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Sannyasa (Conversations, 1977)

Expressions researched:
"sannyasa" |"sannyasas" |"sannyasi" |"sannyasi's" |"sannyasis"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Swami means who is the controller of the senses.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Master of the senses.

Prabhupāda: Senses. So instead of swami, he is servant of his senses, and he is preaching as swami. These swamis go to the foreign countries. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.

Yogi Amrit Desai: They have vairāgya to his senses, of the senses.

Prabhupāda: A sannyāsī... A sannyāsī means he has ceased all material desire. There is no material desire. And the concentrated material enjoyment is sex. So if one could not control his sex life, then how he is swami? He's cheater.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is asat. He doesn't... We say that strī-saṅgī, to associate with woman without marriage, we say, "Don't do this," but Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, either illicit or legal, it is asat.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Either married or unmarried, it is not.

Prabhupāda: It is asat. Therefore, when He was twenty-four years' age, He gave up His young..., home, wife. He became a sannyāsī, practically. And He was very, very strict to talk with woman. No woman could come before Him to offer respect. Little from far off. But His one of the personal associates, he simply desired. Immediately he was rejected, Choṭa Haridāsa.

Yogi Amrit Desai: I didn't understand. His personal associate...

Prabhupāda: He had His personal associate. His name was Choṭa Haridāsa. He looked upon one woman with lusty desires.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Oh, I see. He looked upon a woman with a lusty desire, and he allowed it...

Prabhupāda: He immediately rejected him from His association.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Really?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And He was so strict... This man, being hopeless that he'll not be able to associate with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he committed suicide.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Really?

Prabhupāda: And when He learned that he has committed suicide, He did not regret. "Yes, this is the just punishment." You see how much strictly. (break) And He said, asat saṅga. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgaḥ. He said that.

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Trivikrama Mahārāja?

Hari-śauri: I think he's rather keen on working in Southeast Asia still.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He spoke to me this morning. He has to go back for some time to Southeast Asia, but he's willing to stay in India and travel between centers. He's a very nice sannyāsī, and I think it would be a very good idea.

Prabhupāda: Call him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is giving a class right now, but he cannot go... He told me that he has to go to Southeast Asia first because he has books and everything.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has writing... That machine... I can see the manuscript. In this way, arrangement make.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. We just printed two books in Oriya, Topmost Yoga and one more. One more.

Prabhupāda: He likes Oriya language.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Who? Gaura-Govinda Swami? He is very sincere devotee.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, undoubtedly.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very sincere.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa sent him. He... In Vṛndāvana, he said that "Please give me shelter." I thought that "There are so many Indian comes and go." So when he insisted, "All right, you stay."

Hari-śauri: Yeah. He took sannyāsa at the opening of the temple. I remember that.

Prabhupāda: He's a good boy.

Hari-śauri: He's stuck it out for a long time in Orissa. He's been there a long time, by himself a lot of the time too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He's organizing nicely.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very sincere. He follows all the regulations very rigidly. He gets up in the morning, ideal example.

Jagadīśa: He understands the philosophy quite well.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he is educated. He is B.Sc. He knows Hindi also.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why you go beg? Give something. In Berkeley University, one Indian student, "Swamiji, what this hari-kīrtana will do? We require now technology." So I replied, "Yes, you have come to beg here. I have come to give something. I am not a beggar like you." So we are working... Of course, we are Indian, we are poor. That is another thing. But I never went to beg something from them. I never asked them any money. I never asked them. They give me money because they understand that I am giving something. Do you know how we are selling our books? Daily, five, six lakhs rupees collected. They are getting the money. I have given them the knowledge. (aside:) Bring that telegram. In one week how many books we have sold? Because they're hankering after this knowledge. This is Indian culture, or some dancing party goes, that is Indian culture?

D. D. Desai: Presently you are...

Prabhupāda: I am not imitating them. Of course, all credit to Vivekananda. But Vivekananda learned something from them: how to eat meat. And introduced amongst the sannyāsīs that "There is no harm in eating meat." So Vivekananda learned something from them. And I have gone to—"Forget meat-eating." That is the difference. These boys, these young boys... Just see how they have become Vaiṣṇava.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become gṛhastha? I was gṛhastha, pākā caliber gṛhastha. My Guru Mahārāja was brahmacārī, This is ever... Just see his character. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was gṛhastha, but when He took sannyāsa: "Oh, I am now..." For sober person. That is wanted. That is ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura married twice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that's all. Other things, of course, are circumstantially favorable, either a gṛhastha, brahmacārī or vānaprastha or sannyāsa. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya (CC Madhya 8.128). You must know the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That makes you guru, not this dress. So what you are thinking of American program? Do it seriously. Balavanta is very expert. And all of you are expert. And do it seriously and systematically, not change the position, this side and this, change. That's not good. That makes fickle. Strength of mind wanted.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: Most of the women, or at least many of the women in our society, have neither father, husband or sons.

Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be... Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice... They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many gṛhastha devotees. You have got children. Pradyumna has got child. Gopāla has... Live with husband, wife. There is no restriction for husband and wife. But what is this nonsense that you take sannyāsa and make relation with...? This should be completely stopped. And in our, this campus, actually those who are eager to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should live, nobody else.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let them chant, dance, and take prasāda, go away. That's all. No philosophy. Everyone will come. Chant, dance, and take prasādam. And we shall work hard for this maintaining the establishment. We are recognized beggars. We can beg. Where is anxiety? If we go to a rich man, that "I want some money for this purpose," they will pay. Where is the question of scarcity of money? You cannot say there is no money. A sannyāsī can go anywhere: "Give me some money. I want to do this." They are meant for begging. And in India still... Why India? Everywhere. I am speaking of India. Still now, although India is so poverty-stricken and materialized, if a sannyāsī goes to beg something, nobody will refuse. Nobody will refuse, especially in the village. They'll never refuse. "Baba, (Hindi)." He'll give. Actually our āśramas are maintained by begging mūrti. Mūrti... You... Hundred houses, hundred mūrti. Then you can...

Mr. Asnani: Mūrti means they're so much helpful of...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Mr. Asnani: And in countryside they consider, "Grace of God is our culture." In villages...

Prabhupāda: In villages no sannyāsī starves. As soon as there is a sannyāsī in the village, so many villagers, "Baba, aiye, prasāda paiye. (Hindi)" Daily. Still in Punjab, any sannyāsī goes, he gets invitation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was in tīrtha... That is the system.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have got a strong body, and I have got very faithful wife. My children are so obedient and working. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu. And so I am safe." Ātmā sainya asatsu. Asatsu means... (Hindi). And still, pramatto tasya nidhanam. He knows that "These soldiers will be slaughtered in this battle, struggle for existence." Paśyann api na paśyati: "Although he knows, still, he is blind."

dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv
ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api
pramatto teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ
paśyann api na paśyati
(SB 2.1.4)

(Hindi with guests) (aside:) There is some cardamom? (break) Everyone is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa's service—the gṛhastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī. That is external. And actual everyone is sannyāsī, and they have no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa, if they are actually seriously doing. More than sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). He is yogi, sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma. Nothing for personal interest. Then you'll be successful.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa's service—the gṛhastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī. That is external. And actual everyone is sannyāsī, and they have no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa, if they are actually seriously doing. More than sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). He is yogi, sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma. Nothing for personal interest. Then you'll be successful.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking that especially right now, this time, is the prime time for preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let as many sannyāsīs as possible. Sannyāsī, brahmacārī or gṛhastha, it doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: Cannot possibly cover all the territory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's so much engagement in America right now.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, I think Brahmānanda should be engaged with some assistant or some superior. Two. He should not be alone. That is the best solution.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: No one's giving engagements in New York. Now I have two people in L.A. beginning, Jagannath Sūta.

Prabhupāda: Then this kīrtana... This is kīrtana, speaking. Whatever little fault is there, that will be rectified.

Rāmeśvara: He'll like it too. Coming into America to help fight the demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately do that. This is conclusion. Engage him in preaching, and this is the opportunity. You said that "We require so many." Similarly, Madhudviṣa can be engaged also in that way.

Rāmeśvara: Wow. I was thinking... I wrote him a letter. He was very happy to receive it. He posted it in the restaurant. I invited him to come to Los Angeles. I was encouraging him.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking him from the very beginning, that he come.

Rāmeśvara: If he doesn't feel comfortable coming all the way to India, maybe I can invite him to Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have sent him telegram, Madhudviṣa. I have sent him telegram that "You come."

Rāmeśvara: He may be too entangled to come right away.

Prabhupāda: What is that entanglement?

Rāmeśvara: Well, he is not following all our principles.

Trivikrama: Women.

Rāmeśvara: He's got one woman friend.

Jagadīśa: Govinda dāsī says that he doesn't want to come to India.

Rāmeśvara: He thinks it's too austere. He needs something more gradual.

Hari-śauri: He never liked India.

Rāmeśvara: But this is a good idea.

Prabhupāda: Then engage them.

Rāmeśvara: If he's willing, he could give speaking engagements. I tell you, America is just wide open.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why not take this... Suppose he is attracted by some woman. Let him dress like a gentleman and keep with the woman as husband and wife and preach. What is the wrong there? Whatever is done, you close up that chapter. Now you become a householder. There is no harm. And live as a gentleman householder and preach. But don't play duplicity in the dress of sannyāsī to keep private relations. That is not good. That is duplicity. Better openly become a respectable householder and serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main thing, either in this dress or that dress. So if you cannot keep yourself sincerely as a sannyāsī, then get yourself married. But you cannot keep the girl as friend. That is also not good.

