Prabhupāda: So we are called conditioned soul because we are conditioned according to this body. Deha-yogena dehinām. The..., according to karma, the certain privileges or disadvantages, what you are destined to receive, that is already a fact according to your birth. Just like somebody's suffering from asthma, so he has got a body from a father and mother, and from the very beginning there is asthma. That body is the symptom or the result of his past karma. Therefore the material advantages or disadvantages are already settled up according to karma. So those who are sane man, they are confident that "Kṛṣṇa has given me this body according to my past karma, so let me not improve. Let me not waste my time for improving the advantages and disadvantages of this material world." But you cannot do it. The body is already there, according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). It is already given to you. So people should be satisfied. Just like when I got this body of an ass, so you can test. And the advantage and (indistinct) that ass is meant for becoming beast of burden. He has to do that. Similarly, there is a body, the hog, he has to eat stool. So we should know it, that either we are born in such a country, such society, the body is there, and I can get my happiness and distress according to this body. This is settled up. But they do not know. They're simply trying to, unnecessary wasting time for bodily comforts. "Oh, you are so comfortable. Let me try." Huh? "I shall try also." So Prahlāda Maharaja says, "No, don't waste your time like that. Your time is very valuable."
Sane man (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"sane and insane person"
|"sane and intelligent man"
|"sane and reasonable man"
|"sane human being"
|"sane human beings"
|"sane male"
|"sane man"
|"sane men"
|"sane people"
|"sane person"
|"sane persons"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, if one is actually learned, scientific, he must admit. He must admit, unless he is a lunatic, rascal. He will say all these nonsense things, "Chance." Why chance? What is taking place within your practical experience by chance? If by prearrangement we would not come here, then who would care for it? Even on the street we could not lie down. Nobody allow. the police will arrest. "Who are these men?" How do you say chance? Everything is done by prearrangement. The chance is an explanation given by the rascals and fools. They are not sane men. There cannot be anything by chance. We got up on the train, and the train is running, and it is all chance? There is a huge management behind the train. Therefore we are comfortably seated, and we come to the destination right in the time. All these are chances? What is that...? He has written such a big book. What is his reason that chance? What reason he has given? I have not read. You have read?
Prabhupāda: He was advocating non-violence, but he was forced to die by violence. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. He was forced to accept partition of India. He was so much baffled, but still, he would not give up politics until he was killed. On the day of his death, in the morning, because he had so many letters, so many secretaries, so he said, "I am very much useless. I want to die." He said like that. And actually, in the evening he was killed. He was thinking that "My next solace is only death," because he could understand, "I have created simply problems. No problem I have solved. I have simply created problem." He was a sane man. He could understand it. So similarly, everyone is creating simply problems, without solving... This United Nations, what they are doing for the last twenty years? Simply creating problems. So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no question of solving problems. That's a fact. Any sane man, any philosopher, any scientist may come. I shall convince him.
Prabhupāda: Well, it is still man's duty to become the husband and woman's duty to become the wife; so these propensities are there. But all this can be adjusted. I have many students and am getting them married, and they are living peacefully and advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that everyone is brahmacārī. We have many gṛhasthas and children. In this way the propensities of the women and those of the man are adjusted. A man wants a woman, and a woman wants a man, so we say, "All right, take it. Live peacefully, but don't change partners." We don't allow divorce; once they're married there is no separation. Nor do we allow boys and girls to live together as friends. If a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man, they should become united by marriage, live peacefully and advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. In this way all facilities are there in this movement. Our program is to make people become godly, and everyone should help us. Every sane man should help this movement for the good of society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I cannot say... Suppose if I become president, and if I want to say that stop this slaughterhouse, immediately I will be removed. So I cannot do anything, even if I become president, so why shall I accept this post? No sane man, no gentleman will go to the post because he knows he will not be able to do anything for the welfare of the public.
Jayatīrtha: They're so corrupt.
Prabhupāda: So corrupt. (indistinct) Even one wants to do... just like President Kennedy, he wanted to do something good—he was shot down. Gandhi wanted to do something—he was shot down. So the politics is so corrupted that as soon as you are prepared to do something actually, you will be killed.
Prabhupāda: They like us?
Jayatīrtha: Some of them, they recognize (indistinct). Oftentimes they like us (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will like us.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are fighting how to stop drugs coming from different countries, the smuggling of gāñjā and all this. (indistinct conversation)
Prabhupāda: (as man passes by) Foolish man (indistinct).
Jayatīrtha: Sunday morning now instead of going to church, they go play golf.
Devotee (2): (break) ...exercise so you can walk around. But now they have those electric cars so they don't have to walk anywhere.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). So there was a circle of friends. So all the friends conspired to make another friend bewildered. So they conspired that "As soon as you meet that gentleman you cry, 'Oh, here is a ghost! Here is a ghost! Here is a ghost!' " So all the friends, they come (indistinct), "Oh! You are dead, you are ghost, you are ghost!" So after ten times like that, he thought, "Have I become a ghost?" Then he became bewildered, "Whether really I have become ghost, I am dead?" He became puzzled. This is like that: "There was no human being, there was no human being," and all the rascals are now thinking whether this is right. This is cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). If you make conspiracy, even the sane man will think himself that "I have become ghost."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you can understand English then. So (Sanskrit). Duṣkṛtinaḥ means... kṛtiḥ means meritorious, very meritorious. But duṣkṛtiḥ. Whatever merit he has got... Nowadays at the present moment the civilization is so mad that everyone as human being... Any human being he has got some merit because he is not cat and dog. He's a man. As a man he has got brain, better than the cats and dogs. That's a fact. And actually they're doing so many things. Just like this picture. It is a very meritorious workmanship. So everyone can do some meritorious workmanship. But when that workmanship is diverted to, for the use of sinful activities... Just like one man is very meritorious, he's planning to form a party how to plunder. This requires merit. Without merit you cannot form a party. But the merit is being used for plundering, for harassing, for so many other sinful activities. So that is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there but the merit is being misused for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtiḥ. Just like modern scientist. It is meritorious that they have discovered the atomic bomb. The merit is used for killing. If you just use your merit so that man may live; that they're dying. Everyone is dying. So you have discovered a bomb which will accelerate death. Death, everyone is going to die. So if you manufacture something which will actually help my death, is that very meritorious? If you discover something that will stop my death, that is meritorious. But everyone is dying and you have discovered some machine so that you can die quickly. What is the merit? But people are appreciating, "Oh, this is meritorious." This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. Duṣkṛtiḥ, mean one has got merit, it is being spoiled for doing something wrong. This is called duṣkṛtiḥ. So such people, duṣkṛtinaḥ, who, one who is using the merit for sinful activities, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15) and rascal. Rascal means denying the existence of God. He's a rascal. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he's a rascal. Rascal means poor fund of knowledge. Everything... Suppose this is a country, Indonesia, nicely being managed; the roads are there; the policemen there, they're directing... Just yesterday we were trying to enter in a one way, policeman directs. So this symptom says that there is a good government. So any sane man, he'll see the cosmic manifestation—that the sun is rising exactly in time; the moon is rising exactly in time; the seasons are changing; the seas is in its position.
Prabhupāda: So they are all thieves.
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how we, a sane man can trust a thief? A sane man cannot trust a thief. There are so many things. They could not produce even a grass, even a small plant in the biology, chemistry laboratory, and still they're claiming it is product of biology, chemistry. What is this nonsenses. What kind of scientists there are?
Locana: We couldn't even choose when we were born.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Locana: We couldn't even choose being born here.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). A big animal is being praised by dogs, and hogs, camel, monkeys. So they're getting Nobel Prize from dogs, hogs, camels. They're not getting Nobel Prize from any sane man. That is stated. Śva-viḍ. Śva means dog. Viḍ-varāha means the stool-eater, hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel. And kharaḥ means ass. So they're being praised by these classes of animal. They're not human being. If anyone gives Nobel Prize to such rascals, that means the man, the committee, who is giving the Nobel Prize to him, they are composition of these animals, dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. According to Bhāgavata. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think I have explained it.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Anyone who does that is either criminal or insane.
