So that is our philosophy. God is a person like you and me. As we are sitting together; you are seeing me, I am seeing you. Similarly, if you become elevated to the perfection of devotional service, you'll go to God and you'll see Him as you are seeing me, I am seeing you. You'll see Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand. Therefore there are so many religious systems which say, "God has no form. There is no God. Let us imagine." These are, this kind of religion is cheating religion. Therefore it is said here, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Cheating. Because there is no real information. Real information is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), the Supreme Lord has got His spiritual body, and He is... In the Christian Bible also, it is said, "Man is made after God." Is it not? So unless God has got form, two hands, two legs, like that, how man has got two hands, two legs? If we are imitation of God, then God must be person. This is natural conclusion.
Spiritual body (Lectures, SB & Others)
Expressions researched:
"Krsna's body and Krsna is nondifferent because it is completely spiritual"
|"body are complete spiritual"
|"body becomes spiritual"
|"body can be spiritualized"
|"body have become spiritualized"
|"body is also spiritual"
|"body is completely spiritual"
|"body is eternally in spiritual"
|"body is made of spiritual"
|"body is spiritual"
|"body is spiritualized"
|"body is transcendental, spiritual"
|"body of spiritual energy"
|"body spiritualized"
|"body that is spiritual"
|"body will be spiritualized"
|"body's spiritual"
|"body, we have to spiritualize"
|"spiritual blissful body"
|"spiritual bodies"
|"spiritual body"
|"spiritual body"
|"spiritual form within this body"
|"spiritual head, body"
|"spiritual spark has got body"
|"spiritual transcendental body"
|"spiritualize this body"
|"spiritualized body"
|"spiritualizing the present body"
|"bodies were so spiritual"
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So impersonal concept of God is imperfect conception of God. That is not perfect. They are puzzled because Kṛṣṇa, God, is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). They cannot imagine that a form of sac-cid-ānanda can be possible. That is their lack of knowledge. But we learn from Vedic literature that God has got form, complete form, like us. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you see, He has got also two hands, He is also playing flute, with consort, Rādhārāṇī. He has also got two hands, nice face, nice head. Everything is there. Only the ingredients are different. These ingredients, at the present moment... I have also got form, spiritual form. You have also spiritual form. Now that spiritual form is covered by material dress. Just like my body is covered by this shirt. You cannot see the actual body. Similarly, the spiritual body is now covered by this material body; therefore we cannot see. Besides that, our present eyes, that is also material. So with material eyes, we cannot see God. But God has got form. That's a fact. Now we are unable to see. Therefore the process is that we have to purify our eyes, our legs, our hands, and everything, so that we may be able to serve God.
Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is perfection, if you, if after giving up this body, no more accepting material body. You go back to home, back to God, in your spiritual body. You have got your spiritual body. That is within this body. Just like within this garment or within your coat, your real body is within the coat, so this body is just like coat, and the subtle body is just like shirt. And as a gentleman is within the coat and shirt, real body, similarly, the spiritual body is within this material gross body and subtle body. If you can get out of this material gross and subtle body, you realize, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam... (BG 15.6). Everything is there.
Nirmalam means mukti. Mala means dirty things. So long we are enwrapped with the dirty things, there is no bhakti. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When this nirmala, when dirty things are washed away, you remain in pure spiritual life or spiritual body, then the indriyas, the senses... You have got senses. In the spiritual life you will also... Spiritual life does not mean without senses. Otherwise, why it is said hṛṣīkeṇa? Hṛṣīka means indriya, senses. The senses are purified, not the senses are gone. Just like if you have got cataract, if it is operated, the cataract is taken away, not the eye is taken away. Eyes must remain there. Then what is the use of treatment? Similarly, our senses, at the present moment they are contaminated. You have to make it purified. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And when it is purified, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate, with that purified senses, when you serve Kṛṣṇa, that is called bhakti.
So death means this gross body, this overcoat is left, and I am carried away by the subtle body, and I enter into another overcoat, or gross body. So practically this is called death. Because we have no vision of the subtle body, how the soul is being transferred or transmigrating from one gross body to another gross body, keeping the subtle body intact. And the subtle body is given up when one is liberated. And at that time he goes, when he is liberated, freed from this subtle body also, at that time he is promoted to the spiritual kingdom in spiritual body. Therefore while living in this gross body, we have to educate our subtle body in such a way that it becomes spiritualized completely.
I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. In this way, if you educate or transfer the activities of the subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego, then, at the time of death, you give up this subtle body, material subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego, and by your spiritual body you go back to home, back to Godhead. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Gross body, automatically we give up. Now, we should practice to give up the subtle body. To give up this subtle body, one has to develop love for God, prema. And the process is, how to give up the subtle body.
So for a devotee, there is no more karma, or there is no more material body. Kṛṣṇa also confirms in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, a devotee, he does not get anymore birth in this material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). In his spiritual body, he comes back home, back to Godhead. So the same thing is expressed here: kṣīyante ca asya karmāṇi dṛṣṭa ātmani īśvare. He sees, ātmani dṛṣṭa, he realized his relationship with God, īśvare. He realized that "I am eternal servant of God, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). He realizes it. And because he realizes it, he engages himself in that way. That is the perfection of life.
Material knowledge, advancement of material knowledge, means more and more bondage. And advancement of spiritual knowledge means more and more liberation. But our problem is how to liberate ourselves from this material bondage. We are bound up. Just like I am a spirit soul, you are spirit soul, but we are put into this material bondage. Because we are in material bondage, therefore we have no freedom. People do not understand this. Just like spirit soul is described as sarva-ga. Sarva-ga means the spirit soul can go anywhere he likes. But due to this material bondage, because we have this material body, we are checked. Even we cannot go to the other planet. But we have got instances... Just like Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni is traveling all over the universes, not only within the material world, but in the spiritual world, because he has got spiritual body. There is no material bondage.
In the Bhagavad-gītā there is another instance. When Arjuna asked Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Kṛṣṇa said that, "First of all, I narrated this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." So, in order to clear this matter, Arjuna inquired from Him: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, we are born very recently. How is that You narrated this yoga system to the sun-god?" Arjuna, of course, knew everything, but in order to clear our doubts, he raised this question. And Kṛṣṇa answered that "You were also present at that time, but you have forgotten. I have not forgotten." So this is another proof that Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's body does not change. Kṛṣṇa, when He comes, when He appears, He comes in His original spiritual body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has warned that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). The Māyāvādī philosophers who think that Kṛṣṇa has accepted a material body, they are described as mūḍhas. They have no sufficient knowledge
So one of the qualification of the spirit soul is sarva-ga. Sarva-ga means he can go anywhere and everywhere. But because we are conditional stage, we are trying so much to go to the moon planet, we cannot go. But Nārada, because he is free, he has got full spiritual body, he can go anywhere he likes.
Kṛṣṇa says that "A little flower or little water or a little leaf, whatever My devotee offers Me in love and devotion, I accept it." And tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam. "And because he has brought it with great devotion, therefore I eat." Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam aśnāmi. Aśnāmi means "I eat." Now you can say, "All right, I'll offer these fruits and flower to God, but it is the same. It is remaining. How He is eating?" But His eating is not like my eating, because He hasn't got a body like this. This body is material. If you bring me a plate of fruits, this body immediately swallows it. But He has got spiritual body. He eats... Simply as soon as He knows that you have offered it in devotion, He eats immediately.
Pūrṇam means full. If you take full from the full, still the balance is full. That is the spiritual calculation. Just like if you have got hundred dollars and I take hundred dollars from you. Still, you have got hundred dollars. This is beyond material conception. Here, one minus one equal to zero, and in the spiritual world, one minus one equal to one. Here one plus one equal to two. And in the spiritual world one plus one equal to one. So these things are very subtle. As we make progress in spiritual understanding... Just like how Kṛṣṇa can eat from such a distant place? No. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. He's within you. So His eating process is different, because His body is spiritual. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya (Īśo Invocation). He can take the whole thing; still, one minus one equal to one. Still, the... Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate.
Birth means material body. There is no birth of the soul. The soul transmigrates from one body to another. That is called birth. Otherwise there is not birth. Na jāyate na mriyate, the soul does not take birth nor dies. If there is no birth, then where is death? The body has got birth, therefore there is death. Anything which takes birth, it has got death. But soul is part and parcel of God, God is eternal, therefore soul is eternal. Therefore it is said we give up this gross body or subtle body but we do not die. Just like we change our dress—I give up this shirt or dress—but I do not die. Similarly, the soul is changing, accepting another material body. The result of devotional service is that you do not accept another material body, but you remain in your spiritual body. The soul is spirit, the soul has got spiritual body—hands, legs, mouth, everything—otherwise, how this dress is made? Dress is made according to the body. So unless you have got spiritual body, how we have got this material hand?
So by discharging devotional service, you don't create another body. That means you remain in your pure, spiritual body. Otherwise, karmaṇā: you have to create another body, either human body, cat's body, dog's body, or demigod's body, fish body, tree body, so many-8,400,000 kinds of body. So unless you take to devotional service, you will have to repeat this business of transmigrating from one body to another.
When some incarnation comes, He's expansion of the person, not that He accepts this material body. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ. The, all the descriptions of the incarnations have been given before this verse. So therefore, it is concluding that "All these incarnations, they are expansion of the spiritual body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Not that the Absolute Truth is imperson, and He, He's accepting a form with material body. No. That is not. That is not. Just like here, Deity. He is also expansion, arcā-vigraha. Arcā-avatāra. Don't think that it is made of stone or metal. It is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. You want to worship. Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself to come here to accept your service. Don't think it is made of stone. So ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).
We are preparing our body in our present life. Just like we have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our attempt is to prepare for having a spiritual body. That is the whole attempt. And those who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in material consciousness, they'll have also a body, but this material body means full of miseries. Any body you take, either you take the body of king or you take the body of a dog, the body is miserable. It does not mean that when there is disease, only the dog's body suffers, not the king's body. Everyone has to suffer.
our fertile brain, speculation: "Like this," "like that," "maybe," "perhaps..." Not this nonsense. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa. So simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā deham, that person, after leaving this body, mām eti, he goes to Kṛṣṇa. And who can go to Kṛṣṇa unless he has got a spiritual body, the same sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1)? Unless one has the same vigrahaḥ... Just like we can understand that when we take birth in a particular place, say in Greenland, which is always full with ice, or some other place. So you have got a particular type of body, you get.
Apparently, it appears that Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the young girls at dead of night. But it is not that Kṛṣṇa is contaminated. They become purified. On the... Actually, they are eternal associates of Kṛṣṇa, the gopīs. They are not ordinary women. There are all description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They were dancing in their spiritual body, not in the material body. They were dancing in their spiritual body. Their material body was lying down with their husband. These are, these descriptions are there in the Bhāgavatam. So gopīs' līlā is not material. So there was no question of contamination. But materially this kind of activities, to dance at dead of night with young girl, that is not permitted. With other's wife. You can dance with your own wife, but you cannot do that. That is sinful.
So many ways we can remember Kṛṣṇa always. That... (break) ...somebody is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is all right, but why the necessity of initiation? Initiation means the disciples agree to accept the instruction of the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa accepts the disciple immediately to give him a spiritual body. This is the process. Otherwise, there is no need of initiation. One is chanting, one can chant... (break) ...it is the factual connection. And this connection means he gets immediately a spiritual body. In this body, his spiritual... His material body is transformed into... (break) But if there is any reservation... (break) ...it will take time. (break) ...our spiritual body. (break) ...means existence.
Mām eti: "He comes to Me, back to home." And when you go there, then you must possess the same body as Kṛṣṇa has got. Kṛṣṇa has sac-cid-ānanda-vig... Just like if you want to enter into the sun planet. The sun planet is made of fiery elements. Everyone there, their body is made of fire. So if you want to enter into the sun planet, then you must also make your body made of fire. Just like this body is made of earth, so similarly, there are different types of bodies made of air, made of water, made of fire, these five elements, material. Kṣitir āpas tejo marud vyoma. So in different planets... So if you go back to home, back to Godhead, then you have to gain your original, spiritual body.
There is spiritual body. That we do not know. There is no education. We have got spiritual body. That spiritual body is covered by this material layer. Just like your body is covered by shirt and coat, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Everything explained. We are simply giving up. One dress is now old and rotten; we throw it away and accept another dress. Similarly, this body, when it is not workable—it is old enough; the physiological function is not going on nicely—then there is change of body. Arjuna was advised that "Why you are lamenting for your old grandfather? Better kill him. He will get a new body. He will get a new body." Of course, it was spoken jokingly because grandfather... So, but the fact is that.
We are thinking that we are enjoying this electric fan, but actually we are suffering; therefore the electric fan is required. So why this electric fan is required? Because the body is anartha; it has created the situation. The same electric fan will be a trouble, a misery in winter season. The same body, the same electric fan—sometimes it is pleasing, and sometimes it is not pleasing. Therefore the conclusion is this body is anartha, not required. But people do not know that without this material body we can exist. Actually we are existing in spiritual body, and this material body is a covering of the spiritual body. Just like your shirt and coat are covering of your real body, similarly, this material body is covering of the spiritual body. We have got our spiritual body. So when a person comes to the understanding that "This body is anartha, unnecessarily imposed upon me," that is called knowledge. That is called brahma-jñāna. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54).
