Supposed to be (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"supposed to be"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: One other thing, I went to shake hands with everybody and I found that all your right hands were wrapped. What is the significance of that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That wrapping... It is not exactly wrapped. It is a bag for our beads. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. So the beads are supposed to be sacred and therefore we keep it in a bag so that it may not touch the dust or any other impurities. So it is not wrapping, it is covering of the sacred beads.

Interviewer: Now I just want to read one section here. I think you'll be able to... "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness began when Swami Bhaktivedanta arrived from India with $2 on his person, a metal suitcase full of ancient-looking books and a cotton cloth robe, colored yellow, as a sign of the renounced order of life. In India, men of his order are completely dedicated to propagating the spiritual life of a mendicant wanderer. He had wandered across the sea upon the order issued to him by his guru who told him he should prepare to go to America to teach the principles taught in the Bhagavad-gītā and to translate the sixty volumes of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam into English." Now, are you a guru?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Only for propagating children.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Interviewer: Then there is a similarity to Catholicism. The priest is supposed to be celibate.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Anywhere there is spiritual conception, sex life is not indulged. Anywhere, either it may be Christianity or Hinduism... Sex life is materialism. That is opposite number of spiritualism. So people are trained gradually to refrain from sex life. And in the sannyāsa life he's completely trained. Therefore he's allowed to move in the society for preaching spiritual education.

Interviewer: The whole world has heard of the Maharishi Mahesh. Is he part of your order?

Prabhupāda: No. I have heard so much in the paper.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Śivānanda: In other words, in the correct position that... You might have a community, and then...

Prabhupāda: The community is supposed to be there. The potter is there, the washerman is there, the grocer is there, the milkman is there, everyone is there. So we haven't got to form community.

Śivānanda: No. In the correct position then, the temple would be the center of the community.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, hear Bhagavad-gītā. We don't say, "Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed." We don't say that. "Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed." No. We don't say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on. And what is the business? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone can do it. And what is the next business? We read some nice philosophical portion from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yes. You have got ears. (shouts:) But the rascals are not coming! That is their rascaldom. Because they will go to hell. We are offering the greatest facility, but they are so rascals they are not coming. This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. I say publicly.

Journalist: Could you explain that, give me a little background on that and why, because our readers are...

Prabhupāda: I do not know, but from his behavior I can understand he's a rascal number one. I do not like to know about him, but what he did... But the wonderful thing is that people in western countries, they're supposed to be so advanced. How they are befooled by these rascals?

Journalist: Well, I think that people believe what they want to believe. They're looking for something, and he comes along...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they want something very cheap. That is their fault.

Journalist: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now for our disciples, we don't give anything cheap. Our first condition is character, moral character. You see? So unless one is accepting moral character, we don't initiate, don't allow him in this institution. And this Maharishi was, "Oh, you do whatever you like. You simply pay me thirty-five dollars and I'll give you some mantra." You see. So people wanted to be cheated, and so many cheaters come. They do not wish to undergo some disciplinary action, you see? Anything. They have got money. They think that "I shall pay," and immediately he'll get the money.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Authorized from Kṛṣṇa.

Journalist: Is there in India a licensing body by the state for people to preach or to... How in the heck would you say it here?

Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: In some lecture he said that "I want to meet some religious heads." And so one of my girl students in San Francisco, she is very educated. She wrote one letter to Nixon. And I have got the copy, that "Swamiji is spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is being appreciated by the younger section. So Swamiji will be glad to see you if you make some appointment." But he never replied.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, this university he chose because it's supposed to be typical of America. So if in this typical university the young people greet him by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then he may well invite you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No. I came here with this idea, that in America they are in need of these things, and they are wanting something substantial. So if some is given... Of course, I am doing my bit as far as possible. But if some organized things are done like government help or people help, then this movement can be pushed further nicely. Otherwise slowly it will go on, as Kṛṣṇa desires.

Hayagrīva: Mr. Ginsberg said he also chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa for Robert Kennedy before he died.

Allen Ginsberg: I think I told you about that, didn't I?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You told me in San Francisco. Yes.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

George Harrison: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gītā,

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

itaras tad anuvartate

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

The idea is that anything which is, I mean to say, accepted by the leading persons, ordinary persons follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas. Śreṣṭhas means leading persons. Ācarati, acts. Whatever leading persons act, people in general follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, you are leaders. Thousands of young men follow you. They like you. So if you give them something actually nice, the face of the world will change. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not a manufactured new thing. It is, from historical point of view, at least, it is five thousand years old. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And Bhagavad-gītā... Of course, it is supposed to be Indian religious book, but it is not like that. It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world. Not only for the human being, but also other than human being, because in the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). In all species, all kinds of form... The living entities, they are in different forms. Just like we are sitting here, so many ladies, gentlemen, boys. We have got different forms. Similarly, you Europeans, you have got different color, or Indians, we have got different... So this whole world is full of varieties. So Kṛṣṇa says, "All the varieties of life, it doesn't matter. I am their father."

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: What is God? God... Can you define God?

Guest (3): No.

Guest (2): I think the trouble is... God is this...

Guest (3): Is God supposed to be energy or is God supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: Energy is God's energy. Just like sun and sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of sun. Just try to understand. The energy, sunshine, and the sun is not different. But still if you are satisfied with the energy sunshine, it is not sun. Try to understand this philosophy.

Guest (3): Are you saying that energy is God? God is energy?

Prabhupāda: Energy, being nondifferent from God, in one sense, it is God, but energy is not God at the same time. The same example. Just like sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun, but sunshine, if it enters in your room, if you think that "Sun has entered into my room," that is wrong. But sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni... (BG 9.4). (break) "Everything is resting in Me." That means in His energy. But not that everything is God.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: No.

Satsvarūpa: What's the trouble?

Prabhupāda: The trouble is that Kṛṣṇa's body is... Why it is made so big? Why the others, inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, smaller?

Satsvarūpa: He's supposed to be up in the front. He's supposed to be in the front, and they're all behind Him. But it mustn't be done well enough.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Do you think that is represented? Kṛṣṇa did not show His gigantic body. As He was, He lifted. Yes.

Hayagrīva: He seems gigantic.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa could show His gigantic. Actually He expanded His gigantic body. Otherwise how He could lift?

Kīrtanānanda: These are very nice.

Prabhupāda: These things are... Yes.

Brahmānanda: Do you like this one, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This is also not bad, but...

Kīrtanānanda: The calf looks like a dog.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Whenever you add this word āśrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa—they are known as āśrama. Anyone can understand āśrama. As soon as there is āśrama that means "Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives." That is āśrama. So that āśrama, when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in brahmacārī āśrama. A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles—gṛhastha āśrama.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: He asked if we have an engagement this morning. 8:30.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Molpar(?), yes. They'll send car?

Yamunā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How far it is?

Haṁsadūta: It's supposed to be just in the neighborhood.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all. He was formerly prince.

Revatīnandana: Of this area?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: He had given (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is the sign of princely opulence.

Revatīnandana: He's the son of the man we saw last week? This Mahārāja? It's not his son?

Prabhupāda: No, no, he is also old man.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundaram... But the Śyāmasundaram means He is blackish, still, He is so beautiful that thousands of Cupids cannot be compared with Him. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ (Bs. 5.30). Kandarpa-koṭi. Cupid is supposed to be the most beautiful, but about Kṛṣṇa it is stated that:

veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ

barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam

kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.30)

Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam: He is playing on flute. Aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ: His eyes are just like petals of the lotus flower. Barhāvataṁsam: He has got a peacock feather on His head. Asitāmbuda: and His color is just like black cloud. Sundarāṅgam: but His beauty, total beauty is kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ (Bs. 5.30). Still, the beauty... As soon as we say blackish, we think that he... If somebody is blackish, he is not beautiful.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (2): But sama-darśi equals sama-darśi. The sin and virtue are the same.

Prabhupāda: No, here... Yes, that is sama-darśinaḥ because here it is said clearly, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇa (BG 5.18). A brāhmaṇa, learned brāhmaṇa, and vinaya, very humble... That is the sign of goodness. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne gavi hastini śunica. Śunica means dog. Now he is seeing a dog and a learned brāhmaṇa-same. Now, dog is supposed to be sinful, and this learned brāhmaṇa is supposed to be virtuous. Therefore his vision, the virtuous and the sinful, the same. That is sama-darśi.

Guest (1): I think that they have made a many mistakes in writing of the ślokas.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now you are finding mistake with Vyāsa, so who can talk with you?

Guest (2): No, but, but...

Prabhupāda: Please excuse me. Please go out. Please go out. Don't trouble. You are finding faults with Vyāsa.

Guest (4): We only want you to be understood here.

Prabhupāda: (shouting) I am not sama-darśi! I don't say I'm sama-darśi! I don't say, sama-darśi. So you say sama-darśi. Sama-darśi.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Mohsin Hassan: Would you please mention something about the meaning of the ritual of the initiation. They put their hand in the oil and the burning of the fire...

Prabhupāda: They are not putting their hand on the oil. It is called yajña, offering ghee to the fire. This is Vedic, this is Vedic ritual, to offer clarified butter and grains in the fire. Fire is supposed to be the mouth of God. So we are offering eatables to the Supreme Person, rūpa.

Mohsin Hassan: What is the goal of this movement for the future? Is there any program set for the future?

Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine movement, it will make progress, provided it is presented in pure form. It was not presented before me in pure form, at least in the Western countries. Therefore people could not take it, nor they could understand it. Now it is being placed in pure form in the right way of paramparā system as the ācāryas introduced, and actually it is happening. It is..., they are taking. Wherever they are going, people are very much anxious to take this philosophy, as if they are waking. Anywhere we go, even we have sent men to Jerusalem (?). (aside:) What town? (indistinct) So this method is very effective, and people are accepting, any part of the world, without any discrimination. Here mostly you see our students are from the Christian group, the Jewish group, there are many students from Muhammadan group, from Parsi group.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Haṁsadūta: He says, "My dear Lord, people may say that I am the master of all Vedic knowledge and I am supposed to be the creator of this universe. But it has been proved that I cannot understand Your personality, even though You are present before me just like a child. You are playing with Your boyfriends, calves and cows, which might imply that You do not even have sufficient education. You are appearing just like a village boy carrying Your food in Your hand and searching for Your calves, and yet there is so much difference between Your body and mine that I cannot estimate the potency of Your body. As I have already stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Your body is not material." He says, "Even though You are standing before me, I cannot..."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: He says, "Even though You are present before me just like a child, I cannot understand." So people they think they understand it only when God is nowhere near.

