Stone (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"stone" |"stone's" |"stoned" |"stonelike" |"stones" |"stoney"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: I notice that most of your followers, at least in this temple, are young, like in the college age or in the teenage. Is it because Kṛṣṇa doesn't attract the older generation, I mean, yourself excluded?

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone. Just like magnetic stone attracts iron. But the iron is covered with too much muddy things—the magnetic force does not work. This younger generation, they are not too much dirty; therefore they are very easily attracted. You see? It is like a magnetic force. The same example, that magnetic force attracts iron. That is natural. But if the iron is too much rusty and covered with muddy things, then it does not act. So older generation means they are convinced in some way. They cannot accept any new thing. You see? They are in the last stage of life. Whatever they have understood, they cannot forget. But younger generation, they have got capacity to take new things. Just like nobody goes... No old man goes to school because they are unable to receive education. But younger generation, they go. So there is a age to receive. So this age is recipient. Therefore naturally—it is nice thing—they are receiving.

Room Conversation -- March 25, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: "...you, under the direction of Lord Śiva. I worshiped Lord Śiva very successfully, and I prayed from him some sources of my happiness. So he has directed me to see you, that you have got that thing. So please give me that." So Sanātana Gosvāmī said "Well, what can I give you? Oh, all right. Can you find out some stone in that garbage?" There were heaps of garbage, and the man searched out and found out a stone. "Sir, do you mean to say this stone?" "Yes." "So what is this?" "This is touchstone. You take it and touch it to iron. It will become gold." "Oh, you are very ... You're so... Now I shall become the richest man in the world. I shall take heaps of iron and touch with this stone, and it becomes gold." So he, with great joy, he went out and he tried that actually, touching the stone, iron is becoming gold. But he thought that, "Lord Śiva directed that Sanātana Gosvāmī has the greatest benediction, I do not think this stone is greatest benediction because it was placed with garbage." So he came back and appealed to Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Lord Śiva told me you have got something most valuable. I don't think this stone is most valuable. Otherwise, why would you keep it in the garbage? You must have something more valuable. So you must give me that because that because Lord Śiva directed me to receive from you." Then Sanātana Gosvāmī told him, "Would you like to take that?" "Yes, sir. I have come for that purpose." So he asked him, "First of all, throw away the stone in the Yamunā River." So he threw away the stone. "Sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation -- March 25, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Very good. Generally, on the head of the flute is given the mouth of the shark. Shark fish. You have seen shark? Like that... But that is also good.

Śyāmasundara: Swamiji? I have obtained today a large piece of...

Prabhupāda: Stone? Flat.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Marble. For Kṛṣṇa comes home,(?) back of Kṛṣṇa.(?)

Prabhupāda: Very nice. So it is not so high. How much it is, height?

Śyāmasundara: This one is only for practice. And then I have obtained...

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.

Śyāmasundara: ...a large one. It is very difficult stone because it's like glass almost. I have to practice. And later a larger one.

Prabhupāda: So first of all you... This is called, what is called, test stone.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Praṣṭhipāta, it is called in Bengali. They test gold. By rubbing on the stone, they can understand what is the value of the gold. In India they are simply keeping a stone like this, and you take something golden, and they will at once test by simply rubbing on it. So experienced. By the glazing of the gold they will understand what is the value of this. It is experience. But this stone is used.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: So I'll offer one day sweet rice to Kṛṣṇa in this pot. I have asked already Govinda dasi to make little sweet rice and offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then the pot will be used. Yes. (break) ...India still, amongst the Hindu family, whenever they use some new thing, household, they'll offer first of all to the Deity. Every family has got Deity. Every Hindu family, especially the high class, brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, they must have Nārāyaṇa-śilā. You know Nārāyaṇa-śilā? Śālagrāma.

Janārdana: Stone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is worshiped in every family. Arcye śilā-dhīḥ. Śilā means stone. So arcye, the worshipable... I think this is correct.

Janārdana: Yeah, it's correct.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Past five-twenty. What is your time?

Guest: I have twenty-five after.

Prabhupāda: This is right?

Yamunā: Yes. Well, no. It's five minutes slow.

Janārdana: Think so? I don't know. My watch is ten or five minutes fast. My watch is always fast.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, this is still slow. This is correct time now.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: We should just reproduce that as it is?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Hayagrīva: Gurudāsa has some very excellent pictures from the archives taken from books that were printed several hundreds of years ago, Bhagavad-gītā and some woodcuts of Nṛsiṁha, which would be considered quite artistic, but maybe we can send them to you to see if they meet your approval and maybe reproduce them.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever card, form, we get, unless we have got arrangement for worship... Of course, we can keep, but our, any form, wooden or stone, that should be worshiped.

Hayagrīva: These are photographs, these are pictures.

Prabhupāda: Oh, pictures. Then it is all right. All right. It is all right?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. That's all.

Prabhupāda: That's all. So now distribute prasādam. First of all, chant once more Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: But preaching is our most important business. People are suffering for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as representative of Kṛṣṇa, it is our duty to enlighten them, and we should accept all kinds of... But there is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? I think we are living better than anyone in the world. (laughter) Where is the difficulty? Simply we have to be very sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Everything. So in that position, go on preaching. Don't be tottering. You have taken a great responsibility; go on executing it. Don't fight amongst yourselves for petty things. Go on, advance. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) Now we are going to have a great ceremony in India, Māyāpur. They have got... I have purchased one land. I took contribution 25,000 from Birla. I wanted 100,000, he gave me 25,000. That's all right. So with that money I purchased one land. So it is just to be developed. The foundation stone, cornerstone laying down. In India we require another..., altogether at least one hundred men, Americans. So contribute some men from each and every center. We have got fifty centers..., how many centers now?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: These people or this revolution is meant for killing the sinful resultant actions of the people. This revolution. Janatā agha, agha means resultant action of sinful life. Janatā agha viplavaḥ. Viplavaḥ means revolution, this very word is used. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api (SB 1.5.11). Such revolutionary literature, even they are not properly composed. Yasmin prati-ślokam abaddham. Not according to the grammatical rules and other rhetorical rules, but the, I mean to say, thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature is required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts. What is the thought is there? Therefore, it is said that tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat (SB 1.5.11). If there is simply the attempt is there how to glorify the Supreme Lord, that is a fact. It doesn't matter whether it is written in correct language or incorrect language, it doesn't matter. If the whole thought is targeted to glorify the Supreme Lord, then nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat gṛṇanti gāyanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ. Then those who are actually sādhu, even in spite of all these defects, because the only attempt is to glorify the Lord, then those who are sādhu, those who are devotee, they hear it. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti. Not only hear, they chant also the same thing. And not only chant, but gṛṇanti, they apply in their actual life. This is the Bhāgavata śloka. Is it clear now? Yes. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo (SB 1.5.11). If the thought is revolutionary for transcendental realization, even it is not properly composed from grammatical and literary point of view, because the attempt is there for glorifying the Supreme Lord, all devotees, all great sages, saintly persons, sādhavaḥ, gṛṇanti, they accept. Yes. Gṛṇanti śṛṇvanti, hear with attention, and gāyanti, and chant also. This is the principle. The only center is whether it is meant for awakening God consciousness. That is the central point, not the language(?). But it does not mean that it should not be correctly written. Correctly or incorrectly, if it is spoken by realized soul, that is important. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti. Somehow or other, if the attempt is to glorify the Supreme Lord; otherwise, if the attempt is to kill the Supreme Lord... Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan, what is the value of such erudition? A rascal. That is called (Sanskrit), jugglery of words. It has no value. Anyone who is trying to present... Just like Aurabindo, he has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa and writing so many nonsense things. Vivekananda, he has no idea. Dr. Radhakrishnan. Rabindranath Tagore, he has no idea what is God, but he is writing Gītāñjali. That should be tested by life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaking āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya, He behaves Himself perfectly and then teaches how to become a devotee. He is mad after Kṛṣṇa, He is falling down in the sea. You see? So that is wanted. And the Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir (SB 1.2.6), how one has increased his devotion and love for Kṛṣṇa, that is the test of it. Not these formalities. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Even sudurācāraḥ, even not well behaved but unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Don't consider about his misbehaviors. That is not consideration. That will be corrected. Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually those things, those defects will be corrected. kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati, he will become very soon a great religious soul because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa. So in the beginning if there is some defect, we should not consider that. We have to see how much his love for Kṛṣṇa has increased, that is the test. Not the formalities. That is the test, how much he has sacrificed for Kṛṣṇa, how much he is prepared to sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa. If one takes Kṛṣṇa for making business, that is different thing, that is not devotion. Śālagrāma, my Guru Maharaja used to say śālagrām bir badam hoy (?). Just like you have seen śālagrāma. So if somebody takes that and breaks peanuts, so there is no devotion. It is a show during, attracting the visitors, it is nicely decorated, but in their absence, take it and you will have stone. So all this mostly the temple show is going on like that. They have made it a show of business. The devotees will come and pay something and I may have devotion or not devotion, it doesn't matter. One should be baccha bankaram suci (?), inside and outside perfect.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya soṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. Jaḍa-vidyā, this material advancement, jaḍa vidyā, they are simply stumbling blocks for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more one is enamored by this so-called material advancement, the more he is disqualified to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because time we have got limited. If we waste our time for so-called material advantages, then we spoil our time. We cannot utilize the time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is the necessity of human life. Therefore, in the history of India there is opulence, but that opulence is of different kind. By nature they used to enjoy life—enough jewels, enough gold, enough silk, enough food, enough metals. You see? By natural product. They could find where there is a big hill of gold only. These are there. And actually gold is found in some mine within the material arrangement. Why there should not be any hill of gold? As there are hills of stone, and marble, why not gold? You do not know. Your utensils are only plastic. It is worth nothing. So that was their material advancement. Gold, silver, jewels, corals, sapphire, diamond. Just see Kṛṣṇa's palace described. Not these rascal chairs, cushions, but with ivory, gold. And the cushion is as soft as the foam of milk. (laughter) These things are description there. And the rooms are bedecked with jewels. You don't require this electric light at night. And outside these parijāta flowers. You have read all this?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body. Just like President Nixon, if he kindly comes to your house, it does not mean that his position and your position is the same. It is his kindness, out of love, he may come to your house, but that does not mean he is on the same level with you. Similarly, because we cannot see with our present eyes what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears before us as painting, as made of stone, as made of wood. And Kṛṣṇa is not different from these paintings and wood because everything is Kṛṣṇa.

Bhakti-devī dāsī: After we die, what happens to our spirit?

Prabhupāda: You get another body.

Bhakti-devī dāsī: Immediately?

Prabhupāda: Yes. After your, just like you change your apartment, you fix up your apartment first, then you leave this and go there.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they give all these books. When we started school, we are taught with these..., or we are supplied with this information right from the beginning, the history of mankind and then how this started. So they give all this information.

Prabhupāda: Stone Age. What is that, Stone Age? And before that?

Jayatīrtha: Dinosaurs.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: Before that they had dinosaurs.

Devotee (2): Prehistoric.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Jayatīrtha: Even from a commonsense point of view, it's easy to understand that there's been civilization longer than five thousand years (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is the first creature of this universe is Lord Brahmā, who has created the universe. First creature of this universe, the most intelligent person. How we can accept the nonsense that this has developed from stone? (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). Do you know this story?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) as man progresses, the mark of his progression is his ability to use tools to a greater extent. Like there was the Stone Age. In the Stone Age, they used stones for tools. Then there was the Bronze Age, so they made weapons out of bronze, knives and so on. Then they invented the wheel.

Prabhupāda: Modern age.

Jayatīrtha: So as their science progressed, then they progressed and were able to utilize nature.