Jagadīśa: But for Brahmānanda, he may remain sannyāsī? Brahmānanda?

Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But we say that "Don't be hypocrite." That's all. If he thinks now he'll be able to continue as a sannyāsī, he'll not fall down, he'll be careful, let him continue. That will depend on his sincerity. But I say that if you cannot remain as a sannyāsī, get yourself married, live like a gentleman and serve Kṛṣṇa. Why should you give up Kṛṣṇa's service? That is my point. As you want to live, any way, comfortably, do it. We never condemned gṛhasthas. If sannyāsa is not suitable for you, you remain as a gṛhastha. What is the wrong there?

Jagadīśa: I'm going to call him this evening.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: Brahmānanda.

Jagadīśa: To give him direction.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's coming. Kīrtanānanda has gone.

Rāmeśvara: Kīrtanānanda has gone, but now they are a little confused what should be done next. They originally... The plan was that he was going to come here to be your secretary. So now they need some new instruction. So we thought Jagadīśa could call and invite him to come to America to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is better. That is better. To write some letters here, that is not so important. But if he can preach and he... At least, we are expecting... He's old sannyāsī. He knows how to preach. Let him do that.

Jagadīśa: So I'll suggest that he goes straight to America instead of coming here.

Prabhupāda: If he's coming here, let him come. We shall talk together. There is no secrecy.

Jagadīśa: I'll leave it up to him, as he prefers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's coming, don't stop him. That is...

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Government means a set of rascals. But practical point of view the woman wants equal right. Equal rights they enjoy, and the woman becomes pregnant, and he goes away, the boy. And she has to kill the child or beg from the government. This is her freedom. And still, equal rights. Where equal right? The boy has gone away. You also go away? No. You'll have to carry the child. To get freedom you have to kill or you have to beg. And still she thinks, "I am free."

Dr. Patel: Such experience (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Rather we are giving freedom, that "Never mind you have got illegitimate son. Come here. Live with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Trivikrama: And by teaching them to be chaste...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And teaching "Don't do it again." That's all. We are giving. And they are happy. My Godbrothers criticize that "You keep women in the temple." I tell them, "I cannot reject."

Dr. Patel: I was also thinking like that, today, I mean, presence I said, that Vaiṣṇavas keep woman...

Prabhupāda: It is different situation. I cannot reject anyone.

Dr. Patel: No, that's right. You are right. But this is a great affecting the boys down here. After all...

Prabhupāda: But they are taught, "Don't be misled." But if they cannot, that (indistinct). I cannot deny. I cannot deny. I cannot say that "You are woman. You are condemned." I cannot.

Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to keep women away from...

Prabhupāda: That is personally as a sannyāsī, not that... He never said that women should be refused Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: No. Nobody has said so. But they should not mix.

Prabhupāda: Here in the Western country it is their custom to mix, intermingle freely. How can I stop it? I may stop in my temple, but they will do it outside. So it is impossible.

Jagadīśa: Nowadays even in the universities, they allow the free mixing of boys and girls in the same dormitories. In the same dormitories.

Prabhupāda: Same room.

Dr. Patel: In the same dormitories they live together you mean. Girls have no separate...

Jagadīśa: Oh, yes. Free mixing.

Trivikrama: Same showers even. Bathroom the same.

Dr. Patel: Oh, were...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa gives freedom. Striyo śūdras tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti parām. "Never mind. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa (BG 9.32). "Anyone. Come on. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take prasāda." This is my propaganda.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: In America, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if people become followers of a particular music group, then they take their message and their life-style very seriously. Just like when the people were following the Beatles, and then the Beatles became involved with meditation, so this made it very popular in America. If the group becomes... If the music group becomes popular, then whatever they do, everyone follows. So I am thinking that we can make this music group, Golden Avatar, very popular. Then everyone will find out that they believe in reincarnation and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everyone will follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, something "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" music must be there.

Rāmeśvara: Now, to make this group very popular, they have to have Western dress.

Prabhupāda: Never mind.

Rāmeśvara: That's no problem.

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: And they have to have long hair or wigs, or else they grow it. But somehow or other, they cannot be shaven-headed Hare Kṛṣṇaś.

Prabhupāda: Long hair is not... We should not do that.

Rāmeśvara: They have to have wigs then.

Prabhupāda: Why wigs?

Rāmeśvara: Because in America all the musicians have hair, because that way people become attracted to them.

Prabhupāda: No, we cannot take hair. That is not possible. We cannot become hippies.

Rāmeśvara: No, not hippies. So then, rather than growing their hair, they should wear wigs. Just like our book distributors do not grow their hair long, but they wear wigs.

Prabhupāda: But do you mean to say unless you have long hairs, they will not hear your song?

Rāmeśvara: Medium.

Prabhupāda: That's not. If they like your song, it doesn't matter whether you have long hairs or not.

Rāmeśvara: The main thing is they cannot be wearing śikhā and shaved head.

Prabhupāda: That must be there.

Rāmeśvara: But when they make public appearances, they have to be in disguise.

Prabhupāda: Make public to become gentlemen. Formerly they had no long hairs. They dressed like gentlemen. That we cannot do.

Rāmeśvara: So it doesn't have to be very long. But I don't think it will become popular unless they are in disguise, wearing Western clothes and a little bit of hair.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But formerly your father, grandfather, they had no long hair.

Rāmeśvara: No, they will not dress like hippie. They will dress nicely.

Prabhupāda: Then that is allowed. But we cannot imitate the hippies.

Rāmeśvara: No. I'm just saying that it is a little difficult if they wear their dhotī.

Prabhupāda: No, dhotī, I don't say. You have nice coat-pant. I don't say that you have to... I never said that. You have adopted it. (laughs) I never said that "You put on dhotī." But those who are sannyāsīs, brahmacārīs, their dress is different. But it doesn't require that one has to become a sannyāsī.

Hari-śauri: The wigs he's suggesting are just short ones, short hair wigs.

Rāmeśvara: Yeah. As long as it's not hippy, it is all right. It has to be attractive. Gentlemen. I have taken this record, "Change of Heart," to the biggest record companies in America, and they are very encouraging. They think that we have got a very wonderful message.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: These are weapons. That was the only endeavor, how legally he could occupy the bricks and stones of Gauḍīya Math. That's all. He had no other ambition. How to push on Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, how to push on Guru Mahārāja's... He had no such. It was simply show. But real purpose was how to occupy, how to take the whole property. Business.

Rāmeśvara: And none of the other Godbrothers had strong preaching spirits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They also, when they saw that "This man is legally taking everything. Gauḍīya sannyāsīs, we cannot go home. We must have some shelter." No spirit of pushing on.

Rāmeśvara: Even by your example they have not learned anything.

Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me. So I was... In 1936 or '35 in Bombay, after installation of Deity, so—I was gṛhastha—I helped them to collect some money. All my Godbrothers applauded and recommended to Guru Mahārāja that "Abhay Babu is so influential. Why he lives outside the temple? He can become the temple commander and manage this Bombay temple. Why he is living outside?" Mean "Guru Mahārāja may ask him." So I was... From this Allahabad I was going to Bombay. I had one small office there. So after hearing, he said, "It is better that he is living little away from your Matha. And when time will rise, he'll do everything. He hasn't got to be advised." I could not understand why he said like that. That means he was so kind that he expected that I shall do something. That was my asset, his blessing. And I was thinking that "His, this mission must be done very nicely." Although I was not capable to do anything, I was thinking like that. So desire was there and maybe blessing was there. Yes. There was no question of qualification.

Rāmeśvara: But still, after ten years the Gauḍīya Math still has not learned.

Prabhupāda: Hm? They cannot. They... Those who are intelligent, they are making something, Śrīdhara Mahārāja and others. But this man was envious, this Tīrtha Mahārāja, because... He advertised that he is the only favorite student of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. (laughs) But spiritually he was empty. Materially he was capable, how to manage things. But spiritually he was zero. That Prabhupāda also knew and everyone knows. He had no spiritual understanding. Materially he helped Guru Mahārāja how to organize. Therefore he liked him, that "This man is expert manager."

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Rāmeśvara: So the next thing is the entire year, the ratings for the whole year. So number one for zones is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa-$1,000,000 for the whole year. Number two was the area that I have: Los Angeles, Denver and San Diego-$762,000. Number three is Balavanta-$476,000. And number four was the other half of the West Coast-$464,000. You can see that if you put the West Coast as one it would have been $1,200,000 to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's $1,000,000. But anyway, it's been divided, so he has won. So he's also... New York temple is number one among temples, and his zone is number one among zones. So he has set the whole standard for the whole movement in book distribution.

Prabhupāda: All brahmacārī and sannyāsī.

Rāmeśvara: My zone is all gṛhasthas (laughs) with a few brahmacārīs. Anyway, next year we can beat Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. (Prabhupāda chuckles) He has only beaten us by a few hundred thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: But don't tell him now.

Rāmeśvara: Or it may be ruined.

Prabhupāda: He may be very careful.

Rāmeśvara: I think we should send him a congratulations letter.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. You send.

Rāmeśvara: I'll send him.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. To entice him.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Many ordinary businessmen and middle-class people have spent the money and practiced Transcendental Meditation for a little bit, and they say it has helped them. It has given them peace of mind for a little bit.

