That information is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, that beyond this material sky, there is another spiritual sky; that is called sanātana sky. In this sky, this covered sky, we find everything temporary. It is manifested, it stays for some time, gives us some by-product, and then it becomes dwindling, and then vanishes. That is the law of this material world. You take this body, you take a fruit or anything what is created here, it has got its annihilation at the end. So beyond this temporary world there is another world for which the information is there, that paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature which is eternal, sanātana, which is eternal. And the jīva, jīva is also described as sanātana. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). Sanātana, sanātana means eternal. And the Lord is also described as sanātana in the 11th Chapter. So because we have got intimate relation with the Lord and we are all qualitatively one... The sanātana-dhama and the sanātana Supreme Personality and the sanātana living entities, they are on the same qualitatively plane.
Spiritual sky (Lectures)
Expressions researched:
"paravyoma"
|"sanatana sky"
|"spiritual realm"
|"spiritual realms"
|"spiritual sky"
|"spiritual universe"
|"spiritual universes"
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
We are now temporarily engaged in different activities and all these activities being purified. When we give up all these temporary activities, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), and when we take up the activities as desired by the Supreme Lord, that is called our pure life. (break) Therefore, sanātana-dharma, as mentioned above, that the Supreme Lord is sanātana, and the transcendental abode, which is beyond the spiritual sky, that is also sanātana. And the living entities, they are also sanātana. So association of the sanātana Supreme Lord, sanātana living entities, in the sanātana eternal abode is the ultimate aim of human form of life. The Lord is so kind upon the living entities because the living entities are claimed to be all sons of the Supreme Lord. The Lord declares sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). Every living, every type of living entity... There are different types of living entities according to their different karma, but the Lord claims that He is the father of all living entities, and therefore the Lord descends to reclaim all these forgotten conditioned souls back to the sanātana-dhāma, the sanātana sky, so that the sanātana living entity may again reinstall in his sanātana position in eternal association of the Lord. He comes Himself by different incarnations, He sends His confidential servitor as sons or associates or ācāryas to reclaim the conditioned souls.
Now the description of that eternal sky... When we speak of sky, because we have material conception of the sky, therefore we think of sky with sun, moon, stars, like that. But the Lord says that the eternal sky, there is no need of sun. Na tad bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ (BG 15.6). Neither in that eternal sky there is need of moon. Na pāvakaḥ means neither there is necessity of electricity or fire for illuminating because the spiritual sky is already illuminated by the brahma-jyotir. Brahmajyoti, yasya prabhā (Bs. 5.40), the rays of the supreme abode. Now in these days when people are trying to reach other planets, it is not very difficult to understand the abode of the Supreme Lord. The abode of the Supreme Lord is in the spiritual sky, and it is named as Goloka. In the Brahmā-saṁhitā it is very nicely described, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). The Lord, although resides eternally in His abode, Goloka, still He is akhilātma-bhūtaḥ, He can be approached from here also. And the Lord therefore comes to manifest His real form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), so that we may not have to imagine. There is no question of imagination.
Now anyone who can approach that spiritual sky will not be required to come back again in this material sky. So long we are in the material sky, what to speak of approaching the moon planet.... The moon planet, of course, is the nearest planet, but even we approach the highest planet, which is called Brahmaloka, there also we have the same miseries of material life, I mean to say, the miseries of birth, death, old age, and diseases. No planets in the material universe is free from the four principles of material existence. The Lord therefore says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). The living entities are traveling from one planet to another. It is not that we can simply go to other planets by the mechanical arrangement of the sputnik. Anyone who desires to go to other planet, there is process.
We can go to the sun planet even, we can go to the moon planet, we can go to the heavenly planet, but Bhagavad-gītā does not advise us to go to any one of these planets in the material world because even we go to the Brahmaloka, the highest planet, which is calculated by the modern scientist that we can reach the highest planet by traveling with sputniks for 40,000 years. Now it is not possible to live 40,000 years and reach the highest planet of this material universe. But if one devotes his life in the worshipment of the particular demigod he can approach the particular planet, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Similarly, there is Pitṛloka. Similarly, one who likes to approach the supreme planet, supreme planet... The supreme planet means the Kṛṣṇaloka. In the spiritual sky there are innumerable planets, sanātana planets, eternal planets, which are never destroyed, annihilated. But of all those spiritual planets there is one planet, the original planet, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. So these informations are there in the Bhagavad-gītā and we are given the opportunity for leaving this material world and get our eternal life in the eternal kingdom. Now in the 15th Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, the real picture of this material world is given.
Even the part of material world is not manifested before us. Our senses are so imperfect that we cannot see how many stars, how many planets there are in this material universe. Of course, through the Vedic literature we get information of all the planets. We may believe or not believe, but all the important planets in which we have connection, they are described in the Vedic literature, especially in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But the spiritual world, which is beyond this material sky, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo (BG 8.20), but that avyakta, that nonmanifested spiritual sky, is the paramāṁ gatim, that is, one should desire, one should hanker after reaching that supreme kingdom. And once approaching that supreme kingdom, yaṁ prāpya, one approaching or one achieving that supreme kingdom, na nivartante, one hasn't got to return back to this material world. And that place which is the eternal abode of Lord, that from where we haven't got to return, that is our, that should be our... (break) Now a question may be raised, what is the way how to approach the supreme abode of the Lord. That is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā.
The brahmavādī, paramātmavādī and the devotees. In spiritual sky or in the brahma-jyotir there are spiritual planets, innumerable spiritual planets, we have already discussed. And the number of those planets are far, far greater than all the universes of this material world. This material world is ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). This is one-fourth part manifestation of the whole creation. Three-fourths part of the creation is the spiritual world and in the one-fourth part of this creation there are millions of universes like this which we are experiencing at the present moment. And in one universe there are millions and billions of planets. So there are millions and billions of suns and stars and moons in all this material world, but all this material world constitute only one-fourth manifestation of the whole creation. The three-fourths manifestation is in the spiritual sky. Now, this mad-bhāvam, one who desires to merge into the existence of the Supreme Brahman, they merge in the brahma-jyotir of the Supreme Lord. Mad-bhāvam means that brahma-jyotir as well as the spiritual planets in the brahma-jyotir. And the devotees, who want to enjoy in the association of the Lord, they enter into the planets, Vaikuṇṭha planets.
So one of the planets, that is also mad-bhāvam, that is also within the spiritual nature. So any transcendentalist who at the end of life, either he thinks of the brahma-jyotir or meditates upon the Paramātmā or thinks of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa, in either case, they enter into the spiritual sky. But only the devotees, those who have practiced personal touch with the Supreme Lord, they enter into the Vaikuṇṭha planets or in the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. The Lord says, yaḥ prayāti sa mad-bhāvaṁ yāti nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ (BG 8.5). There is no doubt. One should not disbelieve. That is the question. So you are reading Bhagavad-gītā throughout the whole life, but when the Lord speaks something which does not tally with our imagination, we reject it. That is not the process of Bhagavad-gītā reading. Just like Arjuna said that sarvam etaṁ ṛtam manye, "I believe in everything, whatever You have said." Similarly, hear, hearing. The Lord says that at the time of death, whoever thinks of Him, either as Brahman or Paramātmā or the Personality of Godhead, certainly he enters into the spiritual sky and there is no doubt about it. One should not disbelieve it. And the process is, general rule is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, how one can, how it is possible to get into the spiritual kingdom simply by thinking of the Supreme at the time of death.
Anucintayan, constantly thinking of Himself only. It is not very difficult process. One has to learn this process from the experienced person in this line. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One should approach a person who is already in the practice. So abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena. This is called abhyāsa-yoga, practicing. Abhyāsa... How to remember the Supreme Lord always. Cetasā nānya-gāminā. The mind, the mind is always flying to this, to that. So one has to practice to concentrate the mind into the form of the Supreme Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa always, or in the sound, in His name which is made easier. Instead of concentrating my mind—my mind may be very restless, going hither and thither, but I can concentrate my ear into the sound vibration of Kṛṣṇa and that will also help me. That is also abhyāsa-yoga. Cetasā nānya-gāminā paramaṁ puruṣaṁ divyaṁ. Paramaṁ puruṣa, that Supreme Personality of Godhead in the spiritual kingdom, in the spiritual sky, one can approach, anucintayan, constantly thinking. So these processes, the ways and means, all are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā and there is no bar for anyone. It is not that a particular class of men can approach.
The Lord says that even a human being in the lowest status of life, lowest status of life, or even a fallen woman, or a mercantile man, or a laborer class of man... The mercantile class of men, the laborer class of men, and the woman class, they are counted in the same category because their intelligence is not so developed. But the Lord says, they also, or even lower than them, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ (BG 9.32), not only they or lower than them, or anyone, it does not matter who is he, or who is she, anyone who accepts this principle of bhakti-yoga and accepts the Supreme Lord as the summum bonum of life, the highest target, highest goal of life, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, that parāṁ gatim in the spiritual kingdom and the spiritual sky, everyone can approach. Simply one has to practice the system. That system is hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā very nicely and one can adopt it and make his life perfect and make a permanent solution of life. That is the sum and substance of the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore, the conclusion is that Bhagavad-gītā is a transcendental literature which one should read very carefully. Gītā-śāstram idaṁ puṇyaṁ yaḥ paṭhet prayataḥ pumān. And the result will be, if he properly follows the instruction, then he can be freed from all miseries of life, all anxieties of life. Bhaya-śokādi-varjitaḥ. All fears of life, in this life, as well as he'll get a spiritual life in the next life.
So Brahman means all-pervading. But this transcendental sound... Just like your radio message, television sound, they cannot go beyond this earthly planet, at most. But there is sound which can penetrate the whole universe and go to the spiritual world. Sound is all-pervading, that is a fact, scientific fact. If that sound is potent, then it can penetrate even this material sky and go to the spiritual sky and go to Kṛṣṇa directly. That sound is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya. I've given that. He has translated very nice, Hayagrīva. Golokera prema-dhana. This is descended from the spiritual platform, Goloka Vṛndāvana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Rati nā janmilo kene tāya. "I have no attachment for these things." I have got attachment for radio sound, or television sound, so many sound, but I have no attachment for the supreme sound which is coming down from the Goloka Vṛndāvana. Golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene... saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale. "In this material world, I am, my heart is always burning on account of so many miseries." Juṛāite nā koinu upāya. "But I could not find out the way how to get out of it. This sound vibration will get you out from the blazing fire of this material condition. This sound, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Chant always, everything will be perfectly done." Yes. Go on.
Just like in a pond if you drop a stone, the circle, the circle begins to enlarge, enlarge, enlarge, enlarge, enlarge, and so similarly, we catch the radio vibration. You know there is numbers. Under such and such vibration, you can catch the sound. So the whole arrangement is like that. Now, if we work even in that arrangement, yoga-sthaḥ, being situated in my spiritual plane, then that will reach to the spiritual sky by enlargement of the circle, enlargement of the circle. I can do work here. You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā that the Lord says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "Anyone who offers in devotion patraṁ puṣpam, a little flower, a little, small leaf, a little water, I accept them. Because it is offered to Me in devotion, therefore I accept them. I take them in My hand." But people may ask question that "Where is the hand? Where is the hand of God?" He says that "I take." "I take" means "I take it in my hand." Without hand there is no question of taking. Therefore Vedic hymn says that apāṇi-pādo javano grahītā: "The Lord has no legs, no hands, but still, He can walk more than the speed of the air, more than the speed of the mind, and He can accept whatever we offer. But He has no hand; He has no leg." So this means that He has no hand, He has no leg, like our limited measured hand or leg. He can stretch His hand anywhere. And similarly, He can stretch, He can hear, from anywhere. That is the prerogative of the Supreme Lord.
Yes. There is a neutral stage. That is not planet. That is the marginal position between the spiritual world and the material world. But one has to come down again. Unless one enters into the spiritual sky and takes his situation in some of the spiritual planet... Just like you fly in the sky. Unless you get some planet, you'll have to come down again. You cannot fly all the days in the sky. That is not possible. That is neutral stage. Neither in other planet, nor in this planet, flying. How long you shall fly? You have to take some shelter. But if you have no shelter in the higher planets or higher situation, then you shall have to come down. So... The same example can be repeated. Suppose if you go in the outer space... Just like the sputnik men, they go sometime. People think, "Oh, where he has gone, so high, so high." But he has not gone anywhere. He's coming down again. So it is false clapping, "Oh, he has gone so high, so high." What is the use of going so high? You are coming down next moment.
So they are simply falsely thinking. Actually, their intelligence is impure, consciousness is impure. Therefore in spite of such endeavors, the result is, āruhya kṛcchreṇa param, although they go very high, say 25,000 miles or millions of miles up, they do not find any shelter, where is moon planet, where is... They come down again to your Moscow city, that's all. Or New York City, that's all. These are the examples. When they're high up, oh, they'll take photograph. "Oh, this planet is so, this earthly planet is so green or so small. I am going round day and night and seeing in one hour three times day and night." All right, very good. Please come down again. (laughs) That's all. māyā is so strong, she will say, "Yes, very good. You are very advanced in your scientific knowledge, but please come down. Come here. Otherwise you are going to be put into the Atlantic Ocean." That's all. And they'll still be puffed up, "Oh, we are making progress. Within next ten years, you can purchase ticket or land in the moon." You know, in Russia they sold land, and they advertised that "There is Sea of Moscow. We have planted our flag on the sea in the..." So these are propaganda. They cannot go even into the nearest planet, what to speak of the spiritual sky. If you actually serious of going to the spiritual sky and Vaikuṇṭhaloka, then take this simple method, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Devotee: Prabhupāda? Does Lord Jesus Christ appear in the spiritual sky with the body he manifested on the earth?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how there can be resurrection? Ordinary body cannot be resurrected. He appeared in his spiritual body, certainly. Jesus Christ told, if I remember, that "Lord, excuse these persons," who were crucifying him. Is it not? He knew that "These rascals, they are killing me, but... They are offending certainly. So they do not know that I cannot be killed, but they are thinking that they are killing." You see? But that was offensive, therefore he begged Lord to be excused because God cannot excuse to the offenders of the devotee. He can excuse one who is offender to God, but if somebody is offender to the devotee, God never excuses. Therefore he prayed for them. That is devotee's qualification. He prays for everyone, even of his enemy. And he could not be killed. That he knew. But those rascals, they thought they were killing Jesus Christ.
Within this material world He's also there. In some of the universes. There are innumerable universes, I have already explained. Somewhere He is there. So a devotee just after giving this body, giving up this body, immediately he is transferred to that universe where Kṛṣṇa is there. And when he's trained up, then he is, again, he's transferred to the Goloka Vṛndāvana, the spiritual sky. These are the description of Sanātana Gosvāmī in Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta, how a living entity...
