Prabhupāda: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them. Then, after a few minutes, he said, "No. The hell is very dangerous." "How?" "There is no newspaper." "Oh, horrible." (Laughter) Because in your western countries everyone is fond of newspaper. So he stressed, he hit the point, that "There is no newspaper." So we have to hit to the point that there is no tax-man.
Son of God (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They cannot get sufficient food, that is different thing. That is maladministration. Kṛṣṇa has given sufficient food for all the people of the world. Somewhere the foodstuff is being thrown in the sea, and somewhere people are starving. This is want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If a man becomes, if the president becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious president, then he'll think "This foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's. It is not our result. So Kṛṣṇa claims all living entities as His sons. So we are sons of God, and the Indians or other poverty-stricken countries, they are also sons of God. So if we have got enough, why not send there?" Why you are putting the foodstuff, which no human being can produce, you are throwing it in the water. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness education is greatly needed for human society. Do you follow, Guru dāsa?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And Kṛṣṇa says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa (CC Madhya 13.80). So if anyone loves Kṛṣṇa, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Kṛṣṇa. If he says, "Why shall I love Kṛṣṇa? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Kṛṣṇa, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa.
Yoko Ono: Yeah, it depends on sincerity.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Lord Jesus says that he is son of God. He's son of God.
Yamunā: Your cab's here, Śyāmasundara. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is that? You want to hear? Come on, sit down. So there is no difference. Lord Jesus Christ says that he is son of God. So there is no quarrel between God and God's son. So he says that "Love God," and Kṛṣṇa says, "Love Me." The same thing. (laughs) If you say that "You love me," and your wife says that "Love my husband," there is no difference of opinion.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Sister Mary: We say Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: But Jesus Christ never said that He is God. He said "Son of God." We have no objection to chant the name, holy name of Jesus Christ. We have no objection. But we are preaching that "Chant the holy name of God." If you haven't got any name of God, then you chant our conception of name of God, Kṛṣṇa. We don't say Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. We also do the same thing. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Sister Mary: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."
Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the wording?
Sister Mary: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."
Prabhupāda: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God..."
Revatīnandana: "Have mercy on us."
Sister Mary: It's a little prayer.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Haṁsadūta: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us." That is the prayer.
Sister Mary: And you say it in your own language.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. "Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, have mercy on us." That's nice. Very good.
Sister Mary: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is nice. Now, the, by praying, it is expected that one should have mercy of God. So what is the test that he has got the mercy of God?
Sister Mary: The mercy of God is the love of God, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: That's it. Mercy of... So... That is the test, that he has learned how to love God. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also worshiped, that "You can give love of God." Kṛṣṇa prema-pradāya te. Namo mahā-vadānyāya. "You are the most munificent of all incarnations because You are distributing love of God." Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne. "You are Kṛṣṇa in the form of devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So I offer my respects." This is Rūpa Gosvāmī's prayer.
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. God and God's name, and God or God's son, they are nondifferent. So either I be in touch with God's son or God's name, I am in touch with God. But they are nondifferent.
Sister Mary: What happens to your mind? What do you do with your mind when you chant?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be in my mind, it doesn't matter. My mind may be different.
Sister Mary: Where does it have to be? It has to be fixed?
Revatīnandana: What will the mind be doing?
Haṁsadūta: While chanting.
Revatīnandana: What should the mind be doing?
Prabhupāda: There is enough provisions. But we have made artificial divisions. "This is America." The Americans, they went from Europe, and they illegally occupied that place. Now they won't allow anyone to come there. Similarly, the Australians, they won't allow to come there. New Zealand, Africa. Why? Our philosophy: Everything belongs to God, and we are all sons of God. Everyone has got the right to live at the cost of God. This is our philosophy.
Journalist (1): But the values of Western civilization have made that...
Prabhupāda: Western civilization created artificial. "This is Africa, this is America, this is Europe..."
Journalist (1): Yes. Therefore that's made living as children of God impossible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts—everyone.
Prabhupāda: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. For weeks they prepare. And the competition is the more items the temple prepares, he becomes... (break) And distribution, prasāda distribution, free of charges. It was a very nice system that nobody should remain hungry. That is the system. If there is any temple in any neighborhood, in that neighborhood nobody should remain hungry. The Vedic system is that in your house, a householder shall see that even a lizard in the house is not hungry. He must also be given food. Even there is a snake—nobody likes snake—but a Vedic householder has to call the snake and give him food. He also may not remain hungry. This is the... And these things will be explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that anything, wherever it is, on land, on the air, sky, within the water, everywhere, God's kingdom; and all living entities, they are God's sons. So everyone has got the right to take advantage of his father's property. This is Bhāgavata communism.
Prabhupāda: So, religion, very simple—I am talking with that man over there—religion means the laws of God. Simple definition. And one who follows the laws of God, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is Christian, whether he is Hindu, whether he is Muslim. It doesn't matter. Take, for example, your Christian religion. Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shalt not kill", but I think cent percent of the Christian people, they are very much engaged in killing. So there are, I mean, disobeying the laws of God. Don't you think? What is..., what is the value? And if you disobey the laws of God, then what is your religion? It is simply show. God says, or God's representative, God's son, Jesus Christ says, that "Thou shalt not kill," but the whole Christian world, the killing art is very much favored. Maintaining slaughterhouse, shooting in sports, and creating (indistinct), and so many things, simply killing. And any film shown, when it is killing film as is very much popular. Shooting film is very popular. I see in your park the soldiers killing. This, this park I was passing. What is that park?
Prabhupāda: So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand the nature of God, that he is the supreme father. Is there any objection? God is the supreme father. I think in Christian religion also they accept. Is it not? Now, the supreme father says that all living entities, not only these human being or the civilized human being but even the animals, the trees, plants, the insects, birds, beasts, fishes or other aquatics—any living entity, even a small insect. Living entity means who has got that vital force of moving. Some of them are not moving also, just like trees. They do not move, but still they are living entity. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that all living entities, irrespective of bodily feature, they are sons of God. What do you think of this conception?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore they become criminals. They are suffering. Encroaching upon God's property and therefore they are suffering. All these things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything belongs to God, and because we are sons of God, we can use the father's property. But not more than what I require. Just like in a family everything is father's property, and if you eat more, all the good things in the family, that is not allowed. You must take what the mother or the father gives you. That is your business. Similarly everything is God's property. Everyone, even the birds, beasts, everyone has right to use the father's property. Just like the birds. They will use. Just like they are picking up the small fishes. So as much they require, they are allowed, "Take it." But they are not making any stock for speculation. Man does that. As soon as there is some good harvest, ah, immediately they... (break)... problem. If everyone only takes as much he requires, there is no problem in the world. But he wants to take more. Just like you Americans, you have covered so many thousands of miles. And you don't allow anyone. "No, you cannot enter. Here is gun." What is this nonsense? It is God's property. Why do you disallow others. Let them come.
Prabhupāda: ...recently I've heard that the people in the airport protested against Indira Gandhi, that "Give us rain." Yes. That is Vedic civilization ideal. Why there is rain then no rain? The king should be responsible. One brāhmaṇa lost his son. He immediately went to the king and asked him that "The son has died before the death of the father; why this irregularity? You are responsible." You see? The ideal is that the king is representative of God, because we are all sons of God. We have come here in this material world for our proper guidance. The king is responsible, the spiritual master is responsible, the father is responsible, the elderly persons are responsible. Because you told me that we have to work for other. That other is Kṛṣṇa. If we utilize our intelligence for serving Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of the king or the spiritual master or the father, then the society is perfect. That is ideal civilization. What is your opinion about this? How do you think this ideal...