Prabhupāda: That can give temporarily.

Rāmeśvara: But there's one haṭha-yoga teacher from India who's a little well known.

Gargamuni: Yogi Bhajan?

Rāmeśvara: No. He's different. He is a sex teacher. But there is this one other haṭha-yoga teacher. I can't remember his name. He's... Viṣṇu Devananda. And he is publishing pamphlets against Maharishi, that "This is completely bogus. In the name of meditation it is completely fraud, bluff, bogus." And he mails out these pamphlets all over America. He takes out ads in the newspapers trying to expose that "This is not according to any Indian scripture."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: But his movement is so nonsense, he has women sannyāsīs. Swami Māyādevī (laughter). I've seen a picture of his advertisement. "Join our camp..."

Prabhupāda: The woman sannyāsī, Rāmakrishna Mission has.

Rāmeśvara: He's... What is it? Śivānanda? Divine Light. They advertise, "Come to our summer camp for yoga practice, and our women will teach you." They are swamis.

Gargamuni: His students sued him one time because he preaches brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: I have seen their sannyāsī kissing woman on the street.

Rāmeśvara: On the street.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He came to see me in London, and I saw in the street there was some woman; he is kissing her. I have seen sannyāsī.

Nanda-kumāra: This Rajneesh makes woman sannyāsīs too.

Prabhupāda: Rajneesh makes husband and wife sannyāsī. That we saw, that, in Poona?

Hari-śauri: Yes. We stayed at one man's house, and his brother was a follower of Rajneesh.

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī.

Hari-śauri: After a day and a half Prabhupāda convinced the guy that Rajneesh was just a rascal. He came that morning we left, and he admitted Rajneesh was just a rascal and was just cheating everyone. "Neo-sannyāsa," they call it.

Rāmeśvara: Seems as soon as these people die, like this Sai Baba, Maharishi, then their movement will be finished.

Prabhupāda: And another rascal will come. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our process. Āpani ācārī prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. You be happy, very ideally, and people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you make minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness this thing, it will never be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be successful if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Hari-śauri: Only if the chanting and prasādam is there.

Prabhupāda: Prasādam, Deity worship, devotional life... Then it will be all right.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Gandhi could never implement his program.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can do. They simply... Even... What is that? Marx? He could not. There is no real attraction. Artificial, by force. Here the real attraction is Kṛṣṇa. So other thing he doesn't mind: "Let there be little inconvenience. I don't mind."

Hari-śauri: A devotee is actually getting a higher taste. He's getting some real enjoyment, so he doesn't care for the other things.

Prabhupāda: So unless there is enjoyment he cannot stick. But that enjoyment is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Just that chanting is enough. It's just so much nectar.

Prabhupāda: No, everything—Deity worship, chanting, kīrtana, preaching, publishing, distributing—everything.

Rāmeśvara: This requires superintelligence. Just like, say, in Los Angeles there are two hundred devotees. It is taxing our brains how to give proper engagement to every one of them.

Prabhupāda: Well, this engagement is: "Go and sell books." That engagement is already there.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but some are not qualified, some householders...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of quality, of... It doesn't matter whether he sells one book or hundred books. It doesn't matter. Let him be engaged, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm saying. To find the proper engagement, the best utilization of every man's...

Prabhupāda: This is very good engagement, very good engagement. Go door to door. I don't mind if you no sell. But you have gone. That's all. I don't mind. It is not business, that "Because you could not sell anything, your salary will be dismissed." No. There is no such question.

Rāmeśvara: But then they feel dissatisfied. Then they would prefer to do something else where they can perform better. They can accomplish something more.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no, no.

Hari-śauri: Our devotees tend to work on a fruitive basis.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: If they don't get some result from their activity, they become discouraged.

Rāmeśvara: In other words, sometimes...

Prabhupāda: Now, who said that "You don't bring money"? But I am not discouraging you, even if you don't bring money.

Gargamuni: When we took sannyāsa, you told us to go door to door.

Prabhupāda: That's all!

Gargamuni: We brought some fruits and some change, and Prabhupāda was very satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: We went door to door for two hours.

Rāmeśvara: No, I mean it is practical that if a man comes with artistic talents, then I will try to engage him as an artist. Different talents...

Prabhupāda: No, engage him. There must be engagement. Either as a artist or bookseller, there must be engagement.

Rāmeśvara: According to different talents.

Prabhupāda: Nobody should be allowed to keep himself lazy. That is not good. Niyataṁ kuru karma tvam.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although Kṛṣṇa's life may have been controversial, still, He was very strict sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: He never criticized Kṛṣṇa. Rather, He was enjoying Kṛṣṇa's love with gopīs.

Gurukṛpā: Ramya kaścid upāsanā varga...(?)

Prabhupāda: So we have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, not you.

Satsvarūpa: And Śukadeva Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is the... Kṛṣṇa must have everything. Otherwise how He is God? God's definition is that everything is emanating from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). He's God, the original source of anything. Anything and everything. Then He's God. So if sex life is not in Kṛṣṇa, then wherefrom it comes? Does it drop from the sky? You rascal, you do not know the science.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: Rāmeśvara told me that in ISKCON mail order there are many people outside who are following. They are offering their food, having kīrtanas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, you can accept a suitable situation according to your convenience. There is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Four orders are there. Whichever is suitable for you, accept. But don't forget the problem and the aim of life. And we don't want men giving some quotation from a book just like these so-called scholars do. He has not gone through the book, but take some suitable passage and note, and then he advertises himself that he has studied so many book. "Bibliography." Is it not? So-called scholar?

Satsvarūpa: Footnotes, bibliography.

Prabhupāda: Footnote scholar they are now.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Lunchtime you'll make some cāpāṭi, very thin. I think I shall take cāpāṭis, a little rice. I'll give you instruction.

Pālikā: And what?

Prabhupāda: And at the time I shall tell you. Not any of the same thing. (chuckles) Everyone wants to cook for me.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But this girl, (laughs) she travels all over the world, spending her own money or society money?

Satsvarūpa: Society. She's the only one who's actually regular that is doing it good.

Prabhupāda: No, she is very responsible. Whatever I say, at least she tries to do it best. That is her qualification. Nei, everyone is doing. Nobody's...

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Nanda-kumāra wanted to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nanda-kumāra, as a sannyāsī, he should better preach. I have no objection. It is up to you to decide. I don't give much credit to the scientists. I give them credit as far as they deserve. It is not that I don't give them credit. Why shall I not? But they deny the existence and they say "We shall conquer over nature, and we shall make according to our necessity." These rascals I challenge.

Satsvarūpa: Just like you give credit to your cook.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: But that does not mean that the cook is...

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take credit as much as you deserve.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: The one thing that shocks the Indians the most is Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Because they're rascals. Modern people in India, they are all rascals. Whole population is bokā.

Gargamuni: No. The Marwaris don't like him because he was a chicken-eater.

Prabhupāda: Marwaris are little religious. They...

Gargamuni: They never talk about Vivekananda. They don't like him.

Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. He brought three women with whom he had intimate connection. That is very easy to make intimate connection with woman in America. With money also. He brought. And with their money. Aurobindo also, the same thing. With woman's money they became rich, not like me, with hard labor of writing books and selling. I could also do. There was chance. But this is not my business to make intimate relation with woman and get money. I could do. There was chance. When attempt was failed, the man who introduced that woman to me, he one day said, "I have seen many swamis, but none like you." (laughter)

Gargamuni: They advise you to grow a beard and to wear Western suit, the other swamis. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in a different style. (break) ...money. These rascals are also after woman and money, in a different style. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejects him, that "He's a rascal. He's after women." Immediately. Asat strī-saṅgī. Two kinds of rascals—nondevotee of Kṛṣṇa and woman-hunter—reject immediately. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... The sannyāsa life is... What is that? Cent percent, no connection with woman. That is sannyāsa. What we have renounced? We have renounced... We are using the motorcar, we are using this machine, we are eating, we are sleeping in nice room—what is the renouncement? Only renouncement is no connection with woman. That is the real platform of renouncement. If one can renounce woman's connection, then he's liberated man. That is very, very difficult. (break) Except myself, they go for woman and money, that's all, in foreign countries. This is the position. This Vishnu, Vishnu... Vishnananda, Vishnu-ananda? Now what is that? One yogi is in Montreal?

Satsvarūpa: Vishnu-something-ananda.

Prabhupāda: He also is after women. That's all.

Satsvarūpa: Swami Sac-cid-ananda.

Prabhupāda: He is also.

Satsvarūpa: He was exposed with fourteen-year-old girl.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see.

Satsvarūpa: And Yogi Bhajan.

Prabhupāda: He is openly.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He comes with his women.

Prabhupāda: He is openly. His philosophy is how to enjoy women, tantric.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He advertises sex for..., yoga for two. He has a special price that a couple can come and learn tantra-yoga in America. And then Guru Maharaj-ji, he married.

Prabhupāda: Tantra-yoga means they will have sex, and he will be able not to discharge. That is tantra-yoga. The woman likes a man who does not easily discharge. This is tantra-yoga. So he is teaching that art or science. They will prove their tantric success that while sex there is no discharge.

Satsvarūpa: I spoke to one of them and said that for spiritual life you had to refrain from sex, and he said, "No. If you do this enough, then you will not have any more desire." Otherwise if you just refrain, that is not as thorough.

