Prabhupāda: Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmaṇas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brāhmaṇas and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ (CC Adi 17.164). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?
Prove (Conv. 1967 - 1973)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He conquered all over the world almost. He went to India also. So he met one robber. So he arrested, Alexander. He was king. The robber said, "Why you have arrested me?" "Because you are robber." "Oh, you are also great robber." When Alexander was charging him that, "You have done this," oh, he charges, "You have done this. I have entered a private house; you have entered a private state. So you are a big robber." Then he released him, "Yes, what is the difference between robber and me?" And Alexander, from that day, he stopped his conquering propaganda. "Alexander and the Robber." The robber proved that "You are a big robber only. But because you are big robber, therefore you are called 'Alexander the Great.' But my business is the same as yours-encroaching upon others' property. Why do you think that I am culprit and you are innocent? You are also culprit. If I had power, I could have punished you. And you have now power, you are trying to punish me." So Alexander the Great was convinced by robber.
Reporter: Well, what I'm getting at is that if for instance you say that first this conviction that they would not be able to land, and secondly that whatever earth people would go there would be opposed and would not be able to safely return, if you say this, based on Vedic literature, and other members of the Kṛṣṇa movement heard this, and then if the feat were accomplished, would this not seem a contradiction or something that had been said would be the case and then the opposite was proved true? Would this...
Prabhupāda: What is that contradiction? There is nothing contradiction. We say that if you get a suitable body you can enter there. So if by your scientific process you can equip yourself with suitable body you can enter there. Where is the contradiction?
Reporter: Well, you said that spacesuit was not a suitable...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. That is not suitable.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is from Upaniṣad. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki-jnana-bala-kriya ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). It is said that nobody is seeing... This is called research. You are accepting any nonsense as God, and they do not have any information from the..., that God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate: "God has nothing to do, no responsibility. Nobody is found greater than Him." So if this Vedic injunction is followed, if somebody is claiming, "I am God," we have to see whether he has nothing to do and whether nobody is greater than him. And these two tests will make him false immediately. He has to prove that nobody is greater than... Even contemporary... Suppose I am claiming I am God. So I have to show that at the present moment, throughout the whole world, apart from universe, nobody is greater than me. Then I am... Will these pretenders be able to show that nobody is greater than him? This is a simple test. And na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate: "And he has nothing to do." There are so many things to test who is God. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ.
Prabhupāda: So why he's taking Kṛṣṇa's book as authority? Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa's book. Everyone knows. Why he's taking Kṛṣṇa's book?
George Harrison: Well, he didn't. He just translated it into English.
Prabhupāda: Why? Unless he has got some respect for that book?
John Lennon: But I've also read another, part of another translation by Yogananda, Paramahamsa Yogananda.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will have to take Kṛṣṇa's book first to prove their authority.
Yoko Ono: But, er... What...
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has taken, Aurobindo has taken, Dr. Radhakrishnan has taken, Mahatma Gandhi... There are thousands and thousands. So why do they take Bhagavad-gītā?
George Harrison: So that we can read it in English.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of English. It is the question of the thoughts. English it may be or Parsee it may be. That doesn't matter. Why do they take shelter of the thoughts of Bhagavad-gītā unless they accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority? Why they quote from Bhagavad-gītā? So why not directly Bhagavad-gītā? If Bhagavad-gītā is the authority for everyone, why not Bhagavad-gita as it is? That is our proposition.
Prabhupāda: What proof is that is illusion?
Guest (3): No, no. Wait. The burden of the proof lies on you because I don't claim it is cotton. You claim it is cotton. So...
Prabhupāda: How do you say it is not cotton. First of all prove it.
Guest (3): Initially...
Prabhupāda: No! First of all prove it that it is not cotton.
Guest (3): No, no. One moment. You claim that it is cotton, therefore the burden of the proof lies on you inasmuch as you have to prove...
Prabhupāda: Everyone will say it is cotton. Everyone will say it is cotton. That is proof. Everyone will accept this is cotton, made of cotton. Who will say this is not made of cotton? But if I give you a lump of cotton instead of shirt will you accept it?
