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Reason and argument

Srimad-Bhagavatam

SB Canto 1

The Bhagavad-gītā begins with the problems of life by discriminating the soul from the elements of matter and proves by all reason and argument that the soul is indestructible in all circumstances and that the outer covering of matter, the body and the mind, change for another term of material existence which is full of miseries.
SB 1.15.27, Purport:

The process of being liberated from the misconception of material identification is called, in different stages, fruitive activity, empiric philosophy and devotional service, up to transcendental realization. Such transcendental realization is made possible by dovetailing all the above items in relation with the Lord. Prescribed duties of the human being, as directed in the Vedas, can gradually purify the sinful mind of the conditioned soul and raise him to the stage of knowledge. The purified stage of acquiring knowledge becomes the basis of devotional service to the Lord. As long as one is engaged in researching the solution of the problems of life, his knowledge is called jñāna, or purified knowledge, but on realizing the actual solution of life, one becomes situated in the devotional service of the Lord. The Bhagavad-gītā begins with the problems of life by discriminating the soul from the elements of matter and proves by all reason and argument that the soul is indestructible in all circumstances and that the outer covering of matter, the body and the mind, change for another term of material existence which is full of miseries. The Bhagavad-gītā is therefore meant for terminating all different types of miseries, and Arjuna took shelter of this great knowledge, which had been imparted to him during the Kurukṣetra battle.

SB Canto 4

It is commonly said that to give protection to animals, a stick is needed because animals cannot reason and argue. Their reasoning and argument is argumentum ad baculum; unless there is a rod, they do not obey.
SB 4.7.14, Purport:

In the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is confirmed that even though one performs the rituals of the Vedas, if he does not develop a sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all his labor in performing Vedic rituals is considered to be simply a waste of time. Lord Śiva's aim in destroying the Dakṣa yajña was to punish Dakṣa because by neglecting him (Lord Śiva), Dakṣa was committing a great offense. Lord Śiva's punishment was just like that of a cowherd boy, who keeps a stick to frighten his animals. It is commonly said that to give protection to animals, a stick is needed because animals cannot reason and argue. Their reasoning and argument is argumentum ad baculum; unless there is a rod, they do not obey. Force is required for the animalistic class of men, whereas those who are advanced are convinced by reasons, arguments and scriptural authority. Persons who are simply attached to Vedic rituals, without further advancement of devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, are almost like animals, and Lord Śiva is in charge of giving them protection and sometimes punishing them, as he punished Dakṣa.

SB Canto 10.1 to 10.13

One should not try to understand the supreme cause by argument or reasoning.
SB 10.8.41, Purport:

One simply has to realize the greatness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One should not try to understand Him by any material means, subtle or gross. Mother Yaśodā, being a simple woman, could not find out the real cause of the vision; therefore, out of maternal affection, she simply offered obeisances unto the Supreme Lord to protect her child. She could do nothing but offer obeisances to the Lord. It is said, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet (Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma parva 5.22). One should not try to understand the supreme cause by argument or reasoning. When we are beset by some problem for which we can find no reason, there is no alternative than to surrender to the Supreme Lord and offer Him our respectful obeisances. Then our position will be secure.

The materialist wants to understand everything by the āroha-panthā—by argument and reason—but transcendental matters cannot be understood in this way. Rather, one must follow the avaroha-panthā, the process of descending knowledge.
SB 10.13.57, Purport:

Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has said that unless we accept acintya in the Supreme, we cannot accommodate the conception of God. This must be understood. Therefore we say that the words of śāstra should be taken as they are, without change, since they are beyond our arguments. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "That which is acintya cannot be ascertained by argument." People generally argue, but our process is not to argue but to accept the Vedic knowledge as it is. When Kṛṣṇa says, "This is superior, and this is inferior," we accept what He says. It is not that we argue, "Why is this superior and that inferior?" If one argues, for him the knowledge is lost.

This path of acceptance is called avaroha-panthā The word avaroha is related to the word avatāra, which means"that which descends." The materialist wants to understand everything by the āroha-panthā—by argument and reason—but transcendental matters cannot be understood in this way. Rather, one must follow the avaroha-panthā, the process of descending knowledge. Therefore one must accept the paramparā system.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta

CC Adi-lila

Since Lord Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, reason and argument establish that His position is always supreme.
CC Adi 2.86, Purport:

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam has listed the avatāras, the plenary expansions of the puruṣa, and Lord Kṛṣṇa appears among them. But the Bhāgavatam further explains Lord Kṛṣṇa's specific position as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Since Lord Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, reason and argument establish that His position is always supreme.

Without logic and reason there can be no question of accepting the Absolute Truth. Unfortunately, when such logicians take to this path without the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they remain on the platform of logic and argument and do not advance in spiritual life.
CC Adi 8.15, Translation and Purport:

If you are indeed interested in logic and argument, kindly apply it to the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If you do so, you will find it to be strikingly wonderful.

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura comments in this connection that people in general, in their narrow-minded conception of life, create many different types of humanitarian activities, but the humanitarian activities inaugurated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu are different. For logicians who want to accept only that which is proven through logic and argument, it is a fact that without logic and reason there can be no question of accepting the Absolute Truth. Unfortunately, when such logicians take to this path without the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they remain on the platform of logic and argument and do not advance in spiritual life. However, if one is intelligent enough to apply his arguments and logic to the subtle understanding of the fundamental spiritual substance, he will be able to know that a poor fund of knowledge established on the basis of material logic cannot help one understand the Absolute Truth, which is beyond the reach of imperfect senses. The Mahābhārata therefore says, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. (Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma-parva 5.22) How can that which is beyond the imagination or sensory speculation of mundane creatures be approached simply by logic? Logic and argument are very poor in spiritual strength and always imperfect when applied to spiritual understanding. By putting forward mundane logic one frequently comes to the wrong conclusion regarding the Absolute Truth, and as a result of such a conclusion one may fall down to accept a body like that of a jackal.

Scientists cannot perfectly explain where the chemicals of the world are manufactured, but one can explain this perfectly by accepting the inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord. There is no reason for denying this argument.
CC Adi 16.81, Purport:

Scientists cannot perfectly explain where the chemicals of the world are manufactured, but one can explain this perfectly by accepting the inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord. There is no reason for denying this argument. Since there are potencies in the living entities who are samples of the Personality of Godhead, how much potency there must be in the Supreme Godhead Himself. As described in the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: "He is the chief eternal of all eternals and the chief living entity among all living entities." (Kaṭha Upaniṣad, 2.2.13)

Unfortunately, atheistic science will not accept that matter comes from life. Scientists insist upon their most illogical and foolish theory that life comes from matter, although this is quite impossible. They cannot prove in their laboratories that matter can produce life, yet there are thousands and thousands of examples illustrating that matter comes from life. Therefore in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī says that as soon as one accepts the inconceivable potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, no great philosopher or scientist can put forward any thesis to contradict the Lord's power.

Following in the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whenever there are obstacles the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement should kill the opposition with reason and argument and thus stop their demoniac behavior.
CC Adi 17.130, Purport:

Gandhi is known for having started the movement of nonviolent civil disobedience in India, but about five hundred years before him, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu started His movement of nonviolent civil disobedience to the order of Chand Kazi. It is not necessary to commit violence to stop the opposition from hindering a movement, for one can kill their demoniac behavior with reason and argument. Following in the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whenever there are obstacles the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement should kill the opposition with reason and argument and thus stop their demoniac behavior. If we became violent in every case, it would be difficult for us to manage our affairs. We should therefore follow in the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who disobeyed the order of Chand Kazi but subdued him with reason and argument.

