Roman (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"roman" |"roman's" |"romans"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: What is your hierarchy in Kṛṣṇa conscious? That is, do you have anything comparable to bishops and the hierarchy of the Christian faith and of other major faiths? That is, you are the spiritual preceptor, and who are all those below you, between you and the congregation, the members?

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly the hierarchy, but in the Christian method, Roman Catholic method, the process of the Pope, Archbishop, and..., that is very nice. There is no objection of us. But our point is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is lacking. In spite of all arrangement, if people lost faith in God, so simply by hierarchy, what is the benefit there? There is no benefit. You see? Bambarambhe laghu-kriya, in the Sanskrit word, that you can make a very high-grade arrangement, but the result is zero. So that hierarchical arrangement is exactly not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But our method is very simple. If one is fortunate enough to meet a bona fide spiritual master and if he acts strictly under his discipline, he also becomes within a very short time another spiritual master.

Interviewer: How does one feel called toward Kṛṣṇa conscious? That is, does he begin by having faith or does...? What demands are made upon him? How does he come into the frame of mind where he can accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): What is your view of predominant Western civilization, Sir?

Prabhupāda: This predominance is dwindling. Where is your British Empire gone?

Journalist (1): Yes, quite. In fact, I was asking you about...

Prabhupāda: So this is artificial. There was Roman Empire, there was Mogul Empire, there was Carthagian Empire, there was Egyptian Empire and Greece and so on. They come and go. And there is a song by a Vaiṣṇava, kata caturānana, māri māri yāvatā.(?) There are so many Brahmās come also and they died. So this kind of empirical imperial, onslaught, they will come and stay for hundred or two hundred, and create some problems. There were...Just like there was Napoleon, there was this and that. So they will come and go. They will come and go, create some disturbances and go. Nobody will stay.

Journalist (1): Yes, but they don't seem to be improving society. When they do come and go, society doesn't seem to improve on the way.

Prabhupāda: If you cannot... if you remain demon then there is no question of improvement. You must be prepared to become... There are two classes of men. One is called god, or demigod; another is called demon. If you continue your demonic civilization, there is no question of happiness. That Hitler will come and this will come, that will... They will fight for some time, create some disturbance and go away. Another Hitler will come, another will come, another will come. This way.

Journalist (1): There will always be unhappiness amongst...

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Weir: Far more acceptable to every type of Christian than any of the specific creeds or sects, you know, the Church of England, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, every other form of prophecy. And you have that greater universality. (indistinct) And you've got Tibetans (who) will accept your places in the same way as a westerner could.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Weir: A Tibetan could accept your position.

Prabhupāda: Tiberian? Tibetians? What is their philosophy?

Dr. Weir: You've heard of the Dalai Lama?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What does he say?

Dr. Weir: Well, his position would be the same as yours. Wouldn't it? In religion?

Mensa Member: You mean the Tibetan Buddhist attitude about the Godhead is the same as the Kṛṣṇas?

Dr. Weir: Yes. They have that same basis.

Prabhupāda: But so far we know that Buddhists they do not believe in God, existence of God.

Dr. Weir: No. They believe in this existence of a "Godness" if you like.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.

Guest (2): Yes, but what I'm trying to get at is that it seems to me that if you carefully look at the world history during the past...

Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.

Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.

Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.

Guest (2): I mean...

Prabhupāda: You mean, but that is not the fact.

Guest (2): It's a fact, I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.

Prabhupāda: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible. This is Vedic civilization: how people will be happy. They can be happy simply by self-realization, spiritual realization, because he is spirit. Material advancement will never make us happy, that's a fact. People have not become happy. In India they say that we neglected this material side therefore. But actually that is not the fact.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yaśodānandana: We want to put Kṛṣṇa in palace.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving you the opportunity, you Americans. Now you are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be the most opulent nation of the world. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa both. You have got Lakṣmī, but if you take Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī will be permanent. Lakṣmī will not go. And if you reject Nārāyaṇa, then Lakṣmī will stay for some time. That is Cañcalā. Her name is Cañcalā. The British empire has failed, the Roman Empire has failed, the so many empires, the Mogul empire has failed, because they wanted Lakṣmī, not Nārāyaṇa. If you take Nārāyaṇa, your Lakṣmī will stay. Just try to convince your countrymen, just like President Nixon. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that I was dictated to go to America, because Kṛṣṇa wants that you should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa wants. So you have taken. Now spread. It will be grand success. And there are so many candidates, very nice. All right, go on, take... (end)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): And I told them directly and indirectly, "Your systems, which have transplanted the well, type systems, especially of India, has created a catastrophe. We have made mistakes in the past. But we profited by them, and we want a successful educational system that taught the individual how to give himself peace within himself, mentally and physically. Within his family, within his relations society, nation and the world. And today that system has been overtaken by this materialistic system. One calls himself materialist directly. Another, camouflage, just under the name of religion. That's the only difference I know of in these two systems in the West. That's the only difference." And I told them. I said, "We want peace. Śānti, śānti, śānti. And we know the danger of playing with the fireball of materialism, which is throwing its tentacles into every part of society: divorces, nervous cases, mental cases, cancers, suicides, family life is breaking. And it reminds me of Gibbon's writing about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. And all those symptoms are there in this so-called progressive, civilized culture." I used the word "so-called." And this mind...

Prabhupāda: But what remedy you have suggested?

Buddhist Monk (1): Reduction of greed, and substitution of liberality. There is no other remedy.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We are teaching Sanskrit to our students.

Jesuit Priest: Yes, but all I was saying was, isn't it difficult to get across at times what you can see the meaning in the Sanskrit, but you can't put it into acceptable English? You know what I mean. The idiom isn't the same.

Prabhupāda: We are giving every word, meaning. The book... Have you got any book? Bring it. You can see. Each and every word of Sanskrit we are giving meaning. Our mode of presentation is first of all we put the original Sanskrit language in devanāgarī character. Then we give English, Roman transliteration, pronouncing the same word by diacritic mark. Then each word is translated into English. Then we give translation, the whole. And then we give the purport. This is our way. So we are giving meaning of each and every word means we have got considerable knowledge of that word. Otherwise how we can give? Yes.

Jesuit Priest: I was just thinking how difficult it is. I read Latin pretty well. And Greek. And I can see the meaning in the original, in the Greek when it was translated from the Aramaic. Now in your translating you can get a phrase, and if you know the language, you know exactly what it conveys.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit Priest: Put it into English and somehow, some of the meaning has come...

Prabhupāda: Then that exact...

Jesuit Priest: It's like the French. How do you say in..., how do you translate "au revoir"?

Prabhupāda: Otto?

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just... Just the... You have seen the... Just show him how it is done. Yes, you can do it.

Revatīnandana: That's all right. Mahādeva, you do it.

Prabhupāda: You see the original Sanskrit.

Mahādeva: Here's the text, here's the original Sanskrit. And we have a Roman transliteration, and then individually, the word meanings.

Jesuit Priest: Oh, I see. I've got it, yes.

Mahādeva: And then a full translation.

Jesuit Priest: Translation. Yes. They're marvelous. Yes. Yes.

Revatīnandana: Actually, most of the Sanskrit, much of that work is done by one of Prabhupāda's disciples now. He handles much of the Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are being trained.

Revatīnandana: It's a mechanical process, after all. But the translation, that requires not only knowledge of the language, it requires spiritual realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then what kind of scientist you are?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A rascal scientist. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I put a question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Candanācārya: Yesterday I made the acquaintance of a theologist, a professor from the University of Montreal. He said that the Roman Catholic presentation of Christianity is that God came to share the suffering of man.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. Why God should share the sufferings of man?

Candanācārya: I asked him this, and he said, "So that man would accept more as reality, suffering."

