Expressions researched:
"slaughter house"
|"slaughter houses"
|"slaughter-house"
|"slaughterhouse"
|"slaughterhouses"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? One time you were explaining that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with the Kazi, He convinced him about that the Koran does not actually advocate meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Because the Muslims, they also cannot eat meat unless it is sacrificed in the mosque. There is no recommendation that you purchase from the market and the animal be slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: If you are taking care of mother, you must take care of all mothers. No, they are mad after the land, but killing the other mother, dhenu. This is called rascaldom. (break) ...to give all comforts to the human brother, and they are sending the animal brother to slaughterhouse. What is this Communist? If you are Communist, if you are equal to all your brothers, why you should discriminate? And our communism is that even there is a snake in your home, you must see that he is not starving. This is spiritual communism. Nobody likes snake. Everyone kills. But śāstra says, "Even a snake is there at your home, you must see that he's not starving." This is communism, perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, as we feel pains and pleasures...
Devotee (1): Sa yaḥ paśyati: "Who can see like that..."
Prabhupāda: ...they should know the others also will feel. If my throat is cut, I feel, and "Why shall I cut the throat of another, poor animal?" This is learned man. And this rascal, maintaining slaughterhouse, and learned man? And they cannot understand. And big, big priests, they'll defend: "Oh, this 'Thou shalt not kill' means it is meant for the men, not for the ani..." They'll put arguments. Christ says clearly, "Thou shall not kill" and they will defend.
Prabhupāda: If you follow Bhagavad-gītā, then everything will be followed very nicely. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). And go-rakṣya, this is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if you follow Bhagavad-gītā, then naturally go-rakṣya will be there. And if you read Bhagavad-gītā for some political reason, then slaughterhouse go on. That's all. Instead of go-rakṣya, go-killing. This is going on. Every politician is reading Bhagavad-gītā, but go-rakṣya... Instead of go-rakṣya, go-hatya. This is going on, no go-rakṣya but go-hatya. This is going on. Who cares for Kṛṣṇa? This is the misfortune of India. Kṛṣṇa spoke in India, in Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, but Indian people are neglecting. Therefore I say it is a misfortune. It is your own thing. You are neglecting it.
Prabhupāda: No, I simply said, "Come and join and chant."
Lokanātha: And when they developed higher taste, then you said, "Now no more meat-eating." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...simply man looks after the animals, that he's strong and happy, they'll get food grains, the cooperation, and both of them happy. But they're not looking to that. They are trying to sell the grains and get more money, and purchase wine and enjoy. And when the animal will be unable to work, sell him to the slaughterhouse and get money. And for these sinful activities, they are suffering.
Guru-kṛpā: Flesh means material, temporary, imperfect.
Guest (2): I'm not perfect. This is not temporary.
Prabhupāda: So you bring some flesh from slaughterhouse and glorify it.
Guest (2): Could I ask a question? I was told, if I'm not right, that down there in a section of your temple you worship the workmanship of flesh. A man made it.
Prabhupāda: We never do that. Who told you? Who is the rascal?
Prabhupāda: The animal cannot understand that he is suffering. Man can understand. That is difference. If you do not understand, then you are animal. Now, here it is clearly said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is unhappiness. And if you think, "Oh, what is there, unhappiness in dying?" then you are animal. The animal are taken to the slaughterhouse. He is not disturbed. He is eating grass very peacefully. That is the animal life. If you do not understand what is unhappiness, then you are animal. You are not human being. But his unhappiness, that's a fact, to remain in a airtight bag for ten months. If you have no sense, "Oh, what is this?" And still being killed, is it not unhappiness? And if you say, "Where is unhappiness?" then you are a stone. The Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Janma is unhappiness.
Rāmeśvara: They've created so many problems to solve. (apparently reading sign) (pause)
Prabhupāda: South Pacific Railway? ISKCON government means this, stop all these four things. No slaughterhouse, close. The meat-eaters may become agitated, they may complain, "No, you are not forbidden to eat, you can eat, but slaughter in your house."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Natural death.
Prabhupāda: The government is not going to maintain slaughterhouse, that's all. We don't forbid you; you can do at your home.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The cows will die one day from old age, then they can eat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you like to eat, the dead cow. Just like you are eating..
