Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after taking leave from His mother, left Bengal towards Orissa, and on the entrance of the district of Balasore there is a nice temple called Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple. And He saw the temple. Here the scene is to be arranged that there is nice temple and within the temple there is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity, Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. The pūjārīs are there, ārati is being taken place, and at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu entered with His followers chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He saw the Deity and danced before Him. And when the ārati was finished, prayer was finished, then He sat down, talked with His associates, Nityānanda and Gadādhara and Murāri. So Nityānanda Prabhu described about the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha, the story of Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. It was very nice story, that formerly one ācārya, Madhavendra Purī came to this temple, Gopīnatha, and while that condensed milk which is called kṣīra was being offered to the Deity, Madhavendra Purī wanted to taste it so that he would also prepare such condensed milk and offer to his Gopāla. So after that he thought, "Oh, it is being offered to Kṛṣṇa and I wanted to taste it. So I am so greedy." So he left the temple, that "I am not worth to visit this temple." He went outside the temple and sat down underneath a tree and was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then at dead of night, Gopīnatha, the Deity, was awakening His priest by dream, that "You please get up. I have kept one pot of condensed milk behind My..." What is called... That (pid?) vastra, kings, sometimes they have got, very long tail-like. What is that called?
Sit down (Conversations 1967 - 1973)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsīn, the restriction is the sannyāsī should not beg from pound-shilling man or see them. That is a restriction. Women and men of pounds-shillings-pence.
Hayagrīva: But I thought Rāmānanda Rāya was a devotee.
Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.
Hayagrīva: Rāmānanda Rāya.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Well, is that important? That's the scene about the meeting.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Which situation?
Interviewer: Utopian-like, where there is no harm, no..., all is good, and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal. A man who has no God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is no better than animal because he has no other business than the four principles of bodily demands. So that is also prevalent in animal kingdom. Therefore this is a privilege for human being, to understand about God, and as such, in every human society there is some sort of religious principle. This religious principle means to understand God. Either you take it, Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism, every religion is trying to understand God according to their capacity. So without this understanding, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, human life is as good as animal life.
Prabhupāda: Initiation means formally acceptance of the line of activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Before that, before initiation, we invite everyone to come and sit down with us, chant, dance, take prasādam, hear philosophy. And if he understands, "Oh, this is very nice," then he offers himself to be initiated. Then we accept. Then we impose this restriction that "If you want to be initiated..." We get hundreds of letters by everyone who has attended our classes. Daily we are getting some married couples or boys and girls, but most of them are younger. My students are within thirties. The oldest student I have got at the present moment, he is twenty-eight years. No, Kirtanananda is about thirty years old. That's all. So, of course, I do not get any older people. That is nice, hopeful, because younger section, if they take it very seriously, then I have hopes that they will preach in future, even in my absence. And old people, if a man becomes too much accustomed to a certain limited habits, in old age it is very difficult to give it up unless one is extraordinarily intelligent.
Interviewer: What is the purpose of the robes and having your head shaved?
Prabhupāda: It will have to be finished in sixty volumes like this. So about ten, twelve volumes are already finished. So I'm going on working on this. So it is a great subject matter for study. So people should take interest in it. It is not anything trifle thing. People should come to us to understand. We have got literature. We have got philosophy. Everything we have got. It is not a blind, imposing thing, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So everyone who actually wants to give some service to the society, to the humanity, they must study this philosophy and get prepared to meet anyone, scientists, philosopher, poet, talk with them, and he can give answer to all their questions. But our method is very simple. We call everyone, even to the child, "Come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then gradually he realizes. But if anyone wants to understand this philosophy through knowledge, through books, through philosophy, logic, we are prepared. But for the mass of people we give the simple method. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, and he realizes. All these boys, they're not philosophers. They're not very highly learned but they're developing simply by chanting. This is so nice. It is for the greatest scholar and it is for the innocent boy. Therefore it is universal. Even for the animals. Yes. We have seen. Sometimes dogs they also dance to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness chanting. Yes.
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is self-hypnosis.
Interviewer: Hypnotizing yourself.
Prabhupāda: No, it is no question of hypnotizing. Meditation means to search out what I am. Just like if you sit down quietly, if you see your body, first of all see your finger, and question whether I am hand? You'll say, no. Whether I am this head? You'll say no. Whether I am this leg? Because everywhere I will say, "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my sole." Everything "my." So you have to find out what is "I."
Caller: I see.
Prabhupāda: Unless you come to that point, what is "I," there is no meaning of meditation. Then the meditation is finished. Now, the activities after meditation begins. Meditation is to search out what you are. As soon as you know your identity, then your real activity begins. So we take it from Bhagavad-gītā what is my real identity and begin our service. So that is called devotional service.
Interviewer: We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. We'll be back in a minute. (break) KGO.
Prabhupāda: Cintāmaṇi... That is description of Kṛṣṇaloka.
Yamunā: From the Brahma-saṁhitā?
Gargamuni: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have?
Yamunā: Yes, I have a copy of it.
Prabhupāda: Sit down? Why do you keep there?
Gargamuni: So it's not too loud.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (Prabhupāda chants Cintāmaṇi and other prayers)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Practically everything depends on practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). Abhyāsa-yoga. Abhyāsa-yoga means yoga practice... Practice it. So this whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to practice transferring from one kind of consciousness to another. So we require practice. Just like one man can run few miles. I cannot run even one mile. He has practiced. We see some boys, they run, run on. They practice. Practice it. Strength of the heart increasing by practice. And if I run, my heart will be palpitating. Because I have no practice. So by practice, everything can be attained. Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. (break) ...determination. And this determination is increased by celibacy. Brahmacārya is recommended to keep oneself determined. A brahmacārī, if he determines something, he executes. He has got that strength of mind. Those who are too much addicted to sex life, they cannot be determined. They cannot be fixed-up. They are fluctuating, changing. People are, in modern day, they cannot sit down in a place for a long time. Therefore so much traveling. The traveling business is very prosperous. Everyone wants to travel. They cannot fix, fix up. So the processes recommended, they're very valuable, but it is not possible to follow them all in the present age because everything is reducing. So our method is to pray to Kṛṣṇa to give us the necessary strength. That's all. Otherwise, by regular practice, this age is very difficult. Unfavorable. First thing is memory is very short. We cannot remember. Life is very short. Life is short, at the same time, so much disturbed by anxiety, by disease, by natural disturbances. Roga-śokādibhiḥ. Short life; that is also disturbed by disease and lamentation. Every moment there is something for which you have to lament. "Oh!" Roga-śokādibhiḥ. And disease.
Prabhupāda: "...you, under the direction of Lord Śiva. I worshiped Lord Śiva very successfully, and I prayed from him some sources of my happiness. So he has directed me to see you, that you have got that thing. So please give me that." So Sanātana Gosvāmī said "Well, what can I give you? Oh, all right. Can you find out some stone in that garbage?" There were heaps of garbage, and the man searched out and found out a stone. "Sir, do you mean to say this stone?" "Yes." "So what is this?" "This is touchstone. You take it and touch it to iron. It will become gold." "Oh, you are very ... You're so... Now I shall become the richest man in the world. I shall take heaps of iron and touch with this stone, and it becomes gold." So he, with great joy, he went out and he tried that actually, touching the stone, iron is becoming gold. But he thought that, "Lord Śiva directed that Sanātana Gosvāmī has the greatest benediction, I do not think this stone is greatest benediction because it was placed with garbage." So he came back and appealed to Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Lord Śiva told me you have got something most valuable. I don't think this stone is most valuable. Otherwise, why would you keep it in the garbage? You must have something more valuable. So you must give me that because that because Lord Śiva directed me to receive from you." Then Sanātana Gosvāmī told him, "Would you like to take that?" "Yes, sir. I have come for that purpose." So he asked him, "First of all, throw away the stone in the Yamunā River." So he threw away the stone. "Sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: "Forget everything. Sit down with me and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Gargamuni: He did it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he associated with sādhu, Lord Śiva, Sanātana Gosvāmī. So everything was purified, changed. By association, good association, everything is possible. Therefore you have to make this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so perfect that anyone who comes in contact with that association, he becomes purified automatically. The association is so important. Anyone who will come in contact with the association, he'll be purified. Just like by association one becomes contaminated, similarly, by counter-association, one becomes free from contamination.
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Swamiji? I'd like to ask you is this good enough for the flute? This would be for the head of the flute.
Prabhupāda: Wood? It can't be.(?)
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: No. I'd cast it in gold.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This ivory?
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Yes, that's ivory.
Prabhupāda: So what do you want to do?
