The passive relationship is simply realizing, "Oh, how God is great". God is great. One is thunderstruck with the greatness of God. That is passive relationship: "God, God is great." When that relationship is enhanced a little, more the next stage is that "If God is great why not give Him some service?" just like we are accustomed to give some service to some person who is greater than me. That is the laws of nature. Just like the animals. The animals are giving service to the man, because the man is supposed to be greater than the animal. Similarly, one man is greater than the other, so the smaller man is giving service to the greater man. That is the law of nature. So when this sense comes, "If God is so great," not that "God is great; therefore exact from God the things of my sense gratification." No. The real love is that "God is great, God is supplying us so many things, all of our necessities, why not render some service to God?" This consciousness is part of development. The next developmen is to give service to God as friend, just like Arjuna is giving. And the next development is to render service to God as parents. And the highest platform of service rendering to God is conjugal love. So there are different stages. That is explained. Go on.
Some people (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So sometimes Arjuna is accused, Bhagavad-gītā is also accused, that "There is violence. There is violence. Bhagavad-gītā is full of violence." Yes, it is full of violence. The warfield. But here the Vaiṣṇava thinking, Arjuna is thinking that it was arranged for his rājya-sukha. Yad rājya-sukha-lobhena. Lobhena. It was arranged for the satisfaction of Arjuna so that he could enjoy the kingdom and the happiness thereof. Actually, it was not so. It was arranged by Kṛṣṇa for His satisfaction, not for Arjuna's satisfaction. So that is the difference between ordinary work and devotional service. Devotional service and ordinary work, they look almost equal. Just like we are living in this house. The neighbors, they may think that "Some people are living here, chanting, dancing. We also dance. We also sometimes sing. And eating, they are also eating. Then what is the difference?" They may think that "What is the difference between devotional service and ordinary work?" It looks almost equal. Therefore people misunderstand that Bhagavad-gītā is ordinary warfare, violence. But it is not that. It is arranged by Kṛṣṇa because, to fulfill His mission. His mission is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8). That is His satisfaction, not Arjuna's satisfaction, not anyone's satisfaction. It is His plan. He comes, He descends on this planet, in this universe, just to establish the real purpose of religious life and to kill, to vanquish those who are opposing the real purpose of life, human life. That is His mission, simultaneously two things. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8).
Yes. "You are speaking learned words, but your behavior shows that you are not learned because you are lamenting on a subject which no learned man laments." Politely He says that "You are not learned, but you are talking just like a learned man." That you will find. Dr. Frog, (laughs) speaking like a very great philosopher. Just like here, that Dr. Radhakrishnan, that says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa but within Kṛṣṇa." That fool does not know that there is no within or without of Kṛṣṇa. Rather, Kṛṣṇa is within and without. That he does not know. And he's accepted as a very great learned man. Dr. Frog, or Dr. Radhakrishnan. You see? This is going on in the world. They are posing themself as very learned, but... This can be detected by devotees, who is learned and who is not learned. Others cannot detect. Others will be misled. The devotees, they have got such eyes to see that they can immediately discriminate who is a fool, who is learned. There is a story that one man was searching after the truth. So he met some person, saintly person. So he gave him one feather, that "You try to see within the feather who is a human being and who is not." So when he began to see within the feather, he saw, "There is no human being.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now take some contribution and purchase one temple. (laughs) The saṅkīrtana's party's responsibility is increasing. Just find out some person, and give us a temple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I found someone who will give us a big garage, but it's not a temple. A nice man.
Prabhupāda: Never mind garage. Let him begin. We shall sit down there in garage. He's giving for good or...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. He is volunteering. He's a businessman who has started to chant.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very nice.
Prabhupāda: So let him give us and we shall make our temple there in the garage. Where it is?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says it's nearby here. He said fifty people can come in.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.
That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, Kṛṣṇa will not ask you to kill guru, but... Because guru and Kṛṣṇa are the same. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151). We get Kṛṣṇa consciousness through the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. So real guru is never to be killed, but the so-called guru has to be killed. The so-called, pseudo guru, false guru, he should be killed. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. While Prahlāda Mahārāja... He was standing. Here is, Nṛsiṁha-deva is killing his father. Father is guru. Sarva-devamayo guruḥ (SB 11.17.27). Similarly, father is also guru, at least, official guru. Materially he is guru. So how Prahlāda Mahārāja allowed Nṛsiṁha-deva to kill his guru? He's father. Everyone knows that Hiraṇyakaśipu is father. Would you like to see that your father is being killed by some person and you'll stand? You will not protest? Is that your duty? No, that is not your duty. When your father is attacked, you must protest. At least, if you are unable, you must fight. You first of all lay down your life: "How is that, my father is being killed in my front?" That is our duty. But Prahlāda Mahārāja did not protest. He could have requested—he is devotee—"My dear sir, Prabhu, my Lord, You can excuse my father." He didn't. But he knew that "My father is not being killed. It is the body of the father." Later on he begged for his father in a different way. First of all, when Nṛsiṁha-deva was angry, He was killing the body, he knew that "The body is not my father. The soul is my father. So let the Lord satisfy Himself by killing the body of my father; then I shall save him."
Now rascals will think that "How there is a god or there is a person in the sun planet?" They'll think like that. Everything from his own angle of vision. This is modern science. "I cannot think of such thing. Therefore, there cannot be any such thing." Just like everything should be within my experience. This is going on. They never admit that "What is your experience?" You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect, how you can be perfectly experienced? It is not possible. Acintya. There are so many inconceivable powers acting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. What are you? You may cheat some people that you have become God. That is another thing. But the inconceivable potency of Kṛṣṇa, they are working differently. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī says that unless we accept this principle that Kṛṣṇa or God has got inconceivable power, acintya-śakti, we cannot understand. If we put Kṛṣṇa within the jurisdiction of my limited understanding, that is not understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). That inconceivable power is also within us. We do not know. So many things are happening. The example, as I gave many times, that the one nail was taken off. Still, it grew exactly to the size of the nail. In my personal body, in the nails. So the doctors cannot make exactly fitting nail, but it is growing exactly to the size. Even it is inconceivable to me how it is growing. Even my hair grows inconceivable, I do not know. I cut every week, and it still grows. There are so many little inconceivable power within me. I am part and parcel of God. Just imagine how much inconceivable power is there in Kṛṣṇa. It is common sense.
His indication He's coming is that people are becoming degraded, forgetting God. That is their degradation. So at the end of this Kali-yuga they will be so much degraded that it will be impossible for them to understand God. At the present moment, although it is Kali-yuga, there are some persons who are trying to understand God. At least, there is attempt. But, at the end of Kali-yuga, say, about 400,000's of years, then people... Because they're becoming animals, more and more. The more we become animals, we cannot understand God. So our modern civilization is to make the people animal. That is advancement of civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narāṇām. The modern civilization is how we can eat very nicely, how we can sleep nicely, how we can have sexual intercourse nicely, how we can defend nicely. Only these four principles are being taught. They have no idea what is soul, what is God, what is the relationship with the soul. So this is, this type of civilization is increasing. So just imagine how much it will be increased after four hundred thousands of years. The Kali-yuga has begun only five thousand years. Within this five thousand years, we have so much degraded, illusioned by the māyā as advancement of civilization. This is māyā. So the more days go, we shall be more illusioned. So there will be no capacity to understand about God. At that time, God will come to destroy all this population by cutting their throat. That is kalki-avatāra. (end)
So Lord Jesus Christ said, "My Lord, hallowed be Thy name." He wants to glorify the name of the Lord. And some people says that there is no name of God. How? If Lord Jesus Christ says "Hallowed by Thy name," there must be name. The name is there, but he did not pronounce it because the people at that time will not be able to understand or maybe some reason, but he says there is name. So we are making this propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the "Hallowed by Thy name. My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, let Your holy name be glorified." This is our movement. It is not a sectarian...
It is very scientific movement, scientific movement because at the present moment we are all godless, forgotten what is God and what to speak of His name. They do not believe in God and what to speak of His name, fame, His place, His activities, His form, His qualities. How we can know? There is no educational system about the science of God. This movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is teaching the science of God. And if you accept the name of the God, name of God, Kṛṣṇa—this is also affirmed in other system also—then you will be able to associate with God immediately. Because God is Absolute. Absolute means there is no difference.
So Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, explaining the method of His appearance and disappearance. People do not know it. Just like the sun. Because we do not see at night, formerly some people used to think "The sun is now dead, or gone." But later on, by scientific method, they have come to know the sun is always in the sky. Due to our different position, we do not see the sun at night. Otherwise, the sun is there. This is... If this is possible for an ordinary material thing, how much it is greatly possible for the Supreme Spirit.
Therefore ajo 'pi san. Kṛṣṇa has no birth, no death. We have also no birth and death because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We have no birth and death; that is explained already in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā: Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit...na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Now you can select your own religion. Either you be a Hindu or Muslim or Mohammedan or Buddhist, whatever you like, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata does not stop you, but it gives you hint what is the purpose of religion. The purpose of religion is to develop your love of Godhead. That is real religion. So here Kṛṣṇa says that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). As soon as there is decadence of people's love of Godhead... That means when people become forgetful, almost forgetful. Because at least some people remember that there is God. But generally, in this age, they are forgetful. That is dharmasya glāniḥ. And by forgetting God the people cannot be happy. That is also another cause. People are thinking that "God is dead. We have no obligation to God. There is no God." This sort of thinking will never make the people happy. And actually, it is happening. They have become atheistic. The modern civilization is Godless, but people are not happy. Therefore God or His representative comes when people forget his relationship with God.
So real religion is to understand what is our relationship with God. And then the relationship is, as it is found in the Bhagavad-gītā and confirmed by great ācāryas like Lord Caitanya.
There are... Just like Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by His actions, wonderful actions, not that He pretended and cheated some people that "I am God." Actually, from the beginning of His appearance, He played, I mean to say, uncommon activities. Just like at the age of seven years old He lifted the Govardhana Hill. There are so many instances. If you read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, life of Kṛṣṇa in the Tenth Canto, there is description. And in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, the Bhagavad-gītā. So by His activities, by His knowledge, by His opulence—everything is there. Nobody is supposed to be cheated by a pretender if he is actually intelligent. Go on.
Kṛṣṇa's service, as we know what is meant by service: you carry the order of some person. That is service. Master orders, and the servant carries out the order. This is service. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the master, Kṛṣṇa, orders Arjuna to fight. He was not willing to fight for his personal interest, but when Kṛṣṇa ordered him that, "You must fight," he fought. That is service. We should dedicate our lives to Kṛṣṇa, and whatever He says, we carry out. That is service.
Nirvairaḥ. You should not be anyone's enemy. Others may become your enemy. Because it is quite natural. Anyone who comes with the message of the Supreme Lord, there are persons who become his enemy. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, He came. His only fault was that he was preaching the message of God, and people, some people, not all people, become his enemy, and he was crucified. So this is the world. Anyone who comes as a most, I mean to say, beneficial friend of the world, people take him as the enemy, and they do the same mistake again so that they are bound up again by their own work and they remain in this material world to repeat birth and death, one after another, one after another. So we should be very much cautious.
That means you have to make yourself expert. Then you can help your children also. Then you can help your nation also. Then you can help your society also. If you are yourself ignorant, then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31).
Just like a person who is, I mean, tightly bound-up, hands and feet. Suppose we are sitting here, some people, twenty-five gentlemen, ladies, and all our hands are tightly bound-up by some rope, and if I want to make you free, although my hand is also tightly bound-up, is it possible? No. At least my hand should be free. Then I can open, I can untie, your bindings by the rope. So unless one is free man... And what is that freedom? One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is free man. And nobody is free man.
Now, take for example, take for example the material world. The most prominent thing is, I mean to say, unity between man and woman. Now, one can inquire, "Wherefrom this attraction comes between male and female?" Not only the human society, but also in animal society, in the bird society, in any society, every living be... This is a fact. So somebody criticizes, but those who do not know Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa had so many girlfriends. So they are... Some people are criticize. But one does not know that where we get this idea of having girlfriends unless the tendency is in Kṛṣṇa? Because you can have nothing here unless that is in Kṛṣṇa. But here it is perverted. It is polluted. And Kṛṣṇa, it is pure consciousness, pure spiritual. That is the difference.
Mr. Goldsmith: Bhagavad-gītā speaks of war. It started out with a war.
Prabhupāda: No, what... Bhagavad-gītā says... Bhagavad-gītā does not say that stop war. Bhagavad-gītā says stop your repeated birth and death. Bhagavad-gītā is not concerned with the war principle. The war will remain so long the human society is there. How can you stop it?
Mr. Goldsmith: Well, some people don't believe that it's necessary.