Prabhupāda: So many things going on. Very difficult to lead spiritual life.

sandarśanaṁ viṣayiṇām atha yoṣitāṁ ca
hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu
(CC Madhya 11.8)

Actually one who is serious going back to home, back to Godhead—for such person, one should be niṣkiñcana, no connection with these material woman and money. Niṣkiñcanasya. (break)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: They had another question, whether these sannyāsīs' widows, that they would like to engage them, those who want to do it, as teachers. They think that would be a good...

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Preaching work is meant for the sannyāsīs, not for the married persons. Sannyāsī and brahmacārī, they go... (microphone rattling) Married couple also go... Generally it is meant for that. So if you have got sufficient men for preaching work, so you can make one center here and traveling...

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Guru is one, one who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa. If he does not know, then he is not guru. Why should you go there?

Guest (1): How should we know that he knows about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: That requires your fortune. Little intelligence. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). That intelligence is for the most fortunate person. That is not ordinary thing. But guru means who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa. If you go to a bogus man, that is your misfortune. So this is the description of guru, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement.

kibā vipra kibā nyāsī śūdra kene naya
yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya
(CC Madhya 8.128)

It doesn't matter whether he is a sannyāsī or gṛhastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he remains guru.

Guest (1): Science of Kṛṣṇa. If he knows about Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, or anything else...

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now they're getting two vans for book distribution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And now Gargamuni is asking to purchase this van and with that money they will purchase Indian van. That will solve the problem. Those who are coming... (break) Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Kṛṣṇa says. Anāśritaḥ, now you are working so hard not for your benefit, personal, and that is sannyāsī. That is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam. "Oh it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa." And he is sannyāsī. Anyone who has got this consciousness that "It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. I must serve Him with my life and soul and everything," he's a sannyāsī. Not the dress. So you are doing that. Now fix up. Go on doing this. Life is successful. That's all. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. Find out this verse. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalam. It is so nice to work for Kṛṣṇa without any personal profit. This is Vṛndāvana. The gopīs, they sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa, their position, their honor, their prestige. So do like that. I am very glad to see when you work so hard for Kṛṣṇa. That gives me much pleasure.

Hari-śauri:

anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ
kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ
sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca
na niragnir na cākriyaḥ

Prabhupāda: Cākriyaḥ. Read?

Hari-śauri: "The blessed Lord said: 'One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work.' "

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Hari-śauri: "In this chapter the Lord explains that the process..." (break)

Prabhupāda: So this is sannyāsī. Sannyāsī is not the dress. This mentality, that is sannyāsa. So you have taken all prasādam? No.

Room Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: So to approach a puffed-up man, falsely puffed-up man. Just like sometimes father begs from the son, "Oh, my dear child, oh, you are very... Give me this hundred rupees' note. You'll spoil it." But the child does not know that father is not beggar. The child thinks, "My father is begging. All right. Take it." This is childish. We are not begging. It is a means to approach the rascal puffed-up men. We are not begging. And what is that? If I sell one book, is that begging?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: Call them. Because people are falsely proud, therefore we approach them in a humble way... That also, we do not beg. We give something and take something, exchange, and give something which is appreciated by the greatest learned circle. And you are saying we are begging?

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes they don't give books. They just give a flower or...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also humble way. Unless...

Satsvarūpa: But mostly we do books.

Prabhupāda: Yes, mostly we do. Don't say about that flower. That may be. That is also not restricted. We can beg. In India still, high scholarly sannyāsīs, they beg. That is allowed. Bhikṣu. They like. Tridaṇḍī-bhikṣu. So begging in Vedic culture is neither illegal nor shameful—by the proper person. Begging is allowed to the brahmacārīs, to the sannyāsīs. And they like openly. Tridaṇḍī-bhikṣu. Bhikṣu means beggar.

Satsvarūpa: Tridaṇḍī-bhikṣu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here, the Indian culture, brahmacārī, sannyāsī and brāhmaṇa, they are allowed to beg alms. That is the Vedic culture. And the householders treat them as their own children. This is the relationship.

Satsvarūpa: But what if it's done in a culture where this is entirely different?

Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is your culture hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Lord Caitanya, when Rāmānanda Rāya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Ihā bāhya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.

Satsvarūpa: But don't we do that also?

Prabhupāda: No. Our position is different. We are trying to implement Kṛṣṇa consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally took sannyāsa. He rejected completely material. Niṣkiñcana. But we are not going to be niṣkiñcana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the... That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gītā. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected everything, ihā bāhya. Rejected meaning, "I do not take much interest in this." Bāhya. "It is external." He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required.

Satsvarūpa: Varṇāśrama is not required.

Prabhupāda: Not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu denied, "I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not kṣatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gītā, the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). So we are Kṛṣṇa..., preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It must be done.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible for ordinary man.

Hari-śauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: He only introduced just the chanting.

Prabhupāda: But who will chant? Who'll chant?

Satsvarūpa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varṇāśrama. That's the easiest.

Prabhupāda: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Satsvarūpa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasāda...

Prabhupāda: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varṇāśrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.

Hari-śauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varṇāśrama is not possible.

Prabhupāda: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.

Hari-śauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varṇāśrama and like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura to chant, it is not possible.

Satsvarūpa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thākaha āpanāra kāje, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Āpanāra kāja ki. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, sthāne sthitaḥ. And if they do not remain in the sthāna, then the sahajiyā's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyās also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyāsa but he was given sannyāsa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varṇāśrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and...

Satsvarūpa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas. There must be regular education.

Hari-śauri: But in our community, if the..., being as we're training up as Vaiṣṇavas...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava is not so easy. The varṇāśrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaiṣṇava. It is not so easy to become Vaiṣṇava.

Hari-śauri: No, it's not a cheap thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava, is not so easy. If Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyāsa is for the highest qualified brāhmaṇa. And simply by dressing like a Vaiṣṇava, that is... fall down.

Hari-śauri: So the varṇāśrama system is like for the kaniṣṭhas, Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.

Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha?

Hari-śauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, yes.

Hari-śauri: Varṇāśrama system is beneficial.

Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī means he must be a brāhmaṇa. That is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. The spiritual life, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, means he must be a qualified brāhmaṇa. That is kaniṣṭha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brāhmaṇa, that is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Today you've been saying that the Vaiṣṇava is the highest, above the brāhmaṇa. But then we've also understood that everyone in ISKCON is a Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vaiṣṇava everyone, even if he's not brāhmaṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). But you have to gradually bring him to that pure consciousness that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Here the bodily conception is going on, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that."

Satsvarūpa: If in our society we say, "Śrīla Prabhupāda wants some to be śūdra..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I don't want. I want everyone to become Vaiṣṇava. But because he's a śūdra, it is not possible to bring him immediately to the platform of brāhmaṇa, or Vaiṣṇava. Therefore falling down. Therefore system must be. But even if he remains a śūdra, he's a Vaiṣṇava.

Hari-śauri: So we'd have to completely revise the whole system that we have now.

Prabhupāda: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by experience that they're falling down. There must be systematic. Why falling down? Because he was not fit for the position, therefore he has fallen. Better remain in his position and become perfect. Why artificially bring them? There is no need. Kṛṣṇa says. Bring that Bhagavad-gītā. Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ?

Hari-śauri:

sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ
saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ
sva-karma-nirataḥ siddhiṁ
yathā vindati tac chṛṇu

"By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. Now please hear from Me how this can be done."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is śūdra, clerk. He can... As a śūdra, he can get the perfection. Why he should artificially become a brāhmaṇa and sannyāsī and fall down? This has to be checked.

Hari-śauri: So that depends upon our men who are giving recommendations.

Prabhupāda: So that recommendation is not good. Bible is giving so many recommendation. He's also not following them. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: Following them. So how will we implement? Right now we have... Every temple president can...

Prabhupāda: That is supposed. Where there is no tree, a castor seed tree is very big tree. That is going on.

Satsvarūpa: If there's no tree?

Prabhupāda: You know castor seed tree, a plant? it does not grow.

Satsvarūpa: Small.

Prabhupāda: Small. So there is no banyan tree. It is taken—"Oh, it is very big."

Hari-śauri: I don't follow the analogy.

Satsvarūpa: In the complete absence of trees, then a small tree is considered big.

Hari-śauri: Oh. (laughs) Well, say, like here in Māyāpura now we have a situation...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why? Why one should stress to become big tree? Here it is clearly said even if you are small tree, you can get perfection. So we should take that.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: So in Māyāpura here now we have that situation, that so many...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, wherever, Māyāpura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ. Brāhmaṇa has his duty, kṣatriya has his duty, vaiśya has his duty, śūdra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brāhmaṇa? Let them do, according to śāstra, the work of śūdra, or vaiśya. He'll get the perfect. Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brāhmaṇa or he should be made a sannyāsī and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That's good. That looks very nice. And that is possible. That is possible. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, can be worshiped if you perfectly follow the rules and regulation of four varṇas and four āśramas. Here it is also said, sve sve karmaṇi. You work as a perfect brāhmaṇa or a perfect kṣatriya, perfect śūdra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and fall down and become ludicrous? Perfection is not checked.

Satsvarūpa: But in most of our temples, the duties are either Deity worship, brāhmaṇa...

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇas are available. Why you are bothering about this? Brāhmaṇas are also available, śūdras are also available. Why śūdra should be artificially become a brāhmaṇa?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: What will the śūdras do in the big city temple, in all the temples?

Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing our temples? I am talking of the principle.

Satsvarūpa: Oh.

Hari-śauri: The principle we follow. We're just thinking how it can be implemented. You were saying that it should be started in our society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a very broad idea. Now we are speaking of some of them, training them. That is another thing. That is small scale.

Hari-śauri: The principle we're following.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the... For the big scale, this is the required. In big scale you cannot make all of them as brāhmaṇas or sannyāsīs. No. That is not possible. This is a small scale. How many percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be introduced according to the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole human society. Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said para-upakāra. Why a certain section should be picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is required, systematic. Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. Para-upakāra means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to introduce this varṇāśrama-dharma. It must be done perfectly, and it is possible and people will be happy.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ideal. We are giving the ideal.

Satsvarūpa: But no one's listening and no one's taking it up except a few...

Prabhupāda: But you take. You show them.

Hari-śauri: That's why we say, "we."

Prabhupāda: That "We said" means not we are going to take them, but we are simply giving the ideas. We are not going to be a śūdra. But to show the... Just like you play in a drama. You are playing the part of a king. You are not a king.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: So similarly, just to give them idea, we have to play like that.

Hari-śauri: Well, again, that's...

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily that we are going to be śūdra. So that is it. That is the thing. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And as servant of Kṛṣṇa, we have to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa.

Satsvarūpa: So we can ideally organize ourselves and then for the rest of the people all we can do is hope that they'll follow it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Set the example.

Prabhupāda: Example. Just like Bhavānanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He's a sannyāsī Vaiṣṇava. Similarly, āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a sannyāsī." But He took sannyāsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyāsī, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varṇāśrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varṇāśrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll take that as an insult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, insult. The animals should be kicked with shoes and stick. Argumentum baculum. There is no argument for animals. Kick and stick. Beat him. That is the way of dealing with animal. You cannot request an animal very... "My dear dog, please do not bark. Sit down." Simply kick and give him stick. That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It is coming," they'll say. "In the future."

Prabhupāda: Again "coming." "In future." You are misled by these rascal words. Even if you do in future, what credit is there? It is already there. Why I shall wait for the future? It is already there. If some... We are sannyāsīs, begging, so if you go to somebody—he says, "Yes, I'll pay you one hundred rupees in future. I am trying to get the money"—shall you wait for that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means no payment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I'll go to a man who has got already. Why shall I wait for you?

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: I was wondering, I've been... While in New York I've been worshiping the Deities, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but now, because of this case, I'm forced to travel more between some of the temples and because of the legal work. So I was thinking to take some Deities with me to worship wherever I go.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sannyāsī is not required.

Ādi-keśava: All right.

Bhakti-caru(?): Are there any mūrti, having?

Prabhupāda: No. A sannyāsī's not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was traveling, He was not carrying any Deity. Deity worship is specially recommended for the gṛhasthas. That is compulsory.

Ādi-keśava: In the temples we should always recommend the gṛhasthas to worship the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Just like our Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, it was established... This temple was established by Jīva Gosvāmī. He was brahmacārī. So how these gosvāmīs, they are worshiping? He had no sons. It was... The temple was established by him, but the worship was transferred to the gṛhasthas bhakta. So they are doing by generation. All these Vṛndāvana temples, Govindajī temple, Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, Rādhā-Dāmodara. Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, he was also brahmacārī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa. He did not marry. Jīva Gosvāmī was brahmacārī. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, they sannyāsīs. So how these gṛhasthas got this sevā? They were disciples, gṛhasthas. So gṛhastha disciples were meant for worshiping Deity. And others, they are meant for preaching. This is the primary principle. So if you are engaged in preaching... Deity worship, it must be done in scheduled time, this time, this time, this time. Then that is very difficult for you. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not do that. He was traveling alone, preaching, preaching. So it will be great burden to carry Deity. But in preaching work, when you are many, you are carrying Deity in the bus. That is good, there are others, some nice engage, that is temple life. But personally if you carry some Deity, it will be troublesome. It will be hampering your preaching work.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: What about in the temples, when we're visiting the temples? The temples we're visiting now... That book that Jayatīrtha was making on Deity worship following from the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, he told me he is making on your order to make a standard of Deity worship. That is the standard we should be advising the temples to follow?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make it simplified. At the present moment, especially in the Western countries, it is not possible to follow very elaborate program, but what I have given already, that is sufficient, six times worshiping, ārati, just like here going on, just like the same program. Not to make it difficult thing, because with the advancement of Kali-yuga, more difficulties are coming. So simple, things should be simplified. That is wanted. (break) Go on preaching from one place to another, another place. Mahā-vicalanam. Mahātmās should walk. Vicalanam, "movement." Just like I was in Vṛndāvana. If I had not moved, then this movement would not have been started. Because I moved at the age of seventy years, something is now tangible. So similarly, every sannyāsī should move from place to place. Parivrājakācārya, that is... Ācārya means teacher, and parivrāja, movement. Bhavānanda Mahārāja has become very popular in Bengal. You can move from village to village. People will like you. You can speak little Bengali?

Bhavānanda: Little bit.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Bhavānanda: Just ek arci.

Prabhupāda: Tomār kāmanā āche? (laughter) That's... Āmi bāṅgalā boli nā, "I can't speak Bengali very well," bolete pari nā. They like it, to hear. There is nothing new.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, tomorrow's program...

Prabhupāda: Hm. So Acyutānanda has come. You all sannyāsīs may, one or two, remain here. And kīrtana party-Acyutānanda, he has got minibus.

Bhavānanda: Yes, I was going to fill the bus and Your Divine Grace's car and one, Abhirāma's car. Jayapatākā Mahārāja is in Calcutta, and he's returning tomorrow morning, so he thought that he would stop in Chakdaha.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Bhavānanda: But we're very, very busy, Jayapatākā and I, because the festival is coming up. Would it be all right if I stayed back? I make all the arrangements, but stay behind to supervise it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as you think best. (break)

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your mother-in-law. You said that when you took sannyāsa, she could not take it.

Prabhupāda: No, I must admit she was very, very kind. Very, very kind. Although she's woman, but on account of her daughter... Whatever I'll command, she'll suffer. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām (SB 11.5.41). We become indebted in this way with so many people. Devarṣi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇāṁ
na kiṅkaro nāyam ṛṇī ca rājan
sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ
gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam
(SB 11.5.41)
Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Mission, in the beginning they asked me, "You be in coat and pant." Otherwise nobody will hear me.

Gargamuni: Ramakrishna suggested Prabhupāda use coats and pants.

Prabhupāda: Their sannyāsīs, they dress in coat-tie.

Brahmānanda: Swami Nikhilananda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have seen.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, Śukrācārya's cloth is why long? So?

Rāmeśvara: Too long.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Did you catch that?

Muralīdhara: It should be below the knees or...?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. This is sannyāsī cloth. Should be shorter.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: What about the idea that "You do not have to move into a temple, give up your family and everything, but you can actually chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in your own home," that idea that "It is available to you..."

Prabhupāda: No, that chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa does not mean whimsical.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Offenseless, he must be properly initiated. It does not mean that he should not be initiated and chant. That is not the idea. You can... Must be initiated, either you are a gṛhastha or sannyāsī or brahmacārī. Not that without being initiated you'll whimsically chant and the effect will be the same. No. You must be initiated. Ādau gurvāśrayam. You must accept a guru.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: So in the past, in the magazine, we have only shown people chanting if they were initiated devotees, shaven-headed, living in temple. And recently they have adopted to show people who have jobs outside the movement, and they are not brahmacārī or sannyāsī. They're also chanting, to give the public the idea that...

Prabhupāda: So that we are giving, the facility to chant and take prasādam, but at the same time, gradually, if chanting is effective, then next we have to make it in the process.

Brahmānanda: We want to bring them to the process.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ultimate. That is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī,

yena tena prakāreṇa
manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet
sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur
etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ

that "Somehow or other, bring him to chant Kṛṣṇa or to become little Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, when he's little purified, then the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ..." He's not rejecting the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Vidhi-niṣedhāḥ means regulative principles. It is not rejected, that... But when he's a little purified, this vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Just like one... First of all let him become rich, get some money. And then, when he has got money, he can keep some servant, some assistant, some secretaries, like that. First of all earn money.

Rāmeśvara: So one step at a time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: We also resolved what Tamāla Kṛṣṇa just said, our schedule. So that we don't meet overlong, we resolved that we should finish our meetings by the third of March. President's meeting on the morning of the fourth. The GBC final meeting on the afternoon of the fourth. Then other meetings scheduled were that in the evening of the fourth there should be a meeting of all the sannyāsīs, including, of course, the GBC sannyāsīs.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the resolution of the sannyāsī meeting?

Satsvarūpa: Well, the purpose would be that everyone actually take out an assignment that he will take for the year, not that independently a sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, sannyāsīs... GBC as a body, they should give direction to the sannyāsīs.

Satsvarūpa: At a sannyāsī meeting?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of meeting? There are so many sannyāsīs in the GBC. So that is sufficient. Mostly they are sannyāsīs. So whatever they have decided, that should be carried by other sannyāsīs. What is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: No, not these resolutions.

Prabhupāda: Then why the sannyāsīs meeting again?