Prabhupāda: Tape recording is going on?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You can sit down. So everyone is working. Never mind in whatever occupation one is engaged. That doesn't matter. But one has to test whether he is becoming successful. Because everyone wants success. We are not animals that without any success we shall work hard labor. That is animals' business. Just like several times I have given the example, dophara gadha, the ass of the washerman. That kind of business and work is no use. Dophara gadha, ass of the washerman. Here, of course, you have no experience. In India there is a class who are called washermen. In India there are different castes. Washerman, a class; barber, a class. I mean to say... So many departmental. So each and every one, there is a class who take up that work. Sweeper, a class. All the necessities. The clerk, even clerk, there is a class; priest, there is a class; the fighter, there is a class. That is nice arrangement. In India... And florists, there is a class, florist. Their business is simply to supply flower. Fisherman there is a class; butcher, there is a class. Just like we have got a temple, now we require potter. Potter, there is a class. In Jagannatha temple the arrangement is that... One does not know since how long... (someone enters) Come on. In Jagannatha temple... Sit down. Jagannatha temple, the prasādam is cooked every day in new earthen pot. No old pot is used. Once used, it is thrown away. Formerly, this was the system in India. Even dishes, once used, it is thrown away. No washing. Even golden dishes, silver dishes, once used, it is thrown away. And now golden dishes, there is no use of golden dishes, neither nobody throws it away, but that was the system. Now the earthen dishes... Just like china clay dishes, this is considered impure because it is repeatedly used. In India, those who are strict Hindus, earthen dishes, once used, it will be thrown away.
Prabhupāda: The community is supposed to be there. The potter is there, the washerman is there, the grocer is there, the milkman is there, everyone is there. So we haven't got to form community.
Śivānanda: No. In the correct position then, the temple would be the center of the community.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, hear Bhagavad-gītā. We don't say, "Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed." We don't say that. "Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed." No. We don't say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on. And what is the business? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone can do it. And what is the next business? We read some nice philosophical portion from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yes. You have got ears. (shouts:) But the rascals are not coming! That is their rascaldom. Because they will go to hell. We are offering the greatest facility, but they are so rascals they are not coming. This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated. They have been trained in such a way that they don't like this. But this is their success. Bhāgavata says, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Vibhāgaśaḥ means sectional division. "My dear learned brāhmaṇas..." Because Suta Gosvāmī was speaking to very learned assembly of brāhmaṇas Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because it is understandable not by ordinary class of men. But they are not disallowed. It depends on the speaker to present very nicely for their understanding. It is not, I mean to say, stopped. Nityam bhāgavata-sevaya (SB 1.2.18). This is the process.
Prabhupāda: If you kindly come and hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased upon you. Anyone. Suppose if somebody is interested with you, he likes your activity, he likes to hear about your qualities, you will be also pleased with him. "Oh, this man is interested with my affairs." So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Kṛṣṇa is within and without because He is all-pervading. It is not that He is simply without or within. He is within and without. That is all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. And all-pervading does not mean that He is not in Goloka Vṛndāvana. He is there also. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Although He is in His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He is everywhere. Just like sun. He is ninety millions miles away from here, situated in sun globe, but he is everywhere. This light now, it is sunlight. So if sun can remain in that way, everywhere, why not the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He also remains everywhere? So He is within your heart. And when He sees that you are interested in hearing about Him, He becomes sympathetic. He is sympathetic to everyone. Still more sympathetic. So what does He do? Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa, when He sees that one is interested in hearing about Him, then He gives you facility. What is that facility? That facility is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Kṛṣṇa-kathā, talks about Kṛṣṇa, you, either you understand it or not understand it, it doesn't matter, if you simply sit down to receive, give aural reception to such message, you become pious. Immediately. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. You don't understand; simply you talk and discuss and hear, you become pious. Just like fire. You come to the fire, you understand it or not understand, you get warm. That facility is there. You don't require to understand how fire is produced, what is the chemical or physical constitution. You do it, understand or not understand. Just like you sit down on a car, motor car. You understand it or not understand it, what is the engineering of the car, but you run on.
Prabhupāda: You remain what you are. We don't say that you change, but you hear. Śruti-gatāṁ. Śruti means this ear. God has given you this nice thing. You just inject this transcendental vibration through this ear. And when you will, you purify yourself, then you'll know how to make your life successful by your occupation. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate param (BG 18.46). Saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi means perfection. So even fifty years... Not fifty. About sixty years before, in our childhood, or more than, sixty-five years before, when we were five, six years old, this system of hearing in the evening, in every village there was current. And my maternal uncle's house was in the suburb of Calcutta. So in our childhood, when we used to go to our maternal uncle's house, all the ladies and members being discussed. They will sit down. All the members of the neighboring people, they will come, very big crowd, and they will hear, and whatever they can pay, they will pay. And with that impression, at nine o'clock or ten o'clock, they will go to bed. Very nice arrangement. Usually the meeting was taking place after night, dinner, you see? Say, about at nine o'clock. And from nine to ten, eleven, the discussion would go on, and then the members dispersed and go to their respective home. We have seen. And all the ladies, whole road, they were discussing, "The priest told me..." They discussed very seriously to understand. So they don't require any education. Simply by hearing they become advanced. This is recommended. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ... Śṛṇvatāṁ. Just try to hear, hear, hear. Very nice process. So we are inviting people. We have got so much big space. Unfortunately, nobody is coming to hear. Mr. Khanvar? Why they do not come?
Prabhupāda: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work. Do it nicely. That is expert. If you think that you are unable to do that work, then whatever work you can do, you take. But do it nicely. That is expert. Don't imitate. "Oh, I have no capacity to work in that way, but I want to imitate. Oh, he is doing that. I shall do that." Don't do that. That is not expert. You take up what you can do very nicely and do it nicely. We have so many works. Kṛṣṇa is not that He is static. He is dynamic force. Just like Arjuna, he was not a Vedantist, he was not a brāhmaṇa, he was not a sannyāsī. He was householder. He was military man. But he knew his business, how to do it nicely. So you do your business nicely. That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Kṛṣṇa. So that business becomes Kṛṣṇa. Do it nicely and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And that is your success. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate 'khila pārthiva vānaraḥ.(?) Expert. There is a very nice story in Sanskrit. A monkey. A monkey... You might have some experience, that sawmen, who cut wood? Sawmen. So a sawman was cutting wood by the saw. So at the end of business it was half cut so he pulled down a, I mean to say, a plug so that next day he will come and he'll again begin sawing. So went away. So one monkey came. So monkey sat down there and began to pull on the plug because monkey's business is simply mischievous. So he did not know that his plough (?) and some portion of his thigh was within the hole and when he took out this plug it was, (claps) I mean to say, clipped, and he could not get out and died. So the instruction is that... 'Khila pārthiva vānaraḥ, vyāpare suvyaparam. Avyāpara means a occupation, an occupation which is not fit for you.
Prabhupāda: Of course, faith is the basic principle of everything. If you have no faith, then you cannot make progress in any line of action. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also... Faith is the basic principle. Just like I have come here. I started my classes in New York. So I was alone chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody came. Naturally, out of inquisitiveness, somebody comes. Somebody came and, "Oh, what this Indian swami is doing? Let me see." So he sat down. Some other came. He sat down. Then some of them took it, "Oh, Swamiji speaks very nice. Let me come again." He comes, he comes, and then he gets some faith: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice." Then next point is that he wants intimate relationship with the swami, or me: "Swamiji, I have heard you so many days. I think it is very nice. So I want to be your student." So faith is the basic principle. The next stage is that he wants to become a student. And as soon as he wants to become a student, the next stage is that I accept him a disciple if I think that he is suitable. Then as soon as he becomes a disciple, he follows my regulative principles, injunctions. Then gradually he becomes free from all misgivings and naturally he gives up that illicit sex life or gambling or meat-eating and so many other things. In that way he becomes fixed up. Then he develops a taste; he cannot give up the society, taste. Then attraction, attachment. He wants to do everything for the society. In this way he develops love of Kṛṣṇa. And in the final stage he loves only Kṛṣṇa and nobody else. And because Kṛṣṇa includes everyone, that means he loves everyone.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There is nothing hide and seek here. It is all open. Yes?
Student (2): Years ago, everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Everyone was...? When?
Student (3): When? In the beginning.
Student (2): If you sit down and you look very closely into his eyes, and you get closer and closer and closer and closer. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is their doubt?
Student (2): You can go all the way, all the way, all the way, and what do you find? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You can find. I cannot find.
Student (3): I wanted material world, being in spiritual consciousness is to get...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are trying that. Calling everyone, "Come and push your conscious." We are inviting everyone. There is no restriction. And it is very easy. Just try to dance and chant. That's all. In the treatment they are taking part. That child is taught something of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He'll be a very good child. So it is open to everyone. There is no restriction.