Prabhupāda: No, this is the position. Even Brahmā cannot understand; what we can understand? So without bothering ourself... Jñāne prayāsam. Jñāne prayāsam means endeavor to understand. Namanta, give up this practice. Jñāne prayāsam udapasya namanta eva. Just become submissive. Submissive means that "We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply let us serve." That's all. And develop your dormant love. That is perfection.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Sometimes it's just honest ignorance.

Prabhupāda: No. Generally mother is honest. If one is unfortunate he has got a mother like that, cheat you. Generally expected, a mother is honest. Mother loves his child, he gives the good information. That is mother's position. But if someone has got a different mother, that's..., the same thing can be applicable to you also. You are lawyer. Everyone depends on you, but if you conduct a case in a different way just to make profit to other party, you can do that. That is my misfortune. I have to depend on you for conducting the case. I have no other means.

Dr. Weir: And the poor lawyer has to depend upon the other person in telling him what is supposed to be the true facts.

Prabhupāda: But my position is, as soon as I appoint my lawyer, I'll have to depend fully on you. I cannot do anything else. Whatever you advise me I have to do that.

Dr. Weir: Yes, but whatever you told me depends upon what advice I give to you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But, as you say, the mother gives misinformation. Similarly, if you misguide me, that is not good. But I will have to depend on you.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)

Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar(?), taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard. In your country, five thousand drunkard priests were consolidated in a hospital for treatment. They're getting money. So there is possibility, we are opening temples, public is contributing. But if we become easy-goer, "Now money is coming, let us eat sumptuously and eat, eat and sleep, and if possible drink also." But, of course, we are restricting. But naturally when one man becomes idle, idle brain is the devil's workshop. So if he can get... Just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country. When he has no difficulty to get money, then what he will do? He will simply drink or invent some means of intoxication, naked dance. So they became very much perturbed. Venasyāvekṣya durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam, vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma... Kṛpāya, they were very much compassionate. They cannot see. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Therefore, Vaiṣṇava is always unhappy by seeing other's unhappiness. They know how they are going to hell. Just like any gentleman will be aggrieved when they pass on the Bowery Street, seeing their fallen condition. So if any gentleman can become unhappy by seeing such condition of people, what to speak of saintly persons who are supposed to be responsible for spiritual up...

Room Conversations -- April 22, 1972, Japan:

Prabhupāda: Three main: maṅgala-ārati, bhoga-ārati and sandhya-ārati. These are main. Then you can offer śayana-ārati before going to bed. śayana-ārati. And these four, and dhūpa-ārati just after lighting, or before lighting. Then, after rest in afternoon, dhūpa-ārati. After dressing, dhūpa-ārati. So two, three dhūpa-ārati, and three, four full āratis. Three must be, and four also, four, full āratis. And dhūpa-ārati at least three, four. In this way.

Bhānu: The full ārati will be in the morning, maṅgala-ārati, there will be the noon ārati, supposed to be one in the evening. When should the other full ārati be?

Prabhupāda: When the Deities are going to bed. Before going to bed. Yes. śayana-ārati, it is called śayana-ārati. Sundara-ārati, bhoga-ārati, maṅgala-ārati. You write down. Maṅgala-ārati early in the morning, bhoga-ārati at noon, offering prasādam, then sundara-ārati just after half an hour or one hour sunset, then śayana-ārati.

Pradyumna: One hour after sunset?

Prabhupāda: Yes. One hour or half an hour. It must be dark.

Pradyumna: Oh, the śayana-ārati.

Prabhupāda: No. Sundara-ārati. Sundara-ārati must be as soon as it is dark. And then śayana-ārati. Śayana-ārati. Śayana means going to bed.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Everyone.

Martin: They were all the reincarnation of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Martin: I see.

Prabhupāda: Yad yad vibhūti. Any, anyone who is showing some extraordinary power, he is supposed to be incarnation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo 'ṁśa-sambhavam. The brilliant energy. He represents the brilliant energy of Kṛṣṇa. And the energy is not different from the energetic. (aside:) Hm. What is that?

Devotee: I just said that this is a very good sound track of your speaking—this chanting and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business. So that is their fault.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇas means by quality. He must have the brahminical quality, then he's brāhmaṇa.

Guest (2): So under these principles then, there are no brāhmaṇas in India, really, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the... Not only...

Guest (2): Not all the brāhmaṇas who are supposed to be brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We... Our... This philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to the Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata, we don't accept brāhmaṇa by birth. We accept brāhmaṇa by quality. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Quality and work.

Guest (2): What are your qualifications for a śūdra?

Prabhupāda: Śūdra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That's all. He has no more culture. That is śūdra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he's a śūdra. A brāhmaṇa never serves anyone, a kṣatriya never serves anyone, a vaiśya never serves anyone. A śūdra... Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). They want some service: "Give me some money, sir. I am helpless." "All right, you work like this." That is śūdra.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Devotee: Remember you were asking me just a few days ago about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, I (indistinct). I heard Swamiji, you know, came to my house to read. Rāsa-pañca-adhyāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: That is supposed to be the...

Prabhupāda: Now, when I shall go to Juhu, I shall regularly begin all Bhāgavata.

Sumati Morarjee: I want to hear, Swami.

Prabhupāda: Yes, all Bhāgavata.

Sumati Morarjee: And you know, rāsa-pañca-adhyāya is really the pañca-prāṇa of Bhāgavata, otherwise it is all right. There is nothing important. That is the real soul of the Bhāgavata, the rāsa-pañca-adhyāya.

Prabhupāda: You have got duplicate copies of this?

Sumati Morarjee: Have you got? Otherwise don't give me.

Devotee: Yes, I have some copies I brought.

Prabhupāda: All right, then (indistinct)

Sumati Morarjee: He has come from there?

Devotee: Myself? I just came from Detroit.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real duty. But people do not know that. They are manufacturing their duty. A big man like Gandhi, he also manufactured his duty, but he does not know what is his duty. He never preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore he does not know what is his duty.

Devotee: He said that the message of Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolence.

Prabhupāda: That is all. Opposite. Whatever message it is... He was supposed to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. His photograph is with the Bhagavad-gītā. But he did not speak a single word that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." He talked so many nonsense. All others... The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense. We are speaking, "Here Kṛṣṇa says surrender. You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Simple thing. We don't manufacture duty. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to say people, "Here Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). You become His devotee, you always think of Him, you offer Him obeisances." Our simple duty.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: Oh. There's some famous islands between England and Holland called the Jersey Islands. There's special milk that comes from Jersey. Jersey milk is best.

Prabhupāda: No. These Europeans, Americans, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be more happy. That is assured. From all angles of vision-their family life, their political life, their social life, their cultural life, their religious life, their philosophical life, their scientific life—everything will be perfect. Now you have to teach them. I can give you the ideas how they'll be happy. The rascals, they do not know why, what is your specialness, and just to teach you this. My only ambition is that you are... (aside:) Oh, there is no water. You are supposed to be the most intelligent persons. (Prabhupāda drinks) So if you take, others will take. That is going on. So I have no distinction between East and West. They're thinking that East is conquering West by culture. That is their enviousness. (laughter) That is, they are afraid. Because the Britishers, they kept Indian culture suppressed so long because... (break) ...the kṣatriya, kings, in special cases. Not for public. Among the kṣatriyas. And among the vaiśyas, one day in a year, when they were allocated(?), to try one's luck. One day they'll bet. Not amongst the brāhmaṇas or the śūdras. Śūdras have no money to gamble, and brāhmaṇas prohibited. The kṣatriyas, they were also allowed in special cases, and the vaiśyas were allowed to engage in gambling one day in a year. That means restricted.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's not a scientist. He's called a naturalist.

Prabhupāda: Naturalist. Anyway, you can call him a philosopher. So the basic point is wrong. Starting is wrong. Starting point is mistake and illusion. Therefore, the next point is cheating. If you start from wrong conception of life, then if you distribute knowledge, that means cheating. You do not know, still you are distributing knowledge. But this rascal Darwin, he has no clear idea. He is simply theorizing, speculating, and misleading people. Therefore, he is cheating. So if I cheat you and you cheat me, then how you can expect perfection of life? It is a society of cheating, and that is actually going on. Everyone is thinking, "How I have gorgeous way cheated you." That is politics, diplomacy. If you can cheat your friend very cleverly, then you are supposed to be very big man. Big lawyer means the law is there, but if he can cheat the law, then he is big lawyer.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: But you had explained...

Scholar: ...that Vivasvān is the personification of Sūrya and he is the first man...

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by personification?

Scholar: As the embodiment of Sūrya. So Sūrya is supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: No. He says that "I spoke to Sūrya, Vivasvān." Vivasvān.

Scholar: Vivasvān. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Vivasvān is a person.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Vivasvān is a person, not the personification. What is the translation, explanation given?

Scholar: Vivasvān, in Indonesian is, Vivasvān (Indonesian) is supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: Now what he has translated.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: Person. I see. Yes. Person and ...

Prabhupāda: His name is Vivasvān.

Scholar: I see.

Prabhupāda: The predominating deity in the sun planet, his name is Vivasvān.

Scholar: Vivasvān, yes. And he's supposed to be the originator of...

Prabhupāda: He's the original person for the... There are two kinds of kṣatriyas. One coming from the sun-god, and the other is coming from the moon god, candra-vaṁśa, sūrya-vaṁśa.

Scholar: That's a very good correction for us. (Indonesian)

Prabhupāda: Personification means he... From the explanation it appears that actually there is no person.

Scholar: Yes. Originally there was person.

Prabhupāda: Not was, is, is still.

Scholar: Is still.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their life is long duration.

Scholar: Yes.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No. The process is you have to go to the teacher. But if the teacher is a cheater, then the whole thing is spoiled. A teacher must be teacher, perfect teacher. But if he happens to be a cheater then the whole thing is spoiled.

Mr. Wadell: But the human situation is often a sort of mixture of the two. Sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, mixture of two, that may be, but the process is that we have to approach the real teacher. Just like I approach the mother. Mother is supposed to be not cheater. But if the mother happens to be a cheater, then I am cheated. I am cheated. I don't get the information of my real father. But it is expected the mother should not cheat.

Mr. Wadell: Yes, oh I know that it is expected of the teachers.

Prabhupāda: So it is my misfortune; if I get a cheater mother, then my whole life is spoiled.

Mr. Wadell: But the teacher may be wrong without wishing to be wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, he is not teacher. If a teacher is wrong, he is cheater. That is our proposition.

Mr. Wadell: Well, I'm sorry, this is a point which we must surely...

Prabhupāda: This is the real point. If you have to go to a teacher, you must go to a real teacher. You don't go to a cheater.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Ne, culture...