Prabhupāda: The same relationship. We are all sons of God. Therefore, simultaneously, we are one and different. As son, the ingredient, the same. But he is father, we are son, we are different. This is called the philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda. Bheda means different, and abheda means one. So simultaneously one and different.
Mr. Wadell: May I ask you another question, which is, I have a mortal father, a man, who you know my parents, father and mother. Do you think that my father is in any way different in his parentage of me from God in His parentage of me.
Prabhupāda: No, everyone. Not only your father, your grandfather, your, or grandson, the same relationship: simultaneously one and different... Because we are spirit soul and God is the supreme soul. All the souls have come, emanated from Him. He is the supreme soul and Paramātmā. The exact word used in the Vedic language, Paramātmā, Parabrahma, Parameśvara. This word param. Param means supreme.
Revatīnandana: You won't get any good information about God. "God is great. God created"—finished. That's not very much information. God's son? A little more information about God's son.
Student (1): But you've got no more right to say you know who is God than they have.
Revatīnandana: Oh, well, we have a lot more information about God, you see.
Student: In which way?
Revatīnandana: In these Vedas. There's a difference between the arithmetic book you get in the first grade of school and the calculus book in terms of the amount of information. We can tell you more about God because the Vedas give more information than the Bible. But the basic principle—"God is there. God is a person"—is in both places.
Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is son of God. Therefore God must be person. A person can beget a son.
Prabhupāda: ...why not they? National. National means a living entity born in particular country. So at the present moment, the national means only human being. The animals are not nationals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. So this kind of sinful activities are going on. Therefore renunciation means to give up these sinful activities. That is real renunciation. Otherwise, you cannot renounce anything. You have to live. And that is allowed at the cost of God. Everything belongs to God. You are son of God. So you live. But don't encroach... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is the instruction of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So you have got the right to enjoy what is allotted for you. Don't encroach upon others' right. This is renunciation. But they are encroaching upon others' right. Especially the human society. And that is the cause of all troubles. Because they have no God consciousness, they have no sense about God, and there is no sense about next life... What is your opinion about life after death?
Lord Brockway: And the great moments of inspiration are those rare moments when you feel you belong to all of life, from the beginning of time, now, everywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, our preaching is also on that point, that God is one, and we are all sons of God. Call our paṇḍita. In the... I think you have read Bhagavad-gītā.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There it is stated
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
Lord Kṛṣṇa says that there are different species of life, yoni. According to Padma Purāṇa there are eight million, four hundred thousand species of different forms of life. So Kṛṣṇa claims that "All these living entities, in different forms of life, I am the seed-giving father of all of them, and the material nature is the mother." Just like father impregnates with the seed, and the mother gives the body, similarly God impregnates material nature with all kinds of living entities, not in different forms, but the original seed. And according to one's karma, he comes out in different types of bodies. The body is given by material nature, and the life is given by God. This is the sum and substance.
Prabhupāda: The body is given by material nature, and the life is given by God. This is the sum and substance. And therefore God is one, and He's the father of everyone. As such, without the center point, God consciousness, we cannot substantiate the ideas of universal brotherhood. Because if the center is missing, then how we can think of universal brotherhood? If we accept God is the center point, father, then I can understand you are my brother. Because you are also son of God; I am also son of God. But I am missing the father, then we miss also our mutual relationship. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he does not make any distinction between a tree or a man or animal or a brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla because he sees that within the body there is the soul, and the soul is spirit, part and parcel of God. That is his vision. You can take Bhagavad-gītā and... Read the Sixteenth Chapter. So at the present moment, the world is missing God, or they are rejecting, demonic. There are two classes of men always. One is called devatā, godly, and the other is called demon, asura. Or satanic. Whatever you call, the two classes.
Lord Brockway: ...I would like to ask. I do not belong to any church. I'm attracted to eastern religions and the Hindu religion because they are pantheist, they have a sense of belonging to everyone and everything in all time, and because of that spiritual feeling, service to all. And I find that better than church theology because church theology is so often thinking entirely of personal salvation rather than service to all. And for those reasons I'm attracted to eastern religions. I think the second comment I would make is this, that you have said that if the world is to move towards brotherhood it must be by a recognition of the fatherhood of God, and that all men are the sons of God.
Prabhupāda: Not only men, all living entities.
Lord Brockway: Oh, yes, I mean men in the human aspect. Men and women are the sons and daughters, the children of God. I would say two things about that, that I think that those who sincerely have that conviction can be inspired to serve the coming of the brotherhood of mankind, but in experience I would not limit it to those who have that experience.
Prabhupāda: But Jesus said that he's son of God. So we say Kṛṣṇa is God. So what is the conflict? God must have a son, one or two? So he's also the son. Where is conflict? (everyone laughs).
Reporter: No conflict.
Woman: I am not sure, I think people might think there was a conflict. I mean...
Prabhupāda: Conflict is there when you disobey Christ. That's why Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." All the Christians are simply killing. Where is a Christian? There is conflict. They'll support: this killing is this, this isn't that, this isn't that (?). They want to kill. That's all. That is conflict. If you actually follow the tenets of Christianity, there is no conflict. But if you do not follow, at the same time you say you are not Christian, there is conflict. It is clearly stated—I've asked so many Christians—that "Why do you kill?" Christ said "Thou shalt not kill."
Prabhupāda: Everything, I have explained. Now our socialist idea is: God is the father of all living beings. And whatever there is on the surface of the globe, on the sea, on the sky, everything belongs to God. And all the sons of God has equal right to enjoy it. But nobody... (aside:) He is finished? But nobody is allowed to take more than he requires. If one takes more than he requires, he's to be punished. This is our socialist idea. As we think all living entities sons of God, therefore even a lizard in my room should not starve.
Bhagavān: He should not starve is the point.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power.
Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment.
Yogeśvara: She's asking... This is a French nun, and she wishes to know whether for us Christ is the son of God or is He God Himself or what is the identity of Lord Jesus Christ?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ says that he's son of God. That's all right. We accept.
Yogeśvara: (translates French throughout) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ordinary son. And he's powerful son.
Yogeśvara: ...question. She asks what is the difference between our understanding of reincarnation and the Christian concept of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christ said he would come again. Is there a difference? Is it the same thing?
Prabhupāda: I don't find anything.
Yogeśvara: There was this gentleman this afternoon who was asking you about people who are constantly, constantly being tested by all kinds of miserable circumstances. She asks: Is it not a sign of a soul that God has chosen to favor that he sends them such miserable conditions of material life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, in miserable condition, they accept it as a favor of God. (break) ...in the Bhāgavata:
Prabhupāda: So similarly, we are trying to achieve some goal of life, every one of us—there are so many varieties of living entities—with the risk of life and death, old age and disease. But if we know what is our actual aim of life... The actual aim of life should be back to home, back to Godhead. Then this human form of life is successful. Just like your son. If he goes out independent. Now he is under father's protection, he is very happy. But if he declares his independence... Just like Śyāmasundara. He is very rich man's son. His father, I met him. His father is a big lawyer, big businessman. But he declared independence. And I know his life history, how much he had to go through so many tribulations. Similarly, we are also sons of God. We have declared independence and we are going through so many chapters of life and death in different... Now we have got... Suppose you have got now a nice Englishman's body but next body you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your karma and desire.
Graham Hill: (indistinct) what sort of body we have been in in the past?
Prabhupāda: Because you are part and parcel of God. God is all spirit. Just like materially, because you have got white body your son has got white body. Similarly, God is all spirit. Therefore you are son of God, part and parcel of God, then you are all spirit. But you have got this material covering because you wanted to come here and enjoy or lord it over the material nature. Everyone is trying to that. Everyone is trying to become a very prominent man in this material world. That is he can lord it over the material nature. So because you desire to lord it over the material nature you have to accept a material body.
Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...
Prabhupāda: Yes, ...that's nice. Yes. So he sometimes becomes disobedient? Sometimes? Eh? Why? (laughs) That means you have got independence. Is it not? Yes. That means he has got independence. Yes. This is a fact. Similarly we are sons of God, we have got little independence. We may remain with God, we may give up His company and come here to find our own fortune. And to find our own fortune we are becoming implicated and taking birth in different species of life. That is our ignorance. You are obedient to your mother?
Girl: Sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes, not always.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.
Guest (1): Now, because I am only versed in the Western sense of the old and new Testament, I understand that Christ is coming again at the end of this non-believing age in the world. Does that coincide with the son of God that you understand or is that a different sort of coming?
Prabhupāda: No,...
Haṁsadūta: Actually in the Bible there's, someone mentions there the description that the Lord will come and He will ride on a white steed, on a white horse. And at that time he will kill all the nondevotee people. It's also in the Bible.
Guest (1): Yes.
Guest (1): Yes. That, in some way, to me at this moment, it seems to be an echo of the Old Testament prophetic promises of the end of the last age and also the revelation in the New Testament. Can this be the son of God revealing Himself to the East and the West in different forms but the same personality? I'm presuming that...
Haṁsadūta: God is meant for everybody. Doesn't matter East or West. Just like Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, but we are not Indians. We are all Americans and Europeans, so... Just like the sun. The sun may appear over London or England, but it's not English sun. Everyone's sun. Similarly, when God appears or God's representative appears, it's meant for everyone.
Guest (1): Yes. So, forgive me if I talk across you, please, won't you.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, yes.
Guest (1): Yes. So now, thinking on the terms that you have just quoted me, if I as a Jew, as a born Jew, seeing also with Christian conviction that according to the Old and New Testament, this Christ will come again in a latter day, and as a Jew particularly I was taught to believe that He's coming to save the Jews in their land when they're besieged.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Jesus, the son of God, he's representative of God. So we have got all respect and honor for him. We worship him. But I do not know what is about Jesus Movement.
Reporter (1): Tell me a little bit about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will you?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the same, Bhagavad-gītā as it is, which was spoken five thousand years ago by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, we are preaching the same Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is accepted, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we are preaching that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa."
Reporter (1): Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness genuine?
Indian Woman: But, Guru Mahārāja, if one has some original faith in Jesus Christ or Muhammad, would he...? They think they're sons of God or a messenger of God.
Prabhupāda: No, Jesus Christ says "I am son of God." He never says, "I am God."
Indian Woman: So if they follow Jesus Christ...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Son of God is as good as God. That is another thing. We have no objection. Suppose in a big office, the father is there, the son is there. And the son has ordered something. The father will never say that "Don't do it." Because father and son, the same position. That is another thing.
Guest (1): But he is not Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): He is not Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: He's son of Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Guest (2): Now, if we take another example.
Prabhupāda: Why? If they are actually theologians, why they should not hear? Jesus Christ says that he's the son of God. But why not of the father. And what is this?
Karandhara: They make reference to one... He supposedly said that he was the only way, that no man could come to God the father except through Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so we accept the only way. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa. Take Bible, yes.
Prajāpati: But they will quote a reference in the Bible that says, "No other book."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, don't accept no other book. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, wonderful.
Prabhupāda: ...he's son of God, we... (break)
Prajāpati: Many of the men who founded this country were very pious, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prajāpati: Some of the founding fathers of the country were very pious because...
Prabhupāda: You are still pious. Otherwise, how you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? You are still pious, but you are misguided. Your, your nation is very good. I like the American nation. Simply little reformation required. Now just, for example, this "In God we trust." This is very nice example. Now, they do not know what is God, how to trust. That is, that has to be done. That has to be learned.
Prajāpati: Trust means to depend completely upon God?
Prabhupāda: So you are gentlemen. You have got a different dress. I have got a different dress. He has got a different dress. That does not mean we are not human being because we have got a different dress. Similarly, all living entities—there are eight-million, four hundred thousands forms—they are all sons of God. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So they have got different dresses only. But because they have got different dresses, they are not different from me. This is God consciousness. So therefore, when one is God conscious, how he can kill another animal? He knows that "If I am killed, I feel pains and pleasure, pains, then why shall I kill him? And he's also son of God. I am also son of God. So God, how He can allow to kill another son?" Suppose a father has got ten sons. One is useless, cannot earn anything. If the earning son says, "Father, he is useless, let him... Let me kill him," the father will agree? No. Father is kind to everyone. So similarly, when one is God conscious, if he kills animal, that means he has no sense of God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Sinful means, generally, what is against the law of God. That is sinful. Just like what is criminal? Any action which is against the law of the state, that is criminal. Similarly, sinful means what is against the law of God. That is sinful. But you do not know what is God. You do not know what is the law of God. Therefore you do not know what is sin. That you have to learn from us. It is all due to ignorance. Now God says, "I am the father of all living entities." So this is quite reasonable. If there is God... So... And it is stated in the Vedic literature, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief eternal. So we are all sons of God. What we are? Simply human being? No. In the Bhagavad, sarva-yoniṣu: "In all species of life, as many forms are there, I am the bīja-pradaḥ-pitā." So everyone is your brother. So suppose if you want to cut throat of your brother, will your father be happy?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means he's first-class, but he comes to the second-class platform or third-class platform to teach the third-class, second-class person. He's first class. Son of God cannot be second-class or third-class. He must be first-class. But... Just like Lord Buddha. He's God Himself, but He said nothing about God because he knew that "These rascals, they will not be able to... Let them stop meat-eating, that's all. Let them become sinless first of all; then they will be able..." So his main preaching was ahiṁsā, non-violence, no meat-eating. But still, they violate that. Jesus Christ also preached, "Thou shall not kill," but these rascals, all violating. And still, they are proclaiming as Christian and Buddhist. No religion will, real religion, will allow this kind of violence, no religion. It is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ kaitavaḥ: Any religion committing unnecessary violence to the animals, (it is) third-class. It is not religion, it is cheating. Simply cheating.
Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father. There is, in the jungle of Africa elephants. They are eating at a time hundred kilos. The father is providing. And the ant, a small ant, is eating one grain of sugar. He is providing. Within the hole of your room there are millions of ants. The father is providing food for them. That is God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one is providing all necessities of life to everyone, all living entities. That is God. So if I know God, then I can know also that all of them are sons of God and God is providing all their necessities of life. What right I have got to kill them?
Prabhupāda: Then why Christ recommend, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this. Thou shall not..."? They are all false thing? Now let us talk of knowledge. We have talked so many outside knowledge. What is the real knowledge? The real knowledge is that everything is the property of God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). No land belongs either to the Americans or to the Swiss people or to the Indian people or to German people. No. Everything belongs to God. And all living entities are the sons of God. So everything produced out of God's land, either on the land or in the sky or anywhere, it is God's property, and all the sons, they have the right to share. So there is no scarcity in the God's kingdom. Simply due to our mismanagement we have created so much trouble. If we accept God as the center and all living entities sons of God, then we can actually live very peacefully in God consciousness. Therefore this is the recommendation, how we can live very peacefully, all of us, both men and animal and everyone. That is said here. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Read it.
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, and Christ is son of God. We don't find any difference between the son and the father.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he thinks, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he says, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Well, Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is the same thing. It is external. Kṛṣṇa... Somebody says Kṛṣṇa is avatāra of Viṣṇu, and we say that Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Now, this example I have already given. Just like one candle. The another, ignite another candle, ignite another candle... Now, all these candles, so far light-giving power the same. But you can call, "This is first candle. This is second candle." And if you say the second candle is first candle, so there is no trouble because the candle power is the same.