CC Adi 17.167, Translation:

"There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument."

CC Madhya-lila

Māyāvādī philosophers have no sufficient reason for being impersonalists. They blindly follow a principle that cannot be supported by reason or argument.
CC Madhya 17.104, Purport:

The Personality of Godhead is worshiped by exalted demigods like Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva. The original Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Śaṅkarācārya, also accepted the fact that the Lord's form is transcendental: nārāyaṇaḥ paro ’vyaktāt. "Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is beyond the avyakta, the unmanifested material energy." Avyaktād aṇḍa-sambhavaḥ: "This material world is a creation of that unmanifested material energy." However, Nārāyaṇa has His own eternal form, which is not created by the material energy. Simply by worshiping the form of the Lord, one is purified. However, Māyāvādī sannyāsīs are impersonalist philosophers, and they describe the form of the Lord as māyā, or false. How can one be purified by worshiping something false? Māyāvādī philosophers have no sufficient reason for being impersonalists. They blindly follow a principle that cannot be supported by reason or argument. This was the situation with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, the chief Māyāvādī sannyāsī of Benares. He was supposed to teach Vedānta philosophy, but he would not accept the form of the Lord; therefore he was attacked with leprosy. Nonetheless, he continued to commit sins by describing the Absolute Truth as impersonal. The Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, always displays pastimes and activities, but Māyāvādī sannyāsīs claim that these activities are false.

Lectures

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Actually we see that in the air there is living entity, in the water there is living entity, in the land there is living entity. So why not in the fire? Fire is one of the elements like air, water, land. So if in other elements there is possibility of living beings, why not in one? What is the reason? What is the argument?
Lecture on BG 2.20-25 -- Seattle, October 14, 1968:

So why one should be astonished that there is living entity? Then why they should deny that there is no living entity? They are denying that in the moon planet also there is no living entity. Why? Why? Living entity can be everywhere. Sarva-ga. This very word has been used in Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-ga. You'll find it. Sarva-ga means he can go everywhere. He can live in the fire also. And actually we see that in the air there is living entity, in the water there is living entity, in the land there is living entity. So why not in the fire? Fire is one of the elements like air, water, land. So if in other elements there is possibility of living beings, why not in one? What is the reason? What is the argument? And Vedic literature gives us information that in the fire there is germ also. Just like in water there is germ; in the earth there is germ; in the air there is germ, living entities. Similarly in the fire there is also. And here it is said it cannot be burned. Even it is in the fire, there is no possibility of being burned. So why not in the fire? It requires a different type of body only. That's all. Just like the fish. It has got a different type of body. It is living very comfortably in the water. You have got a different type of body. You are living in the land very comfortably. You cannot live in the water. The fish cannot live in the land. Similarly, in the fiery planet, just like sun, there must be living entities. There must be. You cannot say by any reason that there is no living entities. How you can say? If it is a fact that living entity cannot be burned. Is it not? Just try to understand.

So Bhagavad-gītā gives you full information so that you can accept God with your reason, with your argument, with your knowledge. It is not blind following.
Lecture on BG 7.2 -- San Francisco, September 11, 1968:

Disciple means who accepts the discipline. Śiṣya. Śiṣya. The exact Sanskrit word is śiṣya. A śiṣya means... There is a verb, Sanskrit verb, which is called śās. Śās means controlling. From śās, the "śāstra" comes. Śāstra means controlling books. And from śas, śastra. Śastra means weapons. When argument fails, reason fails... Just like the state controls. First of all they give you the laws. If you break the laws, if you don't follow the regulation books, means śāstra, then next step is śastra. Śastra means weapons. If you don't follow the regulation of the government, keep to the right, then there is police batons—śastra. You have to be controlled. If you are gentleman, then you be controlled under the instruction of the śāstras. And if you are defying, then there is trident of Durgādevī. You have seen Durgādevī, the picture, trident, threefold miseries. You cannot, I mean to say, violate any rules and regulations; as of the state, similarly of the supreme state Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible. Just take for example there are some health rules. If we eat more, then you will be controlled by some disease. You'll have indigestion and the doctor will advise you not to eat three days. So there is control—by nature. Nature means God's law. Automatically working. Foolish people do not see God's law, but there is God's law. The sun is rising just exactly in the time, the moon is rising exactly in the time. The first year, first January, has come exactly in time.

So there is control. But foolish people, they do not see it. Everything is controlled. So to know God and how things are working and how it is being controlled, these things are to be known. We should not go simply by sentiment. Religious sentiment is good for persons who follow blindly. But at the present moment, people are advanced in so-called education. So Bhagavad-gītā gives you full information so that you can accept God with your reason, with your argument, with your knowledge. It is not blind following. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a sentiment. It is backed by knowledge and practical knowledge. Vijñānam. Jñānaṁ vijñāna sahitam. So without vijñāna sahitam... And the process is to understand this knowledge is to be a surrendered soul. Therefore we disciple... Disciple means one who accepts the discipline. Without accepting discipline, we cannot make any progress. It is not possible. Any field of knowledge, any field of activities, if you want to be aware, scientifically and factually, then you should accept the controlling principle. Samagreṇa vakṣ ya svarūpaṁ sarvokaraṁ yatra dhiyaṁ tad ubhaya-viṣayakaṁ jñānaṁ vyaktum.

Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously; your problems are solved. Now, if you don't believe in it, then come to argument, come to philosophy, come to reason. Go on arguing. There are volumes of books. You can be convinced. You can learn it. Every answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You.
Lecture on BG 7.14 -- Hamburg, September 8, 1969:

English boy (2): Is it possible for one to make it in this life? This one...? Is it possible that one falls down?

Prabhupāda: It is possible in one second, provided you are serious. It is not difficult. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, one, when one is intelligent, wise, fully grown, wise, he surrenders unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So if I am intelligent, then I will see that "If that is the goal of life, that after many, many births one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why not myself surrender immediately?" This is intelligence. If this is a fact, that one has to come to this point after cultivating knowledge for many, many births, then why not accept it immediately? Why shall I wait for many, many births if this is a fact?

So that requires little intelligence. It does not require many, many births. It requires little intelligence. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously; your problems are solved. Now, if you don't believe in it, then come to argument, come to philosophy, come to reason. Go on arguing. There are volumes of books. You can be convinced. You can learn it. Every answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You can try to understand it with your reason, with your arguments. It is open. (break) ...like Arjuna. Arjuna was taught Bhagavad-gītā, how much time? At most, within half an hour. Because he was very intelligent. This Bhagavad-gītā, the people of the world are reading. Very, very learned scholar, wise men, they are reading. They are trying to understand, giving different interpretation. And there are thousands of edition, commentaries. But Arjuna was intelligent; he understood it within half an hour.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a science. You have to take it scientifically, as they are described in the authoritative books, and test it by your reason and argument and knowledge, and follow it. It is science. It is not sentiment.
Lecture on BG 7.15-18 -- New York, October 9, 1966:

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a science. You have to take it scientifically, as they are described in the authoritative books, and test it by your reason and argument and knowledge, and follow it. It is science. It is not sentiment. Whatever we are doing here, the dancing, singing and everything, that is all scientific. Simply you have to understand it. Therefore jñānī, only a person who is in knowledge, who is in knowledge of the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can make an rapid advancement, and he is very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Because slow but sure, he is making sure progress. It is no sentiment. So jñānī. Priyo hi jñāninaḥ atyartham. Atyartham means very... Aham. Kṛṣṇa is very dear to the person in knowledge, and that man is also very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Reciprocal. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will love more than you. You can... What capacity you have got to love Kṛṣṇa? But Kṛṣṇa will love. He has got immense capacity. So that is a science.

