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Recent (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes. (Hindi)

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
(CC Adi 17.31)

(Hindi) ...Nectar of Instruction. I have recently published. (Hindi) There were no book for sale?

Indian man (4): Book was not in sale yesterday.

Mahamsa: That book is not available in India, Prabhupāda.

Acyutānanda: It's a brand new book.

Prabhupāda: No, no, other books, they are not...

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Indian man (5): He will come every day.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (5): Mostly he approaching every member.

Prabhupāda: No, recently we have published very important book, Nectar of Instruction. For common man it is very nice. (break) Yesterday's lecture you liked?

Indian men: Yes. (Hindi) (break)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...sleep on the streets. They've arranged this housing, it is very minimal. So what many of these slumdwellers do when people are living on the streets is they come here, and they go back and live on the streets, but they rent out the apartment that the government has given them and they keep the money. They go back and live on the streets.

Indian man (1): This houses? This is all rented by the government and given free of charge to the poor to clear the slums.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
kālena sarvatra gabhīra raṁhasā
(SB 1.5.18)

(Hindi) So three classes of men are there: upper class, middle class. You cannot change it. It is laws of nature.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Yes. Whenever some scientist does something, the whole nation of that scientist takes the credit. That is another idea. They say, "We made the pen," or something. Everyone in India takes the credit.

Prabhupāda: That is animalism. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. "I belong to some particular body, and he belongs to the same body or same nation. Therefore we become..." Instead of "I," we become "we."

Acyutānanda: Recently there was an atomic scientist whose all major education was in America and Europe, and he won a Nobel Prize award...

Prabhupāda: That is the tendency everywhere. The Britishers.... You go to the Parliament and Westminster Abbey. They have kept all the statues of Sir Isaac Newton and this Churchill, this.... Mean, they want to show that "It is only our nation who has produced all these intelligent persons."

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes, yes. From "I-ness" to "we-ness."

Prabhupāda: (break) This is basis of Gītā. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Learn from the real person, tattva-darśinaḥ, who has seen, who has actual experience of the truth. Learn from him. The Gītā never recommends that you imagine and make your theories. Never said. That is the Vedic culture. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). This is the way. Take lesson from Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then you will get experience. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is the use of imagining?

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one has ever heard his name.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not that no one has heard, but they are working for the last eighty-five years. What they have done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They only have about four or five temples, centers in America. There is no Deity established in the temples, only some big...

Prabhupāda: Now recently they have established one temple of Rāmakrishna in Vṛndāvana. Nobody goes there. Nobody goes there.

Yaśodānandana: It is simply a hospital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the Deity?

Indian man: They have taken up social work, isn't it? Everybody. Swamijī, I am now reminded. A few weeks back I was invited to Raj Bhavan. I went as an invitee of an invitee. And that Madhuben Shah(?) began to wax eloquent because he happened to be the president of the world union. And they said, "Oh, we want to integrate the entire world, and the emotion and gradation, all those things." And they invited the views of Aryans, of twenty-five persons. All spoke. I did not speak. I kept quiet. Somebody said, "Here is a person who really knows." I said, "I am sick of this talk.... (break) And why should we have another organization for the same purpose?" Then I said, "But anyhow, I don't know. If Kṛṣṇa..." Nowadays I use that...

Prabhupāda: (break) There is Theosophical Society?

Yaśodānandana: Yes, all over the world, international.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...started from here?

Indian man: It was started. Madras center and there in America.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...come from the other side. (break) ...registering this association, some friend suggested, "Why don't you make it 'God consciousness'?" And "No, 'Kṛṣṇa conscious.' If I bring God consciousness, they will bring so many gods."

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Indian man (2): The government says they are giving employment by opening these mica mines and so many things. The government says they are giving employment and work to many people.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So you like to be employed?

Acyutānanda: In one mine recently there was a big cave-in, and how many people...? Three hundred men were killed.

Prabhupāda: Mica mine?

Acyutānanda: Coal. In...

Prabhupāda: In Bihar.

Acyutānanda: Bihar.

Indian man (2): (break) In Bangalore, when I was meeting one person and encouraging to become a member, he was telling that among the Durgā worships, one of the Durgā forms called Śānti Dūrga is under the mode of goodness worship. I just want some clarification.

Acyutānanda: Sattva-guṇa is also māyā. Somebody asked, "There is a Maṅgala-gaurī." So I said, "That means there must be some other Gaurīs who are not maṅgala. Why they have specified that this Gaurī is Maṅgala-gaurī. Then other Gaurīs are not maṅgala."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...saṁhitā we understand, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya. The pralaya is amaṅgala, and sṛṣṭi is maṅgala. Sthiti is also maṅgala. So Gaurī has got three functions, Durgā.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And it is so damp that in the trees you will see, what is called? (Bengali) Moss, moss, moss. Yes.

Indian man (1): Gathered moss.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In every tree you will find. They do not get sufficient sunshine. (Bengali) We have got very nice lawn, but I cannot enjoy it. Hardly one day or two. You cannot sit there. It is cold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And damp. It's about five after seven now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) ...last month?

Prabhupāda: No, they gave it, account up to December 12, week ending on December 12.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was a six-day period when they sold 650,000 pieces of literature, six days.

Prabhupāda: Recently we have published abridged edition of Bhagavad-gītā, 350,000... Three hundred and fifty hundred thousand.

Guḍākeśa: Three and a half lakhs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Already, though, over half of it is sold out. In one month we've sold over half the printing.

Indian man (4): Even among Indians, it is so popular, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Indian man (4): Your Bhagavad-gītā. All the Indians, in meeting they all come. Two or three times I have met. Some of them say, "You have got more? You have got more Bhagavad-gītā?"

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Why they look inquisitive? No commentary. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Cent percent cheater beginning from the top. They have lost their own culture, Vedic civilization, and they are not competent to earn properly. They must be cheater. Beg, borrow, steal. They have lost their own culture; therefore they have no one honest. Formerly Indians were so honest that after one man's death, his son comes... Even we have seen it in childhood. "Sir, my father took from you the five thousand rupees. So now he is dead, so I have come to pay you." So he says, "I never seen my account that your father has taken five thousand rupees from me. I cannot take it." This is India. One man is offering him five thousand, that "We are debtor to you. Please take it." And he says, "No, I don't find in my account that your father took five thousand. I cannot take it." And now they are cheating. This is India's position.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: As you are always saying, Prabhupāda, these people are not becoming purified. This one man who Jagadīśa mentioned, he's the most famous Christian preacher practically in the Western world. Now he's becoming older, about sixty. Recently they asked him that "If you could live your life again, would you live the same life or a different life?" So he said, "I am very sorry because I spent too much of my time preaching. I should have spent more time with my family."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he actually said that?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. At the end of life this is his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's the foremost Christian preacher in the world right now, Prabhupāda.

Hṛdayānanda: He said, "I accepted too many invitations to go preach. I should have spent time with my family."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will make him more popular, and they'll say he's more religious.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...already left to preach.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (break) Eh? Dhunvanti, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.(?) This is Kṛṣṇa. In one second He can make it purified. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). Simply surrender.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: Communism has been openly attacked as failure.

Prabhupāda: Communism?

Acyutānanda: Yes, many places.

Prabhupāda: It is a failure.

Guru-kṛpā: There was a recent issue of Newsweek.

Acyutānanda: I... I think, only in the world, that is the real country where people are really starving, in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia, yes.

Acyutānanda: Now they're having drought, and trying to get wheat from a freezing cold land. And they have their favorite class, also. The Party members are only a fraction of the population, and they get all the benefits.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: So they have their caste system also. It was created out of envy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: All right. (break) ...He taught them to steal then: "Mother is not giving. You steal." That picture is going on. (break) Juhu is so small?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes, we should have made it bigger.

Rāmeśvara: The size of the cart is restricted.

Pañcadraviḍa: What year is that?

Rāmeśvara: Recently.

Revatīnandana: It was this past year or the year before last when we had it. Two years ago it was full.

Prabhupāda: They want to stop it. That is their... (break) A new temple?

Jayatīrtha: Old temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) Who was talking about casting?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was in Australia, Adelaide. Cittahārī.

Prabhupāda: This is very nice. This mūrti should be standard.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Geneva.

Prabhupāda: Yes... No, anywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, and drop it(?) like this.

Prabhupāda: They are casting. (break) ...this title.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg.

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes there are professors of English, all different departments, appreciating.

Devotee (1): This man was selected to the World Council of Churches for the representative of Hinduism in their large meeting, and he just recently did a review on your Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: What he says?

Satsvarūpa: "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Indian classic par excellence on bhakti-yoga, attributed to Vyāsa, is one of the most important and influential religio-philosophical works within the Vedic tradition. Thanks to the devoted and scholarly endeavors of Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the entire work of twelve cantos will be available in a superb English edition for the benefit of the English-reading peoples. In his impeccable style the author presents each verse in original Sanskrit, followed by roman transliteration, English equivalents, translation, and elaborate commentary. The lucid and cogent exegesis brings into relief the theory and practice of Bhāgavata philosophy in relation to contemporary man and his problems of life. I have read the first volume containing First Canto, Part One, Chapter 1-7, with pleasure and profit. A brief account of the life of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu included in this volume illustrates the central theme of the entire text, the loving service of God. A glossary and index to Sanskrit verses and a general index have been added for the convenience of scholars. This monumental work is immensely valuable alike to historians of religion, linguistic scholars, cultural anthropologists, pious devotees, as well as to the general reader interested in spiritual matters. I recommend it highly to every student of Indian philosophy, culture, and religion."

Devotee (1): Then he ordered two standing orders for the library, and they took it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Oh, that Australian...? (break)

Satsvarūpa: "It is a work to be treasured.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Devotees: Jaya!

Ghanaśyāma: Sometimes... (break) ...they say the exact things, you know. It's so nice that people...

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I myself read my reviews.

Devotee (1): This man here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he has just recently, Dr. Bardwell Smith... He's a professor. He has just recently written a letter to us that he's going to bring his students. He's in charge of an India tour program for students in India. He's going to bring his students on a regular scheduled program to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes, invite them.

Rādhāvallabha: Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, if you can keep everyone from banging into those... They break very easily.

Prabhupāda: So why not make a small booklet of all these, thin paper, so that we can send.

Rādhāvallabha: We need very much also a permanent display building in Māyāpur. This exhibit cost almost four thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes, have immediately.

Rādhāvallabha: Jaya.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Yaśodānandana: Whoever steals the jewels.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is possible.

Rādhāvallabha: Even just recently they were laughing at this curse, and they took the jewel from Sītā-devī in their car to go to the museum, and their car crashed on the way.

Pañca-draviḍa: Did they die?

Rādhāvallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.

Prabhupāda: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has crashed.

Prabhupāda: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death? (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: When somebody is dying and his external consciousness is completely absorbed in all kinds of terrible bodily symptoms, how is it that a devotee remembers Kṛṣṇa? What is actually happening that he's able to remember Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Devotee generally remembers Kṛṣṇa. But even if he cannot, Kṛṣṇa will help him.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is no civilization five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Three thousand years...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All cavemen.

Prabhupāda: ...before, there was no civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I just.... I read that recently in an anthropology book, that 3000 B.C. means five thousand years ago, everyone was living in.... Especially in this part of the world, people were simply living in caves.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: English propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: English propaganda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had very crude tools for making their things. Practically they were all like animals.

Prabhupāda: So how this literature came?

Hari-śauri: Well, they say that it's not older than 1,000, 1,500 years old.

Prabhupāda: One thousand.... But where are other literatures like that, 1,500 years, in Europe and other places?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No such thing.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...met recently our Lalitā Cācā? You did not?

Bhavānanda: Who is that?

Prabhupāda: Lalitā, Lalitā, Lalitā Ṭhākura or...

Bhavānanda: Lalitā.

Pañca-draviḍa: Lalitā Prasāda?

Prabhupāda: Huh, huh.

Bhavānanda: In Birnagara, no. Jayapatākā has been there, but I haven't been there in years. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...moon is hot, they say, because the shade of the earth is obstructing.

Pañca-draviḍa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Devotees: Yes.

Trivikrama: They say that the sun is hitting like that.

Prabhupāda: Eh? The sun is there, and the earth is there. How it becomes...?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The earth is bet.... The earth is between the sun and the moon. Therefore there's some...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, in between.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But cloud is not always existing. But this brightness is always existing. Cloud is sometimes appearing, sometimes disappearing. The moon brightness is regular. How you can compare with cloud? When you compare, there must be consistency. Analogy. Analogy means similar position. Otherwise, analogy has no meaning.

Haṁsadūta: Here's Jayapatākā.

Prabhupāda: Ah! (break).... Our Lalitā Cācā wants to do? You met him recently?

Jayapatākā: Oh. So his point is...

Prabhupāda: Does he want to do something or simply speculate?

Jayapatākā: He says that he wants to do something and so does some of his people.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatākā: But he has a committee. He has a society. One Mr. Bhattacarya, who is a lawyer, and this Śacīnandana, who is a clerk.

Prabhupāda: But that's all right. What they want to do?

Jayapatākā: But they never.... We never spoke to those people.

Prabhupāda: I have told him that "Whatever you want to give us, give us. If you cannot give us, give us in lease. You remain your proprietor, but give us in lease, and we develop it." But he has never replied that. What does he want to do?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Religious book, selling daily so much, huge amount, that is unique in the history.

Carol Jarvis: Are they sold mainly in the Western countries?

Prabhupāda: All over the world. Especially in Europe, America.

Hariśauri: We even had some book orders just recently from Russia.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also inquiring.

Guru-kṛpā: Every university in America takes complete book. Every book Śrīla Prabhupāda writes, there is standing order. Oxford, Princeton, Harvard, UCLA, University of California...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All of the leading professors also have written very favorable reviews, citing these...

Prabhupāda: Where is that book, Professor Judah's book? Hare Krishna and Counterculture.

Carol Jarvis: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: You have read that?

Carol Jarvis: No, I haven't.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he has written big book, Professor Judah. He has very much appreciated. And he has given statistics and everything, very scholarly book. Hare Krishna and Counterculture.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is the important men.

Guru-kṛpā: That one Marwari spent eighteen lakhs of rupees.

Prabhupāda: I do not know eighteen lakhs, but I know he went to Germany for medical operation and changing the gland with monkey's gland. Yes. He was eighty years old at that time.

Devotee (2): The leaders are so infected. There was an article recently...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). That is already dictated by Bhāgavata. These leaders, rascals who are blind, and they are trying to lead other blind men. All of them are falling in the ditch.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the case of Mahārāja Veṇa there was some recourse for the brāhmaṇas. What can we do?

Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇas were controlling the kṣatriyas. They were obeying the instruction of brāhmaṇas. That is social function. The first-class man will give instruction to the government, and the government will carry the order, "Whether people are actually doing this?" Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And vaiśya will produce food grain and milk sufficiently. And the śūdras, they will help these three higher classes. That's all. This is social system. (break) The brāhmaṇas, they will be always engaged to make plan how people will be successful in the aim of life. And that will be executed through the kṣatriyas. And the vaiśyas will supply foodstuff. Food is also required. And good government is required, and nice direction is required. This is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. And śūdra, they have no brain; they will abide by the orders of these higher sections, that's all. So our movement is creating first-class brāhmaṇa, and the kṣatriyas, if they abide by our instruction-our instruction means Kṛṣṇa's instruction—then everything will be nicely done. Sannyāsīs, they have begun to keep secretaries.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: (in car) Therefore any other argument that we present, they...

Prabhupāda: There is no argument. "You remain yourself. Let us remain peaceful. You remain peaceful. We are following our mahājana." Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have got so many exalted mahājanas. Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Nārada, Asita, Devala, Arjuna, in recent, in the recent years, within two thousand years, all the ācāryas. So we are safe. We don't require your help. Bas. If you are satisfied with whatever you have understood, you remain. (break) ...authorities. And the most exalted of them is Kṛṣṇa, so we have no doubt. You cannot make us doubtful. That is not possible.

Guru-kṛpā: But I think they are doubtful, though.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why they complain? They're doubtful.

Guru-kṛpā: Asaṁśayaṁ samagram.

Prabhupāda: That.... Yes. That verse?

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
(BG 7.1)

Asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I'll see to(?)" This is our faith. We have no asaṁśaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. Asaṁśayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). That's all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that's all.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Stalin is calculated to be greatest criminal in the world. He has killed so many men. All rogues. We were taken through the neighborhood of all aristocratic men who were killed in the revolution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: While reading about China, one of the books I was reading also described Cambodia, Vietnam and Korea. And the recent histories of these countries are so horrible, that the... Mostly in that part of the world now they have become totally anti-American. They are very, very anti-American because of what the Ameri... The Americans have simply gone there and...

Guru-kṛpā: Not Korea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: North Koreans don't love Americans.

Guru-kṛpā: No, not north Koreans, South Koreans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now Korea is united.

Guru-kṛpā: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, I've been reading, they hate the Americans in North Korea.

Guru-kṛpā: Trivikrama has left Korea now, he went to... He's left. He's in Japan.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He could not do anything?

Guru-kṛpā: I don't know, he has left there. He went for 3 weeks and left. Now he's in Japan. I don't know where. He's doing something.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is my problem. If anyone can solve this problem, I will call him scientist. That is everyone's problem. The artists, they are trying to remain young, especially the ladies. And still, the scientist cannot stop this, that "No more becoming old, old." Then where is your improvement? You have invented some cosmetic. You apply it, and your, what is called, hollow cheek will be swollen up.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in London recently, just like they have plastic grass, they have plastic trees, they have a plastic woman.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but the plastic woman will not satisfy me.

Rādhāvallabha: They have operations.

Prabhupāda: Simply rascals, that's all. Better not to talk with, that "You are rascal number one. I don't want to waste my time. When you make solution of these problems, then we shall talk. Now go on researching and befool your followers that in future you'll get." That's all.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...cut incisions on their face and take out fat and tighten the skin and sew it up again. And they say this makes them beautiful.

Prabhupāda: That is so long he is living. Can you do it in the dead body? Then where is the solution? (break) ...condition you can do that. That is not in your hand. Living condition is not in your hand. You'll depend on some superior arrangement. Why do you take credit? You do this in a dead body. Then...

Rādhāvallabha: When they bury the dead bodies they put make-up on the face and make a nice smile, so people can see the dead body is happy.

Prabhupāda: Let the scientists be happy by seeing dead people. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Thinking. Thinking, he's under the influence of māyā. māyā is dictating, "Why you are trying to go away? Come on, here, Santa Monica." (laughter) And when you become detestful either this Santa Monica or any Monica, "I am not interested," then your spiritual life is...

Jagannātha-suta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was in New York recently to check the color printing of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 7.2, we were presented with two awards which your books had won for color and design, two awards from the Printing Industries of Metropolitan New York. They gave us big wooden plaques with a certificate of excellence, yes, for Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and for Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Hṛdayānanda: You should show Prabhupāda, bring him those plaques.

Jagannātha-suta: Yes, we have those plaques hanging up in the Press building now.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Bring it, I shall see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...diminution on this path of devotional service, nehābhikrama-nāśo'sti (BG 2.40). So does that mean that once one enters the material world, there's only progress in going back to Godhead, although it may be slow, over many lifetimes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. One is going slow, one is finishing very rapidly. If one is serious, he can finish very rapidly. If one is not serious, it will take time.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But there is a government. You don't like or don't care, that is your business, but there is a government. How you can deny it? That we shall see later on, how you can neglect government. But there is a government. You have to accept.

Rāmeśvara: I think it is just in the last few hundred years that these scientists have been given so much prestige and they're making so much propaganda. It's just a recent thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, formerly it was not such a great majority of people who thought like this; it was just a few.

Prabhupāda: So we have to challenge all these rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are giving us the weapons with which to challenge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental knowledge. Now the Russians will fall also if our books are introduced there.

Prabhupāda: If actually they are after something reality, they must accept. If they are actually after something reality. It is natural. They have been disgusted with this Christianity. Useless, that's all. But if they are actually serious, then they'll accept knowledge. (japa)

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, all over the world, they accept Sunday first.

Mahendra: All of their successes are accidental. Just like they discovered the planet called Pluto. The way it was discovered was one man recognized that there was a fluctuation in the orbit of the planet Neptune, and so he made some calculations and figured that the fluctuations were caused by another planet that must be further away than Neptune that no one has discovered yet. So he made many calculations and figured out where the planet should be, how big it should be, how much it should weigh, how far away it was. So then he told other scientists about it, and they looked in their telescopes, and sure enough, there it was. But it wasn't as big as he said, nor was it as heavy as he said, nor was it as far away as he said, and when they rechecked the data they found that the orbit of the original planet wasn't really wrong either. So all of his calculations were wrong, but still the planet was there. So somehow or other he stumbled upon it, but all of his calculations to find it were absolutely wrong. That's the planet called Pluto.

Prabhupāda: Recently there was an propaganda. That comet?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it would come and destroy,

Prabhupāda: There was no comet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said it would destroy...

Prabhupāda: Destroy...

Hṛdayānanda: They predicted a comet that never came.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Fifth Canto you wrote that the planets are being pulled in their orbits by chariots. Just like there is a description of the sun planet, and there is very elaborate...

Prabhupāda: That is movement. Now, according to their calculation, sun is fixed up, but according to our calculation it is moving. That is the difference.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda saw that article on that Ted Patrick.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw it in New York recently, our president, (sic:) Ādikeśa, he went up against Ted Patrick on television, big television show, and he completely defeated him. So Ted Patrick was saying that, you know, these people are all fanatics. So (sic:) Ādikeśa, at the end, he said, so, if we're fanatics, then the Pope is even more fanatical, so why don't you deprogram him? And everybody laughed at that Ted Patrick. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: He says we teach our.... I mean he has many arguments. He knows all about the incidents in Germany and Japan, and he uses this against us.

Prabhupāda: He's collected all these bad.

Rāmeśvara: "Lying and cheating," he says.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A few devotees who have joined him, who left and have joined him, they have given him this inside information, so he tries.... Actually, though, no strong devotee can be changed by him. He only gets the very new men. So now he's written a book.

Prabhupāda: About us?

Rāmeśvara: About his experiences of kidnapping our students and others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the book called?

Rāmeśvara: It's called Let My Children Go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let Our Children Go, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So we have got our lawyer to start a lawsuit against him, because in that book they are blaspheming us like anything. And this very big publisher, who published the book, has spent lots of money in advertising. And the advertising always uses our name, because it's controversial. They always try to get people to buy the book, saying "Now you can read about the dangerous Hare Kṛṣṇa people."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) It's a good propaganda, I think.

Rāmeśvara: But we're trying to stop that.

Prabhupāda: America is feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they're getting pinched. You have really come as an aggressor, Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda laughs) Actually I think we are the most dangerous revolutionaries in the whole world.

Prabhupāda: To the rākṣasas.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Recently, in New York, my parents came to visit me. You know they.... Actually they didn't come to see me, they came to the restaurant, but I happened to be there. (Prabhupāda laughs) So, ah, they related a very unusual incident that one of their friends is a lawyer in New York. So they were having dinner with him the other day, and he mentioned that recently he had gone to Las Vegas for a vacation. In Las Vegas there are many gambling casinos. So when he was about to depart on the plane, one of his friends gave him a five dollar bill and told him that "In order that your gambling to be fortunate, the first good person you see there, you give this five dollar bill to him, and it will automatically bring you good luck." So the man went to Las Vegas, and when he got out at the airport, one of our devotees approached him, and this gentleman happens to be a lawyer who's fighting against us to keep us out of the New York airport, he's representing the airline company. So he didn't know it was one of our devotees because they were in the regular clothes, civilian clothes. So the devotee said, "Please, we're doing good work, educating people, you kindly give a donation." So the man thought: "Well, my friend gave me this," he gave him five dollars, and naturally, the devotee gave him a book. So the man didn't look at it, but he went into the taxi, the lawyer, and then when he looked he realized-(laughter) he was supporting the enemy. And another incident they related is that they go on vacation to South America. So there were in the Amazon, in the jungle, in the Amazon...

