die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is not that everything... The atheists thinks like that—"When this body is finished, everything is finished." That is not the fact. There were atheists in India also.
Similarly, the modes of material nature are three: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. And as we are infecting ourself with the three kinds of modes of material nature, we are getting different types of bodies. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). I am put into these laws of material nature, and as I am acting under the influence of different modes of material nature, I am getting a type of body. That is my material position. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. Death means changing body. We are changing body every moment, every second, and getting a new body imperceptibly. And the last change of this body is taken as death, transmigration of the soul. But nobody knows "What kind of change is going to happen in my next body or next life." But there is change of body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Just like I was a child. Now I have got another body, the body is changed. Similarly, when this body will be finished, then I will get another body. This is a fact. If we cannot understand, then we have to take it from authority to understand, because understanding means taking knowledge from the authority.
Kṛṣṇa says, the Lord says, that "Those who are miscreants, always trying to do harm to the society, to the country, to the people, to the other animals, other living creatures..." They are called duṣkṛtina, miscreants. Miscreants. Na mām duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. And fools. So miscreants, fools, and narādhamāḥ. Narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. Narādhamāḥ. And māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: and one whose knowledge is taken away by the illusory energy. Who are they? So-called educated. The so-called educated persons, they are very much proud of their university degree, but if you ask some of them, "What you are? Wherefrom you have come to this world, and where you are going next?" Oh, they will say, "What is this nonsense? I am... I do not know wherefrom I have come, where I am going. I have no concern with that. I am concerned with the present life. That's all." But actually, we are not this present life. It is only a spot in our journey. (end)
So yoga siddhi, these wonderful things are there. Similarly, one can walk on the water. He'll not be drowned. He becomes so light he can float in the air. These are... So siddhya. Siddhya means the persons who reside in that planet, they have got automatically, by taking birth in that... Just like taking birth in the Western countries, America or Europe, you are more opulent than other countries materially. Similarly, in Kṛṣṇaloka also, those who are there, they are automatically all lover of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, there are many different planets, different kinds of residents. We... What knowledge we have got? But we have to take knowledge from the śāstra. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, śāstra-cakṣuṣat. You have to understand, you have to gather your knowledge from authentic scripture, not by experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge cannot be perfect because our instruments of acquiring knowledge are imperfect. So however we may tackle these instruments perfectly in our way, basically they are imperfect.
So this is the test. This is the test, that as soon as one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately he comes to the group of sinful activities, rascaldom, lowest of the mankind, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, all knowledge taken away, and he's an asura, Hiraṇyakaśipu's family, Hiraṇyakaśipu's category. So this is not optional, that "If I don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is my wish, my desire." No. If you desire in that way then you'll be punished. You become immediately... You cannot say, "It is my optional. I may become a thief; I may remain honest. That is my option." No. As soon as you become thief, you are punishable. Similarly, anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately punishable. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The punishment will go on in various ways. That is going on. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). The punishment... This is punishment. That is presented by Kṛṣṇa.
That civilization is spiritual life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for spiritual life, not for material life like cats and dogs. This is not required. This is Vedānta philosophy, athāto brahma jijñāsā. One must try to learn what is the ultimate source of everything, not that theorizing or, what is called, imagining something. Take knowledge from the right source, brahma-vidyā, the Vedic knowledge, and try to understand the situation, what is Brahman, what you are. We are also Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. These things are to be known. And when we neglect to understand these things, that means we are going to the wrong way of life. The wrong way of life can be allowed up to the animal life. Out of 8,400,000 forms of life, the animal life, three million types of animal life, by evolutionary process we come to the human life. Now we should inquire about spiritual life. That is civilization. Without spiritual life, without inquiring the spiritual life, it is animal life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And spiritual life means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa comes to explain Himself. And hear from Him and understand Him as He says. Then, as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, your life is successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
So it is possible. Because a living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so he has got the qualities of Kṛṣṇa in very, very minute, fragmental portion. I have several times explained this. Just like a small drop of sea water has got the same chemical composition as the vast sea water. Therefore, if you taste the vast sea water, it is salty, and the drop is also salty because the same chemical composition is there in minute quantity. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is svatantam. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. Bhāgavata begins that "The origin of everything, the Absolute Truth, is sentient." He's not a chunk. He's sentient. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). Abhijñaḥ means sentient. He's not a dull matter. But, the question is, wherefrom knowledge and sense comes? We have to take senses, learn knowledge, from master, from teacher. But so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He is svarāṭ. He hasn't got to take any knowledge from anyone. That is Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, feature, svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. Everything He's independent. He's not dependent. Nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. The other day we learned, nija-lābha-pūrṇaḥ. He is always complete in Himself.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
But we have to take knowledge from superior authority. I am always not in knowledge. That is my position. But we take knowledge from superior authority. So we are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most superior authority. (break) ...our Vedic system. It is advised, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That is the system. Just like you are a medical man. To acquire your knowledge, you had to accept the medical college, the professors. So this is natural. If we want to know something which is not, or which is unknown to me, then we have to accept a guru, a superior man. Guru means superior man. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Guru means "heavy," or "superior." That is the law. So our process of Vedic knowledge is that we get knowledge from the superior just like Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. He's the first, original creature, within this universe. And he got knowledge from God, Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute.