If by Kṛṣṇa's process, by God's process, or nature's process, such a big tree can be put within the small seed, is it very impossible for Kṛṣṇa to keep all these planets floating in His energy? So we have to believe. We have no other explanation. But we have to understand in this way. Our reasoning, our argument, our logic should go in this way.
Lecture on BG 9.2-5 -- New York, November 23, 1966:

There are so many yogis who say, "Oh, the sun, moon and everything is floating within me," imitating. They think that "If Kṛṣṇa, if Kṛṣṇa can say like that, I am that, I am also Kṛṣṇa. I am also God. So I can also say like that." But Kṛṣṇa can show the universal form. Will you please show me the univer...? "No, that I cannot." Oh, Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill in seven years old. Can you lift a one mound, or hundred pounds with your finger? "Oh, that I cannot do." That is the difference between the imitation God and real God. "Because Kṛṣṇa is saying, therefore I shall imitate and say." And because Kṛṣṇa performed rāsa-līlā... "Oh, Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives." "Oh, can you marry one and keep her very nicely in a palace?" "Oh, that I cannot do." Then how can you be Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa said so many things, wonderful, and He acted also wonderful. If you believe one thing and do not believe another thing, then it is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya. I cannot believe half. If you believe, you believe full.

So for a devotee these informations of Kṛṣṇa, oh, become so... "My Kṛṣṇa is so God. Oh, my God is so powerful." And, I think, sometimes I recited one story. This is for very instructive, that Nārada Muni, he used to visit Nārāyaṇa every day. So when he was passing on the road, so one very learned brāhmaṇa and taking thrice bath and everything very nicely, he asked Nārada Muni, "Oh, you are going to Lord. Will you inquire when I shall get my salvation?" "All right. I shall ask." And then another cobbler, he was under the tree, sewing the shoes, old shoes. He also saw Nārada Muni. He also inquired, "Will you kindly inquire from God when my salvation is...?" Now, when he inquired Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa... Nārada Muni goes generally to Nārāyaṇa, in another planet. So "Yes, two, one brāhmaṇa and one cobbler, they inquired like this. So may I know what is their destination?" So Nārāyaṇa said, "Well, yes, the cobbler, this after giving up this body, he's coming here at Vaikuṇṭha." "And what about that brāhmaṇa?" "Oh, he has to remain there still so many births, or I do not know when he's coming." So Nārada Muni was astonished, that "I saw that he's very nice brāhmaṇa, and he's a cobbler. Why is that?" So he inquired that "I could not, cannot understand the mystery. Why You say that cobbler is coming this, after this body, and why not this brāhmaṇa?" "Oh, that will, you'll understand. If they inquire that 'What Kṛṣṇa, or Nārāyaṇa, was doing in the, in His abode,' so just explain that He was taking one elephant from the holes of a," I mean to say, what is called...?

Devotee (1): The eye of a needle. Eye...

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no...

Devotee (1): The eye of a needle.

Devotee (2): Needle.

Prabhupāda: Needle. Yes. "Through the hole of a needle, He's pulling an elephant this side and this side." "All right." So when he again approached the brāhmaṇa, the brāhmaṇa said, "Oh, you have seen Lord?" "Yes." "So what was the Lord doing?" "He was doing this: through the point of a needle He was pushing one elephant this way and that way." "Oh, therefore I have no faith in your... I, I, I have got all respect for your garb, but we don't believe all this nonsense." Then Nārada could understand, "Oh, this man has no faith. He simply reads book. That's all." And when he went to the cobbler, he also asked, "Oh, you have seen? What Nārāyaṇa was doing?" He also said that "He was doing like this..." Oh, he began to cry, "Oh, my Lord is wonderful. He can do anything." So Nārada inquired, "So do you believe that Lord can push one elephant through the holes of a needle?" "Oh, why not? I must believe." "Then what is your reason?" "Oh, my reason? I am sitting under this banyan tree, and so many fruits are falling daily, and in each fruit there are thousands of seeds, and each seed there is a tree. If in a small seed there can be big tree like that, is it very impossible to accept that Kṛṣṇa is putting one elephant through the, I mean, the holes of a needle? He has kept such a nice tree in the seed." So this is called belief. So unbelievers and believer means the believers, they are not blind believers. They have reason. If by Kṛṣṇa's process, by God's process, or nature's process, such a big tree can be put within the small seed, is it very impossible for Kṛṣṇa to keep all these planets floating in His energy? So we have to believe. We have no other explanation. But we have to understand in this way. Our reasoning, our argument, our logic should go in this way.

So those who are devotee... Just like the cobbler. He may be a cobbler. They believe everything. And those who are not devotee, they'll say, "Oh, these are all bluffs. It is all bluff." But they are not bluff. It is simply meant for the devotees. They can understand. The nondevotees, they cannot understand.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

Nowadays the theory, scientists' theory, is going on that life is made of chemicals. That means matter. This has been discussed five thousand years ago by Vyāsadeva, whether the origin of life is life or matter. So he says that the origin of everything is life because Vāsudeva is also life. And now you come to your argument and reason, whether origin of life is matter or life. That you have to discuss.
Lecture on SB 1.1.1 -- Caracas, February 21, 1975:

Anyone who has understood that everything, whatever we see, that is Vāsudeva... But we should always remember that Vāsudeva is everything; still, everything is not Vāsudeva. Just like in a big factory. In your country or in America that Ford, Mr. Ford, he has got very big factory. So in the factory, everywhere the Mr. Ford is there. But if you have to see Mr. Ford, you cannot see the car Ford and you become satisfied. The car is also written there, "Ford." So if I want to see Mr. Ford and if we see the car, and we say, "Now I have met with Mr. Ford," that is foolishness. (laughter) The car is Ford, but Ford is not the car.

In this way try to understand. Everything is God, but everything is not God. In this way you have to understand. Don't be misled by the Māyāvādī philosophy that "Everything is God and my knowledge is finished." That is imperfect knowledge. Then the origin of everything, what is the nature of that origin? That is being explained now. Vāsudeva is everything, accepted, but whether Vāsudeva is a living being or a dull matter. Nowadays the theory, scientists' theory, is going on that life is made of chemicals. That means matter. This has been discussed five thousand years ago by Vyāsadeva, whether the origin of life is life or matter. So he says that the origin of everything is life because Vāsudeva is also life. And now you come to your argument and reason, whether origin of life is matter or life. That you have to discuss. So here it is said that origin is life because here it is said, yato 'nvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Just like if I am taken as the origin of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that means I know everything directly and indirectly of all this movement. If I do not know directly or indirectly everything of this movement, then I cannot be called the founder-ācārya. And as soon as the origin becomes a knower, he is life. So therefore dull matter cannot be the knower of everything.

