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Steal (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: In Sanskrit it is called (pid?) vastra, backside robe. So under the backside robe He kept one pot of condensed milk by stealing. So the pūjārī woke up and opened the door and actually saw that there was a pot of condensed milk. The priests were very much astonished that "Oh, He has stolen (laughs) kṣīra for His devotee." So the order was that "You take this pot and give to Madhavendra Purī. He is sitting underneath a tree." So they, with the pot of the condensed milk, they began to cry, "Oh, who is that Madhavendra Purī? Oh, you are so fortunate. The Deity has stolen condensed milk for you. Take it." So he came forward and he was so pleased that Lord has stolen. "Because I desired to taste so Lord has stolen one pot." So in this way. From that day He became famous, the thief of condensed milk, Kṣīra-corā. Kṣīra means condensed milk and corā means thief. So the temple became famous as the temple of the thief of condensed milk.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya also visited. Anyone in those days going to Jagannātha Purī from Bengal they had to pass that way. And on the way the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple is there. So everyone used to visit. So formerly Madhavendra Purī, he also visited, and for him the Deity stole the condensed milk. From that time He's known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. That story was narrated to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So while sitting before the Deity, the story was narrated and Caitanya Mahāprabhu relished it that God is so kind that sometimes He steals for His devotee. This is the significance of this. So here the scene should be arranged that very nice temple, the Deity within, and Lord Caitanya entered while chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saw the worship, ārātrika. These things are to be shown in this scene. And a little story about Him, that's all.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: The Bhāgavata says therefore, even the great personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality. He, Brahmā also heard that at Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared and He is acting as a cowherd boy. He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way. And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say, energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times. What Brahmā will do by stealing His... No, that is not possible. So Brahmā was also convinced. These things you'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-vimohana. Even Brahmā is bewildered, what to speak of ordinary men like us. So Kṛṣṇa-līlā, to understand... There is no need of understanding. Simply you love Kṛṣṇa, then the whole business finished. Just like if you touch fire, if you understand it or not understand it, the warmness is there. Similarly, either you understand Kṛṣṇa or do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. Simply if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That's all.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Whenever you add this word āśrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa—they are known as āśrama. Anyone can understand āśrama. As soon as there is āśrama that means "Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives." That is āśrama. So that āśrama, when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in brahmacārī āśrama. A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles—gṛhastha āśrama. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles—the vānaprastha āśrama. Similarly, a renounced life, sannyāsa, if he is following the regulative principles, that is sannyāsa āśrama. Not that imitating somebody, I put on a saffron dress and I become a sannyāsī and by begging I live. This has killed the whole Hindu society or the sanātana-dharma society. Unqualified persons, they do not know the regulative principles but for solution of economic problem they dress themselves. This is Kali-yuga. They will pass on simply by the dress without any knowledge. So here also, although Ajamila was born of a brāhmaṇa father and he was strictly following the regulative principles of a brāhmaṇa—that will be stated—but he fell. He fell in love with a prostitute And therefore his characters were lost. Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. The reason is why? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he associated with a prostitute, therefore his all regulative principles became lost. And as soon as you are lost of regulative principles then you take to all kinds of sinful activities. The regulative principles will keep you on the standard of life. If you give it up, then immediately you fall down, māyā. So this man Ajamila, because he was durācāra, naṣṭa-sadācāra, lost of all regulative principles on account of associating with a prostitute, then, although he was born of a brāhmaṇa family, he became... His livelihood was juha(?), bandy-akṣaiḥ, cheating and stealing. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. This kind of profession is garhitā. Garhitāṁ means... Hitā means beneficial. But this profession is garhitā because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished either by the king's law or by the God's law. I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although ātmā, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, na sādhu mānye: "You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering. Therefore necessity is now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again, you will have to again accept a body and you'll suffer.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is not happiness.

Guest (1): I am just coming to that. I was...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, one point is that earning or begging-beg, borrow or steal—that is not happiness. Because to acquire a standard of happiness you have to beg, you have to earn, or you have to steal, so that is not happiness.

Guest (1): No. What I am saying is that as long as a man lives...

Prabhupāda: But we are not talking of "as long as man lives." He lives eternally.

Guest (1): Yes, it is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): And it is eternal bondage there.

Prabhupāda: No. Bondage for so long you are in this material bondage.

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the pāpīs, then there will be no more existence because everybody is pāpī. If you take sword and kill the pāpīs, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing the pāpa-bīja. Pāpa-bīja means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to śāstra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also. But still he does stealing. He knows either from the state point of view or śāstra point of view, and he sees practically. Still he does it. Why? Pāpa-bīja. In the heart the seed of committing sinful activities is there. So simply by seeing or knowing, it will not be killed. It has to be killed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. He should be purified from the heart he'll give up everything. So this killing process is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So this pāpa-bīja, the seed of sinful activities, is being killed. Otherwise, how people give up all the sinful activities? Because the pāpa-bīja, the original seed, is being killed away. You see practically.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: No, I do not wish...

Interviewer: You know the ten commandments for example, there is a heavy emphasis in the ten commandments on the relationships between one human being and another. "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not steal." That sort of thing.

Prabhupāda: But I say that Jesus Christ never said, he never meant, "Thou shall not kill," means only human being. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shall not kill means it means only human being." Thou shall not kill any animal.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His behavior, he's a perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are prohibited not to eat meat.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: I do not know.

Interviewer: You know the ten commandments for example.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: There is a heavy emphasis in the ten commandments on the relationships between one human being and another, you know. "Thou shalt not kill," "Thou shalt not steal," you know, that sort of thing.

Prabhupāda: But I said that Jesus Christ never said..., he never meant "Thou shalt not kill" means only human beings. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shalt not kill" means, it means only human beings. Thou shalt not kill any animals.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted the wrong way. But he said "Thou shalt not kill." He never said "Thou shalt not kill among human beings." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He will be a very perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore prohibited not to eat meat.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. Why?

Revatīnandana: Not necessarily. But generally yes. Because we're coming here to serve Kṛṣṇa and we understand that everything is Kṛṣṇa's. So whatever we come with is automatically Kṛṣṇa's, so we use it in His service.

Prabhupāda: Actually, we don't possess anything. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. What we possess, so-called possession, that is illegal. Because I cannot possess your property. I can possess your property by stealing. Not by fair dealings.

Guest (2): So it's a voluntary thing, really?

Sister Mary: I can possess it if you give it to me.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. So that is our philosophy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Whatever God has given you, you possess. Don't try to possess other's property. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. Everything belongs to God, so whatever God gives me, you enjoy it. I take it. I don't encroach upon other's property.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes not fact but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness. It is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering and that is really fearfulness, that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer, that's a fact.

Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)

Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

u can become honest. But you do not know what is honesty. What is honesty? First of all explain.

Bob: Honesty is doing what you really feel is right.

Prabhupāda: Then a thief is feeling that "I must steal to provide my children. It is right." Does it mean that he's honest? Everyone thinks... The butcher, he thinks, "It is my life. I must cut throat of the animals daily." Just like that, what is that, vyādha, vyādha... When Nārada Muni met him?

Devotee: Oh, Mṛgāri.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Mṛgāri. "Why you are killing in this way?" "Oh, it is my business. My father taught it." So he was honestly doing that. So feeling of honesty depends on different culture. A thief's culture is different. He thinks stealing is honesty.

Bob: So what is honesty?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my question. (laughter) Real honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's property. This is honesty. Just like this is my table. If you want to take it away while going, is that honesty? No. So therefore the simple definition of honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's right. That is honesty.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: So, but, well, I was thinking of terms of just people who are relatively poor.

Prabhupāda: No relatively. Relatively maybe. You are more hungry than me. But that does not mean you are not hungry or I am not hungry. I don't feel hungry now, that does not mean I do not feel hungry or I am not hungry. For the time being you may not be hungry. Tomorrow you'll be hungry.

Bob: What I feel is that somehow these people that... Everybody around them may be stealing, but they still stand up and don't steal. That these people somehow deserve something good to happen to them.

Prabhupāda: But the man who is thinking that he's not stealing, he's also a thief. Because he does not know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever he's accepting, he's stealing.

Bob: Is he less of a thief?

Prabhupāda: You may not know that I am the proprietor of this wrapper, but if you take it away, are you not steal?

Bob: But, maybe it isn't... If I know it is yours and I take it I'm a worse thief than if I do not know whose it is and I just think it may be nobody's and I take it.

Prabhupāda: That is also stealing. Because it must belong to somebody.

Bob: Yeah.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How do you take it without his permission? You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you must know, "It must belong to somebody." That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things are lying, government property. You see? For repairing roads or electrical, so many things, valuable things are lying down. But a man may think that it is "Fortunately, it is lying there; so I take it." Is it not stealing?

Bob: It is stealing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that these are all government property. He takes away. That is stealing. And when he's caught he's arrested and he's punished. So similarly, whatever you are collecting... Suppose you are drinking a glass of water from the river. Is the river your property?

Bob: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man. Is that correct? What do you think, Girirāja?

Girirāja: Yes.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yadubara: Many other societies make compromises. Many other religious groups make compromises in their doctrine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they have no clear idea. They cannot push forward their concept. Just like the other day (indistinct) lady, she asked if Kṛṣṇa was a naughty boy. Yes, because He is God He must be naughty boy. Otherwise, wherefrom this idea of naughty boy comes if that quality is not in God? God is the origin of everything, creator of everything. So if He hasn't got this naughtiness in His person, then how this thing comes to be? That is the Vedānta version, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is that from which or from whom everything emanates. So wherefrom this naughtiness comes if it is not in the person of God? Wherefrom this stealing propensity comes if it is not in God? But because He is absolute, His stealing is also as good as his blessing. Mākhan-cora. Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter, that is worshiped, mākhana, by the very name. Just like in another temple, Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha. Gopīnātha is known as condensed milk thief, Kṣīra-cora. He is famous by the name cora, thief. But that cora and this cora, you cannot compare. He is famous as cora, or thief, but thousands of people go every day to worship that cora, that thief. And in the material, if one is known as thief, then thousands of people will beat him with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. If you say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa was a thief, then I can become a thief," then your will be beating of shoes on your head, and Kṛṣṇa will be eternally worshiped because He is thief. That is the difference. That is Absolute. He will be worshiped as thief, and He will be worshiped as very honest. That is Absolute. (aside:) No, no, this (indistinct) is not good. I will take little fruit.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Very dangerous.

Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): They are all thieves, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thieves, stealing from each other.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja. (japa) (end)

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Military has their own police.

Devotee (1): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are so pious and advanced in civilization, the students require police. The dean has publicly requested police, and still they are very much proud of advancement.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The police steals too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Especially in New York.

Prabhupāda: And police also requires another police. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12).

Ātreya Ṛṣi: All these Indians coming to this country to benefit, maybe we should go to India to take care of Vṛndāvana and all these other lands.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, this movement is there.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Will we be someday in charge of those?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, we are already in charge. You simply take charge. Your appointment is already there; simply go and take charge over.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible. Just like the citizens, if they create their own way of śānti, there cannot be peace. If they abide by the orders of the government, by the laws of the government, there will be peace. This is crude example. Similarly, if you do not accept God in the center as the Supreme Proprietor and the Supreme Enjoyer and the Supreme Friend, then there is no peace.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then? What is this? As soon as there is law, it must be considered that somebody made the law.

Karandhara: It's just a thief's mentality.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: If a thief comes on something valuable, he does not think who owns this. He simply thinks how he'll steal it.

Prabhupāda: That is thief's business.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they are all thieves.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So how we, a sane man can trust a thief? A sane man cannot trust a thief. There are so many things. They could not produce even a grass, even a small plant in the biology, chemistry laboratory, and still they're claiming it is product of biology, chemistry. What is this nonsenses. What kind of scientists there are?

Locana: We couldn't even choose when we were born.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Fire...?

Prabhupāda: Fire, disease and debt. How he instructed us. If you take loan from somewhere, interest compounded, one day it will become so big, unmanageable by you. Similarly fire may be very, a spark, but gradually it will so increase, oh, blazing fire. Disease also. Now there is little pain. Now, if it increases, it becomes tuberculosis. So therefore he has said: Never neglect these things: fire, or smaller or higher." They're always dangerous. (pause) There is a, in India, there is a proverb, hīrā and khīrā. Hīrā means diamond and khīrā means cucumber. It has no value, a few cents. And diamond is very valuable. But if some, somebody steals khīrā, he's also criminal, and one steals hīrā, he's also criminal. The punishment is equal. If he says: "I have stolen one khīrā. What is the value of it?" But by law, he's criminal. Never mind. (pause) (break) ...that he'll be happy in that way.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: The Russian scientists are very proud in their working, and they're atheistical. But still they're not able to produce enough food. Every year, there's not enough food.

Prabhupāda: No. There's not enough food. Yes. I have experienced it. You cannot get food as you like. What government supplies, you have to accept. That's all. And that is rubbish, all rubbish. Generally, they supply meat. No fruit, no vegetable, no rice, no, nothing. You cannot get. You simply eat meat. That's all. And milk is available. This is their arrangement. And in all store, lines. You have to ask, even if you want to take meat only, you cannot go and immediately purchase. You have to wait for three hours, control. This is their position. No bank. No motor car. No taxicab. Simply... There are simply symbolic. And people are poverty-stricken so much that one taxi driver, he was trying to cheat us. They have no sufficient money. So they saw us, that: "Here is a foreigner, Indian and American. Let me cheat." This is their position. Just like India. India, being poverty-stricken, they also cheat. Of course, cheating is a disease. But especially those who are poverty-stricken, generally, they cheat, they steal. No character. And all women are engaged for sweeping, fat, fat women.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: For all the six opulences, they'll choose someone, someone very beautiful...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is none complete. Except Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's complete. Our pro, philosophy is that we have to select if we... That we must have to. Otherwise, there is no life. Just like you scientists, you quote so many leaders, scientific leaders. Without this, there is no life. So... Just like in the Bengali there is a proverb that if I to, if I have to steal and become a thief, why not plunder the government treasury? Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy. So if we have to submit to somebody, why not the best and perfect? That is our philosophy. You cannot avoid submission. That is not possible. Who is there who does not submit to anyone? Find out anyone. If you, if a man has nobody to submit, he brings a dog and submits to him. The dog is passing stool. He's standing. He's submitted to the dog. The dog is passing urine, he's submitting: "Yes sir, you pass your urine. I take care of you." This is the nature. If you do not submit to God, then ultimately you have to submit to the dog. This is nature. You cannot avoid it. You have to submit. There is no other way. Because your position is like that. Without submitting to one, you cannot live. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is the philosophy given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but how about the one who picks up and he doesn't find the owner of the coins but he offers to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, he must find out. Because there are so many men, some of them must have lost that. So so far Kṛṣṇa's property is concerned, everyone knows, "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." There is no need of finding out. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Just like everyone knows, "This is American state." Where is the difficulty to find out? That was an example, but so far things are concerned, we know that, as we know that this land belongs to the American state, similarly this is false. Actually, everything belongs to God. There is no difficulty to understand. You have not created this ocean. You have not created this land. You have created nothing. You are simply stealing. That is your business. So how you do not know that it belongs to God? Everyone should know. This is knowledge. If I create something, I must enjoy it. Rather, the Vedic injunction is that you do not enjoy anything which you cannot create. You do not enjoy anything which you cannot create.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Well, like, many devotees, they experience the difficulty that although they sincerely want to love God and serve Him, yet their body is almost like another dictator within them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he is strongly under the grip of māyā.

