Expressions researched:
"in this material world. Anyone has relative position"
|"relative world"
|"relative worlds"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban: John Nordheimer: Prabhupāda, it's been thirty-five years since you were given this mission by your spiritual master to bring the word of Kṛṣṇa to the West. A lot has happened in the world over that period of time. The world has...
Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
You cannot say, "all are blind." Then there is no question of blind and with men eyes. As soon as you accept blind man, you must accept the other side, man with eyes. This is relative world.
Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. What is the benefit? If I am blind and if there are hundreds of blind men, "All right, come on, I shall..."
Mr. Wadell: I think we are all partially blind.
Prabhupāda: No, then there is no question of knowledge. Somebody must be with eyes. He can give knowledge. That is our proposition. As soon as you say blind, there must be somebody with eyes. It is a relative term. It is a relative term. You cannot say, "all are blind." Then there is no question of blind and with men eyes. As soon as you accept blind man, you must accept the other side, man with eyes.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, I see. You mean just as you distinguish from white, black because it is different...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is relative world.
No, that you cannot find here in this material world. Anyone has relative position. Everyone will find somebody is greater than him, somebody is lower than him.
Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the conception of "Supreme"? That you have to define. What is the conception of Supreme? How do we accept here in this world, a person supreme? What is the conception of supreme? No...
Prajāpati: No one equal to or greater than.
Prabhupāda: No, that you cannot find here in this material world. Anyone has relative position. Everyone will find somebody is greater than him, somebody is lower than him. He's not absolute, nobody. A rough estimate of supremacy: if one man has got, is very rich, he's considered great. If he has got influence, if he has got bodily strength, bodily beauty, wisdom, or renunciation... These are the six items for calculating a man's greatness. Therefore when you speak, "God, the Supreme," He must possess all these things. That is the definition given by Parāśara Muni. The other day we were discussing. Somebody said, "This is all imagination." Why imagination? Who was telling?
We distinguish, here in this material world, "This is love and this is animosity." But God's animosity and God's love—the same thing. That is acintya. Here in the relative world we cannot adjust how animosity and love can be the same, one and the same. That is inconceivable by us.
Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles: Prajāpati: In some Western theological literature, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it refers to that "God is love." In what sense...
Prabhupāda: No, I have already explained. What is not God? That is already explained. Anything you bring, He is, God is there. Without God, nothing can exist. So why this or that? Anything, that is God. But He's absolute. His love and His enmity, that is the same thing. We distinguish, here in this material world, "This is love and this is animosity." But God's animosity and God's love—the same thing. That is acintya. Here in the relative world we cannot adjust how animosity and love can be the same, one and the same. That is acintya, inconceivable by us. But God's love... Just like God's love for the gopīs and God's enmity for Kaṁsa, they're reaching the same result. Both of them are going to the spiritual world. Just like Pūtanā and Mother Yaśodā. Pūtanā came to poison Kṛṣṇa, and Mother Yaśodā is always anxious to save Kṛṣṇa, naughty child. He may not be hurt. So two opposite things. But both of them got the same result. Kṛṣṇa thought that "I have sucked her breast, so she is My mother. She must go to the same destination as Yaśodā Mā." Just see. That is His enmity. And that is absolute. In our relative world, we can see so many differences in the dealings of God, but He is absolute, one. That is conception of God. Advaita. Advaita. Advaita means absolute. And... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Again advayam. You may conceive God as impersonal or localized Paramātmā or Bhagavān—the same thing. But due to our, I mean to say, meager knowledge, we are thinking, somebody's thinking that His personality is greater than impersonality and somebody's thinking impersonality's greater than personality. This is our conception. He's the same. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Not different. Not different. But one who has reached to the conception of personality, he has got all the others. That is the difference. So you write. You are theologician. You write about God so that people may understand how our students are enlightened. Other so-called foolish theologicians may learn from you. You take the ideas and explain.
We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor.
Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles: Karandhara: Well, created means to be born or to start.
Prabhupāda: Yes, born. The child is created. There was no child.
Karandhara: But the energy which makes up this body was always present.
Prabhupāda: That we also say, by the formation, when it takes place, it is created. Just like you prepare food. Why do you say, "prepare"? What is the meaning of "prepare"? The ingredients are there, but why do you say, "prepare food"? You cannot say... Huh? What is that?
Hṛdayānanda: Before you prepare it, that particular preparation...
Prabhupāda: That we say. The energy was...
Karandhara: That is just a conventional term in relationship to you. That is just relative to you, relative to your relationship with that food.
Prabhupāda: This is called impersonalism...
Karandhara: But the food was always there.
