Prabhupāda: So, you are family man?
Reporter: Yes, this is my wife.
Prabhupāda: You're married here.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Children?
Reporter: One child.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Reporter: And we have called our child Mukti.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. (everyone laughs) But another thing, (everyone laughs). Rūpa Gosvāmī says bhukti-mukti-spṛhā yāvat piśācī hṛdi vartate. Manifested..., that so long the piśācī... Piśācī, you know?
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: The piśācī of bhukti and mukti. Bhukti means karmī's business, "I shall enjoy."
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Bhukti. And mukti means "I shall become one with the Supreme." So these two things are described as piśācī.
Reporter: Really?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: Ah, piśācī means witch.
Prabhupāda: Bhukti-mukti-piśācī (etc.)
Reporter: "As long as...?"
Prabhupāda: "So long these two piśācīs are there within the heart, how one can enjoy the company of bhakti?"
Reporter: Ah? But if you are one with the perfect one, you cannot be one with the perfect one without bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: Therefore, bhukti and mukti do not come together. From bhukti you have to go to bhakti and then you can...
Prabhupāda: You have to go to mukti, and then bhakti. Just as I explained.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Reporter: Ah.
Prabhupāda: So after being mukta. The bhakta is already mukta. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
So a bhakta is already brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). So he hasn't got to ask for mukti. He's already mukta. Just like Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura says,
- bhaktis tvayi sthiratarā bhagavan yadi syād
- daivena naḥ phalati divya-kiśora-mūrtiḥ
- muktiḥ svayaṁ mukulitāñjali sevate 'smān
- and dharmārtha-kāma-gatayaḥ samaya-pratīkṣāḥ
Dharmārtha-kāma, this is karmī's position. And mokṣa is mukti's position. So he says that "If I've got unflinching devotional attitude upon You, My Lord, then mukti is at my door, with folded hands. And this this dharmārtha-kāma, they're at my command." Simply by bhakti. The people are after dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), but these four things become at the order of a bhakta. Muktiḥ svayaṁ mukulitāñjali sevate 'smān dharmārtha-kāma-gatayaḥ samaya-pratīkṣāḥ.
Devotee: Prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. (Guest and devotees talk in background.)
Reporter: (aside:) Please... But calling kṛṣṇārpaṇam, and calling mukti and bhukti piśācī is a rather strong expression. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand what is the bhakta's position. They can use strong word against mukti.
Reporter: Yes, yes, they can.
Prabhupāda: (laughs)
Reporter: The attachment is mukti, materialistic attachment, and bhukti... (break)