Prabhupāda: Guru means the representative of God. Just like Christ is son of God, guru is also son of God. So there is no much difference because they will say the same thing, that "You are suffering in this material world on account of material entanglement. So you give up this business. Come back to home, back to Godhead." So this is the real message. This message is given by God, by His son, by His servant. The message is the same. If one does not give this message he is neither guru, nor son, nothing of the sort.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: What interests them is the underlying nature of our spiritual practice as opposed to theirs. For example, for them spiritual life is the prayer, salvation in Lord Jesus Christ. And they're not quite sure... They're interested in knowing what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Is it the same or...
Prabhupāda: That's all. Now either you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa or Jesus does not matter. It is same thing. But this is the process. "Engage your mind in Me." Then?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: So we are teaching this, that engage your mind to God or the son of god; it doesn't matter. But your mind should be godly engaged. That's all. That is meditation. That is real meditation: "Always think of Me." And in another place, in Sixth Chapter, you see,
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
"The first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me." So it doesn't matter you are Christian, I am Hindu. The real point is that think of God or God's representative always. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: Very good idea. Therefore I said Jesus Christ is son of God, so what he says and what Kṛṣṇa says, there is no difference. This has become a hackneyed slogan, "poor feeding." To do to the humanity—and cut the throat of the animal. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy? They have no conception of God. If he has got conception of God, then everyone—paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Oh, why for the benefit of the human being, other animals' throat should be cut? Even they have no common sense. National. National means one who is born in that land. That is national. So why the animals born in that land, they are not national?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So he's different from the Father.
Prabhupāda: Even not different. But he says that he's son of God. We accept it. Why there are so many religions? If religion means acceptance of God, then here is God. Then make one religion. Why so many different religions?
Guru-gaurāṅga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.
Prabhupāda: Every month. Different sect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think Bible is on the personal understanding of God. Christ says that he is son of God. Unless one is person, how he can beget a son?
Devotee: They talk about the trilogy—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is compared like the Father...
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman, yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11), it is the same idea. Brahman, Holy Ghost, is impersonal, but Son is person and God is also person. I do not know much about, but I have heard from Christians that there is assembly of God, and Lord Christ has got a seat by the side of God. Is not that explained?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jyotirmayī: God has no name in Christianity, but the son of God has a name. And before they use for a long time, and everywhere they were saying the name of Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: But they say that in Christianity there is a name of God. They say. No?
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: But you said that His name be glorified.
Devotee: They say "Hallowed be Thy name."
Prabhupāda: No. If Jesus is the name of God, then you can chant. If Jesus is the name of God. But Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, says that he is son of God. Of course, there is no difference between son and the father. That is another thing. But still, if I want the father, how by calling the name of son I can get the father? That is also another thing.
Priest: Yeah, but I mean, this is another point.
Prabhupāda: But if you have got the father's name, why should you call Him by the son's name?
Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.
Karandhara: The point he's making, Prabhupāda, is that...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: What he's saying is that outwardly, they all profess allegiance to Jesus, but they, it's seen that they disagree with one another on many points. They have diversified opinions about what Jesus meant about this and what does life signify.
Yogeśvara: And therefore, for him, he doesn't even consider that question, whether Christ is the son of God, whether he's not the son of God. For him, it's a secondary problem.
Prabhupāda: Now, now, what is his problem. That he did never disclose.
Yogeśvara: Well, he says the problem is the art of living, what is the best way to live.
Prabhupāda: So he has got his opinion. I have got my own opinion. How we'll agree? We say that you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything will be solved. Does he agree? (French)
Prabhupāda: Christians, they cannot say that God is impersonal. (French) Because, because Christ is son of God. So the son is person. How the Father can be imperson? And in the Bible it is said, "There was word in the beginning." That is God's word. So if one has a word, then He's a person. Word comes from the tongue and mouth. As soon as there is word, background is tongue and mouth. And then... The Christians pray in the church, "Oh, God, give us our daily bread." So God has got ear so that He will hear and supply. But His personality, His word, His hearing, they're all transcendental, nonmaterial. (French)
Yogeśvara: For example, in that chapter, it also says that the word of God became flesh and that flesh was the son of God, Lord Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: But that means Jesus Christ is transcendental, not of this material world. (French)
Yogeśvara: They say... They accept... They think that Lord Jesus, however, was a human being. He was spiritual, but also he was part of this material world.
Prabhupāda: No, material world is part of Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ is not part of material world. (French)
Prabhupāda: You cannot explain whimsically. You cannot explain whimsically. If Jesus Christ is son of God, he has... That means he has got spiritual body. You...
French Woman: Yes, we accept that he got the has got spiritual body, but we say that he assumed also a material body.
Prabhupāda: Now, then, then, another thing is: you accept Jesus Christ the only son of God, is it not? So when you pray in the church, you address God, "Oh Father." Then why "only son"?
French Woman: We say that the son is...
Prabhupāda: So therefore these sons' body and Jesus's body cannot be equal. So adopted son has got material body, not the real son. (French)
Yogeśvara: Their idea is that: Yes, of course, Lord Jesus, being the son of God, his body is spiritual, but because he wanted to take part in the life of the human beings on earth, he actually accepted a material body just to live among men.
Prabhupāda: Why he should accept?
French Woman: But we have a vesper that says that he was died, that he was suffering, and things which show that...
Prabhupāda: But his death... You think that he was died, but he resurrected.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.
Professor Durckheim: In my work I always feel the great difficulty again and again. That is also there. It's a great difference to believe that you are the son of God and to feel it and to experience it. As long it's only a belief, it's well meaning doing. How to prepare the conditions by which disciples might feel it? That's all of my daily work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like... It is very simple thing. Just like if I say... Suppose you have not seen your father. You are posthumous child. But you must believe that there is father. Without father there is no possibility of my existence. That is belief. And in the Christian...
Professor Durckheim: It is one of the great phrases of the Gospel of St. John which the church forgot, that Christ always says, "I am the son of God, and you are my brother. You are sons of God just as I am."
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they do not agree now. Just see. Everyone is son. Now we say that... The Christians, so-called Christians, are so ignorant, as soon as you say, "Everyone is son," they rebel, "No. Christ is the only son." And you say that Christ said that "I am the son, and you are also sons." This is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says that "All living entities are My sons." That is the fact. He is the supreme father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ. Read that śloka.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect. Then my experience is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this. he asks his father, "What is this, father?" Father says, "My dear child, it is microphone." The child knows it, "microphone?" That knowledge is perfect, although his capacity is imperfect. A child is imperfect, but because he gets the knowledge from the perfect father who knows what it is, when he speaks "a microphone," he speaks rightly. This is perfect process of knowledge: You approach the perfect person and get knowledge, and that is your perfect experience. Personally, I may be, you may be, not perfect. But because I get the knowledge from the perfect, my knowledge is perfect. This is our process. We are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Or you get knowledge from Jesus Christ, that is also perfect, because source is perfect. I am taking knowledge from God and you are taking the knowledge from the son of God who has come directly from him, the same.
Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I think that Christ, (German)
German devotee: He says that Jesus as the son of God has revealed the name of God, yes, and his opinion is that we call name of God... The name of God is Christ.
Prabhupāda: The name of God is Christ. That Christ is another form of pronouncing Kṛṣṭa. And Kṛṣṭa is another form of pronouncing Kṛṣṇa. Therefore God's name is Kṛṣṇa. So Christ said to glorify the name of God, but somebody says in Christian that there is no name of God. Why?
Pater Emmanuel: We have name of God.
