So this is the position of the materialistic person. A materialistic person knows that he is sinful. A materialistic person knows that whatever he is doing is wrong, but he cannot check. Just like the thief. A thief knows that if he commits stealing, he will be arrested, he will be punished. He knows. Because he heard from lawbooks, from other sources, and he has also seen that a thief is arrested and he is taken by the police for being punished. So we have got two kinds of experiences: by hearing and by seeing directly. In Bengali it is called, dekhā-śunā. In India it is called. The two kinds of experience: one by seeing, practically experiencing, hand to hand; another by hearing. So one who is intelligent, he gets his experience simply by hearing from the right source. That is nice.
Steal (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
I want to remain servant of my husband because I want sense gratification. Here is the disease. Everyone. Even the servant of the servant or servant of the dog (CC Madhya 13.80). Because I like it, a pet dog. So actually, instead of becoming master, we become servant. This is the fact. And servant of whom? Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. Servant of lust, servants of greediness. Kāma, krodha, moha, mātsarya. Servant of all these senses. Therefore one who is intelligent... There was a brāhmaṇa. He said like this: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I am now servant. I have served so much." Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā durnideśāḥ. "I have served them so nicely that I had to execute something which is abominable." If you become servant of somebody, if he says that "You have to do it," your conscience does not allow you to do it. Still, you have to do it. Still, you have to do it. A man is stealing for family. He does not like to steal. Still, he is in need of money; he has to steal. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. This is study, study the psychological condition. When I become servant of māyā, even I do not wish to do something which is not very good, still I am obliged to do it. But the result is that nobody is satisfied.
The king himself used to judge. A criminal was brought before the king, and if the king thought it wise, he would take his own sword, immediately cut his head. That was the duty of king. Even not many, about hundred years ago in Kashmir, the king, as soon as a thief was caught, he would be brought before the king, and if he is proved that he was a thief, he has stolen, immediately the king will cut off his hands personally, chopped off. Even hundred years ago. So all other thieves warned, "This is your punishment." So there was no thiefing. There was no stealing, no burglary in Kashmir. Even somebody lost something on the road, it will lie down. Nobody will touch it. The order was, king's order was, "If something is lying down on the street uncared for, you cannot touch it. The man who has left it, he would come; he will collect. You cannot take." Even hundred years ago. So this capital punishment is required. Nowadays the capital punishment is excused. Murderers are not hanged. This is all mistake, all rascaldom. A murderer must be killed. No mercy. Why a human killer? Even an animal killer should be immediately hanged? That is kingdom. The king should be so strict.
Those who are duṣkṛtina, sinful, duṣkṛtina... Kṛti means meritorious, and duṣ means..., means miscreants, meritorious for mischief-making. We, everyone has got merit. The mischief-maker, he has also got merit, but one who uses his merit for mischief-making... Just like a great rogue, a thief. When he steals, he requires brain. So he's applying his brain, how to steal tactfully, how to become a great rogue tactfully. How to become a smuggler... They require also brain. So the brain is being misused for mischievous activities. They are called miscreants, duṣkṛtina. So those who are duṣkṛtina... Na māṁ prapadyante, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). One class is duṣkṛtina and the other class is mūḍha. Mūḍha means less intelligence, or no intelligence. na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. And narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. And māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ, those whose knowledge have been taken by māyā, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These classes of men do not surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. We are not manufacturing these words. These words are in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā, we have to accept the statements, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā means the speeches which is delivered, or the song which is sung by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, when you say we must be honest in our dealings... If we have an advantage to, to take advantage of somebody else for Kṛṣṇa, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is this permissible? If we have a chance to take advantage of somebody to get money from them, not by stealing but by means... (Prabhupāda chuckles) Is this permissible?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is not by your discretion. You have to consult your spiritual master. Just like what Kṛṣṇa says Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, "Yudhiṣṭhira, My dear brother Yudhiṣṭhira, you go and tell," I mean to say, "Droṇācārya, that 'Your son is dead.' " Because this gentleman would not die unless he hears the message of the death of his son. So he was not dying. So Yudhiṣṭhira was commissioned to speak this lie, that "You go and say that 'Your son is dead.' " And he says that "I never spoke lie. I cannot do that." Now here the order is coming from Kṛṣṇa, therefore he should have executed the order immediately. Although speaking lie for common man is sin, but because it is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, it is not sin. So that telling lie should not be taken risk of at one's own discretion. It must be ordered by Kṛṣṇa or by His representative. Telling lie is always sinful. That's all right.
No. The soul is part of the Lord. Lord is the Supersoul. So therefore, yoga practice means the soul wants to find out the Supersoul. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, those who are real yogis, not bogus yogis, real yogi, they wants to meditate upon the Supersoul. The Supersoul or the soul, they are sitting on the same tree, the body. The Supersoul is simply witnessing the activities of the soul and giving sanction for all his mischievous activities. But the soul is suffering the sequence or the result of his activities. The Supersoul is simply witness. That is stated in the Bhagavad... Anumantā upadraṣṭā. Anumantā means without God's sanction, without Supersoul's sanction, you cannot do anything. But because he persists, the soul persists to do something, Supersoul says, "All right, you do at your own risk." Just like a thief is going to steal. The Supersoul is ordering, "Don't do it," because without God's sanction he cannot steal. But when the thief persists, then He says, "All right, you do at your risk." This is the position of the Supersoul and the soul.
So brain may be a, a combination of nice matter, but it cannot work without the spirit soul. We should clearly understand this. And if we accept this body as the everything... Just like the other day, I told you, I met one big professor, Russian professor, in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, after this body is finished, everything's finished." This is the atheistic theory. This is not new. In India there are many atheists, followers of Cārvāka. According to Cārvāka Muni, his theory is: bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya punaḥ kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvad jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā pibet. "Just live joyfully, merrily..." "No, I have no money." "All right. Take, beg, borrow and steal. Some way or other, get money." That is going on. "Get money some way or other and live." That is Cārvāka theory. Hedonism. "Get money..." So this is going, this civilization is going on. "Somehow or other, get money." Because without money, you cannot get woman, you cannot get nice palatable food, nice dress, nice apartment, nice car. "So bring money, somehow or other." Everyone is coming forward as very philanthropist leader. The aim is how to get money. That's all. That is their philanthropism. They, they speak so many nonsense things, but the real idea is how to get money.
Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa, without Kṛṣṇa's sanction, you cannot do anything. Therefore first of all you desire, and Kṛṣṇa gives you sanction to fulfill your desire. And as you, you fulfill your desire, you become complicated with the reaction of your desire. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra karma-bandhanaḥ. If you act for Kṛṣṇa, then you are all right, but if you are acting for your sense gratification, you'll be entangled by the resultant action. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind that if you want to do something, first of all He says, "No." Just like a thief, he's praying to God: "My dear Lord, give me some opportunity. I can steal that thing." Kṛṣṇa first of all says, "No, no. Don't do it." But he insists. Then Kṛṣṇa says, "All right. Do it." But as soon as you do it, you become entangled. Why you are doing against the will of Kṛṣṇa? That is your entanglement. Kṛṣṇa says: "Don't do this." Why you are doing that? So Kṛṣṇa is giving you facility to steal others' property, but you become entangled. That is not Kṛṣṇa's responsibility. Your responsibility. Suppose a high-court judge gives sanction that "This man should be condemned to death. He should be hanged," Does it mean the high-court judge is your enemy and hanging you? He has nothing to do to become your enemy or friend. You have committed situation that you should be hanged. He's giving order: "Be hanged." That's all. So your business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and act according to His instruction. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise not.
So there are so many, twelve rasas. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. All the rasas that we have got experience within this world, they are coming from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Vedānta-sūtra says, "Everything, whatever we see within our experience, we cannot experience anything if it is not in Kṛṣṇa." That is Kṛṣṇa. He was stealing, which we consider not very good business. That stealing is also in Kṛṣṇa. He's, He's famous as Mākhana-cora, the stealer of butter. So this is Kṛṣṇa. So everything is there. Whatever our dealings in this material world we find, that is only perverted reflection of our dealing with Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world. But those who are unaware of the spiritual world, impersonalists, they have no information that Kṛṣṇa is always busy. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī. He's always busy. He's person. But He is simply dear to the gopījana. Gopījana-vallabha. He wants to please the gopījanas. The gopīs, the cowherd boys and the gopīs, constant companion of Kṛṣṇa.
But these rascals they do not know. They think death is natural—after death everything is finished. Now so long I am not dying, let me enjoy. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. Enjoyment means... According to our Indian system, their enjoyment is not meat-eating as in the Western countries. Their enjoyment is eating ghee more, become chubby, fatty. That is their enjoyment. So Cārvāka Muni recommended, "Now eat ghee and enjoy life." Kacuri, samosā, all made of ghee preparation. Then "I have no money, sir. Where shall I get ghee?" Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā. "Beg, borrow, steal, get ghee." Somehow or other, black market, white market, any way. Bring money and ghee, that's all. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Eat as much possible ghee." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvād jīvet sukham. Jīvet. Sukhaṁ jīvet. "So long you live, live merrily, very nicely." That is the theory of all the European philosophers. Live merrily. But the philosopher at the end becomes paralyzed. His merriness is finished. Who is that philosopher has become paralyzed? So they make all these theories. Not only European philosophers, another philosopher in India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he is now brain paralyzed.
So here is one śāstra-vidhim from Parāśara-smṛti. Parāśara was the father of Vyāsadeva. He has got his regulative principles. They're also realized souls on Vedic principles. They wrote so many books. In this Parāśara-smṛti it is said: kṣatriyo hi prajā rakṣan śastra, śastra-pāṇiḥ pradaṇḍayan. Śastra-pāṇi means always with sword in the hand for the benefit of the prajas. He should be so strong. "Oh, you are a thief? You have stolen?" Immediately cut his hand, bas. This one example will stop millions of thieves not to commit stealing. Simply by cutting. Even a hundred years ago this system was prevalent in Kashmir. If a thief is arrested and if he's proved that he has stolen, immediately king will cut off his two hands. Bas, finished. No court witness. And it will go for ten years to find out whether he has stolen. This is government. Therefore, the injunction is kṣatriya hi prajā rakṣan śastra-pāṇiḥ pradaṇḍayan. Always must be very strict. Nirjitya para-sainyādi dharmeṇa pālayet. This is dharma. In the Manu-smṛti it is said that if a man, a murderer, one man has killed another man... Why man? Even animal. He's a murderer. Now murdering is no offense. They are killing daily so many babies within the womb, murderers. That has become a custom. They're killing hundreds and thousands of animals daily in the slaughterhouse. It has become a custom. So now even human being, murder, he's not condemned to death. Is it not?
We do not know for how many millions of years I'll have to travel in that cycle of birth and death. Therefore it is poison. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. I know this, I am hearing. Still,... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa... Just like a thief. Jāniyā śuniyā, these words are very significant. Jāniyā means knowing, and śuniyā means hearing. So a habituated thief, he knows that "If I steal I shall be put into jail." And he has heard from scriptures that "Don't steal. Then you'll be put into hell." So he has heard from the scriptures and he has seen practically. He has experienced practically, but still, as soon as he's freed from the prison life, he again commits the same mistake. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. We know, we are hearing from the scriptures, from authorities, Vedic literatures, that "I have got this miserable conditional body, material body, to suffer threefolds of material miseries; still, I am not very much anxious how to stop this repetition of birth and death. I am drinking poison." Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. These songs are very instructive. Simply purposefully, we are drinking poison.
There is a story how habit is the second nature. There was a thief, and he went to pilgrimage with some other friends. So at night, when other friends were sleeping... Because his habit was to steal at night, he, so he got up at night and he was taking one body's baggage and tried to pickpocket or take something. But he was thinking, "Oh, I have come to this holy place of pilgrimage. Still, shall I do that, committing theft, my habit? No, no. I shall not do it." So he was taking the bag of one person and was keeping in another place. So in the whole night the poor fellow did like that. But due to his conscience that, "I have come to this holy place. At least, during my stay here I shall not do this stealing business." So in the morning, when all other friends got up, everyone said, "Oh, where is my bag? I don't see!" Another man says, "I don't see my bag." Then somebody says, "Oh, here is your bag!" So there was some row. So they, they thought, "What is the matter? How it so happened?" Then the thief rose up and told all friends, "My dear gentlemen, I am a thief by occupation, but because I have that habit to steal at night, so I wanted to steal something from your bag, but I thought that 'I have come to this holy place. I shall not do it.' So I placed, I might have placed one man's bag in another man's place. So excuse me." So this is the habit. This is the habit. He does not want. He does not want to commit theft. But he has got the habit of doing that. So similarly, here he has decided not to commit theft anymore, but because he's habituated, sometimes he does.
Just like a thief. He sees personally that a man who has committed theft is taken away by the police to the custody, to the prison. He is seeing that, and he has heard the law that "Any man who steals, he will be punished." He has heard it, and he has seen it. Still, he commits theft. Why? He is seeing, and he is hearing. In both ways he is understanding, but still, he is committing theft. That means his heart is not pure.
So the first thing is to make one's heart purified. And this is the process, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam (CC Antya 20.12), by simply chanting, without paying any price, without any loss on your part. Please try to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result. It is so nice movement.
Kṛṣṇa says that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). That I have already explained, what is that glāniḥ? The glāniḥ is when we forget Kṛṣṇa. Then our activities become polluted. Just like a servant. If he forgets that there is master, then he becomes polluted. He steals, he mismanages things, things become very disordered. But if he has got the sense that "I have got my master, everything belongs to my master," and if he acts accordingly, that is very nice.
Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean laziness. We do not indulge. Just like Arjuna. This Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna. He wanted to retire, that "Kṛṣṇa, why You are engaging me in this battlefield? Let me retire." So Kṛṣṇa did not allow him to retire. To understand his position, that is require. Retirement, how you can retire? You cannot retire. So long you have got this body you have to work. If you do not work you have to beg. If you do not beg then you have to steal or you have to borrow. How you can retire? There is no question of retire. Retire means to retire from all foolish activities and engage yourself in real activities. Retire is the negative side. But unless you have got positive side you cannot retire. You'll have come back again.
Suppose a person is working very hard for his nation and trying to drive away others, non-national. But that is not kāma-saṅkalpa-varjitāḥ, That is kāma-saṅkalpa-sahitāḥ. So therefore that is material. Superficially, it may be very philanthropic, sacrificing. Now, suppose one man is stealing for his personal benefit, and the same stealing, if he steals for his family, is he not a thief? Either he steals for his family or for himself, stealing is stealing. But nowadays it is going on that if you steal for greater selfish interest, it is not stealing. No.
That greater, the greatest selfish interest is Kṛṣṇa. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). So you make it greater. That's all right. But where is the point where the greatness will be limited or there will end? That is Kṛṣṇa.
If anyone is satisfied in this way in Kṛṣṇa consciousness where is the question of stealing? There is no question of stealing. There is no need of law for the thieves. People will become so honest. He will be satisfied.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is all pervading. Either you take socially, politically, religiously, scientifically, philosophically—any way you take. Just like sandalwood. Sandalwood you rub it on the stone in any way the pulp will be flavored. It is not that if you rub the wood on the stone in this way then the pulp will come flavored. No.
So he joined Lord Caitanya. So his father, he was the only son, very beloved son. Very nice wife. Left everything. And left means stealing, without saying anything. Somehow or other he left home. And the father could understand he has gone to Lord Caitanya at Purī. So he sent four servants, because he was very rich man. And four hundred rupees—five hundred years ago four hundred rupees means twenty times at the present value. So first of all he accepted, that, "Oh, father has sent, all right." So how he was spending money? So he was inviting all the sannyāsīs, in Jagannātha Purī there were many sannyāsīs, renounced order. And every month he was offering feasting. Then after few days, Lord Caitanya inquired His secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara, "Oh, nowadays I don't get any invitation from Raghunātha. What happened?" "Oh, Sir, he has stopped accepting his father's money." "Oh, that's very nice."
One who takes shelter under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then for him, this place, which is padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58), a place wherein every step there is danger... This material world is supposed that every step there is danger. Just see. What we are doing? Innocent, culturing some spiritual process, and there are so many complaints. Just see. We are not stealing. We are not, I mean to say, making propaganda for some political purpose, nothing. Innocent thing we are doing. But still, somebody comes forward and puts some dangerous position. You see? So this is such a place. Lord Jesus Christ, his only fault was that he was preaching God's message. He was crucified. You see? So these things are... This place is like that. Even if you are innocent, still, you'll be put into danger. Therefore this place should be avoided. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām: "Every step there is danger."
Then why does He give sanction for our sinful activities? Because we want to do it. Because we want to do it. God does not want that you become implicated in sinful life. Therefore thief, he steals very stealthily. God says from within, "Don't steal. You will be implicated. You will be punished. Why you are stealing?" But he will do. He will do. That is ajñāna. That is ignorance. God is always helping us, but we do not care for God. That is our disease. Therefore we are getting different types of bodies and suffering. This is the philosophy, real philosophy, that God is there with me in the same bird, in the same, exactly the same, that the driver is there and the proprietor is there in the same car. The car is a machine. Similarly, this body is a machine.
Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are not purified, sinful acting, sinful, acting only sinfully, such person is called duṣkṛtina. Kṛtina, they are... Kṛti means meritorious. But these rascals are meritorious in doing all sinful activities. Sinful activities also require merit. Even if you become a very expert thief, this stealing is sinful activity, but it requires some brain. It requires some brain. Therefore the word is used, kṛtina. Kṛtina means meritorious. But duṣkṛtina. Their merit is being applied for sinful activity. Similarly, there is another word, sukṛtina. You can employ your merit for pious activities. The merit is the same.
Don't reject this as, because you could not capture the grapes, then the grapes and the jackals. The jackal... You know that story. The jackal went to steal some grapes in the orchard, and it was very high. He jumped over several times. He could not get it. Then he rejected, "Oh, this is sour. I don't want it."
Similarly, this Māyāvādī philosophy is like that. First of all he wants to become very big man, very big businessman, minister, this, that, to enjoy, simply enjoy, competition of enjoyment. But when he's baffled, when he did not enjoy, simply suffered—he comes to his knowledge that "I could not enjoy; I simply suffered"—then "It is mithyā. Grapes are sour." That philosophy will not do. You must know that this prakṛti, this material world, you are not enjoyer. The enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When Kṛṣṇa steals or does anything, we glorify it because He is absolute. So the Māyāvādīs, they say that the living entities are also absolute. Is that correct?
Prabhupāda: No. That is a wrong theory. If Māyāvādī is absolute..., jīva is absolute, then why they have become conditioned? Why? What is the answer?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are dependent on some higher absolute.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it possible for one person to be part demon and part devotee in the same person?
Prabhupāda: If he's a devotee, he's not demon at all, if he's devotee.
From the mine. So who has created mine? Your father has created this mine, that you are taking this iron? That means you are thief. You are thief. The iron is not your property. The iron is there already. If it is already there, you must conclude it is somebody's property. So you are taking it away without asking the proprietor. Then are you not thief? What is the meaning of stealing? If you take something without asking the proprietor, that is stealing. So the iron is there, you are taking from the mine iron. You may convert into various things. That is another thing. But the original iron, to whom it belongs? Kṛṣṇa declares in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor." So He is the proprietor. Sarva-loka, all planets. So in this planet, when you find this iron, then whose property it is? When you find it, you must know it belongs to somebody. And who is that person? Without asking that person, without taking permission of that person, if you take away, are you not thief?
The so-called civilization, they are all set of thieves, rogues. And they are formulating rules and regulation for others' fraud, those who are devotees. They are themselves fraud. Everything belongs... Suppose you have got this iron, stealing from the mine Kṛṣṇa's property. Then if by some way or other, I take your iron and give it back to Kṛṣṇa, so I am fraud or you are fraud? You do not possess anything. But you are claiming that you are proprietor of this thing, that thing, which you have taken by stealing. And if your stolen property, I take it from you and return it to Kṛṣṇa, then who is fraud? You are fraud or I am fraud? Who is fraud? But they have made their own laws. They will steal, they will plunder, and still, they are honest gentlemen.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Cārvāka Muni, he used to say, "Enjoy life, senses. Gratify your senses some way or other." "No, I have no sufficient money." Ṛṇam kṛtvā: "Take. Beg, borrow, steal. Bring money." There are three methods of getting money. If one hasn't got money, then beg. Just like we are beginning, professional beggar, sannyāsī. They beg, borrow. And those who are not beggar, they borrow from friend, or steal, by hook and crook. So that is Cārvāka theory. "Bring money some way or other. Beg, borrow or steal." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā, the very word is used. "If you have no money, then take loan from your friends." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. "Now, I have to pay back. How can I take loan? If I don't pay, then I shall remain debtor, and I will have to pay in my next life." "No, no, don't bother about next life." Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet: "When your body, when it is finished, it will be burnt into ashes. Then the ashes will be lost. No more you are coming."
So here is... The first thing is how much eager you are to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will respond. If you are actually eager to see Kṛṣṇa... It, the reason may be different, either you are lusty or to steal His ornament. Some way or other, you become attracted to Kṛṣṇa, then your business is successful. Rūpa Gosvāmī has advised that... He says in a poetry. It is on the matter of the gopīs talking. One gopī is advising another gopī that "My dear friend..."
- smerān bhaṅgī-traya-paricitāṁ sāci-vistīrṇa-dṛṣṭiṁ
- vaṁśīnyastādhara-kiśalayām ujjvalāṁ candrakeṇa
- govindākhyāṁ haritanumitaḥ keśi-tīrthopakaṇṭhe
- mā prekṣiṣṭhāstava yadi sakhe! bandhu-saṅge 'sti raṅgaḥ
The idea is that one gopī is advising another gopī, "My dear friend, there is one boy. His name is Govinda. He is standing on the bank of Yamunā near the Keśi-ghāṭa, and He's playing on His flute. And He's so beautiful that especially during full moon night, please do not go there." (laughter) Why? "Now, because if you have got intention to enjoy in this material world with your family members, wife, children, husband, please do not go there." Smerān bhaṅgī-traya-paricitāṁ sāci-vistīrṇa-dṛṣṭim. Bhaṅgī-traya. "Kṛṣṇa always stands in three-curved way with His flute. That is Kṛṣṇa's tri-bhaṅga-murāri." Tri-bhaṅga. Three places, He is bent.
So you see so many pictures of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is playing with His cowherd boys; Kṛṣṇa dancing with His girlfriends, gopīs; Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter; Kṛṣṇa is doing so many—simply happiness, simply happiness. You won't find Kṛṣṇa is morose and sitting or crying. (laughter) Even if He is killing some demon, very laughingly, as easy job. You see? So either He is killing or dancing, He is happy. So we are giving this information of happiness, the topmost happiness, without any... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that spirit soul, the Supersoul or the individual soul, their nature is to become happy. Ānandamaya. Happy. Spiritual life means happiness. There is no distress. But that happiness can be attained in cooperation with the Supreme. We are sparks of fire. So with the fire, if the sparks are "fut-put"... You see sometimes, the sparks; it looks very beautiful.
It is so pure. What is called? Disinfectant. The whole world is infected with the māyā's influence, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is disinfectant. It is sure. Disinfectant. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavaḥ. (commentary) Bhagavad-yaśaḥ-pradhānāṁ vacaḥ pavitram ity aha tad vāg iti, tad vāg-visarga sa cāsau vāg-visargo vacaḥ prayogaḥ. Janānāṁ samuho janatā, tasya aghaṁ viplavati naśayati.(?) Viplava means it kills. Because disinfectant. For example, we can give, now how this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is disinfectant, that those who have seriously taken to it, they immediately stop the sinful infections, the four principles, regulative principles, illicit sex life, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. How disinfectant it is. These four principles increases sinful activities. All other sinful activities will come one after another, one after another. Stealing, then cheating, then... So many other things will come if we follow these four principles. And if we stop these four principles, then the switch is off of committing further sinful activities. You must know that. It is... And how it can be maintained? By this disinfectant method, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, it will not, simply by theoretical knowledge will not do.
So whatever "ism"—"ism" is nowadays there—they were all experimental in Indian philosophy. Just like Cārvāka Muni. He was atheist. Amongst the sages there are atheist philosophers also, as in the modern days there are atheist philosopher also. So this Cārvāka Muni, he said, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. Ghṛtam. Ghṛtam means butter, clarified butter. If you want to have very palatable dishes, then you require ghee. Without ghee, you cannot make. Either sweetball or kacuris, srngara,(?) so many nice things. So we require sweetball. So... And in India, of course, they wanted palatable dishes, but not otherwise it is made of ghee. But too much eating of these palatable dishes is not good. That makes our senses very strong. So we should not take much of it, but we can take something of kṛṣṇa-prasādam and satisfy ourself. So he says that, Cārvāka Muni, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Beg, borrow or steal. Get some money and eat, as much as possible, ghee." You see? This is modern civilization. "Any way, bring money and satisfy your senses. That's all. Finish business."
Just like a man is addicted to commit theft. He has got a habit of stealing. And if I say, "Stealing is very nice art. You can go on with you, with it," then where is the reformation? There is no question of... He, he's already addicted. So it is encouragement. So similarly, in the dharma-śāstra... Just like in Mahābhārata there is... (aside:) Where is that "cut cut" noise? Don't make that sound. Just like in marriage ceremony. Marriage ceremony... Of course, in your country, the marriage ceremony is different. In India still, the people spend as much as possible in the marriage ceremony, millions of dollars. If one man is rich, he'll spend for his son's marriage or daughter's marriage. That is a great credit. "Oh, this man is very rich man. He's spending so much money." So there are so many religious performances, ritualistic performances. You have to spend money. So you must find out so many performances. So they have all these in the śāstras.
Now, those who are karma-kāṇḍīya, karmīs... Karmīs means those who follow strictly the ritualistic ceremonies, as it is indicated in the Vedas. They are karmīs. Karma, akarma and vikarma. There are three divisions of our activities. Generally we say karmīs, ordinary men, who are working hard to earn some money and enjoy. Actually, they are not karmīs. They are vikarmīs. Real karmīs... Just like a thief. A thief is stealing. That is also certain kind of activity. It is not inactivity. So we cannot say that this is bona fide activity. He's also planning. He's also making plan, how to steal, how to go upstairs of the house and then come down. So there is activity. But such kind of activity is not bona fide activity. Therefore, according to śāstra, it is called vikarma. Vikarma means it is counteractivity. Activity means you have to work legally. That is activity. If you say that "I am very much active in stealing," then that is not excused. Then you'll... Government will say, "Please stop your activity. You come into the prison." Yes.
This is not only new. Formerly the Carvaka Muni, he also advocated, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. In India, they want to eat very nice foodstuff prepared from ghee. So he advised that ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: if you have no money, then beg, borrow, or steal, get ghee and eat very nice. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā, the word is... Suppose one has no money, then how to get money? Either cheat somebody, beg, or beg. But begging for gṛhastha is not very good thing, but sometimes they do so. Beg, borrow, or promising, "Give me now money, I shall pay you." And when credit is lost, then steal, pickpocket. This is as theory. Similarly, Carvaka Muni, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, never mind. "No, I will have to pay." "No, that we shall see later on, never mind." "No, I will be sinful, I will have to pay next life."
So compulsory, the government is trying to make compulsory, but that cannot. You cannot make a person honest simply by legislation. He must be vimarśanam. Prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. One must be fully conscious, "Now what I am doing, it is wrong." Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Just like a person who is a thief, he knows that "I am stealing, and if I am arrested, I'll be punished." He knows that. And he has seen that one thief is arrested. So we get two kinds of experiences. One kind of experience by hearing: "If you do this, then the result will be this." That is hearing. And one kind of experience by directly seeing. So the thief has both. He has seen that a thief has been punished, and he knows by hearing from the lawbooks or from religious books that stealing is not good. But still he commits repeatedly, again and again stealing. Why? Because he has no knowledge. Therefore knowledge is essential. That knowledge can be revived. This is kṛṣṇa-kīrtana.
He says that if one takes sentimentally this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, tyaktvā sva-dharmam... Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you young men, young boys and girls, are coming. You had some engagement previously, undoubtedly. You may be you were a student, you may be businessman or so on, so on. Everyone has got... At least you had some business for LSD. So you have given up all this. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. Somehow or other you were all engaged in some business. That is called sva-dharma. Sva-dharma means one has selected some business. That is his sva-dharma. Generally, if it is systematic, then sva-dharma means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This is systematic, sva-dharma. Otherwise, everyone must have some engagement. Suppose a thief, he has taken the occupation or profession of stealing. That is also sva-dharma. But that is not systematic; that is whimsical. So anyone must have some engagement. That engagement is called sva-dharma, his own business occupation. Sva-karma or sva-dharma.
Another pramatta is that those who are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). There is another verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Those who are pramatta, those who have no responsibility of life, sometimes unnecessarily stealing and doing some, so many wrong things... Vikarma. Why? Now pramatta, he is also crazy. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And why he is taking risk of being punished? Suppose one man is stealing. He'll be punished. Either by the law of the state or by the laws of nature or God, he'll be punished. He can escape the laws of the state, but he cannot escape the laws of nature or God. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). It is not possible. Just like the laws of nature. If you infect some disease, so you'll have to be punished. You'll suffer from that disease. That is punishment. You cannot escape. Similarly, anything you do, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). If you live like a cat and dog, that is infection, guṇa, the modes of ignorance. Then your next life you become a dog. You must be punished. This is law of nature.
Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Every corner of this temple should be considered "Here is Kṛṣṇa." Then Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not that "Only in the temple Kṛṣṇa is there, not in the gate. Let it be open and thief may come and steal." No. Very, very careful. The idea is that devotee must be expert in understanding things very clearly. Just like Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa is requesting him. Therefore it is said, evaṁ parīkṣatā. Kṛṣṇa is trying to see how Arjuna is Kṛṣṇa conscious. "I am requesting you, 'Kill him.' " And what does he decide? Kṛṣṇa knew everything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. So what Arjuna was thinking of, Kṛṣṇa knew it that he was thinking rightly not to kill this man. Still, He was parīkṣatā, He was examining how Arjuna decides. So he passed the examination.
That is not God consciousness. You give everything to God. That is God consciousness. Just like the conception of accepting God as child. That is better conception (than) to accept God as father, because from father we simply take away: "Father, give me this, give me that, give me that, give me that." And if you accept God as child, then you have to give everything. This is Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava conception. Yaśodāmāyi. (S)He has accepted, (s)he is worshiping God as child, so that she is always engaged that Kṛṣṇa may not be in any inconvenience, about His body, about His comforts. Always Mother Yaśodā is anxious that "Kṛṣṇa is now very naughty. He may not capture some monkey, He may not fall down on the water, He may not be burnt in the fire." Always anxious. Because this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. She is always anxious to give protection to Kṛṣṇa. The best service. Kṛṣṇa does not require anyone's service. He is complete, pūrṇam. But for pleasing His devotee, He becomes dependent. He is bothering mother, "I am hungry. Why don't you give Me food. I will steal butter, your stock."
He has ot so much business because He is directing the whole universal affair. You can understand, if one man becomes busy in so many things, his brain becomes puzzled. But Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart—not only the human being; the animals, the trees, plants, everyone. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ. And what He is doing? He is giving direction. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am sitting in everyone's heart," sarvasya ca aham hṛdi sann... Again hṛdi, in the soul, in the heart. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca, "I am giving particular direction to everyone." He is forgetting something, he is reminding..., he is reminded something. In this way Kṛṣṇa is doing. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. How much busy is that? The thief wants to steal something, somebody's house, so he is also praying God, "Please give me some opportunity so that I can steal." So Kṛṣṇa is giving him direction, "All right, you steal in this way." And the same person in whose house the stealing wil be committed, he is also praying, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, please protect me from thieves." So he is also believing. That just see Kṛṣṇa's business: He is giving direction to the thief, and giving direction to the person in whose house the stealing will be committed. So if..., just try to understand how much Kṛṣṇa is busy. That is God.
Now we have got a propensity to take other's thing. You can say it is stealing. We have got that propensity. Why? Now Kṛṣṇa has got. Kṛṣṇa is known as the Butter-thief. The beginning, thiefing, stealing. So unless that stealing propensity's there, how I can get? But Kṛṣṇa's stealing and my stealing is different. Because I am materially contaminated, therefore my stealing is abominable. Whereas the same stealing in the spiritual absolute platform is so nice that enjoyable. Mother Yaśodā enjoying the activities of stealing by Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Material and spiritual. Any activities spiritual, that is all good, and any activity, material, that is all bad. This is the difference. Here, the so-called morality, goodness, they're all bad. And in the spiritual world, so-called immorality is also good. That you have to understand.
Whatever we are doing... Because God is everywhere situated... Samaṁ carantaṁ sarvatra. Kṛṣṇa is there, everywhere. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is situated in everyone's heart. So we cannot conceal anything from God. In another place it is said, "Just like the sun is the eye of God..." Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām. Savitā. Savitā means sun, Sūrya, is the eye of Govinda. So if you are doing something, any part of the world, the sun is seeing. This is a crude example. Similarly, at night the moon is seeing, and Kṛṣṇa says that raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ (BG 7.8). So Kṛṣṇa... The sunshine is also Kṛṣṇa. So if you think that "I am doing something for my sense gratification. Nobody is seeing. I am stealing some sugarcane from the field, and nobody's seeing," but how you can say nobody's seeing? The sun is seeing. How you can conceal? "No, I shall do it at night." Oh, the moon is seeing. So how can you conceal?
Ah, he knows. Second Canto, Fourth Chapter. So asmin bhave. This is the problem. These rascals, they do not care to understand. They are so absorbed in ignorance. Just like some of the, what is called, smugglers. Smugglers, they go on with their work. They do not know... Some of them know also that "We'll be punished. We'll be arrested." Still, they go on. That is the difficulty. A thief knows that "If I am arrested for these criminal acts, I'll be punished." He knows it. And perhaps he has been punished several times. But still, he commits the same thing. Still, he steals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).
So why? Ignorance. Ignorance. So therefore this very word is used, avidyā. He never thinks... He is so much absorbed in ignorance that he has no time to think that "Repeatedly I am stealing, and repeatedly I am arrested, and I am punished. I sent to jail. Why I am doing this?" Result is not very good. Just like a person too much sexually inclined. He suffers in so many venereal diseases, undergoes operation, and still, he goes to prostitute, again does the same thing. This is avaidha-strī-saṅga, illegitimate.
