Expressions researched:
"table"
|"tableaus"
|"tablecloths"
|"tablecloths"
|"tablecloths"
|"tableness"
|"tables"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Temple. It was left on the table. Now no one can find it.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: No one knows where it is now. So she may have taken this 200 dollars.
Prabhupāda: Then it is guessed that she has taken?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is guessed that she has taken.
Allen Ginsberg: You have a farm now?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you'll forget everything. You'll be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Allen Ginsberg: We have a farm also now in upstate New York. There we have vegetarian table also in the farm. We have a cow, goats. But...
Prabhupāda: From economic point of view, if one man has got a cow and four acres of land, he has no economic problem. That we want to start. He can independently live any part of the world. Simply he must (have) one cow and four acres of land. Let the people be divided with four acres of land and a cow, there will be no economic question. All the factories will be closed.
Allen Ginsberg: Four acres, you think?
Prabhupāda: Four acres.
Allen Ginsberg: Maybe.
Prabhupāda: That I am instructing Kīrtanānanda, to show this example in New Vrindaban.
Guest: I told that... You have told...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Soul is changing body. Why you are talking of merging? You are changing body, you are individual. I am changing body. I may change to a dog's body, you may change to a demigod's body. That is going on. According to one's karma, he is changing body. Now, when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, this change of body will take place also, but that body will be spiritual. So long you get material body, you have to change, one after another, one after another, one after another. Just like if you have a cheap thing, it goes wrong, you have to purchase another new thing. But if you purchase a real, nice thing it will go, continue for good. Similarly, so long you are getting this cheap body, material body, you have to change. And as soon as you get the most valuable body, spiritual body, there will be no more change. Why don't you understand like that? So that you have to get. That is very simple. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ. One who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, he thinks that somebody is greater than Kṛṣṇa. But anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa as he is, immediately he gets that permanent body. Simply by knowing Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). Is it clear? Yes. So you have to do that. You have simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. The whole problem is solved. (Prabhupāda is pounding on the table, stressing points.)
Prabhupāda: They will be visible in due course of time.
Śyāmasundara: What he was telling me was that the table itself has a jīva soul, that the table is a person.
Prabhupāda: No no.
Revatīnandana: So that's what I was asking. 'Cause I said, "Does the table have a jīva soul?" I was trying to ask that question.
Śyāmasundara:That's what completely threw me off. I thought, "Oh..." That means the table is a person, this is a person, this is a...
Prabhupāda: A particular jīva soul was in that body. Then it is also proved that every jīva soul is individual. Although they are living combinedly, everything is individual.
Revatīnandana: Yes. He says because you can't see Him there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore matter means when our consciousness is covered to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is matter.
Śyāmasundara: I want to clear this up. Just like this table. It is full of millions of living entities, but there's not one...
Prabhupāda: Atom. Millions of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa says, "I am within the atom." So how you can say Kṛṣṇa is not there?
Revatīnandana: Now you were also telling me that Kṛṣṇa is in the atom as the jīva expansion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Not as plenary expansion.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Revatīnandana: Not as a plenary expansion, but a part of a plenary expansion.
Prabhupāda: A plenary expansion that is also. Jīva is also plenary expansion.
Prabhupāda: This brain will not accommodate. But as soon as the king is there you must know the king is with his ministers, secretaries, everything. How you can say the king is alone there.
Revatīnandana: You said also in the heart Kṛṣṇa is not alone. Every...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never alone. With all paraphernalia, all Vaikuṇṭha paraphernalia. That is acintya.
Śyāmasundara: But this body of a table, it's not an individual personality is it? There's not one jīva soul in charge of this table.
Revatīnandana: In other words the table itself is not a person, but within there are many persons.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As far as we know from sādhu-guru-śāstra. That's all. That is our understanding.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. We can't extend it any further by our own...
Prabhupāda: No. Don't try to extend also.
Śyāmasundara: Like that business about the soul in the table. I just completely changed everything we've done so far.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura said that "Whatever I heard from my guru, that is my life. That's all. Let me execute that."
Revatīnandana: That was semantics. That was word usage. That's why we got confused. And now I can clear up the confusion I stirred up. Thank you very much.
Haṁsadūta: But I have one more question Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: On the light.
Prabhupāda: No, that is cheating. That is not teaching, that is cheating. Just like the scientists said, "There was a chunk, and the creation took place, perhaps..." What is this? Simply cheating. It is not teaching, it is cheating.
Bob: Let me say what else you said this morning that was interesting. I asked him about miracles, and Prabhupāda said that only a fool would believe in miracles because... Let us say you are a child and an adult lifts this table. That's a miracle. Or you're a chemist, and you combine acid and base and make smoke, an explosion or whatever. To somebody ignorant, that's a miracle. And for everything there's a process. And so when you see a miracle, it's just ignorance of the process. So that only a fool would believe in miracles, and, you correct me if I say wrong...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Material life means when you desire to gratify your senses, that is material life. And when you desire to serve God, that is spiritual life. That is the difference between material life and spiritual life. Now we are trying to serve our senses. Instead of serving the senses, when we serve God, that is spiritual life. What is the difference between our activities and others' activities? We are using everything: table, chair, bed, this tape recorder, typewriter. So what is the difference? The difference is that we are using everything for Kṛṣṇa.
Bob: This I see. The devotees have said that the sensual pleasures that they have given up are replaced with spiritual kinds of pleasures. But see, I haven't...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual kinds of pleasure means when you desire to please Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual pleasure. Just like example, a mother is more pleased by feeding her son.
Bob: So what is honesty?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my question. (laughter) Real honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's property. This is honesty. Just like this is my table. If you want to take it away while going, is that honesty? No. So therefore the simple definition of honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's right. That is honesty.
Bob: So somebody who is honest will be in the mode of goodness. Would that be correct?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly. Because mode of goodness means knowledge. So if you know, if you're well conversant that "This table does not belong to me; it belongs to Swamiji," so you'll not try to take it away. Therefore one must know, be thoroughly well conversant; then he can be honest.
Prabhupāda: Just like children, they do not know what is government. They are satisfied with their eating, sleeping, playing, that's all. They have no other concern. But when one is grown up, he knows what is government. He has to abide by the state laws. Now you are grown up, if you violate the law "Keep to the right," you'll be criminal. But a child, if he violates the law, animal violates the law, he has no... But if a adult person violates the law, he'll be criminal. You cannot say, "I'm free." No. Law will not excuse. But if a children commits something... Suppose you, if you take something from my table, it is for you criminal. But if a child takes something from my table, it is not criminal. In your country especially, if you enter my house or room without permission, that is criminal. Is it not? Trespass.
Śyāmasundara: Do you have another small table?
Guest (2): Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Or else we can take this one.
Satsvarūpa: So please come to the temple tomorrow, to take darśana. I know everyone works or is busy, but try to come at least in the evening and see this. As Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying, the name is not different than Kṛṣṇa. We chant on our big japa beads. The holy name is the same as Kṛṣṇa is in His form or in the picture or the same as His philosophy. And so these Deity forms, we don't consider them as marble Deities but as Kṛṣṇa Himself. People misunderstand. They think this is idol worship, that we are worshiping some idol, bowing down to idols. Same with the food, they don't understand. We offer food to the Deity. But Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "If you offer Me a little fruit or a leaf or water..."
Prabhupāda: So Śyāmasundara, you can invite all these gentlemen tomorrow.
Śyāmasundara: He is doing that now.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva. Just like you have got pearl necklace, and if it is woven in a thread. So all the pearls, they are resting on that thread. There is no question of good or bad. Everything is resting in God. There is no question of good or bad. Not that all good men simply rest on that thread. Whatever we see within our experience, everything is resting on God. There is another verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: (BG 9.4) "In the impersonal form, I am spread all over the manifestation, cosmic manifestation, and everything is resting on Me, but it is not necessarily I am in everything." That is the statement there. The definition of God, first of all, if you take this definition, as the root of everything, as the source of everything, however you like. It is the definition given by the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) the origin or birth or emanation of everything. Now you take anything and find out where is the original cause, then you come to God. Take anything on this table. Your self, your body. Everything you take, if you go on searching, searching, searching, what is, where is the origin, then you come to God. That is the perfect definition of God, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) the origin or source of everything. What do you think?
Ambassador: Oh, I'm very impressed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: Yes, well that's right, and I'm so grateful to you for that lovely book. That's a beautiful book. I'll keep it out here on my table. Maybe I will send... You know, I had a young man here that was having trouble to extend his visa, and the government said to him, "What are you here for?" He said, "I am here to find myself." They said I should have sent... He's a hippie...