Prabhupāda: No, "Father..." Just like your son may call you, "Father," but you have got a name also, "Mr. such and such." My son, your son, everyone's son calls his father, "father." But the father has a name also. Similarly, God is the general name, but still, He has got a particular name. And that name is Kṛṣṇa. And that is accepted by Jesus. Jesus the Christ or Jesus the son of Christ or Kṛṣṇa. And he identified himself as the son of God. Therefore the name of God is... Either you call Kṛṣṭa or Kṛṣṇa or Christo, it doesn't matter. The name of God is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṭa.
Pater Emmanuel: Yes, when we can't speak of a name of God, of a proper name... (German)
German devotee: He says that when we speak of a real name of God, that is Christos.
Prabhupāda: This Christos means Kṛṣṇa. (German)
Pater Emmanuel: Because a name is of God. We know the name of God only by revelation, by revelation of the son of God because the son of God is also God. He has the three personality: God, father, son and holy ghost. And the son has revealed the name of father, and His name is, who has revealed is Christos, Christ. And also you can as a name or all you take Christ, Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: We, we respect him as transcendental representative of God, son of God. Yes. He's...
Reverend Powell: Is there some sort of relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I mean...
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is relationship. He's coming from Kṛṣṇa. He... Jesus the Christ. Christ means Christo or Kristo or Kṛṣṇa.
Reverend Powell: Yes? Hm. Another thing. We, of course, have been impressed by the number of young Australians who have become interested in the Hare Krishna Movement and we really congratulate you, sir, on the very fine work (Prabhupāda chuckles) that you've done, and the ones who have rescued the ladies from the fire the other day. But I think everybody recognizes that they're most sincere, that they're not involved because they're not being blessed. They feel they're getting something out of it. But how do you explain... I gather that most countries, in Britain and America and so on that there are many thousands...
Prabhupāda: In Africa. In China, in Japan. Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Now, let us finish one. Jesus Christ himself said that he is son of God. That's all right. That's all right.
Guest (2): But if you take a drop of water and you merge it back into an ocean... This is an example that is often given by these masters, that if you take a drop of water and you put it into an ocean, that drop becomes one with that ocean.
Prabhupāda: The drop of water becomes ocean?
Guest (2): No, but it becomes merged in that ocean.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Merging is different. But the ocean remains the ocean.
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: And you remain the drop. That's all. Because... Now, suppose your body, material body—earth, water, air, fire—now, when this body will be decomposed, so this form will not remain. Does it mean that your body has become the whole universal material elements?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So nobody knows Bible here? I am not very much conversant with Bible. But so far I know that Christ says that "I am the son of God." We can understand. So is there any difference? God says or Christ says that "I am the son of God." So the father is different. The father can say "I am," and the son also can say, "I am," but everyone is "I." But what is the relation between this "I" and that "I." That is wanted to know.
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): I am a particle of God.
Prabhupāda: That is this. Therefore I am particle; He is whole. Therefore difference. When God says, "I am," and I say, "I am," there is difference. I am particle "I am," and He is whole "I am." (laughter) Another, a millionaire says, "I am," and his servant says, "I am," but both the "I's" are same? So God is great. He says, "I am." He is great "I am." And I say, "I am." I am small "I am." Therefore this "I am" and that "I am" is different. This "I am," when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," this "I am" and this "I am" is different. So not always I am the same.
Prabhupāda: No? What is this? (laughter) That is your conception. It is not Bible's conception. Bible says the son of God is Christ. You can create by mental concoction anything, but if you refer to the Bible, the name is Christ. Everyone says, all Christians says, all Christians says, "the Jesus Christ." Why do you deny it?
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Māyāvāda. She says that everyone has the Christ within him.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't agree with all these things.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): If we agree with Buddhist consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, no, whatever consciousness may be, I say that in the Bible it is said that son of God is Christ. His name is Christ. How you can deny the name? No, no, that is their interpretation, "Christ means 'I am.' " They want to interpret in their own way. There is name. How can you deny it?
Guest (4): Did Jesus say that he is God? Jesus isn't the name of God. He said, "Son of God, son of man."
Guest (3): No, he said God. There's three places that Jesus said he's God, in Hebrews and John, and two places in...
Guest (5): "I and the father are one," is in John.
Guest (4): Oh, the father and the son is one. Of course it is one. So are we, because we are all children of God. God must be in us, otherwise we couldn't exist.
Guest (3): Of course.
Guest (4): I am not denying anything, but I'm saying that the meaning might be, that "God and Jesus is one," is in a similar way that I and God is one.
Prabhupāda: That is fact. That is fact.
Guest (3): Well, again it depends upon the belief of each individual.
Prabhupāda: No, Jesus is described as son of God. Do you deny that?
Guest (3): Definitely, he is definitely son of God just as you and I are. But at the same time, as Christians... Of course it's a matter of belief.
Prabhupāda: That means he's son of God, is it not?
Professor Fenton: Yes, but I personally am not that orthodox. That is the orthodox teaching.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Teaching must be orthodox, otherwise what is the value? If the teaching changes, that is not very good.
Professor Fenton: Well, it may be that it changed in the early history of Christianity through Greek influence on its Jewish background.
Prabhupāda: It is changing now also, they are so... Change is of the material world, in the spiritual world there is no change, absolute. In the relative world there is change. So our definition of religion is little different from the worldly definition. Our definition... "Our" means there should be the real definition: religion means the laws which are given by God.
Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Muhammad?
Yoga student: He presented himself as a man, as considered by Muslims as the perfect man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: The disciple of God.
Yoga student: And he was the perfect expression of the divine manifestation in human terms. He was not a divine figure as Christ or Kṛṣṇa. He was simply a man, and who was the mouthpiece of the divine word.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Allah akbar?
Yoga student: It means God, the greatest.
Prabhupāda: Greatest.
Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Mohammed?
Guest: He presented himself as a man, was considered by Muslims to be the perfect man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: And ah, he was the perfect expression of the divine manifestation in human terms. He was not a divine figure as Christ or Kṛṣṇa. He was a, ah, simply a man, and ah, he was the mouthpiece of the ah, divine word.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Allah?
Guest: It means God, the greatest.
Prabhupāda: Greatest.
Trivikrama: Their point is... Well, one of their points is that if Christ was actually the son of God, why didn't he talk about Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Trivikrama: If Christ was the son of God, the good son, how is that he didn't, he never mentioned Kṛṣṇa by name? Sometimes they criticize us like that: "Why is there no mention of Kṛṣṇa in the Christian Bible?"
Prabhupāda: He might not have mentioned, but why there are twelve names in the Bible?
Pañcadraviḍa: That's Old Testament. That's not Christ...
Prabhupāda: The name is there.
Acyutānanda: And Christ, Prabhupāda has...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are sons. Although you are insignificant, you are God's sons. So He likes to talk with His sons. Just like a small child. Everyone knows that he cannot talk. Still, father tries to make him talking, to enjoy. Māyāpur-candrodaya Temple is teaching all these fools and rascals how to talk with God. That is our mission. (break)
Devotee: ...citizens in the state are punished by the government by being put into the prison house and that similarly, in this human form of life, if we are irresponsible, then we are punished by God by birth and death. So what about the man who is responsible for his family and executes his duty ni...
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Cats and dogs have also responsible for the family. What is credit for him?
Devotee: Well, what actually is responsibility?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) "No, no, Jesus Christ is son of God. He was... (break) If you don't worship him, you will go to hell." So they enquired, "What is that hell?" He began to... "It is very dark and moist and so on, so on..." They did not reply because they are working in the mine. So this is the position. This is the position. People are kept in so much darkness, they do not know what is hell, what is heaven, what is God, what is misery. They do not mind. They are accustomed to all these things. There is another story like that, a Bengali story. One man said, "Oh, you are drinking, you will go to hell." So he explained what is hell: "It is a miserable life." "My father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "And my mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go." In this way whole, the family. "Then where it is hell? It is heaven. Because the father is there, mother is there, brother is there. Everyone, we are going... So where is hell?" This is the... "Even in hell, if we are all there, then where it is hell? It is heaven."