Student (4): (inaudible)
Prabhupāda: Oh. Lecture?
Satsvarūpa: You were supposed to give a lecture today, but because you gave a lecture last night in Buffalo, we cancelled it and I went instead.
Prabhupāda: So you lectured there? That's nice. Now you have to lecture. I will have to retire. (chuckles) I want that all my students now should be prepared. Puruṣottama, you sit down. You are standing. You come here. Sit down. When, at present, when we speak of past, present, future, we refer to this particular creation of my body. Is it not? Similarly, "never return back." "Never return back" means... What is your question? I... missing point. Whose question it...? Yes.
Devotee (1): What is the question? That if we've never been with Kṛṣṇa, if we've never been in Kṛṣṇaloka, then how is it that we start remembering His pastimes and His form?
Prabhupāda: You remember Kṛṣṇa's pastimes by hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can hear Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. That you can remember.
Devotee (1): But how can we remember if we've never known them before?
Prabhupāda: How you can remember?
Devotee (1): If we haven't known it.
Prabhupāda: You can know it by hearing from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why we are citing so many scriptures, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā? Just to remember.
Prabhupāda: Param Brahman. We are all Brahmans. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Every one of us, living entity, Brahman. But He is the chief Brahman. Just like you are all Americans, but your president is the chief American. Do you understand? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the chief Brahman. You are all Brahman, but He is the chief Brahman. Is it clear? That's all right. (Break) ...that "This boy hears very nicely. He does not go away," the first impression he gave to other godbrothers. "So I shall make him disciple." These very words he said. Actually I did not follow him in the beginning. High philosophical speaking and I was a new boy. I could not follow him, but actually I was so much glad to hear him. That's all. So that was my qualification, whatever you may say. I was simply asking, "When Guru Mahārāja will speak? When he will speak? When?" And I will sit down and go on hearing, and I will understand or not understand-others will disperse—I will not disperse. That he marked. Yes. First. There was first one instance. At that time I was not initiated. There was a circumambulation of whole Vṛndāvana. So although I was not initiated, I was one of the important members of the... So I thought, "Let me go. What these people are doing, circumambulating all over Vṛndāvana?" So I went to Mathurā. Then I went to the Vṛndāvana interior, which place was known as Kosi. So in that Koṣi one of my godbrothers declared that "Prabhupāda is going tomorrow back to Mathurā. So he will speak this evening. So anyone who wants to hear him, they can stay. And others may prepare to..." Sit down.
Prabhupāda: You can make scene that people, His disciples, are performing kīrtana and one scene you can make Kazi, Muslim magistrate, is sitting, and the brāhmaṇas, they come. "Sir, you are our protector. You are Kazi. You are magistrate. And this Nimāi Paṇḍita, young boy, He is creating so much disturbance." "What is that?" "He has begun this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is not our Hindu religion. He is chanting so loudly. Now this is the time God is sleeping. So He'll be disturbed. So the whole society will be vanquished if God becomes angry. So He'll be disturbed." So Kazi... After all, Hindus are complaining. So Kazi said, "All right, I am taking steps." So he sent some officers. And they were playing mṛdaṅga, and warned that "You cannot do this. You are disturbing here." That is going on still. Just like our Los Angeles, it is going on. In New York also, they complain to the Kazi, (laughs) police officer. But they could not do anything. So this complaint is going on since the inauguration of the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi first of all warned. Then He did not care. Then the police also came and broke the mṛdaṅgas forcibly. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right. We shall start thousands of men playing mṛdaṅga, and we shall go to the house of Kazi. Let us see what can he do." So He went with many followers, and many followers playing mṛdaṅga, and Kazi became afraid that "The people have become agitated." So he fled away. Then the people began to create disturbance in his garden. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Don't do this." Then Kazi came back, and Kazi was very submissive, and he said, "My dear Nimāi, You are in relationship my nephew." Because Hindus and Muslims in those days, although they had different religions, they had no animosity. They were living very friendly. So the Muslim elderly man will be said by the Hindus as Chāchā. And the Muslims they'll call Ṭhākura Mosai. Like that. Friendly terms. They will invite. In this way they were living. So the Kazi said that "Your grandfather, I call him Chāchā. He's elderly man. So Your mother is my sister. So You are my nephew. So do you think a nephew can be very angry upon his uncle?" And (chuckling) He said, "No, nephew must be obedient to the uncle. But do you think that uncle, when a nephew comes to his house, will not receive him?" "Oh yes. You are welcome. You are my nephew. You are my son." In this way the past incidences forgotten. Then they sat down.
Prabhupāda: No, no. These mantras are also... But Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is specially recommended for this age. And the Vedic mantras, they are also chanted, I told you, with musical, tampura, and they sit down and chant. Nārada Muni, he's chanting always. So chanting through musical instruments, mantras, it is not new introduction. It is from time immemorial. And Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, especially in this age, that is recommended in many Vedic literature, Brahmanda Purāṇa, Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad, Agni Purāṇa, like that. And apart from the statement in the Vedic literature, Lord Caitanya Himself, He preached this mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... And people, public, followed Him. Yes. (break) So anything... Just like a scientist. When he discovers something, it becomes a public property. People may take advantage of it. Similarly, if mantra has got potency, all people should take advantage of it. Why it should be secret?
George Harrison: All people can get the mantras that we have, but it's just they must get it from somebody else. We can't give it to them, but it is available for everybody.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mantra, if it is valuable, it is valuable for everybody. Why it should be for a particular person?
John Lennon: If all mantras are... All mantras just the name of God. Whether it's a secret mantra or an open mantra, it's all the name of God. So it doesn't really make much difference, does it, which one you sing?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Lord Jesus says that he is son of God. He's son of God.
Yamunā: Your cab's here, Śyāmasundara. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is that? You want to hear? Come on, sit down. So there is no difference. Lord Jesus Christ says that he is son of God. So there is no quarrel between God and God's son. So he says that "Love God," and Kṛṣṇa says, "Love Me." The same thing. (laughs) If you say that "You love me," and your wife says that "Love my husband," there is no difference of opinion.
Yoko Ono: But about the knowledge, I'm a bit worried about it, if you have to, you know, learn Sanskrit and all that, and that's the only way to get enlightenment... I mean, what do you do about people who are not sort of skillful in learning languages and things like that? Would that not at all... I mean, I thought that it...
John Lennon: It's translated, anyway.
Prabhupāda: Translation is there.
John Lennon: So you've got to take a risk.
Yoko Ono: But he said, then why don't you go and...
John Lennon: So then you've got to take the risk of reading a translated one.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. You come here. Girls may sit here. You can sit comfortably on this. (Devotees come in and sit down.) What is that?
Kauśalyā: Her baby. Her child. Her son.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadācāra. This is the beginning of sadācāra, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. This is the beginning of sadācāra. So sadācāra means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadācāra, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā... (BG 7.28). This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on. No. One must follow. Meditation, yogic meditation, is also possible when there is yama, niyama, āsana, praṇāyāma—the eight principles of yoga system. And nobody follows the eight principles of yoga system and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help.
Prabhupāda: Of course, if Caitanya Mahāprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting. So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridāsa Ṭhākura going to Jagannātha, Jagannātha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily. It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And when Haridāsa Ṭhākura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra and he performed the funeral ceremony. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was so... And he was given the title nāmācārya, "authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa."
Guest (1): Very correct. To understand Him is a lot.
Prabhupāda: He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer.
Prabhupāda: No, I am asking one ticket for plane.
Devotee (3): You'll fly alone to Delhi?
Yamunā: The Delhi airport?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not difficulty. Ask Gurudāsa to take me. For two hours I can sit down. It goes direct to Delhi from here.
Devotee (3): No, it makes two stops.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.
Devotee (3): But the same plane.
Prabhupāda: Same plane. And you come, all, by train.
Haṁsadūta: Will we open a bank account here? Will we open an account in Indore?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: This morning with Mr. Holi.
Yamunā: So when we find out your arrival time, Gurudāsa, we can inform Gurudāsa when you'll be arriving?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And then the next day you come, all, by train. Thursday we can wa...? What is that Thursday?
Haṁsadūta: Thursday
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Blanket or mattress.
Haṁsadūta: They have blankets in their rooms. They left them in their rooms.
Prabhupāda: Bring mattress and spread. (Hindi) Sit down. This is comfortable.
Guest (1): In God's temple, what human wants? And what type of life he wants so that he can be happy?
Prabhupāda: Not upon that. You spread separately. You have no bed sheet? Bed sheet you can spread. The human demand is happiness.
