Śyāmasundara: They desire a state of non-willingness. The Buddhists desire a state of no will.
Prabhupāda: No, their philosophy is that willingness is a symptom at a certain condition of material combination. So you dismantle this material condition so there will be no more willing or no more suffering. That is their philosophy. But that is not fact, that's not fact.
Śyāmasundara: You don't think it's possible to stop willing?
Prabhupāda: No, how it can be, because you are permanent, you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You do not die even after the destruction of this body, therefore thinking, feeling, willing... (aside:) Go and sleep. The thinking, feeling, willing actually carry you from this gross body to another gross body. How transmigration is taking place? Those who are, I mean to say, gross seer, they see that the body is dead, but he does not know the body is dead, but the willing is not dead. He is being carried away by the willing. That he has no eyes to see. He is simply seeing this gross body is dead, finished, but he has no eyes to see that this soul is now being carried away by the subtle body willing another body. According to his willing he gets another body, gross body, either demigod or dog, as he wills.
Śyāmasundara: As he wills.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the time of death. Because will is the carrier.
Śyāmasundara: Suppose he wills nothing at the time of death?
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is not possible. Even in a dream you are willing so many things. The body is sleeping, completely stopped, but still why you are dreaming? (break) ...does not inquire about his ātma-tattvam, self realization. Whatever he is acting is defeated, parābhava. He is not advancing.
Śyāmasundara: He points out that whenever we gratify our desires, that is so-called happiness, and whenever our desires are frustrated, that is suffering. But our desires are continuously frustrated, they are never satisfied. So he said that we are always suffering, and that the more intelligent a person is, the more he suffers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or by suffering, one's intelligence becomes manifested.
Śyāmasundara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Suffering sharpens the intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Yes, adverse..., blessings of adversity. Just like a businessman, one, he loses some money in some attempt, he becomes more intelligent, that "This account, business, should not be done."
Śyāmasundara: I think yesterday Hegel described it in terms of conflict, that through conflict progress comes out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So here is a perpetual conflict with māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This is a fight against, māyā is putting impediments, what I think it is right, māyā is breaking it.
Śyāmasundara: That's what he sees in it, the irrational.
Prabhupāda: Hitler's plan, Nazism, in so many ways, māyā has broke it into pieces. The Britishers, they also found the British empire, and māyā broke it. Roman empire... So, this frustration. But we are so fooled that in spite of repeated frustration, we are still trying to do the same thing. That is explained in the Bhāgavata, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Chewing the chewed. He has been frustrated in so many ways, in sexual life, divorce this wife, again another accept, another wife. So what is the another wife? The same thing, sex, but he is making he is (indistinct): "Now again another." That is very nicely experienced in your country. In a year, three times divorce, three times accepting. That is named carvita-carvaṇānām, chewing the chewed. He should have experienced that "I am changing, but what is the change? The same sex life. So what is the use of changing?" But he has no intelligence. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). His business has become like that.
Śyāmasundara: He says that because there is no end to our striving...
Prabhupāda: There is end, provided... We can end everything, all these miscalculations, provided he goes to the right person. But that he will not go. He will become self-made philosopher. He will not accept guru.