Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the, in the fifth act, ecstasy. At night Caitanya Mahāprabhu would become mad in separation of Kṛṣṇa. He would dash His head on the floor. Sometimes He would write with His nails and sometimes He would go away. Although the house was locked, He would go away, and sometimes He would be found amongst the cowshed of Jagannātha Purī. Sometimes He would be seen in the seashore. One day it was so found that He fell in the ocean and some fisherman caught Him in the net. And as soon as He was in the net and the fisherman touched Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he also began to dance, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. And his brothers, his fellow men thought, "Oh, he's caught ghost, haunted." So in the meantime, His secretary, Damodara Svarupa came to the seashore and he saw that the fisherman was dancing. Then he could understand that he must have some connection with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, (laughs) otherwise why this fisherman is dancing and Hare Kṛṣṇa? Then asked him, "What has happened to you?" He said, "Sir, I do not know. I am a fish-catcher. Now this morning I caught one big fish, and as soon as I caught I am haunted. So I am dancing." So Swarup Damodar, "Where is that fish, big fish? Let me see." So he saw in the net Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He saw Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he told him, "Yes. I'll chant some mantra so the ghost will go away." So he made him some show. "All right. Now your ghost is over." So he took away Caitanya Mahāprabhu and when Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw, He told Swarup Damodar, "Why you have brought Me in the seaside? Oh, I was seeing rāsa dance of Kṛṣṇa. I was enjoying." In this way He was always in ecstasy. And in the last stage, the same ecstasy, He entered Jagannātha temple and He never came back. That is the end of (voice trails off) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So you have to arrange scenes and sounds. That's all.
Svarupa (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"svarupa"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There are some special marks on the chest of Viṣṇu by which in Vaikuṇṭha He is known that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise, in Vaikuṇṭha, everyone has got the same feature like Viṣṇu. Just like if President Johnson comes here as a gentleman, you'll not, nobody will recognize him whether he's president or not unless he shows his special mark. Is it not? All government officers, big officers, they have got within the coat one, some mark. So far I know. So similarly, in Vaikuṇṭha the inhabitants, they got svarūpa. Their form is exactly like Viṣṇu. There is no difference. When the Viṣṇudūta came to take Ajamila from the hands of Yamadūta. They were four-handed with śankha-cakra-gadā-padma as Viṣṇu, the lotus flower, this disc, and the club, and the conchshell. There is no difference in the body. Simply by that special mark, some special hair on the chest and there is Bhṛgu, I mean to say, sole, sole, a mark of the feet of Bhṛgu Muni. So by some special marks one can recognize He is Viṣṇu. Otherwise, from bodily features and from dress and from ornaments, there is no distinction between Viṣṇu and His devotees in Vaikuṇṭha. They're all four-handed. Svarūpa sāyujya sālokya sārṣṭi. They have got equal, I mean to say, situation of prosperity, wealthy, equally, almost equally powerful. So practically there is no difference between Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu-bhakta. In Kṛṣṇaloka also. Only Kṛṣṇa is little blackish. Otherwise there is no... In the Kṛṣṇaloka they are two-handed, and Viṣṇuloka they are four-handed. All the Vaikuṇṭhas, the residents, they are four-handed. You want four-hand or two-hand? (laughter) Mr. Murti? What do you want? Four hands?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Who says, "incorporeal"? Who says?
Guest (1): It is scripture. (?)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Who says, "incorporeal"?
Guest (1): Śiva-liṅga. You find it all over India, that, a summary of everything, that incorporeal form, jyotir-rūpa, incorporeal. Jyotir-liṅga, the Hindu svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are bringing something else besides Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. We are preaching... This International Society for Krishna Consciousness, we are preaching...
Guest (1): But you have to understand the relation between the two.
Prabhupāda: That's all... That we understand very nicely. It is not that I have to learn from you. We know it very well. But you should know that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. So this jyotir-liṅga, all these theories, they are not in the Bhagavad-gītā. It may be in other literature, but we are particularly interested in preaching Bhagavad-gītā. Because Bhagavad-gītā is wrongly preached all over the world by nonsense commentation, we want to rectify it. Therefore our society is specially named "Krishna conscious."
