Pure devotional service (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"pure devotional service"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Nitāi:

brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me. Purport."

Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?

Nitāi: To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.

In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, and this stage is attained very easily by the pure devotee. In that stage of existence, the idea of becoming one with the Supreme Brahman and annihilating one's individuality becomes hellish, and the idea of attaining the heavenly kingdom becomes phantasmagoria, and the senses are like broken serpents' teeth. As there is no fear of a serpent with broken teeth, so there is no fear from the senses when they are automatically controlled. The world is miserable for the materially infected person, but for a devotee the entire world is as good as Vaikuṇṭha, or the spiritual sky. The highest personality in this material universe is no more significant than an ant for a devotee. Such a stage can be achieved by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, who preached pure devotional service in this age.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga." "So, how long can you remain? At night?" "Yes. No, I can remain the whole night or as long as you..." "All right, if you remain within severe cold, within water, overnight, then I shall give you such and such presentation." So he agreed, and he did it. And in the morning, when the man came, so he said, "Oh, you are successful." Then he did not... Either he had no money or he did not want to give. So he had his one advisor, "So what shall I do?" "No, no sir, you cannot give money." "Why?" "Now, there was heat." "So how there was heat?" You know, in India they give ākāśa-pradīpa? During Kārttika month they... This is our Vaiṣṇava principle, I think. The lamp is there on the head of the roof. On the roof there is a bamboo, and in the top of the bamboo there is light. So this man was in the lake. And his advisor said, "You have seen that the lamp was there, and heat was coming." (laughing) That lamp was three miles away and still, he advised, "Yes, there was heat. Therefore he could tolerate." So what can be said? He is poor man. So there was another servant of that big man. So he appealed to him that "See, I took so much trouble and he did not pay me anything." "So don't worry. I shall see that you are paid." What is that? Some presentation?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees ask if they can take birth again distributing books for you.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That is real devotion. A devotee does not want to go to Vaikuṇṭha or any liberation. They are satisfied with the service. That is pure devotion. And distributing books for the benefit of going to Kṛṣṇa, that is selfishness. But "I want to simply distribute the books without any remuneration, without any my personal..." that is pure devotee. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "I do not wish to go to Vaikuṇṭha unless I take all of these rascals with me." That is pure devotee. Pure devotion does not mean to... He is always under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. What is the use of going Vaikuṇṭha or...? Wherever he stays, that is Vaikuṇṭha. That is pure devotional service. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "Life after life I may go on with this business. I don't want anything." That is pure devotion. (About cake:) So distribute.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param

(BG 18.54)

"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me."

Prabhupāda: That means one has to come to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Then he can enter into devotional service. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). In that brāhminical state he sees every living entity as part and parcel of God. That is samaḥ, equality. He does not see like this, that the human being has soul and the cow has not soul. He does not see like that. He sees the cow has soul, the ant has soul, the elephant has soul, the tree has soul, the human being has soul. That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. By ignorance he thinks that "The tree has no soul; the cow has no soul; the animal has no soul; simply we have got soul." That is ignorance, base quality. But when you come to the pureness of goodness, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, this qualification will arise. So a devotee is not willing to kill even an ant because he knows that "He is also soul, part and parcel. By his karma, he has become ant, I have become a human being. So I am the same soul; he is the same soul. He is different body. He is suffering in that way. I have got different body. I am also suffering, but I am thinking I am enjoying." That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. What is the meaning, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu?

Jayatīrtha: Samaḥ means equally disposed; sarveṣu means all; bhūteṣu means living entity. "He is equally disposed to every living entity."