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, I heard this when I...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and they, right in the middle of the jungle, suddenly the devotees were there. (laughter) Hṛdayānanda's men were there preaching, and they said they could not imagine that they were in this most unusual place, no one was around, but suddenly the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were. (laughter)

Hṛdayānanda: They told me they met Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: If he gets a book in an unusual place, they always say, "You people are everywhere."

Rāmeśvara: When we tell the public that we only have maybe ten thousand devotees, they are very surprised there are so few Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, because they see us everywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Therefore we're the most enthusiastic missionaries in the world.

Prabhupāda: (break)...say that all the ten thousand devotees, each of them is a moon, not a star.

Devotees: Jaya!

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What we have to take lesson from this, huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still using it now. Does that mean man is still...

Rāmeśvara: They are convinced that man used to live in caves, and just recently he has been civilized.

Prabhupāda: So what is the effect of civilization? When they used to live in cave, they were hunting animals and eating. So you are doing the same thing. What civilization?

Hari-śauri: Except they're doing it on a bigger scale now.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that it would not be possible for them to find the remains of the bodies of the Aryans because they would burn their bodies.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And there is another problem, Irish problem. The Irish men, they are dropping bombs in London, in daytime. Creating always disturbance.

Gopavṛndapāla: I was in London just recently, and in the airport, where we distribute books, you cannot put your bag of books down because the police will come, hold you, and say, "You have a bomb in your bag." You must always keep it on your shoulder. And there are signs about every fifty feet, saying "Do not leave luggage unattended" because they are thinking anything which is unattended is a possible bomb.

Prabhupāda: London airport is very congested.

Gopavṛndapāla: Yes, very.

Prabhupāda: Very, very congested. Always thousands and thousands of men. If there is any such bomb explosion.... Life is becoming more and more insecure. The advancement of civilization is no relief for these other problems.

Hṛdayānanda: Prahlāda Mahārāja has said that their solution is bringing more problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In order to solve one problem, more problems.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If he comes out, he faces unemployment. Better to remain here. (break)

Jagadīśa: ...how to prolong life and stop death. So Dr. Frog has a recent theory that (Prabhupāda laughs) if a person fasts on every third day, he can prolong his life, twice as long. They are experimenting with rats on this basis. (break)

Rāmeśvara: And we take our knowledge from Śrīla Vyāsadeva.

Trivikrama: And here also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the ocean, they're surfing, extreme cold.

Rādhāvallabha: It's so cold that they sit on the water and they just tremble.

Prabhupāda: That is also another punishment, voluntary.

Hari-śauri: Everybody's doing tapasya, but for their own cause.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Ugra-karma, ferocious activities. (break)

Rādhāvallabha: ...people also do that. They wake up at two or three in the morning and drive and stand in the water for eight or ten hours, just freezing, waiting to catch a fish.

Candanācārya: For sport.

Rādhāvallabha: Just for fun, not even for eating.

Candanācārya: There are some fishermen that spend six months out of the year far out at sea just fishing. They sleep only three or four hours a day. They don't see any other people. They just live together on a big boat.

Bharadvāja: So the only way to beat that cycle is ajñāta-sukṛti?

Prabhupāda: Why ajñāta? Why not jñāta? You rascal, you take Kṛṣṇa conscious. Why ajñāta? Be informed. This is the only way.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: And then we can give alternatives.

Mādhavānanda: In a recent issue of Newsweek magazine, there was a very large article about Washington, D.C. politicians-congressmen and senators being exposed by the press for going out with prostitutes and taking money and misspending. Big expose, scandal.

Prabhupāda: What is that sound? Airplane?

Mādhavānanda: There is a very large factory over there. You can see the smokestacks. What is it? What kind of factory? Electrical company.

Prabhupāda: We have got open place, but not very pleasant. You cannot sit down for a long time. The wind is cold.

Mādhavānanda: Very beautiful here, all over the grounds. There's also very beautiful places over there and all over.

Prabhupāda: So develop it nicely. (break) ...fruit and flower trees. Mango trees, all fruits, banana, papaya, jackfruit, apple, guava...

Hari-śauri: Pineapple.

Prabhupāda: Pineapple. And flowers.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are presenting these books, that we are not a so-called sect of whimsical faith. It is based on science and authorities. Recently we have got report that our books have been taken in Hamburg University. You know Hamburg University?

Stansky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: As their textbook for Sanskrit class. They found it so wonderful. Because for Sanskrit scholar it is good opportunity to learn Sanskrit, because each word we have given in English and German synonyms.

Stansky: I want very much to learn basic Sanskrit, but I have so much to learn right now that ah,...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not necessary, but those who are interested in studying Sanskrit literature, for them it is very good help. And at the same time they get sublime knowledge. They study Sanskrit and get knowledge. So you have kindly come to join us. You study our philosophy very minutely and then try to do something for the suffering humanity.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So we thought that we shall use it as temple. That they disagreed. "No, you cannot keep it, you have to break it, then we can sell to you." Then why shall I break it? We shall pay for it and break it? No. Then the negotiation failed. But a huge land, and we are prepared to purchase. In England, in London, I was..., one, two churches I was negotiating, and one church, that man, he said, "I'll burn into ashes. I'll not sell it to Bhaktivedanta." (laughs) Recently we wanted to purchase in St. James Park one nice house. So they did not give us. They..., we offered better price; still they did not give us.

Stansky: Your Grace, the thing that impressed me the very most at the temple in Los Angeles.... Now you must bear in mind that I am very, very steeped in Catholicism, I'm very steeped in the New Testament. So when I observed what was happening at the temple in Los Angeles, I was seeing the Book of Acts coming to life. Something that died three hundred years ago in the Roman church. In 300 A.D. it died. Since then there's been no such example. And I was just amazed wandering around because there I saw the exact, the Book of Acts. And I was impressed.

Indian girl: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: One priest has joined us. What is his name?

Satsvarūpa: Eugene Stowsky.

Prabhupāda: He's Ph.D. He has recently joined us. He likes this movement.

George Gullen: I'm sure it satisfies a deep need. I'm sure that's true.

Prabhupāda: No, it is the need of the human society. There is no alternative. In the Vedic mantra it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must accept this. Otherwise, his human life is spoiled. If you simply trained up to live like an animal, then it is a great harm to the human society.

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "...who has made it his life's work to debunk the so-called material powers of god-men the world over, and said that he is afraid for his life. Amongst those he has challenged is Satya Sai Baba, a mystic who has thousands of followers in South Africa. The man who is said to expose fraudulent practices amongst miracle workers is Dr. Abraham T. Kavoor, who recently held a spell-binding magic show at the Bangalore Town Hall to debunk the miracles of god-men. He claimed that several of the tricks demonstrated had, in fact, been learned from persons who had duped the public that they could perform miracles and other extraordinary acts. And this, he believed, would lead to an attempt on his life. 'I am not afraid of gods. They don't exist. But I am afraid of god-men, because they are alive. They have thugs as agents. If a good man like Gandhi could be assassinated, what keeps a Kavoor from suffering the same fate?' Addressing a press conference, Dr. Kavoor implied that an attempt might be made on his life if he tried to expose the fraudulent practice by god-men because this would involve a physical search of the persons involved. Hence his insistence that his investigation would have to be preceded by their permission. (The permission of these so-called mystics, registered letters.) To date, he said, he had written six registered letters to Satya Sai Baba issuing his famous challenge, but had no reply from him as yet. Asked how he produced ash and other objects out of nowhere, Dr. Kavoor indicated that one of the methods was by concealing the objects to be materialized inside of his coat. The rest was pure sleight of hand. Photographs of him (Sai Baba) exposing his coat have been published both in the national and international press, he said. Reporting that haṭha-yogī L.S. Lal had confessed to him that his much-vaunted show of walking on water had been pure trick designed to make some money, Dr. Kavoor said, 'How long can the government of India tolerate such hoaxers who claim to have supernatural powers and exploit the ordinary men?' "

Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You may read that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of India's biggest and most ancient religious festivals, Ratha-yātrā, the festival of the chariots, which has been enacted in several Western cities in recent years, is to be staged in South Africa in July. The festival in honor of Lord Kṛṣṇa is planned to be held in Durban next month by the local branch of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Based on the thousands-of-years-old annual parade of the three main deities of the Jagannātha temple on huge chariots through the streets of Purī, Orissa, the festival has been staged by devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa in major world cities such as London, Paris, New York, Washington, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago, Montreal and Melbourne, following the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness amongst thousands of Westerners in the decade since the founding of the movement in 1966 by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Almost a million devotees participate in the chariot festival held every summer at Purī, where they offer oblations to Lord Kṛṣṇa; lend a hand, tugging the ropes, to pull the huge chariots; line the grand route; or simply attend to see the color and pageantry from high vantage points. Jagannātha-The three colossal chariots from which the term Jagannātha is derived carry the three Jagannātha Deities of Lord Balarāma, the Lord who gives spiritual strength and pleasure; Lady Subhadrā, one who is the auspicious one; and Lord Jagannātha, the Lord of the universe,"—with a capital L—"on the three-kilometer journey symbolizing Lord Kṛṣṇa's visit to the town of His childhood pastimes. This year ISKCON will sponsor Ratha-yātrā festivals in ten cities worldwide. Durban, however, is not amongst them, as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is fairly new and has not yet established itself on a firm basis and increased its following in Durban. Branch members are enthusiastic and are hoping to organize a procession of their own through the streets of Durban to coincide with the festivals which will be held in several major cities."

Prabhupāda: They are arranging like that or not? Our branch there?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want to. I told them that better to wait until they have some more local support, because they would have to have Deity worship, and I don't think they're ready for Jagannātha deities there. There's only eleven devotees in Durban. So when they have some more local support, they can start holding.

Prabhupāda: No, this Jagannātha festival will be participated by all the Indians. There is no doubt about it. So our few men, and with the cooperation of the local Indians, it can be successful.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Why not? What is this nonsense? If all the stars can move, what is the earth? That is their nonsense. Only earth is populated, everywhere is vacant. (laughter) In the Bhāgavata it is said every planet is full of living entities. Jana-pūrṇa. Perhaps I have explained, in my recent.... jana-kīrṇa. Jana-kīrṇa means full of living entities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Last chapter of the Seventh Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And these rascals say there is no life in other.... Moon planet is accepted as the heavenly planet, and these rascals say "It is sand. And we have brought the sand." It is one of the heavenly planets.

Jayādvaita: Some scientists have started a project. They are beaming radio messages into space because they think perhaps there is someone intelligent there, and they will beam back something.

Prabhupāda: Their knowledge is "perhaps." It is nonsense. They have no definite knowledge. "Perhaps." Perhaps is not knowledge.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: These foolish things are going on. They think the body, by some chemical and physical combination and electric power.... Although they have not been able to do so, but still they'll theorize like that. In this way the whole human society is going on in a deep, ignorant platform. So, that is the defect of the human society at the present moment, and we are trying to mend this defect by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. People are trying to understand. Our books are being very nicely received by the educated circle. We have got so many books. About, for the time, we have got over fifty-four books like this. This book is selling very nicely, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have printed recent edition, 350,000 copies, that is finished. Again we are going to print 500,000 copies. So it is a great science meant for all human beings, not for the Hindus or the Muslim or the Christian. Science, mathematic, is meant for everyone. So it is spiritual science. Everyone should take advantage of it. Otherwise what was the use of my.... I have not come here to preach Hindu religion. Why you should take Hindu religion? You are already Christian. So what is use of replacing Christian religion to Hindu religion? We have no such distinction. We are not after increasing the number of Hindus; we are after making the human being perfect in knowledge. That is our aim.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: General definition.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Los Angeles Times has a circulation of one and a half million daily. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...recently I said all these so-called gurus are either rascals, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, or they have no knowledge. Not directly, indirectly.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How's that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is fact. These rascals come here for women and money, that's all. They do not know what is spiritual life. If I say like that, you think it is right or wrong?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You're right.

Devotee: Good idea. You didn't compromise.

Prabhupāda: Why compromise? (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think the nondevotees would like to be classified in one of those four categories.

Prabhupāda: But they are. They may not, they may like or not like, it doesn't matter, but they are. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that even persons who come to Kṛṣṇa with material desires, although...

Prabhupāda: They are pious.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is this article? Ah. "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness-The Spirit of '76." "Curing the Crimes of a Lifetime." Vibhavatī. "Curing the Crimes"—read it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reads) "Adapted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, translation and commentary by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." In the middle there is a picture of Arjuna piercing the target, and Draupadī. "With the recent disgrace of an American president still fresh in our minds, it is interesting to read of a similar case in ancient times. Five thousand years ago a blind king named Dhṛtarāṣṭra dishonored his high post and caused the death of millions. This story is of special importance even today, because he found an antidote to the crimes of a lifetime and in his old age became self-realized. King Dhṛtarāṣṭra was the acting monarch of Hastināpura, the capital of the Vedic kingdom of Bhārata, which five thousand years ago, according to the Vedic literature, spread over most of the planet. Hastināpura was on the banks of the Yamunā River at the present-day site..., at the site of present day Delhi. As its name indicates-hasti means elephant—it was a city full of opulently decorated elephants. Noble men rode elaborate chariots past marble palaces inlaid with glittering jewels. The sweet smell of incense drifted out of lattice windows. Trees bearing fruits and flowers lined the wide streets, which were sprinkled with scented water. There was no hint of poverty or distress. Hastināpura was the crown jewel of the abundant Vedic civilization. From the beginning, Dhṛtarāṣṭra's position as king was never legal, for he was blind, and Vedic law ruled that a blind man cannot be king. Thus the throne went to his younger brother Pāṇḍu. But when Pāṇḍu died in his young manhood, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began ruling on behalf of Pāṇḍu's five sons, who were still children. In an age of great and honorable kings, Dhṛtarāṣṭra was an exception. Swayed by his eldest son Duryodhana's ruthless lust for power, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began to abuse the guardianship of the Pāṇḍavas by closing his already blind eyes to the planned and purposeful efforts of Duryodhana to destroy the boys. As the descendant of a great royal dynasty, Dhṛtarāṣṭra had the lineage and rearing of a proper monarch, but it seemed that he was as blind spiritually as he was physically. Although he admired and even loved the five fatherless princes, he began to contemplate taking away their kingdom, and even their lives."

Prabhupāda: At seven o'clock we shall go there?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to keep a set of men lazy, who cannot work. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone must work to his capacity. Prescribed duties. They accuse us that we are escaping. Huh? What is that? We do not escape. We are always busy.

Devotee: Recently I had an opportunity to see a (indistinct) farm community, and I was talking to one of the boys there about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they said "You are under Swami Prabhupāda." They said, "We have never seen Prabhupāda smile." I told them that "Yes, birth, death, disease, and old age are nothing to smile about."

Prabhupāda: There are so many pictures, smiling. (laughter)

Devotee: When you smile it's always beautiful.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have not read your Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You are smiling here.

Prabhupāda: No. There are so many. Hmm. What is that?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport? "There are many pseudo meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set forth for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart of a mundane man and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."

Prabhupāda: That is not the right way. Kṛṣṇa never said to Arjuna that "You haven't got to fight. You sit down, I shall do everything." He never said that. "You have to fight." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyaśacin. "And the result is already created by Me, but you have to make a manifestation of fighting." Just like our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Within eight or ten years we have developed so much. Is it humanly possible? It is Kṛṣṇa's plan. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You go and preach. Take the credit." Yes. It is His plan. Actually everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. He gives the credit to His devotee, that's all. You know the history of the Detroit temple (laughs)?

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: As you can afford. Minimum one cart. Otherwise, three carts. In India the Ratha-yātrā festival is going on, according to rough estimate, for the last two thousand years, and the crowd never diminishes. One secretary of Parliament or something like that.

Hari-śauri: Śrī R. Subramanyam, M.A., Deputy Director Research, Lok Sabha Secretariat, National Parliament, New Delhi. Should I read it? "A strange feature of the modern world is that in spite of vast advances in science and technology and the establishment of a good number of institutions for human welfare, mankind has not found true peace and happiness. Knowledge of material sciences and arts has increased tremendously in recent times, and millions of volumes on each fill the libraries the world over. People and leaders in every country are generally well versed in these arts and sciences, but despite their efforts, human society everywhere continues to be in turmoil and distress. The reason is not far to see. It is that they have not learned the science of God, the most fundamental of every other art and science, and fail to apply it to the facts of life. The need of the hour is, therefore, to do it if mankind is not only to survive but flower into a glorious existence. To teach this science of God to people everywhere and to aid them in their progress and development towards the real goal of life, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most eminently fitted. In fact, this great ancient work of Vyāsa will fill this need of the modern times, for it is a cultural presentation for the respiritualization of the entire human society. His Divine Grace, Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of the ISKCON movement, has taken it upon himself, in addition to his ceaseless travels and other multifarious activities in the service of the Lord, the stupendous task of translating this Sanskrit work into English in about sixty volumes for the welfare and happiness of mankind. It is really astonishing how he is able to do this single-handed, and when one comes to think of this, apart from his other great literary works, one is tempted to wonder if he is not the same Vyāsa Muni reborn today to adapt his own old work into a universal language of this age for the spiritual upliftment of the modern man. So far eighteen volumes of this most beautiful literature on God have been brought out by ISKCON, and the rest are under preparation. Needless to say that in keeping with the excellence of their other publications, the publishers have seen to it that the printing, get-up, and pictures in these volumes are also of the highest quality, as though to serve as an ornament to the divine contents of the books. This is a rare opportunity to people and leaders of every country, race and community in the world to know and understand the glorious science of God and work for their perfection. I would say that this encyclopedia of spiritual knowledge is more important and fundamental than the encyclopedia of any other branch of knowledge and should, therefore, find a rightful place not only in the public and private libraries, big and small, of educational and other institutions, as also of every household, but above all in the hearts and minds of every man and woman." That seems to be it.

Prabhupāda: Now read.

Pradyumna: First Canto, Chapter Five.

sūta uvāca
atha taṁ sukham āsīna
upāsīnaṁ bṛhac-chravāḥ...

Prabhupāda: You can keep it here.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now discuss any points.

Kulādri: One of the richest men in the United States, Howard Hughes, he just recently died, and he had sores all over his body. With all of his money, he died in a very miserable condition. He had so many millions and millions of dollars.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He said at the time of death, "I think I've made a mistake."

Prabhupāda: What he was?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was one of the richest men in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He was owning all the..., like aircraft, they are making, the jet airplanes, and he was a movie star in his youth, and he had many beautiful women, fabulous wealth, he owned hotels all over the world, airplanes, airports, but...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At the end of his life he didn't even mix with women so much though. He became very despondent and depressed. He was like a hermit.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was afraid of germs.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He became like a hermit. He withdrew into himself. No one knew very much about him; he was very mysterious so far as his life with the public was concerned. But towards the end of his life he didn't live a very elaborate life of sense gratification at all. No one knew much about him at all.

Hari-śauri: This description is perfect, actually, because most of his fortunes they calculate he amassed by many illegal methods, like paying off police and fixing so many things up. With his money, he was always able to buy government officials and like this and get so many contracts to further the development of his aircraft companies and this and that.

Prabhupāda: He has manufactured airplanes?

Hari-śauri: Yes, he had something to do with airplanes. And also he had a lot of land in Las Vegas, this gambling city. So many... He was involved in many mysterious maneuvers. It's open in the newspapers, they said that he got most of his money from illegal methods.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...

Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Stay for some time. You'll get sannyāsa. Stay for some time.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: I don't want to get married. It's just being kicked by māyā. I can see that.

Prabhupāda: At least you have got already experience. (laughs) Don't be misled. Stay for sometimes. Will be give you sannyāsa. And now Mr. Punja, has he written any letter?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Punjasai? He wrote a letter recently. He mentioned the business about the books, that Guru-kṛpā said he was supposed to some give books from Australia, and he wasn't getting them.

Prabhupāda: So you can write him—note down—that "We are managing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by GBC. We have got about twenty GBC's for looking after the whole world affair, and above the GBC, I am there, and under the GBC's there are presidents, treasurers, secretaries in each and every center. So the president is responsible to the GBC. GBC is responsible to me. In this way we are managing. But why you are proposing a separate trustee for Fiji? We have no separate trustee till now, but if for security, if it is required, you can adopt it. So this is our management going on. Now, if you have got some new idea, so please explain to me how you want to manage. But I think Fiji temple cannot be managed in a separate idea. But still, I shall entertain if you have got some idea to manage. The deed should be given to the founder-ācārya, in the name of founder-ācārya like 'A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Founder-Ācārya International Society.'

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. This life is everything. This body is everything. Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.

Vipina: Our distributors were in the airport not long ago, and they distributed a book to a man who has just recently written a book called The Fourth Kingdom. And he stopped off to visit our temple and talk with us because he was impressed with the devotees and the literature, and he would like to come and speak to you.

Prabhupāda: You have arranged some engagement?

Vipina: Yes. If it's all right with you, he'll come. He's very nice, but he has some mixed-up ideas.

Prabhupāda: Everyone has mixed-up ideas because nobody is properly trained up. Some ideas they have got, some inquiries they have got. But unless one comes to the right person, he cannot be enlightened. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore one must approach the proper guru.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You have to take it, because there is no difference. As soon as you bring in Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa is the same. You cannot take it differently. Because Kṛṣṇa is speaking to one of the parties of the fighters, the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, and that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means two parties desiring to fight. Who are those parties? Māmakaḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva (BG 1.1). That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the Mahābhārata history. So how you can differentiate this Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa? There is no possibility, it is imagination. The beginning is Mahābhārata and the Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Swamiji, excuse me for this, I read an article recently. One of my secretaries he brought that article to me, it was written by Dr. Bannerji in India-he's a professor at Calcutta University. And he says that Kṛṣṇa and the Mahābhārata, the Kurukṣetra, that is all a visionation.

Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He's a fool. He does not know the facts, and he has posed himself as a learned scholar. That is the difficulty-fools and rascals presenting themselves as scholar and misrepresenting. People are being misguided. Because he is a learned scholar, you are citing his example. But he is a fool. He does not know what is Mahābhārata, what is Kṛṣṇa. And still, he wants to say something, that is his foolishness. He does not know, and still he wants to speak something. That is cheating. The cheating propensity is there for conditioned souls. He does not know one thing, still he wants to speak as an authority. That is cheating. How you can differentiate? If you are actually student of Mahābhārata, then how we can differentiate the speaker in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra and Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is accepted there as Bhagavān. Whenever Vyāsadeva writes Kṛṣṇa statements, he writes bhagavān uvāca. He's Bhagavān, as well as He's a historical person in the Mahābhārata. He never writes kṛṣṇa uvāca, he writes bhagavān uvāca. And Arjuna admits, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣam ādyam (BG 10.12), "You are the Supreme Person." How can you differentiate Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa...? These are miscalculations.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So this is confirmation that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if we accept Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you have to accept Him as He says.

Guest (2): As a great power, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not great power, but greatest power. Nobody is greater than Him. That is accepted by the direct listener of Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna. And he is giving evidences of Vyāsadeva, Asita, Devala, Nārada, they are authorities. And in the recent years, the ācāryas Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have all accepted. And He speaks also. Then where is doubt? Where is doubt?