Prabhupāda: Yes, insane. All criminality is done when one is insane. That is the definition of the Vedas. Everyone is criminal when he's insane. Sane man never commits any criminality. Just like when a, when a man commits murder, unless he becomes insane, he cannot commit murder.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So among the college students, among the college students it's very common that they say: "I don't care what is said." These people, students.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to, I want to follow my own aim and desire, my own morality. They say like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No sane man will do it. But death is sure. You are making very nice foundation. But you'll have to leave. You cannot remain there. That, they do not know. Jawaharlal Nehru worked for... Gandhi worked for his country so much. Now where they are? Nobody knows.
Brahmānanda: Where?
Prabhupāda: Where is Jawaharlal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi? They worked so hard for nation. Now he's dead and gone. Now where he is? Neither the nation knows. Whether he has now... Some astrologer told that he has become a dog in Sweden.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has become a dog...?
Prabhupāda: Dog.
Prabhupāda: To have good association.
Devotee: Pardon me.
Prabhupāda: If you keep yourself with the rascals, then you'll think like rascals. And if you keep yourself with sane men, then you'll think like sane men. Association. That is required. That is the only way.
Devotee: And then, and then for detachment, it's just constant austeri...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: For detachment, it's just austerities?
Prabhupāda: Detachment, when you'll understand that this is good, this is bad, naturally you'll have detachment for the bad. Unless you know this is good, this is bad, how there can be detachment? When you are offered two kinds of foodstuff, and if you know: "This is good, this is bad," then naturally you have detachment for the bad and pick up the good. First of all you have to know what is good and bad. Then, when you are convinced, naturally you know: "Oh, this should not be taken."
Prabhupāda: ...or you call spirit soul or ātmā. That you can distinguish. As soon as the vital force is off from this body, this body is a lump of matter. Therefore even if you do not know the spirit soul, any sane man can guess that something is missing in this body. Therefore this body is called dead. Now, that something is described definitely, is soul. So we can distinguish between the spirit and soul, some way or other. So as there is material world, there must be some spiritual world. Otherwise how the spirit is there? The spirit is there, the soul is there. That is spiritual. So two things we are experiencing: spirit and matter. So as we are experiencing this material world, so similarly there must be a spiritual world. There must be a spiritual world. Otherwise wherefrom the spirit comes?
David Lawrence: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the only remedy is
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
This is the only, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy for rectification all the misgivings. Therefore any sane man, any thoughtful man, should try to understand the importance of this movement, and they should come and help. This is the...
Reporter: Hm. But what...?
Prabhupāda: It is most scientific.
Prabhupāda: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mūḍhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Professor: And in India where is your āśrama or something like that?
Prabhupāda: My main āśrama is in Vṛndāvana.
Professor: Where?
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.
Professor: Oh, in Vṛndāvana, itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyāpura. Lord Caitanya. And we have got branch in Calcutta, Bombay, Hyderabad. Māyāpura and Vṛndāvana. Five, six... (break) I, I brought with me forty rupees and books. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone likes. Yes. Even Christian priests they also like. No, any sane man will like because... Somebody sends me money: "Sir, you are doing so nice work, spreading God consciousness. Here is my little contribution."
Professor: I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. From your, these Western countries. Just week before, I got hundred dollars from one gentleman. Simply appreciated that I am spreading God consciousness. So actually we have no program of proselytizing or making Hindu from Christian, Christian... We have no such program. We simply want to see that everyone is God conscious. Never mind through which venue, he becomes a God conscious. It doesn't matter. That is the verdict of Bhāgavata:
Prabhupāda: So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that "I am avatāra, I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we... We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat, and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that. So we are making men of character, men of religion, men of philosophy. Why people should not cooperate with us? We are not presenting any blind, so-called religious faith. No. That is not our business. Our business is śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. You understand little Bengali? You understand Hindi.
Prabhupāda:
- śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra
- vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra
- (CC Adi 8.15)
If you are sane man, if you give due consideration, and then give your judgement, then you'll find that it is wonderful. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. We don't say that you take it blindly. No. Vicāra. After full logic, and consideration, you accept, not blindly. But if you do that, you'll see it is wonderful. It is wonder... So why those who are advanced in education, they should not take this movement seriously and try to understand seriously and cooperate with us? It is not a blind thing. So... Actually, from government level, we are not getting any support. Not... I don't speak in India. Anywhere.
Prabhupāda: No. He believed in God. Yes. He believed in God. He was not a rascal. A sane man.
Paramahaṁsa: Carl Jung also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He believed in God.
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He tried to find out the brain of God. So he's not rascal. He's sane man. Those who are defying God, they're rascal, demons. Einstein believed in God. Yes. There are many scientists, they believe in God. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal. Immediately, take it. We take it like that. As soon as you say godless, atheist, oh, a rascal. That's all. It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect. But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And the demons will never accept God. Just like in Russia. All set of rascals. They do not believe in God.
Prabhupāda: No, knowingly, no sane man will go. But because he is ignorant, he is making plan to be happy, and one day it comes, "Kick out! Go out!" That is ignorance. Therefore śūdra. Therefore our perfection of life should be, that is recommended in the śāstra, brahma-saukhyam anantam. You should aspire of happiness which is unlimited. You will never be kicked out from that happiness. That is the idea. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). This is the instruction. You must try for a place where you get eternal life, eternal bliss, eternal knowledge. That is perfection.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Every sane man should appreciate. When European and American young men, who are after material sense gratification, they're taking sannyāsa, it is not joke. They should appreciate it. In an age where material sense enjoyment is very prominent, and they give up everything for Kṛṣṇa, and they're going far away from their comfortable position... Just like Brahmānanda has gone to Africa. So what for? Unless they appreciate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how they take up this job? This is practical. There is no question of theoretical.
Brahmānanda: You said that last night when you spoke that about we are actually siddhas.
Prabhupāda: It is the duty of everyone that this movement is so important that people are in the darkness of ignorance. They have become so rascal all over the world. It is not a particular country, all over the world. They are living like cats and dogs, eating, sleeping, mating and dying. And we are giving the information what is the value of life. So every sane man take this movement very seriously.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: All the leaders they are teaching simply to live like cats and dogs, that's all. What is the business of cats and dogs? Eat, sleep, have sex life and die and defend. What is the difference in this minister? The defense minister is defending. The cats and dogs also defend. Why minister? They have taken it very important.
Prabhupāda: They may call whatever they like. But we are sane man. We cannot take the... We can say only that "You are all defeated." They may say. A fool will never agree that he's a fool. He'll always say, "I am very intelli..." That is another foolishness. After spending millions of... for one coat for going to the moon planet? Forty-thousand dollar? What is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. Billions of dollars were spent.
Prabhupāda: That coat?
Śrutakīrti: No, coat.
Prabhupāda: You must know that they are all rascals. That I said, rascals, unbelievers. You have to convert them to be sane man. That is preaching.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching. What do you expect that every man will immediately go and he'll agree with you? Why do you expect like that? That is foolishness.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: You must know that everybody will disagree with you, and it is your preaching work that you will make him agree with you. That is your preaching work.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda! As your example.
Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail.
Umāpati: Well, in a madhouse, a sane man is the only one considered mad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." That is already there. So we have to act by the order of Kṛṣṇa, not by the votes of the madmen. Just see the fun. Everyone is under control. Who is free? It is simply illusion. They are thinking, "I am free." Nobody is free. Under the stringent laws of nature, and still, he is thinking, "I don't care for God." This is madness. This is madness. Already under the laws of God, but still, he's protesting, "No, I don't care for God. There is no God." So we have to save these madmen from further deterioration. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Umāpati: Can a living entity ever lose his existence?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is being beaten every moment, every second, and still, he will say, "I am not beaten." That is rascal number one. One is accepting that "Yes, I am being beaten." He is sane man. And one who says that "I am not beaten," he is getting old, and every moment he is being beaten, and still he says, "I am not beaten."
Karandhara: Well they have a philosophy called existentialism, that so long something exists, we can place value on it, but when it ceases to exist, there is no remorse. There is nothing to lament.
Prabhupāda: There is no nothing to lament, but why don't you exist? Why you struggle for existence?
Prabhupāda: But they worry. I have practically seen. They cry.
Karandhara: Well, they just fall short of their philosophy, the philosophy they hold as ideal.
Prabhupāda: So, these are all no argument. No sane man will accept this argu...
Karandhara: Most western people are so frustrated, they accept these philosophies wholeheartedly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is frustration. That is not real life. That is another thing.
Karandhara: But like you say in Bhagavad-gītā, they are so angry with all types of speculation that they become frustrated and disgusted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Frustration is not life. Frustration is frustration, disappointment. That is not life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No... Then the next question is that "If there is a positive philosophy to mitigate the suffering, why don't you accept it?" Just like when one body is suffering, I say, "Take this blanket. Cover." If he says, "No, I am not going to take it," is that sane man?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then he will continue suffering if he doesn't accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our proposition that everyone is suffering and struggling, how to stop the suffering. This is material world. Everyone is suffering. And the struggle is called progress. So we are offering something also: "Here is something, you accept it, and your sufferings will be mitigated." Nobody can say, "No, we are not suffering." That is insanity. Everyone is suffering.
Prabhupāda: But how all of a sudden there can be explosion? What is this nonsense proposition? As soon as there is question of explosion, before the explosion takes place, there must be some arrangement. The time bomb explosion. So the bomb is prepared by something, some bomb is kept by somebody, and after some time it explodes. So how all of a sudden? Where does he get this idea? Just like if there is bomb explosion here, a child may think, "All of a sudden there is a bomb explosion," but a sane man will not think that. There will be inquiry, "Who kept this bomb? Who brought this bomb?" That is sanity. "And all of a sudden explosion," this is all rascal proposal. Therefore the people have become so rascal, guided by these rascals, "All of a sudden, by chance," and they accept them as scientist... This is the drawback of the present civilization. Because they are śūdras, like animals, they have got no brain to answer that "How all of a sudden there can be explosion." They have no brain even to ask. Rather, they are giving Nobel Prize. This rascal is speaking like a rascal, still, he should get Nobel Prize. That is the defect. The people at the present moment, they are all rascals.
Prabhupāda: That's all. No discretion, nothing. This is a civilization of animals, polished animals. Their consciousness has become animalistic. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like children. They are animals, just like animals. They have no fixed program. Whatever they like, they are doing. Whatever they like, they are speaking. Simply they are interested in eating. So at the present moment, because they have lost all their power of reasoning and understanding, they are all animals. "All of a sudden there is an explosion." How explosion can take place like that? Any sane human being will ask that "How is that?" Same example: If there is some explosion in the park, a rascal will say, "All of a sudden there is explosion." But the government, police department, immediately inquire, "How this bomb came? Wherefrom? Who placed it?" That is humanity. That is human reasoning. "And all of a sudden there is explosion," you have to accept that. You accept that?
Prabhupāda: Then? No sane man will accept. The so-called scientists, begin, all beginning is like that. "There were chemicals, these chemicals." Now wherefrom these chemicals came? Who placed these chemicals? They do not ask. Because they are fools, the other fools bluff them and they accept it. But we are not going to accept. We shall inquire. And that is human intelligence.
Girirāja: But they may say "Where did God come from?"
Prabhupāda: No, no, God, not "come from." By experience you are speaking that things are... Just like the explosion. Explosion was there because God was there. Therefore God is there. The explosion cannot take place by chance, all of a sudden. There was somebody, some brain, and that brain is God. Because you say all of a sudden there was explosion, therefore that is the proof of existence of God. Is it clear or not?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...seen that one who is married, he's lamenting, and who is not married, he's also lamenting. Is it not? Ah? One who is married, he's thinking, "Why did I marry? I would have remained free." He's lamenting. And who is not married, "Oh, I did not accept wife. I would have been happy." (laughs) (Hindi) There's a Hindi... It just like (Hindi). One who has eaten, he's also lamenting, and who has not eaten, he's also lamenting. (break) Tṛpyanti neha... That is said in Sanskrit. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Kṛpaṇā, by one's sex life he gets some children and he's... As soon as there is child, there is suffering. The child is suffering and the parents also suffering to take care. So, again he begets another child. Therefore it is said tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Behind this child-producing there is so much difficulties and trouble. He knows that. But again pro... Doing the same thing. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Therefore a sane person, kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Therefore one who is dhīra, one who becomes sober, he tolerates the sensations, itching sensations. It is after all itching sensation. So one who can tolerate the itching sensation, he saves so much trouble. But one who cannot, he's implicated, immediately. Either illicit or legitimate, it is trouble. Yan maithunādi... That is the only happiness in this material world.
Devotee: Ten rupees Kg. For one rupee (indistinct) first-class wheat.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that, "We have done so much." What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.
Devotee: With the machines they're mixing stones in the rice.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: With machine help, they're mixing stone in the rice.
Prabhupāda: ...purāṇas, not new manufactured. (break) If I have to offer my obeisances and surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why an imitation Kṛṣṇa? Why? Just like if you go to purchase some medicine, the shopkeeper may say, "Now, here is a medicine equal to this medicine, and its price is less." So no sane man will purchase. "Why I shall purchase the imitation for being less price? Give me the original." (break) ...the life of Ramakrishna. It is said that at the time of his death he said to his disciples, especially to Vivekananda, that "I am the same Rāma, I am the same Kṛṣṇa," and he took it. And he preached that "This Gadadhara Chatterjee, Ramakrishna." That's all. Then if he is referring to the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, so why not take the original Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? What is the proof? Simply by his words one can accept? Just like he is taking the proof, Arjuna. Yes.
Prabhupāda: What they will debate? If they debate like rascal, that is another thing. If they debate like sane man, then there cannot be any difference of opinion. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So what is your debate on this point, that living entities, they flourish by food grains? So what is your debate on this point?
Yogeśvara: Well, they may agree that the teachings are good, but they can't accept it as proof that Kṛṣṇa was God.
Prabhupāda: Well, then you have to give me definition of God. What is God? If you know God, then you can say that "Kṛṣṇa is not God." Otherwise, how you can say He is not God? I give you a piece of gold: If you say, "It is not gold," then you show me what is gold. Otherwise, you are talking nonsense. If you do not know the things as it is, how you can say, "It is not this"? If you know the positive, then you can say the negative.
Prabhupāda: No, material world we can see that it is useless. Everyone sees. That I am giving, this example. Before, the Romans, they constructed this big, big building. Now what is the value of that? It has no value. Simply it is kept as sentiment, relics. That's all. So this will be also the same thing. So where is the utility? Spiritual, apart from spiritual, what is the value of your material activity? It is practical. Everyone can see. If one comes to Rome, they can see that these big, big buildings, they were very nice building at that time, very wonderful building, but what is the value of it now? Anyone can see. Any sane man can see. So why should we waste our energy in that way? If there is any valuable work, let us see. That is intelligence. To make another heaps of relics, is that very good sense? Nobody will go there even to urine or pass stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will admit it. Cow is giving milk-mother. And bull is producing food—he is father. And they are being killed? Is that human society? How they can be happy? There is no possibility. Regularly they are maintaining slaughterhouse especially for the cows and bulls. Why don't you slaughter the dogs and hogs and eat if you are meat-eater? There are many meat-eaters who eat dogs. Dog is useless. You can eat. Hog is also useless. They are eating also dog and hog, everything, whatever they...
Yogeśvara: His point was that they can... He was thinking that man has the capacity for resolving his own problems. Simply we have to come together and organize.
Bhagavān: When you had your talk several years ago with the professor in Russia, he made the point, when you were discussing about the regulative principles, that if you follow these principles, then your life becomes very simple, and if you don't follow these principles, life becomes very complicated. He appreciated that one point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will appreciate. Our... Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Without anartha-nivṛtti... Anartha-nivṛtti means stopping all unwanted things. Anartha. Anartha means which does not give us any profit and unnecessarily we are accustomed. Suppose we do not take any intoxicant. So what is our inconvenience? But people are spending millions and millions of dollars only for smoking. Therefore it is useless, anartha. But they cannot give it up. And condition is that without anartha-nivṛtti, there cannot be attachment for God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the disease is because he has forgotten his own self, therefore he is suffering. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that actually that is the actual problem, to find out our real self.
Prabhupāda: Suppose a man, a sane man, has become insane. That insanity should be cured. Then he becomes a sane man. (French)
Yogeśvara: Yes, he must understand that he is crazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He must know... He may understand or not understand. Somehow or other, he has become crazy. So if the craziness is cured, then he is normal man.
Bhagavān: Yogeśvara, let Pṛthu translate.
Pṛthu Putra: His point... He says if a man understands that he is crazy, then he is not crazy any more.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So any sane man will appreciate our activities. We are doing simply to turn people's attention towards God, that's all. That will make him happy.
Sudāsa(?): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's been several places in the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you say how we have to get the class of men, how if the leaders take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness then...
Prabhupāda: Others will follow.
Devotee: The mass will follow. Some other times I've heard you say, like the other day, that the masses of people... When Balavanta Prabhu was running for office you were saying that it'd be very difficult to get our present-day leaders to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'd just like to try to understand further, whether it is the masses or the leaders?
Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be any problem. Just like I am speaking to you. If you are sane man, you will have to admit this. The mistake you will have to admit, if you are a sane man. If you are something else, then you will not admit the mistake.
Reporter: Uh huh. But...
Prabhupāda: Now, the mistake is... You are talking with me; I am talking with you. Your body is there, my body. But which is important? Your body is important, or the force which is talking, that is important? Which is important?
Reporter: The force.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So who is giving? Where is the educational institution to give lesson about this living force? Is there any education all over the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... I am saying, what I am saying to you, that "God is great, and everyone is servant." Can you deny this? Can you deny this?
Reporter: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? What is the difficulty? Nobody, no sane man, will deny it.
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So these things are there. God is great, we are all subordinate, and we are maintained. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. This is the Vedic information. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So this principle should be broadcast. People should know what is his position.
Prabhupāda: That is very good. That is our philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumārtho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says, "That is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him." That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaiṣṇava dharma in a crude form like the Christian. So we can amalgamate them all if they are sane men. I suggested that there are many churches vacant. If they give us these churches we shall install Deity—Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva—and along with them we shall worship Lord Jesus Christ also. Similarly, we can do Muhammad. There is no harm. But they are against this Deity worship, eh? Mohammedans?
Yoga student: Yes, they are. That sort of expression. And yet, amongst the Sufi poets...
Prabhupāda: Deity is also expression, form is also expression, but they do not understand it.
Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy. sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumartho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says that is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him. That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaisnalam in crude form, like the Christians (indistinct) if they are sane man. I suggested that there are many churches vacant, if they give us these churches, we shall install Deity, Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva, and along with them we can worship Jesus Christ. Similarly, we can do Mohammed. But they are against this Deity worship. Yes?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Mohammedans?
Prabhupāda: There is an operator. A child cannot think. Motor car is running. Child will think the motor car is running automatically. But a sane man will understand that there is a driver. So persons who deny the existence of God are like that. They see the machine. Nature is the machine. But behind the machine there is an operator. These rascals cannot understand. Nābhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ paramam, tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair. Machine is working, nature is working, that much they can see. And behind the machine there is operator. That they cannot see. What is your answer? What the atheist will say? Has the atheist any experience that any machine works without operator? Has he got any experience?
Paramahaṁsa: No.
Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Spiritual realization means knowledge. Not to become intoxicated. The spiritual... Just like this is spiritual knowledge. So what the intoxicated person will understand? Even a sane man cannot understand. Then how he will understand in intoxication? It is foolishness. They are suffering material pangs. By taking drugs the suffering is forgotten, and he is thinking that is the solution. Spiritual means negation of material distress. So he is always suffering from material distress. By taking drug, temporarily he forgets it. Therefore he misunderstands "This is spiritual." That's not spiritual. Then committing suicide is also spiritual? One man is suffering, and the suffering is so great he cannot tolerate, therefore he sometimes commits suicide. Is that committing suicide spiritual? Spiritual means negation of material distresses, that's a fact. But that is a different thing. When you come to the spiritual platform, not by artificially forgetting your material suffering. That is not spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Law requires or not requires, they are going to school with some future hope. So every sane man should think of the future. But because they are kept in darkness, they are all insane. They do not know what is the future of life. That is the defect. Everyone is thinking for future, but he does not know what is future after death. That is their ignorance. And Bhagavad-gītā begins that as the child has future, the boy has future, the young man has future, similarly the old man has also future. So that they do not know. That is their ignorance.
Amogha: A lot of them will accept, "Yes, there is future after death," but...
Prabhupāda: That he does not know, what is that future.
Guest 1: I suppose Wally and I are thinking on the same wavelength because we can imagine the problems that we'd have.
Prabhupāda: Now you have got the United Nations. Now, if they are sane men, they should pass resolution, "The whole world belongs to God, and we are all God's sons. So let us make now United States of the World." That can be easily done. If they can make United States of America, why not United States of the whole world?
Guest 2: I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, all problems. Now, suppose in India there is scarcity of foodstuff. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift—we are all sons—very nicely. Then the, all the problems solved. Now the difficulty is that we have made, "No, this is my property. We shall use it, nation." In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such conception. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national.
Prabhupāda: No, that also we cannot agree. If there are lower species, there must be higher species. As we see here is dog also, man also, higher species, lower species, why not there? They can talk all nonsense, but a nonsense will believe. No sane man will believe. (break) ...going to meet in the space?
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the idea?
Ambarīṣa: It's a diplomatic move. They feel it will make friendly relationships between the two countries.
Indian man: They cannot meet on the earth and they are going to meet on the... (laughter) (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: Because one of the main arguments against the movement is that we are crazy. So Dr. Gerson, it is his specialty in determining who is sane and who is crazy, and according to his observation, the devotees here are more sane than...
Prabhupāda: So kindly write one book, at least small book, supporting this movement. That will be great service. Actually this should be supported by all sane men, it is so nice. And practically, you see, Dr. Judah has admitted that "You have converted drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and servant of humanity." That he has written, that who likes us.
Dr. Gerson: I think the data that I am collecting will support that and show it in terms that other people in psychology and medicine will be able to read.
Prabhupāda: If you read Dr. Judah's book...
Dr. Gerson: I have it, yes.
Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position. Therefore those who are under treatment, they must be strict observation—he may not do something wrong so that treatment may be hampered.
Harikeśa: The Rādhā-Dāmodara party has very good prasādam program. This halavā they make every morning—everyone is fully satisfied.
Prabhupāda: They are sane men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every morning we have...
Prabhupāda: So why do they not follow your principle?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, it's very... And the devotees love it. Every day, Prabhupāda, we...
Prabhupāda: No, every temple give them example, invite them in your prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's what I'm going to do today.
Harikeśa: I noticed the devotees would wait for prasādam with great...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is nice. It requires good leader, that's all. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa we must prepare very first-class foodstuff, and where is the complaint if it is first class?
