Self-realization (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"Self-realization" |"realization of self" |"realization of the self"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "self-realization" or "realization of self" or "realization of the self" not "path of"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Well, these are..., so many people came on that day. At least, they know. They have no interest. That is the thing. That this life is meant for perfection in self-realization or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their dull brain does not allow to understand this fact. Therefore I was explaining last night, su-medhasaḥ good brain substance. So people are becoming dull, and talking all nonsense. They are interested with so many nonsense things. Just like yesterday that gentleman came. You were present?

Devotee: Yes.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Guest (3): It would appear that to claim that you can reach eternal bliss or I don't know what else you might call it, by just chanting, it seems to be too easy.

Prabhupāda: That is one process of self-realization. There are different process of self-realization. For this age, when people are less intelligent, this process is right.

Guest (2): ...what you are doing by chanting is kind of...

Prabhupāda: You chant and you will understand. If you have no child, then how can you understand what is the labor of producing a child?

Guest (3): But then it is like saying that if you haven't ever leaped into a well, you don't know what will happen to you if you leap into a well.

Prabhupāda: First of all you do not know yourself. The first ignorance is that you are identifying yourself with this body, which you are not. First of all try to understand yourself, then you will understand what is God. You do not know yourself.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadācāra.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā... (BG 7.28). This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): Yama, niyama, samādhi, dhyāna...

Prabhupāda: No, that is the process. So what is the end of dharma?

Guest (4): Self-realization.

Prabhupāda: What is that self?

Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is going on. One has no idea what is dharma, what is the end, but he becomes, "Oh, I have appeared for establishing dharma." And when he is asked, "What is that dharma?" "It is to be realized." Then what you have realized that you are preaching dharma?

Guest (4): Sadācāra...

Prabhupāda: Sadācāra is the means. Sadācāra is not the end.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Our conception of God is that He is a transcendental person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara means Lord. The Supreme Lord is a person. As you are person, He is also person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityānāṁ. He is the leader, and we are all led. Or He is the master; we are the servitors. That is our self-realization, to understand that "I am eternal servant of God." In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ: (BG 15.7) "Eternally all the living entities are My part and parcels." So as the part and parcel of anything is to serve the cause of the whole, similarly, all living entities, their only business is to serve the Supreme. That is all.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there. So at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: You meant for Kali-yuga? For the time that we live in right now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the method is authorized. Kṛṣṇa prescribes this. Kṛṣṇa Himself as Lord Caitanya, He says that this is the only method for self-realization or for God realization or to learn how to love God. He says. Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore it is authorized. And it is practically happening. Otherwise, these boys and girls, they are foreigners. They never knew Kṛṣṇa. Now I have got sixty centers and each center, they are on the average hundred devotees and they have dedicated their life. How it is happening unless it is authorized?

Interviewer: Well, you know they say they never knew Kṛṣṇa, and you are, of course right. But different peoples name their Gods in different ways. You name your God Kṛṣṇa. In the Western world, many, many people name their God Jesus, Jesus Christ. There are other peoples in different parts of the world who have different names for the Gods which they pray to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. that's all right. We say in that connection that if you have got a name which is actually referring to God, that will also do. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. So according to Vedic literature, kṛṣṇaś tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the... He has got many names. Thousands and millions of names. This is the original name. So Caitanya says not that you have to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have got actually a name for God, you can chant that. We are not asking you that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got actually a name for God, then you can chant that. We are requesting that you chant God's holy name.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: We require help from personalities like you, because it is very important movement, checking a great mistake in the modern world. Modern civilization is very risky. Risky in this sense: that the human form of life is an opportunity for self-realization, but our leaders, they are miseducating that "You are this body." A basic mistake. But I am not this body, but just like you are sitting there, if I take account of your shirt and coat only, not you as a person, then there is a great mistake. Similarly, the modern civilization, education, everything is based on this bodily concept of life. But actually we are not body. Body is my shirt and coat. Mind, intelligence and ego, that is the shirt, finer dress. And this five element body—earth, water, fire, air, ether—this is gross. Just like shirt and coat. Similarly, we are dressed, the spirit soul. The spirit soul is also a measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important in this sense, that they are trying to bring people to the constitutional position.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Because the method is authorized, Kṛṣṇa prescribes this. Kṛṣṇa Himself and Lord Caitanya. He says that this is the only method for self-realization, or for God-realization, or to learn how to love God. He says. Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore it is authorized. And it is practically happening. Otherwise, these boys and girls, they're foreigners, they never knew Kṛṣṇa. Now, I have got sixty centers, and in each center there are, on the average, hundred devotees. And they have dedicated their life. How it is happening, unless it is authorized?

Interviewer: Well, you know they say they never knew Kṛṣṇa, and you are, of course, right. But different peoples name their Gods in different ways. You name your God "Kṛṣṇa." In the Western world many, many people name their God "Jesus."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Śyāmasundara: Yes, one can see Kṛṣṇa on three different levels of realization. The one level is this impersonal brahma-jyotir-merging level. That is called the elementary step, the first step towards God realization. And then the second step is when one realizes that God is isolated or localized within his heart, and this is the stage the great yogis and mystics attain. They are able to control their travel and attain other certain mystic powers. And then the highest step of self-realization is when one realizes God is the supreme person and meets Him face to face and spends his eternal life in the association of God in a personal relationship. There are five different kinds of personal relationships one can have with God: as His friend, as His father or His parent, or as His servant, like that, or as His lover. So if one, if one comes to this stage of realization, that "I am part and parcel of God," that "God is a person; therefore I am a person, and I remain person eternally," then he gets fixed up in his final, original, constitutional position, relationship, and there is no more higher place to go. So... And in this relationship, he understands that "Because God is very great and I am very small, then my position is to serve God." So I engage in a personal serving relationship, with a personal serving mode. In this way I'm always satisfied. I'm always relating with God, in everything I do, serving Him with everything I have. And this is where the spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa because he engages us in serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like there may be some big man and you want to enter into his service and meet this big man, but you have no qualification. But if this big man has a friend who is also your friend, this friend can introduce you and engage you somehow in this big man's service. This is the duty of the spiritual master. He accepts a disciple to make sure and guarantee that that disciple will meet God face to face, if he follows his orders.

Prabhupāda: Now answer, question, try to understand. What he has explained, have you understood?

Impersonalist: I think so.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is also individual, you are also individual, but He is the head. Just like in our group we are all individual, but I am the head, similarly, there are innumerable individual souls, all over the universe, and the head individual soul is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Ian Polsen: Religion to me means more now that I have come in contact with Kṛṣṇa consciousness than it did before. It means self-realization. It means realization of my relationship with the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ian Polsen: It is to understand that and to realize it to the limit of my intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Say... So first of all you have to realize what you are; then you can understand what is your relationship with God. And according to that relationship with God, when you act, that is religion. That is religion.

Ian Polsen: And one needs guidance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all we have to know ourselves. To know ourselves means self-realization: "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." Then what is this spirit soul? Naturally, part and parcel of God. Therefore as spirit soul my duty is to serve God. That is religion, plain thing. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It is serving me. That is healthy condition. If there is any pain—"Oh, this finger cannot scratch. I'm feeling pain"—that is irreligion. So long the part and parcel of my body, the finger, cannot serve me, it is not normal condition. So every living being is part and parcel of God. So long he's unable to serve God, that is his material condition. But as soon as he's engaged actually in the service of God, that is his real liberated position. Same example: If the finger is diseased, it cannot serve. But when it is serving, that is healthy condition. Similarly, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God. When we are not engaged in the service of the Lord, or God... Everyone is engaged to some service.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible. This is Vedic civilization: how people will be happy. They can be happy simply by self-realization, spiritual realization, because he is spirit.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So one who is foolish, without any knowledge of the future, whatever he's doing is defeated—in ignorance, because it is ignorance. Just like a boy does not take education, does not think of future. That is not very good. We must be prepared for the future, his next life. Yes, where is that civilization? Where is that education, that people are thinking for future life? Is there any educational system at the present moment? So everything is being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Abodha-jāta, these rascal fools, born foolish. He does not inquire about the self-realization, so whatever he is doing, it is all defeat, he is spoiling his time, because he does not know. Ātma-tattvam, the science of self-realization. So in ignorance, whatever you do there is defeat. And they're being defeated and they're thinking "I'm victorious." This is called māyā. This is called māyā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. We are trying to save the living entity from disastrous condition. This is the aim and mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a religious sentiment, no. It is a very scientific. And we have got so many books already printed, and many books coming. Each and every one. You have seen our books?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (5): These non-vegetarian foods and things like that. They definitely make effect on a human nature and behavior.

Prabhupāda: No, there is difference. George Bernard Shaw, he wrote a book: "You Are What You Eat." So eating has got effect. Sāttvikāhāra or... Unless one is in the sāttvika position, he cannot understand about self-realization. It is not possible.

Guest (5): The human beings get dreams, and what's the lesson between the dreams and the actual life. Suppose I have a dream at night...

Prabhupāda: Dreams mean that is also change of body.

Guest (5): It has nothing to do with the human...?

