School (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"school" |"schoolboy" |"schoolboys" |"schoolchildren" |"schooled" |"schoolhouse" |"schooling" |"schoolmarm" |"schoolmaster" |"schoolmasters" |"schoolmates" |"schoolmistress" |"schools" |"schoolteacher" |"schoolteachers"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...with this land also? No. (break) ...this building?

Mahāmṣa: I think it is a school, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) He does not know. He does not say that "certainly school." "It may be."

Harikeśa: Well, if I'm convinced it's a school, it's a school. I mean, the only thing that really matters is my perception of that thing.

Prabhupāda: You learn from him that it is school. Before that, you did not know. Therefore you have to learn. That experience is valuable, when you learn it.

Harikeśa: Yes, but the only thing that makes it a school...

Prabhupāda: You cannot imagine by seeing a building that it is a school. You cannot imagine that. That is foolishness.

Harikeśa: But all the people inside, they are also imagining that it's a school.

Prabhupāda: So that is all...

Acyutānanda: Just like if there is a pen. If I use it to kill someone, it is a weapon. If I use it to mix something, it is an instrument. If I use it to write with, then it's a pen. So it is not a pen. It is not a weapon. It is my idea that I impose on the object that makes it what it is.

Prabhupāda: No. No. Your idea, that is foolishness. But you learn from a teacher that this is pen; this is not a weapon. You have to learn it. If you don't learn it, then you will go on making experiment whether it is pen or it is weapon or it is this or that. Go on. But it will never come to any conclusion.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Salvation Army, oh.

Mahāmṣa: This is also school.

Harikeśa: Actually we're the only Salvation Army.

Acyutānanda: (break) ...the authority of a authority. We're accepting his authority, but his experience comes from his direct perception, which comes back to...

Prabhupāda: We don't take such authorities, who takes experience from others. We take authority who is...

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Experienced.

Prabhupāda: Automatically. (sic:) Parāsya bhaktir vividhaiva śruyate svabhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Svabhāva..., you can.... Just like if you ask me how to do something, if I say, "Yes, you do like this," svabhāvikī. I have got by nature knowledge how to do it perfectly. That is going on. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Kṛṣṇa is dictating that "You do like this." So, you see, everything is coming perfect. From the nim seed a nim tree will come. It is so nicely made by Kṛṣṇa-bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10)—that it will come nim tree, not mango tree. The chemicals are so combined. You do not know what is there, a small seed, baṭa vṛkṣa. And a huge banyan tree will come out, not other tree. That is knowledge.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Acyutānanda: He could not get a bed in the hospital because it was full of guṇḍās. Hospitals were all full of guṇḍās.

Yaśodānandana: In America they have the highest quality of hospitals and schools and everything, but yet the young people are turning to be hippies. You have mentioned that in the introduction to your Nectar of Devotion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. What is the use of such education?

Indian man: So your education which you gave may be something like..., not like that.

Prabhupāda: Education means to do the right thing, not the wrong thing. That is education. Education means enlightenment, to know what is right, what is wrong. That is education.

Harikeśa: It's 7:15 Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: On the street there is sign board, "Keep to the left," or "Keep to the right." This is education. This is education. One must know how to run the car which side. Education means enlightenment. If you foolishly do something, immediately you become criminal. So education means to enlighten them to know what is right, what is wrong. That is education. But people do not know that. What is the meaning of education? (break)

Mahāmṣa: Actually, in all the schools the young people are learning all the bad habits from the schools. Instead of getting to learn how to do right things, they are learning to do all wrong things because of association with people from low families.

Vasughosa: And they even have sex education in school. They are teaching people how to be rogues.

Prabhupāda: Our education is first of all to become brahmacārī, and the modern education is how to become vyabhicārī, this rascal education. And for this purpose there are big, big universities, vice chancellor, and so on, so on.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Gradually they are becoming animals, or they are already animals.

Mahāmṣa: The principal of my school, he used to be a priest, and he used to give us these classes whereby he would tell the students that one must experience sex life before marriage. He was propagating illicit sex life in school, and being a principal and from a priestly class of person, so degraded. (break)

Yaśodānandana: ...called Ahobilam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also went there. And the paṇḍitas there, they have reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa.... (break) ...was killed by Lord Nṛsiṁha. There is the room, the palace and everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) Chipped rice?

Mahāmṣa: No, that was sugar.

Prabhupāda: Sugar? Salt.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) There was one teacher in my school, he used to say that "One who is slow to understand, he is slow to forget also."

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's a fact. It's really a fact.

Prabhupāda: And one who understands quickly and he forgets quickly. So Dr. Patel has understood slowly. So he'll never forget it.

Dr. Patel: But I...

Indian man: Actually that is a fact.

Dr. Patel: I have been very critical within myself. All my.... All my studies, medical, otherwise, I have been always...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, critical...

Dr. Patel: I have studied even geology.

Prabhupāda: Critical student, that is...

Dr. Patel: Out of just fun, what it is about. I am a student all round.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). Paripraśna is required, but after praṇipāta.

Dr. Patel: Surrendering yourself. In school also they say if you develop a sort of a liking for your teacher, a sort of a reverence is developed in you, and then you get knowledge much quicker.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: If you take your teacher to be a servant of yours, then you won't...

Prabhupāda: That is Vedic principle. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Then he'll get knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: That is why guru brahma gurur viṣṇur guruḥ sākṣād maheśvaraḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is fact. Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, guru-kṛṣṇa-krpā: "By the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa."

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Gāthā?

Dr. Patel: Gāthā. They have got a.... These Zoroastins read Gāthā just like Bhagavad-gītā. I have read it. I could understand very easily because it's Sanskrit dialect language. One professor has come from United States. He is staying here in a school of Parsis, and I am the doctor of that school. He said that this is completely Vedic religion. He has studied the Vedic philosophy also. He is teaching theology in some university of United States. He stays here in this.... (break) ...worse than, I think, most...

Prabhupāda: But it is democracy. Because we are sinful, we have made a sinful government. It is democracy. Formerly the personal monarchy.... There is no monarchy. It is democracy.

Dr. Patel: It is demon-cracy.

Prabhupāda: Demoncracy, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Without touching them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is... Of course, we'll do this also. What about, like, all of these people coming? This is my point, that so many poor people are coming here. Practically they don't even have enough money to take care of their children properly. So whether we can make some verbal announcements and whether we can set up a little table at the prasādam pavilion that "Anyone who would like to enroll their sons in our school can do so"? Because many of these people can't take care of their children properly. I'm thinking when they see our boys they may want to give their sons.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that a good program?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can get many... I think we could get many, many men that way.

Prabhupāda: The children, they are enjoying. In the morning they are... That is wanted.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) My wife was never beautiful to my sight, so I wanted to marry again, and my father advised, "Don't do it. She is your friend, that you don't like her." (laughs) Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still, Prabhupāda, you said that your school work was a little impeded...

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, that is natural. In young time, when there is young girl... That is also said, yauvane kukkarī sundarī. When woman is in full youth, even she is like dog, she is beautiful. (laughs) Yauvane kukkarī sundarī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who said that? Whose statement was that?

Prabhupāda: No, that was also... I do not know, but this is going on. (laughter) Yauvane kukkarī sundarī. It is by nature's arrangement the woman is given one chance at the time of youthfulness. Otherwise how she will be given protection by a man? They require protection. If somebody is not attracted, then how she gets protection? This is natural.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But that was meant for prostitute. If the woman has sīmanta here, then you should understand. Then you can freely talk with. She is advertising, "Yes, I am prostitute. You can talk with me." Without that signboard no man is gentleman if he wants to talk with another woman. He can talk only with that woman. Neither you can talk with widow. That girl, our (sic:) Śivaśakti's mother? She is dressing herself as widow. That is very nice. Very nice. That simple dress will not attract men.

Bhavānanda: In America, Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes when I preached in the schools I used that example, that how by looking at a woman's part of her hair you can tell what she is. And so many of the girls in the class, they had their hair parted on the side. So I said a woman who has her hair parted on the side is a prostitute. They all laughed.

Prabhupāda: "And what is the wrong to become prostitute?" They accept it, "All right, we are prostitute."

Bhavānanda: Right. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Now there is no distinction between prostitute and chaste.

Jayapatākā: That was published in the Bombay Illustrated Weekly, that the prostitutes are having difficulty because women are so freely available that no one is coming to pay for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the position.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Harikeśa: You were saying in Vṛndāvana they tweak each other's ear.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Churchill was tweaking the ear of Hitler, and Hitler was tweaking... Like in school the two children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Jayapatākā: Yesterday you mentioned to the secretary that the members of legislature should all be Vaiṣṇavas. They should all be brahminically qual...

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa-vaiṣṇava.

Jayapatākā: Brāhmaṇa-vaiṣṇava. Then they could give true advice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this nonsense asses and pigs and dogs and cats? What they will do?

Jayapatākā: One goal we could have is that they would pass a law that no one could be a member of a legislature who didn't follow the four regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Who will do that? That can be possible if you spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very widely and they become convinced that "We shall not vote anyone to these rascals. We must have a Vaiṣṇava." Then everything will be changed. That is the only opportunity, that if people become Vaiṣṇava and they decide that "We are not going to vote anyone who is not a Vaiṣṇava," then everything will be all right.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They should have taken away that building which was constructed, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and placed him there as separate temple. You see? That red... That was constructed by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean that school building?

Bhavānanda: No, no, in the back.

Prabhupāda: Just on the side of the temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Old building.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they wanted to show some respect they should have installed him there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just next to the temple. Your guru mahārāja did not build because there was something already in Svarūpa Gañja.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām, ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam. Therefore you must follow the regulative principles. As soon as you become a rascal—"Now I have become advanced. I don't require to chant sixteen rounds. I can do whatever I like"—then he has gone to hell. Upstart, immediately he becomes paramahaṁsa. He's a rascal. He was given the path of becoming paramahaṁsa. One is admitted in the school, he must learn, and one day he will become M.A. But simply by entering in the school, if he says, "I am M.A.," that is rascaldom. This is a chance.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So if this is the practice in a country which is so opulent, just imagine what is there in India.

Pañcadraviḍa: I had experience, because when I was younger I was stealing, and I was taking to the hock shop one typewriter, and while I was taking to the hock shop this typewriter, the police came and showed me his badge and took this typewriter and one French horn from... He took the money, and he said, "I am going to check to see if this is stolen." So one week later I was worried. I called him. I said, "What is happening?" He said, "That typewriter was reported one year ago stolen from the school." But he said, "Because I think you're a good boy, I'm not going to arrest, you because I don't think you did it. If I thought for a moment you did it, I would immediately come and take you." So I said, "That's all right. What about the French horn? When can I have my money back?" He said, "You just forget about this. You leave it to me."

Prabhupāda: To keep you honest. (laughter) To keep you honest, you just don't hope your money.

Guru-krpa: Their practice is that they watch our saṅkīrtana devotees collect all day, and they know when he has good pocketful of money. Then they arrest him...

Prabhupāda: In Germany they have done this.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Ghanaśyāma: At this school, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they ordered two orders. They were so favorable, for their Theology Department Library and also for the main library, because there were so many professors like this one who were favorable, they wanted your books to be very easily accessible.

Devotee (1): This is the largest professor in Sanskrit in the whole United States, from Harvard University.

Satsvarūpa: Most distinguished of all men.

Ghanaśyāma: He never writes reviews for anyone, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but he wrote for you. He just refuses. He hides himself, you know.

Prabhupāda: What? Tell me. What does he say?

Satsvarūpa: "I can recommend Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta as a source of rich insights for every serious student of consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Ghanaśyāma: And he's a psychologist. Usually psychologists, they're very much sort of against spiritual life. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this one here, this is one of the biggest linguistic schools in the world, and this gentleman was the chairman of the department, so he's known all over the world for his studies in different kinds of languages.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What does he say?

Satsvarūpa: "It is axiomatic that no book can be expected entirely to satisfy all its potential readers.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Madhudviṣa: Anybody who comes, they will see how authorized your books are.

Rāmeśvara: That's our idea, that we can mass produce these, and any temple can order the quotes from any school of their choice.

Rādhāvallabha: We can make an announcement to temple presidents...

Rāmeśvara: Every temple can have a room for receiving guests with all the prominent quotes on the wall. (sound of approaching kīrtana party)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All they have to do is hear the party. (?)

Devotee (3): Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Come on.

Devotee (3): Jaya.

Guru-krpa: This boy leads kīrtana for two or three hours nonstop by himself, playing the drum.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So parikrāma party has not come back?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And that is the philosophy of the Western countries.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: Actually there is.... There is two factions in the Chinese schools now. One is saying to.... They're both materialistically based, but one is trying to stay on a position of self-sufficiency economically and not take from other countries or even trade, and the other school is to industrialize. And they're always fighting with their...