Prabhupāda: Some people, they foolishly believe. Because, so long the human society will continue, there is no history that there was no war in the history. So war there will be.
Mr. Goldsmith: Well there's never been in history that everyone has accepted Kṛṣṇa either, and yet you...
Prabhupāda: No, you do not think that... Of course, when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, when you are not in this material world, then there is no question of war also. My point is that war is not only the only disturbing principle. There are many other disturbing principles. So we have to make a wholesale solution of all principles. That is the point.
They said, "Lord Caitanya, You are the most munificent person, personality, because You are distributing kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa, and this love of Kṛṣṇa, distribution of love of Kṛṣṇa by You, means that You are Kṛṣṇa Himself." Because Kṛṣṇa, when He appeared, when He spoke Bhagavad-gītā and He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all engagements; just become under My shelter. I give you protection," ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, some people misunderstood. Even in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book, you'll find, he said,"Oh, not to Kṛṣṇa." You see. Even great scholars make mistake. The clear indication is that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says that "Just surrender unto Me," and the scholar says, "Oh, this surrender is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. So the surrender to Kṛṣṇa and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest perfectional stage of life, highest perfectional stage of... One who has tasted it, oh, he cannot be, I mean to say, thinking of anything else.
Just opposite. There is no question of demanding to become the Lord or the President or this. I want to serve, that's all. And that is the crucial test. Service is the original nature. Now in this material world also you are serving. If you want to become the President then I have to promise so many times to the voters that "I'll give you service." Without promise of service, there is no question of presidentship. So actually my position is to render service. Either I become President or Minister or this or that. That they cannot understand. In spite of my becoming the highest executive person, President—Oh, I have to give service to my people, otherwise immediately they dethrone me. Therefore my real position is service. But service here is so dangerous, if there is little discrepancy of service, the President is immediately fired. Why your President Mr. Kennedy was fired. Because some people did not like that you are rendering nice service. That is the root fact. So you cannot satisfy here by service. Our Gandhi in India, he was also killed. He gave service throughout the whole life, but people at the time did not like. "Oh, you are not rendering their service." This is the position. Therefore one should be intelligent enough to know that no more service to these material objectives. I must give my service to the Supreme Lord. That is the perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: It is just like television nowadays. You can see things happening thousands of miles away in television, and you can explain to your friends. This is like that. It is a question of seeing power. So now we have got the instrument, television machine. It is not difficult to understand. In the football ground the matches is going on, and it is being relayed in your room. It is alike that.
Indian man (3): Swamiji, of all holy scriptures we have two books, and one is the Rāmāyaṇa and one is the Śrī Bhagavad-gītā. (break) 'Cause some people offer the reason that according to the Rāmāyaṇa we follow Rāma and Sītā as God. Can you just inform us the real or tell us who is our, the most of our...
Prabhupāda: So, we are... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people on the principles of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. So if you understand Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, then you will understand Lord Rāma also and other incarnations, because Kṛṣṇa is present with all the incarnations.
So to inquire about Brahman and to understand Brahman by proper inquiry and by proper answer from the proper source, the cultivation of this knowledge is the business of human being. Therefore a class of men in the society known as brāhmaṇa, brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ, there is need. There is, necess... The Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to understand tad-vijñāna, brahma-vijñāna, one must approach the proper guru or spiritual master. Unfortunately we have rejected at the present moment the persons who are actually brāhmaṇa. On the other hand, in the name of brāhmaṇa, some persons claiming as brāhmaṇa, they are ruling over the society. But that is not the way. The brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya, śūdra, they are ascertained by the symptom. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: (BG 4.13) "I have created these four divisions of society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So that should be divided according to the qualification and work." Just like if you are qualified as a medical man and if you are practicing as a medical man, then you are medical man. Simply by posing yourself that "I am the son of a medical man; therefore I am medical man," this is useless. In the śāstras, a person born of a brāhmaṇa family or a person born of a kṣatriya family but his qualities are not brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, he is called brahma-bandhu, kṣatri-bandhu, not brāhmaṇa.
Guest (4): Why do some people want to approach Kṛṣṇa in hatred?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Śyāmasundara: Why is that some people want to approach Kṛṣṇa in hatred?
Prabhupāda: Because... Hatred? That is always. Not today. Every day. When Kṛṣṇa was born, there was a Kaṁsa who was planning how to kill Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was born, you know that? So Kṛṣṇa... To kill Kṛṣṇa... There is a section of men who want to kill Kṛṣṇa always. They are called demons, or rākṣasas. So the rākṣasas... More or less, everyone in this material world are demons. But those who are intelligent, from this demonic life they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others who do not come God consciousness, they remain demons, and their business is just like Kaṁsa, Rāvaṇa, simply making plan how to kill God or kill Kṛṣṇa. That's all. "There is no God." That is their propaganda. "I am God." That's all. So these demonic elements are always there. You have to do your own business. That's all.
So this is going on. They do not know what is God, and still, there are so many incarnations of God. And foolish people accept that "Here is an incarnation of God." He does not know what is God, and he accepts, "Here is incarnation." We do not do so. If there is incarnation of God... That is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Their activities are mentioned, wonderful activities. We accept Lord Rāmacandra as God, Lord Kṛṣṇa as God, Caitanya Mahāprabhu as God, because They are mentioned in the śāstras, all the incarnations, even this age. One may say that "Lord Rāmacandra is accepted God, Lord Kṛṣṇa is also accepted, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is the greatest devotee of God, but..." There are some persons in the Nimbārka-sampradāya, they put this argument. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name is there in the śāstra, many Upaniṣads, especially in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that in the Kali-yuga this incarnation of God should be worshiped.
Not certain other comment. The Vallabhācārya, he brought his Subodhinī-ṭīkā, and he was great admirer of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he said that "I have written one commentary which is far better than the comments given by Śrīdhara Svāmī." So that was disapproved by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If you disapprove previous ācārya or if you become more intelligent than previous ācārya, then you are not ācārya. This is... This was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... He disapproved. Our process is evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We cannot disregard. Śrīdhara is the original commentator of Bhāgavata. If you say that "I am better than Śrīdhara Svāmī," then you immediately become rejected. If I say... Just like there are some people, they create some avatāra, and they say, "This avatāra is better than Kṛṣṇa"—immediately rejected. Immediately. He must know his value. This was... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said svāmī, Śrīdhara Svāmī, so he also sarcastically remarked, svāmī nā māne yei jana veśyāra bhitare tāre kariye gaṇana. Svāmī means husband also. So if some woman says that "I don't care for my husband," Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Then he's a prostitute. She is a prostitute." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You cannot disregard svāmī. Not that... They were very friendly, so you can take it as friendly, jokingly, that "You are so proud that you are disregarding Śrīdhara Svāmī. Then you are no better than prostitute."
There are three kinds of activities going on in the human society. Some people are karmīs. They enjoy life, or they want to enjoy life by working hard. Enjoyment means āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. To eat very nicely and to sleep very nicely, to enjoy sex life very nicely and to make defense force, this is called enjoyment, material enjoyment. If I am secure by defense force and if I have got good bank balance, if I have got a very nice, beautiful wife and if I eat sumptuously to the satisfaction of my tongue, I think I am very much successful. But that is not success. Success is different thing. This is called bhukti, material enjoyment. So bhukti-mukti-siddhi. When one is fed up with this hard working for material enjoyment and get little sense above material enjoyment, gets little sense for spiritual understanding... That we have discussed yesterday. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). That is knowledge. To work hard like an ass for sense gratification, that is not siddhi. Siddhi is different thing. Siddhi means to understand the spiritual identification and work for it. That is called siddhi. So the attempt for such thing is called mukti, to get rid of the material entanglement. So bhukti-mukti-siddhi. There are three stages. So siddhi means when one understands his spiritual identity and tries to make his life perfect on that platform, that is called siddhi. Otherwise, bhukti mukti.
Prabhupāda: Who is fallen is called yoga-bhraṣṭa. So yoga-bhraṣṭa means he has fallen from the instruction of the spiritual master. But a spiritual master sometimes is so kind that he delivers him in the next birth also. But it is not our duty to bring the spiritual master to save me again in the next life. It is not very good disciple. (laughter)
Indian man (5): At the time of death some people becomes unconscious...
Prabhupāda: No unconscious. Consciousness there is. So long one is not death, mean, the soul is gone out of the body, his consciousness is there even in the sleeping condition.
Indian man (5): But can he hear? We say "Rāma, Rāma." Can he hear that?
Prabhupāda: If he is fortunate.
Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa gives us five gross sense and then he wants us to control. How?
Brahmānanda: Kṛṣṇa gives us five gross senses and He wants us to control them. How can we do this?
Prabhupāda: How you are being trained up? You do not know that? Why you are forbidden, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling"? This is controlling. If you don't accept this controlling, then you are lost.
He does not know. Kṛṣṇa can be known by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to know Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, in truth, then you have to go through this bhakti process, not by your speculative process. Kṛṣṇa is not open to your sensual gratification. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). He cannot be revealed to anyone and everyone. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. He's covered. Just like at night we cannot see the sun. That does not mean the sun is not in the sky. This is foolishness. If somebody thinks, "Now we cannot see the sun. Therefore sun is gone, dead..." Formerly people used to think like that. What is that? Some people? Used to think that sun is dead? So Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. As sun is always there in the sky, Now it is, say, half-past eight. So the morning, half-past eight, is also there, present. In America it is half-past eight, morning. There you'll see sun. So because at night in India, in Bombay, half-past eight we cannot see the sun, it does not mean the sun is finished. If you go to America, in Los Angeles, you'll see the sun. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always present. Simply you have to prepare your eyes to see Kṛṣṇa.
And formerly, the Vedas were heard by the students from the spiritual master. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. He's not studying any Vedānta philosophy in the battlefield. He was simply hearing. So that is the process, hearing. You can hear at any place. Even in the warfield, you can hear from the authoritative source. So that was the process of acquiring knowledge, hearing. Hearing means receiving the knowledge, not manufacturing. There are two process of knowledge. There are some persons who think, "Oh, why shall I hear from him? Oh, I can think. I can speculate. I can manufacture something new of my own group." These are nonsense. This is not Vedic process. Vedic process is hearing, ascending process, er, not..., descending process. There are two processes of knowledge: ascending and descending. Ascending means trying to go high by your strength, and descending means the pure knowledge which comes from up, you receive it. Inductive and deductive process.
Gatir bhartā prabhuḥ. Prabhu means the master. And sākṣī. Sākṣī means witness. God is sitting within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara, means Supreme Lord, is sitting in everyone's heart. So He is witness. Whatever you are doing, He is witness. He is giving you facility to do whatever you like, but at the same time you may forget. Suppose I wanted to do something in this life. This is not fulfilled. And next life, when I get another body, so God reminds me. "Well, you wanted to do this. Why not experiment?" That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am seated in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "From Me there is remembrance," smṛti, "there is knowledge and there is forgetfulness also." So what is that, God making one person forgetful and another person encouraging? Why? Because I wanted like that. Because I don't want to revive my relationship with the Supreme Lord. Whenever I speak of God, oh, some person becomes: "Oh, what is God? Swamiji, what you are speaking, God?" They don't want God; so God gives him that "Forget Me. Yes, you forget and suffer." And one who wants God... Just like some poor students are trying to reestablish his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Oh, Kṛṣṇa gives him too: "Yes." So therefore His business is to make you forgetful because you want to forget. And when you are advanced, if you want know... If you want to establish, reestablish your relation, He will encourage you.
Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Premāñjana. When you have got your developed love of God... This is quite natural. Just like you somebody, loves somebody. You love some person or... You always think of him. That is quite natural. Anyone. That is the objective of love. But because we are..., our love in this material world is a perverted reflection of the love of God, love can be applied only to God. In this material world there is no love. It is all lust. There cannot be any love. The word love can be applied only to God. So these are only perverted reflection, what is going on in the name of love. There is no love. So the nature of love is this, that the lover wants every moment to see without any remuneration, without any return. That is real love.
Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānaṁ apohanaṁ ca: "From Me, one remembers, one forgets." When you forget something, that is also Kṛṣṇa's trick. Because... Just like there are some persons who are devotees and some persons who are demons. So if anyone wants to become a demons, Kṛṣṇa is within. He'll give him intelligence in such a way that he becomes a first-class demon. What is the duty of the first-class demon? That he'll never understand Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) That is first-class demon. And if you want to hear Kṛṣṇa, then he will give you such instruction as you will be relieved from this miserable condition of material life and go back to home, back to Godhead. He's ready. But He does not speak generally, to the nondevotee. If you become a devotee, pure devotee, without any motive, then Kṛṣṇa is sitting within your heart. He says: teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). "Persons who are twenty-four hours engaged in My service with love and faith," buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam: "I give him such intelligence by which he can come back to home, back to Godhead." He'll give you. Because He knows. But if you don't like to take His instruction, then He gives instruction to the material nature to get you all right.