So intelligent persons, they should be aware that "Simply for sense gratification if we are working so hard, then this is being done by the animals also. Then what is the difference between us and the animal?" But they are so mad after sense gratification... Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vi... They are prepared to work for something which one should... Just like stealing or black-marketing and... There are so many things. They are working hard. Even a, a thief, he is risking his life not to work hard, but he's risking his life. Especially in the Western countries, the burglars, they risk their life because there the law is that anyone trespassing within your house, even ordinarily, you can kill him. Is it not? The law is so hard that even if you, if you enter anyone's gate, anyone's property, without permission, he can kill you. Is it not I am right? Yes. Here in India we don't take it so seriously. So many people are passing here and there. But in your country... I know that one of our boy went to pick up some flowers in Los Angeles, and he was fired. Of course he did not like to kill him, but the firing was there. So just see. For sense gratification the thief taking the risk of his life... The working... Not only working hard. Those who are not thief, they are working very hard to get some money, honestly or dishonestly, and those who are not very honest, to steal they make so many plans, so many devices to steal at the risk of life.
I have given this example many times. Perhaps you may remember. Suppose here is the assembly and there is one hundred dollar note is there, fallen from somebody's pocket. So if I take or you take the hundred dollar note and put your in the pocket: "Here is a hundred dollar note," then you are a thief, because that hundred dollar note does not belong to you. You are taking it without his information. That means you are a thief. This is called bhoga, enjoyment. And another is tyāga. One thinks, "Oh, why shall I touch it? Somebody's... Let it remain there. I have no, nothing to do." This is called tyāga, giving up. So the hundred dollar note is the same. One is trying to enjoy it, and one is trying to give it up: "I don't care for it." So both of them are fools, bhogī and tyāgī. Bhogī means the karmīs. The karmīs, those who are working very hard, utilizing... The scientists are utilizing the resources, material resources. That means all are making policy how to steal that note. That is their policy, the karmīs. And another, while he was unable to steal, he says, "Oh, grapes are sour. There is no need of..." That is tyāgī.
So long the life is there, everyone is thinking, "I have got this responsibility. I have got this responsibility. I have got this responsibility," and they are working very, very hard and doing all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Now, somebody's stealing for the sake of family maintenance, doing so many sinful activities, but when they are scattered again by the laws of nature, nobody will be sympathetic to me if I suffer for my own sinful activities. But they do by the so-..., for the so-called family. They get money, and they... Due to affection... First of all, whatever he earns, by hook or by crook, first of all he wants to see that his wife, children, are fed up very nicely. And, at last, if there is some remnants, he can eat, out of affection. You see?
Just like in kṛṣṇa-līlā, Kṛṣṇa was stealing butter. So the neighboring friends of Yaśodā-mātā, was complaining... It is not complain; it was just to see the fun of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was sitting, and they were complaining. They were seeing the bodily feature, how Kṛṣṇa is feeling. So other ladies complaining, "Mother Yaśodā, your son comes to our house and steals butter. You see. We try to conceal them in a darkness so that this boy cannot see. But still He finds out. So better you take away all His ornaments because the jewel, light of the jewel, helps Him to find out the butter pot." So Yaśodā said, "Yes, I'll do that. I'll take away all these ornaments. Yes." Then they say, "No, no, it is useless. Oh, this boy has got some effulgence of Himself. Without ornaments He can, He can also find out."
There is another story—it may be fact—that a boy was raised by his aunt very liberally. Then, gradually, the boy became, in bad association, a thief. And the aunt was encouraging, "Oh, it is a very good business. You are bringing so many things without any labor." So... Or out of affection he (she) did not chastise the boy when he was stealing. Then he, at the end, became a murderer. So he committed a murder. Then when he was to be hanged, so the government men inquired, "What is your last wish?" "Now, I want to speak with my aunt through the ear." Then he was allowed. And the aunt was generally crying that "My nephew is going to be hanged." She was... So he caught up her ear with the teeth and cut it. So he said, "My dear aunt, if you would have chastised me in the beginning, then today, this position, that you are crying and I am going to be hanged, this would not have happened. But you did not do that. Therefore you are uselessly crying now, and this is your punishment: I cut off your ear with the teeth." A very good instruction.
So I inquired through my servant, "Why this young woman is beating her child?" Now, then the servant brought me the news that this boy gave paraṭā to his elder brother who is suffering from typhoid. The typhoid... In typhoid fever, solid food is forbidden strictly, but the boy did not know. He asked his younger brother that "If you steal one paraṭā and if you give me, I am very much hungry." So he became very sympathetic to his brother, and he gave the paraṭā. And the boy was ill; he aggravated the illness. So as soon as the mother heard that he gave a paraṭā to him, he (she) began to beat: "Why did you give?" Now, it was charity, it was affection and sympathetic, but the result was beating with shoes. So if we do not know where charity should be given, then, where affection should be there, then we are under the laws of nature; we shall be punished if it is not properly done. There is punishment.
That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. Because we are greedy... Just like a greedy man, he is suffering by eating more. There are so many diseases, just like diabetes or dysentery. There are so many things. These are the diseases for eating more. That's all. So we are suffering; at the same time, we are eating more. Because we are greedy, we are lusty. This is the cause. So therefore kāmād... We are serving. We are serving our lust, our greediness, and suffering. This is practical. If you have no hunger, if you eat... If you have no appetite, if you eat, then you suffer. If you infect some disease, you'll suffer. That is practical. So we are associating in, being infected by lust, greediness, illusion, fearfulness, so many things. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat (SB 7.5.5). If you steal, then you will be under fearfulness: "Oh, I may not be arrested; I may be arrested." Because you have done that, asad-grahat, you have done something wrong, therefore you are under the influence of fearfulness. It is very easy to understand.
So you can give up this impious activities provided you are engaged fully in devotional service. Otherwise it is not possible. Simply by moral instruction, that "Stealing is very bad. Don't steal," nobody likes it. Nobody likes it. It is practical. One man has stolen, and he's arrested and he's going to the police custody. So everyone has seen, and he has heard also that the government says that if you steal, you'll be punished. In the Bible or in any other religious scripture it is said that stealing is not good. So he has heard it, and he has seen it that a man who has stolen, he is going to jail. So these two things are experienced: hearing and seeing. In spite of all his experience, why does he steal? Because he has no good association. He knows that stealing is bad; otherwise why he steals at night? Nobody can see. He knows he is doing some bad thing. But why he cannot give up that bad thing? Because he's not associating with good person. That is it.
So in order to become nirmama... Because here, material world, we are simply fighting, "It is mine, mine." The Arabians, they are, "This oil tank, this oil deposit is mine." Or "our." The same thing, individually or collectively. You just make up a gang, and you steal something, and then you say, "It is our." Your possession is by stealing, but still, you are claiming, "It is our." So the petrol tank belongs to God, but some way or other, they are in possession. They fighting it, "It is our." So this is called mama. So one has to become nirmama. "It is not mine. It is Kṛṣṇa's." Immediately you become nirmama. Everything is bondage so long you claim, "It is mine." And as soon as you understand, "It is not mine; it is Kṛṣṇa's," then you are free. This is the difference of bondage and freedom. Actually, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Everything. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1).
Kṛṣṇa says. So we have learned from Kṛṣṇa. So we test. What is the test? Na māṁ prapadyante. He does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So such person, what he is? Now, duṣkṛtina, sinful. Meritorious sinful, that when merit is applied for sinful activities, you can do it very nicely than the ordinary man. A scientist discovers some method of stealing, how to break the treasury of the bank. So that does not mean... Because he is doing scientifically, stealing, that does not mean he is not a thief. He is a thief. How you can say, "Oh, he has done it very scientifically"? (laughing) The law will say, "You are rascal. You are thief. You must be punished." So these so-called educated scientists, philosophers, what they are doing? They are simply doing mischief. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina. Mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal. Ass. Because nobody knows what is the aim of life. They're exactly like the ass. He does not know what is his interest. Unnecessarily he is carrying three tons of cloth of the washerman. Therefore he is called ass. His gain is a little morsel of grass. He can get grass anywhere. Still, he is thinking, "I am obliged to this washerman. Because he is supplying me grass, therefore I must have three tons of cloth on my back." This is ass. This is ass. He has no interest. Not a single cloth belongs to him, and he is carrying, oh, three tons of cloth. Therefore the ass. Ass means one who does not do know his interest, and he works unnecessarily and wastes his time.
Not very many years ago, say about hundred years ago, in India the native states, the rule was that if something is lying on the streets, valuable or invaluable, so nobody should touch it. The person who has lost or who has left that thing there, he would come and pick it up. You cannot touch. That was the law. And if one was caught, a thief, his hands will be cut off. In Kashmir state this was the rule. As soon as a thief is arrested and if he's proved that he has stolen, the only punishment is cut his throat, aḥ, cut his hands. Bas. Exemplary punishment so that nobody will dare to steal. So this is second class, administrators. And the third class are to produce money—businessmen, mercantile. Money is also required. So without money nothing can be done, so that is not... But that is the occupation of..., the third class take. And the fourth class, śūdra. They cannot take any post as intelligent class or administrator class or money-producing class. They are simply servant, help others, śūdra. The śūdra was not meant for taking the political part.
You are by force occupying other's kingdom, and you have no right. But because you are strong, or some way or other, you have got the opportunity, and you are conquering country after country, country after... So I am also doing the same thing. So what is the difference between you and me?" So Alexander considered that "Yes, I am nothing but a big thief, that's all." So he released him, "Yes, I am no better than you." Just like dacoits. Nowadays there are many thieves who steal scientifically, legally. There are many lawyers, many scientists. They do harm, but legally. Legal murderer, legal cheaters, so many things. We have got experience, every one of us. If you can protect yourself under the cover of law and you cheat others, then it is nice. But you cannot cheat the supervision of the Supreme. That you cannot do. A thief may steal secretly, but there is no secret.
Arakṣyamāṇāḥ striya urvi bālān. According to Vedic culture, first protection—to the cows, to the women, to the brāhmaṇas, to the children, and to the old man. This is the first business of the government, to give protection. Practically, there is no criminal charge against them—against a brāhmaṇa, against a woman, a child. Suppose a child steals something. Who is going to prosecute him? It is not taken very seriously. So they require protection. They should not be given freedom. Like a child, he is not given freedom, similarly freedom... Of course, there is. Protection means to some extent no freedom. If I want to protect the child, then I sometimes say, "Don't do this." That is one of the items of the protection.
This is confirmed in the Upaniṣad. Two birds are sitting on the same tree as friends. One is eating the fruit, one is simply observing. Anumantā. That is stated in the Bhag... Upadraṣṭā anumantā. Anumantā. Anumantā means you cannot touch any fruit of this world without the sanction of the Supersoul. Therefore He is anumantā. If you say, "Then if He is giving me sanction for any action, then how I am responsible?" No. He is not giving. Because you are insisting, therefore He says, "All right, do it, at your risk." He is insisting, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "Simply surrender." He is insisting that. But you are insisting in a different way: "I want to steal, I want to this, I want to this." But Kṛṣṇa knows everything, that "This rascal will do. All right, do it at your risk." Anumantā upadraṣṭā. And He remains witness: "Because you have done this, now you suffer. Now you suffer."
Just like Yaśodā-mā saw within the mouth of the whole universe. (sic) So Kṛṣṇa can take everything. But He does not take. Because He is appeared to educate us. Therefore He is giving very importance, cow-keeping tending the cows. Personally. Personally taking, protect cows. He is stealing butter, showing us that "These things should be stolen. If you have no money, then you steal and eat." (laughter) You see? These things are eatables. You see. Produce huge quantity of milk, and make so many preparation out of it, and become happy. This is the instruction Kṛṣṇa is giving. Otherwise what Kṛṣṇa business, He has got to do some such business? No. He is teaching us. Even the urine in cow is valuable. Stool of cow is valuable. Kṛṣṇa in His..., while He is crawling on the yard, He captures the tail of a calf and he drags him, and he is smeared with all stools and urine of the cows. Kṛṣṇa enjoys. He is showing that even the stool and urine of cow is valuable, what to speak of its milk. Cow is so important.
Australia. Yes. There are so many societies, vegetarian societies, nondrinking societies. That is nice, but they cannot stay. By forming ordinary society or imposing some law by the state, you cannot stop. You have many laws to stop stealing, still there are thieves. That is not possible. You have so many laws not to do something. But because everyone is under the grip of prakṛti, material nature, how he can change? It is not possible. So that is the mistake of the modern civilization. They do not know that by passing laws or giving some moral instruction, we cannot change the habits. Prakṛti is very strong, material nature. The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one comes to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform, he cannot give up his habits. It is not possible. So if you want to Therefore it is purificatory process. The more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become purified from all this influence of māyā, because it is acting by māyayā bahu-rūpayā. And as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if you have got a different form, a different bodily form, because you are aloof from that, your, you are not affected by the influence of māyā.
You eat even stool. Because you had no discrimination in eating, the "All right, you can now eat..." the pig's body, hog's body you get, and eat even up to stool. That opportunity is given. And you have sex life with your mother and sister. You see hog's life. They have no sex discrimination. They do not discriminate, "It is..., she is my mother," or "She is my sister." No. So this is hog's life. Therefore śāstra says that "Don't be foolish to lead a life like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). The material civilization should not be like that. What is that? Now, simply for sense gratification. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān. That sense gratification is also not very easy. People are working so hard. They are stealing even, risking life. So many things they are... This is not very easygoing life. Kaṣṭān kāmān. Everything is studied by śāstra. Arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This kind of life is meant for the hogs.
Veṇa, yes. Out of the body of Veṇa. Niṣāda. So they became thieves. They were, professionally, they became thieves, and they were asked to live in the jungle. So we have got practical experience. So these junglese, they are very much accustomed, however you keep them nicely, they will steal. Niṣāda. Is it not? (laughs) We have got very practical experience. We are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and we have got experiences, different types of men. So they can also be delivered. How? Yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ, if they associate with sādhu. Yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ means if they are given the chance of associating with devotees, they can be delivered.
So we are trying to enjoy. Enjoyment is our business. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānanda, Kṛṣṇa is ānandamaya, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are also ānandamaya. But we are seeking ānanda in different atmosphere. Just like any man can become very honest citizen, do business honestly, earn money and live very honorably. But no, somebody has learned how to steal. The government does not say that you becomes thief and go to the prison house. The government does not say. But you have selected to become a thief. That is it because we have got little independence, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent; therefore we have got the quality of independence. But because we are very small, minute particle we have got minute particle of independence. Minute... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea.
Even in our country a big man like Mahatma Gandhi, he sacrificed everything—his family, his profession. And many other leaders... But what for they were working? They were working for some material benefits, that's all, not for any spiritual benefit. So that is not transcendental activities. That is material activities, expanded material thoughts. Somebody is working for his family or somebody is working for himself, like animals, the cats and dogs. They work for himself. And human being, they're little advanced. They work for family, for wife, children, or, further extended, for society, for community, for nation. You can expand. Even international. They are all material activities, nimittā, simply expanded, expanded. Suppose if you steal for yourself and if you steal for your family or if you steal for your community, that stealing is there. Because you are stealing for greater family, that does not mean that you are not a thief.
So sac-cid-ānanda. The Brahman realization is sat realization, Paramātmā realization is cit realization, and Bhagavān realization means ānanda realization. Sat, cit, ānanda. And in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that the Absolute Truth is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānandamaya. He's always ānandamaya. You read Kṛṣṇa's līlā—He's always full of transcendental bliss, especially in Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana, that is His original residence. There, simply ānanda. Kṛṣṇa is playing with His cowherds boys friends. Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. Kṛṣṇa is stealing Mother Yaśodā's butter. Kṛṣṇa is doing... All ānanda, transcendental bliss.
The question is asked, "Why Kṛṣṇa created this material energy which is so miserable condition?" Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). So it is not Kṛṣṇa willingly created. But He gave the chance to the living entities who forgot Kṛṣṇa. He forgot Kṛṣṇa's service and wanted to enjoy this material world. Indriya-tarpaṇa(?) Indriya-prītaye. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Here they are doing just against the law, kurute vikarma. Karma, vikarma, and akarma. So we have very good experience, especially in big, big cities. People, just to get money they are doing so many unlawful activities, vikarma. That is vikarma. They know that "If I do this, it is punishable by law," but still, for getting money they do that. That is the nature of this material world. For sense gratification one can do anything, risking life also. The thief is stealing stealthily, hiding and risking life to get some money. Why money? The money will supply his sense gratification.
Complete knowledge is one who understands that "If I have got so many propensities, so the origin of me, the supreme father, why He should be without any propensities? What is this logic?" "Like father, like son." It is... The son has got so many propensities. Wherefrom it has come? It must be in Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. Everything is there is Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter. That means Kṛṣṇa has stealing propensity. But the difference is that Kṛṣṇa's stealing butter is worshiped, and my stealing is beaten with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. So we should not imitate Kṛṣṇa, but we should understand that janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) everything... Here it is said, bījam ādhatta. So just like father impregnates the child or the son within the womb of the mother, and he comes, "Like father, like son," generally, similarly, we are. We have got the same propensities, vīryam, but it is being misused in the material connection. Therefore we are not getting pleasure. Otherwise, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) All these propensities, varieties of qualities, will give us ānanda.