Prabhupāda: Oh, there are two schools?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: And the school who is more for self-sufficiency in agriculture, they also have brought out the.... In the last eight years or so they've brought to the surface more spiritual ideas.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So there is a section who'll support.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So we have to capture them.

Siddha-svarūpa: They are more of a mystic yogi sort of school, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is also yoga, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is yoga.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Actually that's Mao's...

Siddha-svarūpa: If their main leader, Mao Tse Tung.... He's more of that school, but there are.... They call them revisionists. They say they're like the Russians, and that they're just.... They're always attacking them for wanting to copy the West. It's their same attack. They attack the Russians for becoming capitalists. They're puritan. They're trying to have pure communism. They have very great ideals, and the other school wants.... They think that they want to get in on the action of the trade and industrialization. But they are actually about equal in power. It's interesting. Right now, actually, it's very hard to get into China because there's a new feud that has come to the surface. There's top leaders that have been taken through the streets, denounced as being materialists, and they've taken their clothes from their wives' closets with mink coats and fancy clothes...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all.... We shall first of all try to sell our books without any discussion. "As trade..., as trade representative, we have come. See our book." Go to the professors, go to the.... "We have got this support," like that.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Like Satsvarūpa's men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...they accept our books, that means gradually they are accepting our philosophy. Not immediately talk about philosophy. Just ordinary bookseller, you have come. (laughter)

Madhudviṣa: Trojan horse.

Siddha-svarūpa: In their schools right now, their colleges, is a center of controversy, education. The one school of thought who are called revisionists—they are compared to the Russians—they say that the schools should be centered almost entirely upon economic development and technology, and that philosophy, Communist philosophy, different.... In other words, different debates or thinking more, philosophically inclined people are rejected, so that now there is a fight between whether or not the schools will be centered simply for economic development or whether they're going to be centers of what they call revolutionary activities, thinking, trying to improve their Communist understanding and Communist ideology and more philosophically inclined. So those who are pushing for greater economic development at the expense of their Communist purity or their philosophical understanding, they are now being attacked.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Vedic explanation is that moon is not going round the earthly planet. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is very revolutionary thought.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because children all over the world in schools, they're taught simply that the moon is going around the earth. They shouldn't question it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they say, "You should not question"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, should not question it. It's taken as fact.

Prabhupāda: My point is: if the moon is going round the earth, beginning from here to there, similarly, the sun is also going around earth, because we see the similar way, it is rising and going that way. So how you can say one is fixed, one is standing? The process, we find the same. How you can say that this is fixed and this is going around? Why is...? If the process is the same, then the result will be the same.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But why the rascal is called to the school? He may learn at home.

Devotee (2): Well, they want to condition them...

Prabhupāda: What?

Devotee (2): ...with various values.

Prabhupāda: What is the value? If you are calling him to take education from the school, that means he is accepting authority. Let him be educated at home. Why the college?

Devotee: But in the classrooms, they simply...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, first of all, the principle? What is this principle?

Rāmeśvara: To train him in the methods of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means authority. You are teaching him to accept the authority. And you are teaching against authority. Everything contradictory. One side, contraceptive; one side, illicit sex. And the.... But Vedic civilization says, "All right, as soon as woman is widow, let her remain as a saintly woman—no more sex." But "No, you can marry and you can have sex hundred times daily, but use contraceptive." Is that civilization? To train one woman not to have any more sex, this is also contraceptive. And another way that "You can have sex any amount, as many times as you like.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And advertise publicly: "Topless, bottomless women are available here. Come here. School is open at ten o'clock at night. It goes on up to four." I have seen it. This is civilization, nightclub and topless, bottomless shop.

Rāmeśvara: The women argue, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they can be given.... If they are given a good chance, they can make equal contribution in business, in science. So they are demanding equal rights, equal employment.

Prabhupāda: So why.... Why not equal rights that you stop producing children like the man? The man does not produce. Why you are obliged to produce?

Rāmeśvara: That is their special qualification.

Prabhupāda: That is.... Similarly, everything is special. You are a different entity. You must have different engagements. That is your perfection.

Talk at Radha-Govinda Mandir -- March 24, 1976, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: In those days who cared for the father? We were coming and.... It was not so congested. There was a riot, Hindu-Muslim riot. This quarter is Muslim quarter. Oh, in 1911 that was a dangerous day. Perhaps I would have been killed. Riot. Very big riot. This was my school, here, this building. This was my school. And college was Scottish Churches. In this ground we used to play football. Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa. You used to take Jagannātha right through the streets?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How far would you carry Jagannātha?

Prabhupāda: From our house to this Thakurbari, Rādhā-Govinda's house, coming and going with procession of children and khola, karatāla and everything. Prasādam distribution, everything was there. My father used to encourage. And in those days if my father would spend twenty-five rupees, it was a great festival. Why not? In those days, fifty, sixty years ago, the money value was at least twenty times. So if my father was spending at that time twenty rupees, now it is at least four hundred rupees. So for a children's play four hundred rupees is not a small amount.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The attitude, devotion, is there. Otherwise why one should come to our camp? But it must be properly utilized. It should not be misused. If you go to school and if you don't read books, you'll fail in the examination.

Guru dāsa: But the attitude of devotion should be there every moment, so everything...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru dāsa: ...is very meaningful. Everything is a big thing. When we go out we should realize we're doing it for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is said, man-manā. Think of Kṛṣṇa; He'll guide you. Very easy thing. Man-manā. Always think of Kṛṣṇa, then there is no question of falling down. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). These four things, if strictly done, he is safe. He is safe. Always think of Kṛṣṇa, become His devotee, offer Him obeisances and.... Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, and worship Him. This is Deity worship. That will engage in always in thinking, in offering obeisances. And if we strictly follow only these, these four principles, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te: "You are coming back to Me without any doubt." But instead of thinking Kṛṣṇa, we are thinking something else, planning something, misusing independence.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (6): Will you be opening certain schools in India on gurukula pattern?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying, but the difficulty, India, is that they are very, very neglectful.

Reporter (6): Is the government discouraging...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of government or.... The government is people's men. So if you are, we are ourselves fools and rascals, the government will also be a set of fools and rascals. And if you are intelligent, the government will be intelligent, because now it is democracy. You select some man. So don't blame government. You are government. If you are fools the government are fools. If you are intelligent the government is intelligent. It is up to you to change; then everything will be all right.

Reporter (1): Swamiji, excuse me, is there any special significance of keeping this bead hidden from the public?

Prabhupāda: Yes, just to follow Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā says, man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ: "Always think of Me." So we are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (8): Swamiji, do you have certain farms also in America, gośālā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only one, many.

Reporter (8): What else do you have over there besides gurukula schools and things?

Prabhupāda: We produce our own milk. In New Vrindaban we are producing.... You are Nava Bharata Times? You are, any of you, Nava Bharata Times? Is there any representative, Nava...? No. Your representative went to New Vrindaban, and he published in the November 1974, I think.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, '74.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they published one big article, Nava Bharata Time, and the heading was, (Hindi). This was the heading. Actually they gave the photograph of our Deity and activities, everything. You can find out November issue of Nava Bharata in 1974.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Yadubara: Does one have a better chance of reaching to the spiritual platform if he is performing pious activities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chance, not sure. Just like charity is pious activities, but if the charity by chance it is given to a Vaiṣṇava, then it becomes a lift for spiritual. And charity given for opening hospital, it is the same, impious activity. People are inclined to do something pious just like opening a school, opening hospital, and if you go to such person, that "We want to open a temple," they will not give. "Ah, there are many temples." As if there is no school. There are many schools; still, they will open a school and hospital. But if you go for some charity for opening a temple, "Oh, there are so many temples."

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: All rascals.

Dayānanda: There's also a scientific argument against that, that there may have been the life conditions or the conditions conducive to life, so therefore life came, but not that that was produced by chemical combination. Just like they're actually opposing that argument, scientific school that opposes the idea that they actually produced the life itself.

Cyavana: Some of them said the life was already there in the water to begin with.

Prabhupāda: In the water, life there is; in the air, in.... That is another thing. But life is different from the water. That is our proposal. (break) They are attracted by these varieties of material things, and when time comes he's put into death. Everything is moved from his sight, aside, and he accepts a body of a dog. (break) To accept by compulsion a type of body according to his activities, that he does not.... Now, that big, big minister, Pandit Jawaharlal, he spent so much time and energy for creating this. Now, if after death he has become a dog, then where is the benefit? You cannot say that he has not become a dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept another body, and what kind of body one has to accept, who will say? The.... His work, what he has done, that will take.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is.... The brāhmaṇa... This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brāhmaṇa. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brāhmaṇa. There may be some kṣatriyas and vaiśyas only, and śūdras. Brāhmaṇa there is none. So the same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brāhmaṇa. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful, become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It will be an institution for teaching spiritual life. So if he does not take the teaching, then it is not...

Dr. Patel: One thing, you must have a Sanskrit school.

Prabhupāda: That we can have. Sanskrit is already there in the books.

Dr. Patel: And then let them have a factual teaching of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Now every gentleman knows English, so we have explained everything in English. There is no difficulty.

Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. But when you see, I mean, study a thing in English and study original language, you...

Prabhupāda: Original language? Nobody can read Sanskrit nowadays. Even the Sanskrit paṇḍitas, they also cannot read. I have tried it. (break) It does not depend on understanding language.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not construct a big building for gurukula here? The students will be trained up to come here and sporting, having nice bath and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and build up their character. And in Bombay you will get many children, because there are so many rich men. They are not so much concerned to make their children technologist. If they get good education and character, they will give. Technologists they can purchase. Birla, they are not going to be technologist. They purchase technologist. I have seen in many respectable Marwari house. They don't send their children to school. They don't send.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You have got brain, He has got brain, but your the brain is very tiny, little, and his brain very big. That is difference between God and you. So if you understand yourself, sample of God, then you understand the Supreme God. But first of all you do not understand yourself. I am misidentifying, "I am this body." And that is doing.... The cats and dogs, they are doing that. Then where is your human intelligence? Then how you can understand God if you have no human intelligence? These books are meant for the human being. If I give to the dogs that "Read this book; you'll understand God," who cares for it? All these school, college, institution, university, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if we do not take advantage of this human form of life and try to understand ourself and God, then we are simply cats and dogs. That is going on.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: And it's not necessary to live a temple life.

Prabhupāda: No, temple life is a.... Just like if you go to school.... Without school you can be educated. It is not that we..., unless you go to school you can be educated. But if you go to school you get greater facilities. And that is the way. Just like in our country Rabindranath Tagore, he never went to school. You have heard the name of Rabindranath Tagore?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rabindranath Tagore.

Prabhupāda: Tagore.

Devotee (2): He's a famous Indian poet.

Prabhupāda: So never went to school, but Oxford University gave him Ph.D. That does not mean that "I shall also receive Ph.D. like Rabindranath Tagore. I shall not go to school." The general method is: one must go to the school. Exceptional cases, that without going to school one can become Ph.D.... But we should not imitate that, that "Rabindranath Tagore got Ph.D. without going to school. I shall sit down." But the fact is that even without going to school one can get Ph.D. That's a fact. But that is not the method. The method is that you must go to the primary school, then secondary school, then enter college, then take your degree. Then you become M.A. and Ph.D. That is the general process, step by step. And if you take the example of Rabindranath Tagore, that "He did not go to school. Then I shall not go to school," then you may be spoiled also, without going to school. That is the, generally the case.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Anartha. (break) ...they stop here. No more this material necessities. But he does not know that he cannot live without necessities. That they do not know. They simply beget these false necessities. Just like disease. I do not want disease, but that does not mean I do not want health. (everyone laughs) So these rascals, they are thinking that "We do not want anymore this material world, brahma satyaṁ jagat..." But Vaiṣṇava says "No, you must have the real thing, then you can cease from this unreal necessities. Otherwise after living for some time in brahma satya, then you'll come, "Oh, this is useless. I don't enjoy. Let me go again to open hospital, school, engage in something politics, no work..." But you cannot do. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. We are living entities. We require engagement, necessities. So give up necessities means these rascal necessities. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's sannyāsī, He has no necessity. Why He's crying for Govinda? He has given up the whole world, sannyāsī. And why He's crying for Govinda? That is real necessity. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Govinda necessity. The necessity is Govinda is not alone. There again life, again Vṛndāvana, again gopīs, again dancing, again eating, again everything. That necessity.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: They used to give us a simple example at school. They said that the people that lived in Mexico City...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we accept that. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). If, at the time of death, he thinks that "If I would have possessed a beak," then he gets the life. That's all. (laughter) That's a fact.