Mrs. Keating: This would be perfect.
Ambassador: So I said, they said when they were in last time, you should have sent him to us, which I would do again, because it's...
Guru dāsa: Then that hippie will become happy.
Mrs. Keating: Will become happy, yes.
Ambassador: Well, Your Divine Grace, thank you very much for stopping to see us.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Pañca-draviḍa: The last situation I had heard was that everybody was agreeable, that Nair himself was agreeable and that everything was proceeding, but it was in the hands of the Municipality and that was going so slow, and that Nair himself, he is saying so many dubious things on the outside, but in complete agreement once you step into a room with him. So we are not so much sure. It's more or less in the hands of the Municipality, but who knows what is going on behind the table. Something like that. (break)
Prabhupāda: Take a little breakfast?
Gurudāsa: They said you wanted to see me?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh, about that typing. (break) How we have secured that house in London.
Gurudāsa: Oh, jaya! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Berkshire Palace.
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got. The bird has got also certain qualifications. What is this. You cannot jump over like that. Just see how it is doing, a small bird. He has got complete sense how to protect. He's doing his business. So everyone has got some qualification, by nature's gift. One bird can go seven miles away and he can see where is his food. You cannot see half a mile even. What is the value of your eyes in comparison to that bird? There are so many wonderful things done by the animals, without any scientific knowledge, so-called scientific knowledge. So scientific knowledge for material comforts, that knowledge is there even in the birds and beasts, for material comforts. They know how to do it. Why these laboratories? There is no need of. Because if your knowledge is for these four things, eating, sleeping and mating, then what is the value of such knowledge? The bird will also die after eating, sleeping. You'll also die after eating, sleeping. Then where is the advancement of knowledge. You have not improved in any way than the birds and the beasts. You cannot check death. The bird also cannot check death. Then where is the advancement? Simply the bird is finding out food by the beaks, and you eat on a table, chair. Therefore you are advanced? You are also eating, he's also eating. He's eating his own way. You are eating in his own way. Does it mean advancement? But when death comes, the bird will be also kicked out, you'll be also kicked out. Then where is your advancement.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). (People enter room, pause, moving tables, etc.) Take prasādam. Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam. ("Prasādam should be eaten as soon as one obtains it.") Take.
Śyāmasundara: You must be hungry after all that hard work. (Eating, etc.)
Prabhupāda: This is halavā?
Devotee: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's bananas and cream. Everything.
Prabhupāda: Hmmm.
Śyāmasundara: The cream in England is excellent. (pause) (break)
Prabhupāda: So if the monarch becomes ideal, it will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: No, you can keep it here.
Revatīnandana: Perhaps if you keep your case there.
Sir Alistair Hardy: Oh. My case, yes.
Revatīnandana: You can use it like a little table.
Sir Alistair Hardy: Thank you. Such a huge... Oh, now can I have... I'd like some of this. Put that down. Put that down.
Pradyumna: You know the Indian style of...
Sir Alistair Hardy: I must follow you, how you eat this. I don't know how you...
Prabhupāda: Anything you can eat, as you like. There is no restriction.
Prabhupāda: So if he gets understanding from God, how there can be any defect? If he's not getting direct understanding from God, that means he's still imperfect.
Mālatī: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: Need some table.
Devotee: I have some kind of table.
Śyāmasundara: Can we use this table?
Devotee: I have some... (Sounds of setting up prasādam?)
Prabhupāda: Just like...
Lord Brockway: Thank you very much.
Mālatī: Thank you for waiting. I'm sorry it's a little late.
Prabhupāda: This is... These European and American girls, they have learned to prepare... (some background noise) Oh, you have prepared for me? No, I don't want any more.
Śyāmasundara;: No, this table is too small.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (devotees talking as they set up tables for prasādam) Oh, two tables? That's all right. That's nice.
Prabhupāda: Everything... In this table, whatever is there, it is created. The table is created. The light is created. Everything is created by somebody. So how I can deny this fact, that somebody has created the whole universe? If you say, "It has comes automatically, dropped," that is rascaldom. It must be accepted somebody has created. So who is that somebody? You have not created. The Americans have not created, the Englishmen have not created, or I have created, you have created, but we can understand that somebody has created. So who will be the proprietor? I shall be proprietor or the creator shall be proprietor? Who shall be the proprietor?
Dr. Inger: Creator. Of course.
Prabhupāda: Creator. So why you are claiming other's property as "my own"? "This is my country. This is my country." And we are so rascal and we are making United Nation.
Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient. (break) ...anumāna-pramāṇa. Anumāna, hypothesy, and pramāṇa, śāstra-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. evidences from the Vedas. Evidences from authorized persons. And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. There are varieties. Ānanda, ānanda, pleasure means varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without varieties, just like we prepare from grains, sugar, ghee, hundreds of varieties. If you simply give grain, ghee and sugar, it will not be enjoyable. But the same thing, you prepare in varieties and give you a plate, oh, you'll say, "Oh, so nice thing." The ingredients are the same. Grains, ghee and sugar, that's all. Similarly, this material world, the ingredients are the same. Namely five gross elements and three subtle elements, finer. Earth, water, air, fire, sky. These are gross elements. And mind, intelligence, ego these are finer elements. Combined together this material world has come. The brain behind is a living entity. Just like we are using these ingredients, these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, sky, making this building, making this table, making this chair, vase, so many things, harmonium, pictures, book. So the ingredients are the same, but my brain is working in different varieties. My brain or your brain. Human brain. Similarly this material cosmic manifestation is full of varieties. The brain behind it is Kṛṣṇa. That is stated, you have read our Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest: I've taken a look.
Guest: And inside these people doing this work, is it Kṛṣṇa? Or what is it makes them do the work?
Prabhupāda: No. The soul is a living being. So nature is supplying material and he's molding in different forms. Just like earth is not man's creation. Earth is God's creation, or it is product of God's energy. But we are using this earth and molding in different forms, different pots, different dolls. So ingredients are supplied by God. Nature means God's energy. We simply handle them. We cannot produce anything, we transform only. Just like this iron, we cannot produce iron. It is gotten from the mine, iron bar. Now we have transformed into different forms. Because we have got creative energy like God, not very great, in very minute quantity. So as God has created by His intelligence, the whole universe—we are creating this table, this pillow, this harmonium—that's all. What you are finding?
Śrutakīrti: I was just looking at that verse again.
Prabhupāda: Why not created? I see that your mother became pregnant and you were created and you are... Why you say... Your natural... Your mother did not become naturally pregnant. Everything is created. This table is created. You cannot say that it has come naturally.
Karandhara: This form may be created or it exists at a certain state of time, but the energy is never created.
Prabhupāda: So that also we admit. That is another thing. But the... Therefore we have got two departments, the spiritual world and the material world. In the material world everything is created. In the spiritual world, not created. It is ever-existing. And anything which is created, that is annihilated.
Karandhara: The energy is not annihilated.
Prabhupāda: No. That we also accept. But that energy belongs to whom?
Karandhara: Well, they say that because it was never created, it doesn't have to be created.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This material world is created. That you cannot say, "It is not created." Everything we see in our front, everything is created.
Devotee: They don't pray God, who has made all of this.
Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table." So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin. That's all. Such fools are there. You see. It is simply exploiting the innocent public of their money, hard-earned money. That's all. And if you go to such foundation that "Give us some money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, printing these books," "No, no. We are not interested in religion. We are for scientific improvement, glycerin."
Prabhupāda: Yes, this drunkard. Especially the drunkard, they collide.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: I think that's the second.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: But the, this one is the choking on meat at dinner table and dying, suffocating. It's very wide-spread. And in restaurants, while they're eating meat, they get so into eating, they want to swallow to eat the next piece. So they, before chewing enough, they have a big lump of meat in the mouth, and they swallow and they choke. They get caught. So in many big restaurants, they have these fancy forks like this that if somebody's choking, they go to the table, a very nice waiter, and he sticks the thing down the throat and pulls out the meat. Then the person can continue eating. But it is a very high cause of death in the world. They choke on meat.
Prabhupāda: Just like dog. Dog, if you give...
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Because the teeth are not made...
Prabhupāda: ...meat. (makes sound) Like dog. Yes.
Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.
Hṛdayānanda: Room and board and training.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This poverty. Why there is poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life. So-called education. Sitting idle in the table and chair, and talking all gossips, nonsense, and sleeping. They have been trained up in this way, śūdra.