Prabhupāda: Very good theologician. A rascal number one. You are trying for becoming happy, and his theory is that man will accept suffering. You see? The very proposition is rascaldom. Everyone is trying for to become happy. That is progress. Ātyantika. In Sanskrit it is called ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. There is suffering, and our struggle for existence means to, I mean to say, mitigate the suffering, to minimize or to make it nil. That is our struggle. We are not submitting to suffering. Then what is the civilization? What is human civilization: We don't want suffering. That is our position. Why this rascal says that "We shall suffer"? Just see. The theologician is a rascal. Therefore we say everyone rascal.

Prajāpati: The same theologician, Prabhupāda, he calls himself an atheist theist.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Candanācārya: He said, "I am an atheist theist."

Prabhupāda: Atheist theist? What is this?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Any education. You train a child to the standard of that education and he will develop his intelligence. A child who does not know what is what, the father says "This is... My dear child, it is watch." Once, twice, thrice, you call, "Watch, watch, watch," he learns, "This is watch." Jaya, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi, aside) So one has to awaken the intelligence. So that supreme intelligence is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one comes to the point of supreme intelligence, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a rose flower, when it comes to the full blooming stage, it is very beautiful, fragrant, like that. So when a living entity comes to the understanding of his constitutional position, what he is actually, and acts like that, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is full development. That is called buddhi-yogam. Buddhi is there, intelligence is there, and when it is fully developed for understanding Kṛṣṇa, that is called buddhi-yogam. Yes. Buddhi-yogam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti. Buddhi-yogam means the intelligence, but... Don't come near. The intelligence which gets the living entity back to home, back to Godhead. That is called buddhi-yogam. Any yoga system means connecting link with the Supreme. When we speak of buddhi-yogam, that is the ultimate yoga. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata antar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). All different types of yoga practice, the most important and topmost yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa always within oneself. That is being practiced, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The topmost yoga system. (break) You are experienced. Try to understand this philosophy and give it to your country. Your country is a most important country in Europe. Roman civilization.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Greek civilization, Roman civilization, is the beginning of European civilization. So your position is very nice.

Italian Man (1): Well, yes. When I was a child I was brought up to go to the mass every morning, and I used to answer in Latin, you know, and serve the priest.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Italian Man (1): Yes. Even twice a day until the age of fourteen, and then we went to catechism. And then I left, I left alone, you know, by my own will. (break) It would be fantastic to go back with a background of, with the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and talk to them about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...this boy, he is going to develop our Italian center, Rome. (break)

Italian Man (1): ...the personal and impersonal features of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Italian Man (1): Kṛṣṇa, being at the same time infinite expansion of energy and also being form, a person.

Prabhupāda: Yes, person. Originally He is person.

Italian Man (1): In the heart, you know.

Prabhupāda: That is another expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Localized.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: In fact, the word "London" is coming from the Latin word londonium. Londonium was a small fishing fort that the Roman's founded on the Thames.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You are not sufficiently covered.

Satsvarūpa: I'm all right.

Prabhupāda: No, you are not all right. (pause) (break) Indian civilization is that they constructed big, big buildings, but for God, Kṛṣṇa, temple. And for the people, they were satisfied in small villages. So far the temples are concerned, South Indian temple, wonderful temple. (aside:) Not so near. Mostly Viṣṇu temple. We shall go this side?

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In Tokyo there is a park, this sound was there. (sound of birds chirping) Cement, no?

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And fish combined.

Dhanañjaya: Yes, seahorse. Did such an animal exist, seahorse? Or is this man's imagination?

Prabhupāda: No, seahorse we have heard, there is. Sea elephant, seahorse, there are. (break)

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: And fish combined.

Dhanañjaya: Yes, seahorse. Did such an animal exist, seahorse? Or is this man's imagination?

Prabhupāda: No, seahorse we have heard, there is. Sea elephant, seahorse, there are. (break)

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...fighting and all kinds of games. Four boys died that year trying to... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...and Roman climate the same? No.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Rome is a little warmer, isn't it?

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Now the whole city is a little more humid.

Prabhupāda: Paris?

Satsvarūpa: It's sunny.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Sunnier than London. Very close to London.

Dhanañjaya: Not cold like London ever.

Prabhupāda: There is snow. (break) ...and Darjeeling. (break)

Atreya Ṛṣi: Anthropomorphic.

Prabhupāda: Anthropomorphic. That means man worship.

Satsvarūpa: They deify a man. He's a man but the people make him as a god.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Richard Webster: Would that be a sin in a non-Kṛṣṇa follower?

Prabhupāda: It is for everyone. When we speak something from the Vedic scripture, that is meant for everyone.

Richard Webster: I mean a Roman, perhaps, has never heard of Kṛṣṇa before. He breaks all your five rules, does he not, every day. Is that a sin in him? If he drinks wine...

Dhanañjaya: He's saying, all the people in Rome who have never heard of Kṛṣṇa...

Richard Webster: They drink wine and do all the things which are... Well, perhaps not all, but anyway, some of them. Would that be...

Prabhupāda: I do not...

Dhanañjaya: He's asking if they're very sinful if they don't have any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or any of the rules of our movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa... Ignorance is no excuse. If there is law and if you do not know the law, and you commit offense, that is no excuse, that you do not know the law. Similarly, human life is meant for understanding God. That is the main business of human life. If one does not know this law, then he is sinful.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Law cannot be different, but it can be modified according to the time and circumstances. But the law cannot be different.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Maybe you could ask specific examples of differences.

Richard Webster: Well, for Roman Catholics it is right to drink wine, for instance.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Drinking, intoxication.

Richard Webster: Not intoxication, to drink wine.

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is wine? He's saying that a Roman Catholic can take wine. The law allows them to take wine.

Richard Webster: Or tobacco or meat.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Or tobacco or meat. So the rules are different.

Prabhupāda: Then rules are not different, but we have to see. Just like your commandments. In the commandments there is "Thou shall not kill." Then how you can eat meat?

Richard Webster: Well, that is a possible argument, but I'm thinking about even lesser things such as wine or...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine. Can...

Richard Webster: And no Roman Catholic will admit that it is wrong to drink wine.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Wine is sanctioned?

Richard Webster: I don't mean to get drunk. I mean to...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine, for today's Roman Catholics, they think it is sanctioned.

Prabhupāda: They think so many other things also. Just like Roman Catholics, there is example: they have allowed marriage between man to man. Do you know that?

Richard Webster: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. They publish a monthly magazine. I have seen in that magazine. They are condemning that the priests have allowed marriage, man to man. And...

Richard Webster: In New York maybe. Not in Rome.

Prabhupāda: Christianity does not mean in New York it should be different and Rome it should be different. Then nobody is following.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Could it be, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this sanction of wine drinking be from God? Could that sanction come from God? Do we think that is possible?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well. I understand. But I only think that the dietetic rules would be perhaps an obstacle to the spreading... I mean certain rules which are clean against European or American custom might constitute an obstacle to the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I mean, in the Roman Catholic church you have the monks. Then you have the laity who observe less strict rules without being considered outside God. And you don't have that, do you? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa movement is a movement of what we should call monks or religious... There is no laity in the Roman Catholic Christian sense, people of the world who are doing messy things, I mean, trading the drugs or whatever it is because it's a job they have to do, but belong to the church without being strictly religious.

Prabhupāda: At least the church people, the priests, they must follow strictly the rules.

Richard Webster: Yes. But I mean the difference seems to be with the Christian...

Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: It is beyond their understanding.

Bhagavān: We are the only ones who are preaching like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual benefits, they do not understand. What is this building? This is also old construction?

Bhagavān: It's a church. (asking someone:) Is that from the Roman empire? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in right position. All wonderful buildings, there is no doubt. Such huge buildings in any other parts of the world is not visible. Just the thickness of the building.