Guest (3): Culture nāsti.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Poverty's not question.

Guest (1): It's basically the character, the problem of the character.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) They have no idea about Vedic... They are supposed to be preaching Vedānta philosophy, but they do not know what is Vedānta.

Guest (1): I like this philosophy of Swami Rama-tirtha... But I read his literature and I quite liked his philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Rama-tirtha also, he gave stress on oṁkāra. Is it not? Oṁkāra?

Guest (1): Hm. I think he is more on this karma-yoga. He believes that you should. Or... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Guest (1): Your karma is actually the other secret of success or something like that.

Guest (2): There are so many. I think it is in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains that...

Guest (1): It's all his words, not outside words, in Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Guest (1): No, (Hindi). First I went there...

Prabhupāda: So you have got your own house there, Dehra Dun?

Guest (3): No, I tried to buy house, and I made deposit and everything. I wanted to buy the house. Then I came to England to raise the money. I raised the money and went back to India. And by the time I went back, there were four litigations going on on the house.

Prabhupāda: Oh... (laughter)

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (7): Purposeful, knowing that, knowingly that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord and Supreme Authority, even then, if they ignore it...

Prabhupāda: No. Knowingly means that every Indian knows that Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At least... The every Indian, at least Hindus, they perform Janmāṣṭamī, accepting Kṛṣṇa. But still, they will not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality. They'll bring many other competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be...? I have got Durgā. I have got this, Śiva. I have got that. I have got that. I have got that." This is going on as Hinduism. So many gods. So many gods. Although the Vedic literature says, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). In Bhagavad-gītā... Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā it says, Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "Everything is emanation from Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). These things are there, but they'll not accept. Therefore they are offenders. Otherwise where is the difficulty? God is one. That is accepted. Eko brahma. God cannot be two. God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām ekaḥ (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). One nitya, one eternal, one living being..., that is Supreme. We are living being. We are also nitya, eternal. But he is nityo nityānām. He is the chief of the nityas. He's the chief of the living entities. So that is chief. Kṛṣṇa personally says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior living being than Me." So these things are there in the Vedas. And they are supposed to be Vedic scholars, but they do not know the simple thing. So in that way they are ignorant. They read the Vedic literatures, but they do not understand, or they misinterpret in a different way for their own purpose. So they are, they're offender. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this situation, that "God is impersonal, and, everyone can become God, or everyone is God." This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this havoc.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's right.

Prabhupāda: And that means a higher standard of sense gratification.

Buddhist Monk (1): The more material doubts people can produce, that's supposed to be the educated person.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Anybody else is coming? No. Somebody's coming?

Devotee: There's supposed to be two gentlemen coming, coming some men coming, and...

Devotee: School? He's coming from the school?

Devotee: No. More boys will come.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: They were from the same... Those boys all came from the same school as those teachers. They're just up the road. They'll all come now.

Prabhupāda: They are understanding our philosophy?

Devotee: Very nicely, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Devotee: They like. They had never come to the temple before. Just first time they came out. I said, "It is very difficult to understand."

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavān dāsa has gone?

Devotee: Yes, he went this morning.

Devotee: Two gentlemen were supposed to come, but I think they were afraid.

Prabhupāda: Afraid? Why?

Devotee: Well, guru, they have to surrender to guru. They must surrender. So it's difficult sometimes for them to come.

Prabhupāda: But it is compulsory? (laughter) They can come. It is not the question of surrender.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Pradyumna: Na pitaś ca sa syān.

Prabhupāda: Na pitā?

Pradyumna: Oh, na patiś ca sa syān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, na patiḥ. And one should not become husband also. Because husband is supposed to be instructor to the wife. Husband is the guardian of the wife. So he's responsible for her spiritual advancement. As much as the father is responsible for the spiritual advancement of his child, the spiritual master is responsible... Anyone who is claiming to be superior, he should be responsible for the inferior's spiritual advancement of life. So the conclusion is that they should not claim to become such and such unless they are able to save the subordinate from the imminent danger of death. Because death is there so long one is not spiritually advanced. As soon as one is spiritually advanced, he goes to the spiritual world, transferred. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). Spiritually advancement means to be transferred to the spiritual world. So this is the main business of the father, of the husband, of the spiritual master, of the king, of the guardian, of kinsmen. Everyone should be alert: "Whether I am helping my subordinate in the spiritual advancement of life." Because that will save him from the repetition of birth and death. And otherwise, what benefit you can do? If he's under the laws of karma, if he's going to become a cat or dog in next life, what help you have given to him? If he's under the laws of karma, then your help is no use. Your help is no use.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: But today's kings...

Prabhupāda: Today's no... I'm speaking... Today's good and tomorrow is bad, that is not.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah.

Prabhupāda: I'm speaking the principle. The king must be representative of God. Therefore we offer so much honor to the King. Exactly like God. Why? Because King is supposed to be representative of God. Our Vedic conception is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This catur-varṇa. It is the king's duty, government's duty, to see that a person claiming to be brāhmaṇa, whether he's acting as a brāhmaṇa. Nowadays that... Such supervision is not there. Therefore a man acting as śūdra, but he's claiming to be brāhmaṇa.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Isn't it?

Reporter: Yeah.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Śrutakīrti: Punar janma na vidyate. "From the highest planet in the material world to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again."

Prabhupāda: Just see. So going to the higher planetary system means to achieve higher standard of life, but that does not mean solution of material problems. Just like Western countries, they are supposed to be living in higher standard of life than Eastern countries, but that does not mean they have conquered over death. That's not possible. They might possess a nice motor car, but the Eastern man may not possess. He has a bullock cart. This much advancement may be there. But the death, birth, death, is the same, in the Eastern and the Western.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And milk, you have got?

Śrutakīrti: Yes. They have got. I think there's one other guest coming, isn't there.

Pradyumna: Is the professor coming?

Devotee: He was supposed to come a half an hour ago.

Śrutakīrti: There was a guest who was supposed to be here one half hour ago.

Pradyumna: He's a little late.

Śrutakīrti: So I'll bring it down. (break)

Prabhupāda: These are our books. You have seen?

Professor: Yes, sir, I've seen... Some of them, I've seen. This one in particular I have seen.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are... This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There are sixty volumes, books like this.

Professor: Sixty volumes like this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sixty volumes. And you can see how we are doing Sanskrit.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If they do not, what can I do?

Yaśomatīnandana: Well, no, if they do, then they will go to Vaikuṇṭha. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is our śāstric injunction, that as soon as you see a sannyāsī, you must bow down. Otherwise, you should fast one day. It doesn't matter, I or you. This is the injunction of the śāstra, that sannyāsī is supposed to be the guru of the society. So one must bow down.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, in our movement there are so many sannyāsīs. If we see the sannyāsī, same, so many times in one day, we should bow down every time we see him?

Prabhupāda: If you can, of course.

Śrutakīrti: It wouldn't hurt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this time He used to take His saṅkīrtana party for strolling all over the city.

udilo aruṇa pūraba-bhāge

dwija-maṇi gorā amani jāge

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we are helpless without you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: We are helpless without you.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Today sky is clear.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then how fortunate He is is beyond our thinking capacity.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Because... Therefore acintya. How great He is, how great fortunate He is, that you cannot think of, you cannot estimate. That is called acintya. Acintya means I cannot conceive, I cannot estimate. Not only I, any big personality within this universe. Just like Brahmā says, "The others may say that he knows you, but so far I am concerned, I do not know you." That is inconceivable. Brahmā, the greatest personality within this universe, he also admits that "Others may say that he knows what You are, but from my personal experience, I say I do not know anything." We can simply partially see. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Just like we are seeing this material nature, partial exhibition of His potencies. This is one of the potencies, but He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). This material nature is only... This is also inferior potency. Apareyam. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This material nature is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind intelligence, ego. All these eight elements are separated inferior energy, and how much superior energies He has got. The superior energy is supposed to be the spiritual world, manifestation of the spiritual world. So if in the inferior material energy there are so many wonderful things, just imagine how much greater important wonderful things are there in the spiritual energy, which is called superior.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes... (break) ...and papaya is very good for breakfast. (break) ...better than Los Angeles.

Bali Mardana: Oh yes.

Sudāmā: You like it?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Bali Mardana: Actually, Hawaii is supposed to be the center of... It's right between the East and the West, between Japan and U.S.A. and Australia.

Prabhupāda: Yes, marginal.

Bali Mardana: It is a good headquarters for you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: For USA, 'cause then... It is very easy to come from the mainland.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So make a headquarters.

Bali Mardana: O.K.

Sudāmā: We can make... We'll make a nice house for you on the land.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Very nice. (japa) (break) Where? Here?

Sudāmā: Yes, they're cows, but they keep them very poorly, treat them very badly.

Prabhupāda: Why? You keep cows nicely.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: It is just to give His personal example that a sannyāsī should not be very much intimately mixing with rich men. That is by His personal example. He was a sannyāsī. He refused to see a king because a king is supposed to be always busy in material affairs. So if... For the general people aspiring to go back to home, back to Godhead, for them, to mix with the materialistic persons is forbidden. Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca (CC Madhya 11.8). Those who are viṣayī, simply engaged in sense gratification, and yoṣitām... Yoṣitām means women or enjoyable things.

Guest (1): Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmmm.

Guest (1): Many religious institutions, they welcome the rich peoples. Those who are coming by cars, and those who are coming gorgeously, and they are donating much to the institutions, they are welcomed by the people, management of these institutions. And this is your version. It is just contradictory. I accept your version. It is quite, quite right. And I hope our institution must do not like that. This ISKCON must not do like that. The well-to-do peoples who come, they'll get more... (break) ...more receptions, more congratulations. I request it must be your direction that our institution ISKCON must not do like this. And it is your... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: But one, one thing is that we are not living like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest: Well, the way, uh, the way it's interpreted, you know, by the people that practice it, is that, uh, you don't extinguish your desires either but they're transformed into the Buddha principles. They say this is the meaning of Mahayana Buddhism, is that you, uh, learn to identify the desire passions with the Buddha principles, and so they become transformed so that...

Prabhupāda: Transformed to what?

Guest: Well, for instance lust is supposed to be transformed into compassion, and the other uh, the other passion desires are transformed to something else.

Prabhupāda: Then it is not nirvāṇa. It is real condition. Then that is our principle. That is not nirvāṇa. Just like...

Guest: Well, this is what I mean by nirvāṇa.

Prabhupāda: You mean, but you the word nirvāṇa. Suppose I take out your eyes. This is one thing. And I...