Hṛdayānanda: So they should be trained to rise early and so on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if you keep healthy, then you will naturally rise healthy, er rise early in the morning. But if you... Because you have lost all, what is called? Stamina?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training.
Prabhupāda: Then how he was killed? That is the proof. Otherwise, how was he killed?
Yogeśvara: Every place we go, we see Indian's homes, pictures of Gandhi on their tables.
Prabhupāda: You, you have not visited everyone's house here. The three, four house you have visited. That's all.
Bhagavān: You haven't even been to India. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Don't talk all this nonsense.
Bhagavān: We can keep horses? We can use horses?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, that is kṣatriya. If one does not obey the social structure, he must be forced. That is the idea of slaves. The śūdras who do not work properly, he must be forced. Nobody should remain unemployed. The śūdras are inclined. If he has got something to eat, he will not work. You see? Then again he will work when his need, eating. This is śūdra mentality.
Prabhupāda: So how you became from zero?
Pṛthu Putra: No, he don't say he is different. He says, "Now I am myself." (French) His point is that he doesn't think that man is more important than the flower or the table. It's all the same.
Prabhupāda: Then why he is anxious for man's suffering? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the man is there. The suffering is there.
Prabhupāda: No. So why he is bothering about suffering? He was zero, beginning, and he will be zero and now he is also zero. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says there is two aspect. There is this aspect: everything is zero. But there is another aspect. There is a man who is always searching after to find the solution to his problem.
Prabhupāda: Why solution? He will automatically become zero. Then finish everything. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress. In the Bhagavad gītā it is stated: yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas.
Prabhupāda: That is... That is all right. Light is here also, not only...
American Man: Light is here. Light is this table.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
American Man: Light is this floor. Light is everything.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Then why do you say that you do not know God? You know God is light.
American Man: Because for me, God is merely a word. How can you explain God with a word?
Yogeśvara: I think you've been defeated.
American Man: No, no, I don't think I've been defeated.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then that servant, while he was employed, there was an urgent business. The rich man said that "Tomorrow I am going. You must come and go with me." So suppose he was to go at ten o'clock. Then at nine o'clock a messenger came: "You are ready?" "No, just I am cooking. Then I shall finish my cooking, take my meals and then we shall go." So he was very angrily inquired, "So why you did not...?" "No, I am cooking." "Where you are cooking?" Now, he has three bamboos, and on the top there was a pot, rice pot, and he was giving fire here. So that rich man came and saw. "What kind of cooking this is?" "No, there is heat. It is going on." (laughter) "So how you do this, such a nonsense." "No, if the temperature from the lamp on the roof of the sky could protect that man, why not it will be cooking?" Then he could understand this is the reply. So that man was paid. So this kind of progress, cooking, three miles above, a pot, a little fire, it will not act. There must be proper adjustment of cooking. Then you can cook food and eat. A little smoke or little fire and three miles away the cooking pot, in this way, cooking is useless attempt. One must be serious to cook. There is method how to cook. If you don't adopt that method and if you cook in your whimsical way, you will never be able to eat. If you say, "I shall cook in my way," and if you adopt that process, will it help? Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ... So what are these things? (break) ...on the floor. But this instruction was for you, that you are keeping. I never keep my Bhāgavata on the floor. I keep always my head. So better you take it. (laughter) I keep my Bhāgavata either on this table or on the head and never on the floor. So that is for you. (laughter) Yes. Then next? (laughter) Yes. It is good, nice.
Guest (1): Well, that's precisely the point. What is the purpose? What is the sense, if there is any, or does the very question make sense?
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless understand what is that "anything..." First of all, you have to understand what is that "anything." Anything... Just like this book, this table, this bell, the electric they are so many things. So you can take any one of them; that is anything. What is your idea of anything?
Guest (1): Oh, reality. Material, external, reality to our ego, our internal reality as well.
Prabhupāda: Internal reality and external reality?
Guest (1): Both. For me, the word "anything" covers both.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that also we understand, "anything." There are so many varieties of things, and you can take any one of them. That is "anything." But your question should be, "Wherefrom these things coming?" That should be the proper question.
Prabhupāda: I am not only conscious, but the consciousness depends on me. Because I am there, therefore consciousness... So I am nitya. This is the proof of nitya, that many changes have taken place, but the changes, the phenomenal changes, they have gone out. They are no more existing. Therefore they are not nitya. Just like dream. At night I saw one dream, but the dream is no more existing, but I remember that last night I saw the dream. Therefore I am nitya. And the dream is anitya. The dream is anitya. Similarly, this phenomenal world, when I am not sleeping, but I am so-called awakened, so I am seeing. I am seeing you, I am seeing the table, this book, you see, but... (aside:) Don't... But when I am asleep I forget all these things. I forget. I am in a different world. I am seeing different things. So this is also dream, and the dream at night, that is also dream. But I, the seer of this dream and that dream, I am the eternal.
Prabhupāda: Our position is—I have already explained—that we are all imperfect. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the perfect. So God is perfect, or Kṛṣṇa is perfect, so we have to receive knowledge from Him. Then our knowledge is perfect. And so long we shall speculate, that is not perfect because you are speculating with imperfect instruments, what is the use? If I want to cut this table, I must have proper instrument. If I want to cut this table with this book, "Let me cut this," how it will be possible? You must know that for cutting this table it requires this instrument.
Professor: Yes, they say that the only way to acquire knowledge is through śabda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabda-pramāṇa.
Professor: And I think other pramāṇas will be also possible according to those...
Prabhupāda: Just like I am trying something, and some experienced man says, "Do like this." This is śabda-pramāṇa. The śabda-pramāṇa, one who knows, he says, "Do like this." The "Do like this," means śabda, sound, and it enters your ear, and you do adjustment.
Prabhupāda: And who is thinking in that way...? We are thinking like that. Keep it covered.
Paramahaṁsa: On the table there?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Child talking and Prabhupāda says something in Hindi) Dr. Ghora (?), you can say. The aim should be saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. But if we don't care for this proposition... They do not know what is God, neither we don't want to satisfy Him, "He may be satisfied or not satisfied. Let us go on with our business." (Hindu)
Indian man (1): A lot of dangers will be there. We'll be putting ourself into trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in trouble. Even last war, when the trouble was too much, they began to go to the church. Even Churchill. And one gentleman—he is my Godbrother in Germany—he told me, after this war many German men and women became atheist. Everyone went to the church and prayed. Especially women prayed for return of their husband, brother, father. And nobody returned. So they thought, "There is no God. So forget about all these things." People became atheist. So this risky civilization is going on. They don't want to know what is God, neither they want to satisfy Him. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the opposite, that "Here is God. You satisfy Him." That's all.
Young man: All the religions that have been taught to me have not given me a clear view of God, a clear concept. They didn't seem to know it themself.
Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?
Dr. Movebhed: Is that really the right conclusion?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the right conclusion, that God is also Supreme Being and we are also being, so as being, we are one, but as Supreme, He is different. That is the right conclusion. You are not Supreme Being. You are being controlled by the Supreme Being. You cannot say that you are independent. Therefore you are not Supreme. You are dependent on Him. Eko hi yasya vidadhāti kāmān, bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He maintains. Just like this coconut. God has given us this coconut fruit to enjoy or to live upon it. But I cannot create this coconut. It is not possible. Therefore, for my maintenance He has sent this coconut. So He is maintainer; I am maintained, although He is being; I am also being. He is maintainer being; I am maintained being. This is the right conclusion. No scientist... He can talk so many things about this coconut, but unfortunately he cannot manufacture this coconut. That is not possible. He can manufacture something subordinate-chairs, table—but not this coconut. Not possible.
Carol: Would the intellect be helpful in knowing God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you have got the necessary intellect, then you are no better than the animals. The animals have no intellect to understand God, but the human being has got that intellect. That is the distinction between animal and human being. (break) Sleeping, the human being also sleeps; they also sleep. Then sex enjoyment: the human being also enjoy, and the animals also enjoy. And protection from fear or becoming fearful—the human being is also fearful and arranges for protection, and the animal also does. So far the primary necessities of life, that is equal in animal and human being. But the human being has a special intellect developed than the animals that he can understand what he is, what is God, what is this cosmic manifestation, and what is the aim of life, how we should conduct. These things are prerogatives for the human being. The animals have no such prerogative. So if we do not utilize these special intellectual activities, then we remain animal. We do not make any development. So at the present moment they are improving the method of primary necessities of life—eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are thinking the dog is eating on the floor; if we can eat on table, chair and nice dish, that is advancement of civilization. They are thinking like that. The dog is sleeping on the floor, and if we sleep in very nice apartment, very decorated, that is advancement of civilization.
