South Africa (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"South Africa"

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: George is going to make any more records, recordings?

Prabhupāda: He has already made one record about our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Gurudāsa: Really?

Prabhupāda: Yes, recent.

Gurudāsa: With talking on it, vocal?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gurudāsa: With some talking on it.

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. Śyāmasundara is coming tomorrow. Where is that telegram?

Devotee (3): It's just here.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...India, I'll have to go South Africa. Johannesburg?

Gurudāsa: Johannesburg.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg, yes. There also we are meeting with great success. And from Johannesburg, then I shall go to London. In Moscow also we have got a small center. I went to Moscow.

Indian man: Russians running it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Russians. Russian young boys are as good as Americans. By artificial means they have been checked. The Russian government is not good at all. Suppression. Simply suppression.

Indian man: But they permit this kind of thing?

Prabhupāda: They do not permit, but they are holding class.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Brahmānanda: If Gandhi did it, then, they say: "Oh, now we can do it."

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama...

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But you can speak English very nicely.

Dr. Hauser: I lived in South America for about five years.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. What is called? South America. Oh, South Africa.

Śrutakīrti: South America.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, Johannesburg, South Africa. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: You lived in South America?

Dr. Hauser: In Brazil, yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Brazil.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). There is superior overlooking. That is Kṛṣṇa, anumantā, upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā anumantā.

Karandhara: One man, Dr. Wyberg from South Africa, he was the first successful heart transplant. So as soon as he got out of the hospital he started drinking and having sex life. (laughter) He was saying, "How wonderful science is. It can prolong my enjoyment." Then he died about a year later from too much...

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and some European, one European was coming. So as soon as we face to face, so I had to get down. They forced me.

Dr. Patel: You know that way they behaved with Gandhiji in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Beaten him like anything. He would have died. (break) Fisher's, Fisherman's island. "I shall again turn them into fisherman's island."

Dr. Patel: British people is the fisherman's island.

Prabhupāda: Germany is the bitterest enemy of Britain.

Dr. Patel: Stalin.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Excuse me if I go back for a moment to this question which is not that I ask if you are, excuse it, if you go only to some, you go to all the people. I agree this is not (indistinct). But because we are few... I give an example. Why, instead of going, suppose, to South Africa where the majority, the great majority, are believers, you don't go to Japan?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we go.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: This is more important because you have not so many. If you go to South Africa, and although... I mean because also we. We have not so many. It's a question of possibility, of chances. Why don't you choose...? This is my question. These areas where Japan for instance is an area very atheistic and where yesterday I had this sect with me of the not perfectly... It's called... No. It's a different one. Mr. Kalyana is the president. He came yesterday. He came yesterday. Mr. Kalyana. Well, they don't believe, as you say. This is philosophy. Welfare, is happiness, but not in your meaning, in my meaning. Well, this is only to ask, then you go to Japan?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, we have a center in Tokyo.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got center in Japan, in Hong Kong.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Are you welcome in Japan? People are interested, eh?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently some of our preachers, they have collected fifty-thousand dollars from the Japanese people. They wanted to contribute me for my Vṛndāvana temple, but the Japanese government will not allow to let the money go out. He wrote me.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mainly these French and...

Brahmānanda: French, British, Germans, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa, the British also tried to take over South Africa. There was a war called the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So during World War I and World War II many of the South Africans, they actually sided with the Germans because they were against the English so much.

Prabhupāda: African means black Africans. No?

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: ...Christian missionaries. They are trying to convert others, but they are closing their churches. They are selling their churches to us.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Finding new suckers. In South Africa they put up big paṇḍāls, and because the Indian people, they have no entertainment in the evening, so they go there and they are entertained, and they learn how to sing the hymns that they have. Then you find that the children are singing the hymns because that's the songs that they're learning. If we can provide entertainment like that in the form of saṅkīrtana, then they'll also sing Hare Kṛṣṇa and become devotees of Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Indians don't need pass. The Indians, however, they were only allowed to live where they were born. They aren't allowed to move around. But this year they finished that law. Now the Indians can live anywhere in South Africa in Indian areas. They can move around to different cities. Before this year they weren't allowed to do it.

Prabhupāda: So post... (break) ...service is not good?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good. But the Africans, they are so many they have to queue up. I don't think, in America, that the American negroes would be able to queue up and wait as patiently as these people. I think they have a little...