Here it also said, vikārāṁś ca guṇāṁś caiva viddhi prakṛti-sambhavān. We have become servant of the three guṇas, three qualities of this material world. Somebody is very proud of becoming good, goodness, like brāhmaṇa quality. That is good. In the material world that is first-class quality. The second-class quality, passionate, very active. All people are very active for enjoyment, passionate. And some people are in ignorance. They do not know what is goodness and what is passion. They can simply waste their time by laziness and sleeping. Sleeping. So actually we are all sleeping because we do not know what is the aim of life. At night we sleep. We forget that "what is my duty, what is my business, what I have to do." Everything we forget.
This is Vedānta, beginning. So therefore human life is meant for understanding the absolute truth, God, the background of everything. Immediately answer is there: "The Brahman means janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), the origin of everything." That is Brahman, origin of everything. There must be something origin. That is consciousness. Not that asatyam: "There is no origin." What is the nonsense? This is not human consciousness. This is animal consciousness, "There is no origin." There must be origin. I am... Because my origin is the father, my father, cause... I am born by my father. Common sense. Then his father, then his father, his father, go on, go on, go on... Although you do not know, but this is a fact that father is born by his father, and his father is born by his father. How can you deny it? He may not know the grandfather, great grandfather or more than that, but there must have been some person. Similarly, we may be foolish—we do not know; we cannot understand who is the original father—but there must have been the original father. That is God. That is God. Where is the deficiency to understand this fact?
So Arjuna is asking, "So there are many who actually do not follow the principles of śāstra, but they have got some faith. Then what is the result of such mentality?" Ye śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya: "Not following the śāstra-vidhi, the regulative principle mentioned in the śāstra," yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ, "they also make one guru or incarnation or this or that. There are so many going on. So what is the result of such activities?" This is very important question because there are so many pseudo so-called gurus. They do not know what is śāstra, neither they follow the principle. Still, they gather some people, and the world is full with such not bona fide gathering. So but they have faith in their—so-called guru that some way or other, so-called meditation... These things are going on.
There are some people, they think, "By satisfying Durgā, we shall be happy." That is also mentioned in the śāstras, but that happiness is only within this material world. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavatī-bhāryāṁ dehi yaśo dehi, dehi, dehi. After worshiping Goddess Durgā, we ask all these benedictions: "Give me money, give me beautiful wife, give me reputation, give me strength, give me victory." Durgā-devī gives you. But that is not actual happiness.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So God's name... Actually, there is no God's name. There is name, but He has got so many names. His name is given according to His pastimes. Just like according to... It has got meaning. You cannot give any name to God without bearing any meaning. That is the Vedic significance. When we say "Kṛṣṇa" name of God, that means He's all-attractive. All-attractive means He's not only attractive to the devotees but to the nondevotees. It's not that Kṛṣṇa is one-sided, He's attractive to the devotees. No. To the nondevotees also. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was also attracted by Kṛṣṇa. He was attracted to Kṛṣṇa as enemy. There are two kinds of attraction. We can become attracted to somebody as friend as well as enemy. That is also attraction. If you think of some person that "This man is my enemy. I want to kill him, or I want to do some harm to him. How I shall do? How shall I capture him? He goes on the office, on the road. So I can capture him in that way..." So many. Just like in America the President Kennedy was killed. So the man who killed him, he made it a plan, thinking of President Kennedy always. That is attraction.
So here it is said sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. Dharma... You have to execute your occupational duty, but, as Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is real dharma. "I am this. I am following this dharma, that dharma"—that is not dharma. Dharma means the natural instinct. The natural instinct is to obey the superior person. Every one of us, we are meant for obeying the Supreme. Is anyone... Who can say that "I haven't got to obey any superior person"? Is there anyone? That cannot be. You have to obey. That was the subject matter of my topics in Moscow, with Professor Kotovsky. I challenged him that "What is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You have to obey some person, and I have to obey some person. So you are obeying Lenin, and I am obeying Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difference between you and me in philosophy? Now, the things remain to be judged, whether by following Kṛṣṇa I shall be happy or by following Lenin you shall be happy. That is to be judged, not that you, Communist party, you can do without following a superior person. That you cannot do. That is not possible." That is natural.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching the same principle. What Kṛṣṇa taught five thousand years ago in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra to Arjuna, we are broadcasting the same message. We have not manufactured anything new. That is not dharma. Dharma cannot be manufactured. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law cannot be manufactured. If you manufacture some law at your home, that will not be accepted. Maybe some people, your friend, your relatives or your family members, may accept. But that cannot be accepted by all, law. But the law given by the government must be accepted by everyone. Similarly, dharma means the law given by God. That is dharma, not that I manufacture this dharma, you manufacture another dharma, you manufacture another... That may be partially good, but it is not dharma. Dharma is... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). That is the definition. Just like law is made by the government. The government makes the law, "Keep your car to the right." That has to be accepted by everyone. You cannot say, "Why not left? In India we keep our car on the left side. Why not here?" No. Then it will be unlawful. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, "This is dharma." Not that yata mat tata pat, whatever you manufacture, that is dharma. No. That is rascaldom. This is dharma: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), only one. That is dharma.
Omnipotency means in everything relating to Kṛṣṇa has the same potency. Just like here in this material world the..., if you want water, you are thirsty, if you want water, then this water, simply calling, simply saying repeatedly, "water, water, water, water, water," will not satisfy your thirst. Because this word has not the same potency as water itself. You require the water as it is. Then your thirst will be satisfied. But in the transcendental, in the absolute world, there is no such difference. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa's words and Kṛṣṇa's qualities, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes—everything is Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, some people argues that "Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa was present before him, whereas my case, Kṛṣṇa is not present. So how I can get direction?" That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa is present by His words, this Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa... Therefore the system is... Of course, here we don't find such facilities, but India, when we speak on the Bhagavad-gītā, or on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we worship regularly with flower, with other paraphernalia required for worshiping. You see? In the Sikh religion they also, they have no deity, form of the deity, but they worship the book, grantha-sevā. Perhaps some of you who are acquainted with the Sikh community, they, they worship this grantha. Similarly, the Muhammadans also, they worship the Koran. And similarly, in your Christian also, you worship Bible.
Just like in India, those who are born in brāhmaṇa family, they are falsely proud that "We are born in brāhmaṇa family. Now we are perfect. Now we can do any nonsense thing. Still I am brāhmaṇa." And it is actually being done. They are doing work less than a śūdra, and still, they are passing on as brāhmaṇa. That is the cause of India's spiritual falldown. Some people, they have exploited simply being born in high family. But actually that is not the position. Actual position is by quality. If one has got the quality of a brāhmaṇa, then he should be recognized as brāhmaṇa, as we are doing here. Here nobody is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but how we are offering him sacred thread? By the quality. That is recommended by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī gives a very nice example in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that yathā kāṁsyam,
- yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti
- kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ
- tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena
- dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām
He gives that "Just like by chemical process one can turn gun metal into gold, similarly, by the process of initiation, one can become dvija." Dvija means twice-born, or brāhmaṇa.
One who thinks Kṛṣṇa as like us, they are mistaken. Mūḍha. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: (BG 9.11) "Because I am come just like a human being, these rascals, mūḍhas, asses..." Mūḍha means asses. The example of mūḍha, just like in our vernacular language, we condemn some person who is useless, gādhā. So gādhā, that is mūḍha. Gādhā, why he is condemned? Because he does not know his interest. He works under one washerman and loads tons of cloth on the back, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass. And he stands the whole day, again carrying back the big tons of cloth. But why he is gādhā? This grass can be had anywhere, but he is thinking, "The washerman is supplying me grass; therefore I must carry his burden." Therefore he is gādhā, ass. (laughs) He can get grasses anywhere, but he is thinking that "This Mr. Washerman is so kind that he is giving me grass, so I have to bear his cloth." So the karmīs, they are like that. They are thinking that "Unless we work, we cannot get our grass." Therefore they have been described in the śāstra as asses, mūḍha. Mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti (BG 7.25).
So you should read all this. You have got: Bhāgavata, everything explanation. This is ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, ultimate relinquishment from all sufferings. What is that? Mām upetya. "One who approaches Me or one who comes to Me, back to home, back to Godhead." So they have no knowledge what is God and whether one can go back to home, back to Godhead, it is a practical thing or not. No knowledge. Simply like animals. That's all. No knowledge. They pray: "O, God, give us our daily bread." Now ask him: "What is God?" Can he explain? No. Then whom we are asking? In the air? If I ask, if I submit some petition, there must be some person. So I do not know what is that person, where to submit this petition. Simply... They say that He's in the sky. The sky, there are so many birds also, but that is not God. You see. No knowledge, no knowledge. Imperfect knowledge, all. And they're passing on scientists, philosophers, great thinkers, writers, and... All rubbish, all rubbish. The only book is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. All rubbish.
Prabhupāda: So anyone explaining. You can explain.
Pradyumna: This King Yudhiṣṭhira is lamenting that the body, this material body, does not actually belong to us. We can even see relatively that the material body belongs, while we are inside this material body, it belongs to the family. We have debts to pay to so many living entities—to our forefathers, our family. It belongs to our country. Our country takes it and says, "You take your body and you fight in Vietnam," or "You do this kind of work" or "You don't do this." It is subject to the religion we are born in. It is subject to so many rules and regulations beyond ourselves. This body, even while we are in it, does not belong to us, and before we came into this body, it was matter, belonging to someone else, and after we leave this body, as it says in the purport, "While there is life in the body it is meant for the service of others, and when it is dead it is meant to be eaten by dogs and jackals or maggots." So after death the body is disposed of in different ways. Some people bury the body; in that case the worms take the body. Some people burn the body; in that case it is consumed by fire and becomes ashes.
Prabhupāda: This one word, pārakyasya is very important. If you work... Somebody is working very hard, nobody is interested to work very hard for others. That is not the material philosophy. Everyone wants his own satisfaction, means sense gratification. So those who are in the bodily concept of life, they are working for their bodily sense gratification. But if we consider philosophically, we'll see that even this body does not belong to me. Therefore it is a very important word, pārakyasya. From the very beginning. The body was given by father and mother. So if anyone creates something, so that thing belongs to the creator. If the father and mother has created this body, then from the very beginning the body belongs to the father and mother. And actually, in the childhood, as the father and mother says, "Sit down here, eat this, don't go there," everything is controlled by the father and mother, and originally given by the father and mother. So how we can claim, "This is my body"? From the very beginning. Then somebody maintains you. Suppose you are working in office, in a factory. So actually that body belongs to him, the maintainer. Just like a dog. The master maintains it, and the dog's body is meant for the service of that master. As soon as the master indicates, "You do this," immediately he does it. A dog has no independence, practical. So in this way the body belongs to the master. In the beginning, body belongs to the father and mother. Then, if you grow up, then body belongs to your country. In this way, go up to the death point, and after death also, the body belongs to others.
Now here, the same thing is repeated: Arjuna, who directly heard from Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes some people say that "Arjuna heard directly from Kṛṣṇa, but we don't find Kṛṣṇa in our presence, so how can I accept?" It is not a question of direct presence, because you have no idea of the absolute knowledge. Kṛṣṇa's words, Bhagavad-gītā, is not different from Kṛṣṇa. It's not different from Kṛṣṇa. When you hear Bhagavad-gītā, you are directly hearing from Kṛṣṇa because Kṛṣṇa is not different. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's quality, Kṛṣṇa's instruction, everything Kṛṣṇa's, they're all Kṛṣṇa. They're all Kṛṣṇa. This has to be understood. They're not different from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's form here, He's Kṛṣṇa. He's not a statue. "He's a marble statue." No. He's Kṛṣṇa. He has appeared before you because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa. You can see stone, wood; therefore He has appeared in that form. You think that it is stone and wood, but He's not stone and wood; He's Kṛṣṇa. This is called Absolute Truth. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's words are also not different from Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa's words are there in the Bhagavad-gītā, it's Kṛṣṇa.
Nowadays it is the days of vote. Any rascal, if he gets vote somehow or other, then he acquires the exalted post. That is also written in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that in the Kali-yuga there will be no consideration who is fit to occupy the exalted post of presidentship or royal throne. Simply somehow or other, by hook and crook, he'll occupy the seat. Therefore people are suffering. It is not... Nowadays, in democratic days, the government by the people, government for the people. So if the government is by the people, yes, you select your representative. If you are a fool, then you will select another fool. So Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Anyone who is not a devotee, Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee of God, then he may be in a exalted post, but he is praised by some people who are exactly like śva. Śva means dog, and viḍ-varāha means pigs who eat stool. Śva-viḍ-varāha. Viḍ-varāha. And uṣṭra, uṣṭra means camel. And uṣṭra-kharaiḥ. Khara means ass. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). If a person who is not a devotee, he is praised or he is exalted, then the praisers, the persons who is praising him, he must be among these animals: dog, camel, pig and ass.