Paramahaṁsa: Even though the desire exists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a thief, he knows that "If I steal, I will be arrested. I will be put into jail." And he has seen that one thief, he has stolen, he is arrested. Still he commits theft. He knows everything. Why does he commit theft?

Paramahaṁsa: Why?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Ignorance?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example of the elephant.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Something there is possibility of. Something..., somebody forgets more, somebody forgets little. But the forgetfulness is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the platform of material nature.

Prabhupāda: Just like stealing. Somebody's pick-pocket. Somebody's dacoit. The stealing is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When we sleep, when we dream, are we carried away by the three subtle elements, mind, intelligence...

Prabhupāda: You are carried always by nature under different conditions. You're simply being carried by the nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). You are under the grip of material nature. Just like pulling the ear.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: By our desires we are pulled?

Prabhupāda: No. You desire. There it is. That's how. It is not willingly because you are willing desires against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore she's giving chance, "Come on here. Take stool. Become hog. You wanted to eat stool. Come on." This is going on.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Buddhist Monk (1): And ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, nonviolence is the highest righteousness. And from this can come so much good. If we love each other, we express that love in its purest form by sharing, and if we share, we are not going to steal anything from someone else, we're not going to commit adultery, we're not going to say lies, and we'll not be under the influence of narcotics and so on. So that's that purification process, which is very, very powerful, not only for oneself, but the society in which it is used. So this is why I emphasize this virtue, and wherever I go, I try to meet within the limitations of time and transport...

Prabhupāda: Where you are staying here? London?

Buddhist Monk (1): That has become a little difficult because... It's difficult. We didn't know these āśramas, and we came yesterday. The Guru Nanak temple people made arrangements for our transport. We were staying with them for one week, and they looked after us dearly, and they made arrangements for our transport to come here. Some people were coming on some other business. So they brought us. So it was not much time. So we met a person in the street, and we told them that we are looking after a place to stay. And that person said, "Well, it's difficult here." Then I asked about two or three, and we had some addresses and they were far away. Then we met a friendly gentleman who was just reversing his car. He was smiling. And we smiled. We said, "Well, could you tell us a small place to pitch a tent." We carry a small tent. We said, "For a day or two..." He asked me how long. I said, "Just to find some breathing space at least." So we have pitched up a small tent in a private garden. That's somewhere in Cheswick Lane.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Haṁsadūta: Cheswick Lane.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's by the river, uh? It's quite far away, yes. So last night we stayed there. Is that on the western side of...?

Devotee: Yes, that's the West Fork.

Buddhist Monk (1): West Fork. West Fork.

Prabhupāda: This is northern? No, southern. I do not know. We are also (Buddhist laughs) camped for the last few days. We do not know much about...

Buddhist Monk (1): Much about it, yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So if you bring bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, that is called karma-yoga. Similarly, you are addicted to speculation, jñāna. When you bring bhakti and mix with it, then it is jñāna-miśra-bhakti or jñāna-yoga. So, this things are there. Just like karma-yoga. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). This is karma-yoga. You are doing something, everyone is engaged to do something, but Kṛṣṇa says yat karoṣi, never mind, even if you are a thief. Your business is stealing-steal. Yat karoṣi means that includes everything. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam. "Give it to Me. The result, give it to Me." Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu.

Reporter: Mā phaleṣu.

Prabhupāda: This is karma-yoga—when you do not take the result. Ah? You may do whatever you like, but if you, if the result, if you give to Kṛṣṇa, that is karma-yoga.

Reporter: Hm. Yeah, but karmaṇy evādhikāras te...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Guru-gaurāṅga: They say, "All is instinct."

Prabhupāda: You say. They say, all rascals say. But actually this is independence, but because they're animals, they are directed by nature, more or less. Just like they do not... My point is they do not misuse independence as much as a human being does. You see. Just like a tiger. He is to eat animals, killing animals. He does not come to your orchard to steal your fruits. But you, rascal human being, you eat fruits and animals both. Animal, that is instinct. Animal... Suppose if you put—I've given this example many times—a bag of rice on the street. Many birds will come. But he will eat some grains, five grains, ten grains and twenty grains, as much he can eat, and go away. But you do the same favor to the human beings, there will be fight. Everyone will try to take some more quantity in the house and stock it. Therefore, the human being is more responsible for sinful activities.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?

Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...trusting in God. And then, when they realize they are not, then we can show them how to trust in God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You do not know. You come to us and learn how to trust, how to know. And if you speak lies that you do not know what is God that is a different thing. Then you should be punished." People should be given chance of believing, trusting in God. They have declared. So it is their duty. The state duty is to see how people are trusting. That is state's duty. Constitution says that nobody can steal. Is it not state's duty that people are not becoming thieves and stealing? Is it not the duty of the state? Similarly, if you, if you have accepted this that "In God we trust," you must see that everyone trusts in God. And that is scientifically. Not sentimentally. It is the duty of the state to see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like in an empty slogan. The slogan is empty.

Prabhupāda: So that is not required. It must be practical. Empty slogan has no meaning.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: But in our literature we find Kṛṣṇa has some transcendental pastimes of anger, but that He does not, it is man's own reaction activities, that bring upon destruction. How are these two...?

Prabhupāda: No. All the qualities that we find within this material world, all of them must have come from God. If there is wrath within this material world, it must have come from God because God is the origin of everything. That is the Vedānta-sūtra. Brahman, Absolute Truth, means the source of everything. Whatever we have got experience within this material world, everything is there in God. That is perfection of God. You cannot say, "This thing is not in God." So aiśvaryasya samagrasya. Everything is there. Just like Kṛṣṇa stealing as a child. But apparently sometimes He does something which is not very moral. So this immorality, the so-called immorality, it is there also. That is the full conception of God. He's not lacking in anything. Under the circumstances, God is in wrath, that is correct. But that is not His only characteristic. He has got mercifulness also. Everything is there. That is God. Therefore as theologician, you should understand the correct conception of God. They have no complete conception of God. Now, God is described in the dictionary as the Supreme Being. Is it not?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Everyone agrees on that.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol. The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom—"Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing"—that means next stage is your punishment. That is going on.
Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are doing everything to stop his suffering.

Karandhara: They will say, "Why? If that's what they deserve, why try to stop it?"

Prabhupāda: No, because he has come here to suffer. You cannot expect in the prison life a very comfortable life. You must suffer. But if somebody goes there, that "Don't commit stealing anymore. Come out and don't come here again," so that is required.

Rūpānuga: Just because a man goes in the prisonhouse doesn't mean his thieving is cured. He will come out a thief unless he is actually rectified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Otherwise again he will commit the same thing and again he will come. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Therefore he requires instruction, good instruction. Sometimes government invites. We were invited that Ahmedabad jail. You remember?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, there was big meeting of the prisoners. Kīrtana, everything, yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gods?

Viṣṇujana: With guns, with guns.

Prabhupāda: Oh, guards.

Viṣṇujana: With guns. So no one will steal.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: That is their Deity. They are worshiping. They have guards.

Devotee: They don't pray God, who has made all of this.

Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table." So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin. That's all. Such fools are there. You see. It is simply exploiting the innocent public of their money, hard-earned money. That's all. And if you go to such foundation that "Give us some money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, printing these books," "No, no. We are not interested in religion. We are for scientific improvement, glycerin."

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Four regulative principles compulsory.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Mr. Sar: Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3).

Prabhupāda: Yes, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all, so many millions and millions of living entities are there. They are not interested. They are just like animals: "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Nobody's interested what is the success of life, siddhi. They do not know. They think, "If I..." Now, especially in this age, if you can eat sumptuously then it is siddhi, all siddhi. Yes. Udāraṁ bharita, svārtham udāraṁ bharita. That just we see people are so lazy. If they can eat their daily food some way or other, begging, borrowing and stealing, just like animals...

Dr. Patel: They have got ūdara-śiṣṇu-parāyanaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Parāyanaḥ. So they think, "Now my day's business is finished. Now I have eaten." And dakṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. And if one man can maintain a family of four, five, men, "Oh, he's Mahārāja Dakṣa." Mahārāja Dakṣa, you know? He was a great personality. He was performing yajñas. So this is Kali-yuga. Even they will not be able to maintain a wife, a few children. There is no shelter. I have seen in, all these things in western countries. They have no fixed up. Just like animals. The animal also loitering in the street or in the jungle; they are loitering in a great jungle, a great city. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Mr. Sar: No, no, we are... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...university does not teach anyone to steal, but he, he becomes a thief. Does it mean the university has taught him to become a thief? So he steals and goes to the jail. This is the position. Svabhāvas tu pravartate.

Mr. Sar: It's only the nature. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...association with the different qualities.

Mr. Sar: That he has taught within, so many adhyāyas, not only one. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...presents you instruction: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That's all. If you simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then everything finished. Everything is finished.

Mr. Sar: He is (indistinct) nānyaṁ guṇebhyaḥ kartāram...

Dr. Patel: Ah, that... (break) ...ācaret. Then he goes beyond the guṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is rogues. So what is the value of that laws? The legislative assembly means a set of rogues, and if they legislate something, what is the value of that? (break) Caught like that, yes. Because people are becoming degraded, so they elected such degraded everything. (break) Shameless. The whole nation is asking that "You resign." "No." Such shameless. (break) ...that somebody was in the room, and the outsider says, "Who is in the room?" "No, no! I am not stealing!" (laughter) "No, no, I am not stealing."

Girirāja: There's a saying that when you throw a stone in a pack of dogs, the one who is hit will scream. (break)

Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written. (break) ...one has passed stool, during daytime, due to the sunshine, the upper side is dry. So if somebody says, "This side is better than the other side. The moist side is not so good. The dry side is good." (break) ...nation, you'll find (indistinct) gentlemen, but they do not know that these things are criminals. They think it is ordinary thing, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)

Yogeśvara: No one goes into the park at night. Too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.

Yogeśvara: The little boy of President John Kennedy was in Central Park last week, and another boy came and pushed him to the ground and stole his bicycle. The president's son.

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning, stealing, and robbing. What is this picture? One horse without any...

Yogeśvara: I think it is the horse of the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: Actually, they like to work hard.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they like to work hard and they want good protection. That is their happiness. Even still in Africa, the servants, domestic servants, Africans, I have seen in Indian family, they are very happy. They are very happy, and the master also takes care of them. They want to eat sumptuously, and that's all. They have no other ambition. They don't want any motorcar or like this, no. And they work very nicely, domestic work, very clean. But sometimes they steal. That is their habit. My father used to say, "If you do not allow the servants to steal, so don't keep." Don't keep servants. "A servant who does not steal, he is not a gentleman. He must steal."

Bhagavān: He must steal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their satisfaction. So you must allow them. In old zamindar family, they will pay the manager five rupees per month, salary, and allow them to steal. That was simply a token salary that "You are servant." And the manager was so clever, he would steal, but he would not spoil the property of the master. He will manage very nicely that he will extra, make extra income and steal. The master will not be touched. Master will be happy. Master knows that "I am paying him five rupees. That is nothing." And he is constructing big building, getting his sons and daughters married very luxuriantly. Master is... Even fifty years before, there was a zamindar, Raja Manindra Candranandi. He was very magnanimous man, making various charities. So if somebody will complain, "Sir, your this servant is stealing like this," he would be very angry. The man who complains, he will be angry upon him, "Why do you come and complain?" He will not accept any complaint. Rather, he will be angry with the man who complains.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: We can see provided we get the chance.

C. Hennis: I don't consider myself to be a leader of mankind. I am very much a servant of mankind with a view to helping people to reduce the differences between them, with a view to helping people to understand one another better. In my own particular branch in which I'm concerned we endeavor to make people understand one another in the manner of an interpreter, if you like, to show, to allow people to speak and understand with one another, and to enable them to comprehend each other's problems and understand...

Prabhupāda: No. If there is actual brain, there is no problem. Just like if I have got good brain... I want to take this thing in my pocket. But if I have got brain, "No, this will be stealing," then I can refrain from it. But if I think that "It is lying here. I can take," what is that?

C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...

Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government. But it is your choice, whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. that is your choice. Government does not say that "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to the prison or to the university. You cannot say... One man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house. Immediately.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Choice to...?

Prabhupāda: To steal.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Steal.

Prabhupāda: Then immediately you are under prison. It will take some time only. Just like if you infect some disease, It will take some time to manifest, but it will be manifested. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. So in the, in the... Ordinarily, you can steal and hide yourself, but in the eyes of God, you cannot steal and hide yourself. That is not possible. You have stolen; you must suffer. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa: The scientists are making artificial food; so they're not that worried.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is... That I say bolts and nuts. That artificial food means bolts and nuts. Somebody told me that they have manufactured artificial butter and by eating they were vomiting. They're vomiting. There is ample butter supply. Why these rascals are interested in manufacturing artificial butter to show their scientific brain? Just see how they are rascals. They can get, huh? Just like Kṛṣṇa was stealing His mother's butter and throwing it to the monkeys. Butter can be produced in that way, that everyone can eat sumptuously. No. "Kill the animals and artificial butter you eat and vomit." That's all. Just see their intelligence. And they are proud of their advanced civilization. The same example, that a man barking as a dog, people will go to see it by purchasing ticket.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Harrap: Yes, I think this is so, has always been so here, but in recent years there has been shown to be a relationship between the cholestrol level in the blood and the ratio between the saturated and polyunsaturated fat in the diet. The lower the level of polyunsaturated fat, the higher the level of cholestrol in the blood. And this has been associated with heart disease. So there is quite a move to, among many in the medical profession to prescribe diets which are low in saturated fats.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Have you got our picture, Kṛṣṇa stealing butter?

