Students (Conversations 1967 - 1972)

Interviewer: Did you come with the purpose of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am an ordained minister for preaching these missionary activities. So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was traveling in many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in this way I was traveling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting. Then the younger generation began to come to me, and they started the San Francisco branch, Montreal branch. In this way the institution is going. And we have sent our students to Europe also. They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married. And this experiment has proved very successful. I got these young boys and girls married, and they are very happily living, and husband and wife, they are preaching. All my students in London—there are six boys and girls—they were married by me, and they are doing very nicely. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice in everywhere, especially in this country. That is my opinion. And people will be benefited, especially the younger section who were feeling frustration in every respect, and they are now happy. It is practical. Just ask any one of my students how they are happy. You have seen in our temple how happily they are living and dancing from their face. Face is the index of mind. You will understand from their face how happy they are feeling. They are not smoking. They are not taking marijuana or are taking... No. This nonsense we don't allow. Simple food and chanting. That makes them happy. Simple thing.

Prabhupāda: Initiation means formally acceptance of the line of activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Before that, before initiation, we invite everyone to come and sit down with us, chant, dance, take prasādam, hear philosophy. And if he understands, "Oh, this is very nice," then he offers himself to be initiated. Then we accept. Then we impose this restriction that "If you want to be initiated..." We get hundreds of letters by everyone who has attended our classes. Daily we are getting some married couples or boys and girls, but most of them are younger. My students are within thirties. The oldest student I have got at the present moment, he is twenty-eight years. No, Kirtanananda is about thirty years old. That's all. So, of course, I do not get any older people. That is nice, hopeful, because younger section, if they take it very seriously, then I have hopes that they will preach in future, even in my absence. And old people, if a man becomes too much accustomed to a certain limited habits, in old age it is very difficult to give it up unless one is extraordinarily intelligent.

Interviewer: What is the purpose of the robes and having your head shaved?

Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult to understand. Just like you dress in a certain way, I dress in certain way. So we have got this dressing system in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and this is taken from Vedic literature. A brahmacārī should dress like that. And that is very economical. Our dress is saffron dress. It does not become dirty very quickly, and we... (break) This dress is not very important thing, but when one is initiated, he accepts the regulations which I give them. So it is not that if you do not come in that dress in our temple you will not understand our philosophy. That is not... We don't mean that. But it is convenient. But anyone who does not want to change this dress, that does not matter. We don't insist. These brahmacārīs, they voluntarily change. Otherwise there are many students, just like we have got two, three students, they are working. They come just like ordinary American gentlemen. So there is no objection in that way. Dress is not very important thing.

Interviewer: Do you have a name that you call... are they called students? Like, would he be called a student or a...?

Devotee: Brahmacārī.

Prabhupāda: Brahmacārī. We have got four divisions. Those who are not married, they are called brahmacārīs. And those who are married, they are called gṛhasthas. And those who are retired, they are called vānaprasthas. And those who are renounced, they have no connection with anything worldly, they are called sannyāsa. Just like I am a sannyāsī. Sannyāsī mean I have got my family, I have got my wife, children, grandchildren in India, but I have no connection with them. I live alone.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: How about from the crowd?

Prabhupāda: Crowd, of course, whenever there is crowd, it is natural—police do not like it. So we don't create crowd. But generally, people, out of inquisitiveness they gather together and see how they are chanting. They are sympathetic. They contribute. They purchase our books and literature. The people, public is sympathetic. The police are also sympathetic. They don't object when we go at night, but during busy hours, they object. So one of our students was arrested by the police. So he was taken to the court, and I gave them $315 for what is called? Bail. But he was not convicted. He was immediately liberated, and now our money was returned. So it is not a problem.

Interviewer: Were there any followers before you came to this country?

Prabhupāda: No. In this country, of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there was none. It is the first time. I have introduced. But in India it is very, very old, since the advent of Kṛṣṇa, and at least since last five thousand years. So Kṛṣṇa is very popular in India. In every home, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, and there are many millions of temples of Kṛṣṇa in India and followers also. Followers means almost all Hindus are followers of Kṛṣṇa. They read this Bhagavad-gītā. So I have recently published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It is published by Macmillan Company, and this book is very nicely being received. It is being reviewed by several papers. I have got many others books. They are being gradually introduced. Perhaps you have seen in our counter. We have got books, magazines, calendar, and other literatures. So it is a very scientific movement. It is not a sentiment, bogus hoax. Anyone who wants to understand this movement philosophically, scientifically, they will be very much satisfied with this. The idea is that any religious movement without philosophical basis, it is simply sentiment or fanaticism. And philosophy without idea of God is simply mental speculation. Therefore religious principles combined with philosophy, that is perfect. So the younger section become attracted to this movement because we are giving some religious principle based on philosophy.

Prabhupāda: ...consciousness, the next question. Now, this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So for attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there are several stages. The first stage is faith or inquisitiveness. Just like you have come to me. This is the first stage, out of inquisitiveness or some faith, that "These people are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have heard it is very nice. Let us see what it is." This is the first stage. This is the first stage. One should be inquisitive and have little faith or little respect for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "It is very nice, they are speaking, doing nice work." This is the first stage. The second stage is that in the first stage, if you find it, it is interesting, then the second stage is to associate with us, to understand more. Just like we are having our classes three days in a week. We are having class morning daily, but for public we are holding classes in the evening from seven to nine in our temple. Perhaps you know. You have been yesterday there? So we are holding classes there and discussing on this book, having kīrtana, distribution of prasādam. So it is very nice. There is no labor. Simply you come, you hear nice songs, you dance, you take nice food, you hear nice philosophy, and you think over, and you may go home. We don't ask anybody that "You press your nose like this, you make your head down like this, make exercise like this." We don't ask anybody. But people automatically like to dance with us. Although dance is labor, but they like it. So the next stage is to associate with us, to understand more and more. This is the second stage, to associate. First stage, faith and respect, and second stage, association. The third stage, if by association one becomes serious, that "I shall become a regular student of Swamiji," that is third stage. That is called initiation. Just like these boys. They are initiated. So in that stage they are guided by me. They follow strictly. Just like we have got for the initiated students we have got six, four principles. We do now allow illicit sex life. No, we do not allow these boys or girls sex life without being married. Yes. This is one regulation. We don't allow them to take anything which is not offered to the Deity. So we offer to the Deity foodstuff, grains, fruits, flowers, milk products, in that way, no meat, no egg, nothing of the sort. Simple food. They are nutritious. We prepare very... Perhaps you have participated in our love feast in Sundays.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations... We can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds, no. But we make very nice preparations. Everyone likes. So this is one of the restriction, that you cannot take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the second restriction. And the third restriction is no intoxication—no smoking, no drinking, even no tea taking, no coffee taking, nothing: These American boys they are accustomed to all these habits very naturally, but they have given up. They don't take. In our temple there is no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, no cigarette smoking, nothing of the sort, you see. This is the third restriction. And the fourth restriction is that you cannot take part in gambling or some unnecessary sporting because you have to utilize your time. Your time is very short. If you miss this opportunity of human form of life... Because we do not know when death is coming. It is not that because I am old, I am nearing death, and you are young, you are not nearing death. Who knows that you may die before me? So there is no certainty. So the principle is that because this human form of life is so important to perfect oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should not waste even a minute. You see? So therefore we don't allow unnecessary sporting. You see? This is simply waste of time. So no illicit sex life, no meat-eating or animal food, no intoxication, no gambling. So every student has to follow these four prin... Otherwise I don't initiate. I don't take cheap students, that "You can do whatever you like, and you pay me some money. I give you some mantra, and you become God." I don't say like that. I don't bluff like that. I have not come to earn money from your country, but I have come to your country to give you something sublime, not to take you, not to take from you, not to exploit you, but to give you something sublime. You see? So that is the third stage, initiation.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: About the significance of our institution?

Interviewer: No, about the way your clothes, the way you're dressed today. Uh, the robes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī is the highest status of human social division. According to Vedic culture there are four divisions of human society. Brahmacārī, student life; then householder, gṛhastha; and then vānaprastha, retired life; and then sannyāsa life, means preaching transcendental knowledge to the society from door to door. So this dress... In Vedic culture, there are different dresses for different persons. So this saffron colored dress means that he is admitted without any introduction anywhere because he's understood to be a man of transcendental knowledge. And the householders receive them and take knowledge from them. That is the system of Vedic culture.

Interviewer: You also have a garland of flowers around your neck.

Prabhupāda: That is offered by the disciples as a matter of respect to the spiritual master. It is not necessary that a sannyāsī have a garland like this, but if it is offered with respect he does not refuse.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: New York, yes.

Interviewer: How many temples are there now?

Prabhupāda: Now we have got six temples. One in New York, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles, one in Boston, one in Montreal, and one in Santa Fe. And another one of our students has gone to Buffalo, he's on the professional, for starting another temple.

Interviewer: How many people belong to these six temples?

Prabhupāda: In each temple there are average about fifty people.

Interviewer: Fifty people.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Are they mostly young people? From the calls we've been getting and from the people here in the studio...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are invariably all young boys and girls. Yes.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That is, you can call sermon, because there is prayer song and there is, I mean to say, recitation from scriptures...

Interviewer: Well, you have six chapters, so evidently you cannot be everywhere at once. Who is in charge of a temple when you're not here?

Prabhupāda: The students are being trained. The students, they also speak the same thing. There is nothing new. I also speak from the Bhagavad-gītā and the students also speak from the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is the same in all the centers. But it may be because I have little more experience I can explain them a little more nicely. And the students, they also explain according to their experience. But the principle is the same.

Interviewer: Caller, you're on the air on KGO with the Swami.

Caller (woman): Ah, yeah. I'm not involved with it, but I'm curious. I'm wondering if there's any similarity between meditation and hypnosis? In other words, the hypnotic state?

Interviewer: Or is meditation self-hypnosis? Is that what you're asking?

Caller: Is it similar? It sounds like it might be.

Interviewer: Swami?

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is self-hypnosis.

Talk After Lecture -- May 30, 1968, Boston:

Prabhupāda: When the result of the karma is offered to God, then it is karma-yoga.

Satsvarūpa: Swamiji? Can I make an announcement? Swamiji has said there are fifty important pilgrimage cities in India, but as far as we're concerned here, it's whatever city His Divine Grace is residing in. So right now it's Boston. And he will stay here so long as it's the best place to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have some taste for it. You can help us to keep Boston this city of pilgrimage. We need engagements for Swamiji. The universities will be closing... Well, some of them are almost already closed. But if you have any access to a nice engagement, a church or a club where people attend, please approach us and help us to spread in this way. Also we have a love feast here in the temple every Sunday at noon, and this is very sumptuous bhakti-yoga love feast with Indian delicacies that you'll certainly enjoy. So approach this way. We'll take collections at this time also. You can help us very solidly by putting in all that you can. Our next kīrtana is scheduled for Wednesday-Monday, Wednesday, and Friday—but it won't be, because it will be held at MIT instead in the student mezzanine lounge in the third floor at eight.

Prabhupāda: Wednesday there will be no meeting here?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, there'll be no kīrtana. That's the next engagement, May 8th. Also, does anyone have a car? Swamiji lives nine blocks away.

Prabhupāda: You have got a car? Thank you.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was talking that on zero some great swami spoke four hours. And he was very proud that on zero one can speak throughout his whole life. Now I did not... (laughs) But if you can speak on some subject matter for four hours, how it is zero? Just see the contradiction. Gaurasundara, you were present when he was speaking? You heard? If I can speak something on a subject matter, is that subject matter zero? Zero means śūnya. Śūnya means nothing. So how you can speak on nothing? If you can speak on nothing, then nothing is no more nothing. It is something. Just see. But you are so proud. "Oh, he spoke on zero for four hours." I did not contradict because he is newcomer, but I talked on other subject. But this is the position. Suppose you can talk on zero for four hours. Then either you waste your time... Because after all it is zero. The result is zero. Just like you add one million zeros. So what is the value? Zero. So who is a fool that knowing that one million zeros makes zero, why shall I waste my time making so many zeros? So either he is a fool or if zero has so much substance to speak, then how it is zero? If zero has so much value that one can speak on it for hours and hours together, then how it is zero? So people do not understand things very properly. They're so dull. Then he was eulogising the man who spoke on zero for four hours. Yes. That is the system, if you hear a man talking nonsense and people will give cla... Oh! And he's asking what you have understood, "Oh! it is very difficult to explain." Then why you are wasting time? If you cannot express, if you do not understand. Simply people wants jugglery of words, they don't want substance. They don't want substance. That is the difficulty in the mod..., in the present age. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate param (BG 18.46). Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). So you should learn this nice simple fact, that whether by your work Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Personality of Godhead is being satisfied. Just like a student, how he is prosecuting his studies will be tested at the examination how he can satisfy the examiner. Similarly, whatever we may do, we have to enquire or to understand whether by that work the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied. Unfortunately, they do not believe in God, or if they had some ideas of God... Now they say God is dead. So they do not think that it is necessary to please God. That is the difficulty.