So as you increase your thinking of Kṛṣṇa, then you increase your love of Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is our ultimate goal of life. Premā pum-artho mahān. Premā pum-artho mahān. Everyone is attached to... Those who are human beings... Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41). The karmīs, they want to be religious. They go to temple, church, for some material benefit, "O God, give us our daily bread." That is their purpose. But still, that is accepted. So in this way, we have discussed many times. The jñānī... Who is mahātmā. That is the subject matter here discussed. So jñānī, the mahātmās are to be found not amongst the karmīs, but of the jñānīs, jñānī field. Just like in India, we manufacture some mahātmā. But according to śāstra, he is not mahātmā because he was-Mahatma Gandhi, I mean to say—he was not on the platform of knowledge. He was on the platform of karma, karmī. He wanted to deliver his countrymen from the clutches of the British, Britishers. That was his aim. But because he was not jñānī, he could not understand that "Why I am trying to drive away some people for the benefit of another?" That is a great subject matter.
So that is the law of nature. So nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Then why don't you accept the supreme authority? This subordinate authority... We have to accept somebody as our leader. It is not possible that we can live without leadership. That is not possible. Is there any party, is there any school, or is there any institution that they're conducting without any chief leader or director? Can you show me any instance throughout the whole world? Is there any instance? No. Just like from our camp somebody has left, but he has accepted Gaurasundara or Siddha-svarūpa Mahārāja as chief. The principle is there, that you have to accept one chief. But intelligent is that which, what kind of leadership we shall accept. That is knowledge. We have to accept the servitorship or underhand, to become underhand of some person. So the intelligence is that "Whom we have to accept?" That, there lies intelligence: "What kind of leader we shall accept?"
Here in the Vaikuṇṭha the service is not like that. There is nothing to do, and still, the servants are ready, always ready. They are simply waiting for the order. So master is self-sufficient. He hasn't got to order anybody. This is the there.(?) And here, just the opposite. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. So we are serving most abominably. Sometimes we do things which I should not have done. But still, because I want money, because I want to gratify my senses, I give service. Even very sinful service I give. But still, neither I am satisfied, neither the master is satisfied. This is the position. Everyone is trying to give, the politicians or any. Just I have given the example: Gandhi throughout the whole life gave service, but there were some persons who were not satisfied. It is not possible. Therefore the sensible man should consider that "What is the use of this service?" Just like this Vivekananda society, their daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The daridras are lying on the street, but they collect money in the name of serving the poor, and they live very comfortably—big, big belly. You see. All the sannyāsīs are eating and sleeping and doing everything, all nonsense.
Now, some people came, very prominent men of Bombay, some... They have also invented something to educate or to enlighten the residents of the forest and the mountains. No, no, what you are doing for here? But they are interested... Not interested. It is a hobby. Nobody can be... There is mountain, and suppose, suppose in Africa, there are so many Africans, they are living in the... There is nature's law, but there is a process. This process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by which everyone can be elevated. Not by these material means. Material means, you cannot do that. We are... Just like in the Śukadeva Gosvāmī's statement it is said,
- kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā
- ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
- ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ
- śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ
- (SB 2.4.18)
You can make everyone happy, even the kirāta. Kirāta means the Africans. They are called niṣāda. Niṣāda was born as the son of the king... I forget just now name. Mahārāja Pṛthu's brother.
If one is interested to know that science, then it is necessary to approach Just like Arjuna was busy, perturbed that he has to fight with his relatives, the other side, and they will be killed. And he was presenting so many problems that, If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widow and they will be polluted, and there will be varṇa-saṅkara generation, then the whole world will be hell. In this way he was thinking, the immediate material problems, but when, after arguing with Kṛṣṇa, he could not find out any solution, then Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). "My dear Kṛṣṇa, now I don't want to talk with you as friend, because friendly talk, the talking will be very much, but there will be no benefit." Generally we do so. We talk with some person, some friend, without any duty, just to waste time. That is not the way. If you go and talk with some person, then you must derive some benefit. Gain should be there, otherwise simply waste of time. And it is the injunction of the śāstra that, unless one is submissive, the superior man should not talk, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34), unless one is submissive he will not be able to accept the sublime instruction.
So some people, they do not know that there is another platform of service or another platform of activities which is called Brahman activities, because those who are grossly in the bodily concept of life, they have no information there is Brahman, or soul, within this body. So mukti means to deliver that Brahman from this material encagement. But actually, if you don't give him engagement, because actually the soul is working... That everyone can appreciate. We are very active. "Oh, I am prime minister." "I am president," "I am Birla," "I am Srila (?)," and so many things. That's all right. But is... That prime minister is this body or the soul? Because as soon as the soul is out of the body, what is the value of this prime minister's body? It is no more useful—finished. That we do not understand. Actually, the soul is working in different capacities. Either as prime minister or Lord Brahmā, King Indra, or the cat, or dog, or the insect, the soul is working in different atmosphere, in different body.
Similarly, actual life... Our life means we are enjoying some rasa, some relationship. I enjoy in the family with my children. There is some rasa. They are calling me "father." I am enjoying. Or somebody is calling me as "son." I am enjoying. Some woman is calling me "husband." I am enjoying. Some woman I am calling, "wife." Some person I am calling "servant," and he is calling me... These relationship we enjoy. But this enjoyment is shadow. This is not real enjoyment. We have no information. This enjoyment can be achieved in the similar way with Kṛṣṇa.
So do you think that the ācāryas and the śāstra have advised them to waste their time by worshiping a stone? It is all recommended by the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas. Just like Rāmānujācārya. He established hundreds of temples all over India, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa temple especially, the Rāmānuja-sampradāya. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya established hundreds of temples of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Big, big ācārya. Do you mean to say they did mistake? As some people of our India, they say, "There is no need of worshiping in the temple." No. Why not need? Ācāryopāsanam, that is recommended, jñāna. Ācārya... Ācāryas, they have established temples, many hundreds of thousands of temples, of Viṣṇu mandira.
Just like at the present moment the human society cannot understand what is God, cannot understand. Mumuhe. It is the chance, human form of life, to understand God, and therefore śāstra, Vedānta, says atha, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now you inquire about Brahman." Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata: "Why you are sleeping again? This is a chance." There is a very good example, that some people, they keep that kit-kit(?) bird, and they are trained up to walk on the field and again come in the cage. So the master gives him the chance, "Now, get out. Come in the free field." So if he likes, he can go away, fly away. But his attraction is so acute that after sometimes, walking on the field, again the master says, "Kit, kit, kit, kit." Again he enters. He could fly away. This is a chance.
So we should not think... The real purport of this verse should be understood that if we are misled by thinking that prakṛti is working alone and is giving birth of varieties of things, saviśeṣa, that is wrong theory. It is examplified like—in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta—just like in goats you will find on the neck, on the... It is called neck, or throat? There are some nipples. Have you seen it? So if somebody thinks that "There is nipple; there will be milk also," no. There is no milk. That is different thing. Similarly, if some person foolishly think that material nature, prakṛti, is the cause of varieties of manifestation, that is wrong. That is wrong. It is done by the Puruṣa, the Supreme Person, through the agency of prakṛti. Just like a man begets children through the agency of woman, similarly, the varieties of this material world is due to the Supreme Person, Puruṣa. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam, original, eternal Puruṣa. That is accepted by Arjuna in the Bhagavad-gītā: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Bhavān: "You are puruṣaṁ śāśvatam."
Recently one of our life members—he is a big industrialist—he has jumped from the, what is called, that Daksinasvara(?) Bridge, down to the Ganges. No, Wellington Bridge, I think. So committed suicide. In Western countries also, because there is no end of greediness: "More, more, more, more, more." Ask him that "What will be satisfaction for you?" Oh, there is no such limit. This is rajas and tamas. And some people, they are śūdras. So some political party, by agitation, by propaganda, makes them convinced to accept some way, and they do it. Another party will do another... They have no their own discretion. They elect some president, and again they want to dethrone the president. Because they are śūdras, they have no intelligence. They do not know how to elect the president, who should be the governor, who should be the executive head. They commit mistake. They again cry.
So devotion What is devotional service? Śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-seva... (SB 7.5.23). We have to follow these nine principles of devotional service, especially this śravanam, kīrtanam and arcanam, arcanam, worshiping the Deity, and śravanaṁ kīrtanam. Even if you follow one, that is sufficient, but there are nine different processes. As far as possible, we shall execute everything, and, at least, śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam, arcanam. Arcana is very important. For kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, devotee in the lower stage, arcana is very, very important. Although the devotee in the higher stage, he also offers worship, but Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. For a neophyte devotee Just like some people say that "Why you should go to the temple? Kṛṣṇa is everywhere." Who was asking that question? "Kṛṣṇa cannot be served..." Here, last night. I think those girls, svarṇa(?) girls. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, that is a fact, but that is for the paramhaṁsa, one who is very very advanced. For the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he cannot He, like parrot, he can say, "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere." He must be educated, "Here is Kṛṣṇa in the temple." Otherwise it is simply blaspheme, that "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere." That's a fact, but where is your realization? Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Have you got that realization? Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Have you got that realization, that Kṛṣṇa is within your heart? Can you talk with Kṛṣṇa? He says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I talk." Buddhi yogaṁ-dadāmi tam. Kṛṣṇa gives intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving, but have you got that realization?
Acyutānanda: Do you think Kṛṣṇa consciousness will last forever? Some people accuse that you are hippies.
Prabhupāda: Some people says, "You are hippie." So you take that. What can be done? These are all nonsense questions. Any other question?
Acyutānanda: Even after repeated chanting of Kṛṣṇa-nāma, I could not get solace due to family worry. May I leave the family to bear faith and devote myself to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: He wants to know if he should leave his family and become a devotee, because...
Prabhupāda: No, we never said that. Just now we explained. ye vā mayīśe kṛta-sauhṛdārthā, you keep your intimate relationship with Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether you are in family or without family. It doesn't matter. Just like I have given already example. Arjuna, he is a family man, he is not a sannyāsī. Not only family man, a military man, and politician, but he was prepared to sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. If you do not become a family man, so what is the gain there? Or if you remain a sannyāsī, if you have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just like you said, "So many swamis they want to become Kṛṣṇa instead of becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa." So this kind of sannyāsī is also useless. Similarly, gṛhastha, if he's simply attached to family, that is also useless. Any condition of life, if you remain fixed-up with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your perfection of life. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya (CC Madhya 8.128). Anyone who is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and fixed-up in devotional service, knowing fully well what is Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. It doesn't matter whether he is a sannyāsī, or gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, and śūdra. It doesn't matter. Is that all right? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla-kṛṣṇa: Some people have questions. Do you want to answer them?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla-kṛṣṇa: No need? Kīrtana?
Prabhupāda: They do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. Jaya.
Girirāja: We're inviting all of you to remain for... (break) (end)
Guest (2): How do you convince a person who says..., that they are suffering, when they're actually, when they're saying they are happy and not afraid to die?
Madhudvīṣa: Someone who is not afraid to die and says that he's not suffering, how do...
Prabhupāda: He is a madman. (laughter) That's all. Who is caring for madman's word?
Devotee (5): It's very easy to convince some people that they're not their bodies, but it's not very easy to convince them that they're not their minds. Is there some way we can...
Prabhupāda: That will take time. How can you expect that in one minute everyone will understand everything? It requires education, time. If he is prepared to give the time, then he will understand, not that within five minutes, ten minutes, he will understand the whole thing. That is not possible. He is a diseased man. He requires treatment, medicine, and diet. In this way he will understand. A diseased man, if he doesn't care for medicine, diet, then he will suffer. That's all. Yes? Anyone? No?
Devotee (6): If we've been here lifetime after lifetime performing impious activities, does it mean that we have to be here lifetime after lifetime performing pious activities to balance out our sinful reactions?
Madhudvīṣa: We have been here for many lifetimes performing sinful activities. So is it possible to counteract all those sinful activities in one lifetime, or does it require many...?
Prabhupāda: One minute. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. One minute. You are not reading Bhagavad-gītā? What Kṛṣṇa says? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "You surrender unto Me. Give up your all business. I will give you relief from all sinful reaction immediately." So it requires one minute. "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I was forgotten. Now I understand. I fully surrender unto you." Then you become immediately free from all sinful reactions.