Prabhupāda: No, dream... Just like you forget about this body. Just you have forgotten what body you had in your last birth, similarly, the same experience daily happening. When you dream, you forget that you have got this body. And again, when you give up your dreaming, you come to this body, you forget in what body you were dreaming. So this is the proof that you are living entity, but the body's changing daily. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But these rascals, they do not understand that there is the dehāntara. They are experiencing daily that there is dehāntara, but they do not have any education about this dehāntara.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): In normal life, you mean? Most people, you're talking about.

Revatīnandana: Yes. Because all of our attention is lodged in the mind and the senses, and we are lost to ourselves, so any kind of self-realization process means that you have to control the mind and senses or you cannot be self-situated. Beyond being situated in the self, there may be more, but that's the first point. That's the basic point of yoga.

Student (2): Where does Kṛṣṇa fit into it? Where does Kṛṣṇa fit into the yoga?

Revatīnandana: He wants to know... If being self-situated is one thing, then where does Kṛṣṇa enter into the system? That's his question.

Prabhupāda: Self-situated. When you are self-situated... Just like in the water you are taking bath in a pool. Something has fallen on the water. Suppose your key has fallen. Now you'll have to find out. You are just trying to settle up the water and see where is the key. So when your mind and senses are controlled, then you can talk of Kṛṣṇa. Before that you cannot talk. Because Kṛṣṇa is missing, with uncontrolled mind, senses, you cannot capture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. The same example. When the water is agitated, you cannot see where your things have fallen. You have to wait to make the water calm and quiet. Then you'll see, "Here is my key."

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hawaikila, yes. Hawaikila means in the air there is a fort. It is something like, the Vaiṣṇava considers the heavenly planets, that hawaikila. That's all.

Guest (1): This rich birth is important for self-realization?

Prabhupāda: Next birth?

Devotees: Rich birth, to be born in a rich family.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. But there is facility. Because people are harassed for getting food and shelter. Everyone is working so hard where to get nice food, where to get nice shelter. Rich man means he has already got. So if he's sane, if he's good, has got good association, direction, then he can think, that "I have no anxiety for my food, shelter and other necessities of life. So how I shall utilize my time?" And if he gets good guru, then he can utilize very nicely, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a chance. He hasn't got to work. Because people are very much perplexed how to get shelter, how to get food. But he has got the chance. He hasn't got to endeavor for food and shelter and other necessities of the body. Ample he has got. He can save time for spiritual advancement. That is an advantage. It is not necessary. It is almost disadvantage. But actually it is advantage. Unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they take advantage of it that "I have got so much money, let me enjoy sense gratification." Māyā dictates, "Oh, you have got so much money. Utilize for wine-woman." That's all.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Parsee, Urdu. But he admitted his fault, that "Everyone calls me as paṇḍitjī, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am. This is my 'paṇḍitjī.' Therefore I have come to inquire from You what I am." That is brahma-jijñāsā. Nobody knows in this material world what he is. Everyone is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am woman," "I am man." This is their... is their... They do not know. Brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gītā the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijñāsā. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām. If people are simply engaged in the four principles of bodily demands-eating, sleeping, mating and defending—that is visible in animal life also, so that is not very advancement of civilization. So our attempt Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to come to the responsibility of human life. This is our Vedic civilization. The problem of life is not the difficulties for a few years of this duration of life.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Hanumān: So I am half asleep.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... Therefore Vedas says, uttiṣṭhata. "Get up, get up, get up!" Jāgṛta. "Become awakened." Prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. "Now you have got the opportunity. Utilize it." This is Vedic injunction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgṛta prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. This is Vedic in... Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are Vedic injunctions. So we are preaching the same thing, that "Reality is here, Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain in this darkness. Come to this consciousness." That is our preaching. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. (break) ...experienced the sunshine, bright day, and this gloomy day. So when you are in darkness, we must have to admit, "There is light." Because darkness means absence of light. So as we are in the darkness of this material existence, there must be something life of light. That is spiritual world. That is reality. (break) ...ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I don't belong to this darkness, darkness atmosphere. I belong to the light atmosphere." That is self-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Girirāja: "Similarly, a living entity may be very careful and fearful in the matter of executing his duties, but it is still very difficult for him to know what type of body he is going to get in the next life. Mahārāja Bharata was very faithfully executing the duties of self-realization, but by chance he contacted temporary affection for a deer, and he had to accept his next life in the body of a deer." (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not liberal. He was truthful. He used to bring all the sons as soon as born to Kaṁsa, and he was killing.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "In household duties and are forgetting our real duty of self-realization." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Those who are gṛhamedhis and do not know anything else except maintaining the family, they are called gṛhamedhi. And those who cultivating spiritual consciousness in gṛhastha life with family and children, they are called gṛhasthas. That is the difference between gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. So gṛhamedhi, they have no aim of life, of self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. (break) ...self-realization. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2), who cannot see what is the ātma-tattvam, what is the path of self-realization. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī... Sannyāsī does not mean that he will beg for fulfilling his hungry belly. Sannyāsī means he must enlighten—that is sannyāsī—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...rājendra nṛnaṁ santi sahasrasaḥ apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2).

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: They can eat down. (laughter) These rascals are thinking eating on this top, this is their advancement of civilization. And waste energy. The human energy is so valuable that one can understand his real life, self-realization—that they forget. They wasting the energy for making a restaurant on the sky. They think it is advancement.

Dhanañjaya: They want to dominate over the material energy.

Prabhupāda: What is that dominate? One kick will finish everything. That is illusion. They are thinking, "We are going to dominate," but they are dominated always. Therefore, because they have no intelligence, they cannot understand. One earthquake can finish all this. All go down immediately. So what is that dominate? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ kar... (BG 3.27). The prakṛti, nature, is giving chance just like father and mother give chance that the children pile up stone and sand. "Let them play." Similarly prakṛti, mother prakṛti, nature, giving all this, "Let this rascal play like that. What can be done?" He does not know that "After this piling of stones and bricks, I will have to leave this place.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: And no ability even to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No, because they have no knowledge. How we can enjoy life without knowledge? They also accept that for this comfortable situation they require knowledge. The engineering knowledge, this knowledge, that knowledge. But that knowledge is not sufficient. You require another knowledge. That you are lacking. You are deficient in that knowledge, self-realization. That is the defect. This knowledge will not help you. For eating, sleeping knowledge, this child, if I give him some eatable, immediately he knows the knowledge, "This is eatable. I shall capture it and put it in the mouth." It doesn't require any education. That is natural. If I love this child, he will respond. This knowledge is already there. Even a dog, "Tch, tch, tch, come on, come on," he will come. So for this eating, sleeping, mating, the knowledge is there in the animals, in the children. That doesn't require any advanced knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (To child) Come on. Come on, yes. Very intelligent. (laughing) Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Ants also. Everyone knows. God has given that intelligence. Everyone knows how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend. Everyone knows, according to their... But everyone except the human being does not know what is self-realization. That is only prerogative of the human being. So if they are not utilizing his intelligence for that purpose, he is simply wasting time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8), simply laboring for nothing.

Haihaya: Here in Italy the majority of people is communism. The majority of young people is communism.

Prabhupāda: What ism you manufacture it doesn't matter. We have to see whether you are understanding the value of life. Our point is that. We don't mind whether you are communist, capitalist, this ist, that ist, that... We want to see whether you are utilizing your human intelligence for right purpose. We don't condemn anyone. If the communists, they are also making the same plan as the capitalist, then what is the use of this communism? The same thing. It may be useful for the temporary purpose, for the rascals, but it is the same quality.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No, as I say, the active principle, I am also the active principle. As I say, the dead body and the living body, difference is, when the active principle is not there, it is dead body. Similarly, I am also the active principle. So 'ham, so 'ham: "I am the same active principle." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this material body." That is self-realization. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: (BG 18.54) "When one is self-realized, then he is jolly." Prasannātmā. He is never morose. He is jolly. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He has no lamentation, no hankering." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "He is equal to everyone, man, animal and everything." And mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: (BG 18.54) "Then devotional life begins." So without self-realization, there is no question of devotional life. Or those who are engaged in devotional service, they are all... Just like these boys, my students, they are trained up how to be always in devotional service. So one who is engaged in devotional service, he is supposed to be already self-realized. Because he has understood "what I am," yes. And then he sticks to devotional service. Otherwise, he cannot. If one thinks, "I am this body," then he cannot be engaged in devotional service, or he cannot stick. He knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." This is self-realization. And then he engages himself in devotional service.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Why not experience? He knows that "I am that active principle." Everyone knows that "I am not this body." When I say, "This is my finger," I don't say, "I finger." So "I," what "I"? That realization, self-realization, that "I am part and parcel of God." So that he knows, that "I am part and parcel of God. So therefore my duty is to serve God." So they are engaged in serving God. So this serving God, or devotional service, is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... Find out that verse, that:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

So unless one is self-realized, he cannot be engaged in the service of the supreme self. Ordinarily, a master and a servant, a servant knows that "I am engaged by the master. He is giving me food. He is giving me shelter. He is giving me everything for his service." So he is careful in his service. This is a material example. Similarly, self-realization is ultimately, as I taught you, that, first impersonal Brahman, then localized Paramātmā, and then the yogis, they realize the localized Paramātmā. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, they observe the Supersoul within himself, and they meditate upon Him.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: They are educated too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization. That active principle is soul, and the soul is migrating from one body to another as you are migrating from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So the soul is the same. The body is different. The body is material and the soul is spiritual. When one comes to this understanding, that is self-realization.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And I was one of the two officers who were not wounded in my regiment. And there I met death again and again. And I saw people just killed next to me. Suddenly it was out. It was just only as you say, the body without soul. But I realized also in myself, that when death was near and you had accepted death, accepted to die, then you realized something which has nothing to do whatsoever with death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is self-realization.