But the, our point is very strong, that you cannot get perfect knowledge from imperfect person. That is not possible. That's a fact. You can get knowledge only from the perfect. That is real knowledge. The modern scientific knowledge, taking perfection. The next year, again changes. "This theory is changed." So they, they say that this is advancement. We are making progress. This means that whatever knowledge you are making your basis, that is imperfect. Progress means then you have to go to the perfect. That means the knowledge which you possessed, that was imperfect. Again you say... "So from imperfect platform we are going to the perfect." But if we get from the perfect this knowledge, then we get perfect knowledge, from the perfect person. Perfect person means he does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. His senses are not imperfect. And he does not cheat. This is the four points of perfection. Cheating propensity's there. To the imperfect person, there is cheating propensity. He knows that this point, "I'm not very clear, but still he gives some idea." That is cheating. There are so many... Darwin's theory. Others. "Perhaps, it may be." Like this. These words are there, used. What is the use of this "perhaps?" That means imperfect knowledge. "It may be. There is something missing." So how we can believe all this imperfect knowledge? Now we don't take this knowledge, "perhaps, maybe." Just like in the śāstra it is said: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are nine-hundred-thousands forms of aquatic life. Nine hundred-thousands. In the Vedas, it is said. It doesn't say: one more or two less.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
The water came from His perspiration, and then He lies down there. Then He creates the lotus flower. And upon the lotus flower, a Brahmā is first-born. This is creation. That Brahmā means not an uncivilized human being; the most intelligent person, first creation. We cannot accept the rubbish theory of Darwin that there was no human being. That is his theory. That is not fact. He admits also that "I have made this by speculation." He has admitted. Our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara has quoted from his letter to a friend that he admits that he simply speculated. He has no factual knowledge. So you cannot understand the method of creation by your tiny brain's speculation. You give up this idea. This is not possible at all. You take knowledge from the śāstra, from the person who is perfect in knowledge. We have got knowledge. We have got knowledge. Somebody has got more knowledge than me, than you. But Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). You cannot find out a person who has got more knowledge than Kṛṣṇa. And God means one who has got full knowledge.
Oh, that is also replied, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Oh, he's educated—so-called. The māyā has plundered his all knowledge." That means although... He's an educated fool. There are educated rascals. They have got some university degrees, but actually they are rascal, less than an ass. So that is also described: māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. They have acquired some knowledge undoubtedly, but the essence of the knowledge is taken away by māyā. Essence of the knowledge. Just like I give you milk, but I churn it. I take the butter out, and I give you milk. It is just like that. If milk is administered, taking out the butter, that is also a cheating, because milk means to take fat. Fat we require. For our proper maintenance of the body, we require fat. So milk-drinking means eating fat. So if the fat is already taken away, what is this milk?
Still, "No, I see that his son addresses him 'father.' He is the father, considering him as ordinary man. And still he's as good as God?" Yes. Still he's as good as God. Why? Because he does not speak anything nonsense except what he has heard from God. That is the qualification. In this way, if we study Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and... Of course, Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the higher study. Still we have got all these books, very exalted, authorized books, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Nectar of Devotion. So we request, especially... Of course, I am pleased that these countrymen of this American country, they are taking our books, reading. So gradually they will understand. But take real knowledge. Don't be misled by bluffers who have no authority to speak. And to cheat you... Because you are wanting, hankering after something, so so many bluffers, cheaters, they come and cheat you. Don't be cheated. Here is authorized literature.
So less intelligent, for them, it is inconceivable, but those who are intelligent, they take knowledge from the right source. Just like even though I do not know who is my father, but if I take information from my mother, then I can know. Mother says, "My dear child, he's your father." There's no question of research. You can immediately understand your father. Father must be there. But I do not know, that may be a problem, but when the mother says, "Here is your father," then where is the difficulty? So mother is the source of knowledge of the father. The Vedas, they are called mother. Veda-mātā. These books, Vedic knowledge, this is the mother. From mother you can take information that there is father. And here is father.
So therefore there are different kinds of literature because there are different kinds of people. But the ultimate literature is, the substance of all Vedic literature is the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kṛṣṇe sva-dhāma upagate dharma-jñānādibhiḥ saha. It is..., there is a verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. When Kṛṣṇa was present He personally gave this Bhagavad-gītā and all knowledge. So many people took knowledge. There is another gītā, Uddhava-gītā. That was spoken to Uddhava. That is in Bhāgavata; this is in Mahābhārata, Bhagavad-gītā. So there is a question by the Śaunaka Ṛṣi that, after departure of Kṛṣṇa, wherefrom knowledge should be searched? So they recommended this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So in the Padma Purāṇa also there is similar passages. In Bhāgavatam also, there are similar passages. In all Vedic literature, the same thing is there. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). The last target and the last goal, ultimate goal, is Kṛṣṇa.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
But we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Our process is that. We don't accept any other process of knowledge. Our knowledge is to receive the knowledge from the authority, and that is fact. That is first-class knowledge. If you get one authority who can speak on the subject matter, and if you take that knowledge, that is perfect. There are three kinds of processes to receive knowledge. The first: we believe direct sense perception, pratyakṣa. Just like somebody says, "Can you show me God?" That means they are Pratyakṣavādi. They want to see everything direct, experience everything directly. This class of men says that "Can you show me God?" But this is not first-class knowledge. Suppose you ask me, "Can you show me God?" I say, "Yes, I can show you God." "Show me." "I'll show you. So this is God." Will you believe it? Suppose you are asking me, "Can you show me God?" I say, "Yes, I can show you." "What is that God?" "Here is God," I say. So will you accept it that this microphone is God? What is the answer? Huh? Why no?