Prabhupāda: They have been trained up.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: This is residential or industrial?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Over here is all residential, European apartment houses. And along the beach there is all hotels. This is a very big resort area in South Africa. There's a... Whole south coast, going down for about eighty miles, is all resorts. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...English-made city?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Durban is English city. Capetown has Dutch influence.

Prabhupāda: It resembles Melbourne. Melbourne. Australian Melbourne, this quarter resembles. (break) ...from Indian Ocean?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So England has got money to invest still?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They do much investment here in South Africa. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a sidewalk here. Would you prefer walking on the sidewalk or the sands?

Prabhupāda: Yes, sidewalk is better.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. A little bit hard on the...

Harikeśa: Did we pass by a park when we were coming?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We will check out some places today. (break) ...cold spell now.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: They are given equal facility for education?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. When Gokulendra went to England he saw a European man with a pick in his hand, and he couldn't believe it, because in South Africa you never see a European person with a pick opening up the street. Only the Africans do things like that. And they'll have one European man standing there, directing. He'll make so much money. (break)

Prabhupāda: Indians are taken within the group of black? No.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: I got a copy of the Bhagavad-gītā at the last occassion when your representatives were here, which I thought was a very well brought out and a very well documented edition. The printing is also very good. So we are trying at this university to, slowly, to delve down into the infrastructure of education. Of course, one..., in the Western society one has got to take cognizance of so many developments in the various fields of science. And the element of spiritual science certainly has been neglected. I would concede this point immediately. That is perhaps where this university can also still play a meaningful part. Of course, here we have representatives of three of the world's greatest religions: Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity. This will be part of Professor Oosthuizen's department, to try and take the best out of these and formulate for our students, and maybe for the rest of South Africa and the world that will listen, the essences of religion that would really satisfy as we go along.

Prabhupāda: We say that religion means the law given by God. So any religion must accept God. Then there is no difference. The law may be little different according to time, circumstances. But religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19).

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: I am on all planets. When I come to other country I see the same tree, the same road and the same sand. So what is the difference? I don't find any difference between India and this South Africa because the same trees are there, same grass is there, the same road is there, the same... So similarly, in every planet, without going we can understand, if we are sane men. We come here not to see how is South Africa. We have come here to preach Kṛṣṇa conscious.... That is our business. We don't come as a tourist to see how South Africa is. What South Africa? The same building, same road, same—everything same. What to see here? Especially, they are also eating, sleeping and struggling. That's all.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: No. The Ārya-patha-nidi-sabhā, which is an organization which was started about a hundred years ago by Swami Dayananda in India, with a motto of bhavantu viśvam āryam: "Let us make all men noble through search after truth," and that started in South Africa about fifty years ago. And one of the leading gentlemen in the organization today was the one sitting on the extreme left-hand side, Mr. Chautay. They are celebrating their fiftieth anniversary here in South Africa with a week's program, and they invited these two ācāryas over from India. One is from Delhi. I don't know where the other one is from. They invited them over to grace their celebrations. So they have been having a week of celebrations starting in the City Hall last Sunday.

Prabhupāda: This Sunday?

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have thousands and thousands of books here in South Africa.

Prof. Olivier: In South Africa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Very, very reasonable prices.

Prabhupāda: Your Sanskrit professor, he has seen?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Sanskrit professor has noted that he would like to take the whole set of books.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Devotee: And he was interested in getting a whole standing order of books. And I said I could supply the books, but it will be a while before we got every single one from America, including the Bengali books, etc. We have to order them specially because South Africa doesn't have a good communication with America as far as transporting large quantities...

Prabhupāda: No, we shall supply from here. You haven't got to bother.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have good stock now. We have in stock over a thousand of all these books.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the purpose of education.

Prof. Olivier: Apart from anything else, our Indian, our Hindu community here in South Africa seems to be very loose from any fixed idea of what constitutes Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: And especially the young people, they are therefore living in a complete vacuum. For various reasons they do not want to accept...and I come back to the word religion again because this is what they have about, or see around them. They cannot identify themselves with the Christian religion. They cannot identify themselves with the Islamic religion. They are largely ignorant.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: This is the right path, original, authentic.

Prof. Olivier: There were not very many great scholars in South Africa amongst our Indian community, you know. They came out by and large as workers on the sugar plantations. A few were Christian missionaries, a few were jewelers and tailors and so on. And then for the last hundred years they were occupied in resisting...