Dr. Harrap: And we are doing some quite interesting work at the dairy research laboratory aimed at making ruminants' milk, cow's milk, much more like human milk in this way by a special feeding techniques to the cows.

Prabhupāda: Yes, milk means cow's milk. Milk means cow's milk because you find in this book that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go means cow. Cow protection, cow's milk is important, not other animal's milk.

Dr. Harrap: Yes, what about human milk?

Prabhupāda: Human milk is natural.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa... We are following the leadership of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was so fond of cows, cows' milk, cows' butter, that He was stealing cows' butter. Yes. Find out that picture.

Guest (2): Brian, you said it was the proportion between polyunsaturated and...

Dr. Harrap: The ratio between them, largely.

Guest (2): I see, rather than the quantity.

Dr. Harrap: Well, you should... The advice is that you keep your general level of fats down, but of the fats that you take, you should increase the ratio between polyunsaturated and saturated. But there is quite a development of milk industry in parts of India. The complex near Annakadana(?), I think, is a very good example of this, isn't it, of the, I believe, the cooperative dairy complex.

Prabhupāda: No, practically also we see. Formerly big, big saintly person they used to live in the forest, and their livelihood was fruits and milk. They used to keep cows and draw milk from them, and whatever fruits are available in the forest, and they have given us these literatures, Vyāsadeva. So the... He has written Mahābhārata, one hundred thousand verses and similarly, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has given us eighteen thousand verses. And each verse is full of so grave meaning that if you study, it will take months and months together. So they developed such nice brain simply by drinking milk and fruits. Yes.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I think you missed that verse, jagato ahitāya. Anyway, these are the description of demonic activities. So this is practical. The last two disastrous war was waged only for this industry. This is the cause. German, they are actually in Europe very intelligent and their machine products and other things, they make very nice things. At least, I have got experience, German chemicals are first-class chemical. So they manufacture and British occupied the half of the world in their colonization, whole Africa, and they controlled India and China, Japan, yes, China, Burma, Ceylon, Australia. So these poor people, they manufactured. They have got goods enough; where to sell? As soon as they go to the British territories, "No, you cannot sell. If you want to sell, then hundred percent duty." So price increase. This was the grudge. Everyone knows. This is the cause of two wars. The jagato ahita. Now, why so much? You require a scissor? Go to a blacksmith and pay something. He'll make a scissor. "No. Produce millions of scissor." Then where is market, sir? This is going on. Produce millions of TV machine. Simple they are used for wasting time. One or two or five made for some important business. Now they are producing millions of sets. They must sell. And people are induced to purchase. And as soon as they purchase, they simply see television. Idol worship. And learning vicious things. Some unnecessary picture is produced there. They like to see it. Two train are coming and they are smashed. (laughs) I have seen some television. People are learning how to smash, how to steal, how to harass people. Things are being shown like that. Not that "You are soul. You are spirit soul. If you degrade yourself, you then get this." You make that television, that how transmigration of the soul is taking place. They have manufactured the machine, so utilize for your propaganda. We have got to do so many things. We can utilize everything.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now if they say that the killing means murdering, that means the people amongst whom Christ was preaching, they were accustomed to kill men. So what class of men they were? What was the society? A society of murderers. So what they will understand about religion, a murderer? (pause) So go further or return?

Jayatīrtha: We should probably turn around now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) If you're preaching honesty to a thief, you have to be careful that he's not stealing your watch in the meantime.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: If you're preaching honesty to a thief, he may steal your watch. So Jesus was trying to teach religion to murderers, so they murdered him.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. (aside:) Don't come very near. If you advise rascals, they'll be angry. No good result. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So we have to become very strong preacher. Then this movement will stay. If you simply take the temple worship, it will not stay very long.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying stealing is relative. Some people steal because they watch television, some people steal because they're hungry or they need things...

Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still does not understand how we can say that one activity is bad or good. For example, he said that we gave the example of thieves, but that implies that previously there was already a standard that "This is good, and this is bad." But he wants to know how he can know definitely what is good and what is bad.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.

Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves—you want to steal God's gold-therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight. Why do you claim, "This is America, my land"? Is it your land? Have your forefathers created this? Why you falsely claim like that? What is the answer? You have stolen from another party, Red Indians, and you are now claiming, "We are the proprietor." You are thieves. You are not even gentlemen. What do you think?

Pañcadraviḍa: But they say... They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"

Prabhupāda: "God is up in heaven"? What is that?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they say God...

Prabhupāda: Because the master is in heaven, or in some other place, therefore we shall steal?

Tripurāri: They say, "God gave us the land to do what we want with."

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You haven't got to leave anything, provided you understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not after leaving or accepting. We are not after this. We are after understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What... What shall I leave? Suppose if I leave city—I come here—still it is God's property. So what, what I leave? What I have got that I have to leave? Everything God's property. If you have something, then you can leave. But if you have nothing, what you will leave? It is another bogus. This is Māyāvādī theory. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Why jagan mithyā? If Brahman is satya, jagan is also satya. (break) ...means they are trying to possess, and the jñānīs are trying to leave—both of them rascals. Where is the question of possessing? Stealing. You... I want to possess, but that thing does not belong to me. Therefore it is stealing. And the jñānīs are trying to give up living. That is also not truth. But you haven't got anything, so what you are going to leave? So both are in ignorance, the karmīs and jñānīs, the yogis. Simply Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are in knowledge. Before your birth the land was there, the world was there. Everything is there. Now you came. Then how do you possess? Before your birth, things were there. How do you possess unless you steal and cheat? Hm? What is the answer?

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: From the public gardens. There is a big public garden.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Amogha: The government plants for the city to look nice.

Prabhupāda: But you are stealing.

Amogha: No, not from anyone's house.

Paramahaṁsa: From the government.

Prabhupāda: Very, very nice flowers. Such a big rose I have never seen.

Paramahaṁsa: In India they don't grow that big. They are very small.

Prabhupāda: Nobody takes care. The man also grows very small. There is no food, there is no soil. Poverty lives. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-nāśe, when a person becomes poverty-stricken, all his quality goes away. He might have very good qualification but if... (break) Unfortunately, being misguided, this position of opulence, they are misusing it, and therefore becoming hippies. Simply misusing it. Instead of utilizing the position for development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are misusing it. So timely the movement has come to your country. Just try to apply in your practical life, preach all over the world, at least all over your own country. Here also, the Australians, they have got opulence. Try to relieve them. You are American or Australian?

Jayadharma: I'm an Australian, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

ayadharma: You told Madhudviṣa Swami once in Sydney a few years ago that actually you're the biggest cheater because you're stealing away all our māyā.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I am...

Paramahaṁsa: He says that once you told Madhudviṣa Swami that you are the best cheater because you are taking away all our māyā and making us devotees.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That kind of cheating is very good. (pause) Christ also spoke about nivṛtti-mārga. "Thou shall not kill." Because they were practiced to kill, and still they are practiced to killing. The first nivṛtti, "Thou shall not kill." The same thing, "Thou shall not covet."

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the Bible..., we accept that as scripture, but is it all correct, or has it been mistranslated or...?

Prabhupāda: It is being misinterpreted still now. That means it was violated from the very beginning. And they are violating. "Thou shall not kill"; he is killing. That's all. That is the position.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But so many of us, of course, are used to it. We like it.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking about you particularly, but general way, general way. So this is first-class man. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā. Now, suppose I was not a first-class man; I was a fourth-class man. Now I want to become a first-class man. So I was eating meat. Just these boys, European, American boys, they were eating everything. Now they have given up. On my word or to associate with me, they have given up meat-eating, illicit sex, meat-eating. So in the beginning it may be disturbing because "I am habituated to all these things, and by my spiritual master order not to do this..." So it may be disturbing. But that is called titikṣā, tolerance: "No, I have to do it. If I want to make progress to become first-class man, this is order, so I must do it even..." The tolerance. Even it is disturbing... In the beginning. It is not disturbing. In the beginning, because I habituated to do something... Just like a thief. If you ask him to become honest, it will be disturbing for him because he is habituated to steal.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Gurukṛpa: I was telling them we should come pick these flowers every day, this jasmine. Nobody is picking.

Prabhupāda: Oh. No, no, they will fine.

Gurukṛpa: No, no, they don't know.

Prabhupāda: What is the use, coming here, spending so much motor oil to steal this?

Gurukṛpa: No, we are doing that anyway. We are doing that anyway. To pick these flowers daily, they are going so many places and being chased away. They would rather see them rot than to give them to us. They don't let us pick. (break)

Prabhupāda: All nonsense. They are professing I am Christian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, but they are enemies, one another. So where is their religion? Just see, common sense. Even the animals, amongst themselves, they do not say "Keep out." Sit down together. They sit down actually. The birds, beasts of the same position, they keep together. Birds of the same feather flock... But human being, having, professing so many religions-enemies. This is their civilization. They discover better religion, but enemies to the animal, to the man, everyone. Therefore Bhāgavata religion is meant for persons who are not enemies. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). That is religion. We have come to here from India not as enemy but as friend, to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is dharma. Although politically they are enemies-India is thinking "America is my enemy," or America is thinking "India is my enemy"—we do not think like that. We go everywhere, take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, be happy. This is our business. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. "Private. Keep out."

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: Oh, it is unsuccessful. Yes. I meet many people in the course of my work that are very unhappy because of the frustrations that they experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then Jesus is a fool, and he has taken contract to suffer, and these people are free to commit sin.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Jesus actually said...

Prabhupāda: And they are so clever that they can make God's son also fool. Over-clever.

Dharmādhyakṣa: (break) ...always said, "Your sins are forgiven you, go and sin no more." He always gave that injunction, "Go and sin no more." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is no description of sins in Bible? What are the sins?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killing, adultery, stealing. They mention it.

Jayatīrtha: There are Ten Commandments.

Prabhupāda: That is.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Indian guest: Gandhi believed in God, but Nehru didn't believe in God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. Everyone believes in God. That is another thing, but one must know who is God. That is advancement. Here also, the people say, "God, God is great." But as soon God comes, "Here I have come," they don't believe it.

Indian guest: These people are good chors, and actually they can steal something...

Prabhupāda: Even Dr. Radhakrishnan he did not believe Kṛṣṇa. So this is the disease. God comes personally and says, "Here I am." They won't believe. That is the difficulty.

Indian guest: Really, it is some kind of sanctifying to a person to come in contact with a real sādhu. In India I run into hundreds of sādhus, and I donate some money, but completely... Well, this poverty probably has brought this corruption, in that whole temple. I go to Benares and I go to Mathurā and I go to any temple, Badnatham(?), and those people only they are after money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Firemen?

Brahmānanda: Yeah. So all the wives and girlfriends of the firemen, they have lodged a protest because they are afraid... Because the firemen, they, often they have nothing to do. So they are afraid that if there are women firemen that the women firemen will steal away the husbands. So they have made a protest. Because practically they have to remain together. They have to live together in the firehouse.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is bondage.

Brahmānanda: Well, they're afraid that there will be illicit activity between the firemen and the firewomen. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Now they're changing the names. Anything that implies sexism they want to change the name. Just like "seamstress," now they have to call, "sewing machine operator." Because "seamstress" implies that it's a woman's job. So they say, "sewing machine operator." Or "firemen," they have to say, "fire prevention operator" or something like that.

Kirtiraja: Mailman?

Jayatīrtha: Mailperson.

Kirtirāja: Mailperson. But then they can't even do that because it's male.

Revatīnandana: (indistinct)

Bahulāśva: They're going crazy now in this country, Prabhupāda. Men are having operations to become like women.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a student here? (laughter)

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So our process is to cleanse the heart, not the opulence or poverty. No, that is not our... To cleanse the heart. If the poor man is cleansed in his heart he will not touch anybody's property. I heard that King, Emperor Edward VII, his habit was to steal.

Lt. Mozee: Yes, he was a kleptomaniac. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law. The professional murderer, he knows the law. But still, he commits because heart is unclean. And our process, to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), it is Sanskrit, "Cleansing the heart." Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, "Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved."

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) I saw on the airplane. So it has struck me, yes, that this is the position of the human society.

Lt. Mozee: Yeah, Govinda dāsa told me that you had read this on your way in, so I brought a copy. I didn't know whether you wanted to quote from it. But I was ready to be prepa... I was prepared.

Prabhupāda: You have read it?

Lt. Mozee: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is a problem. Actually it is a problem. Such a rich state as America, and there is crime. It does not look well. Yes.

Lt. Mozee: Hm. True. It's our number one problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is the solution.

Lt. Mozee: It's our number one problem. Now, when the people see the politician and the affluent stealing they say, "Why not? It's good for them; it's good for me." Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: When you ignite fire, you require dry wood. But if you ignite fire, at the same time pour water, then how it will burn? Don't pour water. Therefore we have so many "don'ts." "Don'ts" means that you are burning the fire. Go on. Don't add water. And that is "don't." If you ignite fire, at the same time add water, then how it will burn? Water is the counter-ingredient of fire. If you want to extinguish fire, then add water. But if you want to prolong the fire burning, then you should not add water. So this material enjoyment, illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, gambling, one should be free from these water-like things while you are in the fire of spiritual consciousness. Don't bring these things. You cannot go on burning the fire, at the same time adding water. Then it will be useless waste of time. Anartha upaśamam. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. Bhakti-yogam means anartha, unwanted things, upaśamam, subsiding. This is anartha. Just like we don't eat meat. Are we dying for want of meat? But they have taken it that without eating meat they will die. This is nonsense. And they are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, committing sinful life, only for misunderstanding. They do not see that "Here are some persons. They do not eat meat. They look very bright-faced. Why should I eat meat?" Anartha, unnecessarily, simply for the taste of the tongue, they are committing so much sinful activities. So just we are teaching, "Just control your tongue." That is called śamaḥ damaḥ." Because the tongue wants something, I have to eat, give it—that is not human civilization. If I control my tongue-tongue wants this thing; I say, "No, not this thing; you take this thing,"—then you are master. You are master of the senses. Otherwise you are servant of the senses. Because some of my senses want something... That is natural. But if I can control: "No, this not. This," that is called śamaḥ, damaḥ. And if I become victim of the dictation of the senses, then I cannot make progress in my spiritual life; I am third-class, fourth-class man. Mind wants to steal something. If you can control, "No, why stealing?" Then you are master. (end)
Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: ...already very much attraction for this material world. That is called māyā. And when we are involved with these things, material prosperity, then we become more involved. On account of our material attachment, we are getting repetition of birth and death in different forms of life, and these attractions are making us more and more involved. māyāra vaibhava. People are becoming illusioned, "I am American. My country is so rich. I shall live here." But you cannot live. He is preparing for another body. So therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya soṁsāre, moha janamiya, jība ke karaye gadha. Anityad means we shall not be able to stay. Unnecessarily, we are becoming involved in this material world. Now, those who built up this nation, where they have gone, nobody can say. Because after this body is fallen, where he is being carried, nobody knows. He is carried by his work, fruitive activities. Therefore they do not believe next life. Finished. (break) ...gentleman, he was very well known, brother of Rabindranath Tagore. Rabindranath Tagore was poet, and he was artist, Abanindranath Tagore. In our childhood, in a meeting, he said that "Why should we bother about the next life? Let us enjoy this life." I remember that. Most people think like that. Carvāka Muni advised like that. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Just enjoy life." "I have no money to enjoy." "Beg, borrow or steal. Bring money. Purchase ghee." "I will have to pay." "Ah! Why do you think like that?" "Then next life I will suffer." "Don't think like that. Your body will be finished. Who is coming here again?" What is that tower?