Prabhupāda: Barbians, ah, barbarians. In the jungle, the barbarians, they do not know how to produce food, how to utilize milk. They can kill animals. That is also not like this, by machine you kill thousands of cows. They did not know this. For their simple eating they might have killed some animals, not particularly cow. Perhaps they were not killing cows because they were getting milk. Other, nonimportant animals. But what is this civilization? I learned that in South Africa, before killing the cows, they take the last drop of milk, and then it is sent to the slaughterhouse. They are so expert that if there is still little milk, take it before her death. Is that civilization, that you are taking milk...? So Vedic civilization is as you are drinking milk from the cow, she's your mother. Actually she's mother. But what is this civilization, killing mother? Hm? Is that civilization? Take from mother whatever she can deliver up to the last drop of milk, and then kill her. Advanced civilization, scientific. Killing scientifically. This is not civilization.
Hari-śauri: And just to emphasize it, they deliberately moved the Indian community next to the slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Because they know they don't like cow killing.
Devotee: Where?
Hari-śauri: In South Africa.
Prabhupāda: The Indian quarters near their slaughterhouse, and the animals screaming like anything whole night, and they have to hear it. The real purpose is that the Indians may go out.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, who does that?
Prabhupāda: In South Africa.
Rāmeśvara: All the instructions for the future-like you said that one day even we will have the government—how to run the government, everything is explained in your books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think like that. (laughs) Is there mention, "The slaughterhouse must stopped"?
Rāmeśvara: You've given all the major policies for the future government, Kṛṣṇa consciousness government.
Prabhupāda: Let us hope.
Hari-śauri: Left-luggage lockers. Trivikrama Mahārāja, in Japan. He said over two hundred thousand, uh, twenty thousand babies, they put them in a left-luggage locker and leave them.
Prabhupāda: Bus way station? Railway station? Leave luggage. Put it and lock it, then not coming back. Then when there is bad smell.... This is going on. This is simply animal civilization. Taking the last drop of milk from the cow and immediately send it to the slaughterhouse. They are doing like that. Before sending to the slaughterhouse, they draw out the last drop of milk from the cow. And immediately killing. So you require the milk, you are taking so much milk, without milk you cannot.... And the animal from whom you take milk, she's your mother. They forget this. Mother supplies milk, she supplies milk from her body, and you are killing the mother? Is that civilization? Killing mother? And milk is necessary.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, when the cow is dead, you dig, or put it within the.... Or take it. No, nobody will object. In India, that is the system. When the cow is dead, there is a class, they are called cobblers, camar(?). They are informed and they'll come. They'll take it. And they'll eat the flesh and take the skin, and tan it in their own method, and then prepare shoes. They sell it in the market. So without any price, they get the skin, they eat the flesh. So nobody is harmed. But there is a class.... (break) ...they are not going to starve. From economic point of view, it is very good. So why you are killing and maintaining so big, big slaughterhouse? Let everyone maintain the cows for taking milk. And when it dies, you take it, you meat-eaters. Make that arrangement.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: When we are traveling on the road we see so much land not used. And we think "Why not take everyone out of the factories, let them plant fruit and flower trees along the roads all over the country and build beautiful ponds. So everyone can bathe when they walk, for refreshment." Just like in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I think Nṛsiṁha Brahmacārī, he was building a road for Lord Caitanya, very nicely.
Prabhupāda: No, they will create slaughterhouse, brothel, then liquor shop, gambling house. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, then why don't you follow Christ? Christ says "Thou shall not kill," then why do you interpret? "Christ ate meat, therefore we shall open slaughterhouse," this is rascaldom. This rascaldom (indistinct). Because maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish. Do they not say that? And they are Christians. All others are sinful (indistinct), that's all right, why don't you kill (indistinct). Several times these Christians (indistinct).
Devotee: Everyone in the world is becoming tenth-class men, but Śrīla Prabhupāda is turning the whole thing around. Had you not come, there would be no hope for the whole world.
Prabhupāda: First of all, beginning with kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. So bhakti, beginning is ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga bhajana-kriyā anartha-nivṛttiḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). The material world means simply creating unnecessary duties. Simply anartha. Any material activities, you take, analyze, it is simply useless. Therefore we have called anartha. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Take for example we say no meat-eating. So what is the difficulty there? I have seen in the airplane, they eat meat, a little piece, not a lump. But because everyone is eating little, little, we require huge number of slaughterhouses. But if one decides, "I have got so many preparations to eat, so why shall I eat little meat?" (indistinct) I shall forego. Immediately he is saved from so many sinful activities. It is not that he will die if he does not eat a little piece of meat, he will die. He'll not die. We are not dying, and we don't take.
Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Our real business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligence? Therefore it is said duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is, they can give us, they are in power, they can do that, but legally...
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, you are right. If they want to eat, let them take the dead cow.
Prabhupāda: They take it. Free, they get without any price. They get the skin, they get flesh, let them eat. We are not going to charge for the... You take it. Why maintain slaughterhouse? Take this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Most meat-eaters would consider it disgusting to have to cut cow open.
Prabhupāda: Disgusting?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they had to do it themselves they would consider it abominable.
Prabhupāda: No, some of them can do it, make business. As there are butchers, as they are selling meat, they can take it, they'll make more profit. From slaughterhouse, if they purchase, they have to pay, but here they get free. The hotel man, they can get free. The tannary expert, he'll get this skin free. I have seen they are eating the lobster, it is so decomposed it has become exactly like puss and they are eating. That argument is not valid.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: His question here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, especially is that the harijanas are very downtrodden...
Prabhupāda: Downtrodden, you keep them downtrodden. You manufacture wine and let them drink, and he will be uplifted. One side, (chuckles) you are manufacturing wine and advertising, "Come on, take here," and you remain, become harijana. How it is possible? You must stop all this nonsense, the slaughterhouse, the liquor shop or the breweries or the prostitute quarter. You stop this. But that cannot be also stopped. Anyone who wants to become harijana, he can become in spite of all these things. He can defend himself.
Prabhupāda: Why the government should keep slaughterhouse?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You asked them that in Mauritius, I remember. The government started a chicken slaughterhouse. You said, "Why the government should have slaughterhouse?" And they replied, "They will kill them anyway. There are so many Muslims." Prabhupāda said, "Let them kill, but why the government should support this slaughter?"
Hari-śauri: But then their argument is that if we don't have big, big slaughterhouses, then there won't be enough supply.
Prabhupāda: No why should...? After all, the animal is going to die. It is not for..., he's permanently. Why should you kill?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they kill the animal first in the slaughterhouse and then do whatever they have to do.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But we are killing when they are young, when their meat is fresh. When the body is old, the meat is...
Prabhupāda: That you have to change. Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says the butcher, even, he can sell the meat cheaply, make profit. He's getting it free of charge.
Hari-śauri: Maybe some time in the future this could happen when Kṛṣṇa consciousness becomes very powerful influence in the country, but unless we could actually close the slaughterhouse...
Prabhupāda: No, but now by imploring, we are requesting him that "You can take this cow and sell in your shop, butcher shop, you give us the skin. And you can tell the customer that it is as good, it is cheaper. So whatever money you get, that is your profit. You haven't got to invest anything."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Do you propose that we should do this now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is... Think over.
Prabhupāda: So it is the duty of the Christians. But they are also... What can I say? They are passing resolution according to the time, changing the instruction of Bible. How they can be fixed-up? Our standard is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We accept guru as representative of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then he is guru. Similar in Christianity, if they actually take care that whether one is speaking according to the Ten Commandments, if he is living according to the rules and regulations of the Ten Commandments, then he is guru. Why people accept them? Because they are ignorant, they do not know who is real and who is fake. But the standard is there. Take for example in the Bible, it is said "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. Killing is the business of the Christians. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. We are maintaining cows here, and there are others, they are maintaining cows for slaughtering. Why? In these Commandments it is clearly said that "Thou shalt not kill." How they will detect? If they are violating themselves the laws, how they will punish the lawbreaker? "Physician, heal thyself." The physician himself is diseased, and he's going to treat other patients.
Rūpānuga: Just the medical point of view, it is right.
Prabhupāda: You see. But they are so fools, rascals, they'll not accept it. And they'll give example, "Christ ate fish" somewhere; therefore we have to maintain the slaughterhouse. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we have to maintain slaughterhouse. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. Huh? This is going on. So we have to make vigorous propaganda for all this foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti loko mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So we are giving the best civilization, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With little patience and perseverance you work on it, people will take it. Because there is nothing adulteration; it is pure. Rest assured, if you follow the principles and push on according to the prescription I have given, it will be accepted. May take some time.
Prabhupāda: Educational circles. Yes. In the education circles they are made fools. Education means he's a more fool, that's all. That is education. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These fools and rascals, their actual knowledge is taken away, and they are coming out as educated. That we are protesting.