Bhagavān: They kept many slaves the Romans. They had many slaves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Slaves? This word is used in Vedic language also, slave. The Africans, they were meant for becoming slaves.

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can we take a picture here please?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So the Kirātas, they were always slaves of the Āryans. The Āryan people used to keep slaves, but they were treating slaves very nicely. Later on it degraded. Otherwise, slaves were kept just like family members.

Bhagavān: They had no resentment.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very happy. Just like you keep a dog. It is slave but it is very happy under the protection of good master.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature's force and accept another body. That they do not know. They are satisfied, "Never mind, I accept the next life a dog's body. Now let me enjoy this, say, twenty-five years or fifty years, that's all." This is their philosophy. No future. "Trust no future, however pleasant." In India, those who are interested in spiritual life, they take sannyāsa. Everybody sannyāsa, bābājī. Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up his service, everything, and became no possessions voluntarily. Big, big kings, Bharata Mahārāja... To practice that "I have no more interest in anything material." (break) ...introduction of my Guru Mahārāja that sannyāsīs and preachers may use big, big buildings, motorcars and..., just to give the information to the western world. Because they, if you ask them, that "You become a mendicant, possessionless," still, they are not very much interested. Because they see our dress, our living condition is not very equal to their standard, they do not like. Is it not? Yes. So just to give these Westerners facilities at least to understand this philosophy, this method was accepted by Guru Mahārāja, to live in nice building, to have cars, to use everything for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, nobody would take.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, they are thinking that this is all. A group of men is coming, and they are exploiting the resources, material world. Just like this building. It is nothing but exploiting the resources. Making brick from the earth or stone or iron. And they pile up. Just like the children goes to the beach, they pile up the sand, and they imagine that somebody is making big palace, somebody is...

Dhanañjaya: Big castle.

Prabhupāda: Big castle. And at a time they left. In the Roman, the... Formerly, the Romans, they also came. They also constructed big, big buildings. Now they are rotting, and another generation, they also are creating the same thing. But exactly like the children, after playing, they are going. Nobody knows where they have gone. Similarly, these rascals, they are coming. They have got the human intelligence. Simply spoiling that intelligence in amassing the external resources of material nature, and they leave the platform, and again go away and take the birth of some other form of life. Everything forgotten just like dream. This is going on. They cannot understand it has no value.

Dhanañjaya: They are thinking their success is in building huge skyscrapers that stand for thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And within that thousands of years, he personally might have gone to the species of some worms and germs. That they do not believe. If they believe that, then they cannot do it. If they think that "After constructing this big, big skyscraper, I may become a tree or a germ or an animal," then they cannot do this. And they do not encourage this philosophy also. Because if they encourage that, then this thing will not be done. People will not be interested. Just like we are not interested. Therefore they do not like to discuss such thing. This is their position. We are trying to get out of these activities, material activities. And they are trying to entangle themselves in the material activities. So much difference. This is a nice path.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, there was a French philosopher, Voltaire. He said you should not simply criticize negatively, because this is the best of all the possible worlds there is. This is all we have. So they would criticize that our hope in the spiritual world is utopian. Better turn to cultivate the material world as best you can.

Prabhupāda: No, material world we can see that it is useless. Everyone sees. That I am giving, this example. Before, the Romans, they constructed this big, big building. Now what is the value of that? It has no value. Simply it is kept as sentiment, relics. That's all. So this will be also the same thing. So where is the utility? Spiritual, apart from spiritual, what is the value of your material activity? It is practical. Everyone can see. If one comes to Rome, they can see that these big, big buildings, they were very nice building at that time, very wonderful building, but what is the value of it now? Anyone can see. Any sane man can see. So why should we waste our energy in that way? If there is any valuable work, let us see. That is intelligence. To make another heaps of relics, is that very good sense? Nobody will go there even to urine or pass stool.

Dhanañjaya: No facilities.

Prabhupāda: No facility. Nobody is...

Dhanañjaya: Only the cats go there.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Dhanañjaya: So many cats are living there.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our duty because everyone is rascal. So we have to give them knowledge. The first basic principle, knowledge, that "You are not this body." And they will never agree. They will not take this knowledge. They will stick to this principle, "No, I am this body, I am American," I am Indian, I am brāhmaṇa, I am kṣatriya, I am this, I am that." They will stick to that. So as soon as they stick to this principle, they are animals. The dog is also thinking like that. If I say to a dog, "Mr. dog, you are not this body; you are soul," what he will understand? The same position of the so-called human society. If I say that "You are not American; you are not Roman; you are spirit soul," he will not agree. So what is the difference between dog and him? Is there any difference? The dog cannot understand. If I say, "My dear dog, you are not this body; you are spirit soul," he will not be able to understand. And if I say a gentleman, American or Indian or Roman, that "You are not this body," if he cannot understand, then where is the difference between the dog and the man?

Dhanañjaya: No difference.

Prabhupāda: That's it. He is a dog actually, and he is thinking "That I am very advanced, civilized." This is the position. Because he has no knowledge. Without knowledge, there is no difference between dog and man. Dog is sleeping on the street very comfortably and you are sleeping on the top of the skyscraper building, taking three dozen pills. (laughter) So what is your civilization? Because for want of knowledge they cannot understand that "What is our actual position. The dog is an animal. He sleeps very comfortably on the street, and I have spent so much money, but I cannot sleep without this tranquilizer." So where is your advancement? Such a nonsense he is.

Devotee: No control.

Prabhupāda: No. No knowledge. That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Go to guru. Guru. Yes. (indistinct) Who is guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: who has heard from the Vedas perfect knowledge and who is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru. Everything is there. Immediate answer is tad-vijñānārtham. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for inquiring where shall I go for knowledge? Athāto brahma-jiñāsā.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet

samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

(MU 1.2.12)

Everything is there. When they were building this costly skyscraper, they forgot that this skyscraper will be the same fate as there were big, big Roman buildings two thousand years ago. Because I will have to leave. Although the building is very solid, it will not be destroyed within five thousand years, but you are not going to live here for five thousand years. You can live for fifty years sir. Then go away. Then it will be relic. That's all. So why don't you make guarantee, that "I have made this strong building to stand for five thousand... Let me live also." Where is your that knowledge? This is illusion. They know it, that "I shall not be able to live in this house. I shall not get the duration of life as big as this building will have. Then why am I wasting my energy in this way? I shall be zero after fifty years." What is this knowledge? You are not also going to enjoy. Then he is pleased that "My sons and grandsons and..." Who is your grandson? Who is your son? That he does not know. Nobody's son, nobody's grandson. Everyone is coming just like we have come, and they will go away. So similarly, they are coming and going. This is... No knowledge.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, I have been in Rome. Those... Two thousand years ago, they also constructed big, big arena, Roman arena, this temple, that temple. Now they are simply relics. Those who constructed, they're finished. And where they have gone, nobody knows. And whatever they did, that is simply relics. That's all. So when they acted on these big, big buildings, it was very important business. The same building is standing, and it is useless.

Robert Gouiran: But the relic of a ship doesn't mean that the ship has been useless.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: His, he says...