Prabhupāda: Just like a child. Child assumes that my father is perfect. So, actually a father should be perfect at least for the child. So whatever the father, mother, gives him knowledge, that is perfect. Father says, "My dear child, this is called 'table.' " The child does not know what is table, but he understand from his father. He says, "This is table." So when the child says it is table, it is fact. This is perfect. He may be imperfect, his child, but because he is repeating the perfect knowledge of his father, whatever he is speaking is perfect. Because he has received the knowledge. Actually the child inquires from the father, "Father, what is this?" Father smiles at child, "This is called bell. If you push your hand in this." Then you get the perfect knowledge. He tries it. Oh, it is coming. The knowledge is there. He may be imperfect, but the instruction he has received, that is perfect. Similarly, if you get instruction from the perfect, then your knowledge is perfect, and if you receive knowledge—just like anthropology—from an imperfect person, Darwin, then whole thing is imperfect. So why should we waste our time in imperfect knowledge?
Carol: Because there are few people around us who think they are perfect.
Prabhupāda: The solution is there. They won't take it. Solution is there, that everyone produce your own food. There is so much land; utilize it. The solution is there. No. They want to sit down on the table, chair, in a very nice compartment, and making solution. They won't go.
Amogha: He was saying that your solution was too simple. He said that people will not accept it because it is too simple.
Prabhupāda: That is his ignorance. They will say it is primitive. That is the only solution. According to the Vedic system, you cannot use anything which you cannot produce. Suppose this we are using, but according the Vedic system we should not use it because I cannot produce it. Then the whole solution is there. Nobody will manufacture this because there will be no customer. If I refuse this use of this machine, thinking that "I cannot produce it; I should not use it," then where is the customer? The so-called industry will automatically stop, and he has to go to the village outlying.
Prabhupāda: Another rascal. That is the difficulty. The world is full of rascals and demons. And they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "A blind man is leading other blind men."
Devotee (1): Instead of using the land to grow potatoes and watermelons, they're simply using it to build more offices for tables and chairs to study the situation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (pause) Life will be more more dangerous in this Kali-yuga. People will starve. And they... It is already began. The hippies are going to the forest. This will be the whole world situation. Everything will be chaotic.
Amogha: But if they actually go to the forest, then that will be one step.
Prabhupāda: No, it is disappointment. It is simply disappoint... That is not solution. But people will do that. When the one is mad he doesn't know what to do—"Let me go to the forest." Achinna dāra-draviṇaṁ gacchanti giri-kānanam, it is said. Giri means mountain, and kānanam means forest. Giving up their hearth and home... They are already giving up the home, wife, children, and going away. Everybody doing that.
Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful. It is sinful. According to Vedic conception, these four things are sinful activities, four pillars. Just like four pillars, the legs of this table, similarly, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling are the four legs of sinful life.
Guest (1): What do you consider illicit sex?
Prabhupāda: Illicit sex means animal life. The marriage is in the human society, not in the dog society. So if one has illicit sex, that means he is no better than dog.
Guest (2): I don't quite understand that. Did you say that illicit means sex between people who are not married?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is allowed only married couple. And that is also only for begetting child.
Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago it was composed by Vyāsadeva. (break) ...only for the Juhu Beach so many hotels are being maintained. Even this Holiday Inn, they have also...
Gurukṛpa: Juhu Beach is a big beach.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. (break) ...I told you, in my childhood I was consulting the time table, "What is the fare of Jagannātha Purī and Vṛndāvana?" (chuckles)
Gurukṛpa: You said it was two rupees.
Prabhupāda: No, not two rupees. Jagannātha Purī at that time was four rupees, four annas or one anna. And Vṛndāvana was six rupees.
Gurukṛpa: Six.
Prabhupāda: Six rupees from Calcutta. So I was dreaming "When I get this four rupees or six rupees, I shall go."
Prabhupāda: Not toast even. (laughter) Dry loaf? Without any taste, without any value. That also in his table. He cannot go to the... He's busy working. So this is ass. He does not think that "I am working so hard, I am earning so much money. What benefit I am taking? A glass of tea and a loaf? For this I am working so hard? I can get this without any work. Anyone will offer me this glass of tea and loaf. Why I am working so hard?" That sense he hasn't got. Therefore he is ass. Everyone you will see. They are working so hard, they have no time. But what they are enjoying? They are not enjoying even more than ordinary man. But he has no sense, "So for this much benefit I am working so hard?" Therefore he is an ass. A philosopher at least thinks that "Why shall I work so hard for this, only a glass of...?" So therefore he is a little better than these karmīs. Karmī, jñānī. And they are restless because they are falsely thinking that they will get some benefit. They have some aspiration, ambition for getting some benefit. The karmīs they are trying that "I will have so much bank balance, 300,000,000's." He is satisfied to see the bank balance.
Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. If anyone wants to take advantage of it, he can take. We have got fifty books like this. Those who are interested in the science and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can read all these books. Otherwise, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, That will also help. The human civilization means everyone shall try to become first-class man. This is human civilization, not to remain like animals. That attempt is lacking now. Here the civilization is that the dog is jumping or running, and human being is running in a motor car, and he is thinking he is more civilized than the dog. But the business is running. That's all. The dog is having sex on the street, and the human being is having sex in a very nice decorated apartment and therefore he is civilized. But the business is the same. The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense.
Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it. Just like a rich man's son. Without any, his labor, he possesses the father's immense property. He wants to renounce it. And the poor man is trying to possess it. These two classes of men are working. One is trying to possess, and the other is trying to renounce. There is no other third group.
Upendra: Because they make all the milk into ghee and distribute it. And vegetables... I heard that at the temple that they use powdered milk. In Philadelphia I questioned the... That carpenter who made your table? He (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Why powdered milk if there is sufficient milk?
Upendra: I don't know. I can't say firsthand, but from the man who lived there, one of the householders who lived there, he said powdered milk...
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Devotee (1): I have heard that.
Prabhupāda: No. This is not good. Ghee should be prepared where there is no more use. The Indian village, simply by keeping cows, they... Just like Nanda Mahārāja was keeping cows. Similarly there are many villages. So the system is: they have got a big pan, and whatever milk is collected, put into that pan. It is being warmed. So they drink, the whole family members. They drink milk whenever they like. So whatever milk remains at night, they have to convert it into yogurt. The next day they use milk and yogurt also, as he likes. Then, after converting the milk into yogurt, still, it remains. It is stocked. So when there is sufficient old yogurt, they churn it and then butter comes out. So they take the butter, and the water separated from the butter, that is called whey? Whey, yes. So they... Instead of dahl, they use this whey, for capati. It will be very healthy and tasty. And then the butter they turn into ghee.
Prabhupāda: So that is the difference. First of all one has to understand that he is neither Indian nor American nor English. But if you go on pushing on national movement, where is the chance of understanding that you are not this body? Just like our movement, we never say anything national. We simply state that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul."
Dr. Patel: Gandhiji, when he went to one first round table conference in London, and he had to confront those women, I mean the wives of the workers of the Manchester mills, he said that "We are poor." They say, "We are poor. We are suffering for the poor of India." Then he had to give this argument that "Poors of India are much poorer than what you are." So he is trying to..., I mean, take a...
Prabhupāda: So that is bodily concept.
Dr. Patel: But he was in politics.
Prabhupāda: Poor or rich, that is due to this body.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are not happy. Otherwise one who knows "I am Brahman," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā—he will be happy always. That has become fashion. "Table chair brahma-jñāna," sitting on the table-chair, smoking and talking of Brahman. "Armchair brahma-jñāna." Although Kṛṣṇa is giving information, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), so they do not make further progress, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param, to achieve that platform of bhakti. Therefore it is as good as no knowledge. These will be the symptoms of brahma-jñāna, na śocati na kāṅ..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. If they have got brahma-jñāna, then why they should distinguish? Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, so he is designated as mahātmā, but why he was against the Englishmen, to drive them away? That is not brahma-jñāna. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. They are as good. As these white people, they do not give any chance to the other people, so similarly, Mahatma Gandhi also, he wanted that "These white people should go away." So what is the distinction? The same knowledge. "You want me ... to drive me away; I want to drive you away." So what is the distinction between you and me? The one dog is barking at another dog; another dog is barking, another dog. That's all.
Prabhupāda: No, no, other books, they are not...
Mahamsa: Other books were there. They were on the book table. There was a book table.