When Viśvamitra Muni went to see Mahārāja Daśaratha to ask the help of Lord Rāmacandra and Lakṣmaṇa... There was a demon. They were disturbing in the forest. The saintly persons were disturbed. They could kill that demon, but because they were brāhmaṇas, saintly person, they did not like the killing business in their own hand. That was the system. A brāhmaṇa will not kill. A brāhmaṇa, simply by cursing, he can kill. Doesn't require even open... Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was cursed by a boy brāhmaṇa that within seven days he'll be bitten by a snake and he'll die. The brāhmaṇas were so powerful. So brāhmaṇa is not joke. In Kali-yuga there is no such brāhmaṇa. So this Viśvamitra Muni came to Mahārāja Daśaratha to request that "Send your sons Rāmacandra and Laksmana to kill these demons." Kṣatriyas' business is... Kṣat. Kṣat means injury. If somebody is injuring your body, it is the duty of the government to save you: "Why unnecessarily you are injuring this...?" Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was going... And some person was śūdra in the dress of the king. He was trying to kill a cow. Immediately Parīkṣit Mahārāja took his sword: "Who are you, rascal, you are trying to kill a cow in my kingdom?" That is kṣatriya.
So Veda, here it is said that vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. But Nārāyaṇa is nothing of this material world. Similarly, Veda is nothing of this material world. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. So you cannot... Therefore Vedic authority is so evidential... Because it is not manufactured by any material person. It is... Nārāyaṇa, or God God created this world. So God was existing before this creation, and Veda means before the creation, the laws and the words which were existing, that is Veda. Somebody may argue that "This is written by some scholar or some learned person." No, Veda is not like that. Veda is coming directly from Nārāyaṇa, and Nārāyaṇa means God. God was existing before the creation. Because God created, therefore God existed before the creation, so whatever we get out of this created world, that is not Veda. If some person, great philosopher of this material world, he thinks, he says "I believe," and he writes something, that is nonsense. That is not Veda. Because he is a created being, and as created being he has got four defects. The most important defect is that his senses are imperfect. Therefore by sense perception, by so-called mental speculation, whatever he creates, that is defective. That is not perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is there, Veda, because Vedas existed before the creation.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: And some people I have told that they are the friends of Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone, not only they. Anyone. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Anyone who will accept this principle, he will be elevated. That's all. But his brain is filled, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Why not Aurobindo? He is greater than Kṛṣṇa." You see?
Guest: I don't think he is greater than Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest: He has told only,"Ahaṁ brahmāsmi."
Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ brahmāsmi... Not he says, but his disciple says.
Guest: These things are wrong then. What is wrong with guru?
Prabhupāda: And why you did not follow it, that "Why? What we are...?" Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. As soon as he was addressed "Kṛṣṇa," He was doing like this: "Oh, what you are nonsense speaking?" That should be done. He was enjoying: "Yes. I am greater than Kṛṣṇa. Oh." Because he is leader of the fools, so he is a great fool. Because leader—a great man becomes leader—so he is a fool, so he is a great fool. That's all. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His practical... He was Kṛṣṇa Himself. So as soon as He was addressed that "You are Kṛṣṇa..." When He went to Vṛndāvana... The incident is that people saw at night some light in Yamunā dancing. So people thought that "Kṛṣṇa has again come and He is curbing down the Kāliya." So people gathered. Every night they used to gather on the bank of the Yamunā that "Kṛṣṇa has again come." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had one personal assistant, Balabhadra. So he asked permission from Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "Can I go and see Kṛṣṇa? So many people are going." And Caitanya..., "Don't be foolish. Where is Kṛṣṇa?" So next morning some people came to see Him, Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked them, "How you have seen Kṛṣṇa?" Then some intelligent person, "No, no. It was all wrong impression. It was not Kṛṣṇa. Some fisherman was fishing at night and there was light. The light was dancing like that, and these people took that Kṛṣṇa is dancing." So actually Kṛṣṇa was present during that time because Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. But He never said that "I am Kṛṣṇa." He never said.
So dharma, this religion, so although it is very difficult to understand, still, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, it has been made very simple and easy. Unfortunately, people have no faith. They do not believe. They think something cumberous, something speculative, something very difficult is the process of executing religion. No. Yamarāja says that etāvān eva loke 'smin puṁsāṁ dharmaḥ paraḥ smṛtaḥ: "The highest principle of religion is this." What is that? Bhakti-yogaḥ bhagavati. Bhakti-yoga. One may... Just like some people, some foolish say, "Bhakti-yoga... I have got very much devotion to Goddess Kālī, to Goddess Durgā, or so many demigods. This is also bhakti." No. Bhakti-yoga means bhagavati. Love means love of Godhead. Otherwise, there is no love—only lust. Similarly, bhakti means, when this word used, bhakti-yoga, that is only in relationship with the bhakta, or devotee, and Bhagavān. That is called bhakti-yoga. Nāma, harer nāma, not that any name. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Any name can be applied to Kṛṣṇa indirectly, but directly... We are concerned directly. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). We have to cultivate Kṛṣṇa not indirectly. Indirectly, everything is worshiping Kṛṣṇa, because there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa, he was thinking of Kṛṣṇa indirectly as enemy. Therefore, that is not bhakti. Bhakti means Kṛṣṇa consciousness favorably, directly.
No. First of all... Just like there is some gentlemanly behavior: even if you are angry on some person, but you do not show your anger; you talk with him. Similarly, actually these persons are demons, but because we are preacher, we are preaching, if we simply become angry and cannot convince him, that means imperfect preacher. You see? You are... Basically you are angry. That's all. "I don't agree with them; neither we have business." But because we are preacher, so if I simply become angry, then my preaching work will be stopped. Do you follow? The anger is there, but because we are preacher, we have to... Just like politicians. They are angry upon the enemy, but sometimes, by diplomatic means, they take their work from the enemies. You see? Not that they show the anger always. Similarly, when you go to preaching, first of all try to convince him that "How you become God? What is your definition of God?" You simply ask, "What do you mean by 'God,' that you are claiming to be God? If you come under that definition, then you are God." Just like if somebody claims that "I am millionaire. I am very rich," a poor man, walking on the street with niggardly dress, if he claims that "I am rich man," will you accept? Then he is crazy. If he is claiming that "I am millionaire," then you have to ask that "Where is your sign of being a millionaire? You have no good dress. Your feature is so ugly. How you are millionaire? What is the definition of a millionaire?" First ask him.
Devotee: He said God means everything, and they say that God is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Are you everywhere? Now you are on the street. Are you in your home?
Devotee: Some people say they are, though. They say, "I am everything."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Are you President Johnson? If you are everything, then why you are abiding by the state laws? You are under the state laws. If you say in the police station, "I am everything. You cannot say anything," will it be accepted? How do you say you are everything? You are crazy. Yes.
Girl devotee: That's what it comes down to, really.
Prabhupāda: So if you are not crazy, then we can talk with you. You are crazy. How you are everything? Prove that you are everything. What is the answer? What should be the answer that he is everything? Simply by claiming? If you simply, falsely claim that "I am everything of this city. Everything belongs to me," will that stabilize him, that he is everything? Then? How you are everything? Prove it.
Prabhupāda: So therefore as you are thinking that they should not have done, they are thinking you should have done. The real question is that they are following a system. So in that system the spiritual master is offered respect in that way. There is a system. And they don't feel any uneasiness by doing that.
Guest: But if I were to enter politics and..., and suppose I were to attack some people who have actually the leadership of foreign powers or something like that, and newspaper man would tell my opponents that that man has... (break)
Prabhupāda: Newspaper man has poor vision. He's seeing "Indian" and "American" and "Canadian." So his vision is poor. If anyone thinks that "This Swamiji is coming from India, and the Americans or Canadians, they are offering their respect in that way," so he has to expand his vision in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Just like it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that,
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
So these obei... (break) ...is taught, just like Kṛṣṇa is asking everybody, Arjuna, that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is our system. Just like anyone who comes to the temple, he at once offers by falling flat, offering respect to the Deity. And the spiritual master is accepted as representative of the Deity. He's the living representative. That is the system everywhere. Just like in our India somebody was going as viceroy, representative of the King in England. Oh, he was being offered all the respect of a king. Nobody bothered, "Oh, he's coming from England. Why a brāhmaṇa should offer respect to the viceroy?" No. They never grudged. That is a system.
Mālatī: When they go back to Godhead, some people can remember their past lives.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mālatī: In the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mālatī: I thought the mind was left behind.
Prabhupāda: No. Actually mind carries you to the next body. So mind goes with you. The material mind, material ego, material intelligence become nil when you are completely liberated. But at that time your spiritual mind acts. It is not very difficult to understand. Somebody is acting under the impression... Just like one of our students, he was acting under the impression that he is Frenchman and doing something subversive, and now he is thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa's." (chuckles) He has stopped all those nonsense. (break) When he was thinking that he's a Frenchman, that mind was there. And now he's thinking that "I am Kṛṣṇa's," the mind is there. So where is the chance of losing the mind? You want to question anything? (break) This boy?
Haṁsadūta: She. It's a girl.
Prabhupāda: It is a girl? Oh. That's all right. (chuckles) So any other questions? Otherwise chant Kṛṣṇa.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So they know Kṛṣṇa is the original person. And it is confirmed by Brahmā in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara means controller. So everyone can become īśvara. Here, our minister Saheb is present. He's īśvara. Īśvara means controller. He is controller of a department. Similarly, there are many ministers in our country and other countries. Many presidents. They are īśvaras. And a common man, he is also īśvara. He's controlling his family. At least he's controlling his dog, cat. So everyone is īśvara. Just like the modern theory is going on. "Everyone is God." That's all right. God means īśvara, controller. But there are different qualities of controller. I may be controller of my disciples, a few dozen or few hundred. But there are controllers, millions. They are controlling millions. Therefore my control and his control is not equal. Therefore you find out one controller of another. Everyone is relative controller. He controls and he becomes controlled. Nobody's absolute controller. Just like our Minister Saheb. He's controller, but he's also controlled. So when you come to the point, if you find out some person that he's simply controller, not controlled, He's Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is simply controller, not controlled, He's Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is simply controller. When Kṛṣṇa was present on this planet... You see the history of His life. He simply controlled. He never became controlled. He was controller. Therefore the verdict of the śāstra, Vedic literature, is that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ.
People may not misunderstand our propagation that we are proselytizing some persons to Hinduism. Yesterday one so-called jñānī came to me, and he challenged me that "Swamijī, formerly the Christians used to convert the Hindus and the Muhammadans used to convert the Hindus into Muhammadanism or Christianism. Now you are converting the Christians into Hinduism. Then where is the difference between their activities and your activities?" So this fool does not know this is not making a person from Christian to Hindu. This is not the process. We are not interested. I never said in any meeting in the Western countries that "Hindu religion is better than your Christian religion. You give up your Christian religion and come to Hindu religion." No, that was not my propaganda. There are many old students here present. They may remember. I never made propaganda. Rather when they inquired one can attain perfection by following Christian principles, I said yes. So our propaganda is not to proselytize people from Christian to Hinduism. Our propaganda is to make everyone know this fact, that everyone is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is our propaganda. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is our propaganda. We are trying to convince people that "Your original position is servant of Kṛṣṇa. You have now forgotten that. You revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you'll become happy." That is our propaganda.
So they are also becoming interested, hūṇa, āndhra and others who are considered to be low-born according to Vedic civilization. But still, the Vedic civilization does not prohibit anyone to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By our karma, we may be high born or low born. That does not matter. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any material impediment. That is not possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is natural. And Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). He says that even though some people are considered to be pāpa-yoni, low-born, it doesn't matter, but he can accept the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā. Still more low-born than these people, śudhyanti, they can be purified if they actually take shelter of a pure devotee. They can be purified. That is the injunction of the śāstras, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śudhyanti. People may argue how such low-born people can be purified. That reply is: prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. It is the supreme power of Lord Viṣṇu. It is possible.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So Kṛṣṇa says also, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior entity than Me." So we have to very carefully study Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to understand Kṛṣṇa very scientifically. It is not sentiment. One must be very philosophically advanced with scientific knowledge. Jñānaṁ vijñānam. This is vijñāna. It is not sentiment. Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitam. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Without vijñāna, science, without philosophy to understand Kṛṣṇa, is not possible. You can say that "Do you think that all the devotees, they are all scientist and philosopher?" Yes. The answer is yes. "No, they have no degree of science or philosophy." And still... Because if you learn science and philosophy, you will have to approach some person who knows the science, knows the philosophy. But the greatest scientist, the greatest philosopher, is Kṛṣṇa. He is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmy aham (BG 10.10). Anyone who is sincere devotee and always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, Kṛṣṇa says, "I give him education, intelligence. I make him scientist, philosopher." That is the way. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi. What kind of science? What kind of philosophy? Yena mām upayānti te.