Those who are actually learned, actually advanced, such persons-budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ, bhajante mām. That is perfection of life. So take this opportunity, human life. Don't miss. You may be very proud of your intelligence, but this intelligence is not very good intelligence if you are devoid of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you are a mūḍha. If, by your intelligence, you learn how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and worship Him with bhāva, that is real intelligence. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). And if you try to become intelligent, some tricks, material trick, to get some money or cheat others, that is not very good intelligence. These cats and dogs that... They have also such intelligence. How to steal food from the room, the cat knows very well. So that is not intelligence. That intelligence can be found, even birds, beasts, everywhere. Real intelligence is how to regain your Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be promoted to the stage of bhāva, and at the time of death maintain that bhāva, and then your life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9).
So in this way, when they returned home, one day the old man, before his wife and son, said, "My dear son, my dear wife, this girl should be offered to that young man." He was same village. "What is this? How this daughter can be offered to such poor man? He's not very educated." The old man said: "No, it doesn't matter. I have promised." The boy, his eldest son, said, "No, no, it cannot be." And the wife said that "If you give my daughter to that boy, then I shall commit suicide." He was perplexed. Now what to do? So he was thinking and praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Sir, I have promised before You. You kindly help me so that they may not commit suicide and I may also offer my daughter to that boy. You have to arrange for that." And Kṛṣṇa has got such contradictory duties. He has to protect the thief, as well as the man where theft is being done. You see. Because everyone is praying, "Sir, my things may not be stolen." And the thief is also praying, "Please give me some opportunity so that I can steal." And Kṛṣṇa has to satisfy both.
The same thing. If you do not know how to love, then your love may produce bad result. Just like the same example. The boy, the younger boy thought that "I am loving my elder brother," and he supplied some biscuit, which was forbidden by the physician. And as soon as the mother heard that he has supplied him biscuit, he began to beat him like anything. Punishment. He thought, "It is very good service. He's in want of, in need of biscuit. So I am supplying him, stealing from the store. Mother will not know. So I am doing very good service." But the result was beating. Similarly, we may think something that it is divine, but who is judging that this is divine or not divine? Therefore you have to learn how to serve divinely, then you can serve. Without knowing, you cannot. That will be disastrous. Everything requires expert knowledge; otherwise it will be disastrous.
That's all. But that will not help us. Just like there are thieves. There were some thieves. They have got very organized system of stealing. Very educated man, scientist, they can enter into the bank safety room. With scientific method, they can open the chest, treasury, and take, at a time, millions of dollars away. And there is another kind of thief, they simply pickpocket or burglar when they get opportunity, take away some goods from your house. In Hindi, it is called hīrā and kṣīrā. Somebody is stealing kṣīrā. Kṣīrā means cucumber. Just like we saw on the street. In so many houses, there are so many fruits, apples. If we like, we can take it. But if we take it beyond the fence of that private house, it is criminal. It is criminal. If you take one apple, it, it has no cost here practically. And somebody's stealing from your box hīrā. Hīrā means diamond. But if these two classes of thieves are arrested, according to law, they are punishable for six months imprisonment. The man cannot say, who has stolen one apple, "Oh, what is the price of this apple, sir? I have taken one apple. Why you are putting me into jail?" But law is there. Even it is apple, it has no value, because you have stolen, it is the property of a private person, so, as you have stolen, therefore you are punished. And similarly, another thief, who has stolen a diamond worth ten millions dollars, he's also punished. Because both of them are thieves. You cannot say that "I am thief, certainly, but I have taken which is practically has no worth."
Similarly, if you become a advanced, civilized man simply to make a gorgeous scheme, bahvārambhe, of this eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, you remain animal. These, these things they cannot understand. This rascal civilization, they think this is advancement of civilization. They cannot think that with this advancement of civilization of industry, big, big cities, electric light, big, big road, motorcars and... But what is the basic principle? The basic principle is eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Just like the basic principle being stealing, you are thieves. Either you are expert thief for stealing diamonds or you are not expert, but you can steal one apple or one peach, both of you are thieves. So you are punishable. You are punished. The gorgeous thief, scientifically stealing from the bank millions of dollars, he cannot say that "I am advanced thief. I am very civilized way, take. I take, at a time, millions of dollars. Therefore, my stealing is advancement of civilization." These rascals, they cannot understand this. Therefore we call all of them rascals. They may say that "We are so much advanced. You are crazy." Yes, but just see. The law is either you are advanced thief, or you are a crude thief, you are thief, and as soon as you are thief, you are punishable. This is the process.
So if one is inquisitive to know what is the ultimate goal of life, for him, a guru is required. But if he wants immediate some sense gratification, he doesn't require a guru. For sense gratification there is no need of guru. Even these birds and beasts, they know how to gratify senses. There is no need of university or teacher. Say for sex life, nobody requires to go to the university. They know. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These four things, there is no need of university education. But at the present moment to go to university means how to gratify the senses very scientifically. Scientifically. How to steal scientifically. Does it require any scientific knowledge how to cut throat and how to steal? No. They require education for spiritual understanding, tad-vijñānārtham, not this vijñānārtham, this material knowledge. It doesn't require. It is simply a waste of time. This modern university education is simply a waste of time.
Because before starting this movement I wanted some boys from respectable family, that "Give me your one son. I shall train him how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become preacher." Nobody gave me. They said, "Swamiji, what they will be by becom..." Because they have seen the so-called brāhmaṇa begging, no education, and if there is no begging, then stealing, then cheating. So a gentleman sees that "This is brāhmaṇa in the society." You will find in Vṛndāvana so-called brāhmaṇa, paṇḍita, paṇḍas—no education, and they do everything. It is known to everyone. So because there is no training... Paṇḍas, they were guiding the tourists or the visitors. They were trained up brāhmaṇa, paṇḍitas. Now practically higher section of the society, they do not come. One gentleman asked me in Delhi in the beginning that "Swamiji, why you have made Vṛndāvana as your headquarters?" Because they have got a very bad experience. So even the Vṛndāvana city, you see how they are neglected. We are a little far off from the city. You go. How they are neglected city, no up-to-date gentlemen can go there because the culture is lost. And from big, big Gosvāmīs' family they are becoming rogues and thieves because training is not there, training, the first-class man to train them.
So people, they know that "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows. So similarly, we are hearing from the śāstra that "If you commit this sin..." Just like māṁsa. Māṁsa, this very thing, means, māṁ sa khadati. Therefore flesh is called māṁsa. "The animal which I am killing, he will have the right to kill me and eat me." That is going on, repetition: "I kill you this life. Next life you kill me. In this life you have become a cow or goat. Next time I'll become a cow or goat. You have the right to kill me." This is called karma-bandhana.
Automatically he commits the same sin, vivaśa. Prāyaścittam atho katham. Then, if he remains always a victim to the sinful reaction and if he is habituated to do that, so artificially this kind of confession in the church or giving some bribe to the bhaṭṭācārya, what is the meaning of this? It is practical question. If the man is habituated to commit sinful activities throughout the whole week, what is the use of his going to the church and confessing and give some bribe or... You take in any, any field. So it is very intelligent question. There is practically no use. If you remain a thief always, so for your theft you are put into the prison, and as soon as you get out of the prison again you commit theft. He knows that "I shall be again put into the prison." Still, he commits the same thing. Actually there are many thieves. At least in India I have seen. Their business is stealing, and they are put into the jail, and as soon as he comes out, again commits the same thing and put into the jail for many days.
So this Carvaka Muni was an atheistic philosopher. His philosophy was that so long you... Now that philosophy is being followed at the present moment, that "You don't care for sinful activities, there is no life, and after finishing this body, everything is finished; enjoy life as you like." This is going on. That is Carvaka's philosophy. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. He said that "You enjoy life by eating as much as quantity as you can provide ghee." Because Indian philosophy means if you can eat... Just like in Western countries, if you can eat meat you think that "I am very much fortunate." Similarly, in India still, in villages also, they think that "If we can eat more ghee then we are very fortunate." (laughter) So ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. So "Beg, borrow, steal, eat ghee." Eat ghee, because so long you live, you'll live very sumptuously eating ghee and become fatty. That's all. (laughter) So ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. Live very happily. And then if you say that "I have no money. If I borrow from friends ghee, then I'll have to pay...," because these are the injunctions in the śāstras. But he is atheistic. He says, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet.
So Parīkṣit Mahārāja says that dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyaṁ yat pāpaṁ jānann apy ātmano 'hitaṁ (SB 6.1.9). A person knows that this is not good for him. For example a thief. A thief knows that stealing is not good. It is against law, and against our revealed scriptures also. No religious book or scriptures will say that "You go on stealing." No. Neither the state laws also allows stealing. A man knows. And suppose he's stolen in the past and he was punished or he sees that one who has stolen property, he is arrested by the police and he's being taken into custody. He has seen it, he has heard it. We experience. We gather our knowledge by seeing and by hearing. So both things he has done, but still he is stealing. Why? This is the question. So suppose if I knowingly do something and I make atonement and again I do it. Or a disease. I know that if I attack this infection I'll suffer, still I, ah, become infected, and again I suffer. Again I go to the physician, he gives me medicine, again I'm cured, again disease. This is going on. Why this is? He has got experience, and still he has experienced, he has seen, he has heard, he has full knowledge that "This kind of sinful activity will be fruitful in this way, and I'll have to suffer."
We get experience by two methods, by seeing and by hearing. Just like a criminal, thief, he has seen that previously a man who stole, he was arrested by the police and punished and he has heard also from authorities, from lawyers, that "Stealing is bad. If you are arrested you will be put into the prison." So this is the defect of the modern civilization. They are enacting so many laws to stop criminal but the criminality is increasing. The practical example is, when you go to the airport there is security checking. So all gentlemen, whoever he may be—sometimes they excuse me—but they are checked thoroughly. So the authorities check everyone means that everyone is dishonest. So what is the value of this education if everyone is criminal and dishonest? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is intelligent devotee. He therefore protested against this so-called atonement. Therefore he describes like this, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ janānn apy ātmano 'hitam (SB 6.1.9). Everyone knows that "I am stealing; it is not good for me," but even though he is put into the jail as prāyaścitta, again he comes back and does the same thing.
Everyone knows. Nobody can say that "I do not know that is sinful activities." Who does not know that stealing is sinful, committing murder is sinful, or so many other things? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquires that dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ jānann apy ātmano 'hitam (SB 6.1.9). "And he knows that 'It is not good for me; if I steal I'll be arrested, I'll be punished, I'll be put into jail. That is not a very comfortable life.' He knows that." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. "But he commits again and again, vivaśaḥ, as if forced by something, forced by something." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ prāyaścittam atho katham (SB 6.1.9).
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to purify the designation. And so long we are in the darkness of this designation, that "I am this," "I am that," "I am this," "I am that," that is ignorance. Suppose a thief—he is thinking that "If I do not steal, I cannot exist. I'll die. So I cannot stop stealing. I must go on." So this is ignorance. But if he thinks over that "The cats and dogs and the birds and beasts, they are very nicely eating. They are not stealing anyone's... Whatever he gets by the grace of God, he is happy," this is knowledge. Vimarśanam. Vimarśanam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything God's property. And we are all part and parcel, sons of God, so the property is for us. It is not for others. Just like father's property is meant for the son's enjoyment. That's a fact. So "If other sons, without any labor, without any endeavor, they can get their food, why I am stealing?" This is knowledge. This is knowledge. "Why I shall steal? There is enough food." But because I haven't got this knowledge that "God is the proprietor. I am His part and parcel, son. So if He has provided food for the elephant, who eats at a time forty kilos, he can eat, and I eat only, say, half a pound, I cannot eat?" This is knowledge. "Why shall I steal? I shall depend on God." This is knowledge. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.
So "If so many, 8,300,000 forms of life, they can get without stealing, why shall I steal?" This is knowledge. Prāyaścitta vimarśanam. As soon as he becomes in quite perfect knowledge, then whole problem solved.
So this is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. If we take seriously, then there is no problem. Otherwise the problems will go on, and the so-called rascal scientists will give up bluff that "We are making solution of all problem." It is never solved. It will never be solved in the future also, unless we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a fact. If you like, you can take it; otherwise suffer.
Relative truth is the effect of the Absolute Truth. But He's Absolute Truth. He's the supreme cause, and everything is effect. Cause of all causes. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). Satya-śaucābhyām and... How these things can be executed? Yamena niyamena vā. Yama-niyama. The practice of yoga is based on this principle of yama-niyama, regulating, controlling, regulating. Regulation cannot be executed without control. Therefore yamena niyamena vā. These are the process. If you want to elevate... Our topics began... The people are suffering. Although one knows that "This is not good, what I am doing," he has heard, he has seen also the effect of it... The same example: A man who has stolen some property, he's arrested. And he knew it, that "If I steal, I'll be punished." But he has done it, the same thing. He knew it. He heard it from the police courts, that stealing is not good. He knew it. He heard it from authorities. Still he has done it. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja's question is, "What is this atonement?" If he, although knowing and hearing, completely in knowledge, still he's forced to do something, to steal, or to something criminal, what then is the use of putting him into the jail and atonement? He'll come again and again do the same thing.
Therefore he's saying that actually atonement is knowledge. "Why I am stealing? What is the use?" Vimarśanam, prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Vimarśanam means to be thoughtful. Without being thoughtful, philosopher, how one can understand, what is his position? Thoughtful. And that thoughtfulness comprehends so many things. Tapasā. One has to learn it by tapasya. Just like if one wants to pass M.A. examination, then he has to go school, follow the principle of the schools, college, study, and take some pains. Then gradually he'll come a passed M.A. student. And if he plays all the day on the street, how he can...? That is not possible. Therefore the process is being explained by Śukadeva Gosvāmī: tapasā. First thing is tapasya, austerity. Even it is painful... Austerity's painful. Brahmacarya is painful. Because we want, unrestricted, to do everything. But no. As soon as it is regulated it appears to be painful. When it is practiced, it is not painful. One brahmacārī in Indian city, in severe cold, he was sleeping in the open air, without any covering. And it was severe cold. But it was practice. During Māgha-melā, many saintly persons come there on the bank of the Gaṅgā, Ganges. This year we had our own camp; we have seen. The whole night they are sitting in the open air, without any covering.
So in order to become free from this criminality, there are so many prescriptions in the śāstras. They're called tapasya. The beginning is the tapasya. Tapasya means just like a thief wants to steal others' property, but if he thinks at the same time, "No, no, it will be criminal. Father has said it is criminal. I shall not steal others' property," this is tapasya. Because I have got the inclination to steal, to usurp other things, but if I restrain myself by the order of father or the śāstras, the laws... Just like a thief. He knows that if he steals, if he takes others' property, he'll be arrested and he will be punished. But he has got that bad inclination. That is called pāpa-bīja. The śāstras, they prescribe different types of atonement for person who has committed criminal activity. The criminal activities is that if you encroach upon others' property, others' right, that is criminal. Tena tyaktena... You should be satisfied whatever Kṛṣṇa has allotted to you.
Well-behaved life... Sadācāraḥ and durācāraḥ. Sadācāraḥ means those who are following the regulative principles, they are called sadācāraḥ. And those who are not following the regulative principles, they are called durācāraḥ. So here it is said that dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Being contaminated by the association of the prostitute, he lost his life of well behavior. And what is that? How did he lose his well behavior? Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. He accepted the profession of cheating, gambling. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś. Stealing, cauryaiḥ, and garhitāṁ vṛttim. Those are condemned profession. Now these condemned professions have become ordinary profession in the civilized society, but according to the Vedic civilization, these things are condemned things. Cheating or gambling, cheating and speaking lie, bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś. And stealing. These are condemned profession. But he adopted all these things because he was associated with a woman for illicit sex.
When a man falls down, then he lives by this profession. What are these? Bandy-akṣaiḥ: gambling, cheating, and stealing. All these abominable activities they adopt. And he does not think that "I am doing something bad because I have no other means to maintain my family." He gives the reason that "What can I do? I have to maintain my family, so somehow or other I must get money." So there is a practical example in Patna high-court. I do not wish to name, but there was a big high-court judge. He was taking bribe, and he was detected one day. When he was just to deliver one judgment, the chief judge called him and he asked him that "You immediately resign on health condition and go away." But when his friends asked him that "Why you were doing so?" he replied that "I have got expenditure, ten thousand rupees per month, and I get only four thousand. What can I do?" So the... (the door opens) (aside:) Come on. Just see practically. Even a high-court judge, because he has to spend more than his income, he adopted these vile means of living. The trend of modern civilization is like that. They unnecessarily increase their expenditure and adopt these all vile means. (Hindi) So your party is ready? (Hindi) So you can go with him. Yes. (Hindi) (end)
So this is very important point, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says. This is authority, that naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. As soon as there will be contamination of illicit sex life, he will be bereft of all good character, this basic principle. And the whole world is now encouraged in that way. So how we can expect good character from the modern man? There is no possibility, if we accept this statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. So Ajāmila, being contaminated by that illicit sex life with a prostitute, he lost all his brahminical qualifications and gradually he was in need of money. Just like the other day I gave you the instance of a big high-court judge, because he was also of that type. I know his private character. He was most debauched and therefore he wanted money, ten thousand rupees per month. And in spite of his position as a high-court judge and getting four thousand, five thousand salary, he could not check from his falldown. So this is natural. If you indulge in illicit sex life and naturally other things, intoxication, gambling, then there will be no limit of expenditure. And to meet all those expenditure one has to adopt cheating or stealing. These processes has to be.