Paramahaṁsa: People don't mind so much suffering if they can suffer with their friends.
Prabhupāda: God, God and His love towards us... Because we are sons of God, therefore Father has natural love for sons, therefore God comes. God sends His son or representative to canvass that "You come to God, you'll be happy there."
Jesuit: Who was the son He sent?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Just like Jesus, we say "son of God." So...
Jesuit: That's the second person made man, become human, becomes a man.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is very important, but He is son, a very important son. Just like father may have many sons, but one of them may be very important, very good assistant to the father so Christ is like that. He is son of God, very important, He's helping God coming down to reclaim these fallen souls that "Come to God, why you are suffering here?" Son, He's very faithful and important son. But the others, they are also sons, but they have forgotten God.
Prabhupāda: Similarly if the son of God has body, the God must have body.
Guest: Not necessarily.
Prabhupāda: Why? Can you show any example, a son is born from without body?
Jesuit: That is on a very human level which...
Prabhupāda: Anyway that your experience is on the human field, you have to give some example that "Here is no body but the sun has body." Show me the example.
Jesuit: You can have a man who has a thing in what we would call super-eminence and he has it on a higher form...
Prabhupāda: Higher form maybe, but there is form.
Jesuit: You take a musician like Beethoven, a musician...
Prabhupāda: We also say that the God has got form but not form like this.
Prabhupāda: Now you have got the United Nations. Now, if they are sane men, they should pass resolution, "The whole world belongs to God, and we are all God's sons. So let us make now United States of the World." That can be easily done. If they can make United States of America, why not United States of the whole world?
Guest 2: I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, all problems. Now, suppose in India there is scarcity of foodstuff. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift—we are all sons—very nicely. Then the, all the problems solved. Now the difficulty is that we have made, "No, this is my property. We shall use it, nation." In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such conception. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national.
Guest 1: You're thinking more of an international world than a national world.
Guest (1): Sure. That's right. I understand that, and, you know, I'm very broad-minded. I always have said... You know, one time in our Methodist church we had a professor that was giving all religions of the world. And this is rather putting it simply and fast, but it was interesting because of all the different religions, even though they all didn't believe in the divine being, Christ being the son of God, in some cases-there's Buddha and so forth—but they all were preaching about going to the same place, so to speak. And it's peculiar. They all had more or less the Ten Commandments. In other words they all believed in doing the same thing. So that was interesting...
Prabhupāda: But I don't think Christians believe.
Guest (1): So I know you people are good, just as good as I am. Bless you all, and I wish I and all of us were better.
Prabhupāda: And they are so clever that they can make God's son also fool. Over-clever.
Dharmādhyakṣa: (break) ...always said, "Your sins are forgiven you, go and sin no more." He always gave that injunction, "Go and sin no more." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...is no description of sins in Bible? What are the sins?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killing, adultery, stealing. They mention it.
Jayatīrtha: There are Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: That is.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Worship of demigods. They also say, "Putting any god in front of the one Supreme God." Worshiping matter. (break)
Prabhupāda: That is the way. That is the way because these ācāryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Kṛṣṇa is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding. And theology does not mean to make research who is God. That is theosophy. So if you are theologicians, then you must know what is God and abide by His order. What do you think, Dr. Judah?
Dr. Judah: Well, I'm not too good at interpreting the Catholic theology. But they would, the Catholic theology would say that God is the father, that there is the son who was born who is the son of God, and...
Prabhupāda: Now, God has got son. That is all right, but what do you mean by God? Everyone has got son, but that does not mean everyone is God. What is the definition of God? You have got son. I have got son. So God has got son. That does not mean He is God. Everyone has got son.
Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, you see, the Roman Catholics, if we were to consider this then again, would say that the son of God is one with God and the Holy Spirit as the Trinity...
Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is going on. We are fighting like cats and dogs. And before the Englishman came in Australia, Australia was property of somebody else. And now you have captured Australia, you are barking, "Why you have come, Indian, here?" What is this civilization? Hm? You have taken illegally from others, and now you have become proprietor. You are barking like dog, "Why you have come here?" What is this civilization? The civilization is.... All land belongs to God. We are sons of God. We can go anywhere, everywhere. It is father's property. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. If we take it like that—the United Nation passed a resolution, "The whole world belongs to the whole human society"—then there is no fight, immediately. But that they'll not do. The dog's quality. And they are fighting always. What benefit you have derived from the United Nation except this big, big barking? That's all. What benefit you have got? The purpose of United Nation was to stop war. Has war stopped? Then what is the use of barking? You could not achieve. Formerly you started League of Nation, after the Second...
Prabhupāda: When you accept Kṛṣṇa, or God.... When I say Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means God. God is the proprietor of everything. Just take for example the United Nation. They are going and making noise, full speeches, for the last fifty years, but the fighting is going on. But they do not.... Why do they not pass a resolution that "This earth planet..." Take.... Only take this earth planet, earthly planet. Other you leave aside. "This is the property of God, and we are all sons of God. Let us enjoy the property of the..." But you will not allow. You Australian, you have got so much land. You won't allow anybody to come because you think it is your land.
Mr. Dixon: Yes, I think, ah, if you're looking at the...
Prabhupāda: Production.... You take the total land as God's property, and all the population, they are sons of God. Then whole problem solved. Everything solved. If economic problem is solved, then social, political, religious, philosophical, everything is solved.
Mr. Dixon: If there was exchange for that money, I think you'd be right.
Prabhupāda: No money required. No money required. Simply one is required to work to produce food grain. That's all. No money required. And God has given us so much land that we can produce food grain and we can keep cows' milk, and from milk we derive so many rich, nutritious, full of vitamins foodstuff that the whole economic question solved immediately. But we are producing.... Instead of food grain, we are producing tobacco for smoking cigarette. We are producing coffee for going to hell. So how you can expect social reformation? In Africa I have seen. Instead of producing grain, they are producing coffee, tea, and keeping the cows for killing, making business to sell meat to other countries.
Prabhupāda: So what is the order of Jesus Christ?
Guest (4): We believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right, but what Jesus Christ says?
Devotee (4): What does Jesus Christ say? What is Jesus Christ saying? What are his instructions?
Guest (3): Well, Jesus Christ, we believe that when he lived as a mortal man, he organized the church, and the people followed him...
Prabhupāda: What is the instruction?
Guest (3): Well, because he loved us and he was the only begotten son of God.
Prabhupāda: That means you'll go on committing sins and Christ will suffer?
Guest (3): No, see Christ only forgives when you repent. See what I mean? See, this is the thing I want to say...
Prabhupāda: But this has become a business, that I commit sin and repent. "We believe, I repent, and again I commit sin." Do you think it is very good business?
Guest (3): Well, see this is the thing. Christianity has made it a business. So what we're saying is we...
Prabhupāda: That means they are not Christians.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. We obey the orders of Christ—we think of always—then we are perfect. Either Christ, the son of God, or God, Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. God and son of God, they are not different.
Guest (3): We were wondering if we could give you a personal gift that means a lot to us. We've got a Book of Mormon with us, and I don't know if you have one.
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (3): But we feel that it's a scripture written by ancient people who lived in the South and Central American continents from the years 600 B.C. to A.D. 400. And we thought that this was kind of a special opportunity, and we didn't know if you had one. And we were wondering if we could leave you one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can leave.
Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Divinely placed by the Father is God. That's all. You cannot deny the fact. And he claims: "I am son of God." Then, what is the argument?
Arcita: Is there any such experience in the Vedic literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda? An example we can cite also?
Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Many different understandings.