Professor Durckheim: So this marked me very much. It's the very beginning of my inner way, these four years of World War.

Prabhupāda: There is a verse. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). If one is God realized soul, he is not afraid of anything. Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. So actually, if one is self-realized, he is no more fearful or concerned with the bodily necessities of life. That is liberation. Just like as you mentioned sleeping. Sleeping also, a bodily necessity. When you are tired, you sleep. That is bodily necessity. But it is not spiritually necessary. About the Gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau: ** "Conquered over sleeping, eating, mating." That is also one of the symptoms of self-realization. These things are necessities of the body. So the more one is advanced in self-realization, these things will be minimized: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. And gradually it will come to nil because this is bodily necessities.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: The progress of self-realization is a sequence of experiences, isn't it, of inner experiences?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: The progress of self-realization is a progress of inner experiences.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: And I do believe that at the actual moment still, the treasure in the European peoples, the different peoples, who went through the war, through concentration camps, through battlefields and bombing nights, are hidden in their hearts certain moments when death was near and they were wounded and nearly torn in pieces. Because they had a certain experience they survived. And again and again, when I give a lecture, I have two or three people, waiting, telling me, "Now you just reminded me an experience long ago, ten days ago, two months ago, when I thought I was a little bit crazy, and now I understand it has been the experience, perhaps the most important of my life, on which I should have built my future inner way." And these experiences are still there. And once people understand, they don't need a war and a battleship and a concentration camp and a bombing night to take serious certain inner experiences when they are suddenly are touched by this divine reality, and they suddenly feel that this bodily existence is not lasting at all.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That we can experience every night.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: When we dream, my body is left on the bed and I go somewhere. That we experience, that I am separate from this body. At that time I forget my, this body is lying down on the bed. I am acting in a different atmosphere. So and again, in daytime, I forget that at night I was in a different body, and I went to such and such place or on the sky I was flying. I forget. At night I forget this body and at daytime I forget that body. But I am existing. Therefore I am not this body. I am existing in this body and that body, but that body I have forgotten, and this body I forget. So this is a structure on my mind only. Actually I am different from the mind. And that is self-realization. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ (BG 3.42). Find out this verse. Manasas tu parā buddhir buddhes tu yaḥ saḥ. That's it. It is in the Third Chapter, I think.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So our real business is how to become free from all these designations. Yes. Then we come to the real consciousness. That real consciousness is that "I am eternal. God is eternal. I am part and parcel of God. My duty is to serve God. And now I am serving also. I am not free from service, but I am serving under designation." Just like you went to fight, because you designated yourself that "I am German." This is an example, that "I must fight, give service to my country." Somebody is thinking, "Give service to my community" or "to my family." Or if there is nobody else, at least "to my dog." So this is going on. So we have to close all these designations and become pure and serve God. And that is self-realization.

sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ

tat-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

(CC Madhya 19.170)

Just like the Arjuna. Arjuna was put into the ba... You have read Bhagavad-gītā, I think, this Bhagavad-gītā?

Professor Durckheim: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So he was thinking in terms of designations, that "I am... I belong to the same family. The other side, they are my cousin-brothers. They belong to the same family. So why shall I fight? Let them enjoy." From material point of view it is very good man. But Kṛṣṇa condemned him. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān: (BG 2.11) "You are talking very high words, but you are fool number one." That is the first, because he was talking on the platform of this bodily concept of life. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "I am not this body; I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. My duty is to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa," then he fought. Superficially, he remained the same soldier. But in the beginning he was a soldier for his designation of this body, and later on, he became a soldier to carry out the order of the Supreme. That is the difference. So when we act to carry out the orders of the Supreme, that is self-realization, not for this body.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: There is only one way toward peace, through self-realization of those who are responsible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Self-realization, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should understand that "I am not enjoyer. Nobody is enjoyer." That is false. They are trying, endeavor, for enjoying this world, and that is false. Real enjoyer is the Supreme Lord. We are trying to occupy this land, that land. "This is Germany. This is England. This is France. This is India. This is my land, worshipable. Land is worshipable. It is my land." But he should know that no land belongs to us. Everything belongs to God. And this is a fact. The land is not created by us. The ocean is not created by us. Then why should we claim, "This is German ocean, and this is English ocean"? This is all false imagination. So when it comes to this understanding, that "Nothing belongs to us..." The United Nations, they are fighting for the last twenty years, but they are fighting on the false ground because everyone is thinking, "This land is mine. I must protect it." So they have no self-realization, and there is no peace.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: As soon two, two men who are realized, there is no war. There is a very wonderful story. When the Emperor of Japan took over the leadership again after having been for six hundred years only the High Priest. Now he wanted to be again the emperor. And he was submitting one dainu (?) after the other one. Only one resisted in Tokyo. General of Tokyo did not submit to the emperor and didn't allow anybody to come in to negotiate. So the emperor was very troubled. He said, "Should I burn down Tokyo? I wouldn't like to do it." And then his young sword (?) master asked him—he was a realized man—"Do you permit me to just ride in this town and see the great general?" And he said, "Yes, you know the guards do not permit." "Let me do." He sat on horseback and just rode through. The guards, like this, let him pass. He announced himself to the great general. General said, "Yes, with him I am going to talk." And the general himself, being a self-realized man said, "Well, all right." In twenty minutes things were in order, and they submitted gently, and without a single shot, peace was established. Because two men of a high level of self-realization met.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Material nature is the mother. Material nature gives the body. But the soul is part and parcel of God. A soul is given, impregnated in the material nature, and they come out in so many species of life. How easily it is explained. So self-realization we explain that samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, equality to all living entities. But because they have no spiritual knowledge, they think that humanitarian work means to give all facility to the human being and not to the animals. We are talking of nationalism. National means anyone who has taken birth in that land. That is the definition of nationalism. But they are taking care of the human being who has taken birth in that land, but poor animals, they are being slaughtered. This is their nationalism. So all, everything is going wrong account of wrong conception of life. And that wrong conception of life is that "I am this body." But when we understand that "I am not this body; I am the active principle within this body," then this misconception will go out. That is the beginning of spiritual realization, or self-realization.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And this understanding has to be an experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is experienced, but on account of his foolishness he is thinking otherwise. He knows that "I am not this body. I am now in this body of old man, but I was not in this body, say, fifty years ago. Therefore I am not this body, that body or this body. I am different from the body." This is very easy experience. I am existing. I understand that I existed in a baby's body. I existed in a child's body, boy's body. So I have now changed so many bodies. Therefore I am not this body. Just like you dress. You are now in black coat, and next moment you can be in other color. But you are not this coat. You have changed the coat. Similarly, I have changed the body, but I am not this body. This is self-realization. First of all let me know that "I am not this body; I am living within this body." You are not this coat. If I ask you, "Mr. Blackcoat," that is my foolishness. You are neither black coat or white coat. And that is self-realization.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

German devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these gentlemen are professors from the Theological Philosophical University. And this is Doctor Zara (?). He is the leader for the society of yoga and integral philosophical studies in Germany.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very fortunate to see so many big men at a time. So we were also talking to this doctor about this philosophy, how human civilization should be conducted. I was explaining to Professor that at the present moment, not at the present moment, always in this material world, we do not know what is the goal of life. We have got different philosophies, different mode of life, because we do not know what is the goal of life. If the goal of life is... (break) ...then everything is solved. Now it is very good fortune that you are all present. What is the goal of life? That is my submission. Human life is there, human intelligence is there. So what is the goal of life to achieve? The goal of life cannot be different. That is one. That is, we take from Vedic literature, this goal of life is to understand what is God. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). (aside:) That is one. You serve it out. So we are missing the point, that we do not know what is the goal of life. Different persons, different philosophers, they have got different proposition of the goal of life. Similarly, different politician also. But we think the goal of life is one, to understand God. Then everything is solved. Self-realization. (pause) And we are writing all these books. These books will be finished in eighty volumes. And already we have published fourteen volumes only. And small books also, many, about two dozen. But our only writing is the goal of life, Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Dr. P. J. Saher: Like iron in fire.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's right. (German) (break) ...Vedic injunction:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

(CC Adi 17.21)

For your perfection you simply chant the name of the Lord harer nāma, harer. Harer means of the Lord and nāma means name. Thrice. Just like we give stress three times, "You do it. You do it. You do it." This is a good stress. Similarly, the śāstra says harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma, nāma eva kevalam, simply chant the Lord's name. Kalau, in this age of Kali. Nāsty eva, nāsty eva, nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other alternative for self-realization, no other alternative for self-realization, therefore stress should be given for everyone to chant the holy name of the Lord. (German) Kali means the age of quarrel, the age of quarrel. This age is simply for fighting and quarrel. They're not interested to understand the Absolute Truth. But they're interested in fighting and quarreling. Therefore this age called Kali. Kali means fighting.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Actual program, the actual program is there. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: He's speaking of the gradual process of self-realization. First of all...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vedavyāsa: We are speaking of the gradual process of self-realization, first adopting these brahminical qualities and going further and further. So he asks if he's missing, if it's not possible to become illuminated at once by God's grace, to become converted without undergoing these...