Prabhupāda: So we can see on equal level when (sic:) you become a brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, not in the United Nation, passing resolution and fight is going on outside, because they have no vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. So the politicians should be guided by the brāhmaṇas. That is social structure. Those who are first-class men in the spiritual understanding... Or the politicians, the administrators, they should take instruction from the brāhmaṇas and take part in politics. Then they will be also first-class men. You haven't got to drag him down again. First of all elect, and drag him down. This is mistake. Just like you elected Nixon president; again you dragged him down, because there was mistake. You do not know who to elect because you are not guided by brāhmaṇas. This is the fault. The whole society is being guided by the mle..., śūdras and some portion vaiśyas. Mostly śūdras and some certain percentage, mercantile. And no kṣatriya, no brāhmaṇa. Therefore, for the peaceful life in human society, there must be four divisions. Find out this verse, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana:

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

jagad avyakta-mūrtinā

mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

(BG 9.4)

Translation: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

Purport: The Supreme Personality of Godhead is not perceivable through the gross material senses. It is said that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's name, fame, pastimes, etc., cannot be understood by material senses. Only to one who is engaged in pure devotional service under proper guidance is He revealed. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, premāñjanacchurita.... One can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, always within himself and outside himself if he has developed the transcendental loving attitude towards Him. Thus for people in general He is not visible. Here it is said that although He is all-pervading, everywhere present, He is yet not conceivable by the material senses. But actually, although we cannot see Him, everything is resting in Him. As we have discussed in the Seventh Chapter, the entire material cosmic manifestation is only a combination of His two different energies, the superior spiritual energy and the inferior material energy. Just as the sunshine is spread all over the universe, the energy of the Lord is spread all over the creation, and everything is resting in that energy.

Yet one should not conclude that because He is spread all over He has lost His personal existence. To refute such argument the Lord says, "I am everywhere, and everything is in Me, but still I am aloof." For example, a king heads a government which is but the manifestation of the king's energy; the different governmental departments are nothing but the energies of the king, and each department is resting on the king's power. But still one cannot expect the king to be present in every department personally. That is a crude example. Similarly, all the manifestations that we see, and everything that exists both in this material world and in the spiritual world, are resting on the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The creation takes place by the diffusion of His different energies, and, as is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, He is everywhere present by His personal representation, the diffusion of His different energies.

Prabhupāda:Kṛṣṇa says that "I am present everywhere by My energy. But personally I may not be here, in here." But ultimately there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's energy and Kṛṣṇa. Wherever there is energy... Just like electricity. Everywhere there is. If you are expert you can generate electricity from anywhere.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Brahmānanda: We have already discussed that pure devotional service to the Lord is automatically followed by perfect knowledge and detachment from material existence. But there are others who consider that all kinds of different occupational engagements, including those of religion, are meant for material gain. The general tendency of any ordinary man in any part of the world is to gain some material profit in exchange for religious or any other occupational service. Even in the Vedic literatures, for all sorts of religious performances an allurement of material gain is offered, and most people are attracted by such allurements or blessings of religiosity. Why are such so-called men of religion allured by material gain? Because material gain can enable one to fulfill desires, which in turn satisfy sense gratification. This cycle of occupational engagements includes so-called religiosity followed by material gain and material gain followed by fulfillment of desires. Sense gratification is the general way for all sorts of fully occupied men. But in the statement of Sūta Gosvāmī, as per the verdict of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this is nullified by the present śloka.

One should not engage himself in any sort of occupational service for material gain only. Nor should material gain be utilized for sense gratification. How material gain should be utilized is described as follows.

Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of...

Prof. Hopkins: Do you... Do you think then that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey?

Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a verse in the Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda. Yenātmā suprasīdati: "By rendering devotional service to the transcendental Lord, one becomes completely satisfied." So what happens? These people in material life, they come to the temples and they chant a little bit. But they find that the standard of pure devotional service is so high that they're not able to grasp it. They don't feel the complete satisfaction. They're still attached to the material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is compared with the jaundice disease. Jaundice disease, for jaundice, sugarcane is the medicine. But they taste sugarcane as bitter. Sugarcane... One who is suffering in jaundice will taste sugarcane as bitter. That is the test. So that is the medicine. So he has to take the sugarcane. And by taking, when he is cured he will find, "Oh, it is very sweet."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then he has to recognize there is some problem living in this material world.

Prabhupāda: No. He does not find any happiness on account of his too much materialistic mind.

Brahmānanda: That is the disease.

Prabhupāda: That is the disease. So it has to be cured by this bhakti-yoga. So in the bhakti-yoga, in the beginning, it will taste bitter. Therefore they do not come. But if they take to bhakti-yoga, then the material disease will be cured and they will find it is very sweet.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Bhāgavata: ... explaining to them the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in pure devotional service so that they may go back to home, back to Godhead and become liberated from the realms of birth and death in this material world.

