Prabhupāda: So I was standing before the deity, and I was seeing, "Oh, He is Kṛṣṇa. Oh, people say He is dead. How he is dead?" Like that I was thinking. And then my, I asked my father, "Oh, I shall worship Kṛṣṇa, give me." So my father gave me Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, so I, whatever I was eating, I was offering them. So the statement of the śāstra and my practical experience corroborates. So we we have to take instance like that, you see? Sādhu śāstra guru vākya. We have to test everything from three positions: the spiritual master, scripture, and holy man. Scripture means, just like Bible. What is Bible? Scripture. Why the scripture? It is fully contains the instruction of sādhu, holy man, or spiritual master, Lord Jesus Christ, therefore is scripture. The scripture means the statement of liberated holy man. That is sādhu. Therefore, scripture should be tested through the holy man and spiritual master. Spiritual master should be tested through scripture and holy man, and holy man should be tested through spiritual master and scripture.
Sadhu, Sastra and Guru (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"guru and sadhu"
|"guru and sastra"
|"sadhu and guru"
|"sadhu sastra guru"
|"sadhu, guru and sastra"
|"sadhu, sastra and guru"
|"sadhu, sastra, guru"
|"sadhu-sastra-guru"
|"sadhus, the sastra and the guru"
|"sastra and guru"
|"sastra and guru"
|"sastra, and guru"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Allen Ginsberg: What is the difference between holy man and spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: No difference, but one has to test whether he is holy man. Then you have to, he has to corroborate with the statement of the scripture. Spiritual master is to be tested whether he is holy man, and whether there is corroboration in the statement of the scriptures. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete koriya aikya. Just like the law court, the experienced lawyer's speaking and giving evidence. Sādhu-śāstra, and the judge is giving judgement, "Here is a statement, here is this lawbook." He has (indistinct). He also testing, the judge is also testing how the lawyer is speaking, and how it is corroborates to the lawbook. So similarly everything has to be tested in that way. The scripture should be consulted, and we should have to see whether it is corroborated. So we should not accept any man as spiritual master or holy man if he does not corroborate with the statement of the scripture. So we should not accept any man as spiritual master or holy man if he does not corroborate with the statement of the scripture. He's at once rejected.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front. The other side, Duryodhana is in the front. So the fighter in that, "Oh, my master is there." But there is no kṣatriya. The administration is under the śūdra side. How they can manage? So they must be trained. As in business, we give training. Similarly, those who are going to take up the responsibility of administration, they should be trained. And who will train them? The brāhmaṇas, the śāstra, sādhu-śāstra-guru. And those who are common men, they will simply work under their direction. This division is already there, simply the training is not there. Therefore, there is chaos.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So sādhu śāstra guru vākya. So we have to accept the authority of śāstra, guru, and sādhu. So those who are sādhu, they accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The guru in the..., they accept. And śāstra, there is acceptance. So, therefore, it is confirmed. Not only He, any avatāra, he must be confirmed by these three sources: sādhu, śāstra, guru. I accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu because my Guru Mahārāja accepted. He accepted Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Kṛṣṇa; his Guru Mahārāja accepted. And the śāstra is there. When guru says that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, he quotes śāstra. The śāstra, guru, and those who are actually devotees, sādhu, they also accept. This is the evidence.
Devotee (1) (woman): Prabhupāda, is Lord Caitanya always carrying on saṅkīrtana in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: How do we know he's a good doctor or not? By his credential or...?
Prabhupāda: No. That also... Therefore it is called sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Three things there are for knowledge. Sādhu, saintly person; śāstra, scripture; and guru. So one statement we have to corroborate with other statement. If you accept somebody as guru, then you have to corroborate it whether śāstra says that he is guru or any saintly person says that he is guru. This is the way. Similarly, when you take a scripture, you have to know it from the spiritual master, whether that is actually scripture, whether it is accepted by the saintly person. Sādhu. Similarly sādhu also, whether guru says, "Yes, he is sādhu." Whether śāstra says, "Yes, he is sādhu." There are three things, sādhu-śāstra-guru. So to accept one, you have to take the opinion of the other two. Then you'll get the right way. Just like who is a guru? That is stated in the śāstras. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Śāstra says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "One must approach a guru." Then the same question comes, "Who is guru?" That is also stated, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. "He's well-versed in Vedas, knowledge of Vedas, and fully Kṛṣṇa conscious." He is guru. Just like how do you know that here is a medical practitioner? Before going for treatment, you find out. How do you find out?
Śyāmasundara: Some friend, perhaps.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have to take information. Similarly, guru, according to śāstra, who is guru, he must be confirmed by sādhu, saintly person, by śāstra. Then he's guru. Sadhu-śāstra, guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya.