Satsvarūpa: For the particular service of each sannyāsī, so he will say, "I want to preach in Africa" or "I want to go to the colleges." Each man write down...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is preference how he wants to work. That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: That's the purpose of that meeting. And then we also scheduled the holding of the bhakti-śāstra exam for being on Gaura Pūrṇimā, the fifth.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential. It is a great future, and I can see that if we start publishing the first journal, volume, then it's going to attract many people from the academic circles and intellectual surroundings, and in some time I can see there will be a whole new field of preaching in the academic circles all over the world, not only in India and United States, Canada, but Europe. Europe is going to be observe better centers along these lines. In fact, there are some very leading men in Cambridge and Oxford going to open the whole...

Prabhupāda: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So we have our Indian headquarters in Bombay, and we can organize in such a manner that...

Prabhupāda: Where you will give them place?

Girirāja: Well, we could give them where your quarters used to be. Next to the sannyāsī āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Will that do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Especially when our new temple is complete, that lecture hall or that theater hall...

Girirāja: Oh, yes. This is just in the meantime.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, just for the time being?

Girirāja: Yeah.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: Can I change the subject now?

Prabhupāda: Subject?

Mr. Koshi: I mean to something different, about the... You all have list, some conditions in this...

Prabhupāda: No condition. Study Bhagavad-gītā. Make your life...

Mr. Koshi: No, for example, the saffron robe, the beads...

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Mr. Koshi: And the shaving of the head with the little...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama. This is āśrama. He is sannyāsī, he must take to it.

Mr. Koshi: And the avoidance of...

Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So just like if you take, become a police officer, you must take the dress.

Mr. Koshi: Uniform. No, but say the avoidance of tea and coffee and all that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Koshi: Is something wrong with tea?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is sinful, pāna.

Mr. Koshi: By itself it is not bad.

Prabhupāda: Itself is bad, sinful.

Mr. Koshi: It's a neutral thing.

Prabhupāda: You say, but śāstra says striya, sūnā, pāna, dyūta (SB 1.17.38), four kinds of sinful activities. Illicit sex; pāna, intoxication. Pāna, pāna, so it is intoxication. Therefore it is sinful.

Mr. Koshi: And what is the fourth?

Prabhupāda: Striya, sūnā and jīva-hiṁsā, unnecessarily killing animals.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: So I've been reading the commentary after commentary. I enjoyed them. It was full of honey and nectar and knowledge to people who are insignificant and idiots like me. (Prabhupāda laughs) I enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu also presented Himself as idiot number one. He said to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Him that "You are a sannyāsī. You do not read Vedānta and You chant and dance. What is this?" So He answered, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. "My guru found Me a fool number one, so he has chastised Me, 'You rascal, You are fool, You cannot read Vedānta. You Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " So it is good that we remain as fools and idiot. Then we can make progress. And if we think, "Oh, I know everything," then finished. It is a good attitude. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana.

Dr. Sharma: Śāsana means punishment, to check.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get very much happy when our Guru Mahārāja chastises us.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: So I've been reading the commentary after commentary. I enjoyed them. It was full of honey and nectar and knowledge to people who are insignificant and idiots like me. (Prabhupāda laughs) I enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu also presented Himself as idiot number one. He said to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Him that "You are a sannyāsī. You do not read Vedānta and You chant and dance. What is this?" So He answered, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. "My guru found Me a fool number one, so he has chastised Me, 'You rascal, You are fool, You cannot read Vedānta. You Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " So it is good that we remain as fools and idiot. Then we can make progress. And if we think, "Oh, I know everything," then finished. It is a good attitude. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana.

Dr. Sharma: Śāsana means punishment, to check.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get very much happy when our Guru Mahārāja chastises us.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...objectionable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Objectionable? I haven't read it yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He advertised himself, he is only (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Surabhī.

Prabhupāda: Hm. And neither he has mentioned his guru's name nor others' name, as if he is doing everything. His ambition is only... Yes. Not a single place, any other swamiji or swami, as if he is, it is his idea and he will supply money and everything, like that. And without any sanction of a committee he has come to pay whimsically. So everything will be done like that. There are so many mistakes. You read it. Here. Similarly, everything is being done, it is Surabhī Mahārāja. Have you read already?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He does not like to interfere with his guru. He is doing everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe Girirāja should be called up. When they come, then we can read this article out loud. Says here, "Asked whether his city..."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city..."

Prabhupāda: "His city"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What is that? "Asked..."?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..." It's not his city.

Prabhupāda: He can say that he has taken sannyāsa for his popularization?(?) (Surabhīr Abhipālayantam enters, offers obeisances) Did you consult this article with others' consultation or by whimsical joke?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: It could be...

Prabhupāda: This article...

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Did you publish it by consulting your other colleagues, or whimsically you have published?

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...and the host was very rich man in anywhere. And he has no son. He expressed his desire to father to take me. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your father would not give you up. He was a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Another gentleman in Hasi(?)... We were going in the same car. So he requested me, "Please come here." An old man, nice, very well-to-do man. And after giving the nice seat and some refreshment, so he said that "I like you very much. I have no son. Why don't you become my son?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like everyone is very affectionate to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. He picked up on the street like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ne, adopted son, that is a practice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America also, they have the foster home. The children are there, and parents may go and adopt some child.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. So that village gentleman, that place I liked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you have agreed to stay with him?

Prabhupāda: I would have been glad. Very nice foodstuff, very nice, clean, and he has got his fresh vegetables, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old were you?

Prabhupāda: At that time I was ten years old. Or twelve years. Not more than twelve years. But I liked that place very much. They still presented the foodstuff, fresh. I have been many... Not many. In the village so tasteful, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and they cooked so nicely. Nice milk. Everything very nutritious. That life is gone. What is this nonsense life, hanging in the daily buses, outside. Kṛṣṇa advises to live village life, agriculture, and utilize time for understanding your spiritual life. That is... So we are trying to introduce this, this farm life. (break)

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...and the host was very rich man in anywhere. And he has no son. He expressed his desire to father to take me. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your father would not give you up. He was a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Another gentleman in Hasi(?)... We were going in the same car. So he requested me, "Please come here." An old man, nice, very well-to-do man. And after giving the nice seat and some refreshment, so he said that "I like you very much. I have no son. Why don't you become my son?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like everyone is very affectionate to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. He picked up on the street like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ne, adopted son, that is a practice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America also, they have the foster home. The children are there, and parents may go and adopt some child.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. So that village gentleman, that place I liked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you have agreed to stay with him?

Prabhupāda: I would have been glad. Very nice foodstuff, very nice, clean, and he has got his fresh vegetables, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old were you?

Prabhupāda: At that time I was ten years old. Or twelve years. Not more than twelve years. But I liked that place very much. They still presented the foodstuff, fresh. I have been many... Not many. In the village so tasteful, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and they cooked so nicely. Nice milk. Everything very nutritious. That life is gone. What is this nonsense life, hanging in the daily buses, outside. Kṛṣṇa advises to live village life, agriculture, and utilize time for understanding your spiritual life. That is... So we are trying to introduce this, this farm life. (break)

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Patita-pāvana: They have asked me several times to convey their respects to you.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. They have got respect for our society?

Patita-pāvana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Patita-pāvana: Yes. They have written beautiful letters which I am going to xerox and give to my friends for preaching.

Prabhupāda: No, every sane man will appreciate our effort. Especially from general... Even the Māyāvādīs, they are also praising.

Patita-pāvana: The Māyāvādīs, yes.

Prabhupāda: Even the Māyāvādīs, they are also praising these activities. Yesterday two Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, came, Śaṅkara-sampradāya.

Patita-pāvana: This Arkasomaya...

Prabhupāda: They are taking from this point of view, that India's culture has been so nicely spread that people are taking serious con... That is their appreciation. We have got differences of opinion, philosophy. That is our... But India's culture is being accepted through the world. That they are appreciating.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Stick to our principle, and see our GBC is very alert. Then everything will go on, even I am not present. Do that. That is my request. Whatever little I have taught you, follow that, and nobody will be aggrieved. No māyā will touch you. Now Kṛṣṇa has given us, and there will be no scarcity of money. You print book and sell. So everything is there. We have got good shelter all over the world. We have got income. You stick to our principles, follow the... Even if I die suddenly, you'll be able to manage. That's all. That I want. Manage nicely and let the movement go forward. Now arrange. Don't go backward. Be careful. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. Some eau de cologne smell? Eau de cologne?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of smell?

Prabhupāda: Eau de cologne.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eau de cologne?

Prabhupāda: I have got it, but I think it is... He has used.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is using. Yeah, I don't use... Sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, eau de cologne is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may be using.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Western countries, they use, everyone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. So Gargamuni did pretty well with those standing orders. No sooner... He says that actually you knew that it was going to happen, so you wanted him to get some glory, so you arranged like that.

Prabhupāda: Everyone engaged in some particular department, he must improve and... Then things will go on nice. Upendra is very neat.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Some eau de cologne smell? Eau de cologne?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of smell?

Prabhupāda: Eau de cologne.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eau de cologne?

Prabhupāda: I have got it, but I think it is... He has used.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is using. Yeah, I don't use... Sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, eau de cologne is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may be using.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Western countries, they use, everyone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. So Gargamuni did pretty well with those standing orders. No sooner... He says that actually you knew that it was going to happen, so you wanted him to get some glory, so you arranged like that.

Prabhupāda: Everyone engaged in some particular department, he must improve and... Then things will go on nice. Upendra is very neat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are so many gentlemen here. They want to give their property, house, outside Bombay, to this institution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless we can properly manage them though, there's no use taking them.