Prabhupāda: Political struggle.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: You can ask the Hindu community.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They will testify to our character. They accept. They accept.

Prof. Olivier: You see, the...South Africa has had to import its priests, its Hindu priests.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even the young girls who join our movement, they cover their heads. And the Hindu ladies are so impressed that they practice such chastity, even to the extent always covering their head as a sign of chastity. They very much appreciate.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: (wind blowing) Pranair arthair dhiya vacaḥ śreya acaraṇam... (break) ...by words, by intelligence, everyone should serve Kṛṣṇa, then life is successful. Pranair arthair dhiya vacaḥ.

Indian man (1): What of meetings, religious meetings, especially here in South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man (1): In South Africa here especially, number of religious meetings, they start off with the Gāyatrī mantra three times, and at the end of the meeting they have a ṣantipat. Now is there any real necessity for a religious meeting to start off with the Gāyatrī mantra and end with santipat?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's not bad.

Car ride from Durban to Johannesburg -- October 13, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa's grace...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here in South Africa is very, very conservative government, and we've been allowed to do practically everything. Simply Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Yogamāyā allows our saṅkīrtana activities to go on.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who will read our books, he will come to senses. These are all Indian quarters? (break) ...haven't got any good temple till now. (break) ...Africans, they do not live either with Indians or Europeans. They live separately.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes, gold, silver, whatever you want. That was the... Now this is stopped. You can not ask now gold coins and silver coins. Whatever government will give you, you have to accept. Where is honesty?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in South Africa they have a coin called the Krugerrand. And one rand is worth one hundred cents, one rand of paper money. But one rand gold is worth about seventy-eight rand.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Devotee (1): It's constantly going up and down, the price. Hundred and eight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here is the car, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Everything mismanaged, cheating.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: Your Grace, can I start by asking you what do you think of South Africa?

Prabhupāda: That you can reply. Just preach this cult, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I was expected since a long time. So I could not come here due to my other engagements.

Reporter: Yes. What are your views of the country? What do you think of it?

Prabhupāda: Every country is all right. I don't find any fault. But only difficulty is that all over the world the civilization is being misdirected.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: Your Grace, a great many of South Africa's church leaders from some of the big churches are fearful that South Africa is going to find itself in a situation, or find... What message would you give this country in terms of avoiding any...

Prabhupāda: No, I am going to every country because everywhere the same mistake is going on, bodily concept of life. So I am trying to bring them to the real life and then make their plan. They will be happy. It is not for South Africa. For any Africa, or any country, South America or South India or anywhere. The problem is the same. Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this."

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: My last question: Will you be meeting other spiritual leaders in South Africa?

Prabhupāda: I do not know who is that spiritual leader. Nobody...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We haven't found any really prominent personalities to introduce Prabhupāda to.

Prabhupāda: But one spiritual leader is there, Swami Sahajananda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the Divine Life Society in Durban, the head of that. He wrote one letter praising Prabhupāda's work, that he is rightfully representing the Vedic literatures.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: This appears to be nim tree like, but it is not.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Should we take one branch?

Prabhupāda: No, no. How long you are all in South Africa?

Indian: All were born here.

Prabhupāda: You were born, all of you?

Indian: We're born in India.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (walking sounds, car doors closing) (in the car)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The karmī and the jñānī are both within the material world. Is the jñānī considered more elevated than the karmī?

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma īḍya-dhīḥ, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). South Africa... (Hindi) ...successful.

Dr. Patel: South Africa, majority of them are rooting Holland. Not many other.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there are all kinds of Europeans.

Dr. Patel: No, but majority of them are Hollanders. That is why this, they were against the Britishers.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So in South Africa we had very successful programs.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They are the old sticks?

Prabhupāda: Take it away and leave here.

Dr. Patel: No, I don't want it. (laughter) This has come from South Africa?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It was presented by Visalini in Vṛndāvana. One American girl student, she has given it. (break)

Dr. Patel: Man-manā bhava. Perpetually. It is just like an insect climbing a wall. Immediately it comes down on the ground. It takes about twenty-four hours.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Dr. Patel: South Africa is just like, just like, as cold as Europe.

Prabhupāda: Not very cold, but it is cold. Durban. Durban.