Kīrtanānanda: Lighthouse.

Morning Walk -- July 31, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: And who is advising CIA?

Brahmānanda: The president. Nixon used to use the CIA to... If he had any enemy, he would have the CIA investigate that man. He was using it for his personal political purposes. (break) ...testing. In the early 1960's they were testing the effects of LSD, and so they gave LSD secretly into this one officer's coffee drink. And he drank it. He did not know it was LSD, and he went crazy and committed suicide. So now this investigation of CIA has uncovered this information. So now the family of this officer, they are suing the CIA for millions of dollars. (break) ... regular business of breaking into foreign embassies. In New York and Washington they did over 1500 break-ins, photographing documents, stealing coding machines. Sometimes when they would break in at night into one embassy, they would meet agents of another country who also were breaking into the same embassy, and they would salute one another. (laughter) It's a regular business.

Prabhupāda: They will not kill each other?

Brahmānanda: No, they respected one another because they were both after the same embassy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...black government is going on all over the world. What they will think of people's welfare?

Brahmānanda: They are all against us.

Prabhupāda: Simply political gain.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Take as many bricks as you like. And we have got one address. You have taken, Agra, they will supply this lime. (break) (Hindi) ...rich men. Still, they are adulterating cement. (Hindi) (break) I heard it from very reliable source, my teacher. He was second teacher in my school, graduate, very good gentleman. He said that Edward VIII, er, VII, he was stealing jewels. You see?

Indian man (3): A very bad habit.

Prabhupāda: Emperor of British Empire, and he was a thief. Just see.

Brahmānanda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry. I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. (break) It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: Why are we evil?

Prabhupāda: No, God says that "You become devotee of Me." You do not become. That is your fault. Therefore you must... Just like government does not say that you become criminal. Government says, "You become educated. You become high-court judge, become big officer." Why you become criminal, pickpocket? Does government give any education for becoming pickpocket? Hm? Is there any institution how to steal, how to become pickpocket? (laughter) Then why do you become? Just see. (break) ...eatables you can collect, and I shall show you how to cook in the cooker. One boy. You also see, because nobody will go there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa is getting his visa today.

Prabhupāda: So we can return. (break) Whole educational system is defective because there is no spiritual education. That has made everything impossible.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Why the thief goes to the prisonhouse? He knows that "If I go to the prisonhouse, I will be put into distress."

Cyavana: But the government is not strong enough to force him not to go, not to steal.

Prabhupāda: Why government is not strong enough?

Cyavana: The government doesn't have the power to control everyone. But Kṛṣṇa can...

Prabhupāda: No. Even if he's strong enough, you disobey. The government has made so many things that you cannot steal, the iron chest, but still, you are clever enough that you do.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The independence is there. Sometimes people ask, Prabhupāda, that if the spiritual world is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), full of bliss, then how is it that, somehow or another, we've left that blissful situation and come into this hellish...

Prabhupāda: This argument we have talked many times. Everyone knows that out of prisonhouse freedom is there. Why he goes to the prisonhouse? Everyone knows it. Why does he go to the prisonhouse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not by choice. He is placed there.

Morning Walk -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: And that Suez Canal is closed, complete?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it's open again. (break) It is not as Westernized as in a place like Nairobi.

Prabhupāda: The Africans are all thieves.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Here there is not as much stealing as in Nairobi. (break) I think they have had to amputate afterwards, mangled by the shore. It happens frequently. On some of the beaches here they've put up signs that "There are many sharks in the water. It is dangerous to bathe here." Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, "Amongst fish, I am the shark." (Prabhupāda chuckles) He shaved off his beard yesterday, this young boy. He shaved off. He had beard. He shaved off.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Further progress.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...900,000 forms of life in the water. How many they have seen? They are giving pictures. (break) Calcium carbonate, oil wintergreen, and soap powder, powder hard soap, and I will make toothpaste.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is the incentive, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Some of them steal. Instead of working, they steal their food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Steal... When he is arrested, then he has to work in the prison. That's all.

Harikeśa: Chopping rocks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise whipping. In Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that instead of keeping yourself lazy without working, better to steal. Better to steal.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How is that?

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is there. Stealing is bad work, bad work. It is also working, but bad work. So Kṛṣṇa recommends that instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work.

Harikeśa: "Action is better than inaction."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: A man cannot even keep his own body in shape.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So stealing is still better than keeping oneself lazy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "It is better to perform one's duty, even though it may be imperfect, than to perform another's duty"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (laughter)

Harikeśa: I've always wondered... The food will be taken care of in a perfect varṇāśrama society; government is taken care of...

Prabhupāda: Government means you, like rascal fools like you. So how you will take care?

Harikeśa: When it is properly set up.

Prabhupāda: First of all you see the government, what is government? Government means a pack of rascals and fools. That's all. This is modern government. All these thieves and rogues are voted to be government men. So how you expect good government? It is not possible. "People's government." All people are rascals. That means government rascal. People's government.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. One day, fifth day, and like that. In seven months how it is developed. Everything is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Then you can display the hell, different hells.

Girirāja: Different hells.

Bhāgavata: Hells, oh, Fifth Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How one is going by cheating others, by stealing. So everything. You can display, what is called? That planetary system?

Indian man (1): Planetarium?

Prabhupāda: Planetarium. According to planetarium.

Dr. Patel: They have got a big planetarium in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got, but we have also got. So it is little difference. Just like we are calculating that the sun is the beginning of the planets, sun, then moon. Therefore we say "Sunday, Monday." This is very quite reasonable. Tuesday.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You know Bengali?

Devotee (4): No, Subhaga has spoken to me, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Harikeśa: Well, it's better to enjoy than to suffer.

Prabhupāda: And where is enjoyment? The thief also thinks like that: "Let me enjoy by stealing." Then, when he goes to the prison, then his enjoyment finished. If somebody gives you so many rasagullā, that "You take this rasagullā, and after finishing, I shall beat you with shoes," then will you take? (laughter) This is enjoyment. No sane man will like to enjoy like that. "Take this rasagullā, and after this, I will beat you with shoes, as many rasagullā you have taken." Will you take it?

Harikeśa: Yes, but I eat rasagullās every day and nobody beats me with shoes.

Prabhupāda: Why the other day you told me, "I am now not... I cannot see. My brain is..."? Is it not beating with shoes? (laughter) Eh? Don't you agree?

Indian man (5): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Huh? Everyone, but they are so rascal.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And this culture cannot be maintained unless one is God conscious. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). There cannot be any culture for a godless person. That is not possible. And, yasyāsti-bhaktir bhagavaty-akiñcanā. Just like this European and American boy is offering obeisances to the guru, this is culture. Why he has learned this culture? Because he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you make one devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all culture will automatically come. One thing. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: So all devotees are cultured?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Theirs is really culture. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tam manye' dhitam uttamam, śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu-smaraṇam pāda-sevanam arcanam. Tam manye' dhityam uttamam, he is first-class educated. This is recommendation by Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says, "If one is not God-conscious: duṣkṛtino, mūḍhā, narādhamā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā." Where is their qualification? Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha. Where is culture? Suppose you steal by tricks, by, I mean to say, by legal tricks, does it mean it is culture? But that is going on.

Dr. Patel: That means, sir, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ, yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). That should be the background of all the governments.

Prabhupāda: That is bhagavad-bhakti... (end)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Indian man: And another question reply was also very convin..., that all other are gods, but He is Godhead. That is very clinching expla.... Some of these things are really direct replies.

Prabhupāda: And actually that is fact.

Indian man: This was.... Even Acyutānanda said the other day. Somebody asked us that question, "Why not 'God conscious'? Why do you want 'Kṛṣṇa'?" He also said the same thing. (break) "What is the difference between thieving the butter and other things by Lord Kṛṣṇa and thieving by us?" I said "The thieving is thieving." I said, "How can there be theft of..." (break)

Prabhupāda: And if you steal, you will be beaten with shoes.

Indian man: We are beaten with shoes, but He is allowed.

Prabhupāda: Not only allowed, but He is worshiped: "Sir, it is very kind of You that You have stolen."

Indian man: That is what.... In forensic language it is called abet, abetted. The very owner abets, "It is kind of you to have committed theft of this." (end)

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God. Same sense grati.... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and.... No. I shall become God. Why shall I.... By becoming king or minister I beg to the goddess of fortune, 'Mother, give me a little money.' Why shall I beg? I shall enjoy her. I become Nārāyaṇa." Same disease. A yogi also, after mystic power they want to show magic: "I shall make like this and gold will be there. People will worship me as I am God." Do that.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is Vivekananda, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The answer is that if you do not prepare rasagullā for Kṛṣṇa, then there will be no supply of rasagullā. So everything will be finished. Because bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Anyone who is preparing rasagullā for himself or expanded himself, so they simply become implicated with sinful activities. So if you are... Suppose if you prepare rasagullā, stealing from the shopkeeper sugar and..., then how long you will go on? One day you'll be captured. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). What is that verse? Stena eva sa ucyate. (Bengali) Yajña-puruṣa. Real point is to satisfy. You cannot supply rasagullā, but if you supply rasagullā as prasādam, then the rasagullā-eater is benefited, you are benefited, and Kṛṣṇa is pleased.

Jayapatākā: But some devotees say that "In cooking rasagullā for Kṛṣṇa and the masses, I got my hand burnt. So now I want to practice on my own how to make rasagullā. When I become expert, then again I'll make for the masses."

Prabhupāda: You can prepare for Kṛṣṇa so that your hands will be saved. Because you are thinking in that way, that "Let me prepare for myself," therefore your hands is burned. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13).

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Why they look inquisitive? No commentary. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Cent percent cheater beginning from the top. They have lost their own culture, Vedic civilization, and they are not competent to earn properly. They must be cheater. Beg, borrow, steal. They have lost their own culture; therefore they have no one honest. Formerly Indians were so honest that after one man's death, his son comes... Even we have seen it in childhood. "Sir, my father took from you the five thousand rupees. So now he is dead, so I have come to pay you." So he says, "I never seen my account that your father has taken five thousand rupees from me. I cannot take it." This is India. One man is offering him five thousand, that "We are debtor to you. Please take it." And he says, "No, I don't find in my account that your father took five thousand. I cannot take it." And now they are cheating. This is India's position. Even in our childhood I have see that Mr. C. R. Das, his father died insolvent some lakhs of rupees. So when he became a big barrister he called every one of them that "My father died insolvent. Now I have got money. You take it." This was India. And now they have become cheaters. This is svarāj, independence. Even in British times there was C. R. Das who liquidated the debts of his insolvent father. "My father died insolvent. He could not pay, so he declared insolvency in the court. Now I have got money. You take it." This was India.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotees: Cucumber.

Prabhupāda: "I shall steal. I shall steal one cucumber." And another one thinks, "If I steal, I shall steal the diamond." But the stealing propensity is there, hīrā-cora or kṣīrā-cora. "Well, I am stealing one..., only one cucumber. That is not very dangerous." But, but to the eyes of law, both of them are criminal, either you take hīrā or kṣīrā. Big thief and small thief, that's all. Thief. You are thief. So we manufacture concoction that "Yes, I have got this stealing propensity. So I'll not steal diamond. I'll steal kṣīrā, not hīrā." This is only mental concoction, but he is a thief.

Jayapatākā: I think this side's...

Prabhupāda: Hm ?

Jayapatākā: So gṛhastha life is Kṛṣṇa allowing us to steal kṣīrā?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes, kṣīrā-cora. The prostitute-hunter is hīrā-cora, and he's a kṣīrā-cora. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Where is this?

Rāmeśvara: That is near Atlanta.

Prabhupāda: All right. (break) ...He taught them to steal then: "Mother is not giving. You steal." That picture is going on. (break) Juhu is so small?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes, we should have made it bigger.

Rāmeśvara: The size of the cart is restricted.

Pañcadraviḍa: What year is that?

Rāmeśvara: Recently.

Revatīnandana: It was this past year or the year before last when we had it. Two years ago it was full.

Prabhupāda: They want to stop it. That is their... (break) A new temple?

Jayatīrtha: Old temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) Who was talking about casting?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was in Australia, Adelaide. Cittahārī.

Prabhupāda: This is very nice. This mūrti should be standard.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: Never gets solved. Nine out of every ten crimes never gets solved in America.

Prabhupāda: No, it cannot be solved.

Pañca-draviḍa: It's more than that, probably.

Madhudviṣa: So the criminal is very much encouraged, because he has only one chance in ten of getting caught whether he robs a bank or steals or rapes or something like that.

Prabhupāda: But for this purpose they are maintaining huge police force, and you are earning money and tax, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: The police all accept bribes.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: They all accept bribes or they do some illegal business themselves with the criminals they capture.

Prabhupāda: Yes, regular... Every criminal has got organization to bribe the police. And the police does not take directly, and some in-between man, agent, he collects from the criminal and gives to the police. In India this is going on. I know that. A via-media man, he makes fortune. Yes. Whatever is collected, ten percent he takes, and balance is given to the police. There is a confectioner in Delhi. He is selling jalebi. You know jalebi?