Indian man (4): Where it is?
Mahamsa: Many people were purchasing books. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Prominent place. (Hindi) Keep in prominent place so that others can see. And any book which is not in stock, you can note down his order so that you can send him later on.
Indian man (5): He will come every day.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (5): Mostly he approaching every member.
Prabhupāda: No, recently we have published very important book, Nectar of Instruction. For common man it is very nice. (break) Yesterday's lecture you liked?
Hariśauri: That's why the bowl is there. That's what I intended to do, but I have to keep it away from the table.
Prabhupāda: The principle should be that you should not leave remnants of food. As soon as it is used, it should not be used more. Otherwise it is not possible to give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). I am eating something not very superior, but if I get the chance of eating something superior, then I give up this inferior. So there is no question of making it vacant or void. To fill up the place with better thing.... So when you think of Kṛṣṇa, then you forget māyā. Otherwise you are entrapped with māyā. Why Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto? Mām eva ye prapadyante. This is wanted. As soon as you become anyābhilāṣī, then it becomes difficult. Where is that knife? Give me one amroot(?). Cut into pieces and get...
Prabhupāda: I have seen in New York. Many tenants, they leave their whole possession and go away. I have seen it. And for the landlord it becomes a problem, how to cleanse this. I have seen it. All table, chairs, bedding, scattered in this way, and they went away. I have seen it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Colorado I convinced this one boy to join us. He was a musician, the leader of a band. So I only talked to him for a few minutes but he became convinced very quickly. So I asked him, "You're a musician. You have some instruments?" because these instruments are very valuable. He said, "Yes, I have some." I said, "Well, you should give them to Kṛṣṇa because everything that you give, then you'll get benefit. Even if sinfully you got these things previously, now everything will be turned to a positive, good use." He said, "Well, the thing is, my band, we're doing a program in the mountains, and they may be leaving with all the instruments."
Prabhupāda: Without touching them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is... Of course, we'll do this also. What about, like, all of these people coming? This is my point, that so many poor people are coming here. Practically they don't even have enough money to take care of their children properly. So whether we can make some verbal announcements and whether we can set up a little table at the prasādam pavilion that "Anyone who would like to enroll their sons in our school can do so"? Because many of these people can't take care of their children properly. I'm thinking when they see our boys they may want to give their sons.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they will give.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that a good program?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can get many... I think we could get many, many men that way.
Prabhupāda: The children, they are enjoying. In the morning they are... That is wanted.
Prabhupāda: Nitāicānda plus somebody very educated should be there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who do we have like that that speaks Bengali?
Bhavānanda: Subhaga. Oh, they love Subhaga. He preaches in the temple at the book table during the busy hours. So many people buy books, and all interested. He's very...
Prabhupāda: Subhaga. Subhaga make the chief of the reception. And Nitāicānda his assistant, and another, a foreigner.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāicānda is in charge of the building.
Bhavānanda: He has so much to do, anyway, Nitāicānda. Subhaga is best.
Prabhupāda: Subhaga and two foreigners.
Prabhupāda: Keep nice water, sitting place. They will take.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of sitting place? On the floor with mats, or benches and tables?
Prabhupāda: Benches, table will be nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better. Like in a South Indian house. The South Indian restaurants, they have those... Of course, those are fancy, like in Vṛndāvana. In the South Indian restaurant they always have a table with marble top. Then they put a leaf on it. Very nice.
Harikeśa: There is room down there. That big room can be used as like a restaurant.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where?
Harikeśa: The next floor down on the end, where they sometimes have class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda wants it up there where they sell the prasādam.
Bhavānanda: They will buy in some leaf cup and go next door and have a place to sit down and take it, and then water to wash their... Actually there's a pump. Everything is right there.
Prabhupāda: You will find such confectioner's shop, sitting place and eating.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The activities inside.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is the activity which concerns. In the university there is only activity of education, learning. And here, all the criminals are violating the laws, they are put together. But superficially they look the same room, same food, same office, same typewriter. So it is the question of understanding why it is called criminal department and why it is called university. So as soon as it is university department, that is good. The same building, the same dictaphone, the same typewriter, same table, same chair, when they are used for Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The same money, everything, it looks like that. Therefore they cannot understand. The nirviśeṣavādī and the śūnyavādī, they: "Spiritual means these things should be zero." They say it should be zero. "No table, no chair, no house, no, no, no, no..." But that is (laughs) ignorance. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. The things which are usable by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, if we give up them, prapañcikā, as material, that is foolishness.
Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, last night you were describing how people serve their dogs. And now, in the Western countries, they have restaurants where you can take your dog, and he sits at the table with you and they serve a meal for him. And they have catering services. You can call up, and they will bring a special meal to your dog, so he can eat at his home. They have beauty parlors for dogs, everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. (break) ...all the centers, then how many days it takes?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: To visit all of our centers in the world?
Prabhupāda: No, Europe, America? That is world round.
Prabhupāda: But you insist, so Kṛṣṇa, in disgust, says, "All right, do at your own risk. You rascal. You will not hear Me." That's all. I have given this example many times, that my son wanted to touch the table fan. Did I say it?
Rāmeśvara: I never heard it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, so, when he was only two years old, so the table fan was running, and the child, he wants to touch it. So I am: "No, don't touch." So, and he was.... So there was another friend, he was a doctor. He said that "Slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it. So he touched, "Tung." (sound imitation) Then I said, "Touch again?" "No!" (laughter) So it is like that.
Rāmeśvara: Oh. It is actually Kṛṣṇa's mercy...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no, same general goal.... You must speak.... If you say same general goal, everyone says, "This is also general goal, this is also general goal." You must specifically mention what is that.
Richard: Okay, that goal is happiness here on earth, and however you define happiness, security, well-being, food on the table, however you want to, and...
Prabhupāda: But if somebody says that "I don't require to go to church for happiness. I find happiness by drinking. Let me go to the brothel and drink," that is also happiness. You cannot say. How can you say, "I don't care to go to the church. I am getting happiness here."
Richard: I'm thinking of it in a larger sense than that.
Prabhupāda: Happiness must be happiness. It doesn't mean that because larger accepts something happiness, that is happiness. No. Happiness must be real happiness.
Prabhupāda: Hmm, yes.
Mādhavānanda: We could have tables and chairs on the grounds.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to do that. Better make it a doll exhibition. And give them prasāda free. Restaurant in the city, that is all right. Not here. Nobody will come to the restaurant from the city. That is not possible. But we give them free prasāda. (japa) (break)
Makhanlāl: ...Prabhupāda, you mentioned that soon there will not be so much use for automobiles. What will be our means of spreading the saṅkīrtana movement?
Prabhupāda: We shall walk. You'll have good exercise. (laughter)
Kīrtanānanda: This is a cutting table Śrīla Prabhupāda, here's is a diamond saw. When you cut marble you have to use water, so it automatically shoots water out.
Devotee: You can make the cut if you want to.
Prabhupāda: This is the marble? No.
Kīrtanānanda: This is a marble base, this is what they cut on. Just to make it flat, it has to be a perfectly flat table. This is part of the floor for your study room.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This is marble?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, this is all marble, but it is glued together in little pieces. Like inlaid. And this is the polishing room. (break) Take the rough marble and make it shine.
Prabhupāda: You have spent so much money. What is the price of this machine?
Prabhupāda: Therefore He is God. He's not dog like you, barking only and doing nothing. (Prabhupāda knocks on table or flooring) What is this stone?
Hari-śauri: Marble. It's a type of Italian marble, I think. They call it terrazzo. Something like that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's very soft underneath.
Hari-śauri: They often put this on the facings of buildings, big buildings.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Comes off on the fingers, very soft stone.
Hari-śauri: In Detroit temple, that stairway that goes up, this is the same marble, marble steps.
Prabhupāda: Move this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like this fan on at all, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: Earth, water, air, fire.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From there we want to include the, let's say this table, ninety-two..., what scientists call elements, this gold, silver, copper, all these elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is within earth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are thinking that not only earth, but the water, air.
Prabhupāda: In the earth, there is already water, air, ether, fire, everything.
Rūpānuga: From previous.
Prabhupāda: Earth is the reservoir of all elements. As you go from earth to water, one is minus. From water, you go to fire, one is again minus. In this way, when you go up, ether, there is only one. And earth contains all the five.
Prabhupāda: The definition of life they have given, resistance. If you want to come to kill me, I resist you. That is life. Everyone knows it.
Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's a quarter to nine.
Prabhupāda: That is life. If I want to cut this table it will not resist. But if you want to kill me, I'll resist. That is life. Where is the difficulty?