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Nayana Abhirāma: Could you tell us about something about Lord Caitanya's production of Vaiṣṇava drama? Are there any of the plays that you know are still extant?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was playing Vaiṣṇava drama in His household life, rather in student life, and He was taking the part of Rukmiṇī, because He was very beautiful young boy. Formerly, in our childhood also, we saw in drama there was no females taking part. If there was a female part, the man would be dressed just like a female. Formerly females are not allowed. If one has to find out a female for taking part in drama, then he has to find out from other quarters, not in respectable part. Now, very, very respectable, educated girls are taking in drama and cinema in India. Formerly this was not possible. And perhaps in the theatrical performances, stage, that was introduced by Lord Caitanya, drama. But His dramatical performances were limited within the devotees. He will not allow to take part in the performance who is not a devotee. So if our devotees... That movie was very nice. That's a good example. If we play, train our devotees to present some dramatical performances or movie, I think it will be very successful, because they will play from transcendental sentiment, not for trade purpose. So that will come out very successful. Yes. In our childhood we had the occasion of taking part in a drama, Caitanya-līlā. I took the part of Advaita, and our friends, others, somebody took the part of Caitanya, Nityānanda.

Prabhupāda: Our process is to accept everything which conduces to develop Kṛṣṇa's love. So those methods are given by experienced ācāryas, that "You just follow." Just like when a child tries to walk, the mother gives some direction or some help in a wooden plank, that "You try to move in this way. You will learn how to walk," similarly, there are certain principles given by experienced ācāryas. If we follow those principles, then we can work or we can go to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not the method that is important. The real important is how to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa. If somebody develops love of Kṛṣṇa, or God, without those methods, there is no objection. We are not limited by the methods or ritualistic methods. But there are certain ritualistic method, which, if one follows, then he can quickly learn the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like we restrict our students in four principles: illicit sex life and intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. So it is not that a gambler or a meat-eater or a man addicted to illicit sex life, he cannot love Kṛṣṇa. It is not that. But that is very rare case. If he follows these principles, then it will be easier for him. Because Kṛṣṇa, or God is pure, so so long one is impure in his habits, it is not possible for him. So these are the purificatory processes. And so far our signals or some marks on the body—just like we take tilaka; we have some beads—this means... Just like it is practical. When I was in Montreal and other cities, when we passed through the road, the children, the persons, they also said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So these marks and this symbolic representation reminds others to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a policeman, as soon as he appears in his dress, "Oh, here is a policeman," so similarly, these things are also required to remind others. Our process is to raise persons to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if by our symbolic representation one immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa, that is our success.

Prabhupāda: Of course, faith is the basic principle of everything. If you have no faith, then you cannot make progress in any line of action. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also... Faith is the basic principle. Just like I have come here. I started my classes in New York. So I was alone chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody came. Naturally, out of inquisitiveness, somebody comes. Somebody came and, "Oh, what this Indian swami is doing? Let me see." So he sat down. Some other came. He sat down. Then some of them took it, "Oh, Swamiji speaks very nice. Let me come again." He comes, he comes, and then he gets some faith: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice." Then next point is that he wants intimate relationship with the swami, or me: "Swamiji, I have heard you so many days. I think it is very nice. So I want to be your student." So faith is the basic principle. The next stage is that he wants to become a student. And as soon as he wants to become a student, the next stage is that I accept him a disciple if I think that he is suitable. Then as soon as he becomes a disciple, he follows my regulative principles, injunctions. Then gradually he becomes free from all misgivings and naturally he gives up that illicit sex life or gambling or meat-eating and so many other things. In that way he becomes fixed up. Then he develops a taste; he cannot give up the society, taste. Then attraction, attachment. He wants to do everything for the society. In this way he develops love of Kṛṣṇa. And in the final stage he loves only Kṛṣṇa and nobody else. And because Kṛṣṇa includes everyone, that means he loves everyone.

Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.

Prabhupāda: We have many books already published. One, first, is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is published by Macmillan and Company. You can have any number of these books from our temple. And the next book is Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is also available from our temple. And the next book, in three parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if somebody... These are the, I mean to say, covering of the books. So if somebody carefully reads these books, Kṛṣṇa consciousness science will be understood very easily by him. Besides these books, we have got our monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. So if the students... It is not very costly. The monthly magazine is only 35 cents per copy and the subscription four dollars yearly. And this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, it is only $2.95. Of course, this Teachings of Lord Caitanya, it is hardbound, it is $5.95. So they will be greatly profited.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Interviewer: What do you offer to Kṛṣṇa? That is, do you offer money in the sense of an offering in a Christian church or do you burn anything, for example, incense or could you explain this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The flowers, incense, and fruits, the same thing. I have already explained that whatever He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone offering Me these things in devotion..." So we follow the same principle. So it is very nice thing. If the students follow, they can follow it individually. Even in his own apartment he can keep a picture of Kṛṣṇa and offer a lamp, a candle, and one, I mean to say, incense. He will feel tremendously spiritually advanced. And if he reads these books, his life will be changed completely. That is a fact. (break) And two boys, Kṛṣṇānanda and one German boy, is going there very soon. So, of course, we do not expect to sell English books in Germany very much, but maybe... (end)

Prabhupāda: (break) Because in the winter season they don't get tenants?

Janārdana: Well, a few will get easily tenants, but he wants to get a tenant for the whole winter. And September is a month when there is the best chance for getting a tenant because that's when all the student population comes back into town and this is a student district. And so in the month of September he would like to either get a tenant for the whole year or leave the place open. But maybe I can persuade him because it is not very easy to find a suitable apartment for only one month in Montreal.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...pare dhana parke diye nija labha cora: "I borrowed something from you, and I lend him. He does not pay me, and I become thief."

Janārdana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) So... "I borrow from you and I lend him. He does not pay me and I become thief." Pare dhana parke diya nija labha cora. So that means this is warning: "One should not do like that. One should not take responsibility for a person where there is no connection." (break) Everywhere the principle of self-interest is there. (break) That is there. But real self-interest is Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa we can do anything. Because He is supreme Self. Bījo 'ham sarva-bhūtānāṁ (Bg 7.10). He is the Self of selves. (break) Where is Haṁsadūta? What he's doing there?

Devotee (1): I think he's cooking.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you do it? He is a very nice cooker.

Janārdana: If he stays here to cook, that's a very good idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll stay. And I have told him already. And I have asked all the students in America chased by this draft board may come here.

Yamunā: You're going to have to get a bigger building.

Devotee (2): There won't be anybody left in America.

Prabhupāda: No. In our connection, our students, let him come here. So these two boys, Jayapatāka and Vaikuṇṭha, in the same process receive. And therefore I was thinking that let us start press and restaurant and engage all these boys. So you can... (break) ...center. Why don't you try for that building?

Janārdana: The building, the Strathcona, the government building.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice, but other building in front of our temple, just not in exactly front. That big signboard.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But they're still believing. First of all, they say that 1965 they're going to the moon planet. That has not happened. Now you say 1975. So they are still believing. So a class of men will always be cheated like that. A class of men. So there will be no danger of cheating such persons.

Hayagrīva: I don't think Swami Bhaktivedanta's students would be swayed one way or the other because their faith is in Kṛṣṇa and in the spiritual master and it wouldn't be swayed by man going to the moon or not going to the moon. These are very incidental.

Reporter: No, but ...only if say a spiritual master of a faith made very definite statements about what man could or could not achieve, if a spiritual master were to say man cannot achieve this-period. And then man went ahead and achieved it, there would be a crisis.

Prabhupāda: The spiritual master does not say such nonsense things. Man can achieve in a suitable body. Why don't you say that? But that suitable body is not...

Reporter: Yeah, well that's... When I talk to you, I find that the way you say it, if after the events are achieved, there could be explanations for it and there would be no crisis in faith.

Hayagrīva: He never came out and said that it's absolutely impossible.

Reporter: Right. Okay. Well thank you very much. I appreciate your tolerance of all my questions and everything.

Prabhupāda: You take this orange.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are descriptions. There are descriptions of these things. There is description of another nature which is called spiritual nature. This is material nature. The sky, as far as you can see, this is one universe. Similarly, there are millions of universes. And all these together, that is material sky. And beyond that, there is spiritual sky, which is far, far greater than this. And there are spiritual planets. So this information we have got from Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of other Vedic literatures. Bhagavad-gītā, it is daily read by practically all over the world, but they do not understand it. Simply they become student of Bhagavad-gītā, or simply just to think falsely that "I am God." That's all. But they don't take any particular information. There is a verse in the Eighth Chapter, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature beyond this material nature which is eternal. This nature is coming into existence, again dissolution. But that nature is eternal. These things are there. Similarly, there, planets are also eternal. There, living entities, they are also eternal. That is called sanātana. Sanātana means eternal, without any end, without any beginning. But this nature, as we have, this body has got a beginning and it has end, similarly anything, this cosmic nature has a beginning and it has an end. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to transfer our self to that nature, eternal nature.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We ask people... We don't say that "You give up your, this religion. You come to us." But at least you follow your own principles. And... Just like a student. Sometimes in India it happens that although they have passed M.A. examination in Indian university, they come to foreign university to study more. So why does he come? To get more enlightenment. Similarly any religious scripture you may follow, but if you get more enlightenment here in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why should you not accept it if you are serious about God? Why should you say, "Oh, I am Christian. I am Jew. I cannot attend your meeting." Why should you say, "Oh, I cannot allow you to speak in my church." If I am speaking about God, what objection you have got?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: "Oh, these boys playing with Kṛṣṇa, they have attained this position, oh, after, I mean to say, accumulating many, many births pious activities." Kṛta-puṇya puñjāḥ. Just like a man collects dollar, dollar, dollar, dollar, dollar, and one time he amasses money, say, millions of dollars. Similarly, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing that these boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they have amassed their pious activities for millions and billions of births. Because with whom they are playing? They're playing, itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya... Satāṁ. The stalwart philosophers who are after brahma-sukha, brāhmaṇanda. So that brahmaṇanda is here, Kṛṣṇa. And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para daivatena. And for the devotees, He is the Supreme Lord. And māyāsritanam nara-dārakeṇa. Those who are covered in māyā, for them He is ordinary human boy. And with Him these boys are playing. They have amassed pious activities of many, many millions of births. Otherwise it was not possible. So they do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They do not know. But their affection for Kṛṣṇa is so great and nice that it is inexplicable. They were playing, Kṛṣṇa is defeated. Oh, Kṛṣṇa has to take the friend on His shoulder. Yes, because He was defeated. So Kṛṣṇa is accepting, "Yes, come on My shoulder." So this Kṛṣṇa-līlā, that also one who tries to understand and understands, they are also like those boys who have amassed pious activities of many, many births. It is not ordinary thing. Yes. And māyāśritānāṁ nara dārakeṇa. Those who are under the clutches of māyā, they will think these Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, "What is this? What is this? Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are enjoying about Kṛṣṇa's going to the field with some cows?" Yes. Just like one of our students, that Raṇacora. He asked me, "Swamiji, how is that God has become a cowherd boy?" Yes. Because ordinary people, they are thinking God must be so great, so great, great, that they cannot conceive. And that great personality, how He becomes a cowherd boy playing with cowherd boys? Yes. Brahmā also became astonished, and therefore he came to check "Whether He is my Lord or not?" (laughter) Yes. Bewildered. Muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ.

Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:

Brahmānanda: No. Miami is a big tourist city.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Janārdana: It's all tourist, the whole place.

Gargamuni: There's an Indian fellow in the San Francisco temple. He comes very often. He's a student, and his name is Vinode.

Prabhupāda: Vinode.

Gargamuni: Yes. And he helps us cook prasādam. And he cooks in the kitchen and oh, he says, "Kṛṣṇa is my only life." He says he was so happy to find a temple here.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Gargamuni: He mentioned to me that he's married and that he has a child in India. And he asked, "Oh, were you married?" And I said, "No. My wife was taken away." And he came over and he hugged me. "Oh," he said, "you are so lucky." (laughter) He hugged me. He said, "Oh, you are so lucky."

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) There is a Tulasī das poetry, din ka ḍākinī rat ka bhāginī gargara bhāginī cuṣe. Bhāginī. Tulasī das had very good, beautiful wife, and he was very much attached to her. So the system is that after the girl is staying with her husband... Because young girls, very minor age, they were married, say, ten years, nine years, twelve years. But they're allowed to live with husband, say, after thirteen years or fourteen years, when she has attained puberty. So the system is six months father house and six months husband. In this way, going and coming. But when she is elderly she can remain continually with her ...but in the beginning... Because after all, she is girl, so she cannot tolerate the separation from father and mother. So six months here, six months... So Tulasī das, as soon as the, his father-in-law will come to take his daughter, he won't allow. He won't allow.

Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: It is accepted that everyone goes. But if somehow you are stubborn to remain here, how one can help? (laughter) Just like the university is open for everyone. But somebody is stubborn to go to the prison department. So how the government can help? Government does not say that "Some selected people come to the university, and others go to the prison department." It is open for everyone, but it is the particular mentality—one is going to the university; one is going to the prison house. That is your individual independence. That is your choice. Just like so many students, they have come here. Others have not come here. So everyone has got little independence. So everyone can go to the spiritual world if he likes. But if he does not like, he will remain here. That is his choice.

Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am prepared to tell you, and this center is open for telling you. Our books are there. It is not a paltry subject that you can understand immediately, but I can give you one instance. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter—those who have got Bhagavad-gītā, they will see to it—that "Within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment." That is a fact. We say, "The child is growing." Growing or changing-practically the same thing. Actually, it is changing because the former body is no longer to be found. It has accepted, the soul has accepted, another body. This is going on from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then old age. So, just like I am old man. I can remember my childhood body, my babyhood body, my boyhood body, my youth-hood body. So the body is no longer, but I am there. I am thinking that "I did do like this. I was playing like this with my body." But that body is gone, but still I am there. Therefore it is naturally surmised that when this body will not be existent, I will be existent. I will accept another body. This is very logical conclusion. As I am changing so many bodies, still I am there. I can understand that I changed my body. I was so little. Now I have grown up. I am old. But I am there. Similarly, it is concluded, when this body will not be there, but I will accept another body. This is very easy to understand, that that "I" is... Now, we can perceive that when you are spiritually emancipated, you will see yourself, God also, and everything spiritual. That requires time. That requires practice. And we are teaching our students that practice, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to change the consciousness. When you change your consciousness, you will see yourself, you will see God, everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. When you are in that spiritual platform, everything will be known to you. But before that, if you want to know, that is not possible.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: So you lectured there? That's nice. Now you have to lecture. I will have to retire. (chuckles) I want that all my students now should be prepared. Puruṣottama, you sit down. You are standing. You come here. Sit down. When, at present, when we speak of past, present, future, we refer to this particular creation of my body. Is it not? Similarly, "never return back." "Never return back" means... What is your question? I... missing point. Whose question it...? Yes.

Devotee (1): What is the question? That if we've never been with Kṛṣṇa, if we've never been in Kṛṣṇaloka, then how is it that we start remembering His pastimes and His form?

Prabhupāda: You remember Kṛṣṇa's pastimes by hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can hear Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. That you can remember.

Devotee (1): But how can we remember if we've never known them before?

Prabhupāda: How you can remember?

Devotee (1): If we haven't known it.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our..., we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that "How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?" He said that "In... I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān." So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So forgetfulness is not wonderful. It is natural. We forget. But if we keep constant touch, we may not forget. Therefore this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotees, and constant repetition of the chanting, scripture, that will keep us intact without forgetting. Satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We have to continue this service constantly. Then we shall not forget. Forgetfulness is not wonderful. That is our nature. That is our nature. And that is the difference between ourself and God. God does not forget. We forget. We are claiming, some of us, foolishly claiming, that "I am God, but I forget." God does not forget. Therefore I am not God. Is that clear? That is the difference between living jīva and Śiva, God. He does not forget. In the Bhagavad-gītā He says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: (BG 7.26) "I know everything of this present, past, future, everything." But we do not know. We have forgotten. In our daily life, in our childhood, so many things we did. We don't remember. But our parents may remember that as a child, that we did this. So forgetfulness is our nature. But if we keep constant touch with Kṛṣṇa, then He will give us remembrance. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter. Now you read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. In our examination next January... Yes. From Bhagavad-gītā for title of bhakti-śāstrī. Now we have to make our organization regularly a spiritual institution so that we may be recognized, and our students may be freed from this draft board requisition. That I am... Next step is going on.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Haṁsadūta: He wants to go to Palm Beach. Palm Beach is the richest place in the country.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be all right. And Buffalo is also doing nice. Oh, yes. The students are educated circle. They are taking interest, both the boys and girls. And three meetings I attended. Every meeting was full, two hundred boys and girls. They were dancing, chanting, asking very intelligent questions. And Rūpānuga is holding class. There will be some examination of the students. They accept papers. Yes. Some Indians are coming from long distance. One Indian gentleman, he came to see me from, what is that place? Ninety-two miles away from Buffalo.

Himāvatī: Did you see Nauvanī?

Prabhupāda: Nauvanī is there. Yes. He is there still. He is also very good. He works very nice in the temple.

Haṁsadūta: Every day.

Prabhupāda: He's a very good man. Everyone who will come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become good man, even he's a bad man. That is the influence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarvair gunaiḥ tatra samāsate suraḥ. All godly qualities will develop in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the test. Now, our students, nobody can compare with their behavior, with their character, with their innocence. Everything nicer. So don't worry. Simply go on chanting. Everything will be all right. Don't worry.

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Miss Rose: Kṛṣṇa wants a better place.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) And also it is a fact that many of our students have come from the hippies.

Haṁsadūta: Almost all of them. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So they are our best candidates. So you can advertise that "We are not hippies, but we are converting many hippies to the sane condition of life." That's a fact. They are searching after something better, but they have no leader.

Miss Rose: Yes, that's true. That's it.

Prabhupāda: They have no leader. Now, if they come to us seriously, they get the right thing. But that is also their defect. When we propose, "Come and take this Kṛṣṇa," they don't want. They want that marijuana.

Candanācārya: Prabhupāda, my mother had the idea of going to rich parents who are very anxious about their children who've become hippies and saying that this movement...

Prabhupāda: So you should write article that "We are not hippies, but we are converting hippies to the sane condition. So father, mothers, who are anxious for their children, let them send their children to us. We take care." In this way you make impression in the public mind.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Devotee: Because Prabhupāda will be speaking for an hour, maybe Hayagrīva you can lead the first chant. You have a very nice voice too. Because he'll be speaking for an hour.

Prabhupāda: If there is time he will also speak.

Hayagrīva: Well, if he can lead the first I think that would be... The students would be...

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. If he leads the first, will they be able to have responsive chanting too? Do you want responsive chanting when you lead?

Hayagrīva: Oh yes. You'll lead, then we'll respond.

Prabhupāda: If every one of our devotee will respond, naturally the audience also will respond.

Hayagrīva: We'll have a microphone to make it easier for the audience.

Prabhupāda: Then you also one of us.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Is the Caitanya-Kṛṣṇa ritual, as you have it here in this house and in the other āśramas, is that something that a large mass of people can enter into?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Allen Ginsberg: In America?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have seen. All my students are Americans. So it has to be... And it is spreading.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, but what it requires is an adaptation of Indian dress and an adaptation...

Prabhupāda: That is not very important.

Allen Ginsberg: And an adaptation to Indian food.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Indian food... It is not Indian food. Are you not eating fruits?

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then that is Indian food? Do you mean to say it is Indian food?

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the curries.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Sūradāsa, the poet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is known as Sūradāsa.

Allen Ginsberg: Teacher of Tulasī Dāsa, or student of Tulasī Dāsa.

Prabhupāda: He may be different, but Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, he was also blind. He made himself blind. You know the story of Bilvamaṅgala?

Allen Ginsberg: No.

Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?" Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall go to Cintāmaṇi." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was there. He took some nice foodstuff, and when he went, there was a big river, and it was raining heavily, and the river was flooded. So he thought, "How shall I go the other side?" So one dead body was floating. So he thought, "It is a log," and he took the help of the log and went the other side. And it was heavy raining. And then, when he reached that Cintāmaṇi's home, he saw the door is locked already. Blocked.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students. And Keśava Kāśmīrī was strolling on the Ganges side. So he heard that this boy is Nimāi Paṇḍita. "Oh, I will have to talk with Him? He is a boy." So he went there, and when He was acquainted that Keśava Kāśmīrī..., "Oh, please come down, sit." So Nimāi Paṇḍita said that "I have heard that you are so learned scholar. Now we are on the Ganges side. You can chant the glorification of mother Ganges.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Dośa. In Sanskrit word it is called dvir-ukti-dośa. Dvi means two. Rukti means utterance. And dośa means fault.

Allen Ginsberg: Fault. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Fault. Yes. So dvir-ukti-dośa. So he was conscious. Then he said, "Well, I understand that you are a student of grammar. How do you detect this, this literary discrepancies?" "No. I am student. I am your student. I do not pose. I am not scholar, but I have heard this is told like that. From other scholars I have heard." "How could You remember? I cited one hundred verses and how do You remember the sixty-fourth verses?" "Oh, I can repeat the whole verses."

Allen Ginsberg: (laughs) Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: "How is that, that you can repeat? How is that?" "Oh, that is grace of mother Sarasvatī. Just like you can compose a hundred verses within a few minutes, I can, whatever you say, I can remember immediately." Formerly that was the system of understanding Vedas, śruti, simply by hearing. Once they hear from the spiritual master, they will remember. The memory was so sharp. Therefore this brahmacārī system is so nice. They can enhance their memorizing power, brahmacārī.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: I know one mantra in Bengali to Sarasvatī. Jaya jaya devī jaya jara sari, kuchuku viśori mukta vihārī vīra nandita pulake vihati bhagavati... (?) (etc)

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. Sarasvatī-stotra, yes. Students are supposed to offer stotras, students specially.

Allen Ginsberg: So that's a mantra for students, for Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidya, the goddess of learning, Sarasvatī. In our childhood we used to worship Sarasvatī: "Please, mother, give me pass this examination." That was our prayer. So other students, they laughed very loudly. They thought that "Caitanya has come out very victorious within a second." He said, "No. Stop." Then He stopped all these talkings, and... "So you are so... I have to talk with you. You are very learned." Ordinary formalities. Then he went away. And he was also great worshiper of mother Sarasvatī. Then he began to pray to Sarasvatī, "Mother Sarasvatī, by your grace I have become victorious in so many places. And what is this, that I am defeated by a boy who is a grammar student?" So he began to pray, and mother Sarasvatī informed her (him) that "He is God, my husband. So you speak means I speak. So how can I defeat my husband? That is not..." (knock at door) Come on. Come on. (someone enters) Yes, come. Yes. You can put there. (someone offers obeisances) Put there. All right. Put there. That's all. Very good. So then he further did not attempt to talk with Him. He went away, and the mother Sarasvatī advised him that "You surrender unto Him. That will be your nice role. Yes." So later on, he became a great devotee of Lord Caitanya, Keśava Kāśmīrī.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Hayagrīva: Mr. Ginsberg was telling me downstairs that the President is going to come to Ohio State.

Allen Ginsberg: Nixon.

Hayagrīva: Nixon? President Nixon?

Allen Ginsberg: In one month for the graduation.

Hayagrīva: He told the students to chant...

Allen Ginsberg: Hare Kṛṣṇa to Nixon.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Hayagrīva: So that he would hear it when he was coming by.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: I think it will make sense, because now there are a lot of students who know the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So they might do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When he is coming?

Allen Ginsberg: One month from now. May, or is it June?

Hayagrīva: Commencement.

Allen Ginsberg: Commencement. The graduation.

Prabhupāda: In some lecture he said that "I want to meet some religious heads." And so one of my girl students in San Francisco, she is very educated. She wrote one letter to Nixon. And I have got the copy, that "Swamiji is spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is being appreciated by the younger section. So Swamiji will be glad to see you if you make some appointment." But he never replied.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, this university he chose because it's supposed to be typical of America. So if in this typical university the young people greet him by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then he may well invite you.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: I think I told you about that, didn't I?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You told me in San Francisco. Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: So he heard two rounds of it. Okay. I have to take a plane today to a Catholic college in New York State. I'll be going back to New York at one o'clock, so I have to go back and pack and say good-bye to the students. It was a pleasure to see you here, lovely. So maybe we'll do it again in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I'll call. Thank you for your words and thank you for letting me join you.

Prabhupāda: My... You are already chanting. But if we do together, it will be very nice.

Allen Ginsberg: So let's do something together in New York City this summer. I'm free all summer, so it's at your convenience this time 'cause I'll be free. I don't have any dates or appointments. So if you just let me know maybe two weeks or somebody let me know a few weeks in advance, then I can come down from the farm, spend a day with you and then we chant. I'd be happy to do that. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him that garland. (end)

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You can do, you can ask me for fifteen minutes more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We also wish to show a scene of Lord Caitanya in school, learning. Some kind of incident about how nice a pupil He was so we can show people that He was the best student in the school.

Prabhupāda: In India the system is in the school that the best student is appointed... What is called in English? The chief student is called "minor," or... "M," beginning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Monitor.

Prabhupāda: Monitor, yes. Monitor. So He was monitor. That is the same. And He'll teach the students from grammar all Kṛṣṇa. Dhātu. Dhātu. There is subject matter. Dhātu means verb. So He will ex-plain... dhātu means, when a dhātu is taken away a man is dead, and this dhātu is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is the life. Without Kṛṣṇa a man is dead." In this way He explained. Kṛṣṇa explanation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old was He?