Dr. Patel: Durban, there is a huge population of Indians, and all Gujaratis.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Somehow or other, Bengalis and Gujaratis are akin. Why they have one living in West and other in East? What must be the cause of oneness even in thought and action, in every way.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.

Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.

Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, in South Africa there is gold. In the city there are so many gold mines in South Africa.

Dr. Patel: Yes. South Africa is today supplying more than half of the world gold. Our mines are getting exhausted in Kolar(?) and all this, Mysore State. America, they have not been able to search out gold anywhere. Perhaps in South America they may be having some gold mines, but they have not made any survey. But the Russians, they say there are very huge mountains, gold on the surface.

Yaśomatīnandana: Sumeru is made of gold, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: The city of Johannesburg is built on a gold reef, a reef of gold. There's so much gold there, and to dig it up they will have to break the city streets. They have deliberately built the city on top of the gold.

Dr. Patel: That South Africa is in the belt of Brazil more or less. And Brazil is very difficult place to search about this because they are all jungle, no? Brazil and south of Brazil. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Russians do not utilize the gold...

Dr. Patel: They think gold has got no value so far as value... Because it is a stamping metal. Otherwise what use it can be made of? So far as the society is concerned, iron is more important than gold, to tell the truth.

Prabhupāda: So let them exchange.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You know that? What is that article?

Aksayānanda: The one you heard last night?

Prabhupāda: No. When I was in South America I saw that...

Harikesa: South Africa.

Prabhupāda: South Africa. There are many factories for chicken killing. So I suggested that the egg, you can analyze, find out the chemicals and...

Aksayānanda: Create one.

Prabhupāda: Create one egg. That was my proposal. So he is going to create. (laughter) He'll explain how to create egg from...

Aksayānanda: From chemicals.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: This is your own?

Yaśodānandana: We are renting.

Prabhupāda: When I was in South Africa...

Indian man (1): South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Johannesburg. This beach reminds me of that beach. You were with me?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All statues are crying here.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Harikeśa: You told them that in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Did I say?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they clapped.

Harikeśa: Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They appreciated. Although they do not take Indians very seriously...

Harikeśa: "Third-class citizens."

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Third class. But they attended my lecture, they purchased my books and they clapped.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. South Africa...

Prabhupāda: Yes, South Africa. That I... Very much I was astonished that how these...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of them?

Prabhupāda: Oh, many of them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I thought only Indians attended.

Harikeśa: Oh, no.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, no, even if he gives away, this is not a fault, you see? Suppose there are... In South Africa many Indians are purchasing our books and giving to the library. So somebody will read it. So that is not a fault. If I purchase from you and give it, distribute it free to somebody else, that is not wrong thing.

Siddha-svarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I don't think that there's any difference in philosophical understanding or anything. I think just the basic point that there's different ways of working, in a sense, and I won't...

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cultural movement, educational movement. It is not so-called religious movement. Religious movement is sentiment. Generally religion is taken as a kind of faith, but it is not a kind of faith. In.... I think, in South America that Indian man was asking that "It is the Hindu faith?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in South Africa. He was asking, "Is this Hindu faith?" "This cult or that cult."

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All of them are South African?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, actually, he's from South Africa and he's from South Africa. These two devotees are going down for the first time, and Jagat-guru was preaching there once before.

Prabhupāda: So they will get visa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't require visa except for Jagat-guru. He's British, he's Canadian. He's South African boy. He's South African.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they don't require visa.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So all five, you are going?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, we have studied this South Africa. They like our movement. They are purchasing books. That is very good sign. Is it not? They are purchasing? Who are purchasing books? Educated circle?

Devotee (1): Colleges.

Prabhupāda: College. That is.... College, universities, that is educated.... So I was surprised when, after my meeting, they purchased books, because these South African white men, they do not like very much Indians. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think so. They already have permission.

Jagat-guru: They can give permission, will do probably. And also we want to establish also, apart from the temple, one bus program which will reach all the towns and villages there in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Jagat-guru: And also we will go to Rhodesia and probably Malawi and maybe Mozambique, which are countries in our area. And also I spoke to the boys from Mauritius, and...

Prabhupāda: Mauritius, we have got now devotee.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When? Early in the morning?

Devotee: Yes. We're making the arrangement tomorrow to go. We're getting tickets and some books. Then Jagat-guru will follow a few days later.