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Devotee: Gopāla wants to see you. (break)

Prabhupāda: Suppose I take out your eyes. That is nirvāṇa. But if there is some disease, I cure it, that is (indistinct). Suppose cataract, cataract operation.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest: Well, um, whatever the origin, so the word may be etymologically, the way it's used by the people that I'm studying with and the way I understand the meaning of the word is a little different than meaning just uh, sheer nothingness. Sheer nothingness is supposed to be a misunderstanding of what nirvāṇa means.

Prabhupāda: Now you have to understand as it is in the dictionary.

Guest: Well, as it is used by people. You have to understand it as, as it's used, you know, in uh, by, by the people who are using this word to...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means, I have already explained, this is the people take, those who know Sanskrit, nirvāṇa means extinguished. Now, you may have different meaning.

Guest: Right. Words change meaning as time goes on.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Words, I mean their root may be one thing, but then as time goes on the, uh, word doesn't remain, uh, the same as used by uh...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can give your own meaning. What do you mean by nirvāṇa.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Uncivilized. A similar thing is happening in India where the civilization is supposed to be so... And actually it is so, but they have become so degraded that a responsible officer in the government, he is saying that "Bhajana is nuisance." You see. He has no knowledge what, how much valuable, spiritually valuable, bhajana is. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Gandhi accepted Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛti... Gandhi was chanting in temple: Raghupati rāghava. So what they are following? Gandhi was against drinking and intoxication. Now they're introducing. So this is the position of the government. Therefore I suggest that according to the word, so far traffic, we are diverting the ways this way. And let people come here, join with bhajana, take prasādam, and they sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." Let this. And make propaganda that people may come here, and... I am present here. I will speak. The same thing, as it is going on, kīrtana and speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. And after they are convinced, let them sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." In this way, gather public opinion, one point, that bhajana is not nuisance, essential, we want it, and the other thing, we are making gate in and out to get... Submit a plan like that, that this is... There will be no... That may be a small road, lane, but here is a big road. And purchase that land in front and make a gate. Call a good architects, make a nice gate and road. Take this proposition. Our business is there. If we invite people, "Come..." Even without temple, if it is go on like that, people may come and take prasādam, and they give their consent, "Yes, it is nice," that is sufficient. Even there is no temple. Then, if such way, public opinion's created, and the sanction is there, immediately there will be temple. It may take some time. It doesn't matter. So far satyagraha (?) is concerned, it will be useless. Hungry people, they are making satyagraha, and they are replied with fire, killing them. In Patna it has become so.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Advanced in knowledge, who can teach other people nicely. And they can guide. There must be. That brāhmaṇa means spiritual guidance, kṣatriya means material guidance. So these things are necessity. But where are those brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas? They are training everyone śūdra. Work hard like hogs and dogs and fill up your hungry belly. That's all. This is the modern civilization. (break) ...Kali-yuga's symptoms: dakṣyam udaraṁ bharitaḥ. One man is supposed to be very expert who has learned how to fill up his belly. That's all. No other knowledge is required. Whether you have sumptuously put foodstuff within your belly. And then it is... You are very expert person. (break) ...saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). That is mentioned in the śāstra, that those who have got good brain, in this age they will perform this yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. Sumedhasaḥ. Others they will bother with so many things, but this yajña should be introduced, and people should be engaged in performing this yajña. Then everything will be all right. (break) Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. This is the process. If you don't perform yajña, there will be no sufficient rain, and if there is no sufficient rain, there is no sufficient food products. And if there is no food products, then how you will...? Simply by political agitation you will be happy? And that has happened. There is no food. Simply talks, in the assembly, in the conference, in the meeting. But there is no food. Food is selling at four rupees a kilo. Where is yajña? (break) "...need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of yajña," or "Kick aside all these things. Simply make śūdras." Now, how you will be happy? There is no food, there is no cloth, there is no shelter. That's all.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): In this context, how do you see the government of India?

Prabhupāda: I do not wish to speak of any particular government. But generally, everywhere the government is not very good. Even in America, the president is not liked.

Guest (5): Swamiji, India is supposed to be a land of spirituality.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (5): How is it that there is so much moral degradation in our country?

Prabhupāda: Because you did not lead them, you did not teach them spiritual books. You allowed them to read Communist books.

Guest (5): Is it the failure of our spiritual leaders?

Prabhupāda: What is a spiritual leader? First of all we have to think..., if the businessman is not spiritual leader.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: It said that eight people were shot in Aurangabad with student riots, and the police got their guns and they started to shoot all the people. The same thing is happening in Gaya. The students are protesting against this and that. It said that they were protesting against degradation.

Prabhupāda: Degradation?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. That is supposed to be the reason for their rebellion. They are protesting against corruption and degradation.

Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles." That they will not do. Will they do?

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. In Bombay also, we can go without Deity or... Things are going on. There is no hindrance. Our members are coming. They are becoming members. You see? There is no difficulty. (break) You know the parliamentary question?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Parliament questioned that "These Americans, they are supposed to be..." What is that? "CIA. CIA." Is there any information to the government? "Besides that, they have got fabulous money. They are spending. Wherefrom they get the money? And if they are CIA, then what steps the government is going to step, take against them?" So the reply was three. First reply was "The government has no information that they are CIA people. Therefore the third question doesn't require to be answered, what steps? And so far their fabulous money, it is understood they collect by selling their literature and public contribution." Yes. Home member replied like this.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa Śaṅkara Śāstri from Nariya(?) (indistinct) place.

Prabhupāda: He's a learned scholar, I know.

Dr. Patel: He had also returned (indistinct) In Nariya(?) he's supposed to be the best scholar in Sanskrit, not only a big bhakta also a Vaiṣṇava. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...there is no saptāha. (break)

Girirāja: "...is so potent that the more one advances in this line, the more he loses his attraction for material life."

Dr. Patel: People used to prostrate themselves.

Prabhupāda: All right. That is artificial.

Dr. Patel: I have read somewhere. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is not the way.

Dr. Patel: Have you read it? I have read it.

Prabhupāda: Even I do not... No. These are all nonsense.

Girirāja: "One who is actually deriving..." (break)

Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease, to become lusty. So if one actually hears from the authority rāsa-līlā, then he is no more lusty. That is the test. That is the test.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that when you're working in the land...

O'Grady: That's what you're supposed to be doing.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when you give the results of that for God, that's the perfection of your work.

O'Grady: I know that. I'm aware about that. And when you come in from working on the land and you are eating your dinner, you must do it with the same involvement as you worked the land with, if that is your purpose of...

Yogeśvara: You could say, with the same consciousness.

O'Grady: Yes, with the same consciousness, with the same dedication, with the same devotion, absolutely. And when there's supposed to be singing, the same way, enjoying yourself the same way, and when you're relaxing, you've got to do it with the same devotion, absolutely. No question about it. Otherwise you're being irresponsible. We should go. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming.

O'Grady: We'll see you on Tuesday, hopefully. (guests leave) (end)

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Monsignor Verrozano: What do you think about this...

Prabhupāda: No. Man is supposed to be elevated position, how to love God. Animals cannot make (break) ...any distinction between a human being and animal. That is really the symptom of God, that sarva-yoniṣu... Just like if I am obedient son of my father, how can I neglect one son who is very stupid? Rather, if I say to my father, "Father, this son is stupid. He does not bring any service. So please allow me to cut his head," the father will never agree. The father, either a stupid son or very intelligent son, he is kind to everyone, because they are sons. So similarly, if a man is real lover of God, he cannot cut throat of the animals. I think, therefore, Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." That is not... If actually one is lover of God, how he can give trouble, pains, to others? That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: In Greenland?

Prabhupāda: Others cannot live locally.

Satsvarūpa: That's not their karma?

Prabhupāda: No, karma is there. That is another point. My point is that any condition, one can live locally. That is my point. They are supposed to be uncivilized, and they live in the ice cottage. There is no sufficient things for eating. And how they live? That is the point. So why civilized man cannot live locally?

Satsvarūpa: One objection to that is that they say that now cultures have been spread more by all this transportation. You even write that the world is now like a global village. But if everyone just stays in their own place, they won't know what people and culture is like in other parts of the world, and their view will be more narrow.

Prabhupāda: No. They may go sometimes. Just like in India, they used to live locally, but at the same time they used to go to the pilgrimages by walking. It is not prohibited that one should not go out, but when one goes out, he goes out of pleasure, not as obligation. At the present moment, it has become an obligation, that one must go out of his home, of his village, of his country. That is defective. There was no need of so many transports. People remained locally. One has to go for livelihood hundred miles. This is defective.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Thank you very much. I come from the International Labor Organization which is an organization in the United Nations family. It's the second organization after the United Nations itself, and it's interested in every form of labor, every form of activity connected with labor, and the protection of the worker, the welfare of the worker. And in many respects, of course, our preoccupations must overlap with yours in certain respects of the activities, of man in general and his protection and his well-being.

Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, the labor class man is supposed to be the fourth-class man. First-class man, intelligentsia, very intelligent, learned. Or intelligent—one who can understand up to God. To understand God requires great intelligence. So first intelligent class of men, up to, so they are called brāhmaṇa. The next intelligent class man, those who give protection to the society, kṣatriya. And the third class, those who produce food and distribute. They are third class. And other, all others, they are fourth class.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman, yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11), it is the same idea. Brahman, Holy Ghost, is impersonal, but Son is person and God is also person. I do not know much about, but I have heard from Christians that there is assembly of God, and Lord Christ has got a seat by the side of God. Is not that explained?

Devotee: It's on His right hand.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: On his right side he's supposed to be seated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all personal ideas.

Devotee: And they say also, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name."

Prabhupāda: "Hallowed be Thy name."

Devotee: "Hallowed be Thy name."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: So we should be able to see the quality of man we are preaching to.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to make him intelligent. Everyone is fool, mūḍha. Everyone within this material world is supposed to be a fool. Because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So he's fool. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Frenchman," "I am this," "I am that." What is the difference? A cat is thinking, "I'm cat." A dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if somebody thinks that, in relationship with the body, "I am Frenchman," "I am Englishman," "I am...", then where is the difference between the cat and the dog? He's thinking himself as this body. Therefore everyone is thinking, at least in this modern world, the so-called nationalism, everyone is thinking, "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "black," "white." So everyone is fool. Is it not? Yes. He's thinking in a way what he is not. Therefore he's a fool. All these big, big political leaders, Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill, and in Europe , they fought with this consciousness, "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am Frenchman." That's all. Even the big, big leaders, they are fools. And what to speak of common men?

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Where?