Prabhupāda: No, no. For the time being. It is useless... Actually, it is useless. But for the time being, we are taking as very useful. Just like the aeroplane. It is very useful. But as soon as crashed, where is the...? Whole thing is lost. And it will crash. Because everything material we are creating... Just like the big, big buildings. They're also crashed. The end is there. Anything material, it has got beginning, and it has got end. That is our point. So things which will end in due course of time, why we should waste our time in that way? And we are part and parcel of God. We have got different business. We have forgotten that. We are simply engaged in temporary castle building which will be relics after some thousands of years. So are we not wasting our time?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: You know or do not know, the transformation will take place. Take, for example, the ship. The ship is combination of these five material things, earth, water, air, fire and... And when it is destroyed, it again turns into earth, water, fire... So the conservation of energy is there. You simply give a shape, temporary, and it goes again to the same place, original physical elements. This is going on. But you are... You do not know that you are eternal. That is ignorance. So therefore the sense is that "If I am eternal, then why I am busy with these temporary things?" That knowledge is lacking. I am eternal. So now, as human being, I am busy in temporary things, to construct a big ship or aeroplane. But as soon as I change this body, I become a bird, I have no power. Then I manufacture a nest on the top of the tree. That is my business. Or... Because the body will change. That is lack of knowledge. I am eternal. In this particular body I am busy with some temporary things. And as soon as I change my body, then another temporary thing. Eh? The... Suppose the big Romans. When they were Romans, they constructed all these big, big buildings. But if the Romans have changed into birds, they're no more interested in this body. They're interested in making some complicated nest on the top of the tree. This is going on, life after li... This knowledge is lacking. Therefore it is said, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni... They are struggling on this mat... (break) ...physical world by concocted mental speculation. That's all. As soon as the body is changed, then everything is changed.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Yeah, French guillotine.

Prabhupāda: You see. As soon as there is bell, the Roman Catholics began to kill the Protestants. So this is nature's law. You don't require to be sent to the slaughterhouse. You'll make your slaughterhouse at home. You'll kill your own child. Abortion. This is nature's law. What are these children being killed? They are these meat-eaters. They enjoyed. Now they are being killed by the mother. They do not know how nature is working. You must be killed. If you kill, you must be killed. That I've discussed in this now Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Where is Nitāi?

Bhagavān: They kill the cow, which is a mother, and then sometimes they get, when their mother kills them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mother becomes child and child becomes mother. That's all. Have you got transcription of the vyādha story?

Nitāi: The...?

Prabhupāda: Vyādha. The hunter, hunter story, recited by Caitanya Mahāprabhu?

Nitāi: Which...?

Prabhupāda: This twenty-fourth chapter, Madhya-līlā.

Nitāi: No, I don't think it's typed yet.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, tomorrow, till tomorrow.

Devotee: He has a room upstairs.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, yes, thank you very much. I am Benedictine monk in a monastery.

Prabhupāda: You are Roman Catholic?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Roman Catholic. But I follow the eastern rite of the Greek Orthodox church. In our monastery you get the two rites, the Roman Catholic and also the customs of life... It's like the Greek Orthodox monks. We also have the rosary.

Prabhupāda: Like us.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes. And continue also, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me." Also I repeat, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me."

Prabhupāda: Very good. You know Greek language?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So you know the word Christo.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Christ.

Prabhupāda: Christo means Christ.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Then where is love? If you disobey the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come here to teach them to love God. If you love me, you cannot disobey me. And if you disobey me, that love is not real.

Pater Emmanuel: Will that means that Christianity has to change their customs or the Christianity, Roman Catholic or Protestant, must return to the source?

Prabhupāda: (aside) You can sit on the chair if you like.

Guest: No, I like to sit, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Not only Christianity, everywhere, the people now do not love God, but they love dog. Yes. Therefore this movement is required, awakening of God consciousness. Not the Christians, they are only to be accused, but Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They are simply stamp, but no obedience to God. This is the position.

Pater Emmanuel: Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient. Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The first point is that your commandment is "Thou shalt not kill," and you are maintaining regularly slaughterhouse. The first commandment is disobeyed. Do you agree or not?

Pater Emmanuel: Um...

Prabhupāda: Or in my front the animals are being kept for being killed.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: A very major thing happenned to the Christian tradition in about 400 A.D. Up until that time, as best our records are, Christianity was very much like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very much like our movement. But at that time it became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Constantine, and it took on many of the paraphernalia of the old Roman demigod worship, and at that time it became a whole...

Prabhupāda: Just to make it favorable for your government, for the government.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then deterioration began.

Trivikrama: Deterioration.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they don't... Again, mentioning this Saul. Saul was converted on the way to Damascus, and he became a believer in God. Then, by himself, he traveled all over the known world and convinced everyone in the Roman Empire to accept, to accept Christianity. So it may have taken on those formal signs, but actually there was no process... According to them, there was no process done to dilute the religion or to weaken it or to change it, but it was only accepted by the masses. That's all.

Prajāpati: Actually a very interesting thing, in terms of this point, is that this Paul, Saul, was in conflict with the direct disciplic succession from Jesus in many points. Those who were his, Jesus's, direct disciples, Paul disagreed with them and cut out many of their teachings or the teachings that were coming down in direct disciplic succession to make it more palatable to the outlying areas.

Pañcadraviḍa: The government.

Prajāpati: Yes. So at that moment there, the disciplic succession was broken.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be. What is the wrong there, that, if we sit down together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any loss of our factory or work? But if there is some gain, why not try it?

Justin Murphy: A delightful idea, a beautiful idea, and a very simple-sounding idea. How about, however, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, who are bound in this...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the... No, Roman Catholics... We don't say that Roman Catholics cannot perform yajña. We say that you chant the holy name of God. So Roman Catholics they have God or not, no God?

Justin Murphy: Well, they think they do a lot of that on a Sunday morning.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, any religious system... Religious system means connection with God. Is it not?

Justin Murphy: Yeah, well, that's what it's supposed to be.

Prabhupāda: Without God, is there any religion? Any religion, is there any religion who will say, "No, we have no God." Is there any religion?

Justin Murphy: No.

Prabhupāda: So we are asking, "Chant the holy name of God." So if you are Roman Catholic...

Justin Murphy: Any man's God.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So we are asking, "Chant the holy name of God." So if you are Roman Catholic...

Justin Murphy: Any man's God.

Prabhupāda: Any man's God. God is one. God cannot be two. But we are thinking...

Justin Murphy: Roman Catholics don't agree with you on that, do they? Roman Catholics have their own God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no.

Justin Murphy: And this is one of the problems. It's nowhere near as simple as, I am sure, as you suggest, and I wish it were.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is simple. It is simple.

Justin Murphy: The Roman Catholics are a jealous people. Roman Catholics are jealous religious people. They refuse even still to accept, for example, that Anglicans pray in the same way as they do. They refuse to accept that Anglicans pray as well as they do.

Prabhupāda: No, one thing is that may be Anglican, may be Roman Catholics, may be Christian, may be Hindu or Muslim or anyone. Whether they have God in their conception of religion or not. Do they have God or no God?

Justin Murphy: Well they all have. They must have, to be a religion.

Prabhupāda: So I am asking that "You chant the holy name of God. If you have God, you chant the holy name of that God." I don't say that "You chant the holy name of my God." You chant the holy name of your God. God is one. Just like water. Somebody says "water," somebody says "pāni," somebody says "jala," but the end is, the aim is, water. Similarly, God... I may say "Kṛṣṇa," you may say "Jehovah," the Muslims may say "Allah," or others may say something else, but the aim is God.

Justin Murphy: Well, why aren't we better off then? Because obviously, therefore, going on what you've just said, there are a lot of people in Australia every day, perhaps certainly once every week, chanting the name of their God. Why then do we still have problems?

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Greek history is about three thousand years. (break) ...During the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit's grandson. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the grandson of Yudhiṣṭhira, and Yudhiṣṭhira ruled over five thousand years ago. So the Yayāti... Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's grandson is Parīkṣit. His son is Janamejaya. And his son is Yayāti. And his son started Greek and Roman Empire. So therefore the Greek history is not more than three thousand years. Mahārāja Yayāti banished his two sons to the European quarters. Mleccha-yavana. Later on they became yavana, from Vedic culture deviated. This is the history.