So in this way we are changing our body but because we are minute particle of Kṛṣṇa.... We have got qualities of Kṛṣṇa not cent percent. Seventy-eight percent. When they are perfect, so minute quantity, then we can also become a little more advanced than at the present moment. But not like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is cent percent perfect. We can become minutely perfect, seventy-eight percent. These are all analyzed by the Gosvāmīs. So in the present stage, our conditioned stage, there is no comparison with Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of becoming Kṛṣṇa. The rascal foolish persons, they claim that they have become Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible. This is the defect, that we forget. They ask so many the incarnation of God, about his past life. They cannot speak.
Prabhupāda: Time has no influence over Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: But time is a feature of Kṛṣṇa, a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Everything is feature of Kṛṣṇa, so time is naturally a feature of Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: If we measure time in this world by our material bodies and yet there is no time in the spiritual sky, but there is difference of type.
Prabhupāda: No. The time influence is not there. Time is eternal. But here the influence of time is acting. Just like this table is new, but by the influence of time it will gradually become old. Therefore there is no influence of time. Every potency of Kṛṣṇa is there, but their activities, as we find here in this material world, they are not there.
Pradyumna: Different time is when the spirit, place, different time and place.
Prabhupāda: No. No. That is the difference between spiritual world and material world. Practically the all variegatedness are there but without any inebriety. That is the difference.
So similarly, the, from higher kingdom, I mean to say, kingdom of God... There is a, exactly the kingdom of God. We have got this information from this Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20). Anya. There is another nature, another nature. Just like you have got a vision of this nature. You find this wall in the sky, blue. Beyond this sky, millions and millions miles away, there is another sky. Paras tasmāt, anya. Anya, there is another nature, which is called sanātana. You'll find in this Bhagavad-gītā, as you make progress. That is called sanātana nature. Sanātana means that nature never annihilates. This nature, this material nature, it is manifested at a certain time, and it remains for a certain period, and then the whole thing is dissolved again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It is manifested and again dissolved, and in, in the spiritual sky. That is the function of this material nature, there is another nature, superior nature, which is called the kingdom of God, sanātana, eternal. Yes. So from that eternal nature all these, either God or representative of God, or incarnation of God, they come down. At times.
Simply by knowing this science he becomes liberated soul. He becomes liberated soul. And what is the position of liberated soul? Liberated soul, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That person who is liberated simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated, and he at once transferred to the spiritual sky into that planet which I am describing, Vaikuṇṭha planet. There are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and each and every planet, Kṛṣṇa is there in different Nārāyaṇa forms.
So this is the opportunity in the human life to understand this. We are submitting to different energies of Kṛṣṇa. But if we directly submit ourself to Kṛṣṇa, what He, Kṛṣṇa, what He is, that is not very difficult to know because Kṛṣṇa comes in this material world and displays His real nature. Anugrahāya manuṣyāṇām, in Bhāgavata. Just to inform the human society that "If you have no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, just see. I have incarnated. How I am doing, you can see. You can have."
Superficially, it may be the brāhmaṇa's business, but in Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no such difference. Even though one is sweeping the temple, it may be śūdra's business, but he can be allowed to worship the Deity, the brāhmaṇa's business. Because a devotee is neither brāhmaṇa, neither kṣatriya, nor vaiśya, nor śūdra, because he is above. He is in the transcendental position. But in this material world, guṇa-karma, if one is not fit for performing the work as a brāhmaṇa, he can work as a śūdra, he can work as a vaiśya, but employment must be there for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Employment must be there.
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, this system is being followed. We have got a very nice business. Spiritual Sky. We are making good profit, millions of dollars. Therefore our expenditure is going on. We sell our books and we sell our Spiritual Sky products. In this way, we meet not less than eight to ten lakhs of rupees expenditure per month, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are not idle; neither we allow anyone to become idle. It is not this business that go to the temple and ring the bell and close the door and go to smoke gāñjā. No, it is not like that. It is not like that.
Now, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is attempt. We are also after land. We are also after building. We are also after money. We are also after business organization, either a sky... What is that? Our? Spiritual Sky. Or this book department, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Apparently, it is business. We also want money. We also land. We want also building. We want also men. Then where is the difference between the ordinary person and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? This is the difference: kāma-saṅkalpa-varjitāḥ. Everyone has sacrificed his life for Kṛṣṇa. Personal? There is no personal interest. These boys, these girls, are working day and night, hard, in my direction, but I don't pay them. Neither they expect any payment. Otherwise this movement would not have proceeded so quickly. There is no question of payment. Kāma-saṅkalpa-varjitāḥ. Everyone is engaged for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa.
The spiritual conception is that, that any number of fragments of the whole can be taken from the whole spirit, but still, the spirit whole is as it is. That is the description in the Vedic literature. We have got material idea: "One minus one equal to zero." But in the spiritual realm, one minus one equal to one. So these fragments, the fragments of the Supreme Brahman, Kṛṣṇa, we are. So with that consciousness, we have to sacrifice.
Brahmārpaṇam brahma havir. And the thing which we are sacrificing, we have to understand that the things belong to the Supreme Brahman. Brahmārpaṇaṁ brahma havir brahmāgnau. And the fire which is on the altar, that is to be understood as the energy of the Supreme Brahman. And brahmaṇā hutam. And the person who is offering the sacrifice, he is also part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. In this way, if we offer sacrifice, then brahmaiva tena gantavyam. The person who is offering such sacrifice is sure to attain spiritual salvation. This is brahma-karma-samādhinā. And the performance is just according to the Vedic injunction. So in this way, if we, I mean to say, execute the duties of our living condition, then the result will be that at the end we shall be attaining Brahman. And the whole process is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
A man who has made sufficient progress to this realization is more perfect. This is the way of perfection. And assured of liberation in the Supreme in the very near future. One has simply... If I am realized then this material composition of this body is disbursed and I am the spirit soul, small particle, I am immediately promoted to the spiritual sky. That is the highest perfection. In the spiritual sky either you remain as a small spark of spirit soul, molecules. Just like there are millions of molecules of shining matter in the sunshine. So if I remain as molecule in the brahma-jyotir, that is also possible. The impersonalist wants that. Or if I enter into some spiritual planet and associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead that is also another spiritual existence. Although both of them are spiritual existence, this spiritual existence is impersonal. To remain as molecular part of the Brahman rays or spiritual rays, that is impersonal. And to have a spiritual form just like Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, that is another spiritual perfection. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.
Devotee: Prabhupāda? You said that spirit soul is one ten-thousandth the tip of a hair. In the spiritual sky, is the spirit soul still just that big?
Prabhupāda: That is his constitutional position. Either in the spiritual sky or material sky, he's the same. But as you develop in the material world a material body, similarly in the spiritual world you can develop a spiritual body. You follow? Your position is that small particle, but spirit can expand. This expansion in the material world is being done in contact with matter. And in the spiritual world, that expansion can be done in spirit. Here in the material world I am spirit soul. I am different from this body because this body is matter and I am living. I am living force, but this material body is not living force. And in the spiritual world there is everything living force. There is no dead matter. Therefore the body is also spiritual. Just like water with water, water, that's all. But water and oil—distinction. Similarly, I am spirit soul, I am the oil. So I am in the water, so there is distinction. But if I am put into the oil, then everything's all right. So the impersonalists, they do not develop body. They simply remain as spirit particle. That is their idea. But we Vaiṣṇava, we want to serve Kṛṣṇa, therefore we require hands, legs and mouth and tongue, everything. So we are giving such body. As you are getting this body from the womb of the mother, similarly we get body in the spiritual world. Not from the womb of the mother, but there is process to get, you can get.
Devotee: "There is no void anywhere in the creation of the Lord. Rather the cessation of material existence enables one to enter into the spiritual sky, the abode of the Lord. The abode of the Lord is also clearly described in the Bhagavad-gītā as that place where there is no need of sun or moon nor electricity."
Prabhupāda: Now you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, we have already, I think in the Second Chapter there is, anyway, that it is said that:
- na tad bhāsayate sūryo
- na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
- (BG 15.6)
Now Kṛṣṇa describes, "My abode, how it is. In that sky, where My abode is there, there is no necessity of sunlight, there is no necessity of moonlight, there is no necessity of electricity." Now you cannot find such abode within this universe. You travel with your sputnik or any machine, you find out some place where there is no sunlight, there is no moonshine.
Here is the information. How can you know which you cannot reach, cannot know with your senses are so imperfect. How can you know? Simply you have to hear. Just like you have to hear about your father from the mother. There is no other way. The father certifies, mother certifies, "Here is your father, you have to accept." You cannot make any experiment. Beyond your names. Similarly if you want to learn about the spiritual sky in God's kingdom, then you have to simply hear from the authority. There is no question of experimental knowledge. Simply hearing. So hearing means, just like you have to believe some gentleman as your father, hearing from the authority of your mother. Simply from the Vedic literature which is accepted as the mother, authority of mother, knowledge. Mother authority. Veda-mātā. It is called Veda-mātā. It is called Veda-mātā. Veda means knowledge and it is received from the mother. So Veda-mātā, the knowledge mother, you have to know what is Kṛṣṇa. And here Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining. So we have to believe it. Then you get the knowledge. Otherwise there is no possibility. You cannot make experiment. Then you fail.
So defend, Kṛṣṇa also advised Arjuna to defend. So defend is also not prohibited provided it is for right cause. So in this way if we can come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately we become free from all contamination. And if we take precaution of these four principles, then our life is pure. And if we can continue this pure life till the time of death you are sure to be transferred to the kingdom of God. Go on. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā you have already read: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). By giving up this body, that person who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not come back again to take part in this material world. This yogi who is coming to a good family, to a righteous family or rich aristocratic family, they are coming back. But if you are perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness you are no more coming back. You are situated in the Goloka Vṛndāvana in the spiritual sky. So we should try not to come back again. Because if I come back again, suppose I have got very nice chance. I have got birth in a very good family, in rich family. But if I cannot utilize it properly, then again I degrade myself to other sort of life. So why should we take this risk. Better complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life. It is very simple. It is not very difficult. Simply to keep yourself in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. It is very simple thing. Then you are assured to your next birth in the spiritual sky in the kingdom of God or in the Goloka Vṛndāvana. Yes.
So we have fallen down. Being rebelled against the principles of God consciousness, we are all fallen down. So if we want to revive our original position, we must be placed again into that service attitude. That is the perfect cure. Otherwise we shall suffer pain and God will be suffering pain on account of us. Just like if your son is not good, you suffer and the son suffers. Similarly, we are all sons of God. So when we are painful, God is also painful. The best thing is to revive our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is natural life and that is possible in the spiritual sky or the Goloka Vṛndāvana. Go on.
Devotee: "In this verse also, the word bhajanti is used. Bhajanti is applicable to the Supreme Lord only, whereas the word 'worship' can be applied to demigods or to any other common living entity.
We can imagine. Just like gagana-sadṛśa. So God is great, but we have no knowledge how He is great. We can simply think of gagana, the sky. That is the greatest. That is our... But we do not know that millions of skies are within the belly of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There our estimation, gagana-sadṛśa, is imperfect. How He can be gagana-sadṛśa? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe, and the gagana is within the universe. Gagana, we cannot see beyond this gagana, but beyond this gagana there is another gagana. In the Bhagavad-gītā... You are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You must know it. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: (BG 8.20) "There is another sky, spiritual sky." Sanātana. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ, sarveṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati. This gagana will be annihilated at the time of destruction, but that does not annihilate.
So there is another nature, spiritual nature, that is not created. Here in the material world, everything is created. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Anything created in the material world, it has got a period, a date, historical date of creation. And again it is annihilated, again it is created. That is the nature of material world. But transcendental to this material sky, there is another sky, which is called paravyoma. That paravyoma is called, in English word, "the kingdom of God." Of course, it is not perfectly expressed, but there is word, "paravyoma," or Vaikuṇṭhaloka. That is Kṛṣṇa's dhāma. So that is existing eternally. So therefore the creative feature of this material world and the spiritual world are different. They are not created. They are existing eternally. So we have to cultivate such knowledge that we can be..., we may be transferred to the spiritual world, because Kṛṣṇa belongs to the spiritual world, acintya-guṇa-svarūpam.
When there is some illumination, when there is some illumination... (aside:) You want to come here? I ask this... All right. When there is some illumination, that illumination is also Kṛṣṇa. The original effulgence is brahma-jyotir. That is in the spiritual sky. This material sky is covered; therefore the nature of this material sky is darkness. Now, at night we are experiencing the real nature of this material world—it is darkness. Artificially, it is being illuminated by the sun, by the moon, by the electricity. Otherwise, it is darkness. So this illumination is God. We have to understand—this illumination.
Now, how this illumination is coming? Originally, in the spiritual sky, just like the sun has the shining force which we call sunshine, similarly in the, from the kingdom of God, there is a shining which is called brahma-jyotir. The brahma-jyotir is reflected by the sun; the moon is reflected by the sun. I mean to say, sun is reflection of brahma-jyotir, and moon is reflection of the sun. Everyone, you know, the stars, glittering stars, they are also reflection of the sun. Similarly, this electricity is also reflection of sun. The diamond, the jewels, everything, that is reflection of sun. (some outside radio noise) That's all right. So Kṛṣṇa says, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Śaśi. Śaśi means the moon, and sūrya... Sūrya means the sun. And in the spiritual world there is no need of sun and moon. Na tad bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ (BG 15.6). In the spiritual world there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity. Because in the spiritual sky everything is illuminated, so there is no need. So we can remember God, or Kṛṣṇa, when you see some illuminating property.
We cannot calculate what is the length and breadth of this universe, but there are millions and millions of universes like this within this material world. And above this material world there is another sky, which is called spiritual sky. And in that sky the planets are all eternal. And there life is eternal also.
This manifestation, this material manifestation, is only three-fourth part of the whole manifestation, both spiritual and material. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). Ekāṁśa means one-fourth part. These manifestations are one-fourth part. And three-fourth part manifestation is beyond this material sky. This material sky is covered. The... When you see to the sky you'll find that ball-like covering. That is the covering. So millions and millions of miles, the covering is there. And after penetrating that covering, you can enter into the spiritual sky. That is open sky.
So Kṛṣṇa says, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ: (BG 8.20) "Beyond this vanquishing, cloudlike material nature, there is another superior nature which is sanātana, eternal. It has no beginning, no end." And yaḥ sa sarveṣu bhūteṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati: "When this material manifestation will be annihilated, that will remain." Just like the cloud, when it is vanquished, when it is annihilated, the sky remains, similarly, spiritual sky will remain; the material covering of the spiritual sky will be vanquished. This is called ghaṭākāśa-poṭākāśa.