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will do. Yes, you haven't got to undergo this or that. Simply chant and it will..., you'll become perfect. So easiest. But still they will not accept. That is the difficulty. When you give the easiest way they won't accept. Easiest way is we are recommending the chant the holy name of God. Do it. (German) Not that you chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. You have got your name of God, you chant that. Begin that. (German) (break) Then how can I help you? There is (indistinct). You do not know. So our recommendation is, not my recommendation, from the Vedic literature, authoritative recommendation and the Bhagavad-gītā, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Everything is there. You begin. Therefore I said in this age so many things is impossible to be done. But you begin chanting the holy name of God. Where is the difficulty?

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But I know, all educated and advanced educated Englishmen, they were coming to Australia for good job. Therefore most of the technical posts, they are occupied by Indians in London. As soon as one is highly qualified medical man, he comes to Australia. So who will take care of them? So therefore they imported some brain from India. Anyway, our time should be saved for self-realization. That is perfect civilization. And not for creating unnecessary necessity of life. That will increase problem. So scientists, they disagreed or agreed with us?

Madhudviṣa: They did not want to get... They did not want to...

Prabhupāda: But they could not answer "Who is the manufacturer of the brain of the scientist?" That they could not.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything is there; simply we have to learn how to utilize it. Our Acyutānanda Swami has written that introduction, he's realizing (indistinct). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the life of realization, self-realization, what I am. As Sanātana Gosvāmī presented himself (indistinct), "What I am?" (break)

But if you remain diseased, then just like I have got this disease, no appetite. First-class things are being made—nothing is giving me any taste. Disease is there. Therefore, if you want to taste what is God, then you first of all try to cure your disease.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Hṛdayānanda: Can someone achieve self-realization without a guru or does he need a guru?

Prabhupāda: How do you think like that? Is there anything within this you world which can be learned without guru? Even if you become an ordinary carpenter, you have to learn from an expert carpenter. So how you can imagine to learn the topmost subject matter without guru? This is... The Vedic injunction is, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), samit-pāṇiḥ, like that. We must have a bona fide guru to train us in the understanding of spiritual matter. Guru means who knows the thing, who can teach you. That is guru, not a humbug guru, but guru means one who knows. Tattva-darśinaḥ, one who has seen the truth, he can become guru.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor: Occupier.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a house. There are two persons, one is the tenant and the other is the landlord. The proprietor is the landlord, and the tenant is occupier. Actually that is self-realization, that I must know that "I am occupier of this body but I am not proprietor." The proprietor is God.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that all religions agree that man can be perfected although he may not be perfect now...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of religion. We are talking of philosophy and science. When we talk about these things that the occupier of the body is within the body, it is neither any Christian knowledge nor Hindu knowledge nor... It is fact. It is a science. The science cannot be "I believe or you believe or you..." That is not science. Science is science. I have already said. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable everywhere. Similarly, this is knowledge, that the proprietor, or the occupier of the body, is within the body. You can study from any angle of vision. The fact is there.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidyā, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature's way—the sun is rising from the eastern side—that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern, Western?" Eastern sun, Western sun." Sun is always Eastern, never Western. How one can say, "Western sun?" (break) Just see.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest: May I ask a question, please? Master, perhaps... It seems to me we have sort of misunderstood. These people is trying to inquire whether or not a sort of a mantram I would say invented here in the western hemisphere or a so-called master is or is not good for realization of the self. But I am thinking more in terms of the question, it is perhaps more suitable to make the question a question, not affirmation. "Who am I?" perhaps, is the best of the mantrams instead of affirming, "I am," because we cannot realize who I am.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you are basing your knowledge, "Perhaps." Therefore you are imperfect. "Perhaps." That means you are imperfect. Your statement will not be accepted. Because you are imperfect, you say, "Perhaps, maybe." So this is not knowledge. This is not knowledge. This is ignorance. As soon as you say, "Perhaps, maybe," that means you do not know what is, the actual thing is. Knowledge must be perfect. There is no question of "Perhaps, it may be." No, that is not knowledge. That is speculation. That is speculation. That is not knowledge. Because you are sitting, "Perhaps," therefore your knowledge cannot be accepted.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization..."

Prabhupāda: Nature, viṣṇu-māyā, nature. They are bewildered simply by seeing the nature.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: Just by distributing your books we can become self-realized.

Prabhupāda: You are already self-realized. Otherwise how you can push on the books? You love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are taking so much labor for pushing on. And that is self-realization. If anyone tries to establish that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, that is self-realization.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Ātmā...?

Young man: (Sanskrit). Self-realization and selfless service to humanity. So that's our principles. That's the objective of Ananda-mārga philosophy. So that's a subjective approach to objective adjustment, both, side by side.

Prabhupāda: What is that ānanda?

Young man: Ānanda means bliss, infinite happiness.

Prabhupāda: Infinite. But what is the platform of that ānanda, material or spiritual?

Young man: Of course, ānanda means very much spiritual aspect.

Prabhupāda: But if somebody wants to derive ānanda by sense pleasure, is that spiritual?

Young man: Our practices has...

Prabhupāda: Tantra means they want to derive pleasure through the senses. So is that spiritual?

Young man: Our gurudeva says that not only do we do vidyā-tantra but both the Tantric practices avidyā and vidyā has to be practiced. So one has to go beyond...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is spiritual.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee: Well, what actually is responsibility?

Prabhupāda: No, no. The dog also allows the nipple to be sucked by the cubs. That is family maintenance. So what credit do you get by family maintenance? Why do you specially claim any benefit by maintain...? That is being done by the cats and dogs. Do you think that the animals do not take care of their children? Then if you take, then what is the difference between him and yourself? You are also the cats and dogs. Your main business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you forget that—you remain cats and dogs—then you'll become again cats and dogs. Punar muṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." The mouse was given the chance to elevate gradually to a tiger, and when he became tiger, he wanted to devour the saintly person. And he said, "All right, again you become mouse." That is also... You are given the chance of self-realization. If you do not do it, then again become cats and dogs, maintain your family.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Śrī Īśopaniṣad it is said that one must learn the process of nescience alongside with the process of self-realization.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gaṇeśa: In the Īśopaniṣad, pravṛtti with nivṛtti. How is that?

Prabhupāda: What is that pravṛtti and nivṛtti?

Amogha: He says that in the Īśopaniṣad it says that you should learn the process of self-realization side by side with the process of nescience.

Prabhupāda: Nescience, yes. That is pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means sense enjoyment. And nivṛtti means self-negation. So when we say that "You shall not have illicit sex," and their inclination is illicit sex, so therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex enjoyment to the best capacity-homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance, all sexually inclined, pravṛtti. And we say, "Stop this," nivṛtti. They do not like it because āsura. Pravṛtti jagat. They do not know this is essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex. This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because the psychologists, they are like the gurus nowadays. Rather than reading philosophy books or religion books, everyone is reading psychology books like this I'm OK, You're OK. It was a big best seller. So now Dr. Gerson, he wants to inject in this psychology field... Anyone who is thinking, "Who am I?" He is reading psychology books. This is supposed to be the science of self-realization today. So they're actually more influential than philosophers.

Prabhupāda: Have they advanced about "Who am I?"

Dr. Gerson: So I would like to inject into this system Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is very good. If the scientists, philosophers, they take up seriously then it will be good for the general mass of people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). You are recognized leaders, so if you help them to accept, that will be great service.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yoga-kṣemam. Yes, that's all right, yoga-kṣemam. Read.

Upendra: Translation: But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.

Purport: One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all auspicious and full of spiritual potencies; indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord, such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life.

Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Therefore it's very important that all the devotees study your books so they become learned.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād (SB 1.7.6). This is the learning only, to keep them saved from this illusory material energy. (break) ...means knowledge, and this Bhāgavatam is the essence cream of Vedas. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ (SB 1.1.3). Nigama means Vedas, and this is the galitaṁ phalaṁ, ripened fruit of the tree.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one professor... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...drags the home. (break) ...living?

Jayatīrtha: No. Maybe he is. I think in, he was in Switzerland or some place. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...make research about God. Somebody told me?