Dr. Sharma: No, the way we understand, there is no difficulty. The way scientists understand there is a lot of difficulty.
Prabhupāda: What is that scientist? What is their definition? What do they say?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Life is a..., they say the question "What is life?" you should not inquire. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... You keep yourself in darkness. You remain fool. That is scientific. So long you remain a rascal, it is scientific.
Prabhupāda: During Truman's?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are the kind of tables we want to put on the balcony. Remember I showed you that place, our patio on the third floor. So I want to put those kind of tables in the restaurant.
Rāmeśvara: Like a snack bar. (break) ...problems in New York is in the schools they cannot control the violence. The students are very violent. They sometimes fight their teachers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was going to school, I grew up in New York, here in Manhattan, twenty years ago probably, and sometimes there would be children's gangs, and they would come in and beat the teachers.
Prabhupāda: That is the... Killed, in the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our school one teacher was killed by such a gang.
Prabhupāda: Now he is realizing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because at Cross Maidan you were speaking very boldly that all these others are cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are cheating. Is there any meaning that you pay so many dollars and take the mantra? Mantra is such a thing for business?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this meditation magazine one of the things they sell, the special techniques is you take a ping-pong ball, ping-pong, you know, that table tennis? And you cut it in half and you place the two halves on your eyes, and then that is called samādhi. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Who has said?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you the picture when he brings the magazine. They show a person very seriously meditating on two halves of a ping-pong ball. You have to pay for it. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "On the second floor there is a store which attracts many visitors who want to buy Indian costumes, jewelry and the movement's books. Prasādam is served in the basement restaurant. Visitors eat at tables in the same area where monks had breakfast on the floor. The prasādam features Hindu dishes served in the compartments of plasticized paper mess trays." Then it goes on. Now there's another article about you. Why are they holding a kīrtana now?
Ādi-keśava: They're getting a kīrtana party together to go out on hari-nāma down at Times Square (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Hmm. What does he say?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. He thought that he has pointed out this dog.
Hari-śauri: They brought their dinner with them.
Tripurāri: Man cannot understand, but a little child can understand very easily. Just like one of our book distributors, Praghoṣa, when he was a young child they had a pet duck, the family, and one day the father killed the duck and put him on the table. They roasted the duck and put him on the table, but none of the children would eat. They became sick and they left. They would not eat. The father could not understand.
Hari-śauri: My father did that with a pet rabbit that I had as well. Came home from school one day and it was gone.
Prabhupāda: They are eating their own child...
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, we come from the lowest of the low. (in car)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the possibility of opening more than one temple in this city? Just like if there's a good building on the East Side, if we can manage, what about the possibility of that?
Prabhupāda: If you can manage, very good. In a city like New York you can have ten, twelve centers.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda: isn't it important to mold the activities of ourselves and also the children in coming to this movement; to mold them that so that we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (why) our gurukula is there. How these children are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, (indistinct), how they are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are doing the same thing, offering obeisances to the Deities, taking prasādam, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In the same way as his father is doing. So automatically he's being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Good association, that is required. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. We are keeping this house for association of devotees so that automatically they become Kṛṣṇa conscious by association. The most unfortunate position is that there is no education about future life, or the perfection of life. The education is the animal education: the animal (is) eating, we are eating. If we are eating on table, or nice place, nice chair, then we think we are advanced. But the business is the eating. Similarly sleeping. The dog is sleeping on the street, we are sleeping in good apartment, skyscraper building. They are thinking this is advancement of civilization. But actually the business is sleeping. Similarly sex life. The dog is having sex life on the street, we are having in a very nice apartment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There were a lot of reporters, and they said that next year... They told us next year they're going to have full television cameras. We're going to have to erect a news, er... What is that called? Press, not a table, but a platform where they're going to put their cameras, and their reporters will sit above the whole crowd. They want to cover it, full. They were very amazed to see such a gigantic festival in New York itself. They never imagined such a thing in New York.
Prabhupāda: The Christians cannot organize. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You saw them. The only thing they were carrying was one sign like this. The sign said "Turn or Burn." It means turn to Jesus or burn. Turn or burn, burn in hell. That's their conception of God. Either God or burn in hell. We could give you a good rest here, also, Prabhupāda, because it's very easy to not... If the devotees could see you on Sunday, just like in the old days in Los Angeles... I mean everything could be nicely done, and you could still visit the European centers when you finally return to India. I mean they are not making such a big thing that you couldn't come later on. Oh, boy.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Good determination.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bali-mardana's wife, Taittirīya devī, she was in charge of the sweet table. So she had about four or five sweets, they were all the same, but she made them somehow look different. So everyone was saying, "Oh, which one is which?" And she would say "Each one is different. You have to take one of every one." But they were all the same. So people had to buy two and three kinds. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: She is good saleswoman.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is very good. And Tripurāri, I watched him in action. One person came up and said "I want a Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.2." So he looked and said "We have 2.1.," and he said "I want 2." So he said "This is very close. 2.1 and 2.2 are very close to each other, and it's all absolute." In this way he made the man take one.
Prabhupāda: No, actually that is a fact. There is no difference, 2.2 and 1.
Bali-mardana: And then we had a life membership table with Gajahanta and Śravaṇānanda. The Indians were all coming, and there were chairs for them to sit down, and they were preaching to them life membership.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they had..., you know that little portable movie screen, you may have seen, it comes in an attache case.
Hari-śauri: Like Gargamuni's, he showed you in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Prabhupāda: A pump for, say, one hour, two hour.
George Harrison: You could use the water out of the lake, then nobody could really complain about that.
Jayatīrtha: That's how we'd have to do it, I think.
George Harrison: That probably wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't take the level down. How do you fill that up?
Mukunda: That's a natural watershed. This is the lowest place in the area in about four miles every direction. So we have all those underground water tables feeding it.
Prabhupāda: If there is rain then there is no scarcity of water. The water comes here. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Very good.
Bhagavān: Table is close enough?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is comfortable. These stones are not available in India. Maybe very costly. Italian.
Bhagavān: This is from Portugal. The white is from Italy. They have put the different marbles together, very expert.
Prabhupāda: Combination.
Bhagavān: They have also made your Vyāsasana.
Prabhupāda: That one. So this side, marble is cheaper?
Bhagavān: Yes, it's very..., it's not expensive.
Prabhupāda: Oh. They have done very nice this furniture. We cannot expect this furniture in India. They may make, but it will be very costly. (coughs) You bring one spittoon.
Prabhupāda: Bull
Devotee (1): Cow.
Bhagavān: This here, and the vegetable garden is up here.
Devotee (2): This is mung dahl, Śrīla Prabhupāda, mung dahl. And these are marigolds. We put them in the greenhouse because it gives a longer season. Then we'll have more flowers for the garlands for the Deities.
Bhagavān: These are all table grapes.
Devotee (1): They are melons, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You can see here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: There are melons also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotee (2): Here are flowers. This is a heater for the winter to keep the temperature up. We try to grow tomatoes for the Deities in the winter.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Unnatural, yes. What for smoking? What for drinking? How nicely they sit down on the ground and take prasādam. Why there is need of table, chair and these dishes and fork and knife and so on, so on? Why?
Harikeśa: It's hard to cut the meat. You need a good surface. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Our Bon Mahārāja, once I was eating in his festival and... He's a bara-sahib. So he has given fork and knife. (laughs) So I did not know, I do not remember even which way I took fork. So Bon Mahārāja began to criticize "You are going to foreign country you do not know which hand to take this fork and knife." So I told him, "I am not going to learn all these things. I am going to teach them something else, to forget it. (laughter) You went to learn all these things. But I am not going to learn anything."
Hari-śauri: They get a bit confused because God has to... Like that man last night was saying not even a blade of grass can move without God's sanction. So they think because God sanctions...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is so many times explained. Just like a child wants to do something. The father says, "Don't do it," I have said several times. Reluctantly, "All right, do it." I have given this example of my practical experience in 1925 or '26 when my son was two years old. There was a table fan, "I would like to touch it." And I said, "No, no, don't touch." This is child. So but it's a child. He again tried to touch it. So there was a friend, he said, "Just slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it, slowed the speed and he touched-tung! Then he would not touch. You see. So this sanction was given, "Touch it," reluctantly. Now when he gets experience and I ask him, "Touch again?" "No." So this sanction. All of us who have come to this material world, it is like that. Reluctantly. Therefore God comes again to inform these rascals that "Now you have tried so much, better give up this, come to Me again." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Sanction was given, certainly, and he has experience, very bitter, but still he won't... This is obstinacy. Dog's mentality. The father has come personally.