If one is demon, and if you can turn into a devotee by your logic, by your arguments, then that is also, he's killed, his demonic principle is killed—now he's a saintly person. That is also killing. Not that... Kali-yuga, they're already very poverty-stricken, poor. So this physical killing is too much for them. They should be killed by argument, reason, scientific proposition.
Lecture on SB 1.8.41 -- Los Angeles, May 3, 1973:

So Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa has got two businesses, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Two business. He is giving protection to the sādhus, to the devotees. Just like Kṛṣṇa is giving protection to the Pāṇḍavas, to the Vṛṣṇis, because they are devotees. And similarly He's killing Kaṁsa, Aghāsura, Bakāsura. I think His killing business was a major business than protection. From the life of Kṛṣṇa we see in the Kṛṣṇa book... So if you take statistics how much time He devoted for killing and how much time He devoted for protecting, we shall see He devoted more time for killing. You see. So that is also Kṛṣṇa's business. So those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious... Killing, we don't mean that you take weapon. That is not possible in this age. Neither you have got the strength. If you kill, then you will be killed also. Not that. But there are two kinds of victory. By logic, by reason, by education you can kill their demonic propensities. That is also killing. If one is demon, and if you can turn into a devotee by your logic, by your arguments, then that is also, he's killed, his demonic principle is killed—now he's a saintly person. That is also killing. Not that... Kali-yuga, they're already very poverty-stricken, poor. So this physical killing is too much for them. They should be killed by argument, reason, scientific proposition.

So Kṛṣṇa has recommended that "If you want to know things with reason and argument, then try to understand Vedānta-sūtra." Those who want to know the Absolute Truth through reasoning and argument, then one should study Vedānta-sūtra.
Lecture on SB 1.16.12 -- Los Angeles, January 9, 1974:

So actually, if we want to have knowledge of everything, the source of knowledge is Vedas. And the essence of Veda is called Vedānta. And the descriptive explanation of Vedānta is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Brahma-sūtra. Brahma-sūtra is the Vedānta philosophy. Kṛṣṇa has also referred to Brahma-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). He recommends that hetumadbhir prasthāna. There are three prasthānas, and Brahma-sūtra is also prasthāna, the way of understanding. So Kṛṣṇa has recommended that "If you want to know things with reason and argument, then try to understand Vedānta-sūtra." Those who want to know the Absolute Truth through reasoning and argument, then one should study Vedānta-sūtra. But Vedānta-sūtra... Sūtra means codes. Just like they have got code book. One word, it is meaning so many other things. Businessmen, they have got codes. When they send cable to their customer or to their principle, they use some codes. It saves so many words. So Brahma-sūtra. Sūtra means codes. So in that code also, required explanation. That explanation is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **. Brahma-sūtrāṇām, the codes explained in the Brahma-sūtra, that is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

There are 8,400,000 species of life, and they have got forms. They are sons of God. So where is our experience that a son who has got a form, his father is impersonal, no form? Where you have got this experience? If the son has got form and the father is formless, how it can be? What is the reason? Where is the argument? But they are concluding like that.
Lecture on SB 2.1.5 -- Delhi, November 8, 1973:

If you do not know who is Bhagavān, if you do not know who is Hari, if you do not know who is Īśvara, then what you will hear about Him? That is the problem. Those who are after God, they make God nirākāra. "There is no ākāra. There is no form." God is the origin of all forms, but the poor God has no form. Just see. This is the conclusion. He is the origin of all forms, yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante, from whom everything is coming out. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything... We have also come from God. We are also claimed as sons of God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). There are 8,400,000 species of life, and they have got forms. They are sons of God. So where is our experience that a son who has got a form, his father is impersonal, no form? Where you have got this experience? If the son has got form and the father is formless, how it can be? What is the reason? Where is the argument? But they are concluding like that. I am the son of my father, so my father has got a form. I have got a form. His father has got form. His father has got form. Even if we do not see the tenth generation, up to, whether it was form or formless, but it is supposed that he must have a form. So similarly, if you ultimately go to the supreme father, then how it is formless? No. Formless is not the actual realization of God. That is the beginning. That may be beginning. To realize the energy of God, that is formless. Just like the sun. The sunshine is formless, but the sun globe is not formless, or the person, the predominating Deity within the sunglobe, he is not formless. The sunshine is formless. So this formless realization... Just like the sun. Sun is also light. Sun is also heat. The sunshine is also light, sunshine is also heat. But this heat and light, energy of the sun, they are not actually the sun. It is only the energy.

It is not that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or Bhaktivedanta Swami who has started, he has concocted this idea." No. It is standard. You come to argument, to reason. This formula that your interest is to love God. You have no other interest in this human form of life. Then your problems of life will be solved. Otherwise there is no possibility.
Lecture on SB 2.2.5 -- Los Angeles, December 2, 1968:

Let anybody come before us and we shall be able to convince him that this is the only solution for all the problems of the world. You try to love God and everything will be solved. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They do not know what is the solution of world problems. What is that solution? They do not know the solution is svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum, your interest is to love God. Unfortunately, you have been misled, durāśayā, by a false hope. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ, by external energy. The leaders... Now we are preaching love of God, nobody is interested. But if we had given some political bluff that "Here will be such and such party's meeting, and it will give you heaven hand to hand," oh, people will throng. You see. Because they are cheating. Satya bole ta mare lakta(?). There is a nice poet, he says that if you tell the truth, people will come with their logs to hurt you. And chuta jagat bolai(?): and if you bluff them, they will be very nicely follower. This is the position. Actually, this is the solution. It is not that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or Bhaktivedanta Swami who has started, he has concocted this idea." No. It is standard. You come to argument, to reason. This formula that your interest is to love God. You have no other interest in this human form of life. Then your problems of life will be solved. Otherwise there is no possibility. If any other person is giving you any other idea, he's simply misleading you.

God is everywhere, so God is here also. Why you are talking of metal and wood? From reasoning, argument, if God is everywhere, why not He is in the metal or wood? In your eyes it is metal, but we see God. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as saw Jagannātha, He fainted.
Lecture on SB 2.9.4 -- Japan, April 22, 1972:

If God is everywhere, why not in the temple? These are the atheistic proposal. If God is everywhere, so why not in the temple? In the temple I can see God, at least. The form of God, it is being worshiped, offered prasādam. So there is a spiritual atmosphere. So why shall I not go to the temple? So actually God is everywhere. That's a fact. But so long I am not purified, I have to see God as they are prescribed in the śāstra. Here the Deity, He is God, but because I have no power to see God, therefore I see that "Oh, it is made of wood. It is made of metal." That is my imperfect senses (perception?). But God is there also. God is everywhere, so God is here also. Why you are talking of metal and wood? From reasoning, argument, if God is everywhere, why not He is in the metal or wood? In your eyes it is metal, but we see God. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as saw Jagannātha, He fainted. Therefore viśuddhy-artham. Ātma-tattva-viśuddhy-artham.