Guest (2): No, I just want to clear this thing, that thing I accept, sir, this thing that it is a great power, the supreme power.

Prabhupāda: Not a great, the great power. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more greater power than Him. That is His position.

Guest (2): My point is, sometimes this, a difference comes in this thing. Suppose a man of other religion says, okay...

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not question of religion. It is a question of God. God is great. That is accepted by all religions. So if Kṛṣṇa is great, then He is God. Where is the argument?

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There are gold mountains, silver mountains, iron mountains, copper road, everything is there. What is that?

Devotee (1): This is a new picture of Mars, just came in the Washington Post today. Here is what the scientists say the mountains are on Mars. Big crater they are talking about. This is a recent photo.

Prabhupāda: So? What do they say?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Says it's a Grand Canyon. Just like in Arizona there's a canyon called Grand Canyon.

Prabhupāda: So might be from Arizona? (laughter) Like Arizona, that means Arizona.

Rūpānuga: Just like Arizona, the same rocks you find in Arizona.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is called Martian Grand Canyon, and an ocean meandering gorge ten times the size of Arizona's Grand Canyon.

Prabhupāda: That we can photograph it and make ten times, hundred times. Their business is in Arizona.

Rūpānuga: I think so.

Prabhupāda: And this is only the propaganda.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Well, in the natural world and in the cosmos, nothing is stable. Life only survives all the things that can cause it to perish by mobility, by moving. A coconut tree on one island drops its seeds in the ocean to float for thousands of miles to wash up on another shore, so that if that island is destroyed it will have life on another island. The seed blossom of a plant is the way the plant survives. It sends its seeds off to other meadows to assure its survival. The premise here is that humanity arrived in nature very recently. We are part of nature, but we arrived very recently to give life on earth the same mobility, the same chance to survive. Among the hundreds of other planets in the universe, as a dandelion does in seeding other meadows, as a coconut palm does in surviving on other islands—the coconut palm does not know that there are other islands, but yet it launches its seeds to the unknown currents of the ocean—I believe it is our duty to launch our seeds, our space arks, launch those seeds to the unknown gravitational currents of the stars and find the hundreds of other planets that are out there, so that there cannot be enough cosmic disasters to cause life to perish. And it was meeting two or three of your people at the airport, and I asked them about—at the Washington National Airport, I think it was Meena and Mary Davis, and Sarvabhauma I believe—and I said "What about your philosophy?" He said, "We talk about living on other planets." Boy, (laughs) right away I got very interested. And I believe people have had visions of life to other planets because I believe that's our destiny, and that is our reason for existence in nature. I've been interested in the Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll say why? I'm a materialistic type, why am I here? (laughs) You have an interesting philosophy that... You see, not all of us can be building space arks, not all of us can leave the earth, and we should not be using up all our material resources, destroying all other life unnecessarily. And I think that we have to adopt a life style that is a little simpler, that we would enjoy life on this earth, where most of us have to stay, with lesser material requirements. Secondly, I believe we are going to have to have a different type of society on a space ark if we're going to have maybe a hundred years to two hundreds years going to another star. The traditional societies that we are familiar with may not be able to survive the social pressures. Maybe this type of an environment-Is this communal, would you say?—I think it's going to have to be some type of communal environment to survive this kind of a trip. So this is my interest in the Kṛṣṇa movement. I think they seem to have the visions of going to other planets, which I think is our only reason for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, I was discussing. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planetary system where the devas, the demigods live. Their duration of life is very, very big. Our six months is equal to one day there. Such ten thousands of years they live. But they die. It is not permanent. But the duration of life is very big, the standard of life is very high. These are the advantages. But there is death, old age, disease; birth, death, old age and disease. But if you transfer yourself in the spiritual kingdom, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then you don't get any more material birth there. That is because we are eternal, we living entities. We do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After giving up this body we do not die actually; we accept another body.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Woman should be expert in cooking. That is their natural tendency. They should be educated how to cook nicely, how to please the husband, how to take care of the children. This is Vedic civilization. In the beginning a woman, childhood, she's trained up by the mother. Then as soon as she is married, formerly, child-marriage, so she's transferred to the care of mother-in-law. There she is trained up. Then she becomes very good housewife, takes care of household affairs, husband, children, and home becomes happy. What is this nonsense, divorce? There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce. When this divorce system was introduced?

Rūpānuga: Comparatively recent. Because for many years the Catholic Church forbade it. When did it begin?

Pradyumna: Henry the Eighth, the King of England.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's the rascal.

Pradyumna: He had many wives, he wanted to divorce his wife and he could not under Catholic Church, so he started his own church, Church of England.

Prabhupāda: Because many wives were not allowed?

Hari-śauri: No, they had a system, one wife, but he got fed up with them.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (3): And this is Emmet Holman(?) who teaches philosophy at George Mason University. He's also very interested in Indian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: We had some talk with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. Recently our representative went to Moscow for selling our book. They have highly appreciated our books. They have given in writing appreciation.

Mr. Boyd: Your Grace, in regards to the organization of the movement, as such, I somehow am led to believe that there's no coordination between, should I say, your office, in regards to the karmī world, and the different temples. Are each..., does each temple operate by itself, or each division operate by itself?

Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). There is separate arrangement for management, but the idea and philosophy is the same. Ultimately, I am managing. I have my twenty secretaries, they are called GBC, they are assisting me to manage. Every GBC has got a certain number of temples to supervise, and ultimately, I supervise everything. Therefore I come occasionally, stay for few days to see how things are going on. I have got hundred temples, big, big temples, very nice. They have organized palatial buildings, but I cannot stay anywhere. (laughter)

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: She's pointing out that in recent years we've changed our dressing style while we're on the street selling books.

Prabhupāda: Dress? Dress is not important. Practically, as sannyāsī, brahmacārī, we dress with saffron cloth, but sometimes you do not like, but we have to do business with you; therefore we change. What can be done? "Necessity has no law."

Janice Johnson: I'm also interested in... You all have moved your school out of Texas. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Gurukula school, yes.

Janice Johnson: Why was that done?

Prabhupāda: Why? Gurukula school? We are training children from the very beginning of life to understand spiritual importance of life.

Hari-śauri: She's wondering why we moved from Texas.

Prabhupāda: We have... No, we have got there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have, have got our school there. We have about seven or eight schools now all throughout America. We've actually expanded.

Janice Johnson: But wasn't that school moved to India?

Prabhupāda: No, it is maintained, not in large scale, but in small scale.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It was published in the first-class place, and the first-class bookseller who was selling this, Tata Spingh(?), that was the most important bookseller in Calcutta.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Did you send copies to all the libraries?

Prabhupāda: No, they were doing everything. They might have sent to America like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We saw lots of Śrīla Prabhupāda's books, recent books, in that library. Library of Congress has those books.

Prabhupāda: Inside, inside the... Have you got the photograph of inside?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's photograph of Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And... This is not the copy that I wanted. Then Bhaktivinoda. (aside:) That is wrong, I think.

Prabhupāda: So 1944, and it is '76. Thirty-two years?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How did you get the information?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the card catalogue. I think Pradyumna found it. Pradyumna, three, four, five of us went there to see the library. Actually we went to discuss that Sūrya-siddhānta and some of the astronomical calculations. We wanted to check in the library, but they didn't have anything. We found some.

Prabhupāda: Found?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found one Bhāgavata-purāṇa, it was printed in sometime 1901. Their summary of Bhāgavatam, they also described the planetary system, earth first, then... No. Yes, earth, then sun, then moon, like that, in circles.

Prabhupāda: They are... Just see. Their all activities are in Arizona. That's all. That is disclosed yesterday.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere in government, India especially, they do not want this movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the general tendency is...

Prabhupāda: But people are appreciating, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness catches." They're now appreciating.

Devotee (1): Was that a recent article?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the general people are taking it up more and more. I mean there is a growing number of interested persons.

Prabhupāda: That he has written.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not only are there numbers of us increasing, but there are many people who come once a week, once every month, who get magazines regularly. That number is increasing beyond what we can imagine, because it's due to the book distribution, Prabhupāda. We're coming due to two things, first the books, and second the association of devotees. But there's a general mass of people that are coming who are just getting the book, and they are beginning to follow simply on account of reading your books.

Devotee (1): This is a big article. Wow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another magazine article, like that.

Hari-śauri: Rādhāvallabha's got it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is he?

Hari-śauri: I don't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I asked, there's another very special magazine came out, and I asked Rādhāvallabha to bring it and present it to you. It's from New York, but I wanted him to read some of the things. He read the whole thing, it's a whole magazine devoted to meditation groups, and they have featured our society as the best. It's clear, our society was featured more than any others. They mentioned Maharishi and so many others, but they gave...

Prabhupāda: We are also mentioned.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: In other places they could not find, throughout the whole world, Arizona. That means the whole business is going on in Arizona.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that if this terrain were on the earth, we would immediately make it a national park, it looks just like one of the national parks.

Bali-mardana: In Arizona there is much government land. I passed through there recently. So there is good facility for them to make secretly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The moon business was done there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This means it's definitely a very calculated plot to cheat the public.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the whole, all of the nations...

Prabhupāda: Just to convince people that our, this rascal civilization is advanced.

Rāmeśvara: International conspiracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means all the nations are cooperating in this project.

Rāmeśvara: Russia and America.

Prabhupāda: All the so-called scientists.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ninety-three.

Interviewer: His first one was 1896, I think, his first visit.

Prabhupāda: No, 1893.

Interviewer: Ninety-three, I see. Since then there has been a lot of interest in this country in Indian philosophy. Recent gurus have come, they have talked about meditation. My own view is that all of these things have influenced the American people, but in a kind of intellectual fad, a kind of fashion. And it seems to me that your intention and aim is not merely to cater to the mind, cater to reason, cater to the intellect, but to effect a kind of transformation of man himself. Is this why you have introduced a whole way of living, a whole way of life, is it? Am I right in suggesting that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a different platform of life—a spiritual. Generally people are on the material platform, in the bodily concept of life, and the whole world is going on with that wrong conception of life. Actually, as soon as we think that we are this body, we are immediately on the platform of animal life. So in the Bhāgavata it is stated, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is thinking, identifying himself with this body, and similarly with other references, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. In relation with body, we think of family, community, nationality. In this way our civilization is dog civilization. That is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Perhaps you have heard this word...

Interviewer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Yes. Do you think that this is because of the Western influence under which they have gone and you are...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, they wanted to compromise with the Westerners. They did not come to teach, but they wanted to be victimized by the Western people. They had no strength to save themselves. They have no strength. They have no determination. Hodgepodge, that's all. Therefore it was not successful. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. Even nowadays. Now Vivekananda is famous in India that "He preached in America, all Americans have become Vedantists," something like that. Now, practically, you have gone in Vṛndāvana?

Interviewer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Recently?

Interviewer: No, not recently.

Prabhupāda: You have seen our temple?

Interviewer: No, I have not.

Prabhupāda: So we have got our temple, that is considered the best temple in Vṛndāvana. You can show the pictures. So thousands and thousands of Americans went to Vṛndāvana for our temple and other temples. But there is another Vivekananda, Ramakrishna āśrama, nobody went there. Not a single. So what preaching they have done, from practical point of view? So many men went to our temple. They had no inquiry even that "We have heard that there is a Ramakrishna Mission Temple here. Where it is?" It is not..., Vṛndāvana is not a very big city. Everyone knows. Nobody, not a single person went there. And they visited other temples.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: These are Chinese art paintings. They are having a special exhibit of Chinese art.

Prabhupāda: Afro-American, why not Indo-American?

Bali-mardana: There is an Indian exhibition at a different museum right now. This museum also has Indian exhibitions sometimes.

Satsvarūpa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he's very interested in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that he thinks it's a new kind of art that your devotees are painting. That's also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized.

Rāmeśvara: Right now they have one big exhibit of photographs that the British took when they first came to India.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where's that?

Rāmeśvara: It's at the Asia House Gallery nearby.

Ghanaśyāma: We have professors who buy the complete standing order series of the Bhāgavatam-it's because they like the artwork. And then they read the philosophy and like that too. But the art attracts them many times first. They very much like the purports of your writings, that it gives a living expression of the peoples of India other than just historical.

Prabhupāda: ...books.

Hṛdayānanda: They purchase books?

Ghanaśyāma: Yes.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: In England, the Christian Church in recent years or recent decades has been doing very badly and losing support. Your teaching could perhaps provide a substitute for the more traditional type of Christian teaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the science. Therefore I say religion without scientific idea, that is sentiment. It has no value. This is basic principle of religion that the mother is there, the children are there—there must be father. If you say "I do not see what is God," it doesn't matter. Sometimes the child after birth does not see his father. But that does not mean that he has no father, because without father there is no possibility of his existence.

Cline Cross: What impelled you personally, when you, at a fairly late stage in life, to come to the West to teach?

Prabhupāda: I must be prepared to teach. Teaching is not so easy thing. I was ordered to teach at the age of twenty-five years by my Guru Mahārāja. But I was finding out the opportunity how to take up the work. So it took me so many years, so that at seventy years I came out for teaching.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:
Prabhupāda: The same person is senior controller in the family, but in the office he's a junior controller. The same person is junior and senior at the same time. Somewhere he is junior, somewhere he is senior. In this way, if you study all different types of controller, you'll see there is duality of controls, but when you approach somebody that He's simply controller—He's not controlled by others—that is Kṛṣṇa. This is analytical study of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So they have studied all these Vedic scholars, especially Lord Brahmā. This is the statement of Lord Brahmā. Not only Lord Brahmā, Vyāsadeva, Nārada and recently big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, even Śaṅkarācārya and latest, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya—everyone has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme controller. And in the dictionary you'll find... What is religion? Religion means to accept a supreme controller. That is religion. So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the controlling laws given by God. That is called dharma. So real dharma... From all Vedic scriptures, from the version of all authorities, it is confirmed that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1): "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion has conception of God, but no religious system in this world has got any clear conception of God. But in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement it is not actually a so-called religious movement, but it is an educational movement to give information to the human society about God, that "Here is God.
Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They have very well managed. And everyone is eating very nicely. (laughter) Similarly in New Vrindaban. What is the.... I want this, that you have sufficient grain, sufficient milk, then where is your economic question? And from milk, by intelligence you can get so many preparation-luci, puri, halava, rasagulla, sandesh, rabri, wonderful.

Bhagavān: There is one boy, one of our sankīrtana devotees, who previously was a farmer. His father has given him a farm in the north of France. So recently he has given us his whole crop of hay for the cows. The value of that was thirty thousand dollars. It's enough hay to supply twenty-five or thirty cows for two years, and on top of that he's able to get a loan from the bank of forty-five thousand dollars for twenty years at four percent.

Prabhupāda: To be repaid.

Bhagavān: Yes. But this he can use to purchase cows and build barn.

Prabhupāda: Only four percent. How their bank is giving so cheap?

Bhagavān: Because he's a farmer. They're helping...

Prabhupāda: Oh, farmers...

Jayatīrtha: Special concession for farmers to help farm.

Prabhupāda: That means government encouraging farming.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: I've no experience of the French language, I'm talking of the Sanskrit language. (laughter)

Bhūgarbha: If we give him one purport and see how he would change it.

Prabhupāda: There are so many purports you can. (professor reads one purport in French)

Bhūgarbha: That one was all right. (laughter)

Professor Chenique: I was, up to recent time, I was commenting Bhagavad-gītā in the camping. For eleven years every summer I am commenting the Gītā in the camping. I commend very warmly this edition of the Bhagavad-gītā. I think it's the best that you may find in France. But when I'm reading the commentary for my students, I find some sentences which are not good French. I think because it is not a very good style, and I hope it won't be that matter with... (French)

Bhūgarbha: Perhaps Professor Chenique could go over our translations and make any suggestions.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique is offering to re-read our publications. To read them and when he sees something he thinks can be corrected, he will make some indication.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. It is welcome.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Bring some spittoon. You can keep it here. They understand English?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They understand English, yes, some English. Hussain Prabhu has been coming here for a few months. He's chanting. He's a very, very pious boy. Before he came here, he was chanting names of God and following the four regulations.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Very nice. And he is coming recently. He's also interested. He is a vegetarian, does not eat meat, and he's following the four regulations, and he's starting to chant now.

Prabhupāda: And he...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's been coming for two, three months. He's chanting sixteen rounds, and as I said, before he came here, he was chanting various names of God as they are prescribed in Koran. And when he saw that we were chanting names of God, he immediately became attracted. He said, "This is right." Because he knows also that from Koran he should chant the names of God.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In the Koran chanting is recommended?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, definitely.

Prabhupāda: The more you chant God's name, your heart becomes cleansed. (Ātreya Ṛṣi translates) Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). So God has many names. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended God's name must be... It doesn't matter the language is different. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktiḥ. In each name the full power of God is there.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: He offers pūjā to Lord Buddha, he's worshiping Lord Buddha. He has an altar.

Prabhupāda: The other boy?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śiva, Mr. Śiva from Malaysia. He's Hindu I believe. And he's recently come to visit us. Next is Dr. Rulf, he is from Holland. He is an economist and he is working here. I've been acquainted with him through business. And that is Reza. He has been coming here for a long time and he's been chanting.

Prabhupāda: He's trying to be (indistinct).

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Iranian spiritual culture and Indian spiritual culture. You told me?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So first of all, what is spiritual culture?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Sufism...

Prabhupāda: No, not... Just like gold. I'll explain. Gold, either in Iran or in India, gold is gold. You cannot say Iranian gold or Indian gold. That is not. Similarly, when you say Iranian spiritual culture and Indian spiritual culture, the common point is spiritual culture. Spiritual culture is one. It cannot be Iranian, Indian, or anywhere belonging to some sycophant. Just like this moon. This moon is now on Iran. But that does not mean it's Iranian moon. Or the sun, it does not mean Iranian sun. Moon is one. Either in India or in Iran, the moon is moon. You cannot say "Iranian moon" or "Indian moon." So spiritual culture is one. And material culture is one. Therefore I'm asking what do you mean by spiritual culture? That is my question. Then we shall consider whether it is Iranian or Indian or... What is your idea of spiritual culture?

Mr. Hamidi: Of course, I believe that they're all the same, but...

Prabhupāda: No, same. But you must explain at least. I want to know how far you have understood spiritual culture as it is. That is my question.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Give me one piece. For any intelligent man, Bhagavad-gītā is perfect knowledge. There is no doubt about it. But unfortunately most men are rascals. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is perfect instruction. There is no doubt about it. How can I deny? God is speaking personally.

Jñānagamya: I met a man on the plane coming here just recently Prabhupāda, and he had translated Bhagavad-gītā into Parsi, the Persian language, and I invited him to come here, but he is not coming. He is afraid to meet you, I'm sure. And I told him... He was smoking cigarettes and was buying, purchasing liquor on the plane, and I said, "Why are you doing this?"

Prabhupāda: Your duty you have done, that's all.

Jñānagamya: I said "Why are you doing this? Kṛṣṇa asks for controlled senses, but if you know Kṛṣṇa, then you would have no difficulty, you don't need these things."

Prabhupāda: In the beginning if you said, they will not hear.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Little salt?

Prabhupāda: Try to give to the people. If they are fortunate, they will take it.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Hundred dollars. What is the average expenditure here?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Depends on how one lives; it is quite expensive. Eight thousand, ten thousand rupees per month.

Prabhupāda: For rent?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No. Just for food, it is per head, simple devotee food, per person, about five hundred rupees per month.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In India... India, two hundred rupees per month. And it has increased very recently. In 1930, we were paying servant twelve to fourteen rupees per month, and they were satisfied. With food, six rupees. And without food, twelve rupees, fourteen.

Nava-yauvana: That means it cost only six rupees per month for food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the hotel also they were charging six rupees. Means third-class hotel, not first class for cooking dāl, vegetables. Rice was, first-class rice, six rupees per month. Dāl, twelve annas for kg, flour, five annas for two and a half kgs. And from 1942, all of a sudden the price increased, artificially. Milk, two annas per kg. Now three rupees, four rupees. Ghee, first-class ghee, one rupee per kg. First-class ghee. (break) ...paying for the clerks thirty rupees per month. And head clerk, sixty rupees. Officers, hundred to two hundred rupees. High-court judges, four thousand rupees. High-court judges were highly paid.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But why the Indians, they are not like the Americans? You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbhamelā with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. Why they take? Indian is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness naturally? Still they'll go, when there is Kumbhamelā, so many saintly persons are coming. They will come by lakhs. Have you seen it? You have seen Kumbhamelā? You have seen? That is the proof. Not only Kumbhamelā. In Vṛndāvana, just like in our temple, recently it was jam-packed. Why they are coming to Vṛndāvana? Mostly they are coming from villages. Especially during this time at least twenty thousand, fifty thousand men are coming, daily. Still. We held Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras. As soon as it is advertised, you'll find fifteen thousand, twenty thousand men come. And if you hold for weeks, for weeks they will come. You have seen? They are not like Americans, rich. They are all poverty-stricken. To the general eyes they are poverty-stricken. Kumbhamelā you'll see, Hardwar, in Vṛndāvana. Or even in big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, such festivals are held, people will come by thousands. It is training, culture. And this boy is taking three times bath, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is training and culture. And if he is kept in this culture, in future he'll be great saintly person. Then he'll do everything automatically. He will deliver others. It is training.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then there is proof: śāstra is there, sādhu is there, ācārya is there, other authorities are there. Just like Arjuna said, that, quoted Vyāsa, Nārada, Asita, Devala, "All of them have accepted You the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You are explaining Yourself. Therefore I have no doubt." Vyāsadeva is authority, Nārada is authority, and there are many others. Recently, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... We are following the Caitanya cult, but He's stated yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. He's accepting. Why does He say "Kṛṣṇa"? Why does He not say others? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa yāre dekha (CC Madhya 7.128), tāre kaha And Kṛṣṇa also, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior person." And Arjuna accepted, "Whatever You are saying, it is all reasonable." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). "Whatever you have said, I accept in toto." There is no cut short, "I don't like this, I don't accept this." No, everything, sarvam etad.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The basic difference still is that they are saying that Kṛṣṇa, God, whatever you call Him, He..., the paramparā system starts from Him sending a representative, and then that representative has devotees and devotees, like that. But we also say that that is true, but also there is, you could...

Prabhupāda: Bring that wrapper.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: God cannot speak? God cannot come. A very big man, he can come, but He cannot speak?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They agree. He can speak and He can send representatives.

Prabhupāda: Because He has spoken to Muhammad, and Muhammad has come, he is speaking the same thing. So recently... There is no need of God's coming. If Muhammad is speaking on behalf of God, then that is all right. There is no need of God's coming. This is paramparā.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That they agree. And they also agree that that paramparā is lost. They agree with that because they can see there is nobody who can represent Muhammad. There is not a single person. They agree.

Prabhupāda: No, that is everywhere.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: In every religion it is true.

Prabhupāda: Just like these rascals, Bhagavad-gītā they explain in a different way. What Kṛṣṇa says, rejected. He says something else. That is the difficulty-paramparā is lost.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the most convincing argument that Your Divine Grace is making is that we are not just talking, we are also acting. That is the big difference between our philosophy and all the others. Because there are many good philosophies, but they all finish in talk.

Prabhupāda: Talking, that's all.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is pious how he can...

Vāsughoṣa: Yes, we went there every day and we had all day book distribution and kīrtana. Actually some of the Marwaris were good friends of ours, so we wanted to get..., they announced that we were there and we were selling books over the loudspeaker system. Very good. They gave us..., we had a good place for book distribution.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Bombay also Shrimati Morarji had a big program in her house recently. There were huge crowds and our devotees went there to distribute books afterwards.

