Prabhupāda: ...is that nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdram. The śūdras, fourth-class men, they are on the government executive. This is one defect. And another defect is ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā, maintaining large-scale slaughterhouse. These are the two defects of modern civilization. They..., on the top of government there are śūdras, not kṣatriyas. Neither they are guided by intelligent class, brāhmaṇas. Parīkṣit Mahārāja's first beginning is dvija-varya-śikṣayā. The guidance was first-class brāhmaṇas, and he was a kṣatriya, first-class. And there was no animal slaughterhouse. They are also suffering. They are bringing every day some problem. "What is the solution of this problem, what is this solution...?" But why the problems are coming? Because the defect is there that the, on the head of the government there are śūdras and they are busy in cow-killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. This is the defect. And they are not guided by the first-class, intelligent class of men.
Slaughterhouse (Conversations, 1974 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"slaughter house"
|"slaughter houses"
|"slaughter-house"
|"slaughterhouse"
|"slaughterhouses"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Umāpati: So we would tell the people that if we were elected we would try to close the slaughterhouses.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is different thing. Why you should say, revolting something. You say that "Don't eat meat." That is slaughterhouse closing. If you say that "Close your slaughterhouse," they will think that these are, what is called?
Umāpati: Radical.
Prabhupāda: Ideal, radicalist, idealist. But if you can induce them... That is also another process...
Umāpati: Through influence.
Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed.
Umāpati: People will ask us, if we get into office. What are we going to do? What is the first thing we are going to do? What can we do? Since there are many, many other legislators and many other senators, they say, "You are only one man. How you can possibly change the country if we elect you?"
Prabhupāda: That I know. That I know, that I am... Therefore we are, internally, we are not after the office; we are after educating people. Yes. Even if you go to office, you cannot do. Even if give manifesto, that you will stop slaughterhouse, and you are elected a senator, you cannot stop. Because they are majority there. If you say they will laugh, "What this nonsense saying?" So even if you give any manifesto, you will not be able to carry out it, because their majority is there. Simply you can general way educate them. Or you can give what is there. There is no harm.
Prabhupāda: This is also very good, good in this sense that they do not eat without restriction. There is some restriction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To sacrifice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That if you want to eat meat and chicken, then you first of all sacrifice before that deity. So at least they'll be restricted from eating meat purchased from slaughterhouse. But this rascal civilization, one side they're advertising "Stop cruelty to animals," another side they're opening unrestricted slaughterhouse. Just see. One side they're allowing marriage of woman every week, another side contraceptive. Just see their contradiction. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...there is animal sacrifice in the church. Is there any such pre...?
Prabhupāda: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the śūdras or the kṣatriyas... Just like kṣatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.
Hṛdayānanda: What he kills.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.
Prabhupāda: :...disciple has read it that from government side there is an article that in Iranian country they want meat, so all these skinny cows should be killed and meat should be exported so that you can get oil economically. So one should not think of this religious sentiment. They should be practical. They should not object. Government is going to open many slaughterhouse to get oil, and kill these loitering, mischief loitering cows, no food. Like that. So government policy is that religious (indistinct) is an opiate of the (indistinct). It is a sentiment. It has no value. That is government conclusion. So therefore their decision is not to encourage these temples and this bhajana. To their point of view, it is useless.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Mahārāja. This is kṣatriya king. Who has got so many cows to distribute? They cannot maintain even one cow. He is handed it over to the slaughterhouse. This is our position.
Śrīdhara: "He not only gave cows in charity, but hills of grain, decorated with golden bordered garments and many ornaments."
Prabhupāda: Anna-vastra, anna-vastra-dhana. Charity means to give in charity anna and vastra and cows. (break) ...give in charity some paper, one hundred rupees. (laughs) Another cheating. And he is also satisfied, "One hundred rupees." What is this one hundred? It is a paper, a piece of paper. (break) ...earned, black market, white market.
Prabhupāda: ...cows were getting grass also. Water. But you will find there is no water, there is no grass in the field. And the government is sending the cows to the slaughterhouse. This is the condition of present India. In Europe, America, although they are selling the cows to the slaughterhouse, they have got enough grass and water. That I have seen. At least so long they live, the cows are comfortably maintained. But here there is no comfort for the cows. Now here the anxiety is whether the cows are getting sufficient grass and water.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no sanction. These are all sinful activities.