Guest (1): Happiness, yes. But happiness means increase in which is already happy. It is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, the thing is, what is that happiness? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam: (BG 6.21) "The absolute happiness or the perpetual happiness or the greatest happiness is that which is enjoyed by supernatural senses."
Guest (1): Would that be by all the senses—mind, intelligence...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything but in their supernatural, not in this condition.
Guest (1): Not in this?
Prabhupāda: Condition.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many. Then when he is prac... Because first problem is problem, when he is practiced, "Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us food, so why shall I remain in one place? Let me preach." That is called parivrājakācārya, when he is preaching. Parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering all over. Then when he is experienced, when his preaching is done, he can sit down in one place. At that time, he can chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. And if he imitates from the very beginning, he will be spoiled, that's all. Because in the beginning, if I take Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it is (indistinct). (laughter) Don't do this. Always be busy. First stage, last stage. When one is paramahaṁsa just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, three hundred thousand times, no eating unless he finishes his chanting. No eating, no sleeping. That is another thing. "I shall eat so much, I shall sleep so much, and I shall do nothing, simply chanting." No. That is not recommended by my Guru Mahārāja. He says that you are cheating people. (Bengali)
Revatīnandana: They do that. As soon as the cow is too old to give milk, immediately slaughterhouse. I was talking to one man, he was a cowherdsman here in England. He said he couldn't stand it. He said a nice cow, she would get old, she couldn't give milk anymore, immediately slaughterhouse. Just like that. The most disgusting thing.
Prabhupāda: (people coming in) Oh. You come forward. Give him seat. Śivānanda, you come... You can sit there. Yes. So the God consciousness can be awakened if you stop sinful activities. Otherwise, it is impossible. You go on preaching for millions of years; there will be no God consciousness. There will be no God consciousness. That is the... in Bhagavad-gītā. (people sitting down) Why? You can come here, this side.
Haṁsadūta: You can sit here.
Prabhupāda: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ (BG 7.28). One who has finished sinful activities, he can be engaged in God consciousness. One who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot. Devil citing scripture. A devīl cannot cite scripture. Angel can cite scripture. And according to our ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says that "Don't hear scriptures from the devīl." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam." If a devīl's preaching about God, don't hear." If you say, "God is pure, so let me hear about God. It doesn't matter whether he is devīl or angel. It doesn't matter." No. The argument is sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk is very nourishing food, but if it is touched by the lips, by the tongue of a serpent, it becomes poison. Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. You cannot bring the milk which is touched by the serpent's tongue. So we should receive knowledge of God, message of God, from a person who is not a devīl. Then it will be effective. Otherwise, it will act as poison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. He first of all behaves himself, and then he preaches. So if the preacher is sinful, how he can deliver other sinful men by his so-called preaching. That is not possible. He must be pure, he must be sinless. Then his preaching will be effective. But in all conditions, if we, with faith and love we chant the holy name of God, we shall become gradually purified. There is no, I mean to say, cause of anxiety. Anyone who will chant this holy name, he'll be purified.
Prabhupāda: Thompkins Square in New York. I was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they used to gather. And gradually, they became my disciples, students. So I began in this way, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare... For three hours, from two to five. That's all. And they are still doing that. They are going on the street. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, the same thing, is going on. They are being arrested sometimes. They are being harassed. But still, they don't give up. They chant. This boy in Germany, I sent in Germany. He sat down on the footpath and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This boy. Practically, he started my European movement, he started first.
Guest (2) Gentlemen: Have you been harassed in London at all?
Prabhupāda: I don't think, but they are Londoners. They know better than me.
Devotee: Yes, we have been harassed many times. We have been arrested and left from the prison about twelve o'clock, one o'clock in the night, and then we were far from that place to here.
Devotee: When was that?
Revatīnandana: The last time was a week ago. (laughs)
Guest (2): Would you say that the Americans are generally less tolerant than Londoners to you or more tolerant?
Revatīnandana: America or here?
Guest (2): Yes. Which is the worse and which is the better?
Prabhupāda: America is more tolerant, I think.
Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.
Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.
Mensa Member: But aren't desires biological in cause?
Dr. Weir: They're necessary.
Mensa Member: Yes, but they're biologically necessary rather than spiritually necessary.
Dr. Weir: Well, may I say, let's go farther, that when you say biologically necessary, is it necessary for you to be alive? What scientific...
Śyāmasundara: Prabhupāda has told us that even in the spiritual world there is desire to have the senses enjoy. Isn't that so?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Cinmaya, cinmaya-śarīra (?) we have got. In the Padma Purāṇa, the length and breadth of this cinmaya-śarīra is given: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140).
Dr. Singh: This is my wife.
Prabhupāda: Ah, how are you?
Dr. Singh: And this is Mrs. (indistinct), one English friend of ours who is out..., who is...
Prabhupāda: So why are you sitting down?
Dr. Singh: Because I have a little problem in sitting on the floor, but she is all right.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your humbleness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He has taught, therefore, that
- tṛṇād api sunīcena
- taror api sahiṣṇunā
- amāninā mānadena
- kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
- (CC Adi 17.31)
- (indistinct) because here everyone is puffed up.
Dr. Singh: Ahaṅkāra.
Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. (Dr. Singh laughs) So humbleness is very good qualification. And in the Bible also it is said the humble and meek will reap the kingdom of God. I think you will find.
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purifying everyone. This bodily concept of life, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," they are forgetting. Just like in our society there are devotees from many religious sects, many countries, but they are nobody in that concept of life. They are purely thinking, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is bhakti. This is spiritual platform. So far the material platform is concerned, there is already division. An intelligent class of men, the administrator class. Just like not all everyone is interested taking part in administration. Just like we, at least myself, if you invite me to come to the administration, I will not be interested. We are interested in different thing. So similarly, naturally there is a division. The intelligent class of men, they like to study philosophy, they like to understand what is the ultimate goal of life, so many things. So intelligent class of men should be engaged in that business. They should not be dragged in other platform. And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest: Then only you can hold it?
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Sit down, sit down.
Guest: I will make the camera come after you(?) (laughter) Can you take a photograph?
Devotee: Huh?
Guest: Photo? No, you can't.
Guest (2): I can't, no. (indistinct).
Guest: Very well. I was told you were seventy-six.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: You don't look like that. I think that's not correct age. Surely you are fifty-six. (laughter) How many of you here...? How many are you here...? Will you sit nearer here?
Devotee: I... This is your good ear?
Guest: Yes. This is my good ear. Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, you can stick to all regulative principles provided you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. Otherwise it is not possible.
Bob: Yeah, but this is it. I have... When I'm back in Bihar and my friends may say... Well, we're sitting in the evening, and there's nothing to do but fight mosquitoes, and they'll say, "How about smoking some marijuana?" And I say, "Sure, there's nothing else to do," and then I sit down and I enjoy myself for the evening. Now, we did this... we got carried away, we were doing it every day and realized we were hurting ourselves and stopped, but still, on occasion we do that....
Prabhupāda: You have to live with us. Then your friends will not ask you, "What about marijuana?" (Bob laughs) Keep the association of devotees. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-ras... (SB 3.25.25). We are opening centers to give chance people to associate with us. Why we have taken so much land? Providing for those who are seriously desirous. They will come and live with us. Association is very influential. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you associate with drunkards, you become a drunkard. If you associate with sādhu, then you become sādhu.
Śyāmasundara: He can come and stay with you in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: We are so foolish that we are always thinking, "In the future I'll be happy."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is māyā, illusion. That is an ass. You sit down on the back of the ass and just take a morsel of grass. He'll go. The ass is thinking, "Let me go forward little, and I shall get the ass, er, grass." But it is... One feet distant it always remains. That is ass-ism. (laughter) That is not... Everyone is thinking, "Let me go a little forward, and I'll get it. (break) ...get it, be very happy." (break)
Bob: I thank you so much for...
Prabhupāda: Hmm? (break) Don't talk l-e-a-v-e. But talk l-i-v-e.
Bob: I, I, I cannot yet, but I was thinking now of returning tomorrow to my town. But...
Prabhupāda: Don't return.
Bob: I should stay tomorrow, yes.
Prabhupāda: Stay here.
Bob: You tell me to, I'll stay.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You're a very good boy.
Bob: O.K. Thank you. (break)
Prabhupāda: No. So good karma means performance of the yajñas as they are prescribed in the Vedic literature. And this purpose of this yajña is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Just like good citizen means one who satisfies the government. Law-abiding. Good citizen. Similarly, good karma means who satisfies Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what to speak of satisfying Him. They do not know. They are simply busy in material activities. Therefore, all of them are doing only bad karma, and therefore they are suffering. They are blind men and leading some other blind men. And both of them are expanding the path to hell by bad karma. Bad karma, you suffer. That is very easy to understand. If you do something criminal, you'll suffer. If you do something benevolent for the state, for the people, then you are rewarded, you are recognized, you are given title. Sometimes shot. This is good and bad karma. So... (microphone noise) ...some material happiness, and bad karma means you suffer from material distress. By good karma you get birth in good family, janma. You get riches, good money. Then you become learned scholar, you become beautiful also. Sit down. There is some trouble with your leg? What is that?