These Vedas means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Veda, Veda means knowledge. So if you want real knowledge, then you have to take shelter of these Vedas, Vedic literature, just like Īśopaniṣad. There are 108 Upaniṣads, out of which, nine are very important. Out of that nine, this Īśopaniṣad stands first, then Taittirīya Upaniṣad, Māṇḍūkya Upaniṣad, Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad. So the Upaniṣad... Upa, upa means nearing. So this knowledge will take you nearer to Kṛṣṇa. And amongst the learned society, ācāryas, the śruti-pramāṇa... Evidence is śruti. Śruti means these Vedas. They are not experimental knowledge. They are not knowledge established by the research work of contaminated, conditioned soul. Contaminated, conditioned soul, their senses are imperfect. They cannot see things as they are. Simply they theorize, "It may be like that." So much they can say. So "It may be like that," that is no knowledge. Knowledge definite. There is no mistake.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
If six paramāṇu combines in, one becomes atom. There are so minute divisions. So, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). So we worship... Brahmā says tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. I am worshiping that Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we are disciplic succession from Brahmā. Therefore our process is to follow the footsteps of ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, for making progress in knowledge, one has to worship ācārya, ācāryopāsanam. So by paramparā system we follow. How Govinda enters, that doesn't matter. We do not bother about that thing. That is not our business. How Govinda enters in the atom, that is not our business. Our ācārya says, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham, He enters. We accept, that's all. Our business is finished. This is Vedic way of understanding. We take knowledge from the authority and do not bother unnecessarily speculating. We don't waste our time in that way. Our time is very valuable. Instead of researching how Govinda enters in the atom, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, utilize that time. So this line is very nice. Every knowledge is perfect there from the disciplic succession. You take it and be advanced, that's all. We don't bother much.
Festival Lectures
So we are not interested now about calculation the perfect knowledge. This perfect knowledge comes from God, or Kṛṣṇa, and it is distributed by paramparā system, by disciplic succession. The example is just there, a mango tree. On the top of the mango tree there is a very ripened fruit, and that fruit has to be tasted. So if I drop the fruit from up, it will be lost. Therefore it is handed over, after one, after one, after... Then it comes down. So all Vedic process of knowledge is taking from the authority. And it comes down through disciplic succession. Just like I have already explained, Kṛṣṇa gives the knowledge, perfect knowledge, to Brahmā, and Brahmā gives the knowledge to Nārada. Nārada gives the knowledge to Vyāsa. Vyāsa gives the knowledge to Madhvācārya. Madhvācārya gives the knowledge to his disciplic succession, later on, to Mādhavendra Purī. Mādhavendra Purī gives that knowledge to Īśvara Purī. Īśvara Purī gives that knowledge to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Caitanya. He delivers that knowledge to His immediate disciples, six Gosvāmīs. The six Gosvāmīs delivers the knowledge to Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, Jīva Gosvāmī. Then Kavirāja Gosvāmī, then Viśvanātha Cakravartī, then Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, then Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, then my spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. Then we are distributing the same knowledge.
So after being liberated from the material concept of life by the blessings of Kṛṣṇa and guru, one comes to the platform of first-class knowledge, where he engages himself directly in the service of the Lord. That is first-class knowledge. First-class knowledge means beyond liberation. Second-class knowledge is trying for liberation. Third-class knowledge means in bondage, like animal. The animals, they are bound up by the particular type of body and has no, I mean to say, possibility of becoming liberated. That is animal life. But human life is better than animal life because he, if he likes, he can make himself liberated from this bondage of material body. That is the facility. He can understand himself what he is. He can understand what is God. He can understand the relationship between God and himself. He can understand what is this material world. Because there are thousands of books of knowledge. Take it for Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. And it is meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot understand, but a human being can understand.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
This singing is the process for clearing the dust accumulated on the heart. Our relationship with God is eternal. It cannot be broken. But due to the contact of māyā we are trying to forget Him. But if we chant this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then māyā will not act, and we shall very quickly understand what is our relationship with God. That is the process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The Sanskrit word is "cleansing the dirty heart." The dirty heart. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are miscreants, rascals, and lowest of the mankind, and taken all knowledge, and atheistic class of men, they do not know what is God. Others, those who are virtuous, those who are inquisitive, those who are wise, they will try and they will understand what is God. So my appeal to you is that you try to understand this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a bogus movement. It is scientific, authorized. Any scientist, any philosopher and logician may come and we shall prove that there is God and we have got eternal relationship with God.
This is not our manufactured words; it is kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, that "Anyone who is not surrendered to Me, duṣkṛtina, he is immediately classified into four groups." What are they? Duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. So it is a very simple thing. Who is a mūḍha? If one does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, if one does not understand what Kṛṣṇa, he is either duṣkṛtina, means sinful; mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind; and māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, and his so-called education and degrees are useless because real knowledge is taken away from him. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. So there is no need of fighting by... But we can understand what are these people in general. They are within these four groups of men. So we have to face them. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is facing these rascals, these duṣkṛtinas, these narādhamas, and to request them to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You cannot sit idly to show your gorgeousness in a secluded place, imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. No. You have to preach. That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128).
Initiation Lectures
Guest: Is it completely each individual's choice to be demonic, or...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demon means when he is forgotten, when has lost his sense, that is demon. When has lost his sense, that is demon. Demon means māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Māyā, by the influence of māyā, the true aspect of knowledge is taken away. Anyone who is trying to establish it that "There is no God," he is demon. That's all. There are so many philosophers, so many atheists, so many scientists. Their only business is to deny God. They are demons. Yes.
Guest: Then is there individual complete choice?