Brahmānanda: Yeah. Dr. Werner von Braun. That has been his conclusion now, at the end of his career. He is interested in meditation and self-realization. (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: So the soul is the conscious worker of the body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A little mistake will cause disaster. Therefore education means to protect him from committing mistake. This is education. And if you keep him in the darkness, what is the value of education? (aside:) Get that switch on. Education means enlightenment. One should know "What I am? I am this body or something else other than the body?" This is education. That is self-realization. "Oh, I am not this body; I am soul. And I am simply working for the body? What I am doing for me? I say, 'It is my body,' so I am working for my, and what for the 'I?' " Where is that education? If you simply take care of "my" and don't take care of "I," is that education? That taking care of "my" is done by the dog, and taking care of "I" is done by the human being. That is the difference. The dog, as soon as he sees another foreign dog in that neighborhood, he begins barking, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" So we are doing the same business in the immigration department: "Why you have come? Have you got visa?" This is civilization, but the dog's business. "Gow! Gow!" In Paris I went without visa, and they detained me for four hours. Well, a human being has come here. Why the immigration law so strict? But that is advancement of civilization.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Dangerous means if one is not completely educated of self-realization he has the risk of degradation.

Prof. Hopkins: He has what?

Prabhupāda: The risk of degradation. Now I have got human form of body, I may degrade to animal. Because transmigration of the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara prāptir, after death one gets another body. Now, what kind of body, that depends on his work. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If he has done very nicely, in goodness, then he will be promoted to the higher planetary system. And if he has not done anything nice then he will remain here or he will be degraded to the lower planetary system.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: ...consider nim sacred. (break) ...psychology. (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...singing and dancing are great stimulants to self-realization. And he says but he doesn't know why, but he said that perhaps if we study the glands more carefully, we will find out why singing and dancing stimulates identity. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...parvato muākam aprasavat: "Himalaya will give birth children." So many people gathered, "Must be very gigantic." But they saw only rats are coming. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...is from this school, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Yadubara?

Bahulāśva: Right here, Yadubara.

Brahmānanda: Poor Yadubara. (laughter)

Yadubara: I am one of the rats. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...also? No.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Again chance.

Bahulāśva: This has become a very popular subject, psychology. About 80% of the students take a class in this. And they took a survey, and the reason most students take this class is to find out more about who they are themself. So it is the closest thing in the west to self-realization.

Jayatīrtha: They've found out that "I am no better than the animal"? That's the conclusion?

Dharmādhyakṣa: One school. Then there's another school. They say, "How can you base a theory of human nature on animals?" They do not like this. They are revolting against making man an animal.

Bahulāśva: Bhagavad-gītā gives the best psychology.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Jayatīrtha: The hippies see that their fathers have not become happy by their riches.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got some reason, certainly. So they refuse to adopt the way of life of their father or grandfather. So they must have some reason. But on the total we can see that these three classes of men—one in great prosperity, one via-media, and one in want... These three classes of men there are, everywhere, all over the world. Rather...

Guest: Sir, are you familiar with Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship and the practice of recruiting wealthy people as patrons for people who are sincerely interested in following a spiritual pursuit?

Prabhupāda: Hm, what is...?

Rāmeśvara: He asked if you were, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you were familiar with another yoga society founded by one swami called Yogananda. He called it the Self-Realization Fellowship. And they have a practice to recruit wealthy men as their members. He simply asked if you knew of that.

Guest: Do you think that this hinders with their development?

Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Guest: Do you think that this hinders with their development?

Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

If Yogananda thinks like that—"Only rich man is able to practice yoga"—that is wrong. A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme. And the Supreme can be connected by anyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). According to Vedic philosophy, one becomes poor on account of his sinful activities. So pāpa-yoni... So although he has taken birth in a degraded family or poor family, spiritually he is pure. Simply one has to revive his spiritual consciousness. And that cannot be checked by any material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual self-realization cannot be checked by any material condition. So why? Rather, opulent condition is not favorable for practicing yoga. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot practice yoga.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Guest: The reason why I asked was because other spiritual masters such as Jesus and the Buddha have required first that people give all of their possession to the poor rather than give them to a community fund such as the Self-Realization Fellowship, the Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, or any other...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right, because after all... Why to the poor? We say... I do not know whether Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, said, but generally people are inclined to give to the poor. That, suppose you have got some money. I go: "Sir, give us some contribution for spending for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He will not like very much. And if I go, ask some money, that "I am going to open some hospital for the poor suffering humanity," he will give immediately. Is it not the general tendency? If I say a moneyed man, "Please give me some money. I will spend it for Kṛṣṇa," he will not give. (chuckles) But if I approach him that "I am going to open a charitable institution for the poor," he will give me. So these Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha has said like that just to try to this, make this man dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay for Kṛṣṇa; he will be inclined for the poor. The real purpose is to make him dispossess.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But that you do not know, how to do good to the people. Just like a diseased man. The doctor has ordered that he should starve. But if you go in the hospital and you take sympathy with the starving patient, "Oh, you are starving for the last three days," if you give to him some food without the permission of the physician, then you will be punished. So he may think that "Oh, here is a starving man. I must give him some food." But you are liable to be punished. So first of all learn how to do good to others. So that is described here. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). To bring him to the knowledge of self-realization, that is good. If you can distribute knowledge to bring him back to his consciousness, original consciousness, that is real welfare activity. Otherwise, if you manufacture something that "This man is starving: let me give him some food," it may be wrongly done, and you are liable to be punished. So first of all, you must learn what is actually good to the human society. Then, if we do that, that is good. In ignorance, if we do it, then we may be liable to be punished. Besides that, your thought is imperfect. Just like you try to give food to some living being, but other living being you send to the slaughterhouse. You do not consider. You put your philosophy, that "The animal has no soul. They are like dead matter," but that is not the fact. The animals also have got soul, and the human being, he has got also soul. The ant has got also soul. Everyone has got. Every living being has got soul. Why you are inclined to do good to the human society? What is the reason? Why not to the animals?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Satsvarūpa: "Humility, pridelessness, nonviolence, tolerance, simplicity, approaching a bona fide spiritual master, cleanliness, steadiness and self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification, absence of false ego, the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; nonattachment to children, wife, home and the rest, and evenmindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me, resorting to solitary places, detachment from the general mass of people, accepting the importance of self-realization, and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth—all these I thus declare to be knowledge,..."

Prabhupāda: This is knowledge, path of knowledge.

Satsvarūpa: "... and what is contrary to these is ignorance."

Prabhupāda: That's it. There are eighteen or twenty items of knowledge. The human society is not interested with those eighteen items, and they are simply interested in so-called economic development, technology, mental speculation. That is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They do not know what is knowledge. Just like the first item is... What is that? Amānitvam.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: So it's a long...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Soul creates a body to fulfill...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Soul creates in this sense: by his karma he has to accept, accept a certain type of body. But originally he doesn't require this material world. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. And that is self-realization.

Dr. Patel: The production of the body in the cosmos is the līlā of...

Prabhupāda: No līlā. It is compulsory.

Dr. Patel: Why compulsory?

Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is beaten with shoes, that is not his līlā. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are so many kalākendras but no kendra for understanding ātmā. Huh? Apasyatam ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). In Bhāgavata it is said, apasyatam. They do not know what is ātma-tattvam, these rascals. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhīnam. Apasyatam ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). These rascals, they do not know ātma-tattva, the science of self-realization. Bahir-artha-maninaḥ. They have been simply external. They are giving importance to the music, but the person who is playing the music, he has no information. He is thinking this tongue is vibrating music, such a rascal. If the tongue is vibrating music, then why—he is dead—why the tongue does not play music anymore? And the ear is there. Why he does not hear any more music? If this body is all, then the body is there, the tongue is there, the ear is there—why there is no response of the music? Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. And these rascals, they do not know who is the person who is singing and who is hearing. Therefore they have been called as mūḍhas. Who is singing, who is hearing, he does not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛhamedhīnam.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: So devotee really means one who has love for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), zero, all other, that "I am this, I am that, I am jñānī, I am yogi, I am karmī, I am minister, I am king"—all these are thinking like that, they're all nonsense. "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa"—that is greatness. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is self-realization, ātma-tattvam.

Dayānanda: So because that person is very rare, then, I guess, the only way we can possibly know how to become like that is to find one pure devotee and exactly follow that way of Kṛṣṇa consciousness that he has.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dayānanda: I mean to say that because a pure devotee is so rare, the only way must be to find out a pure devotee and exactly follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you try to find out... (end)

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't have to learn the activities of our spiritual body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are revived. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that now you have got this human form of body, you get up to your original position. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta varan nibodhata. This is the Vedic injunction. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo gauracanda bole kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. How long you'll sleep? Here is the opportunity. Try to understand yourself. That is self-realization. And go back to home, back to Godhead. Why you are struggling here? Kṛṣṇa is coming. He is also saying the same, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why you are rotting in this material world? So for spiritual awakening there are so many attempts by God Himself, by His devotees, by books, so many ways. But we are not inclined. That is our fault.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah. And these things are available without any endeavor, as we get distressed condition of life without any endeavor. There are two things in this world: distress and happiness. So we don't call for distress, that "Malaria fever comes to me. I shall enjoy." Nobody says, but it comes. So similarly, this is distress. If distress comes by the superior arrangement, so happiness also will come by superior arrangement. So why should we bother about these things? Now tasyaiva hetoḥ praya... Therefore our endeavor should be for understanding ourself, self-realization, and our relationship with God or what is God, what is the nature. These things, athāto brahma jijñāsā, this is our business, not to waste our valuable time for searching after sense gratification. It is not human civilization, and that is..., that is demonic civilization. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja, stressing. Sukham aindriyakaṁ yad... Read it?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Next one?