Prabhupāda: ...that... We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor. Why does he not..., "No, it is māyā. Why I shall be troubled with the toothache?" Why does he go to the doctor? That is the defect of Māyāvāda philosophy. They are being affected by the change, but still, they will say, "There is no change. It is all the same."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Not this, "This is good, this is bad." That is relative world. You'll find everywhere something good.
Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay: Dr. Patel: If nothing but God exists, then bad thing is also God and good thing is also God. That that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore God realization is real good thing.
Dr. Patel: Real good thing.
Prabhupāda: Not this, "This is good, this is bad." That is relative world. You'll find everywhere something good.
No, we are not absolute. We, when we are situated in the absolute platform, then we are absolute. Now we are in the relative world.
Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome: O'Grady: O.K. Now, is the Absolute internal or external?
Prabhupāda: Absolute has no internal or external. That is Absolute. If there is internal and external, it is not Absolute.
O'Grady: I don't mean in time, and I don't mean in space. I mean in time in the sense that one is born and one dies, etc., that is, in one's own time, one's own Absolute, ultimately the Absolute that one finds for oneself.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not absolute. We, when we are situated in the absolute platform, then we are absolute. Now we are in the relative world. Here there is absolutism, but the sense is not so elevated to understand the absolutism. So so long we are under the control of time, there is no question of becoming absolute.
God, His name, His form, His pastimes, His abode, His paraphernalia, everything is God, because absolute. First of all you should understand this Absolute Truth. Just like here in the relative world the name of a person is different from the person. But in the absolute world the name and the person the same.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany: Vedavyāsa: He said that in the Bible it is said that our aim should be to know the father.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Not only the aim but the life consists in this, to know the father, God, by this... (indistinct)
Professor Durckheim: That is exactly what you say, that real life, real eternal life, means nothing but to recognize the father in the son.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real business. And we have created so many unnecessary, superfluous business. We have set aside the real business, to know the father. And that is the mistake of this civilization. (German) (break)
Haṁsadūta: Professor Durckheim's question was: "Very simply, what is our way or what is our method to realize the highest truth, the absolute truth?" What is our process?
Prabhupāda: The simplest method is to associate with the Father, or the Absolute Truth. By association. This association can be possible. God, His name, His form, His pastimes, His abode, His paraphernalia, everything is God, because absolute. First of all you should understand this Absolute Truth. Just like here in the relative world the name of a person is different from the person. But in the absolute world the name and the person the same. So we are teaching or preaching this, that you chant the holy name of God, you associate immediately with God. And if you associate immediately with God then gradually you become Godly. The example is, just like you put one iron rod in the fire it becomes warm, warmer, warmer and, at last, red-hot. When it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod, it is fire. Similarly, if you simply associate with God then gradually you become Godly or or all the qualities of God. Then you understand God and your life becomes perfect.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Change is of the material world, in the spiritual world there is no change, absolute. In the relative world there is change. So our definition of religion is little different from the worldly definition. Our definition... "Our" means there should be the real definition: religion means the laws which are given by God.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta: Prabhupāda: Just like Christian religion, what it is teaching?
Professor Fenton: Christian? It is the humanization of man, to trust in Lord Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And why trust Lord Jesus Christ?
Professor Fenton: Because he is the root to reality, the truth.
Prabhupāda: That means he's son of God, is it not?
Professor Fenton: Yes, but I personally am not that orthodox. That is the orthodox teaching.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Teaching must be orthodox, otherwise what is the value? If the teaching changes, that is not very good.
Professor Fenton: Well, it may be that it changed in the early history of Christianity through Greek influence on its Jewish background.
Prabhupāda: It is changing now also, they are so... Change is of the material world, in the spiritual world there is no change, absolute. In the relative world there is change. So our definition of religion is little different from the worldly definition. Our definition... "Our" means there should be the real definition: religion means the laws which are given by God.
No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran: Young man: Well, since the Old Testament, part of the Old Testament, is very similar to the Koran, I presume the creation of Adam, that bit, is also taken from the Old Testament. But He is projected as a great judge really, a supreme judge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He must be the supreme judge because He is Supreme Being. So He is not only... Supreme judge means supreme knowledge.
Young man: Yes. Somehow in modern religion they very much emphasize on the fact that He judges. And I could never accept that idea for example, that the Supreme Being judges, because judging is a low activity. It's a... Spiritual people don't judge. So how come...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual...?
Young man: Leader.
Prabhupāda: They do not judge?
Young man: That's what I thought.
Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.
He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.
Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth: Paramahaṁsa: But when I'm a dog I wouldn't want to become a human being either.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this means happiness in ignorance. That is ass. He's bearing two tons of load, and if he is thinking "I am happy," it is nice. Therefore they are called ass. Accepting distress as happiness. Therefore they are called ass. That is the difference between ass and human being.
Amogha: I saw some asses in the university yesterday. Asses and monkeys. One professor was working so hard he was almost crying, because he had so many exams to mark. So great burden on his mind.
Paramahaṁsa: Isn't it, then, if one is happy, that's all that counts? If his happiness is also relative. So if I am a monkey...
Prabhupāda: No. There is absolute happiness. You do not know that. We are meant for that, because we are living beings. But on account of your ass quality you do not like to understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti.
Amogha: My parents used to tell me that nothing can be absolutely true, because everything is really finer shades of grey.
Prabhupāda: He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.
Amogha: They think that people who say there is Absolute Truth have not observed the other thoughts of other people, so they haven't seen everything.
Prabhupāda: What is that other thought? We know everyone's thought. We know everyone's thought.
All right, do that. Madman's program. That is Vivekananda, "Everything is all right." "Everything is all right"—then why do you preach? You stop your preaching. Everything is all right. What is the use of saying that "This is good; this is bad"? Everything is all right.
Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth: Amogha: Just like now we have come to the point where the different doctors are thinking very seriously of having this mercy killing passed in the courts. When a person becomes too much diseased, actually he would be happier if he was dead, so why not kill him?
Prabhupāda: That is contradictory. He will kill somebody, and he will give life somebody. That is... There is no standard. Everything is all right. Then why do you bother that "This is good"? The same "good" is bad for others.
Paramahaṁsa: That's why we have psychiatrists, to decide... They analyze the person very carefully and see what is good for him. And completely on a relative basis they give a prescription.
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you think what is good for you? Why you are so busy for the good of others?
Śrutakīrti: Well that's this particular person's happiness, is seeing that others are happy.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The same happiness is distress for others. Then what is the use, bothering yourself, "This is happiness; this is distress"?
Śrutakīrti: Because that is what makes me happy.
Amogha: We understand it is relative. Therefore we're working in a relative world.
Prabhupāda: All right, do that. Madman's program. That is Vivekananda, "Everything is all right." "Everything is all right"—then why do you preach? You stop your preaching. Everything is all right. What is the use of saying that "This is good; this is bad"? Everything is all right.
Everything, these rascal scientists consider in relation, relatively. But relative world means every living being is relatively existing with a condition. And he is thinking only his relative condition. That is their foolishness. You cannot fly in the sky; a small bird will fly. That is called relative world. For his condition, it is different from you.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu: Prabhupāda: Yes, the timiṅgila, they are as big as this mountain.
Guru kṛpā: I wouldn't want to meet one of those.
Prabhupāda: You can go, and you will find in his belly. (break) You think simply small fishes are there? As the ocean is big, similarly, very, very big fishes are there. (break) ...up. Remain deep in the water. (break)
Guru kṛpā: A very dark condition.
Prabhupāda: Why dark condition? They are living very happily.
Guru kṛpā: It's dark in the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: No, not dark. They have got their light. Everywhere arrangement is there. Otherwise how they can live?
Guru kṛpā: It's also very cold in the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Cold for you, (laughter) not for them (laughs). Everything, these rascal scientists consider in relation, relatively. But relative world means every living being is relatively existing with a condition. And he is thinking only his relative condition. That is their foolishness. You cannot fly in the sky; a small bird will fly. That is called relative world. For his condition, it is different from you.
We say, "This is light"—means there is something as darkness. This is relative world. The Professor Einstein said relativity. This is relative: as soon as there is darkness, there must be light. Otherwise, how you understand light and darkness? So unless there is eternity, how do you bring this word, "temporary"?
Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles: Bahulāśva: This Professor Stahl, he was saying that his experience is that everything is changing and temporary. So therefore he was thinking that that is the nature of all things, that they are temporary.
Prabhupāda: Temporary, this (indistinct). Why this "temporary" word has come into existence unless there is the opposite, "eternal"? Why do you use this word, "temporary"? When you say, "It is fraud," and there must be something as honesty. Otherwise, why this "fraud" has come? Hm? We say, "This is light"—means there is something as darkness. This is relative world. The Professor Einstein said relativity. This is relative: as soon as there is darkness, there must be light. Otherwise, how you understand light and darkness? So unless there is eternity, how do you bring this word, "temporary"? What is their answer?
Bahulāśva: They have no answer.