So in order to educate people to this understanding... That is the basic principle of all Vedic knowledge, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, and I must find out the ultimate goal of the spiritual body or the spirit soul." So some of the transcendentalists, they think that if the spirit soul is merged into the Supreme Soul—that is called brahma-lina(?), to become one with Brahman—that is the solution of this anartha. Anartha means this body. And some of them, they think that with our spiritual body, spiritual vision, if we can observe continuously the Supreme Spirit, Paramātmā, then that is the solution of anartha. That is the yogi. Jñānī, yogi. And the karmīs, those who have no knowledge, ajānataḥ, fools, rascals... Ajānataḥ means one who does not know. That is the karmīs. Karmīs, they think that "If I can satisfy the senses of this body, that is perfection of life." So there are three kinds of philosophers to make the solution of this unwanted material body, anartha. But actual solution is to remain in your spiritual body and meet the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face and live with Him in eternal, blissful life of knowledge. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.
Pradyumna: "Nārāyaṇa is not an ordinary living being. He is the Personality of Godhead Himself, and He has all the potencies of all the senses in all parts of His transcendental body. An ordinary living being begets a child by the intercourse of sex, and he has no other means to beget a child other than the one designed for him."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally take birth from the vagina. But Nārāyaṇa is all-powerful. He begets a child from the navel. This is all-powerful, omnipotency. Why? Why it is so happened? That is Nārāyaṇa. Every part of the body has got every potency. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Aṅgāni, the different parts of the... That is spiritual body. The different parts of the body of Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa has got all the potencies. Just like I can see with my eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can eat also with His eyes. So the foolish rascal people will say that: "You are offering Kṛṣṇa foodstuff, but where He has eaten? It is lying there. He has not eaten." He does not know, the rascal, that Kṛṣṇa by seeing can eat also. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti. Just like the washerman who refused to supply cloth in Mathurā, Kṛṣṇa immediately cut his head with his hand. You know the story. So how it is possible to cut one's head with the hand? That is called omnipotency. Read little more.
Kṛṣṇa has completely spiritual body, but we have no eyes to see what is that spiritual body. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). We are accustomed to see this material, jaḍa, gross things. We can see stone, we can see metal, we can see wood. We can see all these material elements. But Kṛṣṇa is everything. Therefore to be visible to our imperfect eyes, Kṛṣṇa has appeared in the stone form, but Kṛṣṇa is not stone. It is not that we are worshiping stone; we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. But because we cannot see except stone, therefore Kṛṣṇa has kindly appeared in the form carved from the stone. This is the conclusion.
What is Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara. Yogeśvara means... Yoga, mystic power... There are so many yogis, they can exhibit yogic power—aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti-siddhi. So, so many—aṣṭa-siddhi-yoga—not these ordinary yogis, simply practicing some āsana, but real yoga means to get this perfection, aṇimā, aṇu, to become very, very... We are very small. So the yogic power... They can give up this material body, and in their spiritual body they can enter anywhere, through a hole. That is called aṇimā-siddhi.
So Kṛṣṇa comes... He does not come like us. We are under the control of the material nature, but Kṛṣṇa is not under the control of material nature. That is to be understood. Therefore here it is said that jahau sva-tanvā. Sva means "own," and tanvā, tanu, tanu means "this body." We have got distinction, "I am the soul, but my this body is material." This distinction we have got because we are conditioned soul. Actually, I am not this body. I am soul. But I have become conditioned by this material body. And in case of Kṛṣṇa, He is not conditioned by this material body. Therefore it is said, sva-tanvā: "by His own original, spiritual body." This is the distinction you must understand.
So once one becomes situated in hari-līlāmṛtaṁ vacaḥ, that means he has stopped his process of death. So this dying again of this body... Of course, this body is material. It must make a show that this material body... But he is a spiritual body. He is going back to home, back to Godhead. There is no doubt about it. Therefore Yamarāja's duty... Yamarāja is Vaiṣṇava. He wants to see that you do not die again. He wants to see that you continue your deathlessness. Now you are engaged in kṛṣṇa-kathāmṛtaṁ vacaḥ.
So the living entity is wandering in this way, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Just like we change our dress from one dress to another, similarly we are changing different positions by the influence of māyā. Māyā is forcing me. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). As soon as I am desiring something, immediately my body is formed. Immediately a particular type of body begins to form, and as soon as I am mature to change, my next body I get according to my desire. Therefore we should always desire Kṛṣṇa. Then from this life, the Kṛṣṇa-approaching body or the spiritual body will be formed. The more you become sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa, the more your body becomes Kṛṣṇized, electrified. Therefore advanced Kṛṣṇa conscious person is considered to have a spiritual body. The same example, as I have given several times: just like iron rod. You put into the fire, it becomes warmer, warmer. The more it is connected with fire, it becomes warm, warm, warm. And at last it becomes red hot, so that at that time, if that iron is touched to any other thing, it burns. It does not act as iron; it acts as fire. Similarly, by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, continuous chanting, you will make your body spiritualized. At that time, wherever you go, wherever you touch, he'll be spiritualized. Similarly, the iron... Without being spiritualized, without being red hot, if you touch, it will not act.
Superficially we see that the body of a devotee is also taken away. But this is not the real body. Real body is the spiritual body. So spiritual body... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "After giving up this body, he does not take birth. He comes to Me."
So he has... Now the body is given up. Then how he goes? He says, "He comes to Me." So who comes to Him? Materialistic person, the so-called scientist, philosopher, they know this body—the self. They do not know that the body is the cover of the self. This real self, the real person, goes to Kṛṣṇa to live forever. So those who are devotees, those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are giving up this infected body and they are getting their new... Not new. The old, original body, spiritual body. Therefore, as soon as you get the spiritual body, the sun has no power to take it away. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "The fire cannot burn it, the weapon cannot kill it, the water cannot moist it..." In so many way, indirect way, are described. The spirit cannot be destroyed by anything material. Matter... Just like this body is matter. This body can be cut into pieces, but the spirit soul cannot be. The body can be burnt into ashes, but the spirit soul cannot be.
Upon this mind, intelligence and ego, one develops a gross body of five elements: earth, water, air, fire. This is the two kinds of body, a condition. And when he's actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's transcendental to this gross and subtle body. He attains a spiritual body which is never to be finished, eternal, blissful life. So sometimes, when Kṛṣṇa, He's especially kind to a person who thinks that "By... I shall execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness; at the same time, I shall enjoy this material life," this is foolishness. This is foolishness. If you want Kṛṣṇa, go to home, back to home, back to Godhead, then you have to finish your material desires. Because Kṛṣṇa is so kind that even if you have a pinch of material desire to enjoy in this material world, He will give you a chance, "All right, you do it." That means we become entangled. Therefore, those who are executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should try to become free from all material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11).
Here the beauty is also false because it is material. A woman is very beautiful, but as soon as the spirit soul is gone, if somebody says that "You can take this woman at your house," nobody will like. Nobody will like, because the real thing is gone. It is false beauty. The same woman, beautiful, everyone is after this: "Oh, very nice woman." But as soon as the spirit soul is gone... Just like dolls. There are very, very beautiful women's dolls in the tailor's showroom, and nobody cares for it. Well, everyone knows this is false. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya said that "Why you are being attracted by this woman? It is simply lump of matter. It is a simply lump of matter." Everyone, it is in our experience that a lump of matter is standing, sometimes photograph of a nice woman, or the doll of a nice woman. Everyone knows that this is false. Nobody is attracted. So therefore there, there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual. The body is also spiritual. He is and everything... There is no distinction between body and soul. Everything is one. That we cannot experience now, but we have to get information from the authorized book. Therefore they are far far better. There is no question of comparison. Pramada uttamādyubhiḥ. Pramada. Woman's name is pramada, pramada because as soon as one woman comes before a man, he becomes agitated. Therefore woman's name is pramada. Pramada. Pramada means agitates. Kāminī. Agitates. So there the pramada uttamādyubiḥ. Uttama. Udgata-tama. Tama, this darkness, is not there. Savidyut. Savidyud abhrāvalibhir yathā nabhaḥ. When they fly in the sky it appears just like lightning in the clouds. These are the description of Vaikuṇṭha planet.
God is personally explaining what He is. If you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then, after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), no more birth and death. You get your spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), and happily live in the family of Kṛṣṇa. Because He is also providing you here, and there also, He'll provide you with very nice preparation. As we have learned from this, what is that, Nava Bhārata Times, how our people are eating preparations from milk very nicely. So back to home, back to Godhead, and eat, drink and be merry in Kṛṣṇa's company. That is our process.
So śāstra says, "This is not good." Here also, Devahūti says that bhūmann asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt. Asad-indriya-tarṣ... Actually, these senses are not real senses. It is covered. Just like my, this body, covered with this shirt, or this cloth. It is not my real body. Although you see the shirt has got a hand, that hand is not real hand. The real hand is within the shirt. Similarly, our real body is within this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehe. Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means the real body, or the spiritual body of the soul, is within this body.
Bhakti means that. Bhakti means that you are not required to destroy your senses, but you have to purify your senses. And when you purify your senses, then you can serve Kṛṣṇa. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam...nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), senses; hṛṣīkeṇa, by the senses; hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam, serve Hṛṣīkeśa, the master of the senses. Kṛṣṇa's senses... We are just like part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like this hand or this finger are part and parcel of my body, similarly we are also senses, part and parcel of the spiritual body of Kṛṣṇa. So when we purify ourself, then we act in our original, constitutional position. Just like the finger is meant for serving my body, similarly when, as soon as we are in the position of our original constitution, then we serve Kṛṣṇa.
Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). Anantam. You are after happiness, but you do not know how to enjoy happiness. That you do not know. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21). Atīndriya. Not these false senses. We want sense enjoyment, but not these covered senses. We are spiritual. We have got spiritual body. That body is now covered with this material garment; therefore it is covered. The senses are covered. With covered senses, you cannot enjoy actually. The senses must be open. That means you can enjoy life when your senses are open, not covered by this material body. That is recommended.
We do not know that our real business is not to accept another material body. That we do not know. We are so fool. We are working in such a way that we must have to accept another body. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). We are working, we are feeling that so many difficulties there on account of this body, but we are not working how to get rid of this body, how to become again free and remain in our spiritual body. This intelligence is not there.
So we also become like Kṛṣṇa. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, the inhabitants, they are also living entities. Just like in this, within this universe, this material universe, there are living entities—there are also living entities, but they are in spiritual body, the same form of body as Kṛṣṇa. You have read in the Sixth Canto of Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Ajāmila, the vaikuṇṭha-dūta came for Ajāmila to take Ajāmila. They are also four-handed, very beautiful. That is Vaikuṇṭhaloka. But in Kṛṣṇaloka they are two-handed. So in the spiritual world there are so many varieties—four-handed, two-handed living entity. They're all nitya-mukta. They're all everlastingly liberated. So we have been just like a prisoner is. Although he's a prisoner, he can be also good citizen. There is no hopelessness. Similarly, we are now prisoner in this material world, and we have got this material body. Therefore we are changing: sometimes young, sometimes old, sometimes these boys, some... But tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then, after leaving this body, you're not any more getting this material body. That is stated. tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Then what happens? Mām eti. He comes to back to home, back to Godhead. And as soon as you go, you get your original, spiritual body, same beautiful body as Kṛṣṇa has, as Nārāyaṇa has. This is the opportunity.
Just like if you have got good digestive power, you eat anything—it will be digested. You will not find any difficulty. Similarly, if you have got strong bhakti-yoga, then you are not any more in material body. You are free. You are in spiritual body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that māṁ ca yaḥ avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate. Avyabhicāreṇa means without any deviation. Śuddha-bhakti, pure devotional service. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). They... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam means any kind of material desire. The, this desire, that "I shall become one with the Supreme," that is also material desire. That is not spiritual desire. That is artificial.
Just like if you take one very nice digestive pill, so whatever you have eaten, even stone, it will be digested. It will be digested. Similarly, as soon as you take to bhakti immediately your gross and subtle body is digested. You will live in the spiritual body. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Brahma-bhūyāya means that spiritual body. We are already Brahman—ahaṁ brahmāsmi—but it is covered by the material body, the gross body, kṣitir āpaṁ tejo marud vyoma: fire, water, earth, air, like that, and mano buddhiḥ ahaṅkāra, the subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego. So we are covered by this subtle body and gross body. This is our impediment. But the... By karma-yoga you try to get out of this gross body. By jñāna-yoga you try to get out of this subtle body. But bhakti-yoga—you directly you cross over this subtle body and gross body. You are immediately situated in the spiritual body. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktena. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26).
So long you get this body, you must suffer. Either you get the king's body or the cobbler's body or ant's body or dog's body, to accept material body means suffering. There cannot be akuto-bhayam. Unless you enter in the spiritual world with your spiritual body, there is no question of akuto-bhayam. So that akuto-bhayam is possible when you are practiced to bhakti-yogam.
This jagat, this material world, is existing on the spiritual prakṛti. You can calculate what is your this body. This body is existing on the spiritual body. Just like your shirt. The shirt is existing on your actual hand. The shirt has got a hand because you have got hand. So matter is impersonal. But because the superior prakṛti, jīva, he is person, therefore the matter appears like a person. Because I have got hands and legs, therefore this cloth has got hands and legs. Otherwise the cloth has no hands and legs; it is impersonal. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. This body is just like dress. Just like your coat has got hand, your pant has got leg, but either the pant or coat has no leg, no hand.
In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Vīryatā we can understand as semina discharged from the genital. It is not like that. Vīryatā, that vīrya or that energy, can be emanated from any part of the body, of the transcendental spiritual body, everywhere. That is called omnipotency. So just like Lord Brahmā was born not from the womb of Lakṣmī Nārāyaṇa... Nārāyaṇa was lying down, and Lakṣmī was present. To beget Lord Brahmā, there was no necessity of taking the help of Lakṣmījī. He sprouted a lotus flower from His navel, and there was Brahmā. So everything is possible from every part of the body, transcendental body. That is spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), omnipotent.
So ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), by expanding His ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, transcendental bliss and spiritual, cinmaya, not material. And so unless we do not know the difference between the material and spiritual, we should not try to understand Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. If we try to understand Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potencies, then we will misunderstand that "Kṛṣṇa is also like us. He is enjoying amongst the young girls. Let us imitate it." That is falldown. Yes. That is called sahajiyā. But Kṛṣṇa's this enjoyment is not material. They are all spiritual. They are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that when the gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa, they came in their spiritual body. The material body was lying down with their husband. The husband could not know that "My wife has gone to Kṛṣṇa." These are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Material life is anxiety. Therefore in this material world we..., I may love somebody, but it is full with anxieties. "My lover may not cheat. She may not go away" or "He may not go away." Because we are not in the spiritual platform, asad-grahāt, we are simply trying to love the external feature which is asat, which will not exist. Just like if you try to love a doll made of earth, dirt, very nicely painted as they are exhibited in the window of the tailor's shop. Who is going to love that? Nobody is going to. Everyone knows that this is imitation. Similarly, this body is imitation. It is a layer on the spiritual body. The spiritual body, when gives up this body, it has no value. A dead body of a beautiful man or beautiful woman, nobody likes because the spiritual essence is gone. Therefore love is actually on the spiritual platform. Material love is simply superficial, and it will cheat you. We must know this. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5).
Original body is within this material body. That is spiritual body. Asmin dehe dehinaḥ. Dehino 'smin, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), asmin dehinaḥ. So the spiritual body is actually the body, and this material body is covering. It is explained in different way in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). This material body is just like dress. The dress... I am putting on the shirt, you are putting on the shirt and coat. That is not very important thing. The important thing is the body within the shirt. Similarly, this material body is simply outward covering of the spiritual body by physical atmosphere, but real body is within. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This external, physical body is called deha, and the owner of this deha is called dehī, "one who possesses this deha." That you have to und... This is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā.
So one should be inquisitive to know "How this physical body has come into existence, covering myself, the spiritual body?" Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So to understand this science, Kapiladeva is explaining the physical Sāṅkhya philosophy, how things are developing. To understand that... The same thing: to understand the simple thing, that "I am not this body. The body has developed from the soul." Therefore we challenge the material scientists. They say that the soul has developed from the body. No. Soul has not developed from the body, but the body has developed from the soul. Just the opposite.
So the best achievement of life is the how to stop this getting material body again. Spiritual body. That is happiness. Then you will get eternal happiness, blissful life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). That you go to the spiritual world. There is spiritual world, as this, here, is material world. You have got material body. So if you are fit for going to the spiritual world, then you get spiritual body, same way. And spiritual body means sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), spiritual body. Vigraha means body, and sac-cid-ānanda... Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda, blissful. That we want. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to try to understand Kṛṣṇa, very easy.
Every gopī is thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing with me." How it is possible? If you dance with imitation... There are many rascals. They imitate that, that "I am Kṛṣṇa, and I can dance also like that." No. It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). This manifestation, demonstration, is not of this material world. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa. When Kṛṣṇa was dancing, all the gopīs, they left their material body by the side of the husband, but they went to dance. That is spiritual body. That is not material body. So don't indulge in such a way, that "Kṛṣṇa's dancing and our dancing is the same." Then you will be mistaken. That will be offense.
Purifying existence means no more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). These are the information we get, that if we purify our existence, our existential position, then the result will be that... Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. The cats and dogs also will give up, and I'll also give up. That's a fact. But the cats and dogs, they'll get another material body, but if you purify your existential position, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), you'll not to have, accept any more material body. You shall stay in your spiritual body. And when you stay in your spiritual body you become equal with God—sac-cid-ānanda: eternal, ānanda, blissful, and full of knowledge. That is the human form of life..., er, aim of human mission. Don't miss this. There is ample information. The practice is very easy. Anyone can do it.
That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "These material elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, ego—these are eight separated energy of the Supreme Lord." And the Lord says, apareyam: "These elements are inferior energy." Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ: "Beyond this, you try to understand, there is another nature, prakṛti." What is that another nature? Jīva-bhūto mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat: (BG 7.5) "That is jīva-bhūtaḥ." So mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "These living entities," Kṛṣṇa said, "they are My part and parcel." So we are now covered with these material energies although I am spiritual energy. This is our position. So this human form of life is a chance to understand that "I am not this body; I am spiritual energy," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This chance is given to the human form of life, not to the cats and dogs.
When we get our spiritual body, that is called purified. So Ṛṣabhadeva says sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. As soon as you get your spiritual body, then there is unlimited happiness. We are, after all... In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that the living entity or God, both of them are for enjoying life, blissful life. Just like when you are diseased, you have got some fever. So, you cannot enjoy life. Similarly in this diseased condition of material existence we, actually, we cannot enjoy life. Therefore, if we purify our existential condition by tapasya, then we come into our spiritual existence and we can enjoy our life eternally. (break) ...therefore, that when we have got this human form of life, we shall not waste it simply for sense gratification like the dogs and hog. We should practice tapasya, restrain, and then we purify our existence and we are situated in a position wherein we can enjoy blissful life forever.
Everywhere there are living entities. So all these living entities throughout the whole universe, they are possessing body of the material elements. But God has no such body. His body is different, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So that sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, spiritual body, can be expanded, reduced. Aṇor aṇīyāh mahato mahīyān. He can expand this body, spiritual body, bigger than the biggest, and He can reduce the body smaller than the smallest. That is God's body. You cannot do that.
So simply for sense gratification, you are prepared to commit so many criminal activities, and you are passing on as civilization. Therefore it is said, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Āpṛṇoti. Na sādhu manye, Ṛṣabhadeva says: "O My dear boys, it is not very good." Na sādhu manye. Sādhu means honest work, nice sādhu means saintly person or good. It is not good. Why it is not good? I am enjoying, enjoying. Enjoying means palate, very nice. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). You do not know that you have got this material body. And what is this material body? Material body means full of miserable condition. That's all. Who has got a material body, they do not understand what is spiritual body. So suppose material or spiritual, anyone who has got this body, can anyone here say, "I have no trouble, I am free from all trouble"? Is there anyone? Is it possible to say? What do you think? Can anyone say that "Yes, I've got this body, but I have no miserable condition, I'm always very happy"? Is there anyone? That rascal civilization, they cannot understand.
So avadhūta. We have already understood, avadhūta: no conception, no bodily conception, completely. There is a song, deha-smṛti nāhi yāra, saṁsāra kāhāṅ tāra. If one is completely free from the bodily conception of life, as it is shown practically by Ṛṣabhadeva—people are spiting (spitting on him), calling him by ill names, and sometimes passing urine—he doesn't care. This is the example. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikhāya. By imitation, it is not possible. We'll learn more and more about His body, how it was completely spiritual. Na jāyate na mriyate va. In other place the spiritual body is nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. The... No weapon can cut it, no fire can burn it. These descriptions are there.
This is the difference between material body and spiritual body. It doesn't matter. The Māyāvādīs, they cannot think of, that material body can be so beautiful, neither they can think of, that the Supreme to possess a body... But He possesses body. The description of the body is there. But it is not like our body. Therefore nirākāra means His body, ākāra, or form, is not like ours. That is to be understood. He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body. He has got body, but not a body like ours. That is misunderstanding.
These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Somewhere He's engaged some way; in another place, in the..., Arjuna, Nārada saw that although He has expanded, but He is differently engaged. Another example is there. When Lord Brahmā stole away, moved all the cows, calves, cowherd boys, He immediately expanded Himself into so many cowherd boys, cows, calves. He's complete always. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). That is God. That is Kṛṣṇa, not that like ourself. He can expand Himself—ananta-rūpam. Still, He is there; the body is not finished. We cannot conceive. Suppose my body is cut into pieces and thrown. Then where is my body? This is material conception. But spiritually, if my body is cut into thousands of pieces, still I'll remain.
So we cannot understand what is a spiritual body at the present moment. We have to hear from the right source, Vedic knowledge. That is Vedic knowledge. Everything described about God, Kṛṣṇa, at the present moment is inconceivable. We cannot imagine. Long, long ago I was talking with one Ārya-samajī friend. So he did not believe that a lotus stem can grow on the navel of Viṣṇu and there is Brahmā born. Everyone says like that, "mythology." It is not mythology; it is fact. So I asked him that "Here we see one coconut tree, and about sixty feet above, there is coconut and there is water, there is pulp, and it is being carried from the ground. Where is the pipe? Where is the pump? How the water is there within the coconut? Can you explain?" So he could not explain. And I said that "Even in material things which is front of you, you cannot explain. How you will explain the spiritual position? How the lotus grown from the navel of...?" Therefore it should be accepted as inconceivable. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Don't try to argue; it is foolishness. It is inconceivable.
By the superior arrangement, according to my karma I get a body with varieties of kāma, krodha, moha, like that. Kāma, because somebody has got the body of a human being, his kāma, desires, are different from the hogs and pigs because he has got a different body. He has got also kāma, and the human body, he has human being, he has got also kāma. But one is desiring to have a very palatable dish, and the other is desiring stool. The different..., according to the bodies the desires are (indistinct)-less. So conclusion is that when you get your spiritual body then the desire will be different. And that is prema. Desires are going on. Now the desires are designated. Designated. Because one has got a particular type of body, his desires are different from another because another person, he has got a particular type of body. But in the spiritual world, because there is no material body, only desire is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān, in His any form, He is mukta-liṅga. As we have got liṅga, deha, liṅga, this material body, and we have got our spiritual body also... The spiritual body is covered by the material coating. This is not our actual body. But in the case of Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no such difference. Deha, dehī. As we have got difference... Dehino 'smin yathā deha. Deha and dehī. Dehī means the owner of the body. Just like I say, "It is my body." I don't say, "It is I body." Everyone has got this experience. Even a child, ask him, pointing out to the finger. He will say, "It is my finger." Nobody says, "I finger," because there is difference between the body and the spirit soul. This is to be understood.
Now, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul will change this body, as it has already changed from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood. That I already explained. So what type of body I am going to accept next life? I am not going to die. I am simply changing body. Just like we change dress. If one dress is torn or old, we change another dress. Exactly like that. This body we change when it is no more usable. We have got our spiritual body. And they say the spirit is formless. No. Now if this body is my dress, then how the body has got these hands and legs?
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a devotee fills his life with devotional service right from the time he is born, is that enough to attain the spiritual body? Will he necessarily be...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is liking to serve me, that is the action of the spiritual body.
Devotee (3): Even though he might be...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you actually always remain in spiritual understanding, that means to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then Kṛṣṇa says, if you have understood what is God, that makes you qualified to go back to home, back to Godhead. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo janati tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). If you know what is God factually, then that is your qualification to go back to home, back to Godhead. But if you do not know, then your spiritual life has not begun. You must know what is God. That is knowledge.
"If anyone understands about My appearance and disappearance and activities in truth, not superficially, in truth..." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means truth, not superficially, ephemerally. Actually. What he gains? He gains that tyaktvā deham, after giving up this body... Because we have to give up this body, every one of us. We are giving up body every moment. So the last phase of giving up this body is called death. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā deham... After giving up this body, punar janma naiti, he does not accept any more a material body. Why? Mām eti. Because he returns back to Kṛṣṇa. When you have to go to Kṛṣṇa, then you have to prepare your body, spiritual body. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If your keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then gradually you make, you prepare your next body, spiritual body, which carries you immediately to Kṛṣṇa-loka, and you become happy and live there perpetually, blissfully.
Guest (2): When the living entity comes to the material world, what is the state of the spiritual body? And then how does this spiritual body begin to develop?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual body is there already. You simply cover yourself with another material coating. Just like you are trying to go to the moon planet. Your body's there, but you coat your body just suitable to the moon planet. And that dress costs $40,000 or something like that. (laughter) So after spending $40,000 for each man and going for so many years, they have collected little dust. That is their success. So if you want to waste your money in that way, do that. (laughter) Yes?
Aghavān means one who is sinful. Every one of us sinful, more or less. That's all. Otherwise, unless you are sinful, you don't get this material body. As soon as we are free from sinful life, then we are liberated. We are transferred to the spiritual world, and we get spiritual body. The whole process is how to cleanse ourself from the contamination of our sinful life. That is material world. So here Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that na tathā hy aghavān rājan. "My dear King"—rājan, he's the king, rājan. Aghavān, "Those who are sinful...," rājan na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta. Pūyeta means becomes purified from contamination.
Bibhrat. Bibhrat kuṭumbam aśucir yātayām āsa dehinaḥ. Bibhrat, we have to maintain our body. This is called bibhrat. That is necessary. We have got this body in this material world. This is not spiritual world. In the spiritual world there is no necessity of maintaining the body. The body is spiritual. As we have got here in this material world, to maintain this body I require to eat, I require to sleep, I require to satisfy my sense, and I require to defend—the four necessities... Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. And spiritual body means these four kinds of bodily demands, nil, no more. That is spiritual life. That means no eating, no sleeping, no sex, and no defense. The six Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, they practiced it. (sic:) Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. They conquered over sleeping, eating, mating, and defending. Nidrā means sleeping, āhāra means eating, vihāra means sex. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. Conquered.