Amogha: He sent them there for conquering?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. He gave him, that "You take that place."

Amogha: Oh. "This is your kingdom."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every, all world was emperor, the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and the family. Sa-sāgara. Sa-sāgara means "including all the oceans." That means the whole world. There was one flag only during the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. And he first saw the cow-killing maybe in Africa or in Arabia. One black man was trying to kill a cow, and Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on tour, and immediately he punished him. That is Kali. The black man means Africa. Or where other place, black men?

Paramahaṁsa: Some of the, there are some natives in Asia also, southeast Asia, that are black.

Prabhupāda: Arabia? No. Arabians are not black.

Paramahaṁsa: Not... Generally they're not so black. Indonesians are black.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all they took the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven...

Śrutakīrti: The Romans had a very complicated system.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) If you write 1975 it will become so big. (laughter)

Śrutakīrti: Yeah. Some twenty letters.

Prabhupāda: This "Sunday, Monday," means first sun, then moon. Where they are going? They are going to hell, not in the moon. This Vedic description is right. Because first study, Sunday... That, we offer gāyatrī to the sun. So the moon is after the sun—this is the proof, first Sunday, then Monday. So if their calculation is 93,000,000 miles from here, and moon is (sic:) one million, six thousand still farther, then where they are going? If they simply follow strictly this moon expedition and they admit they have not gone, then the whole civilization will change. All wrong conclusion. But they will have to admit now. Now they are serious, and they will have to say that they've never gone to the moon. And they will have to continue this. Otherwise they will be farce before the world. They will have to continue it. Now they are in such a position.

Paramahaṁsa: They can't just stop and say, "OK, now we..."

Prabhupāda: If they stop, then they are failure.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And then everyone will complain, "Oh, you wasted billions of dollars."

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, let him come. Let him come. People may take or not take, but he is inquisitive gentleman. Let him understand. People... We are preaching. Who is taking? Mass of people, they are not taking it. But still, we are doing that. That is our duty. People may take or not take, but a God's servant must speak the truth. Just like Jesus Christ. He was crucified. Nobody took his words. But he did it. If people would have accepted his philosophy, then why he was crucified by the judges? It was done by the judges, Roman judges. So this is the position of the world. Socrates was killed because he said that there is soul. This is the defect of Western civilization. They want vox populi. What is that vox populi? Huh?

Devotee (1): Bauxite?

Prabhupāda: Vox populi. You know this word?

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, Latin.

Prabhupāda: Latin, yes. People's vote. The people may be asses, but still, their votes will be taken, the vox populi. The fourth-class, fifth-class men, and they are giving vote. And the mistake is detected. Just like this Nixon was voted and the mistake was detected. But still, they follow the same process, vox populi. What is the value of the votes of the fourth-class, fifth-class men? Better one intelligent man, if he knows things, if he is liberated, if he says, "This is right," that should be taken. That is Vedic civilization. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa. We are not accepting the vox populi. One person, the Supreme, that's all. This is our process. We don't accept vox populi. All these Vedic literature are accepted not on the people's vote, but who is presenting? Vyāsadeva is presenting, Kṛṣṇa is presenting. Parāśara Muni is presenting. Therefore they are accepted. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. So what is the value of their votes if they are not intelligent?

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Just see, foolishness. But at least somewhere there is no equal right in the lavatory. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greeting someone) I have received your letter, you can see me. (break) (Conversation continues in the car) This too much intermingling of woman means the path of hell. Therefore the restriction is that only the married couple can freely mix, not others. Mahat-sevāṁ dvār... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They are not interested associating with devotees. They are interested associating with man or woman, that's all. Woman is interested to associate with man, and man is interested to associate with woman. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Therefore the civilization is becoming hellish. It is already said in the śāstra. One should associate with spiritually advanced men, but that is not being done. Now the woman is hankering after man, man is hankering after woman. Yoṣit saṅg... Yoṣit means for sense gratification. Tamo-dvāram. This is the path of darkness.

Just like the priest was saying, "Oh, sex is very nice. Why you stop?" Just see. And he is a priest. Why the Roman Catholics they are ordered not to marry? Why? Roman Catholic are supposed... the fathers and priests, they should remain unmarried, is it not?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. They remain celibate. He was saying that it is a personal preference.

Devotee: They have no general rule. It's just that if you want to be celibate, then that's very nice, but if you want to have sex life...

Prabhupāda: Then why they have recommended this, unless there is some benefit?

Śrutakīrti: Well, that knowledge has been lost through the years. A few hundred years ago, many of the celibates were also vegetarian, but all that has changed.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am very happy. This house is quite suitable for our purpose.

Guest 1: They looked very hard and for a long time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest 1: And they had a lot of difficulty. This is one of the things that I imagine, you know, the story that the Catholic Church, Roman Catholic Church owned this property. And it was almost by devious means that it was acquired.

Prabhupāda: They did not want to give us?

Guest 1: He didn't want to sell direct, like that. Because that beautiful building across there, I think you saw photos...

Amogha: The convent. Śrīla Prabhupāda went through the convent.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Guest 1: They, we found out or the suggestion was... Because there were little power groups in that church that possibly the senior people don't know about, but they objected for some reason, which is very hard to understand.

Prabhupāda: In London we wanted to purchase one church that was not working. In London. But when we approached that priest, the in-charge, not directly to me but one of my disciples, he informed him that "I shall better set fire in this church. Still, I shall not give to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Guest 1: That's one reason that the main religion has possibly become bad in the eyes of non-religious people when they hear something like that. Because you could assume that whatever religion, if a person was religious...

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now, God has got son. That is all right, but what do you mean by God? Everyone has got son, but that does not mean everyone is God. What is the definition of God? You have got son. I have got son. So God has got son. That does not mean He is God. Everyone has got son.

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, you see, the Roman Catholics, if we were to consider this then again, would say that the son of God is one with God and the Holy Spirit as the Trinity...

Prabhupāda: And again, the description of the son.

Dr. Judah: Yes, the three are one.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but who is God? What is the definition of God? Just like king. We can describe, "King means who has got a big kingdom, a large tract of land. He is ruling over it," some description. So what is the definition of God in that...?

Dr. Judah: God is also the creator, they would say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.

Dr. Judah: Creator of the world.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is... when God is canvassing, "Here I am, Kṛṣṇa," they will not see it. And still, they accuse, "Nobody has seen."

Dr. Judah: Of course, in Christianity, which many of the Christians, I feel, are not following as closely as they should and have in the past, there is the idea, for example, in the Roman Catholic church, for example, at the time of the Mass, of experiencing the presence of God and there have been Christian mystics who have felt that they have experienced God. For example, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, and various ones.

Prabhupāda: So they must give description of God. If you have seen this rose flower, then you can give a description. If you cannot give a description, then how you have seen rose flower?

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, they have tried to give descriptions, but, of course, I think all descriptions that have been given of God are, as descriptions are inadequate. Because in my own feeling I believe that the full knowledge of God comes through the actual experience of God, experiencing God in our lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Kṛṣṇa was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education—everything, all topmost, Kṛṣṇa. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But where is the proof...

Woman reporter: You do not believe that there has been advancement of science since 1920?

Nitāi: Well, if the brain has been ascertained as being half the size then why should it change by now? Should it change?

Woman reporter: Well, do you think that the Romans weren't as tall as men are today?

Nitāi: No, but the... But then, within fifty years there is not going to be any change in the brain.

Woman reporter: Not in the 1900's. Why do you use the technology that you use? You didn't have cars in those days, this television. Things have changed since 1920.

Prabhupāda: So what change has become? Can you give any evidence that woman is more powerful in brain than the man during these years? Can you give any evidence?

Woman reporter: No, what I'm saying is that...