But... (Hindi) So by any means money wanted. So he adopted all disrespectful profession—cheating, gambling and stealing, any way to live.
- bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair
- garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ
- bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir
- yātayām āsa dehinaḥ
- (SB 6.1.22)
The only attraction is family, kuṭumba. So for the sake of maintaining family, he was committing all kinds of sinful activities.
That is stated here. In one place his character is described, that he used to live by cheating, by stealing, by gambling. This was his life's profession. But still, he was very much affectionate to the child, the youngest child.
- sa baddha-hṛdayas tasminn
- arbhake kala-bhāṣiṇi
- nirīkṣamāṇas tal-līlāṁ
- mumude jaraṭho bhṛśam
Jaraṭhaḥ vṛddhaḥ. So although he was very old, still he was enjoying the child's play, pastimes, the same thing. Just like Mahārāja Nanda and Yaśodā were enjoying the childish pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa, the same thing is pervertedly reflected in this material world. Father's affection, child's activities. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, the same thing you'll find in the transcendental world. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot adjust.
But here Bhāgavata says, naṣṭa-sadācāra. As soon as... How? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ: "Because he is attached with a prostitute, he has lost all his qualifications." At the present moment to become attached to a prostitute is no fault. The society accepts: "Oh, that's all... Young man goes to that." Does not mind. But he does not know that this association will make him fall down to the lowest stage of human life. And that is stated next, that he used to live on these principles—beg, borrow, steal and gambling—and he was degraded. And how he was degraded? That will be explained. So people do not take care of their śāstras. They make their own interpretation and therefore India's position is so fallen. They are guided. The great ṛṣis and great sages, they have given them guidance. Vyāsadeva has given guidance. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā. It is stated. "People are rascals, fools. In order to teach them nicely, this highest learned personality, Vyāsadeva, created the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." Lokasya ajānataḥ. Ajānataḥ means rascals who has no knowledge.
Anyway, so bandī. Bandī means now especially in the United States, nobody goes out at night. No gentleman goes out at night. In our Brooklyn temple nobody goes out at night. Just see. America is so advanced in civilization, and the result is that one cannot go on a street at night. In India it is so poverty-stricken. Still, even in villages, they are freely moving, man, woman, at dead of night. They know there is no danger. Still, although they are so poverty-stricken now... You will be surprised that in 1942 there was an artificial famine created by the government. People suffered starvation, and poor men, they died out of starvation. But there was no report of stealing. No report. One American gentleman went there, "If this is the condition in our country, there would have been revolution. And these people do not even steal others' properties, dying starvation." Lonely man is going. He will arrest him, "Give me whatever you have got. Otherwise I will kill you." So this is bandī.
The same thieves, cheater, everything were there at that time. It was rare incidences. But now it has become daily affair due to the Kali-yuga. So his business was kaitavaiḥ. Kaitavaiḥ means cheating. Cheating. Now what kind of cheating? The cheaters will round, surround one man, and he says, "Have you seen some gold lump falling down? I have seen. One is lost." Then another man will come, "Sir, I have got this gold lump. If you pay me something, I will give you." But that is not gold, actually, but he creates a situation that "Somebody lost his gold lump. Now he has got. He wants to sell me. All right, I give you ten rupees. Give me." (laughter) This is called kaitavaiḥ. I know some things. (laughter) So bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ, and then direct stealing.
So these kind of profession is garhitām, abominable. This is not human civilization. But this has become a common thing. Garhitāṁ vṛttim. Vṛttim means occupation. So if you become first-class man, you have occupation, that paṭhana-pāṭhana yajana. If you are second-class man, you have got your occupation. If you are third-class man, the kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. If you are fourth-class man, then serve other. If you are fifth-class man, then go to the jungle and hunt some animal and eat. Then these persons, they, cheating, stealing, these are the occupation of the tenth class, eighth class, like that. This is not honest. So if you produce such tenth-class and eighth-class and seventh-class men, then how you can expect without crime in the society? That is not possible. So we should know that this is the defect of civilization, that by education, by practice, by examples we are simply creating eighth-class, tenth-class of men, so there cannot be any peace. Therefore the human society must take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and teach people at least how to become second class, third class, if not first class. But there must be first-class men, second-class men. Then everything, social affair, political affair, will go very smoothly, without any trouble. Otherwise you have to meet with this class of profession, stealing, cheating, and so on.
In this way the next stage is, as soon as he lost all sadācāra, then his profession became bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. Bandy-akṣaiḥ. Just like it is very common thing, nowadays especially, that as soon as you find somebody solitary: "Yes, what you have got? Give me. Otherwise I shall kill you. Here is knife." This is called bandy-akṣaiḥ. Arrest somebody and take whatever he has got. This is called bandy-akṣaiḥ. And kaitavaiḥ, cheating: "I shall give you this. I shall..." There are so many cheating processes. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Cauryair garhitām. All these are condemned things. Vṛttim āsthitaḥ. He became situated in this profession for earning his livelihood. Because he lost sadācāra, he must be coming... You'll find this. As soon as there is no sadācāra, people will be addicted to all these means. Any way get money. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryair garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. Why? Now, bibhrat kuṭumbam. He is thinking that "I have to maintain my family, my children, so any way I must get money." So bibhrat kuṭumbam. Kuṭumbam aśuciḥ, unclean. This is unclean method, aśuci. And yatayām āsa dehinaḥ. And as soon as one takes all this profession, it means his business will be to give trouble to the all living entities. Yatayām āsa dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means one who has accepted this material body. So he will not hesitate to kill anyone because he is practiced to give pains and misery to other living entities, and what to speak of killing animals under the plea, "The animal has no soul"? This rascaldom will go on.
So his living condition was cheating and stealing and forcing others to snatch away some money. This was his living condition. So he was thinking, "I am very happy. I am begetting children..." Lālayānasya tat-sutān. Every year, one children, and getting money by cheating others, and living very peacefully. But the time factor was waiting, according to one's duration of life. So when aṣṭāśīti, eighty-eight years reached, his death was imminent. Kāla. Kāla means death. So he did not know that time and tide waits for no man. When time will come, death, then all this my paraphernalia will be taken away. I am very proud of my wealth, prestigious position, family, society. Everything is all right. But what about your death? Do you think that any day death will come and it will take everything, what you possess?
So the Ajāmila, young man, on account of association with a prostitute, he lost his good character and began to maintain the prostitute by stealing, by cheating, one after another. So by mistake or on account of the age, he became captivated by the prostitute. So Kṛṣṇa was watching. Therefore He gave him this chance that on account of his affection towards the child, he will at least repeat "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa." "Nārāyaṇa come. Nārāyaṇa take your food. Nārāyaṇa sit down." So bhāva-grāhi-janārdanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He takes the purpose or the essence. Because the holy name has its effect. So although this Ajāmila, by his foolishness, he was attached to the material body of the son, but because he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa," Kṛṣṇa was taking that essence, that's all, that "Some way or other, he is chanting." The importance of chanting is so nice. So do not give up chanting. Then Kṛṣṇa will protect you. This is the example. "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," you practice. Naturally, when you are in danger, you will say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." This much do. If you are practiced to do something, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you are safe.
Savitā, the sun, you, those who are initiated, so oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. That savitā, the sun, they (indistinct) from the sun. What is that? Yac-cakṣur eṣa, this is God's eyes. As soon as there is sunlight, you see everything. You cannot avoid His eyes. You think that "Nobody's here. Let me steal this." No. Immediately recorded. At night the moon is there. There are so many witnesses. And the Supreme Personality of Godhead is also witnessing within. So we cannot escape His witnessing. He's witnessing from inside, from outside. So how He's escape your sinful activities? No. That is not possible.
Then the animals, they are also working hard day and night for their necessities of life. But if an animal steals something from your house or takes some eatables, he is not punishable. India you will find in the bazaars. There is crowd, and the cows enter there, and they eat the vegetables to their heart's content. But he is not punishable. Still the cow is not punishable. But if a man takes one potato without the permission, he is punishable. So the animals are not punishable. All the lawbooks are meant for the men, for the human being, not for the animals. Just like in your country the police law is: "Keep to the right your car." But if a animal goes, keep to the left, it is not punishable. So everyone not punishable. Then again, human being, all of them, not punishable. Those who are criminals, those who have violated laws, they are punishable. So therefore this question is "Whether and how they are punishable? What is dharma, and what is adharma? So if you are representative of Yamarāja, then you explain to us first of all whether you are actually representative."
Mālatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the animals are not subject to the laws of the state, that if they steal something, they are not punished. But in our country, even if a person has a mouse in his house, a little mouse, he sets some trap and he kills him for stealing food.
Prabhupāda: That is not punishment. That is to stop the disturbance. By law... There is no such law that "When there is a rat in your house, you should catch it and kill it." Law does not say. Is there any law like that?
Mālatī: No.
Prabhupāda: Then that is another thing.
Mālatī: But this country had it into the laws.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, but sometimes... That depends on the person. Sometimes... Those who are pious persons, they know that these rats, they are also hungry and they should be given some food. That is the vision of the pious person. And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that in your house you should see not only to the welfare of your children. Even there is a lizard, there is a rat, even there is a snake, you should see how he is also comfortably situated. That is spiritual communism.
Well, the rats will be fed. Either you give or not, it will steal. So that is not the problem. But if you give them food, they will... Of course, that is Western philosophy, that because the animals are increasing, they should be killed. We Indians also, we have taken that view—because we cannot give protection to the cows, they must be sent to the slaughterhouse. That is the modern view. But that is not injunction of the Vedas. The Vedas says that everyone has right to live, every living entity. That is going on not only in consideration of the animals—even in human beings. Just like the Americans, they were all Europeans, and they entered this American land, killed so many Red Indians. So these kind of things are going on, but that does not mean that is the law. You killed so many Red Indians for your benefit, but you have to suffer for that. So that... This is going on in the human society, but that does not mean it is dharma. No. Dharma means you have to abide by the regulation given by the Vedas. You have to adjust things. Sometimes in Africa the man-eaters, they kill their grandfather, make a feast. The Russians also, they maintain such theory, that old men, they should be neglected. I have heard. I do not know. They become burden. But that is not Vedic injunction.
So one should have the sense that so long we shall go on accepting this material body, the sufferings will go on. We simply forget. So this awakening of consciousness is possible simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. It is so simple thing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then you'll understand. Ceto-darpaṇa. Suffering means there are so many dirty things within our heart. That is the cause of suffering. Just like a criminal: he has got the dirty things within the mind, that "If I get such and such things, I'll be happy." And he takes the risk of criminality at the risk of life. A burglar, a thief goes, he knows that "If I am captured, I'll be killed, I'll be punished, I'll be handed over to the police," and so on, so on, and still he goes and steals. Why? That is śāstra, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ: he has become mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Why he's taking so much risk? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītayā (SB 5.5.4), simply for sense gratification. That's all. Simply for sense gratification.
That's a fact. So if we want to come to the light... Because our qualification is, not only in this age, any living being who has accepted this material body, he is ajñaḥ; he is a rascal. He is a rascal, in ignorance, and he cannot control the senses. This is his qualification. Dehy ajño ajita-ṣaḍ-vargo. And on account of this ignorance and being unable to control the senses, then he unwillingly, he is being forced by nature to act sinful activities, unwillingly. Necchan. Necchan means unwilling. He doesn't like it. Just like even a thief: he is practiced to steal, so he knows that "I will be arrested again." He has had experience. He knows that "I will be again arrested, and I will go again to the jail, and will suffer there." But he is still forced to commit stealing again. A man suffering from venereal disease, he goes to the doctor, injection, so much painful. Still, he acts the same way. Necchan. Practice. "Habit is the..." What is called? "Second nature." So practice.
There are many important words in this verse, and it can be explained for a long time. The one word is that stambhayann ātmanā ātmānam. Just like a thief is going to steal. He also tries to control him: "I am going to steal. The after-effect will be that I will be arrested, and I will have to go to jail, and it is forbidden by śāstra and human laws also, state laws. So I am going to steal. There is risk." Actually there is risk. But this consciousness beats him, but he cannot control. This is the position. He cannot control. He knows everything, but still, he steals. The same thing happened here. Here it is said, na śaśāka samādhātum. He was a brāhmaṇa, learned brāhmaṇa. He knew that "I am being agitated by these sex desires. It is not good. It is not good." Yathā-śrutam. Śruta. Śruta means Vedic knowledge. He had sufficient education in Vedic knowledge. Yathā-śrutam and yāvat sattvam, as far he could control... Stambhayann ātmanā ātmānam. He tried to control the mind as far as intelligence concerned, but na śaśāka—he could not control. Na śaśāka samādhātum. Why? The mind was too much agitated. This is the point. This is the point, that his mind was too much agitated, madana-vepitam, by lusty desire. Lusty desire is very strong.
So this man, being attracted with the śūdrāṇī, naturally there was children. So he began to maintain them. This is natural affection. Even cats and dogs, they maintain their children. The birds also, they maintain their kiddies. So although children were born of śūdrāṇī, natural, there was affection. So he required money. But he became sinful; he could not earn money honestly. A sinful man cannot earn money honestly. Just like a thief: because he has adopted the means of earning money by sinful activities, he cannot take to honest work. He can work, but he is accustomed to steal. He knows that "This work is not good." If he is arrested, he will be punished. He has seen that one thief arrested and punished, and he has heard also that if one steals, he will be punished. And he has heard also from the śāstra, either law book or Vedic literature, that "Stealing is not good. It is punishable." But still, he does it. That means a sinful man cannot restrain himself from sinful activity. He has to do it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Unless you give up the particular situation with the modes of nature, it is not possible for him to restrain himself from committing sinful activities.
So this man is a rogue, he is sinful, but because still he has got children and wife, therefore he has to earn money. But because he is sinful, he cannot earn money honestly. Yatas tataś ca upaninye. Yena tena prakāreṇa: "Bring money. Somehow or other, bring money." Yatas tataś ca upaninye nyāyataḥ anyāyataḥ. Nyāyataḥ means legally, lawfully. Nyāya means law. Anyāyataḥ, "without legal..." Just like we can earn money by stealing, but that is anyāyataḥ. You cannot touch others' property. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam (ISO 1). This is Vedic instruction. Whatever you are allotted you can "A brāhmaṇa, you can earn like this. A kṣatriya, you can earn like this. A vaiśya, you can earn like this." But don't encroach upon others' property. But he became sinful, yena tena prakāreṇa. Nyāyataḥ anyāyataḥ. Nyāyataḥ is finished because he was a brāhmaṇa. No more he is brāhmaṇa. So anyāyataḥ, simply unlawfully. Anyāya. Why? Babhāra, maintaining, asyāḥ kuṭumbinyāḥ, the family members, wife and children. Kuṭumbaṁ manda-dhīr ayam. Manda-dhīḥ. Manda means very bad, very bad intelligence. In this way he began to earn his money and gradually he degraded and that will be described, how he became degraded.
So the assistants of Yamarāja charged that "This man was throughout his whole life a sinful man. Therefore he is punishable and we must take him to the Yamarāja." And the Viṣṇudūtas protested that "Even though he was sinful throughout his whole life, because he once uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṇa some way or other—it doesn't matter—therefore he is now free from all reaction of sinful life." And he has spoken that there are different kinds of sinful life, and he has described some of them. Stenaḥ. Stenaḥ means stealing, thieves, burglars. They are very sinful. Stenaḥ; surā-paḥ, drunkard, intoxicant, those who are addicted to intoxication. So stealing and drinking, these are the honorable occupations of the moralist. But they are condemned by the Yamarāja..., by the Viṣṇu... Stenaḥ surā-po mitra-dhruk (SB 6.2.9). One who is unfaithful to his friends, mitra-dhruk; brahma-hā, one who has killed a brāhmaṇa or a Vaiṣṇava, brahma-hā. And guru-talpa-gaḥ: and one who has dishonored a spiritual master or teacher. Strī-rāja-pitṛ-go-hantā, one who has killed a woman, one who has killed a king, and one who has killed a cow. These are all the severest type of sinful activities. Ye ca pātakino 'pare. Some of the sinful activities are mentioned here. And besides these sinful activities, there are other, many.
So yesterday we have explained that we are put into such position in this material world (pause) that we have to commit sinful activities. This is our position. Even if I do not want to do it. Just like a man accustomed to steal, he is dictated from within, "Don't steal." Otherwise why he goes at night to steal? He knows that "This is not good." He does not steal openly. Secretly, without any knowledge. Because he knows that "What I am going to do is not good." That's a fact. Therefore sometimes it is called black. So he is forced to do it.
Kṛṣṇa is manifest by His energy. So if we understand these things, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is nothing but Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. If everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, things belonging to a certain person, it must be utilized for Him. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that your property I can utilize for my benefit. That is stealing. That is cheating. So similarly, if we understand parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat, "Everything, whatever we see, it is distribution or manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy..."