Kṛṣṇa does not say anything without any reason. Nobody says. No authority says like that. So what to speak of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is the greatest authority. If we blindly accept His statement, that is also good, and if we apply our reason and argument, that also you can do.
Lecture on SB 6.1.1-4 -- Melbourne, May 20, 1975:

Māyā, the material nature, is very, very strict, but if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he surpasses the laws of material nature. That is possible. Māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). How? Just like we are trying to go to this planet or that planet, but we have been unsuccessful. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately after death you immediately go to the Kṛṣṇa planet, immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). So we Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we believe in the statement of Kṛṣṇa and act accordingly. So we have no difficulty, because we are under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are assured, if we actually act according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then we are sure to go back to Kṛṣṇa, back to Godhead, without any difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says,

janma karma ca me divyam
yo jānāti tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mam eti kaunteya
(BG 4.9)

So we believe. We blindly believe, blindly or knowingly. It is not possible knowingly, but if we accept Kṛṣṇa's argument, then we have to believe. Kṛṣṇa does not say anything without any reason. Nobody says. No authority says like that. So what to speak of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is the greatest authority. If we blindly accept His statement, that is also good, and if we apply our reason and argument, that also you can do. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

He is giving very practical example that because the soul is within this body, therefore bodily changes are taking place. Now, suppose if a child is born dead. That... You can keep it by some method, preservative method, but it will not grow. One can understand very easily. Because the soul is there, therefore the child from the womb of his mother grows gradually. Grows means changing body. Everything, information, is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The man and woman, father and mother, after sex the two secretion is emulsified and it takes a form like a pea. And the small living entity, the measurement is also given. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitaḥ: (CC Madhya 19.140) "One ten-thousandth part of the upper portion point of hair." You know the point of hair. Now divided into ten thousand part and take one part. That is the form of the soul. That little spark takes shelter into that emulsified pea, and because the soul is there within, it develops from the mother's womb. The child does not develop all of a sudden. Every mother knows that. It grows gradually, little by little, little by little. When it is seven months, then it is further..., it moves. So in this way the... Kṛṣṇa says that don't take this body as the living being. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body, the soul is there. So everyone can understand.

So everything is there, and if you like to take advantage of this movement and make your life perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead, then fully utilize this center, our Melbourne center. Come here, read our books, and argue. Try to understand with your full knowledge, no blindly acceptance. There is reason. There is argument. There is philosophy. There is science.
Lecture on SB 6.1.3 -- Melbourne, May 22, 1975:

So our process of knowledge—you should take from the supreme authority. Then we save time for research work. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We take perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. I may be imperfect. Just like child is imperfect, so I may be imperfect, you may be imperfect, but if you take the perfect knowledge from the supreme perfect, then your knowledge is perfect. That is the process. This is called avaroha-panthā, knowledge coming, deductive knowledge. So everything is there, and if you like to take advantage of this movement and make your life perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead, then fully utilize this center, our Melbourne center. Come here, read our books, and argue. Try to understand with your full knowledge, no blindly acceptance. There is reason. There is argument. There is philosophy. There is science. Everything is there. And if you accept that "Simply by chanting, I shall realize," that is also allowed. Both ways: if you accept this simple process, that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God," that is also fact, and if you think, "What is this nonsense, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" then you read books. Both ways we are prepared. Come and take advantage of this movement.

So much facility is offered. And the Bhagavad-gītā is there. You can understand with all your reason, with all your argument, with all your senses what is God. It is nothing dogmatic. It is all reasonable, philosophical.
Lecture on SB 7.6.1 -- Montreal, June 10, 1968:

So much facility is offered. And the Bhagavad-gītā is there. You can understand with all your reason, with all your argument, with all your senses what is God. It is nothing dogmatic. It is all reasonable, philosophical. Unfortunately they have decided that God is dead. How God can be dead? This is another rascaldom. You are not dead; how God can be dead? So there is no question of God's being dead. He is always present, just like sun is always present. Only the rascals, they say there is no sun. There is sun. It is out of your sight, that's all. Similarly, "Because we cannot see God, therefore God is dead," these are rascaldom. It is not very good conclusion. So one has to understand what is God, divyam. So Kṛṣṇa says anyone who understands this philosophy or science of God, philosophy... (break) ...called the science of sciences. So therefore I use this word "science." So science of God. Then, after leaving this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma na eti (BG 4.9). He does not come back again to take this conditional material body. Then, he's finished? No. He says, mām eti so 'rjuna. "My dear Arjuna, that person comes to Me." That means you are transferred to the spiritual kingdom or God's kingdom.

If you want to understand God, then this is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other alternative. You cannot place any other scripture collected from the world where the science of God is so elaborately stated, which you can test with all reason and argument. That is Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we have to learn the science.
Lecture on SB 7.6.6-9 -- Montreal, June 23, 1968:

So we can see practically also that somehow or other, in your country this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is introduced practically only for one year, but it is being popularized. People are taking it very seriously. Even some places where I never visited, they are organizing centers. I have received information from Buffalo, from Atlantic City. One little boy, Terry, he is organizing. He has invited some of our brahmacārīs to go there. And I have received letter from Germany, from Holland. They also have begun chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In England, the Britain, the Beatles, they are also chanting. So this is getting popular in the Western countries, and it will get, I am sure. So this chanting process introduced by Lord Caitanya should be seriously taken up so that our aim of human life will be successful. We have forgotten. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). We have forgotten... The modern civilization has... In your country I was reading a little history that in 1813 or some year the government introduced that "We trust in God," "Trust in God," and that was declared by the secretary to be published on the coins or on the paper currency, and we see sometimes. But simply trust in God is not sufficient. We must know what is God. Trusting something oblivion, something fantasy, that is no trust. You must know where to put your trust. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You have to know this, what is God. You simply believe in God... Faith in God is very nice. That is said then the... Very nice. It is better than godless person, that one who believes in God. That is all right. So this writing, that "We trust in God," it is very good. It is better than the communist countries, who say, "We do not trust in God." It is better. But simply official writing or trust will not do. We have to understand. And if you want to understand God, then this is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other alternative. You cannot place any other scripture collected from the world where the science of God is so elaborately stated, which you can test with all reason and argument. That is Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we have to learn the science. As you are learning so many department of knowledge, similarly, this is also another department of knowledge, to learn the science of God. The government should come forward to popularize this movement and to educate people in the science of God.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures

If we want to understand... Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception," avāṅ manasā gocaraḥ, "beyond your expression, beyond your knowledge, don't apply your so-called argument and reason." That is Vedānta study. If, if you do not understand, put question to your spiritual master, try to understand.
Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.107-109 -- San Francisco, February 15, 1967:

So He's not so easy to understand. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is born in Mathurā. His father is Vasudeva. Oh, He..." No. He's unborn. He's unborn, but I am seeing that He's born. Just like sun is unborn. I am seeing that at five o'clock sun is born in the eastern side of New York City. This is my foolishness. Sun is never born. He's always there. It is my imperfectness that I am seeing that sun is born this hour. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is never born. Kṛṣṇa is just like sun. So as they are, if we want to understand... Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception," avāṅ manasā gocaraḥ, "beyond your expression, beyond your knowledge, don't apply your so-called argument and reason." That is Vedānta study. If, if you do not understand, put question to your spiritual master, try to understand, but as a matter of fact, you should know, "What is stated here, that is all right. It is due to my imperfectness of knowledge I cannot just now understand it. Let me ask my spiritual master and let me understand it properly." But a thing as it is, that is all right. We must take it. Mukhya-vṛttye. Mukhya means "as it is." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). What commentation you can give? If the Vedas says, Īśopaniṣad, that "Everything belongs to God," how can you deny it? What is your argument? What is your...? You cannot deny it.

But generally it is advised that preachers should not talk this atheist class because they'll not..., they simply argue. Their only point is simply argue and waste your time. That's all. They'll never accept, however you may try to convince him with reason and argument, they'll never...
Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.353-354 -- New York, December 26, 1966:

As soon as one becomes atheist, oh, it is very difficult to convince him. You see. Therefore our preaching should avoid the atheist class. Of course, if we stop that, then we cannot find who is theist in the... Time is so nice that 99.9% all atheists. So we have to take the risk of talking with atheist also. But generally it is advised that preachers should not talk this atheist class because they'll not..., they simply argue. Their only point is simply argue and waste your time. That's all. They'll never accept, however you may try to convince him with reason and argument, they'll never... Here is a śloka by Yamunācārya. It is, say, about one thousand years before, this was the same condition for the atheist. He says,

tvāṁ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ
sattvena sāttvikatayā prabalaiś ca śāstraiḥ
prakhyāta-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mattaiś ca
naivāsura-prakṛtayaḥ prabhavanti boddhum

There are different kinds of authorities. First authority is śāstra, authorized śāstra, scripture. There the description of avatāra, the characteristics and his work, they are mentioned there. And prabalaiś ca śāstrair. Prabala means the very powerful. Just like Vedānta philosophy, it is very powerful. Bhagavad-gītā, it is very powerful. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is very powerful. So even we give evidences from these powerful śāstras, not only that, prakhyāta-daiva-paramārtha-vidāṁ mattaiś ca, with the opinion of great stalwarts like prakhyāta, very famous. Who is that? Just like Vyāsadeva. Who can be more famous than Vyāsadeva? He's the compiler of all Vedic literatures in the world, Vyāsadeva. And Nārada, he's greatest ṛṣi, sage. Asita, Devala—there are many. Vasiṣṭha. There are many stalwarts. And especially these twelve person, just like Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Manu, Kapila, Mahārāja Prahlāda, Bhīṣma. There are authorities. So even their evidences in the authorized scriptures, even they are accepted by great stalwarts and sages and munis, still, the asura prakṛti, those who are atheistic persons, they'll never accept. They'll never accept. They'll simply go on arguing. The process is that if... Vedic process is if something is mentioned in the Vedas, and it is accepted by the previous ācāryas, then it is accepted. I have nothing to bother. That's all. This is the proce..., the simple process. Suppose I am a fool number one. That doesn't matter. I may be fool, but if I follow the previous authorized ācāryas, then I am all right. Just like a child, he may be a child, innocent child, but if he catches the hand of his father, then he's all right. He can walk. He can cross the street. This is the Vedic process. Vedic process, research, oh, there is no research in Vedic process. What research, nonsense, you'll do? What sense you have got? You shall research about God? The frog philosophy? There is no research. Research, that is not accepted in Vedic philosophy. You have to accept the authority. That's all.

General Lectures

If somebody is transferred to that planet which is called Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, or Vaikuṇṭha, then one hasn't got to come back to this material, I mean to say, temporary existence. So these informations are there, and they are very scientific. They are not dogmatic. If you accept them with reason and argument and with human consciousness, the solutions are there.
Lecture to Technology Students (M.I.T.) -- Boston, May 5, 1968:

If you want to enter into another planet, say moon planet or sun planet or Venus planet... There are innumerable planets. The ultimate, highest planet is called Brahmaloka. And the advantage of going to Brahmaloka is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that you can get a life, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). You can get there life for millions and millions of years. But still, there is death and there is birth and there is that old age and there is that disease. But mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. But if somebody is transferred to that planet which is called Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, or Vaikuṇṭha, then one hasn't got to come back to this material, I mean to say, temporary existence. So these informations are there, and they are very scientific. They are not dogmatic. If you accept them with reason and argument and with human consciousness, the solutions are there.

So my special request in this meeting is for the Indian ladies and gentlemen to support this temple, and by supporting this temple, to support this movement. It is good not only for the Indians—for everyone. It is no sectarian religion. It is completely scientific and philosophical. Everyone can accept it, not dogmatically, but with reason and argument.
Speech to Indian Audience -- Montreal, July 28, 1968:

So this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, supported by the movement of Lord Caitanya, chanting the holy name of Hare Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to push on in this part of the world, in pursuance of the order of Lord Caitanya, that pṛthivīte ache yata nagaradi grāma. So I'll request Indian ladies and gentlemen who are present here to join this movement. This is your duty. Because you are Indian, you have got this duty. If you forget your duty, then you are forgetting your identity. So my special request in this meeting is for the Indian ladies and gentlemen to support this temple, and by supporting this temple, to support this movement. It is good not only for the Indians—for everyone. It is no sectarian religion. It is completely scientific and philosophical. Everyone can accept it, not dogmatically, but with reason and argument. And you can practically see that all my students, none of them are Indians. Until now, they are all American. They are educated, they are intelligent. They are trying to understand it with all logic and philosophy, and when they understand it nicely, they take to it very seriously. So my request is that this is a very nice movement. Everyone, either Indian, American or Canadian, should take part in it and encourage us.

Simply by argument and reasoning, you cannot make any spiritual advancement. Because you may be very good, I mean to way, logician, putting forward nice arguments, but somebody may come who is better than you. He will spoil all your logic, and he will establish his own logic. That is nyāya-śāstra.
Pandal Lecture at Cross Maidan -- Bombay, March 26, 1971:

Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava: "Advancement of material science is increasing the illusion of māyā." We are already illusioned, and if we go on increasing the illusion more and more, then we become more and more entangled. That is the nature. And so long we are illusioned, we shall put forward different theories, different philosophies, and different arguments. Therefore śāstra says, tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Simply by argument and reasoning, you cannot make any spiritual advancement. Because you may be very good, I mean to way, logician, putting forward nice arguments, but somebody may come who is better than you. He will spoil all your logic, and he will establish his own logic. That is nyāya-śāstra. In Sanskrit there is nyāya-śāstra. So they are taught how to defeat his opponent. Therefore the Absolute Truth you cannot understand by argument, by material dealings.

Philosophy Discussions

This, then the argument comes. If he does not believe in anyone's statement, why he is thinking his statement will be accepted? Then he is foolish. He is a child. Instead of becoming a philosopher, he is a child, talking all nonsense.
Philosophy Discussion on David Hume:

Hayagrīva: As far as we can ascertain, Hume personally had no religion, no faith in the Christian or any other God. He also rejected that argument or reason could justify a faith. Thus Hume is a complete skeptic who denies the possibility of ascertaining certainty outside of a mere sequence of perceptions or ideas.

Prabhupāda: This, then the argument comes. If he does not believe in anyone's statement, why he is thinking his statement will be accepted? Then he is foolish. He is a child. Instead of becoming a philosopher, he is a child, talking all nonsense.

Sarva-yoniṣu, all different forms of life, there is soul, part and parcel of God. How some foolish person can think of animal has no soul? What is the reason? There is no very strong argument. The animals may be less intelligent. A child may be less intelligent than the father; that does not mean there is no soul.
Philosophy Discussion on Plotinus:

Hayagrīva: He believed that the soul is eternal and incorporeal in men, animals, and even in plants, and in this he differed from other philosophers of the time.