Prabhupāda: Now, can you give any evidence that woman has become more powerful than the man during these fifty years?

Woman reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Give me some tacit example.

Woman reporter: That she and I wouldn't be here if women weren't more powerful than they were fifty years ago.

Harikeśa: Now they are talking louder. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Is that...? They're cleaning the...?

Jayatīrtha: I don't know. They came there recently. It wasn't there a few months... Oh, they're tearing down that pier. They're tearing down that amusement park. (break)

Jayādvaita: The scientists say that material nature is supreme, but because we're unable to accept nature as the supreme entity, different cultures have gotten different ideas of God. They've made these things up. The Greeks had one idea, the Romans had another idea, the Indians had one idea. So we've accepted that instead of accepting nature, although nature is actually the supreme.

Prabhupāda: No, God is realized only by the devotees. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). So actually, God is realized through devotion. There is no other way. So in the proportion of one's development of devotional spirit, one realizes God. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). The proportion, devotion, required. But real process is devotion.

Jayādvaita: But how can that be scientifically presented? How can we accept that scientifically?

Prabhupāda: No, no, these rascal scientists, they cannot understand God. Those who were actually advanced, just like Professor Einstein and others, they believed so, that there is God; there is brain. (break) ...somebody was talking about another scientist, big scientist? Who was talking about?

Jayādvaita: That Werner Von Braun.

Prabhupāda: Ah, hah.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Harikeśa: They say he was a drunk.

Prabhupāda: But you are a mad. He is drunk, and you are mad. Where is the difference? So, if we can go? (break) It was a statement that the earth is flat. Eh? Where it was stated the earth is flat?

Harikeśa: Oh. That was a theory of one of the contemporary Roman philosophers.

Prabhupāda: It is not in Bible.

Harikeśa: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (Break) There is no information in the Bible at all about God. There's no information about God, simply that God is there, He's the creator, but nothing more.

Prabhupāda: That is in no scripture excepting the Vedic scripture. Clear conception of God is there in the Vedic. Definition of God, clear conception of God, everything is there.

Brahmānanda: Their idea is that God is so great that you cannot see Him.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You cannot see because you are worthless. But those who are worthful, those who have attained liberation, they can see. Just like it is stated in the Bhāgavata, apasyat puruṣam purnam. Apasyat: "He saw, Vyāsadeva." Huh... Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite amale apasyat (SB 1.7.4). When your heart will be completely cleared of all this material conception, then you can see. So long you are materially contaminated, it is not possible. That's a fact. But bhakti-yogena samyak pranihite amale. When the heart is cleansed, that is the process. Therefore we are insisting that "Let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ceto-darpana-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The heart will be cleansed. Then they will understand. All of a sudden, if you speak all this philosophy "Kṛṣṇa said," they will accept that "Why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man. Why shall I..."

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Indian classic par excellence on bhakti-yoga, attributed to Vyāsa, is one of the most important and influential religio-philosophical works within the Vedic tradition. Thanks to the devoted and scholarly endeavors of Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the entire work of twelve cantos will be available in a superb English edition for the benefit of the English-reading peoples. In his impeccable style the author presents each verse in original Sanskrit, followed by roman transliteration, English equivalents, translation, and elaborate commentary. The lucid and cogent exegesis brings into relief the theory and practice of Bhāgavata philosophy in relation to contemporary man and his problems of life. I have read the first volume containing First Canto, Part One, Chapter 1-7, with pleasure and profit. A brief account of the life of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu included in this volume illustrates the central theme of the entire text, the loving service of God. A glossary and index to Sanskrit verses and a general index have been added for the convenience of scholars. This monumental work is immensely valuable alike to historians of religion, linguistic scholars, cultural anthropologists, pious devotees, as well as to the general reader interested in spiritual matters. I recommend it highly to every student of Indian philosophy, culture, and religion."

Devotee (1): Then he ordered two standing orders for the library, and they took it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Oh, that Australian...? (break)

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: "It is axiomatic that no book can be expected entirely to satisfy all its potential readers. Here is one, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, however, which can be said to come remarkably close to that ideal. Clearly this book is intended mainly for those who are interested in, or may become so, transcendental science and, more specifically, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For them it could hardly be bettered, since the elaborate purports attached to each text explain elegantly and lucidly and in every possible detail the underlying meaning of the Sanskrit verses and their relevance to this increasingly popular philosophical outlook. The work is at the same time no less impressive to one who is a layman in the context of transcendental science. A student of Sanskrit or a general linguist with only a smattering of the language would gain much from going through this book and others in the set. That this is so is the result of the way the texts are presented. Each text in Devanāgarī is followed by an exact roman transliteration. This in turn followed by an English transliteration of each separate word. After this comes a translation in flowing English. The result is that with only a modest amount of effort one can succeed in reading and understanding the Sanskrit verses, and the experience is very rewarding. At the end of the book is appended a goodly amount of further helpful material. There is a glossary of important Sanskrit terms, a Sanskrit pronunciation guide, an index of Sanskrit verses in the whole of the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and a general index to the First Canto. In other words, we have here the ideal of what an edition of a Sanskrit text for a Western audience should be."

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Devotee (1): (break) ...in Mexico, and he's been asked to actually take charge of the Oriental Studies, specifically on Hinduism. And he's done a review on the Spanish Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Prabhupāda: This is Spanish language?

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: One thousand.... But where are other literatures like that, 1,500 years, in Europe and other places?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No such thing.

Prabhupāda: So only the literatures were here in India?

Pañca-draviḍa: No, they have them. They also have mythology in Greece, and Roman mythology too.

Prabhupāda: Mythology maybe, but so purposeful verses, where is in other country?

Pañca-draviḍa: Nowhere.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Balavanta: Bhagavad-gītā's philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañca-draviḍa: That they can't match anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can a caveman make it, then?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Trivikrama: Each verse, so...

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmaṁ tu...

Dr. Patel: I have not been able to find out any difference between the Bhāgavata-dharma and the Christianity. I have studied so thoroughly both of them. Actually Jesus Christ has taught nothing but Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. Still, the Christians, when they came here, these Portuguese, converted these people to Christians. They are fanatics. They are not...

Prabhupāda: No, they are doing.... They are doing in their own countries. In France the Roman Catholics and the Protestants, they are fighting and cutting each other's head. And still going on, it is. This is fanaticism.

Indian man: Political fanaticism.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Yes, and said Sītā was a prostitute. I don't know.... And still, the government could, I mean, support them. It's too much of a joke.

Prabhupāda: But these.... You cannot.... Even on religious principle or so-called religion, you cannot make equality. The rogues will always remain, either Hindu, Muslim.

Dr. Patel: You know that Naikar(?) last year. (break) Secular means you respect all religions. That is the definition of secularism. They mean, secularism means no religion. They are fools. You can call them rascals.

Prabhupāda: Because we rascals vote them.

Dr. Patel: No, sir. What man, rascals, vote them? It is the hutment fellows who bring them because they are in majority. I have never been elect to, I mean my candidate. Every time my vote goes useless.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Parliament, Westminster, everything.... (japa) They are now statues in Parliament and Westminster. So many statues, you know.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They're very fond of statues there.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...European civilization, coming from the Romans, statues also. (break) ...mean civilization means Roman civilization, is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes. The Roman Empire extended all over there.

Prabhupāda: England was under Roman Empire. Normandy. Normandy?

Kīrtanānanda: That's France.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...these gardener, they're engaged here.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He comes a certain period and looks after the garden. (japa) (break) ...are very famous gardener. Unfortunately, in Japan there is no space to make garden.

Kīrtanānanda: They do everything in miniature.

Prabhupāda: Everything. They have got so much intellect, technologists, everything—no land.