Yaśomatīnandana: They didn't like it, though. Ghaja, Ghaja came, from Śrī Nāthajī, has come to her house.

Prabhupāda: What is the idea, Ghaja(?) Due to her influence people came. Not for the Ghaja(?). She is influential and something is being done, everyone knows that.

Acyutānanda: In Bangalore we went to another Rāmānuja sannyāsī's āśrama, and he invited us to see an initiation, and they burned the śaṅkha-cakra on the shoulders, by fire, branded. That means they're initiated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they put...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Devotee: It's all right. (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. Bhavauṣadhi (SB 10.1.4). (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Highest medicine.

Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. And it is very pleasing to the ear and the heart. Mana, śrotra, śrotra means...

Dr. Patel: Ears and mind.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, many novel things go from here, but they are sticking to it. They are now seriously taking to it. They understand that this is a great science and we are publishing books. We have already published eighty-four books like that. Eighty-four of four hundred pages. And you'll be surprised that throughout the whole world we are selling books about sixty thousand dollars a day. That means six lakhs of rupees. That is the basic income for our expenditure, 102 centers all over the world.

Interviewer (3): A central minister the Parliament recently said that he will conduct a probe to see if there was anything fishy in this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am bringing before you, before probing, you try to understand what is our income. We are selling these books six lakhs rupees daily, and we are spending it fifty percent for reprinting the books and fifty percent for expanding temples all over the world. This is our activities. Now you probe it or understand it.

Interviewer (3): This is the only source of revenue for the society?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Host: With your permission I must thank with the permission of Swamiji, my friends, I welcome you to my humble house. Today, though you are all very, very busy, but you have made it a point to come and listen to Swamiji speak to you theory, lessons, and his belief and faith. It depends how we take it. Because I have faith in him, I have faith in his teachings, that is why, I being a politician, I being a member of Parliament and the legislative assembly, deputy minister and the ambassador, I have requested and begged of him to come to my humble house to spread his knowledge, which he is giving to the other parts of the world. Last time he visited in a very similar manner, we have got a small gathering here. So at that time I hope you will pardon me, I couldn't think of you all, thinking that, you know, the journalist friends are my good friends, and they are very knowledgeable friends, and that is why they can put so many questions. And by putting so many questions will get the answers by that we are enlightened. So that is why now it is the time for Swamiji to go for maṅgala-ārati. He has given me something. I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā. My guruji is there, he's doing pūjā. He has given me something when I met him, when I heard him, he has given me a gupta-dāna. That is dātavyam iti yad dānaṁ dīyate 'nupakāriṇe deśe kāle ca pātre ca tad dānaṁ sāttvikaṁ smṛtam. It is in the Seventeenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, it is as far as sukṛta is concerned. So that is why he has given me something that indirectly gupta-dāna. So I said always I should follow. Unfortunately, I could not meet him. Recently when I was..., till recently when I was an ambassador I was to go to Nairobi, I was in Somalia, but unfortunately things couldn't materialize. But now if at all I get an opportunity of going abroad I shall be visiting all the institutions, their organizations, their temples, because I am a member of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, life member. I have canvassed, some have become. Canvassed means I've just put a word. Some have become, I who requested, some of my friends who have not become, to become members of Kṛṣṇa conscious, permanent members, life members, like Mrs. Yamuna is here. Yamuna's husband, Raman Rao is here. And I would like you also to become, others also to become.

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything all right to have your darśana, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have heard that you are not feeling well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: Everyone in Calcutta, they were asking how you are. Many people they are anxious to see. We have gotten very good recent publicity there. Three days in a row.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: Three days in a row of front page news articles.

Prabhupāda: What is they have published?

Acyutānanda: Very good. Many ministers are also coming to Māyāpur. Very...

Prabhupāda: Here also the chief minister, many have come to see me.

Devotee: Yesterday.

Acyutānanda: Yes, he is OK. (indistinct background conversation)

Prabhupāda: Gradually they will appreciate. Everyone, all over the world.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow I shall lecture.

Gargamuni: Go ahead.

Jayapatākā: Now, just a few days ago, when I invited him for Janmāṣṭamī, then I asked him what the... He told me at that time... He said, "Now..." He had recently received a phone call from the Chief Secretary." You see? Now your favorite project is going to be spoiled." Then he went over to see the Chief Secretary. He showed him an article from the Rāja-Sabhā, how the member of Parliament had given this challenge that "Are these people CIA or this or that?" Then Mr. Choudhuri said, "Sir, I am not afraid." He said, "Why not?" "Because I have you, don't I?" Then the Chief said, "Yes. You have won me over. I believe in this project." Then he said that now the Chief Minister has agreed that the project be sanctioned. But he said that "I don't want to take the full brunt of the decision. Let the Nadia District Planning Committee take the decision."

Prabhupāda: Nadia?

Jayapatākā: District Planning Committee.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In our favor.

Jayapatākā: In our favor strongly. And only a minority are actively opposed, one percent even. And thirty per cent are in doubt. So, so much so that even I saw recently the M.L.A. who was previously against us. And when I saw him I invited him for Janmāṣṭamī, and he said what about our program for a bridge? I said, "Oh, yes, I discussed with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he suggested having a floating bridge to Navadvīpa. That will be very short. Very easily done with least expense." He said, "Anyway, next time you come to Navadvīpa you can discuss with me. I am ready to help you in all ways." So he has turned his mind around.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Jayapatākā: The MLA. The local Member of Legislative Assembly. He was previously a little against us. But because our whole aṁśa (?) is for us, if he doesn't cooperate he won't get their vote, they want the development in their area. Also the...He is changing a little. Everyone is saying that our society is actually simply doing sincere work.

Prabhupāda: As they doing (?).

Jayapatākā: This food distribution has been very important.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Now the price of rice has gone up by about eighty paisa. From two rupees to two-eighty. So the poor class of people, they are in a very bad situation. So now our attendance has gone up from twelve hundred to two thousand on that Saturday and Sunday, each day. So we have two shifts. So many people are coming that they come from ten o'clock in the morning and wait because otherwise they can't get a boat in time to cross the river. So then we were very surprised to read in a recent newsletter from LA that "They're going to restart the food relief." But we never knew it stopped. We never knew that they had stopped the food relief. We saw then that he said, "They're going to restart." But we never stopped, and we were very surprised to see that. And now they say...

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara.

Gargamuni: To maintain this food relief from the centers only requires what? Fifteen hundred dollars a month. So little amount and so much service is done.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: To stop illicit sex.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are trying to elevate the demoralized human society to God consciousness.

Pradyumna: Then, "John Erdman, a U.S. citizen who sails under the label of (sic:) Jayapak Swami and is in charge of the flourishing Māyāpur complex of the Society, recently had discussions with his chums to set up an In God We Trust Party in India also." Then, heading: "Bigger Than Defunct British Empire." "In a recent communication with Gargamuni Swami, alias Gregory M. Scharf, who looks after West Bengal, the chief from headquarters says, "Now we have become more than the British Empire"

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is your quote.

Prabhupāda: And what is British Empire? British Empire could not occupy the whole world. We are occupying the whole world.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They were so popular, the report was that the readers of Gauḍīya were only hankering after that Bhagavāner Kathā, and after reading that they will throw away. Other articles, they were not interested.

Jayapatākā: So always your writing, people were attracted by.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Even my teachers were attracted in school days.

Jayapatākā: Recently that..., some professor said that you are the veritable incarnation of Vyāsadeva for Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some have said like that. In my matriculation class I wrote some essay and I got out of 100, 85 marks. But the teacher came to the class, "Who has written this?" So I stood up, and he thanked me, "Yes, it is very nice." He especially came to thank me for that essay.

Gargamuni: At least from the human standpoint, it is not humanly possible to have so many books in such a short time. There is no other author, at least that we know.

Jayapatākā: I showed your "As Brilliant as the Sun" to Tarun Kanti Gosh and one other minister, and when they saw that, then after, for ten minutes, all they could say was how Prabhupāda, how he is empowered by Lord Gaurāṅga.

Prabhupāda: They said like that.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Because the culture is lost. Culture is lost.

Commissioner: Because we take the local people as trust board members. We appoint officers.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said if you keep them dogs, what is the use of United Nations? You cannot make the dogs united. That is not possible.

Commissioner: Yes. Therefore recently in Tirupati we have been thinking of starting a training institute along with Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.

Prabhupāda: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have no idea.

Commissioner: They have no idea. Ramakrishna Mission we asked.

Prabhupāda: They have no idea.

Commissioner: They don't have people. They said, "We don't have men even for our own missions."

Prabhupāda: No. How long they can go on with false pretense? And these people, they have no idea what is spiritual life. It is a profession for collecting money. So if you... We do not like to criticize. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Kanayalal Munshi, he did not believe there is life after death or he did not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, fact. This is the founder. So what is their knowledge? And Vivekananda made Nārāyaṇa daridra. So this is their manufacturing ideas. They have no sound knowledge, vacant. They are misled themselves, and they will mislead others. This is going on. But if you say that, "You are the only man?" I can say, "Yes, I am the only man" at the present moment. You believe or not believe. And why? Because I am following Kṛṣṇa's instructions. That's all. I do not touch anything. That is our process. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we say, that's all. Therefore there is little success. I don't manufacture. I have no extraordinary power or I cannot show magic or jugglery of words. But I do sincerely to present what Kṛṣṇa has said.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So we have to follow this formula. This is śāstra-viddhi. One step to another. And if you don't care for the śāstra-viddhi, we can do that, but na siddhiṁ na avāpnoti. It will never be successful. It will be a show, big show, but there will be no siddhi. (pause) If you want to do according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, our cent per cent cooperation will be there. We'll not touch a single farthing of your money, but we can give you direction, "Spend it like that." And government men, you can see that we are not touching a single farthing of your money, but it is being spent for Kṛṣṇa's mission. That you can believe. It is the duty of the government men to see that people may not misrepresent. That is the Vedic injunction. Pṛthu Mahārāja was to see that a brāhmaṇa is doing, acting like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya is doing like kṣatriya. So it is government's duty to see that Bālajī's money, Kṛṣṇa's money, is to the farthing spent for His mission. That is your duty. That is government's duty, that nothing is misused, nothing is misrepresented. But we know how to execute the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can know because direction is there. It is not a secret thing. It is open secret. But you have to act upon it. That requires training. And so far my experience goes, the whole world will take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately, I am struggling single-handed. And they are criticizing me in the Parliament. You have seen the recent article Blitz against me? What is that heading? "Ungodly face." I am doing ungodly? But they are advertising like that. Trying to make me unpopular. The Māyāvādīs, they say that Bhaktivedanta Swami is ruining Hinduism. They are saying like that. (Hindi) So I am being criticized in Parliament, I am criticized by the so-called jagad-gurus who have never seen what is jagat. And so on, so on.
Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: They cannot be, cannot be.

Prabhupāda: Cannot be, yes. But they say equal.

Indian man: No. They don't say that equal.

Prabhupāda: They say like that.

Indian Devotee: The Barishus(?) recently said that.

Indian man: Don't take it from one sentence and try to enlarge it. Take it in the context.

Indian Devotee: They always say this.

Prabhupāda: I do not hear. You hear, he hears. If he says something else... That... This is therefore Caitanya's philosophy is acintya-bhedābheda, that as ātmā, they're equal. Ātmā. But one is Paramātmā, because He is maintainer. Therefore...

Indian man: Yes. All the creation, the world. It is one way out of that Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: Paramātmā. So therefore Paramātmā is the Supreme, and he is subordinate. So how the Supreme and subordinate can be equal?

Indian man: No, they can never be equal. Never be equal and never and... No philosophy, even any branch of philosophy does not say that a human being is equal to....

Prabhupāda: No, their philosophy is, as you say, that this subordinate ātmā has forgotten that he is Paramātmā.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Lokanātha: Yes. Each room has a fan, bath...

Prabhupāda: It is (indistinct).

Krishna Modi: That is perfect.

Prabhupāda: I think air-conditioned?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some rooms are air-conditioned, two or three...

Prabhupāda: As far as your governor Reddy, he went. He stayed there two days. He has certified... He sent me a recent letter, you'll be surprised. Ask Harikeśa to bring that letter. Latest letter from Chatterjee.

Krishna Modi: No I have seen that. I have seen that.

Prabhupāda: Latest?

Krishna Modi: Latest. Also I heard that this Channa Reddy, Governor of the U.P.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one of our Gurukula children.

Prabhupāda: Let us cooperate. You'll see how I can change the face of India.

Krishna Modi: Let us train some members also.

Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He says that "I'm avatāra." So therefore it should be addressed to him. He says. So address to Satya Sai Baba. Where is he, at Bombay?

Pradyumna: No, he stays at this Putaparti or in Bangalore.

Prabhupāda: Putaparti...

Pradyumna: That is a small village.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Post office, Putaparti. And it is in, where Bangalore?

Pradyumna: That is in Andhra.

Prabhupāda: Andhra. Hmm. Dear Sai Baba, just recently in the Blitz paper, published on—give the date—we were surprised to find one article "God is an Indian." And you have claimed to become an incarnation of God to save the human society. What is the ground of your claiming as incarnation? And what you have done to save the human society? Will you explain for enlightenment of us. Or many of us. We have got the list of incarnations recorded in the Vedic scriptures and their respective activities also. So where is that record in the Vedic scripture about your appearing as incarnation? Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is fully described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnationship or give... What it should be?

Pradyumna: Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnation...

Prabhupāda: There may be so many, but I mean to say Lord Kṛṣṇa is incarnation, so avatāratva. So what is the English? Avatāratva?

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can give up to that Yāmunācārya's quotation. What you have written.

Pradyumna: So far? Everything? Or just... Only, is one's word only...

Prabhupāda: What you have written.

Pradyumna: "Dear Sai Baba, just recently..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Last what you have written.

Pradyumna: "Similarly, Lord Rāma's incarnation, Lord Buddha's incarnation, Lord Caitanya's incarnationness, we have got full information from the Vedic scriptures. Where is your incarnation described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is an incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only the proof of one's becoming an incarnation? Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God. But we see in the Bhagavad-gītā that God is never formless."

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) Only the rascals and less intelligent class of men think that God is formless and when He incarnates, He takes a particular form. In this connection, a verse from Yāmunācārya may be quoted as follows. You have quoted the Bhagavad-gītā? That quote?

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:
Prabhupāda: If we want to educate the cats and dogs that "My dear dog, you are not this body. You are different from this body. You are spirit soul, Brahman," he has no capacity to understand. And a human being, however fallen he may be, if he is educated, he can understand about the position of spirit soul and how to become free from this material bondage. So in India we have got immense Vedic literature for understanding this business of the soul. And in human form of body, if we do not take care of the spiritual portion of our life, then we are making suicide. That is the proposal of all great personalities born in India, ācāryas like.... Recent.... Formerly, there were big, big ācāryas like Vyāsadeva and others. Devala. Many, many ācāryas. And the recent, within, say, one thousand five hundred years there are, there were many ācāryas like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and within five hundred years Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They have also given us many literatures about this spiritual knowledge. But at the present moment this spiritual knowledge is neglected. So it is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message to the whole world that every one of you, you become guru, a spiritual master. So how everyone can become a spiritual master? To become a spiritual master is not easy job. One must be very learned scholar and must have full realization of the self and everything. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us a little formula, that if you strictly follow the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and if you preach the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, then you become guru. The exact words used in Bengali, it is said, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). To become guru is very difficult job, but if you simply carry the message of Bhagavad-gītā and try to convince anyone you meet, then you become a guru. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is without any malinterpretation. If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in our own way that is not very good. If you have got a different opinion, you can preach your philosophy. Everyone is free. But one should not take Bhagavad-gītā and through Bhagavad-gītā one will try to preach his own philosophy. That is very bad. You should not do that. Then the authority of Bhagavad-gītā is lost. If everyone can interpret in his own way, then where is the authority of the Bhagavad-gītā? Just like in the Vedas... We take Vedas as the authority. But if you interpret in your own way and squeeze out some meaning in your own way, then where is authority of the Vedas? So our special stress on this point is that don't squeeze out some meaning of Bhagavad-gītā for your own convenience. Present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people will be benefited. And that is being practically seen. We are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You have seen our book?
Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: I think so. Because there is a cultural department in the central government but they do not know what is culture. Just see.

Interviewer: What is the difference between God consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: There is no difference. The same thing. Kṛṣṇa is God. (break)

Interviewer: What is, sir, the number of your disciples round the world?

Prabhupāda: Dedicated life—not less than ten thousand. And admirers, there are many millions. Recently one American politician has remarked in Houston, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading like epidemic. So unless we take some steps it may take our government." (laughter)

Interviewer: Who was the man who said it?

Hari-śauri: A government official in Houston.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is his name? You can give.

Hari-śauri: His name was not given.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Simply it is said a government official.

Interviewer: He said on the floor of the House or outside?

Hari-śauri: Said it on the TV.

Haṁsadūta: Houston. Houston, Texas. (everyone talking at once.)

Interviewer: Are you getting any opposition from the church?

Prabhupāda: No. That is very favorable. No. Otherwise, it was impossible. At least in America they have never prevented me. But in Europe especially in England and Germany, they, the Christian group, they are little angry with me. But so far America, they are very liberal. They never put any impediments in my movement. Rather, government appreciates. The appreciated one point, that the American younger generation, they have become addicted to this LSD, intoxication, and they have spent millions of dollars to stop this, but they could not. But they are surprised that as soon as this LSD man becomes my disciple, he gives up immediately.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: What is the price of this edition?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is, in America it's seven dollars, seven dollars ninety-five cents.

Prabhupāda: And what the home member has said?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The home minister recently said that he wants this movement to be spread all over the world. One of the prominent people said he wants this movement to be spread all over the world.

Interviewer: Now, sir, from your lips, how to attain this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and to maintain it?

Prabhupāda: Once you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will maintain. You won't have to...

Interviewer: No, from your own, direct from your lips how to...

Prabhupāda: No, this direction is there in the Bhagavad-gītā that... Find out this verse, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is very simple thing.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Hari-śauri: The order forms.

Prabhupāda: Original orders, that should be copied and sent. This arrangement, ask them all over India and beside that we have recently got a testimony of one University authorities, just like one Goswami from Calcutta University and many others they have got. These copies should be sent immediately. We can approach even the chief justice of Allahabad high-court, he came here, the minister here, the governor of Punjab, he came to see me, the governor...

Hari-śauri: Andhra Pradesh government also.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Andhra Pradesh, chief minister.

Hari-śauri: Immediately (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Minister, Vṛndāvana. Collect all these and send it that this is a genuine movement because it is great cultural movement. Therefore, Swami Bhaktivedanta wanted to give it to Europe who are in the darkness. So anyway, now they are feeling the action of the medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: So it goes on, (continues reading) "In Judaism we find the blowing of the shofar, or ram's horn, and in the orthodox synagogue there is separation of men and women. Differences of dress are expressed amongst orthodox Jews and amongst various Christian orders. Our own Pilgrim ancestors differed in dress form the popish gentry of their time. I have studied and tested the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and have not found them to be weird or insane, only different form the mainstream. Like any other evangelical or proselytizing religion, their converts could only become converts if they choose to believe. For example, no one can drag a person to a Baptist Church and brainwash him into taking God into his heart, he has to want to accept willingly. No one is ever held against their will by the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. I have never seen it, nor have my colleagues ever seen it. In examining the various members of this religion, I have not found one who appears to be brainwashed or dopey like. In fact their mental health and normality astounds me. If you cannot accept Kṛṣṇa, God, they will sympathize with you and hope that you will eventually find Him and will wish you well as you go on your way. There have been devotees who have left the movement and have said negative things about it, but the sour grapes syndrome is not unusual for dropouts anyway. I wonder how many West Point dropouts vilify the Army, or how many Seminary drop outs leave and disdain their religion? After a rational person spends time with the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and learns to understand them, he could never believe them to be guilty of the charges which have been made here in New York recently."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, positive.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Ceylon is educated and if they are receiving, why not open a branch?

Hari-śauri: (continues reading) "He recently returned home after almost 3 years in India. My husband and I could see the awareness and maturity in him gained from his experiences in working with the Indian people. He learned first-hand about a different culture and it certainly has enriched his life. In our minds we can compare our son's life to the life of a Catholic monk or a religious Jew of the Hasidic sect. Do I think that my son is brainwashed? I can best answer this by answering the question, is our whole society not being brainwashed daily by the advertisement media? Liquor, smoking, pornographic movies and literature and which is worse? And what about the children who are being educated by the violence and killing on T.V.? I prefer that my son is devoting his life to the love of God and the service of humanity, a rare endeavor in this age. Since I know that my son has voluntarily chosen the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement to exercise these rights and that he can leave it whenever he wishes I cannot see how the term 'brainwashing' can be applicable to this movement. I sincerely believe from my contacts with many devotees that they are happy and have found fulfillment by loving and serving Lord Kṛṣṇa, God. This may not be my wish for my life but my son has chosen it for his, and I whole heartedly respect it."

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What they'll say? There is nothing to say. They do not go and even they go, they take photograph from millions of miles. What is the value of these things? But people are accepting that "Oh, scientific research." Perhaps I am the only man in the world who is protesting. (laughs) Eh? Everyone is accepting, "Oh, it is scientific."

Hari-Sauri: People are being duped now into believing that advancement means simply to research. Not to actually find out anything valuable, but just to do some research. They think that that's the whole thing, education is just to research.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the European, you don't get the result, go on researching and spoil the money.

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa has manufactured everything in such a complicated way, that their search is never-ending.

Prabhupāda: That article written by Svarūpa Dāmodara in the recent Back to Godhead.

Hari-Sauri: That was not.... Oh, which one?

Prabhupāda: The recent this.

Hari-Sauri: The newest one? That was not by Svarūpa Dāmodara. That was by...

Prabhupāda: You have got?

Hari-Sauri: Dāmodara Dāsa and Jagjīvana.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Svarūpa Dāmodara is different. Oh.

Hari-śauri: This is more like a commentary than science, as it exists today.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: There will be proper rainfall. And if there is proper rainfall, then you get sufficient food grains, not only food grains, other things also. Sarva-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the earth you can get all the necessities of life. Actually you are getting food grains, minerals, trees, fruits, flowers, everything from the earth. Sarva-dughā, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. This mahī, when it is soaked with proper rains, it becomes fertile. Therefore we have to depend on the rainfall. There is one verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya means rainfall. Rainfall means it is supplying all the necessities of life. And this rainfall will be easy when there is yajña. And nobody is performing yajña; therefore nowadays rainfall is scarcity. In Europe recently I have seen, there is no rainfall, whole Europe. It is on the verge of drying everything. So this punishment will come in this Kali-yuga. There will be no rainfall, and there will be not sufficient food supply, and the government will simply levy taxes on different pleas and people will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their hearth and home and flee away to the forest. It is stated. So therefore you must perform yajña. And that is very easy in this age. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). You cannot perform the former yajñas by sacrifice tons of ghee and grains because you have no sufficient food grains even. But still, if you chant this saṅkīrtana, that is yajña. Therefore you must take to saṅkīrtana-yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. It is very easy. (break) ...the duty of human being, prāṇaiḥ, with life, arthaiḥ, with money, dhiyā, with intelligence, and vācā, by words. If one sacrifices his life for Kṛṣṇa's cause, then it is first-class. If he cannot sacrifice his life for Kṛṣṇa he can contribute his hard-earned money for Kṛṣṇa.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Dr. Ramachandra: I think you're right in saying that the government has rejected it, in that sense.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is religion. That is the difficulty. Religion is here. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion.

