Psychiatrist (Conv., 1976 - 1977 and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"psychiatric" |"psychiatrist" |"psychiatrist's" |"psychiatrists" |"psychiatry"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: But the.... Certain psychologists are very, very interested in trying to put a person under hypnosis, and then he can talk about experiences he has had in his past lives. They are very eager to have a person under a certain condition where he will remember experiences from his past life.

Prabhupāda: So why the psychiatrist does not remember? Why he does not remember?

Rāmeśvara: They say that only certain people have the ability to remember.

Prabhupāda: Certain rascals.

Candanācārya: They hypnotize them, and they say, "Remember your last life."

Prabhupāda: And whatever nonsense he says, it is all right.

Candanācārya: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: "But such tactics are a gross violation of fundamental human and constitutional rights are to go without saying. In cases where victims have instigated charges of kidnapping against parents and deprogrammers, grand juries have thus far refused to issue indictments apparently because the work is done at the behest of parents or other relatives and ostensibly for the good of the victim. The situation which has prompted me to communicate with members of the professional psychiatric community involves sweeping implications of a very important legal case which will be going to trial sometime in the late winter or early spring. Some background of the case may be helpful here." Then he explains about the case. Anyway, it's very nicely written. And he's mostly trying to expose that the psychiatrists have to take an objective standpoint. Otherwise, there are some psychiatrists who are atheistic and they are contending that any religious experience or so-called religious consciousness is a...

Prabhupāda: Artificial dependence.

Jagadīśa: ...artificial dependence, yeah. So this is...

Prabhupāda: They say that there is a tissue in the brain, they disturb with this religious idea. They say like that. And if that tissue is operated then there will be no more religion. They can do that. With a brain operation he'll forget willfully. These rascal, so-called scientists, they can do anything.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: There are some psychiatrists who are on our side though. So if we can rally their support... The whole thing is so emotional and based on this strong appeal by the scientists and leaders to avoid religion because of the distraction from sense gratification, that all of the charges against us are completely baseless. There's no foundation. And if we just carefully and with calculation expose all of their nonsense accusations, it will be a great victory. Especially now it has become such a national issue that the leaders of society have to become involved, otherwise they'll become implicated. They have to come out and say whether they support the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: But they're supporting.

Jagadīśa: They must support it. Actually, I'm sure that they're astonished to find out how intelligent all the devotees are. The devotees are the most intelligent people.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we are counter... We are fighting them. "...by writing to the District Attorney's"—those are the Justice Department Offices—"or contacting your local media." Then they give the addresses of people in New York and two addresses in Los Angeles who you should write to telling them about all the knowledge you have about all the abuses of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it says, "You should commence action for a legal deprogramming. If other families of Hare Kṛṣṇa victims would go to court to get a legal conservatorship or guardianship with an intended writ of habeas corpus..." Now, what this means is you go to the court, and you say "My dear judge, my son is in Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has been brainwashed." And you have a paper from a psychiatrist that says, "Yes, he is definitely acting in a robotlike way." Then the court will say, "All right, you're the parent. So we give you legal guardianship over the son."

Prabhupāda: No, we can place a counter psychiatrist and counter... Just like Cox's statement.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But we have got parents' organization also.

Rāmeśvara: Now we do. Anyway, they're using this law against us.

Prabhupāda: That they will do. They will do their best. We have to do our best. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "This would enable the court to remove the young person from the temple for medical examination and evaluation by cult-knowledgeable psychiatrists and psychologists." In other words, deprogramming. "This is the best thing to do. The media would report it..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. But one psyciatrist may give one verdict, but other psychiatrist may give another verdict. Then how the court will decide?

Rāmeśvara: Because in these temporary guardianship cases, the court is already against us in many places.

Prabhupāda: But... Against may be, but so far the decision of the psychiatrist, we can present our psychiatrist.

Rāmeśvara: There's no equal time given. It's one-sided only.

Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: So if I don't want to hear your philosophy, why are you imposing?

Prabhupāda: It is not imposing. It is good philosophy. We are canvassing, "Take it. You'll be benefited." And they are being benefited. Those who are reading, they are being benefited. Just like we are canvassing. We are Americans. You are not benefited. Therefore you are... Our Guru Mahārāja, Indian, he is not coming. We are doing, because we are benefited. We know we are benefited. Therefore it must be spread. That is our success. "Good thing must be given." Why you are advertising big, big order(?), "Please come and purchase Ford car," "Purchase Chevrolet car"? Yearly. Why you are canvassing?