Devotee: There is an infection in this ankle.
Prabhupāda: Ankle? Oh, there was some... (break)
Bob: ...who is not very aware of God, but...
Prabhupāda: Then he's an animal. The animal does not know what is God. A person who does not know what is God or one who does not try to understand what is God, he's animal. The animals are with four legs, and that animal is with two legs. And Darwin's theory is they are monkeys. So anyone who does not know God or does not try to understand God, he's nothing but animal.
Prabhupāda: That was Śaṅkarācārya's propaganda. So by the propaganda of Śaṅkarācārya the Buddhism were driven away. There are so many things that one has to study. So Lord Buddha, we accept him as the incarnation of God. And his name is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. And his business is also mentioned: sammohitaṁ sura-dviṣām. His business is to cheat the atheist class of men. That cheating is not cheating. It is for the good. Just like the father sometimes cheats the small child. You see? So that does not mean father is cheater. "Well, he has got some business to do that. That's all." So when I say Lord Buddha cheated, we don't mean that Lord Buddha was a cheater like ordinary man. No. He had to accept some means to lead them to God worship. He is God. So all the Buddhists... I have seen in Japan. Their temple is as good as Hindu temple. They have got Lord Buddha's statue. They offer lamps, and they sit down. They read Buddha philosophy. It is exactly Hindu temple.
Impersonalist: And what is predicted for this age?
Prabhupāda: This side is this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra—not only this side, all over the world. That is prediction of Lord Caitanya: "In every village, every town of the world, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will be chanted." That is the beginning.
Impersonalist: What events are to occur in this age? What events will occur in this age, according to the prediction?
Prabhupāda: They are accepting. Wherever we go, they accept. If one is serious about understanding God, they will accept. If he is not serious, superficial, that is different thing.
Prabhupāda: Lost.
Śyāmasundara: At last he's become void.
Devotee (1): Yes. He surrendered to the void.
Prabhupāda: Simply sitting down like this. He cannot ask whether he is hungry or not. His daughter is always attending, giving him some food, then he is eating. Otherwise, he does not say. Lost everything. He has mentioned Bhagavad-gītā as a mental speculation, in his Indian Religion. So he is such a great offender, he must suffer. But it is good for him. Because he is a gentleman, therefore his offenses are being compensated in this life.
Devotee (1): So he hasn't got to pay next time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Next time he may be getting chance. Because he was at heart afraid of God. Because sometimes he was, "Swamiji, you pray for me to God." He told me that. At heart he was. But because he is impersonalist and mundane scholar, he was writing all nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: There's a whole class of scholars now called literary critics who simply take one book, or not even a scripture but any mundane book, and they spend their whole lives making comments what this must mean, what that must mean, "This is my opinion," "this is my thesis."
Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed.
Prabhupāda: Scientist business is he can become a great devotee. Just like...
- idam hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
(aside:) You sit down. Why you don't sit down like... Yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. Idam hi puṁsas, sviṣṭasya, tapa, sūktasya tapasaḥ. If you are scientist, scientist means you are learned, learned scholar, you know or you've heard from the books so many things. So your duty will be that whatever you have learned, you try to explain all these scientific research work as qualification of the Supreme Lord. Any scientific law, just like law of gravity... (aside:) You are following?
Devotee: Si, si. (Yes, yes.)
Prabhupāda: Law of gravity... The big, big planets are floating in the air. Now you can explain how it is it's floating. The hint is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He enters. Viṣṭabhyā idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42), (Sanskrit) that "I enter into this universe, and by My prowess they are floating." These hints are there. Now you are a scientist; if you are actually devotee, then you try to explain from your scientific explanation that this floating is possible because God has entered within it. That is your duty. And because you're scientist, your explanation from the scientific point of view, how God has entered, how He is acting, that will be very well received by the public. So that will be great service. Actually that is the fact. It is already stated there that "I enter." We can understand. Yes, we believe. I'll explain. Just like that balloon. What is that gas? Hydrogen gas?
Prabhupāda: Ah, no problem. GBC means now they should tour very extensive. That is the first principle, the GBC. Not sit down (in) one place and pass resolution. No, they must be active. They must act like me. As I am old man, I am traveling all over the world. Now to give me relief, the GBC members... I shall expand into twelve more so that they can exactly work like me. Gradually they will be initiators. At least first initiation. You must make advance. That is my motive. So, in that way I want to divide it in twelve zones. And we have to make more propaganda throughout the whole world. Now if you think that the world is so big, twelve members are insufficient, then you can increase more than that and make the zone similarly divided. It is world affair after all.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: The reason why we have thirteen here is because Bali-mardana, he is actually at the Press, he doesn't actually have a zone at this time.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee: So Madhudviṣa is taking my zone.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: For everything you have to learn from a guru. (laughter) Even for how to play. (more laughing) Yes: one, two, three. (more playing of karatālas)
John Fahey: Hey, those are nice bells, I mean cymbals. Oh, boy.
Prabhupāda: So sit down together whenever you find time, one, two, three play, and Hare Kṛṣṇa chant.
John Fahey: Okay. (plays more)
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda!
John Fahey: Thank you.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thank you. (offers obeisances)
Prabhupāda: What is your name?
John Fahey: John Fahey.
Prabhupāda: John.
Devotee: John.
Prabhupāda: Your name?
Marilyn: Marilyn.
Prabhupāda: What is?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that was it. (indistinct) was made.
Sumati Morarjee: Otherwise, nobody will do anything. So, I won't take your time Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down.
Sumati Morarjee: Because you are tired, oldly. I'm going to preserve this mālā.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Sumati Morarjee: I put it, give it to my daughter. She is very fond of roses.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes
Sumati Morarjee: Oh yes, she's crazy...
Prabhupāda: How old is she now?
Sumati Morarjee: She's ten. Today I'll, starting today in the afternoon, I remembered so much that I wish Swamiji was here, she gave a Manipuri dance recital in our office, and became Rādhā.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.
Sumati Morarjee: You know, aṣṭa nāyaka.
Prabhupāda: Acchā.
Prabhupāda: No, they were raised in a bad society, but they have chosen to become good.
John Nordheimer: Is that preordained, or is it by free choice?
Prabhupāda: Free choice. What is preordained? You are here of your free choice. If you like, you can sit down and talk with me, and if you don't like, then you can go. That is your free choice. Free choice makes destiny; if I act in goodness, then my future is good. And if I act badly, my future is bad. That is destiny. Man is the architect of his own destiny. If you are educated, your future is nice, and if you remain foolish, then your future is bad. Future destiny depends on present action. This life is an opportunity to make the next life, and if we behave like human beings, then in our next life we will go back home, back to Godhead. But if we behave like animals, then in the next life we will take animal bodies. That's all. All this is very nicely described in Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that human beings are meant for understanding God, but if we waste our time understanding dog, and if we become attached to dog, then we will become dogs in our next life. And if we are attached to God, we become like God, in our next life. The choice is ours.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Can we get one picture of the group?
Prabhupāda: Yes, sit down. No.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (2): Why don't you all move and please stand... (Hindi) Can some of them stand over that side?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Why don't you... You could come on this side and ladies over there. You people have to sit on your knees. I am sorry. I think I'll take one group, some people, and then do some other. (Some time passes.)
Prabhupāda: So it is a happy meeting?
Guest (6): Yes, Mahārāja is converting (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Please come tomorrow. (Hindi) What time you have given them, any time?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. The ceremony is in the morning but if they can't make it, all day long we'll be distributing prasādam. Come and see the Deities.
Prabhupāda: Nature, they cannot even challenging nature; they cannot understand the nature. And behind nature, there is God. So what they will understand God? They cannot understand the curtain by which God is hidden, and what they will understand God? This is a curtain. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya
yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Just like this planet, this universe, everything is resting on Him, but He cannot be found. Just like if you sit down on this chair, on this bench, I can see the bench you are sitting. But this whole universe is floating on something, but you cannot see on which it is floating. You are so limited. This universe is floating on water, just like (indistinct). Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrām anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.47). Each and every universe is coming out of the pores in the body of Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu. Just like an infected person, he distributes infection by breathing. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, these universes are coming from the breathing of the Maha-Visnu, and again it will wind up when it is inhaled. This is creation. So what they will understand? But we understand because we take the knowledge from experience. Here is experienced knowledge(?). They will simply bluff, "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall know." That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are always hoping against hope, then trying to do something every time.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not less than four hundred and fifty years.