Prabhupāda: All right, let him satisfy there. But we have no such experience. We cannot accept his theory. He may be a single man to believe that. But no sane man will believe that. But we have got this answer. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Prakṛtiḥ, nature, is working under My direction." In the Brahma-saṁhitā: sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvana vibharti... (Bs. 5.44). bhuvanāni durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Icchānurūpam. The nature is working under the direction of God, Govinda.
Bahulāśva: Now the scientists are studying the atom, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they agree...
Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science. What is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daiv hy eṣ guṇamay mama māy duratyayā. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?"
Prabhupāda: So you can explain what I was talking.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the idea is that now you have secular state because the religion, as it is being taught today, is seen simply as some kind of dogma that can't be proven, some kind of blind faith. But in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is giving scientific evidence, reason, how the existence of the soul can be proven. Religion means there must be soul. But people don't understand how soul is existing. They think it is simply beyond their conception or comprehension. Kṛṣṇa has made it so reasonable to understand the existence of the soul that any sane man would accept. For example, Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Any person can accept that they had a youthful body, childhood body, and then old man's body. The change of body is always there. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.
Prabhupāda: I am on all planets. When I come to other country I see the same tree, the same road and the same sand. So what is the difference? I don't find any difference between India and this South Africa because the same trees are there, same grass is there, the same road is there, the same... So similarly, in every planet, without going we can understand, if we are sane men. We come here not to see how is South Africa. We have come here to preach Kṛṣṇa conscious.... That is our business. We don't come as a tourist to see how South Africa is. What South Africa? The same building, same road, same—everything same. What to see here? Especially, they are also eating, sleeping and struggling. That's all.
Indian man: That's a stink bug there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Is there any difference between Los Angeles, America or San Francisco and this city? Is there any difference?
Prabhupāda: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted the Supreme by all the ācāryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.
Harikeśa: Well, the Bible is just some story. I mean, the Bible is just some story. Why should we believe that all of a sudden there was…
Prabhupāda: No, Bible is not authorized because it was compiled after Jesus Christ finished.
Harikeśa: But they say the child in the womb is not living. They say it's not life yet. Only after it takes birth.
Prabhupāda: That is said by you. You, the tenth-class rascal, you say like that. No sane man says like that. Because you are a tenth-class rascal—you have no knowledge—you say like that. They are... The so-called scientists, they are tenth-class rascals.
Harikeśa: Until the child is moving there is no life.
Prabhupāda: Moving, it is not moving?
Harikeśa: No. It doesn't move until after seven months.
Prabhupāda: Then why the dead child cannot move, rascal?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's developing, it's growing. That's moving also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the same thing, because he does not see the form; he sees the ingredients. Just like there are so many earthen pots, dolls. So any sane man knows that these are all made of earth. That's all. That vision is wanted, but these rascals, they are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am fat," "I am this," "I am that." Therefore they are imperfect.
Dr. Patel: Oh, we are prepared to think we are Americans, but they don't take us, unfortunately. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: You see? I may little digressing from this point. Before the India became freed we had an extremely high opinion about American race, American people.
Prabhupāda: Still I have got.
Yaśomatīnandana: No one has any chance against your philosophy. No one has any chance. Many times people start arguing. Within five or ten minutes they are completely calmed down. And after fifteen minutes, "Because we started arguing, we have learned so much from you."
Prabhupāda: That is sane man.
Indian man (8): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)
Dr. Patel: Why I come so early and all that. Shall I say, sir?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is beaten with shoes, that is not his līlā. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: What it is?
Prabhupāda: It is force, that "You must be beaten with shoes." That is not līlā. Nobody says, "Let me play this līlā and you beat me with shoes." (laughter) No sane man will do that. When a man is punished, that is by force, superior force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is force, prakṛti, nature's. You cannot say that "I don't care for the prakṛti." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. It is God's prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: But they do not accept this, such a foolish person.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Any sane man, if he found out what the consequences will be, he would listen to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: They do not believe next life, that, to dismiss all these ideas. If there is no next life... Bhasmi bhūtasya... Atheists, they do not believe next life. All big, big men in Europe, they say, "No, there is no life." Here also.
Haṁsadūta: They will say, "We have no evidence, no evidence of..."
Prabhupāda: Evidence is there. Still, you are so rascal. Evidence is you were a child. That is the evidence. Where is that body? A very simple evidence, but these rascals are so dull, they cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: And where is enjoyment? The thief also thinks like that: "Let me enjoy by stealing." Then, when he goes to the prison, then his enjoyment finished. If somebody gives you so many rasagullā, that "You take this rasagullā, and after finishing, I shall beat you with shoes," then will you take? (laughter) This is enjoyment. No sane man will like to enjoy like that. "Take this rasagullā, and after this, I will beat you with shoes, as many rasagullā you have taken." Will you take it?
Harikeśa: Yes, but I eat rasagullās every day and nobody beats me with shoes.
Prabhupāda: Why the other day you told me, "I am now not... I cannot see. My brain is..."? Is it not beating with shoes? (laughter) Eh? Don't you agree?
Indian man (5): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Huh? Everyone, but they are so rascal.
Prabhupāda: That is another rascal point. Therefore I say, "Kick them on their face tomorrow." He's offering postdated check. (laughter) Eh? Even if you are coming of a very millionaire's family, but if you give me a check postdated, shall I accept it? A sane man? No. Bring cash; then talk. (laughter) So these rascals, they have no cash. They have got only paper, postdated check. And who will accept it unless one is another fool, rascal, another rascal.
Tejās: They are bluffing.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.
Harikeśa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.
Prabhupāda: Healthy, he's quite healthy. (Hindi conversation with other man) We repeat simply Kṛṣṇa's statement. That is our... Our mission is "Kṛṣṇa's standard"—yare dekha tare kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Don't manufacture, rascaldom. Simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. And it is simple. And as soon as you try to manufacture, it becomes difficult. How Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made things so easy.
- amara ajnaya guru haya tare ei deśa
- yare dekha, tare kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
That's all. How simple it is. You, every one of us, we take this missionary activities of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we see immediately the face of the country will change. Every gentleman, every sane man, may speak to his family, to his community, to his nation, to his friend, what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then see the result. But they're all manufacturing, conncocting. Becoming big scholars. The more you deviate from Kṛṣṇa's instructions, you become a scholar.
Prabhupāda: No, if this proposition is there, that Lord Śiva gives permission for killing his devotee, then who will become his devotee? Huh? Is it not?
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No sane man will become his devotee. All the manufactured foolish statements, just see. Any commonsense man will immediately say, "Then Śiva is a rascal; he cannot give protection to his devotee." What do you think? Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, does one have to give protection to their devotee if they break the law? Just like if you have a child, and he murders someone, isn't he supposed to be punished? So if someone goes against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even if you are a devotee, shouldn't Śiva concur?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, gradually. As soon as you kill, then you must be killed. This law is there: life for life. So where is your independence? Independence means you are inviting more sufferings, that's all. You go on, declare your independence. We are the only sane man. We have accepted that "We have no independence." Here Kṛṣṇa is asking. "Let me surrender unto..." That's all. So we have to convince the people, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. You are foolishly rascal. You are trying to be independent. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. You do that." That will make him happy. In many varieties of ways we have to convince them and prove that "You are foolishly thinking that there is independent, so-called scientific advancement, and only promising, 'Yes, in future we shall be like this, be like this.' " What is future? Just take account of your present position. Where is the history that you have...? If in the past something like that happened, then you can expect future. But in the past, the whole world history, there was no independence.
Prabhupāda: Still, if you say, "You are mūḍha," they become angry. Such mūḍhas, rascals, they are in the government service. And if you say that "You are mūḍhas," he becomes angry. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye: "If a mūḍha is advised nice instruction, he becomes angry." He does not take it. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam: "If you give milk and banana to a snake, you simply increase his poison." One day he will come-(growls). You see? "I have given you milk and you..." "Yes, that is my nature. Yes. You give me milk, and I am prepared to kill you." This is mūḍha. We have to kill this civilization of mūḍhas. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Kṛṣṇa. And those who are mūḍhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mūḍhas and give Kṛṣṇa to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Kṛṣṇa's. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mūḍhas. (break) ...wal, did you come here before?