Prabhupāda: What... In which way differs? Because he accepts...

Hayagrīva: Accepted in..., the soul living in animals and also in plants.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fact. He is right. That is Vedic conclusion. Sarva-yoniṣu, all different forms of life, there is soul, part and parcel of God. How some foolish person can think of animal has no soul? What is the reason? There is no very strong argument. The animals may be less intelligent. A child may be less intelligent than the father; that does not mean there is no soul. This gross and doggish mentality, animal mentality, is killing the human civilization. Now they have degraded so much that they think that the embryo has no soul. In this way man is being put into darker and darkest region of ignorance. Everyone has soul. That is real. We get it from Kṛṣṇa: sarva-yoniṣu. In different forms of life the soul is there, undoubtedly. That is real conception of soul. Evolution means he is evolving from one lower grade of body to another, higher grade of body, and in this way by evolution he comes to the human form of life. And in this human form of life he can understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā, that if he likes, he can surrender to the Supreme Lord and go back to home, back to Godhead, and if he does not, then he remains in this material world, undergoing the tribulations of the repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. Corporal body.

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument.
Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Now, people are generally inclined to execute religious principles to make economic development. Just like in your Christian religion they go to church and pray, "Oh God, give us our daily bread." That is mainly economic development. Not only here. In India also the temple go, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, please keep my family well," or this or that. Economic problem. Generally, people, they become religionist... Therefore modern politicians, they say, "Why should you..." Just like the Russians. They say, "Why should you go to church for begging, 'Give us our daily...' oh, you come to us. We shall give you sufficient bread." The Bolshevists, they make propaganda like this. They go to village to village and ask the village men, "Oh, you pray to your church, pray, 'O God, give us our daily bread,' So have you got your bread?" "No, sir." "All right. Pray to us." They have taken a truck full of bread and... "Take bread. Take bread. As much as you like." "So whom do you like?" Oh, they will naturally say, "I like you." (laughter) Because they are not intelligent enough to answer, "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread, from your father's house?" (Laughter) Can you manufacture the bread in the factory, rascal? It is God's bread. But they have no intelligence. They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal. So that... Bhāgavata says that for economic solution... religion is not meant for economic solution. Economic solution is there, either you be religious or not religious. In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there. There is fruit, there is flower. So either you be religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. Your economic problem is settled already. Just like in the prisonhouse, they are all criminals. That does not mean they will starve to death. The government has all arrangement to feed them. Similarly, although this material world is prisonhouse, all criminals are here, revolt, to a person are here, those who do not care for God. But still, their fooding problem, their lodging problem is there by arrangement of God. Everything is there.

If one man understands perfectly what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, he can do tremendous benefit to the other people. So you are all intelligent boys and girls. You try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with all your reason or argument. But try to understand it seriously. Don't make it a farce.
Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: I told you that I do not expect that everyone will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. But if there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient to eradicate the darkness. You don't require many stars. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If one man understands perfectly what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, he can do tremendous benefit to the other people. So you are all intelligent boys and girls. You try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with all your reason or argument. But try to understand it seriously. Don't make it a farce. That is the object of life.

We should follow the footprints of great authorities. That is our business. The Vedic mantra says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you simply try to argue and try to approach the Absolute, it is very difficult, simply by argument and reasoning, because our arguments and reason are limited because our senses are imperfect.
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: If all mantras are... All mantras just the name of God. Whether it's a secret mantra or an open mantra, it's all the name of God. So it doesn't really make much difference, does it, which one you sing?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like in drug shop they sell all medicine for disease, curing disease. But still, you have to take doctor's prescription to take a particular type of medicine. They will not supply you. If you go to a drug shop and you say, "I am diseased. You give me any medicine," that is not... He'll ask you, "Where is your prescription?" So similarly, in this age, in Kali-yuga age, this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is recommended in the śāstras, and great stalwart—we consider Him the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He preached this. Therefore our principle is everyone should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We should follow the footprints of great authorities. That is our business. The Vedic mantra says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you simply try to argue and try to approach the Absolute, it is very difficult, simply by argument and reasoning, because our arguments and reason are limited because our senses are imperfect. (break)

That is our aim, to come to the highest platform of loving exchange, but generally, we are dealing with the mass of people. Therefore our propaganda should be how to, by reasoning, by philosophy, by science, by argument, how to convince him that he is in illusory stage.
Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: When one is completely merged in the ocean of love of Godhead, he will relish in any condition of life Kṛṣṇa, present. Kṛṣṇa present means, Kṛṣṇa present, His name present, His form present, His līlā present, His paraphernalia present. Everything. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. We are not impersonalist. As soon as we say, "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means with His name, fame, opulence, entourage, pastime, etc. So Back to Godhead generally deals in two stages of understanding, the, to awaken the relationship and to train them. Although our aim is... That is our aim, to come to the highest platform of loving exchange, but generally, we are dealing with the mass of people. Therefore our propaganda should be how to, by reasoning, by philosophy, by science, by argument, how to convince him that he is in illusory stage. These politicians, these scientists, these philosophers, they have no advanced knowledge except the human being. That's all. Their ultimate goal is that if they can do something, humanitarian work, welfare work to the... The Vivekananda, or the Aurobindo, or this, what is called, the Russell, or Romain Roland, and so many, they are coming. And the yogis, they are trying to be self-satisfied by meditation. But nobody is concerned with God, or Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is concerned. This is the position of the world. So under the circumstances, our first business is how to awaken people from this illusory condition, that he is thinking, "I am this body," or the most well-being is taking care of this body or bodily relationships. So we have to take out from that illusory condition. So that should be the policy of our Back to Godhead. And the, so far the editors are concerned, they are supposed to know all these conclusions. Now we have got two editors, Hayagrīva and Satsvarūpa. I believe both of you know the conclusion which I am trying to push on within this movement. So you should work cooperatively in such a way that you don't deviate from the policy, and conjointly, consulting together, so that I may be relieved from petty minor things. But if there is some difficulty, I am at your service. Now what is the difficulty at the present moment? (break)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

No, logic means argument, reasoning. Our logic is because Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all great persons, authorities, we accept. Our logic is simple.
Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): I'm not arguing for Divine Light or anything. I'm just trying to...

Revatīnandana: No, just take it philosophically. Can a person come from a void? Void means zero. But a person is not zero. He has so many personal qualities.

Student (1): I mean, if you stick to strict logic, you can't, no, right. I mean this isn't logical, is it?

Revatīnandana: Sometimes by logic you can find out what is false. What is truth, that we get from authority.

Student (1): You say it is logic because, say, everything in that book fits in with everything else, maybe. So it's a total form of logic in itself.

Student (3): Your logic starts from the assumption that the book is correct.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are arguing? That is logic. Why you are arguing? Why don't you accept what I say? Why you are arguing? That is logic.

Student (3): Because so many people say different things which conflict.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are taking the shelter of logic. You are taking the shelter.

Student (1): Logic... Logic is arguing, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, logic means argument, reasoning. Our logic is because Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all great persons, authorities, we accept. Our logic is simple.

Student (1): But Christians might say the same thing. They might say, "Look at the Bible, This is our logic."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. They accept God; we accept God. The only difference is they do not know who is God, but we know who is God.