Prabhupāda: I may say, eight or ten years old.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So His mother was feeling...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to East Bengal for teaching, and actually, the girl felt too much separation, and she died. And figuratively it is used that the separation took the form of a serpent and bitten her and she died. And when He came back His mother requested that "You should marry for the second time," and He agreed. And so next marriage was with Viṣṇupriyā. In the first marriage, Lakṣmīpriyā, He used to see her when she was bathing in the Ganges ghāṭa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu desired that "I shall marry this girl." So His father sent one matchmaker. So when the matchmaker came to His mother that "Such and such brāhmaṇa..." I forget his name, but the name is there in the Caitanya-Bhāgavata. "He desires that his daughter should be married with your son." And Śacīdevī said, "Oh, my son is not yet grown up. He's just a student. How He can be married?" So she practically denied. And the matchmaker was going back, not very satisfied. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was entering home. He saw the matchmaker and asked, "No, why did you come here?" "Yes, I came to propose Your marriage with such and such daughter, but Your mother is not willing." "Oh, mother is not willing? All right. You can go." Then when He came, entered home, He asked mother, "Mother, what did you do? That matchmaker was going very sorry. Why? What did you say?" The mother could understand that He is willing for the marriage. Then she called back the matchmaker. "Yes. I agree for the marriage." So the marriage ceremony... So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave hint that "I want to marry that girl."

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī... Sannyāsa reason was different. There was some misunderstanding between His students and... They were of same age. Because Nimāi Paṇḍita was very intelligent boy, so He was teaching other boys practically of the same age. So there was some misunderstanding and the students wanted to retaliate. He went to strike them with a stick, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And because they're of the same age they made a conference, "Oh, this Nimāi Paṇḍita has become very big man. He wants to strike us. Next time if He does so, then we shall also strike Him." Then He thought that "In this householder's position I cannot preach. I must take sannyāsa. Otherwise they will not respect Me." That is the system in India. A sannyāsī in this dress, whatever rascal he may be, he is offered immediately all respect. That is the system in India. So therefore He took sannyāsa early age, 24 years, 24 years of age.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a serious student.

Yoko Ono: Well, I mean, what do you mean by serious student? Maybe everybody, all of us are serious anyway. I mean, we're born serious or born, you know, unserious.

Prabhupāda: Then you must know what is distinction between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, if you are serious student.

Yoko Ono: But does it depend on knowledge? I mean, the final judgement that you make?

Prabhupāda: Everything depends on knowledge. Without knowledge how can we make progress? Student means to acquire knowledge. Serious student means to acquire knowledge.

Yoko Ono: But not always the knowledgeable one are the ones who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow. But as far as it is possible, because, after all, we are part and parcel of the Absolute, so all the qualities of the Absolute are there in us, but it is in minute quantity. So that minute quantity is also very great in comparison to material knowledge. Material knowledge is practically no knowledge. It is covered. But when one is liberated, liberated knowledge is certainly very, very great than material knowledge. So Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: "I am the source of everything." This sarvaṁ means Paramātmā, Brahman, everything. These are clearly stated. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. So Brahman knowledge or Paramātmā knowledge is within Kṛṣṇa knowledge. If one has got Kṛṣṇa knowledge he has got Paramātmā knowledge, Brahman knowledge. He has got the effect of yogic principle, meditation, he has got the effect of empiric philosophical speculation, and he is situated personally in the service of the Lord. So if you make comparative study, then this Kṛṣṇa knowledge includes all knowledge. The Vedas also confirm it, yasmin sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavati. If you understand the Supreme, then all knowledge becomes automatically revealed. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, "Knowing this, you'll have nothing to know anymore." In the ninth chapter there is. So first of all we have to seriously study. Therefore I'm asking that to become serious student, what is the difference between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān? Paramātmā is localized aspect of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And Brahman is the effulgence of the Absolute. And Parambrahma, or Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is Kṛṣṇa. So if you have full Kṛṣṇa knowledge, then you have got Brahman knowledge and Paramātmā knowledge. But if you have got simply Brahman knowledge or Paramātmā knowledge, you have no Kṛṣṇa knowledge. The same example can be... If you are in the sunshine, then you do not know what is sun globe and the predominating deity in the sun. But if you are by the side of the sun deity, you know what is sun globe and what is sunshine.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Then you see what Kṛṣṇa says. That is authority. Why should you hear anyone else? Now, what Kṛṣṇa has said, to understand that, that you have to search out if you are serious student.

John Lennon: How do we know if somebody else, Yogananda, Maharsi, and all these different people that have translated it, how are we to tell that their version isn't Kṛṣṇa's word from your version?

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say if you are serious student, then you study Sanskrit, original.

John Lennon: Study Sanskrit? Oh, now you're talking.

George Harrison: But Vivekananda said that books and rituals and dogmas and temples are secondary details, anyway. He said they're not the most important thing, anyway. You don't have to read the book in order to have the perception.

Prabhupāda: Then why Vivekananda wrote so many books? (laughter)

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Satsvarūpa: But still... I've already done that. I've made him, but practically I'm still managing anyway. And I made Murāri manager, but still I'm... I don't spend much time in editing. People are always coming, and I'm running all over the place. I don't edit at all. It makes me sad. I don't...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They must give relief to you. You can give them instruction, but the actual execution should be done... Pradyumna is there. He can also do. But anyone who is expert in management, he should be... Temple management should not be done directly by you. You can give him policy that "You do like this." That's all. Because you have got so many other things to do. Yes. So you create. If there is no expert manager, you create some manager. That is most important thing, to create. To become... (laughs) In our college there was one Mr. Kidd, professor of economics. He was always chastising us. We were student; he was our professor. "Oh, you cannot have independence. You cannot manage it. You cannot manage. You can work just like ass, but if some asses are given under you, you cannot work." He was talking like that. "So don't cry for independence. You are not yet nation." He was talking like that. So actually his experience was nice, that since the Britishers have gone away, the management of Indian government is not nice. They cannot manage. So he was experienced. He told. I sometimes remember that Professor Kidd told me like that. (laughs) So we have to create nice administrator. That is another function, you see? Every department, we shall create assistant, assistant. So that in case he is ill or he is sick, he cannot work, somebody must work for him.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Whenever you add this word āśrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa—they are known as āśrama. Anyone can understand āśrama. As soon as there is āśrama that means "Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives." That is āśrama. So that āśrama, when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in brahmacārī āśrama. A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles—gṛhastha āśrama. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles—the vānaprastha āśrama. Similarly, a renounced life, sannyāsa, if he is following the regulative principles, that is sannyāsa āśrama.

Prabhupāda: (break) Still you want to inquire from her?

Guest (4): From the entire business.

Prabhupāda: So you can inquire from me. In my presence, you can inquire from me. Because, after all, they are my students, they may not be able to reply thoroughly. So if you have got any inquiries you can ask from me.

Guest (4): Yes. Yes. Mahārāja, I am a teacher of Sanskrit and English in one of the higher secondary schools here and I am very much interested...

Prabhupāda: So you join us. Simply lip sympathy will not do. Just like these boys and girls, they have joined wholeheartedly. So I do not find any Indians.

Guest (4): I am ready to join but for my family liabilities. Is there is some...?

Prabhupāda: So you can join. You are family man, so it is not that we have no family men. We have got many family men. Now, they are all family. These girls, they have got a husband. And some of them, they are living separately. Just like one of my students, Professor Howard Wheeler. He is married man. He is living separately. Not separately. He is also conducting our, one establishment, New Vrindaban. So it is not that one has to live with us. He can live separately also, but his whole life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.

Guest (4): I am very much serious.

Prabhupāda: Then you are welcome. I am asking young men like you to come and join me.

Guest (5): (unintelligible)

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Yes. I am speaking in English because my students, they cannot understand Hindi. But if educated young boys like you come they will be also able to understand English, so there will be no difficulty.

Guest (4): Thank you, Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Replay little. (break) Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. (Hindi) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible.

Guest (4): I have my sisters and mother and father to support.

Prabhupāda: So let them come, all, and live with me. (Hindi) That's nice. (Hindi). That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So that is our movement. Wherever we go, we find out sincere persons, immediately attract. Yes. But if he's not sincere, we cannot attract. If he's sincere, immediately attract. That is the value of this movement. All my students, they were attracted only because they were sincere. Anyone sincere in seeking after the Absolute Truth will be attracted.

Guest (6): I am not getting ...(unclear)

Prabhupāda: Ekāgra. Ekāgra. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, therefore it is said. "One has to perform this bhakti-yoga under My representative." Mad-āśrayaḥ.

Guest (6): I am very grateful to you.

Prabhupāda: And there is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura-Prārthanā. Āśraya laiyā bhaje, kṛṣṇa nāhi tare tyāge: "One who takes āśraya, shelter of a devotee, Kṛṣṇa does not give him up. Kṛṣṇa accepts him." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ... **. Because if that person who is giving shelter, if he's pleased, Kṛṣṇa is immediately... If he recommends a fool, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, here is a devotee," Kṛṣṇa will accept immediately. It doesn't matter whether he's a fool or rascal. Because he is recommended by representative, he will be accepted. Yasya pra... This is the meaning of yasya prasādad bhagavat-pra... Without his recommendation there is no entry in Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Yasya-prasādad na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If he displeases Kṛṣṇa's representative he has no entrance to the Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, however learned he may be or whatever he may be. Immediately rejected. In a business office, suppose a secretary is there. A clerk does not accept the order of the secretary. Immediately he should be dismissed. In my personal experience, when I was young manager in a big chemical concern, one correspondent clerk, he disobeyed me. I reported to the head boss. He immediately came and he said, "Get out immediately from the office." And he wanted to plead in so many ways. Said, "No, I don't want. If you don't go out, then I shall call my doorman. He will forcibly get you out. Get out." I was sorry because this man is dismissed immediately, but he took. Disobedient... "Obedience is first discipline." So if Kṛṣṇa's representative is disobeyed—"Get out immediately." Kṛṣṇa is very strict.

Haṁsadūta: And here, Kṛṣṇa Book, is the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Prabhupāda calls it, "Kṛṣṇa: The Supreme Personality of Godhead." And it's full of illustrations which are done by his American students. Just see how beautiful. There are eighty-four full color illustrations that show the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. So the people in the western world and for the first time in the history of the world will get an idea of who God is, what He looks like, what He does, where He's residing. This is the Kṛṣṇa Book, in two volumes. This is volume number one and this is volume number two. This is just a blueprint. We haven't got a printed copy yet. Then Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, which you must be familiar with, in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya and there are also illustrations although they're not color. They're black and white.

Guest (1): Śrī Tukārāma is disciple of Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: He also went through in Maharastra by His chanting, (indistinct)

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is not advancement, although they are very much proud of advancement. This is not sign of advancement. According to Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate: (Bg. 6.20-23) "If one is situated in such a position that even in the greatest, gravest type of dangerous position, he is not agitated, he is not agitated, that is the real happiness." Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate. These are the words, yasmin sthite: "Situated in such a position that although he is facing greatest danger, he is not agitated." There is one instance. Not very long ago, say, about two hundred years ago there was a big zamindar. He was known as king in Krishnanagar. So he was charitably disposed. He went to a brāhmaṇa and asked him—he was a great learned scholar—"Can I help you any way?" And the pandit replied, "No. I don't require your help. I am quite satisfied." "How you are satisfied?" "Oh, my, these students, they bring some rice. So my wife boils that, and I have got this tamarind tree. I take some leaves and prepare some juice out of it. That is sufficient." So he was satisfied. That's all. But he was a learned scholar. Similarly, Canakya Pandit... You have perhaps heard. He was the greatest politician. He was prime minister of India. He was living in a cottage and just giving instruction. So that is India's Vedic civilization. Everyone is satisfied, self-sufficient. And now in your country, oh, you have to attend office fifty miles off. And because you have to take this trouble, Kṛṣṇa has provided with car.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: There are many instances. But this very word, "by birth one is śūdra," so there is no discrimination that "You are not śūdra. I am not...," by birth, abodha-jāto, because he is born foolish rascal. Now, by saṁskāra, by culture, by education, he becomes dvija, second birth. The practical example is these European and American students. They were doing all nonsense but since they have come to guru their life is reformed; therefore they are dvija. Saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, veda-paṭhet... Now, when he becomes dvija, then he is allowed to study Vedas, not as a śūdra. When we say śūdra has no right to study Vedas, that means he will not be able to understand. Just like you became lawyer, but the condition is, unless you become graduate, unless you have graduated yourself, you cannot enter law college. That does not mean law is prohibited for anyone. It is open for everyone, but first of all you make yourself university graduate; then enter law. Similarly, everyone is śūdra.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Ah, near Paris?

Prabhupāda: Yes

Prof. Kotovsky: In Fontaine Bleau?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They have taken a whole house, nice house. So our process is very simple. We ask our students to refrain from four prohibitive principles: no illi...

Prof. Kotovsky: From? I'm sorry. From? Four?