Prabhupāda: You can fix up a little fan, then this labor can be saved.
Caraṇāravindam: You would like electric fan or hand pulled. Hand pulled?
Prabhupāda: No no, electric. A small table fan. Just like in the railway carriage. Let them fix up. Small ceiling fan.
Hari-śauri: You can get very small ones that fasten on the front of motor cars on the inside for fanning the driver. Just a small unit.
Caraṇāravindam: I was wanting to, in the future, build you a very beautiful construction here.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all right.
Caraṇāravindam: You like this. I thought you would also...
Prabhupāda: This is made simple. It is very nice. Rather, you can... No, it is all right. There is no space. In India, on the roof, we allow to grow squash.
Prabhupāda: Who has gotten this idea? Harikeśa: I think Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. It's an exhibition room. Prabhupāda: Then they are breaking wall or what? Harikeśa: No, no, they're not breaking. They made a big door so that you can walk straight in from the outside. You saw that door yesterday. Now what they're doing is building shelves and bookcases. Prabhupāda: Hmm. That sound is disturbing. Harikeśa: Would you like them to stop it until you left? Prabhupāda: If stop then how their work will go on? They manufacture ideas and spend money. This is the difficulty. Everyone manufactures some idea. And break it, do it, dig it. Money is coming and they are spending it. They cannot adjust whatever is there. Big big ideas. Big big belly. And money we have to bring from America. "Give me one lakh, give me one lakh, 15,000. I make idea, you pay." So many rooms you can make showroom. Why breaking this door, breaking that door? Too many cooks spoils the broth. And repairing and, what is called, addition, alteration, will never stop. I do not know how to stop it.
Prabhupāda: Eggplant. And this banana. So whatever he's grown he takes in a basket, goes to the market, immediately sold. And they're all fresh. Collected in the morning, and it is sold by eight o'clock. All fresh vegetables. There was no export, there was no facility of transport. These rascals introduced transport. Big scale transport, this railway. There was no railway. So transport means this villager, instead of selling locally or one mile away, he will dispatch in Calcutta. The Calcutta people, they are sitting on table and smoking and printing paper money and exploit.
Haṁsadūta: We had this experience when we were traveling with our bus from Calcutta to Vṛndāvana. We would want to buy watermelon from people who were growing right on the bank of the river, and he would have huge piles. And he would say, "No, I'm not selling. I'm transporting these to Delhi, where one cannot get watermelon." He's getting five times the price he would get in his local...
Prabhupāda: And from Vṛndāvana, we have seen, they are exporting that drumbeats? Vṛndāvana?
Hari-śauri: Drumsticks.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Drumstick. So the transport is a dangerous thing.
Prabhupāda: At least I save doctors bill, (chuckles) I am always sick, but I never go to the doctor. Give me little nim, give me little this (sounds of hand striking table), that's all. Then what less expenditure we can make? As far as possible we do not go even to the doctor.
Hari-śauri: Well, It's because of these things, that they're wondering well then, what do we do with the money?
Prabhupāda: We spend for Kṛṣṇa. Just like spending it, lakhs of rupees in Bombay for Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, I agree.
Prabhupāda: Every month.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He's of my age. Not less. But he's after three, four wives. His business is to go from one wife's house to another wife's house and each wife's house, expenditure of ten thousand rupees per month. (chuckles) He's a very funny businessman. He has made his wife director and they take money. So to avoid income tax... So, huge expenditure. Each, one house. Income tax cannot say, "Why you are maintaining?" (indistinct) That is not their business. It is comparison. Just like Bhogilal, he's maintaining big, big establishment. So I became his guest for fifteen days. He wanted to stay. I stayed for fifteen days. I first, my requisition was that he you must give me exclusive typewriter for writing my books. So he gave me. And if I would have asked for typewriter he would have given. But I was working with my broken typewriter. I went to our Tīrtha Mahārāja in Māyāpur, that "You give me a room (Śrīla Prabhupāda taps on table) and a typewriter, (tap) and print my books. (tap) Give me some (indistinct) (tap). I join you."
Prabhupāda: In our childhood I saw. To go weekend to the garden and... Generally they go with family, and others, they go with prostitute. With prostitute they have got freedom to handle. The higher... And not only that, during marriage ceremony, high circle marriage ceremony, they would participate in drinking, even men and women. Otherwise, in India, woman drinking or taking meat is a horrible crime. And what to speak of smoking? That is most shameless. That was aristocratic, drinking and eating meat... The Bengali, they were the richer section because others, they were foreigners. They came to Calcutta and earned money. And the Bengalis, they had their aristocratic families, zamindaries, everything in their occupation. So Bengalis were richer section in Calcutta, and..., four, five big, big families. And now they are finished on account of this aristocracy. So one gentleman, he was Harendranatha Singh, very rich man, one of the richest men of Calcutta. He lost all his estate simply by this extravagance. Every evening his house is full with guests every evening, for... What is called? That table?
Girirāja: Billiards?
Prabhupāda: Billiard-playing or some exhibition of singing, and hundreds of men will gather.
Gurudāsa: And it was a trick. And they came around the fire, and then we had saṁsāra prayers, and then I said, "Now stay here and chant." So they chanted. Then I gave class. Pandal is simple. I have not spent elaborately on it.
Prabhupāda: No, why? There is no need.
Gurudāsa: And we're having display, book table, membership table, and cinema is showing at night.
Prabhupāda: So how people come?
Gurudāsa: Some people come, but I think once we start our saṅkīrtana and leaflets... The mela officials said, "We put you there because you will draw, and others will not. People will want to come to you, so they will make an effort to come to you."
Prabhupāda: But there is easy way to come?
Gurudāsa: It's not that difficult. It's just a little distant. Some people were coming. Cars can come also. If they want to come, they can come. It's not far, but it's not so close. I wanted to give you a proper picture. I didn't want...
Prabhupāda: No, our former camp, last time...? So this is not so good?
Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on.
Pṛthu-putra: Because I went to some universities. They have big, big universities in Cairo and in every places in North Africa, because now they try to be educated. The white Africans, they have some intelligence to understand to a certain extent philosophy, because when I was talking about the Bhagavad-gītā, when I showed the table of contents, they more or less agreed to take interest in it because they didn't see anything specific about another religion, another God. They were seeing the titles like "Confidential Knowledge," "Transcendental Knowledge," "Karma-yoga," "Jñāna-yoga." They are very interested about knowing these things.
Prabhupāda: That is good the first, beginning, let them come. Let them sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasāda. In Iran we are doing that. Gradually it is becoming interesting. You had been in our Iran, Tehran?
Prabhupāda: They were unable. Neither they have got idea of aristocratically, how to live aristocratically. You won't find in any one of my Godbrothers a place like this. This is aristocratic. This is Indian aristocracy. Table-chair is not aristocratic. This is more comfortable. And cheap also.
Hari-śauri: If they saw somewhere like Detroit they'd be... If they saw the Detroit place then they'd really...
Prabhupāda: Detroit?
Hari-śauri: For aristocratic living.
Brahmānanda: Our temple in Detroit is very opulent.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is aristocratic house. You have seen it?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Before purchasing we went to see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is aristocratic house. They... Formerly, either Indian or American, Europe, aristocratic was the same—big, big rooms, very decorated, woman's quarter different, men's quarter different. No man can enter into woman's... Lavatory house, different; cooking house, different. This was Calcutta aristocracy. Those houses are now gone. No attached bathroom. The... Because it was service, how it can be attached bathroom? So they... A separate house, big house, only for passing stool. And if possible, a lake within the house. Aristocratic family, they would have lake within the house for using water.
Prabhupāda: There is difference, and therefore you have no brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The body itself is active, not that there is something in the body making it active. The blood, the brains—this is part of the body.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the position of this body? Active... Just like this table is not active.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It has no brain. No mind.
Prabhupāda: So then we have to accept that the body has got mind in the body. So that is material or something else?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Material.
Prabhupāda: Material. Then why don't you replace it? Replace it. Material things can be replaced. Just like motor stops, so you go to the gas house and repair. You cannot do it?