So wherefrom the chunk came? That is not... That is their brain fag, that they are simply trying to get everything from matter. That is their material brain. But we see here that the origin is not matter. Origin is Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu. So Mahā-Viṣṇu is the supreme soul, mahā, Mahā-Viṣṇu. So we cannot accept such nonsense theory, that chunk exploded. Where is the evidence that a chunk explodes automatically? How nonsense theory it is. We haven't got experience. There is explosion of big, big mountains when there is dynamite, and the dynamite is given by some person. So how explosion can take place without the hand of somebody else, some living entity? This simple theory they cannot understand, that where is the evidence that matter acts automatically? Where is the evidence? How you can say that there was a chunk? Suppose there was a chunk. First of all, the question will be: "Who made this chunk?" And then again, next question will be: "How explosion took place unless there was some living being to explode, as we have got experience that sometimes we explode, explode the mountain with dynamite, and that is arranged by a living being?" So they have no common sense even, and they are passing as big, big philosopher, scientist. Then where is the evidence? Can anyone say? Is there any evidence that matter explodes without a living being's touch? Is there any? No.
There is a very nice story in this connection. There was a physician and his servant. So one day the physician was called by some person to treat his horse. So when the physician came, he asked, "What is the matter?" He says that "The horse has suddenly swollen his throat. So please treat." Then the physician took a hammer and strongly struck the swollen portion, and it was at once cured. The servant saw, "So this is the process of curing swollen parts of the body." So on that very day, he resigned his service and he thought that "Now I have learned how to cure swollen parts of the body," and whenever he was called to treat such disease, he used to hammer over that swollen part and the patient died. So when he came to his former master, "Sir, you cured that horse, the swollen part, by beating hammer, but when I treat, it dies, the patient dies. What is the matter?" So he explained, "You nonsense, the swollen is not cured by beating. That was a special case. The horse took a squash while he was in the garden, and he could not swallow it up. Therefore it was swollen. So I struck therefore, and it was broken, and the same thing, his swollenness, cured. But you foolish, you are simply striking on swollen parts?"
So we are discussing three kinds of energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yesterday the question was, some gentleman, that whether the ultimate truth, Absolute Truth, is a person or imperson. There are many impersonalists, and there are many personalists also. The personalists, impersonalists, and the localized Paramātmā worshipers, they are worshiping the same Absolute Truth in different features. Impersonal Brahman and localized Paramātmā and Personality of Godhead, They're one and the same. It is the process of realization only, that somebody is realizing the Absolute Truth as imperson and somebody is realizing the Absolute Truth as all-pervading Paramātmā, Antaryami, and some persons are realizing the Absolute Truth as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. But they are advaya-jñāna, identical, the same thing. It is our power of perception only that makes the difference. The object is the same.
So these things are there, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. Manda-bhāgyā, also, very poor. In this age, practically everyone is very poor, mostly, the population. You don't think that in America there is no poor man. There is poor man. Although they are getting money, very large sum of money, but they are utilizing in a different way, and they are poor. There are many poor. Intentionally, they have become poor. So therefore it is called manda-bhāgyā, that this... Each word of the Vedic scriptures is so nice. In spite of... In America I have seen. In spite of ample money and resources, some people have voluntarily accepted to remain as very poor and wretched. Voluntarily. They like that. They have no systematic life. Therefore Bhāgavata says, manda-bhāgyā. If we are unfortunate, even despite all facilities, we cannot be able to accept it. That is called misfortune. Not that in the absence of money and other facilities, one becomes unfortunate, but even in the presence of all these things, one is unfortunate. That is the characteristics of this age. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10).
Just like we are now associating with Lord Kṛṣṇa's, Lord Caitanya's, teaching. He is a great devotee. This is called sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga tathā bhajana-kriyā. Then bhajana-kriyā, how to execute. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching. You will gradually know what is the bhajana-kriyā, how to execute devotional service. That we shall come later on. Tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. And as soon as your devotional service, prescribed duties, are discharged, you become free from all material contamination. That is the test. Tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā. Then you become firmly convinced. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruci. Then taste. Athāsakti: then you cannot give it up, at any circumstances cannot give it up. Athāsaktis tato bhāvas: then you become fully in samādhi, in trance. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādur... These are the steps of attaining love of God. Love of God is not that you can immediately go and purchase from the market in the store. You have to practice it. The love is there within you. It is not artificial, neither an imposition by some person or... No. It is already there. If you kindly become submissively hearing this, by hearing only, and if you practice, it will be very nice and quickly we shall develop.
"Out of millions and millions persons, some persons are interested in self-realization, not all." That we can see. Some of you... There are thousands and thousands of persons. Some of you are interested to understand this, so you kindly come here. Therefore manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of millions and millions persons, somebody becomes interested in self-realization." Then yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Now, out of those persons who are trying to realize self, out of such millions and millions persons, somebody may know what is God." So it is not very easy. But it is easy also. For whom? Who at once surrenders to God. Then God reveals to him. And one who does not surrender, oh, it is very difficult for him. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau (Bs. 5.33). You cannot find out God by simply reading and philosophizing all the scriptures and books. No. If you want to know God, then you must be in confidence. You must be a devotee, a lover of God. Then you can understand God. Otherwise it is not possible.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
So God realization, if you follow that... Immediately, by your blunt senses, either God, His form, His name, His quality, His paraphernalia cannot be perceived. The present senses are blunt. Therefore in the present situation or the civilization they have become godless, because naturally they have no power to understand God, neither they are guided by some persons who can make them understand what is God. Therefore people are becoming godless, atheist. But if you read all these Vedic literatures under superior guidance, if you follow the rules and regulation, then svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. God will be revealed unto you. You cannot see God or understand God by your own endeavor. You have to surrender to the process by which God can be known. Then He will be revealed. Otherwise not. He is supreme controller. You are being controlled. So how you can control God? "Oh, God, please come here. I will see You." No, no. God is not so cheap thing that by your order God will come and become seen by you. No. That is not possible. You must always know that "He's the supreme controller and I am also controlled. So if I can please God by my service, then He'll reveal to me." That is the process of knowing God.
Festival Lectures
"Their only business is chewing the chewed." They have no other ways. Gṛha-vratānām, those who want to be happy materially, actually they are chewing the chewed. Material happiness means sex life, ultimate, utmost, topmost happiness. So people are simply trying to, how to utilize this sex life in so many ways, in pictures and in... I do not wish to discuss. In dancing, in club, in so many ways. Because they cannot control the senses. The same thing, same thing, the same sex life in different way. Sometimes a naked dance, sometimes in this way, sometimes in that way. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām. I have heard that some people go to Florida and they spend fifty thousand dollars per week for organizing naked dance. So naked woman he has seen so many times, but still he spends more money to see it in a different way. That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), "chewing the chewed."
So our, this Vaiṣṇava philosophy, process, is to go through the ācārya. Servant of the servant of the servant. We should try to become servant of the servant. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). Dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. We should not approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly. That is not good. That will not be... In the Vedic injunction also it is said, yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). If one has got unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, yathā deve, and similar faith in guru... Of course, we must make guru bona fide. Then it is disciplic succession. And that is also not very difficult to select, who is bona fide guru. Bona fide guru means he presents himself as servant of God. He does not pose himself falsely that "I am God." This is bona fide. It is not difficult to find out bona fide. But this is the test. If anyone says that "I am guru," er, "I am God," then he cannot be guru. Because he has no knowledge. How he is God? But he can cheat some people. That is different thing. You can cheat all people for some time and some people for all time, but not all people for all time. That is not possible. So these kinds of guru, who poses themself that "I am God," he's a false guru. The bona fide guru will say that "I am servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa," or God. Servant of (CC Madhya 13.80). That is the business of guru. He serves Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa desires; that is his business. That is also not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says, Kṛṣṇa desires, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), that "You give up all other engagement; just surrender unto Me, and I'll give you protection." Kṛṣṇa says. So guru's business is that "You simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa." What is the difficulty? Simply repeat the same thing. Not for himself, but for Kṛṣṇa. He's bona fide guru.
Embryo cord. That embryo cord was like this. Yes. That means brāhmaṇa from the beginning. You see? So when he was a child... He appeared in February. Then... When the Ratha-yātrā takes place? In July. So February, March, April, May, June, July. So when he was six months old, the Ratha-yātrā festival was held. And by chance the big cart stopped in front of that house. That is generally in the Jagannātha car stops. Just like our car also stops somewhere. And you have some difficulty to push it again? That's nice. That also happens in Jagannātha Purī. It was stopped, and some people were... Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to push with His head. So that was wonderful. So anyway the car stopped, and mother of our Guru Mahārāja, the child Guru Mahārāja, so she took the opportunity, and because she was manager's wife, so everyone respected with the child. So she put the child on the leg of Jagannātha. And as there are so many garlands, one garland immediately fell on the child. Yes. Automatically. So in this way Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura could understand that "This child is not ordinary child," and he knew that "I prayed to Gaurasundara to send me somebody. So this boy, this child, is sent by Him." So he took care of him very carefully. And in this way his name was Bimala Prasāda, Bimala Prasāda Datta.
There was agitation in India, perhaps you know, that Gandhi stamped some persons as Harijana. Harijana. They were coming from the bhaṅgīs. Bhaṅgīs means sweepers or the cleaners of the toilet room. So Gandhi accepted them. The government was creating, British government was creating faction between high caste, low caste. So Gandhi thought that, "I shall make these bhaṅgīs and camars as Harijana, as great devotees." But simply by rubberstamping, how one can become devotee? That is not possible. Without going the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī, they remain the same unclean drunkard and the all nonsense habits. And simply by stamping rubberstamping, Harijana? No. Here what we are doing, it is not rubberstamping. It is actually training according to the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī. We are training our boys to become brāhmaṇas, to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities, to take bath, to take this, take that. And above all, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ceto-darpaṇa-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing of all sinful activities. So in this way Harijana can be made, but not that you pick up somebody nonsense and rubberstamp this "Harijana." No. There must be process.
Actually, so-called gentlemen who are, I mean to say, supporting these butchers, they are also butchers. According to Manu-saṁhitā, there are eight kinds of butchers. The man who is killing the animal, the man who is ordering to kill the animal, the man who is skinning the animal, the man who is purchasing the meat, the man who is cooking, the man who is eating, they are called all butchers. Just like if there is a murder case and there is a conspiracy, so it is not the man who has directly killed some person, he is arrested, but everyone who is in the conspiracy, they are all arrested. That is the common law. So in that sense everyone is butcher. Besides that, because a person is killing some cow or some animal, we are calling butcher, but mostly they are killing their soul. Anyone who is unconscious, who is ignorant of his spiritual identity, identifying himself with this body and misusing this opportunity of human form of life simply for animal sense gratification, they are also butchers. If killing of some living entity is butchery, then how great a butcher is he who is killing himself? He is killing an animal, but he is killing himself. Ātma-hā. Ātma-hā, self-killing, out of ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance. Any sinful activity is done out of ignorance. So ignorance is no excuse. The butcher is killing animal because he does not know what is the effect of this killing. Similarly, persons who do not know what is the value of this human form of life and simply spoiling it just like animals, they are also butchering themselves.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
All of them are going to Russia to take birth. Yes. Not Russian people are bad. That is a mistake. Some of them. Some people are good. That I have experienced. Otherwise how... (aside:) Don't do that. Otherwise how that Anatole came to become my...? And there are many like that, mostly like him. It is by artificial suppression that it has been advertised, "The Russian people are all Communist." That's not fact. That's not fact. Simply some rogues and thieves and demons, by threats... It is a country of, what is called? Terrorism. A terror. People have decided to leave this country, but they cannot leave. Mostly Russians, they want to leave that country, and some of them already done so. Many Russians have fled away. Many Chinese men have fled away. They don't like this philosophy.
oman Reporter: ...The point is that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has been what some people would consider sexist or racist because certain propensities for women and for blacks have been defined, either by the devotees or by the Vedic scriptures, I'm not sure which. And I wondered if you would comment on that.
Brahmānanda: It has been alleged that our movement is against women and against Negroes because we do not give them... What is it?
Woman Reporter: Well, not necessarily against them, but defining inferior roles for them by their natural traits.
Brahmānanda: Give inferior roles to women and to Negroes.
Prabhupāda: We give equal roles spiritually. Materially, one man is servant; one man is master. How you can avoid this? Do you think everyone will be master, nobody will be servant, materially? Materially, one is father, one is son, one is master, one is servant, one is man, one is woman. How can you stop this? But spiritually, they are all equal.