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Yes. Apahṛta-jñānāḥ means just like a madman. For the time being, his natural knowledge is taken away. Crazy. What do we mean by crazy? For the time being, his knowledge is taken away. Similarly, when a living entity is in that position, as somebody has taken away his knowledge, that is demonic condition. But he can be reestablished again in knowledge. Just like a crazy man is sent, mental disorder, to hospital for treatment; again he comes as a sane man. Similarly, the demons are just like crazy men. Even they are treated with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can be reverted to their own position. So this is temporary. This demoniac nature is temporary due to the contact with māyā. Therefore the whole business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā. Then there is no more demonic nature. It is artificial. (break) ...superficial. It comes and goes. As it comes artificially, so it can go also. And the driving method is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
General Lectures
So Kṛṣṇa is the ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Just like the father gives the bīja. Yoni, the mother is the yoni, and the father is the bīja. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. We get our body by the bīja and yoni. Similarly, this material world is the yoni, mother, and the Kṛṣṇa is the bīja. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So in this way, different forms of life has come in—8,400,000 species of life. So they're all sanātana. All these living entities are sanātana, but on account of their forgetfulness being diverted, misled by the illusory energy... Māyayā apahṛta jñānāḥ. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā (BG 7.15). Their jñāna, their knowledge, has been taken away by māyā; therefore they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ. Because they're foolish, rascal, therefore Māyā has taken their knowledge. And therefore, na māṁ prapadyante, "They do not surrender unto Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for para-upakāra, for doing good to others—the best welfare activities in the world. And it is India's duty, it is India's prerogative to take this knowledge and broadcast all over the world for para-upakāra. And actually it is happening. All these European and American boys and girls, they are trying to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously. So it is very scientific, authorized and practical also. So we hope that all of you who are present here will try to cooperate with this movement, and let us meet at least so long as I am here. That will be very beneficial.
Otherwise, by speculation we cannot understand God. It is not possible. He is unlimited and we are limited. Our knowledge, our perception, all of them are very limited. So how we can understand the unlimited? But if we accept the version of the unlimited, that He is like this, like that, then we can understand. That is perfect knowledge. Speculative knowledge of God has no value. Real knowledge, just like... I give this example. Just like if a boy wants to know who is father, who is his father, the simple thing is (to) ask mother. Or mother gives, "Here is your father." That is perfect knowledge. And if you speculate, "Who is my father?" and ask the whole city "Are you my father? Are you my father? Are you my father?" The knowledge will always remain imperfect. He'll never find out what is his father. But this simple process, if he takes the knowledge from (of) his father, the authority, mother, "My dear boy, here is your father," then your knowledge is perfect.
I cannot express for the time being a thing, what it is, but I can distinguish what it is not. So similarly, at the present moment, everyone is under ignorance. He does not know what is the soul. That is the basic principle of missing point of this material civilization. I talked with many big, big professors in Europe. Most of them, they do not know what is the soul. (aside:) That sound cannot be stopped for the time being? When I was in Moscow, I had the opportunity of talking with some professors. One of them was very interested, Professor Kotovsky. So he said, "Swamijī, after death everything is finished." So I was simply surprised that a responsible professor, teaching staff, he's completely in ignorance about the existence of soul. So that is the defect of the modern civilization. One who is not perfect in knowledge, he is as a teacher, he's passing on as a teacher. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Andhāḥ means blind. One blind man, he is trying to help other blind man. So what is the use of such advancement of education? If the teacher himself is blind, then what is the use of taking knowledge from him? That is going on.
So Kṛṣṇa is the ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Just like the father gives the bīja, yoni... The mother is the yoni, and the father is the bīja. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. We get our body by the bīja and yoni. Similarly, this material world is the yoni, mother, and the Kṛṣṇa is the bīja. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. So in this way different forms of life are coming—8,400,000 species of life. So they are all sanātana. All these living entities are sanātana. But on account of their forgetfulness, being diverted, misled by the illusory energy, māyayā apahṛta-jñānam... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhā duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayā apahṛta-jñānam. Their jñāna, their knowledge, has been taken away by māyā; therefore they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhā. "Because they are foolish rascal, therefore māyā has taken their knowledge, and therefore," na māṁ prapadyante, "they do not surrender unto Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Therefore we have to understand dharma from scriptures. Veda, veda means the book of knowledge. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñānam. Jñāna. So we have to take knowledge from authorized scriptures, authorized lawbook. A big lawyer means who is quite aware of the laws of the state. Similarly, a religious person means who knows completely, at least partially also, the laws of God. That is dharmic. That is dharma. So what is God? You have to understand. Then what does He say? You have to understand, then you can execute actually what is religion. If you do not know what is government, what is the laws of the government, how you can become a good citizen? That is not possible. A good citizen, good citizen means who abide by the laws of the state. Similarly, a religious person means who abides by the order of God. This is dharma.
There are very, very big powerful demigods, just like Indra, Candra, the sun. Sun is also demigod. The sun is distributing the light, that is by the order of God, not independently. Anything you find, they are abiding by the laws of, or by the order of God. The whole total cosmic manifestation which is called material energy, that is also acting by the order of God. Many śāstras, we have to take knowledge from the śāstras. And if you judge from good sense and intelligence, you'll have to admit what is said in the śāstra. Now just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). We are very much astonished to see the activities of the material nature wonderfully working. But we do not know that behind the material nature there is God. Under His direction the material nature is working. That is intelligence. Material nature, matter... Matter cannot act independently. That is not possible. Just like this microphone is a combination of material things—some iron, some other metals. But it has been adjusted, created by some living entity. Not that matter has automatically come into intermingling with this other and become a microphone. That is not possible. Take any machine. It may be very wonderful machine. Just like nowadays the wonderful machine is computer.
Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, there are many names. There are millions of names of God. We are just mentioning one or two. So anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam: the cause of all causes. Everything has got cause and effect. So therefore Arjuna has decided to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Being. And He has no material body; therefore His knowledge, whatever knowledge is given by Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. Anyone who is giving knowledge in this material body, he has got four defects. The first defect is that a person in the material body must commit mistake. Must commit, less or more. And the..., anyone who possessing this material body, he must be illusioned. Illusioned means that accepting something for something.