Hari-śauri: You once called them slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses of education.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I have said, yes. Means whatever little education he has, that is also finished.
Prabhupāda: That is the law in England. You cannot keep a bull.
Hari-śauri: The only reason they keep a male animal is just for meat. Bullocks, one year old, and then they send them to the slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, in India, they require bulls and... Generally, they are not inclined to kill. So they are engaged in...
Devotee (1): The Christians say that Christ ate meat himself, that there's nothing wrong with it.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Christ ate meat? I don't think so.
Hari-śauri: They say fish.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?
Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.
Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse. What do you think? Is that good reasoning?
Devotee (2): No, it's demoniac by common sense if you maintain large slaughterhouses, it's completely irreligious.
Prabhupāda: When Christ said "Thou shalt not kill," does it mean that he wanted to maintain slaughterhouse? What is the answer, hm?
Devotee (1): No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have one slaughterhouse and just beside, I have seen, just beside there is dairy. So at night they bring the cows in to the dairy, milk them to the last drop, and then to the slaughterhouse and all night screaming. I heard because the Indian neighborhood was about five hundred yards from the slaughterhouse. Then in the morning you'd drive by and the carcasses are hanging up. Prabhupāda: So you are drawing the last drop of milk from the cow and sending her to the slaughterhouse. Is that very good civilization? Dr. Sharma: Swamiji, the beef industry here is based more on... The argument of mother would be a little weak.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Vedic literature, even those who are meat-eaters, they are advised to sacrifice an animal before the deity Goddess Kālī, not purchased from the slaughterhouse. That is a kind of yajña, paśumedha-yajña. That is for low-class men. But still, because he's performing the yajña, he's less sinful.
Prabhupāda: That was not killing. So instead of wasting his time, he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." Here is... You cannot open slaughterhouse, giving reference to the Vedas or any sacrifice, either in the Muhammadans, Jews and everyone. They also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It is not that they recommend open slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing; there will be a class of men who'll eat meat. To give them some concession, so this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal-eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this Goddess Kālī worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, on the dark moon night, one day in a month, and the dead of night.
Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.
Prabhupāda: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... (break) That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat—to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this goddess Kālī-worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night.
Prabhupāda: They will say that is... Whatever they... Foolishly whatever they may say, then let them say. Actually he doesn't like to die. Otherwise let there be fire, why you called fire brigade? Let me die peacefully in the fire. (laughter) Nonsense he's suffering, but still he says there is no suffering. That is nonsense. That is ignorance. He's suffering every moment, but he does not know why he's suffering. That is ignorance. Just like an animal, you are taking into the slaughterhouse. He's suffering, he's screaming, but he does not know why you have taken to slaughterhouse (indistinct). And that is animal life. And when there will be question of why I am suffering? I did not want this fire, why there is fire? That is perfection (indistinct). Is there any solution? Then there is human life. And if he remains like animal, and simply try to make some remedial measures... He's suffering undoubtedly, but because he does not take it seriously, therefore he's animal. Animal does not take seriously why he's suffering. That is the distinction between human life and animal life.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said one of the standards of education is to see all living entities equally. So not that we say that an animal has no soul, therefore he can go to the slaughterhouse, but a man has soul, so he cannot. Because we see all living entities equally, so we do not send man to slaughterhouse, and we do not send animals to slaughterhouse. That is education.
Rāmeśvara: If it is... Something that is judged by, say, the US government as criminal, would be still do it if it was for Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, we do not do anything which is harmful to the society. We do not do anything, not only to the human society. To the animal society, to the tree society, to the aquatic society, we do not do anything. We do not support the slaughterhouse, killing the animals. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to see every living entity on the same level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are not cruel to anyone. Either he's a man or animal or tree or bird.
Prabhupāda: No, pramattaḥ, that we can see, pramattaḥ, mad. And everyone, especially in the Western country, so many madmen. The hippies, their whole sect-mad. Pramattaḥ. Then so-called businessmen, so-called scientist, so-called philosopher—everyone is mad. And kurute vikarma, all sinful activities, especially the slaughterhouse, horrible. Everyone is taking share of these sinful activities. They're fighting amongst themselves, this party, that party, communist party, fascist party, then barking in the United Nation and so on, so on. All mad. At least we must know it. Or we are talking nonsense; they are all right.