Prabhupāda: No, no, this verse.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So dehāntara-prāptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha:

tat-prayāso na kartavyo

yata āyur-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

mukunda-caraṇāmbujam

"Endeavors merely for sense gratification or material happiness through economic development are not to be performed, for they result only in a loss of time and energy, with no actual profit. If one's endeavors are directed toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can surely attain the spiritual platform of self-realization. There is no such benefit from engaging oneself in economic development."

Prabhupāda: Yes, now just see how people are being misguided. Throughout the whole world, the education is for economic development. And here it is condemned that one should not waste his time for so-called economic development. Now our preaching is here, and who will accept it? They'll call us all crazy fellows. We are thinking they are crazy, they're wasting time for economic development, and they are thinking of us, that "These people are crazy, they are doing nothing, escaping." Escaping, do they not say like that?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And then you wrote that one day the people will..., the taxes will become so great that the people will revolt, refuse to pay, and then the government will be finished. There will be chaos. You're giving all these warnings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've also warned them about taking the oil from the earth.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Did you not say that we have got something; the pleasure derived from all these things, that is very inferior. We have got pleasure of superior quality. Therefore we have been able to give it up. That is the fact. But you have no information of the superior pleasure. Therefore sticking to this inferior pleasure.

Mādhavānanda: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, when Dakṣa cursed Lord Śiva, he also said that statement that the materialists are always envious of the self-realized souls for their opulence of self-realization.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...nature is the mother. So is that correct or not?

Mādhavānanda: Yes, yes. Mother nature.

Prabhupāda: So mother is there and children are there; so why there is no father? They say there is no God. How it is possible? The mother is there and children are there. How it is that there is no father? What is the answer? They say there is no God, or no father?

Mādhavānanda: They say that there may be God, but no one has even seen Him.

Prabhupāda: You might not have seen your father; does it mean there is no father?

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇa, etad avidyāt yaḥ prayāti sa eva kṛpaṇaḥ. Read.

Jayādvaita: " 'He is a miserly man who does not solve the problems of life as a human and who thus quits this world like the cats and dogs, without understanding the science of self-realization.' This human form of life is a most valuable asset for the living entity, who can utilize it for solving the problems of life; therefore, one who does not utilize this opportunity properly is a miser. On the other hand, there is the brāhmaṇa..."

Prabhupāda: They do not know even what are the problems of life. People are so uneducated, they do not know even what are the problems of life. They do not know. What generally people think the problems of life?

Hari-śauri: How to get more money, how to get more sense gratification. That's the main problem.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Your America has got so much money. Has it solved all the problems? Our Ambarīṣa Mahārāja will answer.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): In the Seventh Canto, second volume, the first chapter in that volume, Prahlāda Mahārāja is talking how the studying of the three Vedas is external and it includes knowledge though, of education and self-realization, but he considers it material because it is external study of the Vedas. I don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: Anything external is material.

Devotee (1): Self-realization is included in that list of education and self-realization and other items.

Prabhupāda: Yes, self-realization, simply understanding "I am not this matter," is also external because there is chance of falldown. But when you are actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is positive platform of self-realization.

Devotee (2): Just like the brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahmeti.

Prabhupāda: Different stages of self-realization. (pause) Today there is no wind at all.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now suppose these electric lights. So, crude form of light, we grow some castor seed, everything from the earth. This also you are getting from earth, petroleum, and running on machine, and electricity is generated. But really you are getting the impetus from the earth. As soon as the petroleum supply is stopped, everything stopped. But for this purpose you have to search out petroleum from the middle of ocean, boring. Therefore it is ugra-karma. The purpose is that you grow some castor seed, press it, get oil, put in any pot, and one wick, the light is there. So even understanding that you have improved the lighting system, but that is not the only necessity of my life. But to improve from the castor seed lamp, castor oil lamp, to this electricity, you have to work so hard. You have to go to the middle of ocean and drill it and get out petroleum and... In this way your real business of life is finished. The energy and the intelligence you got for your self-realization or your, this precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various species of life, this is your problem, and this was to be solved in human life, you have got advanced intelligence, but that intelligence is utilized from castor seed lamp to the electric lamp. That's all. Just try to understand. What is that improvement? And for this improving from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real business.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to...

Prabhupāda: No, you require lamp. So you finish that lamping business as simply as possible. In the balance time you save you improve your self-realization. That is the life. Just like this child, he wants to play. He does not go to school, does not take an education, and he improves type of toys, toys, he's engaged in improved type of football playing, and... Then is that very good intelligence?

Kīrtanānanda: But nobody works longer hours than the farmer.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: No one works harder than the farmer. The farmer has to work very hard.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is that if you think that electricity improvement is better than farming, we have no objection. But if you forget your real business, is that intelligent?

Kīrtanānanda: No, of course not.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand. In a high-court a judge is sitting soberly, doing nothing, and he is getting the highest salary. And another man in the same court, he's working day and hard rubber-stamping and he is getting not even one tenth of the salary. He's thinking, "I am so busy and working so hard. I am not getting any good salary. And this man is sitting only on the bench and he's getting so fat salary." So therefore this is question like that. The Vedic civilization is for self-realization. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). Kovido means very learned. He'll simply try for that thing which was not received, which was not achieved in other life. That means self-realization. Just like we are sometimes charged, "escape." What is the charge?

Devotee: We are escaping from reality.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is the question. (devotees laugh) but their reality is dog's race, and our reality is to advance in self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is difference. Therefore karmīs have been described as mūḍha, asses. Asses. And asses, why the example is given to the asses? Because the ass works very hard. It loads on the back tons of cloth of the washerman, and the washerman in return gives him little morsel of grass, and he stands at the door of the washerman, eats the grass, again loading. But he has no sense that "If I go out of these clutches of washerman I can get grass anywhere. Why I am loading so much?" The karmīs are like that. They're busy in the office, very busy. If you want to see him, "I am very busy now." (laughter) So what is your result of busy? "Now, I take two pieces of toast and one cup of tea. That's all." (laughter) And for this purpose you are so busy? He does not know why he's busy. Because in the books he's finding, "Now, the balance was one thousand million dollars, now it has become two thousand," that his satisfaction. But he will eat two pieces of bread and one cup of tea. When it was one million dollars, when it was two million dollars. But still he'll work hard.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The accusation is not correct. They are not lazy. They are busy for higher subject matter. And that busy-ness is so important that Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Beginning from the childhood," kaumāra ācaret prājño (SB 7.6.1). Not lose a second time. So that is Vedic civilization. But these asses, they do not see that "These men are working like us, like dogs and asses. So they are escaping." Yes, escaping your fruitless endeavor. So the Vedic civilization was meant for self-realization. Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama system. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). How to realize Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore the system is varṇāśrama. In another place it is said, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer (SB 1.5.17). The varṇāśrama means there is division: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. But the ultimate goal is viṣṇur ārādhyate. The Supreme Lord should be worshiped. That is the idea. So if Viṣṇu ārādhana is available immediately, then you can give up all other occupational duty as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra, as a brahmacārī, everything. Take to it, immediately, to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is so important.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is explained. They do not know what is progress. The Vedic civilization is not interested in this so-called false progress. Just like from hut to skyscraper. They think this is progress. But the Vedic civilization thinks how much he is advanced in self-realization. Either he is in cottage or in skyscraper. But if he wastes his time to turn the huts into skyscrapers, then the whole life is finished. And next time he is going to be a dog. He does not know. That's all.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

tat-prayāso na kartavyo

yata āyur-vyayaḥ param

na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ

mukunda-caraṇāmbujam

Translation: "Endeavors merely for sense gratification or material happiness through economic development are not to be performed, for they result only in a loss of time and energy, with no actual profit. If one's endeavors are directed towards Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can surely attain the spiritual platform of self-realization. There is no such benefit from engaging oneself in economic development."

Prabhupāda: This is our philosophy, and the whole world is engaged in economic development. So which is better? (laughs) Here it is said tat-prayāso na kartavyo. We see, especially in the Western country, they are very busy for economic development, and unless one is engaged... I think that Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they questioned that in India, people being fatalist...

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You'll get from Second Canto.

Rūpānuga: Second Canto. That's that "First Step in Self-Realization" chapter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fifth chapter, sixth chapter, two chapters.

Prabhupāda: Atra sargo visargaś ca, that verse, Second Canto, you find out.

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Is matter generated within a given body, like the body of a human being? While it's living, is matter generated and annihilated within that body during the time of life?

Prabhupāda: Body is matter. Whole body is combination of matter.

Sadāpūta: Right. But does the living entity within or the Supersoul...