Prabhupāda: Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, meat or fish or eggs, no, and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find, how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple. Besides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them. Throughout all these years I have written so many books. And they have got ample stock for reading, the whole life. We have got four hundred pages', big, big books, about one dozen books: Kṛṣṇa in two parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in six parts, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, one part, Nectar of Devotion, one part. In this way I am... And these are... We are publishing every month one chapter, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, with this detailed information, giving a heading like this, "The First Step in God Realization." Here is also. The heading is: "Puruṣa-śukta Continued." Puruṣa-śukta is a Vedic stotram. So we are trying to push this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like in your country there is Lenin consciousness, similarly, it is also a different type of consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also historical personality as much as Lenin is also historical personality. So His philosophy... Just like you are trying to understand his philosophy, we are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. In this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...in these fifty-five branches?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, more than three thousand, three thousand initiated. And outside admirers, there are many, many. And this means these three thousand who have accepted the principles, just like these boys. So there are fifty-five branches. In each branch we are maintaining twenty-five to hundred students. So just imagine.

Prof. Kotovsky: But does that mean the students, they abstain for normal West European universities their own, all their... How to explain it? Their... For instance, can a normal student from, for instance, from one of the best universities, who is attending lectures in normal way, etc., also be initiated and admitted to your community?

Prabhupāda: No, both ways. Both ways. If you want to be initiated, you are welcome. If not, you come. Try to understand our philosophy. Read our books. There are so many books, magazines. And question, answer. Try to understand the philosophy. It is not that all of a sudden a student comes and becomes our disciple, no. They first of all come, associate, try to understand. Then... We do not canvass. When he voluntarily says that "I want to be your..."

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: No, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no canvassing.

Prof. Kotovsky: No, yes. That's what I thought. But what I am most interested in... For instance, not a student but a young worker or a young son of a farmer, he would abstain from his old life and he would be initiated and join your community into a given center. How he would entertain himself?

Prabhupāda: The thing is... I have alre...

Prof. Kotovsky: In the sorts of day to day life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: Material life...

Prabhupāda: Now, material life, it is...

Prof. Kotovsky: Would he be paid to stay in that center?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am answering. As I told you that this propaganda is meant for creating some brāhmaṇas all over the world because the brāhmaṇa element is lacking, so one who seriously comes to us, he has to become a brāhmaṇa. So he has to adopt the occupation of a brāhmaṇa, and he has to give up the occupation of a kṣatriya or a śūdra. But if one wants to keep his profession, at the same time wants to understand also, that is allowed. Just like we have many professors. There is Howard Wheeler, professor of Ohio University. He's my disciple. So he is continuing his professorship. But whatever money he's getting, almost he's spending for our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For gṛhasthas, those who are householders living outside, they are expected to contribute fifty per cent of the income for the society, twenty-five per cent for the family, and twenty-five per cent for his personal emergency. After all, in this world, if we live... So far we are concerned, we are sannyāsī, but you are a professor. If there is some emergency, you cannot go to beg. But I am a sannyāsī. I can tell you that I am in difficulty. That is the system. So we have got four orders. Just like he's brahmacārī, and he's gṛhastha. He has got his wife, children. So he's a gṛhastha. He's a brahmacārī. Similarly, there is sannyāsī. So that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. It doesn't matter whether one is a gṛhastha, householder, or renounced order or a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If anyone understands the science of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes the spiritual master.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So in your country also that position may come. Now in America you are happy. Because the nature is changing, jagat. Jagat means which is changing. So before any further changes come, you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over your country. You should utilize these fruits and flowers for Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Don't slip down. That is my request. Whatever I could do, I have done. Now it is up to you to spread this movement all over the world. Don't go away. There is some tendency, somebody. Therefore, I ask you, no. This is all nonsense. This is māyā's peeping, "Why you are working so hard for a sentiment, chanting and dancing? Come on, take to service and be happy with your wife and children." This is māyā. This is māyā. I did not ask my students to marry to become a lost child. I wanted to give them some facility, because you cannot do without wife. But now I am seeing that some of them are slipping away. This is not to be done, no. Every one of us as good as sannyāsī because we have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. Sannyāsī does not mean simply having no wife and children, he's a sannyāsī. No. Nothing to possess except Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsī. One should know that "I will have simply Kṛṣṇa, nothing more." Then he is sannyāsī. This mentality, that "I have nothing to serve, I have nobody to serve except Kṛṣṇa." But if you serve Kṛṣṇa, you will serve everyone. Just like I was teaching this Indian gentleman. The same process. If you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the leaves, and the flowers are all served. If you put the foodstuff here, not here, not here, then automatically this is served. Although the foodstuff is here, automatically this is served, this is served, this is served, this is... Everybody is served. This is practical. If you serve Kṛṣṇa, then all service will be included. They are serving humanitarian and so on. Suppose I, I am Indian, I came to your country. Why I came to your country in this old age? That is service. To be Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's the best service. Without any distinction of caste, creed, country, color. No. Everyone should have Kṛṣṇa. This is the best service. Go everywhere, every part of the world, and give Kṛṣṇa. That is the best service you can do. And actually, they are now feeling, because they are Indians.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine movement, it will make progress, provided it is presented in pure form. It was not presented before me in pure form, at least in the Western countries. Therefore people could not take it, nor they could understand it. Now it is being placed in pure form in the right way of paramparā system as the ācāryas introduced, and actually it is happening. It is..., they are taking. Wherever they are going, people are very much anxious to take this philosophy, as if they are waking. Anywhere we go, even we have sent men to Jerusalem (?). (aside:) What town? (indistinct) So this method is very effective, and people are accepting, any part of the world, without any discrimination. Here mostly you see our students are from the Christian group, the Jewish group, there are many students from Muhammadan group, from Parsi group.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then, from Kṛṣṇa, Nārada. From Nārada, Vyāsadeva. From Vyāsadeva to Madhvācārya, from Madhvācārya to Īsvara Puri, Mādhavendra Puri, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then His disciples, the six Goswāmīs, then Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja, then Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa. So we are taking account very rigidly from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and I am the tenth generation from Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Mohsin Hassan: Yeah, the tenth. After you, is it any decision has been made who will take over?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters.

Mohsin Hassan: How many swamis do you initiated, American? I'm speaking just on...

Prabhupāda: About ten.

Mohsin Hassan: You have ten swamis. And outside of swamis, what's the lower...

Prabhupāda: Now, they're competent. They can, not only the swamis, even the gṛhasthas, they are called dāsa adhikārī, and brahmacārīs, everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread. They can recruit more members in this. They do, but they are being trained up. Just like here in this meeting, one of my disciples, he is acting as priest. It is not myself; he is acting. So some of my students, they are acting as priests, some of them are swamis, so they are competent to make disciples.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Mohsin Hassan: Could you recall the beginning of your first trip to USA and how you spread the message? I was told that you came here with six dollars, and then...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our government, India government would not allow to take money to go outside. So somehow or other I got the P-form sanction, and one big shipping company, they allowed me free passage. So I came here with great difficulty. Of course I was very comfortably situated on the sea, but still, because I am not accustomed, I got sea sickness. So the travel was very miserable. Still I came. Then for one year, I was going here and there, there was no fixed-up position, and then in 1...9, I came here in 1965, September, then 1966, July, I incorporated the society and started my preaching in a storefront, and... Second Avenue. And then gradually the students came and it developed, one branch after. Now we have got sixty branches, and our expenditure is very heavy. According to Indian calculation it is about 700,000's of rupees. We are paying every rent, we have got in each center not less than twenty-five devotees, up to hundred, hundred and fifty. So it is going on by Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: That is Sanskrit, na tasya śocananarthi.

Śyāmasundara: Actually, for a place in the center of London like this, it's nice to have offices and a small chapel and maybe a bookstore, but we would not be able to recruit many people to come on a residential basis, being in the center of the city. But in a place a little bit further out, like in a student neighborhood, everybody comes.

Prabhupāda: What? Student neighborhood?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, they'll come.

Prabhupāda: So, why not negotiate that?

Śyāmasundara: Daily they'll come and then gradually become devotees.

Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)

Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

govinda viraheṇa me

Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything. That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point. That is test. So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter. We want to see whether you are lover of God. That is our propaganda. And if one is serious about loving God, it doesn't matter in which way he'll develop that dormant love. It doesn't matter. Just like one, a person wants to be a very nice student of mathematics. It doesn't matter from which university he takes the degree. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can go. Just like students are coming from one country to another, one country to another. Because his aim is education. So if one is serious about loving God, then it doesn't matter in which way he learns that art. It doesn't matter. He won't discriminate, "Oh, I must learn this art from this university." No. Any university. It doesn't matter. So our principle is that we are teaching love of God. So actually, those who are after God, they are coming. It doesn't matter whether he is in America, in Russia, in Africa, or Canada. It doesn't matter. They are coming. And method is simple. Chant the holy name of God. If you have got any name, you chant. We preach this. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got any name, God's name, then chant that.

Sister Mary: It's very difficult to think of God.

Prabhupāda: No. It is not difficult. It is difficult for the sinners. Those who are not sinners, it is not difficult. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said:

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ

janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām

te dvanda-moha-nirmuktā

bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ

(BG 7.28)

One can chant the holy name of the Lord if one is free from all sinful activities. A person who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. Therefore we ask our students, first discipline is that he must not have illicit sex life, he must not eat meat, he must not take any kind of intoxication, he must not indulge in gambling. Because these are sinful activities. So if one is engaged in these sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. It is impossible. One who is sinner, he cannot concentrate his mind on God. So voluntarily we should give up these sinful activities. Then it will be possible.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, purification will go on. Suppose you are... Just like we are holding, what I... I began this propaganda in the Western countries. I was sitting in a park, Thompkinson's? What is that?

Revatīnandana: Thompkins Square.

Prabhupāda: Thompkins Square in New York. I was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they used to gather. And gradually, they became my disciples, students. So I began in this way, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare... For three hours, from two to five. That's all. And they are still doing that. They are going on the street. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, the same thing, is going on. They are being arrested sometimes. They are being harassed. But still, they don't give up. They chant. This boy in Germany, I sent in Germany. He sat down on the footpath and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This boy. Practically, he started my European movement, he started first.

Guest (2) Gentlemen: Have you been harassed in London at all?

Prabhupāda: I don't think, but they are Londoners. They know better than me.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: We don't keep any statistics, but actually the fact is that I started alone; now we are eight thousand.

Guest (2): I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that...

Haṁsadūta: Five years ago, Prabhupāda, he came to New York with these kartāls, and he began alone by sitting in a park underneath a tree chanting this very same Hare Kṛṣṇa, which you see the boys on Oxford St. chanting. And now there are eight thousand students all over the world, and approximately a hundred centers. At that time, Śrīla Prabhupāda didn't even have a place for himself. But now he has a place in every major city.

Guest (2): You used the word "student" here. You're referring to this as...

Haṁsadūta: Yes, because it's an education. This is a spiritual education.

Guest (2): This doesn't tie up with the figure that I've been given, though, 150. There must be more than that.

Haṁsadūta: No, we're talking about around the world.

Guest (2): But you would accept there's 150?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, in England.

Guest (2): No, five years ago.

Prabhupāda: In 1966.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am seeing every moment. And if you want to see, I can show you.

Journalist (2): Please do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But it is not so easy. It is not so cheap that you want to see immediately, I can show you. You have to become student like him. Then you can see.

Journalist (2): I would have to become a member of the Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Not only member, a student like him. There are many members they pay some money. But they are learning according to my direction.

Journalist (2): Can you tell me what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: First of all you have understood this thing or not? If you want to see God, you have to become a student like him. Are you prepared to that?

Journalist (2): I haven't got the opportunity to become a student.

Prabhupāda: Then don't talk of seeing God. Don't talk of seeing God. God seeing is not so cheap. You talk about seeing God. If you want to see God, then you have (to) become a student how to see God.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn.

Journalist (2): Can you say what is God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Therefore you have to become student.

Journalist (2): Tell me what is God.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you become a student, otherwise you'll not be understand... That I say God is the supreme enjoyer, God is the supreme proprietor. That I already told. Can you understand this? Can you refute this, that God is not the supreme proprietor?

Journalist (2): What sort of people do you want?

Prabhupāda: No, why you are going away? You are talking one thing and then going another thing.

Journalist (2): I have to do, I'm afraid.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then I cannot waste my time. You question one thing. Make a solution.

Journalist (2): What sort of people do you want to become students?

Prabhupāda: Tell him, Bhagavān.

Bhagavān: We want everyone to become our students. No one has a good understanding of what is God.

Journalist (2): I can't get this on the microphone.

Prabhupāda: You can take instruction from the students who are actually trying to understand God.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: How long you want? (laughter) I have had this under-standing from my birth. My father was God conscious, he taught me how to become God conscious.

Journalist (2): And you are in fact the spiritual leader of these students. What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Because I want to teach them what is God. If anyone is interested with God, I can teach him.

Journalist (2): How long does it take?

Prabhupāda: It takes one second.