Richard Webster: These are material activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have created all these things. God has not sanctioned. God has not sanctioned for running on a factory. Therefore as soon as you run on a factory, you simply commit sinful activities. In the Bhagavad-gītā we don't find any such sanction that you run on a factory, a slaughterhouse or the brothel and this business and brewery no such sanction. But you have done at your whims.
Bhagavān: When there was the oil crisis in the United States, they were giving reports how some person would go in his car, go ten miles in a big car to buy one pack of cigarettes.
Prabhupāda: Stick to your own place and grow your food. There is no question of transport. Little transport is required, that bullock cart. Kṛṣṇa was being carried on bullock cart. There is no use of petrol. Use simply the bull. They are already there. Utilize them. No. The bull should be sent to the slaughterhouse. Petrol should be used.
Atreya Ṛṣi: They try to solve every problem by transportation, by airplanes, cars. For example, we had this big conference in Montreal. From all over the world came...
Prabhupāda: Which way we shall go?
Dhanañjaya: Just up here. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...their nuts and bolts.
Prabhupāda: No, nuts, if there is demand, let this go on. Why shall I shut down. But we cannot run on this slaughterhouse...
Haihaya: The communists, they kicked us from the university in Mexico, because we were always defeat there in the philosophy. It is very easy to defeat communists with this philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to do. There may be opposition, but what can be done? We have to speak the resu..., that "There cannot be equality sir. You are talking nonsense." Challenge them, and let them prove that "Here is equality." Where is equality? Where is equality? You are human being. You are trying to live very comfortably. Why don't you make comfortable life for other living entities? Why you are sending them to the slaughterhouse? Where is equality?
Prabhupāda: Now the so-called, the priestly society, priestly society, they are amending the Biblical injunction according to their whims. Just like in the Bible, the injunction is, "Thou shalt not kill." But the priestly class and all classes, they are simply killing. So how they can guide? They are keeping regular slaughterhouse for killing. So how they can guide? I have asked so many Christian gentlemen, including priests that "Your injunction is that 'Thou shalt not kill.' That is Lord Jesus Christ's order. Why you are violating this?" They give me vague answers. Directly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." And the whole world is simply killing poor animals, and keeping up-to-date slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.
Prabhupāda: So such an important... And besides that, from moral point of view, you are drinking the milk of cow, and after that you are sending to the slaughterhouse. Do you like to send your mother to the slaughterhouse? And the bull is giving you, producing your food. Nowadays they have invented tractor or engaging sometimes horse. But in India still, the bulls are engaged for tilling the ground, the field, and produces. So from moral sense, the bull is producing your food and the cow is giving milk to you; therefore father and mother. Just like father produces food for the children and the mother gives the milk. So if the human society has not this simple brain of understanding, then where is brain?
Yogeśvara: He admitted it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will admit it. Cow is giving milk-mother. And bull is producing food—he is father. And they are being killed? Is that human society? How they can be happy? There is no possibility. Regularly they are maintaining slaughterhouse especially for the cows and bulls. Why don't you slaughter the dogs and hogs and eat if you are meat-eater? There are many meat-eaters who eat dogs. Dog is useless. You can eat. Hog is also useless. They are eating also dog and hog, everything, whatever they...
Yogeśvara: His point was that they can... He was thinking that man has the capacity for resolving his own problems. Simply we have to come together and organize.
Prabhupāda: That is United Organization. Why do they not think all these things?
Prabhupāda: Dry means there is no rain. If natures like, there can be profuse rain. That is nature's arrangement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Parjanyāt. You must have sufficient rain. And for having sufficient rain, you must execute yajña. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). So these people are now becoming rascals. They are not performing yajñas. They are opening slaughterhouse. How there will be rain? Instead of performing yajñas, they are opening big, big slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: In somewhere. If somewhere it is produced, then other place also it can be produced. You perform yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. You will get enough food. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, annād bhavanti bhutānī (BG 3.14). So in Switzerland there are many slaughterhouses also? Many?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Some time ago I read in the papers that they had so much milk and so much butter that the government proposal was kill the cows.
Prabhupāda: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.