Prabhupāda: Yes, within.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly. So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society. And those who cannot be grouped either of these three classes, they should generally help as workers. They are called śūdras. So the workers means... Suppose you require a sitting place: the carpenter is there. Suppose you require a knife: so the blacksmith is there. You require clothing: the weaver is there. In this way, four classes of men. First class, second class, third class, or the intellectuals, the administrators, the producers and the general workers. This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions. Generally, the brahmacārī, student life; gṛhastha, married life; vānaprastha, retired life; and sannyāsa, renounced life. So at the end of life one should be renounced from all other responsibilities and completely devote his life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. In this way, when a person dies in God consciousness, his life is perfect. This is Vedic civilization. Eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama. And if you simply produce śūdras, working class, then you cannot have any happiness. That is not possible. And nowadays democratic, if you send some śūdras to act as kṣatriyas, they cannot do it. You have got practical experience. In Vietnam, what happened?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga. Yoga means how to control the senses. Then I can concentrate my mind towards God realization and self-realization. If my senses are always disturbing, it is not possible to apply my mind for self-realization. That is not possible. Therefore the yoga practice, preliminary practice, is yama-niyama, controlling, niyama, under regulative principles. They are all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literature also. And the ultimate end of yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). By meditation, he always thinks... This morning I was walking near the (indistinct) falls, I told, "This is the best place for practicing yoga." Yoga cannot be practiced in a fashionable way in a big city with (indistinct) meditation. That is not possible.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.

Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

aterial activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers. So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket. But in one case we say "criminal," and one case we say "friend." The business is the same. Svajanākhya-dasyu. Actually thieves and rogues, but we have named them "relatives."

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But we do not deprecate. We simply say that do whatever you like, but do not forget your real business, self-realization, ātma-tattvam. Self-realization, that is required. And if we live like cats and dogs and again become cats and dogs and pigs, that is not success. But there is chance if one does not know ātma-tattva. Nature's law will work. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Hare Kṛṣṇa. So, your son is sleeping?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, this is not my son.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is salt, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is watermelon, this is a different kind of melon. You prefer it here?

Prabhupāda: This is local product?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda:

śruti vipratipannā te

yadā sthāsyati niścalā

samādhāv acalā buddhis

tadā yogam avāpsyasi

"When your mind is no longer disturbed by the flowery language of the Vedas, and when it remains fixed in the trance of self-realization, then you will have attained the divine consciousness."

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, the first beginning of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā you have to take. (aside:) No children. Otherwise it will be disturbed. When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being, according to Vedic śāstra anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He's animal. So practically now in this age especially, everyone is identifying with this body. That is the basic principle of nationalism, communism, or this "ism" or that "ism." The bodily conception of life.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is spirit soul, what is its identification, what is God, what is our relationship with Him, how to work on that plan. Then we become happy. Otherwise you may make various plan on material basis, it will never be successful and there is no question of happiness. Because the basic principle is lost. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). This was spoken by Śukadeva Gosvāmī to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, that śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ (SB 2.1.2). The subject matter of hearing, there are many thousands for persons who has no self-realization.

śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ

gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām

(SB 2.1.2)

Those who are not searching after self-realization, they have got many subject matter for hearing and deliberate. That means material subject matter. We have in the newspaper different subject matters for different public interest, but those who are searching after spiritual realization, athāto brahma jijñāsā. As it is stated in the Vedānta-sūtra, also in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Human life means tattva-jijñāsā, inquiry about the Absolute Truth. That is now stopped. People are not interested, self-realization, tattva-jijñāsā.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is the first education. Otherwise it is animal. Animal does not require absolute education. Animal is not able to understand what is self, what is God. But a man can. Therefore the man's first business is to understand this self-realization.

Interviewer (3): Do you think it will come to India via the West now?

Prabhupāda: I don't follow.

Interviewer (3): Will it come to India via the West?

Prabhupāda: India is already there. You are neglecting. Why don't you admit that you are neglecting?

Interviewer (3): Will that neglect go, disappear, through the West?

Prabhupāda: How will that? If you don't like it, how it will go?

Interviewer (4): No, no, my colleague's point is, we have not been accepting, we are not able to understand Bhagavad-gītā on our own. Just because first Western people understand, and because of their...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have neglected. My charge is that you have neglected. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India. Bhagavad-gītā is there. I think every home has got a Bhagavad-gītā, but if you do not study it, you neglect it, that is your fault.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of spiritual lesson. Because that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone of us, we are identifying with this body. Just like if somebody asks what you are, "I am Mr. such and such, I am Indian, I am this, I am that." He is giving identification of the body. But that he is not. He's not this body. That is self-realization. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)—two things—deha, this body, and asmin dehe, there is dehinaḥ, the owner of the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Because generally almost 99.9% people, they are thinking that I am this body.

Indian man: Well, that is true, that is...

Prabhupāda: So that is another thing.

Indian man: That attachment to the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That attachment or no attachment, he is different from the body. That is the first lesson of spiritual education, that one has to understand that he is not the body. That is Brahman realization.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tanum āśritam. This concept of Indian, European is there because you are a mūḍha. Just directly charge him. Directly. That "You are a mūḍha, you are a rascal," immediately. Let him speak. And send it to the newspaper that this letter we have sent challenging this rascal, let him reply. If he does not reply, silent, that means he's accepts he's a rascal.

Hari-śauri: Yes, because Blitz has taken up to advertise that he's God, so now they should accept challenge.

Pradyumna: He said self-realization is God-realization.

Prabhupāda: But you are not self-realized. You are madman, rascal. How you can be self-realized? A madman cannot be self-realized.

Hari-śauri: Yes. And if he was Kṛṣṇa before, how is it he's disagreeing with what the Bhagavad-gītā says?

Prabhupāda: You are not Kṛṣṇa. Because if you were Kṛṣṇa, then how you can be a rascal? Kṛṣṇa is not a rascal. (end)

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is the proposal of all great personalities born in India, ācāryas like.... Recent.... Formerly, there were big, big ācāryas like Vyāsadeva and others. Devala. Many, many ācāryas. And the recent, within, say, one thousand five hundred years there are, there were many ācāryas like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and within five hundred years Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They have also given us many literatures about this spiritual knowledge. But at the present moment this spiritual knowledge is neglected. So it is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message to the whole world that every one of you, you become guru, a spiritual master. So how everyone can become a spiritual master? To become a spiritual master is not easy job. One must be very learned scholar and must have full realization of the self and everything. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us a little formula, that if you strictly follow the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and if you preach the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, then you become guru. The exact words used in Bengali, it is said, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). To become guru is very difficult job, but if you simply carry the message of Bhagavad-gītā and try to convince anyone you meet, then you become a guru.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is... We are doing that. They are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money, and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.

Hari-śauri: Well, any form of education is indoctrination.

Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is...

Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up: "I shall play all day." He likes to play but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."

Hari-śauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country, he's indoctrinated.

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Devotee (3): "A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness certainly sees Lord Kṛṣṇa everywhere, and he sees everything in Kṛṣṇa. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material nature, but in each and every instance he is conscious of Kṛṣṇa, knowing that everything is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Nothing can exist without Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the Lord of everything—this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the development of love of Kṛṣṇa—a position transcendental even to material liberation. It is the stage beyond self-realization at which the devotee becomes one with Kṛṣṇa in the sense that Kṛṣṇa becomes everything for the devotee, and the devotee becomes full in loving Kṛṣṇa. An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. In that stage, the living entity attains his immortality. Nor is the Personality of Godhead ever out of the sight of the devotee. To merge in Kṛṣṇa is spiritual annihilation. A devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38)."

Prabhupāda: Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. He sees every moment.

Devotee (3): "Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam..."

Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: ...self-realization. Various methods, as many people are there, so many techniques are there. Each individual has to find out his own way.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that is scientific proposal?

Indian man: They say.

Prabhupāda: I say they are (indistinct). Just like you go to educational institution, is there any knowledge that is to be realized according to the whims of the students?

Indian man: Not the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Self-realization, what it is?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that is knowledge. Self-realization.

Indian man: This is, one part is true knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No, not, suppose self-realization, what I am, is it not?

Indian man: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: So what I am, then you have to study in this way, whether you are this body or you are something else. Is it not? So that is in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā explained, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Find out this verse. This is self-realization. Bhagavad-gītā begins with self-realization, what I am. Am I this body or I am something other than this body? That is self-realization. So that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man: Yes, he has spoken on Bhagavad-gītā also.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, this self-realization, as you said, that "There are as many ways as there are students," that is not scientific.

Indian man: That what he says.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That is wrong. Not maybe. Then let us try to understand. It is not the question of maybe. Self-realization must be. That is self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ (SB 2.1.2). (aside:) You come to this side, that's all right. Those who are not self-realized, they have got many questions and many answers. And those who are, one who is self-realized, he has only one question and one answer. One question, that what I am. There is no self-realization, one question, what I am. And now what I am, do you think there is, a student, he is inquiring, what I am, and whatever he thinks, that is his answer? If the student is ignorant... Therefore there are many students and many questions about self-realization. Do you think that there are many answers?

Indian man: Answer will be one.