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So your father has got personality. And why the ultimate Godhead is not a person? What is this philosophy? If God is father, He must be person. How you can prove God imperson? Eh?
Haṁsadūta: Ah...
Prabhupāda: He is puzzled.
Devotee (1): I am puzzled.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Just try to understand this philosophy. If when I see practically my father has got head, his father has got head, his father has got head, head, head, head... Go on. And the ultimate father, why he has no head? What this poor person, gentleman, has done that he has no head? (laughter) This is... This nonsense theory is going on, that "God has no head. God has no legs. God has no hand." Imperson means He has no head, no leg, no... That means... And somebody says, "He is dead," and "void."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas. So my point is that we accept Vedic laws in such a way, without argument, accept because it is stated in the Vedas, and that is the principle followed by scholars. If you can substantiate your statement by quoting from the Vedas, then it is accepted. You do not require to substantiate in other ways if you prove by Vedic quotation. Śruti-pramāṇa. It is called śruti-pramāṇa. There are different kinds of pramāṇa, evidences. Just like in the legal court if you can give quotation from the law books, your statement is accepted, similarly, all statements which you give, if they are supported by śruti-pramāṇa... I think you know. The Vedas are known as Śrutis.
Revatīnandana: So that's what I was asking. 'Cause I said, "Does the table have a jīva soul?" I was trying to ask that question.
Śyāmasundara:That's what completely threw me off. I thought, "Oh..." That means the table is a person, this is a person, this is a...
Prabhupāda: A particular jīva soul was in that body. Then it is also proved that every jīva soul is individual. Although they are living combinedly, everything is individual.
Revatīnandana: Well, doesn't... That's all right then. Now the...
Prabhupāda: But that one jīva soul was prominent. He was visible. Others were in dormant condition. This proves that every individual soul is separate from the other; still, they can remain together. Just like the sunshine, they create... a small shining particles, combined together, molecules. So everything is combined spirit particles.
Śyāmasundara: This can be proven. This can be tested, if someone's cheating or not cheating can be tested on a factual basis. Similarly, this science can be tested...
Prabhupāda: Observation and experiment.
Śyāmasundara: Whether it has a good effect or it has a bad effect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming down from Kṛṣṇa through the chain of disciplic succession. So if it is actually given in the exact definition, that process, it is effective. And it is actually being experienced that it is effective.
Śyāmasundara: By using this analogy he's proving that there's a contingency. There's a... that wherever there's heat and wherever there's light there must be fire.
Dr. Weir: With respect, no, because you can have an infra-red (indistinct) which is not fire.
Śyāmasundara: The original source is fire.
Dr. Weir: Or ultra-violet, no.
Prabhupāda: How can you explain light without fire?
Dr. Weir: Ultraviolet light doesn't have a fire.
Prabhupāda: There is sun, ultraviolet rays of the sun.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges. He has stated also, just before that, vicāra. You marked?
Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?
Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.
Indian man (2): From Gītā. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the..., that Kṛṣṇa story and Kṛṣṇa religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.
Śyāmasundara: They don't know that life can be so joyful and endlessly...
Prabhupāda: That I wrote in my poetry. "The Absolute is sentient thou hast proved." That was striking to me. Not impersonal, "sentient thou hast proved, impersonal calamity thou hast moved." "Absolute is sentient thou hast proved." That was my acceptance. So even the many judges came in Allahabad, do you remember?
Prabhupāda: Helium gas. So that helium gas has entered within the balloon and it is floating. (laughter) So if the helium gas can float, cannot God float? If helium gas has so much power, God is less than helium gas or He is more than helium gas? So what is the difficulty to understand? God says, "I enter." So similarly, the helium gas enters and it makes possible that it floats. So what is the difficulty to understand? I see in my eyes. So He can become big helium gas. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: (BG 7.8) "I am the taste of the water." Water is important. We are drinking water for the taste. That taste is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, if you explain this law of gravitation, which we have discovered, is Kṛṣṇa, prove it by your scientific knowledge, that will be your service. Actually that is a fact. That is the fact. But you have to explain, just like I have given you this example. This is scientific. As you can float a balloon by creating helium gas, so there must be some gas like that; Kṛṣṇa enters into each and every planet or universe and it floats, that's all. They, not only the planets are floating, the universes are also floating. So you accept this theory or not? If not, clearly explain.