Guest (9): Recently a political party also has alleged that ISKCON temples have become abode of the CIA agents.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): What do you say for it?

Prabhupāda: We are detecting who is irreligious. That's all. That is our business.

Guest (3): They are detecting who is irreligious.

Prabhupāda: He is going on in the name of religion, but he does not know what is religion. So that we are detecting. You can say like that. This is our business.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what to speak of others. His ambition was Hindu-Muslim unity. So that was banned.

Guest (1): Total failure.

Prabhupāda: His ambition was nonviolent—he was killed by violence. So what to speak of others? A person so dedicated, so nice, but he followed the wrong path. Recently I had been to his Sevasram in Wardha. So there was no Kṛṣṇa worship and he said that he is very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. But he understood Bhagavad-gītā in his own way.

Guest (1): (laughing) In a different way, I would say.

Prabhupāda: And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, as soon as you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, it is finished. It is finished. Naṣṭa. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So naṣṭa cheese, what is naṣṭa, what is the use of...?

Guest (1): It should be destroyed. No use to it.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if I supply you something which is spoiled, then what benefit you will derive? Therefore no benefit is derived by the people in general either from Gandhi or Vinoba Bhave or Tilak because it was naṣṭa.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: Would you like to include Gandhi also in that?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Otherwise, how it can be? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31).

Indian man: But he was the one who also preached Gītā.

Prabhupāda: But he did not know Gītā. Actually. Recently I have been in his āśrama. They are maintaining the chattai (?) and the lantern in memory. What is that? If Mahatma Gandhi understood Gītā, he should have introduced that āśrama in Gītā. Where is that? The chattai (?) food arrangement is there.

Indian man: So that is done by his disciples and not by him. He never...

Prabhupāda: That means he could not make his disciple correctly.

Indian man: That is true. That is true.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he did not know. Now see how my disciples are working all over the world within ten years. I am sitting here, still going on, my business. So you have to train in such a way. The Deity worship is going on. Bring that recent Denver pictures. They are now opening different branches, establishing Deity exactly in the way I have trained. It is a question of training.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: It is there in śāstras.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you don't care for the śāstras, if you manufacture your own way, then, as it is stated, na siddhiṁ sāvāpnoti. You'll never be successful. Na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. Neither happiness nor better life will be next or the supreme goal. These things finished. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). If you do not take the guidance of the śāstra then all your hope is finished. You can hope, but you'll never... This is our... Therefore we follow the śāstras and we teach others to follow śāstras. If you like you can do. Otherwise do whatever you like. But you don't manufacture and spoil my life and others. You don't do.

Indian man: There was some trouble with your movement in America recently.

Prabhupāda: We don't care for this trouble. If you are sincere it is all right. We are facing so many difficulties. We don't care for it. We never compromise. All my students, they will never compromise. Why shall I compromise? If I am confident that I am speaking the truth, why shall I make compromise? Those who are not confident of his position, they will make compromise. One who does not know where he stands, he will make compromise. And if I know where I am standing, why shall I make compromise? Let others do whatever he likes. This is our position.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. (chuckles)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but the scholars, the Russian scholars, know... (break)

Prabhupāda: They have published their photograph in the paper. They take it, whatever... But the things are already there. So "Dear Mr. such and such, I thank you very much for your greetings card received recently. This cultural movement is depending in future on Russian intelligence and Indian culture. On this cultural movement, recently our Stockholm center has published one book..." What it is written here?

Jagadīśa: Easy Journey to Other Planets.

Prabhupāda: In Russian language?

Jagadīśa: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: "Easy Journey to Other Planets. So this is a different culture, how to go to other planetary system, how to transfer the soul from one body to another. In other planets there are also living entities. One can transfer himself, after giving up this body, to anywhere he likes without any help of the sputnik, and without the help of the sputnik or any flying machine. This is the mystic system unknown to the world, but it is authorized in the Vedas, original culture of the human civilization."

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Fifth Avenue.

D. D. Desai: Yes. They're pulling the chariot.

Prabhupāda: You might have seen.

D. D. Desai: I think San Francisco or somewhere?

Girirāja: This is very recent, in New York.

Prabhupāda: People become mad, and the papers admitted, "Here is the place for East and West to meet." And the police were so satisfied, they said, "Next year we shall make very, very nice arrangement."

Guest (1): Unfortunately what has happened, that several movements have merged.

Prabhupāda: This is not one of the several movements.

Guest (1): No. These people have confusion in their mind. One of course is CIA, then then FBI, then this hippie, then this narcotic people and...

Prabhupāda: Hundreds there are. But what we have got to do with them?

Guest (1): They're addicted with those things. And also some of our own Transcendental Meditation and so forth, all these things are creating some mental confusion and lack of certain clarity which is...

Prabhupāda: But we must have eyes to see. What they have got, position? All these, they go and come. But here it is entering into the core of the heart of the younger generation. They are becoming mad after it. One should have eyes to see. And therefore the authorities are afraid that "Younger generation, if they..." Here is one book by Professor Stillson Judah. He's a great, learned scholar. After five years study on this movement he has written this book, Hare Krishna and Counterculture. He has given his verdict that "This movement will stay." He has very thoroughly studied the statistics and meeting every member, in this way. There are many books about us, small and big. But here is a responsible master of religious studies.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Our New Vrindaban... (break) ...that we must give something substantial. (break) This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). (Hindi—break)

Indian (1): Now it has been introduced, Hindi also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You saw Hindi... (breaks)... Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata. (Hindi) languages. Bengali. (Hindi—breaks) ...we received. We have recently received one telegram.

Indian (1): Those are big volumes. It takes time to read it, to go through it. And just a small booklet, a man can keep it in his pocket.

Prabhupāda: We have got three classes. Medium class and the...

Indian (1): Volume.

Prabhupāda: Volume, no. Hardbound big books, and small books. Besides that, magazines. So in one week what we have sold, they have sent one telegram from Los Angeles.

Jagadīśa: December 17 through 24th. That's Christmas week. They sold 117,664 big books.

Prabhupāda: 117,000.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): Misunderstood Gītā. Now even they are not study. You see, there is no study at all. It is an unfortunate thing here. In our educational system, the slave system coming from British regime, still it is not changed. Unfortunately, whatever change we see, that change goes anti-religion. So the present generation is suffering.

Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.

Indian (1): They have lost culture, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is change.

Devotee: So Śrīla Prabhupāda is offering the real Indian culture...

Indian (1): Yes, that is correct. We have to fulfill all these things. We have to teach them, we have to guide them, advise them, make them study, for that purpose conducting some classes in Sanskrit in the Hindu community... (break)

Prabhupāda: He has allowed us to go to the United... (break) ...assembly to enlighten them. So we, are going there. Recent letter? Where is...? (end)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): It's a very good idea, then, to follow it. I'm quite serious.

Prabhupāda: And they are democratic. It can pull down even a President like Nixon. So if they like, if the majority becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, they can make Kṛṣṇa conscious government. There is no, I mean to say, wonder in it. So anyway, because these youngsters in the Western countries, both in Europe and America, are taking... And the recent telegram we have received... Just see how many books we have sold. (aside:) Make it little less.

Guest (2) (Indian man): (reading telegram) "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our humble obeisances. Here are the saṅkīrtana marathon results for all of ISKCON worldwide for the week of December 17th to 24th."

Prabhupāda: One week's report.

Guest (2): Yes. And that, too, before Christmas. "One lakh 17,644 big books, 90,777 medium books, 63,322 small books, 4 lakh 37,420 BTG..."

Guest (1): Back to Godhead magazine.

Girirāja: That's our magazine.

Guest (2): Right."And 7 lakh 9,686 total." This has come from...

Guest (1): Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Our headquarters.

Trivikrama: One week.

Guest (2): New York. This is from New York.

Guest (1): It's coming from New York, but it's the same for all over America.

Prabhupāda: All over the world.

Guest (2): "We offer our sincere congratulations. It is, of course, the hand of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Seventeen lakhs copies of our literature sold in one week.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): I think, with all due respect, many Indians are trying to do things in their own religious sect or in their own districts.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is doing.

Guest (2): Well, I mean, if you had been to Bharatpur recently, about 5,200 beds were there for netra-yajña, for the eyes operation.

Prabhupāda: I know that. That I know. But I am speaking of this culture.

Guest (2): Culture, yes.

Guest (1): That is a difficulty one is giving.(?)

Guest (2): Because in observing karma-phela, somebody's taking care of. In bhakti...

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In Bhagavad-gītā there is no such statement that you take care of the eyes of the people. There is no such statement. That is your manufactured idea. But we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is the difference. Our preaching is that instead of giving relief to the eyes, give him relief in such a way he hasn't got to accept any more this body with eyes. You cannot make a solution of the problem. Somebody is taking care of the eyes, somebody's taking of the finger, somebody of the hair, somebody of another, genital, and so on, so on. This will not solve the problem. The problem is, as it is said in the Bhagavad..., janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is intelligence. As soon as you take birth, then you'll have eyes, you'll have eye trouble, vyādhi. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. If you accept janma-mṛtyu, then between janma-mṛtyu there is vyādhi and jarā. You have to accept. You may give some relief, but you have to accept. So that is not solution. The solution is how to stop this janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is solution. That is bigger solution. So we are giving that thing—there will be no more eyes' trouble. The main disease... Suppose one man is diseased, so sometimes he is feeling headache, sometimes eye-ache, sometimes finger-ache, and you are applying some medicine for headache. That is not the solution. The solution is that this man is suffering from this disease. How to cure it? So Bhagavad-gītā is meant for that purpose. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). And as soon as you accept body, kleśada... Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Asann api. This body is not permanent. So because the body is not permanent, the disease also not permanent. So Kṛṣṇa's advice is tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). You make the solution—that is the greatest solution—that how to stop janma-mṛtyu. But that they do not know, that this can be stopped. They are simply busy with their temporary problems. And they are taking it as very great. What is great? Suppose if you have got a boil here. Simply by pinprick. (makes blowing sound) Will it cure? There must be surgical operation. Get out the pus.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is the test. Guru... The supreme guru is Kṛṣṇa, and anyone canvasses for Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, guru's represent... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya. That guru will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. I am now guru. I am Kṛṣṇa. I am avatāra." That is rascaldom. So if you want such rascal, then you'll be cheated. (aside:) Who is bringing prasāda? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Everything is there. Read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Don't misinterpret. That has killed our culture. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they stand: "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. Even recently I had been in Gandhi's aśrama. It is a desert. He was student of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. Vinobhaji also never teaches Kṛṣṇa, but he's a Gītā-pravacana. What Gītā-pravacana without Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is doing that, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. What is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Guest (2): A glass without water.

Prabhupāda: If big, big men do like that, then what the followers will do? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). This is the position of our country, that everyone has misguided in the name of leadership, and people are in bewilderment—"What to do?"

Guest (2): But different... I mean... It was predicted that this may happen.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they invent their theories. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptir, and these rascals says "Once." Just see.

Dr. Patel: The rascals have also realized now that there is a dehāntara-prāptir because the parapsychology has proved beyond doubt so many examples recently, at present, that there is a rebirth. People who are reborn and know their past births. They have recognized their parents, their places and secret things also. There was a patient in Rajastan. One was in Northwest India. There was one in South America. They were all published in medical bulletins.

Gurudāsa: People accept them?

Dr. Patel: Gradually.

Prabhupāda: Medical science do not accept the soul. Then how it is possible, next birth?

Dr. Patel: They have to accept. In the teaching of physiology, what we call certain vital forces which we don't understand, they are, this is nothing but God there. What is vital force? What is vital force? It's the soul, sir.

Prabhupāda: Vague idea. Not clear.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.

Rāmeśvara: But one recent development which will change that is that they have appealed to the government that they are an educational group. Therefore they should be tax exempt like any other educational organization, and the government has agreed. Now they have gotten their tax exemption, so now these parents can donate lots of... Different people will start donating lots of money to them as tax write-offs. So I think that we will see that their activities will be expanded this year, because now they are tax exempt, they'll get a lot of money.

Hari-śauri: That news article said that someone had given them $105,000. Some parents of a cult...

Prabhupāda: No, there are rich parents. They can do that. And every parent is unhappy. (chuckles)

Rāmeśvara: The fighting will increase this year. It's getting very acute, as you said in that letter.

Prabhupāda: So they are feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: We're becoming the main target. Formerly it was this Reverend Moon, but his movement has been..., so many scandals, that it is beginning to lose its appeal to people. So now we are the main target faced. That is the most significant thing about this newsletter, that they are saying that "Formerly Reverend Moon... But he has already been exposed. So now let us direct all our energy against Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: But they do not know whom to expose. That they do not know. That's nice.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?

Guest (4) (Indian man): No, they feel so proud because...

Prabhupāda: Foolish.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: If President Nixon had written a commentary on the Bible, no one in America would accept it. Then why should they accept Radhakrishnan's?

Prabhupāda: No, Radhakrishnan may say so, but who has accepted? You are, because you are a fool. Same argument, that people have passed urine on his face, and they are worshiping. They have not stopped Kṛṣṇa worshiping because Radhakrishnan has said, restriction. (?) Who cares for him? Vṛndāvana, there are five thousand temples. Every day thousands of people are coming. We have started Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple very recently, and thousands of men are coming. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? Daye mane nāpa ni more (?) "Nobody cares for him; he becomes leader." What is the value of such leader? If somebody cares for that person, then he's leader. Nobody cares for him? He's leader for you because you are a rascal. You do not know anything. So he may be leader for men like you, but India... Nobody cares for him. Is it not? Who cares for Radhakrishnan?

Hari-śauri: Nobody mentions Radhakrishnan.

Prabhupāda: Who cares for Vivekananda? Who cares for Dayananda? Nobody cares. They are doing their own business. Still, daily two lakhs of contributions in Vaikuṇṭhanātha temple, Tirupati, still. Who is paying their money? Ordinary payers. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? India is not so fool that by the words of Radhakrishnan they will stop worshiping Kṛṣṇa, will not worship Kṛṣṇa. India, although poverty-stricken, illiterate, but they have got their still... All, millions of people, will come in this Mela. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? There are so many atheists came and gone, things are going on as it is. This is culture.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: This will show, this movie will show, that Vaiṣṇava is very authorized.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is widespread. Because that... They are criticizing.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this, this, this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, this śloka, was cited just little after the creation. That means millions and millions of years ago. Now, not recently. Many millions and billions of years ago. That is the oldest. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). Whichever item you take, it is very, very... Just like this Parīkṣit Mahārāja. That is at least five thousand years ago. So where is the history of the human society in the Western countries? They cannot give history more than three thousand years.

Rāmeśvara: They think it is simply caveman.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Prehistoric. They call it pre—history, living in caves, monkey men. Also I was thinking, in the movie they can take the testimonial of different scholars and professors in India about your books and about chanting as a process for awakening the mind, because they are accusing us that "By chanting, you are killing your brain." So if we take...

Prabhupāda: That, it is acting, rascal, on brain. We are teaching or giving them process. That you cannot understand. But our mantra is so strong that it is acting on the brain. So why don't you take this side, that "If we are simply chanting and it is acting on the brain, even from your side, that it is so strong that we are giving up everything for this process. So how much this chanting is strong, why don't you see to that?"

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that "India is so poor and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor, so what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not... Therefore they are... The Indian rascals, they using this income of Bālaji for industry. They are bringing, that "The poor people, on account of their innocence, they are blindly, so..." Communist movement is against us because we are constructing costly temples, crores and rupees. This could have been utilized in industry. That is their protest. Temple construction was practically stopped in India. And I have again revived. Nobody was interested to construct temple anywhere within the recent at least hundred years or fifty years.

Hari-śauri: Only the Birlas.

Prabhupāda: Ah, only Birlas, yes.

Rāmeśvara: In America, if we collect money saying we are sending it to India, if we tell them we are sending it to build a temple in India, they will not give one penny. They think "India has too many temples. They need money for food, for technology."

Prabhupāda: So we can take money for food. That is also our program.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Would you like to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Have you been to Purī for a long time?

Prabhupāda: Oh, several times.

Hari-śauri: I mean in recent years or...

Prabhupāda: No. Recently I'm not going because my disciples are not allowed. I don't wish to go.

Gargamuni: I was here during Durgā-pūjā, and there were thousands of people entering that temple, thousands. I mean... There was just a tide all day long. So I know if we have a temple...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Last I went to see, before going to USA, in 1958.

Rāmeśvara: Almost twenty years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. 1958, yes. After that, I had no chance of going.

Rāmeśvara: There's no doubt that if we build a temple there it must be very, very magnificent.

Prabhupāda: Because after some years I went to USA, in 1966, er '65. 1958 or '59, I went there. For four, five years naturally. And after going to USA there was no chance.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Only?

Gargamuni: Yes. I saw one... In Gopalpur I saw one built in 1938 called Blue Haven, and there was nothing left of it. The whole thing just corroded away. There was just a few things left. And the sign, the marble sign said 1938.

Prabhupāda: 1930 is very recent.

Gargamuni: So that's a matter of thirty, fourty years. There was nothing left of the cement, and the bricks were finished. So we'd have to take careful advice of making it out of stone.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Stone or marble.

Prabhupāda: In Bhuvaneśvara you can have stone.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: To build such a big temple you'll need many devotees.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Pūjārīs, cooks, collectors, life members. You need at least fifty devotees. So it's going to take a little while to get...

Prabhupāda: Big temple means at least fifty men.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Gauḍīya Matha. Gauḍīya Matha.

Gargamuni: Yes. Because no one is maintaining, and he has no followers, and, he knows, when he dies then there's nothing. So he was interested. And not only him, but his supporters were also pushing him to sign it over, and they had agreed. But then the war broke out, and I left, and I think a lot of them have been killed who were his main finance backers. He had some lawyers and doctors who were donating, but I think they have all been killed. So now he has no one. So recently some of our men have gone to Dacca for visa to come back, and he's still interested, more so now.

Prabhupāda: He's not killed.

Gargamuni: No. He survived.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Long life.

Gargamuni: Yes. He's very old. I think he's eighty, eighty-five or something. So I have to leave the country by the thirtieth 'cause my visa is finished. So I was thinking that I should go to Dacca for a few days and meet him again and see about this land and also whether we can get the society registered in Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda: That you can...

Gargamuni: Yes. Well, a Muslim state, but maybe he can help us. And I want to see if he's really serious or whether he... You know...

Prabhupāda: He was under whose control?

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: We could come...

Prabhupāda: If... The Ganges comes in this way. Then you come to Bengal, Bay of Bengal—this side, Orissa, this side, East Bengal. Is it not?

Gargamuni: Yes. They recently went to Sagar Island, and they did very nice saṅkīrtana there. But this boat is not large enough, and it's also very... It takes so much time.

Prabhupāda: So why not another boat like that?

Gargamuni: But you can't get a larger boat than that, and it's too small. Our temple is too small. We need a longer boat with a larger temple for the...

Prabhupāda: You require a steamer like?

Gargamuni: A small steam..., a small fishing boat like those fishing boats. They have these big...

Prabhupāda: It is run by petrol?

Gargamuni: No. Diesel.

Prabhupāda: Diesel.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So he brought some men from Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Yes. He brought some people in a tourist bus.

Prabhupāda: Indian?

Gargamuni: Yes. We have noticed recently many tourist buses there in Māyāpur now. They are coming from other areas, middle class people. They rent this tourist bus, and they have been touring Māyāpur. Sometimes they come and at the time of prasādam they ask, "Can we get our food here? We're about forty persons." So we take them over to the prasādam pavilion and they take. But this was never before. Never was there a tourist bus in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: Never.

Prabhupāda: No. So you shall go? What is the time?

Hari-śauri: Ten past six.

Gargamuni: I think it's still a little dark.

Hari-śauri: No, it's light. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: With a covering letter: "Sir, there is much agitation about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll kindly read this following pamphlet, and you'll understand the value of the movement." And it is good that you have given the heading, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement."

Rāmeśvara: So this is a study published in Los Angeles Times on January 2nd. It says, "The year 1976 could mark the beginning of a new religious revival in America, judging from recent Gallop surveys of public opinion. The surveys found: 1) For the first time in nearly twenty years there was an increase in church attendance"—first time in twenty years—"with 42% of all adults in America attending church or synogogue in any typical week." Once a week 42% of the adult population, almost half. "2) The proportion of Americans who believe that religion is increasing its influence on American life has tripled since 1970." In other words the public thinks that religion is now influencing American life. The number of people who think like that has gone up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is due to this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Rāmeśvara: I think so.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Actually religion means spiritual.

Rāmeśvara: But they say religion means going to church once a week. That's their religion.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's...

Rāmeśvara: But spiritual is something different. So they say "A recent survey indicates that a projected six million people are participating in the Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation. Five million are practicing yoga in one form or another." Mostly for health. "Three million in the charismatic movements." That is like the cults. "Three million in mysticism, and two million in Eastern religions." That's a lot of people they have estimated are participating in Eastern religion.

Prabhupāda: Eastern Indian.

Rāmeśvara: Mostly us, and some bogus so-called gurus.

Hari-śauri: Those charismatic movements, that's like the Jesus Christ movement. The Catholic preachers call that charismatic.

Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...

Prabhupāda: They come to us.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So I am anxious to receive report from Satsvarūpa Mahārāja.

Satsvarūpa: The library party?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: He's bringing... I have a map of all that they've done very recently. Right now they're in Germany.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We have received one telegram from where? Poland.

Devotee (1): Poland University.(?)

Satsvarūpa: Harikeśa Mahārāja has programs in all those countries: Poland, Hungary...

Prabhupāda: He is very enthusiastic. (laughs)

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I asked him that "You go there." Rāmeśvara: Gargamuni Mahārāja has sold 550 standing orders in six months.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest (2): Yesterday one of my colleagues asked me, "What is this (Bengali)?" But we, the parents of Mother Earth forget about it. But Swamiji has started it not only Europe, America, he has started universal... Except India (Bengali)... You said that you are educated man, you go and hear lecture.

Prabhupāda: No, we are recognized by all educated circle all over the world. If you read the opinions of scholars.

Guest (2): We have read many of your publications. And I was just telling him like dharma that "Swamiji has done only one thing, that he has made the universe not only contained to India. He has made the whole world conscious about Kṛṣṇa. To know about Kṛṣṇa at least, the real Kṛṣṇa. Or the superpower. He has made this point.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to progress very cautiously, very cautiously, not irresponsibly. That is our point.

Guest (2): Recently I had been to Calcutta for the recording of this songs of kṛṣṇa-līlā. (Oriya or Bengali)

Guest (1): Yaśodā and Kṛṣṇa. (Oriya or Bengali)

Guest (2): Unless they go back to Kṛṣṇa, nobody can help us to that.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (end)

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Four years younger. Yes. But his health is nice. He looks younger. So in this book the whole incident is described. I have given everything in the commentary.

Guest (1): Everything is described. Only the thing is that we should get the sense and do in our action. That is the whole thing. Our roots are India...

Guest (2) (Indian man): Sir, how to bathe also it is mentioned.

Guest (1): Just a minute. Also India, in our country, in the recent history of our country, we had many cultured peoples like Gandhi and Patel. But how these two men became great, not others? Because only by their actions.

Prabhupāda: Our greatness in this country was considered on spiritual advancement.

Guest (2): Exactly. We Indian people, we know what is religion, not politics.