Satsvarūpa: Some say he's a perfect man. Some say a son of God or he's actually God. (break) ...a spirit within.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...Holy Ghost is like Brahman and Paramātmā. All-pervading God and God within the heart speaking.
Satsvarūpa: And Jesus Christ is the only son of the Lord, and he's the Lord also at the same time.
Hari-śauri: And they say he has a material body, and he is God incarnated into flesh.
Prabhupāda: We also say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ.
Satsvarūpa: The guru is as good as God. And only by the guru...
Prabhupāda: But he's servant.
Prabhupāda: Just see. This rascaldom is going on in the name of civilization. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), they do not know. Everything belongs to God, and are all sons of God. So by God's arrangement there is enough land to live, enough land to produce food. They're misusing. Therefore the whole trouble.
Indian man (4): Prabhu, then what that means, what we mean is they should have rsabandutra(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, a rsabandutra(?) means, unless you have got the central point. How we can have? First of all you know Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): They must have a common background, common ground whereby you can...
Prabhupāda: That they haven't got. Common.... He is trying to become Kṛṣṇa. Everything is rolling around. So this is the mistake. He's trying to become center, that foolish rascal. How he's center? Center is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But that is good for you, because you are harassed by overpopulation. You cannot feed them even. Why you object? Let them go and live somewhere else peacefully. Just like the Europeans came here. Originally, in America, Europeans came. Because it was overcongested and they got..., Columbus found this land, enough, and they migrated. So still there is so much land. The Indians are hard workers, they will develop very nicely. Just like this quarter; if Indians would be allowed, they'll come and make it very nice. In South America, they have done. Many Indian cultivators, they have come in remote villages. This cooperation should be. Everything belongs to God. Why a class or community should be congested? Just like China, Japan, India, so much congested. What is this nonsense United Nations doing? What they have done for the last thirty years? No liberal-minded. Let them propose that wherever there is enough land and wherever there is overpopulation, let them go and the government give them simply land and let them work and be happy. Why not arrange, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, arrange between these two, United Nations. Why a section of people is rotting in a place and devising some means how to fight with the others and get land? Why? There is no meaning. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). This is our philosophy, everything belongs to God, and everyone is a son of God; therefore the son of God has the right. Why they should be thrown together and live compulsorily in that rotten place, that in China they are living on the sea? You know that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "...God's property from being occupied by God's sons. America and other nations in the United Nations should agree that wherever there is enough land it may be utilized by the human society for producing food. The government can say, 'All right, you are overpopulated. Your people can come here. We will give them land, and they can produce food.' We would see a wonderful result, but will they do that? No. And what is their philosophy? Roguism. 'I will take the land by force and then I won't allow others to come here.' "
Reporter: "One American motto is 'One nation under God.' "
Prabhupāda: "Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There should be one nation under God, and one world government under God as well. Everything belongs to God and we are all His sons. That philosophy is wanted."
Kīrtanānanda: Who is this reporter?
Prabhupāda: He says that he is son of God; that is accepted.
Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa was Christ's father then.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa is father, and Christ is the son.
Guest (1): I understand it now. I just wondered.
Prabhupāda: He said "I am son of God." Yes.
Guest (1): And when he spoke of his father in heaven, he was speaking of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is, yes.
Guest (1): I understand. It all fits together now.
Indian man (7): Swamiji, how could you convince these Christian people that Christ was the son of God, or Kṛṣṇa was the...
Prabhupāda: Christ says himself that "I am the son of God." (laughter)
Indian man (7): Many Christians, they do not...
Prabhupāda: Many Christians also... There are so many Christian editions. That is another thing.
Bali-mardana: We have accepted.
Prabhupāda: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Kṛṣṇa as the father?
Guest (1): Prabhupāda, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That, here is the society. You train them. You have got all children. You train them in that way, so that... Whatever is done is done. Now you can make very good society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Not that one mistake has been done, you should continue. Rectify it. The difficulty is the modern society, the leaders, they do not know the aim of life. They are blindly doing everything like animals. Their philosophy is like the animals. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that's all. This is the philosophy of the animals. And human philosophy is to understand first of all what I am. I am this body or something else? That is human life. But nobody questions this, there is no institution to teach this science, therefore the whole human society is misguided. Just like if I want to train my boy to become a medical man, then I teach him biology, botany, similar... So if... Because I know I shall make my boy a medical man. Similarly, we should know what is the aim of human life. Then we have to construct the social political, everything, favorable to that end. But they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the whole mistake. I think that in Bible there is a story, prodigal son? So we are prodigal son. We are all sons of God, now we have become prodigal sons. What is the meaning of prodigal? "Without any responsibility," is it not? Do whatever you like.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our position, that we are sons of God, we have given up protection of God. God is protecting in all circumstances.
Hari-śauri: It says "Prodigal: recklessly wasteful."
Prabhupāda: That's it. This is the... We are all recklessly wasteful sons of God. We are sons of God, there is no doubt, but at the present moment, recklessly wasteful. We are wasting our valuable life even, we are so reckless. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to check their recklessness and bring them into senses of responsibility, going back home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But people are so reckless, as soon as you say something of God, immediately they laugh, "Oh, what is nonsense, God." This is the supreme recklessness. India was very serious about God. Still, India is serious. Now, the present leaders, they are thinking that Indians are spoiled, simply thinking of God—they're not thinking like the Americans and Europeans for economic development. So this is the position, and it is very difficult, but still we can do something this to the humanity, by preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And those who are fortunate, they'll come, take up seriously.
Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. (break) ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny.
Prabhupāda: That means you are violate the laws of God. Every place is God's place, so you're all God's sons. You can go anywhere. Unless I do something harm, you cannot check me. In the airport, everyone is checked. That means everyone is dishonest. Nowadays everyone is checked. So in the airport, the passengers, at least it is to be supposed they are paying so much fare, they are all respectable gentlemen. But nobody is to be trusted. They are all dishonest. This is your position. Even though you are outwardly respectable gentlemen, the airport authorities accept you as dishonest, to be checked. This is the effect of your education, everyone is dishonest. (lamb crying in background) Why the lamb is crying? Eh? The lamb?
Prabhupāda: No, no. We are not such kind of religionist. We say that everything belongs to God and everyone is son of God. We don't say like that.
Dayānanda: But they say we don't believe in God, we believe in humanity.
Prabhupāda: What is the difference?
Dayānanda: The difference is that humanity is tangible, it's something we can understand, but God we cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: So we are also tangible, but we are more advanced. How you can, wherefrom the humanity came, the next question will be. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Wherefrom the human being came, hm? Do little.
Hari-śauri: Just a little?
Prabhupāda: Yes, not little, so that the flies may not come.
Dayānanda: That's what they say, that that is the problem.
Prabhupāda: And the problem will continue because you are taking account a section of living entity. You, because you have no idea of dog and other animals, what they are, they are also sons of God. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ. Unless you come to this understanding, there is no question of humanity. This is the humanity understanding. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ.
Harikeśa:
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."
Prabhupāda: Yes, God has given you enjoyment, but you cannot enjoy yourself, alone. There are other sons, they will also enjoy. If you interfere with other sons, then you'll be punished. God's son is the lamb, and you let him enjoy, you also enjoy. But if you interfere with his right, then you'll be punished. That is God's law. Sarva-yoniṣu, God is not only your father, he's father of the lamb also. So if by your brute force you want to kill the poor lamb, then you'll be punished. This is natural. You have got your food, you produce your foodgrain and you eat. Why should you eat another animal? God says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), you must eat to become strong. But that does not mean you'll eat another brother. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1), whatever He has designated, you eat like that. You are human being, you can produce food. You grow foodstuffs, rice, wheat, fruit, flowers, vegetables. That is allowed. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, you produce anna, why should you kill an animal?
Prabhupāda: This is our business. How there can be peace? It is not possible. This property is walled, that property is walled. You cannot encroach on the other side of the wall. Then it is criminal, trespassing. The government's duty is to see that nobody's encroaching on others. Similarly, God's duty is that. That everyone is God's son, you don't encroach upon other son's right, then you'll be punished. You have got right to live and the lamb has got right to live. Why should you encroach upon his living right? Because you are strong. That is not humanity. The animal is therefore benefit. Let him live and you take the fur. You can use it for your coat, but why should you kill it? The cow is giving milk like mother, why should you kill it? This is humanity, to kill the mother? So in this way we are encroaching the rights of others, and we are becoming subject to be punished by God. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: No, there are always two classes of men: devatā and demons. Demon class will always say like that, "There is no God. We are everything." Devatā class, they will always believe in. That is the difference, devatā class. This struggle will always be there. (Sanskrit) There are two classes of men throughout the whole universe. One is called daiva and the other is called asura. The Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ.(?) Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are daiva. And asura (Sanskrit). And those who are not devotees, they are just the opposite number, they are asura. So asura class will always (coughs) say like that. And there is always fight between the two, even in higher planetary systems. Only Brahmaloka, Satyaloka, there are no more asuras. So asura class will always fight like that, and devatā class will always defy. But for God everyone is equal, because all of them are sons of God. Therefore an attempt is always going on to turn the asuras to become devotees. For this purpose God Himself comes, He sends His representative, how these rascal asuras can be turned into devotees. Otherwise the asura class will always be there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Internationalism. Why it is a short-sighted view, "They cannot come here"? Everyone is God's son, and everything belongs to God. If one finds opportunity in some place, let him have it. I think if this is adopted by the United Nation, immediately the face of the world will change. The Chinese and the Indians, they are very expert. If they are given place, they can immediately turn that place into a nice food-producing village. They can do that. And you can produce anything usable from anywhere according to the climate. Especially in America, the facility is very, very great. So many jungles. If the jungles are cut, the woods can be used for making house and the field can be used for producing food and milk, cows, everything. Around our New Vrindaban there are many places.
Hari-śauri: Both our... Pennsylvania farm has 100 acres of woods.
Guest (2): Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, he's a person. His father must be person.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If son of God, if the son has form, how the father hasn't got form? What do you say? I'm asking you. This English boy. How the father can be formless? Christ says that he's the son of God. Is it not?
Englishman: He said he was, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But he's a person. So how the father is imperson? What kind of father?
Dr. Patel: Sir, instead of calling person, we say he's an individual. Person means this body.
Prabhupāda: Person is individual.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Christ is described as son of God, but where is the father? That means you are so rascal, you do not care to understand the father. And we are presenting the father, the father of Christ. And you are condemning. You do not know who is the father of Christ.
Rāmeśvara: His argument was that if God wanted Himself to be known as Kṛṣṇa, He would have...
Prabhupāda: But you do not know the meaning of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." That is God. That is God.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. I tried to explain. But he said Kṛṣṇa means that person who appeared in India five thousand years ago. That is Kṛṣṇa. So he said if God is Kṛṣṇa, then there would be some evidence in the Bible, but there is no evidence.
Prabhupāda: There is ev... There is evidence. Because... But you are so fool that you do not inquire, "If the Christ is son of God, who is God?" They never inquires. Why did you not inquire?
Rāmeśvara: He said that God spoke to Moses. God did not tell Moses that He was Kṛṣṇa. He told Moses that He is Jehovah.
Prabhupāda: Did Christ say that "Jehovah is my father"?
Rāmeśvara: That makes it very clear.
Hari-śauri: I can't remember ever seeing... Jesus never used a name. He only spoke about "my father."
Prabhupāda: And who is that father? Why did you not...? So here is the father. You should be obliged to us that we are bringing...
Rāmeśvara: "Because he came to earth as the son of God. He died for your sins."
Prabhupāda: Therefore religion means what is given by God, either directly or through His son or through His servant. That is religion. So if you do not know who is God and what He has given, then where is your religion? Religion means the law given by God. So you should know who is God and what law He has given. Then you have religion. You say you do not know what is God.
Rāmeśvara: This man was saying that in the Bible there is a description of God speaking to Moses and Abraham, and He identified Himself as Jehovah, not Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is the main point, that what God said.
Rāmeśvara: What God said? He told Abraham to go to Israel and to worship only Him. He said, "There shall be no other Gods. Just Me." And then He told Moses the Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another fanaticism, gundaism. Not nationalism. Gundaism. "Everything belongs to God. We are sons of God. We must enjoy everywhere. You cannot check."
Rāmeśvara: It seems that eventually, then, the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement will establish one world government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Actually that is the meaning.
Rāmeśvara: Within the period of...
Prabhupāda: We actually do. When you go to the sea, who claims "This is my sea"?
Hari-śauri: Actually they're doing that now. They have twelve-mile limits and things like that.
Prabhupāda: That is also limited. So twelve miles...
Prabhupāda: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.
Hari-śauri: Yeah. He only preached for three years too.
Prabhupāda: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.
Hari-śauri: Yes, He's world famous for the last two thousand years.
Prabhupāda: Yes, not joke. Unless he's God representative, how he can be so famous? That we know. I told in Melbourne, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" And "He's our guru," I told. You remember that?
Hari-śauri: So they... Originally it was "Jesus of the Christ," meaning he was son of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That Christ is Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: Yeah. Same word.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Krisht, Krisht. Christ means Krisht, Krisht. Krishta is vulgar expression of Kṛṣṇa. No, from his teaching, we can understand he is representative of God.
Hari-śauri: Oh, yes. What he was teaching is exactly in accord with what we're doing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They may not accept God, but they are sons of God. You may become a madman—you don't accept your father. That does not mean that you have no father.
Guest (1): But he is a madman.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so madman, that should be treated. That is humanity. A madman, he has become mad, and "Get him out." No. Human society's duty is to treat him, to become a sane man.
Guest (1): And that type of man requires a special treatment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, a special treatment...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he never says that.
Trivikrama: "I am the son of God."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "My father who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done." He never says, "My kingdom come, my will be done."
Trivikrama: Say, "I sit at the right hand of God."
German man (1): "The Father and me are one," he said. To give an example, the father in the heaven, and to his disciple he said, "The Father is in me. The Father is in me. I am one with the Father. I am not real, but the Father in me is doing everything. I am doing nothing." Every truth... Somebody touch his feet and they don't touch. "Don't tell me, my Father and me," he said.
Devotee (5): We chant every morning, sākṣād-dharitvena...
Prabhupāda: No bona fide person will say that "I am God." As soon as one says that "I am God," he's a rascal immediately. God is not so cheap. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said. He said, "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of servant of God." Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). Hundred times down. And that is real identification. And as soon as a person says, "I am God," then he's a madman. He's part of God. That is all right. But not the Supreme God.
Prabhupāda: "This is a bell," this is perfect. Similarly, I cannot become guru because I am imperfect. My senses are imperfect. I cannot see even what is beyond this wall, although I am very much proud of my eyes. I want to see. What you can see? Imperfect, all senses. But if some authority says that "Beyond this wall this is the..., like this," it is all right. So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighborhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will act. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We do not manufacture ideas. That has spoiled the whole world. Just like you said about Christ. That he never said "Supreme Lord." He said, "I am son of God. I have brought message of Him." Similarly, our position is that "We have got a message from Kṛṣṇa. Take it." So we have no difficulty. Anyone can say. If you study Bhagavad-gītā nicely, assimilate and repeat it, it will act. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We are teaching that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. You become a devotee. You worship Him and offer your obeisances."
| Page Title: | Son of God (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 01 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=114, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 114 |