Bhagavān: In the United States.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And that is supposed to be the brāhmaṇa class too, the professors. They're the educated class of people.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not brāhmaṇas. Those who give education in exchange of money, they are not brāhmaṇas. Just like we are lecturing, educated, educating people. We don't say that "Give us salary." We simply ask them, "Please come." Therefore we are making food. I'll give you food. I'll give you good seat. Please come and hear. We are not asking money, that "First of all pay the fees. Then you come and learn Bhagavad-gītā." We never say so. So those, these so-called teachers, they first of all set up salary, "What salary you'll give me?" That is dog's business. That is not brāhmaṇa's business. Brāhmaṇa will never ask. Brāhmaṇa is eager to give lesson only. That's all. Brāhmaṇa is eager to see that people are educated. "Take free education and be educated. Be a human being." This is brāhmaṇa's business. I came here not to ask for any money. But I want to give lesson. This is brāhmaṇa's business.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, we said that, Prahlāda Mahārāja said that he didn't fear Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, even though he was so ferocious, but he feared the material nature.

Prabhupāda: That is contamination. If I be contaminated with the material nature, then I'll have to accept a body given by material nature.

Paramahaṁsa: But it's said that a devotee's supposed to be fearless.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: It is said that a devotee is supposed to be fearless.

Prabhupāda: Fearless because devotee means one who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa. He's devotee. He's fearless. And one who has not taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, how he can be fearless? Suppose there is epidemic disease, if you have got vaccination, then you can remain fearless. Otherwise, the epidemic will contaminate and then you'll have to suffer. So Kṛṣṇa is the vaccination to remain fearless.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You have used the example, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that just like a little child, when he's near his father, he knows he has nothing to worry about. His father will protect him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... Today, it is cold, eh? Where is our Karandhara?

Bhagavān: Karandhara Prabhu. He's here.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: That was Prabhupāda's point that it's ironic that in modern societies men are called professors, or being proficient in knowledge, but yet they're ignorant of the soul, which is the most basic knowledge, the most fundamental knowledge. According to the Vedic system, Indian system, even a most ignorant man knows about the soul, what to speak of the great learned sages. But in this society, western society, the so-called learned men—they're supposed to be the topmost learned men—they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance.

Prabhupāda: And according to Vedic understanding, one who does not understand what is soul—he identifies himself with this body—he is animal.

Church Representative: This is also a fundamental idea of Christian spiritual. (French)

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13), and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national, not outside that, sva-dhīḥ, "They are my own men." sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul?

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Once last year a man in London, a professor in a religious school, said the same thing, and you said that according to our Vedic philosophy, if a teacher doesn't know something, he should step down. And His answer was, "I can't do that." (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Paramahaṁsa: It seems amazing that such fundamental questions, they remain mute, such people like this, who are supposed to be qualified to bring other people out of their distress.

Karandhara: That's why the church now has lost everyone, because even its leaders are saying, "I don't know anything. I'm just fumbling around like everyone else. I don't really know anything definite."

Prabhupāda: Still, he is leader?

Karandhara: Yes.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: When you were here last year, there was a meeting at the Indian Tourist Bureau, a press meeting, and there was a man who came to meet you at that time who is president of the court of Paris. And he was supposed to be a Buddhist. Do you remember this gentleman? He said to you that "Meat-eating... We must eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascals, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they don't want to be saved, if they want to go to hell, who can check? Ātma-han. Ātma-han means "self-suicide." Suicide, yes. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So they are all these like, all, all these Buddhists, Christian. We may not speak very strongly. They will be our enemies.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? It is quite clear for our rational mind, I can understand there is a dead body, and there must be something in him, enough to make it alive. Now, the conclusion, I say there are two things, that my question was how he becomes aware in himself as an experience, not as conclusion, because I realize that on the inner way it becomes important more and more to feel deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper realities. That's why in my little work I make a distinction between the body you have and the body you are. The English language says, talks about "somebody" and "something." "Somebody" means a person. So the body you are. It's the whole of the gestures wherein you express and you present and you miss or you realize your real self. So the body you are. Usually if you go to a doctor he sees only the body you have. He tackles it like a machine. If somebody with shoulders like this, he says, "Well, you must make exercises." If somebody comes to me with shoulders like this, I say, "The body you are, you have no confidence in life. So get an attitude of confidence." So he gets to know the body he is, not only the body he has, which doesn't at all touch at your wisdom.

Prabhupāda: No, as I say, the active principle, I am also the active principle. As I say, the dead body and the living body, difference is, when the active principle is not there, it is dead body. Similarly, I am also the active principle. So 'ham, so 'ham: "I am the same active principle." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this material body." That is self-realization. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: (BG 18.54) "When one is self-realized, then he is jolly." Prasannātmā. He is never morose. He is jolly. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He has no lamentation, no hankering." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "He is equal to everyone, man, animal and everything." And mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: (BG 18.54) "Then devotional life begins." So without self-realization, there is no question of devotional life. Or those who are engaged in devotional service, they are all... Just like these boys, my students, they are trained up how to be always in devotional service. So one who is engaged in devotional service, he is supposed to be already self-realized. Because he has understood "what I am," yes. And then he sticks to devotional service. Otherwise, he cannot. If one thinks, "I am this body," then he cannot be engaged in devotional service, or he cannot stick. He knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." This is self-realization. And then he engages himself in devotional service.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3): This tradition of the names was a tradition that was developed for two thousand years, beginning with the monks, and which most Christians are really not aware of, that through this japa a man can come to consciousness of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, when one comes to God consciousness. And the relationship is "God is great; we are subordinate." Just like the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained. Although the father and the son of the same quality, still, the relationship is the father is the maintainer, and the son is maintained.

Guest (5): That's, of course, not the orthodox Christian interpretation, that's supposed to be. It's very clear by the time the decrees were worked out that Jesus is not a creature. He's incarnate God.

Guest (6): You say that we are creatures, and we are subordinate to God, and I can understand that. Christ was not created.

Prabhupāda: Yes, none of us are created. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā...

Guest (6): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people... In other words you say we are co-eternal with the father just as Christ is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityānām. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā. All these living entity, they are never created; neither they ever die. Nityaḥ śāśvatam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are eternal, ever existing. Even after the destruction of the body, they are not annihilated. So God is eternal.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: But that is everyone's dilemma, that "What is this power?" The scientists, the (sic:) physists, they are seeing the power. The power is working and energy is working. But how it is working, that is further enquiry.

Guest: I have three points. First of all I have nothing... I have seen nothing in Bhagavad-gītā, although it is a work of the most beautiful of all these books which are attributed to God and are supposed to be speaked in the name of God. It is one of the beautiful book among these (Parsi?). But sincerely there is nothing in Bhagavad-gītā about God which you cannot find similar passage, a passage similar to it in Koran or in other teachings. That's my first point. The second point is that if we believe to God and we believe that the God has spoken only through Bhagavad-gītā to, thus, a people who live in a given country, then we are going to have a very narrow-minded God who doesn't love all human beings...

Prabhupāda: No. No there. Here, here I impress...

Guest: He has bestowed all His love to a given people. And my third point is that if we believe God as a life force or who must be discovered by a human being and the human being who has to proceed toward this truth, then also we have no reason to confine this into one people.

Indian man: Swamiji, I may take your leave.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why you are going soon?

Indian man: I have to go still far off.

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. Jaya. Jaya.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: The point is... Yes.

Guest: ...and Muhammad's teaching is supposed to be the superior one. So everybody thinks that his way or his way of thinking, his theory, his religion is the most superior one.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same. But a child's understanding of sun and an elderly man's understanding of sun, a scientist's understanding of sun, or one man who has actually gone to the sun planet, there are different categories. Do you accept or not? The sun is there. God is accepted in every scripture. That is a fact. But in the same way, how far He is understood, that is different. That is different. The same example, that everyone is seeing sun: "Here is sun," there is no doubt. But a child's understanding of sun, his father's understanding of sun, or a scientist's understanding of sun, or a person who has gone to the sun planet, his understanding of sun is different. The objective is the same. And everyone is right. Either you understand fully sun or not, as soon as you come before the sun you get the light. The child is getting the light, the scientist is getting the light, and the ordinary person getting the light. Everyone is getting light, heat and light. But their understanding different, of degrees. (break) ...sun-god or sun, no, we don't say that.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can do also.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Anyway...

Madhudviṣa: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: GBC can do also.

Madhudviṣa: But isn't the GBC supposed to be more trusted than the temple president?

Prabhupāda: Then everyone can do, who has got the...

Bhagavān: The BBT trustees did it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: The BBT trustees also did it. They took unsanctioned loan from the BBT.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what about in a case like myself. I'm a sannyāsī, and I have a traveling saṅkīrtana party. So can I handle that money?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm a sannyāsī with a travelling preaching party. So I have no... Because I am personally seeing to the money, tbere's no debt on that party. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC. (laughter) Best thing is that don't keep money.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: No, I heard the explanation that a nonbeliever should not know it.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Acyutānanda: So they don't say it out loud.

Prabhupāda: No, when we come to argument that... We are supposed to be all believers in God. We are not nonbelievers. We simply want to ascertain who is that God. We are not nonbelievers. Then some persons who believe in God come together so to ascertain who is God. So just like when we come to a meeting to elect a president, so they are not nonbelievers. They are not nonbelievers. As there are so many personalities, candidate for president, now who is the right person to become the president? That is wanted. To the nonbelievers, he has no access. About discussion in God he has no access. When we discuss about God, it is supposed they are all believers. So if you say... Just like we are holding meeting to ascertain... There are so many names of God. Now we ascertain who is real God. God means there should be no more above Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). That is God.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You have got some agricultural experience?

Devotee: Not at all.

Prabhupāda: Not at all. Anyway, that not very difficult.

Devotee: No. I can take advice from the experts. That man with the white beard there, he's supposed to know very much. He's supposed to be very expert, and he speaks English. He's supposed to have agricultural experience.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśodānandana: Jayapatāka had no agricultural experience.

Prabhupāda: Any city boy (indistinct) (end)

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: A delightful idea, a beautiful idea, and a very simple-sounding idea. How about, however, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, who are bound in this...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the... No, Roman Catholics... We don't say that Roman Catholics cannot perform yajña. We say that you chant the holy name of God. So Roman Catholics they have God or not, no God?

Justin Murphy: Well, they think they do a lot of that on a Sunday morning.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, any religious system... Religious system means connection with God. Is it not?

Justin Murphy: Yeah, well, that's what it's supposed to be.

Prabhupāda: Without God, is there any religion? Any religion, is there any religion who will say, "No, we have no God." Is there any religion?

Justin Murphy: No.

Prabhupāda: So we are asking, "Chant the holy name of God." So if you are Roman Catholic...