Prabhupāda: No. Politics is there. Politics means formerly the brāhmaṇas were the guide, teacher of the society, guide of the society. Brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas were not interested in politics. They would give advice to the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas would administer. Brāhmaṇas were not interested to take politics, from time immemorial, even during the time of Mahārāja Pṛthu. Not that the kṣatriyas were irresponsible, no. They were taking guidance from the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly persons, and they were ruling over. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was doing that. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was doing that. Lord Rāmacandra also.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Big work.

Guest (3): And recently we have taken up the editing of this manuscript from our...

Prabhupāda: Oh. It was in manuscript.

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas were so learned at that time. Therefore brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita. Panditaji. Still they're addressed. Brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita, kṣatriyas were addressed as Thakura, vaiśyas were addressed as Mahājana, and śūdras were addressed as Chaudhuri. Yes, still. In northern India this is the etiquette.

Guest (1): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.

Guest (2): Today somebody is a brāhmaṇa, tomorrow's he's kṣatriya, and day after tomorrow he's something else.

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: I told him this. He was interested. He was. But he told me, "Under the present..." The CIA used to give money to certain groups to stop Communism, he said, but recently they have been under investigation for this, so he said it would be very dangerous for them to do such a thing now. But he said he would talk it over. Since then, though, I have not met him. This was at the time when we were called CIA in Calcutta, when it came in the papers. I went to them for advice because they also became very much upset because just before that, the Consulate with his wife came to Māyāpur and saw all of our activities. They were very impressed. And they printed this in the newspaper, trying to show that the Consulate General was also an agent along with Bhavānanda. So he became very angry. He became very angry that they should try to make this up. He said, "Actually I had personally... My wife wanted to come, but I was not so much interested. But because my wife came, I came also. But I don't see why they are trying to link me along with your society as CIA." He said, "This is very bad." And from what I know, they made a formal complaint to the Home Minister of West Bengal, the Home Secretary.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: Then they accuse us of being fanatical.

Prabhupāda: You are also fanatical. Why do you believe Lenin? You are fanatical in our eyes. You are worse than fanatical because we have got great other authorities—they believe Kṛṣṇa is God. You have created a section recently, but we have got evidences from thousands and thousands of years ago, authorities believing Kṛṣṇa. Our literatures are very old. Your literature recently made.

Gargamuni: Sometimes, though, they may agree philosophically about Kṛṣṇa, but then they will bring in Kṛṣṇa's controversial personal life. They always do this.

Prabhupāda: Personal life?

Gargamuni: They bring in about, always about the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa.

Gurukṛpā: They just did that recently in Honolulu.

Gargamuni: Philosophically they may agree. But then they will go and attack Kṛṣṇa's...

Gurukṛpā: Character.

Gargamuni: His character.

Prabhupāda: But that... Because...

Gargamuni: Even in India they do. They say, "Rāma, He was better."

Prabhupāda: But what do you know about Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? You do not know anything. You are not a devotee. You have to learn the science. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati (BG 7.3). You are ordinary man. You cannot understand. Then one can criticize his father and mother also, that "My fa..." They do. Some rascal do that. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "My father has done harm to me. By lusty desire he gave me birth, and I am suffering." They say like that. So you can in that way, you criticize your father and mother. But that is not law. Law is father and mother should be respected. But you rascal, you can criticize your father. You are such a rascal.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and make two rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two. He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana cho(?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees. And educated? He's just like dog—"Give me job"—and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So we can go.

Satsvarūpa: You're already going tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Satsvarūpa: That man who came, who you were supposed to go on the 26th, and he was changed.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The same program?

Guest (9): Yes. The same program also.

Satsvarūpa: You were recently initiated?

Guest (9): Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Oh. That's the same program. So that is already fixed with Gaura-Govinda. You spoke with him, Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: I take my lunch at half past one. So by that time... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: And read them and argue on them. "Finish this argument; then give the judgment." Why don't you do it? Make an experiment?

Gurukṛpā: We've done that.

Hari-śauri: They're going to do that.

Gurukṛpā: We did that Śrīla Prabhupāda, just recently.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Gurukṛpā: They must take a lawyer, but they don't let you in court.

Prabhupāda: No, lawyer can say. Lawyer will say. We pay them: "Say this."

Hari-śauri: I think the New York part of the testimony is going to be... They're going to read the Bhagavad-gītā from cover to cover, everything. That's included in our defense.

Prabhupāda: One book, and we have got eighty-four books. Come on. At least our books will be advertised.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is bogus. Not only he, there are many. They'll simply repeat that. There are many. They come... Many devotees, our life members, big, big men, they come: "Swamiji, I experienced like this. Some man came. Some boy came." Means real purpose is that he wants to prove that he is already connected with higher planetary system. I have got many experiences. They say like that.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. I have met also life members saying things like this recently here.

Prabhupāda: So simply hear them. That's all. One big barrister, he was my friend. He is dead, M. C. Chatterji. He's a very big barrister. He used to charge sixteen thousand rupees for one appearance. So he was stating about when..., that he came to Vṛndāvana, and he met one boy, and "He asked me some sweets, I gave him sweet. Later on, when I was coming back to Delhi, I saw that boy was running on the train." He said. Such a big barrister, he said like that. "Oh, he was so..." Posturing like this. What can I say? "Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running after you in the train?" This is going on. Another friend's wife, she came to Jagannātha Purī. So Jagannātha Purī, those who are rich men, they are allowed to go near the Jagannātha. So that lady said that "While I was circumambulating, Jagannātha was snatching my cloth." Jagannātha became so much attached with that blackish woman that He began to snatch his (her) cloth. So many stories I know. So what can be said? "Why did you not remain with Jagannātha? Why you came back?" This is going on. So I have got experience of many such stories. Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running with his train. I have to take. And Jagannātha was snatching her cloth. They are very poisonous things. I was never fortunate with such incidences. I am simply trying to carry out the order of my Guru Mahārāja. That's all.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Then that will be complete.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually we started looking some on this astronomy thing. About this Sūrya-siddhānta. Sadāpūta is especially interested because he's a mathematician. So normally astronomy is subject of mathematics. So he found this copy in Princeton just recently, last month or so. There we found that the idea is very similar to modern science in the Sūrya-siddhānta. But we heard that Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda translated Sūrya-siddhānta, but we are not getting a copy of it. So he asked me to look in Calcutta, and some astrologers.

Prabhupāda: He had some disciples, some astronomer. His name can be had from Calcutta.

Pradyumna: Mohinī-mohana?

Prabhupāda: Ah! Mohinī Śāstrī. Mohinī Śāstrī. He was his disciple.

Pradyumna: I went to try... He's dead now.

Prabhupāda: He is also. He's passed away.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is the... What do you think? What is your definition of mahātmā?

Guest (1): Gītā said, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gītā says, but what you say? Recently I went to Wardha, Mahatma Gandhi's āśrama. Nobody is there. And they are worshiping Mahatma's lantern, and Mahatma's cādara. Not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles) There is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. And here it is said, bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. This is going on. So read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Learn. Everything is there. Make your life successful. That is our proposal. Come here. We have developed this center in good quarter. Discuss Bhagavad-gītā and try to do what Kṛṣṇa says. Make your life perfect. (Hindi) We are misguided. Misguided... (Hindi) Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā: "This mahātmā; this is God; this is function; this you have to do." Do it. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things anyone can do. A child can do.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage. Just like Guru Mahārāja. He's mahā-bhāgavata, but still he had to come to the second stage. He had to take precaution. That is natural. There are so many enemies of...

Jayapatākā: We were remembering how Nitāi had been poisoned, Nitāi and Yogānanda are your disciples. They were recently poisoned.

Prabhupāda: Hm. By whom?

Hari-śauri: Nitāi.

Jayapatākā: By bad association. Nitāi?

Prabhupāda: Ah hah, ah, yes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this Manasvī came one day to see Ādi-keśa and myself. You may recall in New York he had asked for a letter exonerating him. So you had told me to investigate. So I sent out a letter to three persons. Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and Śrutakīrti and Śukadeva. But none of them could find anything wrong with the accounts. Anyway, after a while I issued him one letter that at least to our... From our accounts we have not found anything wrong. Anyway, so I thought that would satisfy him. So recently he came, and now he says, "I am finding so much difficulty from my father-in-law. Because he lent me some money, now I have to pay back this money, and I'm having great difficulty, and I'm suffering on account of ISKCON has given me so much harassment against getting my citizenship here. So now the DA, the District Attorney has approached me, offering me money to speak things about this movement. Of course, I do not want to speak these things, but I am so much needing money." Blackmail. This man has become the blackest snake I have ever seen. So "I do not want to tell them anything." He told them everything he knows already. It's clear by the way he was talking that he's already spoken to them everything. So we told him that "We have nothing to hide. You may speak as much as you like. We have absolutely nothing to hide. So we cannot give you any money." Then again he called me on the telephone: "Now you have given me one letter which says that I was not doing anything wrong, but it is a fact that I have suffered so much. So my lawyer has advised me that I can sue the Society." So I pointed out to him that the letter I gave him was on ISKCON Inc. of New York letterhead, but the charges are against ISKCON Hawaii, which is a separate organization. So practically the letter has no value because I have no qualification for commenting on ISKCON Hawaii. I'm not an officer, nor do I have anything to do with them, so the letter is useless. I told him he can use it for... Well, anyway, I won't say... (laughter) Anyway. He's so black snake.

Prabhupāda: Black snake, yes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This widow life is also brahmacārī life. This printing is all right? At least for India it is very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The paper quality I saw that Gopāla is using now is getting much better.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The book could be sold anywhere in the world. The most recent publications of his could be sold anywhere.

Brahmānanda: His Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Very good.

Brahmānanda: When we were there he was putting together a Hindi Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: It was just going to the printer.

Prabhupāda: You have seen the printing?

Brahmānanda: No, he was just laying it out, getting ready to give for printing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is very ambitious to print all these books. He seems to be working on it day and night.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good team. Gargamuni is distributing, and Gopāla is publishing. Gargamuni has so many standing orders.

Prabhupāda: Encourage them. (devotees offer obeisances) Yes, jaya Narasiṁha. (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No? Recently, about a month ago... This will give you an indication of the nature of how many people are becoming in America, and especially the authorities are becoming very unjust. One man had a son in Texas and the boy was smoking marijuana. He was smoking for about a month or two. So for two weeks, when his father came to know, his father was telling him, "You should stop this smoking of marijuana," but the boy continued to smoke it. So one night the father came into the boy's room, took out a gun and shot his brains, killed him.

Prabhupāda: Killed him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killed his own son because he was smoking marijuana. He couldn't stand that the boy was smoking marijuana. Then after killing him he went to the police and turned himself in. So he came before the judge, woman judge, and he said that "I could not help it. This boy is my son, and look what he was doing. It is abominable. I had to kill him." And the judge said, "Yes, I can understand your feelings. It was intolerable." And she let the man go without one day jail sentence. No reprimand even. So this is the thing that is starting to happen now, that they are lobbying in the Congress in the United States to pass laws that if someone is abnormal, then the parents should have the right to commit him to psychological treatments. Even the child may be fifty years old and the parent may be seventy years old, if the parents think that child is not sane, then they have the right to get the child committed. So this is being passed in a couple of states, and already in California...

Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now these books I have read, either Bengali or Hindi, they are well-written, very convincing. All our books are convincing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a very handsome type of binding. It's called... I'm not sure who has done... I think the libraries do. It's called "permabound." It's your pocketbook edition but bound into a hard cover. Very handy book.

Prabhupāda: Recent publication?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't... I'm not... I don't think that actually the BBT did this binding. This is done by someone else, but somehow I managed... It was in my office, so I brought it with me. But it's very nice to get the small pocket-size book but with a hard cover. For traveling it's very handy. On the back it gives mention inside of..., what the binding is.

Prabhupāda: Where it is done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In USA. "Permabound" it's called.

Hari-śauri: That's like that plastic cover-type stuff.

Prabhupāda: It is half-bound.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perfect team of brothers.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has brought them here in Māyāpur. Previously they were advanced, all of you. You are simply born because the mission was to be started. Just like in Yadu-vaṁśa Kṛṣṇa ordered all the devotee demigods to "Go and take birth there to help Me." Similarly, you are also... You were born in Europe, America, to help this. Otherwise you were devotees in you past lives. I have explained that in my recent writings. The purport was mām eti: goes to Kṛṣṇa where His pastime is going on, and then they are transferred to the original. So all the devotees picked up and they were placed together where Kṛṣṇa is having His pastimes in either of these innumerable universes. He's going on. Just the moving... The sun is moving-little, little, little. So Kṛṣṇa's pastimes go on—this universe, that universe, that universe, that universe. In some universe He's present. In all universes present, that is called nitya-līlā. So those who are advanced, perfect devotees, first of all they are sent there and then, further trained up, they enter. Mām eti. Just like after passing the administration examination he's made one assistant of some magistrate, and then gradually he'll be promoted up to the high-court judge.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One recent case in Texas, I think I may have told Your Divine Grace, how the father killed his son while his son was sleeping, and the court said, "It is all right, because the father has so many feelings this boy was going bad, we should not interfere," even to the point of murdering the son. The court let him go. So this tendency is there now in the legal system. It's very lenient towards the parents, not towards the children.

Brahmānanda: Generally when the child is kidnapped, the parent is always present. And when they have the deprogramming torture session, the parent is also present.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And in fact, the persons who do a lot of the torturing are relatives.

Ādi-keśava: Just like in the case of Vasu-gopāla. When he was held in his house, he managed to get to the phone and call me. So we went out to his house with some of the brahmacārīs from the temple and starting breaking all the windows in the house and smacking down the doors. And as he was running around the house, his brothers and friends were grabbing him and throwing him down against the walls and locked him in a room to try to get him away from us, and they were fighting. Finally, they say in Ted Patrick's book, they thought there were twenty-five of us. There were only four of us or five of us. So finally, in the end, they were so terrified that all of them began to fight. Even this Ted Patrick came at me with a straight razor. In those cases, generally, they use the family members for the fighting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This clouds the issue in the courtroom, because everyone naturally feels very sympathetic towards the fathers and mothers. So always... These deprogrammers are very intelligent. They personally try to avoid the physical part, so they get the parents to do it.

Ādi-keśava: And then, if the person strikes out at the parent, they say, "Just see how crazy he's become!" Just like with Vasu-gopāla, he took a stick and hit his mother across the head and ran out shouting the name of Nṛsiṁha-deva as they were holding him captive, so he could run away. And so they said, "Just see how crazy he's become that he hit his own mother." Of course, the fact is they didn't mention they locked him in the bathroom for thirty hours just before. They kept him in a little bathroom. They locked the door, put him in there for thirty hours. All they mentioned is that he come out and hit her on the head with some stick. So then they say, "Just see! He's acting against his parents." So then the judge says, "Oh, what can I do? Naturally the father loves the son."

Prabhupāda: So why don't you quote from our śāstra that "He is not father." Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.

Tripurāri: Seems like a compromise.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are speaking about our movement now. Many people say to us that "You are selling out, compromising your position." And they...

Prabhupāda: This should be stopped, immediately. Why they are doing that without..., concocting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a great deal of not approval among many of the senior devotees.

Prabhupāda: So, immediately stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were looking through a recent issue of the magazine, the most recent issue, and we were...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is coming out.

Brahmānanda: That is there. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is there. It is fortunate you are... We were all noting that point. They cannot touch that.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is in the middle. (end)

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They're hired men. This is the case of one of their men who was later held for murder of another man. He was used in a deprogramming, and then later on, some months later, he murdered some man and went to jail for it. So they're very serious. It's not just philosophical arguments. There's a list here in this book we've made of the devotees in our movement who've been taken. This list is very recent, by temple. You can see in practically every temple they have taken some devotees, some who are..., most of them are back in our movement, but some who are not. But now their tactic is this legal thing. Now they get this legal conservatorship, and then even we go and save the devotee, we take them back, the police can come and arrest us. So in these cases we are finding that the only thing to do is sometimes to go and physically drag them away and hide them until the term of this thing is up. Another thing is we are giving, as we said yesterday, some asylum in other countries, like with Canada. And one thing is that the Indian government told me that they would give me asylum. The Ambassador told me that if I were to be held, the Indian government would give me asylum.

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has been under pressure from various groups, and this judgment is expected to stop some of the harassment to which it has been subjected in recent months."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very good.

Prabhupāda: So you purchase some copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. This is yesterday's Times of India from Bombay. When we get to Bombay we'll go to their office. We can buy back issues, I think. I don't know... I'll find out who... Abhirāma gave me this. "Published from Bombay, Delhi, and Ahmedabad."

Prabhupāda: Now we have got a sound position.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe it's in some other... I have the Sunday Statesman.

Prabhupāda: In the first page they have given, eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First page of Times of India.

Prabhupāda: And big heading?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is Bona Fide Religion." You couldn't pay for an advertisement this good.

Prabhupāda: So my mission is now successful.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: He'll be failure, but still-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham (BG 3.27)—by false egotism he's thinking, "I shall conquer over the material..." That is scientist, so-called scientist. Asuras are... They are planning that "We shall do without nature's control." That is mūḍha. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). They cannot conquer it. That is not possible. But you are struggling. You do not want the control of nature. And nature is so strong... Now it is raining. Within one hour they can vanquish the whole world. Doesn't take time. If there is one cyclone and heavy rain, then you are put into danger. So long it is mild, it is all right. And as soon as becomes ferocious, then finish you. What you'll control the nature? When there is no rain, you cannot bring in rain; and when there is heavy rain, you cannot stop it. Then where is your control? You rascal, you think like that, "We shall control over nature." This is your rascaldom. You cannot control over. So everything has its use, and how to use it properly, that is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And if you take instruction of Kṛṣṇa and ultimately surrender to Him, that is success of life. Otherwise, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest... Nature is fittest. You'll die; nature will be... You are not fit to fight with the nature. That is asura temperament. And that will never be successful. So many asuras came. Formerly there was Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa, Kaṁsa and others. In the recent years there was Hitler, there was Churchill, there was Lenin, and Gandhi and so on, so on. For few days. Then gone: "Get out. Bas. Finished."
Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The Watsford area there are many Hindus.

Jayatīrtha: Few in Watsford. Mostly down by Wembley, which is not very far from Watsford. It's only three stops on the tube. I think they may let us do a big cart there. And in other cities they may also. We just came to this idea recently to do them in other cities, because especially in the Mid... It's called the Midlands. There is Leicester and Coventry and many cities with many Hindus there. And those people up in those cities, sometimes they're more pious than the London Hindus. They're very... One of our life membership makers in the north made twenty-four members in two weeks.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In the north they're very active there, and they're very anxious for some interest by us for them. Anyway, at least we could have three smaller Ratha-yātrās this year in different places.

Prabhupāda: Simply by Ratha-yātrā, you can attract many people. So still we are going to that Trafalgar Square?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. It's hard, though.

Prabhupāda: The crowd is the same? No. Diminished.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Recent printing, how many?

Rāmeśvara: This printing was 300,000, and that brought it over one million copies.

Prabhupāda: All together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Gargamuni: Rangoon is a Communist state, but still, they say, "We must have these books, and we will make arrangement for payment." No one has refused that they will not pay.

Prabhupāda: Through this Communist country, other Communist countries also...

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. They were very impressed by the Russian reviews in Rangoon. They said, "Oh, in Russia also." I said, "Yes, our Guru Mahārāja, he went there in '71 and gave lectures at the University of Moscow." They were highly impressed with that.

Prabhupāda: This is very improved.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: We want then to chant more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we must... They must know the science also.

Rāmeśvara: Just like this Alice Coltrane. She has done her small part. She made this record album with Govinda Jaya Jaya and Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is... That will be a good thing. But when he (she) does it properly it will be more effective, because there is... If one does not chant in the process, then gradually it degrades. The offense will increase. There is chance.

Rāmeśvara: So in the past, in the magazine, we have only shown people chanting if they were initiated devotees, shaven-headed, living in temple. And recently they have adopted to show people who have jobs outside the movement, and they are not brahmacārī or sannyāsī. They're also chanting, to give the public the idea that...

Prabhupāda: So that we are giving, the facility to chant and take prasādam, but at the same time, gradually, if chanting is effective, then next we have to make it in the process.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: There's another trend that I have noticed recently, that they have... In the past, formerly, many articles were full of quotes in Sanskrit, and recently they have not been using so much Sanskrit, but just the English. The magazine is, they say, is mostly sold...

Prabhupāda: That is not bad. Sanskrit, not necessarily it has to be quoted, but the English is there. It is sufficient. The purport is there.

Rāmeśvara: It's now... Now this magazine that we're printing in Los Angeles, ninety-five percent is sold in Canada and America. We used to ship some of it to England, but now they want to print their own in England. We find that all over the world they don't want to import from America, but they want their own. The public feels, "Why should this be an American import? Why not print it..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And he was elected GBC, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Hṛdayānanda: He was accepted immediately, because it was said that you had wanted him to be GBC. So he was immediately...

Prabhupāda: He is science department.

Hṛdayānanda: Harikeśa Swami and Pañcadraviḍa Swami were accepted as GBC members, and Bali-mardana, since he had gone only recently to Australia, was made for one more year acting GBC, so his activities could be observed. So he accepted that.

Gargamuni: Who else? Pañcadraviḍa and who else?

Hṛdayānanda: And Harikeśa.

Prabhupāda: With great force, preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So your prasādam time is now. Go and take. So you find it all right, this Hindi?

Indian devotee (1): Yes.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the real legal thing is: some way or other, introduce books. Therefore... And it will be beneficial in the long time let us see. Read it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We're very happy to see that by your divine mercy the whole world is flooded with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just by printing and distributing your books the whole world will change. We can see the tremendous effect that your books already caused in the Communist countries of Eastern Europe. The people are mad after your books. Many of them can see that this is the only solution to get out from the miseries that are caused by the materialistic way of life and Communism. Please let me quote from a recent letter sent by a boy in Hungary." The boy's name is Yedi Peta. " 'According to the advices now, I am chanting daily on beads I made at home. I also have purchased the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, although I can only speak Hungarian. Now I do not give any more importance for the evidences from chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc. Rather, I appreciate A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda much more than any scientist or philosopher.' "

Devotees: Jaya!

Rāmeśvara: Haribol!

Pañcadraviḍa: Intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'There have been many others also in the past... There maybe have been others also in the past who were pure, but to my person, Śrīla Prabhupāda is the nearest and dearest. I feel the importance of living in the association of devotees and of accepting the guru. However, at the present there is no temple here, so I neither can associate with devotees, nor can I be accepted...' "

Prabhupāda: So it is not possible to start a temple there?

Bali-mardana: Budapest?

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But this miśri water, ḍāb water, that is natural. So you keep in stock ḍāb water, miśri water always. Our, this scientific program is giving me extra strength to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like you are giving more stress to science in recent years than previously.

Prabhupāda: That is required for convincing the modernized man. To ordinary man, the logic, "There is no God, I cannot see," that we have defied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. That you defied years ago, from the beginning.

Prabhupāda: There is child, there is mother—there must be father. There is no logic. This is logic. Because without father there cannot be the child. Three things required—mother, father and child. Child means must be father and mother. Mother is there, the child is born, where is the father? We know who is father, what is His name, what is His activities. That is our advancement. And "We do not know," that means you are not a respectable, wise chap. You do not know your father's name. Any respectable man in the court or anywhere, the father's name immediately... "Your name?" "Yes." "Your father's name?" Is it not? If he does not know his father's name, that means he is not a respectable. He has no respectable position. Anyone who does not know what is God, he is just like the same child who does not know his father's name. Father must be there. That you do not know. You do not know, that is your foolishness. So anyone who does not know who is his father, what is God, he is not a respectable man. It may be that you have not seen your father, but you cannot deny, that without father you were born. This is no logic. Is that logic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Then you can harass me."