Material life means it is full of distress. Duḥkhālayam, Kṛṣṇa says. So, so long you prolong this material way of life, that is called struggle for existence. The struggle for existence, as I have repeated, this word is very common, but nobody knows what is that struggle for existence and what is the platform of becoming fittest. Nobody knows. It is we are preaching. If you remain in this material world, then struggle for existence will continue. And fittest means one who has come to the spiritual platform. He is fittest to survive. What is survival? Who is going to survive? Do you mean to say that by cultivating health culture, big, strong, and you will survive? Nobody will survive. So who will survive? Only Kṛṣṇa conscious. If he is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he will survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). The Kṛṣṇa conscious person who has studied Kṛṣṇa only (?) perfectly, then he is fit. This body is also... This body is not permanent, that's a fact. But tyaktvā dehaṁ, after giving up this body, no more material body—spiritual body. Sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha.
Material life means it is full of distress, duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says. So so long you'll prolong this material way of life, that is called struggle for existence. The "struggle for existence" and "survival of the fittest," this word is very common but nobody knows what is that struggle for existence and what is the platform of becoming fittest. Nobody knows. It is we are preaching that "If you remain in this material world, then struggle for existence will continue." And fittest means one who has come to the spiritual platform, he is fittest to survive. What is survival? Who is going to survive? Do you mean to say by cultivating health culture, very strong, you'll survive? Nobody will survive. So who will survive? Only Kṛṣṇa conscious. If he is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he will survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). The Kṛṣṇa conscious person who has studied Kṛṣṇa only, nothing more, perfectly, that is fit. This body also, this body is not permanent. That's a fact. But tyaktvā deham, after giving up this body no more material body; spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Mālatī: Is it true he has the same body in the spiritual world and when he comes into the material world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Nārada's facility. He has got the benediction that he can travel anywhere, without any restriction. Even some of the yogis... Durvāsā Muni, he also went to the spiritual world, saw Lord Viṣṇu. And Arjuna also went to the spiritual world with Kṛṣṇa. So, not that this material body cannot be transformed into spiritual body by the supreme will of the Lord. Anything can be changed. We think that this is stereotyped; it cannot be transformed. No. That's not the fact. By the supreme will, anything can be changed into anything.
Revatīnandana: In the picture in the revealed book, Nāradajī is asking questions of Lord Brahmā. I was thinking that Nārada has actually an all-spiritual body, and Brahmā has a material form, material body. And yet Nārada appears to Brahmājī to ask questions from him as spiritual master. How is that?
Prabhupāda: Brahmājī also enters the spiritual kingdom at the time of annihilation with his persons.
Revatīnandana: Does he undergo a change of body at that time?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That automatically takes place. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu's son is Prahlāda. It doesn't matter. And spiritual body, material body, that can be changed. (break)
Revatīnandana: It will all be one thing(?), spiritual into material or material...
Prabhupāda: Material means when the consciousness is not Kṛṣṇa. That is material. The same example, that iron rod, if kept to the fire, gradually it becomes warm, warmer, and at last it becomes red. When it is red, it is no longer iron; it is fire. Similarly, by spiritual association, your body gradually becomes spiritualized. And at the perfection stage, there is no more material activities, simply the activities of the fire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
The whole body becomes supplemented with Brahman effulgence. It is not for everyone, and those who are very, very much spiritually advanced, their body becomes like that. Therefore a Vaiṣṇava ācārya's body is never burned. It is entombed. They worship the body. But that is spiritual body.
Devotee (2): It is never burned?
Prabhupāda: No.
The Vaikuṇṭha planet, because that is spiritual body, that is nityaḥ śāśvataḥ. Never it become... Just like Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa or Viṣṇu. They are not old. You will find all these pictures of Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa—all young men. So they are also... The inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha on the spiritual planet, they are also exactly of the same feature. You everything get exactly like God. This is Vaikuṇṭhaloka. The opulence is also like that. Sārṣṭi. There are five kinds of mukti, liberation. One is sāyujya, to merge into the existence. That is also mukti. But Vaiṣṇava does not like such kind of mukti.
So in the previous verse we have discussed, dehavān na hy akarma-kṛt. Anyone who has got this material body, he has to work. Everyone has to work. In the spiritual body also you have to work. In the material body also you have to work. Because the working principle is the soul—soul is living force—so he is busy. Living body means there is movement. There is work. He cannot sit idly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Not even for a moment one can be idle." That is the symptom of living being. So this working is going on according to the particular body. The dog is also running, and a man is also running. But a man thinks he is very much civilized because he is running on motorcar. Both of them are running, but a man has got a particular type of body by which he can prepare a vehicle or cycle, and he can run on. He is thinking that "I am running in greater speed than the dog; therefore I am civilized. This is the modern mentality. He does not know that what is the difference between running on fifty miles speed or five miles speed or five thousand miles speed or five millions miles of speed. The space is unlimited. Whatever speed you discover, it is still insufficient. Still insufficient.
Devotee (1): The Viṣṇudūtas, they had spiritual bodies, spiritual forms. Are they traveling through all the planets or only where there are devotees?
Prabhupāda: All the planets. Everywhere there are devotees. You are thinking that only in America there are devotees? (laughter)
Devotee (1): No, I'm speaking particularly of the four-armed form described as... Particularly of those.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Viṣṇudūtas are looking exactly like Viṣṇu.
Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) "After leaving this body they do not come again to take birth in this material world, but they come to Me." So those who are eligible to go back to Godhead, they are taken by Viṣṇudūta as guides. But durdarśa-liṅgāni, they are very rarely to be seen because directly going to Vaikuṇṭha after leaving this body, such persons are also very rare. Durdarśa-liṅgāni mahādbhutāni. Adbhuta, wonderful. Certainly they must be wonderful because they are spiritual body—four hands, with different weapons, just like Viṣṇu.
So the devotees are protected by the Viṣṇudūta always, constantly. They are invisibly wandering all over the universe. We may see or not see because we cannot see spiritual body with these material eyes. So even we do not see, the Viṣṇudūta is always protecting the devotees from the enemies.
The real problem is that there is death, there is birth, there is old age and there is disease. This is real problem. That problem is due to this material body. Therefore our real problem is that we have got this material body, but we have no sense that "Within this material body I am the spirit soul, living. So how to get out of this material body and again revive our spiritual body?" Spiritual body is already there. How to become free from the bondage of this material body and become free again in spiritual life, that is real problem of life. That they do not. Who knows? Bring any big, big leaders. Ask him that "Do you know what is the problem of life?" They do not know. Therefore it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31).
Guest: The body is Krish-na. Krish-na (indistinct), Christ. Body of Christ, the whole(holy?) spirit.
Prabhupāda: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7), paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi ātma-māyayā (BG 4.8). So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God's son comes or God's representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body.
Guest: Kṛṣṇa means Christ. He's the whole spirit. We are in the body of man. That is the body of God.
Prabhupāda: The body of man is not exactly body of God. There is no difference between the body and soul of God because it is spiritual. The soul is spiritual, the body is spiritual. Just like if you have got your golden body and golden soul, there is no difference between the soul and body. But in our case, we, as we are, we are spirit soul but this body is material, therefore I am different from this body. But when you are liberated, we get spiritual body, similar, at that time, as Kṛṣṇa has no difference between His body and soul, similarly, we also have no difference between body and soul. But at the present moment we have got difference with the body and soul. Therefore as soon as the soul goes away from this body, the body being matter, "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." It mixes with the matter. The soul takes another body. The whole problem is that we have to stop this repetition of migration from one material body to another material body. That is the highest perfection of life.
So Viṣṇu means all-pervading. But by our material conception we think that anything which is all-pervading, how it can be localized personally? That is our material conception. Just like I am sitting here, you are sitting here. You cannot be all-pervading. But your mind, because it is finer, the mind can be in so many places. Similarly, when you are still finer intelligence, you are still finer, a spirit soul, you can also become all-pervading. At the present moment we are hampered, conditioned, by the covering of this material body. Therefore our endeavor should be how we get out of this material body. That formula I've already explained that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply understand what is God, simply by this understanding, tyaktvā deham, after leaving this body, punar janma naiti, you don't get any more this material body. Simply try to understand what is Viṣṇu, then you become as good as that Viṣṇu. First of all you understand Viṣṇu, that He is all-pervading. So Viṣṇu, because He has got spiritual body, similarly, when you get your spiritual body How you can get? By understanding Viṣṇu.
Śāradīyā: When we serve Kṛṣṇa, even though we don't have a material body...?
Prabhupāda: No. Material body you have to finish here. You are finishing your material body so many times even during this bodily existence. So material body cannot go into spiritual world. You have your material body here. Similarly, as soon as you enter in the spiritual world you have spiritual body.
Śāradīyā: We have a spiritual body to serve Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: As good as Kṛṣṇa's body. Kṛṣṇa has got spiritual body, similarly you will have spiritual body. Is that clear?
Śāradīyā: I want to know, when we serve Kṛṣṇa, we have spiritual senses, then that satisfies our spiritual senses when we serve Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇaloka?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You dance with Kṛṣṇa, you eat with Kṛṣṇa, talk with Kṛṣṇa, you enjoy with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will kiss you also. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa is very kind to everyone, either you love Him as a lover, either you love Him as your son, either you love Him as your friend, or you love Him as your master.
The real problem is that how to stop to get another another body. Where is that education? They do not know what is material body or there is spiritual body. No knowledge. Big, big scientists, philosophers, but they have no knowledge even that "What I am." Everyone is thinking, "I am this body." And in the śāstra if anyone is thinking like that, he's no better than the dogs and cats because dog is also thinking like that.
By proper training by the expert spiritual master everyone can be raised to the brahminical platform and then Vaiṣṇava platform. śudhyanti. So how śudhyanti? Śudhyanti. So how śudhyanti? The general process is that unless one is born in brāhmaṇa family, he is not śuddha; he is impure by birth. That is fact. But the devotee can change. This is new birth, undoubtedly. Just like these, our European, American students. They are new birth. They have given up their old birth practices. So birth is changed. Punar janma. So that is possible only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one has to change his body without changing body... The body is changed, but we see that the same body..., but it is not the same body. It is cin-maya. The same example, that the iron rod put into the fire, it becomes red hot, so it is no longer iron; it is fire. Similarly, if we constantly keep ourself in touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the body is no longer material; it is spiritual. Therefore a spiritual body is not burned. They are kept, samādhi. Just like in Western countries they give samādhi to any, everyone, tomb, entombing. In India the tomb is offered to a very advanced spiritually person. You'll find many tombs in Vṛndāvana because their body is spiritual. No, no... This is the idea.
We are here under the pressure of karma-phala. By the result of our past lives' fruitive activities we have got this body, material body. That is also not our real body. That is the body of the prison house, just like when a criminal is put into the prison house, he is given a different dress. In hospital, in prison house, when a man is there, his original dress is taken away. It is kept. When he's released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Māyāvādī thinks. We are not zero. We have got our spiritual body but very, very small. Very small. The measurement is given: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, very minute.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Devotee: This, is there earth in their bodies or is their body made out of air?
Prabhupāda: No. These bodies are five elements. Earth, air, water, air, fire, ether. The subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. So in some planet the earthly portion may be major, the fire portion may be major. In some planet the ether portion may be major. But they're all material bodies. They're material bodies. They're not spiritual bodies. Spiritual body is within. Within the universe, anywhere you go, you get the material body, and according to the body, the duration of life is different. Just like a germ's body. That is also material body. And a human body. That is also material body. But a germ takes birth and dies within second or minute. We live for a hundred years. Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahmā has got also material body.
When our spiritual body becomes revealed, the material body, contamination, is washed off, nirmalam. At that time, the senses remain. Senses are there. It is simply covered by the material energies. The senses are there. The living entity is not nirākāra. Living entity has got hands, legs, everything, spiritual. Just like my, I have got my body, and this body's covered by this shirt, and because I have got this hand, the shirt has got hand. Otherwise wherefrom this hand comes? Unless the spirit soul has got hands and legs, how we have got these material hands and legs?
Ānanda sad-ujjvala-vigraha. It is not ordinary vigraha like this. They have got bitter experience of this vigraha, of this form, therefore they want to make God impersonal. Must be opposite. They have got this bitter knowledge that getting this body, we are suffering so much. Therefore, the God must be without body. Just opposite. This is also material thinking. Thinking in a negative way. But they have no knowledge, that if God has body, but that is completely spiritual. It has nothing to do with the material body. They cannot think of spiritual body. So the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu is teaching people how you can enjoy in the ocean of blissfulness.
Kṛṣṇa's another name is Uttama-śloka. Bhagavaty uttama-śloke bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭikī. Kṛṣṇa does not belong to this material world. Only the fools and rascals, they think of Kṛṣṇa having material body. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Kṛṣṇa is always in His spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Similarly, if we establish our bona fide relationship with the spiritual master, representative of Kṛṣṇa, immediately our connection with Kṛṣṇa becomes established.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
If we simply keep Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu within our heart, then it will be very easy to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, because if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. That is only. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means just try to understand Kṛṣṇa; then your life is successful. Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who understands Me, why I come here, what is My activities," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), "he becomes liberated. After giving up this body, he does not accept any material body. In his own spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
This form is temporary. Everyone knows this form will be finished. Antavanta ime dehā (BG 2.18), Kṛṣṇa says. This body is antavat. Antavat means it will be finished. It grew at a certain date, and it will increase, it will stay, then it will dwindle, then it will produce some by-products and then vanish. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes of the material body. Of the spiritual body there is no such change. That is the difference between spiritual body and material body. Therefore it is called sat. Sat means eternal; there is no change. Just like Kṛṣṇa. His body is sac-cid-ānanda; therefore He never grows old. You'll never find a picture of Kṛṣṇa that He has grown old. No. There is no change.