Prabhupāda: This is self-realization. The answer is one, that "I am not this body." This is self-realization. You cannot say that because there are many students, so there are many answers.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: So He answers because Arjuna was disturbed on this battlefield, that "How shall I fight with my relatives. I shall kill them. It is not my duty to kill my brothers or my nephews." He was perplexed. So the answer is given in a suitable way, that "You are thinking of killing the body of your brother. But your brother is not the body. And even if you think that your brother is being killed, so your brother, real, your brother, he will get another body." Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This is the answer. This is self-realization. That "You are very much disturbed on the bodily concepts of life, but your brother is not this body. Even if you so-called killing of your brother, he will live." That is further explained.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That the any person, any living entity, he is not this body. That is the answer. So then two things. Suppose you are, I am, that I am thinking of this body, and at the same time I am thinking that this finger, I say, "My finger." Nobody says, "I finger." "My finger." Even a child he will say. So "My finger, my head, my legs." So what is that "my"? That is the question. The answer is negatively that that "I" or "my" is not this body. That is different from the body. Now what is the nature of that "I"? That is explained one after another, one after another, one, one. Because he has no idea. Every one of us... I am speaking, you are speaking. Theoretically we take, accept it that I am not this body. But practically I say, "I am this body." That is wrong. That has to be explained. And that is being explained. The question is one and the answer is one. There cannot be many questions or many answers. Answer is one. That answer is, Kṛṣṇa begins, that "As the body is changing, within our experience..." dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Very nice example. We are changing bodies. When you were born, there was no beard. Clean shaved or no hair. So that body has changed. It is not the same body. In which body you came out of the womb of your mother, that was a small body. That was a different body. This example given there. This body is changing during your experience of life. Similarly, after death the body will change, but you will continue. This is self-realization. It is not very difficult. The example is there. It doesn't take much time. The answer is one, and it is realized, say, within some minutes. So Bhagavad-gītā begins from self-realization, that "I am not this body." That is actual position, that if I understand that I am not this body, factually, then what I am, that I am something beyond this body. That is explained in so many different ways. So the center is this, that I am not this body. The answer is one. But I cannot answer, the master will not answer according to the whims of the student. Then he is not master. Because answer is one.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: Then the question is, this is not the complete answer, that I am not the body. That is not...

Prabhupāda: Hm. Self-realization that, that you are seeking what I am. Am I this body or something else? That is your inquiry. And the answer is that, "No, you are not this body."

Indian man: But questions remain the same.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not... Then it is explained, how you are not this body. In the beginning He explains, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Just like you see the body has changed every daily, per minute, the body is changing, imperceptively. But try to understand that you were a child, now your body has changed in a different body. But you understand, you remember, that "I was a child." But the child body is no longer. So you remember or not remember, the body is changing. This is the answer. This is self-realization.

Indian man: I am the constant change, the process?

Prabhupāda: You are not changing.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is sufficient.

Indian man: Quite satisfying, I am not body.

Prabhupāda: That is self-realization.

Indian man: There is something when a person dies, something minus, this body remains useless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you are not this body.

Indian man: Yes, that means I am not the body, I am something beyond body. And what is that beyond body?

Prabhupāda: That is explained in so many chapters.

Indian man: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is explained, I am... That is... Kṛṣṇa says that the all these living entities... (break) ...that you are the same as God.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (Hindi) But they are kept in darkness. This civilization is like that.

Hari-śauri:

yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ

tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī

yasyāṁ jāgrati bhūtāni

sā niśā paśyato muneḥ

"What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled, and the time of awakening for all beings is night for the introspective sage." Purport? "There are two classes of intelligent men. The one is intelligent in material activities for sense gratification and the other is introspective and awake for the cultivation of self-realization. Activities of the introspective sage or thoughtful man are night for persons materially absorbed. Materialistic persons remain asleep in such a night due to their ignorance of self-realization. The introspective sage remains alert in the 'night' of the materialistic men. The sage feels transcendental pleasure in the gradual advancement of spiritual culture, whereas the man in materialistic activities, being asleep to self-realization, dreams of varieties of sense pleasure, feeling sometimes happy and sometimes distressed in his sleeping condition. The introspective man is always indifferent to materialistic happiness and distress. He goes on with his self-realization activities undisturbed by material reaction."

Mr. Asnani: Prabhupāda, in this stanza, I have not followed a little. That stanza which he just read it. Now, a spiritual-bent-of-mind person, he sleeps in the daytime.

Prabhupāda: Materialist person...

Mr. Asnani: He sleeps in the nighttime, and there's trouble in his thoughts. Whereas a spiritual man, he's awoke in the nighttime and sleep in the daytime.

Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand what is sleeping and awakening. This is the real understanding. The materialistic man, he's sleeping about self-realization. He has no information.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Information. But the spiritualistic man, he's awakened in that, that this life is meant for self-realization. So the materialistic man, he does not know. He's kept in darkness of night, and the spiritualistic man is awakened. That is the difference.

Mr. Asnani: Why the night...?

Prabhupāda: Night means ignorance, when one sleeps. Yes. And day is awakening. So what is day for the materialistic person, so that is night for the spiritualistic person. And what is day for the spiritualistic person, that is night for the... Just like a spiritualist person, he has sacrificed everything and he is after God, and they are thinking, "These rascals, unnecessarily, empty stomach, wasting, 'Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,' chant." They are deriding. And he is thinking that "This rascal got this human form of body. Instead of spiritual culture, he's spoiling his life, cats and dogs." That means in the subject matter where the spiritualists were not interested, he is interested. And in the subject matter, the spiritual person, interested, he is not interested. This is day and night.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Temporary, yes. So I am eternal. I must associate with eternity. Why shall I..., temporary. Suppose if somebody comes in India, American, that is his temporary residence. Why shall I accept India as everything? Similarly this body is another India or for Indian, American. It is temporary, asann, asat. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary. That you have no knowledge. Why shall I be attached to the temporary things? I am the owner of the body, I am reality, so I must realize myself. Self-realization. This is self-realization, that "I am not this body, I am pure soul, Brahman." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Dr. Patel: Even Jesus said so.

Prabhupāda: Christ said that if getting everything one loses his own soul... What is that?

Trivikrama: "What is the value?"

Prabhupāda: "What is the value?"

Rāmeśvara: They would say that we are ignoring this world and retreating from it.

Prabhupāda: We must! We must! You rascal! You do not know the science.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: "Although celestial beings are not visible to the naked eyes of the inhabitants of this earth, it was due to the influence of Mahārāja Parīkṣit that the demigods also agreed to be visible. The kings used to spend lavishly during such sacrifices as the cloud distributes rains. A cloud is nothing but another form of water, or, in other words, the waters of the earth transform into clouds. Similarly, the charity made by the kings in such sacrifices are but another form of the taxes collected from the citizens. But as the rains fall down very lavishly and appear to be more than necessary, the charity made by such kings also seems to be more than what the citizen needs. Satisfied citizens will never organize agitation against the king, and thus there was no need of changing the monarchial state. Even for a king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was needed a spiritual master for guidance. Without such guidance one cannot make progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master must be bona fide, and one who wants to have self-realization must approach and take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master to achieve real success.

(text 4)

nijagrāhaujasā vīraḥ

kaliṁ digvijaye kvacit

nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdraṁ

ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā

(translation) "Once when Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on his way to conquer the world, he saw the master of Kali-yuga, who was lower than a śūdra, disguised as a king and hurting the legs of a cow and bull. The King at once caught hold of him to deal sufficient punishment." (purport) "The purpose of a king's going out to conquer the world is not for self-aggrandizement. Mahārāja Parīkṣit went out to conquer the world after his ascendance on the throne, but this was not for the purpose of aggression on other states. He was the emperor of the world, and all small states were under his regime. His purpose in going out was to see how things were going on in terms of the godly state. The king, being the representative of the Lord, has to execute the will of the Lord duly. There is no question of self-aggrandizement. Thus as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw that a lower-class man in the dress of a king was hurting the legs of a cow and bull..." (break) Prabhupāda: ...there the injunction of the śāstra, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. Cow should be protected. Kṛṣṇa said, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say chāgala-rakṣya or hog-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. So it is the duty of the king or the state or the government to give protection to the cows. This is śāstric injunction. But nowadays neither the state or government is giving protection to the cow. They are becoming implicated with so many problems. I heard that India again is now slaughtering cows.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Translation: "Those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form, to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have." Purport. "One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all-auspicious and full of spiritual potency. Indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life."

Prabhupāda: Why not do this business, guaranteed by Kṛṣṇa?

Bali-mardana: By your grace it is all possible. By your grace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) You do this.

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are many, many experts from the lower-grade creatures. Ant hill. You are spending so much money for skyscraper building. The ant, they construct big hill as their residential quarters. Where they get their food? Where they get their...? But they are living. This is nature's study. Now you can... So what is this? Āhāra-nidrā. For eating. So for these four principles—eating, sleeping, sex, and defense—everyone knows. But the human society, they have made it a problem. These small ants, they also require those things, but they have no problem. For defense they don't require atomic weapon. They know in their own way how to defend. Cats, dogs, animals—everyone knows. Struggling. Our human society, advanced, means they are perplexed with these problems. The human life was meant for self-realization. That problem left, they have created some problems which the animals can solve in their own way. This is the present society. This political struggle and..., what is their aim, objective? To solve these problems. Nothing more. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4), indriya-prītaye, these four principles, sense gratification. The ant is also struggling. They wanted to enjoy the little sugar in the here. We have driven him. That's a problem. They have to find out somewhere else.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body..." Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "After this body is finished, another body...," because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed."

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman.