Prabhupāda: The first scene is that people passing on with saṅkīrtana movement as we have, as we usually do, very nice procession with mṛdaṅga, karatālas and that bugle, all people, just in the ordinary way. We have to make a nice procession. The second scene is that Kali, the personified Kali, a person should be decorated blackish. A blackish man with royal dress and very ugly features. And his queen, another ugly featured girl or lady. So they are disturbed. They'll talk between themselves that "There is saṅkīrtana movement now and how we shall prosecute our business of this Kali-yuga?" There will be, in that scene, in some corner somebody is drinking. Two or three persons drinking. The scene will be like that. They are sitting in the center. In one corner somebody taking part in drinking, and another part somebody is illicitly talking of lust and love with woman. In another section there is slaughtering of a cow, and another section gambling. In this way that scene should be adjusted. And in the middle, the ugly man, black man, and the ugly woman will talk that "We are now in danger. The saṅkīrtana movement has been started. What to do?" In this way you have to finish that scene.
Sankirtana movement (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They're all devotees. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was propagating His saṅkīrtana movement the brāhmaṇas, the orthodox brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "This is not according to Hindu śāstra. This is something new." But only these two gentlemen, they... Advaita happened to be the head of the brāhmaṇa community. So his support... And he was a well-to-do man, he was rich man, influential man. His support made Caitanya's movement successful in Nabadwip. He was a very influential man. And similarly, Śrīnivāsa, he was also, he belonged to the brāhmaṇa community. And Advaita gave shelter to Haridāsa. Haridāsa was a Muhammadan. So he was punished by the Muhammadan magistrate and he took shelter at the house of Advaita. He was maintaining him. You can make them appear in the scene. They were talking between Haridāsa and Śrīnivāsa and Advaita and all of them chanting and dancing, "Now our mission is fulfilled."
Prabhupāda: Second act. Then Lord Caitanya's saṅkīrtana organization in the house of Śrīnivāsa. Śrīnivāsācārya. The saṅkīrtana movement was... They were all chanting together Hare Kṛṣṇa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked the devotees that "Hello, My dear friends. What do you want to eat?" So some of them said... That was out of season, and still some of them asked that "We shall be very glad if You give us some mangoes." (laughs) So Lord Caitanya said that "All right. You just bring one seed of mango." So in Bengal there is, seed of mango is available always because the people in the village, they eat mango and throw it in the ground, they say they come out as tree, creeper. So it is not very difficult. So he brought some creeper like that, and he sowed it, and at once it became a tree, and there was sufficient quantity of mango fruits. So all the devotees were distributed. And that mango tree remained there and they were taking mango every day. And in that scene, just try to... The next scene is brāhmaṇas' dissatisfaction.
Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint.
Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."
Prabhupāda: No. Renunciation... Now this Chand Kazi, he was... This movement when He was about 20 years old. Do you follow?
Hayagrīva: The saṅkīrtana was when He was around 20. The Kazi.
Prabhupāda: The saṅkīrtana was going on.
Hayagrīva: When He was 16, 15.
Prabhupāda: But practically He started this saṅkīrtana movement vigorously from the age of 15 years. But when He was 20 years old, when the movement took very nice appearance, the brāhmaṇas complained. So this movement was about 20 years old when... Then renunciation...
Hayagrīva: He's 24 now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation. So one day it so happened that instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya was chanting, "Gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī," instead of chanting "Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa." So He had a small school. The brāhmaṇas, generally they keep a small school which is called catuṣpaṭhī.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If one has got very good mother, one has got very good wife, and one has got very good son, then his homely life is heaven. That is the standard of happiness. So He was young man, and although He had a wife, He knew that He would give up, that He did not begot children. So His children were His devotees. Vṛndāvana dasa Ṭhākura has worshiped Him, saputrāya sakala traya: "My dear Lord, I offer my obeisances unto You along with Your sons." So Vṛndāvana dasa Ṭhākura is offering obeisances Lord Caitanya, and specifically mentioning, "with Your sons." Where are the sons? He did not beget any children. So His sons means His devotees, His followers. Kalatrāya means wife.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had all these facilities. He was learned, very honored young man in His country; He had many followings. In one incidence we can understand how beloved leader He was. The Kazi challenged His saṅkīrtana movement and first times warned Him not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and when He did not care for it, then he ordered that, er, that mṛdaṅga should be broken. So the constables came and broke the mṛdaṅgas. This information was given to Lord Caitanya, and He ordered civil disobedience. He was the first man in the history of India who started this civil disobedience movement. It is not Gandhi who is the originator of civil disobedience; it was Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Of course, so long we have got this material body, some material consideration must be there. (chuckles) That is not possible to avoid completely.
Devotee (1): They shouldn't force her to get married, though. That was kind of a bad choice that they gave her, "Either get married or don't come on saṅkīrtana." You can't force somebody.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that wasn't the situation. It was not that choice.
Devotee (1): What? You can't... I mean to say that you can't force somebody to get married. You know. That isn't proper.
Prabhupāda: There was no force. There was no force. Only proposal. That's all. When it was proposed before me, I also said, "It depends on the choice." So anyway, go on with your work, saṅkīrtana movement you have started. It is very nice. And it is being responded. So increase it. If simply brahmacārīs can do it, that is best.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We would all like it that way. We would prefer it that way.
Prabhupāda: Or married couple. If some girls want to go, then she may marry somebody. That will be nice. Of course, in your country there is no such restriction if unmarried girls go with you. But if she is married, that is better. So you make your choice in that way. So she is going? This girl?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You can make scene that people, His disciples, are performing kīrtana and one scene you can make Kazi, Muslim magistrate, is sitting, and the brāhmaṇas, they come. "Sir, you are our protector. You are Kazi. You are magistrate. And this Nimāi Paṇḍita, young boy, He is creating so much disturbance." "What is that?" "He has begun this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is not our Hindu religion. He is chanting so loudly. Now this is the time God is sleeping. So He'll be disturbed. So the whole society will be vanquished if God becomes angry. So He'll be disturbed." So Kazi... After all, Hindus are complaining. So Kazi said, "All right, I am taking steps." So he sent some officers. And they were playing mṛdaṅga, and warned that "You cannot do this. You are disturbing here." That is going on still. Just like our Los Angeles, it is going on. In New York also, they complain to the Kazi, (laughs) police officer. But they could not do anything. So this complaint is going on since the inauguration of the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi first of all warned. Then He did not care. Then the police also came and broke the mṛdaṅgas forcibly. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right. We shall start thousands of men playing mṛdaṅga, and we shall go to the house of Kazi. Let us see what can he do." So He went with many followers, and many followers playing mṛdaṅga, and Kazi became afraid that "The people have become agitated." So he fled away. Then the people began to create disturbance in his garden. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Don't do this." Then Kazi came back, and Kazi was very submissive, and he said, "My dear Nimāi, You are in relationship my nephew." Because Hindus and Muslims in those days, although they had different religions, they had no animosity. They were living very friendly.
Prabhupāda: "Why killing father and mother?" "Oh, you are killing cow, your mother. You are drinking milk. And oxen, he produces grains for you in the field; so he is your father. The father earns for the children, so he is producing grains. And mother gives milk; so cow is giving milk. So how is your religion that the father mother killing?" Then he could understand that Caitanya is marking on the cow killing by the Mohammedans. Then he said, "Oh, this cow killing is also in your Hindu religion." Then He said, "How is that, Hindu religion cow killing?" "Oh, there is cow sacrifice." Then He said that cow sacrifice is not like this. Cow sacrifice is giving new life to the old cow. That is cow sacrifi... It is not killing. And because at the present moment the brāhmaṇas are not so qualified that they can give new life, therefore that sacrifice is now forbidden. He cited some verses from Vedic literature that cow sacrifice and horse sacrifice and to beget children by the younger brother of husband and sannyāsa, and offering oblations with meat, these things are forbidden. So that is past. This is... Now it has no significance. In this way, both of them were scholars. Then they compromised. Agreement was the Kazi gave order everyone of his descendants, that "Nobody will check this saṅkīrtana movement." So that order is being carried by their descendants still there in Nabadwip. The Kazi has got his tomb. He was a very big man.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (1) (woman): Prabhupāda, is Lord Caitanya always carrying on saṅkīrtana in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We cannot understand God by our present senses. So the senses are to be purified. And that purification begins: sevonmukha, by engaging the tongue, jihvādau, in the delightful activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So practically we are getting result. These boys, they were very morose, but now they are very delightful simply by following this method, engaging the tongue in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Tongue has got two business: tasting and chanting, vibrating. So they are vibrating harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), and tasting Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And we are practically seeing that they are becoming delightful, living very happily, preaching all over the world. I started this movement alone in 1966, but these boys, inexperienced boys, having no spiritual training... They were trained up in their own ways, meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, but they gave up all these habits and delightfully they are going any part of the world and preaching this cult, and we are meeting with success. It is not that I have gone every place. It is not possible. I am old man. So I give them direction. Just like this boy. He's a gṛhastha. So husband and wife, they are organizing in Germany. We have got four, five branches in Germany. We have published this record and so many books and literatures. So this Saṅkīrtana Movement, even though conducted by inexperienced young men, but they are creating delight to the masses.
Prabhupāda: "But I have no attachment for this hari-kīrtana." Saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale: "My heart is always burning in material existence." Juḍāite nā koinu upāy: "But I did not make any means by which I can get out of it." Brajendra-nandana jei, śacī-suta hoilo sei: "Formerly the same Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who was, who appeared as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He has again appeared as the son of Śacīdevī." And balarāma hoilo nitāi: "And Balarāma has appeared as Nityānanda Prabhu." So their business is: dīna-hīna jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, all sorts of sinful men, and materially suffering men, all of them have been delivered by these two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, by preaching the saṅkīrtana movement. Tāra śākṣī jagāi mādhāi: "They have delivered all kinds of sinful men. The evidence is Jagāi and Mādhāi." Hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, you are now standing with Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu. So it is my appeal." Koruṇā karoho ei-bāro: "Kindly be kind upon me." Narottama-dāsa koy: "Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, 'Don't kick me out. I have no other shelter. Please take me.' "
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Viṣṇujana: We felt it was Nityānanda's grace.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Viṣṇujana: First we were afraid. Haridāsa Brahmacārī told me: "Oh, these are Mohammedans. They'll not help us in any way, nor will they accept prasādam." But then I said let us go...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone will help us. Maybe... In that way sometimes Hindus are also against. It is not the Mohammedans. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, even the Hindus were against His movement, the brāhmaṇas. They complained to the Kazi that "This is not Hindu movement." You see? The saṅkīrtana movement. Therefore Kazi had to take steps to stop the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi took step on the ground of complaint by the Hindus.
Prabhupāda: So this is our duty. Just like in this particular case, about our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that so many people are giving me the credit. Actually, I have no credit. It is already desired or it is already planned that "This time in Western countries, this saṅkīrtana movement..." So it is our duty. Similarly, our only duty is to carry out the order of the Supreme. Other things is already done by Him. So if we abide by the orders of the Supreme, then we get the credit. We should know that. So our only thing is to abide by the... That is... Another place, Bhagavad-gītā, is explained
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
- ekeha kuru-nandana
- bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
- buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
- (BG 2.41)
So those who are vyavasāya, niścayātmika-buddhi, their duty is to carry out the orders of the Supreme. And the Supreme is giving order in two ways: as caittya-guru from within and as spiritual master. Inside and outside.
Bhagavān: French literature. He's asking for French literature.
Jyotirmayī: He translated the Tukārāma in French.
Prabhupāda: Tukārāma. Tukārāma is great Vaiṣṇava devotee of Maharastra. His movement was saṅkīrtana movement.
Devotee: He was the one who was initiated by Lord Caitanya?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: This was southern India?
Priest: Maharastra.
Prabhupāda: Maharastra, yes. Southwest.
Nitāi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is there some gradual development in all those nine processes of devotional service, beginning from hearing?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). This chanting and hearing should be in the association of devotees. First of all, one must have faith that chanting is good. Then he should chant in the society of the devotees. Then it will develop. He can chant anywhere. But if he chants along... Therefore saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir milita. Many devotees, chanting together, that is called saṅkīrtana. So one, our movement is saṅkīrtana movement, many devotees together would chant the holy name of God. Then it is very quickly successful. Just like a person who comes to our center in the association of the devotees, after few weeks, he also becomes devotee. Quickly. And there are many others, they are seeing that there is a group like this, but because they do not come, they do not understand. Therefore the quick development process is to execute devotional service in the association of devotees, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83).
