Restriction (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"restrict" |"restricted" |"restrictedly" |"restricting" |"restriction" |"restrictions" |"restrictive" |"restrictively" |"restricts"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: restrict* not "no restriction*" not "no such restriction" not "without restriction*"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: What do you mean He wouldn't address him because He was a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsīn, the restriction is the sannyāsī should not beg from pound-shilling man or see them. That is a restriction. Women and men of pounds-shillings-pence.

Hayagrīva: But I thought Rāmānanda Rāya was a devotee.

Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Initiation means formally acceptance of the line of activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Before that, before initiation, we invite everyone to come and sit down with us, chant, dance, take prasādam, hear philosophy. And if he understands, "Oh, this is very nice," then he offers himself to be initiated. Then we accept. Then we impose this restriction that "If you want to be initiated..." We get hundreds of letters by everyone who has attended our classes. Daily we are getting some married couples or boys and girls, but most of them are younger. My students are within thirties. The oldest student I have got at the present moment, he is twenty-eight years. No, Kirtanananda is about thirty years old. That's all. So, of course, I do not get any older people. That is nice, hopeful, because younger section, if they take it very seriously, then I have hopes that they will preach in future, even in my absence. And old people, if a man becomes too much accustomed to a certain limited habits, in old age it is very difficult to give it up unless one is extraordinarily intelligent.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations... We can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds, no. But we make very nice preparations. Everyone likes. So this is one of the restriction, that you cannot take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the second restriction. And the third restriction is no intoxication—no smoking, no drinking, even no tea taking, no coffee taking, nothing: These American boys they are accustomed to all these habits very naturally, but they have given up. They don't take. In our temple there is no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, no cigarette smoking, nothing of the sort, you see. This is the third restriction. And the fourth restriction is that you cannot take part in gambling or some unnecessary sporting because you have to utilize your time. Your time is very short. If you miss this opportunity of human form of life... Because we do not know when death is coming. It is not that because I am old, I am nearing death, and you are young, you are not nearing death. Who knows that you may die before me? So there is no certainty. So the principle is that because this human form of life is so important to perfect oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should not waste even a minute. You see? So therefore we don't allow unnecessary sporting. You see? This is simply waste of time. So no illicit sex life, no meat-eating or animal food, no intoxication, no gambling. So every student has to follow these four prin... Otherwise I don't initiate. I don't take cheap students, that "You can do whatever you like, and you pay me some money. I give you some mantra, and you become God." I don't say like that. I don't bluff like that. I have not come to earn money from your country, but I have come to your country to give you something sublime, not to take you, not to take from you, not to exploit you, but to give you something sublime. You see? So that is the third stage, initiation. And then, if you are situated in the third stage nicely—that means if you follow the regulative principles under my direction—then the fourth stage automatically comes. After this third stage, the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, up to eighth, automatically comes. That is gradual development. So in the third stage, if you follow the regulative principle and chant with some prescribed number, numerical strength, then your all misgivings will be over automatically.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: The swami... Now did I understand you to say the swami has no sex life?

Prabhupāda: No, certainly not.

Interviewer: Certainly not. All right, now when you...

Prabhupāda: Well, actually sex life is allowed only to the householders. According to Vedic culture, sex life is restricted. There are four divisions of society. The brahmacārī is strictly forbidden for sex life. The vānaprastha, they are also forbidden for sex life, and the sannyāsī, they are also forbidden for sex life. So out of four divisions, three divisions are strictly forbidden for sex life. Only the householders they can have restricted sex life with married wife simply for begetting children. That is the Vedic culture.

Interviewer: Only for propagating children.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Interviewer: Then there is a similarity to Catholicism. The priest is supposed to be celibate.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Anywhere there is spiritual conception, sex life is not indulged. Anywhere, either it may be Christianity or Hinduism... Sex life is materialism. That is opposite number of spiritualism. So people are trained gradually to refrain from sex life. And in the sannyāsa life he's completely trained. Therefore he's allowed to move in the society for preaching spiritual education.

Morning Walk -- March 20, 1968, San Francisco:

Mālatī: They could go to another planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many places. The living entity is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as sarvaga. Sarvaga means he can go anywhere within this universe. He can go in the spiritual sky also. Sarvaga means including everywhere, if he likes. As I explained yesterday, last night, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If he likes, he can go to the planets of the demigods, to the Pitrloka, he can remain here, or if he likes, he can go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa. He has got this freedom. Just like there are many government posts. You can select any one of them, but you must be qualified for that. So it is a question of qualification, how you can go to the planets of the demigods, how you can go to the planet of the pitṛs. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). If you develop your modes of goodness, then you go to the, promoted to the higher planets because in the higher planets, the third-class living entities are not allowed. Don't you see that in here also, in America, for permanent visa we have to undergo so many formalities? Why? The restriction is there, that American government cannot allow everyone to become a permanent resident here. Restriction. Similarly, in higher planets, only those who have developed the quality of goodness... The quality of goodness contains those eight principles: religiosity, truthfulness, cleanliness... So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). Sattva means quality of goodness. So one has to develop the quality of goodness. Not an upstart, simply having a play sputnik, he wants to go to the Candraloka, moon planet. It is not possible. What quality he has got? He will immediately die. Temperature is... (end)

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had all these facilities. He was learned, very honored young man in His country; He had many followings. In one incidence we can understand how beloved leader He was. The Kazi challenged His saṅkīrtana movement and first times warned Him not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and when He did not care for it, then he ordered that, er, that mṛdaṅga should be broken. So the constables came and broke the mṛdaṅgas. This information was given to Lord Caitanya, and He ordered civil disobedience. He was the first man in the history of India who started this civil disobedience movement. It is not Gandhi who is the originator of civil disobedience; it was Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "Defy the order of the Kazi." Kazi means magistrate. So "This evening we shall go at the Kazi's house in hundreds of thousands, with mṛdaṅga and kīrtana." So simply by His order many hundreds of thousands young men—not young men; young, old, all kind of men-gathered, and... The point is just how popular leader He was. Even in His young age, when He was only twenty years old, how popular He was. So..., and because He was a learned brāhmaṇa, people would send Him many presentation. A brāhmaṇa is not expected to work. That is dhana pratigraha. Pratigraha means accept offerings from others. Just like you offered so many things to me-money, clothing, food—so a sannyāsī, a brāhmaṇa, can accept. Not others. A gṛhastha cannot. There are restriction. A brahmacārī can, but he can accept on behalf of his spiritual master, not personally. These are the rules. So He was learned brāhmaṇa, and people used to present Him profusely, so He had no economics problem. Not that He renounced the world on account of poverty or some strain. He had no poverty, He was opulent. A brāhmaṇa does not require any great amount of wealth just to pull on his family. So that much amount was more than that He was receiving. He was teacher also. Paṭhana, pāṭhana, yajana, yājana. Brahmin's business is to teach and to become a very learned scholar and teach people how to worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee himself, and accept charities from others and distribute it again.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Our process is to accept everything which conduces to develop Kṛṣṇa's love. So those methods are given by experienced ācāryas, that "You just follow." Just like when a child tries to walk, the mother gives some direction or some help in a wooden plank, that "You try to move in this way. You will learn how to walk," similarly, there are certain principles given by experienced ācāryas. If we follow those principles, then we can work or we can go to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not the method that is important. The real important is how to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa. If somebody develops love of Kṛṣṇa, or God, without those methods, there is no objection. We are not limited by the methods or ritualistic methods. But there are certain ritualistic method, which, if one follows, then he can quickly learn the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like we restrict our students in four principles: illicit sex life and intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. So it is not that a gambler or a meat-eater or a man addicted to illicit sex life, he cannot love Kṛṣṇa. It is not that. But that is very rare case. If he follows these principles, then it will be easier for him. Because Kṛṣṇa, or God is pure, so so long one is impure in his habits, it is not possible for him. So these are the purificatory processes. And so far our signals or some marks on the body—just like we take tilaka; we have some beads—this means... Just like it is practical. When I was in Montreal and other cities, when we passed through the road, the children, the persons, they also said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So these marks and this symbolic representation reminds others to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a policeman, as soon as he appears in his dress, "Oh, here is a policeman," so similarly, these things are also required to remind others. Our process is to raise persons to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if by our symbolic representation one immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa, that is our success.

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: So these challenges were made amongst the kṣatriyas. Otherwise, generally, the parents would select. We were married. Whatever our parents selected, we accepted. I did not like my wife, (laughs) but gradually, I was accustomed. I was obliged to like. That's all. (laughs) That is the Indian system. You like or not like, you have to accept it. That's all. The psychology is that the girls, generally, before attaining puberty if she loves one boy, she cannot forget him. That is her psychology. And a boy also, when he is grown up, the first girl he makes choice, he also cannot forget. Therefore, by some way or other they are mixed up. So in your country the situation is different. You see? The boys and girls are freely mixing, and from school, college, they are freely mixing, free sex without any restriction. So we cannot enforce, at least, at the present moment. If some boy and some girl agree, then I bless him. That's all. Now another thing, that girls should not be taken as inferior. You see? Sometimes... Of course, sometimes scripture we say that "Woman is the cause of bondage." So that should not be, I mean to say, aggravated. (laughs) That should not be aggravated, that "Woman is inferior," or something like that. So the girls who come, you should treat them nicely, at least. I heard that Gargamuni, after his wife left him, he became a woman-hater like that. (chuckles) That is not good. You see? Yes. After all, anyone who is coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, man or woman, boys or girls, they are welcome. They are very fortunate. You see. And the idea of addressing "prabhu" means "you are my master." That is the... Prabhu means master. And Prabhupāda means many masters who bows down at his lotus feet. That is Prabhupāda. So each, everyone shall treat others as "My master." This is the Vaiṣṇava system. So now, who is going with your party? That girl?

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it does not look very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doesn't look right.

Prabhupāda: But in your country there are so many concessions. That is a different thing. But at least, in India, no... (laughs) In your country there cannot be any such restriction. In that way, she can go. But she is also, after all, young. She is also... Although she has got children, she is also young. She is not old enough. What is her age?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty.

Prabhupāda: Oh, just young.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm not worried so much how it looks in this country. What I'm worried about is the mixing. But people don't care. The public does not mind.

Prabhupāda: No, if you think her presence essential, you can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Uh, it is not essential. We have never tried to have all brahmacārī kīrtana outside, saṅkīrtana. We have always had some women, so I've always felt that we need women. But maybe we don't need them on saṅkīrtana.

Madhudviṣa: Did Lord Caitanya have women, householders traveling with Him when He went on saṅkīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were following. Still, saṅkīrtana, they follow. But they have got their husband. Saṅkīrtana, everyone can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Children too.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Now Dan not only said that you said that if people try to land on the moon they would not be able to. Can you explain what you meant by that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very common sense. Suppose if somebody wants to land on your country, America. You do not allow. There are so many restrictions, visas, passport, and immigration. And how do you expect to land there, all of a sudden there? They are so intelligent and their duration of life so long. They are far advanced in knowledge. Everything they're advanced. So you cannot expect in that way to land there. This is common sense affair. Besides that, the scientists also agree that the temperature there is two hundred degrees below zero, so how you can expect to land there and live there?

Reporter: In other words, you don't... How do you yourself feel? Do you feel that if the United States or the Soviet Union were to attempt a landing and their spacecraft went down, what do you yourself expect...

Prabhupāda: No, so far our calculation goes, from the books, nobody can do so. That is impossible.

Reporter: Well, does the book say that it would be impossible for anyone to even approach it? At what point would it be impossible...

Prabhupāda: Impossible means the process by which you are trying to reach there.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: I guess I've really asked the main question. Not the main question, but the thing I want to know again was, again, why this, and about people like the Maharishi, which turned me off and so many people. My daughter was very involved in that kind of thing for awhile, and she's terribly disillusioned.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The psychology is that your people, all the western people, especially youngsters, they are hankering after something, you see? But the difficulty is... Just like me. If somebody comes, "Swamiji, initiate me." I immediately say that "You have to follow these four principles," and he goes away. And this Maharishi, he did not put any restriction, you see? Just like a physician, if he says that "You can do whatever you like. You simply take my medicine, you'll be cured." That physician will be very much liked. You see?