So there are many volumes of knowledge of this material sky and spiritual sky. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, you will find description of the spiritual sky, what nature it is, what kind of people remain there, what is their feature—everything. Even we get information that in spiritual sky there is aeroplane, spiritual aeroplane in the spiritual sky. And the living entities, they are liberated. They travel on the spiritual sky on that plane, and it is so nice, just like lightning. The description is... They travel just like lightning. So everything is there. This is only imitation. This material sky and everything, whatever you see—all imitation, shadow. It is shadow. Just like in cinematographic picture you see the shadow of the real thing behind, similarly, this is only shadow.
So our aim is, the human life's aim is, to reach that spiritual sky, but they do not know. Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ: "They do not know that there is reality." There is reality. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know their self-interest, that this human life is meant for understanding that reality and prepare for being transferred into that real reality, not to remain. The whole Vedic literatures instructs us like that. Tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't remain in this darkness." This material world is darkness. We are artificially making it illuminated with electric light and fire and so many things, but the nature is dark. But that nature, that spiritual nature, is not dark. That is full of light. Just like the sun planet, there is no possibility of darkness, similarly, every planet there, they are self-illuminated, so there is no darkness.
Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "Oh, that spiritual sky, there is no need of sun; there is no need of moon; there is no need of electricity." Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. Sūrya means sun. Na śaśāṅkaḥ: "Neither moon." Na pāvakaḥ. Pāvakaḥ means fire, electricity. These things are not required there. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: (BG 15.6) "That is My abode. Anyone who goes there, he doesn't come back again." We get eternal life.
So Kṛṣṇa says, avyakto 'kṣara ity uktas tam āhuḥ paramāṁ gatim (BG 8.21). That nonmanifested... Because in the material eyes, material science... It is not possible to, I mean to say, disclose by material science. What is material science? We cannot go even to this moon planet, what to speak of the spiritual planet. It is not possible. It is not possible. So avyakto 'kṣara ity uktas tam āhuḥ paramāṁ gatim. That is the... If we want to penetrate the outer space, we should be able to penetrate this outer space or this covering, then enter into that spiritual sky, and there it is called paramāṁ gatim.
Therefore if we at all want to go, that spiritual sky, and attain real life, eternal life, blissful life, and full of knowledge, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ... Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). The Lord has got this body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. We have also that sort of body, but it is very small. Now it is covered by this matter, by this dress, and if we some way or other able to give up this false dress, then we reach that spiritual kingdom, God's kingdom. That is paramāṁ gatim. Yaṁ prāpya: "If you can reach there, if you can achieve that perfection," yaṁ prāpya na nivartante, "if at once you go, you cannot..., no more to come back. No more to come back." Yaṁ prāpya na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: "That is My superior abode."
So puruṣa... So in that spiritual planet, puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha, there is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the spiritual planet there are... Just like you see here millions of planets or stars within this universe. This universe is a small particle only. There are many universes like this. And in the spiritual sky there are three... This is only one-fourth manifestation of the planets. There are other. Three-fourth is there in the spiritual sky. That information is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). So each and every spiritual planet, there is expansion of Kṛṣṇa, and they are differently named. In that picture we will find, our Bhāgavata. Innumerable. So puruṣa. They are all puruṣa. Puruṣa means the person. They are not imperson. Puruṣa. Puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ. But superior. Puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha bhaktyā labhyaḥ. You can approach that puruṣa simply by devotional service, not by challenge, not by philosophical speculation or not by exercise of this yoga and that yoga. No. Simply by surrender and devotional service. It is clearly stated. It is not stated that you can reach there by philosophical speculation, mental concoction or by some physical exercise. This is not possible.
We have been discussing about the transcendental world. The transcendental world is above this material sky. The material sky is also a part of the transcendental sky or spiritual sky—it is covered only. This thing we have already explained. Just like the sky, some part of the sky is covered by cloud. The cloud cannot cover the whole sky. That is not possible. That is not in the power of the cloud. Only insignificant portion of the cloud, er, sky, is covered by cloud. Similarly, the unlimited sky, spiritual sky, and some portion of it, when it is covered by mahat-tattva or a spiritual cloud, the portion which is covered, it is called material sky.
This material sky is meant for the conditioned soul. Just like the prison house. What is this prison house? The prison house is a certain area of the state, walled, all sides walled and protected, so that the prisoners may not come out. That is called prison. But it is within the state, within the city, under insignificant portion. Similarly, this material manifestation is only a very insignificant portion of the spiritual sky, and it is covered so that we may not go to the spiritual sky. That is not possible. We cannot go. We cannot travel even in the outer space of this material sky. So we have got very limited potency. But this is the situation.
So there, in the spiritual sky, there are spiritual planets, and on each planet the Lord is manifested. There are innumerable planets. So here it is, that information is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, that puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha: "That spiritual sky, the predominating Personality of Godhead is transcendental."
There, the Personality of Godhead, there is nobody rival. Just like here, the predominating personality, President Johnson, when the next election will come, there will be so many rivals. But in the spiritual sky there is no rival. In the spiritual sky the Supreme Lord is the Supreme. And those who wanted to become rival, they are put into this material sky, under condition of the material nature. This is the difference between spiritual sky and material sky.
So puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha. There the predominating Personality of Godhead is transcendental. Because there is no rivalry, there are also inhabitants; in those planets, there are inhabitants. They are liberated souls. In the Bhāgavata we get information that their feature of the body is exactly like God. In some of the planets the God is manifested in two hands; and some of the planets, the God is manifested in four hands. And the living entities, they are also of the same feature. The inhabitants or citizens, they are also of the four hands. And one cannot distinguish who is God and who is not God. This is called sārūpya-mukti, liberation of the same feature.
The lower grade life and higher grade life in this material world means those who are proportionately less sinful, they are promoted in higher planets. You cannot be free from sinful reaction in this material world. There will be some portion, some percentage. So the higher grade life and lower grade life means those who are proportionately greater sinful, they have got lower grade life, and those who have got greater pious life, they get higher grade life in higher planets, in Brahmaloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka. Tapoloka means those who have performed here severe penances, and they are transferred there in Tapoloka. In Tapoloka, when there is destruction, annihilation of this material world, in the Tapoloka there is no destruction. They get information, "Now annihilation has begun." There is a great fire, and they still feel that heat, and at that time they transfer themselves to the spiritual sky. That mention we have got. So yajñair iṣṭvā svargatiṁ prārthayante.
Just like we are changing different dresses. Sometimes I am, I have got this body, Indian, sometimes you have got this body, American, and sometimes I may get the body of a dog or a hog or something else. I may get the body of demigod. As these changes of dresses are going on, cycle of birth and death, transmigration of the soul in different forms of life, similarly, there is transmigration of the soul in different planets. So ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ... This system of going up and down should be stopped. That is the business of an intelligent person. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). We should try to go (to) that planet where going, no more coming back. That is Kṛṣṇaloka. That is Vaikuṇṭha, the spiritual sky. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). Beyond this material sky there is spiritual sky. There are spiritual planets, and Kṛṣṇaloka is there. So Kṛṣṇa gives here hint that mad-yājino 'pi mām: "As others are going, trying to go in other planets, similarly, those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, those who are absolutely worshiper of the Supreme Lord, they will come to Me. They will come to Me." Mām upetya tu kaunteya. In other place... There are several places mentioned, this fact.
So in that absolute stage, if we want to go to that absolute stage, then this is the process. This is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually, as we develop, so Kṛṣṇa is within everyone, the Supersoul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as Paramātmā, He's seated in everyone's heart, and, as we become purified, as we become sincere, all dictation will come from within and He will show you the path which following you shall be happy and prosperous and, at the end, by quitting this body, you shall reach the supreme abode of Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual sky. These are, all these have been discussed in the last chapters, eighth chapter, seventh chapter.
Devotee: When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Kṛṣṇa, we have a perfect relationship with Kṛṣṇa, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we're already serving Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don't fall down." And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I can't understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving...
Prabhupāda: Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire. Because he has associated with a different type of material quality... The same man who was drinking, now, as soon as they come in our association, he becomes a saint. Why? The American government spent millions of dollars to stop this habit of intoxication, LSD. And as soon as the same man comes to our society, he immediately gives up. Why? It is practical. Immediately. At the initiation time we ask that "You don't touch all these things." Yes. That's all.
Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is another nature. This nature, what you see, the sky, a round dome, that, above that, there are layers of five elements again. This is the covering. Just like you have seen the coconut. There is hard covering, and within the covering there is water. Similarly, within this covering... And outside the covering there are five layers, thousand times bigger than the one another: Water layer, air layer, fire layer. So you have to penetrate all these layers. Then you will get the spiritual world. All these universes, unlimited number, koṭi. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Jagad-aṇḍa means the universe. Koṭi, many millions clustered together, that is material world. And beyond that material world there is spiritual world, another sky. That is also sky. That is called paravyoma. So by your sense perception you cannot estimate even what is there in the moon planet or sun planet, this planet, within this universe. How you can understand the spiritual world by speculation? This is foolishness.
If we want to go to Vaikuṇṭha planet or Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, beyond this material sky... That is... There is another sky. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). These informations are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is another sky which is called paravyoma. That is spiritual sky. That spiritual sky is eternal. When everything is annihilated within this material sky, that remains eternally. That is called sanātana-dhāma. So sanātana-jīva, sanātana. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). It is stated there. So jīva is sanātana. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And Kṛṣṇa is also sanātana. In the Eleventh Chapter Kṛṣṇa is addressed, sanātana. And here there is another sky which is called sanātana. Avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ. So this sanātana-dhāma and sanātana association... Kṛṣṇa is sanātana, living entity is sanātana, and there is a sanātana-dhāma.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
One portion of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has direct expansion and expansion of the expansion. Just like Kṛṣṇa, His immediate expansion is Baladeva, Balarāma. Then from Balarāma the next expansion is Catur-vyūha, quadruple: Saṅkarṣaṇa, Vāsudeva, Aniruddha, Pradyumna. Again, from this Saṅkarṣaṇa there is another expansion, Nārāyaṇa. From Nārāyaṇa, another expansion. Again, second status of Saṅkarṣaṇa, Vāsudeva... Not only one Nārāyaṇa, but innumerable Nārāyaṇas. Because in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, the spiritual sky, there are innumerable planets. How many? Now, just imagine here in this universe there are planets. This is one universe. There are millions of planets. You cannot count. You cannot count. So similarly, there are innumerable universes also. That also you cannot count. Still, all these universes taken together is only one-fourth manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's expansion. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka there is three-fourths expansion. So we cannot count even one planet how many Kṛṣṇa's expansions are there, because He is aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). He's within the atom also. The scientists are perplexed to analyze one atom. More and more they're finding components. Kṛṣṇa... Therefore His name is Ananta. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). He has got multiforms. Multiforms.
Prabhupāda: No, he is not identical. But the name is identical. But we are dāsa.
Revatī-nandana: That's right. Just like my name is Revatī-nandana dāsa. So that is a name of Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Revatī-nandana is identical with Kṛṣṇa. We are Revatī-nandana dāsa.
Revatī-nandana: Oh, yes. That is clear. His question is "Does that mean that when I'm in the spiritual sky I'm going to be a servant of Balarāma directly?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.
Revatī-nandana: But once you told me that... I asked you if we were all devotees of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. You said, "Well, we might also be devotees of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, or Sītā-Rāma..."
Prabhupāda: None of them are different from Kṛṣṇa. Revatī-nandana is also Kṛṣṇa.
So there are very particular informations of all the planets within this universe. Not only within this universe; there are many other planets beyond this universe. That is called Vaikuṇṭhaloka, spiritual world. The spiritual sky is there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That is perpetual, that anything in that sky is perpetual, and anything within this material sky, they are temporary. In the Brahmaloka there may be duration of life millions of millions of year, but that is also destructible. That is material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna: (BG 8.16) "Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, you will have to come back again." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "But if you come to My loka..." There is Kṛṣṇaloka. That is in the spiritual world, spiritual sky.
Those who are in the platform of goodness, they worship nārāyaṇa-kalāḥ śāntāḥ, Nārāyaṇa and His expansions. In the spiritual world, there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets. As we have got experience within this material world, within this universe, there are innumerable planets, similarly there is another sky. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That sky is eternal. This sky is not eternal. It is created. It has got a date of creation, and it will be annihilated at a certain date. So beyond the sky there is another sky, which is called paravyoma, or sanātana, eternal sky. And in that sky there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets. Vaikuṇṭha means vigata-kuṇṭha hy asmāt. There is no anxiety. Here in this material world everyone is full of anxiety. This is the material nature. Even a small bird—you give some grains to the small bird, he'll be full of anxiety. He'll look like this, look like this. Yes. "If somebody's coming to kill me? Somebody's coming to kill me?" That is explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja: sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). The living entities in this material world, they are full of anxieties. Why? Asad-grahāt. Why? Because they have accepted something which will not exist. Asad-grahāt. There are two things: asat and sat. So oṁ tat sat. Paraṁbrahma Bhagavān, He's sat. And this material world, asat. Asat means "that which does not exist."
Upendra: "It is like the cloud in the clear sky. In the spiritual sky, the effulgence of Brahman is spread all round and the whole system is dazzling in spiritual light. The mahat-tattva is assembled in some corner of the that vast unlimited spiritual sky and the part which is thus covered by the mahat-tattva is called the material sky."
Prabhupāda: This is also very important. The sky is one. Just like we can experience the sky, and suppose the sky on San Francisco is overcast with cloud. We say that then we are covered in cloud. Practically this San Francisco sky is only a fragmental portion of the whole sky. Similarly, the real sky is that spiritual sky, paravyoma. When that paravyoma partially is clouded with mahat-tattva, that is called material world. This is the position of material world. Material world is also existing in the spiritual world, but it is covered and in a fragmental segment. Yes.