Prabhupāda: Each says, but you have to judge. Just like when you go to purchase two shillings' worth goods, you go to different stores. Everyone says, "Oh, my thing is very nice." But you have to judge which one is best. That depends on you. If you are a fool, then somebody will cheat you. And if you are not a fool, then you will know... Just like these rascals, they call themselves God. Such a fool can cheat another fool only. But one who knows what is God, he'll not accept it. One who knows Kṛṣṇa, he'll not accept him as God. He'll immediately compare, "What you have done like Kṛṣṇa or better than Kṛṣṇa that I shall accept you God? We have already our God, Kṛṣṇa. Now you prove that you are better than Kṛṣṇa or equal to Kṛṣṇa." That he cannot, so why I shall accept him as God? Why shall I accept him as spiritual master? That depends on your intelligence. If you are less intelligent, then you'll be cheated by this false God. So everyone has got intelligence, individuality, power of understanding, so you should try to use them, and then you can understand.
Prabhupāda: They are serious. They have got, they have got (indistinct). Our seriousness will be proved when our books and (indistinct) around thinking men, scholars. Similarly, we should introduce our (indistinct) colleges and universities. This is our program. So I have got my program now, (indistinct). So so far, Vṛndāvana question is concerned, there is, it is solved. Now you make, utilize, and place yourself in the world (indistinct) I want.
Prabhupāda: Universal. We present such God.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Moreover, we present a God that is lovable.
Prabhupāda: Lovable, yes. Practical. Anyone who comes in touch with Him, he becomes a lover of..., immediately. How you can say that is not God? You have to prove that He is not God. That you cannot.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: How many qualifications does a spiritual master have in terms of being a spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: One qualification: he is a devotee of God. That's all.
Prabhupāda: If you don't accept this kīrtana, then it will prove that you don't accept the philosophy.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. That's the difference between Your Divine Grace and all these other bhogis. They make it according to the taste of the people. They change. That's why this movement is so solid: no compromise.
Prabhupāda: No. Why compromise? My Guru Mahārāja never made any compromise.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Compromise means you have some material attachment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, compromise means you don't want real business but you want some money by cheating and by bluffing. That's all. That is compromise. If I aim... Just like this Mahesh Yogi is doing: Yes, God has given you senses, why should you not enjoy? You simply enjoy. You simply give me thirty-five dollars, I'll give you a special mantra. And here, Allen Ginsberg told me, Swamiji, you are very conservative. I said that I am the most lenient. I'm not conservative. You are conservative. You cannot give up your bad habits. I am very liberal and accepting everyone. But you are... Because you are conservative, you cannot give up your bad habits; therefore you deny to come to my camp. I am very liberal.
Prabhupāda: Because he sells, I mean to say, confectionery made of pure ghee you'll find always hundreds of customers waiting. And there are many dalda ghee shop not so crowded. Some cheap men are going there. So anything you present pure, there will be automatic customer. And that is being proved. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is, and He is being accepted everywhere, all over the world. But as soon as you make adulteration Kṛṣṇa, manufacture your concoction—"Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this," all nonsense talk—immediately lost. Why should we do that, adulteration? There is no business adulterating. So many scholars, so many swamis, they have simply presented adulterated. Just like even Mahatma Gandhi says, "The Kurukṣetra means this body." And where he got this meaning? Where is the dictionary meaning? You should speak something which must be authorized. Where is the dictionary where Kurukṣetra is explained as this body? And Kurukṣetra station is still existing. People are going to Kurukṣetra for religious performances. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre. Why should I interpret Kurukṣetra, "the body"? This is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And so they..., they're reversing that, these people who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is appearing as poison in the beginning, that will prove nectar at the end. (break) Even ordinary dealings. Just like I have given one watch to Śyāmasundara, that Omega. So I paid him... One hundred dollars has been spent to make it correct time, but it is not. Everyone, "Yes, I will make it repaired."