Kīrtanānanda: In material life there is always one thing lacking.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You can change, but if you do not change for the real good, then time will come, another change, another change. That is going on. Just like in Russia they wanted to change. They brought in revolution. But what is changed? They are still begging grains from America. So what is the use of that change? If you have to beg from other country for your food, then what is the benefit of such change? So this is going on. One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule. So where is that British rule now? And before that, there was Roman Empire, Carthagian Empire, Egyptian Empire, so many, Mogul Empire, then British Empire, now your American Empire. But these things will not help.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You can keep record.

Stansky: Yes. Now the reason I would like to keep a log and prepare an outline and start a book, say a year from now, it would show a transition from Roman priesthood to Hare Kṛṣṇa devotee. I think this would open up the door to all of the colleges and universities across the country.

Prabhupāda: Very good idea, yes. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). The nature is if we get better engagement, we give up inferior engagement. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. So this will be an example. You are a Roman priest. You are educated, learned scholar also. So when you come to this movement, you do not come here by sentiment or by whims. You consider, then you have come.

Stansky: This is what I wanted to say, that I'm not here because of sentiment. I'm here for very, very sound reasons, and I want to explain the reasons.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are presenting these books, that we are not a so-called sect of whimsical faith. It is based on science and authorities. Recently we have got report that our books have been taken in Hamburg University. You know Hamburg University?

Stansky: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Stansky: Your Grace, the thing that impressed me the very most at the temple in Los Angeles.... Now you must bear in mind that I am very, very steeped in Catholicism, I'm very steeped in the New Testament. So when I observed what was happening at the temple in Los Angeles, I was seeing the Book of Acts coming to life. Something that died three hundred years ago in the Roman church. In 300 A.D. it died. Since then there's been no such example. And I was just amazed wandering around because there I saw the exact, the Book of Acts. And I was impressed.

Indian girl: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: I think there are many good signs, however—your own movement. And we have..., I noticed you use the beads. We have a priest, Father Peyton, who gathers thousands to recite the rosary. Mostly young people. There are other movements that gather young people, which require a discipline. And perhaps since we think more in terms of the individual rather than the group, and the individual's decision, we possibly have forgotten that group discipline is very important. Therefore the attraction of your own movement and many others like that.... Within the Roman Catholics, there is now a very hopeful sign of mostly young people who are in what is called the charismatic movement, seeking to learn more of the Holy Spirit, seeking to change their lives for the better-however, at the same time, staying involved in the world. And it could be said that they seek to carry on the redemptive work of Jesus that he wishes done in the world, since he would be the key to our, to our advancement in the world. Our advancement, I say, and I'm not speaking of myself as a young man. But I think many young people in this charismatic movement, this is within Protestants and Catholics and others, I would say. There's a great emphasis among Jewish young people in the schools, to the development of the Jewish religion.

Prabhupāda: What is the difference? Can you explain? Young..., I have been several times inquired that why young people coming in this movement? What is the reason?

Jayādvaita: The specific qualification of our movement is that Śrīla Prabhupāda is giving information very scientifically in understanding God as the Supreme Person. Understanding not just that God is great, but understanding how God is great. Generally, we understand God is great, but how God is great, what His name is, what His form is, what His world is, there's no specific information.

Kern: You say there is not specific information?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: Generally speaking, there is no information given. But the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, from Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedic books, the information is given very specifically about how God is great.

Kern: I suppose that theology, study of God, is quite specific. Now whether would that information be given to groups, yes, I think so. We would speak of God as revealing Himself to us in very many ways. And therefore a group as large as this.... For example, tonight, Tuesday, there would be meetings of young people, Roman Catholics—and probably Protestants too, but I'm just thinking of Roman Catholic young people—who would be praying very earnestly and searching for God's revelation to them through their friends, neighbors, and their own experience of God. I don't know if.... I'm not familiar with the charismatic movement yet, so I'm only speaking in great generalities.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: The difficulty I have found by my personal experience with these groups is that it couldn't give me a concrete enough realization, neither a whole practical lifestyle by which I could stay on the platform of God realization. You can go to the meeting, but then when you go out in the society you're forced to act in so many sinful ways because of the conditioning and the advertising and the force of pressure in the society. But even.... I lived in a Trappist monastery in Spencer, Massachusetts, with the monks there, and there was still that gap between how I could not only fulfill my own spiritual life there, but also how to help others in theirs, without losing my purity. And that I've been able to find in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, because it gives you a twenty-four-hour a day program to remain in God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: In our Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Bhakta Gene: No. The term, we're having trouble with the term. The term "mystic" was applied to transcendentalists within the church to show a difference between them and the traditionalists. The traditionalists were those who paid attention to the script.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by traditionalist?

Bhakta Gene: The traditionalists are strictly the old Roman Catholic traditionalists.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from Roman or, what do you mean by traditionalist?

Bhakta Gene: Those who abided by tradition rather than the scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Oh, scripture, they have no respect for scripture?

Bhakta Gene: Well, they had respect for scriptures, but they had more respect for tradition. Ritualistic laws.

Prabhupāda: What is the tradition?

Satsvarūpa: The way the church would apply the ritual rather than actually trying to...

Prabhupāda: But that is required. That is required. Just like we are worshiping the Deity. This is traditional. From time immemorial. So how you can reject? This is the way. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). That is bhakti way.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Bhakta Gene: But so much of the tradition within the Roman Church has no reference to any scripture.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that has not been properly done. Otherwise, just like here, we have got temple, regulative principle. If it is done properly, the result will be there. If it is improperly done, then there is no result. How these boys, European, American, they never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But on account of this following the traditionalism, they are becoming devotees. It is practical, you can see. Simply theoretical knowledge will not do. Must be practical. That is traditionalism. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. That is the Nectar of Instruction. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. This is traditional. One has to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). First of all one must be enthusiastic: "I shall become devotee." Then, utsāhān dhairyāt, with patience. Then niścayāt, with conviction: "Yes, I am following the rules and it will be successful." And tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Sato vṛtteḥ, you must be honest. Sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). And these things in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. Then your bhakti, devotional life, will be successful.

Satsvarūpa: Some of these Christian mystics would say it's more important to directly contact God within your own heart. These traditions are not as important.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mantra in Sanskrit language, it may... The letters may be different, but it is a transcendental sound. The sound must be vibrated. You cannot translate it. The sound as it is... Just like Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, the sound must be produced. You cannot translate. Then it will be artha, arthavad. That is prohibited. You cannot interpret or do other way... The sound vibration must be there. Then it will continue in sanctity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that to say the mantras can be written in Devanāgarī script or in Roman letters, but...

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the sound must be the same.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The sound is important.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the sanctity is in the sound vibration and not so much that it's in the Sanskrit letters itself. May I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? "Are fasting and other dietary regulations necessary for leading a spiritual life?"

Prabhupāda: Certainly.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Harry, Harrison, like that.

Devotee (1): They are saying Kṛṣṇa's name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read more? "There are several hundred thousand members of the movement, several hundred thousand members of the movement throughout the world. Ten thousand in New York City alone." Actually, there are at least ten thousand followers. "Of these, about a hundred and fifty are full-time students and live at 340 West Fifty-fifth Street, an eleven-story former Josephine Baird Home of the Roman Catholic Carmelite Nuns." This was a nunnery. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa center on West Fifty-fifth Street draws about five hundred lay devotees and curiosity-seekers from the metropolitan area every Sunday. Open house begins at five p.m. A great drawing card is the serving of prasādam, food specially prepared for and offered to Lord Kṛṣṇa before being distributed to the public. The eating of prasādam, (see the article, "Food of the Gods" on a later page), is believed by members of the movement to convey important spiritual benefits—for example, the cleansing of karma due to past sins. Movement members are not unaware of the more immediate and mundane effect. 'Prasādam is our secret weapon,' said Alaṅkāra dāsa, spokesman for the center. 'It gets them in here, and then they can get the message.' Les Tursley, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, India-based senior member of the movement, has said of prasādam in his country..."