Rādhāvallabha: They say that this is the way the different types of bodies come into being, that by the desire...

Prabhupāda: That we say also. There is no difficulty. Because at the time of death, whatever you are thinking, you'll get the next body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Rādhāvallabha: They say, though, that this is how the different bodies come into being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we say also.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, naturally.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: When we printed that Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is Authorized, that little booklet, we gave the names of professors who appreciated our movement, and their school, their college. So there are some demons in America who.... Well, like we gave the name and address of the professor in that book. So some demons in America got a hold of that book, and wrote all the professors letters blaspheming our movement and Your Divine Grace and telling them that "Professor, you should withdraw your name. You are giving your support to a horrible movement." So we have many enemies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did the professors write back?

Rāmeśvara: Dr. Judah got a copy of one such letter, and he mailed it to Jayādvaita, so I've seen it. Very, very blasphemous, poisonous, but it was written by a very educated person. I could tell by the style of writing that the person who wrote that letter was very literate.

Prabhupāda: He did not disclose his name?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, his name and address.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Ekaś candras tamo hanti. Stars, they cannot do anything; they simply glitter, that's all. Glow-worms.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one boy joined our temple here, he was attending a very well known college and straight A's in physics, a scientist. So his parents were a little concerned. His father is a very big professor at California Institute of Technology, the biggest technical school in America. His mother is a professor of anthropology, and she is in the family of millionaires from Germany, German industrialists, so they were very concerned. So they came to visit their boy at our temple, and now the mother is coming regularly, giving nice donations and sometimes spending the weekend.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Dānavīr: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So give him nice. He's living with us?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In the material world, whatever you do, the central point is sex. That's all. This is the verdict of the śāstras. Whatever big, big things you do, the central point is sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that's a point which I've noticed. Sometimes when I'm talking to someone, I tell them that "Practically speaking, all that you're doing is eating, sleeping, mating and defending." But they say, "I don't agree with you because," they say, "we're doing so many things. Just like our school work; it is not eating, sleeping, mating and defending. It is philosophy, appreciation of literature."

Prabhupāda: Then what is the end? The end is sex.

Rāmeśvara: The end is sex. Just like they have these big, big skyscrapers for so many businesses...

Prabhupāda: This big, big philosopher Freud, and they're only sex.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Any question about this statement? You can discuss.

Nalinikantha: This chapter is entitled "Prahlāda Instructs His Demoniac Schoolmates." Teaching the children.

Prabhupāda: He was taking opportunity to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness during tiffin hours. When the teachers would go away... During tiffin time, of course, the teachers go away, and Prahlāda Mahārāja immediately will... (aside:) Let him come here. He'd immediately take the opportunity of preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (greets Indian guests in Bengali) Āsun, come on. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa consciousness even in the classroom. All the school friends were sons of demons, means atheist class of men. So they did not know anything about God, and Prahlāda Mahārāja was taking advantage of the school tiffin hour and preaching. So his first beginning of the teaching was kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavtān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the beginning of life, when we are children, we should learn about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the beginning of his teachings.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He is addressing his friends, "born of demoniac families, my dear friends." (laughs) Give him one chair, Dr. Wolfe. Yes, that's nice. He used to address his father also as "the best of the demons." Once his father asked him, "My dear son, what nice lesson you have learned in the school? Please tell me." So he addressed his father, asura-vārya, "the best of the asuras."

tat sādhu manye 'sura-vārya dehināṁ

sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt

hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

(SB 7.5.5)

So, "My dear father," not "father," "the best of the asuras," asurya-vārya, the chief asura, "in my opinion," tat sādhu manye, "I think, so far I have studied," tat sādhu manye, "I think that is very nice, very honest profession of occupation for persons who are always full of anxieties." In the material world everyone is full of anxiety. That's a fact. Even in your country, the President Nixon, he was full of anxiety while he was in office, and now, out of his office, he's also full of anxiety. So just see.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is very difficult to understand for the demonic. Prahlāda Mahārāja was instructing among the demons. So for them it was difficult. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja was trying. The purport is read, this verse?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes. You say that the problem is that there's a lack of spiritual education in their lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect always, especially in this age. There is no spiritual education. Hm? Do you think, Dr. Wolfe, there is spiritual education? Is there any in the school, colleges, universities?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying if there's any real spiritual education in the colleges and schools.

Dr. Wolfe: To produce new sense-gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Entanglement. Sat-saṅga chāḍiyā kāinu asate vilāsa te-kāraṇe lāgila ye mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa. This entanglement.... To repeat birth and death is entanglement. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ. They're obliged to accept this entanglement life. So? Time is up? So read another verse.

Hṛdayānanda: Another verse?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I have a question, if it's all right. This is, Prahlāda is instructing his schoolmates, but his schoolmates, I think they would argue, "That's all right, but we are young now; let us enjoy. Then later on in life we shall take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: And unless you learn.... Just like education is given when one is young, and when one is old enough, he cannot take any education. The education, receptive faculty is there when one is young. Otherwise, he cannot take any education. What do you think?

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I always thought, I always thought: "Later, later, I will. Later, later." But now I'm sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, education, everywhere, all over the world, education is given when one is young. That is the time. I think here in America there is adult education?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles we find so many houses: "Now Renting." (break)

Rādhāvallabha: They told us in school that in India there are so many people, practically you cannot even move. But when we go to India we see there is miles and miles of empty land, simply a few cities where it's crowded.

Prabhupāda: Cities are crowded. Village? Very nice. (break)

Nalinīkaṇṭha: ...there were so many people just in India that Mahārāja Ugrasena had ten quadrillion bodyguards alone.

Prabhupāda: At that time the India was whole planet. (break)

Rādhāvallabha: ...the body moves because of the presence of the soul. The scientists say that the body moves due to electronic impulses from the brain that cause the muscles to contract.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, why don't you produce it? Why you talk nonsense?

Rādhāvallabha: I can't produce. It has happened by evolution over many millions of years. I don't have that long.

Prabhupāda: So why you are dreaming? Do it practically.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And if you accept Christianity, then the Catholic process, I think—I do not know—that is only way.

Richard: But is the point that the Catholic Church makes the only point to be made?

Prabhupāda: Not Catholic. I mean to say, any church original, authoritatively, that is genuine. If you deviate from that, then you cannot claim to that school.

Rāmeśvara: It's an example that if the Catholic Church is presenting the teachings of Jesus as it is, and then later on other churches deviate a little, then to deviate from the teachings of Jesus is bad, and to stick strictly to the teachings of Jesus is the only way, in Christianity. That's the idea.

Richard: Yes, but the goal is similar in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: The goal cannot be similar. If you deviate, the goal is different.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Trying to find, that means you do not know.

Richard: No, I think life is a pursuit, I don't think it...

Prabhupāda: What is that pursuit if you have no aim or objective? You are going to school, the object is you become a graduate. If you do not know what is the ultimate goal, what is this pursuit?

Richard: Why pursue something?

Prabhupāda: You are going to school, college, suppose you are going to be graduate, but if you do not know what is the ultimate end of pursuit, then what is this pursuit? Simply blind?

Richard: No, it's, it's just trying to make your life work.

Prabhupāda: There must be some goal, ultimate goal. That we must know. That is called pursuit. If you do not know what is the ultimate goal of life, then there is no meaning of pursuit.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: We are correcting-Kṛṣṇa, or God, then everything will be all right. Otherwise failure. Now you American people you write, "In God We Trust." But if I ask you "What is God?" you cannot reply. Then how do you trust in God? Blindly. If we trust in God, we must know that God is actually the only trustworthy person. Then if I put my trust in Him, that is sensible. But if I do not know what is God, no idea, and if we simply write, "In God We Trust," what is this? This is slogan. But actually people are becoming godless. In schools, colleges, they are prohibiting, "Don't talk of God." Do they not?

Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the bills they are writing the.... Why this hypocrisy? Why this hypocrisy? In the schools, colleges, you are forbidding, "Don't talk of God," and on the bills you are writing, "In God We Trust." That means if the bill is not paid, don't be dissatisfied, you trust in God. (laughs) Although I'm giving you a piece of paper, don't hesitate to take it. Trust in God, it will be paid. They write, "I promise to pay," but people may not have faith in this word. Actually, I'm paying you hundred rupees—or a thousand rupees-worth currency note, but actually it is paper. But only on faith and trust I'm accepting it, it is one thousand dollars. That much. In last war, the Germany, marks note were thrown in the street. And the bunch of note, taken to the confectioner, "Give me a piece of bread," There is no bread; they throw away. It happened, actually. So these notes are accepted on the understanding that the government will pay. But time may be there when government may be not able to pay. And it has become practically experienced in the last war. So everything should be done scientifically. If we say that in God we trust, then we must know what is God, whether actually we can put our faith and trust in Him, whether He is trustworthy, what is that God. This science should be introduced. There is science; we are preaching that science. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to teach Kṛṣṇa science, science of Kṛṣṇa, science of God. So the government should take up, American government, and cooperate with us. Teach the people the science of God. Then it will be a great, benevolent welfare activity. Simply giving their money to the poor, to the needy, will not help them.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of another civil war?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Possibly some sort of a race war or something. In Boston, they have a lot of trouble because of this bussing. They bus the black children into the white neighborhoods to go to school to achieve equal education, and the white communities do not like this. In Boston there has been a lot of violence between the black people and the white people. Very much hatred, very much hate each other.

Prabhupāda: So only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Ambarīṣa: Yes. About a month ago there was a black lawyer, and he was walking out of the City Hall in Boston, and some white people beat him with an American flag. They beat him with an American flag and hurt him very badly, and this caused very much...

Prabhupāda: Commotion.

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So in the school, college classes, there is sometimes argument?

Satsvarūpa: All the time. (laughter) We always save half the time for questions, and immediately, "How do you know that that is true?" All challenging. "Why should I believe?" "How could God present the scriptures?" All faithless.

Jayādvaita: In this part of the country, I think the students, generally they admit there is God. They're a little pious in this central portion. There are so many farms and they're not so deteriorated.

Prabhupāda: Polluted.

Jayādvaita: But then they don't accept that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only process for understanding God. They want to maintain Christian religion, or.... Not Christian religion, but sense gratification and, at the same time, God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We want to regulate. That's all.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: It used to be what they call a Christian Brothers school.

Prabhupāda: That we wanted to purchase?

Hari-śauri: Oh, that nunnery.

Prabhupāda: Nunnery. So they wanted to maintain themselves by becoming washermen. Still, they could not maintain. They eventually became washerwoman to maintain. Huge establishment. So I wanted, negotiation was there. They persisted that the church should not be broken. No? To be broken.

Hari-śauri: Yes, there were different sections. They had a school there and,...

Prabhupāda: So we thought that we shall use it as temple. That they disagreed. "No, you cannot keep it, you have to break it, then we can sell to you." Then why shall I break it? We shall pay for it and break it? No. Then the negotiation failed. But a huge land, and we are prepared to purchase. In England, in London, I was..., one, two churches I was negotiating, and one church, that man, he said, "I'll burn into ashes. I'll not sell it to Bhaktivedanta." (laughs) Recently we wanted to purchase in St. James Park one nice house. So they did not give us. They..., we offered better price; still they did not give us.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So why you cannot write propaganda? You should. You are preaching. You must meet them and must convince them that simply getting money is not the solution of the problem. (microphone rattling) That you have to convince.

Jayādvaita: Sometimes they say that it's not to have more and more money, but we have to go to school so that we can get some job, otherwise how will we live? So we tell them that we haven't done anything, for eight years we haven't worked, and we have that, we have (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: We are not attending any job.

Jayādvaita: No. (laughs) We're living better than them.

Prabhupāda: And still we are living very comfortably.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Another proof is even when there are austerities, we do not mind to accept it because there is a higher pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have greater pleasure, that this austerity will please Kṛṣṇa. So we must do it. Our aim is how to please Kṛṣṇa. That is our argument. Go on reading.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: Well, we do not teach about these things...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect.

George Gullen: .... in public schools because we do not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now whether still we shall remain in ignorance or we shall learn this science and teach, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement. No, it is not that. This is science, scientific. So leading personalities like you, teachers, professors and other leading men, they should try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is and join. It is for the human society, it is not for a certain section.

George Gullen: I would like very much to know more about these matters myself, personally.