Prabhupāda: So what is that progress? The caves are still there, somebody is living here. Then where is the progress? As the caves are still there and somebody is living here and skyscrapers, they are also, similarly, when you (indistinct) the cave (indistinct), there were palaces(?) but we could not see them. Both things are existing, but you studied only one side. Here is your history, see. Kṛṣṇa has sixteen thousand palaces and there was no need of light. Jewels, all jewels. Everything is existing side by side.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So due to a lack of morals, they cannot see the real side.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they are seeing only the caves. Just like they are going to the moon. They are going to the desert of the moon and they are concluding the moon is a desert. That's all. The other side is prohibited.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In Mahratta (?).

Prabhupāda: Mahratta (?), yes. Then the intimate relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha grew. In this way, I think in 1933, yes, the Sir Malcolm Haley came to lay down the foundation stone of Allahabad Maṭha. Mahārāja, I think you remember, yes?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, we were coming from Vṛndāvana parikrama.

Prabhupāda: Yes, parikrama. And the parikrama, that is also another incident that... I, I was not initiated at that time, but I had very good admiration for these Gauḍīya Maṭha people, and before, before 1933 I met Śrīdhara Mahārāja and other devotees, old Tīrtha Mahārāja. So they were kind to me. Now, the parikrama, I thought, "What these people are doing in this parikrama? Let me go." So I met them in Kosi. Parvata Mahārāja, you may remember, and all people were going to see some Sesasayi.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Assume, everyone can assume. That is not science. Assuming, then, everyone can suggest something like. You can suggest something, I can suggest something. What is the proof? We can prove that life begins from life. Just like father begets a child. Father is living and the child is living. That we can prove. But where is your proof that the father is a stone and the son is a child? Where is your proof? We say that life begins from life. The original life is Kṛṣṇa. That we can prove. But you say that life begins from matter. Where is this evidence that a child is born out of stone.

Karandhara: There's a miss... They say there's a missing link.

Prabhupāda: A missing link? Then I kick on your face. You're missing this kick. Now learn it. Nonsense. Here is the missing point. Just learn it. Write vigorous articles to kick on the face of these rascals. All of you. You have got so much advanced laboratories, advanced knowledge. You do not... even you are defying the authority of God. You have become so great. And you cannot prove that life is coming out of matter. That you are leaving aside for future. And I have to believe such a rascal? Do you think it is nice? You are talking all nonsense, and I have to believe you?

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kāma-karmabhiḥ. Avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. They are creating a situation of suffering by unnecessary desire. That's all. So your scientific improvement means you are creating a situation of suffering. That's all. No improvement. You cannot. Kāma-karmabhiḥ, kāma-karmabhiḥ. They are working in such a way... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also says the same thing: anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. The so-called scientific improvement means he's already an ass, and he's becoming more, better ass. That's all. Nothing more. He's already an ass because he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and he has come to this material world to enjoy. That is ass mentality. There is no enjoyment. So he's already an ass. And this scientific improvement means he's becoming more attached to this material world to remain better ass. Avidyā... anitya saṁsāre, anitya. He cannot stay here. Suppose, working very hard like an ass, he gets a skyscraper building, throughout his whole life, laboring. But he cannot stay there. He'll be kicked out. Is it not ass? Is he not an ass? He cannot stay there. Anitya saṁsāre. Anitya. Because it is not the permanent settlement. You are trying: dum dum. (sound imitation) Very strong foundation. That's all right. But your foundation is nothing. You'll be kicked out. Therefore he's an ass. That: "I'll stay here for twenty years." Why dum dum dum, foundation stone? Where is your foundation? Therefore he's an ass.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the fact. The so-called scientists, they are going on a wrong theory. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of everything." So Kṛṣṇa is life. Kṛṣṇa is not dead stone. Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the source of everything." He is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is not a dead stone. Then how matter can be the cause of life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Matter is caused by life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, matter grows upon life. Just like why this body has grown upon me? I am the spirit soul. This is māyā. Just like, this is... I have explained in Bhagavad-gītā. I am putting on this overcoat. The overcoat is made according to the size of my body, but I am thinking, "I am overcoat." This is foolishness. Just like I got my hand, therefore this overcoat is made of warm cloth. It has got a hand also. Because originally I have got hand, therefore the overcoat has got a hand. Similarly, originally I am spirit soul, I have got my spiritual body, and the material body has grown, cut according to the body.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is explained that asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). These rascals, these demons they say like that, that this is asatya, this is untruth. There is no cause. There is no īśvara. This is the demoniac declaration. If Kṛṣṇa is fact, His creation is fact. His energy is fact. Why shall I say false? We don't say it is false. The Māyāvādīs say it is false.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: If someone looks at the Deity of Kṛṣṇa and thinks it's only stone or wood, for him it's still material?

Prabhupāda: That is his ignorance. How it can be material? The stone is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like electricity energy is there everywhere. The electrician knows how to utilize it, how to take electricity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, even in the stone. The devotees know how to utilize stone to appreciate Kṛṣṇa. The devotees know. The rascal, they do not know. Because the devotee has no other view than Kṛṣṇa. Why stone should be without Kṛṣṇa? Here is Kṛṣṇa. That is real oneness. And the Māyāvādī philosopher they say oneness, but divide. This is stone, this is not Kṛṣṇa. Why second? Why you bring another thing?

Devotee: Good and bad, evil and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Is it so for a Kṛṣṇa conscious man that Kṛṣṇa is as much in the stone as in the Deity?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Just as much?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Paramahaṁsa: But we order mūrtis all the way from India?

Prabhupāda: That is stated that, "Everything is in Me but I'm not there." This is acintya-bheda... mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is Kṛṣṇa but you cannot worship this bench as Kṛṣṇa. That is rascaldom.

Karandhara: Kṛṣṇa says, "Worship me in this way."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) Just like the sunshine. That is also sun. Is it not? But you cannot say when the sunshine is in the room, you cannot say, "The sun is my room." This is called acintya-bhedābheda.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: But still you said one can see Kṛṣṇa within the stone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Paramahaṁsa: And one can worship Him within the stone or within everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We worship everything. We worship everything, see Kṛṣṇa everywhere. We don't see the tree. We see Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the tree's also worshipable because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy both are worshipable. Therefore we say Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare means Kṛṣṇa's energy. We worship everything. In our childhood we are taught by our parents, if there is small grain and if it is strut (?) on the feet, we shall pick it up and touch on the forehead. We are taught like this, how to see everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We cannot therefore see anything wasted, anything misused. Why you are preaching? Why we are after so many rascals? That his life is being misused. Let us give him some enlightenment. This is our mission. Or let him go to hell. Just like Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they're engaged in meditation or in the Himalayas, but we have come to Los Angeles. Why? This is our mission. Oh, these things, these people are being misused under māyā, let him gain some enlightenment. This is our mission. We are teaching that, how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. How to understand Kṛṣṇa in everything. That is our mission. See Kṛṣṇa in everything. Yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra. Everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you read? Sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati, yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra, "Anyone who sees Me everywhere and sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati... and everything in Me, he's perfect."

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is Vedic version, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, everything is Brahman.

Revatīnandana: When we speak about the transmigration of the soul, we speak about 8,400,000 species. Does that include the inanimate objects as well, within those 8,400,000?

Prabhupāda: Sthāvara, sthāvara, they are called sthāvara, immovable. He means hills, mountains, stones. They are called sthāvara. Sthāvara, which cannot move.

Revatīnandana: So actually we don't really...

Prabhupāda: Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two million types of sthāvara.

Revatīnandana: So we don't actually discriminate between the tree, and say, the atom, as a living entity.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Haribol. Little by little it's becoming clear.

Prabhupāda: Sthāvara, sthāvara means one cannot move, standing. Sthāvara-jaṅgama. There are two kinds of living entities. One moving, one not moving.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Sthāvara, sthāvara means one cannot move, standing. Sthāvara-jaṅgama. There are two kinds of living entities. One moving, one not moving.

Yogeśvara: But the atom is always in motion. The atoms and molecules are always constantly moving.

Prabhupāda: That movement is different. That is not independent movement.

Yogeśvara: Is that to say that a stone has a living entity in it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Actually what we discussed is that every, even the elements, the atoms, everything is made of nothing but spirit souls in fallen conditions. Because everything comes from brahma-jyotir, which is nothing but spirit souls, and brahma-jyotir... Therefore soul never changes. So this manifestation is from brahma-jyotir. Therefore, it is made of souls. It is nothing else but spirit souls. Yesterday, a few days ago we discussed that.

Prabhupāda: It is simply covered by another energy which is called material energy. And that is māyā. Māyā means that is not actual, not factual. The example is given, just like the sun is covered by the cloud. The cloud is nothing but another creation of sun. But when the cloud comes, sun is invisible. Similarly this condition, forgetfulness, is my creation and when I am covered by this forgetfulness I become stones and atoms, like that.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: She said, ah, "What a relief to be able to pass all responsibility to Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that one has to learn, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. The sentiment is very nice. It is just fitting from the royal... Because she's after all favored, she has taken birth in the royal family, so she is not ordinary woman. And her intelligence must be extraordinary. So she has remarked like that, what is that exact word?

David Wynne: I think the exact word... She said "How marvelous to be able to give all responsibility to Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is ready.

David Wynne: Yes. And she said...

Prabhupāda: But the thing is from our side Kṛṣṇa expects something.

David Wynne: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not a dead stone. Reciprocal. If you fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa takes full responsibility. If you keep some reservation, Kṛṣṇa also keep reservation.

David Wynne: Yeah.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: Yes. But it feels like it when one creates it. One's surprised and didn't know what it was going to be like and cannot claim it.

Prabhupāda: No. God supplies the ingredients. That just like you are working on stone. So who has supplied the stone?

David Wynne: Yes, this I can understand because it's...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you are working on the stone with your intelligence, but who has supplied you the intelligence? You are working with your hand, but who has supplied you the hand? In this way, if we consider that everything belongs to God; therefore the result must be given to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

David Wynne: Sometimes one gets in the way. Sometimes one, when one's own wishes intrude, one can spoil what's being made by trying to put one's own ideas at the wrong time. But at other times, even with somebody who's as bad at it as me, the, something else does come through, doesn't it? The, the, what should be there if one senses and stands back and lets it come.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Sometimes it is not successful?

Śyāmasundara: When we try artificially to impose our idea on something, say, a sculpture, sometimes we make a mistake and it comes out not good.

Prabhupāda: That mistake you are responsible.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: ...and something to wash hands in. (door closes)

Prabhupāda: No, he's bringing. You can take.

Śyāmasundara: David has said that he would like to spend some time, a day or something, making also your form into stone. Is that...? Or into some metal. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Well, what I am? I am insignificant. I have no objection. Our, some of our artists may paint this picture. I liked it very much. (Probably speaking of picture of Ratha cart in the Guardian newspaper)

Śyāmasundara: It's a very good photo.

Mukunda: It was taken in such a way so that the cart looks like it is almost as tall as Nelson's Column. Fish-eye lens.

Śyāmasundara: Very clever person who has thought up this idea.

Prabhupāda: No other publication?