Prabhupāda: That is the essence of religion, to know God and to love Him. That's all.
M. Roche-dieu: Yes. Love God and love the man too.
Prabhupāda: Why man? Simply love God; then you will love everyone. Because God is the center, God is the father of everyone, so if you love the father, automatically you love the sons. It is not required that you simply love this son and not that son. That is not love of Godhead. "I love human being but I do not love the poor animals. Send them to the slaughterhouse." This is not love of God.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...
Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father.
Yogeśvara: He says, "But then Kṛṣṇa says, 'Why are you afraid to fight? After all, the soul is eternal, but the body is only temporary.' So isn't that a justification..."
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Therefore you open slaughterhouse and go on killing animals."
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Prabhupāda: Well, if you have killed some man and you go to the court and if you say that "He is not killed," will you be saved?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.
Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas.
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?
Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat fast enough, they're eating so much beef.
Prabhupāda: No, fast, fast. Fast means you have to eat the cow's flesh. So how you can make it fast? The cows' number are the same. So it will remain the same. Simply you wait for the natural death.
Prabhupāda: More cows. Yes. They'll have more cows. Simply we request that "Don't..." You propagate this. "Don't kill, don't maintain the slaughterhouse." It's very sinful. It has got very awkward reaction on the society. Stop this slaughterhouse. We don't say that you stop eating meat. You eat meat, but don't take it from slaughterhouse. Or don't by killing. Simply wait, and you'll get the... How long the cow will live? Their maximum age is twenty years. So not that you have to wait for twenty years. There are many cows, eighteen years, sixteen years or ten years. So wait for that much time. Then you regularly get dead cows and eat. What is the wrong? You make this propaganda.
Prabhupāda: So use this. This is one of the business. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). We don't stop trade. We don't stop food, producing food grains. But we want to stop these killing houses. It is very, very sinful. Therefore in Europe, so many wars. Every ten years, fifteen years, there is a big war and wholesale slaughter of the whole human kind. And these rascals, they do not see it. The reaction must be there. You are killing innocent cows and animals. Nature will take revenge. Wait for that. As soon as the time is ripe, the nature will gather all these rascals, and club, slaughter them. Finished. They will fight amongst themselves, Protestant and Catholic, Russian and France, and France and Germany. This is going on. Why? This is the nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you become killed. Amongst yourselves. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And here, you'll create slaughterhouse, "Dum! dum!" and killed, be killed. You know. You showed me?
Bhagavān: Yeah, French guillotine.
Prabhupāda: You see. As soon as there is bell, the Roman Catholics began to kill the Protestants. So this is nature's law. You don't require to be sent to the slaughterhouse. You'll make your slaughterhouse at home. You'll kill your own child. Abortion. This is nature's law. What are these children being killed? They are these meat-eaters. They enjoyed. Now they are being killed by the mother. They do not know how nature is working. You must be killed. If you kill, you must be killed. That I've discussed in this now Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Where is Nitāi?
Bhagavān: They kill the cow, which is a mother, and then sometimes they get, when their mother kills them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The mother becomes child and child becomes mother. That's all. Have you got transcription of the vyādha story?
Prabhupāda: I requested that "You are one of the important men. Why don't you agree? Close the slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, take it when the cow is dead. We shall supply you?" What is their objection? What is the possible objection?
Bhagavān: Objection is that the people have become so impatient for sense gratification, they have no patience anymore. They can't wait... There was some story. In the United States, there has been this trouble with petrol, and... All over the world, there's been this trouble with petrol, gasoline. So there was rationing.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference between you and animal. The animal is in the slaughterhouse. He's not worried. But why you are worried. Suppose if you are brought in the slaughterhouse, and if you know that you'll be slaughtered, are you not worried? An animal is not worried. He's eating grass. That's all. So that is the difference between animal and man. If you are not worried, then you are animal. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. But why the leader? The public also drinks. They also encourage slaughterhouse. So if you say to the public that they cannot be leader, then there is no leader. They cannot find out any leader. The public will understand that "I also eat meat, I also drink, do the same thing. Why the leader should be something, saintly person? After all, he is our leader. So we are of the same character. So why the leader should be something different?" They cannot understand it.