Prabhupāda: Organize it and keep hundreds of books. They will live peacefully. But don't entangle in sinful activities. Then it will be all right. Such a nice place. The city residents cannot imagine. What a nonsense life—clubs, slaughterhouse, gambling places, drinking house. This is like hell. Try to save people from this hellish condition of life, without any knowledge, like animals. And nature therefore creates a wholesale slaughterhouse in war, to cut throat all—finished. Many millions and millions are finished. From 1914 to 1950, how many years?
Harikeśa: Thirty-six.
Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to date. We have already got. We say you cannot go there, you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge.
Parivrājakācārya: With the head of the animal towards Mecca, and you let the blood of the animal flow towards Mecca, and then you can eat an animal. So they keep many sheep here just for that purpose.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So at least they do not recommend to purchase from the slaughterhouse. That is also good.
Jñānagamya: But they have slaughterhouse.
Parivrājakācārya: But the Koran restricts meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: It is restriction.
Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not (know) how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, that's... When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat." The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons.
Prabhupāda: 99%, they are maintaining all big, big slaughterhouse, all Christians. And Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill," but they are killing. What kind of Christian he is? Disobedience to the order of Christ? And still he is Christian? These things are going on. Then again party, this ism, that ism, that ism. First of all, all of them are disobeying the Ten Commandments, and then there are parties. So which one you'll accept?
Dr. Kneupper: There's no such diversity of interpretation of the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from Bhagavad-gītā, I am talking of Christianity. How you can disobey the orders of Christ and you become Christian at the same time?
Prabhupāda: We are teaching them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual knowledge. That is automatically. We are feeding them, giving them prasādam. That is included. But those who are opening hospitals for human being, they are taking the poor animals to the slaughterhouse, maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. That means foolishness. Kṛṣṇa will not be happy that one son you take care by opening hospital and another son you go, you send him to the slaughterhouse. This is foolishness. Never. God will never be happy. The same example. If the father has got both children—you take care one of them and others you kill them—will the father be happy? So that is not the way of making the supreme father, God, happy. That is not the way. That is foolish way. Rather, displeasing the father. That is not a very good philosophy.
Prabhupāda: No. When you have got bulls, why should you get...?
Mahāṁśa: We have only 8 pairs of bulls.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and other bulls have been eaten up. Now we stop that eating. Now if you need, you can purchase tractor. But as far as possible try to avoid, and engage the bulls. Otherwise, it will be problems. The Europeans have invented tractors, and the bull is a problem. Therefore they must be sent to the slaughterhouse. So we can not create that problem. How the bull should be utilized? They should be used for transport, and plowing. What is this turmoil?
Prabhupāda: Factories and industry and export and import and then slaughterhouse, drinking, prostitute—these are all British contribution. In India, before that, they did not know, although there was Muhammadan kingdom. Muhammadans were happy as ruler. They did not... They thought that "Let them execute their own religion, and let us our religion." That was the relation. And Hindus, they took it that "Somebody must be government..." (break) ...policy that "If the Indians remain as Indian, it will be impossible to govern. Give them education and condemn everything Indian." And they engaged their own men, engaged our men, and gradually they developed the industry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). I've touched all the points in the modern...
Girirāja: It has a very nice purport.
Prabhupāda: Find out that. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanyaḥ...
Pradyumna: Oh, I know.
Prabhupāda: I've touched the slaughterhouse, brothel...
Rāmeśvara: The whole war of Kurukṣetra was just so Kṛṣṇa's devotees...
Prabhupāda: Yes. It was designed by Kṛṣṇa. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bas, finished, all the demons finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bas, finished." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin: "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Kṛṣṇa's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise without your help they are already killed." So... Kṛṣṇa... Paritrāṇāya... He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is another side of His business.
Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering. Whole night slaughtering is going on, and there are screaming of the animals. Whole night. Even those who are meat-eaters, they will be disturbed. So the purpose is that "Let them live near the slaughterhouse, so by sentiment they are disgusted, leave this country." They don't want the Asians, especially Indians, and especially due to Gandhi, because they know, due to Gandhi... At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement.
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa conscious government must be monarchy. A real Kṛṣṇa conscious government...
Prabhupāda: No. Why monarchy? You can continue democracy, but the legislators should be first-class men who has knowledge, not these rascals.
Rāmeśvara: But the real problem is the businessmen, because they can influence the mass of people by advertising.