Journalist (2): Well, can we do it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You accept, surrender to God, then you become God conscious.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: He could not finish any one?

Haṁsadūta: No, not even the magazine was finished. The magazine before this recent one, I put it together myself from old magazines.

Prabhupāda: There are so many German students. They cannot do?

Haṁsadūta: They can do, but the thing is that you have said that he is the chief and unless it goes through him, it can't be printed.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. No, no. No, no.

Haṁsadūta: Everything is bottle-necked around him.

Prabhupāda: Now, the important subject, he may do slowly, but...

Haṁsadūta: Like Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Others may be done by others. You print it. Even there is some mistake, that doesn't matter.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: They like. And you have got so many ingredients. So now you realize how many things you have to speak to the world, economic development, everything. We are not simply so-called religious people. We know everything in right way. Everything, what is to be... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all round, all included.

Revatīnandana: The people who listen, they become very impressed. At many programs, the students, after I finish speaking and I answer some questions, they realize that we know something very completely. They become very interested. They come around and bring more questions. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you will get all ideas from our books. That is Indian śaṅkha? That in your hand, bangle, white bangle.

Woman: Ah, elephant?

Prabhupāda: It is called śaṅkha. From conchshell, it is made from conchshell. Where you have purchased it?

Woman: I'm afraid this is ivory.

Prabhupāda: Ivory? Oh. There is similar made from conchshell.

Woman: Yes, I had those in Allahabad. I was going there to...

Prabhupāda: Allahabad? Conch, from conchshell? It is especially used in Bengal. A woman... that is an auspicious sign that she is with her husband, to have conchshell bangle. Śaṅkha-sari. A woman dressed śaṅkha and sari, śaṅkha-sari. They don't require any other ornament. One nice sari and śaṅkha. That is Indian conception of woman having husband. That is distinction between widow and a woman having husband. Widow will not accept sari. All finished. Vedic culture, widow should finish her life after having the husband. Saha-gamana. Satī. Yes. (break) ...have got enough to preach. People will like it.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: It shows a misconception of the word science.

Prabhupāda: So far I remember, I was also a student of philosophy, Dr. Urquhart, he said the philosophy is science of sciences. The science, there, I mean theory, begins from philosophy. Philosophy is the science of sciences. But according to Vedic verses, a philosopher is not a philosopher if he has not a different opinion from another philosopher, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Therefore, through the philosopher you cannot come to the right conclusion. Tarkeṇa aprāptaś ca. If you simply go on arguing that will also not help you. If you simply read scriptures that will also not help you. Because there are different scriptures. Bible is different from Vedas and Vedas is different from Koran. So tarka... by argument you cannot come to the conclusion, by simply reading scriptures you cannot come to the conclusion. By following the philosophers you cannot come to the conclusion. Therefore the truth is very confidential. Dharmasyārtha... guhyam. It is kept very confidential. Then how to have it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You have to follow the great personalities who have actually realized God. That is the conclusion.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if it is accepted by the great ācāryas that He's God then there is no doubt. If Kṛṣṇa is accepted God, by all the ācāryas, bona fide ācāryas, authorities.

Śyāmasundara: Well, I think what Prabhupāda is saying is that a spiritual master is requisite in order to transmit knowledge even though it may be revealed in the scriptures to the student, according to the time and place. Just like someone may be able to read in a book about how to perform a brain operation, but unless there's a master there to transmit that knowledge into reality, it's useless. It can't be performed.

Dr. Weir: That merely means, you might say, if you're going to be very thorough and precise, that the, it could be explained in greater detail, but it's easier to do it with a master. But you can go to a foreign language by reading a book, although it's much easier if you're...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here is the medicine, diabetic. So I have accepted this medicine through a bona fide doctor. Although it is meant for diabetes, I have not accepted this medicine, neither it is advised that this medicine should be accepted by a bona fide physician. So I cannot see properly whether it is good for me. But when the physician, qualified physician, says, "Yes, it is bona fide. You can use it in this way." That is right.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: I assure you, Swami, that the reverse was true. I went to Oxford. I sat at the feet, as we would put it, of one of the most tiresome men I ever met in my life. He gave me an extraordinary distaste for law. Any law I've learnt has had to be learned the hard way by, you know, looking up statutes, looking up cases. So I regret to say, that I have my own personal experiences...

Prabhupāda: That is, that is... Of course later on, in the beginning you are a student of a lawyer.

Mensa Member: That's use of analogy because some people have gone on (indistinct) no matter who they are.

Dr. Weir: Ya, Ya. Well this is the only thing, "Seek and ye shall find, or be still and ye shall know." I think this is the essential feature that you've been saying is that, really, grace comes to anybody if they're only willing to expect it. It's inherently there.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: But by verbalizing this philosophy of the Absolute, it trains the student in accepting the inexperience, that which is only experienced, by leading them to that point. But certainly we have to have some verbal confirmation of this truth.

Dr. Weir: Some people, oddly enough, don't need it. Some very simple people can have a very truly spiritual life without ever needing to verbalize it usually because they had, this is where I think it's perfectly correct, they have followed some father figure or mother figure and you know, absorbed...

Śyāmasundara: Just like my child.

Dr. Weir: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: She's to that point without having any rational knowledge.

Mensa Member: There's some (indistinct) simple people also (indistinct) people like Blake, for example, or Buddha (indistinct) simple person. It's not this sort of faith, only child-like faith (indistinct) simple people.

Dr. Weir: It's is easier for them though. It's easier for the simple person because he doesn't have all these mental, complicated doubts and, you know, arguments with himself.

Mensa Member: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: It's said that as one progresses more in spiritual life he becomes simpler and more innocent, but in the beginning he may have had to comprehend it on some verbal level in order to (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: I often used say to my students that I've got to remember that if anything in life to realize the difference between simple and complicated, which is objective, and easy and difficult, which is subjective. In other words sometimes a simple thing may be terribly difficult for a person to get hold of. Whereas complicated things he may find quite easy.

Prabhupāda: So your student has to follow your instruction. That means accepts authority.

Dr. Weir: But even so, even if he's working something out for himself, it has that same..., to some people it comes terribly easily.

Prabhupāda: No. No. To accept authority does not mean one should be blind. But the real source of knowledge comes from authority.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: He said that sometimes someone may fear authority, that prevents them.

Prabhupāda: Of course, when you accept the... That is not fear. That is obedience, respect. Respect. That's not fear. Just like my students—they are not fearful of me. Because I came from India so what business they have got to be afraid of me. Neither I'm very..., a greater man, but they receive the philosophy, they understand the philosophy, therefore they have got respect for me. The teacher should be offered due respect. That is not fear. That is not out of fear. It's out of love.

Dr. Weir: I was saying that fear prevents it.

Prabhupāda: No. There's no prevention. There's no fear because they are quite at liberty to ask me question and they're asking and the answer is there. I receive so many letters daily. So they have no... They are not afraid of me. But, out of affection, they offer respect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Today we went to a service, a Christian service, the first one I've been to in years, and in the back of the church we walked in there were eleven old ladies sitting in the pews. And outside I could hear the roar of traffic and people. I began to think how much the Christian church has lost track or lost pull(?) of this ability to be able to guide people, the practical application of moral and spiritual principles, so much so that no one was interested to come in...

Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued leaflet regretting that these boys, he saw our students. He appreciated that these boys are so much after God and they're our boys. We could not give them. Actually the same boy was, one year or two years ago, he was not going to church, was not interested in God consciousness, but now this same boy is mad after God. And he's twenty-four hours in God consciousness. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra twenty-four hours. How they have become so...

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Dr. Singh: (Sanskrit)-mukha.

Prabhupāda: Yes, (Sanskrit)-mukha. And one American lady, when she saw these boys are chanting on the street, she was surprised. She said that "Are you Americans?" She was surprised. One priest, when I was traveling from Los Angeles to Hawaii, one priest in..., gentleman there sitting, out of his own accord he came to me and began to talk with me that "Swamiji, I see in the face of your students brightness. How you have created brightness?" He admitted that. Another priest, Christian priest in New York..., in Boston, he issued a pamphlet that "These boys and girls, they are our boys. But we see they have got this nice qualification, they are mad after God, but we could not give them." So it is a process. The madness after God is there in everywhere, in every heart. But because it is now covered, we have to...

Dr. Singh: Would you have (indistinct)? We are having dinner later, of course. I thought maybe you would want something to start with.

Prabhupāda: One glass of water will be fine.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Dr. Singh: Yes, because his wife...

Prabhupāda: That is the duty of the student, to give guru-dakṣiṇā. Whatever he wants, you must give.

Dr. Singh: Like Ekalavya gave his thumb.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Dr. Singh: Do you know that story of Ekalavya?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Singh: Fantastic story.

Prabhupāda: That give your finger just to keep the (indistinct).

Dr. Singh: To the kṣatriya. That is very unfair. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Not unfair. He thought that "He is a śūdra. He'll miss it."

Dr. Singh: So therefore he...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Dr. Singh: Therefore, he neutralized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like śūdra. In the Western countries, they are all śūdras. They are getting money and misusing on wine and women. They cannot use money (indistinct), simply for sense gratification. That is the śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, especially kṣatriya, as soon as they get money, they would make a big sacrifice to satisfy viṣṇu-yajña.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct)

Dr. Singh: Do you come every year, or is this the first time you have come (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: No. I came last year (indistinct). (indistinct) so I went back again to Los Angeles in (indistinct), in June.

Śyāmasundara: Moscow, Paris.

Dr. Singh: How did you find Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there is demand for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply artificially they have been checked. I find my market everywhere. I have sown the seed in Moscow. I have got one student.

Dr. Singh: (indistinct) the day when you chant Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Red Square.

Śyāmasundara: Ratha-yātrā, sankirtana.

Prabhupāda: You have been in Moscow?

Dr. Singh: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I was staying in that National Hotel.

Dr. Singh: Who sponsored your (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. I had some correspondence with one Professor Kotovsky, and he said that... (end)

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is not applicable in devotional service. Ahaituky apratihatā. "Because I am high-born, I will have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." No. Or "Because I am low-born, I cannot have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is not. Ahaituky. There is no such cause and effect. Apratihatā. Apratihatā, without any barrier. Everyone. The body is not barrier, we should always remember. Bodily concept of life is the consciousness of the animals, and spiritual concept of life is the consciousness of the perfect being. I am servant, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. This we should know. We should not cry for bodily problem. We should simply try to improve our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how we can better serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our business. Bodily comforts, this comfort, that is already settled up with this body. But we should also know that anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, if he has got any slight desire for bodily comfort, he'll get that. He'll get that. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if he tries, that is not possible. If I have got slight desire for my material improvement, Kṛṣṇa will satisfy you, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That means you are double way benefited. You get Kṛṣṇa consciousness as well as your desire for material benefit. That is also there. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you want to improve your material condition, that is not possible. Deha-yogena de... You may become rich, that's all right, but comfort does not depend on your richness. If you're not Kṛṣṇa conscious, it does not mean because you have got some money by struggling very hard you'll get. There are so many rich men you'll find, they are not comfortable. I have heard from our students, their parents, just like Śyāmasundara was telling, his father is taking... What is that pill?

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So we have to take knowledge from Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva. How? Vyāsadeva is the learned, most learned than others. How? That is explained in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: bhakti-yogena manasi. Because he has adopted bhakti-yoga, bhakti-yogena manasi samyak praṇihite amale (SB 1.7.4). Bhakti-yogena, by practice of bhakti-yoga one's mind and intelligence become cleansed, dirtiless, dirt..., without any dirt. Just like the mirror, if it is without any dirt, it is cleansed, clear, you can see everything rightly, your face, or even in the spot in the face, everything, corner to corner, very nicely reflected. So bhakti-yogena, by practicing this bhakti-yoga, one becomes cleared in consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then everything comes. Now suppose personally, myself, we are challenging, we are calling them by names, "rascal," but I am not a scientist. I never studied astronomy, astrology, or anything. But why I am telling? What power I have got? But I am challenging on the words of a superior answer. I am confident that the words spoken by Vyāsadeva or Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. Therefore they are rascals, because their statement do not corroborate. In other words, we can understand. That is our advantage. Bhakti-yogena. If you practice bhakti-yoga, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23), if one is, one has unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and his spiritual master, yathā-deve... Deve means the Supreme Lord, and guru, and guru also, the spiritual master. A person who has got unflinching faith in these two personalities-guru and Kṛṣṇa—then the facility will be that all the revealed scriptures will be manifest automatically, even though he is not, not very learned. The purport of the whole knowledge will be revealed from within, because Kṛṣṇa is within, and the spiritual master is without, so both of them will help. Our students are going so many places—in the schools, colleges, universities. They're surprised how they're speaking so nicely, because they have got unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. They are not so learned. They have not gone to the college and learned so many things as the materialistic students do, but on this account: bhakti-yogena manasi. Vyāsadeva also did like that. He became so great because he has accepted bhakti-yoga by the order of his spiritual master, Nārada. Before that, he wrote so many books, Purāṇas and others. He was not satisfied. When Nārada said that "You cannot be satisfied by describing so many material things. You try to describe the glories of the Lord..." So after his instruction, bhakti-yogena, by practicing bhakti-yogena, manasī, unto the mind, praṇihite, mind became settled up; intelligence, right intelligence came, and everything became amala. Amala means without any material contamination. Then he saw apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ. He saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead and also māyā. Both things he saw.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very good life.