Devotees: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So if this is the practice in a country which is so opulent, just imagine what is there in India.

Pañcadraviḍa: I had experience, because when I was younger I was stealing, and I was taking to the hock shop one typewriter, and while I was taking to the hock shop this typewriter, the police came and showed me his badge and took this typewriter and one French horn from... He took the money, and he said, "I am going to check to see if this is stolen." So one week later I was worried. I called him. I said, "What is happening?" He said, "That typewriter was reported one year ago stolen from the school." But he said, "Because I think you're a good boy, I'm not going to arrest, you because I don't think you did it. If I thought for a moment you did it, I would immediately come and take you." So I said, "That's all right. What about the French horn? When can I have my money back?" He said, "You just forget about this. You leave it to me."

Prabhupāda: To keep you honest. (laughter) To keep you honest, you just don't hope your money.

Guru-krpa: Their practice is that they watch our saṅkīrtana devotees collect all day, and they know when he has good pocketful of money. Then they arrest him...

Prabhupāda: In Germany they have done this.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish question. Unless you have got independence, what is your life? Then you are dead stone. You want to become a dead stone? That is not Kṛṣṇa's concern. Kṛṣṇa does not give such perfection, that you become a dead stone.

Acyutānanda: "The thing is that because Kṛṣṇa knows the future, past, present, and future, so He knew that we would fall down, so why didn't He help me?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, future means, just like.... This is the law of nature, that if you steal, you'll be punished. So if I say, "Oh, you are stealing; you'll be punished," this is future. Suppose this is the month of March, and if I say, "In the month of July there will be rain." So I know; you know; everyone knows. This is not a future telling. The natural sequence is everyone knows it.

Madhudviṣa: But does that means that Kṛṣṇa doesn't know something?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.... If everyone knows, why Kṛṣṇa does not know? "He knows everything" means this common sense everyone knows.

Madhudviṣa: Does He know what you will choose?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Just try to understand. Future means like this: nature's law; and it will happen. After summer there will be rainy season; it will happen, and they will call, I am foretelling future. It is not future; it is natural sequence, automatically happened.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole British Museum means stolen properties from many countries, that's all, especially in India.

Yaśodānandana: Prabhupāda, I have heard that previously in India, some paṇḍita says, that when they used to put the jewels on the Deities they used to put some mantra that, when they install the Deity, that "Whoever takes this mantra will never be able to have peace or will die," some curse mantras.

Yaśodānandana: Whoever steals the jewels.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is possible.

Rādhāvallabha: Even just recently they were laughing at this curse, and they took the jewel from Sītā-devī in their car to go to the museum, and their car crashed on the way.

Pañca-draviḍa: Did they die?

Rādhāvallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.

Prabhupāda: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has crashed.

Prabhupāda: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death? (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: When somebody is dying and his external consciousness is completely absorbed in all kinds of terrible bodily symptoms, how is it that a devotee remembers Kṛṣṇa? What is actually happening that he's able to remember Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Devotee generally remembers Kṛṣṇa. But even if he cannot, Kṛṣṇa will help him.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, you have to...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Completely ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Just like a thief. He also has got the conscience, "Why shall I steal?"

Ātreya Ṛṣi: "This or this."

Prabhupāda: "This or this." But he knows that "If I do it, I shall be punished."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when an individual spirit...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that actual freedom, though? Is that freedom?

Prabhupāda: No, I have already said that you cannot have absolute freedom.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but is the spirit soul implicated in that decision in any way, or is it just the modes of nature working, "Well, I'll take this instead of that."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the spirit soul implicated in that decision, or is it...

Prabhupāda: What is that decision?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Let's say, "I'll go to the cinema, or I'll go to the restaurant." So is the spirit soul implicated in that decision in any way, or is it simply the three modes of material nature working?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The three modes.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what is your...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a situation. Either I'll go to the cinema or I'll go to the restaurant. So is the spirit soul...

Prabhupāda: Both of them are sinful.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) And when she decided to kill Kṛṣṇa, she was killed.

Dr. Patel: And Kṛṣṇa gave...

Prabhupāda: Yes, she got good fortune.

Dr. Patel: Gave her the mukti.

Prabhupāda: Kambhat? Kambhata? Kambhata means this...(?)

Dr. Patel: This aviation fellow.

Prabhupāda: No, that what is called? Kambhata.(?)

Dr. Patel: ...he has got some planes here. Some safari service. (break)

Guru dāsa: Why? Why not technology?

Dr. Patel: I don't know.

Guru dāsa: Because the Vedas is the essence of everything. That's why. There's technology here. Why we don't steal the technology?

Dr. Patel: We have no technology. That is our technology. You are taking our technology.

Guru dāsa: So why you are not taking your technology, the Vedic system?

Dr. Patel: We have ourselves the original technology.

Guru dāsa: Indians should take the Vedic technology. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.

Devotee (1): They have a saying, "Honor among thieves."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) This has been named by father, kaitava, simply cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). The duplicity, hypocrisy, is there completely rejected.

Guru-kṛpā: Kṛṣṇa is a better cheater, though. He will cheat them in the end.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not cheater. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is so powerful that anyone who is a cheater, he will be cheated, that's all, automatically. (break) If you infect some disease, you'll have to suffer, automatically. It is not that the disease has to be injected. No. Because you have infected, you'll suffer. The same law is there. You have done this sinful. You'll suffer that. That is the cycle of birth and death. You have created mentality. You'll become the same animal, and you suffer. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). (break) ...we have. We have seen this cloud, extraordinary.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Buddha means "one who knows, in perfect awareness." That is buddha. Buddha. In Bhagavad-gītā this word is there, buddha. From buddha, budh-dhātu. (break) ...see the Sanskrit word, bodhave. Budha-bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you mentioned two different types of servitors. One is seeking to steal the property of the master as soon as the master is gone, and the other is sitting waiting...

Prabhupāda: He's thief; he's not servant. He's a thief. He has taken service as a matter of means that "If I remain as a servant, I'll get the opportunity of stealing." So he's not a servant, he's a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). (break) ...becoming a thief, if you have got some desire, you ask, "Kṛṣṇa, I am very poor. Please give me some money." That you can do. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. Ārtaḥ, one who is distressed, he's praying. That is beginning. But when he's advanced.... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He'll say, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varam..., "Now I'm satisfied. I don't want anything." That is perfect stage. But even one goes to God and prays for something, he's called pious. Because he has approached God. And because he has approached God and he's asking God, there is some transaction in this way, by association of God, he'll be purified. One day he will say, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42), "Now, I am fully satisfied. I don't want anything. I don't trouble You. Let me serve You." (break) Why the devotee will ask from God? Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham, teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānām (BG 9.22). He says the responsibility, "I shall supply everything, whatever you want." So why the devotee will ask? If the child knows, "My father is there, my mother is...," why he shall ask? The father will take care whatever he wants. It is unfaithful that "God cannot supply my necessities. I'll have to ask Him." He knows everything. Why shall I ask Him? That is pure knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They were writing, their lawyers were writing our Society letters that "You cannot use the words 'Transcendental Meditation.' Maharishi has made up this process and you are stealing from him."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's stealing from Kṛṣṇa.

Bharadvāja: Yesterday you gave an example of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream, walking on the beach. What is the full...? Because we're going to try to make an exhibit of it. So what is the full analogy? Is he actually going to another place by his mind, he's actually transported?

Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he kept the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That already, he took that "I have to steal to pay so much money. Give me." That's all right. So these are, scientists are doing like that. At the end, how many husbands your wife has got.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scientists are doing the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Taking money.

Rādhāvallabha: They have one argument, that during solar eclipse, the moon appears to pass in front of the sun, between the sun and the earth.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda explains that. It is the Rāhu planet.

Rādhāvallabha: But they are viewing the moon. The moon is right there, they can see it. And all of a sudden it goes in front of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? Moon is there, sun is there. Now which first? That is the question.

Rādhāvallabha: They will say that they've observed in their telescopes...,

Prabhupāda: They'll say..., whatever they'll say it is all right. First of all, say why Sunday first. Then talk all nonsense. First of all, answer this. You cannot say "We believe that Sunday first." What is the fact? Why do you bring moon, Monday? Why not bring...?

Rādhāvallabha: They will say it is arbitrary order.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhāvallabha: Then they will get back to their argument.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Rāmeśvara: Disobeying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the.... "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not be an adulterer." Those are the big ones.

Rāmeśvara: "Covet thy neighbor's property, steal. Dishonor the mother and father, the cow, the earth, God."

Prabhupāda: Cows?

Rāmeśvara: Well, there's one of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father." But the mother is one of the cows, the earth. I mean the earth is the mother, the cow is the mother.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So they dishonor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no eyes to see that actually we are following strictly the teachings of Jesus.

Rāmeśvara: And they always say that Jesus ate fish. They always use that as an argument.

Prabhupāda: Jesus ate fish, therefore we shall eat our sons? Is that any reason? Jesus ate fish, therefore I shall eat my son.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."

Hari-śauri: One of the great things is that they like to drink wine as well, because Jesus drank wine.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, he drank wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he didn't go to the bar. The way he drank wine was in a sacrifice. You're drinking in a bar. So anyway, we should tell them, if you...

Prabhupāda: Jesus drank wine, but nobody said Jesus is a drunkard.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So then...

Prabhupāda: Animal life means there is no sin. It is promotion. Because they are animal, their consciousness is not developed. Just like a child—a child, if he steals, that is not sin. He will not be criminally charged. He is child. A dog goes left to the right or right to the.... He is not criminal. But if you do, you are criminal.

Rāmeśvara: So Yamarāja does not direct the movements of the living entities as they are going automatically from animal body to higher body.

Prabhupāda: An animal is not jurisdiction of Yamarāja. The man is in the jurisdiction of.... Just like law is meant for man, not for the cats and dogs.

Rāmeśvara: So what determines the different varieties of dogs and cats if they are just automatically being...?

Prabhupāda: Not automatically. You are man. If you develop a dog's mentality, the Yamarāja puts you in the dog's body. And then you again develop, come to the man's body. That means your term of imprisonment finished. You become again man. Now again decide. And again if you become a dog's mentality, again go. This is going on.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Purport: "How money can be dearer than life is indicated in this verse. Thieves may enter the house of a rich man to steal money at the risk of their lives. Because of trespassing they may be killed by guns or attacked by watchdogs, but still they try to commit burglary. Why do they risk their lives? Only to get some money. Similarly, a professional soldier is recruited into the army, and he accepts such service, with the risk of dying on the battlefield, only for the sake of money. In the same way, merchants go from one country to another on boats at the risk of their lives, or they dive into the water...

Prabhupāda: In 1942 I have seen when war was going on, so, these Britishers wanted soldiers, so they created artificial famine. The people became in need of money, so they enrolled them as soldiers. I have seen it. There was no other way to get money to get commodities at higher price. Artificial famine. There was no food grains available, but black market it is available. Black market means more price, but they had no money. So to get this money, they enrolled as soldiers. This was Mr. Churchill's policy.

Rādhāvallabha: That's going on now in America. Previously they had to force men to join the Army because they had such a shortage. Now, because there are so few jobs, it is harder to get into the Army. Even volunteers, there are so many volunteers just to get a job that they have too many practically.

Prabhupāda: Even in Army there is no service? They don't want?

Rādhāvallabha: Now they want because they can't get a job.

Hṛdayānanda: More selective.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Devotee: A boy said today it was like heaven on earth.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? That's nice.

Jayādvaita: The only place I found some difficulty is that sometimes if there is some discrepancy in behavior of our students, some petty stealing or something like that, then that is...

Prabhupāda: That you have to train our men so that they may be well behaved.

Jayādvaita: In Laguna Beach we had so many complaints, that they were trying to stop the temple. And their main complaint was that the devotees were taking flowers from people's gardens and without any permission, without any, simply taking. And just on that account they wanted to stop us. Some petty stealing, fifty dollars worth of flowers.

Prabhupāda: So why our devotees should take flowers from them? Stop it.

Jayādvaita: Yes, I stopped it. Instead I sent a letter to the neighbors that no one is taking flowers and we are planting a big garden. Now they've done that, and the neighbors come and they appreciate that such a nice garden is there, they remark.

Prabhupāda: You can make them friends, that "Your flowers in the garden will dry and fall down, so while it is fresh, if it is offered to God, and you'll get benefit out of it, why you object?" Yes. That's a fact.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The state is in the management of official trustee. And this trustee in charge of the trust board men, they give us so much trouble and exploit the position for his personal profit. I have seen. Horrible. For instance, I can give you, if in some property there is some repair, it will cost you, say, one hundred rupees. And they'll give it to a contractor, and the contractor will present a bill, twelve hundred rupees. And he'll pass. And the contractor will be given, say, two hundred rupees, and balance he'll take. I have seen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Stealing from the trust.

Prabhupāda: In this way he's.... The money's in his hand. If you want money for expenditure, so if I press you, you have need of money, so you do everything, give some back, get the money. You are in urgent need. Everywhere. All, whole world they have become dishonest. Even the high-court judges, magistrate, they are getting bribe.

Hari-śauri: It's an extremely difficult situation

Prabhupāda: Extremely. They've lost their religious sentiment, religious consciousness. They're just like rude, crude. There was one chief minister in Punjab, he got a big business, big man, "Mr. such and such, I'm sending such and such man. Give him ten thousand rupees without waiting for his reply." "So what for?" "Why you are asking? Give him ten thousand rupees." And the man goes, and he has to pay; otherwise he knows that "This minister will harass me in so many ways later on."

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: And addicted people, they, they're after the.... Get money some way or other. Beg, borrow or steal. So these black men especially, they are expert. They are not expert in begging, but borrowing and stealing.

Jagadīśa: Is it possible, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will, in the future, turn the tide and gain predominating influence? Change...

Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.

Hari-śauri: He was finished when you told him it was all imaginary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. What you can do?

Jagadīśa: Other than yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no one in the world has a vision how to save the world.

Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Nobody can count unless he learns it from the teacher.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, but...

Prabhupāda: So therefore for knowledge, you have to go to a proficient man or person, that is knowledge. Why do you go to a school and college? Be in knowledge at home. If you want to steal even, you have to learn it from a professional thief, how to cheat, how to steal. That is also another kind of knowledge. You cannot steal unless you become expert by learning how to steal from an expert thief. So knowledge means you have to receive it from higher authority. That is knowledge.