Prabhupāda: Sādhu means titikṣavaḥ: he's very tolerant because a sādhu has to face so many opposing elements and sometimes very offensive, but he has to tolerate. Titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ, very merciful. The same man who is torturing him, torturing him, he is trying to convince him about Kṛṣṇa. That means very merciful. He's not rejecting. Although he's torturing him, but he's trying to convince him, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore kāruṇikāḥ. And he is not friend of any particular society or man. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. He is well-wisher of all living entities. It doesn't matter whether he's Indian, American, or black and white. No, no conception. Or even human being or animal. He is kind to everyone, friend, well-wisher of everyone. Ajāta-śatravaḥ. He does not create any enemies. Such... These are the qualifications of sādhu. Śāstra means the transcendental literature, not ordinary writings. That is śāstra. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is śāstra, Veda is śāstra, or Bible, śāstra. Scripture means given by God or His authorized representative. That is śāstra. So sādhu-śāstra-guru. And guru means who is completely devotee of Kṛṣṇa without any material motives. This is sādhu-śāstra-guru. Anyābhilāṣitāśūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167).
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: In śāstra all the signs, symptoms, and characteristics of a siddha are mentioned. And those characteristics must be there with the siddha.
Prabhupāda: Yeah, then we shall accept. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete karīyā aikya. Śāstra will say, and guru will say, "Yes, it is rightly said." Saintly person also will accept. Just like Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna. Paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He immediately mentioned that "Such sage, authorities, accept. The śāstra says." Not that because Kṛṣṇa was His friend, he accepted blindly. No. That is corroboration. Whether it is mentioned in the śāstras, whether other saintly persons... Just like there are so many avatāras, but we have got our ācārya-sampradāya, Rāmānuja, Yamunācārya. Whether they are accepting? Not a third class man accepted, and it is accepted. The ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. This is the way of accepting.
Prabhupāda: A fourteen years old cannot be induced to marry a twenty-six years girl. That is unnatural. And by medical examination, it is found that he's at least thirty-two years. It is declared in the medical, and still, the rascals following him. That he's cheating by talking false things. So in one sense, the Western boys and young generation, they are actually hankering after some spiritual life. So any Indian, so-called sādhu and guru comes, they go there. But they are cheated unfortunately. So you make your society so strong that you be not cheated, and others may not cheat. Then it will be first-class. And if you make another society of cheaters and cheated, there is no profit. Therefore you have to follow the rules and regulations very strictly and become serious. Then you'll be ideal. People are in need of some spiritual energy. Therefore, as soon as some swamis or guru comes, they flock together to get some food. But these rascals are cheating. So you don't do that.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is a warning to the future fools and rascals that even God does not like to be addressed as God. But we address Him as God on the strength of śāstra. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā kṛṣṇaṁ saṅgo-paṅgastra... (SB 11.5.32), yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ. Here is the incarnation of God. That is... Śāstra says. So out of His humbleness, He may say like that, but we should know by following the ācāryas, by śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya. Guru accepts Him God; śāstra accepts Him God; sādhu accepts Him God.
Acyutānanda: The people say that just like Rāmakrishna, the disciples presented Him as God, but He never said He was God.
Prabhupāda: But then where is the śāstra? Three things: the devotee or saintly person, śāstra and guru. He has no guru. He has no support from the śāstra. (laughs) So he's a fool, rascal number one, and he is God. He was a illiterate priest. He had no knowledge of śāstra. Besides that, in the śāstra it is said that "Those who are worshiping other demigods, their intelligence is lost." So he was worshiping Kālī. So he had no intelligence or spiritual realization, and he became God? So these things can be accepted by other fools and rascals. But those who follow śāstra, they will reject immediately.
Acyutānanda: What does theology mean.
Prabhupāda: Just explain.
Prajāpati: This is the study of faithful men understanding themselves through the medium of the church.
Prabhupāda: Now you discuss whether this point is very nice.
Acyutānanda: So what is the authority?
Prajāpati: The authority is the Christian tradition.
Acyutānanda: The Bible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When he says church, that means authority, Bible.
Acyutānanda: The Bible.
Prajāpati: No, part. The Bible is part.
Acyutānanda: Only part, one part.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Acyutānanda: He says the Bible is not... The Bible is not the complete authority?
Prajāpati: No, it's the tradition of the church through the great founding fathers, the great theologians up until the present day.
Viṣṇujana: Sādhu, śāstra, guru.
Prabhupāda: No... Vāk...
Prajāpati: Yes, unfortunately no guru.
Prabhupāda: Church... Church is following Bible.
Prajāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So ultimately Bible becomes authority.
Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā that one who knows Him knows everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if he knows that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he knows everything. That's all. Not that he should know as Kṛṣṇa. If he... Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātam... If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. That is finish.
Jayādvaita: That knowledge itself is...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayādvaita: That knowledge itself is complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: There may be material things he doesn't know, but they're useless.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: If there's some material information that such a person doesn't know, that's not really knowledge anyway.
Prabhupāda: I did not follow.
Satsvarūpa: If he doesn't know how many people live in...