Prabhupāda: Make vigorous propaganda all over the world. From South Africa, Australia, there is direct service.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Direct service.

Prabhupāda: Perth.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Perth.

Prabhupāda: From Perth to...

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sydney.

Prabhupāda: No, South Africa...?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How many hours? It's about nine hours.

Prabhupāda: Not much. Nearer than India. From India to Australia takes so many hours.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Five hours it was, from Bombay to Mauritius.

Prabhupāda: Five hours, again nine hours.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And then it was about three hours to South Africa from Mauritius.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Australia.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. If the flight is broken up like that, it's a little easier, from South Africa to Mauritius to Perth, or even to Bombay. It's about the same distance from Bombay to Mauritius as to Australia from Mauritius.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda is thinking about going from India to South Africa to Australia to make the flight easier.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it makes the flight easier, because you're going like a triangle, this way and then this way. Let us arrange some nice program first, so that when you come again we'll have something nice to offer you.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: A unique situation in South Africa, because there are many Europeans that are being drafted into the Army, but they will not allow the Indians to be drafted. They don't want them to go into the military forces because they're afraid they're too intelligent.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of our brahmacārīs, they've been drafted into the army. We've lost several devotees like that, because it's very hard for them to maintain their Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the army.

Prabhupāda: Conscription.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think our students who are going to be ministers, they are excused from draft.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, even in South Africa the ministers.... No excuse. It's a very strict situation. If you don't go into the army, you go to jail. Even if you're a minister, they don't care. There is no religious grounds for objecting. But only the Europeans are in the army, no one else. They're afraid that if the Indians had guns, they might use them against the Europeans.

Devotee: So we're going to try and make more devotees this year, more Indian devotees especially. We've never really tried before.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagat-guru: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you have seen on our altar, Gaura-Nitāi? We have large Gaura-Nitāi and two small, three actually, three small sets of Gaura-Nitāi Deities. The ones on the far left, just under Lord Nityānanda's feet, They are going also to South Africa. They came originally from East Africa. I mentioned it when I first came to Māyāpur(?). So we will be taking them. We have a very nice siṁhāsana built for Them, finished tomorrow, and we'll be displaying Them at all our programs, preaching programs.

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. That's all.

Devotees: (offer obeisances) Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6).

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The life is there. You make some arrangement that it will not take part. That is another thing. If it is a fact that the egg is not life, then why you rascal do not manufacture a chemical egg and get a chicken? Why you rascal talking nonsense? That is our challenge. We say "rascals" not without consideration, because actually they talk like nonsense. Rascals. They cannot do, and still they'll insist they will do. That is rascal. Is it all right? (laughs) South, South America, er, South Africa, there are so many factories of begetting chicken.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Barbians, ah, barbarians. In the jungle, the barbarians, they do not know how to produce food, how to utilize milk. They can kill animals. That is also not like this, by machine you kill thousands of cows. They did not know this. For their simple eating they might have killed some animals, not particularly cow. Perhaps they were not killing cows because they were getting milk. Other, nonimportant animals. But what is this civilization? I learned that in South Africa, before killing the cows, they take the last drop of milk, and then it is sent to the slaughterhouse. They are so expert that if there is still little milk, take it before her death. Is that civilization, that you are taking milk...? So Vedic civilization is as you are drinking milk from the cow, she's your mother.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Because they know they don't like cow killing.

Devotee: Where?

Hari-śauri: In South Africa.

Prabhupāda: The Indian quarters near their slaughterhouse, and the animals screaming like anything whole night, and they have to hear it. The real purpose is that the Indians may go out.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, who does that?

Prabhupāda: In South Africa.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. I was in South Africa in, what is that city?

Hṛdayānanda: Johannesburg.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. From the downtown, the Indian quarters about ten miles or fifteen miles away. Indian.... African, black quarters, they are not allowed even to enter the city. They require a pass. If any black man enters the city without that passport, he will immediately be taken to police. The bus for the black man is different from the white man. I think Indians also they have got separate bus. But the bus in which the white men travel, the Indians and the black men are not allowed.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, the strange thing is that the fiercest racists in South Africa are the Boers, the Afrikaners...

Prabhupāda: That is Englishmen, Dutchmen, Dutchmen.

Dr. Wolfe: ...who were put down by the British before, and now they are the worst oppressors themselves.