Journalist: Yes. He'll kill a lot of people, but he's very liked.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) And a physician which says, "Oh, you cannot do this, you cannot do this, you cannot eat this," it is a botheration. So they want something. That is a fact. But at the same time, they want it very cheap. Therefore the cheaters come and cheat them. They take the opportunity. "These people want to be cheated. Oh let us take the advantage." You see. Otherwise, they are advising that "You are God, everyone is God. You just realize yourself, you have forgotten. You take this mantra, and you become God, and you become powerful. Whatever you like, you can control. And there is no control of senses. You can drink, you can have unrestricted sex life and whatever you like." People like this. "Oh, simply by fifteen minutes meditation, I shall become God, and I have to pay only thirty-five dollars." So many millions of people will be ready, "Oh, let me." I mean, thirty-five dollars in your country is not... But that much, thirty-five multiplied by million, it becomes thirty-five million dollars. (laughs) And we are crying here because we cannot bluff. We say that if you actually want, you have to follow these restrictions. We cannot allow you that the commandment is "You shall not kill," and I shall say, "Yes, you can kill. The animal has no feeling. The animal has no soul." We cannot bluff in this way. You see.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So far initiated members, they are about, not less than hundred. But there are many others, admirers. In each center there are at least fifty to sixty members.

Interviewer: I assume that being an initiated member means that the individual has acquainted himself sufficiently with your teaching and gone through certain disciplines? Is that?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Certainly. That is the first condition to accept one as my disciple, because there are some restriction. I don't allow illicit sex life. I don't allow intoxication. I don't allow meat-eating and gambling. So I build up their character. So naturally my followers are very restricted. (chuckles)

Interviewer: Well, now, I'd like to go over in some greater detail what the disciples may and may not do. I think that's where... I just wanted to get some of the factual background before we went into that. Now, your, the sexual abstinence does not include marriage, I gather.

Prabhupāda: No. Marriage allowed.

Interviewer: Marriage is allowed.

Prabhupāda: I say, "illicit sex." Without marriage, sex relation is forbidden.

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: I see. Would you say that there were times when, well, that there were marriages which were also illicit?

Prabhupāda: No. Of course, in civilized human society, either in India or in any other country, marriage is considered as sanctified, either in Hindu community or Christian community or Mohammedan community. But apart from that, for spiritual advancement, according to Vedic culture, sex indulgence is always restricted.

Interviewer: Always restricted. For purposes of procreation only?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. Sex, sex intercourse, is recommended only for good children. That's all.

Interviewer: Only to create children.

Prabhupāda: Yes, good children.

Interviewer: Good children. Well, if the parents are good, then there is a remarkable possibility that the children may have a chance to be. Is that not true?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the fact. That is the fact.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering. Tapaḥ divyam. That suffering is for transcendental realization. That is good. Tapo divyaṁ yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet (SB 5.5.1). Śuddhyet means your existence will be purified. And existence purified means you advance to realize unlimited happiness. What is the disease? Disease means there is limitation of eating, limitation of sleeping. Everything is limited. Limitation of mating. A diseased man cannot have sex life unlimitedly or whatever. There is restriction. A tuberculosis person is completely restricted, "You cannot have sex life." That restriction is for curing him. And the cure means he enjoys—whatever he thinks enjoyment, that is unlimited. Yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). Brahma-saukhyam, eternal happiness, unending happiness. So for acquiring unending, eternal happiness, if you have to accept some voluntary suffering in this life, everyone should do that. So if you ask... You can ask some questions. Adau gurvāśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. If you go to a person, superior, or spiritual master, then you should ask. You should be inquisitive for better understanding. Sad-dharma-pṛcchāt. Jijñāsu. Jijñāsu means inquisitive, jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, inquisitive for higher, happy life. Inquisitiveness. So what is your inquisitiveness?

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: All spirit. All the sky. Everywhere is sky, but when it's covered it is called cloud. Similarly when God is covered by some nonsense ideas, then it is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Therefore those who are too much absorbed in materialistic way, there is a restriction but don't attempt. Because he will be to think that God's name is just like my son's name my daughter's name. Therefore that restriction.

Ranadhir: I think when they worship, they're allowed to say God's name, it's just when they're not, when they're talking about Him outside the temple that they have to use different name.

Hayagrīva: We've got to tune some harmoniums.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, we have to work on the music boxes. We have to start material preparations for the evening.

Prabhupāda: That is not material. (laughter) We have no,...

Allen Ginsberg: A śabda preparation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, śabda is originally spi..., śabda-brahman.

Allen Ginsberg: We have to find out if all the...

Prabhupāda: Simply you have to understand that there is nothing material, everything is spiritual. That is required. So long you do not understand that everything is spiritual only, that is our defect.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So the other brother, Mādhāi said, "Oh, what you are doing? What you are doing? He's innocent." This news was reached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much angry. He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association. So they surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, I will accept you. I don't care for your past deeds, but you have to agree that no more this nonsense." That means before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi. So there were only two Jagāi-Mādhāis, but you'll meet hundreds of Jagāi-Mādhāis. So... But they can be delivered. There is no question that in their past life they had been sinful. Simply they have to agree that "No more this nonsense." Therefore I have kept these restrictions, these four restrictions. Anyone who adopts this life and initiated, and follows these restrictions, then he begins a new life.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is to restrict. Just like government opens liquor shop. That does not mean government is encouraging to drink. Those who are drunkard, going create disturbance, for them there is little concession, but they are responsible. If they become drunkard and causes some disturbance in the street, then he will be arrested by the police. He cannot say, "Oh, I have paid for the bottle." (Hindi) The bhakti is all-inclusive. (Explains Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān in Hindi) Brahmā-jñāna means, just like sunlight. You understand sunlight. That does not mean that you know sun disc. But both of them are light.

Guest (9): The Brahma-jñāna has got a limited jurisdiction.

Prabhupāda: It is these things that... This is the... just like ordinary...(Hindi) Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa bhūtaṁ... (Bs. 5.40). (Hindi)

Guest (9): Different stages? Are there different stages?

Prabhupāda: Different features. Just like Sūryaloka or Sūryadeva or Sūrya-raśmi. (Hindi)

Guest (9): I see.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Different stages. (Hindi)

Guest (9): You have to try to come in second arya. (?)

Prabhupāda: Then second, paramātmā-jñāna. Then bhagavad-jñāna.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Guest (1): That is karma-yoga.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was just going to explain all this karma, vikarma, akarma.

Guest (1): What does he know? (laughs)

Prabhupāda: In India, the land of sages, land of Kṛṣṇa, land of Lord Rāmacandra, land of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, without any restriction cow slaughter is going on. And they are speaking of karma-yoga. Just see the fun.

Guest (1): I don't know where this India is going to, the land of Kṛṣṇa is going to.

Prabhupāda: Well... No, we should try our best.

Guest (1): We have to fight these habits. It is our duty.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. So you are a military man. I request you to fight against this nonsense.

Guest (1): Swami, I wish you could come sometime. I will gather section of some people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll go. I'll go. Where? Just fix up some time.

Guest (1): Because I am very near to temple, only 100 yards.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That Takat? (?) Takat?

Guest (1): No, not Takat.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see, oh. We are thinking of having a branch near that Takat, in that Takat colony. What is your idea? Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness center. Is that a good locality?

Guest (1): I'll tell you. I'll fight Tukori(?). (indistinct)...

Prabhupāda: All right. No, no. Think twice before doing.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (3): When you apply jñāna and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is vijñāna. So jñāna knowledge, first knowledge, is what is God, what is God and what is my relation with Him. This is knowledge. Then you... When you act according to that knowledge, that is vijñāna. That is bhakti. When you understand fully well that "God is great, and I am a small minute part and parcels of God," and then you understand that the part and parcel's duty is to serve the whole... Is it not? Just like the finger is part and parcel of my body. Its duty is to serve the whole body. Similarly, if we accept, if we understand, that "I am part and parcel of God; then my duty is to serve God." But people are being misled that he is thinking God himself. Although he is under so many restrictions and stricture of the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāṇi guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). He is so foolish and rascal that he is thinking, "I am independent." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā karta aham iti manyate. He is strictly under the stringent laws of material nature, but still, he is thinking falsely that "I am supreme. I am independent." So therefore surrender required, that "I am not supreme." That is knowledge. That is knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births of this speculation, when actually he becomes jñānavān, wise, then he surrenders." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So unless we surrender, so long we think that "I am independent, I am God, I am Supreme," these are all illusions. What do you think?

Guest (2): Yes.

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: About three thousand we have got.

Woman Interviewer: And is it growing all the time?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is growing very slowly. Because we have got so many restrictions. People do not like any restriction.

Woman Interviewer: Yes. Where is the following the greatest? It is in America?

Prabhupāda: In America, in Europe, and Canada, in Japan, Australia. And India there is millions, there is millions of this cult. Apart from India, in other countries they are small quantity. But in India there are millions and millions.

Male Interviewer: Do you think your movement is the only way to come to know God?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: Do you think this movement is the only way to know God?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Male Interviewer: So how do you have that assurance?

Prabhupāda: From the authorities, from God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Male Interviewer: But if somebody else was to say that God had told him something else, would you equally believe him?

Śyāmasundara: It's not that we don't accept other religious processes.

Prabhupāda: No, we believe other process. Just like there are steps. If you want to go to the topmost story, so you go by steps. So some of them have gone fifty steps, some of them have gone hundred steps, but to complete the required steps is 1,000 steps.

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex (is) without marriage, without any relation, sex life, that is illicit sex life.

Woman Interviewer: So sex is allowed in marriage, but not outside.

Prabhupāda: That is animal sex life. Just as animals, they have no relationship and have sex life. But human society there is restriction. In every country, in every religion there is a system of marriage. So without marriage, sex life is illicit sex life.

Woman Interviewer: But sex is allowed within marriage.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...

Woman Interviewer: And what else would one have to give up for...

Prabhupāda: One has to give up all kinds of intoxicants.

Woman Interviewer: Is that drugs and spirits?

Prabhupāda: Any kind of drug that intoxicates.

Śyāmasundara: Even tea and...

Prabhupāda: Even tea, cigarette. They are also intoxicants.

Woman Interviewer: So that includes alcohol, marijuana, tea. Anything else?

Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to give up animal food. All kinds of animal food. Meat, eggs, fish, like that. And one has to give up gambling.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: Do you believe you (indistinct) people, if they hear it? If they hear this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. As they hear, they became purified, and that dormant consciousness becomes awakened. Yes. Awakened. That chance we are giving. We are chanting and others are hearing. By this process, chanting and hearing, both of us will be benefited, awakening our original God consciousness.

Revatīnandana: At the stage of awakening, when you're waking up, when you're becoming cured of the diseased condition, you sometimes have to restrict your diet. Later on, when you are healthy, you can take all kinds of foodstuffs in the proper way. But while you're getting over a disease you have to restrict your diet. Therefore we hear things that are directly concerned with Kṛṣṇa's name, form, activities. Later on, then we'll be able to see God in a flower, God in everywhere. Otherwise we'll see the flower however we enjoy a flower because we're not at that healthy stage. So therefore there are regulations that we follow for curing the disease. That means for a little while we restrict the diet. Then when we're healthy...

Prabhupāda: Just like these flowers. These flowers the devotees are bringing to their spiritual master, to God. They are not enjoying. Ordinary man, if he gets a flower, he'll put it in the pocket. How... You see? That is the difference of God consciousness. The flower is the same, but use is different.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is all right.

Dr. Weir: That's in him and nobody else.

Prabhupāda: But he, he has taken help from other scientists' method.

Śyāmasundara: In other words, everyone operates under a certain set of restrictions, controls that are not of their own choosing. Everyone is in that category. They may think, "I am the controller of my own destiny." But actually they are being pulled on every side.