Śyāmasundara: I didn't see the newspapers today. I saw two or three, but on Sunday the reporters do not work. So if they were reporters coming, they came outside of their work hours. Some... I heard on television last night, though, there was a half hour program.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: So we see in the creation of God, it also traces back to the Creator.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Creation means the Creator. Just like when I see the picture of so many sculptor. So who has done it? I come to David. To appreciate the creation means you have to come to the point, appreciating the Creator. Otherwise, it is not finished. Or your knowledge is imperfect still. So these scientists, they are simply trying to study the creation. They have no knowledge about the Creator. That is the defect. Neither do they try, neither they can understand. They are so foolish and poor fund of knowledge. They should try to understand the Creator also. Then the knowledge is perfect. Just like the scientists, they are theorizing that life began from matter, chemicals. But wherefrom the chemicals came? That is insufficient knowledge. They say, "Chemicals existed." Now, we have no such experience... Just like we ate some purīs. Purīs had to be created. Not that existed. It is existing, but when I require, I have to create it. The crude example. The chemicals, wherefrom the chemicals came? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. In this way you have to study. Simply to study the creation, that is imperfect knowledge. When you come to the Creator, then it is perfect. Just like if you see simply his sculptures, so many things, that is not perfect knowledge. Why this book is "David Wynne"? Now, you go to the creator. And ...the all appreciation is there, credit is given there. That is perfect. Otherwise, you see, so many stones are there, figures are there. But when you study that "This is the creation of such and such artist, sculptor, and he's such and such," then that is perfect. Study him.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This matter which you are seeing, this is manifested. But there is material stock, unmanifested. A stock of water, stock of fire, stock of earth. Layer. This universe is covered by different layers, and each layer is ten times bigger than the other layers. That is unmanifested. That is unmanifested. Therefore vyakto 'vyaktāt. This, what we see, this is manifested, but the stock... Just like from the stock of your, I mean to say, stone and lime and cement and brick, you make a skyscraper building, manifested. But the stock is also there. Stock is also there. Similarly this manifested material world is there. It is taken from the stock. The stock is, a huge stock there is. We get information. Layer, the universe. And penetrating all these layers, we have to go to the spiritual world.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata there is that Kṛṣṇa took Arjuna, His friend, penetrating the layers to the spiritual world. He, He took him. You have read that in the Kṛṣṇa Book? There is... You have read?

David Lawrence: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: That's great. (pause, Prabhupāda hums) (talking about fruit:)

Prabhupāda: How to cut it?

Śyāmasundara: Pull, pull the two hard...

David Lawrence: Wise man. Hand it on. It's always the stones that are the problem.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Clings.

David Lawrence: The carpet is going to be sticking people to it.

Śyāmasundara: It's really stuck on there.

David Lawrence: Yes, try four also. That's it. It's a wonder that technology... I suppose technology has produced a machine that does it.

Prabhupāda: Hm. The technology is here in the teeth. (laughter) God has given.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. You'll have to eat the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to eat. That is the technology.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they produce these stones also, mean puṣyanna-kṣatra. So therefore it is said that kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). And this parjanyaḥ, or the rainfall, is made possible by performing sacrifices. You read that portion, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ.

Pradyumna: This is from Bhagavad-gītā. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ (BG 3.14).

Prabhupāda: Annād bhavanti bhūtāni means by eating sufficiently, the living entities, they grow, they become strong, both animals and human beings. Then?

Pradyumna: Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ.

Prabhupāda: And the anna, these grains, they are produced from parjanyaḥ, from clouds. Now? Next?

Pradyumna: Yajñād bhavati parjanyo...

Prabhupāda: And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And when we regularly perform yajña, then there is regular cloud in the sky. And when there is cloud in the sky, there is regular rainfall, and when there is regular rainfall, there is sufficient production of food grains, fruits and other vegetables so that both the animal and the human beings, they eat sufficiently, they grow strength, they become happy and again perform yajña. And the animals supply, the cow supplies milk. In this way, the whole society becomes happy. These are the prescriptions, or directions, given by the Vedic literature. So if people take advantage of this instruction, as you have mentioned in your article "The Great Seers," so if we follow their instruction, the whole history of the human being can be changed. There is no difficulty. But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: To keep people in ignorance, in darkness, is ajānat. Ajānat. The Sanskrit word is ajānat. Lokasya ajānat. Ajānat means to keep in darkness. They do not know anything about the importance of life. Ajānat. Yayā sammohito jīva ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam (SB 1.7.5). By this ajānat principle a man considers that this, "I am this matter." They are all doing all these things because they have no spiritual understanding.

David Lawrence: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Taking the body as lump of matter. That's all. To break a stone and to kill the body of a child is the same thing. They think like that.

David Lawrence: And yet the incredible thing is the obsession with making life longer. I mean, what is the point of making a life longer that is a worthless life anyway? Because they're so materialistic.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: Take a man, somebody could say he's given a great deal of enjoyment, a man like Walt Disney, you know. He's had his body put into...

Prabhupāda: Well, longer life, you can see this tree, you'll find at least five hundred years old. So this kind of longer life, what is the value? What is the value? There are many trees... I have seen one tree in San Francisco, seven thousand years old.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why should you be bad qualified? (Bengali) Logic, it is logical. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Where is the illogic. You have passed your childhood body, you have passed your youth-hood body, you are in a different body. Although you are in a different body, you are existing. What better logic you can discover? You cannot discover any better logic than this. Don't accuse that we are illogical, don't accuse. We are logical, completely logical. But we have got brain to understand. Yes. Logic, you can put forward, but one must have the brain to understand it. If one is dull like stone, how he can understand logic? This is very clear logic. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na... (BG 2.13), dhīraḥ, one who is sober, coolheaded, he understands. "Yes, it is all right."

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But you should apply your reason, from practical life, whether life is produced from matter, or matter is produced from life. Our proposition is: matter is produced from life, not life is produced from matter. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Absolute Truth is that from whom or from which everything emanates. Now that Absolute Truth, whether he's life or dead stone. So that is discussed: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). That Absolute Truth must be cognizant. So as soon as you say cognizant, then He's alive. Abhijñaḥ. That, that means if I say: "I have produced all these things that is within the room," then means I must have brain. I must be experienced how to do it. How I can be dead, matter? Has the matter has got such thing? The origin of creation must be a living being.

Dr. Hauser: But somewhere... If I can... But in this, there is also the creation of life, when...

Prabhupāda: Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter? Is there any evidence in the history?

Dr. Hauser: No, but as we know, the evolution of life has gone through different stages of... How do you...?

Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory. Do you mean to say, Darwin's theory?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā—tāre bali 'kām (CC Adi 4.165).' That is material. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma. That is spiritual.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why "Should have created"? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuṇṭha. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation), everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other fools, they say, "We are perfect now." In a fallen condition also, they're thinking perfect. That is māyā. Āsurīṁ rākṣasīṁ caiva mohinīṁ prakṛtiṁ śritāḥ. Kṛṣṇa has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he's imperfect?

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Nature is controlled by Me." Therefore He is absolute controller. But He is not controlled by anyone. Therefore He is absolute controller. Just like a, what is called? Magnetic stone?

Hṛdayānanda: Magnet?

Prabhupāda: Magnet, it attracts.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Iron filings.

Prabhupāda: Iron filings. But who has given this power to this magnetic stone? You cannot give.

Karandhara: They say, "It's just there by nature's arrangement."

Prabhupāda: That is answered: "Nature is controlled by God."

Karandhara: Well, they prefer to leave nature as nondescript. When they say or designate as "nature," they prefer to leave that nondescript, nonspecific.

Prabhupāda: Why? That means insufficient knowledge. They do not wish to describe it because your foolishness will be discovered.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the case of a magnet, suppose if I take a piece of iron and if I magnetize it by electrical current, it will act as a magnet. So they say...,

Prabhupāda: Yes, but the iron is not manufactured by you. Neither the magnetic stone is manufactured by you. You take nature's product and utilize it. That is not your original creation. So what is credit to you? You can transform. That is in your hand. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). There are two things: material and spiritual, inferior energy and superior energy. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho. The living entities, they are superior energy. Why superior? They can take the materials and handle. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. That is your superior energy. You can take the matters and combine it and make something else. That is the world, going on, matter and spirit. You have created your own body by your desire. So that you can do, but the materials, the body, you cannot create. That is not in your power.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Kṛṣṇa has given us free will to choose or reject the godly life. Should the government take away that free will of whether they choose to...

Prabhupāda: No, that free will is not to be given. It is already there. Rather, Kṛṣṇa says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." There is also free will. When you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform you serve Kṛṣṇa with free will, not that you become a stone. There is free will. Just like our devotees they are dressing Kṛṣṇa nicely, is there no free will? They are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Is there no free will? The free will is there. The Māyāvādī philosopher says, the Buddha philosopher says, that "Stop this free will, and then you become happy." But our proposition is not to stop free will but purify free will. Purify. Not stop these eyes. Just if it is suffering from cataract, cure that cataract. Keep the eyes. And their proposition, "Get out these eyes and throw it. Then there will be no more seeing what is right and wrong." That is their proposition. Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Nirviśeṣa means no speciality, no varieties. That is nirviśeṣa. And śūnya, zero. When it is zero, then there is no question of right and wrong. So our philosophy is not that. There is no zero, and there is no varieties. We don't say. There is, but it's purified varieties. Tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Nirmalam means purified. So our process is to purify everything. We don't want to stop. That is not our proposition.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So anyway, there are so many laws. If the laws are fulfilled, then your so-called gravitation works. So who made the laws? That is the point. Under certain law, condition, it will not act, and under certain condition it will act. So who made the condition? That is the question. You cannot make finalize the laws of gravitation. It is also under condition. Who makes this condition? That is the point. (break) ...Lord Rāmacandra constructed the bridge with stone on the ocean, it began to float. So He is the condition-maker. He made the condition. He changed the condition, "Now these stones will float." That's all. Therefore God is supreme. (break) Law of gravitation did not work when Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill. (break) So that is nice. The scientific discoveries act under relative condition. That is not absolute, final. If such and such conditions are there, then the so-called scientific laws will act. Otherwise it will not act. (break) ...see. But you cannot see even so many things. Now you cannot see there, what is there. So what is that seeing power?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's limited.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Highest stage?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Highest stage, everything animate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So a stone... Even a stone has soul.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, yes. Just like this tree. You cut; it does not protest. The consciousness is not developed. That is the... But it has got life. You scientists, you do not believe that stone has also life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they say it's just matter.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say there's no life there.

Prabhupāda: No, there is life.

Nitāi: Every stone has life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, dead stone has no... But there are many mountains, they are increasing. You know, at Benares there is a stone? Tila-bandhesvara. (?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That increases. If you go, see today, and go ten years after, you'll see—take the measurement—it has increased.

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Satsvarūpa: ...by reading the books, he'd understood that we should become completely desireless. So he wanted more explanation. And in the car coming out Śrīla Prabhupāda just explained that our desire can't go away because that's the symptom of the living entity. We have to have some desire. But real desirelessness means that you have no more material desire. Material desire: someone is always desiring from God, "Give me this, give me this." But when we become purified, then our desire is that "Kṛṣṇa, please take me. Please take me. Whatever service I can render, please accept it." But when one has not enough information, then he desires... His idea of desirelessness is to become like a dead stone. Simply to... Because desire causes suffering and it's bad, material desire, therefore let me simply stop it and become... That will be desireless. But that is not, that state is not possible because our symptom of life is to have desire. So we answer him in this way, to become purified and simply serve Kṛṣṇa all the time. Not that we stop any activities. Prabhupāda was saying he is working day and night. So you cannot become absorbed in nothing. In order to become purely desireless, you have to have some activity that will always... There is a place, there is a plane of spiritual desire, spiritual activity. So there's... (pause)

Prabhupāda: What do you have to say about this? Do you understand, desireless and desireful?