Prabhupāda: These Dutchmen, Englishmen and Frenchmen were the pioneers of colonization. Spaniards also, Spanish. In America mostly the Englishmen came?

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: By bending iron.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's been to South Africa also, this Uri Geller. He was bending keys, bending keys. He's from Israel. "Like Indian-god men who had talented propaganda agents, Geller too had one. Dr. Kavoor in fact claimed that G.K. Swami Nathan, one of the magicians who performed some startling acts at the show, had disguised himself as a swami, replete with saffron robes, and had spent a few months in the āśrama of a highly popular god-man near Bangalore, from whom he had picked up his repertoire of tricks.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You may read that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of India's biggest and most ancient religious festivals, Ratha-yātrā, the festival of the chariots, which has been enacted in several Western cities in recent years, is to be staged in South Africa in July. The festival in honor of Lord Kṛṣṇa is planned to be held in Durban next month by the local branch of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, no, if you are worshiping Nitāi-Gaura, along with Jagannātha, where is the difficulty?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We only have two brāhmaṇas in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, one brāhmaṇa, half brāhmaṇa will do. Only one hand will do.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "According to Ṛddha dāsa brahmacārī, head of the local mission, the festival of the chariots glorifies Lord Jagannātha. The Lord of the universe and the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra by people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds in cities in the world over has turned into a truly international event.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, also they started, they've called the department the Department of Hindu Studies.... There's an all-Indian University in Durban, and when Śrīla Prabhupāda visited South Africa, the president of the university was a European gentleman, he very much appreciated our philosophy and the need for a Department of Hindu Studies. So Śrīla Prabhupāda recommended Svarūpa Dāmodara, and we submitted his application. And they've limited the choices for the Ph.D. in charge of the Department of Hindu Studies to three, and one of them is Svarūpa Dāmodara. So there's a possibility...

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara must be the best candidate. Others, what they'll know about it? All other Ph.D.s, they are simply rubber stamped.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa?

Prabhupāda: In Durban? Yes. They were taking money. Somebody told me.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: His grandfather left two hundred thousand dollars to be given to charity in his last will and testament, and they're scheming how to keep the money.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Jagadīśa: Is it because they are killing the cows that this is happening, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: If we say all these things, they will cut my head. (laughs) Therefore I don't say in the public meeting all these things. But it is actually dog's life(?). No value. Actually, no value. We cannot give any value to this type of civilization, running like dog with car.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember in South Africa though, Prabhupāda, you called them, (laughs) at every meeting, dogs and cats. And afterward they were always applauding. (claps)

Hari-śauri: He did that, (laughing) you did that in South India as well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think that...

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Let him now do. He wanted to pay me something, but he never paid.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I sent Kṛṣṇa-kānti, he made a, recorded this in South Africa and printed it. It's not actually legal, but we did it because we didn't think it would... This is the most wonderful record for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness because you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So pure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Originally.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People can more appreciate Hare Kṛṣṇa than these bhajanas, because they do not understand.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, magic.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have that newspaper from South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, we are not after all this magic. We are laymen. We do not want this magic, neither we want to show magic. We simply, as canvasser of Kṛṣṇa, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "Sir, Kṛṣṇa says like this, you do like that," that's all. If you like, you can do; otherwise let us do our own business. We don't show any magic, neither we speak anything which is not in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is little success, it is due to this secret, that's all. (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa says that He is Supreme, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7).

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So cow is mother because we are drinking her milk. So you cannot put any argument in favor of killing mother. If you... Anyone who supplies milk from the body, she is mother. According to Vedic civilization, cow is one of the seven mothers. There are seven mothers: the real mother, ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī, the wife of spiritual master; then queen, rāja-patnikā. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. In this way, especially, seven mothers, dhenu, dhenu means cow, and dhātrī, nurse, she is also mother. So from that point of view, cow is mother, and you cannot kill on any ground the mother. That is not good reasoning. You are taking the last drop of milk. In South Africa you said?

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: His picture is hateful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says "Profit without any honor." He quotes you in here. It says "Swami Prabhupāda, spiritual leader of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and Bill Faill, Durban, South Africa, of the Natal Mercury Reporter, had the following dialogue: (reads from magazine) Bill Faill: 'Do you think that Transcendental Meditation is helping people?' Prabhupāda: 'They do not know what real meditation is. Their meditation is simply a farce, another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. So everyone is talking about meditation, but no one knows what meditation really is.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: In South America there was a great criticism?