Devotee (2): The devotee is always offering devotional service to the Supreme Personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (inaudible). Simply by knowledge... Knowledge you must have, but simply theoretical knowledge... Practical manifestation that he's a great devotee. Whenever there is any doubt or question, he will prove by the evidences of śāstra.
Prabhupāda: That means they do not follow any practical. That is their rascaldom. Nothing practical means they do not know what is the practical realization of God. That is their ignorance. And still they are claiming to be teachers. That is cheating. Just like these so-called scientists, they are theorizing, but they cannot practically prove. Therefore, their knowledge is imperfect. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Jñānavān, the wise, after many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, when he surrenders, that is practical. Simply knowledge is useless, theoretical. When he practically surrenders, that is end of knowledge. That is perfection.
Prabhupāda: Our process of presentation is different. Their process is different. But they can appreciate that we know better than them. The same example: just like we accept cow dung is pure. Why pure? Because Vedas says. The scientific way is not like that. Is not that?
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They must prove by analysis, by chemical analysis. There is difference between the modern scientist and our process of understanding.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Brahmā: The blind leading the blind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All rascals, mūḍhāḥ. Our simple formula is: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. Never mind what he is. We immediately reject him, a rascal. Our simple formula. And actually they're rascals. They're talking like rascals, childish, that life came from matter. Prove it. That future. What is this? I am very rich man. And as soon as I ask you: "Give me some money." "Oh, yes, I'll give you in future." What is this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started from a point where there's no background. There's no...
Prabhupāda: No background. That is another thing. And still, they cannot prove it at present. They're expecting to prove it in the future.
Karandhara: They say: "It happened in the past, but we'll do it in the future."
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense?
Karandhara: But who did it in the past?
Prabhupāda: And how, how he knows that it began in the past? If he cannot prove it in the present?
Prabhupāda: Assume, everyone can assume. That is not science. Assuming, then, everyone can suggest something like. You can suggest something, I can suggest something. What is the proof? We can prove that life begins from life. Just like father begets a child. Father is living and the child is living. That we can prove. But where is your proof that the father is a stone and the son is a child? Where is your proof? We say that life begins from life. The original life is Kṛṣṇa. That we can prove. But you say that life begins from matter. Where is this evidence that a child is born out of stone.
Prabhupāda: A missing link? Then I kick on your face. You're missing this kick. Now learn it. Nonsense. Here is the missing point. Just learn it. Write vigorous articles to kick on the face of these rascals. All of you. You have got so much advanced laboratories, advanced knowledge. You do not... even you are defying the authority of God. You have become so great. And you cannot prove that life is coming out of matter. That you are leaving aside for future. And I have to believe such a rascal? Do you think it is nice? You are talking all nonsense, and I have to believe you?
Prabhupāda: :For the dead body means, that is a particular dead body. It is not the life energy. That is individuality. The life-energy—producing chemicals are already there. But that particular individual living entity has left. Just like I live in a room. So I leave this room. You cannot find me. But there are many other living entities there. There are ants, there are spider, there are so many. So that does not mean because I have left that room, it is lacking the accommodations. The accommodation is there. Other living entities are living there. I have left. I am individual. I have left. Therefore the individual soul is proved.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they do not know the inner meaning...
Prabhupāda: No, inner meaning is there. But they would not explain that. Simply the dark side, they would explain. And prove that the Indian civilization was very crude and primitive. It has no enlightenment. That was British propaganda. Even during national movement, they bribed one American woman, and she wrote a book: "Mother India." Do you know that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I, no...
Prabhupāda: Ah. "Mother India." She described all the blackmailing of Indian social activities, and Gandhi remarked it: "Drain Inspector's report."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this is a demoniac quality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These Britishers should have tried to assimilate the mass Indian culture with their help, administrative help, to broadcast this culture. No. They wanted to exploit India, and prove that "our ruling over India"... Because they have to show something to the outside world...