Upendra: "This part of the spiritual sky, called the mahat-tattva, is only an insignificant portion of the whole spiritual sky, and within this mahat-tattva there are innumerable universes. All these universes collectively is produced by the Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu called also the Mahā-Viṣṇu who simply throws His glance only to impregnate the material sky to manifest." Text 2. Translation: "Another plenary part of the puruṣa is lying down within the water of the universe from the navel lake of His body which has sprouted the lotus stem (which is the body of the universe) and on the top, from the lotus flower Brahmā the master of all engineers of the universe, is generated." Purport: "The First puruṣa is the Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. From the skinholes of Him innumerable universes have sprung up. In each and every one of them the puruṣa enters as the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. He is lying in half portion of the universe full with water of His body. And from the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu has sprung up the stem of the lotus flower the birth place of Brahmā who is the father of all living beings and the master of all the demigod engineers engaged in the matter of perfect design and working of the universal order. Within the stem of the lotus there are fourteen divisions of planetary system and the earthly planets are situated in the middle. Upwards there are other better planetary systems and the topmost system is called Brahmaloka or the Satyaloka. Downwards the earthly planetary system there are seven downwards planetary systems domiciled by the asuras and similar other most materialistic living beings. From this Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu there is expansion of the Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu who is the collective Paramātmā of all living beings. He is called Hari and from Him all incarnations within the universe are expanded."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the father of Brahmā who has created all these innumerable planets. And in one of the planets there is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. In that planet the ocean is of milk. There are different kinds of ocean, as we get information from Vedic literature. As we have got here the ocean of water, similarly there is ocean of milk, there is ocean of oil, there is... Just like you have got oil within earth, similarly in those planets there are oil ocean, milk ocean.
Upendra: "One who knows these plenary features of the Personality of Godhead knows also Him (Godhead) properly and thus the knower becomes freed from the material conditions of birth, death, old age and diseases as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. In this śloka the subject matter of Mahā-Viṣṇu is summarized. The Mahā-Viṣṇu lies down in some part of the spiritual sky by His own free will and thus He does lie on the ocean of kāraṇa from where He glances over His material nature and the mahat-tattva is at once created. Thus electrified by the power of the Lord the material nature creates at once innumerable universes just like in due course a tree is decorated with innumerable grown up fruits all at a time. The seed of the tree is sown by the cultivator and the tree or creeper in due course becomes manifested with so many fruits. Nothing can take place without a cause. The kāraṇa ocean is therefore called the Causal Ocean. Kāraṇa means causal. We should not foolishly accept the theory of creation by the atheist without any cause. The description of such atheists is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. The atheist does not believe in the creator neither he can give any good explanation of the theory of creation. Material nature has no power to create..."
Prabhupāda: The atheist class of men, they do not agree to accept that this material world is created by God. They give some reason of their own way of thinking, and most of the arguments are "perhaps like this, perhaps like this, perhaps like this." What is this nonsense, "perhaps"? Is that science? "Perhaps"? So they have no sufficient reason that there is no creator. In everything, we find there is a creator. Anything you take. Take for example this table. There is a creator. Somebody has manufactured it. Or this microphone, somebody has created it. Anything you take, you have to find out some creator. And such a vast, gigantic thing, going on so nicely and punctually... The sun is rising punctually, the moon is rising punctually, the fortnight is going on, the season is coming punctually—everything. Why there should be no creator or no superintendent? That answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence." So if you accept this, then the whole problem is solved. But if we don't accept it, then we have to speculate. But we never to come to the right conclusion, how this creation began. That is not possible to understand by such way.
So He is neither brāhmaṇa... This brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahma..., they are these material designations. They are not actually fact. So, as Kṛṣṇa is not belonging to this material world... He belongs to the spiritual... Prakṛteḥ param. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, para. Para means "another," or "the superior." Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that... You are seeing this material world up to the sky. Your vision is up to the sky, although you do not know what are these planets, how they are existing. You have no knowledge. But still, at least, you can get experience that this universe is covered by this round sky, and within this universe there are so many planets.
So... So Kṛṣṇa does not belong to these planets or this material sky. He belongs to the paravyoma. Again paravyoma means sky. And para means the superior, or spiritual. Therefore Kṛṣṇa does not... Kṛṣṇa belongs to everything because everything is Kṛṣṇa's, but He has got His special abode. That is Vaikuṇṭha, Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is situated in the spiritual sky, not in this material sky. A... In the material sky, the, that Goloka Vṛndāvana is there, replica, just Vṛndāvana, where we go. When Kṛṣṇa comes... Just like government, the governor or the king, when he is on tour in every city he has got a special house.
So Vidura, he was a saintly person. He was received by the Pāṇḍavas and treated just like denizens. (reads:) "In those days denizens of heavenly planets used to visit homes like that of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, and sometimes persons like Arjuna and others used to visit higher planets." We get information. Arjuna also went to the heavenly planets, and persons from heaven, when there was big yajñas, sacrifice, they used to come and visit Indra, Candra. And sometimes person like... (reads:) "Nārada is a spaceman who can travel unrestrictedly not only within the material universes but also in the spiritual universes." Wherever he wanted, he could go. He can go. He's still living. Not that... (reads:) "Even Nārada used to visit the palace of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, and what to speak of other celestial demigods." It is only the spiritual culture of the people concerned that makes interplanetary travel possible, even in the present body. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira therefore received Vidura in the manner of reception offered to the demigods. This example means demigods were visiting.
But Nārada Muni has freedom. Nārada Muni is going from one planet to another. He is coming from the spiritual sky through the material sky, because he is perfect bhakta. So that is the ideal living entity. As Kṛṣṇa has got full freedom, similarly when we become perfect, Kṛṣṇa conscious, we also become free. This is our position. But not in the conditioned state that we can move. Cannot. Baddha. Brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān, we are conditioned. But in the conditioned state also, if we follow the Vedic principles we can be happy. Happy, and this human form of life especially, it is meant for that purpose, that you live happily, save time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that next life you are no more in this material world. You are transferred to the spiritual world. This is the purpose of human life. But these rascals they do not know. They think that we are advancing civilization , because the cats and dogs they are lying on..., on the floor and sleep, we have got 104-stories building and we lie down there. This is their advancement. But they do not understand that the sleeping, the enjoyment by sleeping, it is the same to the dog and to the man who is lying on the 104th planet, story. Similarly, sex life to the dog and to the man or to the demigod, the pleasure is the same. There is no difference. If you drink milk on a golden pot or an iron pot, the taste is the same. You cannot change the taste of the milk, or anything, putting into the golden pot.
Pradyumna: "Thus by pure consciousness due to constant devotional remembrance, they attained the spiritual sky, which is ruled by the Supreme Nārāyaṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is attained only by those who meditate upon the one Supreme Lord without deviation. This abode of the Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, known as Goloka Vṛndāvana, cannot be attained by persons who are absorbed in the material conception of life. But the Pāṇḍavas, being completely washed of all material contamination, attained that abode in their very same bodies." (SB 1.15.47-48)
Prabhupāda: Tad-dhyāna udriktayā. Dhyāna means meditation. So the Pāṇḍavas, always they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa. While they were eating, they were sitting, they were sleeping, they were talking, they were fighting-Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When Arjuna was fighting, so there was also Kṛṣṇa. When they were dealing in politics with Duryodhana, there was Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is his friend, always talking with him, staying with him, sleeping with him, eating with him.
Therefore it is called bhūri-bharavatāra. And Kṛṣṇa comes to mitigate. Dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. Kṛtāvatārasya harer dharitri. This is the purpose of avatāra. Avatāra, this word is very significant. The tara, tara means movement; and ava, ava means down. Just like avanati. So avatāra. Kṛṣṇa lives in the spiritual sky, beyond this material sky, very high, and Kṛṣṇa-loka, the planet of Kṛṣṇa, is the topmost planet in the spiritual world. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43). The topmost planet is Goloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. You have seen the picture. It is lotuslike. So goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni: "That is His personal abode." Tale ca tasya, "below that," goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43), "below that planet," goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu. Devī. This universe, this material universe, is called devī-dhāma. Devī-dhāma means under the protection, or supervision, of mother nature. That is called devī-dhāma, material nature. So goloka-dhāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī, devī-dhāma.
So therefore this process, that "I shall go by my strength. I shall know by dint of my own knowledge, research work," these are all rascaldom. It is not possible. So what to speak of understanding God? You cannot understand even what is in your presence, the material world, and spiritual is beyond the sky. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). That is another sky. You have no estimation of this sky. Not only this, this sky; even in the material world, this is one universe. What sky we see, that is of one universe. But there are innumerable universes. That is material world. And beyond that, there is spiritual sky. Then the spiritual world begins. There are also planets, Vaikuṇṭha planets. And above these Vaikuṇṭha planets, there is Kṛṣṇaloka. That is Kṛṣṇa's abode. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu (Bs. 5.29).
Pradyumna: Swamiji, is there such thing as mind, intelligence, and ego on the spiritual realm?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? Ego... I am thinking at the present moment ego falsely. "I am somebody belonging to this material world," either I may think that "I am American," either I think "I am Indian," something of this material world. But similarly, when you think ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul," that is also aham, ahaṅkāra. Ego means ahaṅkāra, identification, self-identification, ahaṅkāra, "I am." Everyone has got the sense, "I am." Now, that "I am" thinking, at the present moment I am thinking in my material concept. So when I will think in spiritual concept, that is my pure ego, pure identification. So ego will remain. Ego will not vanish. This "I" consciousness will remain, but here, at the present moment, I am misidentifying myself, and when I actually know myself, that identification is pure ego.
Therefore a devotee is not allured by any of the opulences of this material world. They are not interested. They are interested to transfer themselves in the spiritual world where, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That sphere, that sky, where going, nobody comes back to this sky... This is material sky, and there is spiritual sky. These informations are there. If you accept it, then it is all right. But if you..., even if you don't accept it, that is also all right, because we take Vedic version as absolute truth. So these informations are there and they have been accepted by great ācāryas. Not that we are simply accepting. Great ācāryas. Just like Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, and modern age Śrī Rāmānuja, Śrī Madhvācārya, Śrī Caitanya. They are great scholars. They're great, expert in the spiritual science. They have accepted. And we accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by His activities, by the definition of possessing all the six opulences. We don't accept anybody, an ordinary man... Just like now it is a fashion. Everybody comes and says, "I am God." No. We don't accept in that way. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa. He knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but, in order to convince us that in future there may not be any misunderstanding about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he requested Kṛṣṇa to show His universal form. So He showed him. So there is no doubt about, about Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Similarly, this material creation is like that. It is just like a cloud in the vast spiritual ocean, sky. The sky is spiritual. This sky in which we are now existing, that is not spiritual. Just like the sky, covered by the clouds, is the same sky, but it is covered. Similarly, we are living within the covered sky, and if you penetrate the cover, then you go to the spiritual sky. While going to the spiritual sky, you have to give up your body.
The body is a combination of five elements. So there is stock in the... This universe is covered by seven layers: earth, water, fire, air, like that. When we shall be going to the spiritual sky, we have to pass through the seven layers. And each layer is ten times bigger than the first. Suppose we pass the air layer; the next layer, the fire, is ten times bigger. Then water, ten times. In this way, we have to pass through. We are so much tightly packed up. It is not so easy that I take a sputnik and go anywhere. No. That requires sādhana-bhajana, practice, how to give up this encagement of seven layers and then completely pure spirit soul, you enter into the spiritual sky. That is merging in the spiritual effulgence. Brahmajyoti. Then you can go further and enter into the spiritual planets, if you are fit for that. Otherwise you'll remain in the brahma-jyotir. Nirviśeṣa, without any variety. Simply light. As the jñānīs, they want. But you cannot stay there.
Pradyumna: "The kingdom of God or the atmosphere of Vaikuṇṭha nature, which is called the tripād-vibhūti, is three times bigger than the material universes and is described here as also in the Bhagavad-gītā, in a nutshell. This universe, containing billions of stars and planets, is one of the billions of such universes clustered together within the compass of mahat-tattva. And all these millions and billions of universes combined together constitute only one-fourth of the magnitude of the whole creation of the Lord. There is the spiritual sky also. Beyond this sky the spiritual planets are there under the names of Vaikuṇṭha, and all of them constitute three-fourths of the entire creation of the Lord. God's creations are always innumerable. Even leaves of a tree cannot be counted by a man, nor the hairs on his head. However, foolish men are puffed up with the idea of becoming God himself, although unable to create a hair of their own bodies."
Prabhupāda: So I have protested this false God consciousness in all my purports. That is my business, to punish all these rascals. You see? I become very much angry, anyone says before me, "I am God, he is God, everyone..." I cannot control myself. (laughter) Yes. I am so obstinate enemy of these rascals. I want to kick them on their face, but it is incivility. It becomes... But I want to kick them. It will be my pleasure. Never mind I go to hell. Go on.
There is another world, but what the scientists have got information? They have no information, sufficient information of this material world. But there is another world, another nature. This nature, we can, although we cannot reach, there are millions and trillions of stars glittering in the evening. We can see simply. Simply we can see. We cannot go even to the moon star. Moon is also a star, nearest star. That's all. Similarly, all these stars, they are like moon. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. Kṛṣṇa says, nakṣatrāṇām. They are nakṣatra. The nakṣatra, the modern science, they say they are all suns. No. They are like moon, glittering. If we have to believe our śāstra. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. So we cannot even go to the nearest planet, nearest star, and what to speak of going beyond? Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). The spiritual, there is spiritual sky, paravyoma. That is called paravyoma. This is called material vyoma, and... The vyoma means ākāśa.
Rocket, yes. But then, going with great force, but āruhya kṛcchreṇa... Similarly, one can rise up to the Brahman effulgence, but if there is no shelter. Just like these people are going, but they don't get any shelter. But they come down again. Similarly, one, by severe austerities and penances, may go up to the Brahmaloka, but he has no position. He has no position. Because in the Brahmaloka, or Vaikuṇṭhaloka, in the Paravyoma, the spiritual sky, there are spiritual planets. They are called Vaikuṇṭhaloka. Hundreds and millions there are. Very, very big, big planets than these material planets. So unless you get a shelter in one of the planets, then you again fall down.
So Vedic sound begins: om. So that is a sound. So if we capture that sound and make further progress, śabdād anāvṛtti... In the Vedānta-sūtra it is there, anāvṛtti, no more repetition of birth and death, oṁkāra. If one can chant oṁkāra at the time of death, immediately transferred to the spiritual world, impersonal spiritual effulgence. But if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you go to the spiritual planet. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Anta-kāle, at the time of death, if you can capture this sound, oṁkāra or Hare Kṛṣṇa... If you capture oṁkāra, then you are transferred to the spiritual sky. As it is said, the sky. Śabdāt... Śabda-mātram abhūt tasmān nabhaḥ. Nabha is sky. So there is a point wherefrom the sky, the material sky, begins and there is spiritual sky. The sky is spiritual wherefrom the śabda is resounded. Because there is sky, therefore there is sound. Because there is sound, therefore the instrument of hearing sound, the ear, is there.