Rāmeśvara: Because we think it is nice. To make money.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Why you are imposing your so-called goodness to others and spending so much money? Why you are doing?

Rāmeśvara: It is not physical. It is just mental.

Prabhupāda: Well, physical, mental... That's right. You are so intelligent that you make distinction between physical and mental. They're all manifestation(?). You are so intelligent. Without mental, is there any physical? Then why you engage psychologist? There may be physical madman. Why you take him at psychologist? Why? Now you're discriminating mental and physical. If mental has nothing to do with physical, then why you employ psychologist to cure a madman from physical violence? You are so fool. Without mental pain, there is no physical pain. Without mental derangement, there is no physical disturbance. Who commits suicide? Who commits murder unless he's mentally deranged? You are very intelligent, that you want to make differentiation between physical and mental. There is differentiation. But cure physically.(?) Naturally they'll become sound. Otherwise why so many psychologists, psychiatrists, are employed in your country?

Rāmeśvara: It is a booming business, big business.

Prabhupāda: Our business is sai vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). First of all is mentality. Man-manā mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. "Always think of Me." This is the cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Beginning: always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the treatment. It is proved. Mentally he'll be cured. And then physically after.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: Now these psychiatrists are doing that with our Hare Kṛṣṇa. They say, "When these people... They take to Hare Kṛṣṇa because of this, because of that, and when they chant this happens in their brain, and this is happening." They don't believe that it is anything transcendental.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They say that "There is a brain. There is a tissue. There is cerebrum. On account of, they are thinking spiritually. Otherwise if it is cut off, there will be no more opportunity." They'll do that, brain operation. And whatever nonsense they will do, we'll accept.

Gurukṛpā: They have electric.

Satsvarūpa: Electric shock.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous community. These scientists, the so-called, they are dangerous community. Now, if five ounce(?) sight(?) is there, "No, it should be operated. Then he will be cured." And actually it is happening. In the hospitals they make all kinds of experiment, and if you say, "No, why you are doing that? A patient is suffering," "We must execute our science. So long the life is there we shall try to save him." They say like that. They will go on with all nonsense activity, and if you want to stop them, they will say, "No, our science has got so..." They take in writing that "Whatever we shall do, you cannot object," hospital. It is a place of demons. And as soon as they get a patient who will not protest, they'll make it, they'll make it and operation. No medicine, simply operate.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: Well, the thing Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was saying was that they're bringing all these psychiatrists and psychologists in to make so many statements.

Prabhupāda: Let them bring. We have got our own psychiatrists.

Hari-śauri: He was saying in order to defeat them, we have to bring in other psychiatrists and psychologists.

Prabhupāda: The psychiatrists mean... Do you mean to say whatever they will say, we have to accept?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they're considered authorities.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.

Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.

Gurukṛpā: Yes.

Gargamuni: Yes, but how can a psychologist judge a religion? That's not his field. They have to bring in scholars whose field is religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then those who are supporting us, our books, they are also.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have many witnesses.

Prabhupāda: They are also madmen.

Hari-śauri: So many big professors.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Dr. Harvey Cox.

Prabhupāda: They have to be dismissed by the government from the post. "Why you are keeping so many madmen as big, big...?"

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Those who have supported us, then they're also madmen.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They must be fired immediately.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have brainwashed. They are brainwashed. So they should be dismissed.

Gargamuni: Even Jimmy Carter, he gave one "Thank you for this book."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: One man is our favor said, "If they are brainwashed, then all the people of the East..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They even write, the psychiatrists, that "These people are very dangerous." (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Bhāgavata: We are threatening their sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So go on with fighting.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So we have got very good certification by the psychiatrist of Calcutta University. You have seen it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think I've seen that yet.

Satsvarūpa: Dhīra Kṛṣṇa got a statement from the Brain Research Institute and said the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is very good for the brain.

Hari-śauri: Brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: You have got that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Actually it is brainwash, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), but it is for the good. People are suffering with these dirty things within the brain. We are washing them. That is brainwash actually.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The representative said that "Our government is nonsectarian, but within our country so many people are Hindus, and this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is the religion of all these people. This is the actual religion of these people. It is authentic."

Prabhupāda: Yes. How they can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they... They have no case at all.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They want to speak brainwash, and here is the university psychiatrist. He says, "No, it is not brainwash." So handle very carefully.

Brahmānanda: The judge that we have is very ...