Prabhupāda: But why don't you create from sand? Flying like that. You are so advanced. Take some grains of sand and create another fly. They cannot create even an ant, and still they say that life is coming out from matter. And in future we shall create. In future, what is your credit? It is already there. If your science is perfect, that life is coming out of matter, now prove it by laboratory experiment. Take some sand and create some life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The greatest fool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He admits that: "In future, we shall complete." That means insufficient knowledge. Still, they are proud. That is their foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are proud because they do not see the reality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are fools. The same philosophy. The pot man is thinking of becoming a millionaires, pot. By thinking so, he has become millionaire. So these fools are like that. Thinking that in future they will make all solution, they are presenting themselves as perfect scientists. That is their foolishness. Our proposition is: "First of all you prove that you are, you are millionaires. Then talk of all this nonsense. You cannot prove, and still why you declare yourself as scientist?" Scientist means one who has got perfect knowledge. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Life, yes. They are searching after the original source. That is life, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all causes. So this is not theory; this is fact. Now we have to prove it. Then the whole program of these rascals' theory will be changed, and people will be happy. Because they are standing on a wrong theory, all their calculations are wrong, and people are suffering. The rascal Darwin's theory. So many, based on this foolish theory, wrong conception of life. So we have to challenge, protest. defeat. This will be our work. Our worshiping of Kṛṣṇa, that is our internal affair. The external affair—we need to establish this theory. Otherwise they'll be leading this society. Misleading. They are misleading, not leading, misleading. So we have to stop this misleading. Make program how to do it. Because it is truth, you will come triumphant. There is no doubt about it. It is truth. Now you have to know how to present the truth. That is your business.
Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal. And who exalts them? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: other lower animals like dogs, the hogs, śva-viḍ-varāha, camel and ass. So one big animal is being praised by these kinds of animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working. Where is the difficulty to understand? Now, this man thinks himself very stout and strong, but why he is stout and strong? On account of that small spiritual spark is there. As soon as the small spiritual spark is gone, stout and strong has no meaning. Immediately all the birds will come. Vultures will come and eat him, eat the body. Immediately.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when we establish the theory of acintya-śakti...
Prabhupāda: Not only acintya-śakti. First of all you have to establish that life is not from matter. Matter is from life. Then they will be under your control. First of all you have to establish. Because their whole scientific advancement is going on on this basis, that life is from matter. But that is not the fact. Matter is from life, just the opposite. First of all you have to establish this. Why don't you write a theory and get Nobel Prize? This is a fact. Now you have to prove only, by their scientific words. That's all. Fact is this is. Are you convinced about this fact, that matter comes from life, not life comes from matter? Are you convinced or not? Otherwise how you can write?
Prabhupāda: And nora means mortar and what is called, pestle? So it is your śilā nora. I take it and break your teeth. (laughter) So take their, this jugglery of words and break their teeth. That should be the policy. "These molecules and this and that," so many words. You have to simply catch their words, and with their words kill them. That is intelligence. We are saying plainly. You say with these words which is their sona, mortar and pestle, and break their teeth. That's all. Tora śilā tora nora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?) This policy should be adopted. Otherwise, we know they are rascals. But if I say, rascal, people will say, "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?" "Therefore I am flattering you that otherwise..." You haven't got to convince me, that (he's a) rascal. I know that he is a rascal. Now, because we have to prove that he is a rascal to another rascal, we have to take your help. This is our policy. Otherwise, so far we are concerned, if they go on lecturing for millions of years, we shall kick on their face. You should know he is mistaken. Let the rascal speak whatever he likes. We know the conclusion.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what about in mineralogy? Scientists have proven that, for example, mountains are growing by sedimentary activity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also growing on spirit soul, Supersoul.