Kuṭumba-rāmaḥ. Vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa-cetā vidvāṁś ca doṣaṁ para-vitta-hartuḥ. And being too much attached to money matters, even learned persons, even very, I mean to say, advanced intellectually, they also try to steal others money. Para-vitta. Although it is a fault. Although it is fault. Vitteṣu nityābhiniviṣṭa-cetā. Nitya, perpetually too much attached to money. Nityābhiniviṣṭa. Niviṣṭa means profoundly attached. Profoundly attached to money. Vidvāṁś ca doṣaṁ para-vitta-hartuḥ. Although to take other money or to steal others' money is a fault It is a fault not only to the law of the state, but it is a fault to the law of the Supreme God also. You can avoid the state law by stealing, but you cannot avoid the law of the Supreme Person. You see, He can see everywhere. You can steal very stealthily so that police constables or police force cannot see. You are think that "I am doing very nicely. Nobody can see me." But you cannot avoid the eyes of the Supreme. So doṣa, it is fault. Either in this world or in the next world, it is faulty. But we are so accustomed, we are so, I mean to say, profoundly attached to money that we take illegally others' money. Para-vitta-hartuḥ. Pretyeha vāthāpy ajitendriyas. Although we know that in this world it is faulty and also next world it is faulty, but because we have our senses uncontrolled, we cannot change. Aśānta kāmo harate kuṭumbī. And the main attraction is all these nonsense things are done simply being attached to the so-called society, friendship, and love. That's all.
So on account of this deep affection for maintaining family, everyone is risking life. The example is given here that taskaraḥ. There are many professional thieves, any country, India also. They are family men—not they are loafers—but their business is to steal. Their business is to steal. Why? They steal, they know it is risky,. He has heard it that "If you steal you'll be arrested, you'll be put into jail." Knowledge is gathered by hearing and by seeing. Hm? In Hindi it is called 'dekha śuna'-dekhavyair śunavyair, that "Have you seen or heard it?" That is experience. So thief knows he has heard it from lawbooks that stealing is not good, and from religious scripture also, that "It is sinful. Do not commit theft. Do not become criminal." But still he does, at the risk of ad At night he goes in the house of rich man and risk his life. Especially in Western countries, there is fire gun, and trespassers, even without permission, if anyone enters anyone's house, he can kill him. Is it not the law in your country? Trespassing? So there is risk of life, but he has entered the house for stealing. And why stealing? The family affection. That is the impetus for economic development. The Professor Marshall, the economist, he has given the definition, that "Wherefrom the economic development begins? By family affection." Or by sex attraction. So this earning money, there are so many smugglers, so many illicit businessmen, black market, they are risking their lives to get money. The purpose is when one becomes too much attached to family life and too much devoted to maintain it, he doesn't care. He has to earn money, some how or other, even risking life. Even risking life.
This philosophy can solve all the problems of the world. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever is given to you, you enjoy, what is allotted to you. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. Do not touch other's property. But we violate this law, therefore we suffer. So it is stated here, pretya iha, if we (indistinct) death. Unfortunately, the modern civilization is keeping people in so darkness that they have no idea that there is a life after death. Just like animal, "Let us enjoy, beg, borrow, steal and enjoy." No. That is not good. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No it is not good." Prahlāda Mahārāja... Everyone will say, those who are in knowledge. Yato ātmano ayam, kleśada. You can do whatever you like, but you'll get a body which may be more troublesome than the present body. In the present body we have got so many troubles, adhyātmika, adhidaivika, and if we do not work properly, then we shall get another body, more troublesome. More troublesome.
The other day I was giving the example that Kṛṣṇa is thief also. Mākhanaḥ-cora. And there is still in Remuṇā, Kṣiraḥ-cora. Kṣiraḥ-cora. He's famous, "The thief who stolen condensed milk." So this chori means stealing is there in Kṛṣṇa. Does it mean that it is bad? No. It is good. Because it is connected with Kṛṣṇa, it is good. Otherwise how people are worshiping a thief? And when it is used materially, when I steal something for my sense gratification, I am beaten with shoes. Then this is the distinction. Anything, bad or good, they are coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Ahaṁ-sarvasya prabhavaḥ: "I am the origin of everything." So anything coming from Kṛṣṇa, how it can be bad? It cannot be bad. Absolute. Kṛṣṇa says personally, and Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Absolute Truth is that from where everything is coming."
So you cannot be happy under the government of the śūdras. That is not possible. Must be tejaḥ. Government must be very, very powerful. Even, say, not more than hundred years ago, the Kashmir king was so powerful that there was no stealing in the state, on the whole state. There was no stealing. There was no thief. That is government. In the, at night I have to become concerned that thief may come, a burglar may come, so... That is not the government. One should lie down very freely: "The government is there." That is called tejaḥ, kṣatriya. Tejaḥ, then prabhāva, influence, and bala, bodily strength. Pauruṣa. Pauruṣa means one who has achieved many wonderful things. They are called pauruṣa. So nowadays there are many persons who are very... They have done so-called achievement. Just like this atom bomb. It is also atom bomb, but what for, this purpose? The purpose is to kill. That is not prabhāva. Prabhāva means to do good to others, influence. Prabhāva, pauruṣa and buddhi, intelligence. So buddhi means not how to cheat you. That is not buddhi. Buddhi means to know what is your problem of life and endeavor for solving this problem. This is called buddhi. Therefore bhakti-yoga is known as buddhi-yoga. Buddhi-yoga.
So there is a description of different features of the body of Nṛsiṁha-deva, description of the face, the ear, the mane and the nails, everything, very, very fearful. But the nails, the significant word is here—ari-bhit nakhāgrāt. Ari-bhit. Ari means enemy, and these nails are meant for piercing the chest of the enemy, not of the devotee. Ari-bhit nakhāgrāt. Everything is fierceful to the enemy, to the demons, but to the devotees they're all beautiful. They are pleasing. That is the difference between the Personality of Godhead and material personality. Everything... God is all-good. Even God appears in such fierceful attitude, it is beautiful to the devotees. God's stealing... This is abominable, stealing, in this material world. But in the spiritual world, that stealing by Kṛṣṇa is worshipable. Makhana-chora, butter thief. The devotees like that "Kṛṣṇa should come to my house and steal my things, butter." That is the pastime of Vṛndāvana-līlā. Kṛṣṇa would go to every house and steal butter, and they would be very much pleased that "Kṛṣṇa has come to steal here." They would come, a formally complaint lodged before Yaśodāmayī, and Kṛṣṇa would be afraid. But these things are very, very enjoyable.
So those who are duṣkṛtām or duṣkṛtināḥ... These words are used in the Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante (BG 7.15). So anyone who is in this material world, he is a duṣkṛti. Kṛti means very meritorious. Kṛti yasya sa jīvati. Meritorious, kṛti. But duṣkṛti. Here in this material world there are many, many persons, very meritorious, big, big philosophers, scientists, politicians, very meritorious. But their merit is being used for sinful activities. Just like a thief. He has got merit, but his merit is being used for stealing. So that is called duṣkṛti. And sukṛtina, just the opposite is sukṛtina. Sukṛti means one is acting or utilizing his merit for sukṛti. Sukṛti means the way by which one can approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti. This temple means to give chance to the people in general, ajñāta-sukṛti. Anyone who will come to this temple where the Deity is there, and even by imitating others, if one offers obeisances to the Lord, that is taken into account.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja clears, therefore, that baddhaḥ sva-karmabhiḥ: "It is not desired by You. I have created this situation." Baddhaḥ sva-karmabhiḥ. I have been put into this condition by my own work, sva-karmabhir. Baddhaḥ sva-karmabhir uśattama. You cannot overcome this resultant action of your karma. You must suffer. The same example: just like if you infect some contaminous disease, you must suffer, similarly, we are creating karma and we are suffering. Baddhaḥ sva-karmabhiḥ. My work. Śāstra does not say that you steal. Nobody says. Neither śāstra says, nor the moral codes say, nor the law, government law, say that "You can steal whatever you like." No. Everybody says... The government says, "Don't steal." The śāstra, scriptures, they also say, "Don't drink. Don't steal. Don't do this. Don't." All forbidden. But I steal. So that is sva-karmabhiḥ. There is forbidding everywhere, but still, I steal. Then whose fault it is? It is government's fault or my fault? If I kill, I'll be hanged. "Thou shall not kill." Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But if I kill, then I must suffer. But they say, give some false argument, "Lord Christ says, 'Thou shall not kill' and if I kill, Christ has taken the contract that whatever sinful activities we do, he will excuse." This is Christian document. They say that "Our Christ is so kind that whatever sinful activities we do, he will suffer for us." Is it not? This is Christian theory. Just see foolishness. "
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
If I want to love my son, if I accept Kṛṣṇa as my son... Just like Yaśodāmayī accepted. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but by devotional service, He agrees to become a son. Just like Yaśodāmayī and Nanda Mahārāja, in their previous lives they underwent severe austerities, and their aim was that "We shall have a son like God, like Kṛṣṇa." So after their performance of austerities for many thousands of years, when Kṛṣṇa appeared before them, "What benediction you want?" so they proposed that "We want a son like You. Then we enter into family life. Otherwise not." So Kṛṣṇa said that "Why shall I get a son like Me? I shall become your son." This is the fact. Therefore, although Kṛṣṇa took His birth as the son and, sons of Devakī and Vasudeva, immediately ordered Vasudeva to transfer Him to Vṛndāvana to Yaśodā. So the pleasure of having son was enjoyed by Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja, not Devakī and Vasudeva, although they really gave birth to... And when Kṛṣṇa was grown up, then went to His real father, Vasudeva, and Devakī. So actually Kṛṣṇa's crawling, Kṛṣṇa's disturbing the mother, Kṛṣṇa's stealing the butter, and so many things, as child does, reciprocates with the father and mother, parent, these līlā was demonstrated in Vṛndāvana, although Mother Yaśodā and Vasudeva, I mean to say, Nanda Mahārāja, they were foster father and mother.
Therefore the Avantīpura brāhmaṇa says that kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ: "My dear Lord, I have served my senses so abominably. I should not have served in that way. Still I have done." Just like sometimes we commit so many criminal activities to satisfy our senses, because we want money. So pālitā durnideśāḥ. My conscience says, "You don't do it." But, because I want to enjoy my senses, I must do it. I must do it. A thief knows that "If I steal, I, then I'll be punished." He has heard from śāstra, or he has known the state laws, that, if one commits theft, he's punished. He knows it. And he has seen it, that one man has stolen, or committed theft, he's arrested, taken by the police. He has seen it. But still he commits theft. Why? Why? Therefore it is a... That is my... I become habituated to serve the process of sense gratification in such low grade that what is not to be done, I still do it. Therefore he says, kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ, teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā. But anyone who serves for somebody, ask him: "Whether you are satisfied? I have served you so much." They'll never say. Just like... Take the example—I've given this example many times—that who can serve his country than Mahatma Gandhi better? Nobody. But still he was shot dead. Still he was shot dead. His service was not acknowledged, recognized. Otherwise how he shot dead? There are so many cases. So many cases.
So vikarma means against the law. The Vedic version, they give us that "You should work in this way." But if we do not act according to the Vedic injunctions, that is called vikarma. And we become subjected to sufferings, impious activities. But we do it because we are mad after sense gratification. We do not care. Just like a thief, he knows that by stealing he'll be punished, but still, because he's mad after stealing, he'll do it, taking the risk of being arrested and being harassed. Nūnaṁ prammattaḥ vikarma, nūnaṁ prammattaḥ kurute, yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. And they are mad after doing all this nonsense only for sense gratification. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, na sādhu manye, "This is not good." Yata ātmano 'yam. "As we have got this body, material body miserable..." Because as soon as you get a material body, you are put into the miserable condition of material nature. So we should not create another body so that we shall be put into, under tribulation again. That is intelligence.
Atonement. Yes. Atonement. So the example is given, just like a thief, he knows that stealing is not good. He has got experience that in the past he committed stealing, committed criminal offense by stealing, and he was arrested. Then he was punished. Still, he's stealing again. A man knows that stealing is not good. By ordinary law, stealing is punished, and in the scriptures also, stealing is prohibited because it is sinful. And one has seen that a person who is a thief was arrested and was punished. Everything he knows, but still, he commits stealing. Why? Therefore Bhāgavata says through Śukadeva Gosvāmī that prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Simply official prāyaścitta will not help a man ceasing from sinful activities. Official. In Christian religion also, they accept, confess their sinful activities, and again they commit the same sinful activities. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. Unless one understands his constitutional position, unless he's convinced that why should he commit sinful activities simply for this body, which does not belong to him... It is a foreign. Actually, he has no connection with the body. Vimarśanam means cultivation of knowledge. So one has to cultivate knowledge. Then he can be stopped from sinful activities.
You may be Muhammadan or Hindu, Muslim. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Please come and join with us, the Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. Actually, that has become successful. In Tompkins Square, I was sitting underneath a tree and chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra alone. And these young men, they used to assemble and dance also in the tune, for three hours—from two to five. In this way, we got our followers, associates. And gradually it developed into organization. So in the beginning we did not impose so many rules and regulations. There is no rules and regulations. First thing required: ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Unless one's heart is cleansed, he cannot accept rules and regulations. That is not possible. Cora nasane dharme khaiḥ (?). If, if a man is thief, and if you give him moral instruction, that "Stealing is very sinful; do not do it," he will not care for it. A butcher, if you advise him that "Animal killing is very bad. It is sinful," he'll not accept it. That is not possible. His heart should be cleansed. Prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam.
So that means the world as it is going on, it is a necessity. Do you think like that? This world, as it is going on, fighting one another, killing one another, stealing one's property and... Do you think that this order of things must go on? Just like the..., it is a proposal when everyone becomes honest, how the prison house will go on? It will be stopped. That's a great anxiety. Do you think the prison house, there is necessity that it will go on? That answer was given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that... Vāsudeva Datta proposed, "My dear Lord, You have come. You take all the sinful persons from this world. Let them be delivered, as You have personally come. So if You think they're so sinful, they cannot be taken back to home, back to Godhead, then I take all their sins. You take them only." That was his offer. Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava thinks like that, that he may remain in the hell, but by Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone may be delivered. That is real Vaiṣṇava.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Just like Churchill, he introduced that everyone should go and pray for victory. So England was also praying for victory, and Germany was also praying for victory. So (chuckles) God is perplexed. (laughter) The thief is praying to God that "This night, I may steal without any hindrances." And the householder is praying, "My Lord, thief may not come here and steal my goods." And God has to adjust everything. So just imagine how much busy is God. There are millions and trillions of living entities. Each one of them, if they are at all interested in God—not all—so they are praying. Everyone is praying, "God, give me this benediction. Give me this benediction." So this is not pure devotional service. For some material profit, one should not become a religious person or devotee of God. Of course, it is better than the person who is not at all interested in God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. Unless one is pious, he cannot approach God.
And as witness, as anumantā, as sanction-giver, I am thinking, "Oh, I..." Either you are playing or you are wanting some way. So Kṛṣṇa will give you all facility: "All right, you want? You have it." Māyā is there; she supplies you ingredients, and you and you get your thing. This is going on. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. But the action which you are engaged, the result you have to enjoy. You wanted some facility from Kṛṣṇa. You get it. You wanted to steal something from somewhere. Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence: "Yes, you steal. Come here. You steal. Here is the opportunity." But when you are arrested, you don't make responsible Kṛṣṇa. You wanted to steal. Here is the facility. That's all. So it is kindness of Kṛṣṇa that He is giving you all facilities. If you want to be a thief, He'll give you all facilities to be a first-class thief. And if you want to be a devotee, He'll give you all facilities to be a first-class devotee. Now it is your choice. Therefore we are suffering in our own choice. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa (BG 7.27). We wish something, we desire something, to have, and we hate something, to leave. Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facility, but we are not happy. By acting in our own way we are misguided. Otherwise we are, would have been happy. Suppose if somebody wanted that "Let me have one crores of rupees." "All right, you have it. Here is one crore of rupees." But after one crore of rupees you are not happy. These Americans, they wanted to be the richest nation in the world. They have become. But their children—not happy. They are becoming hippies. Their father is also not happy, because his boy has gone astray. The government is perturbed, bewildered, "What to do with these boys?"
Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he is within these groups. What are these groups? Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means one has got merit, but the merit is utilized for sinful activities. You can use your merit two ways—for good purpose and for bad purpose also. Just like thieves and rogues, they have got merit. They know how to steal, how to cheat. It is not unintelligent. They are intelligent. But their intelligence, merit, is used for bad purposes. They are called duṣkṛtina. And mūḍha-purposefully they are trying to avoid. Every step they are being baffled, and still, they are trying to avoid the supreme controller. Therefore mūḍha. And narādhama, narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. In the animal life they could not understand Kṛṣṇa or God—that is not possible—and they have got this human form of life... In this life one can understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are trying. That is possible. But if we do not take advantage of this human form of life to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, then you are lowest of the mankind. So na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānā (BG 7.15). And if we say that "There are so many doctors of philosophy, doctors of science, they are also hovering under this darkness, how is that? Then what about their education?" Yes, their education, certainly, but māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. The result of education, knowledge, that is taken away by māyā.