Mr. Rajda: And in jail also he was studying very minutely.

Prabhupāda: But now he says that "Janata is my God." Is it not, recently?

Indian (2): In the first paper like that. But then recently he said that point because it of Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Mr. Rajda: He'll swear to God. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. He is very clear in his mind.

Prabhupāda: Why not preach Kṛṣṇa, God? Why not with me...

Mr. Rajda: He has clarified that point.

Indian (2): He has clarified. Up to three days or four days he has clarified. On Friday it was not clarified. Today it was clarified.

Prabhupāda: Why not government make people God conscious? It is very simple thing. God personally is explaining how to become God conscious. Very simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Even a child can do it. So why not leaders? Then their example should be followed.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bring in the āsana. (Hindi with guest) (break) If you like, you can make this bed this size, not my size.

Hari-śauri: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees are fixing something for Śrīla Prabhupāda) (pause)

Prabhupāda: Now you combine together and present this Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the whole world. (Hindi) You have been acquainted with the other scientists?

Dr. Sharma: Yes, I have met Swami Mādhava dāsa and his colleague, and I've gone through that article recently that they sent me about creation coming out of chaos. It is a very wonderful written article. They will be a real eye-opener for the scientists really. And I understand that you have a big plan to start a research institute with the help of the scientists. This will be really something that...

Prabhupāda: All Indian scientists should join.

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That I want. To keep people in darkness is not science. They are keeping people in darkness. They do not know how nature is working, how they are subjugated to the laws of nature and trying to be independent.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Artificial heart and this real heart the same thing—it is material. Where is the difference? There is no difference.

Dr. Sharma: Just like they are trying to produce babies in the test-tube. They are never going to be successful. But they can keep on trying. I recently went to Houston, and there I have read that they cannot keep somebody alive even more than five, six hours. So far away from such a thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this heart transplant?

Dr. Sharma: Well, the heart transplants actually have been given up everywhere except one place, that's in Stanford Medical Center. And they are doing it because they are the one who initially started it, so they are emotionally stable about it. But actually I have gone and seen there, and they do it... The people are, you know, the recipient patient is very unhappy after the heart transplant. He's very restless, and he has nightmares and he is extremely unhappy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Has Dr. Barnard of South Africa stopped it now?

Dr. Sharma: Well, he has stopped after doing nine, but Stanford people, they have done about almost over a hundred, and they can keep somebody alive another six months or a year or at the most two years. But the man, the man's existence is very miserable. He has to take so many drugs, and he is bloated like a balloon, and he cannot even do the simple duties like taking walks or going to bathroom. He has to be very careful. If he just slips, it will develop the fracture of his ventricle, and that's all. It is very, very unnatural, and I don't think they can solve this problem at all. It is just man's struggle (for) life.(?) And I know they are saying they will do only in people with proper insurance because the hospital bill is $70,000 for a heart transplant.

Prabhupāda: All rascals, they...

Dr. Sharma: This is a perfect example of what Prabhupāda is saying, because this is not justified on any account-moral, ethical, medical...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or financial.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to...

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is this "Distressed Nanda"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading newspaper) "Distressed Nanda could come... Mr. Gujarilal Nanda, former home minister and acting prime minister, has resigned from the Congress after his close association with the party for fifty-six years. But he has let it be known that he is not joining any other party. His resignation is a protest against the failure of the Congress leaders to learn the bitter lesson of the recent chain of events. 'The growing dissensions and acute hostilities among warring factions have given me a severe jolt,' he says in a statement. 'I can see no prospect of abatement of these unseemly encounters and any effective role for myself.' Mr. Nanda, who is seventy-six, says that 'The Gandhian modes and principles are as relevant and valid for the future of the country as they were in the past, and this is the path for me.' Mr. Nanda released the text of three letters he wrote to Mrs. Indira Gandhi on June 27th, July 19th, 1975, and January 21, 1976. In his first letter Mr. Nanda said, 'I have been greatly troubled by the developments during recent weeks. What is happening now must cause deep concern to everyone in the country. I do not comprehend the full import of the measures that have been taken during the last two days, and the consequences they may bring in their train.' On January 21st, 1976, he wrote to Mrs. Gandhi, 'The present circumstances call for some new initiative. The people would expect this to come again from you, considering the position of vantage and eminence which you have occupied. It is your responsibility to guard the vital interests of the nation. On this account, there is room for necessary precautions and exercise of special powers in certain specific fields.' "

Prabhupāda: What is that picture?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "Handicapped though, these foursome make a cheerful group as they paddle along on three wheelers every day from their homes in the King George Memorial Infirmary on Jagtap Marga, Maha-Lakshmi."

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Girirāja: At Mr. Rajda's office the ex-mayor was there. One of the ex-mayors of Bombay was there. He was the chief guest here on Vyāsa-pūjā day two years ago. So he had recently visited our New York center, and he liked it very much, New York and Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: He's impressed. He told Mr. Rajda? He informed Mr. Rajda?

Girirāja: Um, not... No, he didn't, not when I was there. But I am sure they had talked. I mean, people are very aware of our movement, at least superficially, that we are building something, we're doing some... One weekly newspaper editor...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I'm going to write... If you leave me a tiny bit of room, I'll write "For International Society for Krishna Consciousness Building Fund" just above.

Prabhupāda: Write there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: He's asked us to have a column in his newspaper every week for questions or answers, so that the readers can send their questions and then we will give our answer. He will pay. He wants to make a regular weekly feature. It's called The Bombay Times.

Prabhupāda: Newly started?

Girirāja: I don't know how old it is, but now they're making a big push to make it popular.

Prabhupāda: At least one day or two day in a week important men may come here, live here. You hold meeting in that auditorium.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): It is universal message.

Prabhupāda: Now universal. Yes, we have got recent pictures from our different temples. Just see how they are being worshiped. This is in foreign countries. They have got their own religion. Why they should worship Kṛṣṇa? (Hindi)

Mr. Rajda: Yeah, the entire get up is really perfect.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Prasāda? (pause) What is the circulation of our this paper?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of our magazine?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One million copies per month.

Mr. Rajda: One million copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's in English only. Then it also is published in Spanish and Portuguese, German, French, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Hindi, Bengali...

Prabhupāda: Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gujarati, Telegu. Recently we came out with Hungarian publication. (pause)

Indian (1): Swamiji, your idea is to have some international institution.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is international.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Where is authority, that you are speaking rightly? Just like in the law court, when they plead, they give the reference to the lawbook that... A good lawyer means he will give reference "Under section... This is my authority." That is authority. (break) (Hindi) Ap thik hai?

Girirāja: So this is Mr. Ram Jethmalani. He is the Member of Parliament representing this constituency. So he recently came from Detroit. He was teaching at the university there while this emergency was going on, and now he came back. So he mentioned his idea of helping the slum dwellers. So I have showed him that article, "One Hundred Million Harijanas Looking for a New Messiaḥ" and gave him a copy of the letter which Goswami Mahārāja wrote. In the meantime he was just busy with other functions. He didn't get a chance to go through it. He is very interested.

Prabhupāda: So we can uplift the position of the harijanas very easily, by this process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is a song, Bengali song, vrajendra-nandana yei. You understand Bengali?

Ram Jethmalani: No.

Prabhupāda: Vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, meaning that "Who was formerly Vrajendra-nandana, Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja's son, the same person has now come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu." Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother's name was Śacīdevī. Therefore He is introduced, "The same person who was formerly the son of Nanda Mahārāja has come again as the son of Śacīdevī." Balarāma haila nitāi. "And Balarāma has come as Nitāi." These two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, They have now started this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So what is the purpose of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? So pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. In the Kali-yuga, ninety-nine percent, they are sinful and suffering. Pāpī-tāpī. Pāpī means sinful, and tāpī means suffering. All of them, pāpī-tāpī yata chila, they are all delivered simply by this process of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. Then where is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You are a lawyer, you want witness, evidence.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where there is?

Bhakti-caru: New Delhi. (Bengali) "The instructions have been issued in this regard to Assam authorities. Mr Brahmacari is known to be close to Mr. Sanjay Gandhi." "Morarji Wants Prices. The Prime Minister, Mr. Morarji Desai, today promised in a radio broadcast to check the recent rise in prices on certain goods. 'If necessary by comparing quotas in the current stocks and even by imports, where feasible.' Mr. Desai observed that prices had declined since between February 25 and the end of March but have again increased in the last few weeks in the case of essential goods like oil seeds, cotton, edible oil, til, pulses and food grains. This has raised apprehensions in the minds of (indistinct). Some traders and some stockists have taken advantage of the shortage of certain commodities to increase prices. The form of exploitation would not be tolerated. The Prime Minister said that 'Lifting of the emergency does not mean that traders should try and make extra profits. That will hinder them in the eyes of the law, the people and government. I should like to emphasize that the ordinary law of the land is sufficient to deal with any antisocial conduct.' "

Prabhupāda: They should severe punishment. Then... We shall see.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali?) "Ninety murders in one district."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: Charan Singh (Hindi) "Ninety murders in one district. 'There was a constitutional breakdown in the states,' he said. The chief minister of Maratha states had admitted to him that his government's reach was no longer running the way it had done earlier. He was receiving many complaints from the U.P., Rajasthan, and Haryana. Fifty murders have been committed in one district in Bihar in one week. Mr. Charan Singh's statement, which was preceded by the (indistinct) meeting earlier in the morning, led to a spate of questions. He was asked whether he was going counter to the spirit of the federal structure which permitted different ruling parties and centers and states, whether the ruling party M.P. would be asked to resign if a state..., if the states they came from turned down his party government and whether the central government would not invoke the power of an article which stated by the Constitution despite capitalism in the Janata party election manifesto."

Prabhupāda: So what is this yoga? (laughs) Sanjay Gandhi's yoga, just see. A rogue, devil, he is practicing yoga. His mother was practicing also yoga, the same.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: Vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam.

Prabhupāda: So go-rakṣya, not... Just like Vinoba Bhave recently, "Cows which have delivered milk should not be sacrificed." Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Only the cows which are delivering milk, they should not be sent to slaughter." Go-rakṣya. Even they are not delivering milk...

Mr. Dwivedi: Go-rakṣya means go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya.

Mr. Dwivedi: Rakṣya means go-rakṣya. It doesn't mean that the sick should not be protected, the weak should not be protected. Go-rakṣya means go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: Honest, in India, the ninety-nine, more or less...

Prabhupāda: They're all violators.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...are materialists.

Prabhupāda: All violating. You see? I had been recently in Gandhi's āśrama at Trinoba(?). I do not wish to say, but they do not understand Gītā.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: I am leaving on the 25th night. Then, on... I am reaching there 26th night. On the 27th I have to attend the marriage of my younger brother's son. That will take about two days, to 27th and 28th. And then, then, till about the 3rd I am busy in the sense that our president of Abhesivasana(?), he expired recently. So he left two sons. They... They just need my little guidances in such matters, the young boys. Not young. Pretty old, but yet, because they, being the sons of a yajnirdatta(?), did not much look up to the work, now suddenly the responsibility has fallen over their heads. So... But after the 3rd or 4th, I am free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good, gives a little time for preparing.

Mr. Dwivedi: The weather at our headquarters is always pleasant. Summer, very pleasant. You'll gain in weight.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Mr. Dwivedi: And strange enough, you gain in color also in summer.

Prabhupāda: Attractive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Said the right thing.

Mr. Dwivedi: Strange enough. And strange enough, this paper that we produce there, the worms do not eat it. And I shall be able to show you some of our record, registered, thirty, forty years old, registered, as good as they were then.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is the drinking water?

Mr. Dwivedi: Fine. Very fine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have well, deep well.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, we have got deep wells. And the water of our wells, particularly of the college well, is the best in the area.

Prabhupāda: So let us arrange like that. So... So let us arrange. Let us go there. If it is cooperation available, we take immediately. There is no doubt. Because we want to organize every village. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also insanity. (sound of metal dishes) No taste.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The milk has no taste or you have no taste, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I have no taste. And maybe (laughs) has no taste.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In India there's no telling. Generally, recently the milk has been of a good standard, good quality. You might have more taste for lassi. That's a little sweet and nice.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it's also very good for digestion.

Prabhupāda: So give me lassi.

Upendra: Now?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because we get lots of that dahi. You drink it cool with a little sugar in it. I think it's good for digestion, dahi. How are you feeling today, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Not feel so... That jhuri was very heavy for me. Jhuri, jhuri. What is called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Heavy. Yeah, I ate some and I couldn't digest it. Even now they're sitting. Very hard to digest. I tried to take some jirā water this morning to help to digest it. Then I took some dahi milk, and I think that helped. I drank a lot of dahi.

Prabhupāda: So you can give me little jirā water.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Now, how they have become Kṛṣṇa conscious? And our men? They are dragged, somebody, to this conscious, that conscious, that conscious. Take this steady instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Try to implement. Everyone will be happy, everyone, undoubtedly. Take this seriously. It is not that, because we are pushing Kṛṣṇa ... We are not pushing something new, manufactured. It is already there. It is already there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So what do you think? Is it possible to push Kṛṣṇa consciousness on this line, strictly on Bhagavad-gītā? What do you think? It is not difficult, but we have made it difficult. Recently I had been to Vinoba Bhave's aśrama. And there is no Kṛṣṇa, and he is writing Bhagavad-gītā pravacana or something like that. Even in Gandhi's āśrama, Wardha(?), the Gandhi's lantern is being worshiped. And where is Kṛṣṇa? So the Bhagavad-gītā's instruction is mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and they are worshiping Gandhi's lantern. You had been with me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but I've seen it.

Prabhupāda: You know, that so...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither many people come there.

Kārttikeya: Sevagram.

Prabhupāda: Nobody.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and one who has got faith in these words—"Yes, if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, all success will follow..."—this is faith. So faith is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). So if we have got faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa—they are very openly spoken—then our life becomes successful. But we have no faith in Kṛṣṇa. They take Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). If you say that "You have no faith in Kṛṣṇa. Then you are a mūḍha," he becomes angry. But I don't say; Kṛṣṇa says. We are simply repeating the words of Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So if we say, people become angry. And we don't say anything. We simply repeat. That is our business. We are not learned scholars. But our mission is to repeat the words of Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. He says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru." "Now, how shall I become guru? I am neither learned nor Vedantist, neither sannyāsī. How can I become guru?" "No, no, you have no difficulty. You, on My order, become guru simply..." Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. "You become guru. Whomever you meet, you simply try to convince him what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. Then you become guru." So we request everyone the same thing. And become guru. It is very urgently necessary. I... People are becoming godless, atheist, nonbelievers, and they are suffering. So every village, every home, every neighborhood, they require guru. But who will be guru? One who repeats the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Yāre dekha tāre kaha. It is very easy. So people are accepting all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. These books we are selling. Daily our collection is five to six lakhs of rupees. Now this recent publication, how many copies we have printed, this?
Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

nce and princess, very high and very rich, and they are regularly hearing, and they are now recently visiting our Bombay temple. They have come to Bombay, and they are really seeking for a teacher. And there is many intelligent people who are very interested. We are actively preaching and giving them Śrīla Prabhupāda's books.

Prabhupāda: It is plain fact. God is one. Why God should be Muhammadan, Christian, Hindu? That is not God. God is God. Gold is gold. This example I give always. Because a piece of gold is coming from some Muhammadan gentleman, does it mean it is Muhammadan gold? It is gold. It may come from any source, but one must know that it is gold, not imitation. That is wanted. If it is imitation, then it is Muhammadan gold, Hindu gold. And if it is real gold, it is neither Muhammadan nor Hindu. (end)

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How they are living? As soon as you walk, they go within the sand.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Recently they also found out that there are some, called bacteria. They live in a very unusual circumstances. They can survive to 150 degrees. And sometimes they live inside ammonia, ammonia solution, without water. They can survive.

Prabhupāda: Not without water. There is water, but not as much. Just like on the land there is water, but in the sea there are so much water. So there is life; there is life. We don't say that in the land there is no water. Everywhere is there different. So this evolution, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi, it has developed the same way. The first life comes out... Then everywhere there is life. The transportation from higher planet to lower planet, water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Water?

Prabhupāda: The rainfall. With the rainfall, those who are fallen souls, they are coming down. Then takes shelter within the atom. Then again grows.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do. Yes, very good. You do.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause they have so much lands, so right outside the temple there'll be doll exhibits for all the tourists.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we saw something like that in Hrishikesh. Just recently we went to Hrishikesh, and in one āśrama they have doll exhibits of all the avatāras. Oh, it was very... Of all kṛṣṇa-līlā. And each doll exhibit is within a little temple, dome-shaped temple. People go and look, and there's a plaque that describes what it is. Very nice.

Rāmeśvara: We'll have more than a plaque.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that whole thing costs a thousand dollars, not a quarter of a million.

Prabhupāda: Doll exhibition you can have in this temple also. People will come to see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Along the side?

Prabhupāda: Where is suitable.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. He wanted to invite me. I refused, "I cannot..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he sent a message that "You should take complete rest and not do any preaching."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Recently I saw a book in Boston. It was from England, that book. The title was called The Origin of Johnny. Johnny's the name of a little boy.

Prabhupāda: Johnny Walker. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And it was very interesting, that book. That was... This is the Origin of Species. That was Darwin's book. This was the modern version of Darwin's book. It's about this big, and it's full of nice colors with all molecules, DNA and all these nice, modern-looking molecules, and then they say... They start... It starts like this, "In the beginning there was a big blank." (Prabhupāda laughs)

Prabhupāda: "There was..."?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "There was a blank. There was a void." Everything was blank. And the way he started, the foreword was given by a scientist called Crick, Watson and Crick. Crick is in Cambridge, and Watson is in Harvard. So these two men were the men who discovered the structure of the DNA molecule that they thought that may be life. And they got Nobel Prize for this. And Crick was writing in the first page, saying that "This is the way we have understood about life." But "Everything was started like that, from blank and a blank, blank. And somehow all these molecules get together and then it became Johnny later on." (laughter) And we can make a nice story out of it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They make such a story that sometime they make the little children believe and thought that it might be the fact.

Prabhupāda: Fairy tales.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how they can be reliable, so-called, this way...? (background whispering) Hm?

Yaśodā-nandana: In the Gurukula we were teaching Īśopaniṣad class to the children. So we took... (break) ...Prabhupāda and the words which the recent edition of the Press is wrong. Many changes were brought. They were trying to make better English, but sometimes, to make better English, I think they were making philosophical mistakes also. There is no so much need of making so much better English. Your English is sufficient. It is very clear, very simple. We have caught over 125 changes. They're changing so many things. We are wondering if this is necessary. I will show you today. I have kept the book.

Prabhupāda: I know that these rascals are doing. What can be done? How they can be relied on?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not the responsibility of the BBT trustee, to see these things don't change without Prabhupāda's sanction?

Prabhupāda: And Rāmeśvara is indulging this. The great rascal is that Jagannātha? He's there in Los Angeles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jagannātha dāsa?

Prabhupāda: Maybe.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they won't take.

Prabhupāda: No, that is... Therefore it will be a failure. We are... Just like in Hyderabad we are trying to make an ideal farm. If we can do, that will be success.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was recently an article. Previously there was oil shortage in the world. Now they are predicting that there is going to be a water shortage.

Prabhupāda: Everything will be shortage. That is nature's arrangement. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). They cannot make any plan successful without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long they'll insist upon this point, that "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shall do everything successfully..." That is durāśā. As long as they persist on this, they'll remain rascals. Every plan will be failure. Durāśā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Nature, material nature, is against them. No plan will be allowed to be... Just trace out the history. Every plan has been unsuccessful, either Eastern, Western. Napoleon made plan, Hitler made plan, Gandhi made plan. So many rascals, they made plan. Everyone's plan, impersonalist, they are unsuccessful at the end. Gandhi was killed, Napoleon was dishonored, Mussolini was killed, Hitler nowhere... Take all these big, big...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Still they have not learned their lesson.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. It has been unsuccessful many times. Still they'll do. When the sewer ditches will be complete? Sewer ditches?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The sewage line? They should be completed in a month. Before the Gurukula opens, it has to be finished.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can eat it immediately.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You begin to realize you have nothing else beside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Can't eat... Actually it's quite a nice realization. When food goes then you realize that the shelter is also bhakti.(?) With Kṛṣṇa you can go on chanting, reading Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: In Marwari community they have now degraded. Otherwise they are very nice. Now they have become, recently, hippies.

Śatadhanya: Hm. The young... This new generation, we have seen. They are copying Western...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I see that boy, that Dalmiya's grandson, unless he comes to our gurukula, he will be spoiled for sure.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm. But Dalmiya agreed. That means if you approach the grandmother, you'll get the boy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Aurora's son, he agreed. I talked to him yesterday. Before he left, he was determined to... He said, "I will send my son there."

Prabhupāda: They are (too faint).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Aurora is very qualified, very important. He was a judge in South Africa. He was an international lawyer. He graduated from Harvard, so many big schools-Oxford, Harvard. I know he wasn't lying. It's true. He held very good position.

Prabhupāda: Is Aurora pleader? Is Aurora pleader, you mean?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that barrister.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Akṣayānanda: Yes. I've always tried to minimize that problem.

Prabhupāda: No, "try..." Actually prove. No, don't try.

Akṣayānanda: I'm doing it, actually, at the expense of... They get angry but...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of angry. It is not our...

Akṣayānanda: Just recently I sent about three or four of them out, and they all became...

Prabhupāda: If they want to live without any payment, let them go to Māyāpur. There is enough place. We don't deny that. But here, in the guestroom, they will occupy without any payment.

Akṣayānanda: No, there's only one big room. It's right at the back, and it's not a very nice room. The guests do not like that room. And they have... I sent two or three to Ahmedabad also. They have a little room, Ahmedabad, especially now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Akṣayānanda: Yaśomatī-nandana, he has also facility, so often I send them there.

Prabhupāda: Yaśomatī-nandana? Ahmedabad?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Especially single women.

Prabhupāda: They can go to Hyderabad, Ahmedabad. And why here? This should be stopped and independence given(?).

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like pañjikā... What is called, that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Almanac.

Prabhupāda: Almanac. It is always written there, Nūtana Pañjikā, "New Pañjikā," although it may be fifty years old.

Mr. Myer: I understand. Who will read it? I recently bought a book. I bought a fifty-eighth anniversary book of...

Prabhupāda: "New Almanac." And... Although you'll see a fifty years old almanac, there is "New Almanac."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So for the person who picks it up, it's new.

Mr. Myer: Quite right. I should liken to Readers Digest. I bought recently the fiftieth anniversary. They have published articles from last fifty years of books almost. So...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I tried to suggest to Mr. Myer that one thing is that before he introduces too many new things, first of all make the things that are already introduced successful.

Prabhupāda: First of all thing is that the money is unnecessarily squandered. Try to save it.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That.

Mr. Myer: That will be very big event.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For Them you will do anything. 'Cause actually They have done everything for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You asked Them to stand there despite...

Mr. Myer: Yati Prabhu was telling me the entire story, how Śrīla Prabhupāda moved into his..., when it was not even completed, and all the devotees had to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, recently?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I learned about some time back. I was watching big picture and all. There are also...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mrs. Singol, she wrote a letter.

Prabhupāda: Doctor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Singol's wife.

Prabhupāda: His wife?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She wrote you a letter, very feelingful letter.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm. She is very attached.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Want to hear the letter?

Prabhupāda: I'll wait.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is gone.