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.

Hari-śauri: That was when he died? He died then?

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Same in the West.

Prabhupāda: And that is also younger age, no old. Old age, they are never... There is no such case. Only younger generation, within thirties, twenty to thirty, they are fighting.

Hari-śauri: Even in the West, the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't allow divorce. The Church of England was started on that because Henry VIII didn't like his wife, and he wanted to divorce, and the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't let him. So then he did do, so they excommunicated him. So then he started his own church and made up his own laws. Otherwise, now there's a big push in Italy for divorce and everything, but even in the last ten years there's been no divorce. They don't allow it. And chastity of the woman was still very greatly appreciated too.

Prabhupāda: Woman infidel, they are stoned among the Muhammadans. Christian also. "You have done..." Woman proved unchaste, she was punished. Is it not? The public would stone and kill. You know that punishment? Stoning?

Hari-śauri: Stoning, yes. It's mentioned a lot in early Christian times. They used to stone.

Prabhupāda: Everyone will throw a stone. Very tortuous death, stoning.

Hari-śauri: I remember my auntie's mother. She was Italian, and she used to wear black all the time. Just like the widows here, they wear white, so she was wearing black. She was a widow. So all the widows, even I saw some young women...

Prabhupāda: Here also, in Gujarat, they wear black, black sari.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Nanda-kumāra: That's when they added the philosophy that you get one chance. It's either go to heaven eternally or go to hell eternally. Jesus actually... Some people are saying Jesus never taught anything like that, but when the early church changed everything to keep the people in ignorance and keep their own position, they added that feature, that unless the people surrendered to them they would go to hell.

Rāmeśvara: Actually there is a new movie in America which shows that Jesus was not even religious. He was a political revolutionary trying to overthrow the Roman government, and his followers created the myth. And this is becoming a popular idea.

Hari-śauri: That is another concoction too.

Gargamuni: Nobody knows, because there's no disciplic ācārya.

Rāmeśvara: The real point of that movie is there's no way to know anymore. Any theory now can be presented.

Hari-śauri: But at least if you look at what's there, in most of the Bibles anyway, the beginnings of Christ's movement are just like our own movement. All these men gave up all their material possessions. They went out and preached. And that was his general teaching too, that they should not worry for anything because God is supplying to everyone, even the birds and beasts. So why should they worry? Just go out and preach. That was his basic teaching to his twelve apostles.

Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?

Rāmeśvara: Actually there is some good lessons to learn from them, because they were persecuted, they were killed by the government even. But they didn't give up their faith. They remained very faithful, the early Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: They would take Christians and put them in the arena.

Rāmeśvara: That was their sport, entertainment, just like wrestling in India, but in the Middle East in Roman times the wrestling was fought until somebody had to be killed. That was their entertainment. They wanted to see them die. Even today, actually, all the entertainment in America and the Western world is based on violence. They have bull fighting. They want to see the bull tortured and killed. And they have chicken fighting and they have...

Prabhupāda: Dog fighting.

Rāmeśvara: And even the most popular sport in America now is football. It is more popular than baseball, and it's based on men jumping on each other. While one team is carrying the ball, every... A very violent sport.

Hari-śauri: And boxing also. So many different sports.

Rāmeśvara: They are fascinated by pain and fighting.

Prabhupāda: Torture. They like to see that somebody is tortured by another.

Hari-śauri: All the movies are becoming increasingly more violent. And on TV.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Anything. Śarīra nā mahāśaya, yā saha mithaya saha (?) There is a Bengali proverb that the body is very nice. If you practice something, it will tolerate. Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) And whatever plan he's making, it will be all frustrated. That is the whole history. Big, big emperor, big, big politicians, they have tried. Roman Empire, the Carthagian Empire, Greece Empire, Egyptian Empire, and Mogul Empire, British Empire—all frustrated. It will never be successful. For a few days, hundred, two hundred years or five hundred years, it may go on. So real plan is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is successful. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of false prestigious position, trying to be happy without God... That is not possible. Throughout the history you study. So many rascals have tried. The Napoleon, the Hitler, the Gandhi, this, that. What they have achieved? Nothing. If we honestly study their lives and activities, what they have achieved? Hm? Do you think they have achieved anything?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: They simply wasted their time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Therefore this is the best service, to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness for the human society and send them back home, back to Godhead. This is the best service.

Gargamuni: And if anybody helps us, then he is also greatly benefited.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: By this agitation our position will be improved. Prahlāda Mahārāja was suppressed in so many means. What was loss on his part? He improved more and more, more and more. If Christ were not crucified, then his cult would not have spread so much all over the world. The Christian cult was spread all over the world after demise of Christ, not during his time. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. The history was that there were many... At that time there many, many cults, and that was just another cult during the Roman Empire, and then that cult became very, very dominant.

Prabhupāda: Because he was persecuted, his cult became so spread.

Devotee: In Brazil, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we make a twenty minutes' in television, very, very nice.

Prabhupāda: In Brazil.

Devotee: Yes. Very many saw that. All, the whole Brazil saw that, Pañca-tattva...

Prabhupāda: They have captured our books?

Devotee: In Argentina. Argentina is a different mode, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very, very...

Prabhupāda: Why? Argentina is a Communist country?

Devotee: No. They're like a Third World country, Third World. There's a lot of Communists inside the country.

Prabhupāda: Third World? What is that?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done? A man has fallen in the dark well, crying. You give him one rope: "Catch it." But he'll not catch. Then how you can deliver? Let him suffer. So he had asked him to go to the municipal...?

Girirāja: Yes, 3:30 on Monday. These M.P.'s are just here for a few days, and they have very busy schedule. So I have arranged for one man to come tomorrow. He can see you... (break)

Prabhupāda: So? Now, this nationalism idea, so you have trace out the whole history. By introducing this nationalism, what improvement gave? Nationalism, the leader, it began in Europe, the Romans. They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...

Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about nationalism here in India?

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Shaven hair. So why you should be victimized by keeping hair? What victory you will gain? Conquer over the whole world, Roman Empire, by keeping hair? Hippie mentality, that's all. That is within the core of the heart. As soon as get some opportunity... Just like during summer season the field appears to be dried up. And as soon as there is some rain, oh, it is green, immediately green. So things are already there. Hm? Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now you see to the field. They're all dry. But as soon as there will be rain in the village, all green. So the seeds are there, hippie seeds. As soon as there is some opportunity, come out, green: "Yes, I am beautiful. Come on." But in the court room they never addressed. Judge never asked that "Why you are shaven-headed?" Was there any question like that?

Hari-śauri: Actually, when he first went to court, they were wondering why he had hair.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: When Ādi-keśava went to court the first time...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...he had suit and hair, and they wondered why he was dressed like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then cheater.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's called Preaching is the Essence. "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." It says, "Compiled by Rāmeśvara dāsa Swami and Śubhānanda dāsa Brahmacārī." It says, "A note of explanation. Every word of the text of this book is taken directly from the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder-ācārya of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. The text appearing in boldface type is Śrīla Prabhupāda's translations of verses from the Vedic literatures. The text in regular roman type consists of excerpts from His Divine Grace's summary studies and purports. Contents in brief: 1) The mission of the Lord—to give all living entities the benediction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. 2) It is the duty of the devotee to preach." Each one of these subjects, then they give verses or purports.

Brahmānanda: All about preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, a devotee can use this book to learn these verses which substantiate the following points. These are the points. "3) Preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest welfare activity. 4) Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be distributed to everyone without restriction."

Prabhupāda: How many copies?