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Rich man (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"rich man" |"rich men" |"richer man" |"richest man" |"richest men"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Hari-śauri: Why bother with something that is available even to the hogs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, even if you achieve such thing, achievement, so where is the guarantee that you'll..., it will stay? The so-called achievements for sense gratification, that means body. The body is always troublesome. That day I was asking, "Did you taste the Birla's eggplant?" You said, "No, I could not take it," due to the body. So even things are there, the body will not allow you. There are many rich men, they have got money, but they cannot eat anything.

Hari-śauri: That John Paul Getty is the richest man in the world, and they asked him, "What would be your wish if you could have anything?" He said, "I just want to be healthy. I've got so much money but I'm not healthy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many. There was a big, rich man in Calcutta, Raja Jyotindramana Ṭhākura. So just like you give me so many things, he was king, he was getting more supply, but he had no appetite. So one day he was given so many things—because it was routine. So one coolie was going on the street, taking a fish and chanting very pleasingly. So he said that "Instead of becoming Raja Jyotindramana Ṭhākura, if I could have been a coolie like that, at least I could enjoy by eating. And what is this? I have got everything but I cannot eat." He regretted, "I would have become a coolie like that instead of becoming a Ṭhākura."

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land," so they will move.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is less than demonic. Demonic qualities, they have some activity and laziness is ignorance, darkness. Therefore too much sleeping is very, very bad. That is another part of laziness. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, one has to conquer over this sleeping and laziness. Eating, nidrā, ahāra, vihāra, sense gratification, vihāra means sense gratification. One has to minimize these things up to the point of nil, that is perfect. When there is no more sleeping, no more eating, no more mating, and no more fearing, that is perfection of spiritual life. And that is not possible, but as much as possible. (break) ...they cannot sleep more that the culture (?) is very great gain, profit.

Hṛdayānanda: Consider a rich man. A rich man can sleep, a poor man must work.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hṛdayānanda: They're always making agitation to reduce what they call the work week. Formerly they were working so many hours per week, now they want to reduce it down to forty, thirty, twenty hours per week.

Prabhupāda: So why they're inventing machine? Machine means no work.

Hṛdayānanda: They think this is progress, everyone can lie down and the machines will work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, machine, inventing machine means one machine can work for fifty men. The banks are using this, what is that, computer?

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: A rich man no matter what his morals or character...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares.

Hari-śauri: ...he becomes very attractive.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good quality. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These are the... From the Vedic angle of vision, the Western people are the most uncivilized. Only money is covering them. When they introduced that mini-skirt for the girl, how much abominable it was considered in India. But they very publicly introduced.

Hari-śauri: Now even in India, slowly...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll imitate.

Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was, when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he, he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister.

Dayānanda: We were talking yesterday how nice this story of Prahlāda Mahārāja is, because no matter how great a demon becomes, still, he cannot vanquish the devotees, even if the devotee is a very insignificant little boy, only five years old. These demons seem so...

Hari-śauri: Powerful.

Dayānanda: ...horrible. The society is so degraded. (break)

Hari-śauri: 6:20.

Prabhupāda: Eh? The idea of reincarnation. That is horrible for them.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Then you are independent of mind always.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So even a person merged in the mode of ignorance can by some good fortune surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No good fortune. God, Kṛṣṇa, says, "You do it"; you do it. Here immediately you become fortunate. There is no question of waiting for becoming fortunate. You become fortunate immediately. Suppose if I say, "Take this bag, 100,000 dollars." You can take it. Immediately you become rich man. Why don't you take it?

Guru dāsa: How does kṛpā-siddhi work, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guru dāsa: Kṛpā-siddhi. How does that work?

Prabhupāda: Kṛpā-siddhi means that you are not willing take this bag. I say, "Take it, take it, take it." (laughter) "No." That is kṛpā-siddhi. Even you are unwilling, I give you in your pocket, push it. That is kṛpā-siddhi. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not wait for that.

Yadubara: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Individual's freedom, when he is ignorant, it is not really freedom because it's completely under the control...

Prabhupāda: And when he gets the money, and he spends it, and he sees, "My poverty is gone," then he becomes thankful. "Oh, it is so merciful that he has given me this thing."

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (3): No. Because the number of starving men here is much larger.

Prabhupāda: You are starving on account of your economic condition being bad or.... I cannot say anything. But they are also starving. You are poor by force, and they sometimes accept poverty voluntarily, just like the hippies. They have enough money. They are coming from very rich father and grandfather, but they lie down on the street, and the police comes and kick them, "Hey, get up! Get up!" Why? Why they have accepted this? So this kind of varieties we find everywhere-rich man, middle class man, and poverty-stricken man. Don't think that it is in India. I am traveling all over the world.

Reporter (1): Swamiji, what do you suggest to your disciples to arouse what you call Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the purificatory process. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.... God is so kind. In this age.... It is meant for every age. Especially this age when we are so much fallen and so much suffering, and neither we are able to act very piously, therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if you chant, you gradually become purified. Then you come to your own consciousness.

Reporter (1): So how would you define sin? What is impurities or to sin?

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand impurities?

Reporter (1): I mean, give any clear-cut definition.

Prabhupāda: Just like when you are diseased and the doctor gives you some vaccine and injection to cure you, to make you purified. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That Vijaya Datta(?) is interested for gurukula.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why not construct a big building for gurukula here? The students will be trained up to come here and sporting, having nice bath and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and build up their character. And in Bombay you will get many children, because there are so many rich men. They are not so much concerned to make their children technologist. If they get good education and character, they will give. Technologists they can purchase. Birla, they are not going to be technologist. They purchase technologist. I have seen in many respectable Marwari house. They don't send their children to school. They don't send.

Dr. Patel: After matriculation they go to the office.

Prabhupāda: No matriculation. They engage good paṇḍitas, good teachers, and teach them at home, and, as soon as they are able to read and write and see accounts, immediately engage in the business. They know that "We can purchase technologist. Why shall I waste time for so-called education, Ph.D., D.A.C.?" You have seen that Ph.D. in our Vṛndāvana? Useless. So many Ph.D.'s are useless. Cannot earn their livelihood. I have seen. So what is the use? Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Because one has become.... I have seen one Ph.D. chemist in Allahabad. He could not get any job. Then he was manufacturing soap at home and taking it in cycle and going to the market just like ordinary coolie. These so-called educationists, unless they get a good job, they are useless street dog. Useless. They cannot earn even livelihood. Therefore śāstra says, "Don't try for these things, to increase your economic position. This is already destined. You cannot increase or decrease. Whatever you are destined, you must get it. Try to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Abhirāma: I have seen in Miami Beach that one man was found dead in his apartment, and he was living poverty-stricken. His whole place was full of rats and cockroaches. When they investigated his file they found that he had eight million dollars in the bank and in stocks. But all of his friends said he couldn't spend one penny his whole life, because he was too cheap. So even though he was a rich man, actually he was a poor man.

Dr. Patel: But, sir, there are some beggars here in Bombay who have got one and two lakh rupees. You have read the railway(?) story about couple of beggars. They rounded up, and they had money.

Prabhupāda: No, I am also a beggar. I am also beggar.

Dr. Patel: That is not.... You are a rich beggar.

Prabhupāda: Millions of dollars.

Dr. Patel: Sannyāsīs don't touch money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I don't touch money. They pass check. (laughter) I simply sign check. All these accounts in Bombay, they are being managed by them. I do not touch even. Lakhs and lakhs of rupees they are spending.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: Yogi Bhajan.

Prabhupāda: So many. This tail, dog's tail. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha or anything, the tail is this side. You may grease it as much as possible, but the whole tendency is sex, that's all, in different dresses only. The objective is sex. This is going on. Some of them are openly declaring that "I am for sex," and some of them showbottle. But the objective is sex. This is the whole world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha (SB 7.9.45). And the sannyāsīs like Rajneesh, they are advocating, "This is life—sex. By sex indulgence you get salvation." These Brahma-kumārīs. Not brahmacārī but Brahma-kumārī. Kumārīs are available very easily. And they keep. And the rich men, they are supplied with nice, beautiful kumārīs. They pay money. This is going on. Brahma-kumārī. They enjoy and they invite the karmīs to enjoy and get money. Kumārī is there; money is there, that's all. Everywhere this is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: One of the reasons why they did not want John Lennon to be allowed to stay in the United States is because they said that he had too much influence with the young people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he spoiled these. They are already spoiled, and (static) that the government has done nice thing. What is his value? But because he has got money (static) popularity, he has become big man.

Rāmeśvara: So there is this theory that there is a conspiracy all over the world that the rich men to control.

Prabhupāda: That is, we say. If you have got money, you can make conspiracy or anything, whatever you like. Conspiracy I cannot make, I have no money, I cannot make conspiracy. But if I have got money, I can develop a conspiracy with my money. That one man asked, "Have you got any intelligence?" The man began to.... "Let me see." "What is that?" "I am seeing my pocket." "Why pocket?" "Intelligence means pocket." If there is money in my pocket, then there is intelligence. Otherwise, there is no intelligence. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita also said, daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśir nāśī. A man may be very, very big, qualified man, but if he's poor, everything's finished. Daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśir nāśī.

Rāmeśvara: So when they come to our temples and they see that the temple is very opulent, then they think we are intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And in the end, nothing.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Devotee: So by his dreaming he, he...

Prabhupāda: Yes, first of all be rich man, then do all things, how you shall kick your wife. This is going on. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "My Guru Mahārāja found Me rascal number one; therefore he ordered, 'You cannot study Vedānta. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " They will not read this portion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He posed Himself as a rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they prefer to read about all the ecstatic symptoms on Caitanya Mahāprabhu's body

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That.... Be, first of all bona fide. That is good ambition. But how this good ambition can fulfill when you are a potter, poor man? Actually be rich, and then kick your wife. And without being rich, if you think all this nonsense, you're spoiling time.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You call it any love, the real idea is how to unite man and woman, that's all. That is the idea. Real, basic principle is how to unite a man and woman. It goes on as friend or husband and wife or this or that. The real purpose is they want to unite. And that unity is for sex. And then both of them become entangled. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is moha, illusion. What is that explanation?