Prabhupāda: Land, house, they are free. But there is no arrangement we can make.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the real key is this book distribution.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we increase our book distribution, we'll automatically get...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...people to join.

Prabhupāda: They're actually seeing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I meant that unless we make devotees...

Prabhupāda: This is a unique in the history that an Indian sannyāsī has done so alone. That is unique. It is recorded in history. So therefore they are appreciating. They can... They have got common sense that "These rascal go and talk." Now this Bala Yogi has stopped his activities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Completely.

Prabhupāda: Because he has come to know that if we can capture, it will be dangerous. And this... What is that? Transcendental Meditation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: That Mahesh Yogi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahesh, Maharishi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they're starting to get wise to him now.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is for bhakti. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am speaking to you..." When Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna Bhagavad-gītā to understand, he was not a vedāntī. He was not even a brāhmaṇa. He was not a sannyāsī. So why he was selected? Bhakto 'si. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Without becoming kṛṣṇa-bhakta, what one will understand Bhagavad-gītā?

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So under the circumstances, those who have no vairāgya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I do.

Prabhupāda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gṛhastha, and enjoy gṛhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacārī and sannyāsī, our, mainly, not for gṛhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gṛhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He always maintained a government service job, and still...

Prabhupāda: He gave so much service to Kṛṣṇa. From his family maintenance... He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he... Markaṭa-vairāgya. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was against giving sannyāsa. He didn't like these bābājīs. They were markaṭa-vairāgya, superficially... Markaṭa-vairāgya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairāgya. But three dozen wives. Markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa means monkey. Superficially vairāgya, nāgā-bābā. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairāgya.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Women should be taken care of—as daughter, as wife, as mother, bas. No freedom. Then prostitution. Then spoiled the whole thing. Unwanted children, contraceptive, abortion. Very dangerous. In our society there are girls. They should live separately. They should be given full engagement, taken care of. No mixing. Then it will spoil. Both of them will be... We see big, big workers, sannyāsīs. (Name withheld) fell victim. The example is given: fire and butter. (laughs) You cannot say the butter will not melt even in fire. Woman is like fire, and man is like butter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The butter should be kept cool.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In a cool refrigerator, cool-headed. As soon as come in contact with the fire, agitate. The example is given. In Indian... Up to our time restriction was very strict. Now it is slackened.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We get a letter from Morarji Desai. It was written to Jagat-guru. Jagat-guru Swami got a letter from Morarji Desai.

Prabhupāda: Jagat-guru Swami, who is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's your... He's that disciple that was in Africa for a while.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Tall sannyāsī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was preaching in Africa for a while, and he was in India for a while also. He's one of your disciples.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He took sannyāsa last year with Haṁsadūta Swami.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His name is Jagat-guru.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He collected a big donation in Middle East once, and he gave it to you, twelve thousand dollars or some...

Prabhupāda: Our?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he got a letter. Should I read it to Your Divine Grace? "Dear..." It's signed by Morarji Desai. "Dear Shree Jagat-guru Swami, I thank you for your letter of April 4th and am grateful to you for your good wishes. You have cited some very wise sūtras from our ancient writings. Although I have been called upon to shoulder heavy responsibilities, it has been my endeavor in the past and it will be so in future to see that there is no hiatus between my public and private life. This is what I have learned from Gandhiji, and I have thus saved my life from contradictions. Thank you once again for your kind sentiments. Yours sincerely..."

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian woman (5): The human heart cannot take to compassion?

Prabhupāda: There is compassion. It is revived. That's all. All the good qualities are there, because he's part and parcel of God, but in ignorance they are now covered. You have to discover. Just like Brahman. You are Brahman by nature, but you are thinking, "I am this...," "I am American," "I am Indian." And that is your disease. "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am gṛhastha." "I am sannyāsī." That is your disease, more or less. But actually you are Brahman because you are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. So when you actually realize yourself-brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—no problems. All problem finished. So that is required.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: We simply repeat. That is our business. We are not learned scholars. But our mission is to repeat the words of Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. He says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru." "Now, how shall I become guru? I am neither learned nor Vedantist, neither sannyāsī. How can I become guru?" "No, no, you have no difficulty. You, on My order, become guru simply..." Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. "You become guru. Whomever you meet, you simply try to convince him what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. Then you become guru." So we request everyone the same thing. And become guru. It is very urgently necessary.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination. So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So partial understanding will not satisfy because he is himself, the same quality, sac-cid-ānanda. He's seeking after ānanda. If he does not get ānanda, if he cannot dance with Kṛṣṇa, then he falls down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Again material dancing, again hospital, schools. Big, big sannyāsīs could not get any relish. Then... (Hindi) The brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If it is mithyā, why you are after school? Patanty adhaḥ. Therefore unless one is very pious, sukṛti, they cannot stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Therefore piety, pious activities, is recommended in the śāstras.

Conversations -- May 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can keep here. When Mr. Bose has come?

Akṣayānanda: Mr Ghosh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bose.

Akṣayānanda: Oh. Just three days ago.

Prabhupāda: How long he'll stay?

Akṣayānanda: He wants to stay.

Prabhupāda: He wants, but I don't think he wants. (laughs) It is known to me.

Mr. Bose(?): No, I'll stay. I promised them.

Prabhupāda: You promised them? (laughter) This time little advanced he has become there, Bose... Shaven-headed. (Hindi) His father was sannyāsī. He's the first sannyāsī of Gauḍīya Maṭha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: His father was the first sannyāsī of Gauḍīya Maṭha, my Godbrother, Bhakti-pradīpa-tīrtha. He was very kindly. He liked me very much. (Hindi) He has come. Just try to train him. Son must be there. The son of a very big man. The father's quality must be there.

Indian man (2): (Hindi) I... Hardly I endorse. Without Your Grace, a man like me never... I realize your now...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (2): He's so kind to me.

Prabhupāda: He is ideal sannyāsī. I think he's younger than you.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara is not our regular disciple.

Jayapatākā: Shouldn't be included.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept sannyāsa from me.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: He should know...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Become initiated.

Jayapatākā: Trustee must be initiated disciple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: If he is seen... He could be on the advisory board.

Prabhupāda: No, you can say that "If you take sannyāsa, you become on this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll talk to him, and if he says no, then we'll select another person and come back and tell you who our choice is.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda said that they should come here.

Prabhupāda: No, they should attend the fire sacrifice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He hasn't begun the sacrifice yet.

Prabhupāda: You go and begin and then come. Fire sacrifice finished. Our...

Indian devotee (1): Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: He said that fire sacrifice not yet... They'll do...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know when I got sannyāsa, first...

Indian devotee (1): I was also that it is... It should be...

Prabhupāda: All right. All right, you shall go. So one by one, they should change their cloth. Can you help them?

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Devotees:

etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām
adhyāsitāṁ pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ
ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāraṁ
tamo mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Devotees: (repeat same verse)

Prabhupāda: The meaning, that "I am taking this sannyāsa for the purpose of crossing over the ocean of nescience." Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭha, Bhagavān, Paramātmā. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa... So here are three daṇḍas. One daṇḍa, person. There are four daṇḍas. He is person, "I am." And the other three daṇḍa—my mind... Kāya manaḥ vākya: my mind, my body and my words. "So I dedicate my mind, my body and my activities, parātma-niṣṭha, only for the service of the Supreme. So being situated in that position, following..." Pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. It is not that I have introduced something new. All big, big ācāryas, they took sannyāsa for this preaching work-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya even. And that is pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow maharṣibhiḥ. So "All ācāryas of India, they have taken sannyāsa, so I am also taking sannyāsa. The business is parātma-niṣṭha." So what will be the benefit? Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram: "This ocean of nescience is duranta-pāram. It is very, very difficult to cross over. But I'll cross over." How? Tamaḥ. This is darkness, tamaḥ. Mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva: "Simply by serving the lotus feet of Mukunda." Mukunda means "one who can give liberation, mukti." Mukunda. So chant again this.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So now you can go attend the, yes, sacrifice. Then, conveniently, you have to take the gāyatrī-mantra, and he has to take the gāyatrī-mantra. Then it will be all right.

Bhakti-caitanya: So come again to take that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, after initiation. And here is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He already had gāyatrī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he has got?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Bengali) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Help them, all senior sannyāsīs. If there is some mistake, correct them. Cooperation and... (Bengali) Everyone... That's all. There is mālā? Give them mālā each. Yes. That's all. Give them.

Indian devotee (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) He has already gone?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he... Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhakti-prema Swami wants to know if he can get the gāyatrī now, if you want to give him gāyatrī...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all attend.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. (break)

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five hundred? Is that your program, Prabhupāda, five hundred boys?

Prabhupāda: At least.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least five hundred.

Guṇārṇava: The top portion also will be kept for gurukula purposes. We were thinking the brahmacārīs and sannyāsīs should move from the guesthouse and live on the top.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Guṇārṇava: So they can mix with the gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not?

Yaśodānandana: What about householders and ladies?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not at all.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "When I go to call to the..., mean, my nature's call, I go on horseback, I ride on a horse. And for passing stool, I go on a horseback." (laughs) I am a sannyāsī, beggar, but I am carried. "Carry me four, five miles." (Bengali) Get this pan.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: We need in this country very much, in every city, in every town. For twenty years I was searching for something like this, and I think something exactly what I have dreamt of. And I think there are some very few problems that might come up, because most of the people are sannyāsīs. They are doing lot of preaching work. They aren't necessarily bothered with lot of administrative work. And if their administrative work is done by some other people, then they can concentrate more on preaching, which is very necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, sannyāsī, brahmacārī, means preaching. They are not meant for material management. They have dedicated their life for spiritual-although this material service is also spiritual—but they are doing on such a strength. You cannot expect a very expertly management and... But they act. Simply ask them to do the needful.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you've given us... Even if you didn't give us...