Pṛthu: She says that God has not given this intelligence for this bad work, but that is due to the faulty mankind.
Prabhupāda: Therefore misuse of intelligence will cause his suffering. Now suppose a tiger kills an animal, and a man kills thousands of animals in a day in the slaughterhouse. Is he not sinful? (German)
Pṛthu: She says that this is the evil in mankind.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the conclusion is that the so-called intelligent man is simply misusing his intelligence. So when he misuses his intelligence he is less than the cats and dogs. Yes. (German) And then, after death, how he'll be in peace?
Haṁsadūta: I don't know Prabhupāda. We have been here for too short a time to find out who is exactly here, and all the people we contacted, their program was already fixed. They could not come, but they said they would be happy to meet you if you came again.
Pater Emmanuel: Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient. Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The first point is that your commandment is "Thou shalt not kill," and you are maintaining regularly slaughterhouse. The first commandment is disobeyed. Do you agree or not?
Pater Emmanuel: Um...
Prabhupāda: Or in my front the animals are being kept for being killed.
Prabhupāda: But that is imperfect idea. Our philosophy is everything belongs to God. So unless they come to this conclusion, they'll remain imperfect. The equal distribution of wealth, everything belongs to God—that is very good idea. But if it is limited within certain area... Just like the communistic state. Besides that, this is imperfect in the sense, they have no idea who are nationals. Not only they, even the capitalists. National means those who are born in that particular land. So there are animals also. They are also national. But because they are imperfect, either the communists or capitalists, they do not accept the animals as nationals. They are sent to the slaughterhouse. These things are happening because they are imperfect. They have no God conscious views. They have crippled views. They are imperfect.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Reporter: Will they be virtually living outside...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...animals of any kind? Would a Vedic king try to prohibit the fifth-class men from eating the animals?
Prabhupāda: No. Animals, you can eat if you like. But there was no slaughterhouse. If you like, you can kill your own animal and eat. That was open. But the state did not maintain any slaughterhouse. And the third-class, fourth-class men, they would eat. So simply by saying that "You don't eat," they will not accept that. They're free, but the state would not maintain the slaughterhouse. At the present moment also, if the slaughterhouse are closed, then immediately seventy-five-percent meat-eating will be stopped. They maintain slaughterhouse. That is the most sinful activity.
Pañcadraviḍa: Nehru started that slaughterhouse?
Prabhupāda: No, it is British contribution, the mlecchas. Before British period, even in Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse, neither the public used to take cow's flesh. Still in Mohammedan country, Afghanistan, these places, they do not take cow's flesh. Lamb, goats. In the Vedic culture, the cow is recommended to be protected, not other animals. Other animals, the meat-eaters can eat.
Prabhupāda: Simple pleasures?
Jagadīśa: Sinful pleasures, such as becoming intoxicated...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not provide. You create your sinful. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You eat meat," but you open slaughterhouse, so you suffer.
Brahmānanda: But there is a pleasure, a certain pleasure derived from these sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect. We allow everyone to eat. Not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts, they should live comfortably and without any disturbance, they must get their food. That is our Communism. But where is your Communism? You are thinking of your countrymen only, or in your country also only for the human being, and you are sending other poor animals, because they cannot protest, to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest to the capitalists when they send you to the slaughterhouse? You are sending these poor animals to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest? You protest that the capitalist are slaughtering you. So, if you slaughter others, why should you be afraid of being slaughtered yourself? Is it all right?
Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. You are maintaining huge slaughterhouses, regular killing. So, you took instruction from Christ, "Thou shall not kill." You first of all killed him, and then the killing process is going on among the animals, and declaring wars every now and then. So the killing business is going on regularly. In your regular life also. You are maintaining big, big slaughterhouses. Then when you accepted the instruction of Christ? That I want to know. What is that date?
Prabhupāda: Who is following the instructions?
Śrutakīrti: We are.
Prabhupāda: But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: He was against that. He threw the men out of the temple, because they were selling lambs in the temple to be offered at the altar. So he kicked them out, saying this temple is not a place for selling animals for slaughter.
Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of civilization? Where they have gone by crossing here?