Kulādri: What if one has material desire? How does he gain the desire for spiritual knowledge?

Prabhupāda: That means you are cats and dogs. The dog has no inquisitiveness. Therefore you are no better than the dog. The dog never comes to a spiritual master, "Give me some knowledge." Therefore you are as good as the dog. That is your qualification.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now there is distinction between two types of knowledge. If knowledge means understanding...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any knowledge, if you want to get it, you must receive it from a superior person. That is the law. That I already explained. If you want to steal, if you want to become a thief, you have to learn it from an expert thief. So any knowledge. Knowledge means you have to learn it from a superior person. And what to speak of the knowledge of God. That is the ultimate knowledge. Yesterday we were speaking that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja learned how to make samosas. Now that knowledge is distributed. So every knowledge, you have to learn it from an expert. That is called guru. Guru means expert. Heavy. Who's knowledge is heavier than your scanty knowledge. You have to learn knowledge. Guru means heavy. Therefore Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You must. Abhigacchet, this word is used when the sense is "must." Not optional, that I may go or I may not go. No, you must. This is Vedic injunction.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said, "God is talking with them from within."

Prabhupāda: To any rascal. Does any rascal know that God is within? And He's witnessing all criminalities. Does he accept that? Then the yogis should not have illicit connection with their disciples. Do they believe God is...? It is simply business for earning money and getting woman. They have no other... Valueless. Therefore the government has said, "Fake." What is that? Actually that is a fact. So many rascals are coming, especially in America. Government, they are seeing, "What is this?" "Transcendental meditation and do whatever nonsense you like." Guru Maharajaji: "No use of books." Practically we are saving the whole world. What can be done? There are so many rascals. Let us do it sincerely. And if we also become victimized, then it will be stopped. Āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā bhakti. Anyone who says God is speaking with, immediately take him as rascal. God is so cheap that He will talk with rascals. He wants to talk, but he cannot hear. Lord Jesus advised him, "Don't steal." Why does he steal? If God is not advising from within, then why he's going at night when everyone's asleep. God is not dictating that "Don't steal"? But he will not care for God's instruction. Then it is whose fault? If I say that "You don't do it" and still you do it, then?

Hari-śauri: Rascal.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: So this... It explains also in the Nectar of Instruction that the man who may see others stealing and see others also put in jail and punished for stealing, he may have been caught himself and punished for stealing but yet he goes out and steals again. That this (indistinct) again and again. Is this a symptom of the cause (indistinct)?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's called durācara, misbehavior. So atonement, according to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, is not simply repenting and saying, "Oh, I'm sorry." But becoming intelligent. Atonement means coming to the platform of real intelligence. That intelligence, "Why I am becoming implicated in this material world, in so many ways which will simply produce more and more suffering for myself?" Just like if he steals, he knows he goes to prison, so he knows it beforehand, he's not ignorant of the fact. In this instance, one.... He knows that if he steals, he goes to prison. So in the same way we should become intelligent and should understand the laws of nature, the laws of God. That's athāto brahma jijñāsā. Inquiry what is the real nature, what is the real nature of Brahman, how Brahman has manifested this material world and how it's going on. Then become intelligent, act for your own self-interest, become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Devotee: It is explained that the intelligence is the next door neighbor of the soul, can you explain exactly what that means, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: So what is his question?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: His question is that the intelligence, sometimes you've gone like this, I've seen, you say that the soul and the intelligence are like that, that the intelligence is very close to the soul.

Guest: (indistinct) the relationship between the intelligence, working in the soul.

Prabhupāda: Soul is above intelligence. This is the relationship. Intelligence is above the mind, and soul is above the intelligence. Senses, then mind, then intelligence, then the soul.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And this is only the propaganda.

Rūpānuga: I agree. I think it was all like a movie set.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They are not going. Arizona is there, only accept. Why they are taking Arizona? That means they are in Arizona. Just like one man was stealing from the room, and there were some sounds, and the master of the house said "Who is there? What is that sound?" The man said, "No, I am not stealing. No, no I am not stealing." It is like that. (laughter)

Rūpānuga: Throughout this article they make comparisons with earth.

Prabhupāda: And there is no man. Just see the foolishness. The same logic, "No, no, I am not stealing." Who asked that you are stealing? He asked for the sound, but he disclosed. It is like that. Why they are bringing Arizona?

Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you catch them red-handed.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that I can do. It is like that. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? You are speaking of Arizona. "No, no, I am not stealing." (laughter) It is like that. They could have mentioned other places.

Rūpānuga: Arizona is convenient.

Prabhupāda: That means they are working in Arizona. The mind is there. Arizona-minded because they are working in Arizona, so they are disclosing mind.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: They may simply speculate from a distance, that "Here is the surface," like here...

Prabhupāda: That's all. Real business is speculation.

Rūpānuga: Here it says, here, this is some great, here...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is "I am not stealing."

Rūpānuga: Twelve hundred miles above the surface. Now they want to speculate what is there.

Prabhupāda: Who asked him that who is stealing? But he said "I am not stealing."

Rūpānuga: That is perfect, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Why he brings Arizona? Who asked him? That means that their business in Arizona.

Rūpānuga: They have exposed themselves.

Prabhupāda: Rascals, how they are cheating people.

Rūpānuga: Such a big hoax. They have spent billions of dollars for such a hoax.

Prabhupāda: Now you consider whether I am right or wrong. The moon planet is also Arizona. (laughs) All their business asset is there.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you require spiritual master to guide you.

Guest (3): So I cannot know myself.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Guest (3): And intuition does not help.

Prabhupāda: Intuition is wrong. It is a practice. A thief thinks "I should steal." His intuition says. He's practiced to steal and intuition says "You steal." That is not guide. Intuition means that things which you are practiced, that's all. You are accustomed, that's all.

Guest (3): How does a man find out what his duty is?

Prabhupāda: Duty is... The śāstra is there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. The Bible is there. So follow.

Guest (3): Whether a man should be a shopkeeper or a teacher or a carpenter, the Bible won't tell me that, and the Bhagavad-gītā won't tell me that.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is there, the four divisions of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So each one's duty is prescribed. Brāhmaṇa's duty, kṣatriya's duty, vaiśya's duty, śūdra's duty, brahmacārī's duty, everything is there.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They are... Just see. Their all activities are in Arizona. That's all. That is disclosed yesterday. He has...

Rūpānuga: Exposed.

Prabhupāda: All bogus propaganda. They have now disclosed the same psychology, "No, I am not stealing." "Who is there in the room?" "No, no, I am not stealing." Where is the question of...? If somebody asks "Are you stealing," then this answer is... If somebody is asking, "Who is in that room?" he immediately answers, "No, no, I am not stealing."

Hari-śauri: Guilty.

Prabhupāda: And this is going on. What concern was about Arizona? This is psychology. They have no business with Arizona, but they are putting the Arizona. That means it was. Everything was in Arizona. What benefit people will get by such information? And they are spending so much money. If it is like Arizona cave, then Arizona there are living entities. Why not there? Hmm? What is the answer?

Rūpānuga: They say it is similar, but not enough to have life.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not science. If the some of them are similar, then everything must be similar. That is nature's law. Hmm? What the scientists say?

Hari-śauri: There was one report. They said there may be some bacteria there. They thought there was a possibility of bacteria.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: In Arizona. There's an article, and it showed a picture of Mars and it compared, there's supposed to be this canyon four miles deep. So they said it compares to the Grand Canyon in Arizona, like that. So Prabhupāda said that by even mentioning Arizona they've revealed themselves. And he told one story about, there's a man, he heard a noise in his room, and he said, "Ah, who is that?" And immediately the reply came, "Oh, I'm not stealing." So even without asking, they've revealed themselves by saying Arizona, even mentioning Arizona.

Prabhupāda: Why these rascals compare it with Arizona? As if there is no other place in the world. Everything they are doing in Arizona. All photograph in this place. Now they have been caught. I was always protesting, "These rascals have never gone." For the last ten years I've protested. Whenever they asked me, I say straightly, "It is all childish. They have never gone, neither they'll be able to go." That has been proof available. Now they do not talk about it. That is finished, all propaganda, finished. Now they have taken another...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mars.

Prabhupāda: ...to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them. The so-called swamis exploiting, yogis exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? And this is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity, they are kept in darkness. The demons. "There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets." They are simply show. This planet is full of..., it is all scientists, and they are vacant. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: He gave an example. There's a man in his room at night, and he hears a noise. So he says "Oh, what's that sound?" And then back comes the reply, "I am not stealing." So no one asked the man to say what he was doing, but he unintentionally let it out what he was actually doing there. He just asked what the noise was, but he said "I am not stealing." So in the same way no one asked them to say anything about Arizona, but they let it out.

Prabhupāda: They have disclosed unintentionally. That is going on. It is beyond their dream to go either to the moon planet or Mars planet. It is not possible. Not nowadays I say—I said it ten years ago.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're going to have a difficult time, with the scientists, about the moon.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're going to have a difficult time about this moon and the sun relationship.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sunday, Monday.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is a lifelong project. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Nobody could answer, a simple question. (Hari-śauri explains "Sunday, Monday" question to Svarūpa Dāmodara in background(?)) According to Vedic astronomical calculations, sun is first.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: He wants to know that would you be justified in doing something that society would consider criminal, like, say...

Rāmeśvara: Like stealing for Kṛṣṇa, or killing for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Killing?

Rāmeśvara: If it is... Something that is judged by, say, the US government as criminal, would be still do it if it was for Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, we do not do anything which is harmful to the society. We do not do anything, not only to the human society. To the animal society, to the tree society, to the aquatic society, we do not do anything. We do not support the slaughterhouse, killing the animals. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to see every living entity on the same level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are not cruel to anyone. Either he's a man or animal or tree or bird.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: The government announces to the public that so much money from the taxes has to be spent on this space exploration. But according to the information that you're giving us it is not possible for them to be spending so much money to photograph Phoenix so they must be stealing the money.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?

Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.

Hari-śauri: You also said they had the ability to make themselves visible or invisible to the population. Actually, they have many sightings of what they call UFO's, so-called spaceships and things like this, or things that they cannot explain but the government doesn't release the information because they think that people will panic. Sometimes aircraft pilots, they've reported that their aircrafts are being inspected while they're up in the air.

Prabhupāda: Inspection?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who inspects?

Hari-śauri: Well they don't know who. But there's all kinds of things that they can't explain, but they don't release the information. What the scientists can't explain they won't tell anyone.

Rāmeśvara: After they claimed they have landed on the moon they announced that they wanted to build a gigantic dome on the moon's surface and within the dome they would have these pumps pumping air and in that way earth people could go to the moon and live there.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to their project? Stopped now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're going to do it on Mars instead.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Right one?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha:

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."

Prabhupāda: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it, immediately accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain. By eating meat and intoxication they have lost their all human brain tissues. Such a condition. Still, some professors receiving and doing some applause. That is. Otherwise who is understanding? The brain is so dull in the modern world.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Everyone—why I, you?—everyone. So long one is in ignorance, there are different feelings. When one is in knowledge, that is permanently. Suppose a man was in ignorance, he was committing a theft and he suffered. And now when he has come to knowledge, that "This business is not good," he does not any more steal and does not suffer. That's all.

Mike Robinson: But there must be different stages that you go through, is that not correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, different stages.

Mike Robinson: Can you tell me from your own experience some of these different stages you've been through.

Prabhupāda: Yes, first stage is that you are inquisitively trying to understand. This is the first stage. This is called śraddha, that you have got some faith, "What is this movement? Let me study." This is the beginning. Then, if you are serious, then those who are cultivating this knowledge, you mix with them, try to understand how they are feeling. Then you'll feel, "Why not become one of them?" Then when you become one of them, then all your misgivings go away. And then you become more faithful and you, then you get a taste. Why these boys are not going to see the cinema? They can go-other boys are going. They never ask me. Neither they would like to see even. They hate. Their taste is different. Why they do not eat meat, go to the restaurant? Their taste has changed. In this way you make progress. Firm faith, taste is changed, then God-realization, then love of Godhead, the perfection. That is wanted, love of Godhead. That is first-class religion. Not that ritualistic ceremony, "I believe," "This belief." That is not religion; that is cheating. Really when you develop your love for God, that is perfection of religion.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: I shall request you, you are young man, just try to study our philosophy. And as you are journalist, try to do some good to the people. That is your duty.

Mike Robinson: Well, certainly we're trying to present both other people's views and...

Prabhupāda: Don't take it as a sectarian religious system. It is very scientific understanding for spiritual life.

Harikeśa: But, ah, "Beware of the undefeatable reasoning and logic of the Hare Kṛṣṇas, who will steal away your children." (laughs) Because we argue so nicely because Śrīla Prabhupāda has trained us up very perfectly, because he also is the perfect teacher of this. Therefore the students can learn that way. So when we argue people become afraid, because it makes so much sense.

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: But they say that that's intelligence, to make preparation for the future.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to steal God's property is certainly intelligence. Very good intelligence. They must suffer. Must be punished. For this intelligence they must be punished. (men talking in background) So if they want to hear, these men...?

Hari-śauri: Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it's for us to divide up and enjoy between us.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: God may have made everything, but now He has no connection with it now.

Prabhupāda: Why? He has made and He has no connection? What is this rascal theory? He has made everything and He has no connection.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You can go. It is your punishment. The material body... If one thinks in the prison house, "How one can live without prison house?" That is his misconception. Generally, one is expected to live outside the prison. But because that person is in the prison house since a long time, he cannot think that without prison house one can live; that is misconception. He has no idea of spiritual life, therefore he's thinking like that. Real business is how to get out of the prison. But he's thinking just the opposite way, that "If I do not remain in the prison, how can I eat?" A thief is thinking that "I'm living here very comfortably, without stealing. I'm getting food and shelter, and if I go outside I have to steal again." So it is good life? That is due to ignorance. There is very good life without the prison house. That he does not know. He does not know that there is a spiritual world where a spirit soul can live very comfortably, meeting God every day, talking with Him, dancing with Him. That he has no idea.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mr. Sahani: Māyā is also very attached to everybody, it still can be jijñāsur and jñānī, (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: No, no. (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Your first business is to surrender. Then māyā will not touch you.

Mrs. Sahani: Kṛṣṇa says that not even a leaf moves without His desire, and this present life...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to take sanction. You have to take sanction because Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. If you request repeatedly, "Kṛṣṇa, I want to steal something," so Kṛṣṇa will say, "No, no, don't do it, it is not good." But...