Dr. Weir: That's so. But it's only when they break out from that control by, let's say making an observation or having an intuition that isn't inherent in the system of control in which they've been brought up, that they make an advance of any sort. You see, people with... I always give this example of Sir Alexander Fleming and Freud and others. People have been trained that dirty pet traditions should be thrown away, because they're moded and they will interfere with the experiment. This happens time again whereas a man suddenly thinks, "I will have a look at this. I'll ignore that." He breaks away from this control.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So long we are under the concept of this body, that "I am this body," his business is sense gratification, because this body means senses. We have got varieties of senses. So the bodily concept of life means the senses are dominant. Therefore, beginning from the animals up to the human being, under the bodily concept of life they're busy simply for sense gratification. Nature is giving chance, "All right." Because everyone who has come to this material world, that is for sense gratification. Those who deny to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, they are sent here, "All right, you satisfy your sense by your labor here." Kṛṣṇa can satisfy His senses without any labor, but we have to satisfy our senses by dint of our labor. Not easy. You cannot become a millionaire so easy, or he cannot be a citizen in the heavenly planet so easy. That is our experience. So if some man from a poor family becomes, wants to become a citizen of America, a rich man, it is not so easy. You have to undergo through so many things to get the citizenship. There are so many, that your country, yes, they have got big immigration department simply to consider this application of different countries for citizenship, or to immigrate. I have seen, in Montreal, people applying for citizenship or immigration, big line, very big line, and a similar immigration department in Canada, there is no problem. So people very much anxious to become citizens in America, because it's a rich country. So as there is restriction here in this place, in this planet, that you cannot enter any other country... If you think their country is very nice, actually, in comparison to other countries, there are so many facilities in America. At least, one can earn money like anything. So people are inclined to become citizen. But that is not easy, even within this planet. So how you will easily enter moon planet and other heavenly planets without being competent? It is not possible.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way. So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar(?), taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard. In your country, five thousand drunkard priests were consolidated in a hospital for treatment. They're getting money. So there is possibility, we are opening temples, public is contributing. But if we become easy-goer, "Now money is coming, let us eat sumptuously and eat, eat and sleep, and if possible drink also." But, of course, we are restricting. But naturally when one man becomes idle, idle brain is the devil's workshop. So if he can get... Just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country. When he has no difficulty to get money, then what he will do? He will simply drink or invent some means of intoxication, naked dance. So they became very much perturbed. Venasyāvekṣya durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam, vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma... Kṛpāya, they were very much compassionate. They cannot see. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Therefore, Vaiṣṇava is always unhappy by seeing other's unhappiness. They know how they are going to hell. Just like any gentleman will be aggrieved when they pass on the Bowery Street, seeing their fallen condition.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: How do I do this?

Prabhupāda: This process, as they are doing. You have seen. These boys are, our six boys, they are now initiated today. It is very simple. You have to follow the four restrictive regulations and chant this beads. Very easy.

Bob: Well, um, but... See, when I'm back in Bihar and following my lifestyle there, I..., if I follow all these regulative principles... Some I follow now, but not all... But if I follow all...

Prabhupāda: Some means?

Bob: Some...

Prabhupāda: There are only four regulative principles. Some means three, or two?

Bob: Two or three.

Prabhupāda: So why not other one?

Bob: No, no, I mean I follow one or two now. One or two now I follow.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why not the other three? What is the difficulty?

Bob: Umm...

Prabhupāda: Which one you follow?

Bob: Which one I follow? I am almost vegetarian, but I eat eggs.

Prabhupāda: That is also not fully. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: So the hippies have adopted that philosophy, hog philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: They have sex life anywhere, anytime, anyone.

Prabhupāda: Why? There are so many books. They are advocating that "You can have sex life. It doesn't matter whether it is mother or sister or daughter. Why should be restriction there? It is bodily necessity. That's all." They are advocating. There are so many books. You do not know? Huh?

Sudāmā: Yes, there are.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are books. In India, what to speak of other, in India some European or American book was written on the theme that a man fell in love with his daughter. And that book is the greatest, highest selling book. What is that book? You know?

Śyāmasundara: Lolita? There was one, Lolita it was called, about...

Sudāmā: The same theme.

Śyāmasundara: The same theme.

Sudāmā: It was also very popular in America.

Śyāmasundara: One of the most popular books of all. Some man and a twelve year old niece, nephew, daughter?

Pradyumna: Adopted daughter. Step-daughter.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: Oh. There's some famous islands between England and Holland called the Jersey Islands. There's special milk that comes from Jersey. Jersey milk is best.

Prabhupāda: No. These Europeans, Americans, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be more happy. That is assured. From all angles of vision-their family life, their political life, their social life, their cultural life, their religious life, their philosophical life, their scientific life—everything will be perfect. Now you have to teach them. I can give you the ideas how they'll be happy. The rascals, they do not know why, what is your specialness, and just to teach you this. My only ambition is that you are... (aside:) Oh, there is no water. You are supposed to be the most intelligent persons. (Prabhupāda drinks) So if you take, others will take. That is going on. So I have no distinction between East and West. They're thinking that East is conquering West by culture. That is their enviousness. (laughter) That is, they are afraid. Because the Britishers, they kept Indian culture suppressed so long because... (break) ...the kṣatriya, kings, in special cases. Not for public. Among the kṣatriyas. And among the vaiśyas, one day in a year, when they were allocated(?), to try one's luck. One day they'll bet. Not amongst the brāhmaṇas or the śūdras. Śūdras have no money to gamble, and brāhmaṇas prohibited. The kṣatriyas, they were also allowed in special cases, and the vaiśyas were allowed to engage in gambling one day in a year. That means restricted.

Devotee: Boy, that system of dharma... We can start discussing it tomorrow in our philosophy class. It's just so perfect. Everything is...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Whole plan is perfect.

Devotee: But the British systematically broke it down.

Prabhupāda: Because Lord Macauley(?) gave them in this study, they said that if you keep the Indians in their original culture, then they cannot be broken. Gandhi took that state: noncooperation. Don't cooperate with them. And then kill them. Devotee: This man who wrote this book made an interesting comment. He said that after..., or before the First World War, when the British were entering the First World War, they made a promise to the Indians that "If you help us fight this war, then we will give you freedom afterwards."

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What they will teach, what do they know? First of all you must know, then you will teach. You are rascal, what you will teach? That is another cheating. He does not know anything, he is a teacher. People want it. Just like these rascals are advertising, these gurus, they say "You haven't got to chant. You simply come to Guru Mahārāja." That means these people, because we have got so many restrictions, he has to chant, he has to follow, they think it is botheration. So that means immediately they want to be cheated. Therefore, another cheater is welcomed. They want to be cheated, so when a cheater comes, he is welcomed, "Oh, you are very nice. You are so simple, and this Swamiji is so strict." So they want to be cheated. Therefore God sends a cheater: "Go and cheat them."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why the individual is lacking intelligence, he doesn't know whether he's cheated.

Prabhupāda: No, he has got intelligence, but he wants to be cheated, wants cheap things. Just like our... Who has left, Saṅkarṣaṇa? Is that his name?

Jayatīrtha: Kapiladeva.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kapiladeva.

Prabhupāda: He has gone to that camp. He saw, "It is very difficult to follow the rules and regulations. Better go there." He wants to be cheated.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no spiritual philosophy. It is an academic, ordinary college. People understand that where is the credit, there are so many colleges. Responsible people, they understand that I am doing much more valuable thing. So what is the use of these schools and colleges? That (indistinct) school, college is not very good. And there are so many schools and colleges. That is not a very extraordinary thing.

Gurudāsa: Now I understand that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that school is not teaching spiritual philosophy. I told many people that if we got the chance to open a university, we would not compromise. We would not do anything with the government if they restricted our curriculum...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: ...without spiritual... Without spiritual it is void.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Gurudāsa: They think. Then I say, "You can teach all the subjects and also teach the spiritual. "

Prabhupāda: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.

Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. But you make higher study, higher study, higher study.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Indian man: He returned converted. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Instead of converting, he became converted.

Devotee (3): (break) ...was kicked out.

Prabhupāda: Who is that?

Devotee (3): Swami Satcitananda.

Prabhupāda: He was kicked out?

Devotee (3): He was kicked out.

Prabhupāda: By?

Devotee (3): By the upper echelon of his... He was... They found he was having sex with his secretary. So she...

Prabhupāda: They are all like that.

Devotee (3): She told her husband, and they told him either he would have to leave or he would have to renounce the title of swami or he would have to lessen the restrictions on brahmacārī. So he refused to do all three, then he joined together (indistinct). This was told to me by a friend of Bhaktijana's named Avery, who was one of... (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Vivekananda.

Indian man: Huh?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ (SB 7.9.45). (break)

Indian man: Is it all right (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (3): Ha ha. No restrictions.

Prabhupāda: No. There is business only. Why there should be restrictions? Everyone does so, beginning from Vivekananda, Aurobindo, everyone. Aurobindo also used to say that you haven't got to do anything, you simply think of me, just like Kṛṣṇa says: "Simply think of Me." (indistinct) (break)

Devotee (3): One man came here, a haṭha-yogī, so-called haṭha-yogī, and he was putting water in his nose and cloth in his stomach and all twisting this way, going under water, and they were all very amazed and many people came to see. Just like the circus.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And then they say "I will make you perfect man, whatever you like you can... You become my disciple, give me some money."

Devotee (3): And enjoy.

Prabhupāda: There is a proverb, that a drowning man catches even a straw. A man is drowning, he's seeing the straw is floating, he wants to catch it. So in western countries, they are so much fed up with this materialistic way of life that any person from India comes, they think he may give something spiritual.

Devotee (3): Hm.

Prabhupāda: Light. Catch it. But what... Why did you not have tilaka, both of you. You have no time for tilaka?

Devotee (3): Our tilaka was locked in the bathroom. The door got locked.

Prabhupāda: Tilaka, why it is locked in bathroom?

Devotee (3): Somehow the door became locked from inside this morning, I don't know how but we couldn't go inside.

Prabhupāda: You don't get him my tilaka? All right. What is this?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: We buy our beads at the market also. The thing is that if someone wants to be initiated, then he has to be prepared to follow some principles, four principles. Prabhupāda just mentioned them. He must be prepared to give up all intoxicants, all illicit sex life, meat-eating, meat, fish, eggs, and no gambling. And chant the prescribed number of rounds, sixteen rounds. And anyone can be initiated, but he must be prepared to follow these restrictions. Otherwise, the effect of the chanting will not be as...

Indian: As effective as it would be.

Haṁsadūta: Exactly.

Guest (4): So what you're saying is that there's no harm by his...

Prabhupāda: No, you can... That will help you in future to give up these habits. Chanting you can begin at any condition. But when we initiate officially, we take this promise. Then we initiate. This is our condition. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā. According to śāstra, these are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. But these are modern civilization. It is very difficult.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): He tried whiskey. He said, "Come to vodka because vodka's whiskey here," he says, "in this country." I told him, "I don't drink that either." "What do you eat and what do you drink?!" So... He asked me, "What's the matter with you?" "There's nothing wrong with me. (laughter) I am quite healthy, and everything... I am a follower of the Buddha, and our first precept is nonviolence to all mentally conscious living beings. And that's the reason why we follow this." "Ah, you miss the steak don't you?" I said, "I miss nothing. If one wants to have vegetables prepared, there are so many ways of preparing it, healthier, and if one wants taste, it will be even more tasteful." "All right, all right. Bring him as many vegetables. And what do you drink? Beer?" I said, "No. Fruit drinks, if you have." "You order." He gave me a listing. I wanted to pay. He wouldn't allow me to pay, and he paid it. Those people are kind there. And from the time I got, went across, I could talk to anyone without any restriction. I could discuss religion with farmers, factory workers, doctors, lawyers, whom I met in the course of my visit. And they were getting interested. Because people who have not seen materialism, they are very crazy for it. But once they have it, and it is beginning to be a surfeit, and divorces and suicides and other troubles increase, nervous cases, they think, "Oh, now there is a vacuum setting in." So they are interested. I was in every east European country. They never tried to tamper with my books or my talks. Of course, I didn't organize any public talks. I didn't, made no attempt. Then Czechoslovaks, Hungarians, very warm-hearted people. There are yoga classes there. And I met quite a few Hungarians outside who referred to yoga. Then Rumanians, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians. They are friendly people. Swamiji, have you been there in eastern European countries?