Prabhupāda: So kindly do that. You are little interested. So we are receiving orders from all universities, colleges, of our books. You have seen our books? These are our books.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Purport. "People in general always require a leader who can teach the public by practical behavior. A leader cannot teach the public to stop smoking if he himself smokes. Lord Caitanya said that a teacher should behave properly even before he begins teaching. One who teaches in that way is called ācārya, or the ideal teacher. Therefore, a teacher must follow the principles of śāstra, scripture, to reach the common man. The teacher cannot manufacture rules against the principles of revealed scriptures. The revealed scriptures, like Manu-saṁhitā and others, are considered the standard books to be followed by human society. Thus the leader's teaching should be based on the principles of the standard rules as they are practiced by the great teachers. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also affirms that one should follow in the footsteps of great devotees, and that is the way of progress on the path of spiritual realization. The king or the executive head of a state, the father and the schoolteacher are all considered to be natural leaders of the innocent people in general. All such natural leaders have a great responsibility to their dependents; therefore they must be conversant with standard books of moral and spiritual codes."

George Gullen: Very good, very good, I believe all that. Every word. The people need leadership, inspiration that they can follow with their whole heart.

Prabhupāda: There must be practice, that we are teaching. That simply not theoretical, but practical. Here in our institute, we teach all the students practically how to become God conscious. Theoretical knowledge will not help us. There must be practical behavior. They are rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārati, then having class, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chanting, in this way, twenty-four hours engaged. It is not fifteen minutes recreation. No. Twenty-four hours program.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: I think there are many good signs, however—your own movement. And we have..., I noticed you use the beads. We have a priest, Father Peyton, who gathers thousands to recite the rosary. Mostly young people. There are other movements that gather young people, which require a discipline. And perhaps since we think more in terms of the individual rather than the group, and the individual's decision, we possibly have forgotten that group discipline is very important. Therefore the attraction of your own movement and many others like that.... Within the Roman Catholics, there is now a very hopeful sign of mostly young people who are in what is called the charismatic movement, seeking to learn more of the Holy Spirit, seeking to change their lives for the better-however, at the same time, staying involved in the world. And it could be said that they seek to carry on the redemptive work of Jesus that he wishes done in the world, since he would be the key to our, to our advancement in the world. Our advancement, I say, and I'm not speaking of myself as a young man. But I think many young people in this charismatic movement, this is within Protestants and Catholics and others, I would say. There's a great emphasis among Jewish young people in the schools, to the development of the Jewish religion.

Prabhupāda: What is the difference? Can you explain? Young..., I have been several times inquired that why young people coming in this movement? What is the reason?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: So your particular plan is then to provide this kind of enlightenment, this kind of direction and education, through the ascetical process in which your group is involved. Yes. We, of course, have made efforts along this line through our schools and through our religious communities that have been successful more or less depending on efforts given to it.

Prabhupāda: The second-class man is also described, who is the second class.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas," or the administrators.

Prabhupāda: This is second class. They are not first class, they are second class. First class is above mentioned.

Scheverman: The brāhmaṇa

Prabhupāda: Yes, then second class. Second class also required.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I..., fortunately I was born in a very good family. So our familywise training was there. Especially in India, every family, it is like that. Trained up.

Kern: And your own schooling, then, in the local schools in Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not in the school, but in my family.

Kern: In the family. Any formal?

Prabhupāda: Not family. My mother taught us: if there is one grain on the floor, we shall take it, keep it on the head. It is God-sent.

Kern: Yes, and our mothers too, the same thing.

Prabhupāda: It is God-sent. The grain, food grain, it is actually given by God. You should not misuse it. This was the beginning of our training.

Kern: And then were you at the university or the school or somewhere?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Calcutta University. I was taught at the Scottish Churches College. All my professor's were Fathers and Reverends. Our principal was.... They were all Fathers. Mr. Scott.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: All over the world, yes. Therefore.... In your country.... You are opulent in every respect. You should.... We are cooperating, we can cooperate. Let us start that "Here is a school or college..." Just like there is engineering college, technological.... Here is a college to learn how to become first-class men. Why not?

Scheverman: It is part of your plan to operate schools for this purpose?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Scheverman: You hope eventually to have schools where training of this kind can be given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted.

Kern: When did you begin, Your Excellency?

Prabhupāda: I began.... What do you mean by beginning? My beginning is from my childhood.

Kern: The Kṛṣṇa movement, in the Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa movement I started 1966.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: Do you have any in training for second class?

Prabhupāda: No, for the time being. (laughs) We have no means. Suppose.... Second class means he must be courageous to fight. So I have no means how to train them, you see? And without training, the second class, if you send him to the war, the experience is they will flee away. The many enemies coming, and they are going away.

Scheverman: Are you training people to become teachers in this school, this process of education?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you become. Without being first-class man, you cannot teach. A second-class, third-class, fourth-class man is not meant for teaching.

Scheverman: Where would you do this teaching?

Prabhupāda: Teaching everywhere, wherever there is possibility.

Kern: Do you do this by yourself? Are there any teachers?

Prabhupāda: No, I give them ideas, they go and teach. It is not one man's business.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: I see. And you appoint the secretaries then who are in charge of the groups, each local group.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to manage as far as possible, but I'm not getting any government's cooperation. It is all my personal endeavor.

Scheverman: Do you hope to acquire school buildings for teaching school?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? If there is arrangement for financing such school we can start, very nice.

Kern: Father would sell you a fine school.

Scheverman: We have a building that will be available shortly (laughs) if you want to start a school.

Prabhupāda: So let us cooperate.

Scheverman: (laughs) Let us cooperate. And your teachers. There's no question about the kind of thing you're talking about here is needed.

Prabhupāda: "Father" means responsibility. According to our Vedic literature, one should not become a father unless he can deliver his son from the cycle of birth and death. Pitā na sa syāj na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. At the present moment we are in the cycle of birth and death in the conditioned stage. So it is the duty of the father how to save the son from the cycle of birth and death. This is responsibility.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No community—everyone is welcome.

Scheverman: Well, there are ways in which we might work together and cooperate.

Prabhupāda: Just like a school. A school is open for everyone. Whoever wants to take up education, he can come.

Scheverman: I can understand that very well, because I have been a teacher for many years, and also the principal of the school, and can understand your educational concepts and the importance of them. You cannot operate a school without discipline, without training. People cannot use their brains useless they are in order.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be proper training.

Kern: God consciousness..., would you explain something of the religious experience of God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, God consciousness is the highest level. It is not possible for everyone. But in whatever platform he is, if there is cooperation with God consciousness movement, then he gets the result. Just like in this body.... Same example: leg's duty is different and brain duty is different, hand's duty is different, belly's duty different, but when there is cooperation, all the parts of the body derive the same benefit.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, how you think there is no authority? There is no sinful, and there is no..., everything is all right? Go on. Go to hell.

Jagadīśa: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was young I was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to...

Prabhupāda: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Satsvarūpa: This priest who joined us, who's now your man, he said that although he was a priest, he smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and drank all kind of wine. He began to drink wine, he said, because in their mass, in their ceremony, the priest drinks wine. And then then he became addicted.

Prabhupāda: These rascals are priests. And they'll protect religion.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: You see these two things especially, that they.... English is their mother tongue, mother language. They can easily become English scholar very easily. And Sanskrit language is no difficulty. Read and write, read and write, then he will learn. Our education in Sanskrit was in college. Of course, I was the best student in my class of Sanskrit. I was standing first. But we are not like the so-called Sanskrit scholars. But for our purpose we can read and write, that's all. Similarly, we don't want any very learned scholars, Sanskrit grammarian to manufacture jugglery of words, meanings. No, we don't want that. Simply we can conduct our business, that's all. Just like Marwaris, they, their education is up to their business understanding, that's all. They don't want to be scholars or technologists. You won't find in big, big Marwari family they have become a doctor, engineer or technologist, no. But in business dealings they are first class. (laughs) That they train. I had one Marwari friend in Calcutta. He was a very rich businessman and has got several (indistinct). So sometimes I went to his house. I saw that he had engaged a Sanskrit paṇḍita and an English teacher. That's all. So I asked him, "You don't send your children to school?" "No, no, no, no. I..." If we require some technologist, we can purchase. You pay some money; so many technologists you will get, M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C., C.H.C. All right, take payment and do business (indistinct). They employ very, very, very large salary. But on the head, management, their own sons, grandsons.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: They used to call that the "white man's burden."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man. What do you think? You are Englishman. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: It's getting.... (laughs) Just from hearing you speak in the last few months I can understand that the whole history that I was ever presented in school is completely warped around to the way that the English saw it, especially the last two centuries, when the British empire was on the move. It's completely...

Prabhupāda: But actually, the war was between Germany and England. Others joined, some interest or something. Actually, the war was to be fought between England and Germany.

Jagadīśa: There's one devotee who joined in Toronto, Frenchman, and he was in France at the time of the war. He's an older man. And he told me also.... His father was French, but he was sympathetic to the Nazis, and that it was actually Maxmillian or one of the Frenchmen who sided with the British, but the majority of the French people didn't mind the German occupation. It was due to one of the political factions siding with the British that there was a French underground and...

Prabhupāda: France, they are always enemy of Englishmen. There is is old history-Hundred Years' War, Seven Years' War. Napoleon also wanted to cut down the Britishers. France is dead enemy of England, and there is always competition.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: German people still hate England. They do not like to speak in English; that I have seen. In the bank they know English, but they won't speak it. English everyone knows. The Kaiser was against. They said that Kaiser is the grandson of Queen Victoria, from daughter's side. And King George from the son's side—Edward's seventh son. They were cousin brothers. So this Kaiser, when he was young boy, went to paternal uncle's house, when he was a young boy. So there was some playing, cut with a knife. So royal family, so many doctors came. So the boy was saying, "Why you are trying to cure it? Let the English blood go away." So from the childhood he was so inimical, that "I have got some English blood in my body, my mother is English, father German, so let the English blood go away." I do not know if that is fact, I heard it. (laughs) Maybe. It is joking also and serious. In our childhood in school, a book was there, "England's Work in India." One Mr. M. Ghosh, he wrote this book just to flatter the Englishmen. This, that "white man's burden." And it was the impression in those days: just to become like Englishmen, that is civilization. The Parsees in Bombay, they were the first-class flatterer, imitation, how to become like English lords, barons. This Tata factory was started by such ambition. They wanted to be English baron, lord, industrialist. In Calcutta also. Where our temple is, that is called saheb quarter. In our childhood we used to say saheb quarter. Saheb quarter means European neighborhood. They say our temple is saheb mandira in Māyāpur. And in Vṛndāvana aṇgrejī mandira. The same impression. To become saheb, that was great prestigious.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prof. O'Connell: Swamiji, if somebody is in the movement for several years and feels that he's not making progress and leaves, is he looked upon as a sinner or enemy? How do the devotees feel about persons like that?

Prabhupāda: Not like.... Just like in college, school, some student making rapid progress, some of them are a little slow. That does not mean that he should he rejected. He should be given chance. But if he follows the regulative principles, there is no chance of falling down. The regulative principle is that you refrain from these activities: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That will make him perfect. Very easy. We don't say no sex; we say illicit sex. So if you want sex, you become a gentleman, marry and live like a gentleman. Why illicit sex? There are many gṛhastha devotee. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's direct associate, Nityānanda, He was a gṛhastha. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was a gṛhastha. He married twice. First wife died, he married second wife. So gṛhastha is not rejected. Simply it is not that simply sannyāsīs will go back to home. No. Everyone can go. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ. They can go also. But one must be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The real education is life. Gurukula means it is a way of life training. It is said that brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānta. This is the way of life: how to learn controlling the senses. Nowadays we have got school, colleges, universities, but this method is not there, how to become dānta. The method is different, that "You can do whatever you like; you simply attend class." That is not the way of life. This is tapasya.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

(SB 6.1.13)

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Hitachi, yes. This is a church?

Kīrtanānanda: No, this is an institution, state institution for old people or mental home. I forget. "Western State School." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Hayagrīva.

Kīrtanānanda: I think he's in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: I'm trying to get him to bring his boy to New Vrindaban. He's down there with those meat-eaters.

Prabhupāda: She is not agreeable? I think that she is not very well treated by her husband.

Kīrtanānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... Otherwise, she is a good girl.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So therefore for knowledge, you have to go to a proficient man or person, that is knowledge. Why do you go to a school and college? Be in knowledge at home. If you want to steal even, you have to learn it from a professional thief, how to cheat, how to steal. That is also another kind of knowledge. You cannot steal unless you become expert by learning how to steal from an expert thief. So knowledge means you have to receive it from higher authority. That is knowledge.

Kulādri: What if one has material desire? How does he gain the desire for spiritual knowledge?

Prabhupāda: That means you are cats and dogs. The dog has no inquisitiveness. Therefore you are no better than the dog. The dog never comes to a spiritual master, "Give me some knowledge." Therefore you are as good as the dog. That is your qualification.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So it is bad?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It is bad for their way of life. Just like Prahlāda was preaching to his school friends. And I think almost 20,000 big books so far.