Mrs. Sahani: But bhakti...

Prabhupāda: It is not bhakti, it is a common affair. You want to do some... Just like a thief. A thief steals very privately, why? Because Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't do it." But he does still. So Kṛṣṇa says always good things, but you don't care for it.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: They get a bit confused because God has to... Like that man last night was saying not even a blade of grass can move without God's sanction. So they think because God sanctions...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is so many times explained. Just like a child wants to do something. The father says, "Don't do it," I have said several times. Reluctantly, "All right, do it." I have given this example of my practical experience in 1925 or '26 when my son was two years old. There was a table fan, "I would like to touch it." And I said, "No, no, don't touch." This is child. So but it's a child. He again tried to touch it. So there was a friend, he said, "Just slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it, slowed the speed and he touched-tung! Then he would not touch. You see. So this sanction was given, "Touch it," reluctantly. Now when he gets experience and I ask him, "Touch again?" "No." So this sanction. All of us who have come to this material world, it is like that. Reluctantly. Therefore God comes again to inform these rascals that "Now you have tried so much, better give up this, come to Me again." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Sanction was given, certainly, and he has experience, very bitter, but still he won't... This is obstinacy. Dog's mentality. The father has come personally. Now we have experimented everything—karma, jñāna, yoga, this, that, all nonsense. "Now I say..." It is said most confidential. Sarva-guhyatamam. "Better give up this job. Surrender to Me, come back to Me." So sanction was there, certainly. Without sanction they cannot do it. God created this. That is sanction. You wanted material world to enjoy. "All right, do it, here is material world. Take as much petrol as you like and drive motorcar and create accident, do, go on. But now I am giving you good advice, that give up this business, come back to Me." This is sanction. Reluctant, the same example. I did not like that child to touch the fan, but he would insist. "All right, make an experiment." And when he got the experience, next time, ask him, "Now do it?" "No." This is going on. The sanction, without sanction there is no possibility. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam—that is mattaḥ, "from Me." But he's insisting, so therefore sanction—"All right, let him experiment." That independence God never touches. So he has got independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). So he is creating problem. Still, Kṛṣṇa coming, that "You have created simply problems. What you have gained? Better give up this all nonsense, come to Me." This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are intelligent, they are taking up. And those who are still remaining rascal, they are going on. That is our choice, if we want to be intelligent or rascal. Practically. What we have gained by this so-called material advancement? They have created problem, different problems. That's all. But still, we think that it is progress. And this is going on. Without God's sanction you cannot do anything, that's a fact. But what kind of sanction it is, that you have to understand. God is creator, God is giving sanction, everything is God. Otherwise how He is God? But He has to do. There is a story like that, that the thief is praying to God, "My Lord, give me the chance I can make some stealing in that house." And the householder also praying to God, "My Lord, please save my house, my things may not be stolen." Now God has to adjust, God has to please the thief and the householder. And both of them are prayers. So God has so intelligence, He can do that. He can give the sanction to the thief and He can give protection to the householder. That is God's position. Because both of them prayers, praying, "Give me the facility." And īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He is situated in everyone's heart and there are so many petitions, and He has to deal with them. That is God. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijñāsuḥ. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as paṇḍita. Big, big professor, they'll say, "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor. So we had some talks. So he does not believe transmigration of the soul, and he's a learned scholar. And everywhere you find that. The same atheistic philosophy.

ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet
yāvāj jivet sukhaṁ jivet
bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya
kutaḥ punar agamano bhavet

So enjoy life. "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee, and prepare nice preparation and enjoy." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, yāvāj jivet sukhaṁ jivet. So long you live, enjoy. "I'll become a debtor. Then I'll act sinfully." Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar agamano bhavet. Your body will be burnt and everything finished. This philosophy is going on. But Kṛṣṇa says: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the body is burned, don't think that you are burned. You are living. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who is caring for that? Nobody cares. And still they are passing as paṇḍita, philosopher, scientist. This is misfortune of the present civilization. A person who is equal to go-kharaḥ, he is the teacher, he is the philosopher, he is leader.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: People are running like anything in the street, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that this civilization, having nice roads and streets and number of cars and running here and there, this is... Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They do not know what is the goal of life. And if you ask the goal of life, "What is goal of life?" "After death everything is finished," that's all. "Let me enjoy." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet.(?) Beg borrow, steal, bring money and enjoy. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). If by his activities he's going to be a lower animal next life, then what is the value of his so much business and activities? Therefore they do not believe in next life. Close the eyes. Never mind, where is the danger in front.
Room Conversation -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And I also explained, "Nā rūpya, nā rūpya." (laughs)

Mahāṁsa: (laughs) Yes, that's exactly what they do.

Prabhupāda: Actually that is the whole world going on. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). (indistinct) Whole world.

Mahāṁsa: Beg, borrow, steal.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Beg, borrow, steal. Bring money and enjoy. They were selected Marwaris. This morning?

Mahāṁsa: Yes, these people are the head of the Marwari community. They don't know how to live. They live in these slums which we saw today. They live all around that area. They are crore-patis. They have crores of rupees.

Prabhupāda: To live very gorgeously is not good.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever little money I've got, I don't want to keep in the bank. I want to convert it and purchase paper, print book. Then these rascals will never be able to take anything from us.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking every time. Ask Gopāla that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And they are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So, which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.

Hari-śauri: We simply have to...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: ...present our whole program and...

Prabhupāda: Our only business is how to establish Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the only business. Our quarrel with our men: Why this temple is not clean? Why there is no flower in the Deity room? This is our fight. We have no other cause of fight. And why should we show magic? But these inquiries are going on—it is good—these rascals will be exposed.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: The mṛdaṅgas are in there all day long. Any karmī that comes in, they beat the drum and mess around. The little kids go in and they do the same thing. I've seen them. You should take them out of the temple. Let them be there for kīrtana and then take them away and store them in your room. There's no kartālas now either because everybody steals them.

Prabhupāda: These two rooms can be used for keeping.

Akśayananda: Kartālas are locked away every time and the drums were done... That was done until they were broken.

Hari-śauri: Or you can just put them in that tourist room. Or in the pūjārī room.

Akśayananda: Yeah, I'll arrange for that.

Prabhupāda: Everything depends on organized management. Give some...

Akśayananda: Shall I put... Some gentlemen, some bābājīs, are coming now, some metas.

Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye. Betiye.

Akśayananda: May I help bota? (?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Betiye. (end)

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: ...a trench and a hedge, which has been planted here so that people and animals... Animals is the main problem. They come and they eat up the plants which we grow. So by having this trench we avoid animals from getting in and a hedge also. There'll be a lot of... One big problem that the Badrukas faced was that there was tremendous pilferage. These village people, they live on this land. They used to cut all the wood here for fire, they used to take whatever grows here, maize, and they used to steal in the night everything. Many times...

Prabhupāda: So ask them to chant and take prasādam. They will be rectified. Make them friends, family members. Just we organize, everything is there.

Devotee (2): Yesterday this truck came.

Mahāṁśa: Yes, I told Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: It is full of dust, and we have to believe this.

Indian man: No.

Prabhupāda: Just see, a rascal scientist, "Full of dust."

Jagad-guru: Their brains are full of dust.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have never gone to the moon planet. Simply bluff. (break)

Devotee (3): ...this a reflection of the sun or is it his own light?

Prabhupāda: Own light.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: Mebubshah. He's a Muslim but he's so loyal. He's the best man. And then Puru and Hanumān. These three people, they are very loyal and they are trustworthy. These people in the villages, they tend... Because they have their home there, so sometimes they want something for their home, so they will steal. And if some other village man steals, he will not stop them. He will say, "All right," because if he stops him, then in his village there will be trouble for him. See? So he will encourage his other villagers to steal. But these men, if they see some villagers stealing, they will stop them. This has happened.

Prabhupāda: This is natural. So how to deal with this?

Mahāṁśa: So we have both. We can get outsiders to come and stay here who we can give prasādam, make them chant, and give them mahā-prasādam. They love it. In the morning. We used to give them a little mahā-prasādam in the morning. They like it very much. By that, we gain their confidence.

Prabhupāda: We shall like that they will come here and stay and remain our twenty-four hours' son. That is very good also.

Mahāṁśa: Only thing is that in the beginning, because they do not know us very well, they will demand some salary. I told you previously that now I am paying them hundred rupees and 125 rupees for family.

Prabhupāda: So why 125? Hundred rupees sufficient. If they are eating and we are giving shelter, then a hundred rupees sufficient.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means plunder. So if you remain with no money, who will plunder? Because they are becoming plunderer, you remain without any bhūtīs.

Girirāja: Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he suspected that they were going to steal, he told, "Get rid of it."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. He immediately offered, "I have got this seven dollars. You take it." He was astrologer. He said, "No, you have got eight dollars. But I'll not take your money." "No, no, you take, sir. You'll not take—somebody will take. I'll give you. Kindly help me." And he chastised his servant, "Why you have taken these dangerous things? So you have got still one dollar. You go back. You don't come with me. And eight dollars I have given him. I'll be free." He thought that "Master is by sentiment leaving home and he is so opulent. Let me go with him and keep some money in case of emergency." Of course, that is... From his part it was right, but he thought that "Without this money, to remain, is more safe than to feel safety by keeping money." Because if the government is plunderer, then there is no other. This time is coming. The government will plunder in the name of taxation, and there will be no rainfall, scarcity of food. So everyone will feel very difficult to maintain the family. They'll leave voluntarily and go away. This is foretold.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life, either in rasa dance or the cowherd's play or killing the demons or in dining and dancing. The friends are eating, they are being stolen by Brahmā—but the center is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. All activities are going on, just like in other place. But here in Vṛndāvana, all activities centered around Kṛṣṇa. When Brahmā is stealing His friends, the center is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming to destroy—the center is Kṛṣṇa. When there is forest fire, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana beauty. In happiness, in danger, in perplexities, in friendship—everything Kṛṣṇa. Kāliya-damana. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to Yamunā. He has fallen down in the..., to fight the Kāliya." It is a very, what is called, calamity. But still, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. "Kṛṣṇa has entered Yamunā to fight with Kāliya." It is not at all good news for Mother Yaśodā, Nanda, friends and family, not at all. Their life is lost. But still the Kṛṣṇa is center. This is Vṛndāvana life. In everything Kṛṣṇa is center, anything. We are having just like: "Kṛṣṇa's a bad propaganda," opposition.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining, that what is Vṛndāvana life. In Vṛndāvana life there is everything—the cowherds boy, the calves, the cows, the elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodāmayī, friend. What is their aim? The aim is Kṛṣṇa. The demons... (laughter) Everything is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming there. That is also... Center is Kṛṣṇa. And gopīs are dancing. That is also... Center is Kṛṣṇa. And Brahmā is stealing the friends and cows. That is also center Kṛṣṇa.

Trivikrama: Now we are also getting the demons.

Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life. When everything is Kṛṣṇa, that is Vṛndāvana life. Why Vṛndāvana life is so exalted? Because they have no other shelter except Kṛṣṇa. The whole book Kṛṣṇa is therefore center Kṛṣṇa. That's all. But there are many varieties of activities.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda explaining the different philosophies of the world. This was something that just appeared just before I left Los Angeles. This shows how they are fighting back. This a four-page article... (break) ...as if it is a very nice thing. And they say in the article that the parents have to pay these professionals $25,000 just to steal a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Heavy tax.

Haṁsadūta: We don't pay them anything. They come to us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are getting advertise, publicity, paying nothing. This is our profit.

Rāmeśvara: We still have to work very hard to defeat them.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is necessary. You don't sleep. Never Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am your friend. I am God. You sleep here. (laughter) I'll do everything." No! "You must fight." That is wanted. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara: (BG 8.7) "You fight and remember Me. Then I'll do everything." This is an opportunity of remembering Kṛṣṇa always—"Kṛṣṇa, save us." (break) So what are these pictures? Against us?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This shows that if they kidnap you and they convince you to give up your belief in God, you will be very happy. You will have nice girlfriend. You will be very happy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: You cannot make own religion. Then it is not religion.

Rāmeśvara: That is what they accuse us of. They say that we teach our devotees that you can lie for Kṛṣṇa, you can steal for Kṛṣṇa, you can even kill for Kṛṣṇa. So this is immoral.

Prabhupāda: But do you say like that?

Rāmeśvara: No, they are distorting. But that is their ar... And just like they use your Back to Godhead article about Arjuna on the battlefield, that sometimes we may even have to kill our relatives for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So, suppose if God said that "You kill," what you will do?

Rāmeśvara: Our argument is just that, that in the Bible, God told Abraham, "You must kill your son Isaac." This is a famous story in the Bible. So Abraham took his son and was ready to chop off his head. And God felt sorry and He stopped him. But that story is there in the Bible, that God told Abraham to kill his son, and Abraham was ready to do it. It does not mean that the Jewish religion is based on killing your son.

Jagadīśa: It was a test of his faith.

Rāmeśvara: It was a test of his faith. The same story of Arjuna, he had to kill for Kṛṣṇa. It's actually a good argument when they say that.

Prabhupāda: You have got sugar candy?

Hari-śauri: I don't think she packed any. Oh, sugar? She must have packed it. I'll have to find Pālikā, 'cause she has everything.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you kidnap? You say.

Rāmeśvara: They want us to give the devotees to them, and then they will deprive them of food and sleep and deprogram him.

Jagadīśa: But we're already depriving him of food and sleep.

Prabhupāda: But they are open to everyone. Why do you kidnap? Why do you steal like a thief?

Rāmeśvara: For his own good.

Prabhupāda: Then you are thief. Then thief can also say like that, "For my good I can steal."

Rāmeśvara: "It is the lesser of evils."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But God does not allow.

Hari-śauri: When a person first comes to us he's coming voluntarily and he's not... At that stage he's not deprived of sleep, he's not deprived of eating. But still, he's coming, voluntarily. But when they take him away they have to take him by force.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpā: Think we're cheating. Many people interrupt our book sales, saying "These people are simply taking money."

Prabhupāda: Where do they say? In your country?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. They come, and they stop the sale: "Don't give him anything. He's cheating."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gurukṛpā: "He's stealing from you." That is a great problem. We lose so many sales because of envious people stopping.

Satsvarūpa: They say we're pretending to be a religion just to collect money, but our real aim is just to cheat, false propaganda. (horn beeps)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Child: Prabhupāda ki jaya!