Devotee (2): I think they went up that path out there, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: But I want to live. There are... India, eighty percent people, they are vegetarian. They are living very nicely. They are eating sufficient food grain and fruits and milk and milk product. God has given us so many. So why should we maintain slaughterhouse, killing other animals? So a first-class man will not do that. First-class man will think that "I want to eat something to keep myself fit. If by natural products I can keep myself fit, why shall I kill another animal?" And every religion teaches that. Now take in your Christian religion. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouse. So this is the condition of the society. How you can become happy? You are violating the rules and regulation of religion and God. You cannot become... Nature will disturb in so many ways. That is nature's business.
Amogha: So he should first save himself, then think about how to save others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all he must know what will actually saving. That he does not know. He is thinking of his country. Suppose next birth he becomes a cow and his countrymen will send him to the slaughterhouse. So what is the use of having your country? The same country, the national... The cow is also national, you are also national, but the law is the cow is to be sent to the slaughterhouse. Therefore they have been all described as mūḍhāḥ, rascals, only rascals. Except a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, all persons are rascals. Do you admit or not?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Prabhupāda: Well, nature has made them like that. The human beings, they can utilize the land, they can produce so many nice foodstuffs. That is human society. What is this society? They are living in big, big skyscraper building, and for their food the slaughterhouse killing, and they are eating. Is that human civilization? All third class, fourth class men.
Prabhupāda: His ideal is all right. His ideal, Communist idea that everyone should be happy, that is good idea. But they do not know how make ev... Just like they are taking care of the human being in the state, but they are sending poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Because they are godless, they do not know the animal is also a living being and the human being also living being. So for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being the animal should be cut throat. That is the defect. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he is equal to everyone. That is learned. "I take care of my brother and I kill you," that is not right. That is going on. Everywhere. Nationalism. Nation... National means one who has taken birth in that land. But the animal, poor animal, because they cannot make any protest, send them to the slaughterhouse. And if there were ideal men, they would have protested, "Oh, why you are doing this? Let them live also. You live also.
Devotee: Should we tell all Christians like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? That they're killing?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are killing actually. They are maintaining slaughterhouse. What kind of Christian they are, I do not know.
Gurukṛpa: He admitted it, that they say it, but they really don't follow it.
Prabhupāda: If you don't follow the Christian principles, then how you are a Christian? Just to make a show-bottle. They don't believe in next life, don't believe in the Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: No, veri means lamb or sheep. Their walk... If you can push one of them in the slaughterhouse, all of them enter. This is called veriya dāsan. You haven't got to endeavor to push others. You just push one only. "Fut, fut, fut, fut, fut, fut, fut," they all enter. (Laughter) In Hindi it is called veriya dāsan. Just cheat one veri, and all others will be followers. (break) Long ago, when we were boys, we saw one comic cinema. That old cinema player was... His name was Max Linder. Max Linder. So this Max Linder was going to a ball dance, and he was waiting in the park, and the ball dance coat, you know? It has got a tail. So he was sitting in a bench, and some naughty boys came and they nailed the tailing part. So when he got up it became torn, like... So his, this hip was visible. So when was dancing in the ball others were seeing his, "What is this?" (laughter) So he went to the mirror, he saw, "Oh?" So he began to dance and show everyone like this. So others said, "What is this?" "This is the latest fashion. This is the latest fashion in ball dancing." "Oh?" Then all cut their tail coat. You see? "The latest fashion."
Prabhupāda: That is the easiest way of being directly in touch with God. Because God and God's name, they are absolute, so your chanting the name of God means that directly in touch with God.
Dr. Crossley: Why is that better than loving your fellow man in the traditional bhakti-mārga?
Prabhupāda: But you love your fellow man, but you don't love your fellow animal. You love man, but you send the animals to the slaughter-house. That is your love.
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand this. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am expanded by My energy everywhere." So the everywhere how you can go? You love Kṛṣṇa, and your love will go everywhere. You pay tax to the government, and the tax is distributed in so many departments. So it is not your business to go every department and pay tax. Pay to the treasury of the government; it will be distributed. This is intelligence. And if you say that "Why shall I pay to the treasury house? I shall pay the this department, that department, that department, that department," you can go on, but it will never be sufficient, neither complete. So you may love humanity, but because you do not love Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not love the cows; you send them to slaughterhouse. So your love will remain defective. It will never be complete. And if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you will love even the small ant. You will be not interested even to kill even an ant. That is real love.