Harikeśa: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: No, no. White men. Yes. And in Melbourne the priests also appreciated. So any sane man will appreciate our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These are very strong words, that "You have created a civilization of pig, and for making perfect that civilization you are working like ass." So what is the advancement? A ass is trying to become a pig. What is that civilization? The ideal is to become a pig, and for that, fulfillment of that idea, they are working like ass. Is it not? Just see. Think over.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we speak like that in the classrooms, whew!
Bhavānanda: They like it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very strong.
Prabhupāda: Natural sequence.... Just like you are infected, some contaminous disease. You'll suffer. There is a story that one fool was sitting on a branch of a tree and he was cutting off. And somebody said, "You'll fall down." "Ha, fall down." But when he fell down he said, "Oh, you are a great astrologer." So who goes to the astrologer? Only fools and rascal. No sane man goes. They know that what is.... Yad bhavyantam tad bhavata.(?) What is to happen, that will happen. Why shall I go to astrologer?
Gurukṛpā: I can prepare myself to make change.
Prabhupāda: Yes. My only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. I don't mind what will happen next.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That desire to serve Kṛṣṇa, though, that Kṛṣṇa....
Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion. As soon as you know that "Here is a godless atheist," he is rascal. Bas, finished. Exactly like.... Suppose you are in India, and if you think, "No, there is no government. It is going on automatically," then you are rascal, immediately. Is it very sane man, sane man's statement, statement, that "No, no, there is no God. It is going on"? So atheist means rascal. Such a nice arrangement is going on, exactly at 6:15 the sun is there, and "There is no government. There is no God." Just see how rascaldom. And then what it is? "By chance." And he is scientist. We have to consider them educated scientists? Are we going to be fooled like that? "There is no government." "There is no father." How the child came? "There is no father." Just see.
Prabhupāda: They may say. They are themselves fanatics. Who cares for them? If a madman says you are madman, I have to accept? No. He must be a sane man. Then there is some meaning. He is calling me madman, but he is a... If I am blind and if another man, he is blind, he says you are blind, so what is the use?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is the principle to first prove that they are insane and then afterwards that we're sane, or first to prove that we're sane and then...
Prabhupāda: Our proof is that we are following the sane man's instruction, or sane being, the Supreme Being. There cannot be any mistake. Therefore, we are sane.
Devotee: They say they are also following.
Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful.
Prabhupāda: 11.34, that is good rate. So I wish that... We should combine the work very vigorously when this (indistinct). They are just like women, equal in preaching (indistinct). You keep some women together, and they fight. The children together, they will fight. Dogs together, they will fight. Sane man, why they will fight? Where is the cause of fight? Then you are (indistinct) to become woman. Worse. This material world is such that even you keep some utensil together, when dealing, tung, tung, tung, tung, tung, what to speak of individuals souls. But our cause is the common, how to push on. That soberness must be there. I can give you points, instructions, you will have to put it into shape; otherwise how it will go on?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can understand that Your Divine Grace does not want factions.
Prabhupāda: That will better the movement.
Devotee (2): :The sane people, the sane persons, they will accept.
Prabhupāda: :That means there is no saintly person, all rogues. (break) ...objection. You have to accept some father; otherwise how you can exist?
Devotee (1): The objection is that man wants to be completely free.
Prabhupāda: He cannot be free.
Hari-śauri: Well, like Freud said, that a child may be under the protection of the father, but eventually the child has to grow up and go out and face the harsh, cruel world.
Prabhupāda: That is his folly. If he remains obedient to the father, then he'll be happy.
Hari-śauri: :If you're already in a good situation, why create a bad one?
Prabhupāda: Those who are sane men, they are appreciating that here is a movement actually for the benefit... It is not sentimental, cheating, bluffing. Economic development. Do economic development, why you forget your real business? Tat-prayāso na kartavyo yena āyur... What is that? Vyayaḥ param, simply wasting the valuable time of our life. If you want to suck blood, just become a mosquito. (laughs) Pray to God: "Give me the body of a mosquito." Quickly, you will get. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Bhūtejyaḥ yānti bhūtāni. You'll get it.
Devotee: Kīrtanānanda is here with the car. (microphone rattling-changes to outside)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simply expand this idea. Kṛṣī-go-rakṣya-vāṇījyam (BG 18.44). (end)
Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal. Not only blindly we are rejecting, but with reason. (end)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy. Now there was no need for the Lord to be angry. The devotees can always remember the form of Nṛsiṁhadeva when they are in danger, and therefore the appearance of Nṛsiṁhadeva was not at all inauspicious. The Lord's appearance is always worshipable and auspicious for all sane persons and devotees."
Prabhupāda: What is next verse?
Prabhupāda: I have therefore said, "Make a small egg, then talk of big, big things."
Darby: They can make one chemical which leaves the life.
Prabhupāda: Not only that: if you are a sane man, you analyze your body. Now find out where is life. Beginning analysis is the breathing. You take... Now a man is dead. Somebody says, "Now, because his breathing is stopped, therefore he is dead." So what is this breathing? It is simply a little air. So put some machine, and the air may come and go and give him life. Take anything, breathing, then you take blood, then you take skin, then you take muscle, then you take bone, then take your stool, urine, find out life. Is it possible? Then why do you say that life is combination of chemicals?
Prabhupāda: And they are going to the moon planet, Mars planet, and bring some dust.
Darby: They try to keep the people busy by showing them other planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Busy means they can show all these bluff busy programs to the rascals, not to the sane man.
Darby: Could you tell us a little about your spiritual master's life? I've never heard anything.
Prabhupāda: This is spiritual master, one who is representative of God. And one who speaks what God has said, then he's spiritual master.
Darby: But I have never heard anything of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta, and I wondered if you would tell me a little bit about him, if you would.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, kliśyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Kleśala eva śiṣyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?
Prabhupāda: ...potency of hari-nāma-kīrtana, everyone will join. We have to be sincerely working, then everything... Kṛṣṇa will. Natural, even child, drunkard, sane man, everyone was.
Vipina: Yes, they were all dancing.
Prabhupāda: The proof was there.
Vipina: You said last night that actually they all want to dance, but they're artificially checking. (break)
Prabhupāda: Birth, death. (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw Niagara Falls, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, once that very concept that they will be able to do all these things, if that is removed, then they come on the platform as...
Prabhupāda: Of sane man. They are talking like insane man.
Ravīndra-svarūpa(?): But that inspiration is that we can always do something bigger and better than we've done before.
Prabhupāda: But still you cannot do in the final. That is not possible. Because you are finite. You are not infinite. Your knowledge is limited. You can do something up to some extent.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: They agree, they all agree,
Prabhupāda: They are giving bluff: "Yes we shall produce life. Wait for millions of years, wait for millions." This is nonsense. Who will wait for millions of years and see your scientific discovery?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They keep it for the future. They postpone.
Prabhupāda: That is postdated check. "You take this million dollar check." "When shall I use it?" "After millions year you can cash it." This kind of propaganda no sane man will accept.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's like chemical evolution. Million years it will happen.
Prabhupāda: Billion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in a million years.
Prabhupāda: Then the answer is the chicken is better than you. He can give you life within seven days. Dr. Chicken is better... They are shameless. Not ordinary, because ordinary a human being will become shameful to speak something nonsense. But they are shameless. In that Bengali, duḥkhānvita(?) One man, one ear was cut off. So in order to hide his cut-off ear he was keeping this side to the river side and this side to the habitation side. So then again his two ears were cut out. Then there is no question of hiding. Both of them were cut out.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's word are not different. If you find it different, then you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. When I quote Kṛṣṇa's word, that means Kṛṣṇa.