Hṛdayānanda: Purport: "How money can be dearer than life is indicated in this verse. Thieves may enter the house of a rich man to steal money at the risk of their lives. Because of trespassing they may be killed by guns or attacked by watchdogs, but still they try to commit burglary. Why do they risk their lives? Only to get some money. Similarly, a professional soldier is recruited into the army, and he accepts such service, with the risk of dying on the battlefield, only for the sake of money. In the same way, merchants go from one country to another on boats at the risk of their lives, or they dive into the water...

Prabhupāda: In 1942 I have seen when war was going on, so, these Britishers wanted soldiers, so they created artificial famine. The people became in need of money, so they enrolled them as soldiers. I have seen it. There was no other way to get money to get commodities at higher price. Artificial famine. There was no food grains available, but black market it is available. Black market means more price, but they had no money. So to get this money, they enrolled as soldiers. This was Mr. Churchill's policy.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: And you were saying, Prabhupāda, that even when they have so much money they want more. This man is one of the richest men in the world, and for his own family member he would not pay some money to save him.

Prabhupāda: Who was that man?

Hari-śauri: Getty. He just died.

Hṛdayānanda: Just a few days ago he died.

Rādhāvallabha: In England. One of the richest men in the world.

Hṛdayānanda: Two of the richest Americans have just died.

Rādhāvallabha: Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was considered the richest man in the country, and they found him dying in a hotel room of malnutrition.

Hṛdayānanda: He had become so afraid of death that he would wear a mask over his face to avoid germs, and he would be changing his clothes constantly, and he was living terrified of dying and losing his money. So in this way, in his last several years he became mad, just with the fear that he was going to die. (break)

Prabhupāda: What is your next publication?

Hṛdayānanda: Mine?

Prabhupāda: Portuguese and Spanish?

Hṛdayānanda: In a few days we will be sending to the printer a complete Portuguese Bhagavad-gītā and Spanish Kṛṣṇa book. I think within one week perhaps we will, in one or two weeks, we will send both to the printer.

Prabhupāda: Where is the editorial department?

Hṛdayānanda: Here. That's why I'm here. For Spanish and also Portuguese. I just received information that in Caracas they were selling every day one thousand Bhāgavatams.

Devotees: Wow!

Prabhupāda: What is the price?

Hṛdayānanda: Each book about two and a half dollars.

Prabhupāda: That means about three thousand dollars daily?

Rādhāvallabha: That's very big.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: In India?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: They even tax you when you die.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Hari-śauri: In England when someone dies, a rich man, he loses practically half his property and money and everything...

Rāmeśvara: Fifty percent.

Hari-śauri: ...just in what they call death duties. When you die, they take all your money away from you.

Rāmeśvara: That's in America also. If your father dies and he leaves you his wealth, the government will take half of it. You have written in the Fourth Canto that because the government is so expert in taxing, the people are becoming so expert in cheating the government...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...to avoid the taxes. So the government is simply training the people how to cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And then you wrote that one day the people will..., the taxes will become so great that the people will revolt, refuse to pay, and then the government will be finished. There will be chaos. You're giving all these warnings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've also warned them about taking the oil from the earth.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Father Kern's concern is always for the poor, for the downtrodden, for those who suffer, for those who are deprived.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is imagination. That is never will be fulfilled. That is simply imagination. As I told you, that, what you can do? There are so many poor men. We can estimate like this: the rich men and the middle class men and the poor class men. These three orders are there everywhere.

Scheverman: So you see that as in nature, as coming from the Lord God Himself, these three levels.

Prabhupāda: Now, when I did not come to your country, I thought that in America, everyone is rich.

Scheverman: (laughs) Most everyone in another country thinks everyone in America is rich, yes. There's only one class here.

Prabhupāda: But when I came here I saw so many bums—are called bums? (laughter) They are lying on the street.

Kern: But we think that...

Prabhupāda: First of all, let me finish. So why, America, they are lying on the street?

Kern: They're not. They're not.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Oh, you were in the car?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They all fell asleep. I was chanting. You were sitting, you didn't even go to sleep that night (laughs). Even though it was late at night, it was about eleven, twelve, one o'clock at night, you didn't want to stay at that bhogī yogi house. I remember that. And he drove very, very fast back to Portland. That was a very nice engagement.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That was Śyāmasundara's father's car. So he's a good driver, (laughter) but very dangerous driver. I do not know, Śyāmasundara, his father is a rich man, lawyer, got good estate and he's the only son. He did not like to stay with father.

Hari-śauri: No one in the West likes to stay with their parents.

Prabhupāda: Two sisters, very beautiful girls. They're unhappy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're unhappy?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His two sisters.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I heard he was preaching to them. At least one of them that came to the temple that time. She came to that program.

Prabhupāda: She first of all came in London.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now discuss any points.

Kulādri: One of the richest men in the United States, Howard Hughes, he just recently died, and he had sores all over his body. With all of his money, he died in a very miserable condition. He had so many millions and millions of dollars.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He said at the time of death, "I think I've made a mistake."

Prabhupāda: What he was?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was one of the richest men in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He was owning all the..., like aircraft, they are making, the jet airplanes, and he was a movie star in his youth, and he had many beautiful women, fabulous wealth, he owned hotels all over the world, airplanes, airports, but...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At the end of his life he didn't even mix with women so much though. He became very despondent and depressed. He was like a hermit.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was afraid of germs.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He became like a hermit. He withdrew into himself. No one knew very much about him; he was very mysterious so far as his life with the public was concerned. But towards the end of his life he didn't live a very elaborate life of sense gratification at all. No one knew much about him at all.

Hari-śauri: This description is perfect, actually, because most of his fortunes they calculate he amassed by many illegal methods, like paying off police and fixing so many things up. With his money, he was always able to buy government officials and like this and get so many contracts to further the development of his aircraft companies and this and that.

Prabhupāda: He has manufactured airplanes?

Hari-śauri: Yes, he had something to do with airplanes. And also he had a lot of land in Las Vegas, this gambling city. So many... He was involved in many mysterious maneuvers. It's open in the newspapers, they said that he got most of his money from illegal methods.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...

Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection to sit down here. If you want to stop, we can stop, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

idam adya mayā labdham
imaṁ prāpsye manoratham
idam astīdam api me
bhaviṣyati punar dhanam
asau mayā hataḥ śatrur
haniṣye cāparān api
īśvaro 'ham ahaṁ bhogī
siddho 'haṁ balavān sukhī
āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi
ko 'nyo 'sti sadṛśo mayā
yakṣye dāsyāmi modiṣya
ity ajñāna-vimohitāḥ

"The demoniac person thinks: 'So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice.' In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance." These are timeless statements Śrīla Prabhupāda. Kṛṣṇa has spoken for all time by these words.

aneka-citta-vibhrāntā
moha-jāla-samāvṛtāḥ
prasaktāḥ kāma-bhogeṣu
patanti narake 'śucau

Prabhupāda: Our Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, the formula is therefore: as soon as you get money, fifty percent spent for printing and fifty percent for temple. This is the basic principle of our Bhaktivedanta (Book Trust)—no saving. As soon as you have got some money, print books, print books. Don't keep it. If you print books, some day somebody will read. But if we keep money, it creates disturbance. I am therefore always insisting, "Print books, Print books." Or construct temple, this building, that building. There is no need of keeping money.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear. Ordinarily destiny cannot be checked. Therefore instead of wasting your time for change your economic condition or material destiny, you employ this energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That cannot be checked. Your so-called... So many men we can see, they are working so hard, does it mean that everyone has become a Ford, a Rockefeller? Why? Everyone is trying his best. Mr. Ford was to become rich man, his destiny was there, he became rich man. But does it mean that other man who has worked so hard like Ford, he has become like a Ford? No. This is practical. You cannot change your destiny simply by working hard like ass (?) and dogs. No. But you can utilize your energy for improving your Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: It is very heavy cake.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very nice. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the movement of ānanda, pleasure only. Kṛṣṇa is ānandamaya, and if you remain with Kṛṣṇa you'll become ānandamaya. A rich man, he's enjoying, and if you remain in association with the rich man, you also enjoy. Where is the difficulty? A very rich man, and his associates, they are also rich men. Is it not? And if you remain with poor man, you are also poor.

Rūpānuga: You've explained that the servant in the house of the king, he is almost as good as the king.

Prabhupāda: No, he is better than king. King, he eats whatever is offered to him, but they can eat whatever they like. Is it not? Who is restricting them? (aside:) You can open that. Just stand towards there. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Is that, cutting the cake, is that a Vedic..., did they used to do that in Vedic times, or is that a Western invention? We were just wondering about it.

Prabhupāda: Prasāda distribution. Either you cut or take with hand, the same thing. It doesn't make any difference.

Rūpānuga: On the cake it was marked on one side 1966, on the other side 1976. Like a coin. They make coins celebrating, commemorating.

Prabhupāda: And the cake is made very nicely. Who has made it?

Vṛṣākapi: This one girl, her name is Lalitā-sakhī. She stayed up all night.

Rūpānuga: And then it was decorated by Ambujākṣa, who is an artist.

Prabhupāda: Woman should be expert in cooking. That is their natural tendency. They should be educated how to cook nicely, how to please the husband, how to take care of the children. This is Vedic civilization. In the beginning a woman, childhood, she's trained up by the mother. Then as soon as she is married, formerly, child-marriage, so she's transferred to the care of mother-in-law. There she is trained up. Then she becomes very good housewife, takes care of household affairs, husband, children, and home becomes happy. What is this nonsense, divorce? There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce. When this divorce system was introduced?