Satsvarūpa: People some... Pseudo transcendentalists, they sometimes criticize us like that. They say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, you're just too active." They're think that we're fruitive, always running around, always trying to sell books, always very active. That's because they don't understand that desirelessness. They talk like that, and then they'll smoke a cigarette the next moment as they criticize us. They say, "You should not have to do anything if you're transcendental. Why do you have to work so hard?" And then they'll show that they have some very gross desire. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they see that this, their conception of Kṛṣṇa, there is mother, there is father, there is friend—"So what is this? Here also we see the mother, father, friend. So how they become free?" They cannot understand. Their brain is so poor they cannot understand. Therefore they: "It is also māyā. To think of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, having father, mother, friends, playing pastimes, this is also māyā." Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. They cannot conceive that in the spiritual world exactly the same things there are, but the position is different. That is absolute, without any designation.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: They base many of their conclusions on finding of fossils, old remains.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Fossils, impressions of animals' bodies in the stone that are left there thousands of years. They gather all these... That's what Darwin's work mostly was. He would sail around the world and collect all these fossils, and make conclusions and write books.

Prabhupāda: But where they will get fossils of old intelligent men?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they say that they've found just skulls of very primitive men...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot find because according to Vedic culture, the body's burned into ashes. Where you'll get the bones and fossils?

Bali Mardana: You only come up with the primitive ones who are not civilized.

Prabhupāda: We understand from the writings, not from the fossils and bones. The bones and fossils are already finished, but they kept their writing.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because...

Dr. Patel: All-down-knowing, all-down-knowing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So He's not a stone. Just like some philosopher says there was a chunk and creation came from that. So here Bhāgavata says, "No. The origin of creation, He's a person—abhijñaḥ. And He knows everything, directly and indirectly." Directly, I know this is my body, but indirectly, I do not know what is going on in this body. Therefore we go to physician that: "Please tell me what is the ailments in my body." So I do not know what is the cause. But the original Absolute Truth, He knows everything, directly and indirectly. Therefore He is abhijñaḥ. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). In this way, concludes: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi.

Dr. Patel: Dhīmahi. Yes. Krishna Shankara Shastri has written hundred pages on this and explained it. And I got lost in it, on this one single śloka. He has, about the last dhīmahi, is also a part of Gāyatrī-mantra.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: Ten rupees Kg. For one rupee (indistinct) first-class wheat.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that, "We have done so much." What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.

Devotee: With the machines they're mixing stones in the rice.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: With machine help, they're mixing stone in the rice.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that you cannot get. Oh, you have done so much. But India is not meant for machine. These rascals, they do not know. India is, India's culture is plain living, high thinking. You require some food. Produce food, and take it, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they'll not accept, "Oh, this is primitive. Nowadays we have got... We must have the motor car, motor tire."

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: To carry his order. That is purification. If you create your own atmosphere, then you become impure. If you simply carry out the order of your spiritual master, then you will be benefited. If you do your own business, that is not good. You can not do anything which is not ordered by your spiritual master. Of course, everyone should have sense. It is not that we are dull, stone. Unless it is moved, it cannot... You have got moving power. But the basic issue should be to carry out the orders of his spiritual master. That is your president. Otherwise you are not.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, mām ekam.

Indian man (4): You have come to our narrow path now. When people divide (indistinct). Because those days were different. When people were (indistinct) on stones.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I cannot... A chaste woman, you cannot divide her. She must stick to one husband.

Indian man (4): No, in his time, people were Vaiṣṇavas...

Prabhupāda: You cannot, she cannot say, "I can accept as many husband as required." That is not good.

Indian man (4): Two hundred years before. Two hundred years before. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...as you worship Durgā, then you have to sacrifice goat.

Indian man (4): Ah?

Prabhupāda: As soon as you worship Durgā...

Indian man (4): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Whatever.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the sample of yogi. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And a yogi says that "Go to the forest." Eh? The rājarṣis are in the forest?

Dr. Patel: This is a mūḍha. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...garland, this girl. Garland just like beads.

Satsvarūpa: Make a garland out of stone?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not stone.

Satsvarūpa: Shells.

Prabhupāda: They are conch shells, small conchshells. They are called gunja, gunja. They are called gunja? (break)

Guest (4) (Indian man): ...ahaṁ yogī nikita.(?) So what is that? Can you give me some light on that?

Prabhupāda: Karma-yogī means one who does everything for Kṛṣṇa. He's karma-yogī.

Guest (1): One who does everything for...?

Prabhupāda: For Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He was chanting the holy name of Rāma.

Indian man (4): He was chanting Rāma, Rāma, Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani, iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahma ity abhidhīyate. So so long one chants Rāma Kṛṣṇa, who can kill him? Yes. That is the point. (break) When he constructed bridge on the ocean, the stones were floating. Where is the law of gravitation go on? So He can do that. He withdrew the law of gravitation. (break) ...position of the demons. Although he is not learned, he will give instruction.

Mahāṁsa: (break) ...who is learned. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...business, that without being learned in the subject matter he wants to give instruction. (break)

Girirāja: "Sir, let us now make arrangements to kill all children who were born within the last ten days in towns, countries, villages and pasturing grounds." (break)

Prabhupāda: On this side there is government sign, "No dogs," "No dogs." Dogs are not allowed.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam. That is said, avidhi-pūrvakam, "Not in order."

ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktā

yajanti śraddhānvitāḥ

te 'pi mām eva kaunteya

yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam

That is not vidhi. Vidhi is here. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. The first word is Viṣṇu, of Viṣṇu, not of any other. So these are the demonstration of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ (SB 7.5.23). This is arcanā. Just like we perform in the morning, in the evening, at noon, arcā-vigraha. Viṣṇu, arcayam, Viṣṇu. It is not idol worship. Arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ. If one thinks the arcā-mūrti, the worshipable Deity in the temple, as stone or as wood, arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ guruṣu nara-matiḥ... To accept guru, in the paramparā system... All the gurus in the paramparā system... Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). Nara-matiḥ, consider him as ordinary human being... In this way there is a list. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. A Vaiṣṇava, a devotee: "He is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is American Vaiṣṇava. He is śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. When one is Vaiṣṇava, there should be no distinction by the caste. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. In this way there is a list that should be avoided. So these things required. If actually... The same thing, that if a girl is married to the husband, she must be always engaged in the service of the husband. That will be appreciated. If she says, "Sir, now we are married. You go home and I remain at home," there will be no prayojana-siddhi.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody likes to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Nobody is prepared to that. "If Kṛṣṇa satisfies my whims, then I accept Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. That is not bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you have to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. (break) ...in devotional service. Without devotional service, all activities, they are false, simply just like jumping like the monkey. What is the value? The monkey is always busy, but his business has no value. His business has no value. Therefore as soon as one monkey..., "Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is always busy. So to become busy like a monkey has no value. To busy, to become busy as a devotee, that has value. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Māyāvādī philosophy is that "This business is useless, so stop it altogether." No. That is negation. If you stop... Just like a child, if you stop playing mischief, always doing, then he will be mad, psychologically. You must give him some engagement, better engagement, so that he will not commit any more mischief. So bhakti is a service, activity. If he is not engaged in activity, then he will become again a rascal. Because we are living entities. We are not dead stone. That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). Engage, hṛṣīka means the senses. The senses must be engaged. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ. Now the senses are engaged for my sense gratification. So it should be purified, no more sense gratification. But the senses must have engagement. And how? That is in the service of the Lord. That is real activity. So bhakti is not that it is simply negation. There must be positive action. That is bhakti.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "He hit the stone ground and his limbs were smashed. His body became visible to all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. When the gopīs..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the performances of all austerities. One can get the result of all austerities simply by serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Girirāja: "...made charities and performed many welfare activities for the public, such as growing banyan trees and excavating wells. As a result of these pious activities, we have got back our child." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...very nice building. And one day death will come, "Oh, what is this?" Finish now. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). And as soon as death comes, all this construction becomes ah, finished. You have to begin another chapter, either as human being or as bird or cats and dogs or anything. That is another thing. But they do not know this. They are thinking that "This construction work will save me."

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is rogues. So what is the value of that laws? The legislative assembly means a set of rogues, and if they legislate something, what is the value of that? (break) Caught like that, yes. Because people are becoming degraded, so they elected such degraded everything. (break) Shameless. The whole nation is asking that "You resign." "No." Such shameless. (break) ...that somebody was in the room, and the outsider says, "Who is in the room?" "No, no! I am not stealing!" (laughter) "No, no, I am not stealing."

Girirāja: There's a saying that when you throw a stone in a pack of dogs, the one who is hit will scream. (break)

Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written. (break) ...one has passed stool, during daytime, due to the sunshine, the upper side is dry. So if somebody says, "This side is better than the other side. The moist side is not so good. The dry side is good." (break) ...nation, you'll find (indistinct) gentlemen, but they do not know that these things are criminals. They think it is ordinary thing, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, and this stage is attained very easily by the pure devotee. In that stage of existence, the idea of becoming one with the Supreme Brahman and annihilating one's individuality becomes hellish, and the idea of attaining the heavenly kingdom becomes phantasmagoria, and the senses are like broken serpents' teeth. As there is no fear of a serpent with broken teeth, so there is no fear from the senses when they are automatically controlled. The world is miserable for the materially infected person, but for a devotee the entire world is as good as Vaikuṇṭha, or the spiritual sky. The highest personality in this material universe is no more significant than an ant for a devotee. Such a stage can be achieved by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, who preached pure devotional service in this age.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of... That is explained in the..., that Bhāgavata, Brahma-sūtra, who is God, first of all. Who is God?

O'Grady: Who told God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, "Who is God?" Then we shall ask, "Who told God?" (chuckles) That God... That is the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now we should enquire about God, what is God, who is God." Unless you know who is God, how can you raise the question, "Who instructed God?" If you do not know God, then the question does not arise, "Who instructed God?" Is it not? Yes. So therefore God is explained in the Brahma-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "God is He from everything comes, emanates." That is God. That God is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "The Supreme Being from whom everything emanates." Now, what is that Supreme Being? What is the nature of the Supreme Being? It is a dead stone or a living being? That is also explained. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). "That God is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly." Unless He is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly, He is not God. So then the same question comes, as you said, that "Who taught God?"

O'Grady: Yes, that's the man I want to meet.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: We can go down. We can go around.

Bhagavān: The stones seem very rough. Maybe we go back this way.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Yogeśvara: There are stones on the ground, too.

Bhagavān: A little material benefit, that increase, they take to be spiritual.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gymnastic. Just like a man, by bodily exercise, he becomes a little strong. His digestive function becomes very easy, he can eat more. He can enjoy more sex life. These benefits they want. And if you promise all these benefits, they become attracted. And they cannot understand, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, we do not accept anymore material body, but go to back to home, back to... These things they cannot understand.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: So everyone in the material world is caught up with the intelligence generated by the brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, they are thinking that this is all. A group of men is coming, and they are exploiting the resources, material world. Just like this building. It is nothing but exploiting the resources. Making brick from the earth or stone or iron. And they pile up. Just like the children goes to the beach, they pile up the sand, and they imagine that somebody is making big palace, somebody is...

Dhanañjaya: Big castle.

Prabhupāda: Big castle. And at a time they left. In the Roman, the... Formerly, the Romans, they also came. They also constructed big, big buildings. Now they are rotting, and another generation, they also are creating the same thing. But exactly like the children, after playing, they are going. Nobody knows where they have gone. Similarly, these rascals, they are coming. They have got the human intelligence. Simply spoiling that intelligence in amassing the external resources of material nature, and they leave the platform, and again go away and take the birth of some other form of life. Everything forgotten just like dream. This is going on. They cannot understand it has no value.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: So these buildings are mere symbols of their ignorance.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They have got some intelligence. They are utilizing for piling up these stones and bricks. That's all. This is their intelligence, how to pile up nicely stones and bricks. Crane. The same thing. The real business is to pile up some stones and bricks, that's all. They are making research, engineering. The real business is how to pile up stones and bricks. That's all. The same business as the children pile up some sand and imagine "This is park, this is this, this is that."