So ether, the sky, we cannot see, we cannot touch, we cannot smell. But we can hear the sound. As soon as there is sound, that, we know that there is ether or sky. The sound vibration... As we have got experience of this material sound and therefore the material sky, similarly, there is spiritual sound and there is spiritual sky. Without sky, there is no sound. So there is spiritual sky. We get information from śāstra: paravyoma. Vyoma is called sky, and there is another sky. This is material sky, what we have experience. There is spiritual sky. And about that spiritual realization, as this creation begins from the sky-ether, then air, then fire, and then water, then land, kṣitir āp tejo marud vyoma—similarly, the spiritual world also begins from the spiritual sky. After this sky ends, then the spiritual sky begins.
That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: (BG 8.20) "There is another bhāva," means nature, "that is sanātana nature, eternal nature." This nature, this sky, is temporary. It has got a duration of life, maybe millions and trillions of years, but it is not permanent. It is emanating from the Supreme Lord's breathing period. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). So after this sky, there is another sky, and the sound produced from that sky is oṁkāra and Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is the sound vibration from the spiritual sky.
That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ: (BG 8.20) "There is another bhāva," means nature, "that is sanātana nature, eternal nature." This nature, this sky, is temporary. It has got a duration of life, maybe millions and trillions of years, but it is not permanent. It is emanating from the Supreme Lord's breathing period. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). So after this sky, there is another sky, and the sound produced from that sky is oṁkāra and Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is the sound vibration from the spiritual sky. Therefore it is effective immediately. Just like you contact thousands of miles away—somebody is speaking, and you can contact by the sound vibration you catch up with your machine, radio machine—similarly, the sound vibration from the spiritual sky you can also receive. That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
So we can enter into the spiritual world, the spiritual sky. The spiritual sky is there. Sanātana. That is eternal. Sanātana. Everything eternal there. In the material world they are, everything, temporary, asat. And everything in the spiritual world, that is called sat. Oṁ tat sat. That is spiritual world. So the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gama: "Try to transcend from this asat, material world, to go to the spiritual world, sat." Oṁ tat sat. That is actually our business. In the human form of life this is the only business: "How to transfer me to the spiritual world." Sanātana. "Because I am sanātana." Jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). Jīva is sanātana, eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The jīva is never destroyed after the destruction or annihilation of this body. He is eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So this is our business, that "I am eternal. As Kṛṣṇa, God, is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), and I am part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, so as Kṛṣṇa is eternal, so I am also eternal." The Vedic mantra says that nityo nityānām. Kṛṣṇa is nitya, eternal, and we are plural number, nityānām. Cetanaś cetanānām. Sat cit... So as Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, so we are also sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. The difference is: Kṛṣṇa is the maintainer, Viṣṇu is the maintainer, and we are maintained. We are not maintainer.
The spiritual world, there are also so many planets as we have got planets in this material world. Beyond the sky, there is another spiritual sky. That information is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another sky, which is eternal, it is beyond this manifested and nonmanifested material cosmic world. So in that world, nothing is vanquished. Everything is permanent, eternal. The jīva, the living entity, is eternal, and Kṛṣṇa is also eternal, and His abode, Vaikuṇṭha-dhāma or Goloka Vṛndāvana-dhāma, that is also eternal. This Vṛndāvana is replica of that Vṛndāvana. When Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet, he comes here in this Vṛndāvana land. Therefore, it is so..., it is transcendental, because it is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, pastimeous place. Therefore it is transcendental. It is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. As much as Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly this Vṛndāvana is also worshipable.
Beyond the universe, there is spiritual sky. There are also different planets. But in those planets the predominating deity is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. And in this material world, in each and every planet, the predominating deity or the person is a very pious human being or living being. Generally, human being. In other higher planetary system they are also like human being. Their features are exactly like us: two hands, two legs, one head, like that. But they are very pious. They are God conscious. Every, in every planet the living entities or human being, they are of different grades. Just like in this planet also, in some portion of this world there are savages, uncivilized persons, and in some portion of the world there are civilized persons, intelligent persons, God conscious persons, as there are different grades of persons in this planet, similarly, there are different grades of beings, living beings or human beings, in different other planets. The higher and lower grades are calculated in terms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Because this universe, you cannot estimate. You can see the border of the universe, the round sky, but nobody can reach there. There is no such means. The scientists calculate it will take forty thousands of years to reach there by the light year. So they are so much proud of material science. They see the sun, the moon. They cannot go there. Cannot go there. There are so many planets; we see at night. They are actually planets like this planet. But who can go there? You are so limited. So how you can go to the planet where Kṛṣṇa lives, Goloka Vṛndāvana? You cannot go even to reach these material planets, what to speak of the spiritual planets. The spiritual planets means crossing this wall, the sky, seven layers of wall. Earth, water, again. And each layer is ten times bigger than the other layer. This is the construction of the universe. So you have to penetrate through these layers. Then you come to the spiritual sky. And the spiritual sky, there are millions of planets, Vaikuṇṭha planets. And the topmost is Goloka Vṛndāvana. So just imagine how far it is, Kṛṣṇa's abode.
So yoga practice is so... That is also a kind of freedom. We do not know what is freedom. Liberation, I am speaking on the point of liberation. But he was also not liberated, that Durvāsā Muni, although he could travel from one planet to another, another, another, even up to Viṣṇuloka. He was not liberated. He had to come back. Liberation means that you go to the spiritual realm, the spiritual sky, and you do not come back again. It is not like that, that after spending many millions of dollars you go to the moon planet and touch it and bring some sand, and you are satisfied. You see? Don't waste in that. If you go, live there. (laughter) Just like I came to the Western country to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, now I am living. I am not after taking some money and bluffing and go away. No. I am standing here. I am facing, "Come on," any philosopher, any scientist, any religion, "Come on and see the beauty of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
So unless he comes back, I cannot take any food." So he took only one year. The modern scientists, they are estimating that to go to the topmost planet of this universe, it will take forty thousands of years. That is their estimation. Now, Durvāsā Muni, by his yogic power, he not only crossed over this material space and the material universe, but he went to the other space, paravyoma, where he saw Lord Viṣṇu, and he came back within a year. So that is yoga. One can reach even the sun planet by the beams. This is yoga practice. By touching the beams he can go to the sun planet. There are so many wonderful things. So Durvāsā Muni was a great yogi. He knew all these things. Still, he was defeated before a Vaiṣṇava. He had to come and immediately fall down, "Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, kindly excuse me. I have done offense." Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was so humble that "You are in trouble, brāhmaṇa, so whatever I have got, asset, whatever I have done austerity, penance, and..., you take immediately and be excused." This is Vaiṣṇava: "You take all my asset." So there was very friendly. Then both of them took prasādam, and then Durvāsā Muni could understand what is the power of devotee. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. So be very much careful to remain a spotless devotee. Then all success is there. There is no doubt about it. There are so many instances.
The betel nut You can see the sky is within your experience, but how many stars and planets are there, till now nobody has been able to count. It is unlimited. This is only one universe. There are millions and millions, universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Within the brahma-jyotir there are innumerable koṭi, jagadaṇḍa-koṭi. And some of the portion is called material; some portion is called spiritual sky, paravyoma. But the whole spiritual and material sky is full of different planets, and each planet is full of living entities. Janakirna. This very word is used, janakirna, not vacant as these rascals are calculating that it is full of dust. (screeching noise—aside:) What is that? It is full of dust and rocks. (sounds of children playing) (aside:) Ask them to be... Nothing is full of dust. Dust is there, as well as living entities are also there. Janakirna. This is God's creation.
And this material world, ananta-koṭi-brahmāṇḍa, that is material. And Kṛṣṇa says ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). This is only one part manifestation of the creation. Three-fourths part is this paravyoma.
Kulaśekhara: Could you explain a little bit about the position in which we were situated in the spiritual sky before coming to the material world?
Devotee: What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material world?
Prabhupāda: You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly... The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Kṛṣṇa by the cloud of illusion, that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted(?)... When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky. You are in the same sky. When the cloud is clear, you are in the same sky. But the difference of position is due to the cloud. That is called māyā. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. And as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is spiritual. Just like here, this temple is not in London. It is Vaikuṇṭha.
So they never saw Viṣṇudūta before, these Yamadūtas, because they go in an atmosphere where sinful activities are executed. But this time they were astonished, that "How these beautiful personalities are here?" Kiṁ devā upadevā vā yūyaṁ kiṁ siddha-sattamāḥ. So, "Will you kindly let us know wherefrom you are coming? Are you coming from the Siddhaloka planet or heavenly planet?" Because in the material world nobody knows that there is a spiritual sky beyond this material sky... As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmād tu bhava anyaḥ: "There is another nature." This is one nature, material nature, where millions and trillions of universes are clustered together in the corner of the spiritual sky. This is only one universe, within which there are innumerable planets. But there are millions and trillions of universes also. That is material creation. Material creation means one-fourth part of the whole creation. Three-fourths part is spiritual creation. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "This whole material world is existing in one fourth of My energy." kiṁ devā upadevā vā bhṛśaṁ kiṁ siddha-sattamāḥ.
Revatīnandana: That "I am the source of impersonal Brahman, which is eternal, and the constitutional position of ultimate happiness." Does that mean that because everything in the spiritual sky is situated in the brahma-jyotir, that therefore it is the position of ultimate happiness?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Or is it because Kṛṣṇa is situated in the spiritual sky, therefore the spiritual sky is the position where there is ultimate happiness to be found?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: That is the understanding?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual sky you will find happiness, real happiness. In the material sky there is no happiness. How it can be happiness, because the four things are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9)? If you think it is happiness in spite of your death, then you are a fool. You do not want to be a dead man, but you are forced to accept death. You do not want to become old man, but you are forced to accept. And these things, if you accept—happiness—that is your foolishness.
That's all right. (Hindi) So the constables of Yamarāja, they are describing the bodily features of the Viṣṇudūta. You can have an idea of the Viṣṇuloka, or Vaikuṇṭhaloka. From this study, we have to understand that there is a spiritual sky, and that is far, far extensive than the material sky. You cannot even measure the sky covered by one universe, and there are innumerable universes. That is... All together, that is one-fourth of the whole sky. It is a rough estimate only, according to the Vedic scripture. And the three-fourths of the sky is spiritual sky. The population in the spiritual sky is far, far greater than the material sky. Only a few living entities who are rebelled... Just like the population in the prison house is insignificant compared to the whole population of the state, similarly, the living entities who are here in this material world, they are very insignificant. Including all the universes, all the planets together, they are an insignificant portion of the whole living entities. Ananta. Hy anantāya kalpate. The living entities, there is no counting, ananta, unlimited number of living entities. Therefore in the Vedas the living entities are plural, but God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).
"You are so brilliant that immediately on your appearance the darkness is dissipated. Immediately." They are so much, I mean to say, glowing, their body, in Vaikuṇṭha. Therefore in the Upaniṣad it is said that in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sun, moon. The planets and the bodily effulgence of the inhabitants, they are all glowing. So on account of everything glowing in the spiritual world, there is no necessity of sunshine or moonshine or electricity. They are self-effulgent.
The topmost planet in the spiritual sky is the, called Goloka. That is Kṛṣṇa's place. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni. And below this there are Vaikuṇṭha-dhāmas, unlimited number of Vaikuṇṭha-dhāmas. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa. Devī-dhāma, this is called Devī-dhāma, this material world. And Maheśa-dhāma, the Śivaloka. And devī-mahesa, hari-dhāmasu. Hari-dhāmasu means Vaikuṇṭha. So these are the different status of dhāma. We cannot calculate, estimate even this Devī-dhāma. This is called Devī-dhāma. This material world is called Devī-dhāma. It is controlled by Devī, Goddess Durgā.
Mālatī: And it's not... Is it eternal?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also. Any place in the spiritual sky, they are eternal. If that is your question... Now either Viṣṇu planet or Kṛṣṇa planet, they are all in the spiritual world. Or the impersonal Brahman, that is also in the spiritual world. So somebody wants to be merged into the Brahman effulgence, so that is also a spiritual world. Somebody wants to go into the Viṣṇu planet, that is also in the spiritual world. And somebody wants to go to this Kṛṣṇa planet, that is also in the spiritual sky. But there are differences even in the spiritual sky. The difference between spiritual sky and material sky is that everything in the spiritual sky, they are eternal, and everything in the material sky, they are temporary. That's all. Oh, so many? You, you.
No. Brahmajyoti means spiritual sky. This material sky means brahma-jyotir is covered by material cloud. Actually, everything is brahma-jyotir. Just like clear sky, but some portion of the sky is sometimes covered by cloud. Some portion only. The whole sky is never covered by sky. Similarly, some portion which is covered by this material atmosphere, that is called material world. That's all. Actually, the original sky is spiritual. Original sky is full of sunshine, but the covered portion means we cannot see the sunshine. Covered portion by cloud means we cannot see the sunshine. And similarly, this material sky means where we cannot see the spiritual effulgence. That is the difference. Otherwise, even this material sky is also a spiritual sky. The spiritual sky is the original status. Yes.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Govinda. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo. Pantha means road. If you walk over the path of Kṛṣṇa... Suppose Kṛṣṇa, there is Kṛṣṇaloka. Above this material universe, there is another spiritual sky, paravyoma. It is called paravyoma. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakta 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature. As this is material nature, there is spiritual nature. And in that spiritual nature there are innumerable spiritual planets. They are called Vaikuṇṭha planets. And the highest Vaikuṇṭha planet is called Kṛṣṇaloka, or Goloka Vṛndāvana. This Vṛndāvana is replica of that original Vṛndāvana. When Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet or within this universe, He comes in this Vṛndāvana. This is called Bhauma-Vṛndāvana. Of course, there is no difference between Bhauma-Vṛndāvana and Paravyoma-Vṛndāvana. So if we want to see Kṛṣṇa, then we must be freed from designations.
To go to that paraṁ padam, that is also not very easy. Kṛcchreṇa. Severe austerities and penances, one has to undergo to merge into the Brahman effulgence. Therefore you'll find, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, their stricture is very rigid. They must take bath thrice in, in a day and lie down underneath a tree and... Their renunciation is very rigid. Of course, those who are strictly following. In our Brahmā, Vaiṣṇava sannyāsa, there is little leniency. Because they live in Kṛṣṇa, so there is no need of very strict, rigid following. Although it is stated that they should live like this. But there is leniency. But Māyāvāda, they are very rigid in their principles of sannyāsa life. That is called āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Kṛcchreṇa, with great difficulty, they merge into the Brahman effulgence. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). They attain in the perfectional stage. Not perfectional. Paraṁ padam. In the spiritual realm. But patanty adhaḥ. Again falls down. Again falls down means because in the effulgence there is no varieties.