Guest (1): What is wrongly preached about Gītā?
Prabhupāda: Wrong... Just like yesterday I went that Gītā Samītī. There is a lamp. Why there is a lamp instead of Kṛṣṇa? Why there is a lamp? Kṛṣṇa is a lamp? And it is Bhagavad...
Prabhupāda: Madan Mohan.
Tejas: And this is Sri...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Then?
Tejas: This is Sri Naran Svarupa Sharma. He was professor in England and then Member of Parliament here.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tejas: And he has been helpful.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Just see our condition. You have read this morning's paper?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Swami Akhandananda is speaking kalpanā. Such a big sannyāsī, he says that Kṛṣṇa is kalpanā...
Devotee: What was that now?
Prabhupāda: Swami Akhandananda, he was...
Guest (1): Swami Akhandananda, I see, but yes, in Birla temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Birla temple is speaking that Kṛṣṇa is kalpanā.
Guest (2): Kalpanā.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, the Russian scholar, he will, theologian, he can describe about God, what is the nature of God.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So maybe we can ask him to come at five o'clock...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that would be nice.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Devotee (4): And also some of our men, like Prajāpati is an M.A. in theology, and Ravindra-svarūpa M.A. in philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Devotee (4): And they will be here too, and it will be nice to hear discussion.
Prabhupāda: That's right. That discussion only. Students of philosophy, theology, what is their idea of God, what they are thinking, what is their defect, we can talk. Ordinary men you can (indistinct) try to avoid. If they want some question, you can ask.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Jaya.
Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda? I am one of the teachers in the gurukula...
Prabhupāda: Ahh.
Devotee (5): ...and one of the boys, Ekendra, his mother, Kalindi, she wants to take him away from the school.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Nagia. What is his first name?
Gurudāsa: His father's name...
Prabhupāda: His father's name. I gave him one set of books, Bhāgavata, (indistinct). So you have to inquire from him whether it is sold (indistinct). (break)
Gurudāsa: Sudāmā Vipra Mahārāja has such reverence for Siddha Svarūpa, but the other students do not like that, because they think he is treating Siddha Svarūpa with respect when he should be treating you with respect. So naturally, the students love you and so they don't like that.
Prabhupāda: They do not like to give him extra...
Gurudāsa: Respect, at the expense of yourself.
Prabhupāda: There is no such thing. They will stop(?).
Gurudāsa: Yes, they are nice boys. Secondly, for some reason they don't like..., they like to cook themselves.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gurudāsa: They like to cook for themselves. They cook without spices and like that, because they are thinking of their health. I gave them... I know, I can... (break)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) a nice place, a very open place. (indistinct)
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the non-dualists, but in this verse transcendental pleasure, realized through transcendental senses, is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patañjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declared in his Yoga-sūtras: puruṣārtha-śūnyānāṁ guṇānāṁ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti." This citi-śakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This "oneness with the Supreme" is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This "clearance" is actually liberation, or bhava-mahādāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse.
After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the "real life of the living entity." Māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original eternal position of the living entity. Patañjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyam svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This citi-śakti or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtras as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This natural transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhaktiyoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.
In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samādhi, called samprajñāta-samādhi and asamprajñāta-samādhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajñāta-samādhi. In the asamprajñāta-samādhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogī is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogī is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogī indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogīs who are attracted by the siddhis (perfections) in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogīs are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection, as is stated in this verse. Persons, therefore, indulging in the make-show practice of gymnastic feats or siddhis should know that the aim of yoga is lost in that way.