Śyāmasundara: And they used to meet here daily?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They, all the Gosvāmīs, used to sit down there. And Rūpa Gosvāmī's bhajana, he was dancing here, and after his passing away, he was entombed there. But that tomb is Lokanātha Gosvāmī. He is also one of the important Gosvāmīs.
Śyāmasundara: Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi with passers-by)
Śyāmasundara: Could you tell us any stories about Rūpa Gosvāmī while we are sitting here, or any...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister. So after retirement he, under the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he came to Vṛndāvana.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī. So formerly they were living under trees. That I have already described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Later on, when Jīva Gosvāmī constructed this temple, he is nephew and disciple, at that time Rūpa Gosvāmī also, he lived with his disciple. Actually, this temple belongs to Jīva Gosvāmī, and Rūpa Gosvāmī's temple is at...
Prabhupāda: No.
Śyāmasundara: These came after that time.
Prabhupāda: This is..., rooms were existing, but they used to sit down here.
Devotee (1): Was Vṛndāvana mostly...?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) In this place, all the six Gosvāmīs used to sit down and read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Śyāmasundara: And, and did...
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Śyāmasundara: At that time Vṛndāvana was existing as a village or mostly open area?
Prabhupāda: Formerly, before Lord Caitanya's coming here, this was open fields. Nothing...
Śyāmasundara: So everything has been built up.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So after the Gosvāmīs came here, practically, all this Vṛndāvana city has developed. Before that, it was open fields. (Hindi) You developed this photo here in India also?
Devotee (1): Ah, some of it.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: But the whole idea is that if you create a spiritual atmosphere that's so enlivening that everyone will want to participate in it, that's the solution. You can't individually treat each person. You have to get the whole thing generated by, by pouring water on the root.
Prabhupāda: That if you sit down for chanting, they should automatically sit down. If one is left, then you can maybe say, "Why you did not come?" But if there is no chanting, no sitting, simply wake up, wake up, wake up, all right, I'm waking up (indistinct). But one may wake up or not, you begin your work immediately.
Pañcadraviḍa: We go to the āratik.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Pañcadraviḍa: We go to the, up into the temple for the āratik, so he stays in bed and sleeps and we go to the āratik.
Prabhupāda: No, that if he stays in the bed, then ask (him) to leave (?). Yes. Not that fight.
Hayagrīva: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: I just want to say one thing, that this, then I'll leave because this is a meeting of the management here, but I saw the boy after he was beaten, and as far as I'm concerned that was very...
Prabhupāda: That I have (indistinct) later. (to someone else?)
Prabhupāda: By engaging. That is our school. It is a school. If a student does not learn nicely, you cannot say, "Get out." As far as possible. But when it is absolutely impossible to correct him, then you have to ask. And if there is money, equal you have to manage some money, what can be done? But I don't think if we try our best to correct him, this ultimate punishment will be required. Human being, after all human being, and our business is to teach and become ideal ourself. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya. We have to teach by our personal behavior. If you rise early in the morning, if you take your bath, if you sit down regularly and keep them (indistinct), how he can deny? How one can deny? It is not possible. But if I smoke, I ask others not to smoke, that will never be possible. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, first of all you have to be. If one is not cleansing, you shall tell me (indistinct) this way. We have to do like that. Not that I (order), "Come on, you do this. Oh, you cannot do, get out." Not that. We show him. After all, our life is sacrificed for preaching and that preaching means one should behave himself, nicely. He cannot say that "You do not do this." Just like one day in London there was some talks with Nanda Kumāra, you. He was accusing you, you were accusing him. I heard from (indistinct). So you should do in such a way that he cannot accuse you. If you ask him to rise early in the morning, take your bath, and if you do not take. Supposing some special case. I was taking early bath. Now I do not take, because due to my health. That is because... Otherwise regularly I was taking. Not even hot water. Regularly. This hot water bath I have begun in your country, otherwise I have never taken. Even in severest cold. Here also I am trying to avoid. I am keeping tub of water sunshine. Whatever little warm may become, that's all. So, of course, for special health reason one cannot rise, he is sick and cannot attend, otherwise everyone should rise early in the morning, take bath and be ready for performing our service by six o'clock or five o'clock. And the kīrtana party, you should know everyone go. It may be small distance, but all our men should go. That will be real (indistinct), early in the morning. So many parties come.
Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.
Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct). Another, this is general principle, now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property (indistinct). What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now, because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed, otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless, that means there must be sufficient bank balance. Such a big temple.
Prabhupāda: That is their position. They do not know. So immediately you have to challenge that rascal, "If you do not know why you teach? What is the value of your teaching? If your position is 'do not,' then why you stand for teaching fact or truth?"
Svarūpa Dāmodara: At the present time there are no people to protest.
Prabhupāda: So we have to protest. Why we are. We have to protest and kick them on their face. That should be our position. If others are not protesting, why we shall sit down?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why... Others are not protesting. That is why people are accepting.
Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal. And who exalts them? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: other lower animals like dogs, the hogs, śva-viḍ-varāha, camel and ass. So one big animal is being praised by these kinds of animals. So all the population without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have been described as dogs, hogs, camel and ass. So when they vote for another animal, big animal, so this is their position. They are big animal, praised by the dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not praised by any intelligent man. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are animals. These animals, they do not know the actual fact, and they are passing on as leaders, professors, scientists. Why they should be allowed?
Prabhupāda: The spirit is independent. Just like I am existing. That is life. And there are other limbs of the body. I can live even without limbs of my body, but I cannot live without life. If I have no hands, no legs, still I live. So therefore I am not dependent on hands and legs. My hands and legs are dependent on me. (pause) Is it not better to walk little, then sit down, compact room?
Karandhara: Oh yes, it's necessary to walk a little.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Just get my cloth. Where it is? Missing? No, no, no. Harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). Our theory is sound. The rascal's theory is not sound. Ours is not theory; it is fact. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "From Me everything emanates." Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) The Absolute Truth is that from where everything comes." But everything we see, life and matter. This is everything. What we see in this world? Life and matter. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is everything. So life also comes from Him and matter also comes from Him. Energy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But both come simultaneously?
Prabhupāda: No, no, not simultaneously. It is there already. Coming, idea is coming because we are in this limited world. We see everything here, we see there is beginning. So under that experience, we are thinking it is coming. But it's not coming.
Prabhupāda: Now, first of all you have to find out secluded place. Yoga practice is not possible in a hotel or in a public place. It is not possible. You have to find out a secluded place. First condition. Then?
Pradyumna: "...and should lay kuśa grass on the ground and then cover it with a deerskin and a soft cloth."
Prabhupāda: Then there is process of making the āsana, deerskin, kuśāsana, then cloth. You have to sit down in that āsana. Āsana, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, prāṇ... Then?
Pradyumna: "The seat should neither be too high nor too low."
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is there. "It should not be too high nor too low." Then?
Pradyumna: "And should be situated in a sacred place."
Prabhupāda: A sacred place. Just like formerly those who were practicing yoga, they were going to Gaṅgotri where the Ganges is coming down, in the Himalaya, in the Haridwar, in a secluded, sacred place. These are the condition, first condition. So where you are getting these conditions fulfilled? You cannot practice yoga in a hotel or in a club. That is not possible.
Student (2): How do you decide whether a place is sacred or not?
Prabhupāda: Sacred place, generally we take as a lonely place, solitary place. If it is not solitary, it is not sacred.
Student (2): Is sacred the same as solitary?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they used to sit down in the Himalaya where the Ganges is coming. That is a sacred place. If you go simply on the Ganges side on the bank of the Ganges, Yamunā, you will find immediately purified your mind, immediately. Or on a seaside where there is nobody disturbing. These are sacred places. Then?
Pradyumna: "The yogi should then sit on it very firmly."
Prabhupāda: Then yogi has to sit down very firmly like this. Yes, straight, perpendicularly. Then?
Pradyumna: "And should practice yoga by controlling the mind and the senses."
Prabhupāda: Then he has to practice meditation for controlling the mind and the senses. First of all āsana place, sacred place, now, āsana, secluded place, alone. That is stated. These are the yogic process.
Student (3): What do you mean by control your mind, I mean, control your senses? If your senses are controlled, can you see anything you wish or hear anything you wish? Or taste anything you wish?
Prabhupāda: Just explain what is control, mind and senses.
Haṁsadūta: Should I put on the light, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sit down. (pause) He gets such thing, when he gets it, he'll consider that he doesn't want anything more. That is the greatest profit. And the result is that when one gets that thing, even he is in the greatest difficulty of life, he's not disturbed.