Prabhupāda: Nobody. All these sannyāsīs, they leave. They do not give. They cannot give. They have no knowledge. Here the blind man, kānā, they keep them in darkness by some hobby and beggar, this, that, that... Actually they cannot do anything.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (break) There are many fathers. They cannot maintain even one child, what to speak of four children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't maintain any, because they don't have Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible.

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything was "probably" in their books.

Prabhupāda: "Probably," "maybe."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those are their favorite words. Śrīla Prabhupāda? We're receiving a number of letters now, and these are people who want to get initiated. So up until now, since your becoming ill, we asked them to wait.

Prabhupāda: The local, mean, senior sannyāsīs can do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what we were doing... I mean, formerly we were... The local GBC, sannyāsīs, were chanting on their beads, and they were writing to Your Divine Grace, and you were giving a spiritual name. So should that process be resumed, or should we...? I mean one thing is that it's said that the spiritual master takes on the... You know, he takes on the... He has to cleanse the disciple by... So we don't want that you should have to... Your health is not so good, so that should not be... That's why we've been asking everybody to wait. I just want to know if we should continue to wait some more time.

Prabhupāda: No, the senior sannyāsīs...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they should continue to...

Prabhupāda: You can give me a list of sannyāsīs. I will mark who will...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: You can do. Kīrtanānanda can do. And our Satsvarūpa can do. So these three, you can give, begin.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So supposing someone is in America, should they simply write directly to Kīrtanānanda or Satsvarūpa?

Prabhupāda: Nearby. Jayatīrtha can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayatīrtha.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānan..., er, Bhagavān. And he can do also. Harikeśa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And... Five, six men, you divide who is nearest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is nearest. So persons wouldn't have to write to Your Divine Grace. They could write directly to that person?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they are initiating the person on Your Divine Grace's behalf. Those persons who are initiated are still your...

Prabhupāda: Second initiation we shall think over, second initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is for first initiation, okay. And for second initiation, for the time being they should...

Prabhupāda: No, they have to wait. Second initiation, that should be given...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should... Some devotees are writing you now for second initiation, and I'm writing them to wait a while because you're not well. So can I continue to tell them that?

Prabhupāda: They can do second initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By writing you.

Prabhupāda: No. These men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These men, they can also do second initiation. So there's no need for devotees to write to you for first and second initiation. They can write to the man nearest them. But all these persons are still your disciples. Anybody who gives initiation is doing so on your behalf.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know that book I'm maintaining of all of your disciples' names? Should I continue that?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if someone gives initiation, like Harikeśa Mahārāja, he should send the person's name to us here and I'll enter it in the book. Okay. Is there someone else in India that you want to do this?

Prabhupāda: India, I am here. We shall see. In India, Jayapatākā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: You are also in India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You can note down these names.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I have them.

Prabhupāda: Who are they?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, Jayatīrtha Prabhu, Bhagavān Prabhu, Harikeśa Mahārāja, Jayapatākā Mahārāja and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Now you distribute.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven. There's seven names.

Prabhupāda: For the time being, seven names, sufficient. You can make Rāmeśvara.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And Hṛdayānanda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. South America.

Prabhupāda: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right... That will depend on discretion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On discretion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's for first and second initiations.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Shall I send a kīrtana party, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: General idea is "How a young man can live without a young woman?" Not now. This is the material idea. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Oh, you are after woman? Oh. You are more than committing suicide."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Diametrically opposed.

Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'pi. "You are after woman? It is more dangerous than drinking poison." Who will accept? And Western country—"Oh, without young woman, what is life?" Madhudviṣa became victimized by woman. So he became so ashamed that he left, that "My career is finished now." He's conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is...?

Prabhupāda: Conscious that "I have been victimized by woman, a sannyāsī. So my career in this institution finished." He knows that. "Nobody will take me seriously." Therefore he left his daṇḍa, went away. Good son, another, but he cannot. Therefore several times I called him; he did not come, that "My career is finished." This consciousness, where you'll find? And here, even a man is fallen, he's also conscious, "How much I am fallen." (break) ...is that when a person is fallen, he is conscious that "I am fallen." (break) It was beaten. (pause) (break)

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm? So my fear is that after training our men so much, if he's lost, that's a great loss. Then future of society becomes very hopeless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the principle is that if a householder has outside employment and can pay, then he can live inside our temple buildings.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. What is the wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least for five or six years now the system has been that no man and woman should live together in the same building as where the Deity is.

Prabhupāda: That is the system. Temple is meant for retired men. Brahmacārī, sannyāsī, vānaprastha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then how we can let them live together, man and woman?

Prabhupāda: But if there is no alternative, what can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. No, but there is alternative always. There are available rooms and apartments just adjoining the temples.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right, but he must be connected with temple.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, if he marries, why he should not take responsibility of maintaining? Why he should marry if he has no power of maintaining?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that mean, "power of maintaining," Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: He must maintain his wife, children nicely. Otherwise why he should marry?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He shouldn't expect the temple to maintain him.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, he might be thinking, "Well, I'm a pūjārī, so the temple should pay me money to maintain my family."

Prabhupāda: If we have got brahmacārī pūjārī, why should we maintain a gṛhastha? He is not only one pūjārī. We have got sannyāsī, brahmacārī. Why should we maintain a gṛhastha? And where is the means? After all, these things are to be adjusted. I can give you the ideas. The pūjārīs were given in Vṛndāvana the temple, and they made it a source of income. Just like the gosāis are doing. Their pūjā goes to hell.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Mean these gṛhastha pūjārī. Gradually the pūjā will go to hell. They'll gradually glide down how to maintain family by showing the Deity. That is... The gosāis are doing. People have sentiment to give something to the Deity, and they will depend on that income. Bas. This is the position of these Vṛndāvana temple. What is the position of the Rādhā-Ramaṇa? Deterioration. It is not being properly done. They'll sell the property.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Śrutakīrti is also gṛhastha. So jointly you can work and improve this movement. That is our ambition. Gṛhe bā banete thāke, hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke, narottama māge tāra saṅga. "Either he remains at home or as a sannyāsī, if he is devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga, I want his association." That is Narottama Ṭhākura's... Gṛhe bā banete thāke, hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke, narottama māge tāra saṅga. So follow the principles, and whichever position is suitable. Don't be carried away by the waves of māyā. Capture Caitanya Mahāprabhu and you'll be saved. Is that all right? Don't leave us. You are quite... At least you made advance. You are one of the important devotees. So don't lose that position now. Manage in the position you want to remain. Now Gaurasundara has also come. So I'm glad to see that you are... Your bunch of hair is long. Yes. Cut it. So give them place to stay nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Prasādam. And remain here for some time. Of course, according to my horoscope, these days are my last days. But if Kṛṣṇa saves, that is a different thing. They have calculated eighty-two years and two days?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighty-one years, five months, and twenty-eight days.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English. One British physician has proposed that now all old people should be killed to make room for enough young people.

Balavanta: He says they are useless in society. Actually they haven't taken sannyāsa, they're not preaching, so these old people are simply useless.

Prabhupāda: Actually they are useless. (laughter) So our challenge to this science society is all right? Hm? What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: Challenge them to produce even a small living being? What can he do? He can only say, "In the future."

Prabhupāda: That is useless. Then kill them. No future. Immediately. Why future?

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any ādā? Is that what Prabhupāda asked? You asked for ādā, Prabhupāda? Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of your sannyāsī preachers has just arrived, Haṁsadūta Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Within one or two days every GBC and sannyāsī will be here to come and do kīrtana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They've come to take care of you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so many fathers.

Prabhupāda: Please do that.

Hari-śauri: That is our greatest pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Purī Mahārāja: (Bengali) Where is he? He is in charge of Colombo. Where...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahmānanda Mahārāja?

Purī Mahārāja: Not Brahmānanda Mahārāja.

Hari-śauri: Hṛdayānanda. South America?

Purī Mahārāja: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Haṁsadūta. Here he is.

Purī Mahārāja: Haṁsadūta. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took sannyāsa.

Purī Mahārāja: Ha. I have seen him, but I could not able to... Haṁsadūta. He sings well. Last parikrama I saw him.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do you know about the conference?

Kīrtanānanda: About what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About the conference.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So cooperate. You have heard what the arrangement?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You have heard about the arrangement here in the conference?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm inviting, requesting all the GBCs, and also the sannyāsīs, mahārājas, to kindly attend the conference unless they're engaged at that time.

Prabhupāda: According to horoscope, life is finished. Still, I am living. What should be the interpretation?

Kīrtanānanda: The interpretation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: About the conference?

Prabhupāda: No, about... About me.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The conference is going on. Anybody who's required in the conference is there. But some of the sannyāsīs and GBC's are choosing to go to Bhagatji's. But the conference people who are involved, they are all at the conference, and many devotees are there also. I think it's all right.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Page Title:Sannyasa (Conversations, 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, MadhuGopaldas
Created:22 of Jul, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=87, Let=0
No. of Quotes:87