Dhanañjaya: Didn't Rāvaṇa want to pile up stones and bricks, too, to reach the heavenly planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, he was a materialist. That is the business of the materialist. What is this? Aerodrome? No.

Dhanañjaya: No, this is a restaurant.

Prabhupāda: They can eat down. (laughter) These rascals are thinking eating on this top, this is their advancement of civilization. And waste energy. The human energy is so valuable that one can understand his real life, self-realization—that they forget. They wasting the energy for making a restaurant on the sky. They think it is advancement.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What is that dominate? One kick will finish everything. That is illusion. They are thinking, "We are going to dominate," but they are dominated always. Therefore, because they have no intelligence, they cannot understand. One earthquake can finish all this. All go down immediately. So what is that dominate? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ kar... (BG 3.27). The prakṛti, nature, is giving chance just like father and mother give chance that the children pile up stone and sand. "Let them play." Similarly prakṛti, mother prakṛti, nature, giving all this, "Let this rascal play like that. What can be done?" He does not know that "After this piling of stones and bricks, I will have to leave this place. And I do not know where I am going." So less intelligence. And they do not know what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body," but this body will be finished. That's all. "I was zero. I assumed some body. Now again I shall become zero." That's all. Śūnyavādī. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. It is covered? (break) ...viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā, some utopian hope of becoming happy. This is called durāśayā.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, what you have done? You are simply talking. What you have done? There are so many starving people all over the world. What you have done? "Starving people." I have seen. They cannot give starving people. Just like we went to Russia. So we wanted rice. There is no rice. There was no good rice. We wanted fruit. There was no fruit. So what you have done? I am starving for fruit and rice. You cannot supply me. That is practical. I have seen it. They will offer, "Take this beef instead of fruit." Then I will starve. So what he has done for me? I am starving. I cannot take beef. I want rice, but you cannot supply me. That I have seen. One Madrasi gentleman was bringing rice for me. It could not be purchased in the market. There is no fruit. So if I want fruit and rice and if you give me beef, it is as good as if I want bread, if you give me stone. So where is the capacity to satisfy the starving? I am starving for rice. You cannot give me. Why do you propose like that, that you can satisfy the starving man. You cannot do that. You are talking nonsense. Can you satisfy everyone? Somebody is starving for knowledge. So how you can... This bluff will not satisfy him. So where is the question of starving, satisfying the starving? It is not possible. Unless he is satisfied, nobody can satisfy others. That satisfaction is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I am fully satisfied. I don't want." Where is the satisfaction? You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. In Russia, there are so many unsatisfied people, so many millions. Where they are satisfied? If you think that "You must eat what I give you," that is not my satisfaction. That is your satisfaction. So where is the question of satisfying the starving? How it is possible? You cannot force me to do something and say, "Be satisfied." That is not possible. If you satisfy me as I want, then you can satisfy me.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: I would say "If he has no brain, what is the use of going to a meeting?" (laughter) Our only... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The men are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. What they will do? Meeting of the dogs, hogs, camels and asses will be any beneficial to the society? We are very pessimistic, and our conclusion, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is dogs, hogs, camels, asses, that's all. No brain, animal. Animal has got brain: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life. So these people, they have got brain for that purposes only. That is animal life. Actually, they do not know what is the aim of life, why people should be educated, why human society should be organized. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Enamored by these big, big buildings. That's all. "Oh, they are so advanced." And naturally, the common man comes to the European or American city, he says, "Oh, Americans are very rich." "Rich" means they have piled up stones and bricks, that's all. This is their richness. What is there in the richness here? But people are common men. They think that this piling of bricks and stone is like real civilization. What do you think? Is that real civilization?

Yogeśvara: No.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Piling of bricks and stones? Heaps of stones and bricks? That is emblem of civilization? They have seen. In Rome they have seen. They also piled like that. Now they have gone. Where they have gone? Why they left? Why they were obliged to leave? That nobody is questioning. And if he has got a different body, if he is living in that house as cats and dogs and rats and ants, then what benefit he has derived? There is possibility. If you have got an attraction for the body, for your house, but you are not going to get a human body, then you'll have to take your birth in that place, as tree, as plant, as live as rat or cat or ant. You have to live. Nature will give you advantage. But you must get the body according to your karma. That you cannot violate. Where is this science discussed? As soon as we shall speak gentleman like them, they will say, "I have got meeting."

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: One only, less than minority. (laughter) The minority, majority, these are material conception. And spiritual is how much you are giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That is considered. That is to be taken into consideration. (pause) Kṛṣṇa says Himself, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of millions and millions of people, one may understand Me." So if I have turned so many people to understand Kṛṣṇa, so that is service. At least, they are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...in winter in December, when I was going to the park, Regents Park, all the waters, frozen like stone, and with this stick, I was pushing, (makes sound-imitation:) "Tung, tung," like that. But I marked it that underneath the tree, there was no frozening. The water was there. Just like here is a tree. Just below the tree, there was water. And all around, frozen. The swans were walking on the... But on that place, they were floating. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause)

Yogeśvara: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists say that the life, life first came from the water. They say that life first came from water. In the beginning, there were one-celled creatures that were formed from chemicals in the water.

Prabhupāda: That we also say, pralaya-payodhi-jale **. Because the whole planet was submerged in water, so there was life in water, aquatics, fishes. That is not a very new thing. We know it.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away. And they'll never attack any inmates of the āśrama. He'll say, āmāra ajni hana isko bolo naya (?): "They are my men; don't harm them." Yes. Tigers can be trained up. Just like dog. They are a dog species. More ferocious, that's all. More ferocious dog. That's all. So you can train them. I have seen in the World Fair. One man has trained... I think most of you have seen. One tiger and one lion. And he was playing with that tiger, lion, just like one plays with dog. They can be trained up. They can understand also that "This man loves me. He gives me food. He's my friend." They also appreciate. Just like this picture, you have seen, Haridāsa Ṭhākura? The big snake is going. The snake also knows that "He's saintly person. He may not be disturbed. Let me go away." And from reason also, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart. He's dictating. So Kṛṣṇa can dictate to the animals, to the serpent, to the man, everyone. Such nice foodstuff. And mostly they are made of milk. These people, they do not know. They kill the cows and throw the milk away to the hogs. And they are proud of their civilization. Like jackals and vultures. Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will transform these uncivilized men to real civilization. Their civilization is now compact in masonry work, collecting stones and bricks and piling them. This much, their civilization. Actually, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). The explanation I gave this morning. They do not know what is ātma-tattvam. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. The external feature, material nature, they're interested. These scientists, these philosophers, the man, they're simply interested in the external features. Internally, what is important, they do not know.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: You have quoted a great English Poet who says that "Man has created the city..."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Paramahaṁsa: "...and God has created the country."

Prabhupāda: This is the statement of Mr. Cowper. Man has created nothing. Suppose this building, man has created. But wherefrom the ingredient comes. Has man created? This stone, man has created? Eh? What do you think? Is this stone, creation of man?

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: But they will say that they made the garden.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just like suppose if I do something here in Paris, and if you say, "Sir, as soon as your visa is finished, you'll be kicked out," shall I be interested to create anything? That is intelligence, that "I will be kicked out after two months. Why shall I construct such a big scheme?" That is intelligence. So these rascals know that he'll be kicked out. Still, he works day and night for collecting bricks and stones and he becomes a big man. Mean a foolish rascal, he is considered a big man. Therefore śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Paramahaṁsa: People argue that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore we must enjoy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is his intelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: One old Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Decoration of the dead body."

Satsvarūpa: They might ask why we decorate the Deity if we say that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Why do we decorate the, a stone Deity?

Prabhupāda: Because it is not dead; it is living. They can put forward this argument. But that you do not know, that we are not decorating... We are, we are decorating the real body. Now what will be your question next?

Satsvarūpa: You say it's a real body, but it appears to be stone.

Prabhupāda: Why stone? Stone is also God's body. You don't know that? Do you know it or not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, in the Universal Form.

Prabhupāda: No. Universal Form... Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Bhūmi means the earth. "That is My body."

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: But there are no... They would say that there are no symptoms of life in the Deity.

Prabhupāda: No, there is life, but you have no eyes to see. There is life. He's the supreme life. Only premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38), one who is devotee, he can see. Otherwise, are we fools, rascals, that we are worshiping a dead body? Do you mean to say after reading so many books, we are worshiping stone? You have no eyes. You have to create that eyes to see that "Here is personally Kṛṣṇa present, arcāvatāra."

Bhagavān: They can't even see that in an animal other than human there's soul. So how can they understand the Deity?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: They can't...

Prabhupāda: So therefore they have to become our student and become our disciple to understand this science. Otherwise, why there is propaganda if we remain the same fool and rascal? That, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that the stone is also, that is virāḍ-rūpa. That is also Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We are not talking of religions. We are talking of science.

Bhagavān: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So don't bring in any religion. A type of religion is made, "Believe something blindly." So that is not our concern. We are talking of the science. If I say that stone is also Kṛṣṇa, is not that the science?

Bhagavān: It's the science of how God's energies are working.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if I say heat is also fire. Is there any wrong?

Bhagavān: No.

Prabhupāda: Is there any wrong?

Devotees: No.

Prabhupāda: Heat is also fire. But at the same time, heat is not fire. What is the difficulty to understand? If I say heat is also fire, but it is not fire, where is the wrong?

Devotee: Heat comes from the fire.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: Heat comes from the fire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the fire quality is there. Heat is the quality of the fire. Just like I taste sugar. The sweetness is also sugar. And the form is also sugar.

Yogeśvara: Well, they would say, "If stone is also Kṛṣṇa, then why aren't we worshiping all stone?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Then why don't we worship all... Here is also some stone. Why don't we worship this?

Prabhupāda: You worship. Because you are rascal, you worship.

Yogeśvara: No, they...

Prabhupāda: We, we worship Kṛṣṇa in His form, but you are formless. You worship that stone. When we make the form of Kṛṣṇa in stone, then we worship, not that any stone. Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, that does not mean I have to worship the dog. That you worship. Because you are impersonalist, you worship dog. And you are doing that. In the morning, you take a dog and worship it. That is your business. Our business is to worship the form of Kṛṣṇa. That is the, required.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is that like Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayer when he saw Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva and he said, "I am not afraid of Your ferocious form, but I am afraid of this material world of saṁsāra."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He has given nice reference. A devotee, although sees God in His lion feature, and very ferocious, he knows He is God. "He's my Lord." But this so-called advancement of material civilization is the greatest enemy. That is not... Material civilization is very, very backward position. Māyā-mohita. He'll be captivated by the so-called stones and bricks, and he'll forget God. That is the disease of the western world. They are very much fond of these stones and bricks, and therefore they have no knowledge about God. This electricity, the electrons, the radio, this, everything machine and stones. They have got, forgotten God. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. The more you materially advance, you forget God. So human life is meant for reviving our relationship with God, but if you forget God, then what kind of civilization it is? You are forgetting your real business.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: It belongs to the man who created it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: It belongs to the man who created it and is conscious of its origin.

Prabhupāda: Who created? Who created? You created this stones and sand?

Paramahaṁsa: Nature.

Prabhupāda: Then what is nature?

Satsvarūpa: The life force working behind...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Satsvarūpa: They'd say the life force is working...

Prabhupāda: Therefore nature is... Behind the nature, there is Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa... (BG 9.10).