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthito na duḥkhena
- guruṇāpi vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
Hm. Take that. Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ labdhvā, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. I think it is in the Sixth Chapter.
Pradyumna: Yaṁ nam?
Prabhupāda: Labdhvā.
Pradyumna: Oh, cāparaṁ lābham?
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Pradyumna: Six-twenty-two.
Prabhupāda: Not at all. Due to excessive heat, I could not eat. Therefore I came here. Yes.
Lord Brockway: I have had a big meal tonight.
Prabhupāda: A big meal?
Lord Brockway: And I do not eat very much usually.
Prabhupāda: I also do not eat, but when there is palatable, I eat. (laughs) (to devotee) Sit down. (Prabhupāda goes to wash)
Lord Brockway: Now listen, I do not wish to detain him long.
Śyāmasundara: All right, whenever you wish to go, you just tell me.
Lord Brockway: Yes, we will, we will go soon.
Śyāmasundara:All right, maybe in ten minutes, eight-thirty, seven-thirty?
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, he likes to speak. He likes to speak with learned men and discuss things.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Exchange of ideas is always healthy. So it's...
Prabhupāda: But we see everything has got Kṛṣṇa connection. Therefore we utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Just like you're talking about Kṛṣṇa, it is being recorded. So it is useful for Kṛṣṇa's service. Why should I give it up? Because the airplane is there, therefore my preaching has been easier. Every year I'm wandering all over the world, twice, thrice. Because if you use airplane. So why shall I give it up? It is giving me facility to preach my Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why shall I give it up? It is mithyā. Just like the Jains, they do not ride on car, but if by going in a car I can go and preach, very swiftly, and come back again, why shall I give up this car? So our philosophy is not like that. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. It is yukta-vairāgya. We have no attachment for all these things. We are sitting in this palatial building, that's all right. But you can talk things under the tree. But if I sit down underneath a tree nobody will come to me. (everyone laughs) So why shall I do that? This is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: No. Our students are trained in that way.
Mother: There are a lot of very good people in the world.
Prabhupāda: Just see. You can see from your son. They can sit down anywhere. They can lie down. There is no artificial living. They are satisfied with nice foodstuff made from vegetable and milk. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, holy name of God.
Mother: I see he's happy. But, you know, he came from a very happy home. So he should be happy, shouldn't he?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mother: Very happy home. Brothers and sisters. And we've all been very happy. And I hope he will remain happy.
Prabhupāda: He's still happier.
Mother: Yes, I can see.
Prabhupāda: He was happy; now he's happier. That is the difference.
Mother: Yes. Oh, I don't think he's happier. (laughter) You are? I didn't think it was possible.
Prabhupāda: You are not happier.
Mother: I didn't think it was possible.
Mother: I agree for some people to, you especially, to think of this because you are a leader of your Vedic religion. But for everybody to do that, where would we be? We couldn't all sit down and think all the time.
Prabhupāda: But where is that education?
Mother: But we... You can also work and think.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, where is that education in the university to prepare the student for the next life?
Mother: Oh, but he must fit it in.
Jesuit Priest: All the Catholic Universities all over the world are doing it. That's our main purpose, is to teach the young man and the young girl the success in this world, but above all,...
Prabhupāda: Then the next question...
Jesuit Priest: ...is the success in the next, which means union with God for eternity. That's top priority. And following Christ's words, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God," then all the other things are of very minor importance. It's closeness to God and return to be one with the Beatific Vision in heaven. That's the top priority, that's our aim in education, and that's what Michael was taught when he was at Sunnyhurst. And that he does well and gets a degree, yes, very good thing. He could be a doctor or an architect or a leader in commerce, what have you, of which all of which are essential for the well-being of the world. This time last year I was dead. I was picked up as unconscious in the corridor, and the doctors said that I had experienced... I was as near death as makes no difference. Well, if it hadn't been for the skill of the man that...
Prabhupāda: So...
Prabhupāda: But... That's all right. If some of our student goes to the university... There are many students...
Revatīnandana: Now wait a minute. We didn't snatch Michael.
Prabhupāda: We don't object to that.
Revatīnandana: Michael came to the temple in London, sat down, and didn't want to go away.
Mother: He'd been taking LSD, and he was very sick. And somebody took him in.
Prabhupāda: So,... So when he was taking LSD, what did you do for him?
Revatīnandana: Why was he taking LSD? He had wonderful education, happy home, so many things.
Mother: Well, he was experimenting. Now this is it...
Revatīnandana: So LSD is acknowledged a dangerous thing to experiment with.
Prabhupāda: You like that? You like that?
Mother: Well, he had a false... This was not...
Prabhupāda: When he was taking LSD, did you like that?
Mother: I didn't know, did I?
Prabhupāda: Then?
Mother: Until afterwards, and we found him.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Guest (2) (girl): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down here. Take this pad, comfortable seat.
Guest (2): I know that our bodies are not eternal, and we have to leave them, and some are made male bodies and some are made female bodies. But our spirits, our souls, are there any difference?
Prabhupāda: No. As spirit soul there is no difference. Bodily difference is material.
Guest (2): Why is there a bodily difference?
Prabhupāda: Because you desired a body like that. God is so kind, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, whatever you desire, He fulfills. So this fulfillment requires a certain condition. So the body is conditional.
Guest (2): I don't know enough to ask you any questions, but I'm very happy to be here.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to understand?
Guest (2): No, no.
Haṁsadūta: She says she doesn't know enough to ask you any more questions but she's very happy to talk with you.
Guest (2): I think the devotees inspiring me a little. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: As you say, there are many oceans. The Christians say, "In my father's house are many mansions." A Chair. (indistinct) Good enough?
Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down.
Guest: This has come a long way from the Barrier Reef, the Pacific. These shells. The shells.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Guest: From the Pacific. From the Barrier Reef, Australia. You know the Barrier Reef?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Yes, that's where they come from, the Barrier Reef.
Prabhupāda: I have seen the reef.
Guest: You have?
Prabhupāda: In Australia.
Guest: Oh, yes. I would like to see that. The sea is wonderful, isn't it? You like the sea they tell me.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Very green, clear.
Guest: Always a different color though. Always a little different isn't it?
Prabhupāda: This is due to government post.
Guest (1): And he also accepted an invitation, we invited him, He said he'd also come, but this Pakistan war started.
Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.
Guest (1): You didn't see the high commissioner there. He sat down.
Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.
Guest (1): Maybe some pious activities that they have.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But this is their duty to respect.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...in this planet. In order to be elevated to the kingdom of God, they cannot go directly from the heavenly planet. They'll have to come here.
Guest (1): There are many stories in Mahābhārata. Many, many kings, they went to heavenly planets and from there. Many stories.
Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). You have got prasāda? Not yet. Come on. Any more? Any more? Another? Come on. (end)
Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). (break) "...anyone greater than Me." That is God. There are so many Gods, false gods, nowadays. Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness. Immediately he has to call greater God, physician. And he's claiming, "I am God." We don't want such kind of God, manufactured God. We want real God. When we see nobody is greater than Him, that is God. (break) ...We accept so many pseudo, pretender as God. But we do not know how to test him, whether he is greater than everyone? Whether nobody is greater than him? Then he's God. Can you find out any, so many gods, who has no greater than him, or equal to him? You are claiming You are God, I am also claiming, God. Then we are equal. Then how you can be God or how I can be God? We are equals. As soon as you find there are equals, or as soon as find there is greater, then you are not God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve." Just like in hospital. A patient is ordered by the physician: "You should not eat anything." So he knows, "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee, when he's starving, he knows, "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this starving condition. It is good for me." He never complains.
- tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo
- bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam
- hṛd-vāg-vapurbhir vidadhan namas te
- jīveta yo mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk
- (SB 10.14.8)
Anyone lives in that way, that "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this distressed condition of life. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I would have been put into more severe condition of life, but He is a little, giving me little pain. So I must be very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa that He's so kind upon me." So if one lives like that, mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk, he has got the claim to become liberated. Just like a son has got the right to claim the property of father, similarly, one who lives like this, he has the claim to become liberated. Mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk. That is... This is Bhāgavata's statement. And similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā, also it is stated... Sit down. Yes. Why you are late? We have talked so many things.
Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā—tāre bali 'kām (CC Adi 4.165).' That is material. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma. That is spiritual. So that picture, that must be kept in a nice altar, regularly ārati and everything should go on. (pause) (break) mūḍha's position. Vyāsadeva has given Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in the Tenth Canto of Bhāgavata. Nine canto are devoted for understanding Kṛṣṇa, beginning from janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme, what is Para-brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is beginning. That Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. What Bhāgavata has described, what is Kṛṣṇa simply... Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Banker: I haven't read most of this. I have a tiny one in my hotel room. There is a Gītā society in this country, leaves a Gītā in every hotel room. I have only read a few selections. Like the Gideons, the Bible. You go in any hotel in India now and you have one Bible placed by the Gideons and one Gītā by this Gītā (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Gītā Press. Sit down, I am coming. (break) In the U.S., I understand, there are 75,000 libraries.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But lot of the libraries in U.S. are running short of funds because the Nixon administration has withdrawn the support of the funds that they were giving to the various libraries.
Prabhupāda: State aid?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have withdrawn the aid.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So now the libraries are complaining about the shortage of money.
Prabhupāda: (To Tamāla) Bring the other light. The second one, down. Yes. How is that. It is not in order? First one. (break)
Banker: I haven't found a common yardstick yet. I prefer my own, but that's measured by my yardstick.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you also prefer this country's, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.
Umāpati: Oh. Jaya.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.
Umāpati: That is the mystical process of this movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyāsī, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (aside:) That's all right. Why water is here?
Karandhara: I don't know, Prabhupāda. It's a low spot.
Prajāpati: Trust means to depend completely upon God?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Just like Arjuna. While Arjuna was fighting the battle, he completely depended on Kṛṣṇa. But he was not idle. Completely, to depend completely on God does not mean idleness. Arjuna is the example. Kṛṣṇa never advised Arjuna that "You are My friend. You are My devotee, completely dependent upon Me. So you can sit down." Never said like that. Similarly, we should remain always completely dependent upon God. That does not mean we shall be lazy and idle and gossiping. We must fully utilize the intelligence which God has given us, but at the same time, we must completely depend on God. This is called "In God we trust."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is called?
Prabhupāda: "We trust in God." I am speaking that American currency notes bears the slogan, "In God we trust."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I am talking on that matter. So if the American nation trusts in God... If not... They say, they have declared. Now, the difficulty is they do not know actually what is God, how to trust. That we are teaching. So the government must come forward to cooperate with us. This should be... There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started. What do you think?
Prabhupāda: At four dhāmas, and Dvārakā. Eh?
Karandhara: Hrishikesh?
Prabhupāda: Hrishikesh, yes, that is Haridvar. So one yogi friend was coming to my father. He said that, he said that "I went with my Guru Mahārāja." They simply sit down and touch guru and after few minutes, he's in Dvārakā. This is, this is yogic power. What your aeroplane will do? Just like Durvāsā Muni, he traveled all over the universe, up to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka within one year. But according to modern calculation, they say, with light year, in forty thousand light years we can approach to the highest planet. Is it not? If they want to go to the topmost planet, how much, how many years it will take? Is there an estimation? But, so far I know, I heard it that, someplace... They have estimated it will take forty thousand leap year. Now, leap year is beyond our calculation. What is called leap year? Light year.
Hṛdayānanda: Light year.
Devotees: Light year.
Prabhupāda: Light year.
Hṛdayānanda: The speed of light.
Prabhupāda: Light year. That is beyond our estimation. And that, such forty thousand. But it is just in your front. We see so many stars out there. You cannot go. Even if you can go, are you going to live for forty thousand light years? So what is your power? Why you are so much proud.
Prabhupāda: But these rascals, they won't accept it, although it is fact. Although it is fact. But they will not accept it. Therefore preaching is required, education required, to bring him into sense. This is fact. This portion of the ocean does not belong to any nation or any person; it belongs to God. This moon belongs to God, the sky belongs to God. But they're thinking, "It is mine." And therefore there is trouble. Just like government. The Senate is there, so they sit down together, and if there is any problem they discuss together to find out the solution. Similarly, they have got this United Nation. Why do they not consider, "First of all let us settle to whom this planet belongs"?
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: They're United Nation, first of all let us settle. They are fighting: "I'm Arabian," "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Englishman..." "All right, let us settle actually to whom this planet belongs." They cannot do that, because all of them are thieves. None of them will agree that it belongs to God. The real fact, that they will not agree. Then how there can be peace? Because they're all cheaters. They want to cheat God. God's property, they're claiming "ours." All thieves and rogues, so how there can be any settlement? There cannot be any settlement.
Devotee (1): If we approached them and we said something like that, they would laugh.
Prabhupāda: That's because they're rogues. Against their ideals. "Why you're laughing like fools? Does it belong to you or your father? This whole world? Why you are laughing like a fool?" You should have said like that. "You're laughing not like a gentleman; you're laughing like a fool. Can you say that it belongs to your father? Or you'll be allowed to stay here in America? After some years you'll be kicked out. Do you know where you were going? Why you are laughing like fools?" This should be the answer.
Prabhupāda: That means it is difficult to teach insane person. That's all. Therefore the best means is, without teaching, "Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and takes little prasādam and go home." Then his insanity will be cured. Then he will be all right. This is our point. We don't sermonize in the beginning. We simply request, "All right, you are very good. Nobody is more intelligent than you. Yes. Please come here, sit down, chant, dance. It is very nice, and takes little prasādam. Go home." That is our program. Then we teach. When he comes to his little sanity, then he will be cured. (break)
Prajāpati: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, the theologians call contrition. Means an actual thinking about how sinful we are, actually meditating on our sinful condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that "I have infected this disease." So simply thinking, "Oh, I have been infected by this disease," that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence.
Karandhara: Yes. Or it's like a criminal. If he commits a crime, it's nice that he laments, but he can't just lament. He has to start working positively.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he must go to the state and offer, "Please kill me." Then state may consider. "I have committed this murder, so the law is: I must give my life. So I am prepared." Then immediately he will be excused. Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. That is the duty of the physician. If somebody comes, patient: "Sir, I am suffering like this." "All right, don't be sorry. Sit down. I will give you medicine." (break)
Prajāpati: ...what these rascal philosophers do, psychologists and scientists, they say the things that are very sinful actually, that Kṛṣṇa says and the Bible and all of scriptures say are sinful, they say, "That's all right. You may do those things." Not only do they deny God's existence, but they say that which is sinful is actually good for you: "Yes. You must have intoxication, take illicit sex life," like that.
Prabhupāda: No good man will say like that. That is the difference between good man and bad man. The same example as I told, that one blind man is going this side, and another man says, "Yes, you are all right. Go this side." This is going on. Either he does not know, this rascal who says, "Yes, you can go this side," that he will fall down in the ocean and die... Both of them do not know. So one blind man, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is giving direction to another blind man. This is going on. Therefore Vedic injunction is to take direction: "You must go to guru." That is in... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Gurum eva, "Must go." Then he will get right direction. Otherwise misguided. (break)
Candanācārya: ...there must have been very many gurus. Were there many gurus then?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: In the early days of this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New York, devotees said they did not know how to treat Your Divine Grace. They did not know your exalted position. I think we are still very much offensive.
Prabhupāda: No, I am servant. I have no exalted position. Servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sat down in a place where people were washing their feet. Yes. (break) ...a representative of Kṛṣṇa. I came to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa has sent so many representatives to help me. I consider like that. Without your help I could not do. So I wanted Kṛṣṇa's help, so Kṛṣṇa has sent you. Therefore you are representative of Kṛṣṇa. That is my conception.
Prajāpati: We're just dogs, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prajāpati: Barking at your feet, that's all.
Prabhupāda: That is your humbleness. That is nice.
Prajāpati: Not humbleness. That's fact.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Candanācārya: ...that there are some things that the guru says that the disciple does not accept.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was reading in one of the books you translated that you said that as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the mentality of all of the people in that area, they lose their desires for material enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: No. Material enjoyment, you enjoy, but not like cats and dogs. You enjoy material life like human being. That is our proposal. Not like cats and dogs. Is it not enjoyment when you sit down in the Deity room and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read philosophy? It is not enjoyment?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes, it is very nice.
Prabhupāda: So this is human enjoyment. And to go to the brothel and drink and fight and talk all nonsense, is that enjoyment?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.
Prabhupāda: That is cats' and dogs' enjoyment. We must enjoy like human being. Enjoyment is not denied. Why should we deny?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: No, but as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there will more of a desire to live simply.
Prabhupāda: That is good for them. That is good for them. Because at the present moment they are missing the aim of life. That is the defect. They do not know what is the goal of life. They are thinking, "We are also cats and dogs." And that is the defect of the modern civilization. Our human life is to achieve the highest perfection. Otherwise this āhāra-nidra-bhaya... Even the small birds they know. Just see how they are protecting themselves. They are also afraid of danger, and they are doing their own way. So if we simply discover atomic weapons for defense, that is not final advancement of civilization.
| Page Title: | Sit down (Conversations 1967 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=78, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 78 |