This is the first instruction. Because Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, He chastised him with little hard words, that "You are not a paṇḍita." Now, you just consider what is the position of this world. Everyone is taking care of this body. But Kṛṣṇa said, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The paṇḍitāḥ, one who is learned, he knows that he is not this body. He is soul. So our first business is to take care of the soul. And this is the opportunity, this human form of body. In the human form of body we can understand Bhagavad-gītā, not in the dog's body. That is not possible. So by evolution, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, from aquatics to trees, plants, then insects, then birds, then beast, then human being, then civilized human being... In this civilized form of human being, if we do not take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā personally given by the Lord Himself, then we are missing the point. This is the whole Vedic literature's lesson, that human form of life is meant for self-realization: "I am not this body. I am soul. I am spirit soul. My business is different from simply taking care of the body." This is human civilization.
One who has actually seen or actually realized the truth, you have to take knowledge from there. So we have to approach such person. Otherwise, if we approach some speculator, we cannot get real knowledge. So those who are speculators, they cannot understand what is God. Therefore they commit mistake that "God is like this," "God like that," "There is no God," "There is no form." All these nonsense things are proposed, because they are imperfect. Bhagavān therefore said, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ (BG 9.11). Because He comes for our benefit in the human form, the fools and rascals consider Him as ordinary person. If Bhagavān says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am the seed-giving father," so we, every one of us, we know that my father is person, his father is person, his father is person, and why the Supreme Person or the supreme father should become imperson? Why? And therefore we have to learn from Bhagavān, the Supreme Person, full knowledge. This Bhagavad-gītā is therefore full knowledge from the full Personality of Godhead. We cannot change even one word in this Bhagavad-gītā. That is folly.
So spiritual knowledge means to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the sum and substance, to understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is, not that concocting, manufacturing that "Kṛṣṇa is this. Kṛṣṇa is that." No. As Kṛṣṇa says, as śāstra says what is Kṛṣṇa, you have to understand it like that. So sādhu śāstra guru vākya. It is said that we have to accept knowledge through saintly person. Through śāstra and guru we have to understand. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all the sādhus and ācāryas. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu—all of them accepted Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So ācārya means one who has learned, taken knowledge from the śāstra, authoritative śāstra, Vedas. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, ācāryopāsanam. If you want real knowledge, then you must take knowledge from the ācāryas or the ācārya-paramparā. Then there is knowledge. Otherwise it is ignorance.
This human life, human form of life was given to him by laws of nature to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God, but he's not using it. Misusing it. They are called narādhama. And then, next group is māyayāpahṛta jñāna. You can say, "There are so many learned persons. They are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are after drinking and eating meat and... They are education." So then, He says that "They are educated. They have so-called educated, but their real knowledge is taken away." Just like one is rich man, but his money is taken away. So these four groups... So why this meritorious person or educated person, they do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? That means dull brain. So in order to make the dull brain suitable for understanding Kṛṣṇa, these four principles of austerities is the first need: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Then his brain, the finer tissues of the brain, will develop to understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not possible.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: He separates fact from idea. For instance, I may think this table is red, but it is actually brown. So my idea is incorrect.
Prabhupāda: Your idea may be, but actually it has got a color, either red or yellow. So if you have eye disease, you cannot see actually, but one whose eyes are not diseased, he can see whether it is yellow or red. Just like sometimes glaucoma—you see the moon as two moons, but actually there is one moon. But due to your eye disease you see two moons. But one who is not diseased, he sees one moon. Therefore we have to take knowledge from a person who is not diseased. Not that because my eyes are diseased, I cannot see things right way, I shall say, "Oh, there is no possibility of having right knowledge." That is not correct.
Hayagrīva: He maintains that man cannot know ultimate reality or possess knowledge of anything beyond a mere awareness of phenomenal sensory images.
Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. But if man cannot have any knowledge, so who is going to take your knowledge? Better you stop, don't talk. Is it not?
Hayagrīva: So much for Hume. (laughs) That's the end of Hume.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean is not that the conclusion? If he is skeptic, he does not take other's statement why he expects that his statement will be taken? Why does he propose any statement? Does he think that he is the greatest of all? Then everyone can think like that. That skeptic has no ground. He cannot say. If he is skeptic he should stop, he should not stand.
Hayagrīva: Why write so many books?
Prabhupāda: What?
Hayagrīva: Why write so many books?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "Absolutely no human reason can hope to understand the production of even a blade of grass by mere mechanical causes."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he has to know everything from the person or authority who knows that thing. That means this is perfect way of understanding, to take knowledge from the authority who is actually cognizant and knows things as they are.
Hayagrīva: He believes that behind nature or mechanical laws, he says that crude matter, or prakṛti, should have originally formed itself according to mechanical laws or automatically; that life should have sprung from the nature of what is lifeless. That matter should have been able to dispose itself into the form of a self-maintaining purpose is contradictory to reason. Simply by using our reason we can intuit the creator behind the creation.
Prabhupāda: No. Unless there is a brain... Matter has no brain. Matter cannot combine together without a brain behind. That brain is the Supreme Lord, God. That is quite reasonable. And if somebody thinks matter automatically combines together and becomes the sun, becomes the moon, so bright, without any brain behind it—that is ludicrous.
Hayagrīva: He says this can be intuited, but not known.
Prabhupāda: Not known? To foolish man everything is unknown, but to a man who is in knowledge, he knows everything. From the authority or my direct perception, somehow or other the knowledge is there. So "unknown" means that he doesn't care to know. Where to take knowledge he doesn't know, neither he personally knows; therefore it is unknown.
