Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's said in the mahat-tattva when the Lord glances or impregnates, that the glancing...
Prabhupāda: That is spiritual. That glancing is spiritual. So matter itself cannot do anything. Aja-jala-stana, aja-jala-stana. The nipples in the throat, neck. As there are some nipples, nipples useless, that is not milk-giving nipples. So nature is creating. They, generally, they say "by nature," but nature has no power. It is matter. When there is glance of Saṅkarṣaṇa or Viṣṇu, that will do.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In that state, when a living entity's impregnated in this state, it is also said that it is in pure goodness.
Prabhupāda: Pure goodness always, it is simply covered.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is not the completely manifested yet, but then it says by the contamination of pure goodness by ahaṅkāra, then starts material ego. From there, everything is going to manifest. So once we come to material ego then it seems clear.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi...
Svarūpa Dāmodara:
- puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi
- bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
- kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
- sad-asad-yoni-janmasu
- (BG 13.22)
"The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil amongst various species." How does the contaminated ego or contaminated consciousness differ from false ego?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? That is contaminated ego, false ego.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we have a subdivision in the Third Canto for internal subtle senses. It is said mind, intelligence, ego and the contaminated consciousness and this ego is false ego, and another division is contaminated consciousness.
Prabhupāda: This is false ego, "I am this matter, I am this body." This is false ego.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but why it is...
Prabhupāda: Ego is there, but this is false ego.
Rūpānuga: Then by association with the modes there is contaminated consciousness.
Prabhupāda: This false ego develops.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still in this verse on 7.26, verse 14, it says there are four internal subtle senses. Now these four senses are mind, intelligence, ego and the contaminated consciousness.
Rūpānuga:
- mano buddhir ahaṅkāraś
- cittam ity antar-ātmakam
- caturdhā lakṣyate bhedo
- vṛttyā lakṣaṇa-rūpayā
"The internal subtle senses are experienced as having four aspects in the shape of mind, intelligence, ego and contaminated consciousness. Distinctions between them can be made only by different functions, since they represent different characteristics." Purport: "The four internal senses or subtle senses described herein are defined by different characteristics. When pure consciousness is polluted by material contamination, and identification with the body becomes predominant, this is called false ego. Consciousness is the function of the soul, and therefore behind consciousness there is soul. When consciousness is polluted by material contamination, this is called ahaṅkāra."
Prabhupāda: Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. The same thing. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is—this ego mentioned here—is it a false ego? That's what I understand.
Prabhupāda: Not real. Real ego is "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Rūpānuga: Is there false ego in different modes? Like false ego in the mode of ignorance, false in the mode of passion or goodness?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: So the consciousness can be contaminated according to the mode in which it's associating.
Prabhupāda: Yes, prakṛti-jān guṇān.
Rūpānuga: Yes. So I am identifying with my body in any mode, that is false ego. But my consciousness is contaminated by a particular mode. May be passion, may be ignorance, may be goodness. So then my consciousness is contaminated. So false ego is the base of all material activities, but I may be acting in a certain mode, contaminated in a certain way. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: That is what it means.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything clear, these four internal subtle senses?
Prabhupāda: Yes.