Prabhupāda: "So far" means?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Up to this month, for the first three weeks.

Hari-śauri: Means there's one more, one more week.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Nine days left.

Prabhupāda: What is your party doing?

Kīrtanānanda: What is what?

Prabhupāda: Your party, selling books?

Kīrtanānanda: I don't know what the figures are.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to...

Prabhupāda: No, you require lamp. So you finish that lamping business as simply as possible. In the balance time you save you improve your self-realization. That is the life. Just like this child, he wants to play. He does not go to school, does not take an education, and he improves type of toys, toys, he's engaged in improved type of football playing, and... Then is that very good intelligence?

Kīrtanānanda: But nobody works longer hours than the farmer.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: No one works harder than the farmer. The farmer has to work very hard.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is that if you think that electricity improvement is better than farming, we have no objection. But if you forget your real business, is that intelligent?

Kīrtanānanda: No, of course not.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is equal—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise not.

Hari-śauri: No. Materially speaking, they've tried so many ways to integrate the black with the whites here in America, but what has actually happened is, through those efforts, they've created a worse situation. By deliberately forcing black children and white children to go to the same schools... Sometimes they have what's called here bussing. It's a big major issue in politics now. Because they take all the black children and they take them to a white area just so that they can go to the school there. They actually take them further away from their local schools to another school, where it is all white children, so that they'll integrate and mix. So it's very controversial.

Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.

Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior. (end)

Marble Shop Visit -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Kṛṣṇa Balarāma used to practice race with the birds.

Hari-śauri: Now our boys are racing with the cows.

Prabhupāda: This is childish game. This nature is there in Kṛṣṇa. This is their only school building?

Kīrtanānanda: This is not ours. This was an old school building, public school, but that is not our building.

Prabhupāda: This is not our?

Kīrtanānanda: Not ours. (break) ...looks like it might clear today.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How these logs will be used?

Kīrtanānanda: Roof.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And you have to cut into planks? No. Or beams?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: For ignorance there is no need of guru. An ignorant cannot inquire about God. Intelligent man can inquire about God.

Guest: We have to pick up our children. Thank you. (break)

Prabhupāda: Pick up children from a school? Do you know him?

Devotee (2): They're from Wheeling.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Once you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, "If you are God, what will you do when I kick on your face?" Because if God is creating the sun, such a great planet in the sky, thousands of tons of energy, so if they are the source of the sun, but "What can they do if I kick in their face? Nothing. So how is that God?" Kṛṣṇa, when..., someone was, Paundraka, he was saying he was God, He said, "All right, hold My cakra." And He took off his head. So to these false Gods we can say "What will you do if we kick you in the face? You cannot save yourself."

Prabhupāda: That is the proper treatment. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Śyāmakunda: But if it was wrapped up in a package and they didn't know it was the dog or their mother, they could probably eat it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they can eat by packing.

Hari-śauri: They eat their pets sometimes. I used to have a pet rabbit, and one day I came home from school and my father had killed it and eaten it for dinner. (laughter) He said I wasn't looking after it properly, so he...

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This business of simply taking economics into consideration...

Prabhupāda: They do not. Rascals... How to live, they do not know. Animals. There is a class of men in India, they take, I told you, the dead body of a cow.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. The aim is to please the Supreme through the spiritual master. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. This is the idea. Now, who is teaching this tapasya? Where is the school, college? Smoke: this is tapasya. And they are smoking before teacher. No offense. What you'll expect from such student? Animal civilization. This is not civilization. No tapasya, no brahmacārī. Tapo divyaṁ (SB 5.5.1). And tapasya begins from brahmacārī. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena (SB 6.1.13), to control. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dantaḥ. How to control senses, that is the beginning of life. Not ABCD learning and maybe your character may be less than an animal's, and you have got a degree of the university. You become a learned man. No. That is not accepted. Even from moral instruction, who is educated? That is described by Canakya Pandit.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can merge yourself into the Brahman effulgence. But that is also not safe because in the śāstra we see that arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Even one merges oneself into the impersonal Brahman, he again falls down. Patanty adhaḥ. We have seen practical, in India many sannyāsīs, they elevate themselves by jñāna-kāṇḍa, but because they cannot stay, they again come to the karma-kāṇḍa, philanthropy activities and hospitals and schools. That is their fall down. So either in karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kāṇḍa you cannot achieve the real purpose of life. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali visera bandha. Either you accept karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kanda, they're different pots of poison. Amṛta boliya jeba khai. If by mistake you take poison, death is inevitable. Similarly, by karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa nobody can derive any actual benefit. By upasana-kāṇḍa, that is the... The Vedas, Vedic ritualistic ceremony means there are three kāṇḍas: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, and upāsana-kāṇḍa. So upāsana-kāṇḍa, there are recommendation of many, worship of many demigods. But the best upāsana is Viṣṇūpāsana. Viṣṇor arādhanaṁ sarveṣāṁ. Viṣṇor arādhanaṁ param. Oṁ tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padam. There are different types of upāsana recommendation, but the viṣṇor arādhanam, worshiping Lord Viṣṇu, that is the Supreme.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So you begin this preaching work in India with this film. With few assistants go village to village. They'll appreciate very much. Here also they will appreciate. What do you think? School, college, university. They'll get an idea of new life.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. There are many colleges that give courses now in alternate life styles.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this a...

Kīrtanānanda: This film, they will love to show this in class.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the alternative life style. It is not that... This is the only. The other thing is fictitious. That's nice. Keep it. Any other film? No. Make similar films. And I was anxious about food production. That is there, already there.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And you people believed that? I'm surprised. (laughter) You are also fools and rascals.

Hari-śauri: This is what they teach in all the schools.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have little models, Śrīla Prabhupāda, made out of plastic.

Prabhupāda: Ah, they are... Let them, we take them as rascals, that's all. Mūḍha.

Hari-śauri: That other argument that you use about how the moon rays give life to the vegetables... So how is it that there's no life on the moon? If the rays from the moon give life, then how is it there's no life where the rays come from?

Prabhupāda: They have never gone to moon. (laughs) All bogus. And this Mars expedition will be a failure. Let them spend millions of dollars. I told about

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually it is taught in all schools. There's a book called Molecules to Man. It's written by a very famous biologist, and it has been taught in school, saying that you come like this, from molecules, now you become human beings.

Prabhupāda: Now what...? Leave aside man. Molecules to chicken. How it is done? What is their answer?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say give enough length of time.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I give them? Here I see. Within a week, I get.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They'll ask, though, "Where did the first egg come from?"

Prabhupāda: First, second, no. We see that... They say you have to wait, give the molecules chance, hundreds of billions of years, then you'll see life. But I'm not going to live for billions of years, neither scientist is going to live. But here I see practically that a small egg, it gives life within one week.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, as young children we used to have to put our hand over our heart and say a pledge to the flag, in America. And if one didn't say it, they were thrown out of school. They changed that law now. It's not required. It used to be.

Prabhupāda: Mental concoction will be changed. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Their only business is mental concoction: today it is good, tomorrow it is bad. That is mental concoction. If mind likes it, it is good; if mind does not like it, it is bad. No standard. (break)

Hari-śauri: They have hospitals for animals, if your animal gets sick.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly dogs and cats, birds.

Hari-śauri: The animal that was making the noise was the man on the porch. (laughs)

Vipina: Many people have horses in the neighborhood. They have horse shows, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They spend lots of money on fancy horses, and in this way, one becomes greater than another by showing his horses. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...slam the door. The door is secure or not? (break) ...trying to find out that happiness from this body, that is mistake. That happiness is there in the spirit soul, not this body. Happiness is our right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, we want happiness. Mistaking, where is the happiness. The living being, he is to enjoy happiness. But they are trying to give happiness to the body, which is dead. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). The body is dead from the very beginning, but they are trying to draw happiness from the dead matter.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In India we have been offered so many land. But we have no men (indistinct).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I also got a letter from Manipur, that Life Member, Kulavida Singh, he was concerned that the young people are now giving up the religious thought, so he wanted to establish some sort of school...

Prabhupāda: That (indistinct) is made by Vivekananda, yato mata tato patha, (?) very bad.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. So as soon as... They wanted to start an ISKCON branch, and he was a...

Prabhupāda: I think it will not be difficult. Manipur is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be very easy, because...

Prabhupāda: ...Vaiṣṇava. So if they understand, that will be very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: All the, even the government participates so they wrote me a letter saying that they can give us nice land, plot, and...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Now that Govindajī's temple?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Govindajī's temple is taken over by the government, so I talked to, I wrote a letter...

Prabhupāda: Government, they cannot manage.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: Retired professor? From what school?

Professor Flemings: University of Maryland.

Vṛṣākapi: The University of Maryland. What was your subject?

Professor Flemings: Modern poetry and theater.

Vṛṣākapi: Oh, very nice, very nice. This is, ah, you are a physicist?

Carl Warentz: That's correct.

Vṛṣākapi: And your name is?

Carl Warentz: Carl Warentz.

Vṛṣākapi: Carl Warentz, Prabhupāda, he's from Catholic University, physicist.

Prabhupāda: If you are uncomfortable you can sit on this cot...

Carl Warentz: No, that's okay, I'll sit like this.

Prabhupāda: You are welcome to sit down here.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: She has got children? No.

Mr. Boyd: No, she doesn't have children, but Haṁsadūta Mahārāja sent this child for Himāvatī to take care of at the school, and I guess the school was not ready yet, but she's taking care of him now, and he's a handful, too. She came up to New Delhi with us and spent a couple nights while we were getting some passports straightened around and visas cleared up. We had "Baldy," they called him—I never did know his name. We had a good time with him. It's a real pleasure having this opportunity to meet you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: As soon as I say, "Ah, it is very nice place," the time is over, they say "You please get out." (laughter and groans from devotees)

Mr. Boyd: The school in Vṛndāvana, is this, I assume this is to be out there in the yard that they were clearing. When do you anticipate that will be built?

Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Dress? Dress is not important. Practically, as sannyāsī, brahmacārī, we dress with saffron cloth, but sometimes you do not like, but we have to do business with you; therefore we change. What can be done? "Necessity has no law."

Janice Johnson: I'm also interested in... You all have moved your school out of Texas. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Gurukula school, yes.

Janice Johnson: Why was that done?

Prabhupāda: Why? Gurukula school? We are training children from the very beginning of life to understand spiritual importance of life.

Hari-śauri: She's wondering why we moved from Texas.

Prabhupāda: We have... No, we have got there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have, have got our school there. We have about seven or eight schools now all throughout America. We've actually expanded.

Janice Johnson: But wasn't that school moved to India?

Prabhupāda: No, it is maintained, not in large scale, but in small scale.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Rather than have one large central school, we have smaller.

Janice Johnson: Seven or eight schools around the U.S.? Where are they?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Around various farming communities especially.

Interviewer: How many members do you now have? How many followers?

Hari-śauri: About ten thousand.

Interviewer: Ten thousand? That is in this country or is that...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Our challenge should be "Do it." If you cannot do it, then you give up your title, let it go to the chicken. Huh? What is the wrong there, if we say "Dr. Chicken," "Dr. Frog"?

Sadāpūta: These theories of theirs are taught in high schools and colleges as fact, practically. Like the student in Gainesville was telling us that he was taking zoology, and they were teaching evolution, and they were saying that it wasn't a theory anymore but it was a proven fact, and that he was quite dissatisfied with that.

Prabhupāda: Proven fact?

Sadāpūta: Yes, that's how they are teaching it. They don't even teach evolution as a theory anymore, but they say it's been proven as a fact now, what they are teaching.

Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheating. There is also a big man in Bombay who is working on this line. He's a member of this International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life. Now they call... In fact, they use a Sanskrit word for this life coming from chemicals, they call jīvana particles of life. So they are also catching this idea that life is nothing but molecules. So along with this article, they are also writing from Bombay. So actually it is worldwide, all over, this concept. In India I think a little more interesting to give seminars along these lines. In India in the universities, the reaction of the... My feeling is that it will be different.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So do it.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: I don't know. Generally the bookstores, they don't take our books because our distributors are distributing on the street in front of the bookstore, they say it is competition. But the college bookstores, they all take our books. We just got a report from Satsvarūpa Mahārāja that this past month of June in America they sold seventy-five standing orders. And that is remarkable, because all the schools are closed in June, and still they sold them books. They closed for the summer, and still they are ordering your books.

Prabhupāda: In this street I think there is one library office...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's Fifty..., it's either Fifty-fifth or Fifty-third, and it's called, it's one of main sub-branches. Yes, it's a very well known one.