Prabhupāda: What is the special feature of restaurant?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't figured that out. I know what it is though. The special feature is this, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's a number of things. One thing, there's no other place in Vṛndāvana where you can sit in such a good atmosphere. That room is very large. The tables are first class, marble. There are very nice decorations, and the service is very good. And they serve ice water. And the prasādam is also better than at the Jaipuria guesthouse or most of the other guesthouses. And it's very inexpensive, four rupees for as much as you want to eat, palatable. And it's right in our own guesthouse. The people live here, and then they don't have to go anywhere. They just walk down to the dining room, and they get very good prasādam, good service, inexpensive, good atmosphere. It's become a very popular place. But it's too hot for me. I have difficulty eating the sabji because it's very spicy, but I think it's liked by the Indian people.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, in New York, that is one of their complaints, the Indian people, that we don't cook spicy enough. Too bland for their palate. And we're not accustomed to that so much, hot spices. They like.
Prabhupāda: Without spices, Indians should not cook.
Prabhupāda: Multi-story building. Why people should pay? Now Bombay have got many multi-story building; therefore that demand is reduced. But still, you have to pay in important place, pagri or underhand. What is called?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bribe.
Prabhupāda: Bribe is very bad word. "Under table." (chuckling)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Under the table. Unofficial.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mean I am paying on the table hundred rupees and under table two hundred rupees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think you know everything spiritual and material.
Prabhupāda: Hm? So my fear is that after training our men so much, if he's lost, that's a great loss. Then future of society becomes very hopeless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the principle is that if a householder has outside employment and can pay, then he can live inside our temple buildings.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. What is the wrong?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said in the article that in Ceylon, this man Kovoor has been challenging and being victorious for decades, challenging everyone, "There is no God. There is no soul." But now it said for the first time someone has turned the tables on him and challenged him for the first time. He never expected such a thing.
Prabhupāda: And public applauded.
Śatadhanya: They do about one hundred, 150 a day. Dalhousie, Park Street.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many tables are set up each day?
Śaktimātā:(?): Usually about one or two in different places. As far as life members, it used to be we had to go fight and make life members. Now they come to the temple and they pay their baise o baise(?) rupee and they say, "I want to be a member."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bengali people also?
Śaktimātā: Bengalis also. Mostly still Marwadi.
Prabhupāda: Bengalis have no money. (laughter)
Rāmeśvara: Nandarāṇī and some other brāhmaṇas, some men who are there at the temple. She is especially a good cook. And in the evenings they play Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana tapes, mostly Your Divine Grace. People very much like the atmosphere because of the music. In Islam there is a tradition of chanting God's name and other mantras or prayers, so they appreciate the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa very much. When you enter the restaurant there is a big book table, so the first thing that one sees are japa beads and your books, and people buy the books from the table.
Prabhupāda: English.
Rāmeśvara: For now they are selling Bhagavad-gītā, Back to Godhead, and Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's book. That is also being sold. They are just now printing the first Persian Back to Godhead, and in three months' time the Bhagavad-gītā in Persian will be... Translation will be completed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is doing the translation?
Rāmeśvara: One local man that joined us, very intelligent man.
Prabhupāda: So they are looking after a bigger place?
Prabhupāda: They cannot come to the restaurant.
Parivrājakācārya: No.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Some people even come, higher class people, and work. They give their service in the restaurant. They wash dishes. They serve tables. We engage them in bhakti-yoga.
Brahmānanda: What's the name of the restaurant?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Govinda.
Prabhupāda: So you make good profit.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda chuckles) They respect you a lot in Tehran. The royalty respects you. The businessmen respect you. They really respect Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Persian civilization, very high, Aryan civilization.
Prabhupāda: All embassies.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And also I have set up one round-table debating conference in the Indian Academy of Sciences. That will be right after the conference in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Rāma?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kotari. D. S. Kotari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and very respected. All Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.
Prabhupāda: We want that they should be interested.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...arrangements have been made. First I saw where they are taking prasādam, first class, all long tables in a big room, long tables, tablecloths, and proper plates, knife, fork, spoon. Perfect for them. Nice fans, very gorgeous-looking curtains. Everything real...
Prabhupāda: So why...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...proper.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really high class. And serving kacuris, hot jalebis, all nice preparations. And our men, they look very, very scientific. They're wearing shirt, coat and pants. Svarūpa Dāmodara looks like a scientist now. He has transformed himself. All of them, Mādhava..., they all look, Sadāpūta and Jñāna dāsa, they all look very ...
Prabhupāda: Elegant.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very elegant. All the scientists who are attending, they're dressed a little informally. But our men are very formal. They have the ties on. Everybody has a badge. All the people who are attending have a special badge mentioning the scientific conference's name and the individual person's name. That's in one place. Then in another room is the conference room. It was the room where we were going to have the bank there. Really big room with fancy backdrop. Some decorator has come and made a very fancy backdrop with a big... There's a long table and podium with microphones and very nice seats. In the dining hall all the seats have special white linen cloths over all the chairs. Very fresh looking and clean. And in the other room it's very cool. There's curtains so that the sun can't come in, and now there's a big yajña going on. Yaśodānandana Mahārāja and the Gurukula boys are inaugurating the conference by chanting Sanskrit mantras, and some of the scientists are... Actually they were very amazed to see how our men could chant like that. The whole building is first-class for this purpose. When we build this Bhaktivedanta Institute hall... It's the most wonderful idea to have this conference here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. These scientists, they're going to be converted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I was certain of it by seeing these arrangements. They never could have... They're being tricked.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's wonderful.
Prabhupāda: How many scientists have come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: So where they are staying?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're staying all in the guesthouse.
Prabhupāda: And their food?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Prasādam is served in that big hall where we were planning to have the bank? No, the garage. It is very clean. It is all decorated. And we have tables and chairs. We have in a buffet style. Also devotees have been serving.
Prabhupāda: And where the conference is being held?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Conference is held in that bank room. We have about 150 chairs in that hall. We have displayed Śrīla Prabhupāda's books with the bronze bust, nicely arranged, all the books. And we also have Śrīla Prabhupāda's picture from Bhaktivedanta Manor, that enlarged picture. It's very nice. We have that on the background. Then we have also the recording systems. Everything is recorded. We also had some men from radio... Five men came from radio, All-India Radio. They recorded. So everything seems to be going nicely, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's all.
Bhagavān: That Dr. Kapoor got up after Svarūpa Dāmodara's speech today and he said that actually it was very nice that Svarūpa Dāmodara had organized this program, but actually it was not necessary, because the whole problem can be solved very easily when we understand there is no such thing as matter. He was preaching the philosophy that this material world is false. He was getting up there and saying that actually this table does not exist. (laughs) Nothing actually exists. He said the table is made of molecules, and the molecules are invisible. Therefore the table is also invisible.
Abhirāma: What was the scientists' reaction to that?
Bhagavān: He just spoke right before the thing closed. Svarūpa Dāmodara tried to point out how there is a difference between matter and spirit in that one can definitely see the difference between a living body and a dead body. But he didn't actually go in too much detail to defeat his arguments. But I was very surprised that he would come up with such a Māyāvādī statement, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā philosophy. There are not so many scientists there today, maybe twenty. (kīrtana) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...let me pass. (pause)
Hari-śauri: If you're here with us, then that's all we need. Then we can go out and do anything.
Prabhupāda: Tomorrow shall I take the risk of taking little milk?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Navīna Kṛṣṇa. He's in Detroit. After the conference, I'm going to have a debate in Delhi, round-table conference with Dr. Kotari, D. S. Kotari and his group.
Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He proposed that. That's Indian National Science Academy. But he had some very strange ideas. I'd like to clarify some of the points. Also, these people who are coming, they want us to come and speak to all their universities.
Prabhupāda: That will be very good.
Prabhupāda: A round table we have in Delhi?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Delhi?
Prabhupāda: That round table?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. There will be a round-table conference debate in Delhi. So all five will be there. Brahma-tīrtha, our geologist from Houston, he's going back, he told me, on 28th. So I decided to do on 27th. Also before that... Krishnamurti is the director general of television in New Delhi, and he's a good friend of our Dr. Khorana. Dr. Khorana is our life member in Delhi.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, something like that, very vague. Complete misunderstanding.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his point in the conference?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was saying there is nothing like table. He was sitting on a table. So it is just an imagination. There's nothing like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says it's illusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he said it's illusion.
Prabhupāda: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: They are looking after the book?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are they looking after the book table?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll have to find out from Viśāla how his book sales are doing.
Prabhupāda: Hundred fifty men?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've been told between a hundred and a hundred-fifty. There's a lecture in the temple now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The kīrtana can't be done in the temple just now because there's a lecture there.
Prabhupāda: Lecture?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Every evening there's lecture.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
| Page Title: | Table (Conversation) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Mayapur |
| Created: | 27 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=107, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 107 |