Prabhupāda: The synthesis is that the superior energy, because it has accepted this material energy, therefore the material world's energy is working. Because I have entered into this body, therefore the body's material, it has no movement, but because I am within this body, it is moving. As soon as I shall go away, then this body is a lump of matter.
Śyāmasundara: He says this dialectic, basic dialectic between being and nothing is the basis of becoming, that because these two things are always conflicting, we are always becoming.
Prabhupāda: Becoming, that's... Therefore, the question becoming means I am now in this awkward position, that I am eternal and immortal but I have been entrapped by something which is mortal, therefore I am changing my position. So when I shall stop this taking of different position, I shall remain in my own being, that is the (synthesis).
Śyāmasundara: The previous example that you gave, that John is a man, man is immortal...
Prabhupāda: That is body, that is body, superficial.
Śyāmasundara: He says that that is a static analysis. That only deals with what is...
Prabhupāda: No, that is, that is static means those who are seeing simply the body. No introspection. They're simply, exoteric, no? Exoteric, what is called? Superficial, that is superficial.
Śyāmasundara: Exoteric.
Prabhupāda: So, but Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Although the body is not mortal, still the proprietor of the body is immortal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Śyāmasundara: So that's a combination of thesis and antithesis into synthesis.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So when we perfectly come to that position then you become synthesis.
Śyāmasundara: That's what Hegel is trying to find out, that ultimate synthesis.
Prabhupāda: He has to find out that he has no knowledge to find out; he has to take knowledge from us. We can help him.
Śyāmasundara: But anyway the basic idea is that every fact can only be understood by relating it to its opposite.
Prabhupāda: That is in the relative world because here everything is relative. We cannot understand what is father unless he has got a son, and he cannot understand a son unless he has got a father. So similarly this world is like that. You cannot understand what is white unless there is black. And you cannot understand black unless there is white. So this is relative world, this is not absolute world. In the absolute world the black, white, everything is one.
Śyāmasundara: Well he says you can find out that absolute world by tracing out all of these black-white relationships in the material world. Eventually you come to the point of understanding the absolute.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Bhagavad-gītā says: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births when actually one comes to the understanding of the Absolute, he surrenders unto Me because I am the Absolute. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching to approach the Absolute. That is our...
Śyāmasundara: He says that for instance by relating one idea to its opposite that we discover a different truth about each of them which transcends their separate truths.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is just like this Bhagavad-gītā says, that dehino 'smin... It says that this dehi, the soul which is within the body, that is immortal and this body is mortal. Two things are there.
Śyāmasundara: Opposites.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: So the synthesis transcends their separate beings.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Śyāmasundara: The synthesis transcends their separate beings.
Prabhupāda: Separate means mortal and immortal.
Śyāmasundara: The combination is higher than both of them.
Prabhupāda: Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam.
Śyāmasundara: Then what is the synthesis?
Prabhupāda: Synthesis is to get out, the soul, from this awkward position of matter.
Śyāmasundara: Is that a higher understanding than understanding the soul by itself?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when soul is liberated, that is higher understanding. The soul should be liberated. He is in awkward position within this material world. He is in awkward position.
Śyāmasundara: Does the condition of being entrapped, enhance the understanding of liberation?
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one understands that he is entrapped, there is no question of liberation. If he's in ignorance that this is the real life... Just like ordinary man, they think this is real life but we are giving education, "No, this is not real life. The real life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Śyāmasundara: Does someone who has been in prison and then he becomes free, does he appreciate his freedom more than someone who has always been free?
Prabhupāda: So, that's very easy to understand. You can apply the same thing in your life. That is not very difficult. Everyone can understand.
Śyāmasundara: So to enhance the understanding of freedom is it, if someone...
Prabhupāda: You come to the platform of freedom.
Śyāmasundara: But say one has always been free. His understanding...
Prabhupāda: No, why? So long as we are entrapped by this material body you are not free.
Śyāmasundara: No but for instance, just an example, there is someone who has always been free in the spiritual world and he comes into the material world...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes for a mission, just like Kṛṣṇa comes. He is not born. He is not born like a materialist. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee also comes, he is also not born. They come with a mission.
Śyāmasundara: I mean if someone is in the spiritual world, he falls down into the material world...
Prabhupāda: Falls down is different.
Śyāmasundara: ...yes, and then he becomes again released...
Prabhupāda: Again he is free.
Śyāmasundara: Is his understanding after release higher than the previous?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Because he has learned something.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Learned something, has become free; just like Nārada is giving history of his past life to Vyāsadeva. You have not read it, conversation between Nārada and Vyāsadeva? He knows perfectly well that I was a maidservant's son and in this way I have become free. That is freedom. Anyone knows. As soon as he comes to spiritual consciousness, he knows, "Oh, I was this in abominable condition, now I am decent(?) position. (indistinct).