Prabhupāda: I have been in Moscow.

Buddhist Monk (1): Moscow? They're friendly people. I will go back again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I know.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes. So it is a world which is shrinking...

Prabhupāda: The government is against any religious...

Buddhist Monk (1): Well, not so strict now as in past because the word "religion" has been used as a narcotic by people. The religious institution was kissing the state, and the state was kissing religion.

Prabhupāda: When I was in airport, the customs clearance, as soon as they saw my book, Bhagavad-gītā, they called police. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

Buddhist Monk (1): Is the only way.

Prabhupāda: So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person... But no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the... Even, even in India during Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.

Buddhist Monk (1): No mass slaughters, no mass slaughters.

Prabhupāda: No. This is from the western world. This is very nice argument, that in the jungle there are carnivorous animals, but they don't maintain slaughterhouse. Neither they attack unless they are hungry. Otherwise, in Africa, there is national...

Haṁsadūta: Park.

Prabhupāda: All the animals are freely rotating.

Buddhist Monk (1): Or they think their life is in danger.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We call temple.

Mother: A temple. And are these married and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are married, there are sannyāsīs, there are brahmacārī, all kinds of people. It is not restricted. You see. So many children. They're having children. We are taking care of them. Everything.

Mother: Now, do you have these temples in India?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Mother: Because I myself haven't been to India, but my parents were there. And the Indian contingent from Dunkirk was billeted in my home in 1940, just before my marriage.

Prabhupāda: Oh. There you see. Oh.

Mother: And we had all the Indians there after Dunkirk waiting for more Indians to come and join them. And we had the Hindus and the Mohammedans and the sweepers, and they all had their own houses. And they recovered from all the war damage, and they went off within about twelve months. They went off in '41, back to...

Prabhupāda: There was some bombing in Calcutta, nothing more.

Mother: Hm. Ah, but these Indians were fighting in France.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another thing.

Mother: Dunkirk.

Prabhupāda: Dunkirk.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Schumacher: And not to get satisfaction out of making idealistic...

Haṁsadūta: Yes, we have such a big place, but why they are not coming? We have temples all over the world, but people are not coming.

Prabhupāda: Because there are restriction.

Schumacher: That is not, that is not... That doesn't meet my point. My point is...

Haṁsadūta: Why not? If they have no place to live, let them come and live here. We are convinced that Kṛṣṇa can provide place for any number of His...

Prabhupāda: Millions.

Haṁsadūta: ...devotees. Any number.

Popworth: I found this the other day, and you'll forgive me making this point, but when I was in discussion, it was impossible for me to make a point without being interrupted so frequently that I failed to make my point at all. Now, can I beg for courtesy for our guest to listen to what he has to say. Then answer him.

Revatīnandana: But... Just that this is interesting, that the solution is there...

Schumacher: But you haven't heard the problem yet.

Revatīnandana: But the problem is that people cannot understand the solution. They cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: But one thing...

Revatīnandana: Why they cannot understand?

Prabhupāda: Mister, yes... I forgot your name.

Popworth: John.

Prabhupāda: John, Mr. John. That we follow strictly the Vedic injunctions, and unless we become God conscious, there cannot be any reformation in this world.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: How can I deny that she's not mother? So how we can support killing of mother?

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, it is a motive. But we think that...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, in India, those who are meat-eaters, they are advised... That is also under restriction. Advised to kill some lower animals like goats, even up to buffaloes. But cow killing is the greatest sin.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, we... I know this. I know this. And this is for us a difficulty, a difficulty...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because the cow is mother.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes...

Prabhupāda: You, you take the milk from the mother...

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: And when she's old, she cannot give you milk, therefore she should be killed?

Cardinal Danielou: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is that very good proposal?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui, oui.

Yogeśvara: He says yes, it is.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: He says: "Yes, it is a good proposition."

Cardinal Danielou: If, if the men are hungry, it is the life of men is more important than the life of cow.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because we are propagating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we ask people to, not to eat meat, any kind.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible. So if the brāhmaṇa and the śūdra combine together, work, then both their lives will be perfect. Here you cannot expect everyone as brāhmaṇa, in this material world. That is not possible. Because in the material world three qualities are working. So one may be brāhmaṇa, another may be kṣatriya, another may be vaiśya, another may... So they should cooperate. Then everyone's life will be perfect. That is the program. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are creating brāhmaṇas. So others, they should cooperate. Then their life will be also perfect. Just like these people are preaching that "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and refrain from sinful activities." So if people take advice from these men, simple thing... Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not difficult. Anyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And no illicit sex life. No... Even one cannot follow these restrictions, if he chants, he will be benefited. But if he chants and follows these restrictive rules, then he will be perfect in this life. And that is not difficulty. Suppose if I do not eat meat. We are not eating meat. We are not dying. We are eating so many nice things, prepared from vegetables, grains, milk. So that is not very important thing, that one has to eat meat and commit sinful life. So anyone can avoid it. They are not smoking, they are not drinking, they are not dying.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

Māyā... Just like if there are criminals, then the police force will be increased, punishment will be increased, so similarly, human beings, they are becoming godless, so by nature there must be punishment. They will not be supplied food. The food supply will be restricted. After all, the food is in the hands of nature. You cannot produce food. You can produce bolts and nuts in the factory, but you cannot eat bolts and nuts. You have to eat rice and grains. So that restriction if there is... (Hindi) The solution is to, back to home, back to Godhead. Otherwise there is no solution. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The stringent laws of māyā is very strong. You cannot surpass them. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise it is not possible. They have tried so many ways and means to solve the problems, but they could not do anything.

Guest (1): Yes, corruption in the politics...

Prabhupāda: Yes, corruption will increase, sinful life increase, cheating. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Misfortune. These things will...

Guest (1): Adulteration of food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even government cannot give nice food to the people, what to speak of nice government. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... You have got the copy?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to become servant of Kṛṣṇa; you are not responsible. Just like government servant, police, and military kills, but he's not responsible. He's not responsible. Their business is killing, soldiers, but they are rewarded: "Oh, thank you very much. Take this title." Just Arjuna, just like Arjuna killed on the order of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa gave him cert..., bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: (BG 4.3) "You are My very dear friend. You are my devotee." So we have to act by the order of the Supreme. Then we are not responsible. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Umāpati: (break) ...I have, I have been reading some of the writings of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and I have come to an understanding from what I have read that there are, there is, there is a thing called tendency and, and... Well, in other words, the Vedas will teach a man if he is incapable of not killing, of, incapable of not killing, if he's addicted to meat-eating, that there are rules whereby he can eat meat and thereby, under prescribed rules found in the Vedas. And thereby, his pious activity, he can raise to a higher level of understanding. And then there are rules that says, "Thou shalt not eat meat," and therefore one is eligible and must follow those restrictions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the beginning...

Umāpati: In the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Just like loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantoḥ. There is tendency for eating meat. Therefore Vedas says that "You can eat meat, but..." Not only Vedas, in other scriptures also. The Jews also say. The Mohammedans also say that you can kill in the synagogue or in the, what is called, mosque, one animal. But not slaughterhouse. No religion prescribes that you open slaughterhouse. No.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: It's always done under...

Prabhupāda: That is restricted. Why it is advised to kill in the synagogue? Why not publicly? That means it is not wanted, but if you go on killing in the mosque, some day you may come to your sense, that you are a rascal; you are becoming responsible. But if you open slaughterhouse, that sense will never come.

Hṛdayānanda: And not to kill the cow?

Prabhupāda: Especially not to kill cow. That animal is very, very important to the human society. According to the Vedic system, those who are meat-eaters, they are recommended to kill some goat or some other animal. Not cow.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now, there's sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when these animals are sacrificed according to śāstric injunctions.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think they are benefited.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are benefited.

Karandhara: Also the animal also has the chance to come back in it's next life and kill the person that killed the animal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: So it's a great risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māṁ saḥ. Mām, mām means "me." Saḥ means "he". "He eats me." That is meat.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Simply they fight and loss of life and money, energy. War must be for the good. If there is some war, it must be for some good. But where is that goodness? The world remains the same; rather, it becomes more worst. Then why fight? But they will fight. Because both of them demons, they will fight. But not for any good result. War means... War is not bad. Just like disease. If somebody is diseased, then he becomes healthy. The whole polluted situation of the body becomes repaired. Just like when you get a boil or dysentery, all the poisons of the body, they become purged out. Then your health becomes nice. That is the law, nature's law. Similarly, war or famine or pestilence, they are meant for purging out all undesirable men. But the demonic principle is so strong that it is not becoming so. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this approach. The Americans have placed in their constitution, "In God we Trust." It should be done very scientifically and philosophically, what is God and what is that trust, not a vague idea. Vague ideas will not help. They will not be able to conquer over the atheistic world. Actually, if there is organized party who believe in God factually, then this demon class of men will always be vanquished. Yes. Just like there was war between the surāsura, demigods and the asuras. God, Viṣṇu, took side of the demigods and came out victorious. But if both of them are demons, why Viṣṇu will take side of anyone of them? "You fight and go to hell." That is going on. (break)

Umāpati: ...I think that we were discussing the political possibilities of putting devotees into office, and we came up with the astounding discovery that we almost represent everything that is against western values. We represent austerity. We represent God consciousness. We represent restriction of sexual freedom, intoxication. All the four regulative principles are almost totally in opposite to western desires.

Prabhupāda: That means western people are all demons.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.

Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Umāpati: Well, they can't do it as...

Karandhara: Not the churches.

Prabhupāda: No, not the churches. Our gṛhasthas will take part. The sannyāsīs will give advice. Directly the gṛhasthas will fight. Gṛhastha, not gṛhastha. There should be an administrative class. That is... Now it is prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. There should be four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Now, it is spoken by God. Therefore it should be rejected? Does it mean? God is for everything. What is this nonsense? And Kṛṣṇa acted as kṣatriya. Therefore He should not be God? Is that very good argument? God is all-inclusive. And religion means God's word, carrying out God's word. That is religion. So how you can make separate?

Karandhara: Well, you can't, but they do.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Religious freedom means everyone is rascal and every religion is rascaldom. So how they can check? They cannot check. Let it be. Go on.

Karandhara: It also says that has restrictions. Religious practices which harm people or are detrimental to the public good, they are checked.

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.

Prabhupāda: That we shall give in the court. "First of all this man is declaring himself as God, cheating. Why he should not be stopped?" Let there be case. This should be done.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. If the constitution is that, that in the name of religion somebody cheats, the government should take action, so here it is being done. So we have to maintain so many departments to fight with these wrongdoers. Why not make a test case that "This man is declaring himself God. How he is God? Let him prove in the court." Why not institute a case?

Umāpati: Actually, the people feel helpless. They feel there is nothing they can do anyway, about anything. That's why they are engaging so much in intoxication. They feel hopeless under this government.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect, that the government itself is imperfect. How they can check?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Because the kṣatriyas were not doing exactly, he twenty-one times massacred them. Finish! And those who, kṣatriyas, fled from India, they came to Europe. So the European means they are coming from the kṣatriya descendant, but they have forgotten their own culture. Indo-aryan. (break) ...strong, then there is no doubt he will be able to control all over the world. That's a fact. But we must keep ourself spiritually strong. Āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was behaving in His life and that He was teaching. (break) ...behave like spiritual man. Then you can teach. If you don't behave, then how you can teach? (break) ...was brought here. It is more important than the Ganges. (break) One side, there is unrestricted sex life, and other side, stop population. But they cannot take this restricted sex life. Only fault! So if you restrict your sex life that "I shall not beget more than one child or two child," then where is the question of this abortion and contra...? But they, that they cannot. They will have unrestricted sex life; at the same time, they will check overpopulation.

Prajāpati: They trust the doctors, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the medical men.

Prabhupāda: Whatever... His fault is that "I can restrict. I will not have sex life unless it is needed for begetting children."

Prajāpati: The psychologists say it is unhealthy to go without sex life. The men these people trust, the psychologists, psychiatrists, say it is unhealthy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, we know. But there is a process. Just like brahmacārī process is there, sannyāsī process is there. So if you adopt the process, you can restrict.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Viṣṇujana: In this country they have the venereal disease. One out of ten men is suffering gonorrhea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Long ago one professor, medical professor, he said, he was Englishman—that in our country, 75% students are suffering from venereal disease. Colonel Megor (?). Yes. Colonel Megor. There must be venereal disease because sex life is so cheap. There must be venereal disease. And venereal disease, once infected, it brings so many other diseases, one after another, one after another. The cancer is also due to that. Madness. Yes. And the Vedic civilization knew it. Therefore first restriction: sex. Brahmacārī. First beginning, brahmacārī. No sex life. You see? Just to save. This venereal disease is mentioned in the Āyur-veda. It is called phiraṅgāmaya. Phiraṅga means "white Europeans." It is diseased... And medical science also says that it was begun from dog. The girls, they have sex life with dog and there is the beginning of venereal disease.

Viṣṇujana: Yes, from animal. Ass, dog, cow.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning. So the girl becomes infected, and she distributes to all men who have sex life with... This is the beginning of sex life. And in Mexico I have heard that they regularly make theatrical demonstration, how a woman is getting sex with ass. Is it?

Bahulāśva: Yes. That is in Tijuana.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Brahmānanda told me. People have become so degraded. They make regular show, how sex life can be enjoyed with animals.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (3): But Swamiji, sexual intercourse after marriage is against law of Manu?

Prabhupāda: No, that is also... There is law. You cannot have sexual intercourse with wife as you like, no. That is also illicit sex. Then... When the woman is in menstrual period, after five days, you can have once. As soon as she is pregnant, no more sexual intercourse. This is human being. Not that like animal. Animals also, they have got restrictions. You see? The lions, they have sexual intercourse once in life. Once in life. Brahmacārī. You see? So as soon as you violate the laws, then you are animal. Because law is meant for man. Just like "Keep to the right" and "left" in the road. It is meant for human being, not for the dogs. Dog, if he keeps right or left, it is not under law. But if you keep your car instead of left to the right, then you are criminal. (pause) So which way we have to go?... Human life begins when he understands what is dharma. That is human life, beginning. Aushikha (?) (Hindi) Jaiye aur Hindu religion hai, Muslim religion hai, Christian religion hai, Buddhist religion hai, Jewish religion hai. The religion must be there. But when we give up this religious process, then there is no more human life; it is animal life. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is also very good, good in this sense that they do not eat without restriction. There is some restriction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To sacrifice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That if you want to eat meat and chicken, then you first of all sacrifice before that deity. So at least they'll be restricted from eating meat purchased from slaughterhouse. But this rascal civilization, one side they're advertising "Stop cruelty to animals," another side they're opening unrestricted slaughterhouse. Just see. One side they're allowing marriage of woman every week, another side contraceptive. Just see their contradiction. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...there is animal sacrifice in the church. Is there any such pre...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jews, they have got.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That was one of the things that Jesus was against.

Prabhupāda: Shocked. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That the Jews were sacrificing animals in the temple. (pause)

Nitāi: Excuse me. (Microphone ruffles)

Prabhupāda: Don't come very near.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: What he kills.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.

Hṛdayānanda: But never the cow.

Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is this school for women also, or just for men?

Prabhupāda: For men. Women should automatically learn how to cook, how to cleanse home.

Satsvarūpa: So they don't attend varṇāśrama college.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Varṇāśrama college especially meant for the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Those who are not fit for education, they are śūdras. That's all. Or those who are reluctant to take education-śūdra means. That's all. They should assist the higher class.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why you said...? Don't you see...?

Dr. Patel: Listen, you are arguing in such a way that there will be a flash between us two.

Prabhupāda: No, no. People should be trained up in such a way that in spite of (indistinct) you should not be agitated. That is, that is.

Guest (1): Our religion... (break) and that these boys... (break)

Dr. Patel: Sādhus, not sannyāsīs. (break)

Prabhupāda: In European countries, in European countries, if you restrict in that way, that will be fanaticism.

Guest (1): That is what I am telling you. It should not be done immediately like that. (break) ...it must be trained, and it will take a long time.

Prabhupāda: Why Europe? Nowadays, here also. That is not possible.

Guest (1): It is not... It is not possible.

Prabhupāda: It is simply utopian, utopian.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's... You see? He does not know what is the scheme of Vedas. You cannot stop meat-eating all of a sudden. But you can raise some restriction. These rascals who are meat-eaters, if you say, "Don't eat meat," he'll never do that. Therefore, "Yes, you can eat meat, just after offering to the goddess Kālī," and in this way, that means, once in the month, that means restricted. Restricted. So, Vedas means they're taking gradually, not that, like a foolish, "You don't do this." You cannot do that. That is Vedic authority. The Vedas are meant for everyone. Those who are meat-eaters, you cannot stop them all of a sudden. Similarly, drunkards. You cannot stop them, drunkards, "Don't drink." They'll not hear you. Therefore restriction. "Yes, you can drink, after offering to the devī," and that means restriction. So what is the meaning of marriage? Because sex like the cats and dogs, stop it. Just get married. In this way, otherwise, you may say "No marriage." Just like, the other day these sannyāsīs come, because saw woman was sitting, they'll not enter. But I saw their teeth was so unclean, and the dress was never washed. But they have got this restriction, no seeing of woman.

Indian man (3): (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: You cannot deny the authority of Vedas. Suppose you are following ahiṁsā, you cannot say that "State should not anymore hang anybody." That you cannot say. You follow.

Indian man (3): Shall I read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Well, Chamberlain may tried, might have tried to stop the war, but he could not stop the cause of the war. So far we know that the two wars started by Germany on account of Britain. So far I have studied. The German people did not like the Britishers to occupy the trade all over the world. And wherever they went to trade, they were restricting. I know this fact. In India the Britishers monopolized all trade, and they would not allow German goods to come in. So that was the cause of the war. The German knew that the Britishers, they are purchasing from Germany and stamping it "Made in London" and selling in India at high price. And when the Germans go there, they are not allowed to enter. This is the cause of the war. The Germans still, they do not like to speak in English. They are so envious. So Chamberlain might have tried to stop war, but his nation created the cause of the war. Why there should be... That was the demand, that free trade. Germans, in the, what is called, peace negotiation, their demand was free trade. Everyone... And that is very good. Why trade should be... This is unnatural. Let there be free trade. General public, they want best thing at good price, at cheap price. So if Japan and Germany can supply goods, necessary goods, at cheaper price, why they should be restricted? Let the people take advantage of it.

Richard Webster: Well, I don't think they are restricted now.

Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound. But when the people are too much agitated, they declare war with India. The whole attention is... And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan. So this is going on by the politicians. They are creating situation because they are not honest, they are not clean. And a clean man cannot become politician. Mr. Lloyd George said that "consistency by the politician is the qualification of an ass."

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But there are so many human beings also dying out of hunger. Is it to be recommended that they should be killed? There are many human being also; they are also skeletons. They have no sufficient food. So if you think that the cows are skeletons for want of food, you supply them food. Why you are restricting? If... The Americans, they are throwing tons of food in the water. Why they do not send to India for feeding the skeleton cows? What the cows have done? They are also living entity. Why you are thinking of human beings, not of the cows?

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: He says for Protestants especially, there is a feeling that to think that we can become purified of our sins by following some formulary, that is a kind of false pride, that actually to become free...

Prabhupāda: Then why Christ recommend, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this. Thou shall not..."? They are all false thing? Now let us talk of knowledge. We have talked so many outside knowledge. What is the real knowledge? The real knowledge is that everything is the property of God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). No land belongs either to the Americans or to the Swiss people or to the Indian people or to German people. No. Everything belongs to God. And all living entities are the sons of God. So everything produced out of God's land, either on the land or in the sky or anywhere, it is God's property, and all the sons, they have the right to share. So there is no scarcity in the God's kingdom. Simply due to our mismanagement we have created so much trouble. If we accept God as the center and all living entities sons of God, then we can actually live very peacefully in God consciousness. Therefore this is the recommendation, how we can live very peacefully, all of us, both men and animal and everyone. That is said here.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: That is God.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Bhagavān: He thinks relationship with anything means God.

Prabhupāda: Anything?

Bhagavān: Yes, anything.

Priest: Anything, anybody. When you are here, when I am (indistinct) relationship with you, then God is. You understand? But I cannot restrict God to a person with whom I could enter...

Prabhupāda: But in your Bible you say, "O Father." Relation is father and son. Why do you say in the Bible "O Father, give us our daily bread"? So that you make relation with God as father.

Priest: But...

Prabhupāda: But not anything, but father. As the father gives the maintenance, bread, so you go to God in that relationship, "Father, give us our daily bread." Just like the child asks the father, "Father, give me something to eat." So this is clear relationship father and son.

French Man: No, it's a very complicated system, the system for all these things in the (indistinct) of this country. There are two main conceptions—the Oriental conception of the Orthodox Church and the Western...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of any particular church. We are just trying to understand the word relation. If you go to particular church, then another will give another church, another will give another church. But we are trying to understand the word relationship. So in the Bible it is clearly said, "O Father," so the relation is father and son.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat fast enough, they're eating so much beef.

Prabhupāda: No, fast, fast. Fast means you have to eat the cow's flesh. So how you can make it fast? The cows' number are the same. So it will remain the same. Simply you wait for the natural death. Where is the restriction? You have got a limited number of cows. Either you wait for the death, or you kill it at once, the number of cows are the same. So we simply request you that you don't kill them. Wait for the natural death and take it. What is the wrong? The number of cows is the same. You cannot increase it. Increase or decrease, the number of cows is there. So we simply request you that so long they're alive, let us take it's milk, and give nice foodstuff to the human society.

Yogeśvara: If they don't kill it, they'll be even more cows.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: If they don't kill the cow, then they will have even more meat, because then the cow will have more time to reproduce, more calves. If they don't kill the cow right away.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What does he mean by logic?

Yogeśvara: He says that means that it's not something that's very evident to me.

Prabhupāda: It may not be evident to him, but why not others? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says one thing is that he feels kind of glad that it's more or less a question of opinion because if it was Absolute Truth, then it would be too restricting for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, it is Absolute Truth. But there are different ways of understanding Absolute Truth. He is taking only one way, direct perception. (French)

Yogeśvara: He said, if it were an absolute truth, it would be evident to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone is not advanced in knowledge. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the question remains because there are other, very spiritually advanced men who don't accept that idea.

Prabhupāda: No, somebody may be known as spiritually advanced according to the society, but he may not be. So another thing is that what is the way of understanding the Absolute Truth. Let him explain. What is the standard way of understanding Absolute Truth? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he doesn't have an answer in that kind of a context.

Church Representative: No context, problematic.

Prabhupāda: It may be problematic to some, but Absolute Truth can be understood by śruti, authoritative hearing.

Karandhara: When the Absolute reveals Himself, then... Śruti means the absolute knowledge from the Absolute, from God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the Absolute Truth is known by the absolute method which is called śruti, hearing from the Absolute. Absolute cannot be imagined or speculated.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And eating each other without complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they have problem. They are killing only. The human society, they should be advanced so much that even the birds, they have nothing to kill for their eating. They have got sufficient food. And we are advanced human being. We are killing for eating instead of God giving us so much food, enough food. And they are still puffed up with advanced civilization. They have not even human feeling. These poor cows, they are giving us milk, the most nutritious food, and we can prepare so many nice nutritious foodstuff. So let them live. And if I want to eat at all, let it die. Then we shall eat. Why kill it? So they have no common sense. And they are leading the sinful life; still, they are very much proud of their civilization. And they are suffering periodical wars, war number one, war number two, war number three. This number will increase. Not only... Without war, thousands of children are being killed within the womb. This is going on. If you kill, then you be killed. This is nature's reaction. You will be killed within the womb. You will never see the sunlight. Again you die, again enter another womb, and again be killed. This has increased in modern society. Even the father, mother does not want to see the child living: "Kill him." And a few days, few years after, we shall kill each other. So they are not afraid of any sinful life. You see? The nature will not tolerate. Kṛṣṇa will not tolerate. God will not tolerate, because God claims, "I am the father of everyone." So suppose if a very intelligent son kills another son of the father, he is not intelligent, will the father be very happy? A father is father for the intelligent son and the fool son. But if the intelligent son thinks that "The fool son is useless. Let me kill him," the father will not be satisfied. So God is the supreme father, and He will never tolerate that "Because you are intelligent, you are allowed to kill another unintelligent living being." No. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) "Whatever foodstuff I have given to you, you eat then, live and be God conscious." The animals, they are not coming to eat your foodstuff, your fruits. They are, rather, producing milk not for drinking themselves. They are giving you, and you have no obligation? The milk produced by the cows, it is taken by the human being. They do not drink it. So they are giving milk. And after death, you are taking their skin. So every way they are serving. The stool, cowdung, we have stacked here. I have seen. There also fertilizer. In so many ways they are giving you service, and you are killing the poor animal. What is the human civilization? Therefore Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal killing first. When there was too much animal killing, the incarnation of Lord Buddha was there to stop animal killing. In Buddhism there is no animal killing. Although they are now killing animals, but originally Buddha religion means non-violence. Also Lord Christ also said, "Thou shalt not kill." And Kṛṣṇa says, ahiṁsā. So in no religion unnecessary killing of animals is allowed. Even in Mohammedans, they are also... Kurvāni. Kurvāni means they can kill animals once in a year in the Mosque. So everywhere animal killing is restricted.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: The main principle is, to understand spiritual subject matter, one must be sinless. You find that verse,

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ

janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām

te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā

bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ

(BG 7.28)

(break) ...ess, more we can understand spiritual matters. Therefore among our students, the four principles... (break) Explain. Yes, are prohibited.

Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)

Hṛdayānanda: He says if to be sinless is not something more profound than simply restricting the body from some things, if there's not a more profound aspect of sinlessness.

Prabhupāda: The body is consider... Just like if you have got high fever, you cannot act your brain.

Hṛdayānanda: You cannot?

Prabhupāda: Act your brain. Similarly, this is also like fever, sinful fever, so you cannot act your brain for understanding higher spiritual matters.

Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying, "What is sin, then?"

Prabhupāda: That sin you have explained. These are the four principles of sinful life. This can be avoided. Just like these European, American boys. They were also addicted to these sinful activities, but now they have given up, and they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. Material life means sinful life. Therefore we have to act materially under regulation. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he has to live under the direction of the physician. Otherwise his sufferings will continue.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that every practical things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You ask any question and the solution is there.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): They say that they say the same thing of the Bible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You follow Bible. That is also nice. But you do not follow. That is the difficulty.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in this world we're all so limited, and we're like prisoners, and the more laws that we submit to, the more we become slaves.

Prabhupāda: No, no more law. You simply follow the law given in the Bible, as you are speaking of Bible. The Bible says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are violating? (break) ...if you don't follow, then you are not spiritualist; you are fool. You remain again in this, then ignorance.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said, "In others words, is all humanity a fool then?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Otherwise why there is Bible?

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said that it's impossible for, to follow... that you said we have to approach a perfect person, but that means we have to accept so many restrictions and this is actually impossible. It cannot be done.

Prabhupāda: Then it is impossible for you to become a perfect man.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Why should the knowledge be so limited?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not limited; it is unlimited. But to come to the unlimited, you have to cut down your limited knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said he noticed that there are only men here. Does that mean that women cannot become transcendental?

Prabhupāda: Why not? There are so many women. Knowledge is not restricted to men. It is open for everyone. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

(BG 9.32)

(break) Everyone is open. Just like university. University is not restricted to a certain class. It is open for everyone. Everyone can go, take the knowledge. And similarly, prison house is open for everyone. (laughter) Now you make your choice whether you go to university or prison house.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can one cut down his limited knowledge if he's habituated to material life?

Prabhupāda: Well, habit can be changed. Just like nobody is habituated smoking from the very beginning of his life, but by association he learns smoking. And again, by association he can give it up. These boys, American, European boys, they were habituated so many bad things. Now they have given up.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can we know what is good and what is bad? How can we define them?

Prabhupāda: When you come to the good, you will understand what is good. When you come to the bad, you understand what is bad.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Bernard Manischewitz: This is on experience, on the experience that they have.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is experience. You will find many healthy persons in India subsisting only on these foodstuffs, and they have good brain also. India is still, I think, eighty percent people are strictly vegetarian. Not to speak of the higher class, but the lower class also. The higher class, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Vaiśya is via media, between higher and lower. And the śūdras and less that the śūdras, caṇḍālas, they are lower class. So meat-eating is current among these lower class of men, śūdras and caṇḍālas. The caṇḍālas, they have no discrimination, they eat everything, and śūdras, they eat meat, but under restriction. Some of them do not; some of them do, but under restriction, and that is restricted with the goat animal. Less than the śūdras-caṇḍālas, pañcama, fifth grade—they eat everything. Especially they eat—because cow protection in India is very strict—so these caṇḍālas, fifth grade men, they eat generally pigs. Pigs they eat. Outside the village, they have their residential quarters, and they fry live pigs. And they make... Not daily; sometimes. But they eat pigs, and amongst them, there is a class—they are cobblers—they eat this cows' flesh when the animal is dead, not living and we'll kill.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Devotee: No, that is a little spoon for your tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So cow is very important animal. So from religious point of view, or from economic point of view, cows are not allowed, in the Vedic civilization, to be killed. The meat-eaters, they are everywhere, all over the world, but in India meat-eating is allowed—the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead. And the śūdra class, they also eat meat restrictively, goats. That is only under certain restriction, means sacrifice. The goat is sacrificed in the Goddess Kali's temple, and they eat. This is very dangerous, this sacrifice. It is very dangerous. It creates all sinful men. In the Christian religion also, it is said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are killing. So what kind of Christians they are?

Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse? The goats?

Prabhupāda: No.

Bernard Manischewitz: Like a sacrifice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Sacrifice means restriction. One meaning of sacrifice is: if you believe in the śāstra, the animal is going to get next life as a human being. Because he is being sacrificed under Vedic rituals, so he is given promotion immediately, to human life. So he is not loser. His body being sacrificed before the deity, he gets the opportunity of getting a human life immediately, for which he had to wait perhaps thousands and thousands of years, because the evolution will go. Of course, after animal life the next life is human life. So anyway, he is given the concession to get a human form of body immediately after this body is destroyed, and with the right that he has the right to kill the man who has killed him. That mantra is cited, that "He was sacrificing your life, so you get immediately human form of body, and you can kill this man." So this is the Vedic rituals. Another animal sacrifice is there just to make experiment of the Vedic mantra. An animal is sacrificed in the altar, and he is given again life, rejuvenated life. An old cow sacrificed, and he gets a youth, young (body). If the animal comes out alive, then it is to be considered that the Vedic mantras are being recited correctly. Not to kill and eat, no, no, that is not the purpose. Just like in laboratories, they make some experiment on the animal, similarly this is like that. The animal is sacrificed, and he is rejuvenated in young life. Old life is sacrificed, and he gets a new body. Then it is to be understood that in this ritualistic ceremony the mantras are chanted correctly. That is their power. But because in this age such learned brāhmaṇas are not available, therefore it is stopped. No more. There is a verse in the Purāṇas,

aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ

sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam

devareṇa sutotpattiṁ

kalau pañca vivarjayet

(CC Adi 17.164)

In this age of Kali, five things should be avoided: one is performing sacrifice by offering cows; performing sacrifice by offering horse; and oblation offering to the forefathers with meat; and then to get child by the husband's younger brother. Maybe it was practiced formerly. According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother. Devareṇa. That is also now not allowed. So these five things are not allowed in this age, Kali-yuga: sacrifice offering cows, sacrifice offering horse, sannyāsa—renouncing family life—sannyāsa order, offering oblations with meat to the forefathers, and begetting children through the husband's younger... These five items are forbidden.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's not a religion.

Prabhupāda: No, if you want to study something, and suppose you are sometimes from India, the same subject he's going to study in foreign country, farther enlightenment, it is also not necessary that to study a subject matter more and more, we have to remain in the same jurisdiction. If I am actually anxious to know more and more, it doesn't matter whether I get the knowledge from Mohammedan or Hindu or Christian, it doesn't matter. Knowledge is knowledge. When a student goes from one country to another to get farther enlightenment on a subject matter, he does not think that "I'll have to learn it from here, from my university." For knowledge, progress of knowledge, you can go to any university. Because knowledge must be scientific. It is not restricted within the jurisdiction of a particular university. So, sun we are seeing, everyone, the sun, getting heat and light but if anyone is interested (to) know how the heat is coming, how the light is coming, what is the situation of the sun globe, whether there are living entities or not. They're also subject matter. So if you can get enlightenment of the sun, we should not restrict ourselves that we have to study with this jurisdiction of my university, or my country, or my society. If the knowledge is there, we should be prepared to go forward. Mm.

Lady: If we believe in God as the Supreme Being... I have a question. Why do we wish to God, to Kṛṣṇa movement in chanting worldly name because the name of God is something which is eternal. If Kṛṣ...

Prabhupāda: Hold on, then, what is the name of God?

Lady: Right, in Christianity there is write: "In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But what is the name of God?

Lady: In Islamic religion, they say...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the name of God? Islam is the system of religion, but what is the name of God?

Lady: The name of God is something which is always with God, constantly with God...

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know that. You do not know that.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The president should be restricted that "You cannot spend more than this amount without sanction of GBC."

Acyutānanda: When we were in Bombay, there was an organization man, that one gentleman who was discussing with Bhagavān about the general organization of the Society, that you suggested we talk to him...

Prabhupāda: So many, they came. They simply talk.

Acyutānanda: There was one who...

Prabhupāda: They do not help.

Acyutānanda: No, when we were talking to him, he said that every temple should have its budget, and over that budget, the GBC should sanction. They have two accounts.

Prabhupāda: (Hums) Hmm...

Acyutānanda: Prabhupāda... (break) Mahāṁsa Mahārāja got the customs duty waiver for the buses from Germany... (break) What about the bullock carts?

Prabhupāda: Bullock cart is very good for India.

Acyutānanda: But that's for the small villages. The big towns, they're very far apart.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm. Well, you are not supposed to go to the small villages. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee: New York blackout.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "No business. Come on. Let us enjoy sex." That's all. This is their civilization. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Most abominable sex life—this is civilization.

Nalinī-kānta: They say that in the human form of life we can ejoy sex life better than the cats and the dogs.

Prabhupāda: That is imagination. They enjoy without any restriction, and you have to make so many arrangement. You require apartment, nice bed, nice this, so many. So where is the better facility? You have to work for it. They haven't got to work. They get in the streets sex life.

Brahmānanda: But now, they're also saying that this is good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: To have sex in the street.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Brahmānanda: Without any rules. (?)

Prabhupāda: They are coming to that point, the hippies. Openly they are having sex life, on the street, on the beach. (Break)

Madhudviṣa: We may enjoy while we are here now. If we think about the future, then that means we are taking our mind off the present.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then close all these universities, school, colleges. Close.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā, that aviruddho-kāmo 'smi. "Sense gratification which is not against religious principles, that sense gratification I am," Kṛṣṇa says. We do not stop sense gratification, but we want to regulate sense gratification like a gentleman, not like hogs and dogs. That is human civilization. Sense gratification like hogs and dogs, not required. Sense gratification... People are following that. Although they are so degraded, still, they have not sanctioned as yet to have openly sense gratification on the street like hogs and dogs. That is regulated. That's still going on. But because the civilization is gliding down to animalism, they don't want this restriction. That is the hippies' protest, that, "Why this convention required? Let us enjoy like hogs and dogs." That is advancement.

Viṣṇujana: The scientists are helping them do that also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Viṣṇujana: The scientists are helping them to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: What shall we... Why should we enjoy sense gratification like gentlemen?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: Why should a person...

Prabhupāda: Why do you do it? That is the, already there. Why don't you have sense gratification on the street?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they're already having. People are already having.