Our philosophy is go back to home, back to Godhead. Not in the spiritual sky. Paravyoma. Spiritual sky, there is chance of falling down. Why chance? It is sure. Those who are merging into the Brahman effulgence, the śāstra says that they again fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. They, jñānīs, they undergo severe austerities, penances to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But they fall down again. They fall down again because they have no shelter. Anādhṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. As, as in this sky, there are many planets. You can go with high speed to the Moon planet or Venus planet. But if you have no shelter to stay there, you come back again on this earthly planet, that is practically experienced, similarly you may merge into the Brahman effulgence. Just like our plane goes very high and, at a certain point, we see it is invisible, merged. Actually, it is not merged. Our eyes cannot see any more. They take it as merge.
Therefore Jīva Gosvāmī, this merging principle, he has explained: just like a green bird enters into a green tree, it, it appears that the bird is no more existing. To the imperfect eyes. But the bird is existing. We cannot see. Both the tree and the bird being green, we see it has merged. Because the spiritual sky and the spiritual living being, a small, it merges it does not merge. It is there. The individuality is there. And because this individuality, fragment of the Supreme Brahman, is eternal, is eternal, sanātana... It is not that spirit can be cut into pieces. That is not possible. So we are fragmental parts. That means eternally we are so, individual. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are one of the nityas. There are innumerable nityas and cetanaś, the living entities, part and parcel of the supreme living entity, Kṛṣṇa. They're all individual.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Bhaktijana: What's the relationship between Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā? Rādhā is the energy of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ravindra-svarūpa: If the brahma-jyotir is in the spiritual sky, how could we reach it in our mind? Is it in our mind also?
Prabhupāda: It is here also. Just like the sunshine, when it is covered by cloud, the sunshine is also there. Do you follow? You see that the sky is covered, but still you say, "It is day." Why? The sunshine is there. Similarly, brahma-jyotir is here also. Sarvaṁ khalu iti brahma: "Everything is Brahman." But it is covered by māyā. Therefore the full-fledged brahma-jyotir, you cannot see.
Ravindra-svarūpa: I thought it was a place that was far away.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... Just like above the cloud there is sunshine, fully. We have seen it in an aeroplane. This airlines, U.S. airlines, they say, "Friendly skies." So go to the friendly sky. Why do you remain here, nonsense sky, always covered with cloud? Go to the friendly sky. Just go above the cloud. The cloud is māyā. Go above the māyā. Then you see. You are seeing already, but it is not full-fledged experience. Everything we are seeing. We have experienced God's power, God's energy.
That brahma-jyotir, in that brahma-jyotir there are all these universes and Vaikuṇṭhas. All, they are resting in that brahma-jyotir. Just like in the sunshine so many planets are resting, similarly, in the brahma-jyotir, the personal shining of Lord Kṛṣṇa, in that shining which is called brahma-jyotir, all the universes and Vaikuṇṭha planets or universes, they are all resting. And the universes, the material universes are only one-fourths in quantity of the Vaikuṇṭha universes. All the universes taken together of this material world, it is only one-fourths in comparison to the other Vaikuṇṭha, or spiritual, universes. Vaikuṇṭha, brahmāṇḍa-gaṇa-śakti-kārya haya.
So every place belongs to God, but that Goloka Vṛndāvana, that place is particularly His abode. You have seen the picture. It is lotuslike. All planets are round, but that supreme planet is lotuslike. So that is in the spiritual sky, Goloka Vṛndāvana. And from that spiritual planet... Just like the, from the sun planet, the sunshine is emanating profusely. Just like this sun is, is compared with the eye, eyes of the Lord. Not... One eye. Another eye, the moon. It is figuratively stated. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited potency, sunlight, is coming from the sun. This material world, we can practically experience. But the sunlight is also emanating from that light which is emanating from that Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is the real light, which is called brahma-jyotir. So in that brahma-jyotir there are innumerable spiritual planets also. So in the spiritual sky, in that spiritual light, in that spiritual planets, there are innumerable liberated living entities, and each, each and every planet, there is expansion of Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Or that brahma-jyotir being manifested, there are innumerable planets and universes. There are. The same example: just like in the sun, sunshine, there are innumerable planets, so similarly, in the original shine, Kṛṣṇa shine—this is sunshine; the original shine is Kṛṣṇa shining—in that effulgence there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, spiritual planets. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). In the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find, all these planetary manifestations is situated in one fourth of His effulgence. Three fourths of the manifestation are in the spiritual sky. Tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam. Aśeṣa-bhūtam. It is so much extended that nobody can calculate how far. We cannot calculate even the sunshine, how far it is extended, and what to speak of that original effulgence. So our knowledge is always imperfect. We cannot study even millions and millionth part of the opulence of the Supreme Lord. So it is futile to deny God because we cannot calculate His potencies and expansion of potencies.
He was prince. He, he was in a very young time. He renounced the world and underwent severe penances. These are the symptoms by which we can understand that he's also śaktyāveśa avatāra. And the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. Anyone, not only Lord Buddha or others, but anyone, Lord, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, anyone who has got some extraordinary power, uncommon power, he's to be considered vibhu. Śaktyāveśa avatāra, there are two kinds, one directly empowered for particular mission, comes from the transcendental spiritual sky, and others, those who are in this material world, but they have got some specific power, uncommon power, not found in ordinary man. They are called vibhūti. This vibhūti (is) explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo-'ṁśa sambhavam. That is out of the opulence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Now Lord Caitanya describes about the kingdom of God, or the spiritual sky. He says... He has already explained to you about different kinds of expansions: prābhava, vaibhava, vilāsa, prakāśa. You may remember it. So there are innumerable expansions. Eko bahu śyāma: "The one Supreme Lord has become so many." The same example: the original candle, and from that candle, you can expand millions and millions candles. Similarly, the original Personality of Godhead is Śrī Kṛṣṇa, and He has expanded in so many ways. Now, Lord Caitanya says, all the expanded plenary manifestation of Kṛṣṇa has got a separate abode. Each and every one of them has got a separate abode. Sarva rūpera dhāma-paravyoma-dhāme. And where they are? That is in the paravyoma. Paravyoma means... Vyoma means sky, and para means transcendental, beyond this sky. This sky is called material sky, and beyond this there is paravyoma, spiritual sky. They have no information. The material scientists, they have no information. What information they have got? They cannot reach even the moon planet, what to speak of others. It is far, far away. Whatever... We can see the sky just like a pot, and that is the covering of this universe. And if you can penetrate that covering—that space is also many, many times longer than this outer space—then you'll find the spiritual sky. That is not possible for any material scientist to find out where the spiritual sky is. But you can understand from authoritative scriptures and from authorities like Lord Caitanya. He says that for each of the expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, there is a separate, I mean to say, planet into the, in the, I mean to say, spiritual sky. Pṛthak pṛthak vaikuṇṭha nāhika gaṇane. Pṛthak pṛthak. Each of them has got a separate Vaikuṇṭha planet, but how many planets are there nobody can count. Nāhika tara gaṇane.
Therefore there is no difference. The impersonalists, they cannot understand. Because everything is spiritual, they think that there is no variegatedness. But from this description of Caitanya-caritāmṛta and other scriptures like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, we can understand that the spiritual sky is exactly like this, but that is spiritual and this is material.
- ananta vaikuṇṭha eka eka deśe yāra
- sei paravyoma-dhāmera ke karu vistāra
Now, so far the spiritual sky is concerned, there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and nobody can measure how great those Vaikuṇṭha planets are. Therefore how great that space of spiritual sky is, nobody can calculate.
- ananta vaikuṇṭha-paravyoma yāra dala-śreṇī
- sarvopari kṛṣṇaloka 'karṇikāra' gaṇi
Now, all these planets... Just like in a stem there are so many branches and flowers, take it for granted it is something like that. And the topmost flower... Just like if you take a rose flower, there are so many leaves, and on the topmost there is the nice flower, so the topmost planet in the spiritual sky, that is called Kṛṣṇaloka. Karṇikāra. That is just like... The shape of the Kṛṣṇaloka is just like a lotus flower.
So in this Brahma-saṁhitā this verse appears. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43). The supreme planet in the spiritual sky is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, and all other planets, either in the spiritual world or in the material world... All the universes, they are all in just like strata. So goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43). Underneath that goloka-nāmni there are different planetary spheres or systems. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu. Devī-dhāma. This is called Devī-dhāma. This material world called Devī-dhāma. Above this there is Maheśa-dhāma, Śivaloka. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāma. Hari-dhāma means these Vaikuṇṭhas. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu. In all those systems of different kinds of planets, teṣu teṣu, te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitas ca yena (Bs. 5.43). Every planet, every spiritual atmosphere or material atmosphere, they have got some particular specially, every, every planet. So that is designed by Kṛṣṇa.
Now, there is material world, this material world is within the mahat-tattva compass. You have seen the picture, mahat-tattva compass. And that mahat-tattva is full with water. This is called Causal Ocean. And beyond that Causal Ocean, there is spiritual world. It is stated, tasyāḥ pāre paravyoma. Paravyoma means spiritual sky. And tripād-bhūtam. Tripād-bhūtaṁ sanātanam. Tripād-bhūtam means this material manifestation is only one-fourth energy of the Supreme Lord. This inferior energy is only one-fourth manifestation of the energy. The three-fourths manifestation of energy (is) in the spiritual world, and that is sanātanam. That is not subjected to creation and annihilation as this material world is subjected to that creation and annihilation. That is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. All Vedic literatures, they say the same thing. So we have to learn from authorized sources, and we can be informed perfectly about parāvara, para and avara. Avara means this inferior nature, and para means superior nature.
Now, after this spiritual world, this material world, that is full of innumerable universes. 'Devī-dhāma' nāma tāra, jīva yāra vāsī. Now, this material world is called Devī-dhāma. And jīva, jīva means conditioned soul. In this Devī-dhāma, the conditioned soul... There are two kinds of souls: conditioned and liberated, nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta. Just like we are, similarly, there are living entities in the spiritual sky also, but they are liberated. They never become conditioned. We are conditioned. We do not know from when, but we are conditioned. So jīva yāra vāsī. In this material world, we conditioned, we are residents. But in the spiritual world the residents are all liberated souls. Jagal-lakṣmī rakhi' rahe yāhāṅ māyā dāsī.
Now, these tina dhāma, three systems of existence, the material world and the marginal place, Maheśa-dhāma and the spiritual sky... So in the Bhagavad-gītā you have learned that yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That dhāma word is used there. Dhāma means place. Everything, Kṛṣṇa is proprietor of all places. But that does not mean that we should remain in this because this is also Kṛṣṇa's place. No. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Tenth Chapter, you will find that Kṛṣṇa says, dyūtaṁ chalayatām asmi: "Amongst the all kinds of cheating professions, I am gambling." Kṛṣṇa says that "Amongst all kinds of cheating business, I am gambling." Gambling... There is in gambling... It requires some expert brain, how to play gamble. So that expertness, that part of expert endeavor, is Kṛṣṇa.
So we have to associate with the Supreme. Kṛṣṇa is everything, but we have to associate with the Supreme, the best. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Goloka...
- ei tina dhāmera haya kṛṣṇa adhīśvara
- goloka-paravyoma-prakṛtira para
So that Goloka, that spiritual sky, is beyond this material manifestation.
- cic-chakti-vibhūti-dhāma-tripād-aiśvarya-nāma
- māyika vibhūti-eka-pāda abhidhāna
- tripād-vibhūter dhāmatvāt
- tripād-bhūtaṁ hi tat padam
- vibhūtir māyikī sarvā
- proktā pādātmikā yataḥ
Because Kṛṣṇa's energy is manifested here, māyikā... Māyikā means like illusory, imitation, perverted. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). Here the tree, the original tree, is presented also, but how it is presented? Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham: "The root is upward, and the branches are downward." I think you may remember.
The foolish persons, they are satisfied that "I am in the ocean now." That is the less intelligence. Go deep into the ocean and see what is going there. Similarly, those who are satisfied simply by merging into the spiritual existence, impersonalists, they are less intelligent. They have no intelligence to see that within the ocean there is individual expansion, individual life, and they are enjoying. Similarly, in the spiritual sky there is individuality. That individuality is there. And that individuality is reciprocated between Kṛṣṇa and the individual souls. They are called nitya-mukta, eternally liberated. And the other class, who are just like in the river fishes, they are called nitya-baddha. Their, I mean to say, limited sphere in the river or in the pond or in the well... The frog philosophy. They are expanding themselves, frogs: "How much great is Atlantic Ocean?" So they are called conditioned soul. Those who are in this material world, although they are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord energy, but because they are conditioned in this material contamination, they are called, I mean to say, conditioned, conditioned by the laws of nature.
That is called brahma-jyotir. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). And due to that incessant shining, all the shining which you are experiencing, even this lamp, even this electricity, fire, moonshine, sunshine, any shining, that is due to that brahma-jyotir. So yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). In that shining, this material world, the spiritual world, they are resting. So impersonalists, they are concerned with the shining, that's all. The difference between the personalists and impersonalists is that impersonalists, they take that shining as final. But the personalists, they take, "No. Kṛṣṇa is final." That is their difference of opinion. Otherwise, both of them in the spiritual realm. And so far Kṛṣṇa is the cause of brahma-jyotir, there are many evidences from Vedic literature. In Īśopaniṣad and other Upaniṣads, in Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of brahma-jyotir." You'll find in the Fourteenth Chapter, last verse, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ jyoti. Is there any Bhagavad-gītā? You find out Fourteenth Chapter, last verse.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
We get it, this information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Vivasvān manave prāha. So in every planet there is a predominating Deity. Just like in your this planet, if not Deity, somebody like president there is. Formerly, there was only one king on this planet, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. One king was. There was only one flag ruling over this whole planet. Similarly, in every planet there is a predominating Deity. So here it is said that the supreme predominating Deity is Kṛṣṇa, in the spiritual, in the topmost planet in the spiritual sky. This is material sky. In the material sky this is one of the universes. There are millions and trillions of universes. And within this universe there are millions and trillions of planets. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Jagad-aṇḍa. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe. Aṇḍa: just like an egg, this whole universe. So koṭi. Koṭi means hundreds and thousands. So in the brahma-jyotir there are hundreds and thousands of these universes, and within this universe there are hundreds and thousands and thousands, unlimited number of Vaikuṇṭhas, planets. Each Vaikuṇṭha planet is predominated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Except in the Kṛṣṇa planet, all other Vaikuṇṭha planets, they are predominated by Nārāyaṇa, and each Nārāyaṇa has got different names, some of which we know. Like just we utter Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Saṅkarṣaṇa... We have got twenty-four names only, but there are many others. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33).