Prabhupāda: Jaya! Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Children: Prabhupāda ki jaya! Prabhupāda ki jaya! (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's nice, one o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Make arrangement for prasāda distribution, any center. For that, we have to work hard, we have to collect, we have to beg, borrow, steal, everything. Prasāda distribution. And kīrtana. Here your distribution propa..., having kīrtana or not?

Bhavānanda: I'm sorry, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Brahmānanda: When you distribute prasāda do you have kīrtana also?

Bhavānanda: Yes, up and down the aisle. When we're distributing the big prasāda, then we have a kīrtana party.

Prabhupāda: They must hear kīrtana.

Bhavānanda: Always.

Prabhupāda: That must be done.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I do not remember, but may be.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So. Anyway, he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board because he's a big tea importer, so he has connections. So he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board. They're so dishonest. Even this is the five-star hotel. It's a big hotel in Calcutta, one of the two or three best, and they're so dishonest that as soon as a foreigner comes, they can figure out where the valuables are and they steal it. And most people will let them get away with it. He may not, because he's got so many connections. But it's so dishonest. Even they make an attempt to cultivate tourism and be professional but-spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Hotels are always unreliable. They have got duplicate key.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even during Sanātana Gosvāmī's time, that hotel-keeper.

Prabhupāda: Hotel you should not go simply by locking. Somebody must be there. Otherwise they have got duplicate key.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They just stole the whole suitcase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They have got duplicate key. They can take.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is verse of Bhagavad-gītā, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You cannot violate the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You are strictly under the obligation, or laws of nature. Why you are talking nonsense? This should be... And under the strict laws of nature—you are eternal—simply you are suffering while transforming this body or transmigrating your soul over... And it is so risky that today you are human being; tomorrow you may be a dog, a tree. Then your life is spoiled. Today you have got so nice intelligence to deliver you from the clutches of the laws of nature, and tomorrow you may not be able. Then you are lost in the laws of nature. This is your position. So at least this institution must be there. People may take little advantage of it. If he begins, that is also great guarantee that he gets another chance, another chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Why this chance should not be given to the human society? What is this nonsense dog dancing, election, and bribing, stealing, and unnecessarily struggle? What they'll do? They are all nothing, all of these. What will be gained by this?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very effective. We are just about ready to print something in Bombay. Our two other are in Bombay now, two other scientists.

Prabhupāda: Let us go there and organize. At least for one month we shall remain there. Let us organize.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are receptive.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. Very friendly. They're not like monkeys in... (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vṛndāvana.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: These monkeys are very friendly. They wait until they are given. They don't just steal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana they're a problem now.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were so enthusiastic that they even gave me a blueprint of the map of Manipur to show Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is the... Here is the capital, here, in the middle, Imphal. And the one is little smaller, in Imphal, in the capital. And it is also very close to the Govinda Temple that I was describing. And there is a mūrti of Hanumān that the people worship there in this... It's just like little forest. In the middle of this forest there is a small, little temple. There they worship Hanumān.

Prabhupāda: Govindajī Temple?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Govindajī's temple is just in front.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it is right in the middle of the center, this place, this forest?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's not in the middle. It's on the side, one of the sides of the... And there's a river, this Imphal River. It almost surrounds this little forest. And this forest is full of monkeys and so many birds, and they are very natural. It is about seven acres. It's not very big. Seven acres of land.

Prabhupāda: Seven acres.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the origin...

Mr. Dwivedi: I do not know much about it, but that's what I hear. And therefore you find more statues of Viṣṇu than Kṛṣṇa. But nobody might be stealing statues of Kṛṣṇa, and He might be still there with His cakra-sudarśana.

Prabhupāda: Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. Ṛg Veda. Viṣṇu... Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Viṣṇu is the Vedic Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Mr. Dwivedi: Round about Gwalior, there is a good sage, almost, Mahārāja, of your age. And he's a tāntrika-śāstrī and jyotiṣa. He's the founder of Pitambar Pith. That is a Sanskrit school, but otherwise practicing...

Prabhupāda: Jatiya is near Gwalior?

Mr. Dwivedi: No, forty miles away from Gwalior.

Prabhupāda: One lady lives in Vṛndāvana...

Mr. Dwivedi: He has written books also on tantra-śāstra. And I understand most of these ministers, they were going to seek his blessings. I did not know to whom he gave his blessings, but what I know is that most of these people were going to him. I only... One day I asked him. He's very kind towards me, so I go to him and dine with him. So I told him one day, I said, "Mahārāja, you speak to mahatlal (?) people to give some money to our institution." He said, "Mr. Dwivedi, I do not ask any friends or anybody to do anything for me or to anybody." So then I said, "Mahārāja, then I put one question to you if you permit me." He said, "All right, I permit you." So I asked, "Vivekananda has said that 'Service of God... Service of humanity is service of God.' Do you think it is correct or it is incorrect?" He said, "This is correct." Then I said, "We are running educational institution. Whatever good or bad, leave that aside. But in our own little small way we are rendering little service to humanity. And..."

Prabhupāda: But I may interfere. The... In the Bhagavad-gītā is there such statement, that "Service to humanity is service to God"? Is there any statement?

Mr. Dwivedi: Daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya... (?) I think there is somewhere...

Prabhupāda: There is no.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is genuine, bona fide." (Hindi) So you are ready? (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (Hindi conversation) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The only explanation can be that Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam: "I give him intelligence."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Kṛṣṇa book there's the part where Lord Brahmā steals away all the calves and children, so then Kṛṣṇa gives Himself instead. So...

Prabhupāda: Not gives. He exands Him...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Expands Himself. So Balarāma is wondering, "How is it possible that everyone is so attracted?" Then the explanation is, "He's Kṛṣṇa." So these books are there. People are automatically attracted. I don't think they're so attracted to any other books.

Prabhupāda: No, what other books? Rubbish. I say, rubbish. There is no book. Mental speculation is not book. Garbage.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahmā it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?

Śatadhanya: To stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they think this life is all in all, they think better somehow or other...

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They are going all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahātmā Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: No. Nothing. Simply false life, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And these are the people that we are preaching to.

Prabhupāda: That is our duty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You preach to us.

Prabhupāda: In the distinction between two civilizations, they, they want to increase the bad qualification; we want to decrease them.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And one tin box. (laughs) Give up this mistaken idea that "If we get some large sum of money from our father, then we shall be happy." That is not... That is wrong idea. Happiness depends on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can take advantage from your father that you may not live uncomfortably. That's all, that much. That I am making sufficient arrangement. In your present position you'll never be disturbed. Now try to become happy by advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

Pramattaḥ. These persons are mad, pramattaḥ. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad, and pra means still more, more than mad. Kurute vikarma. They are engaged in so many nefarious activities—black market, white market, stealing, burglaring, so on, so on. Vikarma. Idam adya mayā labdham idaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. This is asuric thing. If one can squander away crores of rupees like Harendra Singh... Suppose if I give you each one lakh of rupees, how long it will take? You can squander away in one day. Take some regular income. Be comfortably situated. Advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bas. That is happiness. In your whole life you'll never be disturbed for economic condition. That I am arranging. That's all. That "I am suffering for money." No. It will regularly. Is not that scheme? So what is next Mukherjee? Hyderabad (Hindi) It will be great service to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And it has gone to the Central Government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that. I guess you must have got that information from the newspaper. I didn't know that. I mean just see. Fifty of them together stealing the grass. That's organized. Two hundred fifty people waiting in the bushes, knowing that we will try to stop them from stealing, and suddenly they all rush into the gate, destroy the gate, cut the wires, cut the telephone line, destroy the waterpumps. Every one of these things is criminal. We did not do anything wrong, no wrong in any case. And yet they arrest us. The American government... Actually this should be pushed from the American government. That will have tremendous effect. We should let the American government defend us.

Prabhupāda: Is the Consulate has come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Consulate went to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: We already said that this is a Communist plan.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't notice. Here's a little news clipping. It's probably the same. You probably have seen this already. This is from Indian Express. "Why Krishna Mandir Men Fired Salvo." By a... "An attack on the devotees and destruction of the premises of ISKCON Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, led to the shooting incident, according to Mr. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Dāsa, Secretary, Bombay center of the organization. Mr. Dāsa, in his statement issued on Monday, said the news from their sources in Bengal stated that on July 8th about fifty miscreants were found encroaching on our agricultural field and stealing our crops. When a devotee requested them to stop, they became angry and beat him up, fracturing his skull. Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants..." Notice how they're not going to use "Muslims." They say "miscreants." They don't say "Muslims." Probably the paper wants to avoid. This is a hot issue. No one wants to write "Hindu-Muslim." "Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants armed with sticks and spears suddenly appeared from behind the bushes and all of them entered the temple area. Mr. Dāsa said the miscreants beat several more devotees, including the Gurukula school headmaster, whose both hands and skull were broken. They also stripped naked a female disciple. They cut off electrical connections, telephone lines and water pipes. The police did not come for two hours, and meanwhile the group destroyed the gate, broke windows and stole two bulls. According to ISKCON Secretary, as a final resort, one ran for a gun, appropriately licensed and registered with the government, and fired a shot in the air. As the group persisted, he fired again into the ground which injured eleven of the miscreants. All of those injured have been discharged from the hospital." They're not injured seriously at all. "Mr. Dāsa said the police advised the devotees to go to the Krishnanagar police station to report the incident, and when they did go there they were arrested. Two devotees in critical condition were also detained in the jail hospital. Asked why our men have been kept in jail, the police replied, 'As a precaution.' "

Prabhupāda: This report is already there.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think that we should approach them, or will they do it on their own?

Prabhupāda: No. It is already gone there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Chief Minister has sent...

Prabhupāda: Chief Minister, before catching him as thief, he has submitted that "I am not a thief." Before catching him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking that. "I'm not stealing." Someone's in the house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To keep his position clear, he has approached that "I am not thief." It is like that. Just like I'm going to catch you as thief. Before my catching you come and say, "No, no I am not a thief," then you are a thief. Do you understand the logic? I am going to capture you as a thief. Now, before my capturing, you approach me that "I am not a thief." That means you are a thief.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So many stories fabricated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty men stealing our crops. I've seen in Māyāpur. When men steal crops, three, four men go. I never saw fifty men. Highly organized. They must have paid them to do this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And another thing that they probably told them is that we're trying to get their land by acquisition. "But we won't let them ever get your land. Now you do this. Drive them out of here. We won't arrest you."

Prabhupāda: That is a different issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may have used that, though.

Prabhupāda: The real issue is the Communists do not want any religious movement in Bengal. That is real issue.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he wanted to meet Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't go to him. This Māyāpur incident is a handling of the Communists.

Yaśomatīnandana: Now there is Communist government there.

Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpur affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also. They wanted to give a communal color. But the whole thing is Communist plan. And their aim is to wipe out any religious movement. That is their open declaration in other Communist...

Yaśomatīnandana: This prabhu, Rāma-Krishna Prabhu, is very respectable gentleman. So if I take him to see the Home Minister...

Prabhupāda: Nice.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole area.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whole area, the whole back.

Rāmeśvara: And she requested one painting from the Tenth Canto, which she wants to hang in the palace. And in this palace the rulers of all the countries of the world pass through as visitors. So she is hanging this painting of Kṛṣṇa stealing butter. (Prabhupāda laughs) Very big painting. So I brought the painting with me when I went to Tehran so they could display it.

Prabhupāda: Anyone can scratch very hard?

Kīrtanānanda: I'm afraid you won't have any back left.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Kīrtanānanda, you are doing. (devotees laugh)

Jayatīrtha: He is your original masseur. He wants his old job back now.

Prabhupāda: Not so hard. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Too hard.

Rāmeśvara: Actually the princess is very eager to come to India to meet you. She's been planning to do this with her husband. Her husband is the most powerful prince in the country. He's involved with the oil exporting and buying weapons and so many matters. And they're both very eager to have your darśana.

Prabhupāda: They have got money. Now if they follow little our instruction, it will be an ideal country.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: This one I think you have seen. Kṛṣṇa stealing butter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This has been given to the Shah of Iran, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: To hang in their palace.

Prabhupāda: The Shah of Iran (Bengali) some connection (Bengali) Parivrājakācārya (Bengali)...

Rāmeśvara: This painting is Mother Yaśodā chasing Kṛṣṇa with a stick because He is stealing butter. (Godbrothers are laughing, saying "Oh" and "Hm" at each picture) This painting is the fruit vendor, aborigine, giving Kṛṣṇa all the fruits, and He is turning her basket of fruits into jewels.

Hari-śauri: These are wonderful.

Rāmeśvara: We showed this painting to the princess and told her that if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, He returns it millions of times. (laughter) She liked this. This is the cowherd boys sporting in the mouth of Aghāsura.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated. He could not understand what He was doing. Brahmā is the chief person within this universe. He became so much bewildered, what to speak of so-called scientists and philosophers. We should not make such attempt. The best thing is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). We should give up all our tiny efforts to defy the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Better whatever arrangement He is proposing, do like this. This is Bhagavad-gītā. That will make us happy. Is this clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then it says, (Sanskrit). So mohayan vatsa-bāla-steyena, "By stealing the vatsa and bālas," mohayitum upakramamāṇaḥ... Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, "Just beginning to try to make him illusioned." (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that.

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Instead of bewildering Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he is the same caliber. No, they are sending a different man. He is here only until the new man comes. So in... They realize at the head office that to them this ten lakhs is nothing, because they think that we can give much more. So there's no question of them thinking how to steal this money. They want more business. Ten lakhs is nothing. Another thing is that we have amongst our life members, some of them are former... Two of our members in Delhi were formerly the chairman of the Punjab Bank and the second man in charge of Punjab Bank. So our connections are so strong that no one could ever do anything. Tejiyas is very intimate with those members. When Girirāja went to Delhi to begin this, the first person he met was one of the former chairmen who happens to be our member. Girirāja took instruction. The man said, "You'll do like this, you do like...," you know. No one could... A man who's a former chairman is also still very powerful and respected. So no chairman or anyone will play any tricks. It's very good that this was done. Now they understand that they cannot deal with us with harassment tactics. Anyway, the real benefit will come when the new man comes here locally. Then we can start to deal properly. Until then it will always be difficult, because they are so...

Prabhupāda: Now who is...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Trivedi. He is very bad also.

Page Title:Steal (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:22 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=144, Let=0
No. of Quotes:144