Prabhupāda: Not having very freely, not very freely.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...not within the Vedic culture. Vedic culture means this varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas, four āśrama. And those who are lower than the śūdras, they are not in the Vedic culture. They are called caṇḍālas. Among these caṇḍālas, the mleccha, yavana, are also there. There are. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So they are also caṇḍālas, fifth status. Fourth status, up to śūdra, and then all fifth status. So amongst the fifth status, there are all meat-eaters, without any restriction. And there are dog-eaters. So amongst them, the fifth status, one who eats dog, he is considered most abominable.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would a Vedic king try to prohibit such persons from eating...

Prabhupāda: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...animals of any kind? Would a Vedic king try to prohibit the fifth-class men from eating the animals?

Prabhupāda: No. Animals, you can eat if you like. But there was no slaughterhouse. If you like, you can kill your own animal and eat. That was open. But the state did not maintain any slaughterhouse. And the third-class, fourth-class men, they would eat. So simply by saying that "You don't eat," they will not accept that. They're free, but the state would not maintain the slaughterhouse. At the present moment also, if the slaughterhouse are closed, then immediately seventy-five-percent meat-eating will be stopped. They maintain slaughterhouse. That is the most sinful activity.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...the dogs also got intelligence, the hogs also got intelligence. The intelligence which you are claiming, that is all discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is said yes they are living, but you don't see that breathing. So then the vastra, the bellow, it is breathing. "Waa, waa, waa, waa." It is breathing in the (indistinct) and it is (indistinct), the vastra. It is breathing (indistinct). Here they are living but you don't see they have any sex enjoyment (indistinct). The dogs and hogs, they are having very good sex enjoyment, even on the street, without any restriction, and begetting three dozen children in a year. And they give credit to whom?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apart from science, we have very nice philosophy and literature, studying art.

Prabhupāda: That is real science. Science we admit, but your science is not. You are trying to go against the laws of nature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about our art and literature which just shows that...

Prabhupāda: No. That is different department so far science is concerned. But pure science is useless, simply useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we acknowledge that, suppose we acknowledge that, but we say that still our cultural advancements are very great. The students say that...

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That's a fact.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Mesmerized.

Brahmānanda: And there was talk that you had said that those four stillborn children were incarnations of Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, she was think that by cheating this man I am becoming successful. Then she, without any restriction, she began to cheat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And because he was Mahārāja so he became, she became Mahārānī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still he's being fooled by her. Those birds I think are the ones from the cage. Because they're being fed they're all, agree to be...

Prabhupāda: ...put in cage. (indistinct) free. They can go away, but no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like, the human beings are like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśodānandana: Do you think that... As the Kali-yuga progresses the people are getting smaller. Does this mean that Kṛṣṇa and His associates were much taller in stature than we are now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah, Vālmīki. There were many. There were, are many. Nārada. Nārada was a son of a maidservant, śūdra. He had no father. So dāsī-putra. And he became Nārada. So where is the restriction? Similarly, in the Jabalopaniṣad, Satyakāma Jabala, he was also a prostitute's son. And he approached Gautama Muni, "You kindly make me your disciple." Gautama Muni said, "What you are?" "I am my mother's son, that's all." "Then who is your father?" "That I do not know." "Ask your mother." So mother replied, "My dear son, I do not know who is your father." And he came and said to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know who is my father." Then Gautama Muni said, "Yes, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall..." Because speaking truth. So unless you are a son of a brāhmaṇa, you cannot speak such secret truth. Nobody will say that "I do not know who is my father." It is social scandal even up to date. But he plainly said that "My mother does not know who is my father." So immediately Gautama Muni accepted him as brāhmaṇa: "You are telling the truth." Satya śamaḥ damaḥ. Because it is first qualification. So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard śāstra and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the swamis went there. They lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them? That "Our Hindu religion is very great, very nice, and whatever you like, you can do. It doesn't matter." Then where is the training? Now little effect is there because I am training them. As soon as one comes to me for becoming disciple, I place before him that "You have to give up all these habits." When he agrees, then I accept him. And therefore I have got some selected, trained-up men. So there must be this training college, institution, and proper training according to the śāstra. Then there is possibility of changing the whole situation.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: She has written one article in our Back to Godhead. I am quoting from that.

Brahmānanda: "...in ignorance performed at an improper time and place to an unworthy person like a gambler or a drunkard, or contemptuously, without respect. Charity in passion, performed to get something in return with a desire for fruitive results or in a grudging mood. Charity in goodness, performed as a duty and at the proper time and place to a worthy person and with no expectation of material returns. And charity in pure goodness, performed only to satisfy the Supreme Lord. In the śāstras charity in passion and ignorance is completely rejected, although people do it unconsciously. Charity in goodness only is recommended. Point Eight: Proper and beneficial use of the income and property of the institutions and how far the policies of the government and the exercise of its authority in its behalf are just and proper. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī was the chief minister of the government of Nawab Hussein Shah. He gave us a good example how to divide the property in the society. Fifty percent of the income must be spent for Kṛṣṇa, twenty-five percent of the income should be spent for family, and twenty-five percent should be kept in reserve for emergency expenditure. Spending fifty percent of the income for Kṛṣṇa means for the whole society by encouraging the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Nine: The role of manava-dharma pariṣat. I think that if the manava-dharma pariṣat takes these suggestions of mine very seriously, certainly it will be of great benefit to the Indians and the whole world. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on on this principle, and if the pariṣat inaugurated by you cooperates with us, certainly we can render a very great service to the human society. So far manava-dharma is concerned, it should not be restricted within the Indian borders, because human beings are in all parts of the world. Point Ten: The manava-dharma mission, its constitution and program. Therefore the constitution of manava-dharma or the institution of varṇāśrama must be interesting for the whole world, and it should be exemplified by practical demonstration. The immediate program should be village organization as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels, and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society. If food grains are produced in an organized way, human society can produce ten times what they are presently producing. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed,

annād-bhavanti bhūtāni

parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ

yajñād bhavati parjanyo

yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ

(BG 3.14)

I hope you will give your serious consideration to my suggestions, and I am prepared to cooperate with you to my best capacity if you think my suggestions are right."

Prabhupāda: This suggestion is to you also. (chuckles) And if you can do these things organizedly, certainly it will be beneficial to the whole human society.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...although there is full arrangement for producing food, and because we are rogues and demons, nature will restrict supply. (break) But this machine will be stopped as soon as the increase of population of rogues and demons. The machine is there already. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. The background is Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), under His order. He says, "Don't supply here." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. The supply is stopped. That they do not know. They are making scientific research. What scientific research? Bring water. There is so much water. Bring that water, distill it and throw. Are you such great scientist? And by God's arrangement the sun is there, evaporates the water from the sea, and it becomes purified without any salt, and it is extravagantly thrown on the land. And the same water again flowing down through the river in the sea, the water is reserved. Nothing is lost.

Brahmānanda: The scientists have been able to artificially take the salt out of the ocean water to make it fresh for irrigation, but it is very, very costly. It requires a great deal of energy.

Prabhupāda: That is their defect. They theorize, but when it is practically going to be done, "No money. Get taxes." They will levy tax, and the tax will be divided amongst themselves, that's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially now all the governments all over the world are broke. They have no money.

Prabhupāda: There will be very, very big chaos, this godless civilization. And it is distinctly said, "There will be no grain, no sugar, no milk." These things will be stopped. Eat your sons and daughter. You are very much fond of eating meat. Eat your son. They will do that. I think they are doing now. You know that?

Guest: In Africa, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not Africa.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on—the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That's it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin's literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.

Paramahaṁsa: Just like they had some people who came to Russia to start some Buddhist thing, and then they were sent away to some camp, concentration camp.

Prabhupāda: Never seen again.

Paramahaṁsa: No one has seen them.

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their... It is the most fallen country. No freedom. No freedom at all. Horrible country.

Gaṇeśa: Why don't the people revolt if they're so unhappy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are revolting, but they are now so much suppressed they cannot... Sometimes there is revolt. Sometimes there is upheaval.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Did you follow? So the only remedy is that you should perform yajña. And this yajña is, in this age, yajña, performance of yajña, is very costly affair. At the present moment, things are not available. So you should perform yajña. If you don't perform yajña, then nature will restrict supply and put so many impediments. That yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ... (BG 3.14). If you regularly perform yajña, then there will be sufficient rainfall. There is sufficient water. Just like all around there is water. There is no scarcity of water. But you cannot touch it without God's intervention. The same water will be converted into cloud and will be distributed on the land, and the water again glide down to the reservoir of water. This is nature's way. But if you do not perform yajña, this machine will not work to get water from the sea, convert into cloud, and then distribute. This will be restricted.

Justin Murphy: But we must all perform yajña?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to perform yajña. And that yajña, at the present moment, is very easy, to... Saṅkīrtanaiḥ yajñaiḥ. It is recommended that we have to recognize the authority of the Lord, and in this age, simply by performing saṅkīrtana-yajña, He will be satisfied. Saṅkīrtana-yajña means to glorify the Lord in so many ways. We glorify the Lord His form, His activities, His name, His quality. So it is not difficult job. We can sit together, family-wise, community-wise, or in office, in factory. We can sit down together and glorify the Lord. Is it very difficult job?

Justin Murphy: You make it sound very, very simple of course.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then why don't you accept it?

Justin Murphy: Well, I for one might. But...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not talking about you.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: He says, "Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?" Sometimes when a patient is giving up alcohol or drugs, he goes through various symptoms which are painful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That should be... But unless... Find out this, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Rasa-varjaṁ raso 'py asya paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).

Devotee (2): "The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Devotee (2): Purport? "Unless one is transcendentally situated, it is not possible to cease from sense enjoyment. The process of restriction from sense enjoyment by rules and regulations is something like restricting a diseased person from certain types of edibles. The patient, however, neither likes such restriction, nor loses his taste for edibles. Similarly, sense restriction by some spiritual process like aṣṭāṅga-yoga, in the matter of yama, niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, dhāraṇā, dhyāna, etc., is recommended for less intelligent persons who have no better knowledge. But one who has tasted the beauty of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa in the course of his advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness no longer has a taste for dead material things. Therefore, restrictions are there for the less intelligent neophytes in the spiritual advancement of life, but such restrictions are only good if one actually has a taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one is actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, he automatically loses his taste for pale things."

Guest (1): What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if I might ask?

Prabhupāda: Tell him.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Advancing.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see, foolishness. But at least somewhere there is no equal right in the lavatory. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greeting someone) I have received your letter, you can see me. (break) (Conversation continues in the car) This too much intermingling of woman means the path of hell. Therefore the restriction is that only the married couple can freely mix, not others. Mahat-sevāṁ dvār... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They are not interested associating with devotees. They are interested associating with man or woman, that's all. Woman is interested to associate with man, and man is interested to associate with woman. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Therefore the civilization is becoming hellish. It is already said in the śāstra. One should associate with spiritually advanced men, but that is not being done. Now the woman is hankering after man, man is hankering after woman. Yoṣit saṅg... Yoṣit means for sense gratification. Tamo-dvāram. This is the path of darkness.

Just like the priest was saying, "Oh, sex is very nice. Why you stop?" Just see. And he is a priest. Why the Roman Catholics they are ordered not to marry? Why? Roman Catholic are supposed... the fathers and priests, they should remain unmarried, is it not?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. They remain celibate. He was saying that it is a personal preference.

Devotee: They have no general rule. It's just that if you want to be celibate, then that's very nice, but if you want to have sex life...

Prabhupāda: Then why they have recommended this, unless there is some benefit?

Śrutakīrti: Well, that knowledge has been lost through the years. A few hundred years ago, many of the celibates were also vegetarian, but all that has changed.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But it would be very difficult for the people who start out with us. Would be possible with the kids that start out with us.

Prabhupāda: No, they will live, just like they are living. They are coming from the same group. But they are now saintly. It is a question of training them. I have no facility. Whatever I have done, by personal endeavor and their cooperation. Neither your government, I mean the Western government, they helped me, neither my government helped me, although we are struggling to make class of men ideal. They appreciate, but they do not give us... Now, just like we have purchased this house by our endeavor, with great difficulty, because we have no income. We write our books, then we sell, we get some income. So somehow or other we expand. But no government is helping us. They are increasing brothels, drinking. At least in India there was no drinking propaganda. Now the government is making that. They are opening wine shop. India, even in the British period, drinking was very, very restricted. Very, very restricted. First of all socially if anyone drinks, he is rejected as gentleman.