Initiation Lectures
According to nature's division, there are four classes of men: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdra. Brāhmaṇa means the intellectual class of men who knows hygienic rules, keeps himself always purified and engaged in studying Vedic literatures for understanding this world, God, himself, the interrelation. They are called brāhmaṇa. And the kṣatriya means those who live their life under the instruction of the brāhmaṇa but they are engaged in administration of the state, they are called kṣatriyas. Then vaiśyas, still less intelligent class. The brāhmaṇa is the first intelligent class of men, the kṣatriyas, the next intelligent class of men, and the vaiśyas, or the mercantile class of men interested in money by trade, commerce, agriculture, industry, they are called vaiśyas. So next, the last class is called śūdra. Śūdra means workers. They haven't got much intelligence, neither they can work as administrator or traders but they work and get some salary. They are called śūdras. So śuci means the first-class intellectual class of men. So anyone who is always chanting the holy name of God and keeps himself purified, he is śuci. Śuci means the first-class purified intelligent class of men. So they are called brāhmaṇas in Sanskrit. So it is not that the brāhmaṇas are to be found in India only. Any intelligent class of men, anyone who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is brāhmaṇa. In this initiation ceremony there will be some persons who will be initiated for chanting the holy name, and some of them will be initiated for the second time. They were initiated before for chanting the holy name; now they will be initiated with a sacred thread. Sacred thread means recognition of complete brahminical culture.
General Lectures
If you want to understand the spiritual science, then you have to approach to a person where you can completely surrender yourself. Because everyone is proud: "Oh, who can teach me? Why shall I go to a spiritual master? I know everything." That is the general mentality. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā gives us direction that you should go to a person where you can fully surrender. So you have to find out a bona fide spiritual master where you can surrender your pride. Then tad viddhi praṇipātena. Praṇiptena means surrender. Paripraśnena. If you find out such, if you are fortunate enough to find out some person where you can surrender, then you can put questions before him. That Sanātana Gosvāmī is putting, that "What is my position? I think that I am very learned man, I am born of very aristocratic family and so on, so on, but actually, I do not know what I am. What is my position?" This is paripraśna, inquiry. Surrender, inquiry, and sevayā. That answer should be received in service mood.
That is now nationalism—some country. Somebody says, "I love this American land." Somebody says, "I love this Chinese land." Somebody says, "I love the Russian land." So everyone wants to love some land. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. People are naturally inclined to love some material land. Generally, where he is born he tries to love. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Because you are inclined to love some person, you love Kṛṣṇa. Because you want to love some land, you love Vṛndāvana." Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. But if somebody says, "How to love Kṛṣṇa? I cannot see Kṛṣṇa. How to love Kṛṣṇa?" then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. If you want to know the process of worshiping Kṛṣṇa, or loving Kṛṣṇa, just try to follow the footprints of the gopīs. Gopīs. The gopīs, their love, the highest perfectional love. Ramyā kācid upāsanā. There are different kinds of love or worship in the world. The beginning is, "O God, give us our daily bread." This is beginning. When we are, I mean to say, taught to love God, we are instructed that "You go to temple, go to church, and pray to God for your necessities, for your grievances." That is the beginning. But that is not pure love. Pure love, perfection of pure love, can be found amongst the gopīs. That is the example.
Young man (6): Well, but don't you think that perhaps bhakti-yoga isn't the way for everyone?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man (6): That for some people other yogas would apply more to their...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the preliminary stage. Just like the same example, that you have to go... In New York that Empire State Building, 102 story. So everyone is going to the top, but somebody has passed ten steps, somebody has passed twelve steps, somebody has passed twenty. But there may be thousands of steps. So one who has gone to the top, he has passed all the steps. Similarly, there are different process of yogas—karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga... They are divided into three. All these three yogas are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga. But you'll find the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. When yoga is described in the Sixth Chapter, you'll find the Lord says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: "Of all the yogic process," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ madgatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47), "one who has taken Me within himself," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām, "and with faith and love is engaged in My service, he is first-class yogi." So the first-class yogi are all these Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls.
Young man (5): I have known some people who have meditated, and they don't know how to meditate, and they try to meditate, as I say, on the astral, and they contact the incarnate souls in the astral world. And sometimes they get ahold of the wrong one. And when their mind is left open, these spirits or incarnate souls that are not good will take over the mind of a person. Now, how can one avoid this?
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can avoid all rubbish things by simply keeping your consciousness in Kṛṣṇa. That's all. It is a very simple thing. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are great souls, they're always chanting, glorifying the Lord. So there is no opportunity of engaging the mind in something else which is nonsense. We are teaching our student, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..." He is being practiced to this. He cannot avoid it. Even if he goes on the street he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. His samādhi... He hasn't got to attain samādhi; the samādhi is going with him, samādhi. It is so nice thing, and easy. They are not practicing breathing exercise or sitting exercise. No. They are ordinary boys and girls. But simply by chanting they are making practical progress.
So you have to continue that first-class yoga system, and that is explained here, mayy āsakta-manāḥ: being attached. Mind is the vehicle for being attached. If you are attached to somebody, some boy, some girl, some person... Generally, we become attached to a person. Impersonal attachment is bogus thing. If you want to be attached, that attachment must be personal. Is it not a fact? Impersonal attachment... You cannot love the sky, but you can love the sun, you can love the moon, you can love the stars, because they are localized person. And if you want to love the sky, it is very difficult for you. You have to come again to this sun. So yoga system, culminating in perfection, in love... So you have to love somebody, person. That is Kṛṣṇa. Just like here is a picture. Rādhārāṇī is loving Kṛṣṇa and offering His (Her) flowers to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is playing with His flute.
Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). There are four classes of men created by God: cātur-varṇyaṁ. How they are divided? How the classification is made? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: by classification of quality and work. Not by birth. In India, of course, this classification of guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ was originally planned from the Vedic age. But later on, a class of men, without any qualification, without any practical work, they claimed that "I belong to such and such class." Therefore India's falldown was inevitable. So Bhagavad-gītā says, "Not like that." Bhagavad-gītā says that these classes of men, cātur-varṇyaṁ—the brahminical class, the kṣatriya class, the vaiśya class, and the śūdra class—is everywhere. Not only in India, but also throughout the whole universe, in every country, in every nation, in every society, there must be some people who have brahminical tendency. Just like from your country, we have picked up some boys and girls who are inclined to adopt this way of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply picking up where there are brahminical class of boys, girls, men. Not that we are taking account, "Oh, who is your father? Is your father a brāhmaṇa?" No. We don't take account. His father may be anything; it doesn't matter. But if he has got tendency to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we immediately welcome: "Come on." And we teach him this brahminical qualification—to become brahmacārī, not to indulge in illicit sex life, don't take nonvegetarian diet.
People are after becoming religious person or economically very well situated person or desiring all facilities for sense gratification. And when one is frustrated in all these attempts, he wants to become God. You see? By meditation, he wants to become God. You see? God is not so cheap thing that simply by meditation one can become God. People do not know what is God; therefore they accept. Just in Los Angeles airport, one boy was asking, some person in your country is declaring himself as God, Meher Baba. So he asked him..., asked me, "Whether you accept Meher Baba as incarnation?" So I asked him, "What do you mean by incarnation?" So he replied that because Kṛṣṇa or God is everyone's heart, therefore everyone is incarnation. Then he... I said, "Then what is difficulty? Then we are all incarnation. What is the specific quality of Meher Baba?" Because īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). The Lord is situated in everyone's heart. The Lord is situated in the heart of cats and dogs also. Sarva-bhūtānām. Sarva-bhūtānām means all living entities. It is not that God is not situated in the cat's heart or dog's heart. He is there.
So one has to, from the bodily concept of life, one has to transcend himself to the spiritual platform. That is the whole, meaning of whole process. Just like I began to say that in the beginning our self-realization means we are thinking this body. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur (BG 3.42). Then one who has transcended this bodily concept of life, he comes to the platform of mind. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Manaḥ means mind. Somebody, some people, some of..., practically the whole population of the world, they are under the bodily concept of life, and, above them, there are some people who are on the mental concept of life. They are thinking mind. And somebody is on the intellectual platform of life.
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu parā buddhiḥ...
- (BG 3.42)
Buddhiḥ means intelligence. And, when you transcend the intellectual platform also, then you come to the spiritual platform. That realization first of all required. Before you practice transcendental realization, you have to reach to the transcendental platform. That transcendental platform is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Perhaps you have heard this word, Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is transcendentalist, that "I am not this body, I am not this mind, I am not this intelligence, but I am spirit soul." That platform. Then what is the symptoms of a person who has reached that platform? Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). When you reach to the platform of Brahman realization... Brahman realization means transcending. We are talking on the transcendental meditation. So transcending the bodily concept of life, transcending the mental concept of life, transcending the intellectual concept of life, when you come to the real spiritual platform, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage.
One of them was Rūpa Gosvāmī, one of them was Sanātana Gosvāmī, the chief of the Gosvāmīs. And He talked with also Rāmānanda Raya, another stalwart. He was also statesman, he was governor of Madras on behalf of the then king of Orissa, Mahārāja Pratāparudra. He was very powerful king. The Muhammadans, the Pathans, they practically conquered all over India, but they could not enter Orissa. He was very strong king and in those days Madras was under the Orissa government. So, another responsible officer.... (aside) Stop this. How it is happening? You can close these doors. So, he was another big officer, governor, he also joined Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And these two brothers, Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī, they were ministers in the government of Hussain Shah, they also joined. And Raghunātha dasa Gosvāmī he was also a big zamindar, landlord, so he also joined. And a big scholar, he also from Madras side, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī. And Jīva Gosvāmī, he was also a very big scholar. He happened to be from Bengal. In this way six Gosvāmīs, they were immediate disciples of Lord Caitanya and Lord Caitanya's instruction to them..., directly gave instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rāmānanda Raya. So one of the Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu is instructing at Benares. So his proposition was that some people, my neighborhood people or my dependents, government officers, they call me as a learned scholar, paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: You may not like, sir, but if you do not follow you will be punished. (boos and yells) Anyway, if you do not follow the codes and laws of the state or God, then certainly you will be punished. (yelling) You may declare independence, but there is no, I mean, the possibility of such independence. That requires knowledge. (someone yelling)
Jyotirmayī: He is saying that there are some people who would like to ask some questions.
Prabhupāda: So immediately if you want to put some questions, then I can stop. Or if you want me to go on speaking I will speak. As you like. (more yelling) We can stop speaking?
Yogeśvara: Jyotirmayī will say we can have questions after you finish.
Prabhupāda: No, we can finish it now.
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: So now let us conclude that there is God and God's word, or God's vibration, means God is person. As soon as we accept the word of God, then we have to conclude that God is a person. Just like you are vibrating some words, I am vibrating some words. This means both of us, we are all persons. So the word of God and God is not different. But God is person and He speaks. If He speaks, then He hears, He smells, He eats—everything. All the activities are there. If He cannot hear, then our prayer to Him, "O God, give us our daily bread," is useless. So from this statement of the scripture, either you take it Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, it is understood that God is a person like you. That is the statement of the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), namely that God means He is the supreme being. In the dictionary also it is stated, "God means the Supreme Being." We are all beings, but God is the Supreme Being. Just like in every state, there are citizens, but there is one chief citizen. He is president or something like that.
Guest (5): Your Grace, all of us who are attached to a transcendental religion, I think we face a common problem, and I would like to hear you say how you see the answer to the problem: the problem of evil. If I put it in these terms, that all energy, all reality, is from God, the spiritual and the material. And material is good when we use it towards God consciousness, use it properly. But the thing that makes a difference is ourselves, the way we consciously use things differently. And the trouble is that in this consciousness, this is how we come closest to God, our consciousness in itself. Now, some people would say that the source of evil is individual consciousness, our consciousness as persons. Others would have other ways of answering. I was wondering how you yourself would say.
Prabhupāda: Individual consciousness and the supreme consciousness, God and we... We are all also the same principle. God is also living being, we are also living being, but He is the supreme living being. That is stated in the Vedas. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Nitya means eternal. God is eternal; we are also eternal. But because we have fallen down in this material existence, we have forgotten our eternity; we are changing body. We are thinking, "I am this body." This is our misgivings. But God does not fall down. He is eternal. We are also eternal, but because we are very small fragment, sometimes we fall down. Therefore God's another name is Acyuta—"Never falls down." We cyuta, we fall down sometimes. When we fall down, then God comes to save us. So this is the difference between God and us, that we are also eternal and God is also eternal. We are also cognizant, God is also cognizant. In this way, qualitatively, you will find God and we are the same.