So these are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore natural conclusion, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, that His potencies, His body and His activities—everything spiritual. There is nothing material. Cid-vibhūti ācchādi' tāṅre kahe 'nirākāra.' And when there is some indication of impersonalism in the Vedas, it should be understood that His body is not of this material nature. If somebody says that "God does not belong to this matter," that is all right. That does not mean He's impersonal. He has got a spiritual body. Matter is denied.
Our glancing—we are seeing with these material eyes. As soon as these material eyes will be taken away, we cannot see. We are blind. But He... Here is the statement, īkṣāñcakre: "He saw." "He saw" means He saw with His spiritual eyes. Otherwise where is the material creation, that He can have material eyes? So these things are to be considered. Similarly, if He has got spiritual eyes, then He has got spiritual ear, He has got spiritual nose, He has got spiritual head, body, everything spiritual.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu concludes, therefore, that cid-ānanda-teṅho, tāṅra sthāna, parivāra. Therefore anything of Kṛṣṇa, or anything of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is spiritual. Spiritual. Deha. Deha means body. His body is spiritual, His abode is spiritual, and His paraphernalia, parivāra, His friends, His mother, His father, His beloved—everything spiritual. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). He's expansion of all spiritual.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu, while criticizing, I mean to say, Śaṅkarācārya, He is always taking care that "It was not the fault of Ācārya Śaṅkara, because he's Lord Śiva, and he cannot make any mistake, but he was ordered to do so for the time being. Actually, Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, His body is spiritual. He is person. The difference is that He's sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). And so far the living entities are concerned, they are His energies." Energies.
Punar janma means next birth. If you accept a material body, then there is question of next birth. But if you remain in your spiritual body, there is no question of next birth. That is spiritual salvation or liberation. If you remain in your spiritual body, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. Kṛṣṇa is complete spiritual body. The kingdom of God is also spiritual, and you go there, and you live there eternally. Tyaktvā deham. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Where going you do not come back again to this material world. That is the supreme abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So this expansion of energy, that is impersonal. But Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal. These foolish people, they do not understand Him. We see daily that the sunshine is so expansive, all over the universe, but it is..., the source of sunshine is the sun globe. That we see. So which is important? The sunshine or the sun globe? That we can see practically. And which is important, the sun globe or the sun-god? We can see every day. So similarly, God the person is important. God person is important. God... Just like the sun-god is important, and because he has his place, residential quarter, in the sun globe—the next important. And because his effulgence is distributed all over the universe, next important. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śakti. Actually, the illumination is coming from the sun-god. It is a material thing, and what to speak of spiritual body of Kṛṣṇa? That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Yasya prabhā.
So although innumerable energies are coming out of the supreme body of the Supreme Lord, still He is full. There is no loss of energy. Just like we can have some material example: the sun. We do not know for how many millions of years the sunshine and temperature is coming out of the sun planet, but still the sun is the same. There is no loss of temperature. So if in a material object this is possible, that in spite of distributing heat and light from the sun disk for millions and millions of years, the sun disk is still of the same temperature, there is no loss of temperature—this is a material thing—so why in the spiritual body of the Supreme there will be any loss? This is a material idea, that "Because God has become all-pervading, therefore He has lost Himself." Why He should lose His identity? This is confirmed in the Vedic literature: pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evavaśiṣyate. If you take from the... He is so full that if you take the whole thing from Him, still, He is whole. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate.
Sarva-ādi means the primal. Primal. And sarva-aṁśī. Sarva-aṁśī means He is the original thing, and everything is part. We are also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśa, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aṁśī. Aṁśī and aṁśa. Just like this hand, It is called part, and I am, as whole body, I am the whole. So we can understand part and whole. So therefore He is whole, and everything is His part. He is the aṁśī; He is the whole. Sarva-aṁśī. Kiśora-śekhara. This very word, kiśora-śekhara, "the supreme boy." The supreme boy. His feature is just like a fresh boy, but the supreme. Kiśora-śekhara cid-ānanda-deha, spiritual body. Just mark this description of Kṛṣṇa: cid-ānanda-deha. Cid-ānanda-deha means transcendental, spiritual body, not this body.
Cid-ānanda-deha, the transcendental eternal body. Cid-ānanda-deha and sarvāśraya. Sarvāśraya means He is the rest of everything. Now, you see before you that so many big, big planets, even the sun, it is floating in the air. Such a big body, lump body, which is some million times greater than this earth, we can see it is floating in the sky. So how it is floating? Here it is explained, sarvāśraya. It is floating on Kṛṣṇa's energy. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Sarvāśraya sarveśvara. Sarveśvara means the Supreme Lord. This is very nicely explained by Lord Caitanya. Sarva-ādi: "He is the origin of everything." Sarva-aṁśī: "He is the whole of all the parts. And He is just like a fresh boy. His body is transcendental, spiritual, full of bliss." Sarvāśraya: "And He is the rest of everything. And He is the Supreme Lord." This is the description of Kṛṣṇa.
So how He becomes parama, the Supreme? Because He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is spiritual, full of bliss and eternal. Therefore He is Supreme Lord. Anādi. So we have got experience that everything has got its cause. Suppose I am lord. But I have got some cause to become lord. Either my father was lord or I have accumulated some wealth, the government has recognized me as lord... Under certain condition, I have become lord.
So Lord Caitanya has explained the particular features of Kṛṣṇa, and He's giving evidence from Brahma-saṁhitā and other authentic Vedic literatures. So we have concluded that Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Origin. There are many demigods, gods, and living entities, energies, millions and millions. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). There is no estimate. But He is the origin of all. Just like in your New York City there are so many manifestation of electricity, but the origin is the powerhouse, similarly, He is the origin, powerhouse. Sarvādi, sarvāṁśī. He is the whole, and everything is part. And He is always just like a young boy of sixteen years old. And His body is transcendental, spiritual, full of bliss, eternity, and He is the shelter of everything. On Him everything is resting, and sarveśvara, He is the Supreme Lord.
In the spiritual planets, all of a sudden if you go, you cannot distinguish who is God and who is not. Yes. Just like here also, when Kṛṣṇa comes, He appears just like one of us. So man is made after God. So so far features are concerned, there is no difference between God and man. But the difference is only that God has no material body; we have got this material body subjected to the influence of time. When Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not become old. He remains just like a boy even when He is great grandfather because on His body there is no influence of time. Because His body is spiritual, therefore there is no influence of time.
There is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. It is admitted in the Bhagavad-gītā that oṁkāra 'smi. Akṣaram oṁkāro 'smi: "Of all the letters I am the oṁkāra." So Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare and oṁkāra, there is no difference, so far the transcendental sound vibration is concerned. But the objective is different. By oṁkāra one attains impersonal existence in the brahma-jyotir, and by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, one attains the spiritual body and he's situated in the spiritual planets. We have many times discussed that there are spiritual planets. That is the difference. So far quality is concerned, both of them are spiritual, oṁkāra or Hare Kṛṣṇa.
As a crude example in the material world. Similarly, in God's association there is no question of irreligiosity. If there is ecstasy, intense love for God, there is no question of contamination. So contamination is considered within the material world. In the spiritual world, there is no contamination. And actually, when the gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa, they approached there in their spiritual bodies, not with material bodies. Because it is stated in the Bhāgavata that when the gopīs left their house, their husbands saw that the wife is sleeping on the same bed. So Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say, danced with the gopīs, not with their, in their material bodies, but in their spiritual bodies. These are the descriptions are there. So Kṛṣṇa is always pure, always pure, perfect.
Now the disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī is admitting that "God is person, His body is spiritual, but we do not accept it." It is the greatest offense. It is the greatest offense. How it is offense? Suppose you are my friend, and if I say, "Oh, you have no eyes. You have no hand. You have no leg. You have no tongue..." "You have no leg" means you are lame man. "You have no eyes" means you are blind man. "You have no hand" means... That means I am calling you by all ill names. "You are blind. You are lame. You are nonsense. You are rascal."
Ṛṣabhādeva says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The only business is sense gratification. He says, na sādhu manye: "This is not very good." Sādhu means good. Just to distinguish between the body of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, and our body, here the body of Kṛṣṇa is said, ānanda-mātram. Ānanda-mātram, simply full of..., reservoir of all pleasures. So because we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, we have also ānanda-mātram, simply blissful body we have got. That is called spiritual body. But because we have become mad, we have identified that this material body as "I am." Therefore And material body means sense gratification. There is no other alternative. To enjoy this material body means to gratify the senses.
So this sense gratification means, as it is said by Ṛṣabhādeva, na sādhu manye. "I do not think it is very good." Why? Yata asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). If you act irresponsibly, without understanding yourself that you are not this material body, but you are spiritual body, then the result will be continuation of this material body one after another. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Therefore we are all abodha-jātaḥ, born ignorant. Because from the very beginning of our life we know that "I am this body." There is no education in the material world that we are not this body, we are soul. Although there are books of knowledge, just like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but nobody is interested. Therefore they are all mad.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
Aṅgāni, aṅgāni means the limbs of the body. Just like hands, legs, ear, nose, they're different parts of our body. The distinction between this material body and spiritual body is that just like this hand is made for particular purpose—you can pick up something, you can touch something, but you cannot taste something. If you want to taste something, then the hand will bring that food to your mouth and will touch your tongue. Then you can know that it is bitter or sweet. But simply by touching the hand it is not possible to understand what is the nature of that particular... Therefore God's body is described here that aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti. Each and every part of the body has got the capacity for other parts of the body. Just like if you want to eat, we have to taste it through the tongue, through the mouth, but Kṛṣṇa, or God, if He simply sees only, He can eat, simply by seeing. This is spiritual body.
These are possible when the body is made of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. This body is material. It is not ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. The material body is different from the spiritual body. That they do not know. So when the Vedas says nirākāra, "formless," that means He has no material form; He has got spiritual form. That spiritual form means full of bliss, ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Vedānta-sūtra. By nature ānandamaya. There is nothing nirānanda. That is spiritual world, always full of bliss, full of knowledge, and eternity. That is spiritual.
Another śloka is to explain: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32). The spiritual body is equally qualified for doing everything. Just like with our hand, we can touch only. We cannot do... Or we can pick up something. But by simply having hand, or with the hand, we cannot eat. For eating we shall have to use this mouth, we have to use the stomach. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa, about Him is described: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32). Each and every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of other limbs. He can eat by His eyes. He can hear from His eyes. And anything, all the parts of the limbs, because they are spiritual, you can use it for any purpose. This is not understandable in this material condition of life, but it is possible.
Another śloka I wish to explain: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32). The spiritual body is equally qualified for doing everything. Just like our hand, we can touch only. We cannot do... Or we can pick up something. But simply having hand... Or with the hand we cannot eat. For eating, we shall have to use this mouth, we have to use the stomach. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa, about Him it is described, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti: (Bs. 5.32) "Each and every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of other limbs." He can eat by His eyes; He can hear from His eyes. Anything. All the parts of the limbs, because they are spiritual, you can use it for any purpose. This is not understandable in this material condition of life, but it is possible.
Festival Lectures
So our movement is that "Why not stop this material, conditional life, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease?" This is intelligence. "Why should we remain in this material body and undergo repetition change of body? Let us have our original, spiritual body." That is wanted. That is intelligence. The human life is therefore meant, as it is stated in the Vedānta philosophy, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now this life is meant for enquiring about the Absolute Truth." So that is required. That is human intelligence. And if we spoil our life like the animals... They are also eating; we are also eating.
Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam, therefore one has to keep himself very purified; otherwise you cannot touch Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. It is fire, so you have to become fire. And how to become fire? Fire, you are also fire, but now you are covered fire, covered by this material body. Therefore you have to spiritualize this body by purificatory process. The same example, just like the iron rod, it is iron, but you put into the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, warmer, then red hot, then it is fire. Similarly, by this process, chanting process, by regulative process, you are becoming warmer, warmer, warmer, warmer. And when you fully become red hot warm, then your body is as good as Kṛṣṇa's.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
So our, this movement is to join Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma, punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Simply if you try to understand Kṛṣṇa... That is not very difficult. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is Kṛṣṇa. And further explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if you simply read our books, follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, it will be not very difficult. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). Things will reveal to you. So if you, in this life, simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. What is that success? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). After giving up this material body, no more acceptance of material body; we remain in our spiritual body. We have got our spiritual body. That is now covered by the material dress, subtle dress and gross dress. So if we give up the propensity for material sense gratification, that is mukti. So long we have a pinch, a drop of desire to enjoy material happiness, we'll have to accept a body, different types of body, out of the 8,400,000. But if we become satisfied with service of Kṛṣṇa, then we have no more interest with this material happiness. That is mukti.
Haṁsadūta: "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare is the energy of the Lord, God. God's energy is called Hare, and God is called Kṛṣṇa. So we are addressing both God and His energy because this..., there are varieties of energies of God. They have been summarized into three: the spiritual energy, the material energy and the marginal energy. The marginal energy..., the marginal energy is we, living beings, and the material energy, this material world. So similarly, there is another world, which is made of spiritual energy. So this Hara means the spiritual energy. Now we are in the material energy. We have got this material body. But if we can please the Supreme Lord and His spiritual energy, we shall get next a spiritual body, and that is eternal, blissful, full of knowledge.