Dr. Pore: Are you saying that you should never kill a cow but that you sometimes can kill a person? Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). This is a place—in every step there is danger. We are walking in a very nice park. At any moment there may be revolution, whole thing is changed. Whole thing is, becomes fire. Just like, in India now it has become. So we should remember that here in this material world, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam, every step there is danger. Give up this place. That is the real intelligence. And the education misleading them, māyā-sukhāya, making gorgeous plans for temporary happiness. That's all. If in the slaughterhouse the animals are kept very comfortably, so what is the meaning of it?
Prabhupāda: It is sure that all the animals will be slaughtered, and if the arrangement is "All right, before being slaughtered, let them live very comfortably," is that very good intelligence? The intelligence is "Why we shall be slaughtered?" That is intelligence. What is the meaning of slaughterhouse? Who can explain?
Brahmānanda: Everyone dies there.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Dies there... A slaughterhouse, what is the meaning of this particular word?
Devotee (2): They're killed brutally.
Harikeśa: A specific place where all the animals are killed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All of a sudden many animals are killed at once. So this is also slaughterhouse. When there is need, many animals will be brought into war and killed. It is slaughterhouse. And the foolish animals, they are thinking, "We are now very comfortably situated." He forgets that "I am going to be slaughtered." Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt, the ocean of slaughterhouse. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt. A slaughterhouse, being accepted as... It is called mṛtyu-loka. Mṛtyu-loka. So still, they are taking it as very comfortable place. This is their intelligence: a slaughterhouse is being accepted as very nice place. What is the answer of these animals who are going to be slaughtered?
Devotee (3): Animals don't have an answer.
Satsvarūpa: A lightening bolt hit the plane.
Prabhupāda: Lighting...?
Harikeśa: Thunderbolt.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Just see, slaughterhouse.
Satsvarūpa: You said in your lecture the other day in Los Angeles that when that happens that many people are killed in one place, it means that it's arranged by the Supreme. Just like Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated by Kṛṣṇa, that "You are thinking very patriotically that you will not kill. But it is already settled. They must be killed here. I have brought them. You kill or not kill, they will be killed. That is My plan.
Prabhupāda: Well, at least he will not take, and the economy will go on. There will be a class of men like him. They will never take. So there is no problem. Your economy will go on. (laughter) (break) ...the prisoners become free, how the prison house will go on? Is that very nice question? What is the use of prison house? For the criminals? (break) ...thinking in that way, that "We are giving up meat, and the slaughterhouse proprietors, they are sorry. Then how our business will go on?" As if that is a very nice business. The sooner you close that business, it is good for you. But he is thinking "How my business will go on? If all these people give up meat-eating, then how this slaughterhouse will go on?" That is the logic. And our logic is the sooner you close this slaughterhouse, the better for you. This is our logic. (to devotee:) Which way? (break) ...liquor shop, the breweries, they are worried, "How business will go on. They are giving up." Cigarette factory. They will be sorry.
Kuruśreṣṭha: The main industry in this state of Colorado is the slaughter of cows. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...jīva mā mara. The slaughterhouse maintainer is advised that "You don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. "Your position... Now you are... If you live, just see how horrible business you are doing. And if you die, you will be slaughtered. So better you don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. (break) ...nice park, nobody is coming. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we are taking advantage. (laughter) They have worked so hard, they are sleeping. We are taking advantage. So they are escaping or we are escaping? Just see how foolish they are. They have worked so hard, and they are not taking advantage. We are taking. So our policy is that "You work hard, and we go and take from you." This is not escaping.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all a concoction. Certain devotees have concocted. They have taken advice from other masters, food masters, what to eat, what not to eat, all concoction. It's clearly written in Bhagavad-gītā, those foods which are sattvic-juicy, fatty. Everything is mentioned there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guide them. (break) ...here the main business is slaughterhouse.
Brahmānanda: In this state.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cow country, it's called. They call it that. On the highway you see that, "Cow country."
Prabhupāda: Chicago is also this...
Jayatīrtha: In Detroit—that's the biggest crime city in America—one out of every thousand people gets murdered every year. If you live there for fifty years, you have one chance in twenty of being murdered. (break)
Prabhupāda: Prosperous. The business is slaughterhouse. All butchers. (laughs)
Brahmānanda: The butcher community.
Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse and eating meat. No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk.
Prabhupāda: No, that is infection. If you are weak, you are infected. That is the science. One who is not weak, he does not become infected. Just like in your country there are so many liquor shop, but you are not interested. So it is like that.
Dharmādhyakṣa: We have a little strength through your divine grace.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many slaughterhouses, but we are not infected. So it is the strength that saves one man from infection. (break) ...learned scholars, they are astonished that I have hypnotized. Otherwise how it is possible? What that Judah's, "charis"...?
Brahmānanda: Charismatic.
Prabhupāda: Charismatic.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom." Then Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You go here, in the brothel, in the..., these four things." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ: "Illicit sex, and slaughterhouse, and liquor shop, and gambling." Then he requested that "Instead of going so many places, you give me some place where one place will be sufficient." Then he said, "You go where there is gold. Then you get everything." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ.
Brahmānanda: And that way there is cooperation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, bulls, should have helped in spite of that... instead of that machine. Then it is properly utilized. And others, they cannot utilize these animals. Therefore, what they will do? Naturally they will send to slaughterhouse. But we are not going to send to the slaughterhouse. Then what we will do? They must be utilized. Otherwise simply for growing food that the cows and bulls we engage ourself? You are already feeling burden because there are so many bull calves. You were asking me, "What we shall do with so many bulls?"
Nityānanda: Well, when they grow up we will train them as oxen.
Prabhupāda: No, what the oxen will do?
Nityānanda: Plow the fields.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Transport, plowing fields. That is wanted. And unless our men are trained up, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will think, "What is the use of taking care of the plows (cows)? Better go to the city, earn money and eat them." Which one? Huh? That? We shall get on?
Prabhupāda: We are in the material world means everyone is diseased. (break) māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ (BG 7.15). This is described. This is the material disease. I explained how they are committing sinful life: slaughterhouse, this liquor house and so many things, simply sinful. And they do not know they are going to suffer again in another body. He's going to be slaughtered next life. "Life for life." You are taking life, so many lives; you have to give so many times life. Take birth and become killed. Take birth and become killed." There is no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: What is the doubt? Doubt means they cannot drink, they cannot continue slaughterhouse, they cannot continue brothels. That's all. This is their doubt, that "How these things will be maintained? This is our life." That is doubt, and that is the difficulty. As soon as we say, "No this," oh, they are in danger. Even Marquis of Zetland, "Oh, it is impossible to give up. This is our life." There is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. They cannot think of, especially the Westerners, that without these things one can live. So many, our disciples, left.
Devotee (1): It was in the paper that one lady left four million dollars to her dogs, to dogs in general, to help dogs. Last week, Roosevelt family.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Four million dollars. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...also a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
Prabhupāda: And the slaughterhouse?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't care about slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. "Killing is not cruelty."
Prabhupāda: Take blood from the slaughterhouse and put it. If blood is necessary, the tons of blood available. You take it and put it here. That is also another chemical. That's all. Why don't you do that? Little blood required, there is no question of manufacturing. You can get it from slaughterhouse, tons. Take little drops and put it. It is blood. Where is your science, nonsense? It is practical suggestion. Challenge then in big, big meeting. (break) ...past it was coming this side, and fifteen minutes, it has gone down. How many tons of water has gone down on this beach within fifteen minutes? Is there any scientist who can...?
Brahmānanda: They cannot control the water in that way. (Break) It's like there was a big valve, and someone has shut the valve...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal, your government is rascal-democracy. What is the government? Government means your replica. So why do you blame the government? You are fools, rascals; you send other fools and rascals and suffer consequence. (break) ...tea, growing tobacco, growing jute, and no grains. And grain for the animal, so that animal, as soon as it becomes fatty, send it to the slaughterhouse, and then finish business. Smoke, eat meat, drink, and be happy. So much land, but it is producing tobacco, which we are prohibiting, "No smoking." (break) Vegetable is utilized. (Hindi) These crops. (Hindi) (break) ...nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām.
| Page Title: | Slaughterhouse (Conversations, 1974 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Serene |
| Created: | 15 of Feb, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=84, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 84 |