Vipina: But everyone sees it as different.
Prabhupāda: Because he is a rascal. He has to become a sane man, then he will see. It requires tapasya. It is not so easy. That is called sahajiyā. Why you want such exalted things so easily? Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's words, they are the same. Vāco vācaḥ.(?) The same thing. Why you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa is not the same, then what is the use of wasting time? Hm? What is that? Abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś?
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa has already given to the chicken. (laughter) He's so unfortunate that Kṛṣṇa is not giving him the intelligence. He's so unfortunate. But the fortunate chicken has already got the intelligence. So at least the chicken is fortunate than these so-called scientists. That is our conclusion. He's so unfortunate that he doesn't get the fortune of the chicken. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). He's a mūḍha, rascal. That's all. He's claiming something which is impossible. That is mūḍha. If somebody, if a child, sometimes childish nature, "Mother, give me that moon." It is possible mother can give the moon to the child? So mother cheats him. She gives him a mirror, "You see, here is a mirror, moon here." That's all. But is that moon? So a child may be satisfied with this class of moon, but one who is sane man, his father will not be satisfied. It is impossible. We give this challenge to any scientist, that "You are unnecessarily, uselessly working to produce life from chemicals." That is our challenge. "You cannot do it." (Hindi) So we challenge the so-called scientists that "You rascal, you cannot do it." It is not possible. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Chance is their instrument of explanation.
Prabhupāda: Just see how they are befooling persons. The law is cause and effect. Nothing is chance. There is cause, and there is effect. It is saying the same thing, that "This girl has produced a child by chance." It is not possible. Any sane man knows that she had connection with man, either legally or illegally. It is not chance. So there can... Nothing can happen as chance. That is imperfect knowledge. Wash out.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Will we have readings or would you like to talk with them?
Prabhupāda: Let them come, we shall see. My point is why they do not see any other spot? Only these spots are visible, where there are rocks? They say Howrah station is closed. No sane man will believe that, that Howrah station is closed.
Jñānagamya: They do not want to upset the illusion that they are God, that they are the only ones in the universe. So if they find out there is life on another planet, they will not like it. If there is higher life somewhere else, they will not like that. They are always in competition.
Prabhupāda: And all the higher lifes are in Europe and America. Especially in America, eh? That is their mania. They do not like that there may be higher lifes, you said. They like it that there may not be any higher life. That is their preconception.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. That is devotee. Because God wants it that these rascals may be turned into sane man. That is God's plan. Otherwise why does He comes? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Huh? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8)—two class, sādhu and duṣkṛtinaḥ. So to punish these duṣkṛtinaḥ there is reformation. That is not God's enemy, reformation. As the father gives slap to rogue child, that is also kindness. So these two processes are going on, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Then what is that dharma? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That is dharma. So to deal with the asuras is not so easy job, but we have to do that. You should not be discouraged. So asuras may be reformed or not be reformed, but because you are trying this job on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, He will recognize you. Your service will be recognized. Not that you attempted, therefore you must be successful. You may be unsuccessful. It does not matter. But you have tried your best, and that will be recognized. (pause)
Prabhupāda: This article no sane man will take notice of it. No sane man will like. It is not very important article.
Hari-śauri: Trouble is, we're in a land of insane people.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the largest circulating newspaper in India.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So bring him into court. But what will be your charges?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, slander, it was trying to slander our character, our whole movement.
Gargamuni: Defamation of our religious cult. Because we're recognized by scholars as being bona fide. It says here, "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." How is that ungodly?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the charge. They are trying to minimize our...
Prabhupāda: Not indifference. They are... You see, there is a remark of a politician. There is no indifference. They are appreciating that it is spreading like epidemic. There is no question of indifference. But the leaders, they appreciate. Some of the fathers of my disciples, they come to offer their thanks, "Swamiji, it is a great fortune for us that you have come to our country." They say like that. They appreciate that their sons were going to be hippies. Now they are devotees, God conscious. So any sane man will never object to this. The priests also, they say that "These boys are our boys..." In Boston, one priest said. "And they never cared to come to the church or inquire about God. And now these boys are mad after God." Not only that, practically, in many places we have purchased churches and converted into temples. So we see these churches were sold because nobody was coming. But since this movement is there, the same church is there and the same persons are there. You will find always it is crowded. This is practical. I have not imported men from India to fill up the temples. Their men and their church, but the philosophy is different. It is filled up.
Hari-śauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.
Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask... The man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.
Hari-śauri: Then how to fight them?
Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition we have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let them give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying, not directly. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Unless one... But if there is a class of men, ideal, who understands God, then people will follow. We require one moon. Then the darkness will be dissipated. But if in the millions of stars, what is the use? So they are creating millions of rascals, not one sane man, the modern civilization, the so-called philosophers, so-called scientists. Don't mind. This is the fact.
Dr. Kneupper: Do you basically reject the modern civilization?
Prabhupāda: No, no. I say they are being foolishly trained.
Dr. Kneupper: I see.
Prabhupāda: The whole education system is bad.
Dr. Kneupper: You see no hope that there will be change.
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all let us settle, that Bhagavad-gītā begins
- dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre
- samavetā yuyutsavaḥ
- māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva
- kim akurvata sañjaya
- (BG 1.1)
So Mahābhārata is the history and there was Battle of Kurukṣetra. And that Kurukṣetra is mentioned there in the Bhagavad-gītā, and it is dharma-kṣetra since Vedic age. So the word used, dharma-kṣetre and kuru-kṣetre, it is completely understood. Why should you interpret unless you have got a motive. And why a sane man accepts that interpretation? If you have got a different philosophy you can write your own book. Why should you cheat others, taking Bhagavad-gītā and interpreting in your own way? This has spoiled the whole thing. And Kṛṣṇa says that as soon as you deviate from the disciplic succession system then it will be lost. So what is the use of reading something which is already lost? If I want to supply you something food, it must be fresh and palatable. Then you'll enjoy. But if it is rotten, decomposed, and if we supply you that foodstuff, what you will enjoy and what you will get benefit out of it?
Prabhupāda: Who has seen actually Kṛṣṇa, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Kṛṣṇa, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You do not know where you are going. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.
Prabhupāda: Raj Gopalacharya was sensible man amongst the whole lot.
Dr. Patel: He was a Vaiṣṇava cult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I know. Cakravarty. So (indistinct), I say that amongst the whole lot he was a sane man. Raj Gopalacharya. Because by culture he's a Vaiṣṇava. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...agreement with Jawaharlal Nehru.
Dr. Patel: He never was in agreement.
Prabhupāda: Not a single item. He therefore resigned. He wanted to form his own party.
Hari-śauri: Who's that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Raj Gopalacharya.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Who cares for Guruji? (laughs) Who cares for Guruji? They think that "Guruji is cheating you—I am cheating your Guruji. What is the wrong?" They think Guruji means cheater. Nowadays, Guruji means cheater. "So you are cheated by your Guruji, so let me cheat your Guruji." That's all. Sate satāṁ samācaret. If one is sat, cunning, you should be also cunning, more cunning. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, policy. Sate satāṁ samācaret. Very miserable condition in this age. Therefore the sane man should utilize the little opportunity of human life in the cent percent Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the proper utilization of life. Try to serve Kṛṣṇa cent percent. Bas. That is proper utilization. The so-called philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this ism, that.... Bogus.... Not bogus-useless. It will not help. They are pious activities. So, Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, pious or impious, both of them are impediments to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we are not interested with pious activities or impious even. We are interested how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our philosophy is very difficult to understand. Suppose you are giving some medical relief, and if I say that "Why you should waste your time by giving medical relief? Why not give him relief from birth and death?" they'll laugh. Is it not? They'll laugh, that "What nonsense he's speaking? This man is suffering. He immediately requires."