Justin Murphy: Any man's God.

Prabhupāda: Any man's God. God is one. God cannot be two. But we are thinking...

Justin Murphy: Roman Catholics don't agree with you on that, do they? Roman Catholics have their own God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. That is not the fact. You are born a child, then you get a youthful body, where you are finished? Does it mean that when the childish body is finished, the soul is also finished? Why he remembers, "Oh I was a child like this." This is simple argument. Where you are finished?

Madhudviṣa: You can see the progression. When you are born you are small...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: ...when you die, you are big.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: So that is progression. So how can they say that progression will stop?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another foolishness to say like that, that with the body everything is finished. Where it is finished? (break) ...supposed to be educated, advanced in civilization, and this simple truth they cannot understand. Mūḍha. Where is finishing? Why you are trying to live for many years? Why don't you welcome death? (devotees begin kīrtana) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The spirit is supposed to be stronger than matter. The spirit is superior than matter. So it seems that... Well, what happens when the body dies? Is the spirit forced to leave or does it leave on its own accord?

Prabhupāda: No, it is by nature forced.

Madhudviṣa: But that is material.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Madhudviṣa: Isn't nature material?

Prabhupāda: Yes, material nature, yes.

Madhudviṣa: So how is material forcing something spiritual?

Prabhupāda: You have voluntarily accept her supremacy. Just like you have accepted some disease. So disease is forcing you. And if you cure, then it will not be able to force you. You infect some disease. Then you become forced by the disease to accept the miseries. But if you are not diseased, there is no question of force. If you become criminal, the police forces you. And if you are not criminal you have no business with the police. It is like this. Police control, controller—the controlling power upon me comes when I am criminal. Otherwise why police will control me? Therefore I voluntarily accept the control of police by my criminal desires. That is going on. That is material life.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Raymond: Well, thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: For your son and father-in-law.

Raymond: So we decided to get all of my father-in-law's friends. He doesn't know yet, and I'm supposed to pick him up, you see, and I was supposed to be there over an hour ago.

Prabhupāda: So you must go on. Oh, yes. It is very nice. It is very nice function. The father-in-law, the grandson. (chuckles) Give some prasādam for them also.

Madhudviṣa: He invited everyone over to one, Ugraśrava's, house one night. We had a big party, and Wally came and Raymond came, and they became very much addicted to prasādam. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Make his father-in-law also interested.

Raymond: Well, he was here on Sunday. He came down on Sunday.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes? So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice. We can make friend anyone. So you are going? Thank you very much for your coming.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because the psychologists, they are like the gurus nowadays. Rather than reading philosophy books or religion books, everyone is reading psychology books like this I'm OK, You're OK. It was a big best seller. So now Dr. Gerson, he wants to inject in this psychology field... Anyone who is thinking, "Who am I?" He is reading psychology books. This is supposed to be the science of self-realization today. So they're actually more influential than philosophers.

Prabhupāda: Have they advanced about "Who am I?"

Dr. Gerson: So I would like to inject into this system Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is very good. If the scientists, philosophers, they take up seriously then it will be good for the general mass of people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). You are recognized leaders, so if you help them to accept, that will be great service.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: It is good...?

Prabhupāda: Because it has got Indian climate.

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes. There's a very high altitude. It's a mile high. They call it "the mile high city." Because it's five thousand feet above sea level. It's supposed to be good for health.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in India up country. Up country, in northern India. It is very good health, Punjab, because up country. (break) ...place Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says,

māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti

bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī

aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ

yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham

A man who hasn't affectionate mother at home, neither very good wife, so he should immediately give up that home and go to the forest because for him it is as good, either you remain in forest or in home." (chuckles) How intelligent.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: Perhaps only in India will you find people in...

Prabhupāda: Yes, some. That is also deteriorating. (break) The sattva-guṇa... the Māyāvādī, they are also supposed to be in sattva-guṇa, but mixed with rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Therefore not pure.

Devotee (2): You were saying that when one is in the mode of goodness, that he is on the mental platform?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Does that mean that he's not... He's experiencing the subtle body inside of the gross body, or what does that mean exactly?

Prabhupāda: Mental platform is mixed sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, not pure. But if you keep always Kṛṣṇa in your mind, then you are purified. The mind has no other opportunity to keep anything else. Kṛṣṇa is sitting there, then guarantee. (break) ...they keep always seeing Viṣṇu form within the heart. Therefore they keep in sattva-guṇa. Similarly, if you keep Kṛṣṇa, then you are in sattva-guṇa. And when that concentration on Kṛṣṇa is not disturbed, then it is śuddha-sattva. That is spiritual platform. (break) ...ekādaśī?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Guest: ...here in America they are fighting to become independent. And also abortion. They are fighting that the abortion should be there. Now this your message, is conveyed through the reporters and I would like the reporter to assess the reaction from the masses here, whether Gurukula is sponsoring for the women liberation and equal rights...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you are asking solution of the question who is already in darkness. You should take instruction from Bhagavad-gītā. You are asking women who are supposed to be dependent, and you are asking question from them. To answer will not be from them. The answer, the standard answer, you have to take from the book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. Then the answer will be perfect.

Jayatīrtha: But if the people complain that we send our children to Gurukula at five, but their children they kill before they have a chance to be born. And they say that we are inhuman.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayatīrtha: The people in general, they say that we are inhuman because we send our children at five to Gurukula. But they do not think that they are killing their own children before they have a chance to be born.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore we say there is no first-class men to guide. They are killing child within the womb. They are not given chance to come out and see the light. And we are putting children at five, so we are criminal. They are denying the right of birth. So these things are happening because there is no first-class brain.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Reporter (5): What does he do?

Prabhupāda: He does give you advice. If you take his advice, then you get perfect advice.

Reporter (5): What do the other classes do?

Prabhupāda: Other classes... The second-class, they are supposed to be administrator. They are very... They are also very strong. They do not go away when there is fighting. They have got a ruling capacity, and they are charitable. They have got seven qualifications. So... But he rules according to the advice of the first-class men.

Reporter (5): Then... Well, how about the third and fourth-classes?

Prabhupāda: Third-class means they should engage themselves, how to produce food and give protection to the cow. It is said...

Reporter (5): The cow?

Prabhupāda: Cow, yes.

Reporter (2): The cow?

Prabhupāda: Yes, cow, from where you get milk, that cow. So the exact word is used in Sanskrit, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Vaiśya, the third-class man, is called vaiśya. So his duty is how to produce food, food grains, for both for the animals and the man. And he gives protection to the cows. As the second-class man, the administrator, he gives protection to the human being from danger, similarly, the third-class man is entrusted to give protection to the cows. Cow is very important animal in the society because it is supplying milk, the most nutritious food. And... Find out. This is the third-class man's duty. And the fourth-class man means general worker. He has no brain, he simply helps the other three classes: first-class, second-class, and the third-class. And below the fourth-class men, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class. So they are called lower class, less than the fourth-class. So the society should be generally divided into four classes. As I have given example, there is head, arm, belly, and leg.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: You will find in practical psychology.

Reporter: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Practical psychology.

Brahmānanda: She's asking where does woman fit into this structure?

Prabhupāda: Now, woman is supposed to be assistant of man. If woman is faithful wife of the first-class man, then she also becomes first-class. If she is assistant of the second-class man then he is also second-class. If she is assistant of the third-class man, then she is also third-class. Because she is assistant, so, according to her husband, or protector, she becomes first, second, third, fourth.

Reporter (3): But she doesn't have any structure at all until marriage?

Prabhupāda: No, she has got structure—she has got brain. I have already told. But not as good as man's brain.

Reporter (3): You means she's not qualified as first, second, or third-class until she marries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Woman requires to be protected—in childhood by the father, in youthhood by the husband, and in old age by the elderly sons.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Harikeśa: They may bring up the argument that they are not concerned that they have to bear children just as long as they can be superior.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This argument is like: "You go on beating me with shoes; still I am independent. I don't mind you are beating me with shoes, but I am independent." It is the argument like that.

Devotee (1): There were supposed to be some aldermen here, but one of them was a woman and it has been on the news already about what you've said and she doesn't want to come now.

Prabhupāda: Alderman?

Brahmānanda: They're like city council men. But in this case it's a city councilwoman. So she has refused to come because the comment... There has been a lot of publicity created. (laughter) So they are speaking on the radio that "The Swamiji has come to solve all the problems by saying that woman is inferior to men."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. (laughter) So what the man says?

Harikeśa: They are being quiet. They are too afraid to say.

Prabhupāda: That means they are accepting. When they are quiet... Quiet means... Maunaṁ śammati lakṣaṇam. If there is some argument and you remain quiet that means indirectly you accept.

Harikeśa: They are thinking that if the man were to speak out, then he would not be able to get his sex pleasure. The woman would withhold sex pleasure from the man if he were to speak out.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. At least in America, I know, they pay man for sex pleasure. Is it not a fact? Eh?

Jagadīśa: I didn't hear, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes woman pays man for sex pleasure.

Jagadīśa: Sometimes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So you explain.

Jayatīrtha: He said you can become humble by becoming aggressive for Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) One girl was asking that "When we are doing saṅkīrtana, I must be very aggressive, but when I come to the temple, then I'm supposed to be very humble." Prabhupāda's answer was...

Prabhupāda: "A lamb at home, a lion in the chase." (laughter) When you are chasing, you must be a lion. (laughter) But when you come home, you do not try to chase the devotees. (laughter)

Guest: Swami, what about those who practice one of the other religions in...?

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. I have repeatedly said. Religion is to abide by the orders of God. Nobody knows what is God, and nobody knows what is the order of God. Or even if one knows, he does not carry it. So how there can be religion? If you abide by the state laws, then you are lawful, but if you do not abide by the state laws, how you can become lawful? If you violate the laws, how you can become lawful? If you follow religion, then you must follow strictly the religious principles. And if you have no business to follow the religious principles, how you can become religious? Is it possible?

Guest: I understand what you're saying. You're saying you cannot do practices and commit sin, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are, in every religion, there are principles. If you don't follow them, then how you become religious? Therefore this is my question. So nobody is following religious principles at the present moment. Therefore practically there is no religion. Everything is finished. We are trying to revive. If you follow religious principle, then it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Mohammedan or Hindu or Buddha. Then you are religious. But if you do not follow any religious principle, then how you become religious?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Ohh! Just see.

Yadubara: In 1963 they had... I think they put these things up, but so many people were committing suicide by jumping.

Prabhupāda: Why they were committing suicide?