Prabhupāda: Is that alright? What he's saying. So, how to help them?

Devotee: First we give them the chanting, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: First we give them the mah-mantra.

Prabhupāda: Mah-mantra, one may not accept.

Bhāgavata: We have to find the ways and the means by which we can make pure devotional service attractive to each living entity according to his...

Prabhupāda: Unless one feels necessity, why they will accept your proposal to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? How you'll make them think "Yes, it is necessity." That is wanted. Otherwise anyone will say, some proposition, "You do this." Then why they will accept it?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Makhanlāl: There are many different levels of pure devotional service?

Prabhupāda: Pure devotional service is one. So long you are not on the pure platform, there are many. (break)

Makhanlāl: ...between the neophyte devotee who is following the principles.

Prabhupāda: Neophyte devotee is not on the topmost platform. He's learning. (loud foghorn blowing in background)

Makhanlāl: So a neophyte devotee who's following the principles of sādhana-bhakti is still considered pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Makhanlāl: So at different levels of advancement of pure devotional service.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda once gave the example of a mango, that when the mango is raw, it's still a mango. Then it becomes ripe—also a mango. So pure devotional service is different when we begin.

Prabhupāda: So raw condition and ripe condition is not the same. The mango is the same.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: "One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me."

Prabhupāda: Equally disposed. As soon as he knows that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then there is no distinction. Just like two American goes to India. So when they understand that "We are Americans," immediately their interest becomes one, although they are in the foreign country. That is psychology. Similarly, as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction as black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Everything finished. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. You are reading the purport?

Jayādvaita: Purport: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta, oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinctions is there, in a higher spiritual sense. In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service to the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him, stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta stage, and this stage is attained very easily..."

Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: "These four items are by far inferior to engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. Śrī Vyāsadeva as the authorized scholar knew very well this difference, and still, instead of giving more importance to the better type of engagement, namely the devotional service of the Lord, he had more or less improperly used his valuable time, and thus he was despondent. From this it is clearly indicated that no one can be pleased substantially without being engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact is clearly mentioned. After liberation, which is the last item in the line of performing religiosity, etc., one is engaged in pure devotional service. This is called the stage of self-realization or brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. After attainment of this brahma-bhūta stage one is satisfied, but satisfaction is the beginning of transcendental bliss. One should progress by attaining neutrality and equality in the relative world. In passing this stage of equanimity, one is fixed up in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. This is the instruction of the Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that in order to maintain the status quo of the brahma-bhūta stage, as also to increase the degree of transcendental realization, it is recommended by Nārada to Vyāsadeva that he, Vyāsadeva, should now eagerly and repeatedly describe the path of devotional service. This would cure him from gross despondency."

na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo

jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit

tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā

na yatra haṁsā niramanty uśikkṣayāḥ

(SB 1.5.10)

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows."

Prabhupāda: Just like the modern newspaper. Huge bundle of newspaper every morning, huh? So it is, as it is said here, the place of enjoyment for the crows. What is that?

Pradyumna: Vāyasaṁ tīrtham.

Prabhupāda: Vāyasaṁ means crows. The crows, they take pleasure in a place where all rubbish and refuses are thrown. They take pleasure. So what is this newspaper? All rubbish things, they are collected together. Nobody likes it to read. They just glance over for a few minutes, and then it is thrown away, rubbish. And even it is thrown, nobody touches. So they are spending huge, so many newspapers. Each newspaper several editions in a day, huge establishment, but there is no substance of life. That is being described. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Harikeśa:

utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt

tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt

saṅga-tyagāt sato vṛtteḥ

ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati

(Upadeśāmṛta 3)

"There are six principles favorable to the execution of pure devotional service: (1) being enthusiastic, (2) endeavoring with confidence, (3) being patient, (4) acting according to regulative principles (such as śravanaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ smaranam (SB 7.5.23)—hearing, chanting and remembering Kṛṣṇa), (5) abandoning the association of nondevotees, and (6) following in the footsteps of the previous acaryas. These six principles undoubtedly assure the complete success of pure devotional service."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there.

Mike Robinson: And you are sure this is the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.