Dr. Gerson: In this country psychology and psychiatry has become almost like a priesthood, and people look to them for answers. And if one of the people that they take in that way, me, can give them another answer, then perhaps they'll start to turn in another direction, to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Because the psychologists, they are like the gurus nowadays. Rather than reading philosophy books or religion books, everyone is reading psychology books like this I'm OK, You're OK. It was a big best seller. So now Dr. Gerson, he wants to inject in this psychology field... Anyone who is thinking, "Who am I?" He is reading psychology books. This is supposed to be the science of self-realization today. So they're actually more influential than philosophers.
Prabhupāda: Have they advanced about "Who am I?"
Dr. Gerson: So I would like to inject into this system Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is very good. If the scientists, philosophers, they take up seriously then it will be good for the general mass of people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). You are recognized leaders, so if you help them to accept, that will be great service.
Jayatīrtha: Many of them admit that they are very confused, isn't it?
Dr. Gerson: Oh, yes, yes. If you put ten psychologists in a room and ask them for their opinion, you'll get ten opinions on the same subject.
Bahulāśva: Like munis. So many minds, so many ways.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "If a muni, thoughtful man, hasn't got a different opinion then he is not muni." (laughter) And that is going on. They take it as advancement. There is no standard knowledge. You speak something, and if somebody refutes it with something else, then he is advanced. And then another comes, he becomes more advanced than the second one. And then another comes. So there is no standard knowledge. What is today standard knowledge, tomorrow it is obsolete. Another standard knowledge. So in that way nobody knows what is the standard knowledge. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But we don't follow that process. We follow one standard knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is our distinction between the ordinary scholars and our... And we are on the safe side because we don't manufacture, speculate. That is troublesome. If I have to defeat you, then I will have to speak so many things. I will have to find out the device how can I defeat you. But we have got one standard knowledge. I may be fool, rascal, but we repeat Kṛṣṇa. So our method is very easy. We are challenging everyone. Just like there are many scientific disciples. So I am not a science man. I have never studied science. But scientists, they are becoming my disciple. From material point of view, I have no education in science, but why the scientist is becoming my disciple? Is he becoming fool? After taking his doctorate title, he is becoming fool so that he is accepting me as spiritual master? Therefore the Vedic injunction is correct when it says, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. "If you know Kṛṣṇa perfectly well, then you know everything well." That is the Vedic injunction. So unless you know Kṛṣṇa well, your knowledge is imperfect. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So there are different departmental knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. All departmental knowledge, when they come to the understanding of Kṛṣṇa, then it is perfect. So long he does not come to Kṛṣṇa, he is imperfect. That is confirmed in another place:
- bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
- jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
- vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
- sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
- (BG 7.19)
Philosophy, science, means research, is it not? Research work? What do you think? Any scienti...
Jayatīrtha: Philosophy means research work.
Dr. Gerson: Yes, absolutely, yes.
Prabhupāda: Research. So by searching, searching, searching, if you do not come to Kṛṣṇa, then your searching is incomplete. That is the defect. And when you come to Kṛṣṇa understanding, then it is perfect. Then your research work is complete. That is... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Research work means... Actually, that is science, to find out the original source. Just like they are claiming, "The original source of life is chemical." That is not knowledge, imperfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge is as Kṛṣṇa says. What is that? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the origin of everything." So when they come to Kṛṣṇa, then he finds out the original source. So that is possible by this research worker after many, many births, not many, many years, but many, many births. And bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, "one who is actually advanced in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me." Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), that "Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything." Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such research scholar, mahātmā, is very rare." And then He describes in the next verse that what is the symptom of these mahātmās, perfect soul. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "They are no more under the control of this material nature, they are fully under the control of spiritual nature." So what is the symptom that he is under spiritual nature, not...? Bhajanty ananya-manaso: "He is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa." Bhajanti, "engaged in service." Bhajanty ananya-manaso: "He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the symptom of a mahātmā. The Bhagavad-gītā does not say, "One who has got political business, he is mahātmā," no. Mahātmā means bhajanty ananya-manaso: "Without any diversion, simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business. That is mahātmā." So everything is there.