Departure Talks
That is the recommendation of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Premā pum-artho mahān. Pum-artho means puruṣārtha, or the goal of life. The goal of life in the material world, generally, not for the animals but for the human being, the goal of life, generally-religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). Some people are interested to become pious, religious, because by becoming pious and religious their economic development will be automatically there. And some of them are interested in simply in economic development for satisfaction of the senses. And some of them—they are considered to be the topmost-interested in liberation. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, he is not interested in either of these four items. He is interested how to love Kṛṣṇa. That is pure devotion. That is paneama-puruṣārtha (?). So people do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). People do not know it generally. If one is very pious man, he wants to be religious, moralist, religious. And others, karmīs, they are interested how to develop economic position. And others, they are simply interested in sense gratification. This is material world.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that this law is not ultimate reality, that it is a mere probability.
Prabhupāda: But it is a physical law. And he says that the sequence of the law may be different. So that is possible also, because law means made by some person, somebody. So if he likes, he can change the law, just like if the legislature assembles and some law is passed today, next day or next month or next year this law is nullified. So that supreme legislative council is responsible for this law-making. Similarly, there is a supreme will who makes this law and who can nullify this law. So we have to come to the supreme will. You cannot change or you cannot make any new law. If you think that by friction of hands there may not be any heat-producing effect, that you cannot do. Therefore you are also under the supreme will. He has given you a chance to talk all nonsense, but he can stop immediately. Your tongue and you will be a dead body, is it not? He is talking all nonsense, but if the supreme will desires, he'll stop immediately his tongue moving, and he'll be considered a dead body, all philosophy finished. But he cannot stop it. Therefore the supreme will is the ultimate cause of all causes.
Śyāmasundara: This is transcendental reason.
Prabhupāda: No. Common reason. Every matter is growing from a certain source, so therefore this material world must have grown from a certain source.
Śyāmasundara: How could some people look at the seed of a tree and come to a different conclusion?
Prabhupāda: From a source. Therefore the perfect reason is that this cosmic manifestation. Also we get from authoritative books, Vedic literature, how it has grown.
Śyāmasundara: How is it that someone else could apply their material reason and come to a different conclusion?
Prabhupāda: What is that reason? How can he prove? He must have proved by his experience. Thus his experience proving that things are... The man who is talking of this nonsense can he prove that he is born without his father? How is that? How his existing is there? How his material body came into existence? It was caused by his father. Then how can he deny the cause? His very existence is depending upon some cause.
Śyāmasundara: He called it weltgeist, which means world spirit, world mind.
Prabhupāda: World spirit? That is a person. Unless you accept a person where there is question of reason? That he does not know. He's trying to explain (how could God be) but he has not clear knowledge. But as soon as speaks of reason there must be some person. That reason is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), under my superintendence, under my guidance, direction. So direction means reason. So as soon as we speak of reason, you must accept the person, the supreme person who is giving this reason, who is directing all these things.
Śyāmasundara: So would you say that all world events, all phenomenon of the world are expressions of this world reason unfolding itself? There is a gradual development.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, there is a plan. After this, this should be done. After this, this should be done. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says superintendence, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10)? Just like you stand, you get your assistant, "Work like this. Do like this. Do like this. Do like that." So there is a plan, and there is direction. And there is reason also.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But who made you? Just like I have written one letter; you can make a hundred copies. But I have written the letter. Similarly, there may be hundreds of copies of your personality, but who made you?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) about the genetic code (indistinct) concerned persons taking our material (indistinct) some people are more intelligent than others, like scientists, Einstein said he had a different brain than other people.
Prabhupāda: Our explanation is that from previous life he is modeled. That is coming. It's continuation.
Śyāmasundara: So Darwin said that also, that one's superior traits are passed on to his children, like that. And then the superior traits survive over the inferior traits, and so on.
Prabhupāda: And where he goes? After transferring to the children, where Mr. Darwin goes?
Śyāmasundara: He disintegrates into matter.
Karandhara: It's total materialism because there's no spirit, just a combination of material elements.
Prabhupāda: Then if you are going again to be mixed with the elements, then why you are bothering your head about your children?
Prabhupāda: Why this example? What is the value of this example?
Śyāmasundara: Any example. Anything that is caused, if there are two instances of it-two balls are dropping—we can conclude, if we studied both of them, that they were both moved by some person, that that person is the cause of their falling. If there is a common circumstance for any phenomenon.
Prabhupāda: Any phenomenon that has natural law, so that is the cause. And if we go on, so what is the cause of that natural law? Then ultimately we find Kṛṣṇa. Everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), everything has got a cause, original source. So if you make actually research work what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, that is called darśana. Darśana means seeing, finding out the cause. Therefore philosophy is called darśana-śāstra, to see the cause of the cause, cause of the cause, cause of the cause. So ultimately they have found Kṛṣṇa is the cause, original cause of everything.
Prabhupāda: Practical value is all right. When you go to take some business, then you must satisfy him. Not that I require, but because I am going to get some business from a person, so I have to satisfy him. The Indian word is abruci khana phalusi pay na. When you go to meet somebody, so you must dress yourself so that your dress may attract. So dress is not required for you, but because you are going to attract some person, then you may dress like a gentleman. But when you eat yourself, Kṛṣṇa prasāda, you don't require to constantly think (indistinct) whether he'll be pleased or not. That doesn't require. This is practical.
Śyāmasundara: The idea is that the suit and the coat are practical for the businessman, and the...
Prabhupāda: Business, that is socially required. If you, of course... In our Bengali it is called jana bahune pohite dakhane. If a man is known a brāhmaṇa, he doesn't require to show his sacred thread. Just like our Kṛṣṇa conscious men, gradually people are understanding our philosophy, so even if we go in this dress, they honor us. But for ordinary things, if you go in this dress, it will not attract them.
Śyāmasundara: He says that value equals satisfaction. In other words, the fulfillment of...
Prabhupāda: So unless you have faith in some person, how you can be satisfied? Therefore you should find out a person in whom you can place your faith. And who can be a better person than Kṛṣṇa?
Śyāmasundara: If certain specific conditions are met, then the satisfaction is transformed into a value. In other words, if my hunger is satisfied by eating a certain foodstuff, then this foodstuff is given value.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So Kṛṣṇa gives that value. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave the value in Bhagavad-gītā, and Arjuna in the beginning denied to fight, but he agreed to fight. He agreed to fight.
Śyāmasundara: Because he was satisfied by his faith in Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is required.
Śyāmasundara: Sometimes he analyzes that if there is a problem facing someone, that he will get sick, and that will resolve the problem. Psychosomatic sickness. And he saw that accidents happen in the same way.
Devotee: It sounds like to me that what he calls life instinct is what we call logical, and what he calls death instinct is what we call tamoguṇa. If some people... Let's say Freud never came across people who have the urge for mukti. People have the urge to go...
Prabhupāda: Neither death nor life...
Devotee: They haven't touch...
Śyāmasundara: That would be part of the life instinct, self-preservation—if you want to live forever.
Prabhupāda: There are others also: to want to die forever.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Death instinct.
Devotee: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura writes that "Vaiṣṇavas die to live," so when we die to live, that is another instinct.
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā says, (indistinct), by giving up this body, that is death, (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Do you attribute accidents and disease to a desire for self-destruction?
Prabhupāda: No. Ultimately we say there is no such thing as accident. Nothing can take place without God's sanction. So there is no question of accidents.
Śyāmasundara: Just like in Bertrand Russell's own case, they're going to drop the bomb on someone. Now some people say it's good—they should drop the bomb to test it. Some people, like he, say, "No, it's bad." So who is to decide? There's no scientific proof.
Prabhupāda: No. Proof, he does not know. Under whose order to drop bombs, bombs should be dropped, under whose order the bombs should not be dropped? There is authority, but he does not know. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna hesitated to fight, "No, I shall..., I shall not drop the bomb." But when he was convinced, after studying Bhagavad-gītā, that "I have to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa," so Kṛṣṇa says, "Drop the bomb," you drop—that is good. That is the... So here in this material world, they are doing with the bomb business by their whim. But when it is directly ordered by Kṛṣṇa, that is not whim; that is good. So that is the standard of good and bad. You should carry out, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is the injunction, as Arjuna says, that "I shall carry out Your order." (indistinct) Krsna consciousness. No hesitation. If one does not do that, that is bad. He may pose himself very saintly person, but if he does not carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, then he's bad.
Hayagrīva: They keep it as a museum.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have seen. I don't think there is any worship of church.
Hayagrīva: But there must be some... There must be some people in Russia, since God is...
Prabhupāda: They may be doing private, privately. Or I did not see.
Hayagrīva: Well at least now some people are interested in purchasing your books in Russia.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Hayagrīva: What does this mean?
Prabhupāda: It may be because it is Indian culture, and we have quoted from Vedic literature, the original Sanskrit. So they are little after the Indian culture, so when they find that here is the original version in original letters, they may be interested in that.
Prabhupāda: So that is imagination of Augustine. But Jesus Christ does not say such qualitative killing. He says frankly, "Thou shalt not kill." When he says that, he means, "You should not kill." But when there is absolute necessity, just like he says that "One life is food for the another life..." Does he not say it like that?
Hayagrīva: He says, uh... (break) He says..., this is, this is Augustine writing. He said, "Some people try to stretch the prohibition 'Thou shalt not kill' to cover beasts and cattle and make it unlawful to kill any such animal, but then why not include plants and anything rooted in and feeding on the soil? After all, things like this, though devoid of feeling, are said to have life and therefore can die and so be killed by violent treatment."
Prabhupāda: No, that is not Vedic philosophy. Vedic philosophy admits that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is natural. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
- ahastāni sahastānām
- apadāni catuṣ-padām
- phalgūni tatra mahatāṁ
- jīvo jīvasya jīvanam
Those who have got hands, they eat the animals without hands, only four legs, and the four-legged animals eats the animals which cannot move—that means plants and vegetables. Similarly, the weak is the food for the strong. In this way there is natural law that one living entity is food for another living entity. But our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, is not based on this platform, that plant life is not sensitive and animal life is more sensitive or human life is more sensitive.
Hayagrīva: Some people have been said to have remembered events in their previous lives. How are these reminiscences or ideas different from innate ideas? How is it possible for one to recall events?
Prabhupāda: Innate idea is in everyone, that is, "God is great, and I am," what is called, "controlled." That innate idea is everywhere. But sometimes, out of ignorance one tries to become God. That is not possible. That is māyā, and he suffers from this. Artificially trying to become God, that is simply waste of time. It will never become possible. That is called māyā. Otherwise, innate idea is that he is servant and God is great. That is innate idea.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "The knowledge of our own being we have by intuition. The existence of a God, reason dearly makes known to us. We have a more certain knowledge of the existence of a God than of anything our senses can discover." Now how is this? If this is the case, how is it that some men have no conception of God?
Prabhupāda: He has conception of God, practically, but because under the spell of māyā he has become foolish, he tries to cover that conception, that somebody is there. How any sane man can deny that some superior power is there who has created this vast ocean, vast land, vast sky? How one sane man can avoid this conception? Nobody can avoid, but artificially, foolishly, he tries to avoid. Atheism. But that will not endure, that will not stay. His foolishness will be exposed. So this is innate idea, but the atheist class, demon class, they want to cover this innate idea artificially.
Purports to Songs
"Now, with all this hard labor, what I have done? I have served some persons who are not at all favorable to my Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And why I have served them?" Capala sukha-laba lāgi' re: "Capala, very flickering happiness. I think if my small child smiles, I will be happy. I think if my wife is pleased, I think I am happy. But all this temporary smiling or feeling of happiness, they are all flickering." That one has to realize. There are many other poets also, similarly have sung that this is..., this mind is just like a desert, and it is hankering after oceans of water. In a desert, if a ocean is transferred, then it can be inundated. And what benefit can be achieved there if drop of water is there? Similarly, our mind, our consciousness, is hankering after ocean of happiness. And this temporary happiness in family life, in society life, they are just like drop of water. So those who are philosophers, those who have actually studied the world situation, they can understand that "This flickering happiness cannot make me happy."
Lord Kṛṣṇa, He personally spoke about Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā, but people who are not very intelligent, who are described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha... Mūḍha means rascal. And duṣkṛtina, miscreant, and narādhama. Narādhama means lowest of the mankind. Such persons cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. But still, Kṛṣṇa was so merciful that in order to claim all these people, means the lowest of mankind, miscreant, and fools, and rascals, rejected, so He came in the form of Lord Caitanya to reclaim them. So God is so merciful that even some persons cannot understand Him... First thing is people cannot understand actually what is God, but God comes Himself to explain Himself. Still, they commit mistake. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee to teach us about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
| Page Title: | Some people (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=112, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 112 |