Festival Lectures
There is planet beyond this material sky. There is another sky. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another sky, which is eternal. This sky is temporary. Just like your body, my body, or anything in this material world, they are temporary. They have got a date of birth, and they grow, they stay, they produce some by-products, then dwindle, and then vanishes. That is material nature. But there is another nature, which is called spiritual nature. Even when everything is annihilated, that nature stands. So that spiritual nature, or spiritual sky, is described in the Vedic literature, in the Upaniṣads, that there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine, there is no need of electricity. That is another sky. So our only business is to transfer ourself from this sky to that sky, that illuminating sky. That is the Vedic injunction. Tamasi mā jyotir gamaya: "Don't remain in this darkness, in this world of darkness. Come to the world of light." So this movement is very important movement. We are trying to educate people how to transfer one from this world of darkness to the world of light, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. So I am very much thankful to you that you have given me your time. So we have got our books; our devotees are preaching. Take advantage of this opportunity and make your life successful.
So durātmā means one who is under the influence of this material nature, far, far away from Kṛṣṇa. This material nature actually situated many, many, many, many thousands and millions of miles far away from Vaikuṇṭhaloka. This universe is unlimited according to our measurement. And beyond this universe there is the spiritual world, paravyoma. And far, far away, the topmost planet of the spiritual world is Kṛṣṇaloka. So those who are in this material world, actually they are durātmā in this sense that they are far, far away from the planet which is known as Kṛṣṇaloka, or Goloka Vṛndāvana. This Vṛndāvana is the replica of that original Vṛndāvana. Because when Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet He appears in this spot of land, Vṛndāvana. Just like when the governor goes somewhere, they have got a circuit house. It is something like that. And there is no difference between that original Vṛndāvana and this Vṛndāvana.
But within this universe, within this horizon, there are innumerable planets. Aśeṣa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). By the shining effulgence from the body of Kṛṣṇa... That is called brahma-jyotir. Within that brahma-jyotir or effulgence there are innumerable universes. Ananta-koṭi. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Koṭi means innumerable. One million, ten millions equal to one lakh. Such hundred lakhs makes a koṭi. So actually we see there are innumerable planets but beyond this creation, this is material creation, one-fourth manifestation, one-fourth manifestation of God's creation, this, this material world... This is also only one universe. There are innumerable universes clustered together and beyond this clustering of universes there is another sky which is called paravyoma or spiritual sky. If you want to go there, then you have to penetrate through the material coverings—earth, water, fire, water, fire, air, like that. Each layer so big. And the next layer is ten times more than the first layer. In this way there are seven layers. So penetrating through that seven layers you reach the spiritual sky. And after reaching the spiritual sky, there are so many Vaikuṇṭha planets, spiritual planets.
Now this universe, this material world is called Devī-dhāma. Devī-dhāma. It is under the control of the material energy. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir-eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). This energy is also personified called Durgādevī. So above this planetary system there is Maheśa-dhāma. Maheśa-dhāma. In the border between spiritual sky and material sky. Above that, there are Hari-dhāma, the Vaikuṇṭha planets where Nārāyaṇa, in various forms is predominating. And above all of them there is Goloka-dhāma or Kṛṣṇa's dhāma. So picture we have given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43), devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu, te te prabhava-nicayā vihitaś ca yena. Each planetary system has got specific atmosphere. Everything is specific. So that is done, that is created by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in this way, Kṛṣṇa is there in the topmost Goloka-dhāma. But still goloka-dhāmni nivasati, although He is living there, akhilātmā-bhūto, He is everywhere. He's everywhere. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Initiation Lectures
There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa name. Absolute. So if somebody thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore I can continue committing all kinds of sinful activities," that is the greatest... Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhir. Anyone who commits sinful activities... I have already explained the four kinds of sinful activities you should avoid. But if you think that you are chanting, therefore there will be no reaction of sinful activities, that is the greatest sin. Greatest offense. Never. Don't commit any sinful activities. And sāmyaṁ śubha-kriyā api pramādaḥ. This is another great offense. That don't accept this chanting as something auspicious activity. It is transcendental to auspicious and inauspicious activities. It is a vibration from the spiritual sky which will attract you gradually to the spiritual sky, beyond this material sky.
Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo (Bs. 5.34). The sky is so vast. This is material sky. We cannot even travel all over the sky. The modern scientist says that you go to the end of the sky cover, it will take forty thousands of years by the light year. This sky is only insignificant portion of the whole sky. You have no information of the whole sky. Nobody has information, the unlimited. The balance sky is spiritual sky. So if you have got any plane which is running on the speed of mind and air... You know the speed of mind, it can run millions of miles in a second. So, if you have got any airplane which runs on the speed of mind, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso, either on the plane of air speed or even the mind speed, and you go on with that mind speed, koṭi-śata-vatsara, not only forty thousand years, but millions and hundreds of millions of years, and not forty thousand years, koṭi-śata... Koṭi means ten million. Koṭi, hundred millions koṭi means. One lakh equal to..., ten lakh is equal to one million. Ten millions, koṭi, and multiply by hundreds. For that period, if you go on with the speed of mind, still you'll find, avacintya-tattva, inconceivable. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām. And that plane made of not ordinary man. Muni-puṅga, highest learned, I mean to say, scientist, philosopher. Still avacintya tattva.
Wedding Ceremonies
So the life is evolving. Now after evolutionary process from the lower animals, from the aquatics to plant life, vegetable life, then microbes, reptiles, birds, beasts, then we come to the human form of life, this civilized form of life. Now here it is just like crossing. Where we should go next life? Whether I shall promote myself to the higher planetary system or into the spiritual sky, Vaikuṇṭhaloka, or I shall go down again in the evolutionary process of lower animals? That is to be decided. So if we want to go to the higher planetary system, we can go there. If we want to stay here, we can do that. If we want to go down, that we can do. And if we want to go back to Godhead, that also we can do. So this facility is given in this human form of life. Now it is our choice, where shall I go? Shall I go down to hell, or shall I go up to heaven, or I shall go back to Godhead, back to home? Everything we can do. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is directly approaching the spiritual sky, back to home, back to Godhead.
General Lectures
Now, some of you members have asked me to explain the meaning of this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, this sound is transcendental sound, transcendental sound, incarnation, sound incarnation of the Absolute Truth. Just try to understand what is incarnation. Incarnation means... The Sanskrit word is avatāra, and that is translated into English as "incarnation." Of course, the root meaning of incarnation I cannot exactly explain to you, but the root meaning of the... (aside:) Somebody stop. Yes. The root meaning of avatāra is "which comes from the transcendental sky, the spiritual sky, to the material sky." That is called avatāra. Avataraṇa. Avataraṇa. Just like... Avataraṇa means "coming from up to down." That is called avatārana. And avatāra is understood that when God or His bona fide representative comes from that sky to this material plane, that is called avatāra.
Nothing is separated. Everything has emanated from the Absolute Truth. (aside:) Come on. Sit down. But just like... The example... Just like earth. Earth, then from earth, you have got wood, fuel. From fuel, when you get fire, first of all there is smoke. Then, after smoke, there is fire. And the fire, from fire, you can take work. Now, beginning from earth, from earth there is wood; from wood there is smoke; from smoke there is fire. There is a link between the fire and the earth. But the work of the fire, the benefit of the fire, can be had at the last stage, when there is real ignition of fire. Similarly, there is link. The whole material cosmic situation, manifestation, what we see, it is just like the smoke. The fire is behind it. That is spiritual sky. But still, in the smoke, you can feel some heat also. So similarly, this sound vibration of the spiritual world is here so that even in this material world, where there is a scarcity of that spiritual fire, we can appreciate, we can feel, the warmth of that fire.
Madhudviṣa: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...
Prabhupāda: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?
Madhudviṣa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?
This material sky you can see as far as your vision go, but beyond that material sky there is spiritual sky. This material sky is covered by material energy, mahat-tattva, and there are seven layers of covering of earth, water, fire, air. And beyond that covering there is an ocean, and beyond that ocean the spiritual sky begins. And in that spiritual sky, the highest planet is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. These things are described in the Vedic literature, in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Bhagavad-gītā is very well known book. There also it is stated,
- na yatra bhāsayate sūryo
- na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
- (BG 15.6)
In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that there is another spiritual sky, where there is no need of sunshine. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo. Sūrya means sun, and bhāsayate means distributing the sunshine. So there is no need of sunshine. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko. Śaśāṅka means moon.
That you know everyone. It is actually darkness. As soon as there is sun on the other side of this earth, it is darkness. That means by nature it is dark. Simply by sunshine, moonshine, and electricity we are keeping it light. Actually, it is darkness. And darkness means ignorance also. Just like at night people are more ignorant. We are ignorant, but at night we are more ignorant. So Vedic instruction is tamasi mā jyotir gama. The Vedas say, "Don't remain in this darkness. Just transfer yourself to the kingdom of light." And the Bhagavad-gītā also says that there is a special sky, or a spiritual sky, where there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonlight, there is no need of electricity, and—yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6)—and if anyone goes to that kingdom of light, he never comes back again to this kingdom of darkness.
The sunshine is distributed all over the universe, and the sun planet is situated in a localized place. And within the sun planet, there is the predominating deity who is called sun-god. But if you want to study all these things, first of all you come to the sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal. Similarly, there is a transcendental rays from the planet where Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there. Just a few minutes before I recited one verse from Bhagavad-gītā that na tad bhāsayate sūryo (BG 15.6). That means it is illuminating. There is no need of sunshine. Just like this planet is not illuminating; therefore we want light from the sun, from the moon, from electricity. But Bhagavad-gītā says that the planet of the Lord, there is no... Why planet? The sky. There is no need of sunshine. Every planet in the spiritual world is illuminating. So because every planet is illuminating, the whole spiritual sky is dazzling illumination. So one who approaches that dazzling illumination called brahma-jyotir, they are called impersonalists. Is it clear?
Similarly, there are other planets which is made of air, some planets made of water. These five elements, earth, water, air, ether, this is the, these are the ingredients of material world. So some planet is made of something, some planet is made of something. But this earth is made of earth only, and water. So in the sunshine you see, you go by airplane, go in the "friendly sky" above the... You see everything impersonal. Simply glaring sunshine, that's all. But that does not mean it is impersonal. There are many planets within the sunshine, millions of planets, but you cannot see. Similarly, persons who cannot see beyond the brahma-jyotir, the transcendental rays of the spiritual sky, they are impersonalists. They are impersonalists. But one who goes to the transcendental planets, Vaikuṇṭhas, Goloka Vṛndāvana, they see God is there person. As you are person, I am person, you'll find person.
So there, in the spiritual planet, all planets are illuminating. This is an example, a sample, the sun. Sun is the only planet within this universe which is illuminating. All other planets are reflection of the sun. The moon, the stars, they are simply glittering, reflected by the sun. They are dark, just like this planet is dark. So similarly, in the spiritual sky all the planets are illuminating. None of the planets are dark. Therefore the whole sky is illuminating. There is no darkness. Just get an idea. Of course, it is not possible to explain what is the spiritual world from the material world, but from the śāstra... Just like you read geography. If you want to go to India, you get some idea that "India is like this. The shape is like this, the climate is like this, the people are like that." So you simply get an idea. But actual experience you'll get when you go to India. Similarly, the, we have got all these explanation in the śāstras what is that spiritual world, but we cannot conceive at the present moment the spiritual world. But you can conceive it. When you are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll be able.
So all these rasas... Rasa means rasa. Rasa means humor. All these humors are present even in this material world in different way, as perverted reflection of the spiritual rasa. Nothing can be new here, but here it is a reflection only. Reality is there. So the five primary principles of loving affairs is there in the Vaikuṇṭha world. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness while we are in this material body, and after giving up this body, we enter into the spiritual realm for factually participating with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So if you want to enter into the rasa-līlā, if you desire like that, so you love Kṛṣṇa in that way, as the gopīs. Then you'll have the same perfection. There is no difficulty. It is not at all difficult. Simply you practice. But you have to forget the rasa-līlā of this material world. (chuckling) Otherwise there world then you play havoc. That risk is there. Yes. "Kṛṣṇa enjoyed with so many girls, so let me also become Kṛṣṇa and enjoy." That is finished everything. (laughter) (pause) (baby laughs) Oh, she is appreciating. (chuckles) Yes. Thank you. Come on. Reach. So we'll have kīrtana or this record or we'll close our meeting?
Ekāṁśena means a part, a fractional part. This material world is a fractional part of the whole creation. You see this universe, as far as you can see up to the sky. That is only one universe. And there are unlimited universes. They are clustered together. And that is called material world. And beyond that clusters of unlimited number of universes, there is another, spiritual sky. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmād tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ. Lord says that "Beyond this material world, there is another bhāva, nature." Just like this is material nature. He says, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ, bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). Anya means another. "There is another nature, which is sanātana." Sanātana means eternal. There is no history of its beginning, or there is no end—that is called sanātana, eternal. Eternal means which has no end, no beginning. Nobody knows where it has begun and where it has ended.
They are called demigods. But the final stage is to get a body which is called spiritual body in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. That is the perfection of... This evolutionary process is going on. As you have come up so much to this civilized form of life from animal status, similarly, you can still make progress. But in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that by progressing, you may go to the topmost planet of this universe. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl-lokāḥ (BG 8.16). That is called Brahmaloka or Satyaloka. But everywhere the four problems of birth, death, old age, and disease are there. But if you come to the spiritual sky and the planets there, then there is no more death, birth, old age, and disease. Life eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful life. That should be attained, that should be endeavored in this human form of life, setting aside all others. That should be the business of human life.
Kṛṣṇa is not imperson. He is imperson also. He is present in three features: by His personal feature, by His impersonal features, and His localized feature. By His personal feature, He is always present in His abode known as Kṛṣṇaloka or Vaikuṇṭhaloka in the spiritual sky. And by His impersonal feature He is present as impersonal Brahman effulgence. You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā also, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of Brahman effulgence." Brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Similarly, in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated,
- yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa-koṭi-
- koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam
- tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.40)
Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, He has got rays from His body. Just like you see the sunshine. The sunshine is the rays of the body of the sun-god. That you are seeing every day. You can see only the sun globe. But if you have got power, as you are trying to go to the moon planet, similarly, if some day if you get such scientific power and you can go through the sun planet, then you can see there sun-god. It is not imagination; it is a fact. Just like in every planet there is a predominating man.
That is the whole arrangement everywhere. The instruction is that you should not kill. But if you violate, then according to law you are arrested. If you still violate, then you are punished in so many ways by force. As this is going on in our ordinary life, the same thing is going on by God's will also. The kingdom of God... Here is also kingdom of God, and there is another, spiritual sky. That is also kingdom of God.