Prabhupāda: Free rent?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Free rent. Rent a safe deposit box for one year and we'll give you an extra six months free." But first you have to pay for one year. Chemical Bank. Huge buildings now everywhere.

Prabhupāda: This is Rockefeller?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda, now everything looks like the Rockefeller Plaza.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: Everyone is infected with this "Life comes from chemicals." That I was talking to the air hostess on the plane coming, and she said, "But life comes from chemicals." This is the way everybody's taught in the schools, they don't know any different and they don't think about it, they have no intelligence to understand.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we say that you take an egg and find out the chemicals and put it into the incubator or under a chicken, get life, "No, wait millions of years." This bluffing. And this moon planet going means Arizona. That is now disclosed. They take photographs in the Arizona. That's all.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage them, so they just give them free money. Also famous for its labor unions, the most powerful in America. They force the city to pay the highest wages for the garbage men, for school teachers, the highest anywhere in the country. So that's another reason they are in debt so much. (out of car, walking)

Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one of our posters for our Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are doing here(?).

Rāmeśvara: The highest paid garbage men in America.

Prabhupāda: Still it is unclean. This is subway.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a little quieter(?) from now on, Prabhupāda. This is the Plaza Hotel.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever heard of it, the Plaza? (break) Growing out of stone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is little crack, they are growing.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are the kind of tables we want to put on the balcony. Remember I showed you that place, our patio on the third floor. So I want to put those kind of tables in the restaurant.

Rāmeśvara: Like a snack bar. (break) ...problems in New York is in the schools they cannot control the violence. The students are very violent. They sometimes fight their teachers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was going to school, I grew up in New York, here in Manhattan, twenty years ago probably, and sometimes there would be children's gangs, and they would come in and beat the teachers.

Prabhupāda: That is the... Killed, in the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our school one teacher was killed by such a gang.

Rāmeśvara: This is still a big problem. And the teachers are also very militant. They blackmail the city that, "Unless you give us more money, we refuse to..." Then they close the schools. They go on strike. The teachers have joined a union, and they are very militant, they always go on strike. So sometimes the school is closed half the year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśava, I want to show Prabhupāda the banner, so maybe you can stop...

Hari-śauri: In a lot of big cities that's a major problem now. They can't get any teachers to teach there because the children are so violent and uncontrollable that the teachers are just too scared to work there.

Prabhupāda: In our Gurukula we'll improve. But the parents do not want that their children should be religious, sādhu.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: This article explains that when he first appeared in public, he presented himself as a Hindu representative of Śaṅkarācārya's cult, but then later on he concocted this Transcendental Meditation, and then he presented it as a science so that he could get government grants to teach it in schools and things like this.

Rādhāvallabha: They have another guru here, Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh.

Prabhupāda: He has also come?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: My father did that with a pet rabbit that I had as well. Came home from school one day and it was gone.

Prabhupāda: They are eating their own child...

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, we come from the lowest of the low. (in car)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the possibility of opening more than one temple in this city? Just like if there's a good building on the East Side, if we can manage, what about the possibility of that?

Prabhupāda: If you can manage, very good. In a city like New York you can have ten, twelve centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I mean the Christians have so many churches in every part of the city.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Similarly, we can have temples.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Price raising, they want all comforts.

Rāmeśvara: So if someone is sick they will not take him to the hospital because there is no one to take care of him there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This school is called Amsterdam School, Prabhupāda, because this is Amsterdam Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very funny that Ninth Avenue turns into Amsterdam Avenue at this point. Ninth Avenue becomes Amsterdam Avenue on about Sixtieth Street.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So often you come to the temple?

Mr. Kallman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hm. So? (break)

Devotee (5): Two hundreds places, universities, schools, government institutions, big ministers, temple managements for all,...

Prabhupāda: They have given all orders?

Devotee (5): Yes, most of them gave orders to our... Even unlike... Some like Unites States some place, they would order all seventeen Caitanya-caritāmṛtas, and all the volumes of Bhāgavatam out and place an order for the rest to come, plus other books. And we lowered the price to about 45 rupees which was, which was right where they can afford to pay for the volumes (indistinct) take them.

Prabhupāda: What is the usual price?

Devotee (5): $7.95 which would be like too many, eighty rupees or something like that. It would be very expensive for India for one volume.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And Māy... You have been in Māyāpur also?

Mr. Kallman: No, we haven't ever been to Māyāpur. We keep...

Prabhupāda: Mm, Māyāpur also.

Mrs. Kallman: How is the school in Vṛndāvana? The school?

Prabhupāda: That is still, building is going on.

Mrs. Kallman: Have they started?

Prabhupāda: After the building is finished.

Mr. Kallman: Oh, you know, you must be very busy Prabhupāda, with your writings and your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes, at night. At day time, I don't find time.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The British did that so that the weavers could not work, just to introduce their Manchester's cloth. So many things they did. It is in the history.

Rāmeśvara: In America you never hear such history, in school...

Prabhupāda: They simply killed the Red Indians, that is the only.

Rāmeśvara: But in the schools they never tell you these things.

Prabhupāda: How they will tell, shameful.

Hari-śauri: In England it was "How we saved India."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is saving India?

Rāmeśvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.

Hari-śauri: They showed us this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What is Iran's business going on? I got some good report from Nandarāṇī that she is in contact with the Shah's daughter, princess. Is that a fact?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, Nandarāṇī Prabhu is doing very well. She's got a Gurukula, a school for the Indian children, they are being well attended. Also Mahārāja, Parivrājakācārya Svāmī, he has been in touch with the Shah's daughter and he's been preaching to them.

Prabhupāda: Shah's son-in-law is interested, I have heard.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, he is interested.

Prabhupāda: That's good. They are enlightened, the daughter and the son-in-law both?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, they are both interested, but they are also very much...

Prabhupāda: Biased. They are also biased.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And so Nandarāṇī is also working?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She is happy. She, for a while she taught at a karmī school, from that school...

Prabhupāda: She has got experience.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, she's very good.

Prabhupāda: Both of them are very intelligent. And Nandarāṇī is more intelligent than her husband. (laughs) I know that.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I find that he is very intelligent, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Dayānanda.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is intelligent, but Nandarāṇī is still more intelligent. (laughs) I know that. Both of them are intelligent, but this girl appears to be more intelligent. That's all right. What about their daughters?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They are there. They're very happy.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Tehran.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Interviewer: The American. And about eighteen months ago or more, if I remember right, there was a film, a documentary, on your school in Texas, on the National Broadcasting Company's program, which was very hostile, if not vicious, attack on your whole movement, the rearing of the small children. So my question is, what is it that made you bring your movement into a culture and a religious ethos which is hostile to begin with, with most of your major assumptions?

Prabhupāda: So this is education. The Western people are not educated in the spiritual life. So our predecessors, our gurus, they are for educating people in the spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He advised Indians to go, first of all, make his life..., Indian should make his life perfect, and then he should go outside India and preach the perfectional life, how to become perfect in life. That was His mission. He said pṛthivīte āche yata. You understand Bengali?

Interviewer: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man was the chief of the Benares school?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Sanskrit department.

Prabhupāda: Very learned scholar in Sanskrit. Titles in Sanskrit.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...Ratha-yātrā, "No Parking. Sunday Parade."

Prabhupāda: You convince the authorities of America that my logic, andha-paṅgor nyāya. Who will explain this? Andha-paṅgor nyāya, lame and blind logic.

Hari-śauri: Ah, lame and blind.

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes, I told a reporter that just a few days ago.

Prabhupāda: America is blind by money. Dhana-madāndha, when one gets too much money he becomes blind. Dhana-durmadāndha. Tasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadāndha. To get too much riches means he becomes fool and blind. He doesn't care. So this blindness of America... And we Indians, we have no money, but we have got culture. Combine together, then things will be very nicely done for the good of the whole world. Simply money is not the end; there must be culture. Take that culture, Vedic culture, and use it by American money, then the whole world will be paradise, Vaikuṇṭha. In India one paper, Sunday, they have published a nice article about us: "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Catches On."

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Satsvarūpa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he's very interested in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that he thinks it's a new kind of art that your devotees are painting. That's also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized.

Rāmeśvara: Right now they have one big exhibit of photographs that the British took when they first came to India.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where's that?

Rāmeśvara: It's at the Asia House Gallery nearby.

Ghanaśyāma: We have professors who buy the complete standing order series of the Bhāgavatam-it's because they like the artwork. And then they read the philosophy and like that too. But the art attracts them many times first. They very much like the purports of your writings, that it gives a living expression of the peoples of India other than just historical.

Prabhupāda: ...books.

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Ghanaśyāma: We were talking about the pictures, the paintings in the books. We were mentioning how professors liked the paintings and how sometimes they actually buy the books because of the nice paintings. Sometimes when we go back to see a professor or librarian a year later, we'll notice that they'll have a catalogue up on the bulletin board. Sometimes they'll take the cover of the jacket of the book and they'll put it on display. And now we're getting recognized when we go to some of the colleges. They say, "Oh, you're the man with the nice colorful books. We've seen your catalogue, we got one in the mail, we've seen your books, and they're very attractive books." And our men are getting known now that because we've been to most of the schools in America once, and they say "You're the men who don't leave until your books are in the library." Even if the school is closed, our men, now, they'll go to the professor's home and they'll get him out of bed to come to see the librarian or to write a notice or to call the librarian. So even if the school is closed, the books are still being placed, and when the students come the books are in the library. (break) (in car)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Is that what you want?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gurudāsa Mahārāja can speak very nice.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: So I said "We haven't got any education." Under the law of this country, if they have to remain here, they have to go up to sixteen years to the school.

Prabhupāda: No, education is good, but the association is...

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No, they don't have any asso... They don't go anywhere. They don't eat anywhere. Even so many invitations come, either they go to the library or they go to the temple or this place. They have no friends, nothing else. They don't even take the water anywhere, even to my brother's house. They don't take anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Your brother is also here?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Yes, he's here.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

George Harrison: How is that school in Texas, you know, with all the children?

Gurudāsa: Gurukula.

Jayatīrtha: They have six schools now, other than that. This place in France, they have a school there, this farm, and in Dallas, Los Angeles, Pennsylvania, Māyāpur.

Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana Gurukula also was started.

George Harrison: There's all kinds of strange things written in those newspapers, Dallas, strange things. Particularly about the little children's school.

Hari-śauri: It's because they don't bother to find out before they write things.

Gurudāsa: Just like they said that the children sleep in the basement. That's because it was in the hot summer. Everyone goes to the basement in the summer in Dallas.

Mukunda: The kids don't feel any difficulty at all sleeping on the floor. Children are naturally austere. It's just after you get to a certain age that conditioning affects you.

Devotee: They say they live without furniture. (laughter)

Gurudāsa: They're prejudiced about those things.

Jayatīrtha: They have to eat with their hands. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You have got the last copy of Seventh Canto?

Hari-śauri: Seven, Three?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Pradyumna: This was about the brahmacārī in the gurukula, in the school, what a young child should learn to practice.

George Harrison: Yes. But I thought you were saying something about the sound of the two sounds of Kṛṣ and ṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayī.

Gurudāsa: Ah, yes. "I wish I had ten thousand ears to hear the sweet sound of Kṛṣṇa, and ten thousand tongues to say it."

George Harrison: So this isn't..., I didn't get this one?

Mukunda: Not yet, no. That's latest. It just came out.

George Harrison: Seventh Canto, Part Three.

Hari-śauri: They bring the first two copies to Śrīla Prabhupāda wherever he is. This we got in New York just before we left.

Gurudāsa: It's right off the press.

Prabhupāda: These pictures are made by our boys.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: You once said in Vṛndāvana that the Marwaris, they don't bother going to school because they can make a lot of money by sitting by the phone and just pay a few rupees a day and any educated fool can do the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Teacher, and other synonyms. Find out the teacher. They have got so many synonyms.

Hari-śauri: Teacher. "Educator, instructor, preceptor, master, tutor, coach, schoolmaster, schoolmistress, schoolmarm, pedagogue."

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue, yes, this word.

Hari-śauri: Pedagogy, how do you pronounce this word? Pedagogue.

Prabhupāda: This word, now you see what is the pedagogue in dictionary. Pedigree. Pedagogue-pedagogue or predagogue?

Hari-śauri: Pedagogue. Here we are. "Pedagogue: schoolmaster, teacher." That's all he gives. "Pedagogy: science of teaching."

Bhagavān: "Employing pedantry." Look up pedantry. It says, "Usually derogatory."

Hari-śauri: Oh, "Pedant—one who overrates booklearning or technical knowledge or insists on strict adherence to formal rules. One always possessed by theory doctrinaire(?)."