Hayagrīva: For him we cannot experience God through our senses.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. We always say that when God explains Himself, that is also not to everyone—only to the devotees. The devotees can accept the Personality of Godhead as He instructs. A nondevotee or atheist he cannot understand; he simply speculates. But by speculation it is not possible to understand God.
Śyāmasundara: He's seeing it but perhaps he doesn't have the knowledge of what it is.
Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But he's seeing.
Śyāmasundara: So supposing he has no knowledge what it is, but isn't that object still a spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Then he has to take knowledge from person who knows.
Śyāmasundara: My question is, is that object still not spiritual?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows or does not know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Fact is fact.
Śyāmasundara: It's still spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Any object.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no see. He has not eyes to see it, that it is spiritual. He has no knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: That's what Hegel is trying to find out, that ultimate synthesis.
Prabhupāda: He has to find out that he has no knowledge to find out; he has to take knowledge from us. We can help him.
Śyāmasundara: But anyway the basic idea is that every fact can only be understood by relating it to its opposite.
Prabhupāda: That is in the relative world because here everything is relative. We cannot understand what is father unless he has got a son, and he cannot understand a son unless he has got a father. So similarly this world is like that. You cannot understand what is white unless there is black. And you cannot understand black unless there is white. So this is relative world, this is not absolute world. In the absolute world the black, white, everything is one.
Prabhupāda: The whole thing is that Dr. Frog, famous story. He comes to this country, Dr. Frog's understanding. He has studied the three-feet-wide well, and he says he is satisfied with that. He has nothing to do with the Atlantic Ocean. But Atlantic Ocean is also a reservoir of water, and that well is also a reservoir of water. But (there is a) vast difference. So we take knowledge of who has created Atlantic Ocean. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. What do you say?
Śyāmasundara: I just want to try to cover this from every angle so that Darwinists will not be able to argue. Today I'd like to find out how they date earth layers, how geologists find...
Prabhupāda: No. Your geologists have given, "It may be millions of years ago." They say like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They estimate.
Prabhupāda: Estimate.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, I have another question about... There are certain scientists, who through speculative knowledge, they have acquired some little bit of knowledge through speculation. My question is, Prabhupāda, that yes, maybe through speculation we can get knowledge, some knowledge, but isn't it, as Kṛṣṇa says that He is the source of all knowledge and there is no way to get to any knowledge except through His representative, that that, for example, if Bergson comes to the knowledge, even though he did not accept a spiritual master or a prophet, he acquired it because that knowledge was made available to him through some other way. In other words...
Prabhupāda: How he takes the knowledge, if it comes..., does not come to the final conclusion? That kind of knowledge anyone can get. It does not need a philosophy. To some extent.
Atreya Ṛṣi: But knowledge of God, knowledge of soul...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Real knowledge. Can one, purely speculatively, can one...
Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise the Vedas would not have asked you, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), that in order to learn that transcendental science one must approach a guru.
Śyāmasundara: Well, since knowledge is limited to our experience...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. If your knowledge is limited, then you cannot generalize. Therefore our conclusion is that we don't take knowledge from anyone whose power is limited. There are four defects of the ordinary man—he may be John Stuart Mill or something—because he's to commit mistakes, he's illusioned. Just like he's talking of that induction, studying all men. This is an illusion. He cannot study. Suppose you have hundreds and thousands of men you have studied. That does not mean the whole set of human being is finished. That is, therefore, this theory is illusion. And because he's an ordinary man, he's illusioned that it is possible. So these are the defects. One commits mistakes, one is illusioned, one cheats. This is cheating also. The theory which he is putting forward is never possible to be executed, and still he's posing himself that he is philosopher. That is cheating. His senses are imperfect. He cannot do that. And still he proposes the theory. That is cheating. So these four defects are there: committing mistake, to illusion, to cheat others, and studying everything with imperfect senses.
Śyāmasundara: He says that because the world is so mad, it could not possibly have any author. Because if there was a God, that God would have set the world in order.
Prabhupāda: Then why he is mad? We have got experience that there are madmen, but there is hospital also for treating the madmen. Similarly, the world may be mad, but there is hospitalization. That he does not know. From practical experience we see there are many madmen. At the same time there is a hospital, lunatic hospitals also, so treatment is there. So he does not see that. He has no knowledge where is the hospital, how he'll get and be treated. This is accepted, the world is mad, that's all right. But there is treatment also. Because in our experience practically we can show whenever there is disease, there is some treatment of it. But he does not know what is the treatment. He is speaking of sinful life, what he was saying, just like, but he does not accept who is the judge to give me resultant action of my sinful life. The world is mad, but he does not know where the treatment of madman is done. He does not know. Therefore his knowledge is imperfect, and still he is philosophizing. That is the defect. Our proposition is that unless one is perfect, we cannot take knowledge from him. That is our proposition. Therefore our authority is Veda. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Why it is perfect? Because it is given by God. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). The Vedic knowledge was imparted to Brahma within the heart. So the perfect knowledge is coming from the supreme perfect. When you take that knowledge, then your knowledge is perfect. Otherwise you can go on. You can become Dr. Frog, that's all.
Acyutānanda: Seems like more than serious too. Also a person must be intelligent. I may be very serious and I may say which is gold...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to go to an intelligent person. He is not intelligent. Anyway, seriousness does not mean... Seriousness is intelligence, but that is not perfect intelligence. Real intelligence means..., seriousness means that he takes knowledge from a man who is better intelligent than him. That is real intelligence.