Hari-śauri: Yes. That's becoming more organized now. They have a Parents for Krishna group now.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will appreciate. Why this father, mother, came to congratulate me? "Swamiji, you have done so..." It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that everyone be happy. They'll take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then?
Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity?
Prabhupāda: Not a question of Buddhist. That is Christian, Hindus, everyone. Rascals. Lord Buddha, he was nonviolent, and this Jawaharlal Nehru was observing Buddha-jayantī and at the same time sanctioning cow-killing. What is that? Cow-killing. "What is wrong in eating meat?" He has said that. (break) ...advertising our movement. Everyone's asking, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa?" That is the whole American people. Even if one did not know, he is "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" And our books are selling, "What is this Kṛṣṇa book?" So indirectly they're advertising. (break) Their greatest shock that "Our people being taught 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication.' Then where is our civilization?" This is their greatest shock. Any sane man can understand that this Hindu culture is being forcibly introduced.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct)
Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's actually the fact. The want to take their freedom, but they are accusing us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you are sane man, let us sit down. First of all ascertain what is religion. Then we shall see whether your religion is genuine or my religion is genuine. First of all ascertain. Let there be an assembly, that "What is religion?" "We say that the law given by God is religion. Now you refute this." Nobody can manufacture religion. "God is one, and whatever He has given, law, that is religion. Now you refute it?" Give them this challenge.
Rāmeśvara: "Well we may accept that the Kṛṣṇa movement is a religion, but..."
Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?
Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.
Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.
Gurukṛpā: I heard one scientist on the airplane. There were three scientists sitting behind me, and they were speaking that they hope they are living in the year 2000. One man said, "I become so excited when I think how advanced we will be in the year 2000 that I just hope I do not die before then 'cause I want to see how everything will be then."
Prabhupāda: No, then father, mother, should not be respected, because they indulged in sexual life and brought me into existence and I am suffering. Then there should be no respect of father and mother. And then this sex life should be stopped, and there is no need of big, big scientist, philosopher. Because this indulgence will bring so many big men, so it should be stopped. But Kṛṣṇa is the father. Why He should not have sex? Any father has got sex. So if you criticize Kṛṣṇa, then you must criticize your father first. But that is not the law of nature nor the law of the society. Law is different. Who will criticize his father? Any sane man? Will any sane man do that? So you are insane. So who is caring for your remark? You are insane.
Hari-śauri: They're just envious of Kṛṣṇa, anyway. They're envious because they want to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: That is the cause, that they're criticizing. They're envious.
Prabhupāda: They are luscious(?) that... (break) Just like a tuberculosis patient. To him doctor says that "You don't have sex life. That will bring your death." Does it mean sex life is bad? The tuberculosis person, for him it is bad, not for the sane man, not for the healthy man. So when sex life is advised to..., forbidden, that is for the diseased condition. But who is never diseased—he is perfect—for him there is no forbidding of sex life. So you do not understand that in this material condition you are suffering only. You have no brain. Therefore morality, immorality, good, bad, there are so many things. But when one is perfect, healthy, for him all the activities of life is perfect. Just like a physician advised me, "You don't take salt." Does it mean salt is bad? I am in a particular condition of this kidney trouble or liver trouble. For me salt is bad. But does it mean salt bad?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.
Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.
Gurukṛpā: Yes.
Gargamuni: Yes, but how can a psychologist judge a religion? That's not his field. They have to bring in scholars whose field is religion.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Then those who are supporting us, our books, they are also.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have many witnesses.
Prabhupāda: They are also madmen.
Prabhupāda: They know. They appreciate. The Home Member has appreciated. He personally told Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, "Yes, we want that this movement should spread all over the world." Not in writing, but verbally he has stated, although he's Christian. Every sane man will appreciate. Indira Gandhi also. You said that she has advised.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Unless she appreciates, why she has done? And the ambassador.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He has given his certification. At first he was unwilling, but he became... When he got permission from India, then...
Prabhupāda: Indian government should be proud that Indian culture is being accepted in America.
Hari-śauri: Cheater.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheater, one must be due to ignorance. Generally one who is fool, he commits criminality. No sane man does it. Sane means he knows what is what. He does not commit mistake. But to commit mistake means he's insane, ignorant. That is not innocence-ignorance, foolish.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a difference between ignorance and innocence.
Prabhupāda: Innocence, he..., like a child. But ignorant means he has no knowledge; he is animal. So what about the advertisement? He has not done?
Hari-śauri: The book advertisement? Did you see that? Prabhupāda wrote out an advertisement, "Read Hare Kṛṣṇa books, worldwide Hare Kṛṣṇa books, and be happy." Then he listed all the books and where to buy them from.
Prabhupāda: And I gave him 22,000 rupees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so madman, that should be treated. That is humanity. A madman, he has become mad, and "Get him out." No. Human society's duty is to treat him, to become a sane man.
Guest (1): And that type of man requires a special treatment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, a special treatment...
Guest (1): So the books which you have written for other people.
Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.
Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense... Just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human... Everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible. So so many living entities are coming from the material nature, and the offsprings are there. Then who is the father? And the father is there. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am." So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible. As soon as you deny the existence of God, means you are insane. You require treatment. There is no doubt. This is common sense. So many lives are coming from the earth. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Either earth, water, air, there is life. They are coming. And the children are there, mother is there. Should we not inquire who is the father? If you say without father they have come, that is foolishness, madness. Immediately, he's mad. So you cannot deny the existence. If you deny, then you are mad. That is the sign of insanity. They require treatment. That is explained in one Bengali poetry.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. (laughs) It is little... Common sense, a little intelligence, and everything can be solved. They are obstinate.
Prabhupāda: That means rascal. Obstinate means rascal. Obstinate is not a sane person.
Girirāja: Actually they're animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these animals, they are passing on as big scientists, philosophers, theologician, and so on, so on. We have to stop them. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the qualification of a person who does not accept God: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna-although highly educated, no knowledge-āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, simply atheist. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, we have to punish them, chastise these rascals. They are demons.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Patita-pāvana: Yes. They have written beautiful letters which I am going to xerox and give to my friends for preaching.
Prabhupāda: No, every sane man will appreciate our effort. Especially from general... Even the Māyāvādīs, they are also praising.
Patita-pāvana: The Māyāvādīs, yes.
Prabhupāda: Even the Māyāvādīs, they are also praising these activities. Yesterday two Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, came, Śaṅkara-sampradāya.
Patita-pāvana: This Arkasomaya...
Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals. Animal. The animal even. The so-called scientists, they are no better than the animals. That's all. They cannot understand the very simple thing. Animals cannot know. Otherwise any sane man can understand. (break) As soon as he changes the cloth, it is... No, I can change this cloth. That does not mean... I am the consciousness. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni... They never try to understand this. What is their advance? You are supporting these rascals. That means you do not understand about the soul. Do they not?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and Ātreya Ṛṣi wouldn't have met.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will receive our...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's helping us in Karachi to open a temple now. And in Lebanon also...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is accepting. It is for all, even Communist countries. Everyone is accepting our literature, our attempt. That's a fact. And you do not heard about the report in the South Africa. South Africa, the Europeans hate the Indians like anything. Now they're receiving our literature. That means they will now appreciate Indian culture. They'll understand that India has got some substance.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very important point to bring up even with the government.
Prabhupāda: Ha.
Bhavānanda: Only factor at this point is not to take any unnecessary risk.
Prabhupāda: No. As I think free, so I remain. Mm. Then when I am sane man, I shall come back again either Māyāpura or Vṛndāvana or Bombay, any other.
Jayapatāka: You would travel by a minibus.
Prabhupāda: Mm?
Jayapatāka: You would travel by a bus.
Prabhupāda: That you think of.
Bhavānanda: We will all sit down and discuss the different arrangements that have to be made, plans that have to be made. It's a very nice idea. Real sannyāsa life.
| Page Title: | Sane man (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 16 of Jul, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=116, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 116 |