Yadubara: Because everyone was very depressed. This is supposed to be enlightenment, a place of knowledge. But everyone was very depressed.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university and they taught me in psychology, and it was a priest. And they were teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use these textbooks that teach this materialism.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. The size is there in the Bhāgavata.

Paramahaṁsa: In Stockholm, Prabhupāda, in the museum, they have a whole room, and in the room there is all these... There's American flag and Swedish flag, and there's a whole exhibit with one teeny little rock about as big as my finger nail that the Americans gave the Swedes. It's supposed to be a rock from the moon. And they said in it that it's exactly as any kind of rock that you'll find on earth. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: They say? It is simply cheating. They found this in Arizona, somebody... (laughter) And laboratory work.

Bahulāśva: I have been trying to arrange a meeting between Your Divine Grace and that astronaut. He was going to come to Rathayātrā, but he had to go to Florida for some space project.

Prabhupāda: What does he say, astronaut?

Bahulāśva: He says that... His name is Edgar Mitchell, and he was one of the men who went to the moon. But we talked, and he said... He thinks he has gone to the moon. But he said that when he was there, he had a religious experience, and he felt that there was a God. When he went to the moon, he had this experience. So when he came back, he was telling all his scientist friends what his experience was. So they became very afraid, and they kicked him out of the space project. They thought he had become a fanatic, religious sentimentalist, so they kicked him out. So now he has opened up an institute for noetic sciences or... It is some Greek word. It means like spiritual sciences. He wants to prove to the scientific world that there is God.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is good.

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: ...there? A small bird!

Jayatīrtha: There's one expression in America, "Free as a bird." People think that the birds are more free than they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Devotee: Also "The birds and the bees." Culminate (?) in sex life. (break)

Satsvarūpa: Balboa Park. He was a Spanish explorer. He's supposed to be the first one to see the Pacific Ocean.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayatīrtha: He was the first white man to discover California, I think?

Satsvarūpa: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: First man to see the Pacific?

Yadubara: Yes.

Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Well, we are not very much concerned with political situation. But our proposition is—either political, social, economical or philosophical, anything—without Kṛṣṇa, it is all zero. So far Mrs. Gandhi is concerned, she is inclined to some spiritual understanding. So actually if she becomes very advanced spiritually, then this emergency situation will improve. Otherwise... and it is the public opinion against democracy. So democracy is not very much beneficial anywhere and everywhere. In your country also, you voted Mr. Nixon, democracy, but you were not satisfied with him. That means democracy, ordinary men they select somebody and again they try to bring him down. Why? When he was selected, it means it was a mistake. So according to Vedic civilization, there was no such thing as democracy. It was monarchy, but the monarchy means the king was very highly spiritually advanced. The king was called rājarṣi, means king, at the same time, saintly person. We have got another example in our country-Gandhi. When he was political leader, he was practically dictator, but because he was a man of very high moral character, people took him, accepted him as the dictator. So dictatorship is good, provided the dictator is highly qualified spiritually. That is the Vedic verdict. The battle of Kurukṣetra was there because Lord Kṛṣṇa wanted rājarṣi, Yudhiṣṭhira, should be on the head. So the king is supposed to be the representative of God. So he must be a godly person. Then it will be successful. That's all right. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: CIA.

Harikeśa: Yes. Because we have so many nice things. Where else could we...

Brahmānanda: They think it is the mercy of the CIA.

Prabhupāda: My Godbrother says-Tīrtha Mahārāja—that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Kṛṣṇa said, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 9.22) "I take the responsibility of his expenditure." Kṛṣṇa says, and they are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they are thinking, "American government is doing, not Kṛṣṇa." Such fools and rascals, they are head of..., a spiritual head. Karmīs, jñānīs—everyone is envious of our... And they are trying to speculate how to admit: "Where he gets money? Where he gets money?"

Harikeśa: That man in San Francisco? The photographer? He was always trying to take pictures of your rings and always trying to take pictures of all the rich things on the altar. He was trying to make a story like that. They try to show that you are enjoying.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: They are trying to show that you are enjoying.

Brahmānanda: Even in Chicago the one, the woman who wrote the article, the 34-ounce? She said how "You looked at your gold watch." That was in the article, such an important thing.

Prabhupāda: Nityānanda Prabhu used to decorate Himself with very costly ornaments. Your teeth does not look very clean.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- August 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Oh. Well, we were considering demolishing this one.

Prabhupāda: Demolishing.... Saurabha said that cannot be... Here we cannot build?

Saurabha: Well, we have to have a certain amount of garden space, and according to the master plan this is supposed to be garden. Otherwise we're not allowed to build any other building there.

Prabhupāda: No. Then, above that, that side we shall build.

Saurabha: Very big building.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, big... Here you can simply have one story more. And what about this land?

Saurabha: This is used now for storing sand. That land or this?

Prabhupāda: No, no. This.

Saurabha: This will be garden also, but now we keep for storing because we need that for sand here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If we have to add a second floor there we can make it a BBT warehouse, exactly as per your directions.

Prabhupāda: And why not others? BBT warehouse, there are so many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, a big room will be very good, so when we construct that, we can have a big hall.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Brahmānanda: He's some Italian astronomer. He invented the telescope.

Prabhupāda: Invented telescope?

Brahmānanda: So they could speculate about the stars and planets. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...all the British names out and replaced them with Italian and Indian and other names.

Tejas: Many Muslim names they have replaced also. Because they are supposed to be historical. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the road. This is the bus. (break)

Tejas: Many of the members are reading the books now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One man, he is coming tonight. He has read your Bhagavad-gītā six times now. He is very enthusiastic. Now he is thinking that he has wasted his whole life. That's the way he talks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes to that conclusion, then he becomes perfect.

Tejas: He told me, "I have read so many Bhagavad-gītās previously, but never was the commentation clear. I could not understand the meaning."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They simply jugglery of words.

Tejas: All impersonal.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as nāstika. But vedāśraya nāstikya vada. These rascals, they accept Vedas and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bauddha ke adhika: "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the Deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is māyā. And more advanced than these atheists.

Brahmānanda: The Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: More... Not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.

Pṛthu-putra: I read in one of your books so many names about different groups of these Māyāvādī philosophers. Are they still existing today and active?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who thinks godlessness, he is Māyāvādī, that's all. Anyone. All these impersonalists, they are all Māyāvādīs. And mostly they are now impersonalists.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Kartikeya: There is some difficulty, so they have abolished the post for the moment.

Prabhupāda: No post is required.

Kartikeya: Only for applying the people.

Prabhupāda: Simply it is prize post. Nobody does anything. Simply they draw salary. All these ministers, they do nothing. Just like Indira Gandhi is supposed to be very big plan-maker. So what she has done for the people? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi)

Harikeśa: Whenever we have to go to a government office, there are six men sitting, and only one is doing work, and all are getting salaries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Last time we stayed where? Nearby?

Kartikeya: Mehtabhai Patel's. It is a little bit away from this place, only one mile from here. That Dr. Patel and another Dr. Patel is there.

Prabhupāda: His father-in-law?

Kartikeya: Father-in-law. P.M. Patel. (break) They were trying to arrange if you'll come. (break)

Girirāja: One boy said he wants to join.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should join. All will go to hell. That is not good. At least one or two may be saved. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: ...here?

Kartikeya: There are many small parks, but biggest park is here. One is at Kakaiya(?), near the lake. That old lake is... A five-hundred-(year)-old lake is there.

Prabhupāda: This is supposed to be the biggest.

Kartikeya: Because here people are only after money, so they are not care to give charity for any park when it is (unclear). There is no private charity.

Prabhupāda: It is the duty of the municipality. (break) ...program?

Madhudviṣa: The whole thing was completely packed.

Prabhupāda: Who spoke?

Devotee (1): Acyutānanda Mahārāja.

Kartikeya: In Hindi.

Prabhupāda: In Hindi?

Kartikeya: For more than one hour.

Harikeśa: In Hindi?

Kartikeya: Yes. One hour he spoke. About ten percent English words, twenty-five percent Sanskrit, and rest in Hindi.

Devotee (1): He spoke very nice.

Kartikeya: People were very happy, and they could understand.

Prabhupāda: Philosophy was presented nice?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. Very nice.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Brahmānanda: Park gate is closed.

Kartikeya: We can walk on the road.

Prabhupāda: All right. When it is open?

Kartikeya: Normally six. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...mandāḥ, all bad men. Mandā sumanda-matayaḥ. And if he is supposed to be a good man, he will manufacture some mata, manda-mata, not approved by the śāstras. This is going on. They will not hear Kṛṣṇa. They will give quotation from Brahma-kumārī. This is the greatest defect of modern civilization, that they won't accept real authority. They will create some authority. Or rascal, he becomes authority. Especially in India, this is the drawback. In the Western countries they do not know much about this. Therefore they accept what I say. But here they bring so many. So such an important man, he is bringing authority, Brahma-kumārī, a house of prostitution. If he is bringing their quotation as authority, then what to speak of others? (break) Just like that Christian convent house. They supply woman to rich men, and they supply money. That's all. This is Brahma-kumārī. Rich man, the same disease is there—yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. So if they get facility for some maithuna, they will give you money. (Hindi) ...prostitute, for convent house. Hm? Brahmānanda? Convent house? What is that convent house? It is not prostitution? That's all.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (1): What is alternative? What do you do when...

Prabhupāda: No, no, alternative, that alternative will not correct. That is the defect of Gandhi's movement. He is supposed to be reading Bhagavad-gītā, but he has never said, recommended, Kṛṣṇa worship. That is the defect of his education. Rather, he denied the existence of Kṛṣṇa. "I don't believe if any person as Kṛṣṇa ever lived." This is his concept. Gandhi has written in his life that while his father was dying he was enjoying sex with his wife. You know that?

Indian man (2): Gandhiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has written it.

Indian man (1): It is, after all, only...

Prabhupāda: No, no. After, he became a great sage. That is all right. But in the beginning everyone is subjected. Which way we shall...

Kartikeya: We can go straight.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Brahmānanda, you just take an idea. We shall construct Gurukula in this pattern.

Brahmānanda: This building here, double story.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Double or three-storied.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: (BG 7.23) "Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary." So does this mean that these less intelligent people who are simply interested in temporary benefit... Even they don't worship demigods per se, it could be anyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods... Yes. Just like one who is trying to get some good service. So they are worshiping this boss, that boss. That is also demigod, because without flattering some boss he cannot get some good job; without flattering the voters he cannot get the ministership. That is demigod worship. They have to flatter somebody. Why this Ram Gulab has gone to...? He has to flatter there. This is going on. The big bosses in the United Nation, they are demigods, supposed to be. He thinks, "If I flatter them, then I will be able to keep my position." But he does not think that this position will be lost after some years. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. He has forgotten his eternal life, Kṛṣṇa, and he is flattering these demigods. That's all. What he will gain? He will die. That's all. At the time of death what these United Nation leaders will do?