Śyāmasundara: So here, Husserl reaches the point of understanding, of observing, of analyzing the transcendental observer, or transcendental ego. He comes to the understanding that there is a spiritual basis for everything. But still, we're talking about how he reaches that point. So he describes...
Prabhupāda: Transcendental observer, that is sometimes known as conscience—something dictating. I reject or may accept. Something dictating from within. That is transcendental.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "As it is a delicate task to decide what God has Himself ordained and what derives rather from the authority of an all-powerful parliament or a supreme judicial decision, it would be an indubitable advantage to leave God out of the question altogether and to admit honestly the purely human origin of all cultural laws and instructions." In other words, man is the law-giver...
Prabhupāda: That, that means he has no clear conception of God, because God has to take power from some parliament. God does not take power from anyone. He is God. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataḥ ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1), that the Supreme, God, or Supreme Truth, Brahman, He knows everything. He knows everything in details. And wherefrom? Abhijñaḥ. He is, abhijñaḥ means completely in awareness. Then the question may be raised that "How He got this complete knowledge? From whom He received?" The answer is immediate, svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. That is God. If one has to take knowledge from Mr. Freud, then he is not God. Anyone, if you come to that person that He is independent, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport), naturally He is all-perfect. He hasn't got to become perfect by some process or from some authority. That is God. He is all-perfect automatically. That is God.
Hayagrīva: He says, "On a higher level the process of resurrection is no longer understood in a gross material sense. It is assumed that the resurrection of the dead is the raising up of the corpus glorificaciones, that is the glorified body, the subtle body, in the state of incorruptibility."
Prabhupāda: That I said, the spiritual body. The spiritual body never changes. When one comes with the spiritual body there is no change. Material body changes, but God has no material body. The conception of..., Māyāvādī conception that Absolute Truth is impersonal, when He comes as a person He accepts a material body, that is not understood by those who are advanced in spiritual knowledge or take information from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ (BG 9.11). Because He appears as a human being, rascals think that He is a human being, but He is not. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. He has no knowledge of the spiritual body.
Śyāmasundara: So for each fact there is..., it's also composed of several other facts...
Prabhupāda: Actually, as we say, that anti-matter are fixed up in (indistinct). I say anti-matter is spirit. That spirit soul is very small, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya: (CC Madhya 19.140) the tip of the hair divided into ten thousand parts. So it is unimaginable by the modern scientist. Therefore the ultimate smallest part is the spirit soul, spark, part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit. Therefore we have to take the knowledge from Vedas. That is the perfect (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: He says there are two types of logical atoms—the sense data and universals. And this problem, he saw, of the difference between the crude data of the senses and the things as understood by physical sciences. So he divided these into two types of knowledge. The knowledge of sense data is the immediate knowledge by acquaintance with something, and the knowledge of physical science is that knowledge derived from things, or inferred, by description from things. And he says the example of the first type of knowledge...
Prabhupāda: This knowledge, what is that?
Devotee: Inference.
Śyāmasundara: The first type of knowledge, centralized in the senses, such as "This snowball is white," he says that type of knowledge, there is no possibility of error, because it is knowledge that's direct or immediate. There's no mediation between. Immediate.
Prabhupāda: Therefore our proposition, to receive perfect knowledge from the authorities, that is perfect. As Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-praptam (BG 4.2). Kṛṣṇa is perfect, and whatever knowledge He imparts, that is perfect. If we take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, then our knowledge is perfect. I may not be as perfect as Kṛṣṇa, but if I simply accept the statements of Kṛṣṇa, then my knowledge is perfect.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this type of conclusion such as "All men are mortal," there is no possibility of error because different people may arrive at the opposite conclusion...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) What is that?
Śyāmasundara: He says that this type of conclusion that "All men are mortal," there is room, there is possibility of error in those kind of conclusions because different people arrive at different...
Prabhupāda: No. This knowledge is perfect because our proof is Vedas. In the Vedas it is stated that bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). In the Vedas it is stated that anything material, by its birth, its growth, its staying, its by-product, its dwindling, and then vanish. This is the nature of everything material. That we get from the Vedas, that everything which is born is sure to die. So birth, death, old age, by-products, dwindling, this is material nature's way. But we get the perfect knowledge from Vedas; therefore our knowledge is perfect. So we can accept perfect knowledge without any examination.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says there is cause and effect, but these have little effect on the main events that comprise reality.
Prabhupāda: No. There's a cause, a supreme cause, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), supreme cause. They'll have to find out the supreme cause. Just like I was eating that fruit, what is called? (indistinct) what is the English of (indistinct)? All right. Take any fruit, any fruit, I am eating one fruit. Take orange. So take each piece of orange parts, there are so many seeds, and each seed there is a tree, and each tree there is millions of fruit, and each fruit there is millions of seeds, and each seed, there is a (indistinct) tree. So who has made this? Speak up. Therefore you have to find out the supreme cause. That is knowledge. (indistinct) And Brahmā, the most perfect (indistinct) in this universe, he says that
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
How you have to take that knowledge from the superior? He gives us the key: sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). Vedānta is searching out what is Brahman. Brahman means the original source of everything. (break) ...mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). So those who are vidhā, actually learned, they know that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme source of everything; therefore we should offer our obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. This is actually knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: So they even (indistinct) material in factors of clothing, matter (indistinct). It was his idea that matter changes through history according to economic development, economic changes.
Prabhupāda: We take our knowledge from authority. Just like this (indistinct) pratiṣṭhā. We take it from authority. So this is the science. Everyone is after some profit, some adoration and some position.