Bob: Maybe that's just material clinging.

Prabhupāda: So just you follow in their footsteps, my other students, and it will be fulfilled, your desire. We are training to that direction, how to become purified and happy. That is our mission. We want to see everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. But people do not know how to become happy. They do not take the standard path to become happy. They manufacture their own way. That is the difficulty. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). This advice was given by Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons. "My dear boys, just undergo austerity," divyam, "for transcendental realization." Everyone is going austerity. This boy, I know, he had to go foreign countries to learn this commercial management. So many... So now he's good situated. But everyone has to undergo some austerity for future life. So why not take that austerity for permanent happiness? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena satt... Permanent happiness, you have to purify your existential body. This body, so long you will accept this material body, you'll have to change it. And as soon as you get a spiritual body there is no question of change. Spiritual body you have already. Simply now, due to our material contamination, we are developing material body. But if we associate with spiritual life, then we shall develop spiritual body. The same example I have several times given, that you put the iron rod with fire, it will develop to be fire. Is it not?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things. And that is the cause of our trouble. But Bhagavad-gītā, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ

sarva-loka-maheśvaram

suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

(BG 5.29)

But we won't take this. We shall put forward so many false proprietor, false friends, false enjoyer, and they will fight one another. This is the situation of the world. If this education is given and people takes this knowledge, there is peace, śāntim ṛcchati. Immediately there is peace. This is knowledge. And if anyone follows this principle, he's honest. He does not claim "It is mine." He everything knows it is Kṛṣṇa's, so therefore everything should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is honesty. If this pencil belongs to me the etiquette is... Just like my students sometimes do: "Can I use this pencil?" "Yes." This is etiquette, I say, "Yes, you can." Similarly, if I know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, without His permission I'll not use. That is honesty. And that is knowledge. And one does not know, he's ignorant, he's foolish, and foolish man commits all criminality.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, if we just associate long enough, then it will act upon you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One must be free from the... Aiye aiye. So let us go. Take the box.

Room Conversation Vaisnava Calendar Description -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...Rādhāṣṭami, and birth, birthday of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. This day the function is observed by fasting up to twelve noon, and then, uh, offer prasādam to the Deity, and generally in the evening we should hold meeting discussing the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa pastimes, especially the glories of Rādhārāṇī. Amongst the gopīs, her super-excellence..., that is the way of observing. Rādhārāṇī's... Fasting is up to twelve noon and after that you can take prasādam, feasting.

The next important day is on the 26th, no, 12th September, 12th September, 1970, the advent day of Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī Prabhu. (pause) On that day there are three functions. First of all, Ekādaśi, a special Ekādaśi called Pārśvaika Ekādaśi. Then on that day, actually, Ekādaśi according to calendar, Ekādaśi was to be observed on the 11th September, but because the next day is Vāmana Dvādaśī.... Vāmana Dvādaśī means the advent of Lord Vāmanadeva. Therefore we have fast., Ekādaśi fasting, and we observe two fastings in one day, Ekādaśi and Vāmanadeva, Vāmana Dvādaśī. The same process as we observe Ekādaśi, and the evening there should be a meeting discussing on the life and work of Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. He is one of the very important ācāryas in our sampradāya, so especially his Sandarbhas should be discussed. If there is no such book, then the following discussion may be, take place. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī was a brahmacārī, he left his home at the age of 10 to 12 years. His father and two elder uncles, they left home. His father was Vallabha, and his elder uncles, Sanātana and Rūpa, or Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa. So, they were all government servants, but after meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu they decided to retire from the service, and three of them retired. Out of that, Sanātana Gosvāmī was very important officer. The Nawab did not like his retirement so he interned him, not allowed him to go out of home. But Rūpa Gosvāmī and his younger brother, Vallabha, they left home, and they left instruction also to Sanātana Gosvāmī, that there is some money for his release, he could utilize that money. So Rūpa Gosvāmī and Vallabha left home prior to Sanātana Gosvāmī's leaving home. So, Rūpa Gosvāmī and Vallabha met Lord Caitanya at Prayāga—these things are mentioned in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya—you can read, teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī and their meeting with Lord Caitanya at Allahabad, Prayāga. So this boy, Jīva Gosvāmī, when he saw that his father and uncles all left home, why he should remain at home? So he also left, and he first of all went to Benares, which is called Vārāṇasī. It is a great center for learning Sanskrit. So he finished his education in Sanskrit grammar, specifically, he was a great scholar in Sanskrit grammar. According to Vedic system, the students are first of all taught the Sanskrit grammar, because it is very difficult subject. Usually one has to study grammar for 12 years, and when one is very much conversant with grammatical rules, he can read any literature.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee: All the university students.

Prabhupāda: They are all hippies. So what do we expect? They are taking education, and then, after taking education, they don't do anything. This is a problem. And so many illicit children, and the government has to supply them food, and the welfare, what is called? That welfare department?

Devotee: Social security, welfare.

Prabhupāda: Security. No, social welfare, that the girls are getting illicit children and the government has to supply food for them. Nobody is taking care of the girls, of the children. And government has to take. The responsibility is increasing, so many things, but this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will solve all the questions. It is such a nice movement. It is a boon. So you study from that point of view and prepare your journal. Therefore I am talking so many things. This is good material for your writing, practical.

Author: Sir, when somebody joins your movement, when they first come to see your movement, what presents itself to them-men with shaven heads and saffron-colored robes who dance in the street and who sing songs, strange songs—these are strange aspects. And in themselves they are not especially significant to an understanding of the philosophy, are they?

Prabhupāda: No, this is... This chanting and dancing is for mass of people, but when you want to discuss philosophy, we have got volumes of books. Yes. Both things we have got. We are attracting both the intelligent class of men and the mass of people, even the children.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The temple is calling on the phone. They want to know if you are coming to that...

Prabhupāda: No. No. It is too late. Just like there is higher studies in science, in so many departments of knowledge. It is not that mass of people is interested in Ph.D. degree. But if one is interested in Ph.D. degree, therefore government provides him: "Yes, in university, you come." That is the real facility. So if anyone is interested to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why it should be denied? Why this should be obstructed because I do not like it? In big, big universities, maybe in higher studies, there may be one student, and for that one student they are maintaining four professors. Each professor is paid two thousand dollars. Is it not a fact? What do you think, you professor. Is it not a fact? Some department of knowledge is maintained, even it is not paying. Is it not? There are so many departments simply for research work because the government knows it is important thing. It may not be for the mass of people, but at least one, two intelligent class of men, he pays, qualified: "Let them have this opportunity." So this is like that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not for ordinary man, but it is very important movement. Those who are interested, why they should be denied? It should be maintained. We cannot expect everyone can give up all these bad habits, illicit sex, illicit meat-eating, or drink, or intoxication, gambling. That is not expected. But if one wants to be for higher status of life, why he should be denied? This is not a bad thing. Why the city fathers are thinking that this should be stopped? All right, let us now... So my appeal to you, that you are journalist; you at least study this, our movement, and present very nicely. That is my request.

Author: Well, thank you very much for...

Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. Stop that. (end)

Prabhupāda: That's very natural. It is costly here. But these children and their parents also very much interested. So I think you should have a nice institution here to train the children in this country. And after their education, they may take to any line of livelihood. That doesn't matter. But the foundation... Just like in our Vedic system, first of all brahmacārī. That brahmacārī system is very nice. Even Kṛṣṇa, God Himself, He has nothing to learn. He is abhijñā. In the Vedas He is described as abhijñā: He knows everything. But just to teach us, He also became a brahmacārī in the Gurukula. Lord Rāmacandra, He also accepted a guru, Vasiṣṭha. So that is our Vedic system. Anybody may be anything, but the process is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the value of life, spiritual value of life, one must go to a guru. Tad vijñānārtham. In order to understand the spiritual value of life one must go to a guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. What is that guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "He is well learned in Vedic literature," and brahma-niṣṭham, "and firm faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." These are the two qualifications of guru. He must know all the Vedic conclusions, śrotriyam, not that he has to read, but he must hear from the authoritative sources. Just like Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the most authoritative personality. So similarly, everyone has to hear either from Kṛṣṇa or from His bona fide representative. That is śrotriyam. And the result will be that after becoming student of such bona fide guru, one will be firmly fixed up in God consciousness. That is the result, firmly fixed up. Now, these boys from foreign countries, according to our geographical arrangement, they are foreigners. But we don't see anything foreign. We see every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So we have no such distinction. But still, from materialistic point of view, these boys and girls, they, three or four years ago they did not know what is this word Kṛṣṇa. But now they are so perfectly devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and nobody can deviate them. If somebody says that "You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and take..." Now here is Śyāmasundara. His father is very, very rich man, young man. He is always canvassing him that—he is only son—that "You come, do business. You take millions of dollars, whatever you like." He is not going.

Prabhupāda: Because the United States, they are our best customer. A businessman goes to a place... Just like you have come here. Why you have come here? Wherever there is best possibility of doing your business, there you must go. I went to United States because I know these people are not poverty-stricken. And our Indian people, they are now, they have been trained to think like that—they are poverty-stricken. Actually, they are not poverty-stricken, but the leaders have educated them that, "You are all poverty-stricken." This is India's position. So far I knew that it would not be successful in India. The government will not help. The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars. They have lost their own culture and therefore they are beggars. So I thought it wise that I shall go to a country where there is no poverty. They will learn. They have enough. For material enjoyment, they have got enough. The material enjoyment means money and woman. That is, in America, it is lying on the street. As much as you like, you can take. But they are disgusted with this material enjoyment. Therefore they are coming as hippies. They are coming from very rich family. Their fathers, their grandfathers, are very rich. At least they belong to the richest nation. But they are not satisfied. They are not satisfied. That is the natural sequence.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I speak of others? Then people will be angry. Better not to touch this point. (break) At least, my position in foreign countries is far better than any swami's, up to date. Vivekananda went there in America about eighty years ago, 1893. So Ramakrishna Mission has got about four or five centers, say, within ten in America. But I have got my centers in America and Europe, forty centers, and so many students. In Ramakrishna Mission you won't find so many American boys as followers, but we have got thousands of followers, all young men, young girls. So that is my hope, that even if I die—I am seventy-six now—these boys will conduct this movement. I am sure.

Guest (1): Where were you born?

Prabhupāda: I was born in Calcutta, 1896.

Guest (1): And what did you do?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was ordinary man. That's all.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Guest (1): Thank you so much. I'm sure...

Prabhupāda: So many Indian swamis, they requested me to dress myself with coat-pants. I never agreed. You see all my pictures. They are all foreign pictures. So I never (indistinct) this dress also. Why shall I take to coat-pant? What is use? Now my students, they are giving up coat-pant. And girls, they are taking to saris. There is now good demand for saris in Europe and America.

Bhūrijana: They were even telling me that here, that I should wear like a diplomat's clothes instead of dhotīs. They don't... They were ashamed.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall go now?

Śyāmasundara: It's seven-thirty. (end)

Prabhupāda: So Buddhist religion I think animal sacrifice is prohibited, or what? Animal killing? What your religion says about animal killing. Stop or not?

Dai Nippon representative: In Buddhism, in my religion, originally it was, prohibited, but now, (laughs) somewhat changed.

Prabhupāda: So you come to again to the original. Yes. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are teaching no animal killing, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication. All my students, they are strictly following these principles all over the world. They are American, Europeans. So I have got students all over the world. Some of them from Christian, Buddhist also. I have got Japanese, Chinese, my students. Perhaps you have seen one of my students. His name is Bhānu. Formerly what was his name?

Sudāmā: Bruce Enimoto.

Prabhupāda: Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (two men speak in Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: In our religion also, the priests are vegetarian, but it is not for all.

Prabhupāda: Only priests? Only priests?

Dai Nippon representative: Priesthood. Priesthood. (Japanese) It has somewhat changed now.

Prabhupāda: We are all priests because we are preaching. All my students and myself, we are preaching. We are on the priestly level. So our philosophy is ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Everyone has got some professional or occupational duty. Just like you are printer. We are preachers. Somebody is something else. Everyone has got different occupational duty. So our philosophy is that it doesn't matter what business you are doing, but see that your life is successful. That is our philosophy. And how our life can become successful? Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). If you can preach Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. I have already explained Lord Buddha is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So if Lord Buddha is satisfied, then your life is successful. It doesn't matter what you are doing, but by your action Lord Buddha must be satisfied. Just like your assistants. Their business is to satisfy you. Whatever they may do, it doesn't matter. If you are satisfied, their business is successful.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Karandhara: He's asking how can he be relieved from such sadness when his son has died? How do we evaluate death?