A drunkard was never respected. Similarly meat-eaters. He was considered third-class man. In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Unless they enjoy with Kṛṣṇa, it is impossible.

Devotee: They are not finding it so pleasurable as young men?

Prabhupāda: And how we are finding pleasure in chanting and dancing? It is a practice.

Devotee: No, I mean sex life.

Prabhupāda: Sex life we are not stopping. But sex life allowed only to the gṛhasthas, householder, restricted. Not illicit sex. We are not stopping sex life. Sex life is required. But under rules. And if you enjoy illicit sex, then the whole society is spoiled. You make the innocent girls spoiled. And they have no other business than prostitution. That means you put the society into chaotic condition. The young girls they become cheap, you enjoy, then you become irresponsible. You have no family encumbrances, and you do not know how to maintain the family. That is the position. What is this welfare? Because the young boys enjoy the young girls and they get children, the government has to support.

Devotee: That's the cause of this whole problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the welfare department is for that purpose only.

Devotee: And he's the head of the department.

Prabhupāda: He also does the same thing. He does not know how to cure it.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: But that hog also enjoys. Then what is the difference between you and hog? The hog enjoys unrestrictedly. The cats and dogs also enjoy. So what is the benefit of becoming human being, civilized man? That enjoyment is there in the hog's life in a better way. You have got some discrimination, "Here is my sister, here is my mother, here is my daughter," but there is no such distinction. You enjoy life and become a hog, and that is waiting for you, next life. There is no law of raping amongst the hogs and dogs. They can capture any female. But in the human society why there is restriction? So hogs and dogs are better enjoying sex life. You become hog and dog. Why civilized man?

Kuruśreṣṭha: When we tell them that, they think, "Oh, that's very nice."

Prabhupāda: You are waiting for getting that life. Wait a few years more. You will get that life. Yes.

Brahmatīrtha: One scientist recently did a study on mosquitoes. They found out that all mosquitoes do is have sex and eat. And he was lamenting, he said, "Oh, these mosquitoes..."

Prabhupāda: Sex and eat.

Brahmatīrtha: That's all they do. He was amazed that they have so much sex life, mosquitoes. So then the scientist he was lamenting. He was thinking, "Oh, these mosquitoes, they probably do not enjoy the sex life." And he sounded as if he wished he was a mosquito to find out.

Prabhupāda: Yes, mosquito, flies, I have seen. Even the sparrows. Sex life is the center of happiness in this material world. In all forms of life. That is the only.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as... Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). The butter and..., means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says "No. There is possibility." Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: "They should not be kept, should not sit together." Then people may say, "This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted." So the next line says, "No," vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, "it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted." Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a... Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: "The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar."

Jagadīśa: Lord Brahmā was attracted...

Prabhupāda: Yes, to his daughter. Just see. There is the example. Lord Śiva was attracted by the Mohinī-mūrti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Even if I see a wooden woman, I become attracted." (laughs) He is giving this from his..., to teach us that it is possible. So we shall go now? (break) (in car:) ...takes my advice, then I can keep her on the post and she can do greatest, service to India immediately. Immediately whole public will be her support.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The solution is there.

Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.

Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)

Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is going on. (end)

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, where is your freedom? You are kicked out like football from one life to another. Where is your freedom, rascal? That they do not know. Therefore they are śūdras. He is being kicked out like football from this pole to that pole, and still he is thinking, "I am free."

Brahmānanda: They think reformation is a restriction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reformation means restriction. Civilized means restriction. Aryan means restriction. That is civilized life. Unrestricted life means cats and dogs. Laws are meant for restriction, and they are meant for the human society, not for the cats and dogs. Why the legislative assembly is there? Why the cars are going right or left? It is meant for the civilized person, not for the cats and dogs. So civilization means restriction. A dog can have sex life on the street, but you cannot have. That is restriction because you are civilized. Civilized means restriction. The more you restrict, more you become civilized. Otherwise you remain animal.

Brahmānanda: They say that these things are simply external.

Prabhupāda: External, but you are animal. (laughs) You cannot understand. You see. Mūḍha. "External." Why external? You violate the laws of nature; immediately you'll be punished. Why external? You infect some disease; you'll be immediately punished. Why external? It is the law of nature. You must have to follow; otherwise you'll be punished. You have got experience. If you touch fire... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you touch fire, then it must burn. Why? Can you restrict the fire? Similarly, laws of nature is so strict, as soon as you violate... Laws of nature means God's nature.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That means you have no idea what is divine life, and still, you are going to Divine Life Society.

Indian man: Well, he should teach... Well, the basics were no meat-eating, no intoxicants, and also no gambling and no...

Prabhupāda: They say? They have? They say so? They have restriction?

Indian man: Well, no cheating, no gambling and no cheating. He's got restrictions of...

Prabhupāda: Do you follow these restrictions?

Indian man: Well, up to a certain extent I do.

Prabhupāda: What is that extent?

Indian man: Well, I don't eat meat, I don't gamble, I don't take any kind of intoxicants, but I drink tea, you know.

Prabhupāda: So that divine life is generally for all the Hindus. That is custom. They may learn here something else, but generally, Hindus, they do not take meat. So, anything else? No. Simply this restriction.

Indian man: Well, it's very similar to our movement, you know, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: But Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is different in this sense, that we have got Kṛṣṇa. Do they have Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man: Well, only thing I could tell you, they teach us to pray to Kālī, Durgā, Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: Then? Then it is finished. Divine life is finished.

Indian man: But, you see, at that time there was nothing else for us, Swamijī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): You get attracted by a lot of side attractions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the education is so defective that even university students, if I say that "You are going to be a dog," they say, "What is the harm if I become?" They say like that. The education is so defective, they don't mind to become a dog. They think, "It is a facility to become a dog because I can have sex on the street without any restrictions."

Indian man (3): Yes. I mean they have lost their self-respect for that.

Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...

Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God. But if you do not know God, then what is the value of your knowledge?

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are increasing sex life, and actually the advancement of knowledge should be decreasing sex life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know what is knowledge. The knowledge means sex life. That is their knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means how to enjoy sex life, how to take shelter of abortion, child-killing, and then contraceptive method—whole thing on the basis of sex life. That's all. They do not know except these things. They know there is botheration after sex life, but they cannot give it up. Therefore all these arrangements: take contraceptive, kill child, and what... That means the whole thing is based on sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Is that pleasure? They think it is pleasure to unite the urinals. (laughter) And this is pleasure, a standard of pleasure most third class, fourth class. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ tuccham: very abominable. Tuccham, the śāstra says, "most abominable." And they take it pleasure, and they make arrangement for this. When the dog enjoys sex life... Therefore they are allowed to do it on the street. People can see it. Is that very nice scene? The same thing is done by the human being, and they are taking: "This is all, everything." This is basic principle of their happiness. That's all. Mohinī, mohinī. This is captivation. And nature has made the woman's face so attractive, beautiful, their breast, their hips, attractive, their sound, talking, singing, all very attractive, walking, and now they are dressing naked. They are showing simply the vagina, all other parts of the body clothed. This is going on. Whole thing is based on sex life, and that is tuccham, most abominable. Prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. It will take three hundred times births to understand that this sex life is abominable. Therefore it is bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Not that immediately, simply by hearing our Bhagavad-gita lecture, they will give it up. It will take many, many births to understand. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. In the Vedic system, sex life is allowed only for begetting children. Therefore they are... Restriction. Allowed, but with great restriction under religious rules and regulation and so many things, garbhādāna. Then the first principle is, even it is taken for begetting child, it is not secret.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kamān. He satis... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says, bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Now, you have to grow trees, plants and vegetables for your eating. So that you cannot have without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives all the seeds. Bijo 'ham. You cannot manufacture the seed. He gives the seed. You work little, sow it and get the result. But without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa, how can you get the seed? Then where is your food? No food. You must take... "God, give us our daily bread." Kṛṣṇa gives the seeds, and you sow it and get the fruit or grains. Then you can exist. Even if you are animal-eater, the animal must also come from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot manufacture the animal. That is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. Bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The animal is produced by father and mother, but the seed is given in the semina by Kṛṣṇa. And then animal is produced. So how you can non-cooperate Kṛṣṇa? You have to cooperate. Otherwise... (man yelling in background) What is that? (laughter) Huh? They are criticizing us? No.

Brahmānanda: He's imitating the birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) Just like this tendency was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. In the forest the two brothers and other cowherds boys, they were also imitating. They were flying. The bird is flying; they were also flying like this. And coming to the monkey, coming to the peacock and imitating the..., like this. These are description in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Mahāṁsa: So I wrote back a letter to the chief minister requesting him that he has made a very good step and he should try and restrict all the four sinful activities.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Did he reply?

Mahāṁsa: No, he never replied.

Prabhupāda: This animal civilization, go-kharaḥ, is going as civilization—drinking, meat-eating, gambling. This is less than animal civili... Animals do not play gambling, at least. They have illicit sex, but no gambling.

Yaśomatī-nandana: They cannot have intoxication either.

Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes, drinking.

Prabhupāda: That sugar, they say that the ants they are very intoxicants; therefore they like sugar. Sugar is intoxication. Wine is made from sugar. Yes.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. Molasses.

Prabhupāda: Molasses. Ferment molasses with sulphuric acid and then distill. It is wine, liquor. People are producing unnecessary quantity of sugarcane; therefore the drinking habit is increasing. Because from sugar the molasses is the by-product, so they have to use. They are finding out what is next industry, and the next industry is liquor, wine. So when they produce more wine, then they must sell, and the people must drink. This is going on, one after another. And in Hawaii, Mauritius and in so many other places we see they have produced unnecessary quantity of sugarcane. And then molasses... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. And then wine, and they must be sold.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: You take that system and put it in a place where you can grow all these things. Then it will be nice.

Prabhupāda: But if you bring communism, you will not be able to grow. You are condemned immediately. Nature will restrict supply. Which way?

Tejās: Left, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Harikeśa: China is doing very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Why not Russia?

Harikeśa: Well, China has more facility to grow.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of Russian philosophy if he has no facility?

Harikeśa: Well, actually it's not Russian philosophy. Chinese philosophy. I just read a report from French reporters that went into China. They say China is growing...

Prabhupāda: Then it is not accident. There must be some cause. Why do you say accident? Can you say "Accidentally Chinese are better situated"? Why don't you accidentally you become better situated? Then there must be controller.

Harikeśa: Mao Tse Tung.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Mao Tse Tung.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, if one is better situated and another is not, there must be some management above that.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And you cannot hold gold also. That is illegal. Somehow or other, even if you secure gold, you cannot keep it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's that restriction in India, I think.

Ambarīṣa: Now in the United States you can buy gold. They made it legal.

Harikeśa: But limited quantity.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul and they are "Awake." Just see these rascals. They have no preliminary knowledge even, and they are writing books, Awake.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a very big press in New York, Jehovah Witness, Brooklyn Bridge.

Harikeśa: They say the world is going to end next year.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Harikeśa: Then they also say if it doesn't end next year, that it's Biblically correct to say that it may end in three years after that.

Prabhupāda: And then again seven years. Then again ten years. They are so awakened. So rascals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can ask them to sell their press to us because the world is going to end.

Prabhupāda: No, give us free.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing a wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.

Dr. Patel: I mean the Vaiṣṇavas, sir, sādhus, they are not expected to look at the pictures of women.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not... Then how Caitanya Mahāprabhu allowed the woman to stand on His shoulder?

Dr. Patel: He is, was a mahaprabhu. Not for us...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is the criterion, that if one is perfect devotee, then it is all right. And so long he is not or she is not perfect devotee, then there is restriction.

Dr. Patel: In the sādhana stage.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...it is the sādhana, completely sādhana (Hindi), then he is, everything is... Sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

Prabhupāda: For kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.

Dr. Patel: Sarve sameṣu bhūteṣu. We are not sarve sama as yet.

Prabhupāda: So it depends on the condition.