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: It's also said that if you follow perfectly the rules and regulations, but don't develop love for Kṛṣṇa, then you have wasted your time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but if you follow the rules and regulations, automatically, you'll love Kṛṣṇa. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the stepping-stones. The devotional service develops by association. So if the associates are pure devotees, anyone who will come to that association will become devotee. (break) ...just like a young man and young woman. The devotion is there, love is there, but in the beginning, they should mix, or some presentation should be given, some, something eatable should be accepted, should be given. In this way, when the association is thick and thin, the love is there. The love is already there. It has to awakened by a certain process. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. These are six types of loving principles, that you give, if you want to love somebody, you give something. And whatever he or she offers, you take from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You give him something to eat, and whatever he or she gives, you eat. Bhuṅkte bhojayate ca. And guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And you try to understand his heart, and your heart be disclosed to him or her. If you follow these principles, automatically the loving propensity will awaken. It is already there. It is not artificial. It has simply to be awakened by a certain process.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: No, nothing.

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Their aim of life is God realization, but they do not know that. And why they do not know that? Bahir-artha-māninaḥ: "They are thinking by these external features of the material nature they will be happy." That is very quite visible in the western countries. They are thinking that by constructing big, big, high skyscraper building their civilization is advancing, or machine, or technology. But they do not know this is not the aim of life. Real aim of life—to understand God. And na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means something, utopian hope, which will be never fulfilled. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Piling up simply bricks and stone, they are thinking, "In this way we shall be happy." That is durāśayā. That is never to be fulfilled. And then how this society is being led? Andha. The leader is a blind man. The so-called scientists, technologists, philosophers, others, they do not know what is the aim of life. He is a blind man, and he is trying to lead other blind men. This is the position. So if a blind man tries to lead other blind men, what benefit they will get?

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa: They say, "Well, that's the way you think in the East. It is very interesting."

Prabhupāda: And why don't you think? That means you are fool. You cannot think, just like dog cannot think. So you are equal to dog. Tell them like that. It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of understanding. In the East also there are many rascals, and in the West there are many intelligent. If it is the East and West question, how the Western boys and girls taking this philosophy? It is not the East and West. It is the question of the rascal and intelligent. One who is intelligent, either he is East and West, he can understand. And one is a rascal, either he is East and West, he cannot understand. This is the real problem. Just like this cemetery. What is the use of keeping this cemetery, occupying unnecessarily so much land? And they are worshiping. They will not go to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but they will worship stone, bhūtejya, offer flower, kneel down. And where the man has gone, he does not know. Bhūtejya. And we saw in the Geneva. A big plot of land is occupied.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: They are enjoying. Sleeping is enjoying.

Professor Durckheim: This is a very ugly village here.

Prabhupāda: Why? It is very clean.

Professor Durckheim: Nothing but stone. No gardens, no flowers. Usually it is different.

Prabhupāda: In other words, you mean to say that "the village for the stone-hearted."

Professor Durckheim: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: The village is for the stone-hearted. Nothing but stones.

Professor Durckheim: Once when I was in Paris and walking the streets and nothing but stone and stone and iron and nothing alive, I suddenly heard a voice, coming from beneath, as if there were a big, big one. I heard the voice, if you like, of God and saying, "Well, isn't there not a little spot there where I could manifest myself?" The sadness of God. I heard the voice, "This is the sadness of God." Was very impressive to me. Really a real voice in myself. Because a town like this has no place, no channel, for His voice to come through.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Muncing: With respect, sir, I notice you wear a watch. This must be obviously a product of science, and this is what it's about. But you are stressing time and again in your writings the need to concentrate on the laws that you set out in order to achieve some standing in the future, in the life hereafter. Isn't this at the risk of neglecting the people who are sharing this life with us here and now?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of neglecting. Just like formerly there was no watch, but still they used to keep time by the movement of the sun on a dial, just making some marks on the stone. Do you know this?

Guests: Yes, yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their work was going on. Their work was not suffering for want of this watch.

Dr. Muncing: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch. What is that active principle? Where is that science? That is my proposition.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Sand fleas.

Prabhupāda: No. They're eating this.

Jayatīrtha: Garbage.

Bali Mardana: This?

Rāmeśvara: Those are the stones.

Prabhupāda: They can eat stone and digest.

Bali Mardana: They can eat the sand.

Prabhupāda: Sand?

Bali Mardana: The sand is made of little stones.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not sand, not sand.

Bali Mardana: Pebbles.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Bali Mardana: Snails.

Umāpati: Shells. No, birds eat stones too.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. They eat that.

Jayatīrtha: No, I don't know. They get nutrition from the stones?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. You said they have a special power to digest.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Proof is under investigation. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming, there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. You know that? Vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. Sometimes we see some heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country? We have seen it. From the rice, heaps of rice, one scorpion, small scorpion, is coming. The fact is that the parent of the scorpion, they put their eggs within the rice and, being fermented, the scorpion comes out, not that from rice the scorpion is coming out. Therefore it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. So "Life is coming from matter"—this is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Life cannot come from matter. Besides that... Just like when there is life, living entity, the body grows, body changes or grows, as you say. But if the child is dead or come out dead, then the body does not grow. Then matter is growing on life. Why, a dead child born, it does not grow? What is the reason? What is your scientists' reason?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.

Tripurāri: But we have no attraction for Kṛṣṇa. You are attracting us to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Actually Kṛṣṇa is attracting. One, what is called, touchstone, no? Magnetic stone?

Tripurāri: Yes, magnet.

Prabhupāda: So background, magnetic stone, one iron, and then another iron, another iron. It is all attracted.

Devotee (5): We are becoming happy by distributing your books.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. It is Kṛṣṇa's book. You have got that cake? Give them.

Devotee (5): I was going to say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was talking, and I gave a family a big..., a husband and a wife, a big Kṛṣṇa book. The husband took the Kṛṣṇa book. The wife was indifferent. A year later the wife read the Kṛṣṇa book and left her husband and joined the temple, just from reading the one book. And I was very enlivened by this. When you can see the results like that, you become enlivened.

Tripurāri: Just by distributing your books we can become self-realized.

Prabhupāda: You are already self-realized. Otherwise how you can push on the books? You love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are taking so much labor for pushing on. And that is self-realization. If anyone tries to establish that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, that is self-realization.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bhāratavarṣa, this planet, nine varṣas: Bhārata-varṣa, Ketumāla-varṣa, Ilāvṛta-varṣa... the whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...ages, Śrīla Prabhupāda, did the people, in order to get valuable minerals and gold and things like that, did they mine underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea-pearls, valuable stones from the hills.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic, no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.

Brahmānanda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?

Prabhupāda: No, pure.

Brahmānanda: It is pure.

Prabhupāda: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati lakṣa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Kṛṣṇa's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the richest. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say it is just a proof of nature, not a proof of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nature is instrumental, just like jail is instrument. But the proprietor of the jail, conductor of the jail, is government. Jail is not acting independently. By the government's direction. Similarly, the nature is working by the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated. Nature is not independent. Just like the nature is that this lump of matter will lie down here, but if God desires, it can fly on the sky. That is God's will. Nature is not independent. Then it would have remained here. Just like Lord Rāmacandra collected stones, and it was floating. According to law of gravitation, how it can float?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say that's just a story.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: They say that's...

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The planets are floating.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. How these planets are floating? That is also story? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Brahmānanda: One question, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Brahmānanda: If the planets, they have always been floating, but the stones of Lord Rāmacandra has put in the ocean, they are still not... Where are they?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: The stones that Rāmacandra put, they are not still floating.

Prabhupāda: Floating, that is Rāmacandra's desire.

Pañcadraviḍa: What happenned to the stones?

Prabhupāda: That Rāmacandra knows. You go there. (break)

Tripurāri: "...enjoyment comes from the fact that he thinks he's saving the world. He's out preaching. Your enjoyment is simply subtle sense gratification."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tripurāri: They say that our enjoyment is subtle sense gratification. We feel we're saving the world. Therefore we get some pleasure from that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you say sense gratification, senses are there, and senses want satisfaction, but you can know the proper way of satisfaction. That we are teaching. We do not say that "Make your senses blunt." But you enjoy properly. That is stated, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattva hy asmad brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). You are wanting sense gratification, but it is being checked up on account of your diseased condition of life. Therefore you purify yourself. Then you enjoy senses perpetually. This is the injunction. We are not stopping sense gratification. But you are trying to gratify senses in your diseased condition. Just like if you are feverish, you cannot enjoy to eat a rasagullā. It will be not tasteful. So cure yourself and enjoy rasagullā. That is our program.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheating business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. Even something which is just... How Śyāmasundara has become victim. This rascal has given him some stone, and it is very valuable and he's jumping. (indistinct) ...has taken ten lakhs of (indistinct). Pukka propaganda. (indistinct) ...he has taken victim. That's all. He's not in his sense, even now, that if he has given me real gem, why I am unable to sell it for the last three, four years? Such a foolish.

Devotee: He's saying that he has to create the market.

Prabhupāda: Good things, does it require...? That is propaganda. You have got some false thing, you have to make propaganda to prove it, that it is real.

Devotee: That is the proof it is false.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this man has taken money for... And he cannot supply even maintenance for his wife and girl. You have seen Mālatī?

Devotee: Yes Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Superstition. That is superstition.

Amogha: He gets in bad association, and then he begins to doubt a little bit, I think.

Prabhupāda: You do your duty, that's all. (pause) What is this? Stone or something?

Amogha: Part of the street I think. I think it's sandstone from the beach. (pause) Many politicians are afraid that Australia may be attacked by the Communists. Everyone is very much afraid of what could happen in the future, because the United States is becoming weaker.

Prabhupāda: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.

Amogha: They all seem to think that spiritual life is something to think about, something...

Prabhupāda: Not very important.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, Mahīrāvaṇa. And in that plan he was killed. (break) That is Indo-European civilization. The kings came from India, and he developed. Therefore it is called Indo-European civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: The scientists and the archaeologists are very amazed to find the structures, the buildings that they had in their civilization. They can't understand how they were built, such huge pillars and gigantic stones. They don't know how they were put into place.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the Jagannātha temple is also like that. They suggest that they manufacture, and then they surround with sand, then further manufacture. And when it is complete the sand is taken away. Otherwise how it is put into...? The sand is stacked just like this. The temple is being manufactured, and the sand is thrown all side, and when it is finished, the sand is taken away.

Devotee (1): The temple is manufactured in the sand?

Prabhupāda: No, as usual. Just like they dig well. They dig well. They begin immediately, and then you dig the earth, and the structure goes down. Then again, then again, like that. They were experts, they were experts, to construct... Labor is cheap. That time, practically there was no labor cost. At the present moment, on account of factories, the labor cost has increased. Otherwise the laborers, they were, they have no sufficient employment. So two annas, four annas. I was paying labor, four annas, say, in 1930s. Four annas. In Allahabad I was paying four annas. He would work whole day. In Bombay eight annas.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...inferior energy of God. Matter is not different from God. Find out, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Because everything is emanates from God. He is the father of everything.

Jesuit: God has created everything, yes. But not everything is spiritual.

Prabhupāda: That I already said, that God is..., everything is depending on God, but not everything is God.

Jesuit: No, true. So this, no matter what you do to it, it must remain matter.

Prabhupāda: This is matter, but when it is used for God, this is spirit.

Jesuit: Well, that's why I say it is figurative use.

Prabhupāda: The same example, just like...

Jesuit: It still remains wood.

Prabhupāda: ...the church is made of matter, wood and stone, but it is spirit, because here there is nothing other business than God. So the real thing is, matter means forgetfulness of God. Read that, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is superior energy, and the material energy, inferior energy. Just like in your body there are some inferior parts and some superior parts. But they are body, parts of the body. This part is superior part, and the rectum is inferior part. But that does not mean it does not form the constitution parts of your body. Otherwise how you become whole? Whole means comprising everything, superior, inferior. But comparatively, there is superior part, inferior part. So the material energy is also God's energy. And spiritual energy is also God's energy, but the spiritual energy is described here as superior energy, and the material energy is described here as inferior energy. But altogether, they are energies. So those who are expert devotees of God, they can utilize inferior energy for the purpose of superior energy. That is the proper utilization. Just like the same brick and stone is required for constructing an ordinary house, and the same brick and stone can be used for constructing a church.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Yes, I understand that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The material is not different. The ordinary house is constructed with the same bricks and stone, and church is also made of that. But why it is superior? Because it is specially, only meant for God's purpose. So anything utilized for God's purpose, it becomes spiritual. This is our philosophy.