Paramahaṁsa: In the mountain?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything. Mountains have been described in the Bhāgavata as the bones of God. These grasses are described as hairs on the body of God. These holes, there are holes, we saw that. They have been described as oceans. So in this way, this virāṭ, the biggest body. As the smallest body is producing chemical, similarly the biggest body also, producing chemical. A small tree, lemon tree, how many pounds of the citric acid it is produced?
Paramahaṁsa: At least, the animals live by certain codes. They do not kill unless necessary. They only eat when necessary, whereas man, he kills unnecessarily, eats unnecessarily. So forgetting God, we are even lower than animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we suffer also, more than the animals. (pause) So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a bogus religious sentimental movement. It is a scientific movement. So now it is up to you to prove this. Then you will be actually Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Hyerpolosvel. (Prabhupāda's mythical scientific word) (laughter)
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: He invents his own word jugglery.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was trying to present the difference between organic beings and the non-organic beings. So he goes in such a round about fashion just to differentiate.
Prabhupāda: Petitio principii. This logic is called petitio principii. He has to prove something, but he is taking his premises from that something.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How to prove that the soul is eternal?
Prabhupāda: That is the first lesson. You do not understand? You are a child, now you're a grown up boy. Where is your childhood? Where is that body? Ha? The dead body does not exist but you are existing. That means you're eternal. Body has changed, but you have not changed. Circumstances have changed, but you have not changed. This is the proof of (indistinct). What do you want more? You may remember that I did yesterday these things, today I remember yesterday's activities, but your body of yesterday is not this body. Do you admit or not? As a scientist, the body has changed already. He cannot say that 1973, twelfth May yesterday. He cannot say. It is already changed. But you remember everything of yesterday. That is eternity. The body has changed, but you remember everything. Therefore you are eternal, body's not eternal. This is the proof. Simple proof, even a child can understand. But they'll not understand. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfect knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: Before understanding, trying to understand God by His universe.
David Wynne: And science almost denies the existence of God in order to exist, doesn't it?
Prabhupāda: That is a rascal. These rascals say like that. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is rascal number one. Immediately. And anyone, he may be a great scientist or philosopher, let him come. If he says that "I don't believe in God," then I shall prove that "You are rascal number one." That I shall prove.
Śyāmasundara: We'll bring you some scientists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So many scientists, psychologists, philosophers came to me.
Śyāmasundara: Mister... Lord Brockway has been a vegetarian his life long.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's very... That's a good advancement for spiritual understanding.
Lord Brockway: Yes, I became a vegetarian, oh, seventy years ago.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see.
Lord Brockway: All from ascetic ideas, humanitarian ideas. And I've proved one can be just as healthy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you look very healthy.
Lord Brockway: Over eighty-five years. I'm very fortunate.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he's older than me. Still, he looks very nice.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Still active in the Parliament.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cardinal Danielou: No. Without, without, impermanent. Life of man is permanent.
Prabhupāda: That, that, that difference is due to development of consciousness. The human body, human body, you get developed consciousness. Just like this tree. It is also a living entity, but it's consciousness is not yet fructified. If you cut the tree, it does not resist. But it resists in a very small degree. That is proved by the scientists. The Sir Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he's also a very great scientist. He has made machine: when you cut the tree, it feels and it is recorded in the machine.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence. That is his theory, like Darwin's theory, that life is from matter or chemical. So after hearing the lecture, there is a professor also, a student, yes. He is also Doctor of Chemistry. He is my disciple. He inquired that "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?" At that time he said, "That I cannot say." Just see. He is proposing that "From these chemicals, life has begun," and when he is questioned whether by supplying these chemicals he can produce a life, he said, "That I cannot say." This is going on.
Yogeśvara: They will say that: "If you..." Just like... Actually things... There is no order behind things. If you throw a ball against a wall...
Prabhupāda: Who is rascal throwing that ball? Who is that rascal? Throwing that ball? If you are giving that example, somebody's throwing ball, who is that rascal, throwing that ball?
Yogeśvara: Let's say someone who wants to prove there's no direction to the way..."
Prabhupāda: Rascal, if you, as soon as you say: "Throwing ball," somebody's throwing. How can you deny it? You give the example, "throwing ball," but throwing ball means somebody's throwing.
Bhagavān: The original thrower.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The motion is given by somebody.
Śrutakīrti: No! Therefore, I don't think he's very widely accepted as God.
Prabhupāda: No. That's all right. But whatever propaganda, little, he has made, we must make some counter-propaganda. We must prove him... Simply pushing eyes, pushing eyes. And anyone can push one's eyes and there is some light within... That is called retina light or... What is called? And he has become God. At least, we, we should not allow the people to be in darkness and accept him as God. We have got our meeting. We shall say: That he is a rascal. Call him by all ill names. A cheater. He does not believe in the authoritative scriptures. And he has become God? What he has done? How you have become so foolish? God has created the universe, what he has created? A cake, creating, He's God?
Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually they are not prepared. Then you suffer.
Guest (1): Then you try to be prepared.
Prabhupāda: They are not prepared because as soon as they understand that they are going to be one these varieties of life, they shudder. Therefore they do not like to understand this. If by logic I prove that you are going to be a dog next life, that is very difficult. Just like one astrologer has said that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Sweden. You know that?
Prabhupāda: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.
Prabhupāda: Useless. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. It is already taken. Nirūpita means there is no argument. It is already concluded.
Guest (1): Your business is not to prove or disprove, but to glorify Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physicist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist... Anyway, because ultimate... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Any knowledge, that is... You have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment men of knowledge they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they are rejecting. They do not bother.
Brahmānanda: You said that last night when you spoke that about we are actually siddhas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: We are not...
Prabhupāda: That I wanted to prove... (laughs)
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...that these boys are siddhas. Others, they do not know what is siddhi.
Brahmānanda: They have not even left family connection, you said.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That I... That Mr. Kokoor...
Brahmānanda: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: ...talking high talks. Simply high words will not do.
Prabhupāda: Devotee means he does not know anything better than Kṛṣṇa, that's all.
Guest: But suppose a man who is working in life with always that consciousness, is he...
Prabhupāda: What is that consciousness?
Guest: That he knows nothing but Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That his actions will prove.
Guest: No, not action. Just you say the brāhmaṇa must do by actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: So a devotee is also by actions he can do it?
Prabhupāda: By symptoms.
Prabhupāda: The heart is seat, sitting place.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the new heart had spirit soul from the new one.
Prabhupāda: Spirit soul, new or old there is. But if you can prove by changing the heart you can increase the duration of life, then you can catch the spirit soul.
Karandhara: That they're not able to do.
Prabhupāda: That is their nonsense.
Prabhupāda: But we answer, we answer. We have got the knowledge. The gas came from ether, and ether came from mind, and mind came from intelligence, and intelligence came from the soul.
Hṛdayānanda: They will say you cannot prove that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we can prove that.
Hṛdayānanda: How will you prove it?
Prabhupāda: You see still, gases, I mean to say, cloud is forming in the sky. But you have no eyes to see it.
Karandhara: :We are imperfect. How do we know what a perfect source is?
Prabhupāda: No, I do not know. Therefore it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum evābhigacchet. You must know from the person who knows.
Karandhara: He's also imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Well his perfection is proved there is satisfaction. The so-called scientists, philosophers, politicians, they could not bring peace in the world. That is their fools.
Karandhara: We have also not brought peace in the world.
Prabhupāda: No, our all followers are peaceful. We... I'm getting thousands of letters, how much you are benefited.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is experimental.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "It cannot be proved."
Prabhupāda: No, why not proved? Just like I gave you the... this water, this sand, it is practical. Now you must know somebody has made it.
Karandhara: Well, the difficulty is, in a group of atheists, you can't prove God no matter what you say.
Prabhupāda: No, atheists, kick them on their face. Atheists, they are... Those who are reasonable, that everything see, that somebody has made. So this sand is also made by somebody, the water is also made by somebody, the sky is also made by somebody. Now you find out who is that somebody. That is knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No, you can see, but you have no eyes to see. Suppose there are so many richest person. We have not seen, but they must be admitted. Just like in your country, Rockefeller. So it does not mean—one has not heard about Rockefeller—therefore it does not exist.