Student (1): No, they know who is God.

Prabhupāda: No.

Revatīnandana: You won't get any good information about God. "God is great. God created"—finished. That's not very much information. God's son? A little more information about God's son.

Student (1): But you've got no more right to say you know who is God than they have.

Revatīnandana: Oh, well, we have a lot more information about God, you see.

No, then you come to argument, reason, then whether Darwin is authority or Kṛṣṇa is authority, we have to decide.
Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: But at least we are accepting some authority which is supposedly very authorized by great saints, sages...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: They have also great authorities.

Prabhupāda: And all the authorities... No, therefore these persons who do not accept authority, they're rascal.

Karandhara: They are accepting authorities.

Prabhupāda: But they're accepting authority who is not authority.

Devotee: They're fools.

Devotee (4): Darwin, they're accepting Darwin as authority.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: They say, "But why should we accept any one of your authorities?"

Prabhupāda: No, then you come to argument, reason, then whether Darwin is authority or Kṛṣṇa is authority, we have to decide.

Devotee: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: They accept like, "I have not seen President Nixon, but I accept because I read in the newspaper." So somebody says that, well, by following this bhakti you can see Kṛṣṇa, but they will not accept that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

It is never recommended to take it blindly. Karaha vicāra: "Just judge with reason and argument." And vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra: "If you consider it with logic and judgement, then you'll find it is sublime."
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says that's very good that so many stayed to find out more information, to ask, to discuss.

Prabhupāda: Yes, any reasonable man will find subject matter interesting. There is a statement of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra: (CC Adi 8.15) "Just consider and then give your judgement after studying the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu." It is never recommended to take it blindly. Karaha vicāra: "Just judge with reason and argument." And vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra: "If you consider it with logic and judgement, then you'll find it is sublime." (French)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Yes. This is argument. When you do not accept authority, there must be reason and argument.
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all you settle up. Don't go away from the point. (laughter) The point is that there is no need of authority. Then why you quote this scientist, that scientist? You stop this nonsense. There is no authority. Hm?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Haṁsadūta?

Haṁsadūta: Hm.

Prabhupāda: If there is no authority, why do you quote so many rascals? Then come to reason, argument, that's all. If you quote authority, I have got my authority.

Harikeśa: So this fire... That makes sense.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: This fire, it makes sense. That there's life in fire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is argument. When you do not accept authority, there must be reason and argument.

Harikeśa: But this ether thing is very troublesome.

Prabhupāda: Troublesome for you! (laughter)

Harikeśa: Yes. You said sound is in the ether.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: But I couldn't understand how air...

Prabhupāda: You have to gain that intelligence.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. He has no doubt. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahājano yena gataḥ, all the mahājanas.
Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: So what is the exact meaning of that verse, śraddhā-śabde. That verse...

Prabhupāda: Yes, śraddhā. That faith increase, and when it is increased so much that he fully understands, "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is done," that is first-class faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya (Cc. Madhya 22.62). If he becomes fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is first-class, means fulfillment of faith. In the beginning it might be doubtful, neophyte. But when that is, that faith is fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is the fulfillment of faith. Faith also there are different stages, improvement. Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), oh, that is final. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says, 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done. That means yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. He has no doubt. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahājano yena gataḥ, all the mahājanas.

And if we don't believe that they have gone to moon planet, they will reject us. They will immediately take as "Oh, these people are crazy." Even if you give sufficient reason or argument, they will not take it. That is their obstinacy.
Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (break) And if we don't believe that they have gone to moon planet, they will reject us. They will immediately take as "Oh, these people are crazy." Even if you give sufficient reason or argument, they will not take it. That is their obstinacy.

Correspondence

1967 Correspondence

The nonsense theory of oneness becomes null and void by the evidence presented in this incident. But we should not be angry with these poor souls. Try to convince them by argument and reason but do not become angry with them.
Letter to Rayarama -- Calcutta 9 November, 1967:

The separation of Kirtanananda and Hayagriva is not a very happy incident. I was practically in tears for their attitude of separation on such flimsy grounds. In other words it is my incapability that I could not save these two souls, but this a great evidence that every soul is individual. The nonsense theory of oneness becomes null and void by the evidence presented in this incident. But we should not be angry with these poor souls. Try to convince them by argument and reason but do not become angry with them. Lord Nityananda when he was dealing with Jagai and Madhai maintained the maximum amount of tolerance and patience in spite of the greatest provocation. The two brothers, Jagai and Madhai, committee. violence on Lord Nityananda. Even Lord Caitanya, the author of Siksastak, became agitated. But Lord Nityananda Prabhu in the matter remained calm and quiet and delivered the two rascals to the highest elevation. We should always try to represent Lord Nityananda Prabhu in the matter of preaching work.

1968 Correspondence

Only the householders are allowed sex life. That is also restricted. That means sex life is condemned throughout because that is the cause of material bondage. Feeling of sex life in young boys and girls is quite natural, but one has to check such sex life by reason, argument, and knowledge.
Letter to Brahmananda -- Los Angeles 21 January, 1968:

I am in due receipt of your letter dated 1/15/68. And I have noted the contents, especially the activities of Maya, carefully. Krishna Consciousness movement is actually declaration of war against Maya. The conditioned souls who wanted to enjoy this material world are captivated by the sex desires. If one wants to get out of this material existence, he must control sex desire. The whole scheme of Vedic civilization is based on this principle of controlling sex desire. There were 4 orders of life; Brahmacari, Grhastha, Vanaprastha, and Sannyasa. The majority of the orders namely Brahmacari, Vanaprastha, and Sannyasa are forbidden sex life. Only the householders are allowed sex life. That is also restricted. That means sex life is condemned throughout because that is the cause of material bondage. Feeling of sex life in young boys and girls is quite natural, but one has to check such sex life by reason, argument, and knowledge. The married boys and girls are there—in our society sex life is not forbidden. If Jagatananda is feeling sex urge so urgently even at the age of 16 or 17, he must be prepared to take the responsibility of married life. When I was in India, Gargamuni wrote me plainly like that, and I at once allowed him to get married. Now I see that the boy and girl, Gargamuni and Karunamayi, are living happily. So if Jagatananda is after that nice girl Lilasukha, he must arrange for marrying her. Otherwise where is the solution? I cannot allow in our society any nonsense like illicit sex life at any circumstance. Jagatananda must subdue his sex desire by constant chanting of Hare Krishna, and praying to Krishna to help him. If not he must be prepared to marry and take the responsibility fully. As his elder brother you will please instruct him of my desire.

1973 Correspondence

If they do not believe in Ramayana and Mahabharata, then we shall reply point to point by argument and reason. Of course, it is not possible to come to the right conclusion simply by argument and reason, tarkanratishtanat.
Letter to Niranjana -- Brooklyn 21 May, 1973:

So, if they do not believe in Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhagavad-gita, then they are called unbelievers, so how can you believe their words. Then we come to the platform of reason and argument. If they do not believe in Ramayana and Mahabharata, then we shall reply point to point by argument and reason. Of course, it is not possible to come to the right conclusion simply by argument and reason, tarkanratishtanat.

Page Title:Reason and argument
Compiler:Labangalatika, MadhuGopaldas
Created:07 of May, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=4, CC=6, OB=0, Lec=22, Con=10, Let=3
No. of Quotes:45