Prabhupāda: Yes, this word.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedānta. We are, as spirit soul, being part and parcel of the Supreme, ānanda is our goal, ānanda, blissfulness. But that blissfulness, you cannot get simply by understanding sat-cit. You must come to the platform of ānanda. That is Kṛṣṇa. So because these so-called jñānīs, they do not get ānanda, they do not have the entrance into the ānanda platform, they come to this material ānanda, this material pleasure. Therefore they take to this hospitality or opening a school or philanthropic work, another type of this material pleasure. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya recommended:

bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ

bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate

prāpte sannihite kāle na hi

na hi rakṣati dukṛn kāraṇe

Your simply this grammatical jugglery of words will not help you. Bhaja govindam. Therefore we, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. We, our principle is to worship Govinda the ādi-puruṣa, tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So without coming to that stage, perfection is not complete. Partial, the sac-cid-ānanda, the brahma-anubhūti is partial, sat. "I am not matter. I am not destructible. I am eternal." This is sat.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Atreya Ṛṣi recommending another house.

Nandarāṇī: Yes, we actually want two places because when Iranian businessmen come, we cannot just show them the altar and say, "Here is our program." It must be very careful. And yet when the Indians come we want to have Deities, we want to have kīrtana. So we are trying to do two things in one house and it is very difficult. So he wants a separate place for a restaurant, for Deities, for my Gurukula school, a big room for my classroom, and then a separate home when we have some sophisticated guest we can bring them for dinner. But then we have many Indians, we can bring them for Deities. The Indians, they think this is a temple, but because there are no Deities, then they are not inclined to come. They want to see the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Indians, they want Deity.

Nandarāṇī: They want to see the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Temple means Deity, there must be Deity.

Nandarāṇī: So these Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities, we should simply keep until some future time when we might be able to worship Them?

Prabhupāda: No, if you can, in a separate house, if you can follow the principles, you can install.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Pleasure... So that is child. The child also feels pleasure with something. But it is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of view. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day. But the father does not allow him. If you leave, let the child seeks his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian, let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. There is no need of training, schooling, colleges. There is no need. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced, by force she used to... My father was lenient and my mother kept a special man, yamadhara(?), that, "Your duty is to take him by force to the school." Yes. My father, my mother would complain that "Your boy did not go to school." "Oh, he did not go to school?" And I was sure he was very affectionate. "Why?" "No, I shall go tomorrow." Then father, "All right, he will go tomorrow, that's all right." But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical. My mother forced me. So I thought, "It is pleasure. Why shall I go to school? Let me play whole day." But it is the duty of the guardian to see that this is not pleasure, this is spoiling. A child may think something pleasure, but the guardian should not think that this is pleasure. This is spoiling him.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Just like they land an airplane.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got all plans and direction, and altitude, latitude, which direction is going on(?) in front of the pilot. So everything is there. In what position the plane is there, how high it is and how low it will be, where it is, everything. On that direction they can fly. Otherwise, what they can see with the eyes? At most ten miles, and it is running at six hundred miles? What ten miles will do them? So śāstra-cakṣuṣā. Authoritative literature should be the eyes, not these blunt eyes. What is the value of these eyes? Here is authority: nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. You should go to the school, colleges, and from Bhagavad-gītā give them rascal knowledge. The whole world is in darkness, and these rascals are guiding them. You have tasted the baḍā? Nim baḍā?

Pradyumna: This morning.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Did you like it?

Parivrājakācārya: It tasted very healthy.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You have no hand on the administration of the nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law. You cannot say, "Although I have infected the smallpox disease, I'll not suffer." No, you have to suffer. Or you have to die of that disease. You cannot check it. So they do not know how nature is going. Declaring independence. That is foolishness. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). And people are kept in ignorance. There is no school, no college, no institution to give instructions about this science. This is the position of modern civilization. People are kept in ignorance. They got the chance of human body to understand the value of life, but they are not given education by the father, by the guardian, by the king, by the guru. Nobody is giving. Therefore śāstra says you should not become a guru, you should not become a father, you should not become a king unless you are able to save him from these laws of nature, repetition of birth and death. Then you should not become. It's the duty of the guardians to give education to the dependents about the spiritual knowledge. But who is doing that? We are trying our bit because we are ordered by superior that "You do it." So we are trying as far as possible, that's all.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mr. Sahani: But we don't want to go and fight like Arjuna, go out and kill people.

Prabhupāda: Why? If Kṛṣṇa orders, you must. Why don't you like? That is your misfortune. What Kṛṣṇa's... Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. That is following. You like or may not like. Arjuna did not like to fight. That's a fact. Therefore whole Bhagavad-gītā is spoken to him. Arjuna did not like fight. But when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he said, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). You cannot give your verdict. What Kṛṣṇa says, you have to do it. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You like or don't like, that doesn't matter. Just like a child. He likes or not likes, but what the parent says, he has to do. That is his success. If the child says, "Father, I don't like to go to school," will the father agree? "No, you must go to school." And if he agrees, that is his benefit. Our liking, not liking, has no value. What Kṛṣṇa likes, we have to do it. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), that is bhakti. Bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śīlanam. You have to act which is favorable to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. You cannot make you choice. What Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is bhakti. (break) What is their reason?

Mrs. Sahani: Well, they were not even Kṛṣṇa conscious people.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Mrs. Sahani: Kauravas.

Prabhupāda: Kaurava, oh. Yes. No, not that they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they may be. That's all right. My business is to execute what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. That is bhakti.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Devotees are devotees. If you want to preach to the public, what impression they'll have? Some of our documentary film, just like we are feeding the poor, or we are working, making such things, that may be favorable. Say we're doing something in America, the Indians may appreciate, or we are doing something in India. That's all right. There is little effect of course, but not very much.

Jñānagamya: But if we make a film to go in the movie houses all over the world, the big movie houses, not just for little schools or little groups, not just for the temple.

Prabhupāda: What kind of film?

Jñānagamya: A film that would show activities of devotees. And have some story...

Prabhupāda: But you said they do not like it.

Jñānagamya: No, I never said they do not like it.

Prabhupāda: You said that sense gratification. How they'll appreciate?

Jñānagamya: They will appreciate, it is something new, it is very different, it is very beautiful and attractive.

Prabhupāda: Of course, I cannot understand. What is the favorable condition of film?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jñānagamya prabhu is interested in making a very big film.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: Kṛṣṇa was speaking to Arjuna, and Arjuna had real intelligence, but nowadays if someone tries to consider Kṛṣṇa's instructions and deliberate fully and make some decision, he always makes the wrong decision.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore he has to accept spiritual master to guide him. Just like simply by reading books you do not become educated. You go to school and read before the teacher. Then you'll understand. You cannot become a medical man by purchasing books from the market and reading at home. You must go to the medical college. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Not only reading, but you go to the person who is actually realized. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Everything is there. You cannot understand individually. That is not possible. If you are extraordinarily intelligent, you can do that. That is exception. But ordinarily it is not possible. Therefore the spiritual master is there. He'll guide you. What is that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is watermelon, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are giving all of them?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's from our garden(?).

Prabhupāda: Give me one piece. For any intelligent man, Bhagavad-gītā is perfect knowledge. There is no doubt about it. But unfortunately most men are rascals. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is perfect instruction. There is no doubt about it. How can I deny? God is speaking personally.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: There are Hindus?

Guest: Oh, yes. Most of the business shops are controlled by Hindus. Also in the school, as well, there are lots of teachers, and education is managed by Hindus. But they are for years... (break) ...for hundreds and hundreds of years. You make this tour around the world once a year or twice a year.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've gone round the world fifteen times within ten years. Naturally more than once in a year. And we have got branches all over the world.

Guest: I think the temples are increasing, particularly in Germany, England, and I suppose in America as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in America we have got forty branches. Our philosophy is simple. We educate people to understand that there is God. This is a godless civilization. So we say that there is God. Try to understand, and love Him, that's all. This is our philosophy. Then you'll be happy. And so long you do not love God, you simply love dog, you'll never be happy. That is our philosophy.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...parents will encourage. They have no interest even.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: At the school level, something can be done.

Prabhupāda: The authorities will not allow. School authorities, if you say that you want whole Gītā, (?) they will not. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. All bad. And even one is interested, he is interested in something bogus. Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have manufactured a style of religious principle. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ. And all unfortunate.

Indian man: Yesterday I met one life member who belongs to a very reputed family in Bombay who has donated about fifteen acres of land to Swami Cinmayananda on the Vehar Lake side. Now he has become our patron member yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Behar Lake?

Indian man: Vehar Lake. I think we have gone to see that big temple nearby. So this family has got about thirty, forty acres of land on (indistinct) the side. Very beautiful site.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...that to know God there is no necessity of education.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: But they don't go too long, because in Ahmedabad they have started one Gujarat, one Bhāgavata-hṛdaya-pīṭha.(?) Just outside Ahmedabad. And he had a plan to build a whole huge temple and dharmaśālās and schools, gurukulas. That Krishna Shankara Shastri, that poor fellow, he started something, and now he has scarcity, he cannot find funds to finish his project. So the project is lying idle for almost two years. They collected sixty, seventy lakhs initially, but then...

Prabhupāda: Sixty seventy lakhs? And he squandered it?

Yaśomatīnandana: No. He has got land and he has got some buildings, but now he has no funds to go further. And there also no local people give. All he collected in London and Africa from the Gujaratis. (break) ...in becoming trustees and managing the things, but they will not give any money.

Prabhupāda: So bring some sitting place.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: He can do, Svarūpa. He can take training, and he can do. And then, gradually, others will join.

Jayapatākā: I think all the children, they could become brahmacārīs. If the parents would be agreeable, they could become brahmacārīs and attend morning some class, then go to school. In this way the whole village could be made Kṛṣṇa conscious at least by chanting and...

Prabhupāda: Chanting is the main thing. Chanting and distributing prasādam.

Jayapatākā: If we get prasādam, then... I think that they all contribute some grain. They are very poor agricultural people, but there's no theft there. I asked. There's one man who has three acres. Three bighās of land he's giving. So they just grow their rice there and...

Prabhupāda: You can ask that instead of making paraṭā, a light khicuḍi in the morning. That is...

Hari-śauri: Instead of that sabji and everything.

Prabhupāda: No, sabji can make.

Jayapatākā: Khicuḍi instead of paraṭā?

Prabhupāda: So khicuḍi will be easy, like...

Hari-śauri: You want some khicuḍi and the potato?

Prabhupāda: Put in the khicuḍi and tomato. Like in the morning.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They were so popular, the report was that the readers of Gauḍīya were only hankering after that Bhagavāner Kathā, and after reading that they will throw away. Other articles, they were not interested.

Jayapatākā: So always your writing, people were attracted by.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Even my teachers were attracted in school days.

Jayapatākā: Recently that..., some professor said that you are the veritable incarnation of Vyāsadeva for Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some have said like that. In my matriculation class I wrote some essay and I got out of 100, 85 marks. But the teacher came to the class, "Who has written this?" So I stood up, and he thanked me, "Yes, it is very nice." He especially came to thank me for that essay.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Enclose this quote.

Maṇihāra: "ISKCON has generated many community farms like New Vrindaban, providing the ideal atmosphere of a busy, yet peaceful village, fully devoted to spiritual progress. Swami Prabhupāda has also established the first Kṛṣṇa conscious gurukula in the West, a primary school in Dallas, Texas, for one hundred boys and girls between the ages of five and fifteen. Soon after its success, many such gurukulas have sprung up all over the world. Aside from teaching reading, writing, mathematics, geography, etc., the gurukula teaches the child how to cultivate God consciousness. Once a year members of ISKCON journey to the Society's international headquarters at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, ninety miles north of Calcutta, and the birthplace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the site of a ten crore rupees international Vedic village comprised of community farming projects, high-class gurukula school, free medicinal facilities, and handloom weaving center. An institute of Vedic studies is proposed to be established at this site. Other major ISKCON centers in India are in Vṛndāvana, Bombay, and Kurukṣetra, the site of a three-crore rupee international Sanskrit university. This project will be sponsored by Alfred Ford, a nephew of Henry Ford. This will be the cultural..."

Prabhupāda: Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side. So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side. So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.