Hari-śauri: South Africa.

Prabhupāda: South Africa.

Indian man: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Of Satya Sai.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Because he did not have the blessing of Lord Caitanya, he did not understand it, so he rejected some of it, and as a result he was concocting. When he went to Africa, to South Africa, he started the movement there, this nonviolence...

Prabhupāda: There it was failure.

Atreya Ṛṣi: It was a failure.

Prabhupāda: Twenty years he tried, it was failure.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It was actually a very frank article, and after I read it...

Prabhupāda: Who wrote it?

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."

Hari-śauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."

Indian man: "Where East Meets West." Ah.

Hari-śauri: And this one is in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone, government official, police, public, all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was how many miles?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There are so many small useless animals. They are eating dogs also. The Chinese people, they eat dogs. So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow. In the beginning of your life you want milk immediately in the morning. And you are killing the mother? You are civilized? Do you think? You take milk up to the point of death. In South Africa, before killing the cows, they drag out milk and then send it. Milk is important, but because they are uncivilized, they do this. You take milk. Instead of killing, you prepare so many nice things from milk which is good for brain, good for intelligence.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samāji said... When I was explaining tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Kṛṣṇa is giving this example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, violent. When they were threatened with violence... They are not philosophers, that nonviolence will drive away. They are politicians. "You go on with your nonviolence movement." Gandhi did it for twenty years in Urban. What is that?

Pradyumna: Durban, South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Durban, Durban. No conclusion. The Indians are still segregated. I had been in South Africa. So from... What is that? Johannesburg. Johannesburg city, that Indian quarter, at least ten to fifteen miles away in a jungle. And there they have kept slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: So that they may go away. This policy is still going on.

Guest (1): Ācchā? South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And any quarter, the Indians, they organize, and they say, "You go away now, that quarter." Still going on.

Guest (1): Still going on... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: This is the position of Indian. So that part, Gandhi's movement there, that was a failure. No concession was given, still now. So these people they don't care about this nonviolence, satyāgraha.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...

Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Oh, yes. They're offering some compensation, that "Take some money and go away." Indians are prosperous in England.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wherever they go, they are prosperous. In America now...

Prabhupāda: In South Africa also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America they are afraid because the doctors, a huge percentage of the American doctors are Indians.

Brahmānanda: Now they have stopped. No more Indian doctors in America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't give any more doctor degrees to Indians, because they're taking over the whole medical profession.

Prabhupāda: In England also, they prefer Indian medical men.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he went to South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. South Af... He had no practice here. One attorney, he told me in Bombay that "Your Gandhi was waiting for cases here, sitting in this chair." He was not even successful lawyer. Then he got a case in Africa. He thought it wise, "Let me go there." And there, instead of becoming a lawyer, he became a political agitator. So to take equal status for the Indians he fought there. And that was failure. Still it is going on. They are very determined not to give any advantage to anyone except these whites.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...in the airport. And this caused big sensation, because never, even when big Indian gurus have come to South Africa, never have any whites bowed down. It was the first time whites bowed down to...

Prabhupāda: They clapped. After hearing me they clapped. They purchased books. Now they are selling books. So I think my books are more important. We shall give more concentration for pushing on and publishing. What do you think?

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Brahmānanda Mahārāja will retain GBC zonal responsibility of Africa and South Africa. However, he will get cooperation of Jayatīrtha, who will...

Prabhupāda: Occasionally.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He is already GBC of South Africa, so they will become co-GBCs of both Africa and South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Very good arrangement.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Has Dr. Barnard of South Africa stopped it now?

Dr. Sharma: Well, he has stopped after doing nine, but Stanford people, they have done about almost over a hundred, and they can keep somebody alive another six months or a year or at the most two years. But the man, the man's existence is very miserable. He has to take so many drugs, and he is bloated like a balloon, and he cannot even do the simple duties like taking walks or going to bathroom. He has to be very careful. If he just slips, it will develop the fracture of his ventricle, and that's all. It is very, very unnatural, and I don't think they can solve this problem at all. It is just man's struggle (for) life.(?) And I know they are saying they will do only in people with proper insurance because the hospital bill is $70,000 for a heart transplant.

Prabhupāda: All rascals, they...