Prabhupāda: Unless there is father, there is no meaning of the word son. Unless there is husband, there is no meaning of the word wife. This is the relative world, and they are accepting this relativity. So how they can deny? As soon as you "temporary" say, you must accept there is eternity.
Yes. Everything is relative. Therefore it is called relative world.
Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver: Prabhupāda: How is that? You can see the universe; that does not mean that you can become universe. You can see the sky; that does not mean you become as big as sky. (break) ...small, minute shining sparks, minute combination. So they are also shining, but that does not mean they can become as good, as big, as the sun. (break) ...the defect of the Māyāvāda philosophy. They think of themselves too much. Therefore they remain here, always in māyā. (break) ...abuddhayaḥ, means the intelligence is not purified. They are called aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ or viśuddha (SB 10.2.32), "without purification of knowledge." (break) ...kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmād-aṅghrayaḥ. They fall down. (break) ...this symbol?
Harikeśa: Some fountain.
Prabhupāda: No, there are some children, symbolic.
Brahmānanda: They're looking at the water. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...written, "Danger." Now they are going to the safety. What is danger, there is that safety. Now, what is danger and what is safety?
Brahmānanda: That means it is relative.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is relative. Therefore it is called relative world. (break)
Brahmānanda: It's according to the body. Because the duck has a particular body, the water for him is safety, and because we have this particular body, it is dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
A small dwarf man, a pigmy, he'll say, "Oh, it is a big tree." So it is all relative. What is called? Relative world? Higher and lower, this is all relativity.
Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Everywhere someone is conscious. There is no vacancy. So this is useless talking, fool's talk.
Hṛdayānanda: In the outer space there is no consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Who says? The fools say. There are consciousness. There are so many birds flying from one planet...
Hṛdayānanda: Higher up.
Prabhupāda: Higher means it is higher for you because you are so dwarf. You are so dwarfed, you'll find that this tree is very big tree. You see? A small dwarf man, a pigmy, he'll say, "Oh, it is a big tree." So it is all relative. What is called? Relative world? Higher and lower, this is all relativity. You are so low that you see a tiny thing very high. It is due to your lowerness. Where there is no tree, these trees will be considered: "Oh, very high tree." So your scientists and your appreciator, all, they are like tiny dwarfs. What do they know about the universal affair? That is their fault. They are so small... That, the same example, Dr. Frog, calculating Atlantic Ocean. This is the fault. They do not consider their position. Just like there are thousands of ants. We can immediately kill them. And they are thinking they are very big, the ants, that "We are very busy. We are very big." So these rascals' position is like that. If the devatās in higher planets like, all the population of this material, this earth, they can kill like this-finish. Just like we can kill the ants.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in the Sixth Canto, second part, I haven't read it yet, but I saw a picture of a big demon who was fighting, and everyone else was just like little ants.
The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Just like a lawyer is he who follows the standard law. If a lawyer says that "I have manufactured my own laws," so who will hear him? And what will be the use of becoming lawyer? No. You have to follow the standard law. Then you are a lawyer. And a big lawyer means who knows the standard laws very well. Similarly, guru is Kṛṣṇa and guru is necessary. But one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then he will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Kṛṣṇa is not present. But Kṛṣṇa is not present, how you can say? Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā. How you can say that.... Kṛṣṇa, absolute, means the Supreme Lord is not different from His words also. The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing, if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical. Anyone can perceive.
Correspondence
1947 to 1965 Correspondence
You must know that you are in the relative world which is called by the sages as dual- and nothing is absolute here.
Letter to Mahatma Gandhi -- Cawnpore 12 July, 1947: You must know that you are in the relative world which is called by the sages as Dvaita i.e. dual- and nothing is absolute here. Your Ahimsa is always followed by Himsa as the light is followed by darkness or the father is followed by the son. Nothing is absolute truth in this dual world. You did not know this neither you ever cared to know this from the right sources and therefore all your attempts to create unity were followed by disunity and Ahimsa. Ahimsa was followed by Himsa.
1970 Correspondence
The truth within this material world is relative. The Absolute Truth is outside the relative world. Just like when a child is born, he is relative—he is born by his father.
Letter to Robert, Karen -- Los Angeles 19 April, 1970: The truth within this material world is relative. The Absolute Truth is outside the relative world. Just like when a child is born, he is relative—he is born by his father. Then you go on researching and you will find that his father is also born of his father and so on. In this way if we go on searching out the Absolute Truth, you will find Him, the Supreme Person, not imperson. Just like the child is a person, therefore the agent or the truth which begot the child is taken without any hesitation as a person. Therefore the Absolute Truth cannot be imperson—that is a fact.