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one song written where the writer said that the reason the Americans won the war was because God is on their side.
Prabhupāda: So, that is the fact. Unless God desired, how they can win? That, we admit that.
Hari-śauri: But now they are again becoming a mouse, the Americans? Now they are losing the favor of God?
Prabhupāda: No, they are right officially: "We trust in God." (break) ...the whole, I think, Americans are fortunate because this saṅkīrtana movement is there. Yes. If they take it more seriously, they will be actually favored nation of the Lord.
Hari-śauri: At the present moment it seems that the Communist movement seems to be taking over more and more countries.
Prabhupāda: "One intimation that you wanted to see me."
Lalitā: No, I approached her. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: "She approached you for meeting with me..., with you for a meeting"?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "For me."
Prabhupāda: "For me with you. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called saṅkīrtana movement. Sometimes they call Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also if some vigorous activity is done for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the Indian people under your leadership, it will be very, very effective."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Harikeśa: He just wanted to know if someone was allowed to come for darśana.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let them come. This time, five to seven? (conchshell sounds) (Bengali) (break) Śrīmad-bhāgavata-dharma is for the person who is not jealous. Paramo nirmatśarāṇāṁ (SB 1.1.2). This very word is used in the beginning, that "This bhāgavata-dharma is meant for persons who is not jealous." Otherwise the material, whole world is full of jealousy. Even during the time of Kṛṣṇa there was Paundra, out of jealousy. And there were so many. Beginning from Kṛṣṇa's birth the asuras were jealous—"How to kill Kṛṣṇa." This is the whole mat.... Even in the higher planetary system the jealousy is there, asuras and the devas, devasura. So our business is, as instructed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. This jealousy will go on. Therefore one has to learn how to tolerate jealousy. Kīrtaniyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). If one wants to push on this saṅkīrtana movement.... Prabhupāda.... We are insignificant creature. So many persons. You cannot avoid it. The best way is to learn how to tolerate. That is very nice. Otherwise Caitanya Mahāprabhu not have said, taror api sahiṣṇunā. That is the best. So we are not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, neither like Prabhupāda, and we shall have to learn to tolerate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. They make a lot of information available on the.... In other words, it'll help our saṅkīrtana movement because they make inquiries into the freedom of an individual, for example, to.... As we want to distribute literature in various countries, they have so much facts and figures on where that would be possible.
Prabhupāda: And the newsreel will say that this saṅkīrtana movement is nuisance, it is disturbance. Then what they'll do?
Rāmeśvara: There's also some respectability if we become connected with...
Prabhupāda: That is all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's prestigious, and it also allows us to have a lot of information available. Just like, as we're finding out, for example, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja is working with our lawyer here, and we find that we have the legal right to distribute in airports. Legally, we have the right. Similarly, there are legal rights for our saṅkīrtana movement in various countries in the world, and through this group we would get access to all information on what the legal position is and other things of this kind.
Prabhupāda: That is another misgiving. They will never be able to learn Sanskrit, and neither it is possible that by learning Sanskrit they will be elevated. There are many Sanskrit scholars. So how they are elevated? They are rotting. It is not a good suggestion, this. If the harijana actually becomes harijana, then it will benefit. That training we can give. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we can make a harijana, a so-called, I mean to say, camaras, bhangis... Now they understand harijana means he must be a camara or bhangi. But that is not the actual... harijana means devotee, "The man of Hari." So in spite of their illiteracy in Sanskrit language, we can make him harijana, actually. So why do you take the trouble of learning Sanskrit? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni means low-grade birth. So anyone. That includes the camaras, bhangis, they can be purified if they take to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. The best thing is to induce them to come to Kṛṣṇa. Then they will be purified. And the simple method is recommended by Kṛṣṇa Himself and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His incarnation: this kīrtana. Engage them in saṅkīrtana movement which is being pushed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and they will be purified. They don't require to learn Sanskrit even. As he, it is. Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they will be purified. And if you want to teach them Sanskrit, it will take three thousand years. (laughter) That is impossible.
| Page Title: | Sankirtana movement (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 20 of Jul, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=22, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 22 |