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But... So your duty is to cooperate. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Living entities, Kṛṣṇa says, they are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It's duty, primary duty, is to cooperate what I say. I say the finger, "Come here." Immediately... That is the duty. That is cooperation. And I say the finger, "Come here," and finger goes anywhere, that is not cooperation. Similarly, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is cooperation. Then it will be successful. If you manufacture your own meaning, amendment, and your scholarship, nonsense, then you spoil. In politics, nonviolence? Hm? Just see. Do you think Gandhi became successful by nonviolence? Do you think? Violence. When Subhas Bose organized this I.N.A. it was successful. Otherwise he failed in South Africa; he failed in India.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are (too faint).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Aurora is very qualified, very important. He was a judge in South Africa. He was an international lawyer. He graduated from Harvard, so many big schools-Oxford, Harvard. I know he wasn't lying. It's true. He held very good position.

Prabhupāda: Is Aurora pleader? Is Aurora pleader, you mean?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that barrister. We have to take very good care to make the gurukula bona fide and genuine. It's really lucky you got that Dr. Sharma. Clearly he's the best. I mean, he's already been principal of big schools.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is accepting. It is for all, even Communist countries. Everyone is accepting our literature, our attempt. That's a fact. And you do not heard about the report in the South Africa. South Africa, the Europeans hate the Indians like anything. Now they're receiving our literature. That means they will now appreciate Indian culture. They'll understand that India has got some substance.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very important point to bring up even with the government.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?'

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Passed stool.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: Nava-yogendra, organize Africa and South Africa. They are also gradually taking. So who is going there?

Brahmānanda: Jayatīrtha.

Prabhupāda: And Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa?

Brahmānanda: No, not Toṣaṇa. In South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Who took me to South Africa?

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Try to bring him back. He is very competent. So jointly organize South Africa, both Europeans, Americans, Africans. Tulasī dāsa is very competent also. United Nations under Caitanya Mahāprabhu's flag, do everywhere. It is possible. Always that is simply a false attempt. This is the real.

Brahmānanda: You said that when you first came to New York. You went to the United Nations. The very first day I came to the kīrtana there in New York. The next day you went for that peace vigil outside the United Nations, and you were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saying that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only method for making United Nations.

Room Conversation Arrival of Jayatirtha and Harikesa -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the news of South Africa?

Jayatīrtha: There were fifteen thousand at our Janmāṣṭamī festival, and we opened our new temple. And all of the community leaders there are very anxious to see our Society increase. Seven Indian devotees have been made.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Jayatīrtha: And the community leaders there are giving us plots of land in different Indian areas and money for building temples. It's a very, very good report from South Africa.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...miserable condition. Without your mercy there is no possibility of escaping the degrading influence of this Kali-yuga. Most merciful lord and master of the devotees, we have no shelter other than your lotus feet. By Kṛṣṇa's grace the most wonderful Janmāṣṭamī celebration was held at the Cato Ridge farm āśrama in South Africa. The celebration included the opening of a new temple and prasādam facility." He sent a lot of pictures, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Amazing pictures.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa-aṣṭamī. Lord Kṛṣṇa's celebration." Full center page. "A voyage of discovery." "A Christian tribute to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." There's a picture of Your Divine Grace here. It's an article reprinted from Back to Godhead. It says, "All material in this special feature taken from Back to Godhead, the official magazine of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." This is all... It seems like what they have done... The same thing they did in Fiji, they have done there in South Africa. Because many of the articles... This is a whole..., also all about our society. All of these pages. "Hare Kṛṣṇa puzzle is unraveled." "Jagannātha car festival is one of the oldest in history." Then it tells about the program, how to get to the farm. Then he sent photographs. It's a very beautiful temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't know if you can see it. This is the temple. You see the white structure here? You can see it has arched domes? Not domes but arches.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see our activities all over the world.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: South Africa. Is it not South Africa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why don't you show them the South African report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...slaughterhouse... (Hindi conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a temple that was built there. We have a big farm there as well as two temples. This is one of the temples.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Where in South Africa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Near Durban.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Near Durban. Ācchā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they had fifteen thousand people attending at the Janmāṣṭamī celebration. Here you see some go-pūjā. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Without culture they're suffering. If you want to mitigate their sufferings, give this Gītā culture. That is my experience. (Hindi) We have sold this Caitanya-caritāmṛta even in Russian countries.