Cyavana: But we can improve the standard for future generations, for our children.

Prabhupāda: First of all you improve your own condition; then think of future generation. You are going to hell and thinking of future generation. You are going to die, and you are thinking of future generation. Who is your future generation? That is another foolishness. This is asuric civilization. Asuric civilization.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This old fort? This is actually called "Old Fort" isn't it? This part is built around a commemoration to a very old military fort. British.

Prabhupāda: Where is that fort?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's supposed to be some kind of museum over here. I don't think the fort is still standing.

Prabhupāda: And where are the fort makers? (laughter) Where they have gone?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They were shot out of the cannon.

Prabhupāda: So what is the meaning of this fort? If the fort makers are themselves finished, then what is the use of making fort?

Devotee (2): "Why should we live anymore? We're not getting any pleasure out of life. There's no future. Why should..." People are happy to die these days, because there is no pleasure.

Prabhupāda: There is no... Who said there is no pleasure?

Devotee (2): Well, in this world. I mean, this world is more or less suffering.

Prabhupāda: No, they say, "There is no pleasure," so then why you are wasting your time for pleasure?

Devotee (2): Yes, but they are confused.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want to enjoy, but they're not finding pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we give you enjoyment. Come to Kṛṣṇa. No tree?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There are some mango trees behind the house where we're staying, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: You have got children?

Indian man: Yes. Two boys.

Prabhupāda: I was talking just now that the Indians here are better situated than in India.

Indian man: Than in India. Correct.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started his movement here. He was failure. But in India it is supposed to be successful. But at the present moment, after independence, Indians are very horribly situated.

Indian man: Very horribly situated.

Prabhupāda: They have no food even.

Indian man: Yeah. Is it because of the people?

Prabhupāda: May be. What is the cause, I do not wish to discuss. But you are better off here. I see.

Indian man: I was going to India for some knowledge, you see? You know, to the āśramas there. And I couldn't go, you see.

Prabhupāda: How did you know that you'll get some knowledge there?

Indian man: Well, I read a few books of the Divine Life Society, you know. And I wanted to go to Hrishikesh, you know.

Prabhupāda: So what is that Divine Life Society? I want to know from you. What is that divinity? Whether it is nonsense or divinity?

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ice was coming down, hail. Hail. Before we went to the program there was hail, ice coming down. It's gone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the window there was "cut, cut." (break) ...African government policy to keep these Africans', er, service, yes, for working, get money. They will remain happy in that way. They have no brain. They cannot govern. It is not possible. So this policy is nice.

Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.

Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.

Harikeśa: Africa.

Prabhupāda: Africa or similar, other places. They were living in best places, like India. Now the number of sinful persons are increasing. Therefore they have been transferred here.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: America?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They came by the chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some fish? No.

Brahmānanda: In the Old Testament, God was speaking to Moses. So Moses wanted to see God. He was on a mountain. And he turned around, but then God became a burning bush.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was supposed to be the back of God. The burning bush was the back of God.

Prabhupāda: Burning bush?

Brahmānanda: A bush that was on fire.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: That's what...

Prabhupāda: God has no material body.

Brahmānanda: Because he was not qualified to see God.

Prabhupāda: Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa nāmādi na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By these material senses, you cannot understand God. Nāmādi. Even you cannot understand His holy name. Our understanding of God begins by chanting the holy name. So by chanting, chanting, because God is not different from the name, you associate with name..., er, with God, and then you become cleansed. This is the process. God is not different from His holy name. So you chant the holy name of God. That means you associate with God immediately. Just like you associate with the sun immediately, er, sunshine—you become warm—similarly, by associating with God, you become God conscious. This is our program. We are giving chance people to associate with God directly by chanting His holy name. God is omnipotent. His name is as omnipotent as He is. These fools, they do not know that.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture. That is...

Dr. Patel: That's right, sir. God must have some, something to fulfill.

Prabhupāda: Take for example our big leader, Mahātmā Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"

Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of nationalism?

Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...

Prabhupāda: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Ah, those rājarṣis. A king like Janaka.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should be rājarṣi. Otherwise he has no power to become king. He should be rejected. There are instances. Just like Vena Mahārāja. He was not rājarṣi, so he was killed by the brāhmaṇas: "Get down." There are instances. Then Pṛthu Mahārāja became king.

Dr. Patel: Pṛthu was the incarnation of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So king is supposed to be representative of God if not incarnation.

Dr. Patel: That's right. Then he is above law.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because God is above law. But these people are representatives of the foolish, ignorant majority, and majority is made up of fools. Wise people are few.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Jaya. Fools' paradise. Eh?

Dr. Patel: That's right. We are living in fools' paradise. If the whole today universe was governed as it is ordained by Vedas and Vedic philosophy and laws, there would not have been any difficulty for us. But from time immemorial, even in the very place of the cradle of Vedic civilization, there were all these types of wars and (Hindi) and daityas and devas and all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got some... (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy to make everyone the first-class human being. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇair tatra samasate suraḥ (SB 5.18.12). Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you want to qualify the human society with all good qualities, then bhagavad-bhakti is the only means. Otherwise not.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...Caitanya Mahāprabhu was sixteen years old, He defeated one great Kāśmīrī paṇḍita, Keśava Kāśmīrī.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Yes. I have read it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...Digvijayi. And when he came to Nabadwip, then he was defeated by a boy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nimāi Paṇḍita.

Dr. Patel: The ancient times, in Śaṅkarācārya's time, Kashmir was supposed to be the...

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the evidence of His scholarship in the argument with Keśava Kāśmīrī and Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Two places He has proved Himself as greatest scholar of the.... Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...read that portion, ātmarāma ca munayo?

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. I have just day before yesterday. I am reading Bhāgavata again. I am in the sixth adhyāya, after nearly finishing all the vṛttānta of Nārada Muni's previous birth and all this. Ātmarāma. Yes. That śloka is repeated by so many Vaiṣṇavas everywhere.

Prabhupāda: (break) You are going to canvass for books? No.

Devotee: I think it's a good idea but we don't have permission yet from the government to do that. We can't do that as yet. (break)

Prabhupāda: Now we have to get permission for selling. We have got to.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They will have to divert because both, either Chinese or Russian, these are all rascaldom. It is not perfect system.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But the chairman of the Russian Communist Party, Mr. Brezhnev, he has about fifteen foreign cars. Each time a foreign dignitary goes, he gives him a special car. So everyone is supposed to be equal, but he is not equal. He has fifteen cars for himself. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...clean city. (break) It is not the same New Delhi as five or ten years before. Huh?

Tejās: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How long you are here?

Tejās: Five years, four and a half years.

Prabhupāda: So what do you think?

Tejās: Everything is deteriorating.

Harikeśa: Vṛndāvana is much cleaner than this, and they are supposed to be very poor.

Prabhupāda: Because in Vṛndāvana there are less rascals and here it is full of rascals. That is the difference. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Rascal means the nondevotees. They have no good qualification. Kuto: "Where is good qualification?" And "No, they are so civilized. They are educated." But the answer is, mano-rathena: "Whatever they may be, they are on the mental platform." Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ: "Because they are on the mental platform, certainly they will hover over the external energy. Therefore they have no good qualification." Bahir-artha-maninaḥ. Simply speculating on the external feature.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Akṣayānanda Swami: ...big, big meal. They would be sitting eating for one hour. Then in the morning they were all tired and very dull.

Prabhupāda: Huh huh. (laughing)

Akṣayānanda Swami: Then again at lunch time and after that again sleep. They couldn't do anything else, there was no time for preaching or for distributing books or... But yet they were supposed to be doing 64 rounds. That was in Vishakapatnam.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Akṣayānanda Swami: They were all very fat.

Prabhupāda: What is time now?

Devotee: Five to seven. ...here now. I've never been there but I heard there are a lot.. reports Cit-sukhānanda prabhu is there now.

Prabhupāda: Haa.

Akṣayānanda Swami: ...(Gauḍīya Maṭha) devotees, your godbrothers and the older devotees are all looking to be pretty alright, but the younger ones, our age, they are unable to continue...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa (to a bypasser).

Akṣayānanda Swami: ...keep the standard. And many of them they have tried to come and join us.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Akṣayānanda Swami: Many of them, they ask to join us even though they are initiated by others. So should we allow them to come or...?

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So these people, they realize arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). By severe austerity and penances they rise to the Brahman platform, but from there they fall down. Why? Adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because brahmam platform means to be engaged in devotional service. Brahma bhūyāya kalpate. Mām ca yo'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena (BG 14.26). If you want to stay on the Brahmam platform, then you must render service to Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply realize that "I am Brahman," then you'll be misguided by māyā: "Oh, you are the Supreme Lord. You are Bhagavān. What is the use of worshiping another Bhagavān? You are Bhagavān." māyā says it in a different way. māyā says that you are a rascal, but think that you are Bhagavān.

Dr. Patel: This ātmarāma supposed to be tolerant.

Prabhupāda: So the rascals, under the dictation of māyā, they are thinking "I am God," that's all. They have no intelligence even, that "How I can be God?"

Dr. Patel: Sir, even Śaṅkarācārya has taught the kuru-bhakti. But these rascals who are following Śaṅkarācārya, they are not following correctly. He was doing bhakti, bhaja govindam he has...

Prabhupāda: Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govinda... He has asked, mūḍha-mate. One who is rascal, he does not worship Govinda. In this he says, "You rascal, nahi nahi rakṣati duḥkṛṅ karaṇe, prāpte sannite koro marame. You have learned so much grammar, grammatical jugglery to interpret śāstra in this way, that way. These things will not help you at the time of your death. You rascal, bhaja govindaṁ." Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate. "You rascal!" He says mūḍha! (everyone laughing)

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No sane man will become his devotee. All the manufactured foolish statements, just see. Any commonsense man will immediately say, "Then Śiva is a rascal; he cannot give protection to his devotee." What do you think? Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, does one have to give protection to their devotee if they break the law? Just like if you have a child, and he murders someone, isn't he supposed to be punished? So if someone goes against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even if you are a devotee, shouldn't Śiva concur?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Rāmacandra approached Lord Śiva to kill Rāvaṇa, and he gave permission, although Rāvaṇa was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Śiva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Śiva gives permission to Lord Rāmacandra, "Yes, You can kill Rāvaṇa," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?

Harikeśa: I think Dr. Patel would say that it's not fair, you have fired the opposition.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of fight.