Mr. Myer: They have all exploded that wall, you see. That's what, how the government... So people said that... They're giving money for vague and, which is, at the time, I think... Now I think they have met recently in England. So there is some programs in India. Even Terawal(?) now... Everywhere there is some... After Morarji Desai has taken over, our relations are improving with all the countries.

Prabhupāda: That is expected. He's a good man. But...

Mr. Myer: And people have got very happy for his personal life. He's gets up in the morning and does the spinning, and he's dedicated... He's not even taking medicines or any type of... Very, very strict. He does not wear any cloth which he is not spinning. I don't know how he finds the time, but he is doing so many things. The people are amazed at his... It is very fortunate that he has come now. I think certainly they will all adopt some special... Because people has to come. Once they see the gurukula and Bhaktivedanta Institute coming up... Whoever's not in the gurukula, we're going to post there also... So you don't work the modern language. It is a university also. Perfectly represent special...

Prabhupāda: No, our books are more than university standard. If they simply can study our book, it is more than the course he was given. Tan manye adhitam uttamam. All right.

Akṣayānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...of first grade, one hour there. That doesn't mean necessarily life is shorter. (end)

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Probably," "maybe," "in millions of years."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We call that "closet talk." That means when you start talking like that, we advise him to go into the closet and close the door. Then only they will have to hear it.

Prabhupāda: We take Kṛṣṇa's word. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very positive. He says, "One additional note. Our Library Party in America recently attended the annual convention of the largest organization of libraries." That's called the American Library Association. It's made up of all of the libraries in the US, and it's the most prestigious library association. "At this convention, the booth of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust won the first prize..."

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is our triumph.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...for the most attractive booth. And a plaque was awarded to our representative, Śeṣa dāsa." He was called up in front of all of the gathering of librarians. They awarded him a plaque. "He had the booth arranged with a portable movie projector showing one of the ISKCON films. Incense was burning, Indian sweets were distributed, and all your books were displayed as well as tapes. So it was nice that such a big organization recognized Kṛṣṇa was all-attractive."

Prabhupāda: That's the kind of propaganda.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The professors challenge him... What...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There was a challenge?

Mr. Myer: Yes, one of his disciples was recently caught. He had lot of vibhūti inside, hidden inside his body. So when he lay down they say that lot of vibhūti was coming out. So when they opened the shirt it was just filled with whole thing inside. That is one of his very close disciples, they are... But he is still managing to get away. His argument is that there are two types of people who come to him. One who is spiritually advanced, for them he does not show any miracles. But there are some poor people who do not believe in God unless you show the miracle, so therefore he gives all these mūrtis and... I told, once (indistinct) with him last year. So I was sitting there and suddenly, you see, he just did something and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let's see him save himself from death. Let's see him make the miracle that he can save himself from dying. That he cannot do.

Mr. Myer: Whole thing is, in the last four, five years. Once they tried to buy my chairman's car, they want to buy. It is big Chevrolet car he has got.

Prabhupāda: I have heard that he's a big drunkard.

Mr. Myer: No, he wanted buy a car from my chairman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That man is a big drunkard.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhāgavatāśraya: We can make copies?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Write Gargamuni. He'll send more. This is an important Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge reviews. Actually he got all of these reviews recently. That's amazing. It's amazing how many reviews they got. These are all from the months of May and June I think. Yeah. You want to hear some of them? "Minister of Education: 'Message: The ancient roots of traditional Indian life reach farther into the distant past than any other country on earth. What thousands of years ago culminated in education included the development in the student of all good qualities. In other words the pupil was ignited with a desire to learn and develop himself rather than strive for material rewards. From out of the great ages the ancients, headed by Śrī Vyāsadeva, have left us the timeless treatise of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the basis of all education.' " This is the Minister of Education, the Government of Maharastra. She's admitting...

Prabhupāda: Vedavyāsa.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla. And Rāmeśvara is doing it from the international side. It came in all the papers. Imagine, they're getting calls from Rāmeśvara in Los Angeles, Jayatīrtha in Africa. Jayatīrtha visited Africa recently. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they would have done. The first news was that "The founder was not there." Otherwise the police would have charged me that "He has given order."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Order to fire.

Prabhupāda: "Fire it." That we shall see by and by. Police can do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa would never let that happen to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right, but that very word, that "The founder was not there," that means they were expecting that if I would have been there, they would have charged that "He is in the spot, and he has ordered."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like all over the world that it's a little dangerous now. The deprogrammers, they could also say, "He is the one behind it."

Prabhupāda: That they are saying.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In one week. So unimaginable.

Dr. Kapoor: I don't think any other publisher...

Prabhupāda: No, we are the first publisher in the world. That is already recognized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At that recent library convention in the United States, four hundred publishers in America participated, every major publisher. And our booth was awarded the first place amongst all of the publishers' booths.

Dr. Kapoor: Where? In the quality of printing or amount of sales?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, generally they give it based on different factors. The quality of the printing, the sales, and the booth appearance, presentation.

Dr. Kapoor: This is solid work.

Prabhupāda: Now we are going to hold Bhaktivedanta Institute scientific meeting. What is that? Where is that paper? Bombay. Scientifically presenting, among the scientists.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who's talking Arabian Night?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Fairy stories like Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, Bible, Koran, Pilgrim's..." Oh, this man... "Pilgrim's Progress, Jataka stories, astrology, palmistry, numerology, theology, demonology, etc., are the products of subjective thinkers. While the former are factual, the latter are all fictitious. Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy..."

Prabhupāda: What is value of atomic energy? A man is dying; you have accelerated his death. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Landing on the moon..."

Prabhupāda: Have you invented something that man will not die? Then it is approved. They are dying. You have given facilities to die earlier. That is atomic energy. There is no energy which can save him—"No more death." Is that improvement? By nature one dies natural death, and you have accelerated-many millions of people can be killed by this atomic weapon. So what is your achievement? Save millions of people.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's giving very strong argument.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "The Oxford Dictionary defines empirical as 'based on observation and experiment.' Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses. Therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect. So in fact, the soul and the existence of God is quite beyond the power of Kovoor's observation. Why be so obstinate? This is common sense, a point anyone can understand. He says, 'It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature.' This is a preposterous claim only a fool would make. Nature forces everyone to become old, diseased, and, lastly, die. Even the most powerful conquerors of the world are helplessly dragged off the stage of life by nature in the shape of all-devouring death. But perhaps Dr. Kovoor will be the first living being in the history of the world that will conquer over death. That remains to be seen. And lastly he says, 'Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy to reach millions of light years in space, landing on the moon, etc.' Everyone knows that the first thing scientists did when discovering atomic energy was to manufacture the atom bomb and promptly drop two of them on Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, thus annihilating millions of innocent victims in a flash. It is certainly marvelous. (Prabhupāda and Tamāla chuckling) At the expense of untold billions of dollars and years of research and hard labor, scientists have gone to the moon, snapped a few blurry photos, and brought back a handful of rocks, declared to the world that 'There was nothing there, so now we will try to go to Mars.' What is so marvelous about this? It is completely lunacy, if anything. On our earthly planet, millions of people are without food, shelter, and simple education. Instead of spending billions of dollars to bring rocks from the moon, science would be more credible if they would rather spend the hard-earned taxpayer's money for improving his own lot on earth. Rocks are rocks, whether from the Moon, from Mars or from China. Or is it that science can turn the rocks into bread and cheese by applying some chemicals? Now, to get to the main article, in answer to Kovoor's question of what objective evidence I have made the fantastic statement that life comes from life and matter also comes from life, and that there is soul, rebirth of the soul, and Supreme Soul, God, they say fight fire with fire, and so I have taken advantage of three scientists who happen to be members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and, I dare say, more qualified than the so-called Dr. Kovoor, who is only an honorary doctor..."

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We are always praying to Kṛṣṇa that He will give us the spiritual strength to help you in your mission of spreading Lord Caitanya's mercy. Now we are also constantly praying, 'Dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, if You desire, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda.' Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are most grateful for Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's recent letter, in which he reports how much you enjoyed Back To Godhead issue number 7." This is number 8. "This is our only purpose in life, to give you some little amount of pleasure by our service. The devotees are also enjoying the magazine very much, especially your talks with Hayagrīva Prabhu on the bogus philosophers, and the 'Śrīla Prabhupāda Speaks Out' feature." The devotees like that too much, "Prabhupāda Speaks Out." "Please accept this Vyāsa-pūjā issue, Back to Godhead 12.8. We are offering to you this drop of gratitude for the ocean of love you are giving us. Please help us continue to work together in pushing on your great movement to benedict the world with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Your insignificant servants..."

Prabhupāda: How many copies they have published?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think... I got a letter from Satsvarūpa yesterday. I think this issue was 400,000. It varies between 400-and 500,000 copies. Generally about a half a million every month. Pretty good standard.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) ...bad education. They have learned to... No education. (aside:) Get this down here. I am seriously thinking how to do. Organized, a society for sinful activities, Western. Now you are advanced, sincerely carry on. At least in America.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vegetarian dinner.

Jayatīrtha: And they're all Muslims.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you have the right man there, Śrīla Prabhupāda-Ātreya Ṛṣi.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he is very able.

Rāmeśvara: He just recently left his company, Arthur Young, and started his own business. And all the customers from Arthur Young switched over. So now he is making more money by this arrangement.

Prabhupāda: What Dayānanda is doing?

Rāmeśvara: During the day he has a job with computer work, and in the evening he manages the restaurant. He is the general manager of the restaurant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does his wife do?

Rāmeśvara: His wife also helps in the kitchen. She spends the whole day working in the kitchen at the restaurant. And the two girls, they help as waitresses, serving the food and taking the plates.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Muslims come to eat there?

Prabhupāda: They are all Muslim. That quarter is very busy where the house, restaurant.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are all Muslim. That quarter is very busy where the house, restaurant.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. It's only about five minutes from the Senate and the main Parliament buildings. Also the biggest museums are very nearby. Very good location. And one man has also joined, a local man who is very intelligent. And he has begun translating Bhagavad-gītā into Parsi. And in three months' time his translation of the entire Bhagavad-gītā will be completed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did he come recently to India with Ātreya Ṛṣi?

Rāmeśvara: That's a different man.

Prabhupāda: It will be locally published.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Locally published.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do like that. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are doing that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are helping that.

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The doctors who have been coming said that the heart was not bad and the tongue looks all right.

Dr. Ghosh: His urine should... Has it been recently examined?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Dr. Ghosh: I'd like to see the report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is that report? No one ever gave me this report.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: I don't know how he... I don't know. He went to my son-in-law's at Lucknow, got all the informations and then, oh, I don't know how he followed, how he could find me. He went to Loretto Convent there. Two of my granddaughters are there. Inquired from them, "When your grandfather is coming?" And they told him. And the next day we met him at Loretto Convent. (laughs) What was...? A wonderful thing. Then he gave me the message. I at once... Within two hours, I started. Oh, it was a very travel from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How you came? By what means?

Dr. Ghosh: By that rocket bus. Sixteen hours it took us from Siliguri to Calcutta. Terrible, bone-breaking. I never did that in my life, sixteen hours by bus. In Calcutta, Calcutta the greatest thing. With Lord Kṛṣṇa's blessings He could otherwise. This is the third flight that we got. We couldn't get before that. This morning we got a flight without a great...

Prabhupāda: Rocket bus?

Dr. Ghosh: Ha, from Siliguri to Calcutta.

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Give him the best room. And have... Give him best wash.

Dr. Ghosh: Don't worry, don't worry. I will just...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: Don't worry, don't worry. Please, please be comfortable. (Bengali) (break)

Hari-śauri: ...he died recently.

Prabhupāda: He also died? He is the only person remaining. Otherwise all my contemporary friends gone.

Lokanātha: Dr. Ghosh likes you very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: And there's practical liking. Not just words, but he wants to render services unto you. That is better.

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa has made him happy in all respect.

Lokanātha: Yes. He was mentioning to me that.

Prabhupāda: From monetary point of view, from family life, position. He is the biggest medical practitioner in Allahabad. Everyone knows. Even in the street, Dr. Ghosh they know. So take care of him very carefully.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Jaya. I have water. Can you drink? (Prabhupāda swallows) More water? Little more.

Hari-śauri: I was in Delhi yesterday, and I spoke to one of the temple presidents in Australia, and he gave me a very encouraging report. He said that all the Indian Gītās that we got just recently from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, now they've almost completely finished. Over eleven thousand they've distributed in just a few weeks.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Hari-śauri: That's very good. Since you've been here in Vṛndāvana, I sent them a telegram that now they have to distribute more books so that Lord Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and allow you to stay with us. So they've doubled up since then. Now they're almost run out, they've distributed so many. (break) He said that up on the farm also things are going very nicely. Many, many people are coming now to see how we are living. And for Govardhana Pūjā they are planning a two-day festival. They're expecting to get many hundreds of people coming. Your farm is already very well known now up in that area, and people are becoming very interested to see what we have to offer. In the immediate district where our farm is, many people have tried to start communes—these hippies and people like this. But they've never been successful because they've never had any central point to agree on. Everybody's simply gone their..., lived their own way. But within a few months now, some of the more serious people have seen that within just three or four months we have achieved more on our farm than any of these communes have done in the last six years. So they're becoming very attracted to come and stay with us, and they appreciate the kīrtana and prasādam very much. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They use machine. Their means of knowing-machine. They do not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have many medical friends. They frankly admit that oftentimes they kill the patients in the name of treating. It comes out that it was their own medicine that they gave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recently that Dalmia secretary... What is his name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hita-sarana Sharma.

Prabhupāda: In pathology his prescription was replaced by another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't follow. Recently whose?

Upendra: Prescription was replaced by another.

Prabhupāda: He had some trouble. So, what is called? Pathology?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pathology? No.

Prabhupāda: No, laboratory testing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's laboratory test called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pathology?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So his case was transferred to another.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in America just two years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told you the story of my father recently, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how he had the arthritis in the hip, so they gave him a new hip. Then it moved to the other hip, and they replaced the other hip. So after eight weeks he was in bed in the hospital, and then they said, "Now you can try to walk." So they gave him crutches, and they stood him up, and after eight weeks of all these operations, as soon as he stood up he had a heart attack and died right on the spot. They were very sure. "Now you're all right," they told him.

Devotee: My great-uncle, he had tonsillitis, so he went to a friend who was a doctor, and the friend said, "That's all right. We'll operate, and I will not charge you anything." So he went into the hospital, and in the operation the doctor dropped a scalpel, and after that—he was very big, and he became very small, never could eat again. (break)

Prabhupāda: No protection.

Bhavānanda: There's no protection. (break)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: So? Bhāgavata?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavatam translation? I'll arrange now? (break)

Trivikrama: ...cannot do its plundering business.

Prabhupāda: The sun cannot take life during the Bhāgavata discussion. The more you discuss Bhāgavatam, you keep your life. Who is standing here?

Tripurāri: Now Bharadvāja is chanting.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: Yes. This is the... He's asking about that time, four or five months ago.

Bhakti-caru: This one is from... Yes, this is very recent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's better.

Kavirāja (1): (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Pressure is good. When Dr. Ghosh came, that other Dr. Ghosh came... (Hindi) ...pressure, 180 and 80. (Hindi) He's saying that in this condition, Prabhupāda can't take makara-dhvaja. That any medicine that contains mercury and arsenic is poison to him.

Bhavānanda: That's what Prabhupāda said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a fact. He found that to be true.

Kavirāja (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi—long conversation with kavirāja)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi) (end)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Śatadhanya: That's Haṁsadūta.

Mādhava: We can begin the bath now, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) ...loan... Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said, no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupāda's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.

Prabhupāda: No, I expect.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...so we can influence whole world.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We got report that the recent printing of the Bhagavad-gītā will be sold out by June. One million five hundred thousand copies will have been sold in about ten months' time. Fifteen lakhs were sold in ten months just in the United States.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Standing orders was..., I think it was three thousand standing orders.

Prabhupāda: Three thousand or five thousand... (Hindi) Three thousand eight hundred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three thousand at fifty rupees each.

Bhakti-caru: Eight hundred rupees a set times three thousand.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) I increased my duration of life according to horoscope (Hindi) ...this feeble condition... (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Akṣayānanda Mahārāja, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Akṣayānanda Mahārāja...

Akṣayānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The film and... What happened to...?

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) I do not know. What, what happened to the Hindu...?

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: What is the latest about the Bombay temple (Hindi)?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We haven't heard anything in the last two or three months, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This telegram came from the former mayor-Ganatra? Rajiv Ganatra? He wrote, "Pray God to give you long life to spread Indian culture in every nook and corner of the universe."

Rāma-Kṛṣṇa: That is the feeling of all, everybody.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyate (Hindi) Para-upakāra. This is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. Especially those who have taken birth in India...

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

(Hindi) This is Indian culture, para-upakāra. Indian culture is not meant for exploiting others. Para-upakāra. That is human life, para-upakāra. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our biggest festival. All the devotees from all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Recently there was a scientific meeting here. Where is that Statesman report?

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: The report from, about Māyāpur? Some literature?

Prabhupāda: No, here. We... Just describe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a science conference here in Gurukula just about a little more than a week ago.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Here in this new building?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the same building, at the same hall that you're going to hold your conference.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gaura-govinda: Pāṇḍās. So recently Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī wrote me a letter to come to make Bhāgavata if I went there. He made proposal that we start nirjok sevā(?) there at the Jagannātha temple, Anantadeva's proposal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nirjok sevā? What is that?

Gaura-govinda: Nirjok sevā means we'll purchase a fireplace, chimney, and also a little cooking. And we'll give him rice, ḍāl, sabji, cooking prasādam, and that would be offered to Jagannātha, Lord Jagannātha. Then they would use the prasādam. They would distribute it or... That is nirjok sevā. That maṭha has appealed like that, "Do this thing." Then they will recognize us, and get permission to enter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who will get permission?

Gaura-govinda: There is a committee there. It is pāṇḍā's committee and temple management committee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But who will be allowed to enter?

Gaura-govinda: That will be passed in that committee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but they will allow Western people to enter Jagannātha temple?

Gaura-govinda: Yes, yes. They have talked with that Anantadeva, but they want money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want nirjok sevā or they also want money?

Gaura-govinda: By giving us permission, nirjok sevā, means indirectly they want money. They'll take money. Then they'll give us permission to do nirjok sevā and also, that way, entrance into the Jagannātha temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. So how much money?

Gaura-govinda: I talked with that Śyāmasundara and Anantadeva. He said thirty-six groups are there, nirjoks, pāṇḍā groups. And administrator is there. They want something and all groups want something. (whispering) One lakh of rupee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lakh of rupees to see Jagannātha. But we can see Jagannātha in any temple in the world. Why do we have to pay one lakh of rupees? Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was saying that we don't have to pay one lakh of rupees to see Lord Jagannātha in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Let them pray to Jagannātha for my cure immediately, or as soon as possible, I shall do that.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bābājī Mahārāja also I have consulted that "Being afraid, don't move me in the hospital." He also says, "No, don't do."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not going to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That Saṁjāta dāsa? You know Saṁjāta dāsa, the architect from Bhuvaneśvara? He passed away recently. So I asked Gaura-govinda what were the circumstances. So he explained that he had been very ill for four or five days. They took him to the hospital. So the doctors gave some drugs for reducing the fever. But suddenly he died. When he died he was unconscious. Gaura-govinda said maybe it was due to the drugs that caused some severe reaction. We see one example after another that these hospitals, they are simply meant to kill, not to save life. I mean, I don't think we have any faith either in them, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And apart from our faith, which makes no difference, you strictly ordered it. So we're not going to disobey your order under any circumstance, even if we risk our own life. If someone says to us that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja," then we'll say, "Then kill us." Your order is our command.

Prabhupāda: What does he say? They will kill?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja to the hospital," still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow, even at the risk of our life. So we are not going to take you to the hospital under any condition. Neither... Not only is it your order, but we also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these allopathic doctors.

Prabhupāda: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches chant, I'll hear.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami and Dhṛṣṭadyumna Swami: Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your feet. All glories to our beloved spiritual master Śrīla Prabhupāda. May Lord Kṛṣṇa, if He so desires, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm writing this letter as a brief report on the recent events as a result of my trip to Kwangchow, Canton China. I arrived on October 16th. Business—attended the Trade Fair but signed no contracts as all the prices were far too high. Research on some items may result in future business. Saṅkīrtana—our real business: I gave two Chinese Bhagavad-gītās to the Chungshan University, or Dr. Sun Yatsen University as it is called now, in Canton. They were accepted by the administration with assurance of being delivered to the appropriate departments. I inquired from the liaison office how to visit the university. They said it must be prearranged, but they did not know how. From past experience..." This boy had gone to China once before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He's a Canadian. He says, "From past experience..." He's one of your disciples. "From past experience, because of limited time, I decided to just go, although warned not to. I walked past the guard's house at the gate of the university, hoping not to be seen. After I got forty to fifty yards, when a woman came running after me yelling in Chinese. I finally turned to her and said, 'No, it is all right,' and smiled and I kept walking on. She retreated, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, and I went on to the first building, where I saw some books through the windows. As I approached the front door, the first person I met was a middle-aged woman who spoke good English. She was a biology teacher, and we discussed the life principle as she took me to the history department and then reception. There, with two other Chinese persons, we discussed Chinese politics, and I explained the natural social body, varṇāśrama." He was discussing varṇāśrama with them. "However, as they began to understand how much sense it made, they said I had better talk to the people of the political philosophy but were unwilling to arrange it, and I was unable to also. They admitted to still having a class society in China, but the goal was to have no classes, with the means of production so arranged that everyone could have what they wanted. Such demons. They accept Marx, Lenin and Mao as absolute authority and plan to spread this perfect social system, as they call it, all over the world. I gave one Gītā to the main public library. They accepted when they found out that I was a Canadian and thanked me very much. Then, on October 25th, with saffron dhotī and Chinese cymbals, I went out on the main street in Kwangchow in the evening, chanting the holy name." This is in China, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "At first there were many suspicious looks, but in a few minutes I had a large crowd following me. Soon the children were running in front, with some of them dancing. I also began to dance, and a loud uproar ensued from the audience. The crowd grew larger and extended out into the road, where the buses began to honk their horns. Just then a cymbal fell from the string to the ground. As I picked it up and repaired it, the crowd came very close all around and tightly crowded. I chanted loudly, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa,' and heard one 'Kṛṣṇa,' in return. I responded with 'Kṛṣ-ṇa' loudly, and three or four answered. Soon I had about twenty responding to the chant, but decided to go on, as the crowd was getting too big. A few minutes later a man broke through the crowd and grabbed my arm and motioned me to stop. I continued, and soon another grabbed the other arm and pulled me into a shop, closed the doors and offered me a seat. The crowd responded with an uproar and banged on the doors for a little while. I had to wait about fifteen minutes until a person came who spoke English. He told me I was causing interference with traffic, and soon after they let me go. I did not go out again as I did not want to agitate them too far. I had previously chanted in a bus and showed the people pictures of Kṛṣṇa. It was very ecstatic. I have been told since then that the incidents would be heard of by nearly everyone in Kwangchow as a conversation topic. Perhaps the name of Kṛṣṇa will also be repeated many times by many people..." (break) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So China has sacrificed everything. What is their aim?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In China? Their aim... They say that their aim is to establish a classless society where everyone gets everything that they require. Economic aim.

Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their entire outlook is an economic one. They have no... They don't feel that there's any importance to culture or any of the finer sentiments except that they may further the economic consideration. Politically also, their political understanding is also ultimately directed for economics. Any of their political dealings with other countries are all ultimately to establish this economic Communism.

Prabhupāda: How human society is falling down.

Page Title:Recent (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:26 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=191, Let=0
No. of Quotes:191