Rūpānuga: Comparatively recent. Because for many years the Catholic Church forbade it. When did it begin?

Pradyumna: Henry the Eighth, the King of England.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: I know that. Sometimes they are advised to do business. I know that. When, in our society, in the beginning, I started marriage, the father, mother, did not like it. Nowadays it has become custom, in India also, let the girl have many friends, but don't marry unless you find out a suitable man. Society degrades. Actually the Indian system is that when the girl is utmost twelve years, not more than that, ten to twelve years, she must be married. And the father would see, not necessarily in every case the boy is rich man or educated. If he's healthy and if he can work, he'll "Take charge." Then fortune, faith.

Rūpānuga: That is responsible.

Vṛṣākapi: How should we do this in our ISKCON society with these young girls?

Prabhupāda: Of course, we are not very much concerned with the social affairs, but still, if we can organize society, that will be very good. That will be peaceful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Might be possible on the farms.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: We are guru dāsa.

Prabhupāda: So you are taking care. I am very much obliged to you. I sometimes think in my childhood I was very, very pet son of my father. I have admitted that in that book I told. My father was not very rich man, but still, whatever I wanted, he would give me. He never chastised me, but full love. Then of course I got friends and I was married, so by Kṛṣṇa's grace everyone loved me. (laughs) And I came to this foreign country without any acquaintance. So Kṛṣṇa has sent so many fathers to love me. In that way I am fortunate. At the last stage if I live very peacefully, that is a great mercy of Kṛṣṇa. By Kṛṣṇa's mercy everything is possible. So we shall stick to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet and everything is possible. What is that book? After Kṛṣṇa book? No, after Kṛṣṇa book, that yellow...?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Teachings of Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: So distribute this prasādam. So Eighth Canto is also?

Rāmeśvara: It is going out to the printer in the month of July, this month, by the end of the month.

Prabhupāda: Oh, first part.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You rascal, he's another rascal. And one who believes in it, he's also a rascal.

Hari-śauri: I was reading the other day that at one university they started a course where they take the students through a course of death. They study death and then they try to get them to...

Prabhupāda: If it was possible to keep them by medicine, then no rich men would have died. You have got sufficient means to pay for medicine, and he would have kept his relatives, son alive. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said. It is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: They are very hopeful that modern medicine can keep them...

Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.

Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called..., what is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. (laughter) So he's going, he's... (laughter). This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: He is so rich(?) man. He cannot get nice food even, the primary necessity. Getting jaundice.

Jayatīrtha: The main reason why he doesn't.... I think he got jaundice because, he admitted, is that he had Ravi Shankar's brother cooking for him.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: He had Kumar Shankar, the brother of Ravi Shankar, cooking for him. So this man is a demon; therefore he is becoming sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are all drunkards, all third-class men, fourth-class men, low-class men. In India, this naṭas, they are third class, fourth class. Naṭas means the artist class, singer, dancers. They are meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. It was never taken by the.... They are called, and they will expertly sing, dance, in some festival. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they were not doing. Still in India there is a class, very expert in dancing, singing, low class. Their hereditary business is like that.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: In, actually, in Bengal, Bengal has lost its original culture. In other provinces the brāhmaṇa class, they are keeping very strictly the original culture. Even a brāhmaṇa would not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife, because woman is considered śūdra. The woman, when she becomes the wife of a brāhmaṇa, then she is called brāhmaṇī, but she's not offered brahminical culture. She remains as śūdra. So therefore a strict brāhmaṇa does not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife. Still there are in U.P. The wife will arrange for cooking, and he'll sit down and cook dāl, cāpāṭis. Then he will eat, and whatever remains, that is there, that will be taken by her. But he will not take foodstuff cooked by his even wife. And if there are several brāhmaṇas, so each one of them will cook his own food. In Calcutta, mostly the rich men they used to keep the collector's darwans, they are called darwans. Means guard, policemen, guard. They're all, very big, big brāhmaṇa family, they used to take, accept the job. But each of them, even in police, I have seen, they are cooking separately. They take bath thrice, cook their own food, very strictly. The government had to give them a big hall for cooking. So, it will not take much space, say, little space. One small oven and demarcated: "This, you see, is mine, and then I, you get, this is yours, this is yours." So within that space they'll sit down and cook dāl, cāpāṭis, rice, one vegetable, and cook, and immediately all the utensils will be cleansed and washed, and the space washed and kept. You'd like to eat, they cook so nicely, although simple. And I have got practical experience, if you cook your own food, whatever it may be, it is healthy.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So we can take it. Yes. This is nice idea. He has spent millions of dollars?

Harikeśa: One million on the temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh? How he got the money?

Harikeśa: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Maybe he was rich man.

Hari-śauri: This was made in Penang.

Prabhupāda: Penang also I visited. I stayed with one Indian gentleman. His wife made very nice kacuri.

Hari-śauri: It doesn't matter wherever you go around the world...

Prabhupāda: They asked, "What you want to eat?" "If you can, you make first-class kacuri." That is from my childhood. My friends also did it. They'd make the first-class kacuris in my youthhood. I am fond of kacuri. Kacuri is made first class in Mathurā. Agra and Mathurā. Very, very nice. The kacuri is being made, hundreds of customers waiting. At shops, there was many shops, waiting for purchasing. And as soon as it comes out of the pan, immediately sold. There is no question of waiting. They make spice nicest. That is India's craftsmanship. Nobody will starve. If you have no business, you prepare something palatable, and people will purchase, all over India.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: He was prime minister for about ten days.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for a few days. He was a very prominent member in the cabinet, and now see. So planning, you make so many plans, but it requires sanction. That planning is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. In this way, there is a verse, that we are planning, that every parent is planning how his child will be grown nice, educated, but it becomes different. Every father, mother plan that "My child should be like this." But he is becoming hippie. When there is somebody diseased, rich man, he is planning to save him, best physician, best medicine supplied, but he's dying. So what is the value of your planning? Your planning is... That's all right. That's your duty. But it requires the sanction of some higher authority. Otherwise useless. That is your position. You may make plan, but unless it is sanctioned by the higher authority, then it is useless. That is practically going on.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This morning both of these boys would like to be initiated if you would give them your mercy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so let them...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: After the guru-pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, just opposite. That is His building. Very good income. Besides that, He has many other lands. They have got very good income.

Hari-śauri: They're very well looked after.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're one of the oldest aristocratic families of Calcutta, Mulliks. The whole, from Howrah Bridge up to that street, all belongs to their property. Very rich men.

Hari-śauri: Now they don't own so much.

Prabhupāda: No, the Deity has got income. So they have got terms for worshiping the Deity. So one who gets the term for worshiping, he takes the income.

Hari-śauri: Oh, in the family members.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but practically that is now their income. The more one gets the worshiping term longer, he gets more income. (laughs) The Deity has got very, very good income. All the temples in India... Just like I am trying to make some fund for Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur. Even no contribution comes, it will go on. The sevā-pūjā will not stop for want of money. So there will be no want of money. Still, I must make some provision, by the income the sevā-pūjā will go on. Contribution may come or not. That provision should be made. Now in Vṛndāvana Akṣayānanda is collecting in so many ways. Suppose nobody collects. That does not mean this temple will be closed. It must go on. So I am trying to make some provision from that bank interest. At least five to ten thousand rupees so that the Deity worship will not be stopped. That is the system in all Indian temples. It must go on, nitya-sevā. It must go on. These big, big temple in Vṛndāvana, they have got such arrangement. Otherwise how it is going on for five hundred, six hundred years? They have very good income. Govindajī has got eighteen thousand rupees monthly income. That is... He's the richest Deity in Vṛndāvana. And Raṅganātha is tenant of Govindajī. Land is taken from Govindajī, and Raṅganātha's temple is constructed. The Raṅganātha's temple management pays the rent. So Govindajī is the landlord and Raṅganāthajī is tenant. Raṅganāthajī is Rāmānuja-sampradāya, Govindajī is Gauḍīya-sampradāya. (laughter) So Rāmānuja-sampradāya is the tenant of Gauḍīya-sampradāya. (break) No, as many as we want. Why? (end)

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Doctor: (laughter) By any way.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is modern civilization. Big man, big rich man means bring money some way or other. This is big man. This is Kali-yuga. Because if you have got money, you have got respect, you have got honor, you are recognized. So therefore they are after money. Bring money, that's all right. When I shall get money, I may have done black money, force money, this money, nobody will remember it. Bas. This is modern civilization. Bring money and enjoy sense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What for it is, struggle so much working hard? Yad indriya-prītaya. Only for the satisfaction of the senses. They have no other ambition. Because most of them, they do not believe there is next life. Most of them, 99.9 percent, they do not believe. Big, big professor, I have talked with so many big, big men in Europe. They have no... Our leaders also. The Munshi, he did not believe in the next life.

Indian Doctor: There is research in parapsychology in certain municipality(?) of India, they have proved that (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That they may do, a very great service, but we know it without going to the psychological process. We believe Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), bas, finished. What is the use of going to the psychology and...?

Indian Doctor: But those...

Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are fools, they may waste their time in that way. (laughter) But we are not so fool.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Host: Others will follow. So I must thank you for coming. I request you, if you have little time, you could sit there and listen to Swamiji, other people also are coming, and have little prasādam and go, see, after having come to my humble house, see my pūjā room also, how humbly I keep that pūjā room, so that we learn, we must learn to keep up our religion. When we become educated, when we become ministers, ambassadors, we forget our.... When we become big people, very big people, our eyes jump up and go to the head here. When we become rich people and money people—who is speaking to you? Not a rich man. A man who comes from a humble family. The man who was born in a tiled-roofed house. So I have never changed. My, among my friends, you have seen a friends sitting here, and also the village which I come from, he has seen where I staying and where I am staying now. But I am not changed. But at the same time I have not forgotten my religion. I have not changed my faith. Many people say you must know that I drink. Am I a drunkard? Am I a trouble-maker? No. Sometimes in the society it becomes a necessity. I am not a sādhu, I am not a sannyāsī, I have not renounced the world. Many of you have drunk with me. Some of you at least. So what? Am I a sinner, if I remember my religion, if I pray my God, if I pray my Lord? No. I do not dupe anybody, do not cheat anybody, do not harm anybody, do not hurt anybody. That's what I have been following. That is why I think my God has been very very kind to me. That is why, because of Lord Kṛṣṇa, all of you have been very kind to me throughout... Can you imagine a poor man born in a poor family winning four elections without money? People spend lakhs. Lord knows in 1952 how much money have I spent? Two thousand rupees. '58, '57 maybe twelve thousand rupees. '62 maybe about forty to forty-five thousand. Of course, '67 was expensive for me. I had to sell away my humble house. So this is all faith. Faith in God, faith in country, that is patriotism. Without patriotism we talk and yap a lot. "What do you think of this? What do you think of this?" My country is my country, no other country. This is my country. That is deśa-bhakti. All people say that, you know, "My religion is my religion, that is my bhakti. But my country comes first." That is known as patriotism. In Urdu it is said, (indistinct) "We will die for the nation one day." If you remember, my friends, I was one of those in 1962 offered to join as a soldier against Chinese aggression. Not only offered, I have submitted my resignation to Jawaharlal Nehru, which was not accepted because of certain problems at that time. Because of my age, because of my age, and also the Bilateral Talks, Colombo Proposals came. Never mind. That should be the spirit among us, and particularly youngsters, particularly youngsters. They must not forget their religion, they must not forget their country. So anyway, leaders come and go, we all come and go. I am not a leader, please don't put me as a leader. I am one of the humblest workers in this country. I am coming from the humblest section of the society also. The leaders come. (Hindi) If you want to translate you translate, (Hindi). But the country remains (Hindi). (end)

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Where does he live?

Gargamuni: He's lives in Bara Bazaar. His name is Mr. Buwalka.

Prabhupāda: Bara Bazara Marwaris are all businessmen.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This combination of rich men, poor men, for Kṛṣṇa. The same—andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Both of them are useless separately, and when they combine in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all useful. It is very good example. And there is another example, that a piece of wire is falling, rotting, and a piece of bamboo, rotting, and a piece of squash skin is rotting. And one gentleman collected. He nicely trimmed the piece and dried the squash, the outer portion, and took the bamboo and nicely cut it and joined the string and this became a sitar: "Ting, ting, ting." So it is the intelligent person who joins all these things and makes it very useful. These are the examples. The bamboo alone is useless, and a small piece of wire, useless, and a thrown out squash skin, useless. But if you can join them together,...you can "Ting, ting." Similarly andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Here is a lame man; here is a blind man. All right, combine together and use them. That is wanted. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhi labhate. This wire does not change. It is wire. But when it is combined, it is useful. So our propaganda is, "They are separately planning useless. Let them combine together in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All this planning shall be successful.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Better they take separate.

Prabhupāda: So Indians did not like that Mohammedans may go away. Rather, when Shri Raj Birla (?) was arrested by flight, the Bengali zamindars, they protested. Rani Bhavani, she protested. Although it is alleged that Shri Raj Birla (?) kidnapped her daughter. But if Shri Raj Birla kidnapped her daughter, how he (she) supported Shri Raj Birla? There are so many falsehoods. On the whole, the Indians never planned to drive away the Mohammedans. They never. That's a fact. They were happy because there was no exploitation. All these Mohammedans, they made their home in India, so whatever lavishly they were spending, that was coming to the Indians. In Taliganj (?) there is a man. Now they are aristocratic family. He was servant of the nawab, and he stolen one shoes, one feet, which was bedecked with jewels. So by selling that jewel he became a rich man. So although they were using jewelled shoe, but it was in India. They were satisfied that "I am nawab. I am using jeweled shoes." But the jewelled shoes was in India and these Englishmen, they have taken away all the jewels even from the walls and keeping them in their homes, all gold, jewels, everything.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...if we give them guarantee that we will develop it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do. You guarantee that. Decision is made. So you can take.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And from what I've heard, this Malhotra is a very—Girirāja told me—very, very nice man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is not going to... He's a very, very rich man himself, so he's not really trying to cheat us or anything.

Prabhupāda: That decision is made. It is a very well known place, Mahabaleswar.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Mahabaleswar.

Saurabha: Just on the other side of the plateau you have that RMA, ARA?

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo?

Saurabha: No.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Mahabaleswar is also the summer capital of Mahara... All the government ministers have been meeting there. And this Bhogilal Patel's son, he was saying that he knows all the big people there. Sītā, Rāma, (indistinct) he's the chairman of the local municipality...

Prabhupāda: So we must have a big temple there.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You dedicated the Kṛṣṇa book to him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he was a pure Vaiṣṇava. And he wanted me to become like this. He was praying Rādhārāṇī. He was praying to Rādhārāṇī. And any saintly person would come, he would simply say, "Give blessings to my son that he may become a Rādhārāṇī's servant." That was my father's prayer. He never prayed that "My son may become very rich man." He never prayed like that. Actually, his ardent desire that his son may become a Vaiṣṇava. And my Guru Mahārāja's training has put me this position. That I have admitted. Later on. What is that word I have given? Hmm? Find out.

Gargamuni: "The eternal father?"

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Which was later on solidified..."

Prabhupāda: Ahh!

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "...by my eternal father."

Prabhupāda: "The ideas given by my father were solidified by..."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what you said.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Just see if he's coming actually. Otherwise...

Pradyumna: But as soon as we are ready you will come down?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Maṇihāra: Now England is finished. Everybody is completely unhappy. Nobody is happy in England. The rich men, once they were happy, now they are having their money taken away by the government. They are taxing, taxing, taxing, all the time. And the poor people, they have nothing anyway. Nobody has anything to talk about. Nothing to be proud of in England. Everybody is leaving. Every day in the newspaper you read such-and-such has happened.

Prabhupāda: You are Englishman?

Maṇihāra: Yes.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: It's a sinful reaction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They expanded their empire. Where is that empire now? The expansion of empire began during Victoria's time. Victoria's time.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, you are... They are mistaken. But if you have to awaken Kṛṣṇa bhakti, why you go to the lepers?

Minister: No, they have come here. They are all there in the temple. They are not allowing others to pray properly. They are all, one thousand... In the past...

Prabhupāda: We have no objection, because our principle is kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. So Kṛṣṇa bhakti is there in everyone. So leper and non-leper. Just like our Vivekananda, he took up daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is an absurd proposition. Nārāyaṇa is never daridra. But if you put this argument, that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, so if Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why you take up only daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa also? If you have got so broad vision that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, therefore we see everyone, so why you particularly take the daridra-nārāyaṇa? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa bhakti is everywhere. It is in the leper or non-leper. So why should we take particularly the lepers? So that is outwardly a social service that they are taking care of the leper. So if that vision it will not be right. Kṛṣṇa bhakti even requires, even a karmī like big, big owner of factories, he's more diseased than the leper. Because he has no Kṛṣṇa bhakti. So we have to take care of the leper and the richest man also if he has no Kṛṣṇa bhakti.

Minister: That also. That also.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore we should not make any distinction that only the lepers will be taken care of.

Minister: (Hindi) a rich man or somebody comes, prays...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is more than leper.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Where is that Oriya book?

Harikeśa: The one Gargamuni...

Vāsughoṣa: Yes. Orissan language, Orissan language.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Do you think that realization is good? If anyone realizes that he is God? Do you think he has actually realized anything?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is the proof? Everyone can say, "I am God," but where is the proof? He must act like God. If somebody says, "I am the richest man," simply this statement will do, or we must see how he is rich? (pause) Hm. Give him.

Indian man: (indistinct) Founder Śrī Śrīmad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Hm, (indistinct).

Indian man: (indistinct) ...founder Śrī Śrīmad... (end)

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: Spoiled. Spoiled brat.

Prabhupāda: Because he gets money. One who has got money but no children, he takes some adopted son. So the adopted son thinks that "I have got so much money," and he has never worked. He is spoiled. I have seen many adopted son, our... Got lakhs and lakhs of rupees, and in one night he's spoiled everything. Simply after woman and wine. I have seen it. There was one gentleman, Narendranath Singh. Very big, palatial building and very rich man. And I have seen him when he was finished. He was friend of big, big person, Raja Maharlel (?). And one day I saw in Calcutta, there was raining and he was sitting in a rickshaw. And no friend. He had known practically all big men of Calcutta friend. Nobody is coming. "Well Narendra, you are sitting. Come on in my car." Nobody. I was (indistinct). And he was drenching, there was heavy rain. And sitting a... And he was keeping Rolls Royce car.

Akṣayānanda: Keeping?

Prabhupāda: Rolls Royce. When he was rich man.

Akṣayānanda: Sometimes while traveling I've met some very old rich men lying on their deathbed dying. I approached them to help us. They will not give a single penny. It is all going to the son, and the son is atheist. In the house there is everywhere Kṛṣṇa's picture. Very difficult. They don't know that Kṛṣṇa is giving them a chance. They die, within days some of them can die. They are lying on the bed, passing stool and urine. So rich. But they do not care to help this movement. So many people like that. We have to become very expert. (end)

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So you note down, you are simply hearing. Note down and inform them. Yes. Ah, it is being recorded, that's alright. So give them this direction. Combine the Indian community. In Toronto and in..., there are many thousands of Indians, New York, Canada, London. These are very important places.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that this Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion, any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. A little more than that. But this Kṛṣṇa cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years. Beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough (indistinct), and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there. You have to fight, organize (indistinct).

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tenth Canto.

Indian man (3): The person does not want to solve the questions. They want only to get riches. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, they don't want simple thing.

Indian man (2): And what is the use of becoming rich man? It is all fruitless.

Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the root of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So He is the root. So you pour water in the root. Just like we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean that we are not taking care of the human being? That is automatically coming. But those who are taking care of the human society only, social work, political work, they do not know even what Kṛṣṇa. Missing. That is the difference. Because we are taking of Kṛṣṇa, we have come to the human society. We are teaching them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual knowledge. That is automatically. We are feeding them, giving them prasādam. That is included. But those who are opening hospitals for human being, they are taking the poor animals to the slaughterhouse, maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. That means foolishness. Kṛṣṇa will not be happy that one son you take care by opening hospital and another son you go, you send him to the slaughterhouse. This is foolishness. Never. God will never be happy. The same example. If the father has got both children—you take care one of them and others you kill them—will the father be happy? So that is not the way of making the supreme father, God, happy. That is not the way. That is foolish way. Rather, displeasing the father. That is not a very good philosophy. Why you should make distinction? He claims,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "Every living entity is My part and parcel. Every living entity is begotten by Me. I am the father." So how you can make discrimination from one son to another? That is foolishness. You cannot expect by pleasing one son the father will be happy. But if you bring something to the father and pay him, or some food, "Sir, it is for your sons," then he'll be pleased. He'll distribute the foodstuff to his sons. But if you take care one of the sons and don't take care of the other son, the father will never please. Very... That is not the way of pleasing the father. That is foolishness. You may say that "I am taking care of the best son," but to a father, either the best son or the lowest son, the same. Father does not make any..., "Because this is best son, he should be satisfied and the worst sons should be neglect." Father does not make. Father will like better that "You take care of my worst son first." And besides that, to take care of the human society, it is also bogus. Nobody can take care. There are so many problems in the human society how you can take care? But the real problem is—that is for everyone—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Either he is animal or human being or demigod or big man or small man or rich man or poor man, a learned man, foolish man, these problems are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So if you take care of these problems, how to save them, all of them, from these four problems, that is real service. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Otherwise temporary—"I am hungry. You give me some relief"—but that relief is temporary. I'll become again hungry. And if I come to you twice, thrice, you'll be disgusted. Neither you can. There are so many hungry men. But if with a view to solve his all problems of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, if you take care of him, that is the best service.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind. So he, trying to make the mind concentrated on the fact, he is yogi. And then the next stage is... If he is yogi, then there are different types of yoga system. But when he comes to the point that "I am not master. There is one master, controller. So master, whatever master orders, I have to execute that. That is my real happiness." Bhakta. So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. If I merge into the Supreme Brahman I will be happy." Yogi is thinking that "The Absolute is present everywhere in His personal feature. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So if I become one with Him, I will be happy." But still there is a demand, "If I become like this." So so long he is not self-realized, he will try to become something and so long he'll try to become something, then there will be restlessness. There cannot be happiness. And when he comes to the realization point that "Why I am trying to become something, I am this and this that is my position," then he becomes happy. That is bhakti. Everyone is trying to become something. And bhakta knows "I am this." There is no question of becoming. And this is my position. Very nice. Therefore Kṛṣṇa ultimately said that "This is the most confidential knowledge, Arjuna. I am teaching you so many things. There is no need of understanding so many things. The real thing is that I am the master, you are My servant. You surrender unto Me, that's all. Then you'll be happy."

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Very simple thing, that you are part and parcel of God. God is eternal. So if you understand God, then you become eternal. Just like your father is very rich man, but you have left your father. You are loitering in the street. But as soon as you understand your father, "Oh, I am the son of such and such person. He is so rich! Oh, I haven't got any necessity." Then you become rich. Go back home, back to Godhead. Mām eti. "He comes to Me." Someone is there. You must know your father, and you must go back to father. Then there is no question of suffering. Very simple thing. Now what is the purport?

Girirāja: Purport. "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is already liberated. When one understands Kṛṣṇa properly. Then.

Girirāja: "And therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body."

Prabhupāda: That return to God is eternal. Suppose I am your guest here, so you may provide me for some days, but I cannot expect that you can provide me for all the days. That is my mistake. But if you go to your father's house, there is no question of. He takes. That is the required. Go to your father. Mām eti. Therefore this is the way of eternity, that you understand who is your father and you go back to Him. Then his life is successful. And who is the father?

Indian man: (laughing) Not the body.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): If it is told by (indistinct) who accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become MS, CP, to become this and that, and they became here big men. So why you people come here to teach us? This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb śubha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and śubha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga (?) Raj family. So the head of that family, Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clyde was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clyde saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate, all right I'll make you a king." Britishers they were giving title, king. So he was given the title Raja. So the whole family is Saubhaga (?) Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk. Why people will not say saheb śubha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocratic... So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers. Except the Tagore family. They were from the Mohammedan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. Saheb śubha. If you meet one Englishman then your fortune is... I think Bombay was there also.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, Bengal... They maintained the culture. But therefore I say that Vivekananda broke that Bengali culture.

Dr. Patel: Bengali culture is fish-eating. Even brāhmaṇas eating.

Prabhupāda: No. They are eating fish only. Because Bengal is full of rivers. But not for all. Mass of people, that's a fact. But he introduced, "You can eat anything. It has nothing to do with religion." In Bengal in our childhood we have seen if anyone was habituated to take meat... Common man would not. Rich man. The rich men they have their sahis. Sahis you know, who takes care of the horse. So he would cook in the horse shed.

Dr. Patel: And eat there.

Prabhupāda: No. Then he'll bring the (indistinct) and eat it. It was never brought within the precincts of the house.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) Gujarat and Maharastra (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No, no... These people who were eating meat, they knew that "I am doing wrong." But Vivekananda approved, "No, it is not wrong. It is wrong. Whatever you like you can do." Then they began to eat meat. Fish they were already eating. Meat and chicken and eggs and everything.

Dr. Patel: All the sons of Vallabhācārya's followers are eating.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is eating. I know that. Therefore our first regulation is you must give it up. Then we talk of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: I know Mr. Bajoria in Calcutta, he told me that in the beginning the Indians would not purchase tea because they considered it was sinful, and the British had to make a big propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, tea sets(?) committee. All the tea gardeners, all, they were mostly Britishers. They paid money for maintaining a department, tea sets(?) committee, and their only business was to make propaganda village to village how tea becomes popular. Similarly, drinking, meat-eating... And it became a fashion among the richer class to keep prostitutes, go to the garden weekend with prostitutes and wine, freely use them, intoxicated. It was a prestigious position to keep a prostitute. A rich man having a garden and one prostitute, they were... Anything in demand... I have seen it. Now I think, "How things are going on, that...?" You have seen that Mullik's house?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Thakur Mullik, Rādhārāṇī. So in their festival some dancing girl would come, vaibi.(?) That was aristocratic, to call a prostitute and dance. So at that time we were children, five, six, seven years old. So persons who were of our father's age, they would sit down round the prostitute exactly like the street dogs surround one female dog, exactly. They had no shame even. This was aristocratic. And talking all nonsense, and if the prostitute smiles, they become very much obliged. She is (laughter) smiling. And amongst our mother's friends, they were talking, "My husband has kept that prostitute." And another lady... We were at that time boys, three, four years, but I remember all these things. Another lady, "My husband has kept that..."

Girirāja: They were proud.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: They were proud.

Prabhupāda: In our childhood I saw. To go weekend to the garden and... Generally they go with family, and others, they go with prostitute. With prostitute they have got freedom to handle. The higher... And not only that, during marriage ceremony, high circle marriage ceremony, they would participate in drinking, even men and women. Otherwise, in India, woman drinking or taking meat is a horrible crime. And what to speak of smoking? That is most shameless. That was aristocratic, drinking and eating meat... The Bengali, they were the richer section because others, they were foreigners. They came to Calcutta and earned money. And the Bengalis, they had their aristocratic families, zamindaries, everything in their occupation. So Bengalis were richer section in Calcutta, and..., four, five big, big families. And now they are finished on account of this aristocracy. So one gentleman, he was Harendranatha Singh, very rich man, one of the richest men of Calcutta. He lost all his estate simply by this extravagance. Every evening his house is full with guests every evening, for... What is called? That table?

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Billiard-playing or some exhibition of singing, and hundreds of men will gather. And they were feasting, first-class food. In this way spending, spending, spending... And then prostitute, aristocracy. In this way one property and one property lost, everything. At last I saw him going by rickshaw. One day it was raining, and I saw that he was sitting in a rickshaw, and no friend asked him that, "Haren Babu, why you are...? You come to my car," so many. And he was friendly to so many zamindars, kings, and very intimate with... But they lost of everything, and nobody cares. His sons, they are of our age. I do not know whether living or not. But most probably they are not living. They became professional singers, coming of such aristocratic father. His father, that Mr. R. N. Singh, was a very good singer. That also was another aristocratic that aristocrat family—art, some art: painter, singer, poets. Just like Rabindranath Tagore. They became famous as artist. Avanindranatha Thakur, he became famous as artist, and Rabindranath Tagore became... They also followed the aristocratic family, Calcutta. Similarly, this R. N. Singh became a singer. Because they are rich men, they have nothing to do, so... And nobody instructed them how to become saintly person. Simply debauchery and... (break) On the whole the whole human civilization is..., and all the directors, they are not giving chance to know the value of life and how to conduct life. It is the first time, that we are giving the real idea of life. Otherwise whole world is in darkness. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. They do not know what is the end of life. Adānta... Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vyāsadeva's real contribution... Ajānataḥ, lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). He has given the right direction. And they are not taking advantage of it. If they come to sense some day, they'll read all these books, and they will come to know how to live life. That is our contribution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The whole world plunged into darkness. They do not know what is life and what is the aim of life. That's a fact. Periodically, they manufacture some ideas, and people will follow, and then it is failure, and again another revolution. They are..., the Russian philosophy, that periodically revolution required. That is also to some extent. But why revolution? Take the standard. They do not know what is the standard.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what do you mean by "we"? We are not...

Dr. Patel: "We" means our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: Forefathers may be saintly person, but we are not. Why do you say "we"?

Dr. Patel: "We" means the descendants of our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: My father might have been very rich man, but I am a poverty-stricken man, loitering in the street. Why say "we"?

Dr. Patel: "We" means these Aryans in India, they brought all the Vedas and Vedic culture with them. They must have taken it in.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. One who is speaking, he is not in Vedic culture. That is the difficulty.

Dr. Patel: I talk of these historical facts, sir. Historically, Eastern European races are just our cousin. I mean the Indian races. But still, they have not been able to take the...

Prabhupāda: This, falsely to become proud: "We... We have done." What I am at the present? That is to be taken, not that... Now in Bengal... "Fourteen generations before my father took ghee, and I have got a smell." (laughs) What is that? Whether you are eating ghee or not, that is talk, not that "Fourteen generations before my father and forefathers ate ghee, and I have got the smell here." (laughs)

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes, he was not with Mota.

Prabhupāda: Hariramdas.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Whose daughter, she called.

Girirāja: Yes. So Mota says that he's a very rich man and that man who came, we should approach his older brother and he says that they can give a very big donation. And they can introduce us to other Punjabis.

Prabhupāda: Mm. So whatever you sanction, it will not be good.

Girirāja: Well, we had a confrontation that they want to break the condition that we have to hand over these ten feet. So I said that this is a separate issue and one thing had nothing to do with the other. So, actually they have accepted all of our arguments, what is boils down is that Mantrey is pressing them and they must, you know, why they are letting this slide by. So they say they want something to reply to him so we have to write a letter explaining our case. And...

Prabhupāda: Mantrey is an all-in-all.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Relation is there. Relation is there. Otherwise, how can I address him? Relation is there. So this form Hare, means Hara, is the potency of Hari. (break) Just like you are a gṛhastha. You have got your wife, you have got your maidservant. The maidservant is doing something, wife is doing something, but you have many potencies. The managing director is there, but he has got many assistants. Similarly, the Supreme Person has got multi-assistants, potencies. So they are all accepted as Hara, Hari's potencies. So we have to approach Hari through the potency: "O Hare. O the potency of the Lord. O Lord, be merciful." We cannot jump over the Lord without going through the potency. So those who are impersonalists, they cannot understand. But those who are intelligent, they can understand that God is person, He has got multi-potencies, and through the potencies He's working so nicely. This is Vedic injunction. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport).

na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate
na tat samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate
parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate
svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca

God has nothing to do personally. As we see a very big rich man, he hasn't got to do anything personally, but he has got so many assistants. They're doing everything. Similarly, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. But when the things are done, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā. The knowledge is so perfect and things are done so nicely that it is automatically being done. And the rascals who cannot see behind there is God, they simply see this nature: "The nature is working automatically." It is not the fact. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). There is adhyakṣana. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. Even the sun planet, such big illuminative, powerful, it is also rotating by the order of God. So similarly, we are addressing the potencies of the Lord.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Asnani: I'll distribute your papers to the Muhammadans in their language, Marwati.(?)

Prabhupāda: Let them chant, dance, and take prasāda, go away. That's all. No philosophy. Everyone will come. Chant, dance, and take prasādam. And we shall work hard for this maintaining the establishment. We are recognized beggars. We can beg. Where is anxiety? If we go to a rich man, that "I want some money for this purpose," they will pay. Where is the question of scarcity of money? You cannot say there is no money. A sannyāsī can go anywhere: "Give me some money. I want to do this." They are meant for begging. And in India still... Why India? Everywhere. I am speaking of India. Still now, although India is so poverty-stricken and materialized, if a sannyāsī goes to beg something, nobody will refuse. Nobody will refuse, especially in the village. They'll never refuse. "Baba, (Hindi)." He'll give. Actually our āśramas are maintained by begging mūrti. Mūrti... You... Hundred houses, hundred mūrti. Then you can...

Mr. Asnani: Mūrti means they're so much helpful of...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You go and eat there. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: But I don't go there to eat it. These government regulations are very bad. I don't think they would be able to...

Gurudāsa: It's your own right to...

Dr. Patel: He thought that India is spoiled by American policy, Mr. Dulles's. And he spoiled the pitch, this Mr. Nehru, Nehru, being a flamboyant, highly arrogant man... And then they supported Pakistan, and Americans lost lot of money on these small wars. Instead of that, much money was given away to a poor country. it was Dulles who got United States to this present condition. We should have insulated this country after svaraj, not selling anything, not taking anything. Produce yourself or starve and die. People don't work when they get food like that.

Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Last year they exported so much of this groundnut. Groundnut oil is costlier than ghee. (talks on for few minutes)

Prabhupāda: So we can go? (end)

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still, nobody will say that Kuntī is as good as Arjuna or Bhima.

Dr. Patel: How can anybody say?

Prabhupāda: That is... How you'll get the equal rights?

Dr. Patel: No woman smaller than Kuntī could have produced an Arjuna.

Prabhupāda: You can produce. That is another thing. A cook can produce foodstuff suitable for rich man, but that does not mean he is rich man.

Dr. Patel: You argue. (laughs)

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you told one story about the animals having a meeting and trying to become free from the control of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Our śāstras say (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Everyone is (Sanskrit). That is according to his position. That does not mean equal. Kṛṣṇa Himself worshiped Sudāmā Vipra. That does not mean Sudāmā Vipra is as good as the Personality of Godhead. When Nārada was coming in Dvārakā, Kṛṣṇa immediately got down and... Nārada was smiling, "Just see the fun." But etiquette. Nārada never said that "I am better than Kṛṣṇa or equal to Kṛṣṇa." Never said.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: The freedom is in leisure time. They have a lot of leisure time.

Prabhupāda: Where is leisure time? You rise early in the morning and start for your office. Where is your leisure time? All imagination. I have seen in New York. They are coming from the other parts, starting early in the morning, two hours in the ferry and two hours in the cars, and standing two hours. What is this? Leaders, rich men, can think like that, that "I have leisure," but a worker, lower class, they have no freedom. That is illusion, and we are trying to give freedom to everyone. That is freedom. You are forced to go to the factory and work there in a hellish condition of life. Is that freedom?

Rāmeśvara: There must be still education so the people will... Say we are one day...

Prabhupāda: No education, no. Education will be required only for the guiding class: brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, not for anyone, śūdras. They are two only. Others will... What education required? Suppose if you produce... If you..., you are accustomed to agriculture, cow protection, there is no need going to college and schools. If you remain illiterate, still you can do.

Rāmeśvara: But in America...

Prabhupāda: No, no, America is not... I am talking of the (indistinct), the class who will guide the aim of life, brāhmaṇa class, and a class that will give them protection from injuries by others, kṣatriya class. Then the next class, food-producing men, they do not require. Actually only brāhmaṇas, they require education, or all others, they will simply see and learn. So little education required—that you can learn by hearing only, that's all. Suppose a brāhmaṇa class says that "This is good; this is bad." So you hear and accept. It doesn't require to go to school and college. So education will be simplified. (break) It has become very much complicated.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.

Guest (2): Today somebody is a brāhmaṇa, tomorrow's he's kṣatriya, and day after tomorrow he's something else.

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: More than that.

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: In Bombay there was nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay. (laughs)

Gurukṛpa: Bombay was worse than nothing. (laughter) It'd been better if there was nothing in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, you are rich man's sons, Americans. We are poor Indians. My father was not a rich man, but your father, all are rich man's father, rich man.

Gurukṛpa: You are the father. You are a rich man. We have nothing.

Prabhupāda: No, I may be rich man's father, (laughter) but my father was not rich man. (laughs) I may be called rich man's father.

Bhāgavata: It is due to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we have... Any opulence that has come, it has come by your grace.

Prabhupāda: Not... Kṛṣṇa's. They were surprised that we are spending twelve lakhs of rupees, India.(?) That's a fact.

Gargamuni: They understand that kind of talk. Their eyes lit up. They all became wide..., very alert when you began speaking of money.

Prabhupāda: And our daily income is six lakhs. They cannot imagine, but actually this is fact.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.

Gurukṛpā: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.

Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man. In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases. These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men. You know that?

Satsvarūpa: The first time?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll promise... You have got five thousand dollars. They'll promise 100,000 dollars' property you'll get, and how it will be done, this scheme, that scheme... "We'll do this scheme, that..." Then they will take five thousand dollars from you, and they will say, "Now it is finished. Now bring more money." Then further made... That lawyer who was trying to give me a permanent visa?

Satsvarūpa: Yeah, some Greek name.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So simply hear them. That's all. One big barrister, he was my friend. He is dead, M. C. Chatterji. He's a very big barrister. He used to charge sixteen thousand rupees for one appearance. So he was stating about when..., that he came to Vṛndāvana, and he met one boy, and "He asked me some sweets, I gave him sweet. Later on, when I was coming back to Delhi, I saw that boy was running on the train." He said. Such a big barrister, he said like that. "Oh, he was so..." Posturing like this. What can I say? "Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running after you in the train?" This is going on. Another friend's wife, she came to Jagannātha Purī. So Jagannātha Purī, those who are rich men, they are allowed to go near the Jagannātha. So that lady said that "While I was circumambulating, Jagannātha was snatching my cloth." Jagannātha became so much attached with that blackish woman that He began to snatch his (her) cloth. So many stories I know. So what can be said? "Why did you not remain with Jagannātha? Why you came back?" This is going on. So I have got experience of many such stories. Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running with his train. I have to take. And Jagannātha was snatching her cloth. They are very poisonous things. I was never fortunate with such incidences. I am simply trying to carry out the order of my Guru Mahārāja. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Polynesian actually.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is actually a type of Chinese people. That, our Bali-mardana's wife, belongs to that stock. But in order to elevate her she represents that "I belong to the Japanese." (laughs) but I have studied. She belongs to that Hawaii. Maybe her father or somebody was respectable or rich man in that Hawaii, but she does not belong to Japan. She is that Hawaiian-Chinese stock. So the United States, they have included this and going on nice. Their position is now secure. Nobody can invade. The Japanese tried to invade Pearl Harbor. Then finished. Atom bomb. The atom bomb was dropped on account of their attempt to invade this Pearl Harbor. In Honolulu there is Pearl Harbor.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. They would never have entered the war unless... They weren't going to enter the war...

Prabhupāda: These poor Japanese, in two, three wars they attempted to expand. They are very poor in their land. Practically they have no place, very poor. Only by some technical knowledge they are maintaining. Otherwise they have no food, no shelter. Very poor country. I have studied. The Dai Nippon directors, they are living in a thatched house. And their system is: big company, they supply everything—food, cloth, medicine, children's education, and little salary. So people do not leave the post.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This will be a revolution, science and Bhagavad-gītā.

Gargamuni: He's our member. (break) ...three times to our temple in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: And through another member, Mr. Mahesvari, he became one of our members. (break)

Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: I read that. They called him, so he stopped having sex and went to the bedroom, but it was too late. His father was already dead. So he must have been actually having sex just at the moment his father died.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has written. Not only that. Nowadays somebody has accused that even in his old age he was having sex with young girls. I do not know. But it is a fact, when he was coming in the meeting he would touch two young girls, granddaughter and granddaughter-in-law, and then come in the meeting. I have seen. One gentleman in our, the Mullick's Thakur Badhi, when we were there. He was attorney. So when there was some function, so all neighboring men were invited. So he was also invited. He would come with at least three, four prostitutes. And he was old man, blind. Asutosh Bhan. He became very rich man by cunning lawyer. He was a lawyer. So he would take a credit that "When I go to a friend's house to keep my invitation, I take some three, four prostitute and flatterer. Then..." And he'd be received very nicely. We have seen when, when we were boys, ten years, twelve years old. I have seen it. Formerly, in our father's time, it was aristocratic to keep one prostitute and keep one garden also. Then he'll get... So this man, dehātma-buddhi and sexually inclined, he is mahātmā. This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gītā, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense, and he has become God?" What kind of God? Senseless God? And God's definition is aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), jñāna. God means full in knowledge. And a man who has no sense, he has become God? From logic. Jñāna-vairāgyayaś caiva. God means he has got full knowledge. And this man is senseless and he has become God. Logic, how you can defy? And they're accepting: "Ramakrishna is God." How you defend it? I am giving this logic. Defend.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ne, one or two will do. Why so many? That's... So what benefit he has got, this Manasvī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually he is at a great loss. Any position he had here when he was a devotee, he has lost everything. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...with this lantern? Electricity was introduced when we were boy, and that also not every house could provide electricity. Formerly they used to utilize gas, coal gas. If one man has got gaslight in his house, he is considered to be rich man. And gas... Mantle... Formerly electricity was... What is that? Carbon? Two carbon? In the morning it has to be changed. That Mahatma Gandhi Road was Harrison Road. So in our childhood, when the carbon would be changed, they would throw. We shall collect it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you do with it?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, play. "We have collected something." So electricity was introduced in our life when we were ten, twelve years old. Before that, there was no electricity.

Brahmānanda: But still you were able to read.

Prabhupāda: With this lantern. With this.

Brahmānanda: Nowadays they think if there is no electricity then there can be no civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He's half-spoiled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is he the oldest son?

Prabhupāda: He was little crazy. Might have gone away from home. Very intelligent boy he was. His mother made him crazy. Very... He was standing first in school. Very intelligent. She spoiled the whole family life. It was good for... For my youngest daughter I selected one very nice boy, rich man. She did not give. She wanted to keep her as her assistant, and she's not married.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even now. How old? She must be forty-five years old.

Prabhupāda: Not so much. Older than Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So she must be thirty-five.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thirty-five. Most irresponsible and lethargetic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very selfish to keep one's daughter not married.

Prabhupāda: But still, all the children are addicted to the mother. She does not do anything. I used to... Like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should be addicted to you.

Prabhupāda: They all bokā, rejected. Let them become happy in their own way. (break) But because I talk with everyone, they are...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What will be the difference between the Vṛndāvana gurukula and this gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Nothing. The same thing. (break) Civilized man. "Beware of Dog." "Keep aloof, private place."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fearful.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Above other more senior men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, selected me. "Someday I shall appoint him manager."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other people working there couldn't understand that so easily.

Prabhupāda: Three, four men liked me very, very much. One is my father, one is Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra, one my Guru Mahārāja, and..., who else? One, my maternal uncle. Rakal Chandrardha. He was very rich man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his name?

Prabhupāda: Rakal Chandrardha(?). He has got a street. He liked me. He's known to(?) take care of his son very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your mother's brother.

Prabhupāda: Not real, but cousin.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your mother's...

Prabhupāda: My mother is the brother's daughter, and he was the sister daughter. Just like our this nephew, first cousin.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is...

Hari-śauri:

āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi
ko 'nyo 'sti sadṛśo mayā
yakṣye dāsyāmi modiṣya
ity ajñāna-vimohitāḥ

"The demoniac person thinks, 'So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifice, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice.' In this way such persons are deluded by ignorance."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he gets a toothache and it's all finished. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. The rascal Sai Baba says, "I am God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it seems that they have detected him for sure. He's really becoming publicly denounced now all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Harikeśa: I was thinking also that Gopāla Kṛṣṇa could buy the milk powder from Bali-mardana by printing books for him. He could print the books in India for Australia...

Prabhupāda: I have suggested already, already suggested that "Take milk powder and ghee from Australia, and every center distribute prasādam like anything." And in India at least, if you give them nice puri and chānā preparation and sweet preparation from milk, oh, they'll be so glad, both poor man and rich man. Yesterday I was eating kacuris. What is this kacuri? Made of ghee. Samosā, made of ghee; rasagullā, made of... Cow is so important. She can deliver so many nice preparations, sweet and salty. The whole world does not know how to eat. Like rākṣasas they are killing the poor animals. So we have to teach. This is an introduction of new type of civilization for making life successful.

Harikeśa: This news in India that they are outlawing cow-killing—some news has been coming that they're outlawing cow-killing in India—is very encouraging to all the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are doing it on account of this movement. Government has appreciation our movement, from private sources. Now this, our American, what is called? Opposing.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, even Birla doesn't have.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: So far, he seems to be more preoccupied with his own ideas, so we don't know whether there will be any benefit to this meeting.

Prabhupāda: But if he wants to meet, I have no objection. (break) ...and the host was very rich man in anywhere. And he has no son. He expressed his desire to father to take me. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your father would not give you up. He was a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Another gentleman in Hasi(?)... We were going in the same car. So he requested me, "Please come here." An old man, nice, very well-to-do man. And after giving the nice seat and some refreshment, so he said that "I like you very much. I have no son. Why don't you become my son?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like everyone is very affectionate to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. He picked up on the street like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ne, adopted son, that is a practice.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say like that? And Kṛṣṇa says openly, mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do? This is all simply concoction. You cannot do anything.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

The nature's law will go on. You cannot make a poor man a rich man, unhappy man an happy man. That is not possible. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Can you make a hog eat halavā instead of stool? Can you make? By nature's way it is going on. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These are foolish person who concoct ideas. It is not possible. If you can do anything to the human society, induce him to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.

Sita Ram Singh: Same distressed condition.

Prabhupāda: Rather, they are more distressed. Take for example, in our childhood my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we were not very rich men. But we had no want. Father was maintaining his family, getting children married, distributing the wealth. Everything very nice. And we never felt any want. In this mango season, because father saw it that "There must be a full basket of mangoes daily for the children," so we were jumping, playing and eating mangoes. And now, taking consideration of gold standard... At that time my mother was purchasing gold, twenty rupees...

Sita Ram Singh: Per tolā.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-two rupees. Now the same gold is six hundred rupees. So three hundred times more?

Sita Ram Singh: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If my father's income was three hundred rupees, increased by three hundred, it becomes nine thousand. So where is the nine thousand rupees income for a middle-class man?

Sita Ram Singh: Quite.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One gentleman, he has now become my disciple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Sindh. That jeweler from Calcutta?

Jayapatākā: He's given (indistinct) me.

Prabhupāda: They are very rich man, that Singh jeweler. They can give. He is very nice man, very nice man and very well-to-do. You have seen them?

Jayapatākā: Yes, before I went I saw him, and he gave me three or four names of very wealthy people in Bangladesh to see, and those people are also... One person already became a member, and they'll give us much support.

Prabhupāda: No, you'll get.

Jayapatākā: There are so many. They're scattered about. I couldn't see all the different people in a short period. It's a big place.

Prabhupāda: And whole Bangladesh is a picture.

Jayapatākā: It's just so green, all rivers. And everywhere I saw rice field and jackfruit and mango, everywhere filled with fruits, very luscious.

Prabhupāda: And cow's milk.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There was a big temple of prostitutes in Calcutta, Kach-Kamil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kach...?

Prabhupāda: Kach-Kamil. Kach-Kamil means the gentleman who kept her, he was a big glass merchant. So the temple was decorated with mirrors and glass, and her name was Kamil, so Kach-Kamil temple. Still there are. Everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious, either poor man, retired man or prostitute or gentleman or rich man—everyone. The society itself was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There wasn't any influence of that Ramakrishna Mission yet?

Prabhupāda: No Ramakrishna... Who cares for?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had no... I mean, nowadays they are so widespread in their effect.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Oh... Because people are degraded. Who cared for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those days it was much purer.

Prabhupāda: Still who cares for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now people are hodgepodge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very often the Marwaris, they are in that...

Prabhupāda: Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Gujarati, yeah, Gujarat. In Bombay there is a big Bombay Tri(?). Pañcadraviḍa Swami, that was his special area. He would go down there, huge spice area.

Prabhupāda: There is a special name of that place. Everyone, every poor man or rich man, must use quantity of spice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was surprised. In Bombay this one life member, very wealthy man... I thought, "Oh, this man must have many businesses." And I found that he only had one business. He simply exports cardamom. And he's a very wealthy man, and he simply exports little cardamom seeds, but such quantities, and it fetches a very good price abroad.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many merchants. They deal in quantity and stock huge. Nobody can compete with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they buy everybody out.

Prabhupāda: He can give so cheap one lakh. Somebody gives you a black, what is called...? Berries, berries.

Upendra: Black pepper?

Prabhupāda: Black pepper.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: Beautiful, so beautiful, so exact, not...

Prabhupāda: No, they know business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a good businessman, this Deoji Punja. His name is Deoji Punja.

Prabhupāda: His father was a goldsmith, very humble position. Now they are the richest man. So Brahmānanda not required?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think Brahmānanda will go. Too costly for him. They can't afford it. I'm glad that they're inviting Yaśodā-nandana Mahārāja. I think it may be too difficult for you to go there at this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You should stick to your principle that until you're completely... The only thing that can make you move out of Vṛndāvana is Śrī-Śrī-Rādhā-Rāsa-Vihārī.

Mr. Myer: In Bombay.

Prabhupāda: That.

Mr. Myer: That will be very big event.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For Them you will do anything. 'Cause actually They have done everything for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You asked Them to stand there despite...

Mr. Myer: Yati Prabhu was telling me the entire story, how Śrīla Prabhupāda moved into his..., when it was not even completed, and all the devotees had to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, recently?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I learned about some time back. I was watching big picture and all. There are also...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mrs. Singol, she wrote a letter.

Prabhupāda: Doctor.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wonderful. We do not find such atmosphere now. Even maidservant, servant. Their character was not very good—still devotee(?). And this was the opportunity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Each of us is society.

Prabhupāda: Rādhā-Govinda Mandir. And the center was that Mulliks Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. This Mulliks, some of them were capitalist. Capitalist means rich men, they kept prostitute. But are still devotee. In the morning they would, after taking bath and everything, changing clothes, they must go to see Rādhā-Govinda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they liked to see Rādhā-Govinda.

Prabhupāda: They were devotee. Without seeing Rādhā-Govinda, they would not take their...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was the Deity very nicely worshiped?

Prabhupāda: Oh, at that time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in our temples. Really?

Prabhupāda: Dress, jewelry, and foodstuff, oh... Would offer kacuris, very big, first-class, and luci, all very crispy.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it says, guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya, bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). So it's fortunate because the guru gives the...

Prabhupāda: So that fortune is... By fortune he gets a guru. And by the instruction of guru he gets Kṛṣṇa. So to create fortune we have to take this regulative principle, to become fortunate that someday he'll be able to meet somebody who is real guru and who will give him real guidance. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Therefore pious activities and other things, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā, these things are recommended, to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa. These things are required. If he remains like animal, that fortune will never come. This is the architecture. So that fortune begins when he enters the varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas. That is a easiest way. Fortune does not come that "This is very important. Man is the architect of his own fortune." He must accept some process to become fortunate. And if you want to become fortunate through the rich man, you should enter... (microphone moving) ...just like businessman... (microphone moving) And without doing something, how you can get fortune? That is now... There is no such program. The program is just a animal program: eating, sleeping, mating and defend. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important, to give them the fortune, not immediately but our immediate future, by acting in this way, he'll be fortunate.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Unnecessary, and increase anxiety.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The worries increase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why more? Live very comfortably and be advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much can you eat more than your share?

Prabhupāda: We have seen many persons... The other day, he was our member. One Mr. Agarwal? Very rich man. He committed suicide falling down from the bridge to the Ganges. What is that? Very rich man. The happiness cannot be attained in that way. Happiness is in Kṛṣṇa. It is so sublime that... Dhruva Mahārāja went for kingdom, and he performed austerities. When he saw Kṛṣṇa he said, "I don't want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I came to ask You something, but I am now fully satisfied." That is happiness. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir... yayātmā supra... (SB 1.2.6). You want to satisfy your ātmā. So that can be satisfied when you are fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise simply by material wealth, increasing your economic position, that is not... They do not know it. The European civilization, they are struggling very hard-colonization, industrialization, this... (end)

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And his wife takes four bottles of Nax Pomica.(?) If we said that "Dr. Bannerji prescribes Nax Pomica(?) and different (indistinct) to every person," therefore we finished the Nax Pomica(?) bottle very quickly. He was the biggest customer for Nax Pomica, Tincture Nax Pomica.(?) So he... And he was very famous doctor. And Abhinas Chandra Bannerji, he went to Allahabad very poor condition. Then, by medical practice, he became very rich man. I think simply by the mercy of Nax Pomica.(?) So one must know the right way. (coughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How's your cold, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: There is nothing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it changing the condition at all? We should think how to get rid of it.

Prabhupāda: How to rid?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember one thing you were taking to loosen the phlegm in Māyāpur when you had a cough. You were taking a little hot lemon juice in the mornings.

Prabhupāda: You can give me.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. Bombay is the best city. He has got facility to stay there. For business Bombay is the best city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In India.

Prabhupāda: In India. No, world. It is a very important city. Export, import, local. Tremendous business possibility there. Many poor men goes and becomes very rich men. Bombay is very important center. You have to get a place by giving bribe, fifty thousand, sixty thousand, to stay there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call that huṇḍi.

Prabhupāda: Not huṇḍi.

Bhakti-caru: Pagri.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pagri, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Pagri, yes. To get a place there... Bombay is so important that if you want to get a place you have to pay no less, fifty thousand, lakh of rupees to stand. Then do business. Very important. Anything you do, you must have land first of all to stand. Otherwise what you'll do? To stand in Bombay you have to pay lakh of... Don't you see—we drive away the tenants—how much we recompense. We pay compensation.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Prabhaviṣṇu has some Bengali articles. Should I call Bhakti-caru to read them?

Prabhupāda: Oh. Prabhaviṣṇu, you have come?

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is a... There was a great Bengali poet. He was very rich man, Micheal, Madhusūdana Datta. So he went to England, and because he was extravagant, he spent all his money. So he was in difficulty. He begged some money from his countrymen, help him. But nobody gave him. Only there was a big paṇḍita, Isvaracandra Vidyasagar. He gave him the money. He thought that "Such a big man is in need of money. Let me... He may pay or not." So after receiving that money, he thanked Isvaracandra Vidyasagar, that "You have got courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother." He was poet, so he gave these two examples: the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. So you are Englishman. You are famous for your forefathers' courage to expand British Empire. The America is also your creation. But everything in this material world deteriorates. That is not fault. But Englishmen were, at least formerly, famous for courage, enthusiasm, expansion of prestige. This Lord Clive was a crewman in a ship, and he established British Empire. So you have to show that Englishman-courage. So you have done something which has proved Englishman-courage. And go on doing it. That is your heritage. And two nice fields, Bangladesh and Nepal. Nepal is only Hindu free state, or it is called... Now India is also free.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Apartment?

Haṁsadūta: No. It's a house. Quite a large house. Large area.

Prabhupāda: What foot is area?

Haṁsadūta: It's forty feet wide by maybe three hundred feet long. It's ten minutes from the center of the city. That particular piece of land is worth about two lakhs. There's another man, very rich man. He saw the Bombay project, and he promised to give us a piece of land right on the beach for which he already had zoning permission to build a hotel. It's also a very nice area. But the most important thing is we're trying to get some books published in Tamil and Singhalese languages. And we do a lot of preaching. Is there something special you want me to do there, Prabhupāda? Do you have some...

Prabhupāda: No. There is every chance of making it successful, and the... As Kīrtanānanda has developed New Vrindaban, similarly you can do.

Haṁsadūta: Something along that line?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: They asked that question about what medicine the poor man would take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What medicine the poor man would take. So he said, "Poor man or rich man, it doesn't matter. The price of it is about forty-eight rupees per tolā, because the gold that is given, it's given back at the end." It's just passed through, the gold. It's not utilized itself. So forty-eight rupees a tolā. This is what he said, very big Marwari kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this Rāmānujī kavirāja was charging five hundred rupees a tolā. And Vanamali, when we gave him gold, he never returned any gold. So... This is the position, cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Vanamali was also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something. Anyway, before we leave I'm going to speak with Bhagatji. Bhagatji is the one who gave the gold and pearls to Vanamali. So I think Bhagatji will be able to recover it. We'll leave this medicine with Bhagatji, and he can give the medicine to Vanamali and take the money. So Smara-hari will be leaving today, just now. And we've already spoken with Delhi, and they're already going to purchase the airline tickets. Either we will leave Wednesday... Today is Monday. Either we will leave Wednesday or we will leave Friday. We're not going to travel on Thursday. And they've already informed Calcutta and Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Who will go with me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Divine Grace, Bhavānanda Mahārāja, myself, Bhakti-caru Mahārāja, Śatadhanya Mahārāja, Upendra Prabhu, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Bharadvāja. That'll be on the plane. Then in the train, Pradyumna, Arundhatī, some other devotees also. So eight of us will be going on the plane with you, seven plus Your Divine Grace, and you will have three seats. Altogether, we're purchasing ten seats. So I don't think there will be any difficulty. We're going in full team. Scientist is with us. In case of any special knowledge, Svarūpa Dāmodara will be there. Bhavānanda with his gun. (laughter) Full team. I think it will be a nice journey, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I hope.

Page Title:Rich man (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:11 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=83, Let=0
No. of Quotes:83