If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, the result will be that after giving up this body, you will not accept any more material body. You will remain in your spiritual body and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your eternal life, blissful, full of knowledge. That is wanted. Otherwise, now you have got this very beautiful body, French girl, French boy, if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you lose the opportunity, then you may get, because you have got very good friend, dogs. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam (BG 8.6), so at the time of dying, you will think of dog and you will get a body of dog. This is a fact.
Initiation Lectures
Entangled means for one resultant action we are now, we have got this body. Again we are going to take another material body. So this is a chain of birth and death. But if you dedicate your life for the satisfaction of the Yajñeśvara, then no more you are going to accept any material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). After quitting this body, he does not accept any more material body. The spiritual body is already there within this material body. So those who are engaged in Yajñeśvara's service, they are giving up this material body and developing a spiritual body.
Therefore in the beginning, to increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa... Because my business is to increase my spontaneous attachment for God. That is the business of human life. This is a chance. Because in the human form of life you can do that. And as soon as you increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Successful means that you haven't got to accept any more this material body. You will get a spiritual body and go to Kṛṣṇa, or go to home, go back to Godhead. So if you increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa, the benefit is that you make a solution for all the problems of life. It is scientific.
General Lectures
Devotee: Swamijī, the other night you said that one who uses his body for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa, then his body becomes spiritual. How then is the body still subject to change?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual in the sense... Just like... This example also I have given several times. Just like you put an iron rod in the fire. When it becomes warmer, warmer, red hot, it is fire. It is no longer iron. Similarly, when you are completely absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and service, you are completely spiritual. Your material activities... Because your material activities have stopped, therefore your body is no longer material. Materialism means... Just try to understand. Material..., what is materialism and spiritualism. Materialism means sense gratification, and spiritualism means to love God. That's all. Personal sense gratification. Here the relationship is just like a girl or a boy. The so-called love is temporary. That's all. There is no love. As soon as there is some discrepancy of sense gratification, oh, there is separation. There is divorce. There is separation. Because the so-called love is based on sense gratification. That is materialism. And when there is no sense gratification, the satisfaction of the lover only, that is spiritualism. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when your business will be only to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then you must know that your senses and your body have become spiritualized. Actually, in higher platform, there is nothing material thing. Higher platform means when a person sees nothing but Kṛṣṇa as everything. Even himself, he's also Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: He wants to know what relation the body and the mind have to a higher level of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: As you can see, the difference of body and mind between animal and human being. Is there no difference? Do you think animal body and human body and human consciousness and animal consciousness is the same? So you have to elevate yourself. As you have elevated yourself from animal consciousness, animal body, to this beautiful human body, similarly, you have to still more elevate yourself to higher standard of life. They are called demigods. But the final stage is to get a body which is called spiritual body in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. That is the perfection of... This evolutionary process is going on. As you have come up so much to this civilized form of life from animal status, similarly, you can still make progress. But in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that by progressing, you may go to the topmost planet of this universe. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl-lokāḥ (BG 8.16). That is called Brahmaloka or Satyaloka. But everywhere the four problems of birth, death, old age, and disease are there. But if you come to the spiritual sky and the planets there, then there is no more death, birth, old age, and disease. Life eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful life. That should be attained, that should be endeavored in this human form of life, setting aside all others. That should be the business of human life.
Man (10): I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a spiritual body. When I look at you, it seems that you're...
Prabhupāda: A spiritual body is like... This is body, but this is material body. Just like here there is, there are different kinds of bodies, as I explained, 8,400,000's different forms of bodies. Even in human form of body there are so many difference of bodies. Similarly, there is a body which is called spiritual body, of which you have no experience at the present moment, but there is a spiritual body.
Man (10): And a person can take on such body if he's been purified after...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is already there. Spiritual body is already there. Just like from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that this body is dress. Just try to understand. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). The Bhagavad-gītā says that "As we give up old dress and accept another new dress, similarly, we give up one body and accept another body." Now, if this body is dress, so dress cannot stand without real body. Now, one dress is moving, coat-pant. That means that within that dress there is a man, not that automatically the coat-pant is moving. Similarly, this dress is standing so long the soul is there. As soon as the soul is gone, it is flat, no more moving. This is very easy to understand. It is dress, but dress is moving. Just like coat-pant moving, how long? The real man is there. If the man is not there, finished. The coat is coat; pant is pant. That's all. It is so simply given in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). It is dress. So dress means there is real body. Otherwise how dress can be made? Because you have got this hand, therefore your coat has got a hand. Because you have got leg, therefore your dress, pant, has got a leg. So if it is dress, then it is to be understood that within the dress the spiritual body is there. It is common affair. First of all try to understand this.
So our, at present moment, our business is simply to change bodies, change body. So we do not know what kind of body I am going to take next. There is a vast science about it, so one should know, one should prepare. Just like you are preparing yourself by education to be well situated in your future life, in this life; similarly, you should prepare yourself to get the best body in you next life. What is that next body? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- mām upetya kaunteya
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
"The highest perfection of life is to come back to Me, and you get this spiritual body, eternal body, blissful life, full of pleasure." Dance with Kṛṣṇa, mām upetya duḥkha, without any miserable condition. That is the highest... Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is the highest perfection of life.
All varieties of life there are within this universe. By Kṛṣṇa's creation, you will find, aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān: the bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. You will find. Just see in this New Vrindaban. There are big trees, also small, very insignificant, so small tree that you are trampling over it. So in the living condition there are so many varieties, 8,400,000's of species. But the problem is not to promote ourself from this small body to big body, from the ant's body to elephant's body. That is not our problem. Not to accept this material body—to have our spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Just like Kṛṣṇa has sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, Nārāyaṇa has got sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So that is our problem.
One cannot understand Kṛṣṇa on account of his being engrossed with these three material modes of nature. And Kṛṣṇa says, "One who understand Me rightly, he becomes immediately free." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Just like we are changing our dress or our different bodies every moment, so Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā deham. The last change, last change... Ordinarily, those who are not liberated, those who are conditioned still, they die. Die means they change this body and accept another material body. Another material body. But one who is liberated by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he also changes his body and he accepts immediately a spiritual body. And so long he lives, that is also spiritual body. That is spiritual body in the (this) sense because that body is engaged in spiritual activities only. There is no material activity; therefore that is spiritual. The same example: the iron rod, although it is rod, because it has become red hot it is no longer rod; it is fire. Similarly, this material body becomes spiritualized when one is completely Kṛṣṇa conscious, because he has no more activity of this material body. His actions are... The same example, try to follow. When it has become so hot, red hot, that it is no more acting as iron rod, it is acting as fire. Similarly, and when he changes this body also, he immediately... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Then he does not come in material body. Immediately, a spiritual body develops. As this material body has developed from the spirit soul, on the platform of spirit soul, similarly, what is the difficulty to understand a spiritual body can also grow? There is no difficulty. So our, this material body, everyone knows that it grows or it changes from one body to another because the spirit soul is there. Similarly, one who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, as it is said by Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā deham: as soon as this body is given up, immediately, another, spiritual body is offered.
That spiritual body... Sanātana Gosvāmī has said that those who are being liberated from this material world, they are offered a spiritual body where Kṛṣṇa-līlā is going on. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Vṛndāvana-līlā, or as Kṛṣṇa manifested His different pastimes when He was present, that is going on eternally. As soon as He leaves this universe, in another universe His līlā becomes manifest. Kṛṣṇa is born... Kṛṣṇa is born here at Janmāṣṭamī, and as soon as Kṛṣṇa is taken to Gokula by Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa is seen in another universe, born again. Just like our sun. As soon as it rises at six o'clock or, say, five o'clock... So as soon as here five o'clock finished, in another place five o'clock begins. But it is going on. Ananta-cakra. The five o'clock is permanent. Anywhere, there must be some five o'clock. Anywhere, there must be six o'clock. Anywhere, there must be seven o'clock. Just like the twenty-four hours is going on. You cannot say that the sun's rising at five o'clock, because it is finished within your view, it is finished. No. It is not like that. The five o'clock is permanent to the sun. If it is so possible to a material thing, why not Kṛṣṇa? Therefore it is called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means eternally Janmāṣṭamī is going on. Eternally everything is going on, eternally. So one who is liberated from this world and he is given the spiritual body, he's immediately transferred to the place where Kṛṣṇa's līlā is going on. Just like in Vṛndāvana, when Kṛṣṇa was present, all the Vṛndāvana-vāsīs, they were not ordinary men; they were liberated. They transferred to associate with Kṛṣṇa, practice. And after this complete practice, they were transferred to the Goloka Vṛndāvana. So therefore, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says about the boys, cowherd boys, playing with Kṛṣṇa, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "Oh, how much these boys have accumulated their pious activities! Now they are transferred here to play with Kṛṣṇa." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of this? Yantrārūḍhāni. Just like you are sitting on a carriage, and the driver is taking you anywhere he likes. You are just like that. There is no control how you are being taken. Yantrārūḍhāni. Yantra means just like carriage, a machine. You are sitting on a machine, and under the direction of the Lord, Īśvara... He is sitting in your heart. So māyā is driver, and Kṛṣṇa is dictating, "Drive this person in such and such body," and māyā is there, offering the body. Kṛṣṇa is seeing you, that you are doing, you require such and such body, and He's ordering māyā that "You give him such and such body." So māyā is offering you. You are simply under the control. You are simply thinking, "I shall do that, I shall do that," and everything is there by Kṛṣṇa's order. So you think of Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will give you another body, spiritual body.
Devotee (2): Every moment we are changing our body.
Prabhupāda: That is, the medical science says. Even medical science, they say the blood corpuscles are changing.
Devotee (2): But we don't feel it so much.
Prabhupāda: You don't feel so many things. That I have explained. That does not mean it is not taking place.
Devotee (2): No, I want to say, like at the point of death we are also changing to another body. Do we feel that then?
Prabhupāda: That I explained. You don't feel, even the change takes place. Yes.
Devotee (2): Even in death...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, you said that at the time of death, if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's given a spiritual body. Is the spiritual body... You said it has been created. Originally, we had a spiritual body, and then we fell under the...
Prabhupāda: I don't say created. It develops.
Devotee (3): Oh. It's the same one that was an eternal body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As the material body has developed for your material consciousness, similarly, spiritual body will develop for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Devotee (3): And it's the same spiritual body that we had before we came into the material world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are one ten-thousandth part of the point. How this big body has developed? It has developed materially. Similarly, it will develop spiritually. What is the difficulty to understand? Is there any difficulty still?
Devotee (3): No.
Take for example, just like Māyāvādī philosopher, they say brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But jagat, not mithyā, but temporary. And still, even if it is mithyā, false, it can be turned into truth by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is possible. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that it can transform the matter into spirit. How? Not transform, but the faith or feature is changed. Consciousness is changed. The same example as we have several times recited, that you take an iron rod, put into the fire. It becomes warm, warmer. But when it is red hot, it is no longer iron; it is fire. If you touch that rod, hot iron, in any place, it will burn. Similarly, Vaiṣṇava, by his spiritual advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, makes the whole body spiritualized. Just try to understand the same example. By developing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can make your body spiritualized, completely forgetting all material activities. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).
So these informations are there, and our propaganda is to train people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, how to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth so that next life, after giving up this body, you get your original, spiritual body, and you live forever with complete knowledge and blissful life. And to understand Kṛṣṇa, in this age it is very simple: this chanting process. This chanting process—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare—it is simple. Even a child can chant. We have got experience. When we hold meetings, unless one is very obstinate, he joins and chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and dances also with ecstasy.
Kṛṣṇa is called yoge... Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. Yogeśvara (BG 18.78). He is the master of all mystic powers, Yogeśvara. So He can expand Himself in many forms, multiforms. That is explained. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam. Ananta-rūpam. Ādyam, but He is the original person. Purāṇa-puruṣam, the oldest person, because He is the original. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca, but He is still young man. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. You will never see Kṛṣṇa as old man. When Kṛṣṇa was in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra... You have seen the picture. Kṛṣṇa is driving the chariot of Arjuna. At that time His age was not less than hundred years. He had great-grandchildren. But you have seen the picture. He was looking like a boy of sixteen to twenty years. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is described in the Vedic literatures as nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa's body... Therefore His body is spiritual body. The spiritual... When you get your spiritual body, you also get nava-yauvanam. Those who are associating with Kṛṣṇa in the Kṛṣṇa planet or those who are associating with Nārāyaṇa in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, they are also ever-young. Their bodily features are exactly like Nārāyaṇa. It is called sārūpya-mukti.
So we have got immense independence, but we are now conditioned by this body. Therefore in the human form of life it is an opportunity to get back our original independence. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Freedom. When we have got our spiritual body, without being covered by this material body... We have got our spiritual body within this material body. Very small. That is my real identification. Now I'm covered by two kinds of material bodies. One is called subtle body and the other is called gross body. The subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego, false ego, and the gross body is made of earth, water, fire, air and ether mixed together, this body. So two kinds of body we have got. And we are changing. Generally we can see the gross body; we cannot see the subtle body. Just like everyone knows... I know that you have got your mind. I know that you have got intelligence.
We have got daily experience. Similarly, death means this gross body we change. Just like you have got your shirt and coat. So you change the coat, but you keep your shirt. You do it, generally. Similarly, I keep my subtle body and I give up my gross body; that is called death. And I am carried by the subtle body in the womb of another mother by the laws of nature, and I develop another gross body, materials supplied by the mother. And when the body is prepared, I come out of the womb of mother and I work again with that subtle and gross body. And bhāgavata-dharma means that we have to transcend both the gross and subtle body; come to the spiritual body. It is very scientific. And as soon as we come to the spiritual body, mukta saṅga, being freed from the gross and subtle body, we come to our real body, spiritual body, then actually we feel happiness and independence.