Jesuit: Very good. You're kind, talking to me.

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to engage everything in God's service, to make it superior energy.

Jesuit: How do you see helping your fellow man?

Prabhupāda: We are helping. We are making them God conscious. Yes. That is best help. Instead of making them drunkard, woman-hunter, meat-eaters, we are making them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the best help.

Jesuit: And do they go out and make other disciples?

Śrutakīrti: He said do we go out and make other disciples.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept as disciple anyone who does not follow the rules and regulations.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: This, I think I remember from last year that the boys in New Zealand seemed to have a different interpretation of some of them, didn't they?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that may be, but we don't agree with that. We don't agree with that. Everyone has got the right to interpret in a different way, but we have to accept paramparā, the disciplic succession. Just like I have given one burfi. Everyone knows it is burfi, and if somebody interprets, "It is stone," so it will not be accepted. Everyone knows it is burfi, nice sweetmeat. Why shall I call it stone? But if somebody says, "I can interpret in this way," he can say, but it will not be accepted.

Amogha: Maybe you'd like to come to ārātrika. It's just starting, ārātrika ceremony.

Guest 2: I'd like to very much, but we'd better go home because...

Amogha: You've got something on? They have things that they have to do.

Guest 1: Later, at 8 o'clock, I've got a meeting, some people coming to my home. My wife's away having a holiday, and our youngest boy's come home, and I'm taking that chance to work long hours to get a lot of things done.

Prabhupāda: What is holiday?

Guest 1: For the school children, yes.

Amogha: Schools are not in session all over Australia.

Prabhupāda: This is winter holiday?

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gurukṛpa: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, that is your answer. What the scientists will say?

Gurukṛpa: Well, it came from a volcano in the earth.

Prabhupāda: It is stone. (so?) It is not separate piece. It is attached to a big...

Gurukṛpa: Big lava came, and now it's here. Actually, it's all false. It doesn't exist. It's just like a dream. We're just dreaming these things. But when you wake up and you're out of the dream, then you actually come to the Brahman. It's just false.

Prabhupāda: But when this chunk is thrown over your head, that is not false. If it is thrown over your head, then you protest, "No, no, don't do it. Don't do it."

Paramahaṁsa: We have not become so much realized that we have understood it's false completely yet. Only theoretically.

Prabhupāda: No, how it is false? When somebody takes one big chunk and wants to throw it upon you, why do you cry. "No, no, no don't do it! Don't do it!" At that time you do not say, "No, the chunk is false. I don't mind."

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Oh, chiku.

Indian man: Na, na, this is not chiku.

Devotee (1): This one right here. This big one.

Indian man: Oh, the big one. Yeah, that is.

Prabhupāda: It is well known, chiku. In Gujarat there is ample chiku. This stone is artificially brought here, I think.

Devotee (1): It looks natural. It looks like it was here all the time.

Prabhupāda: Maybe.

Devotee (1): (break) ...small trees in here or grass, we can walk in there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, which way?

Devotee (1): Oh, this way. We can walk this way. (break)

Śrutakīrti: It's an acknowledgement of the first director of this botanical garden. (break)

Devotee (1): ...poison, Prabhupāda. This one is poison. It's called aki (a key?) apple. I think, I don't know, but I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: Without tasting, you say poison? First of all taste. (laughter) If you die, then you say it is poison.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Well, when there is killing, it is not that the pious men... But mostly they were saved. The Pāṇḍavas were saved. The five brothers, they remained. Now the moon is sour. Grapes are sour? (laughter) The jackal jumped over to catch some grapes, and when he fell, "Eh, what is the use of grapes? It is sour." The jackal said. So this is... Now they say there is, that is not good for him. "Let us go to Venus. (laughter) Moon is sour." And why you spent so much money? (break) ...stone man has come. That is the museum.

Brahmānanda: Stone?

Prabhupāda: How from stone...

Kuruśreṣṭha: Anthropologists.

Prabhupāda: Modern stone does not produce. They have become modernized? (laughter) (break)

Kuruśreṣṭha: In Dvaraka, when Kṛṣṇa was here, they would have such parks?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Nice walkways?

Prabhupāda: Mmm. Better than this.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jagadīśa: Why? Because it's such a huge place and it's not in a very exclusive neighborhood. It's surrounded by a six foot high stone wall. It's on four acres of land. And in the room that...

Prabhupāda: Six million?

Jagadīśa: To rebuild it because of all the onyx, marble. There is $100,000 worth of gold leafing work throughout the house.

Brahmānanda: What was it used as?

Jagadīśa: It was the Fisher Mansion. Fisher, you know, "Body by Fisher." And the man was a little eccentric. It's a Moorish style.

Prabhupāda: Now it is not raining. We can go.

Brahmānanda: Yes, we can go. Stop here. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...price there are?

Jagadīśa: 350,000.

Prabhupāda: So it is very cheap.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jagadīśa: It is just south of...

Jayatīrtha: It has a big stone fence, though.

Jagadīśa: ...the wealthiest neighborhood. It's about six blocks away.

Brahmānanda: Is it a crime place?

Jagadīśa: No.

Jayatīrtha: In Detroit... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...also, there is threatening of life. Some brāhmaṇa boys who were living with us, so they were threatened, "You are living with these mlecchas. If you don't give up, then your life is in danger." So they have gone to Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Jayatīrtha: The Sastris.

Prabhupāda: Some brāhmaṇa boys, they came and joined.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, those boys. Oh. And the other brāhmaṇas threatened.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they threatened.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: It would seem to me that in the days that we live in, I would say that the wolf, the animal, wolf, has more peacefulness than man. The wolf does not encroach upon another's territory...

Prabhupāda: Then you can say a stone has got more peacefulness than man.

Lt. Mozee: In today's society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you keep a stone a stone. That's all right. Wolf may be qualified with peacefulness, but after all, it is animal. You cannot say because it is peaceful for the time being, therefore it is not animal. It is animal.

Lt. Mozee: Wouldn't that sort of peace be a precursor to a return to religion? Must we not first have peace?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the difficulty. We do not know the meaning of religion. At the present moment the human society does not know what is the meaning of religion. The meaning of religion is to abide by the laws of God, just like a good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state, of the government. Because we have no understanding of God, therefore we do not know what is the laws of God, and therefore we do not know what is religion. That is the present status of the human society. They are forgetting religion. They take religion as a kind of faith. Faith may be blind faith. Faith is not the real description of religion. Religion means the laws which is given by God, and anyone who follows the laws, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or Muslim. If he follows the laws of God, then he is religious.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Actually they are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, he finds, (laughter) like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr. Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not believe this Darwin's theory. (break) ...study one after another, chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For any single man it is not possible.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Woman: I have just one more question, and that is also from an outsider's point of view. It appears to me that one of the most difficult aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for someone to accept who's been brought up outside of that point of view is the Deities and the idea that they represent Kṛṣṇa. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, because you are not trained up to see Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa kindly appears before you as you can see. You can see wood, stone. You cannot see what is spirit. Even you don't see yourself. You are thinking, "I am this body." But you are spirit soul. You are seeing your father and mother daily, and when the father or mother dies, you cry. Why you are crying? "Now my father has gone." Where is your father gone? He is lying here. Why do you say he is gone? What is that thing which is gone? Why you say, "My father is gone," although lying on the bed? You have seen daily your father. Now you say, "My father is gone." So... But he is lying on the bed. So who has gone? What is your answer?

Woman: Where is God?

Jayatīrtha: Who has gone? If you see your dead father and you say that he is passed away, what has passed away?

Prabhupāda: Who is that father?

Woman: Only this material body is gone.

Prabhupāda: Material body is there, lying on the bed.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot see the spirit, and God is Supreme Spirit. Therefore, to show kindness upon you, He has appeared just like wood and stone so that you can see.

Woman: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: He is everything. He is spirit and matter, everything. But you cannot see Him as spiritual identity. Therefore He has appeared in material form so that you can see. This is Deity. He is God, but you cannot see Him in His original spiritual form at the present moment. Therefore, out of His unbounded mercy, He has appeared before you just like made of wood and stone so that you can see.

Woman: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you are coming daily in our meeting?

Sandy Nixon: Not daily, but I'll come.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. This gentleman...?

Devotee: This is my father.

Father: Your Grace...

Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. (chuckles)

Devotee: And my mother.

Mother: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: But the scientists are saying, though, that the nearest star to our... You know, they consider the sun a star. And that the nearest star to ours is four light years away. Which means that it's... They do not believe that there's life in this entire solar system, in the planets nearest us, the moon, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Neptune, Jupiter. They assume it's either too cold...

Prabhupāda: No, we say in the sun there is life. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā science to the sun-god." So? Sun-god is dead stone, and Kṛṣṇa spoke to him?

Bahulāśva: They're very convinced, though, that they went to the moon, the scientists.

Devotee (3): I was going to ask you, Prabhupāda, is that the moon planet that we see, is that the same moon planet that's mentioned in the śāstras? The same planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes, same one. But the moon planet where they went, that is a dark planet. That is not moon planet.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Because they are, basically they are mistaken, how they can be happy? Basically they are mistaken. How you can be happy? They do not know what is happiness.

Paramahaṁsa: As a matter of fact, that's the same thing my father said. He says that "Because you believe in God, he says you don't have to fear death." He says, "But I have nothing to look forward to."

Prabhupāda: So that is also the position of a stone. So you better remain a stone, but I am life. The stone does not believe in anything and still it is happy. So you remain a stone. I am not stone; I am life.

Jayādvaita: There's a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta that without Lord Caitanya, there is no life. Acaitanya.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Acaitanya, yes.

Bahulāśva: So this dark planet, then, is closer?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bahulāśva: This dark Rahu planet, this is closer?

Prabhupāda: Rahu, yes. Rahu is between earth and sun. Moon is above sun.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is all right. But you cannot say, "This is the law: 'Everything will come down.' " These things are not coming down. So if there is... Not only this cloud, so many planets, hundreds and millions and millions of tons, how they are flying? How they are stayed on the sky? Everyone knows it.

Rādhāvallabha: Each planet has its own gravitational force.

Prabhupāda: That may be. I say it is condition. Under certain condition... When Rāmacandra throws stones for a bridging, the stones were floating. The stones did not go down.

Rādhāvallabha: Well, we can see in these inborn laws of nature all these things are going on. We don't see where there is need of some person behind it. These things are going on. Each planet has its own gravitational force; therefore they are balancing each other in the universe.

Prabhupāda: You do that. You float one ball if you are so confident.

Rādhāvallabha: I cannot do it, but nature is doing it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. You do not know who is doing. That is rascal. You are thinking everyone like you. That is nonsense. Ātmavat manyate jagat: Everyone is think that 'Other party is like me.' " (break) ...so many conditions are fulfilled, then some action takes place, five. There are mainly five causes. (break) ...God throws a stone, big stone, it floats because He is God. When you throw a stone, it will drown. When God makes one big planet floating, that is possible. You cannot do it.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Rather, they purchase also.

Jayādvaita: Yes. The scientists become conquered. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...scientists do not manufacture brain and give it to a stone, and he becomes a scientist. Why do they not do that? Manufacture. You have got so nice brain. Now manufacture another brain and put it on the stone, and he becomes that, what is called, Frankenstein? (laughter) Why they are not able to create another brain? What is the answer?