Maṇihāra: "This will be a cultural gateway of India for the people of the world. Hyderabad is the South Indian headquarters for ISKCON in India. The magnificent Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Madana-mohana temple at Nampally Station Road, inaugurated by Swami Prabhupāda, will serve as a center of the cultural, spiritual, educational and social activities given to uplift the lives of people here. According to Śrī Mahāṁśa Swami, the president of the Society here, the devotees will hold seminars in colleges, factories, business centers, universities, schools, etc., to teach the techniques of spiritualizing the day-to-day life. Deity worship accompanied by the constant chanting of the holy names will be a special feature at the center. Besides, there will be daily classes in Sanskrit, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam, and the Upaniṣads. There will be a Vedic library consisting of Swami Prabhupāda's books and various books on comparative study of religion. A cassette library will be a special feature here. Devotees will travel into towns and villages and do saṅkīrtana for the uplift of the masses. ISKCON Hyderabad is introducing for the first time in South India its major 600 acre community farming project, 40 kilometers from Hyderabad, to benefit about 20,000 villages. Besides regular free nutritional food distribution program, ISKCON is also planning to set up a model high-yielding 600-cow dairy farm, handloom centers, nature-cure hospital, and gurukula school project. Swami Prabhupāda's most substantial contribution, however, is to be found in his books, a veritable storehouse of knowledge and wisdom. He has written more than 50 books so far, explaining the principles of Kṛṣṇa or God consciousness in a logical, practical, and scientific way. Through his books people are understanding the eternal wisdom of the ancient Indian scriptures. That ISKCON has made a significant contribution to the intellectual, cultural, and spiritual life of contemporary man is obvious from the fact that people of all ages and..."

Prabhupāda: A very important article.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And when he first came to me he expressed that "I was searching this institution. Now I'll join." And he was getting at that time four hundred dollars?

Gargamuni: Yes. A school teacher.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he was paying everything almost, keeping little money. And then he brought him.

Hari-śauri: I have a picture of you with your hair. I'll show you. I have a picture of Gargamuni Swami when he still had hair and karmī clothes.

Gargamuni: "Shakespearean locks." Prabhupāda used to call me that.

Hari-śauri: Hair in this picture's a bit cropped up, but you had a bead bag then.

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, then that was later.

Prabhupāda: You were selling Back to Godhead on the street?

Gargamuni: Yes, in the pushcart.

Room Conversation -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: It should not come on your finger if you touch it. That black thing.

Prabhupāda: Not even you cannot see black, any black spots. Then it is clean. Otherwise not clean. If there's a single black spot, it is not clean. You can see from this poor class of men, how their utensils are cleansed. Before taking water the jug, the waterpot... You'll like to drink water. In our school days there were sweeper, they were a different quarter. So you like to sit down. So clean. The sweeper, cleansing the toilet, bangi. But when you come to his house, living quarter, oh, it is so clean. The bed, the room, the utensils. And they also will take twice, thrice bath, then they will eat. That is a Hindu culture. Even the sweeper class, lowest class. And I have seen one sweeper class who were in Allahabad, regularly worshiping Deity. Very nice worship.

Room Conversation with Pandita from Tirupati and Government Minister -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) That's nice.

Paṇḍita: So until the father makes one (indistinct) of Śrī Vaiṣṇava... And the śaraṇāgati makes them assured of mukti. So kṛta-kṛtya. Now, the later part of life, (Sanskrit). (Hindi)... of Rāmānuja school. This Rāmānuja school has been fortified by his works, so many works on Vedānta, like (Sanskrit names of books) These are all the major Vedānta works he has composed. All these works I have sat before a guru and studied for eight years at Śrī Raṅgam. My ācārya has been a great scholar in Vedānta and tarka, who was lecturer in...

Prabhupāda: I know, Rāmānuja sampradāya, they are very learned scholars. I know that.

Paṇḍita: And they are very particular about ācaraṇas also, more than...

Prabhupāda: Sadācāra.

Paṇḍita: Ha. Sadācāra.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) ...knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing. (sound coming on and off, tape recorder faulty.) So our this movement is successful... On account of this movement... (break) ...learned scholars and those who are inquisitive, advanced... (break)... He Maharishi Mahesh Yogi says that this is material. If you perform this meditation, transcendental meditation, you will be materially benefited. That is not spiritual meditation.

Interviewer: You have said that India should take this movement seriously.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Yeah, he says that here, because of their own ignorance then they find fault. He goes on: "From this misunderstanding came fear then hatred and from hatred grew injustices and often atrocities. An injustice is now being perpetrated through ignorance. Are atrocities far off? This may sound like an overstatement, but for those who say, 'It can't happen here,' it already has, such as to the American Indians and to our people (of) Japanese descendant. The time to stop such action is at the beginning, now. The way to stop it is to replace ignorance with knowledge, and hatred with understanding. Sometimes people stand off at a distance and look at another person's belief and laugh at them or fear them. But as they get closer, they may come to understand how similar the observer's beliefs may be to their own beliefs. As a scientist, a psychologist, I have tried to learn about and understand the Hare Kṛṣṇa people. For nearly a year I have spent hours each week, talking with, reading about, and testing members of the movement. I have been to their temples in this country and in Europe. I have eaten in their homes and I have been to their children's schools. What I have found is a group of people trying to find God and live as closely to the way that He would like them to live. There is no place in their lives for immorality, for cruelty to other people or animals, for artificial stimulants or harmful chemicals such as alcohol, drugs, or tobacco. At first glance their approach to God may seem alien to us with their different dress, the incense, and the many statues and their unique ceremonies, but a closer look reveals similarities to our religious practices that are just the same. In Catholicism we find the holy water, chanting on the rosary, statues of saints and incense. And in Judaism we find the blowing of the shofar."

Prabhupāda: And they say, the cow's urine, they are forcing to eat. (laughter) (Bengali) ...that they are forcing the devotees to drink cow's urine. (laughter) These are the charges: brainwash, mind control, forcing cow's urine to drink. (laughter) How clever they are to find out some fictitious faults.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Potato pakorā.

Prabhupāda: Oh, hm. (break) ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanāgarī there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That was little chance also, understanding Hindi. And I was maybe 7, 6 or 7 years old, that's all. Then somebody made at Saranpur. That was of course not in the school. Then in our college there were many up-country (?) class friends, Scottish Churches College. One of them was that Grnanatha (?), he came here, (Hindi).

Devotee (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: He was bigger (?) in the police court M.A., B.A... Now, I repeatedly told him that "You stay here and write Hindi."

Devotee (2): He didn't stay here?

Prabhupāda: He stayed for one week or 15 days.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is...

Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up: "I shall play all day." He likes to play but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."

Hari-śauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country, he's indoctrinated.

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: Prabhupāda means that according to the nature, you engage them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. "You can do this? All right, do it. Why you should be forced to learn Sanskrit? Not necessary. Not necessary."

Dhanurdhara: What of a boy who does the chanting nicely and the kīrtana nicely but doesn't do the school work nicely?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dhanurdhara: What of a boy who does the japa very nicely and...

Prabhupāda: Well, japa... Whether his father is doing japa nicely, that is also doubtful. What to speak of children? Japa, children cannot... That should not be taken very seriously. Whatever he can do, that's all right. We should enforce, we should... But not that if he does not immediately, he should be rejected. No.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: This is what (indistinct) in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Sixth Canto. Hm?

Devotees: Sixth.

Prabhupāda: First verse.

Devotee: (enters) There is one gentleman, Mr. Saxena, he is retired inspector of schools from Rajasthan.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he has come?

Devotee: Yes, shall I call him?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But first thing is that why do you want immediately effect? That is foolishness. The effect will be there. Therefore it is called dhairya. Utsāhād dhairyāt. Dhairya means patience. You act God acting with patience. The result will be niścaya. The result will be there. These things are required. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. So why you should have a foolish person—"Now I come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have become immediately everything. Give up everything?" Why do you think like this? The same example: The girl is married, now it is sure that she'll have child. Wait. Niścaya. When there is husband and wife there will be child. There is no doubt about it, but wait. Why do you expect immediately child on the day of marriage. This is foolishness. So you should answer these rascals like that. "You cannot expect immediately. But we are on the path. We have just entered." One enters into the school. Does it mean in one year or six months he becomes MA? He has to wait. But he has entered the school. There is expectation of his passing MA examination. But one who has not entered school, loitering in the street, he has no... He's hopeless. But this man has hope. Wait. The same example: If one girl is not married, then where is the question of child? Everything has to wait. Therefore it is said, utsāhād dhairyāt. One should have proper enthusiasm and patience. That is wanted. How one foolishly expects the result immediately? You sow the seed; you water it; it grows; then it becomes big tree; then pick the fruit; then eat. Immediately you cannot expect. Immediately you have got. As soon as you get the seed, you have got the thing, undoubtedly. But you must give time the seed to fructify. That required.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Make very nice palatable prasādam. We shall spend for that. Why miserly? There is no need of miserly. You are going to earn money by agricultural produce, so how the money will be utilized? It will be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. By prasādam, by chanting, by drama, somehow or other bring them. That is our mission. Congregational chanting. Always festival, and we shall spend for that. Immediately arrange. If there is scarcity of money, I shall pay, but from... Bring them somehow or other. Tomorrow I want to see at least 500 men. Make arrangement like that. I came here to see that, not to sit down in a room peacefully. So there also we shall inform the meeting that we want to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement town to town, village to village, by attracting them with musical demonstration of saṅkīrtana, dramatic play, movie, prasādam. Somehow or other they should come to the temple, to the pandal and congregationally chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, hear Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. For this purpose, whatever expenditure is required, that you should collect and spend. This is the scheme of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You must come here, question, understand, and vigorous propaganda should be inaugurated town to town, village to village. Those who are educated, to them distribution of literature. The school, college, library, institution, university, by scholarly presentation. That is wanted.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Find out this verse.

Indian man: When the disciple is ready, the master comes. When the disciple is ready the master appears, comes, comes. It is not that the disciple has to search for the master. The master is also to search after the disciples.

Prabhupāda: Well, it is just like there is a school. The school is also advertising that you come here, you will get education. And one who is in need of education, he is also trying to come to school. So the school must be bona fide and the student must be bona fide. Then things will come at. If the school is bogus, then what the student will learn? They will not learn.

Girirāja: Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu kāmo 'smi bharatarṣabha.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that's it. What does that mean?

Girirāja: "I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles."

Prabhupāda: There is good sex life and bad sex life. One who does not know what is good sex life, what is bad sex life, he's a rascal. Here you have to indulge in sex life which is not against the religious principles. But you must know what is religious and what is irreligious. If you do not know, you are rascal. There are two kinds of sex life. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, "Sex life which is not against the religious principles, that I am." So God is good. So sex life which is not against the religious principles, that is good sex life. Otherwise, it is bad.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Indian lady: In our schools and college...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She'll understand Bengali. (Bengali) That explains. (Bengali)

Indian lady: Why don't they teach this in our schools and colleges?

Prabhupāda: Because they won't take it. They'll take this unauthorized interpretation.

Indian lady: I remember, I come from Sindh, and before partition, we were taught all these religious books in our school. But now...

Prabhupāda: Simply reading will not do. You have to learn from the right person.

Indian lady: By reading, reading, we learn.

Prabhupāda: No, if you read as it is, then you will be benefited. But if you read these rubbish commentaries, then (speaks to another man) You inquired about that land? He wants to avoid the land.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: Śrīla Prabhupāda there is another request from Mrs. (indistinct) and she would like to invite you and other devotees to show the film and other things and they can arrange a good (indistinct) over there. (indistinct) And they have got a very good school over there. So anytime can be given within this or after going to Kumbha-mela?

Prabhupāda: After it would be (indistinct).

Indian man: During the 7th of January or...

Prabhupāda: I may be going away by the 3lst. And there visit the Kumbha-mela. (everyone talking at once)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Devotees will be going there starting from the 5th by installments.

Indian man: We can keep it up till 20th, after 20th of January.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kumbha-mela will be over...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For the 24th I thought.

Indian man: 24th, last weekend.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our only request is that you read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You'll be benefited. And if you interpret whimsically, then you'll rot, spoil. There is no benefit by eating spoiled foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa says... Jaya. Jaya. Prasāda, liye.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: Now Girirāja is going about with this school work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the building is not yet sanctioned. You have seen inside temple?

Indian man: Yes. I come here once a week. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is... Of course, I gave him the idea. But Saurab's design. He's Dutch. He's Dutch boy. The Vṛndāvana is also his.

Indian man: How is the Kurukṣetra going?

Prabhupāda: Kurukṣetra, the government has not yet decided to give us land.

Indian man: The Hyderabad Gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Hyderabad land we have got.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have learned it.

Indian man: No, no. Fashion. Now one thing is they can hold off the rich people in India. That is not now, but about, put it back to 1944-45, during the war time. British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common. This is the conception of civilization amongst the Marwaris and the Gujaratis of the richer class. Previously it used to be, as they say of ancient India, that if one did not speak Sanskrit he was supposed to be uncivilized. So now that has come out...

Prabhupāda: In our childhood, my father's generation, in Calcutta, if a gentleman does not keep a prostitute extra, he is not a respectable man.