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Pradyumna: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of His birth. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before. If someone is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for a common man to answer immediately. He would surely have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing exactly at the same time one day before. And yet, men often dare claim to be God, or Kṛṣṇa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims. Then again, the Lord explains His prakṛti, or His form. Prakṛti means nature, as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but yet a different body in the next birth. In the material world, the living entity has no fixed body, but transmigrates from one body to another. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṇa appears in this material world in his original eternal form with two hands, holding a flute. He appears exactly in His eternal body, uncontaminated by this material world. Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is the Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Kṛṣṇa grows from childhood to boyhood and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Kṛṣṇa in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mullik, Chaudhuri, Raya. These are Mohammedan titles. Khan. Like that. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...family names, we said two family names, like Raya Chaudhuri, like Datta Gupta. How this happened?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Mulliks they're De Mullik. The original title is De but they got the title Mullik. Similarly, there is another family. They are called Sil Mullik. The original title is Sil but they got the title. As De we belong to the same family. But because, somehow or other, they got this title, so they... It is not different but... (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: ...Gaura-gaṇoddeśa-dīpikā in which you, all the original svarūpa of all the devotees are given?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: So most of the Lord Caitanya's associates were gopīs from the...
Prabhupāda: Associates...
Yaśomatīnandana: Lord Kṛṣṇa's...
Prabhupāda: Some of them gopīs, some of them cowherd boys, some of them father, mother, like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Bengal, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the brāhmaṇa caste family like Mukherjees, then Bannerjees, then,... I had a roommate when I was in Calcutta, his was Mukherjee. So he was telling me one day that we are much more superior brāhmaṇas than other like Chaudhuris and Sanyals.
Prabhupāda: But where is your superiority?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was explaining like that.
Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.
Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.
Prabhupāda: That we shall give in the court. "First of all this man is declaring himself as God, cheating. Why he should not be stopped?" Let there be case. This should be done.
Yaśomatīnandana: Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. If the constitution is that, that in the name of religion somebody cheats, the government should take action, so here it is being done. So we have to maintain so many departments to fight with these wrongdoers. Why not make a test case that "This man is declaring himself God. How he is God? Let him prove in the court." Why not institute a case?
Umāpati: Actually, the people feel helpless. They feel there is nothing they can do anyway, about anything. That's why they are engaging so much in intoxication. They feel hopeless under this government.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect, that the government itself is imperfect. How they can check?
Umāpati: Well, they're so foolish. There was an article in the paper the other day about this shot going to Jupiter and the scientists were described, the scientists that everybody is supposed to depend upon, they were described as biting their fingernails in the hopes that everything would come out all right.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: All day and night.
Karandhara: I don't ever recall it raining so long in succession. Last year it didn't rain very much at all. Very little rain.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Last year all over the world there was drought. (break)
Hanumān: ...and they had some temples there in Rio Janeiro and San Pablo, and they were followers of Gaurasundara and Siddha-svarūpa. And I think they're still there. And when I was there they were making kīrtana, and they were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In the middle of their kīrtana, they would stop their kīrtana, and they would chant "Jaya jaya Siddha-svarūpa," and "Jaya jaya Gaurasundara." So I could not do anything. I told them it was all wrong and everything, and uh... But there is many, many innocent people who are following. They go there for the first time and they make them chant "Jaya jaya Siddha-svarūpa" and "Jaya jaya Gaurasundara," like this. So we were telling, we were talking with...
Prabhupāda: There is no harm in giving "jaya" to Vaiṣṇavas provided they follow the Vaiṣṇava principles. Otherwise, to glorify Vaiṣṇava is not bad. (pause) No, no "jaya" to Mahāprabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? They chanted?
Satsvarūpa: Were they chanting, "Jaya Lord Caitanya, Nityānanda Prabhu?"
Hanumān: Yes, they also chanting, "Bhaja śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya." Yes. But the point is that they were chanting the name of Siddha-svarūpa Gosvāmī and Gaurasundara Gosvāmī, uh, Gaurasundara Adhikārī.
Prabhupāda: If one is Vaiṣṇava, then to glorify him is..., that's not...
Hanumān: So that's all right.
Satsvarūpa: As long as that Vaiṣṇava is following the principles.
Prabhupāda: But they should not attempt like that in the presence of their spiritual master. That is not good. When you found this?
Satsvarūpa: When did you find they were doing this?
Hanumān: When I was there. I was in Brazil about three months ago. And the only books they had published is a book written by Siddha-svarūpa Gosvāmī. They had published one book of him, and they were distributing this.
Prabhupāda: What is the name of that book?
Hanumān: It was an introduction to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, question and answer.
Prabhupāda: You have seen that book?
Hanumān: Yes, Prabhupāda. I have give to Karandhara.
Prabhupāda: So is there anything awkward against our devotional life?
Karandhara: I can't read it. It's in Portuguese.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it was in Portuguese language.
Hanumān: Yes, it's in Portuguese. The only, the only point is that he quotes in this book, he quotes more the books of Gaurasundara than your books.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: I can't read it. It's in Portuguese.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it was in Portuguese language.
Hanumān: Yes, it's in Portuguese. The only, the only point is that he quotes in this book, he quotes more the books of Gaurasundara than your books.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hanumān: Gaurasundara has written some books, and so Siddha-svarūpa, answering the question, quotes from the book of Gaurasundara, and he mentioned, "My professor, Gaurasundara, taught me," and he quotes many, many time. Practically more from the book of Gaurasundara than from your books. (end)
Bhāgavata: But Duryodhana would not admit.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhāgavata: Even though Kṛṣṇa showed His universal form, Duryodhana still did not agree.
Prabhupāda: No, Duryodhana also agreed. All of them got salvation. That is mentioned. Anyone who was in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, all of them got salvation. By their being killed in the battle, they all got liberation and salvation. That is stated by Bhīṣmadeva. Svarūpa. Svarūpa means they came to their original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All of them. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break) (Hindi conversation continues for some time) Materially to get bācche (children) you require the help of husband, but spiritually you don't require anyone's help. In Kṛṣṇa only. That's all. (end)
Prabhupāda: They have... This, the followers of the Bala-yogi they're simply rascals.
Devotee: They'll just be more exposed... They'll have to study your books (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They cannot even speak... Ah?
Devotee: They'll have to study your books to find out what to say.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like our, what is this? Sai, Sai, Siddha-svarūpa. He also tried to imitate ourself, and by reading, reading, he became my disciple. Although he has the same mentality, still, still he does not find any better solution than our philosophy. The Karandhara, he went away (chuckles) and does not find any solution. You see?
Satsvarūpa: "I find no alternative to Kṛṣṇa's service," he said.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the final. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is final. (break)
Mahāṁśa: ...start all over the world?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Devotee: We should...
Prabhupāda: If we'll be successful in America, then all over, everywhere it will be followed. (break) (Hindi)
Mahāṁśa: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You can take it, yes. Prasādam. (laughter) Vaiṣṇava's prasādam. Chaḍīyā vaiṣṇava sevā, niṣṭhā payeche keba. You are all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Eh?
Rāmeśvara: This is the mail order room, where all the orders that people send in for books... They are processed here. They manage that here. And Svarūpa, he is the secretary for the Society. In all your books it says, "If you want more information write to the secretary." He answers all those letters.
Prabhupāda: How many letters you get?
Rāmeśvara: Svarūpa?
Svarūpa: Maybe twenty-five letters.
Hṛdayānanda: Every day.
Rāmeśvara: And also he is encouraging them to become Life Members, and sometimes through the mail they send their Life Membership fee. This is our Mail Order shipping room.
Prabhupāda: I was doing when I was Dr. Bose's manager. Any inquiry coming from outside, I must continue correspondence with him unless he becomes a customer.
Rāmeśvara: Unless he becomes a customer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was doing.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Jayatīrtha: And He chants also his rounds, couple of rounds every day.
Prabhupāda: And another child? Svarūpa-da? Yes...
Paramahaṁsa: Oh, Śiva-jvara.
Prabhupāda: Śiva-jvara. Oh, he's a wonderful child. He is English. He's so busy. He wants to do everything. Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: He was playing karatālas very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Not only that, he's a born devotee. He'll take the ārati lamp and do like this and try to open the door. Anything you... Whatever he has seen others are doing, he'll do.
Paramahaṁsa: He was using the cāmara and the peacock fan.
Prabhupāda: And he chants also. He picks up the words.
Haṁsadūta: He's one of the happiest children I've ever seen.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Haṁsadūta: He's one of the happiest, jolliest looking children I've ever seen.
Prajāpati: No.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, how they can have any...? How they can have any tenets or principles if they don't believe they're accountable to God?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Because they believe they can use Jesus like a doormat to clean their sinful activities of themselves.
Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that why theology should be in reference with Bible? If it is a science, then why should it refer only to the Bible?
Prajāpati: Yes. The biggest school of theology, Harvard School of Theology... The study of the Bible is there, but only on the side. Instead, they study Freud, Karl Marx, everybody else...
Acyutānanda: Well, they should study Gītā.
Prajāpati: Yes, that's our point. How to get them to realize that? That's a question.
Acyutānanda: So we'll ask them, "We have a most scientific and detailed description of the self and God and the means to join to Him. That cannot be avoided in your study. And we claim the highest standard of renunciation, and worship and godly society."
Prajāpati: And their answer...
Acyutānanda: "You can't avoid us."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bhūrijana: Would you like me to do anything? What would you like me to do? I know I don't want to be independent.
Prabhupāda: Why you are inclined to follow Siddha-svarūpa, your wife and you. What is your special attraction?
Bhūrijana: (indistinct) ...we couldn't always be corresponding with you. I needed some personal instruction.
Prabhupāda: But first of all (indistinct) you what is the special attraction? Your wife said that their instruction is very clear. So what is the distinction between clear and ambiguous. What do you find ambiguous, what do you find clear? What is that?
Bhūrijana: I think the part I found clear, the more introspective points about humility, and changing one's desires...
Prabhupāda: Humility means not to follow the instruction of guru? That is not...
Bhūrijana: No, that is not humility.
Prabhupāda: I'm asking you what is the special attraction? You say... Your wife says it is very clear. What is that clear and ambiguous?
Bhūrijana: You mean what is ambiguous and... (indistinct) what is ambiguous or what...
Prabhupāda: No. You say that is very clear what others are telling you. Now what is that ambiguous, what is that clear?
Bhūrijana: The clearness may be a deeper understanding to want to be humble. A deeper understanding to want to...
Prabhupāda: Humble, but if you do not follow your spiritual master's instruction, you follow others, then where is the humbleness? You say that... Your wife says that what Siddha-svarūpa says it is very clear and and others are not so clear. Is it not? What is that clear what is not clear?
Bhūrijana: He says chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So who says that you don't chant?
Bhūrijana: Maybe the emphasis wasn't so much on the chanting even though everyone says harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), everyone just chants their sixteen rounds a day, chants a half hour ārati in the evening and half hour ārati in the morning.
Prabhupāda: So what do you want more? What is your program? 24 hours?
Bhūrijana: I like more kīrtana than that.
Prabhupāda: So you don't like to sell books.
Bhūrijana: No, I think I like very much. I mean I think I would like to.
Prabhupāda: So what is difference?
Prabhupāda: (break) ...avasthiti. When one remains in svarūpa, that is called mukti. (laughter) Svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. (break) The best place in Los Angeles for walking.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. This is the best place in Los Angeles for walking.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...still the sea beach is here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very clean.
Rādhāvallabha: It was Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja's idea to come here.
Rāmeśvara: We've been planning for some time to prepare one flyer advertising our Vṛndāvana guesthouse, because every year college professors take students to India. They all go to see the Taj Mahal, so they pass through Mathurā, so they can easily stop.
Prabhupāda: Agra they must go. Every foreigner, they go to Agra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Agra.
Prabhupāda: That is translation?
Rāmeśvara: That is the translation.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Rāmeśvara: Purport. "By practice of yoga one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle, and after this one becomes situated in trance, or samādhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patañjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation. But they do not understand the real purpose of the Patañjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patañjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness. The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the nondualist, but in this verse transcendental pleasure realized through transcendental senses is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patañjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declares in his Yoga-sūtras: puruṣārtha-śūnyānāṁ guṇānāṁ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This cit-śakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This oneness with the Supreme is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind.
Prabhupāda: The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse. After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the real life of the living entity. māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original, eternal position of the living entity. Patañjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This citi-śakti, or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtras as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This natural, transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā." Should I keep reading Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Should I continue?
Prabhupāda: There is still there?
Rāmeśvara: There is another page.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why don't you do it?
Kulādri: You saw the Rādhā-kuṇḍa in the movie, in the film.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one returns to his svarūpa, his natural form, how does...
Prabhupāda: First of all, anartha-nivṛtti. You are accustomed to so many bad habits. First of all try to rectify it, then talk of svarūpa. Where is your svarūpa? Simply wasting time. A man is diseased, he's thinking, "When I shall be cured I shall eat, go to this hotel, I shall eat like this." First of all cure, then talk of eating this and that. Svarūpa, when you are cured, that is svarūpa. So long you are not cured, what is the use of talking svarūpa? First business is cure yourself. Anartha-nivṛtti, that is anartha-nivṛtti. Then svarūpa will come. That is the bābājīs. In Vṛndāvana, you have seen? Siddha-praṇālī.
Pradyumna: Ah, siddha-praṇālī, siddha-deha?
Prabhupāda: They are smoking and having illicit sex with one dozen women-svarūpa. Rascal. This is called sahajiyā, a rascal. Condemned. Where is your svarūpa? Don't talk unnecessarily. First of all come to svarūpa, then talk of svarūpa.
Devotee: So our motivation should be to get free from birth, disease, old age and death.
Prabhupāda: That is already explained. But you must be determined how to execute devotional service. Without determined devotional service, how we can attain that position? So what is the use of talking utopian? First business is anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Ādau śraddhā tathaḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. You adopt this means that you have got full faith that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save me." Then you live with devotees who are similarly determined. Then you execute devotional service. Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, you'll be free from all these.... These are the stages. There is.... Up to anartha-nivṛtti, you have to struggle very hard with determination, and then automatically everything will come. Tato niṣṭhā tato rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ. So before svarūpa, anartha-nivṛtti, don't expect all these. Read.
Pradyumna:
- śanaiḥ śanair uparamed
- buddhyā dhṛti-gṛhītayā
- ātma-saṁsthaṁ manaḥ kṛtvā
- na kiñcid api cintayet
Prabhupāda: This is practice.
Pradyumna: "Gradually, step by step, with full conviction, one should become situated in trance by means of intelligence, and thus the mind should be fixed on the self alone and should think of nothing else." Purport: "By proper conviction and intelligence one should gradually cease sense activities. This is called pratyāhāra.
Prabhupāda: He's already perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). The one who's trying for others' salvation... That is a devotee's business. Ordinary man cannot do it. Because he's doing that, it is to be understood that he's already on the platform of... Because salvation means to remain his own position. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Svarūpa is to serve God. So if one is serving on behalf of God, then he's in svarūpa, mukti. Others are acting for his own benefit, but a devotee is acting for others' benefit. Therefore he's already on the platform of liberation.
Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, should I have resigned my membership with the Christian organization? Should I have? I did. Could I serve Kṛṣṇa just as well and also through a Christian? I don't see how I could.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say like that. (laughs) Christian, actually one who is Christian, he's as good as Vaiṣṇava. A Christian means he recognizes God is great. So we also accept God is great. Where is the difference? God is great in all circumstances. So if anyone accepts God is great, that is perfect.
Guest (2): That's what the church board said to me. They said, "You believe in Kṛṣṇa, we believe in God. Why do you go? What's superior?" I feel that your knowledge is superior.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?
Guest (2): Superior.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: But who that person is right now to work, that we have to train up some of our men. Because right now...
Prabhupāda: He can do, Svarūpa. He can take training, and he can do. And then, gradually, others will join.