So this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest benediction for the human society because it is trying to bring the human being to the platform of spiritual body—transcending the gross and subtle material body. That is the highest perfection. Human life is meant for coming to that platform, the spiritual platform, transcending the gross and material bodily concept of life. That is possible. It is made easy in this age. This age called Kali, it is not very good time. Simply disagreement, fighting, quarreling, misunderstanding. This age is full of that, all these happenings. Therefore to come to the spiritual platform is very difficult in this age. Formerly, it was not so difficult. People were very easily trained up by the Vedic process. But now the people are not interested. They're simply interested with the gross body or, a little more, who is a little advanced, the subtle body. But they have no information of the spiritual body. Although there is advancement of education, there is no education about the spiritual body. They're simply concerned with the gross material and subtle body. Therefore this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is very important movement. Those who have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they're very, very fortunate.
So (to) go to God or Kṛṣṇa means you will have to acquire your original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is already there, but we are now covered by this material body. So how we are eternal, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- avināśi tu tad viddhi
- yena sarvam idaṁ tatam
- vināśam avyayasyāsya
- na kaścit kartum arhati
The hint is given: "The something which is spread all over the body, that is eternal." And what is that something? That something is our consciousness.
After this body, I can get any other body. That is stated here: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another form of a body. That form of body may be any one of the 8,400,000 forms of body. Therefore, if we are actually intelligent, we should try for being awakened or placed in our original body, the spiritual body. That will stop this constant change of body.
So the simple process is, as we are preaching in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that if you try to understand only what is Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa or Christ, the same thing—then you get your original, spiritual body. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be awakened simply by chanting the mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, or the holy name of God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says if our body should meet death while performing devotional service, will we be protected in transmigrating?
Prabhupāda: There are two kinds of bodies: the gross body and the subtle body. The gross body is a material combination of earth, water, air, fire, ether, and the subtle body is combination of mind, intelligence and ego. So this gross body and subtle body, within that, there is the spirit soul. So that is eternal. And this gross body and subtle body is changing according to the change of the situation. So when you remain in your spiritual body, that is eternal. Therefore to keep in spiritual body is to accept devotional service. Then you are beyond this material gross body and subtle body. You remain in your spiritual body. And if you give up this body at the time of death, means giving up this body, then in spiritual body you go to back to home, back to Godhead. So in order to keep yourself in spiritual body you should always be engaged in devotional service, and that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
Then you become Brahman or spirit soul.
So our only request is that you, all of you, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't interpret in a different way. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you become free from this material bondage, no more accepting... Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body, that is certain. The cats and dogs will also give up their body, we'll have also give... But before giving up this body, if we simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then our life becomes successful. What is that success? That after giving up this body we are not going to accept anything, our material body. Then we stand in our original, spiritual body. The spiritual body is there within the body. That will be explained very nicely. So we... Our mission is to come to the platform of our spiritual body. It is very simple, simply by understanding the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made it still simplified. What is that? He advises, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra."
That is successful. If one can understand Kṛṣṇa, about His activities, why He comes, He explains, yadā yadā hi dharmasya (BG 4.7), (break) ...change this body. But we do not know what kind of body I am going to get. These information are there. But any kind of body you get, even in the higher planetary system as demigod, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16), that is not good. The best thing is you get a body, a spiritual body, like Kṛṣṇa, sat-cit-ānanda-vigraha. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... (BG 4.9). Then you haven't got to accept any more this material body. Then what happens to me? Mām eti, you come to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy with Him. That is success of life.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: The rascals and fools, when Kṛṣṇa appears in His own body, ātmamāyā, they think it is just like material body, but they do not know that to Kṛṣṇa there is no such distinction of material and spiritual. Even accepting that He had got a material body, there is no hampering—He has changed into spiritual body. Otherwise how is it possible, Kṛṣṇa, He has got material body, now He was seven-years' boy, Kṛṣṇa is lifting the whole Govardhana Hill? And as much as Kṛṣṇa desires, "Let this big planet sun float in the air," so is it difficult for Him to lift the whole hill? There is no difficulty at all. That is omnipotency. And those who cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11), deride Him, "He is a man, therefore these are all stories," they have no idea of Kṛṣṇa. But we don't take Him as ordinary human being. Therefore He can change anything into anything, matter into spirit, spirit into matter, as He likes. That is His omnipotency.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that man tends to create ideas about the universe which transcend the bounds of experience, and this is what he calls the third stage, or the transcendental dialectic. He says these ideas which transcend the bounds of experience are the realm of pure reason. He calls it pure reason, or transcendental reason. And these are not fictions, but these spring from the very nature of reason itself, these transcendental ideas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I already explained: transcendental. We are seeking eternity. I find myself as a soul; I am eternal; so I must seek an eternal world. This is not my place. I am eternal. The same example: just like fish taken from the water, he is not finding comfortable life. So when the fish is thrown in the water, then it is comfortable. Similarly, I am spirit soul. I am not feeling comfortable with this material body. Therefore the right conclusion is how to go to the spiritual world or attain a spiritual body. That information we are getting from Bhagavad-gītā, that one who understands Kṛṣṇa or develops his love for Kṛṣṇa, how to see Kṛṣṇa, then he gets a spiritual body to see Kṛṣṇa. Because if one is very much anxious, these thoughts will continue, and at the time of his death, ending this body, if he is filled up with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is immediately transferred. That is assured in the Bhagavad-gītā by Kṛṣṇa. So our business should be: Kṛṣṇa is eternal; Kṛṣṇa says, "I have spoken to sun-god, forty millions of years ago." Arjuna says, "How is that?" and He says that "That is the nature: I do not forget, you forget." So Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, because forgetfulness is due to change of body. As I do not remember what happened in my last life, that means I have to change my body. And Kṛṣṇa remembers; therefore He does not change His body. Is it not? I forget. Why do I forget? Because I change my body. But Kṛṣṇa does not. That means He does not change His body. That is eternal body. And śāstra also confirms, sat-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ. So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you get also a similar body like Kṛṣṇa. If you get a material body, why not a spiritual body? It requires simply a process, how to get a spiritual body. So these things they do not know.
Devotee: There's one verse in the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that explains that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and Arjuna after Kṛṣṇa left the earth, returned to the spiritual sky in this same body. Does that indicate that their bodies were so spiritual from spiritual activities that they no longer were material bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is possible. Now, let us talk of this philosopher. If you bring so many questions then we cannot do it.
Śyāmasundara: So if he says that the physical world...
Līlāvatī: Does that mean that the spiritual body changes, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Not spiritual body, material body. Spiritual body cannot be changed.
Śyāmasundara: No. We're not talking about bodies, we're talking about the life force.
Prabhupāda: Life force means that the spirit soul has got spiritual body. That I have explained several times. Just like you have got this body. When you cut your coat, it is according to the body. Because we have hands, legs, therefore it is to be understood that this dress is made according to that real body. So originally the spirit soul has got body, so these physical elements are just like a covering, exactly to the size of the hands, legs, everything.
Śyāmasundara: With the creative process advancement in ever higher levels up into the level of immortality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are getting different types of body, and when you are properly or perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, then no more this material body; you get spiritual body.
Devotee: Does that mean that I am, if I don't make it to immortality, I (indistinct)?
Śyāmasundara: No. The life force is eternal but it advances to higher and higher levels.
Devotee: It's eternal, but I don't realize its eternality (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: No. The forms. The life force itself is eternal but the forms will change up to the stage of immortality.
Prabhupāda: Material forms have changed. The living force has not. The same example: the living force is there, the forms babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, the form is changed, but the person whose bodies have been changed, he is permanent, he is spiritual, he is not changed. But when he identifies with the body, he thinks that "I am changed." The example is, just like in the rainy season, at night there is cloud, and the cloud is moving, but if you see, you see the moon is moving, moon is moving. But actually the moon is not moving, the cloud is moving. You have any experience?
Prabhupāda: He does not know. At the present moment I am fallen, so even if I go to my original position, there is chance of again falling down. Otherwise, how I became fallen? Just like a child once falls and again stands up, he has got chance of again falling down. You cannot say, "Now he has stood up, he'll not fall again." That is not possible.
Devotee: The different kinds of bodies, they're just different phases of the illusion, because the real, spiritual body is always the same, it's not changing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is called sanātana, eternal.
Hayagrīva: Well, this can be taken from the individual point of view or from the idea that God is the architect of the universe. But according to the system of yugas, there is a greater harmony in the beginning, and as the universe winds down, this harmony disintegrates-Tretā-, Dvāpara-, and Kali-yuga. Yet there's a plan.
Prabhupāda: That's, what is called, that is the nature. First, first of all something is created, then it develops, it stays for some time, then it becomes old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called six changes of sarvika (?), of anything material. But a spirit soul is not material. He is not subjected to all these changes. This is our practical experience. The body is changing but spirit soul is the same. He remembers that "I had this body, a child's body. I have this young boy's body." He remembers; therefore he is eternal. The change is taking place of the body, so therefore the soul has nothing to do with the bodily changes. He has got his perpetual duty, perpetual activity—that is devotional service. So he has to be trained up in that perpetual duty, then he will stop this process of bodily changes, he will remain in his eternal body, spiritual body. That is going back to home, back to Godhead.
Hayagrīva: He says, "If you throw away His grace, He punishes you by behaving objectively toward you, and in that sense one may say that the world has not got a personal God in spite of all the proofs. But while dons and parsons," that is priests, "drivel on," talk on, "about the millions of truths about God's personality, the truth is that there are no longer the men living who could bear the pressure and weight of having a personal God." Because he feels that a personal God would make demands on man, and so therefore men reject the idea of a personal God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal God means He is demanding, as Kṛṣṇa is demanding, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me, or offer Me worship, offer Me obeisances, and become My devotee. And give up all other engagement. Simply be engaged in My service." This is the demand of God, and if we carry out His demand, then we are perfect. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply carry out the orders of God then you become qualified, fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. This is clearly stated. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body, but a devotee, a pure devotee, after giving up this body, he doesn't accept another material body, but in his original, spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. His main philosophy is that existence and essence are both there; that existence is not possible without essence. He defines existence to be..., er, essence to be potential and existence to be the actual. So that a thing, and everything that we can perceive, has both existence and, in other words, potentiality and actuality. For instance, this cup has the potentiality to be something else, to be a piece of metal, but in its actual form it is like this. But it has potentiality to become something else. So he says these two things—the essence and the existence-exist simultaneously.
Prabhupāda: So we agree to this point. Just like soul, at the present moment you have got a certain type of body, human body, but the soul has potentiality to have a spiritual body or a dog's body. Both potentialities are there. So the essential is the soul, and the reality... It is not reality; temporary form in the material body. But the potentiality as the soul has its own spiritual body. When it is uncontaminated by the material contamination, he remains only reality without any so-called actuality or temporary form.
Śyāmasundara: He says that God, He is pure actuality. There is no potentiality.
Prabhupāda: Absolute.
Śyāmasundara: He is Absolute. He is pure existence and essence together, but that the..., everything else that exists besides God has these two characteristics of potentiality and actuality.
Prabhupāda: That potentiality, actuality, it is material relativity. In the spiritual world there is same—potentiality, reality—they're one. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, the rascal scholars, they think that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different, as it is, what is called, expressed by Dr. Radhakrishnan. But that is not the fact. There is no such difference. Kṛṣṇa also says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). Because He comes in a human form, rascals think of Him as ordinary human being. But He is not that. He is absolute. He has nothing to do with the body and soul as we have got. He is body and soul together-potentiality and the actuality. Similarly, anyone who gets a spiritual body, he also gets the same position. There will be no difference between actuality and potentiality.
Śyāmasundara: Electric energy is also measured in terms of its potency, its potential.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So for God there is no such distinction; therefore it is called kaivalya. For Him the material energy or the spiritual energy is the same. Therefore the Māyāvādīs, they cannot understand God. They think that Kṛṣṇa, when He comes, He accepts a material body. But even He accepts a material body, for Him there is no such distinction-spiritual body and material body. He is..., He being omnipotent, He can act even in His material body as spiritual. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was present, accepting that He has a material body, but at the age of seven years old He lifted the big hill. That is not possible by the material body. Therefore, as omnipotent He can turn the material energy into spiritual energy and the spiritual energy into material energy. That is omnipotency. But those who are with poor fund of knowledge, they think that Kṛṣṇa has got this material body. Actually He has no such distinction, either material or... Just like electrical engineer, he knows how to tackle electric energy. He can convert the heater into refrigerator, and he can convert the refrigerator into heater, because he knows how to do it.
Hayagrīva: ...what happens to the material elements. The material elements disintegrate, disintegrate...
Prabhupāda: The material body...
Hayagrīva: They're distributed in nature.
Prabhupāda: ...it finishes, but of course this idea can be maintained. In the higher sense, that is not gross body; that is spiritual body. That is applicable to God and special representative of God, not to all. Then that is not material body; that is spiritual body. Means when God appears He appears in His spiritual body. It does not change. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that millions of years ago He spoke to the sun-god, and Arjuna questioned, "How it is to be understood that millions of years ago You spoke it?" So He said that "Yes, I did. You were also present, but you do not remember. I remember." So how it is possible? One who does not change the body, He can remember. Just like when we do not change the body, I can remember, but when we change body we do not remember. This is the principle. So this resurrection, I do not know what the exact meaning, but as to the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He comes in His original body, not covered by material body. Therefore, because He has no material body, there is no change.