Jayādvaita: Just like Gaura-kiśora could not write. So it appeared that he did not, there was something that he did not know, although he knew Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows everything. Otherwise how Bhaktisiddhānta accepted him as guru? He knows Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Nalinī-kānta: Whatever the spiritual master says, that is also perfect?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he says nothing concocted. Whatever he says, he says from śāstra, and guru.
Prabhupāda: This is devotion: "Please come here, chant with me, and dance with me, and when you are tired, take prasādam." That's all.
Jayādvaita: They had five thousand dollars worth of faith yesterday in the prasādam.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. So whatever is said in the śāstra... Now, they say, "Faith begins from the tongue." "No," it is surprising. How is that? But it is a fact.
Baradrāj: So to encourage their faith, therefore the sādhu must set example of purity.
Prabhupāda: Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete koriyā aikya. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā. Don't go anywhere else. Take this faithfully, the orders of guru. You are singing daily. Ār nā koriho mane āśā. This is faith, strong faith. And that is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śraddhā-śabde—viśvāsa śudṛdha niścaya. Viśvāsa, firm faith. That is śraddhā. Faith means to believe strongly. That is faith.
Brahmananda: So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries such as Europe and America. By the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange." "Yours sincerely?"
Prabhupāda: "Yours sincerely" all right, or "Your well-wisher"?
Lalitā: "Well-wisher."
Prabhupāda: "Your well-wisher." (Bengali) Word is already there. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete karīyā aikya. (Bengali) So immediately type it and give it to her.
Devotee (3): :Then how is it that some people do finally come to accept Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They come in the paramparā system, through guru. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you have to go to guru to understand. You cannot understand personally. That is not possible. Therefore our system is to see through the guru and śāstra, not by these naked eyes. That is misleading.
Devotee (3): Then the key would be to recognize and appreciate the importance of the guru.
Prabhupāda: Parampara. Guru is also not authority by himself. He is authority by his guru, paramparā. If he is coming in the paramparā system, then he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. Just like what we are doing? We are simply repeating the Kṛṣṇa's word. That's all. Therefore guru. And as soon as I make addition or alteration, I am goru
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: Yes. In Germany, this one man he wrote that this movement is very dangerous, because these boys and girls who have come to this movement, they completely, they make themselves completely subservient to the dictation of one man.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Haṁsadūta: What ever the man will say, they will do.
Prabhupāda: Charmistic? What is called? Charmistic Guru? He has said Dr. ...
Hari-śauri: Charismatic.
Prabhupāda: Charismatic. (laughs) Yes, what is that charismatic?
Haṁsadūta: Charisma means a person who has a very strong attraction, he attracts.
Prabhupāda: He has said, actually our whole movement is going on on this. Everyone is carrying the charismatic, (laughs) all.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, they know there's something different about our movement, I mean from any other. Everybody who sees the devotees for the first time, they immediately know these people are completely different from anyone else.
Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir, yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23), this is the Vedic principle of our movement. Yasya deve parā bhaktir, yathā deve tathā gurau.
Haṁsadūta: Have faith.
Prabhupāda: To respect and love the spiritual master as God. Therefore it is brainwash.
Haṁsadūta: This is the strength of our movement, faith in the guru and śāstra.
Prabhupāda: And everyone is writing, let them write that. So they see that, "Why this one man is so respectfully accepted, it is brainwash."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Most dangerous... Those who are neophyte, they will be always in danger.
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes these...
Prabhupāda: Always in danger because they are neophytes, just like a child is always in danger. So how you can save them? He's always in danger. So as far as possible, let us try. He's going to the fire. He's going to the water. He's going to the animal. He's eating some poison. So always in danger. That childish age is dangerous. Therefore mother takes care. Danger is already there because he's neophyte, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. Therefore we have to abide by the injunction of the śāstra and guided by guru. That's all. That is our secure position. And otherwise danger always.
Pṛthu-putra: One boy in Paris, he had a visit...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, this is the position. Those who are neophyte, they are always in danger. Therefore their duty is to be guided by sādhu-śāstra-guru. That's all. That is our... Now, I'll say from my practical life... It is not pride. Actually everyone knows that my Guru Mahārāja had thousands of disciples. So out of thousands of disciples, practically I am little successful. That everyone knows. Why? Because I firmly believed in the words of my guru. That's all. This is the... There may be many other Godbrother, maybe very learned and very advanced, whatever it may be, favored, and... Everyone claims that "I am the most favorite." And practical point of view... So I think sometimes that "Why this wonderful thing has happened to me?" So I search out. I search out only that I cent percent believe in the words of my spiritual... That's all, nothing else. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā. Don't think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success. You are daily singing, guru-mukha-padma-vākya. You know the meaning?
Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā.
Prabhupāda: This is the instruction. And the child decides it that "Whatever my parent says, that's all I shall do. I shall do nothing," then he's safe.
| Page Title: | Sadhu, Sastra and Guru (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 10 of Feb, 2009 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=17, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 17 |