The atheistic theory... The atheist... Nowadays there are atheists, not that... Atheist class of men there are always. Maybe number of the atheists are now greater than before, but there was a great atheist in India. There are six kinds of philosophical theses. Out of those, atheism is one of them. So that atheism... Cārvāka Muni. He was, Cārvāka, the leader of the atheists. His theory was that ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Just beg, borrow or steal. You must eat butter. Never mind." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, yāvan jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet: "So long you shall live, you must live very comfortably." Then one may say, "Oh, beg, borrow, steal, and who'll suffer the sins? If I borrow, if I cannot pay? If I commit sins? If I commit burglary? Oh." The Cāṇakya, the Cārvāka Muni replied, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "Well, when your body will be burnt into ashes, who is coming here and who is going to be responsible? Don't think all these." So this is atheistic theory. They don't believe that there is transmigration of the soul. He has to take another body and he has to take body according to his work, and there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies, and human body is the most benefactory. So they do not know all these things. So this is called āvaraṇātmikā, covering influence.
So uttara, uttara means uttara-mīmāṁsā. There is a philosophy which is called karma-mīmāṁsā. Karma-mīmāṁsā means there is no need of making your relationship with God. God is Supreme, accepted, but He is bound to give you the result of your honest work. This is another philosophy. So you work honestly, there is more or less moral principles. If you stick to the moral principle, ethics and morals, then you will be entrapped by the prideness that "Oh, I am very moral. I do not speak lies. I do not steal. I treat with my neighbors very nicely. So I have no necessity to search out father. I am quite all right." That means, this mundane moralist, if you become mundane moralist, or if you become mundane philosopher or if you stick to the ritualistic process of your particular faith, then there is no hope of reaching to the Absolute Truth. Mundane scriptural, ritualistic way and dry speculative philosophy and mundane moralists. Just like Arjuna and his brother. His eldest brother is Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira; he was very moralist, Dharmarāja. His name was "the king of religious principles," Dharmarāja.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
The rice was selling at six rupees per mound. All of a sudden, within a week, it came to fifty rupees per mound. I have seen it. No rice was available in the market. People were hungry. They were purchasing. But the beauty is one American gentleman was present at that time. He remarked that "People are starving in this way. In our country, there would have been revolution." Yes. But the people of India are so trained that in spite of creating this artificial famine, they did not commit any theft, stealing others' property. They died peacefully. Of course, this is a single instance. But the thing is that problems are not created by God. They are created by us. Just like in the... One, my German Godbrother, he said that during the First World War... Perhaps some of you know. The politicians created war and there was war. So people went to church. People means all women, because men were all in the active field. So they prayed, "My brother may come back. My husband may come back. My son may come back." But nobody came back, and they all became atheists: "Oh, there is no God." But the thing is that God does not say that "You create war, create problem and for solution of the problem you come to Me." No, you have created your problems; you have to take the result.
Festival Lectures
You should not be attached with Kṛṣṇa's property. The karmīs are attached to the Kṛṣṇa's property. They are trying to steal, unlawfully enjoy, Kṛṣṇa's property. That is karmī. And the jñānīs, so-called jñānīs, out of ignorance trying to renounce Kṛṣṇa's property. The jñānīs, they are very much proud that they are advanced in knowledge and renouncing, but if somebody asks, "Sir, what you are renouncing?" "This world." "All right. When this world became your property that you are renouncing? When this world became your property?" You renounce something which you possess, but if you do not possess something, what is the meaning of your renouncement? You came here empty-handed, you live here for some time and go away. So in the beginning you are not proprietor, and when you go away you are not proprietor. Then what is the meaning of your renouncement? That is the defect. So we don't renounce. We think, we see that everything is given by Kṛṣṇa to us. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Now, I... Nothing belongs to me, everything Kṛṣṇa's. Even my body, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. My mind, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. My thoughts, my speech, whatever I create, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, and actually, that is the fact.
Anukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ pratikūlyasya varjanam. This is called surrender. Surrender means that Kṛṣṇa is asking sarva-dharmān parityayja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. What is the surrender means? Surrender means "Kṛṣṇa, I am surrendering unto You. I was acting whimsically, by the dictation of my different senses." Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, like that. Na kāmādīnāṁ katidha na katidhā pālitā durnideśa. The śāstra says, you should not steal-an example. But I am stealing. Why? Na kāmādīnāṁ katidha na katidhā pālitā durnideśa. I know I should not steal; therefore I go to somebody's house very secretly, or push my hand very secretly in one's pocket. I know that I should not do this, but I am forced to do it. Why? I am dictated by my lusty desire. So I am become servant of my six senses. Manaḥ saṣṭhanīndriyāni prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is our position. Na manina kulya... Everyone knows. A thief knows if he commits theft he'll be punished, either by the police or by the laws of God. Everyone knows, but he still commits theft. Why? He is dictated by the lusty desires.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Kīrtanānanda: And they don't want to hear.
Prabhupāda: No. Caraṇe sarve varṇe kaye (?). A thief, if you speak to him, "My dear Mr. Thief, it is not very good work. You will be arrested. You will be punished. Why you are taking this risk?" so will he give up stealing? He knows himself, "Yes, I will be arrested and punished, but still I shall do." This is ignorance.
Kīrtanānanda: How was the Chicago festival?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Chicago is nice city. It is river?
Ravindra-svarūpa: This is called the Schuylkill River, Schuylkill.
Prabhupāda: It is a river?
Ravindra-svarūpa: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...nice, constructed very nice cities.
Initiation Lectures
Ṛṣabhadeva says that people are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means intensely. Intensely intoxicated. Pra means intensely, and mattaḥ, mattaḥ means intoxicated. So the disease, material disease, is intensely intoxicated in the matter of sense gratification. This is material disease. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And impelled by this propensity of sense gratification, they are prepared to do any kind of nonsense. Vikarma. Vikarma means what we should not do. Just like a man steals. He knows that stealing is not good, but he wants to satisfy some sense; therefore he is committing stealing also. Therefore he is mad. He knows that "If I am arrested for this stealing or committing this offense, I'll be punished. I may be hanged or..." There are so many things. But still, because he is mad after some sense gratification, he commits such sinful activities. This is practical. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma means the actions which we should not have done. Why? Yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. Indriya, indriya means sense. Prītaya means satisfaction. Simply for the satisfaction of the senses. If one is philosopher, he can understand, "Why we should be so much busy for sense gratification?" Now we can give one example. Everyone is trying, working hard for his sense gratification. Nobody is trying... Suppose if I say that "I want to satisfy my senses in this way. Will you kindly work for it?" Nobody will... "Oh, why I shall work for you? You can work for your own satisfaction." Nobody will.
How devotional service can be done? Prīti-pūrvakam, in love. They must enjoy. Here is an opportunity of serving Kṛṣṇa. The more they engage in service, the more they become pleased. That is spiritual service. There is no retirement. Material service, you'll get tired, fatigued: "Oh, I have worked so much now." In the spiritual service you'll get more energy: "Let me serve more, serve more." To such devotees, the Lord, sitting in the heart, gives instruction: "Do like this," so that he'll very soon come to Him. "Do like this." And to the others? Yes, others also He gives instruction. What instruction? "You wanted to do this. Do it now. Here is opportunity. You wanted to steal. All right. Here is the opportunity. Steal." Because everyone's heart, Kṛṣṇa is there. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). In the Fifteenth Chapter: "I am situated in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "From Me, there is remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." Forgetfulness is also coming from Him.
The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is making propaganda, so they require money. Money is Kṛṣṇa's money. Everyone is holding Kṛṣṇa's money. So the sooner they spare that money... Because if I am holding your money, if I give it to you, then I become released from my criminal activities. Suppose I have stolen something from your pocket and I become conscious, "Oh, this stealing is not good," so as soon as I return unto you, "Please take this money; I was mistaken," so thing is settled up. But if you hold it, then you are criminal. You will be punished. Similarly, everyone who is holding Kṛṣṇa's money, not returning to Kṛṣṇa, he is a criminal. He will be punished. How they are punished? That you have seen. In India, in recent... Everywhere, the same thing is going on. There was war between Pakistan and India. So all the rich men had to contribute fifty lakhs, fifty hundred thousand, according to everyone's capacity. Many millions of rupees were collected, and it was put into the gun powder, "Svāhā!" (laughter) So if you don't execute this svāhā, then you will have to execute that svāhā. (laughter) (sings out the word "svāhā!") That's all.
So you are taking this pledge for serving in front of Kṛṣṇa, Vaiṣṇava, guru, and fire. So you shall be very much cautious not to forget your duty. You have got good opportunity. You are going to Africa to deliver these persons. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā (SB 2.4.18). These groups of men are considered very fallen, kirāta, the black men. They are called niṣāda. Niṣāda was born of Vena, King Vena. So they are habituated to steal; therefore they have been given a separate place, African jungles. That is there in the Bhāgavatam. So, but everyone can be delivered. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā. These are known (as) sinful life. But Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, "There may be others which is not mentioned here." Ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ: "If they take shelter of a Vaiṣṇava," śudhyanti, "they become purified."
General Lectures
But karma is accepted? But I do not know. Dr. Urquhart was arguing that if I am suffering or enjoying as the effect of my previous life, so who is the witness? His argument was like this. Just like if I have committed some criminal act, in the court there is need of witness. Then one has to prove that somebody has seen that he has done this. This is simply a legal formality. Who is going to steal while keeping one witness? Nobody's going, but court wants that who has seen that he has stolen. Anyway, Dr. Urquhart's argument was that "Who is the witness? I am suffering the reaction of my previous bad or evil activities, but who is the witness?" But at that time we were not so intelligent. We could not answer. But later on, when we were grown up and studied Bhagavad-gītā, then here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, we saw that upadraṣṭā. The Lord is upadraṣṭā, He is witness. Upadraṣṭā. Anumantā. Anumantā means ordering.
The defect of the modern civilization is they don't care. Hedonism, Cārvāka's theory. There was, long, long before, there was an atheist philosopher. As there are many atheist philosophers nowadays, in former days also. He was known as Cārvāka Muni. According to his opinion, he says that don't care for next life. Don't care. Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet. He says... Because according to Vedic system, the body is burned after death. As you bury underground... There are three processes everywhere. Somebody throws away for being eaten up by birds, or somebody puts within the ground, or somebody burns it. So Cārvāka Muni says that "After burning this body, who is coming and who is responsible? You see. You live merrily as far as possible. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. If you have no money, then borrow or steal, but live very nicely for sense pleasure." That is Cārvāka Muni's theory, and mostly, at the present moment, that theory is being followed. But the question is that Cārvāka Muni says there is no next life. What is the proof? Does it mean that his word is proof that there is no next life? Then everyone will say something. Of course, that is being accepted. Anyone discovers or says something nonsense, it is accepted.
In our last meeting we were discussing. Why people are forced to commit sinful activities? This point is also discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is that thing which forces a man to commit sinful activities?" Just like the same example that one man is seeing practically that one who has committed something criminal, he is punished. And he has heard it also from authorities, from lawyers or from respectable gentlemen, that "If you commit such and such sinful activities... If you steal, then you will be imprisoned for six months. If you cheat, you'll be imprisoned for such and such period. If you commit murder, then you'll be hanged." These things are taught some way or other. Either in religious scripture or by lawbooks or by morality or ethical principle, they are taught to the human, civilized human society. And he sees also practically that "This man has committed this kind of criminality, and he is punished." And again why does he commit? That is the problem. So kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Kāma and krodha. Kāma means desire, lust. Kāma. And when the desire or lust is not fulfilled, then there is krodha. Krodha means anger. There are so many cases of criminality, when the lust is not fulfilled, one commits some criminal action and he is punished and so many things happen.
God may have many names. Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name. God has no name; some philosophers say like that. No name means that His name is understood by His different action. Just like Kṛṣṇa is sometimes called Yaśodā-nandana. Because He has accepted Mother Yaśodā, to become her son, therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Yaśodā-nandana. Kṛṣṇa's name is Pārtha-sārathi. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa has accepted to become a chariot driver of Arjuna. Pārtha means Arjuna, and sārathi means chariot driver. So Kṛṣṇa's name became Pārtha-sārathi. Kṛṣṇa used to steal butter from the stock of His mother's butter stock; therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Mākhana-cora. So in this way Kṛṣṇa's name are varieties. Kṛṣṇa has unlimited number of activities, and according to such activity He has got unlimited names. But the primary name which is applicable in all circumstances is "Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone. Otherwise how you're attracted? If Kṛṣṇa is not all-attractive... From the beginning of your life you never heard of Kṛṣṇa, neither you knew about Kṛṣṇa. Why you are attracted? Huh? So Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. That is the perfect name of God, "Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa has got many names, sahasra nāme, thousands of names.
Does it mean that you are satisfied? Why there are hippies? Why there are so many frustrated youngsters? The richest country in the world. That, this richness of material world, the rascals, they are following that "If we become like America and some industrial, we shall become happy." That is rascaldom. Actual happiness is how you learn to love God. Then you get happy. That can be achieved without any material advancement. Anywhere you can have, without any expenditure, without any effort, without any education, without any knowledge. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you develop that love. This is the highest service to the human society. Just try to understand. Everyone will say, "Oh, I am now satisfied, fully satisfied. I don't want. No more stealing, no more pick-pocketing, no more cheating, because I have no want. Why shall I cheat? Why shall I cheat?" Everything will be complete, fully satisfied. Yayātmā suprasīdati. Suprasīdati, this very word, Sanskrit word, is there. You have to make yourself fully satisfied. Then there will be no more want.
Prabhupāda: So we have to introduce this here. And if they give place, immediately take it.
Devotee (1): We have it. We'll take. It's very close to the man's house who built this temple, the man who was speaking in Indonesian. He gave us the house. Over a month ago they offered it to us.
Prabhupāda: So then take it.
Devotee (1): Before we were coming every Saturday here to teach their children, just kīrtana and some stories. The children of that man, when I first came there and I was saying Hare Kṛṣṇa, they started saying "Bhīma," "Arjuna," "Yudhiṣṭhira," like this. They know many stories. Of course, many stories are wrongly told, but they have some familiarity with Vedic knowledge, a little. They have paintings also of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, stealing their clothes, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot. But they don't know how to present Kṛṣṇa as He is in His original form. They make Him more like a man because they don't know. But it's a basis. (break) ...nice. Maybe we can do that in some of our temples in India. Playing maṅgala āratika over the loudspeaker.
Devotee (2): Like the Muslims, they chant...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Take, for example, in your country, the law is "Keep to the left" while you drive your car. That is the order of the state. But if you do not obey the state order, instead of driving on the left side, if you drive on the right side, you immediately become a criminal, punishable. But the same right and left consideration, if a dog or a cat or a cow violates, instead of going on the left side, if he passes—he has no fault. He's animal. He's animal. Or a child—if he violates law. If I take anything without your permission, that is called stealing. If I enter your house without your permission, that is trespassing. So these are laws, and it is applicable to the grown-up men, intelligent men, civilized men. It must be. If you want to enter somebody's house, and if you see the signboard, "No admission without permission," you'll never go there, because you are civilized. But a cat and dog will enter. A child will enter. Therefore these laws of dharma or religious system is meant for the civilized human being, not for the uncivilized cats and dogs.
In our country there were atheists also. Just like Cārvāka Muni. According to his philosophy, he says, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. Because in our country, India, life is enjoyable when we get to eat too much ghee. You see, pakhika anna (?). That is enjoyment. Just like in Western countries, if they can eat, they can drink more, that is life's enjoyment. In our country, of course. So ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. If somebody says that "I have no money," so Cārvāka Muni says that "You take loan from your friend and purchase ghee and enjoy life." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. "So long you will live, live happily. Why... Make beg, borrow, steal and live happily." "No. I shall be responsible. I shall have to pay next life." Cārvāka Muni says, "No, no. Don't bother about next life." Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet: "Your body will be burned in the crematorium. That finished. That's all." This foolishness is there, that this life... We do not know that this human form of life we have got by the evolutionary process, going through so many lives. Just like in our present life we can understand that I have come to this body, old body, through child's body, boy's body, youth's body, in this way. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not manufactured.
We know that if we infect some disease knowingly or unknowingly-generally we infect unknowingly-later on that disease becomes developed. This is law of nature. Not that you do not know when you infected that particular disease... That is no excuse. You have infected yourself with this kind of disease; you must suffer. This is knowledge. Similarly, there are three kinds of infection, modes of material nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. So ignorance is no excuse. If in the law court you say, "My lord, I did not know that by stealing one is punished," that, the magistrate or the judge, will not excuse you. The law, even this material law, is so strict, and you can imagine how much strict are stringent laws of the nature. So this is the material life, that knowingly or unknowingly we are infecting a particular type of modes of material nature, and our next body is being created. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Sad-asad life, there are different varieties of life, 8,400,000 varieties of forms.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: He said that one standard whether something is right or wrong is that if it is self-contradictory, if somebody's action is self-contradictory.
Prabhupāda: He is actually self-contradictory. He is going to give right to others that he does not want to give the same right to the animals. That is self-contradictory.
Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of someone who doesn't want anyone to steal something from him but he steals something from others.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And that is self-contradictory.
Prabhupāda: Yes, self-contradictory action is here, that I don't want to be killed but I kill another animal. This is self-contradictory. Supporting by some nonsense philosophy. I don't want to be killed but I kill other, this is self-contradictory.
Śyāmasundara: He says that acting in accordance with a conscience is the right type of activity.