Jayatīrtha: They haven't been able to get sufficient research grants from the government.

Rāmeśvara: They need more money from the government to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say they will do it.

Prabhupāda: And then what is his position? Who has created his brain?

Rādhā-vallabha: This just came in the course of evolution.

Prabhupāda: So then why you are talking so much? It will come, everything. Why you are wasting time. Let it come everything by evolution.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: No, kamam vavarsa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4).

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes. Purport. "The basic principle of economic development is centered about land and cows. The necessity of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly King Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the cause of all varieties of production on the land. Regulated rains not only help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and the warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which, combined together, can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes. Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The King at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or an executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality and fraternity and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less than animal man. We are all creatures of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Lord Himself is the seed-giving father and material nature is the mother of all living beings in all shapes. Thus mother material nature has enough foodstuff both for animals and men, by the grace of the father almighty, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The human being is the elder brother of all living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than the animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the almighty father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."

Prabhupāda: Now men are killing their own children. Is it not? Even cats and dogs do not do this. Although they give birth at a time half a dozen children, still they are not anxious to kill them. (pause) So I am coming in one minute. Please sit down. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Why you are there?

Mr. Surface: I must leave. Thank you.

Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Some growing?

Nityānanda: Not very much. They are very young. We just planted them. In a few years we will get lots of fruit.

Prabhupāda: Here the land is mixed with some stones? No.

Nityānanda: I think they put this here, this gravel.

Prabhupāda: There is no mango tree here? No.

Nityānanda: No what?

Brāhmaṇada: Mango trees.

Nityānanda: We have some growing at the house.

Prabhupāda: Vegetables you are growing?

Nityānanda: Yes. We have a garden across the street. All these big trees are pecan trees. We have twenty. All this land across the road here that is cleared is ours, all the way up to the trees.

Prabhupāda: (reading sign?) "Cow protection and God consciousness. Visitors welcome." That's nice. So, which way we shall go now? Cow protection, they are surprised: "What is this nonsense, cow protection?" Huh? Do they say? "Cow is for eating, and you are protecting?" There are falls?(?)

Nityānanda: Falls?(?) No. This is our small garden.

Prabhupāda: Fruits and flowers. No, only fruits. What you are doing, flowers?

Nityānanda: This is okra.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: That will be done. To keep a prestigious position, they'll have building, servant, soldiers. Otherwise how they will fear? How they'll have respect?

Devotee (1): So the kṣatriya is the predominator of the land.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṣatriya is the owner of the land.

Devotee (1): And he can take the stones and men and build a big, nice...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: ...palace.

Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.

Morning Walk -- August 4, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then?

Satsvarūpa: Ambarīṣa? Is there another way we can go? It's wet.

Ambarīṣa: We can go back around in the road and then walk along that road over there. (Devotees chanting japa) (break)

Prabhupāda: Grass is coming out. Where is the chemical? How the grass is coming out from the stone side? Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...he will go?

Śrī Govinda: Around the island. Right around the island.

Prabhupāda: Very fast going, but where he will go? (break) ...tory?

Brahmānanda: Admiral Perry.

Satsvarūpa: He defeated the British in 1812.

Brahmānanda: Oh, he's an American.

Prabhupāda: Admiral Perry.

Brahmānanda: Admiral Perry. He defeated the British in the War of 1812.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...church tower?

Brahmānanda: None of our men have ever been here, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: We shall go that way? (break) ...piece of grass coming out. Another. (break) So where is Canada?

Mādhavānanda: Right there.

Prabhupāda: That side. (end)

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Sometimes they say, "When He wills it, then I will do it." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not willing, when He says that "You do this"?

Vāsughoṣa: They say, "When He makes my heart... When He puts it in my heart, and when He makes my heart open up to Him, then I will..."

Prabhupāda: And you have no heart. You have simply stone. (laughter) That is sung by some Vaiṣṇava, that "My heart is harder than the stone, because I know that even the stone melts by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but my heart does not melt. Therefore I think it is harder than the stone."

Indian man (2): Once somebody asked Prabhupāda Mahārāja in Calcutta that "When can you show me Kṛṣṇa?" Prabhupāda Mahārāja said that "Here is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot see because your eyes are stones. They are not the eyes. If you have got the eyes, you can see it here."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (2): "And these people have not come to worship stone. They have come to see Kṛṣṇa, and they are decorating, and they know that Kṛṣṇa is here." That at Calcutta, you said.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So what did he say?

Indian man (2): Yes, Prabhupāda, he accepted immediately.

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should return.

Prabhupāda: Return? All right. (break) ...seen by premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Unless there is love for God, who can see God? Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu. One who is lover of God, such saintly person, twenty-four hours he sees simply God, nothing else.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Separated... Just like I am talking and this will be reproduced as it is, although it is separated.

Hari-śauri: So He's not personally present there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you replay, the same voice will come, but I am not there. So if you want to utilize this separated energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it will help you. Just like the Deity. Everyone knows it is stone, but why we are worshiping stone?

Hari-śauri: It is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is as good as Kṛṣṇa. It is not worshiping the stone. Huh?

Indian man (2): Worship, who are worshiping, it never comes to their mind that it is a stone.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore the... That is the qualification. (break) ...qualified, you will see it is spiritual.

Vāsughoṣa: There are some religions that... Especially the one I am born in, they were especially preaching, you know, that "You should never see a graven image of God."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vāsughoṣa: "You should never see a graven image of God."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because you are not competent to see God everywhere.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Harikeśa: So it's not that we're so much concerned about science but rather the aśuravāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: We don't have to research because our conclusion is already there.

Prabhupāda: Already there. And it is acting, practical. How from the stone this has come? Stone and sand, but they are life; it is green. (Break) ...this?

Brahmānanda: This is a type of tree. There's many of them like this.

Prabhupāda: What is this? Fuel? (?) Now... Just see how fresh it is. You can take some foodstuff and eat very nicely.

Cyavana: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: And then throw it. That's all. What is the use of keeping on the veranda for three years? (laughter) I am seeing every day so carefully.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know what is living being. Living being has got the, I mean to say, independence, little independence. He can obey; he can violate. In our society there are so many. Somebody is strictly obeying, somebody is willfully, voluntary..., not voluntarily, willfully violating. They must fall down.

Jñāna: If God is perfect, why didn't He make us perfect?

Prabhupāda: He is made perfect, but He is not... You are not stone. God is not stone. You are living being. The same thing you are repeatedly asking. You have got little independence because you are part and parcel of God. So by misusing your independence, if you violate the orders of God, then you suffer. You are perfect because you have got independence, but you misuse that perfectness. That is your fault. You perfect. You become imperfect by misusing.

Jñāna: Independence?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is perfect. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Iso Invocation). Because you are part and parcel of God, you are perfect, but willfully you become imperfect. Again you become perfect; then you become imperfect.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Long and broad. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...is anatha, without any master, like these dogs, loitering, no hope where to get food, where to take shelter. Anātha. Anātha and sa-nātha. And you'll find a big man taking care of the dog, and he's barking like any..., "Aw! Aw! Aw!"—because he has got his master. And this poor fellow has no master; therefore he is suffering, anātha. (break) ...Yamunācārya, very nice. Mano-rathāntaram. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam. (break) ...the dog, that "These are saintly persons. If they can take me..." (break)

bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ

prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ

kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ

praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam

Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ: "Simply abiding by the orders of Your Lordship." Bhavantam eva caran, "acting," nirantaraḥ "twenty-four hours," and prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, "and finishing all this mental business, mental concoction, making plans." Niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ: "When I shall be unalloyedly devotee of Your Lordship, and," praharṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall be jubilant, living," sa-nātha-jīvitam, "that I have got my master. I have got my master. I have no cares and anxiety."

bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ

prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ

kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ

praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam

This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here?" Yes. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed. Somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) ...was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me. So practically... But I was confident that "I am not anātha, but I am sa-nātha." (break) ...does not want to become devotee?

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Bhāgavata: I was thinking if we had him for the festival, to come to the festival, that would be a very prestigious...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why don't you arrange for that? You have to arrange. Yes. (break) ...king. Their constitution, first word is "the king can do no wrong." Yes, that is the Vedic system. Suppose a king beheads somebody by his own sword, as it was being done. Nobody can charge him that "Without any trial he has killed this man." No. Whatever is done... Just like we take Kṛṣṇa, apāpa viddham. Kṛṣṇa is never touched with any sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. Tejiyasam na doṣaya (SB 10.33.29). Just as the sun, because it is very, very powerful, nothing can infect it. These are the dangers. (Hindi?) Of course, if you want to keep one in very exalted post, at the same time, if you want to find fault with him, then that is not good. That is not good. That is also stated, that arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If somebody thinks that the Deity is made of stone and he criticizes, that is not allowed. If one thinks spiritual master as ordinary human being, that is not allowed. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. So those who are in highly exalted post of the state, you cannot find out fault with him. That is real Vedic way. Otherwise, if he is taken as ordinary citizen, then he is... What is the meaning of his exalted post?

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a good test.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Goldsmith, they take a stone, black stone. Do you know? And they rub the gold on the stone, and they can immediately say whether it is gold or not. So our, that stone, is Kṛṣṇa. If anyone knows Kṛṣṇa, then it is gold. (laughter)

Devotee (3): Haribol! Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is bogus.

Indian man (5): It is very good.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Formerly these goldsmith boys, their father simply taught how to test gold. And as soon as he learns, he opens a shop and he earns thousands and thousands of rupees. No education. Simply by...

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Even today the jewelers' sons, they are expert in knowing diamonds and they make millions of rupees.

Indian man (6): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: This is Indian old fashion. They simply know how to test jewels and gold. That's all. One knowledge makes him rich.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: To become man? (laughter)

Harikeśa: Yes, nowadays we're doing that also.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) So you become woman. (break) ...here. Kalā, kalā?

Tejās: Stones.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kalā means craftsmanship. Why it is not here, lacking? No money. The kalā cannot be shown without money. I never saw New Delhi in such nasty condition.

Tejās: It's deteriorating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kalā is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalākendra.

Harikeśa: They have powdered milk.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: A child wants to play, and the father and mother gives the toys for that play. So without getting help from the father and mother, the child cannot enjoy. Similarly, we may desire but unless Kṛṣṇa helps us we cannot fulfill our desire.

Harikeśa: Is desire a function of consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is desire, how it is living? It is dead body. Stone, stone has no desire.

Harikeśa: The spirit soul is...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).

Harikeśa: It's very logical, step by step by step by step. Actually when it's seen from the point of view of the desire of the living entity, it makes perfect sense because he's got these senses and the sound, and then in order to hear, there has to be a vehicle for the sound, and then there has to be an instrument. And then in order to touch there has to be the vehicle and the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1975, Bombay:

Śravanānanda: Some life members (indistinct).... completely ridiculous. They were worshiping everything as God, so in every temple they go in they would pay their obeisances, and if there is some tree, they will pay their obeisances, if there is some stone or brick, and is covered with kuṁkuma and turmeric, they would also pay their obeisances.

Prabhupāda: So, what is the question?

Dr. Patel: Your answer is all right. Gurur brahma gurur viṣṇuḥ. So I mean that is the philosophy of...

Prabhupāda:

sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair

yuktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya

vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāravindam

In every śāstra you'll find, just like you say, gurur brahma gurur viṣṇuḥ. In other words, sākṣād-haritvena, directly Hari.

Dr. Patel: Sākṣād-hari.

Prabhupāda: Sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair. Not that in a particular.... In all the śāstra. And sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair yukta, "It is said," tathā, bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, "and this is accepted by all authorities."