Prabhupāda: Therefore these things have been forbidden for persons who are advanced in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because if you have got all these material desires, then you cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). These are called anyābhila, desiring something for material profit. So, bhakti is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam, one must be completely free from all these desires, material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167), without any aspiration for resultant action of knowledge and karma. Knowledge means, just like the jñānīs, they are cultivating knowledge, but their aim is how to become one with God. That is their aim. That means here he says to get a position to his satisfaction, now he wants to get the position of God. Let us say I am superficially (indistinct) that he is a sannyāsī, he does not possess anything but by his sacrificing all position it this world he wants to get possession of the Supreme Lord. He is (indistinct) that I have given up everything but I want to (indistinct) of your (indistinct). So this is going on. (indistinct) vairāgya. (indistinct) vairāgya.
Śyāmasundara: He sees that everything in the world, all nonego objects, all the objects of the world are seeking to realize themselves. Everything is seeking to realize itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes, seeking, therefore if you take advantage of a perfect person, then that seeking will be (indistinct) very soon understand. Otherwise he'll hover in the oblivion. That's all. Our process is we are seeking but we are going to the Absolute Person, Kṛṣṇa, and you are taking the knowledge, immediately. That saves our time. If you are seeking, considering your (indistinct) very great scholar, research scholar, then you are misled. Our process is very nice. Therefore tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), the injunction is you must approach a bona fide spiritual master to make a short cut of the searching.
Śyāmasundara: Because everything is seeking to realize itself, that that means there is a moral order to...
Prabhupāda: Certainly.
Hayagrīva: In a very often-quoted passage Hegel writes, "God is only God insofar as He knows Himself. His self-knowledge is more over His consciousness of Himself in man and man's knowledge of God, a knowledge that extends itself into the self-knowledge of man in God."
Prabhupāda: That, if he accepts that, then why not man takes knowledge of God from God? Then his knowledge is perfect. Why he should speculate?
Hayagrīva: He considers man to be essential to God.
Prabhupāda: But he, he has accepted God as man...
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So to possess the knowledge of God, the best duty of man is to take knowledge from God about God. I know myself, that he says, that God knows Himself. So if God knows, that is natural. I know what I am. So if you take knowledge of me from me instead of speculating, that is perfect knowledge. So here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the God is explaining Himself. So if you simply take the knowledge given by God, that is your perfected knowledge of God. Why you are speculating? You are wasting time. Take the knowledge from God about Him, and then you have perfect knowledge. Why should you speculate? Suppose I am studying you, I am speculating, "Well, Hayagrīva may be like this, he might have so much money, he might have so much bank balance, he is living like that," this is speculation. But if I say, "Hayagrīva, what you are?" you say, "I have got this, I do like this," that is my perfect knowledge. Why shall I speculate?
Hayagrīva: Hegel.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So if he accepts God and he inducts a man, the man should take knowledge from God about God. The his knowledge of God is perfect. He should not speculate. And if he has no such source of taking knowledge from God, then his conception of God is also false. If he has got actually the conception of God, then he should take knowledge from God what He is. That is perfect knowledge. He was talking of Oriental knowledge. This is Oriental knowledge: they know who is God and they take knowledge from God about God. But here, Occidental, they speculate about God. What they will know about God? Whatever they speculate, that is imperfect, because he is imperfect.
Hayagrīva: He equates idea, reason, God, and the Absolute very much like the Greeks.
Prabhupāda: Everything is there, but if you take knowledge from God, then that is perfect, and if you make your own ideas—you do not take the ideas of God—that is imperfect.
Hayagrīva: He does say reason is also infinite form, that which sets this material in motion...
Prabhupāda: This is, this is, this is real reasoning, that "I am imperfect or limited. How I can speculate on the unlimited? So better let me learn from the unlimited about the unlimited." That is perfect knowledge.
Hayagrīva: One final point is that he sees the worship of animals and plants to be a form of pantheism. He refers to Indian religion...
Prabhupāda: No. But Indian, that he does not know; still he speaks. That is the most regretful situation.
Hayagrīva: Although Huxley was called...
Prabhupāda: Language is not the important. The education is important. A developed human being can take real education, while the animals are not able to take. That you can define. It is not the question of language. Knowledge can be imparted, in particular knowledge, a language, just like we are imparting Vedic knowledge in English. So it is not the language, it is the knowledge. But the animals cannot take the knowledge of God. That is their defective. But a human form of body or a human being, it doesn't matter in what language he speaks, but if the knowledge of God is properly imparted in him, then he can understand. The dog cannot understand. That is the difference.
Hayagrīva: So he does appear at least a little closer than Darwin, because Darwin didn't recognize any of this transmigration at all.
Prabhupāda: Darwin, he is all through. Everyone is more or less. Unless one has got the right knowledge... Why Darwin? Everyone is under false impression. Therefore our proposition is that you take right knowledge from the right person, Kṛṣṇa, then you are perfect. And if you go on speculating—you speculate in one way, I speculate in another way—it does not mean that we are intelligent person.
Hayagrīva: The, Huxley, it was Huxley who coined the word "agnostic," as the opposite of gnostic, of church history. The word gnostic is "one who follows in the gnostic tradition of church history."
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic, nāstika word is there, nāstika.
Hayagrīva: Gnostic.
Prabhupāda: Nāstika means who does not believe in the Vedas.
Purports to Songs
Tattva-darśī, one who has seen the things as it is. Go there and from him take the knowledge, not that one who is speculating. This is the process, Vedic process. Therefore it is called śruti. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Śravaṇam means hearing, kīrtanam means glorifying. Of whom? About Viṣṇu, not for anything else. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this point. When He was talking with Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya, Rāmānanda Rāya suggested various methods of self-realization. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not reject them. He said, "Yes, it is also nice, but you go farther above.
| Page Title: | Take knowledge (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 07 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=193, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 193 |