Prabhupāda: The conscience, the so-called conscience is created. You go on killing, your conscience will be killing conscience, "It is all right." The thief becomes accustomed to steal, the conscience will say, "Yes, I must steal. It is my right." So you can create your conscience in that way. By association, by misguiding, they also create their conscience. Just like the Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are killing, creating a conscience, "Yes, killing is all right." In the religion it is forbidden, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are creating another conscience, "It is right." The conscience is created by association. By good association, conscience is the good conscience and by bad association, a bad conscience is created. So there is no such standard as conscience. Conscience means discriminating power.
Śyāmasundara: Families, when they relate together in communities, are related by certain laws or rights, that one voluntarily abstains from killing and stealing from other families so that no one will do the same to him.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: So but...
Prabhupāda: This is not applicable to the animal family?
Śyāmasundara: No.
Prabhupāda: This is philosophy. (chuckles) What kind of philosopher he is? Our, Lord Buddha preached that if you feel pain when somebody pinches you, you should not pinch (them). He does not say that you should not pinch a human being. Therefore his dharma is ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. This is philosophy, something. What is this philosophy? Nonsense philosophy. That you protect your family but you eat the animal family. This Lord Buddha's philosophy has got meaning, but where is the meaning of this philosophy?
Śyāmasundara: Someone might raise the point, "Well, the man is hungry and he has no food, therefore in order to feel pleasure he must steal it and cause displeasure to someone else." But this Bentham says that there are four natural curves or preventions, preventative forces to keep people from egoistic over-indulgence. One is the physical consequences of over-indulgence. If I eat too much, I get sick. One is political, that I will be imprisoned if I transgress. I will be punished. One is moral, or popular opinion, the public will think badly of me if I over-indulge. And the fourth one is religious, that God will punish me if I am an evil-doer. These four preventions he says, keep us from over-indulging in pleasure.
Prabhupāda: But if there is some happiness, why there is no prevention. That is real happiness. There is no prevention, simply go on increasing.
Śyāmasundara: Indulging.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Kṛṣṇa's happiness, there was no prevention. So that is real happiness. Prevention means material, limited. Just like drinking liquor. There is prevention also. There are no-alcoholic beer. You have seen the signboard? That is prevention.
Prabhupāda: In Bombay. It was prohibited area. So Gandhi made this prohibition as far as possible. Now they are lifting. Because simply prohibition will not help you. Unless you have got a better engagement, this prohibition will not help you. By law you can say, "Don't do this," but if you have no better engagement, this order of the law, "Don't do this," will not act. Will not act. Just like government, your government is trying to stop this intoxication. They could not. It is increasing. But so far our society is concerned, anyone who is coming here, immediately there is no intoxication. That means he gets something better. Therefore he voluntarily checks himself. And it is possible to check. So unless you give better thing, simply by prohibition you cannot check. That is not possible. The same example again, just like a thief, he knows the prohibitive order that you shall not steal. He knows the prohibitive order even in śāstra, that if a man is a thief he will suffer this kind of hellish condition. So he has heard it from the lawyer and from the śāstra that stealing is not good and he has seen it that a thief is arrested and is punished but still he does it. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not do it. That is the difference. So by law or by pressure you cannot make anyone moral. That's not possible. He has to be given something which is better than morality, then he will stop committing all kinds of sins.
Śyāmasundara: Because we are hoping for the same result.
Prabhupāda: Just like a thief, he gets more money by stealing, but that is not allowed by the society. It is law. So that is not very good.
Śyāmasundara: No. He says that is not a good faith. But our decisions are not (indistinct) based upon..., our authentic, personal commitment, whatever that is.
Prabhupāda: Mm?
Śyāmasundara: Whatever that may be.
Prabhupāda: That he does not know, but we know. He is simply philosopher. We know that we must exist for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we know, but he does not know.
Śyāmasundara: He is..., he is looking for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: He does not know this.
Śyāmasundara: But he does not know.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is looking. Everyone... The struggle for existence means everyone is looking for "How shall I exist forever?" But he does not know. Everyone... Nobody wants to die. Everyone wants to free himself from the clutches of death, but he does not know it.
Prabhupāda: That conscience is due to practice. Just like a butcher, he has no conscience that killing is bad. That he is practiced to do that, he does not say that... His conscience is not touched by killing. So this conscience is by practice created in a different atmosphere, so it does not act. Unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his conscience has no value. It is contaminated conscience. So as you are accustomed, so you have made a particular type of conscience. A thief, a thief, when he goes to steal, his conscience says, "This is all right. This is my livelihood. Why shall I stop it?" So what is value of this conscience?
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that because he comes from a Christian background, where there is no...
Prabhupāda: Under some background he is speaking of conscience. But I say there are different consciences according to different backgrounds. So unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa background, his conscience has no value. That is our...
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that the speculative faculty is intelligence, that we can understand...
Prabhupāda: Then he is also speculating. Just like the butcher killing, he is also speculating, "What is the wrong there? Why people are protesting?" That is also speculating. But because his background is different, his conscience does not help him.
Śyāmasundara: A person is doing something, it doesn't matter so much what he is doing but how he is doing it, that he is doing it genuinely, with full integrity.
Prabhupāda: Then if a man is stealing, and he is doing it very scientifically, is that all right?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. The existentialists...
Prabhupāda: There are many, many thieves, they know how to go into the bank treasury scientifically. Is that all right?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He is an existential hero, the good thief or the good killer.
Prabhupāda: Then the same hero, just like the insect hero. The same hero. The insect hero very boldly goes to the fire. (laughter) The same. He is no better than an insect, without any knowledge or discrimination.
Śyāmasundara: He says that we treat ourselves as things, as objects, because we are afraid to accept ourselves for being such unsavory characters. In other words, if I look at myself, I do not like what I see, because I am so full of sinful activity, I am such an unsavory character, so therefore I objectify myself. I begin to think that "I am an engineer," "I am a scientist," "I am this," "I am that," so many designations, but I don't see myself as a person because I don't like to see myself.
Prabhupāda: What does he say about this?
Śyāmasundara: So he says that existential psychoanalysis is required. Existential psychoanalysis, he calls it.
Prabhupāda: Then why does he pose himself as a philosopher? The same thing—as engineer, as scientist.
Śyāmasundara: The main thing, though, is that he must abide by his decision. Whatever he chooses, that he must live it.
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If I decide to steal, it is better to avoid it. Not that because I have to decided to steal, I must do it just like a hero and then go to prison.
Śyāmasundara: For Sartre there is no absolute right and wrong. Some of his main heroes are great thieves and debauchers, like there's one... What is his name?
Prabhupāda: Alexander. Alexander and the robber. There is a story that a robber was arrested by Alexander and there was talk between Alexander and the robber: "You proved that you are big robber, that's all. Why you are going to punish me?" And he was released: "Yes. I'm a big robber. I have no difference between you and me."
Śyāmasundara: So he says that ideally, if our environment was conditioned in such a way that they were rewarded for doing good things and punished for doing bad things, that they would not go away.
Prabhupāda: They would be punished, but they don't care for punishment. Just like it says in the lawbook that if you steal, you'll be arrested, but they don't care for your lawbook, the thief. What can you do? That independence is already there. The lawbook says that if you commit theft you will be punished, and he is actually punished. But if he doesn't care for punishment, then what can you do? Punishment is already there.
Śyāmasundara: For instance, he gives an example that, let's say that in an institution there is lunch served for one hour between twelve and one, and at one o'clock the door is closed and locked, sharply. So automatically everyone who wants to come must come before one o'clock, otherwise they will be punished.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. If anyone prefers to starve, they may not come. That law will be not be obligatory to a person who prefers to starve.
Śyāmasundara: Actually, his idea is not to let them be punished but to reward.
Prabhupāda: This is the (indistinct), that the thief has learned from the lawbooks, from the religious books, that stealing is bad. If one steals he'll be punished. Because in the human society the scriptures that they have got. No scripture will say that you should steal, for example, neither the lawbook will say that you steal. So if you have heard from scriptures and from lawbooks that stealing is criminal, and by committing this sinful activity I shall be punished, and if you have seen also that anyone who has violated this law and stolen others' property has been arrested and policeman has taken him to the jail, he has seen, he has heard, he has completely experienced, but still, why does he steal? What is the answer?
Devotee: Impelled. Because (indistinct) as a human being. He has a tendency because of the four defects of a human being.
Prabhupāda: Then the question arises, how to rectify these defects?
Śyāmasundara: He says by changing the social environment. By changing the social environment.
Prabhupāda: But he cannot do.
Devotee: But in my experience changing the social environment...
Prabhupāda: The social environment is already there, but still you will be punished.
Śyāmasundara: But his idea is that if you reward them for not stealing that they will not steal. If you reward them sufficiently.
Prabhupāda: First of all let him come to the point of not stealing. Then you will be all right. (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: But if you pay him more, then he won't steal.
Prabhupāda: That you cannot. That you cannot. That is not possible.
Atreya Ṛṣi: The reward and punishment system, Prabhupāda, is motivational. It's not that you pay him more and you pay him less or you punish him. The thing is, he says that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Who pays? Suppose I am going to steal and get one dollar. And if you pay me three dollars, then I may not steal. Then next point will be when there will be four dollars, I'm going to steal.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No. He is not going to pay you three and four dollars. What he is suggesting is that the reason one steals is not so much that... There are other reasons, like he likes to break the law because he is angry at the law.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the person, why he likes to break the law? That is the question.
Devotee: In the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna asks the same question.
Prabhupāda: So this is the important point, that what you are thinking rewarding, that is not. He will think it is insignificant. So what (indistinct). If you give me five dollars, if I steal I will get twenty-five dollars. Why shall I accept your reward?
Śyāmasundara: So what about if I don't steal, my friends will like me. If I do steal, my friends will hate me.
Prabhupāda: But if you have got for friends only thieves, then who will object? "Oh, you are very nice, you are very expert." Why should you mix with such friends? (indistinct) Birds of the same feather flock together.
Śyāmasundara: He says there are three things that this society has that keeps people from disobeying, that is God...
Prabhupāda: This is all speculation. It has no meaning.
Śyāmasundara: ...God, the police, and what other people will think.
Prabhupāda: But if you have no idea of God, what is God, and why am I expecting that you will fear God? You do not know what is God, and you are talking of God.
Prabhupāda: This is described in Bhāgavata: punah punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), "chewing the chewed." Once it is chewed, it is thrown away, and then again, "Let me see if there is any juice." (laughter) Chewing the chewed. Or in plain words, mental concoction. The mind's business is acceptance and rejection. First of all, reject American capitalists; then again accept for consulting. That means they are hovering on the mental plane. They have no intelligence. In big scale, accepting and rejecting. That's all. It is the business of the mind. As in your personal mind you see, you accept something immediately and again reject, "No, no, it is not good." The same thing is going on in a bigger scale. That's all. They are not... Just like a pickpocket and a big scientific thief. Huh? They are trying to... Modern, scientifically, they want to rob the bank. They set the bomb. And pickpocket is satisfied by taking one paisa from your pocket. But the principle is stealing. Because you are very organized thief, it does not mean from the eyes of the law you are honest. You cannot say in the court that "I am organized thief. I am scientific thief, and he is a pickpocket." In the eyes of the law you are also punishable, he is also punishable. That's all. So they are, I mean to say, large-scale speculators. That's all. But it is, after all, speculation. It has no fact.
Śyāmasundara: Conscience.
Prabhupāda: Conscience, yes. A thief, he also prepares his conscience. When he goes to steal he says, "I must, because I have to maintain my family. I do not know any other business, I must." This is his conscience. The other conscious is, "No, no, no I cannot steal. It is sin." So where is the conscience? Conscience is not standard. You make your, manufacture your own conscience. Therefore you have to take advice from Kṛṣṇa conscience. That is real conscience. Whether it is (indistinct) with Kṛṣṇa conscience, that is (indistinct). Otherwise he created own conscience.
Śyāmasundara: It is that the supreme principle of world order is freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yes, freedom. Our present condition is not freedom. We are completely under the laws, te 'pi svatantra rudhāṇī vardhya (?). They are tied up by the ropes of material nature, hands and legs, and still they are thinking, "I am free." That is illusion. Nobody is free. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). We are seeking freedom but nobody is free. Nobody is free. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27), they are pulled by the ear, "Do this." Prakṛteḥ. You have to do this.
Hayagrīva: "...and unob..."
Prabhupāda: So that means he wants to listen somebody's dictation. That is, as soon as you say "listen," then somebody is speaking, you listen. So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is situated in everyone's heart, and He is dictating. Even He is dictating to the thief that "You are going to steal. It is not good. If you are arrested you will be punished." That dictation is there, but he disobeys the dictation and he steals, commits sin. That is sin. So the dictator is there, we admit that. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there within the heart, and He is giving dictation, but you disobey. But if we accept that dictation, then you become devotee. Dictation is already there; otherwise this thief is going to steal at night? Dictation is there that "You don't go at the daytime. You will be captured and be punished." "All right, I shall go at night, when everyone is sleep." So dictation is there. Dictation is there in two ways—from the heart and from the representative. God's representative, saintly person, spiritual master, is dictating, "My dear boy, do not do this; you do this." Outside dictation. And inside dictation. But he is disobeying. Regularly he is disobeying. Then how he can be happy?
Hayagrīva: His ultimate goal is to merge into what he calls the universal ego.
Prabhupāda: That universal ego, so just like I have got some ego, "I am the husband of my wife," "I am the chief man in my family," "I am the president of the state"—these are egos. But you cannot say that "I am the master of this whole universe." That is false ego.
Hayagrīva: A man may know better but still act wrongly.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison—everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will.
Hayagrīva: In a sense he says that when one knows God he knows everything else, because...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows God and follows the instruction of God then he is right, and as soon as he goes against the instruction of God, then he is wrong. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: "Now I have given you all instruction. It is up to you to accept or reject." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). That is free will. So now it depends on me whether I shall act according to the instruction of God or I shall act according to my whims, according to my sensual inclinations.
Hayagrīva: Whereas Descartes stressed reason, Pascal says that the principles that are understood by the heart are absolutely certain and that they are certainly adequate to overcome all skepticism or doubt in God. Is this something like the Supersoul speaking in the heart? Or how can one be certain that it is the Supersoul?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is speaking. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te: "I give him intelligence by which he can always live with Me," upayānti. He is living along with... Every living entity is living with God. But out of his ignorance, he does not know. So what for the other bird is there? What He is doing? And He is living as witness. He is friend, that "What this nonsense is doing? He will suffer." So He is finding out the opportunity how he will take instruction from the other bird, God. And He gives instruction. But to whom? When he surrenders, and he is engaged in this service, then He gives him instruction. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi (BG 10.10). He gives. God is giving intelligence to everyone, but the nondevotee, he is not surrendered; he will not accept. The same example, when the thief goes to steal, God gives him that "Don't do this. You will suffer," and he knows that, that God says, He is speaking that "Don't do this," but still he does. So he suffers. But if he can purify and acts according to the instruction of God, then he is perfect. That is the difference between demon and devotee. Devotee strictly follows the order of God; he is happy. And demon, he also knows what is God's desire; he disobeys, he acts according to his whim, he suffers. So God is giving instruction. There is no doubt about it. Externally He is giving instructions through His agent, spiritual master, through books; and internally as consciousness, conscience. He is giving, always, but the rascal will not accept. Then he must suffer. What can be done?
Hayagrīva: And Locke argues on behalf of private property given to man by God. That is to say a man may have a certain stewardship over a certain amount of property. Is this in compliance with the Īśopaniṣadic version?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) everything belongs to God. Just like the father has got many sons and the father is the proprietor of the house. He gives one son, "This is your room," the other son, "This is your room." So the obedient son is satisfied what the father allows to him. Others, those who are not obedient, they want to disturb other brother that "This room also belongs to me." That creates chaos and confusion in the world. The United Nations, they have created a society for unity of the nations, but actually that is not unity. That is another way of encroaching upon others' property. Therefore there is no peace, unless they accept God is the Supreme proprietor. And we must be satisfied with the allotment God has given to us. Then there is no trouble. But the trouble is that we are not satisfied with the allotment given to us. That allotment can be understood by language or similar culture. So why one should encroach upon others' property which is allotted by God? That creates disturbance. So this so-called modern civilized man, first of all they create disturbances, and then they want to make some adjustment. Of course, for the good of a certain people, if somebody encroaches... But they do not know what is good. They encroach upon others' property for their personal sense gratification. Otherwise, if for the good of the local people somebody, some (indistinct), just like the Aryans, they conquered over many islands or places, but that was for the good of them. Just like the Pāṇḍavas, they also ruled over, but the Pāṇḍavas were God conscious devotees and they made everyone enlightened in God consciousness. That kind of encroachment. Just like Lord Rāmacandra went to Ceylon, or Lanka, and conquered over it, because Rāvaṇa was a demon. So He conquered, Lord Rāmacandra conquered over the property of Rāvaṇa, and gave it to Vibhīṣaṇa, but He did not take anything. Just like Kṛṣṇa conducted, managed this Kurukṣetra war personally, but the kingdom was given to Yudhiṣṭhira. He did not encroach. So this kind of encroachment is all right, that everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, everyone should be highly elevated in spiritual life. For spreading this civilization, encroaching on others' property is quite fit. But if one encroaches upon others' property for self-aggrandizement, for stealing for his own sense gratification, that is sinful.
| Page Title: | Steal (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 22 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=165, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 165 |