So here all living entities, we are condemned. We are under force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We have disobeyed the laws of God; therefore we have been put into this material world to abide by the laws of God by force, by force. You have to. Nobody wants to die, but you have to die. You cannot avoid it. Nobody wants to be diseased. Oh, you have to become diseased. Nobody wants to be old. Oh, you have to become old. Force! This is going on. But the fools' paradise, we are thinking, "We are happy. We are making progress." What progress you have made? Have you surpassed the laws of birth, death, old age and disease? "No, sir." Then what progress you have made? So this is their progress. But if you want really relief from these four principles of material way of life, then you have to purify your existence. You purify yourself; then you will be allowed to enter into the purified spiritual sky, and you'll get a place in one of the planets there. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
The hint is given there that in the sky of freedom, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sunshine. That is the distinction. Try to understand. This is also confirmed in the Upaniṣads. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonshine, there is no need of electricity, because everything is shining there, all Brahman effulgence. And as we have got one huge planet here, the sun planet, which is efful..., effulgent, dazzling, bright, in the spiritual sky all the planets are like that. So therefore, there is no question of darkness. Darkness is here. So you try to understand that there is a spiritual sky. That is not like this sky where we experience darkness. Now we are experiencing at night... Night means we are experiencing darkness; therefore we require this electricity or moonlight or sunlight. But the Vedas say, tamasi mā: "Don't remain in this darkness." Jyotir gamaḥ: "Go, just try to reach that system, that planetary system, where everything is dazzling, bright." That is the human form of life. That is required, how to enter into that spiritual kingdom or spiritual sky. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
So this is tapasya. If you perform tapasya for transcendental understanding, then the result will be that your next life you will be promoted to the spiritual sky. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After leaving this body, one does not come again to this material existence, miserable existence. But unfortunately, we do not accept that we are living in miserable condition. That is called māyā; that is called ignorance. We are actually in a miserable condition. We are trying to adjust things. But that cannot be adjusted. We have to suffer. The only way is that you realize yourself, what you are, and act accordingly. So your position is you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. You just practice how to serve Kṛṣṇa; then your life will be successful. So that is our movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is training people how to become unalloyed servant of Kṛṣṇa. Śuddha-bhakta, unalloyed, without any adulteration.
No other desire. Not that "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa or acting devotional service I shall get this opportunity, this facility," material or spiritual. A real devotee, he does not aspire even for liberation. He doesn't want. He simply wants, "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, wherever I may be, it doesn't matter. Please keep me always engaged in Your consciousness." That's all. A devotee never aspires that he'll be elevated to the spiritual sky or Vaikuṇṭha or... Never mind. "For thousands and thousands of births I may rot into the hell, but simply I want my Lord, that wherever I may be situated, I may not forget You." Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Lord Caitanya teaches this. Janmani janmani. Where there is janmani janmani, that means that is not liberation. As soon as you're liberated, you are not supposed to take birth again. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, janmani janmani. He doesn't aspire about liberation. "Birth after birth, please keep Me engaged in Your devotional service." That is pure devotion. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167).
Similarly, thirty days, one month; twelve months, one year. Similarly, ten thousand years you get, life there. But there is death. Just like the small microbe; it has got life, say, for few minutes, and you have got life, say, for a hundred years. That does not mean that you are immortal and that the microbe is a mortal. Both of us. Similarly, there are, in other planets, the duration of life may be very, very, very long, but that does not mean that they will not die. The death is there. Death can be eradicated only when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka, or in the spiritual sky. Yad gatvā...
- na tatra bhāsayate sūryo
- na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
- (BG 15.6)
These descriptions are there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that in the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine. Bhāsayate sūr... Na yatra bhāsayate sūryaḥ. Sūrya means the sun. There is no need of sun. There is no need of moon. There is no need of electricity. These descriptions are there.
So Kṛṣṇa gives this knowledge, that paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo (BG 8.20). "Beyond this material world there is another spiritual sky." There are also innumerable planets. And that sky is far, far greater than this sky. It is one-fourth only. And the spiritual sky is three-fourths. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). This is only one-fourth, this material world. The other spiritual world is three-fourths. Suppose God's creation is one hundred. It is only twenty-five percent; seventy-five percent is there. Similarly, the living entities also, a very small fragmental portion of the living entities are here. And there, in the spiritual world, the major portion are there.
This material world is compared as a prison. So if you go to the prison house, it is not that the whole population of the country is within the prison house. No. A fragmental portion of the population, those who are criminals, they are in the prison house. Similarly, those who are criminals, those who have revolted against God, they are within this material world.
We have got our book, Easy Journey to Other Planets. So guru can help you to transmigrate from this planet directly to the spiritual sky, where there are innumerable spiritual planets. They are known as Vaikuṇṭhaloka. And the topmost planet in the spiritual sky, that is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa's planet. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are trying to give information how one can be transferred directly to the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet, Kṛṣṇaloka. That is our mission.
So what is the difference between this material world and the spiritual world? The difference is that in the material world you have to change your body, although you are eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are not destroyed after the annihilation of this body, material body, but you transmigrate to another body. And that body may be one of the 8,400,000's of forms. There are 8,400,000's of forms. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are 900,000 forms in the water, two millions forms of trees and plants, eleven hundred thousand forms of the insect, and then one million forms of the birds. And then three million forms of the beasts. And then we come to this human form of life. Now it is our choice, whether you are going to be transferred again through the cycle of this transmigration of the soul from the one body to another in the lower species of life, or you want to be transferred to the spiritual sky. And you can transfer yourself to the highest spiritual platform, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is your choice.
Some, some of them are, some of the devotees, spiritual master, they are thinking of becoming assistants to the gopīs, some of them are thinking to be assistants to the cowherds boy, some of them are thinking to be assistant to Mother Yaśodā or Nanda, and some of them are thinking to the servants of God. Or some of them are thinking how to become a flower, tree, a fruit tree or a calf or a cow in Vṛndāvana. There are five kinds of mellows: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya and mādhurya. The... Everything is there spiritual. That I shall describe next. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu. So in the spiritual sky, the land is spiritual, the tree is spiritual, the fruit is spiritual, the flower is spiritual, the water is spiritual, the servant is spiritual, the friend is spiritual, the Lord is spiritual and His associates are spiritual. Everything. Therefore oneness, Absolute Truth, everything absolute. Although there are varieties, these varieties, the spiritual varieties, are simply reflection in this material world. Just like there is a tree on the bank of the river. That is reflected in the water. But reflected how? The top has gone down.
Devotee (2): If one is fortunate enough to revive his natural position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling down again? Like, if an entity is fortunate enough to revive his natural constitutional position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling...
Prabhupāda: How your Nixon is dragged down? How your President Nixon is dragged down? He was in the exalted post, and why he was dragged down?
Devotee (3): They dragged him down.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forced to come down. Why?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He broke the rules.
Prabhupāda: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. If you are not perfect, then you will be dragged down. Or if you think imperfectly... The formula is that in the spiritual world everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord. There is no other conception as in this material world everyone is engaged to serve his senses—he likes something, and he is engaged for that purpose. That service is there, but it is service to himself, his senses. But in the spiritual world there is no such thing as giving service to the senses. Simply giving service to the Lord. That is spiritual world. So as soon as you think that "Why shall I give service to Kṛṣṇa? Why not become independent?" you fall down immediately. So there is potency of thinking like that.
Philosophy Discussions
Kīrtanānanda: Then in function there is no difference between a tape recorder here used in the service of Kṛṣṇa and one existing in the spiritual sky.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prachurja(?). Just like Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who is engaged in devotional service, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, he is Brahman. Kṛṣṇa says. Why? Because he is..., that material function has stopped. You are all..., brahma-bhūyāya kalpate because your material function, that illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling, these things are stopped now. It is working in a different way, therefore it is spiritual.
Devotee: There's one verse in the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that explains that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and Arjuna after Kṛṣṇa left the earth, returned to the spiritual sky in this same body. Does that indicate that their bodies were so spiritual from spiritual activities that they no longer were material bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is possible. Now, let us talk of this philosopher. If you bring so many questions then we cannot do it.
Śyāmasundara: When we were discussing Plato, Plato has this idea also that the ideal precedes the physical representation and you said yes, that the ideal was in spiritual realm, it exists in the spiritual realm. Because of that we are able to conceptualize some idea.
Prabhupāda: Not that that idea is like this. Just like we have found that in the spiritual world and this is perverted reflection so in the śāstra we hear, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, the houses are made of touchstone. So we have never seen touchstone, neither you have seen a house made of touchstone. We have seen house made of bricks or wood. So this is, this may be an idea but that idea comes by hearing from authority. Not that we manufacture that spiritual world must be made up. Like this.
Devotee: (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. That is the general law. But if he likes, he can come back. Because otherwise, what is the meaning of independence? Just like one should become fit in the prison house, naturally he should not go again. But (indistinct) running again kicking, that's all.
Līlāvatī: So those eternally liberated souls in the spiritual sky will never come here because they choose not to. It's not that... (indistinct) they never choose to come here.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They never choose. They are very experienced. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: Bergson says that this quality of the soul can only be perceived by man's intuition, not by his senses, but by his intuition.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. Soul cannot be experienced by senses, but we can understand when there is a dead man, we can perceive that there was soul, which is now absent; therefore the body is dead. This is called perception.
Śyāmasundara: He makes a few comments about religion. He says that "The religious experience is unique, and it enables the individual to realize that the world he perceives is part of a spiritual universe which alone gives the sensory world value, and that man's proper goal is to unite himself with that higher universe. That prayer or inner communion with the universal spirit or God is the means whereby spiritual energy flows in and produces effects, psychological or material, occurring in the phenomenal world. And that religious faith imparts a new zest to life, taking the form either of lyrical enchantment or of appeal to earnestness and heroism, and that religion contributes some assurance of safety and peace and teaches love in human relationships."
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Hayagrīva: James, after analyzing all of these religions, different religious experiences, he gives his own conclusions, and he concludes his book in this way. He gives five basic conclusions. The first-one—"That the visible world is part of a more spiritual universe from which it draws its chief significance." (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means it is existing in the spiritual effulgence of the Lord. Just like all the planets they are resting, living within the sunshine, but by geographical position, when it is back side, the sun is not in the front but in the back, then it becomes dark. Similarly, everything is existing in the spiritual effulgence, rays of the Lord, and when you forget, this is called material world. So the material world is in that piece of spiritual world, but forgetfulness of God is material. So when we..., our revival of consciousness, God consciousness, then there is no more material world. For such person who is advanced in spiritual consciousness or God consciousness, there is nothing material; everything is spiritual.
Śyāmasundara: What about activities in the spiritual sky, beyond...?
Prabhupāda: Activities of the spiritual sky, that is eternal. Everything is eternal there.
Śyāmasundara: But... Isn't there motion?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not motion? Because there is living entities. Living entities means life force. There must be motion.
Śyāmasundara: This is his idea: all of creation means motion. There is motion everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without motion, how there can be creation? This is called kṣobha. Nothing is created without motion.
Hayagrīva: ...quotations on Aristotle. Aristotle believes that God expresses Himself through matter, although he also believes that God is transcendent and separate from the universe.
Prabhupāda: He believes some way and other believes some way, so which is..., which one is correct?
Hayagrīva: He does not follow Plato's dualism of the "here" and the "there." Plato made a sharp distinction between the material universe and the spiritual universe, but Aristotle believes there is no sharp distinction because God expresses Himself in matter. Since matter is simply one of God's energies, the finite reflects the infinite.
Prabhupāda: So what is the other energy? Does he know?
Hayagrīva: He doesn't concern himself with that. He says that by knowing something of the world about us, we can know something about God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Concerning the fall of the soul, Plotinus believes that the human soul never entirely leaves the spiritual realm.
Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life. That is going on. So in order to save ourselves from the repetition of changing body, if we want to remain in our original, eternal, spiritual form, we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then we are relieved from this rotten business of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
Hayagrīva: He says, "If the souls remain in the intelligible or spiritual realm with the Soul, or Supersoul, they are beyond harm and share in the soul's governance. They are like kings who live with the high King and govern with Him and like Him do not come down from the palace. But if they wish to be independent, if they are tired, you may say, of living with someone else..."
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, excuse me. The sannyāsī...
Hayagrīva: So when the individual soul decides to withdraw, he becomes fragmented, isolated and weak, when he decides to withdraw from the, what he calls the palace of the King.
Prabhupāda: Withdraw, withdraw from the material world?
Hayagrīva: When he decides to withdraw from the spiritual realm, from the governance of the high King.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual wrong?
Hayagrīva: Spiritual realm, the spiritual kingdom.
Prabhupāda: Kingdom. Yes. That is his falldown. When he decides to give up the spiritual life, he falls down in the material life, and that is the beginning of his material tribulations. And so long he will maintain a tinge of material happiness, the nature's life, that he has to accept, a type of material body, and there are varieties. So in all condition the spirit soul remains the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but according to the different body he gets different circumstances.
Hayagrīva: Well, not Origen. The position of Christ is that he is seated at the right hand of the father, that he is in the spiritual sky with the father.
Prabhupāda: No, here, when Christ was present, so so many persons saw him. So what is the position?
Hayagrīva: What was the position of those people? Well those who saw him were very special people, but they saw him in many different ways, just as they saw Kṛṣṇa in different ways when He was on this earth. Different people saw Him differently.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) This is, that, disturbing.
Hayagrīva: Hm? Is this clear?
Prabhupāda: No, I am talking to him. (pause) So different persons, so that is all right. According to the status of a person, he sees another person individually. That is all right. So Christ is in his full spiritual body, that is the idea?
Hayagrīva: That's the idea.
Hayagrīva: He conceived of the spiritual world as a place where the bodies are very beautiful, are very happy, they move with, with grace. The... God is the source of every satisfaction and is the consummation of all desires. The people in the spiritual sky never cease praising God, never tire of praising Him. There is no envy, and bliss is all-pervasive. Sin has no power of temptation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When he, we remain in contact with God, the sin cannot touch. That is the explanation given in the Bhagavad-gītā: daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). According to our desires we are associating with the different qualities of material nature, and we are getting different types of body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya. Nature is the agent of Kṛṣṇa, God, so as we desire, Kṛṣṇa gives us the facility by giving us a body which is a machine. Just like father and the son. The son insists, "Father, give me a cycle." So the affectionate father gives him a cycle. And he says, "Father, give me a motorcar." So affectionate father gives him a motorcar.
| Page Title: | Spiritual sky (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 05 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=140, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 140 |