Jayapatākā: I think all the children, they could become brahmacārīs. If the parents would be agreeable, they could become brahmacārīs and attend morning some class, then go to school. In this way the whole village could be made Kṛṣṇa conscious at least by chanting and...
Prabhupāda: Chanting is the main thing. Chanting and distributing prasādam.
Jayapatākā: If we get prasādam, then... I think that they all contribute some grain. They are very poor agricultural people, but there's no theft there. I asked. There's one man who has three acres. Three bighās of land he's giving. So they just grow their rice there and...
Prabhupāda: You can ask that instead of making paraṭā, a light khicuḍi in the morning. That is...
Hari-śauri: Instead of that sabji and everything.
Prabhupāda: No, sabji can make.
Jayapatākā: Khicuḍi instead of paraṭā?
Prabhupāda: So khicuḍi will be easy, like...
Prabhupāda: That is asurika. To increase artificially necessities of life. And become entangled.
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
- te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
These rascals, they do not know what is the aim of life. The aim of life is to go back home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are trying to adjust things by material arrangement. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā. This hope will never be fulfilled. Durāśayā. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This material energy is the external energy of the Lord. So they are enamored by the external energy; they have no information of the internal energy. Svarūpa-śakti. Just like every one of us in the conditioned state, we are busy with this body, the external energy. And the internal energy, the soul, is there. We have no information. Although we practically daily see that as soon as the internal energy is off, it is nothing but as good as the stone. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are giving importance to the external energy. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And they are being encouraged by the so-called leaders to give stress on this external energy. Although they are tightly tied with the laws of nature. The laws of nature will finish this body. But still they are attached to this body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. I had been to that Gandhi's place.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That means why he has created such nonsense? If the disciples say something wrong, then that means he is also wrong. These people will never say that "Our Guru Mahārāja is more than Kṛṣṇa." They are not so nonsense. They will say "My Guru Mahārāja is servant of Kṛṣṇa and I am his servant."
Dr. Patel: He has said Puruṣottama is svarūpa. It cannot be a... Anything which is infinite cannot be grasped by finite senses. That's what he said.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. But disciples say that Aurobindo is more than... This is their knowledge.
Girirāja: That means he's failed as a guru. He hasn't...
Prabhupāda: He could not give them right knowledge. Phalena paricīyate. The paricīya is to be understood by the result. The disciple is the result. If they are so fool, then what is the guru?
Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇava-paramparā, Vallabhācārya, the whole lot is now. I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: They are criticizing us.
Dr. Patel: This thing is the God has to reincarnate Himself again to reestablish bhāgavata-dharma.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. If you don't mind, your Swami Nārāyaṇa is also like that.
Dr. Patel: All of them. They are. That is why, I mean, liberation is created by God again by incarnation.
Prabhupāda: They create a cheap God. Real God they reject. That is going on.
Prabhupāda: This was suitable.
Rāmeśvara: What to do? Every month this happens. They both at the same time every month?
Hari-śauri: Not usually.
Prabhupāda: No... So the today's standard is nice. So she must take instruction or you do it. This was all right. We shall continue this standard for the time being. Yes. So if he's not come back, then wherefrom they got this puffed rice?
Hari-śauri: Well, that man from Haridaspur went and got that. That Prabhu Svarūpa, he went and got the muri.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom?
Hari-śauri: I don't know. I couldn't make head nor tail of what he was saying.
Prabhupāda: Ask him. Is it fresh?
Hari-śauri: He just said he went out and begged some from somewhere. I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Oh, begged from some house.
Hari-śauri: That's what I made out from him. But this boy should be back very soon. The boy that went out to do the shopping should be back very soon. They took a van.
Rāmeśvara: There was one question I had, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You have written in the Third Volume of the First Canto different instructions for the age of Kali, how there'll be compulsory marriage and so on and so on. And you mentioned about the gold standard, that this is very bad, this artificial standard of monetary exchange.
Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is knowledges based on some simple speculation.
Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.
Dr. Sharma: He says that the giraffe has got a very lengthy neck because there was no grass on the floor. He had to reach the branches and bows of a tree for the leaves. So he got a lengthy neck.
Prabhupāda: So who made this arrangement?
Dr. Sharma: It was written by Darwin.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right, but next question will be, "Who made his neck so long? Why not your neck?"
Dr. Sharma: Then Darwin forgot there are millions of other herbivores living on the planet.
Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Tell them that. He's unable to show Jagannātha. Then how he's guru? It is guru's responsibility to bring him to... That is upanayana. Upanayana, this sacred thread, means the guru brings him near God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this man gives them some thread, makes them touch his feet, the whole thing, offer coconut...
Prabhupāda: He's a foolish rascal. What can be done?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Jagannātha, when he was telling us about this bābājī, he said that there's also these bābājīs, they claim to be a guru for giving initiation into their svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, svarūpa-siddhi. So we can mention this as also rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? Cheaters there are. If you want to be cheated, who can save you? He has made guru without asking his guru. He submits to others. Then how we can save him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that do to his relationship with his own spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How does this affect his relationship with his...?
Prabhupāda: They don't care for his own spiritual master.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what...? That means their relationship is spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guror avajñā, aparādha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aparādha.
Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-goru, that is called. That risk is there because in India there are so many places, holy places. If you are not expert, you'll be victimized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this svarūpa-siddhi?
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, that is bogus. Svarūpa-siddhi is not that you do all nonsense things and svarūpa-siddhi... Svarūpa-siddhi means when he is actually liberated, he understands what is his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is svarūpa-siddhi. Sākhya... So that is far away. Unless... If he's such a fool, then where is svarūpa-siddhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that realization doesn't come by some initiation from some bābājī.
Prabhupāda: That automatically comes when there..., he is liberated, not before. So the bābājīs give this mantra for svarūpa-siddhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man, he has a book now of these..., this man from Purī, Jagannātha Purī. He has a... He collects letters from each one of them, and he keeps them in a book, and he shows...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that "They have given me..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many disciples.
Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is our position. We have to select our worker from the worst class of the society, pāpī and tāpī. But, we shall prove, by hari-nāma they become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the movement. You trace the history of everyone. All worst, third class. And they come here. And that is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. How many Doctor Svarūpa has come? If we speak frankly, (laughter) all from the worst class. Those who were finished. And Kṛṣṇa... It is said, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. Pāpī and tāpī, they are not first class. They are the tenth class. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the test of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, that how many pāpī-tāpīs have been picked up. Brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. This is Gaura-Nitāi. What is their business? Now, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. "Bas? This is their business?" Yes, to deliver all the pāpīs and tāpīs. "So how is that?" Tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. See Jagāi-Mādhāi. It is not imaginary. So we have to deliver all Jagāis and Mādhāis. This is our movement. That is the test of the, of us. It is not sorry for that, but still, they should act like good men.
Yaśomatīnandana: The verse is here.
Bhavānanda: As soon as we were released, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I immediately came here. I'm free to stay here with you. When we heard that your health had gotten worse and worse, I realized that I'm totally dependent upon you for my very life and soul, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If you should leave, I don't... (break) ...then with a group of men, and in one week he distributed over five thousand books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which book is selling the most? (some discussion)
Bhavānanda: And Ānanda-svarūpa is in Malda, and he in the last week distributed over four thousand books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the report from Haridaspura?
Bhavānanda: They had their disappearance day of Ṭhākura Haridāsa. They distributed prasādam, and five thousand people came. We sent a party of men down.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five thousand.
Bhavānanda: Now the flood waters have recessed. We're preparing for the planting, plowing. Everything has been flooded. Just now it's dry enough to plow for planting wheat. We planted 170 coconut trees. (pause)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your pulse is nice and strong, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: What is the attitude of our Godbrothers?
Bhavānanda: Favorable and helpful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which ones?
| Page Title: | Svarupa (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 03 of Apr, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=38, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 38 |