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. So our program is that, as I have already explained, the success of everything depends how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So if you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you want, He will give you, benedict. I will give you one instance. It is stated in Kṛṣṇa Book. Kṛṣṇa was a student of Sāndīpani Muni. So when Kṛṣṇa finished His education, it is the system that the disciple gives some, I mean to say, reward, presentation to the spiritual master, because he has educated. So the disciple requests his spiritual master, "Now I have finished my education. I am going home." Formerly the student used to live with the spiritual master. "So how can I serve you?" So at that time the spiritual master, whatever he wants, the disciple will supply. So in the case of Kṛṣṇa, the teacher knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So when Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma asked his teacher, "How can I satisfy you?" so they requested, "My dear boys, I lost my child very young. If you kindly bring them, then I shall be very much pleased." So Kṛṣṇa went underneath the sea and brought his son back. This incident is there. So my point is that whatever you want, Kṛṣṇa will give you. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Conversation in car -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Some new devotees are joining us in our all centers?

Karandhara: Yes. Not so many as before, but the ones that are coming are much more fixed up. Before some would... Ten would come and seven would leave. But now they don't come so much, but when they come, they stay.

Prabhupāda: They stay. (sings softly) The students dress like policemen?

Sudāmā: Yes. They all wear uniform.

Karandhara: Right now there are twelve brahmacārīs in Los Angeles who are getting ready to go to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Karandhara: They'll be going on about the 5th of May, the 6th of May. I think also the same number in New York are preparing to go.

Prabhupāda: Now we have got enough place. Yes. Very nice place, Vṛndāvana. And we are expected to get another place at Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. Oh, that is very nice place also. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: So far designation is concerned, the spiritual master authorizes every one of his disciple. But it is up to the disciple to carry out the order, able to carry out or not. It is not that spiritual master is partial, he designates one and rejects other. He may do that. If the other is not qualified, he can do that. But actually his intention is not like that. He wants that each and every one of his disciple become as powerful as he is or more than that. That is his desire. Just like father wants every son to be as qualified or more qualified than the father. But it is up to the student or to the son to raise himself to that standard.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: If you are incapable of raising yourself to the standard of becoming spiritual master, that is not your spiritual master's fault, that is your fault. He wants, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā (CC Madhya 7.128), By My order, every one of you become a guru. If one cannot carry out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then how he can become a guru? The first qualification is that he must be able to carry out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then he becomes guru. So that carrying out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu depends on one's personal capacity. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā. Acceptance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Kṛṣṇa, that is there in the śāstra, in the Upaniṣads, in Mahābhārata, in Bhāgavata.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: It is not belief. It is a fact. One who does not know, he thinks it is belief. That is ignorance.

Guest (2): So how do we...

Prabhupāda: You have to learn it. You have to become student. How do you expect to learn it for nothing?

Guest (2): Learn what? Learn that there is...

Prabhupāda: That is the process, Vedic process. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). You have to learn. Just you learn so many things from teacher, similarly, these things also you have to learn.

Guest (2): In other words, this question of there being another world, it could be actually learned. There is no belief in word in that.

Prabhupāda: It is a fact.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: That's all. For burning. There is no fruits and flowers. (break)

Devotee (1): ...come on shore and get drunk and make trouble. They have their own police.

Prabhupāda: Military has their own police.

Devotee (1): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are so pious and advanced in civilization, the students require police. The dean has publicly requested police, and still they are very much proud of advancement.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The police steals too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Especially in New York.

Prabhupāda: And police also requires another police. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12).

Ātreya Ṛṣi: All these Indians coming to this country to benefit, maybe we should go to India to take care of Vṛndāvana and all these other lands.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, this movement is there.

Prabhupāda: Ah, so, what do they want?

Kīrtanānanda: They want to see you.

Prabhupāda: Why? He is not my student. So the GBC unders may see and do the needful. All affairs, how can I see everyone?

Kīrtanānanda: No. You..., I don't think you should.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Kīrtanānanda: You asked me what they wanted.

Prabhupāda: Everyone wants, but how can I see everyone? (aside:) Give it to Śyāmasundara.

Kīrtanānanda: So you will come for Janmāṣṭamī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Without fail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nanda-kumāra. Ask Nanda-kumāra. You have taken everything? Packed?

Nanda-kumāra: Almost finished. I have about five or ten minutes left.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So where is the key of the almirah?

Nanda-kumāra: Uh, it's on the key ring.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you have got one?

Nanda-kumāra: No. That turned out that that other key was the same make of key, but it didn't fit the slot. There was only one key.

Prabhupāda: They want to see me? They want to see me?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then? What he says?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He says that when they were on their way to New York City, the students distributed hundred Back to Godhead and went on saṅkīrtana.

Devotee (2): In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed over a hundred.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And Dvārakādhīśa did over a hundred in two days.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That's a great service. What is that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has a camera. He's making a movie.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why it is fixed up?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: (to devotee) What are you doing?

Devotee (3): Oh, I was watching the boys' faces... Watching them.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You're not shooting yet?

Devotee (3): No. At any time I can shoot, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. (to Prabhupāda) He's adjusting the camera.

Devotee child (2): How come you don't you carry your tridaṇḍa with you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (2): Why don't you carry your tridaṇḍa with you?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Devotee child (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you drink like that, that's śuci, right?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee child (1): When you drink like that, that's śuci.

Prabhupāda: Śuci? Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee (4): And they will be here too, and it will be nice to hear discussion.

Prabhupāda: That's right. That discussion only. Students of philosophy, theology, what is their idea of God, what they are thinking, what is their defect, we can talk. Ordinary men you can (indistinct) try to avoid. If they want some question, you can ask.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Jaya.

Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda? I am one of the teachers in the gurukula...

Prabhupāda: Ahh.

Devotee (5): ...and one of the boys, Ekendra, his mother, Kalindi, she wants to take him away from the school.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): She wants to take him away from the school. So she's leaving it up to you, to your decision, as to whether the boy goes with her or stays in the gurukula school. He's progressing very nicely at gurukula. The school is just starting. He's very intelligent boy.

Prabhupāda: So why he is taking? Why she is taking?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Kalindi wants..., likes to take Ekendra.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee (5): She's very attached.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Attached.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So she's mother. If she wants to take, what can you do? She doesn't like her son to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you can do? Where she is?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She's here, actually. She is serving Your Divine Grace.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She's here, actually. She is serving Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She is serving, but she is not sure if that would be the best thing. She's attached, maybe...

Prabhupāda: So you convince her that ordinary schools, going, there are so many ordinary schools and students, where the students are coming out useless hippies. Do you like to have your son to become hip..., which are hippies? Ask on this point.

Devotee (5): Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Because we practically see, all the college students are hippies. Irresponsible vagabonds. If she wants her son to become like that, that is different thing. Irresponsible vagabonds, that is the present status of this country. The majority of the students, they are becoming irresponsible vagabonds. Is it not?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, correct. We all have experience in that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if she, if she wants son to become irresponsible, irresponsible vagabond, in the association... Of course, our Dallas also we should take very much care so that we may not also produce irresponsible vagabond. So don't cause irresponsible vagabonds.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: No, we have no time for such talk. If he, he or she can come and see. We have no such. That is ordinary school.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Our progress is how the student is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is our point. And because he has to read nicely, he has to speak nicely, he must be literate, not illiterate.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To read your books?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: So that by reading the books they will have immense knowledge.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This generation...

Prabhupāda: This much we want.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sumati Morarjee: Because, you see today, then Swamiji was in so much trouble, I still remember. He wrote to me some letter from America, that I am sitting in the Central Park, all alone (laughter).

Devotee: Daddy can't be alone. You've got so many students, you have no time...

Prabhupāda: I was going to your agent's office, Battery...

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: Seventeen Battery Place.

Sumati Morarjee: Yeah, seventeen Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: So I was asking him, "find out when Scindia Navigation is going back." He said such and such date. All right. Then I thought, Let me stay another month, what I can do. then again I was going. He said such and such date. All right. Then I thought, let me stay another month, what I can do. Then again I was going...

Sumati Morarjee: To find out.

Prabhupāda: Find out (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Because you know.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Sumati Morarjee: No, she was alone, but the offices, we wanted to see. So I said all right, we had tape, so she does dance on that, and the other one is (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Sumati Morarjee: Two things she did. So I remembered so much.

Prabhupāda: Just see how this girl is being trained. So similarly you are teaching our students, small children, we have ordinary school at Dallas, to, because these boys and girls they're having children, they're being trained up. We are creating a new generation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Sumati Morarjee: I tell you, we have got a very good Manipuri teacher.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: Last year I was in Manipura, I took this girl with me, my (indistinct), and I stayed there eight days went to Govinda's temple and all these places.

Prabhupāda: I, we cannot pay, we have no money.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility. Otherwise why these young men are coming? That I can say. There is good possibility, but we have no facility. Just like government is spending to stop the LSD intoxication, millions of dollars. But our students, as soon as they come, they become my students, I simply order them, "No intoxication." So what to speak of LSD, they do not take tea, they do not take coffee, they do not smoke. But government will not help us. That is the difficulty.

Guest (2): Do you seek government help?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If I get government help, I can give protection to these confused, frustrated youths. I have no proper house to accommodate them, to feed them. With great difficulty I am pushing on this movement. So if the government comes forward, this means a little facility, I can turn the face of your country, immediately. There will be no problem.

Guest (2): What can you cure? What can you make better?

Prabhupāda: This is the cure: I am making good character. Don't you see their face? Some of them were hippies, frustrated, wretched condition. Now they are known as bright faces, serious character. They don't have any illicit sex. They don't eat meat. They don't have any intoxication. They don't engage in gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. If you allow people to indulge in sinful life, how you can expect good citizen? That is not possible. Their character must reform. So we have taken from the root. We are making men of character, knowledge, sincerity, God conscious. Don't you appreciate it?

Guest (2): Will they be able to function in a society as working individuals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is nothing prohibited. Simply you have to change your consciousness, that's all. We are also eating, we are also sleeping. Many of our students are householders; they have sex. So there is..., nothing is prohibited, but regulated for higher achievement. That is our program.

Guest (2): Have you asked the government for money? President Nixon?

Prabhupāda: No. What is the use of asking? Who will give me? Why shall I be refused? If you think this, this movement is serious, good, then you come forward. I cannot approach the government and the government says no. I don't think it is good for the government.

Guest (2): Do you see yourself then as the savior of American youth?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. It is saved already. Why? It is not future, it is present, practical.

Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following. Gradually they will also become student. So it is a very important movement, scientific movement. I therefore request learned scholars like you, government, scientist, philosopher, they should study. For them we have written so many books. Not only that. It is not that we are simply chanting and dancing. If you are philosopher, if you are scholar, if you are scientist, we can give you proof in a scientific way, in a philosophical way, scholarly way; therefore these books are there. So my only request is that all the leaders of the society, they should come forward, study this movement and take to it. That will be beneficial.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. (laughter). Yes. So, what is our business with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? (child makes noise) (aside) This child will disturb. Our, this movement is that we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. If I love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then naturally I will be obedient to the laws of God. It is not? Just like these, my students, when, say four or five years ago, I came here, I had no student. I was loitering in the street. Nobody was caring for me. Now I have got hundreds and thousands of student. They can do whatever I order. So I did not pay them anything, neither I brought any money from India, but they are executing my order simply out of love. Is it not a fact? Because they have developed a love for me... The reason may be whatever it may be, but unless they have developed love for me, how they can execute my order without any personal profit? Therefore this is first thing required, that religion means to abide by the orders of God. Simple thing. And this obedience to the laws of God will be automatically performed if everyone loves his dormant love for God. We have taken this science. We are teaching everyone how to love God. If he thinks that "I have learned to love God through some particular religion," we have no objection. Either he is Christian or Hindu or Muslim or whatever he may be, if by executing the religious principles which he is professing he has developed his love of God, then we have nothing to preach to him. The result is there. But because we don't find the love of God is there, that we are putting a simple formula that "Here is the way." By utilizing or by accepting that way he will very quickly love God. So if we agree, if we are convinced that to love God is religion, and that is our main business in the human form of life, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the genuine scientific movement. Everyone should take it.

Prabhupāda: Your real dimension is mentioned there that you are a spiritual atom. The measurement is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That is the seed, or basic principle. Now, on that small particle of spirit soul we have developed this body. We have got human bodies, other has got the elephant body, other has got the mountainous body, but this is external. The real seed is that one ten-thousandth part of the hair. Similarly, as you have developed this material body under different consciousness, similarly when we give up the material connection we shall develop our spiritual body, and in that spiritual body we shall be able to enter the kingdom of God, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position. This body you have to give up, today or tomorrow or one hundred years after. You have to give it up. The Bhagavad-gītā says after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), he comes to Me. So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.

Guest (1): I like my students.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (1): I like my students. I think they're on the right track.