Prabhupāda: Sober.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not. The superior thing they do not know. They are simply entangled in this material, inferior. Psychologist, psychiatrist. (sound of shenai) Now there is moon. Intelligence. Intelligence, I think, they take it as soul. Therefore they say that the animal has no soul.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: What I said was, when finally man comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaotic—there is no order—when he admits this to himself and he looks to find a way to purify his mind, will not the spiritual sādhana open up naturally?

Indian man (1): Without a guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's the point I'm making. I mean that's something within himself.

Prabhupāda: Without a guru? That is not possible.

Young man (4): Hm?

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Young man (4): It is not possible?

Prabhupāda: Just like if you are mad—the mind is not in order—you go to a physician to treat you. That is the way. If your mind is not in order, what do you do? You go to a psychiatrist, you go to an expert for treatment.

Young man (4): No, no, this is... No.

Prabhupāda: That is the way. If you do not go, then you'll become mad.

Young man (4): No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: What is that "No, no, no"? You said that your mind is in chaotic condition.

Young man (4): Yes?

Prabhupāda: So you have to treat it.

Young man (4): Yes, but not necessarily through a psychiatrist. I mean, it's a matter of admitting to oneself that there is an impurity...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian man (2): If I know that in my own mind my mind is chaotic...

Prabhupāda: Then if you know, then where is chaotic condition? This is nonsense.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Timothy Leary.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha. What is his position now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't heard about him in the last few years. He's in and out of jail, I think. I saw one time he was just getting out of jail. It just shows... I think he was a big professor at Harvard. So the idle mind, devil's workshop. So he used his big brain for making this LSD. That's the value of this Ph.D. degree.

Prabhupāda: He was Ph.D.?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Big personality. And because of the fact that he was an important member of the faculty at Harvard, so even though all he produced was an intoxicant, he gave it so much explanation, that "This is..."

Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this is transcendental. "This is real psychotherapy," he called it. He made it seem like this is legitimate, this is a bona fide experiment, just like you go to a psychologist or psychiatrist. He tried to explain it as a medical drug for helping the mind. But as a result of it so many people became crazy by using it.

Prabhupāda: Howling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you saw so many people who were taking it in America.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent. Therefore Devānanda presented it: "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is hippies' movement."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Devānanda. I remember at one initiation ceremony you asked... It was Kauśalyā. You said to her, "What are the four principles?" So she stated them. Then you said, "What is the fifth?" So she didn't know what to answer. Then you said, "No LSD."

Prabhupāda: This Kauśalyā girl was loitering in the street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Kauśalyā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kauśalyā. In Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No protection. Somehow or other, she came to see me when I got into Los Angeles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that way you saved all of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Brahmananda -- San Francisco 21 March, 1968:

By Grace of Krishna, Advaita is being transferred to Bellevue; now try to get him out with the help of the psychiatrist who helped to get out Kirtanananda. That will finalize the matter, but we must find out a way to take permission from the draft board that our institution is a recognized religious institution of Hindu Vedic origin, and we are training students for preaching God-consciousness, and building up their character by strict moral principles. Therefore, these students cannot be called for fighting. By temperament they are unfit for fighting, because they are being trained to become perfect Brahmins. The business of the Brahmins is to teach people spiritual education. Fighting is means for the Ksatriyas. Therefore, we must find out some means for protecting our students in future to save them from this unnecessary botheration. You should consult a suitable lawyer in connection with this matter, and do the needful. We can submit a copy of the remark made by a judge of a court here, in relation to the imprisonment of one of our students, Upendra das, in which the man said, "Be lenient with this boy, as he belongs to an established religious organization, which is doing much to combat against drug-addiction, and to promote the general health and welfare of the young people." (These are not the exact words, but we are presently awaiting a certified letter from the judge saying in essence, this statement.) And as minister of the association, I can give certificate that all my students are ecclesiastical. They are neither fighting men, nor mercantile people, so they cannot be called for fighting for unnecessary waste of time and valuable energy.

Letter to Brahmananda -- San Francisco 2 April, 1968:

I am glad to hear that the lawyer and psychiatrist are going to help with Advaita, and I am praying Krishna for his safety. We are awaiting to receive the judge's statement, and when we secure it, I shall send it to you.

Letter to Aniruddha -- Los Angeles 5 December, 1968:

So far as the lady psychiatrist making tests with our children, you should know that our children are fireproof and waterproof due to Krishna Consciousness so there is no harm for them. Let them test if they wish, we shall come out successful.

1972 Correspondence

Letter to Upendra -- Calcutta 19 February, 1972:

Psychiatrists are humbug, all humbug. They cannot help. Best thing is to be engaged in continuously chanting and hearing Sankirtana, that will cure anyone of mental disease.