Hayagrīva: He says, "On a higher level the process of resurrection is no longer understood in a gross material sense. It is assumed that the resurrection of the dead is the raising up of the corpus glorificaciones, that is the glorified body, the subtle body, in the state of incorruptibility."
Prabhupāda: That I said, the spiritual body. The spiritual body never changes. When one comes with the spiritual body there is no change. Material body changes, but God has no material body. The conception of..., Māyāvādī conception that Absolute Truth is impersonal, when He comes as a person He accepts a material body, that is not understood by those who are advanced in spiritual knowledge or take information from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ (BG 9.11). Because He appears as a human being, rascals think that He is a human being, but He is not. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. He has no knowledge of the spiritual body.
Hayagrīva: The fourth form of rebirth is called renovacio and applies to the transformation of a mortal into an immortal being, of a corporeal into a spiritual being, and of a human into a divine being. Well-known prototypes of this change are the transfiguration and ascension of Christ and the assumption of the mother of God into heaven after her death together with her body. In other words, the body is somehow..., it doesn't die, the gross body doesn't die, but it's transformed.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual, spiritual body continues. Spiritual body never dies. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So hanyamāne, destruction, is of the material body. The spiritual body is never destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. The spiritual body, neither it is generated, neither it is dead. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ: it is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) it, it is not destroyed even after the destruction of the material body. That is spiritual body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many instances. The special instance is Kṛṣṇa and His associates.
Hayagrīva: They didn't go through any death of any sort.
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: But the body traveled to...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...higher spheres.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...
Hayagrīva: Kṛṣṇa also took Arjuna...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...to...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual body everyone possesses.
Prabhupāda: He has predicted very nice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is above everything, either Christianism or Marxism or capitalism or anything. It is based on Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So actually it is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says that if you adopt this principle of life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will remain above all sinful reaction of life and make progress spiritually, gradually.
- mām upetya kaunteya
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
If you cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the result will be that "The devotee will come back to Me. And one who attains to Me, he hasn't got to go back again to this material world." In another place the same thing is said: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "Those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious they, giving, after giving up this body"—everyone has to give up this body—"he does not accept any more the material body. He comes to Me." "Comes to Me" means "He comes to Me in his spiritual body." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give up this material world and go back to home, back to Godhead.
Hayagrīva: "Once having tasted the pleasures of independence, they use their freedom to go any direction that leads away from their origin, and when they have gone a great distance, they even forget that they came from it."
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. More and more degraded. That I have already explained. He begins his life as Lord Brahmā and goes down as the worm in the stool. That is his degradation. And again, by nature's way, by evolution, he comes to the human form of life. That is a chance to understand that how he has fallen. And if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then from this life he goes again back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If he fully becomes trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... And everyone has to give up this body, so a devotee will give up this body, but he is not going to accept any more material body. Immediately transferred to the spiritual world. Mām eti: "He comes to Me." That is the advantage. They sometimes, foolish persons, say that "You are also going to die." Yes, you are going to die, I am also going to die, it's a fact, but a devotee's death means giving up this body and remain in his original, spiritual body. Sometimes it is said, jīvo vā maro vā. A devotee, either he is living or he is dead, his business is the same. And those on the lowest platform of material life, just like the butcher, that he is advised, mā jīva mā maro, "Don't live; don't die." Because he is living very abominable life, daily cutting the throats of so many animals. Is that very nice life? So it is abominable, and as soon as he dies, he is going to suffer. So his position is, "Either you live or you die, his position is very, er, horrible." And a devotee, either he lives or dies, his business is the same—to serve Kṛṣṇa. So jīvo vā maro vā. He is not different from Kṛṣṇa, so living or dead, it hasn't even no meaning for him. Therefore he is called liberated, jīvan-muktaḥ. Jīvan-muktaḥ means although he is in body, in this body, material body, he is liberated. Jīvan mukta sa ucyate. Īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vacaḥ. That is Rūpa Goswami's definition. A person who is cent percent engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, karmaṇā, by action, by mind, karmaṇā manasā, by words, he is not to be considered that possessing any more a material body. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. He is already liberated, on the spiritual platform, although apparently he moves like material body. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. And in Bhagavad-gītā also it is confirmed, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, sa guṇān samatītyā: he is not under the condition of the modes of material nature. He is already in the Brahman platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).
Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Origen. Origen believed that all the elements that are found in the material body are also found in the spiritual body, which he called the interior man. He says, "God created man not taking the dust of the earth like the second time, but He created him after the image of God," that is initially, "this being after the likeness of God was immaterial, superior to any corporeal hypothesis. There are thus two men in each one of us, as every exterior man has for homonym the interior man. So it is for all His members, and one can say that every member of the exterior man can be found under this name in the interior man." So that for every corresponding sense that we have in the exterior body, there's a corresponding sense in the interior or the spiritual body which exists within.
Prabhupāda: The spirit soul is within this material body, but the spirit soul has no material body originally. There is a spiritual body of the spirit soul eternally existing, and the material body is simply coating of the spiritual body. This material body is considered as coating, shirt-coat. It is cut according to the bodily shape. Just ordinarily we can see the tailor makes the shirt and coat according to the shape of the body. Similarly, these material elements, earth, water, fire, etc., mixed together, becomes like a clay, and it is coated over the spiritual body. The spiritual body has no connection with the material body. So because the spiritual body has got shape, the material body also takes a shape. That is understanding. But material body has nothing to do with the spiritual body. It is simply external coating, or it is a kind of contamination for suffering of the spirit soul. As soon as he is coated with this material contamination, he identifies himself with the coating and he forgets his real, spiritual body. That is called māyā, ignorance, and this ignorance continues so long he is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. When one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he understands that this material body is the external coating; he is different from this material body.
Hayagrīva: Origen believed that the interior man, or the spiritual body, also has spiritual senses which enable the soul to taste, see, touch and contemplate the things of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotional life.
Hayagrīva: For Origen there are two rebirths. One is a baptism, which is something like an initiation, and then there is a complete purification, a rebirth in the spiritual world with Christ. So baptism is compared to a shadow of the ultimate rebirth, and when the soul is reborn with Christ, it receives a spiritual body like Christ and beholds Christ face to face.
Prabhupāda: Christ behold?
Hayagrīva: The individual soul can then see Christ face to face when he attains his spiritual body.
Prabhupāda: What is the position of Christ?
Hayagrīva: What is the position of Christ?
Prabhupāda: He, does he describe anything?
Hayagrīva: Well, not Origen. The position of Christ is that he is seated at the right hand of the father, that he is in the spiritual sky with the father.
Prabhupāda: No, here, when Christ was present, so so many persons saw him. So what is the position?
Prabhupāda: So different persons, so that is all right. According to the status of a person, he sees another person individually. That is all right. So Christ is in his full spiritual body, that is the idea?
Hayagrīva: That's the idea.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We also think like that.
Hayagrīva: He didn't believe that the individual soul existed from all eternity. It was created. The...
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: The rational natures that were made in the beginning did not always exist. They came into being when they were created.
Prabhupāda: That is not correct. The living entity is eternally existing, as God is eternally existing, the living entity who is the part and parcel of God. But the living entity, as we have several times..., being a small spark, sometimes the illumination is extinguished or stopped for the time being, but he is eternally existing, changing the body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), after the destruction of the body. The material life means the body is destructed, one body after another, but the living being is eternally existing, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Prabhupāda: Yes, gift you can take. If you take it that it is given by God, so it is gift. "God has given me this body for punishment. It is His mercy that undergoing punishment I am becoming purified, making progress towards God." The devotees, they think like that. Although it is punishment, they take it as reward, because by undergoing the punishment he is making progress towards God-realization. In that sense it is a gift. Gift actually means something given by somebody. So when it is given by God for our correction, it can be taken as gift.
Hayagrīva: Augustine believes that the physical body comes first, and then the spiritual. "What is so in a natural body arises a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. But it is not the spiritual which comes first, but the physical and then the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthy. The second man is from heaven, heavenly. But the body which, by the life-giving spirit will become spiritual and immortal, will under no conditions be able to die." So that man must first come as a, as man, as a mortal, physical being first, in order to attain immortality.
Prabhupāda: Why man? Every living entity has a mortal body. So to enter into the mortal body, that is a kind of punishment. And then there is evolutionary process from lower grade of body to higher grade of body. That is quite reasonable, that every living entity or soul is part and parcel of God, but on account of some sinful activities or disobedience to God, as they believe Adam on account of disobedience to God they lost Paradise and came to this material world, similarly, the soul belongs to the Paradise, or heaven, or Kṛṣṇa, but somehow or other he falls down within this material world, and he gets first a body like Adam. But again, on account of his further, low-grade activities, he goes down, sometimes as human being or sometimes as more than human being—the demigod—and sometimes as animal, trees, plants. In this way he goes down, degradation, or goes up by elevation. But he is always aloof from the material body, but according to his desires and activity he gets different body. This is quite reasonable and confirmed by the Vedic literature. But his actual life is when he is freed from this material contamination, getting different bodies life after life.
Hayagrīva: Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As in the material world any form-man or beast or anyone—in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body.
Hayagrīva: So again we see the Christian conception that God created the soul out of nothing.
Prabhupāda: No. The soul is created and... Actually not created. Soul is existing along with God, just like the sparks of fire is existing with the fire. But the difference between the two fire is that the sparks may be separated from the big fire, and when it is separated, is loses its illumination. Similarly, an individual soul is already there. The master is there and the servants are there, eternally. Just like the body is there, the parts of the body are also there. We cannot say that the parts of the body is separately created. As soon as the body is there, the fingers of the body are there, the other limbs and parts of the body are all there. The soul is never created or never dead. It is explained in the Bhāgavata, na jāyate vā mriyate vā. Soul has neither creation nor death. It appears, because the soul has accepted this material body, with the end of this material body it appears that somebody is dead. But he is not dead. He simply transfers from this body to another body, and when he is liberated, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. Then in his original, spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead. So actually the soul is never created. It is always existing with God, and this is nice that if it is accepted the soul is created, then God is also Supreme Soul—the question may be raised that He is also created. So that is not the fact. God is eternal, and His part and parcels are also eternal. The only difference is that God never accepts this material body, but the individual soul, being small particle, it may be sometimes he succumbs by the material energy.
Hayagrīva: So..., but the soul is eternally existing with God in some form?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Well that..., well then maybe this is saying the same thing. "By its nature the form of the soul is the form of the body. It is that form incorruptible."
Prabhupāda: No. The form..., material body is imitation, is false. Real body is the spiritual body. Because the spiritual body has form, the coating of the spiritual body by matter takes a form, as I have already explained, that the shirt and coat originally has no form, but when the shirt and coat is cut by the tailor according the form of the man, it takes a form. So actually this material form is illusion. It is not form. It, it takes the form, and when it is old enough, no more use, it again comes to the original position, earth. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." This form is made by the material nature. It is just like a machine. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). The soul has its own form, but he is given a machine, a particular machine, which is this body, and therefore he enjoys by wandering throughout the whole universe in different conditions of life.
Hayagrīva: He believed that as long as man is composed of body and soul, he will be under the mode of passion, and as long as the soul is confined to the body, the living entity will necessarily be attached to the physical world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We call it māyā. So that can... The body and soul in the material world is there, and therefore the aim of life is how to separate this soul from material body and remain in his original, spiritual form. That is the whole ideal objective for human life, because as long as he remains attached to the body, and... But he has to change the body. That is our practical experience also. We are changing always the body, one after another, and if we give up our attachment for this body, then we are liberated. That is called mukti, to remain in a spiritual body. That is possible only by always thinking of God. That is meditation. That is actual meditation. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. To become Kṛṣṇa's devotee, to become worshiper of Kṛṣṇa, and always offering obeisances: "My Lord, I am Your eternal servant. Kindly keep me engaged in Your service"—that much prayer; nothing more.
Hayagrīva: He does not believe that God has a body because by body, he says, we understand a certain quantity possessing life, breadth and depth, limited by some fixed form, and that to attribute these to God, a being absolutely infinite, is the greatest absurdity.
Prabhupāda: No. God has body, but not this material body. The material body is limited. That does not mean... This is imperfect knowledge of the spiritual quality. God has got body. That is confirmed in Vedic literature, sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body, a form. But His form is eternal. He is all-aware, sat-cit, and He is always blissful. So this body is neither eternal nor blissful nor all-awareness. Therefore this body is different from God's body. But God has got a body which is different in quality. That is spiritual body.
Purports to Songs
Unalloyed love means without any tinge of philosophical speculation or fruitive activity. That's another subject. It requires great explanation. But unalloyed love means without any tinge of material color. (indistinct) That is called unalloyed. Even philosophical speculation or fruitive activities, if it is offered to the Supreme Lord, that is not love. Love is above this. So if one can achieve that unalloyed love for God, with that, I mean to say, magic wand, the eye becomes eligible for seeing God. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). And that, that eye, is called devotional eye, devotional. We have to... Not only eyes, but every part of our body, we have to spiritualize by the contact. By the contact of spiritual service in devotion of the Lord, we can gradually spiritualize our whole act of senses. Just like a iron rod put into the fire. Gradually the temperature rises. It becomes warm, warmer, warmest, very hot, then red hot. When it is red hot, then it is no longer iron; it is fire. Similarly, by our contact in devotional service of the Lord we can change the whole position of our material existence.
| Page Title: | Spiritual body (Lectures, SB & Others) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 22 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=160, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 160 |