Prabhupāda: The mass of people should be educated. Just like we are educating, "No meat-eating." So automatically the meat-selling, slaughterhouse will be stopped.
Rāmeśvara: There must be some controls. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Control must be there, that... This is very easy. The state cannot support or maintain slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, you kill animal at your home. But state cannot. So mass sinful activities, state cannot. So if the legislators and the head of the state are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will understand the importance of this. So they can stop slaughterhouse. And the public agitation? "You can slaughter animal at your home. You have got the liberty, but state cannot maintain." What is the wrong there?
Rāmeśvara: What about buying books? There are so many books with nonsense ideas. That will have to be controlled also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If the government is Kṛṣṇa conscious, they can control everything.
Prabhupāda: Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time there were cities like Mathurā, Dvārakā. They were cities, big, big city. And when Kṛṣṇa came, they were decorating, they were receiving. So that kind of city will continue, but not this hellish city-slaughterhouse, brothel and big, big tin car, and so on, accident.
Bhāgavata: Here is a restaurant, and they're selling meat. On the one hand they're supposed to be protecting the animal, and on the other hand they are slaughtering and feeding people meat.
Prabhupāda: Protect the animal? This is not protecting. This is another slaughterhouse.
Hari-śauri: This is slow slaughter.
Prabhupāda: Slow slaughter. They have no independence. (laughs) This is not protection.
Hari-śauri: This is prison.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is prison.
Prabhupāda: Durban, Durban. No conclusion. The Indians are still segregated. I had been in South Africa. So from... What is that? Johannesburg. Johannesburg city, that Indian quarter, at least ten to fifteen miles away in a jungle. And there they have kept slaughterhouse.
Guest (1): Oh, near the Indian quarters.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Indians, whole night they are hearing the screaming of the animals. Means, purposefully they have created this disturbance, and Indians have got some sentiment of cow killing. And that screaming is going on whole night.
Prabhupāda: By nature's way you have come to the position of understanding why you are suffering, how this material nature is working. "I am eternal. Why I am undergoing birth and death?" If you do not understand this problem, then what is the value of this human life. Eating, sleeping, mating—that is done by the animals. And this modern civilization, keeping them in ignorance, that "Eating, sleeping, better style of eating, and that is advancement. And that is also not better style. Eating meat, keeping slaughterhouse—is that better style of eating?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animal living.
Prabhupāda: The tigers also do that. But you say, "Oh, we have got machine, cunning, (while the) tiger has to fight." This is their advancement of civilization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were saying the cows, when they know there is something there, they stay away.
Prabhupāda: No. They can understand that "These people are going to kill us. These people will not kill us." They can understand. You know that when I was in America some incident took place, that some slaughterhouse livestock, the..., somehow or other, it was open, and they were fleeing away, going away. Something happened. They were going up on the slaughterhouse, and some of them were shooted.
Prabhupāda: A horrible position. People have lost their freedom, their culture, spiritual life. Here so much care is taken for children, and they are so opulent. They are fully opulent and spending money lavishly for the welfare of the child. And they are spending money lavishly in the hotels, in the brothels, in slaughterhouse, the liquor shop, and kill. And this is going on as civilization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think in Vṛndāvana there's so much of this meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: No. Here they eat meat very secretive, some.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very secretive?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Openly they'll never.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's hard to even find a butcher shop here.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. In Mathurā there is slaughterhouse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow! Government allowed. The government.
Prabhupāda: Progressing means eating, sleeping, nothing more progress. He eats by killing an animal in the jungle, and you are eating, killing an animal in the organized slaughterhouse. That's all. So what is the difference between you and him? You are committing sinful activities by hammering, the killing, but he does not do so. He's not so sinful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that "Man alone has progressed..."
Prabhupāda: He can be allowed to do so because he is not civilized. But you are civilized, and you are committing great sinful activities by maintaining slaughterhouse. You are such a rascal. And because you are godless, you do not know that you will suffer for these sinful activities. That is the proof of existence of soul.
Brahmānanda: Or even if they're farmers, all they do is just graze cows. And they don't do any work. They just have the cows eat, and then they sell them.
Prabhupāda: And maintain slaughterhouse, eh?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why don't you show them the South African report?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...slaughterhouse... (Hindi conversation)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a temple that was built there. We have a big farm there as well as two temples. This is one of the temples.
| Page Title: | Slaughterhouse (Conversations, 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Serene |
| Created: | 15 of Feb, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=72, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 72 |