Karandhara: But Rockefeller is constantly having to prove and assert his power.
Prabhupāda: No, prove to you, prove to me, but there are many who does not know. So that does not mean the Rockefeller is not existing. Your limited sense cannot approach. Therefore you cannot say that the thing is not existing. That is another rascaldom.
Karandhara: They say they've seen Guru Maharaji lifting Govardhana Hill, and they've seen his universal form.
Prabhupāda: No, Govardhana Hill, when he lifted, everyone saw.
Karandhara: The scientists want to see it also to believe in Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so show him. Show him. But prove him. Then everybody says that... I have got some disciple. I can say also, "I am God. My disciples have seen it. Believe me." Say that.
Prabhupāda: Why? If they are actually theologians, why they should not hear? Jesus Christ says that he's the son of God. But why not of the father. And what is this?
Karandhara: They make reference to one... He supposedly said that he was the only way, that no man could come to God the father except through Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so we accept the only way. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa. Take Bible, yes.
Prajāpati: But they will quote a reference in the Bible that says, "No other book."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, don't accept no other book. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, wonderful.
Prabhupāda: But tradition, what is that tradition? Tradition is here, in the proof. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The reference is given to the quality, guṇa, and karma, and action. How you can simply say that because I'm born in such and such family, therefore I have also the same thing. Because my father was high-court judge, therefore I am high-court judge. Is that very good logic? How you became superior? You have to prove your superiority by your qualification and actual work. This is very nice. The world is accepting like that. Somebody's coming to you to accept some scientific instruction. He accepts you're superior in scientific knowledge, not for your birth, but for your quality and work. That is fact. So you first of all come to the platform of the quality and work, then you claim superior.
Prabhupāda: Just see how rascaldom is going on. What is the use of our going there? "Things are going on..." Suppose in another state, something is going on. So are you interested? Going... Let them go. What is the benefit out of it? You spend so much money, public. Simply to see. "There is a crack." Last conclusion: "There was a crack." Just see how they are spoiling hard-earned public money. Because there is no good leader, all these rascals are benefitting, taking their money, and enjoying, and giving bluff information to the public. This should be stopped. Immediately this should be stopped. What is their contribution? The same thing: a dog is already barking, and because they're imitating barking, they're being awarded Nobel Prize, "Oh, how you can bark nicely!" This is going on. There is life already. It is practical. Everyone sees that a man and woman combines and there is child, life, another life. And now, foolishly they want to prove that life comes from matter. And as soon as we offer that "You take this matter. Produce," "That we shall see later on." Just see. In this way, they're spoiling money. So because there is no good leader, these rascals are not stopped.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The eclipse?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the science proves it.
Prabhupāda: Science proves everything. That is their nonsense. They, amongst their community, they have proved everything except what he is, he does not know. Except that thing, what he is, he does, he does not know. And why he dies. He does not know. That is his knowledge.
Yaśomatīnandana: Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. If the constitution is that, that in the name of religion somebody cheats, the government should take action, so here it is being done. So we have to maintain so many departments to fight with these wrongdoers. Why not make a test case that "This man is declaring himself God. How he is God? Let him prove in the court." Why not institute a case?
Prabhupāda: So you are trying... Why you are trying to explain it? Why you are trying to explain it?
Karandhara: Yes, actually he is trying to make reason out of the absurdity.
Prabhupāda: To prove absurd is his reason? That means absurd reason.
Karandhara: Well, that's what he ultimately realized, that everything is absurd. There is no use speaking, writing or even living.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the thing is that you are saying "absurd," I am saying, "not absurd." Who will settle up this? That is the... If you settle your own affair. I settle my own affair. So who will settle up, whether I am right, you are right?
Prabhupāda: Because his eyes have no value without hearing from the authority. These are the general psychology. He has got eyes. Let him be educated at home. Why he is sent to school? Let him see everything. How these rascals say like that, I am surprised. "I cannot see in my eyes." You cannot see in your eyes what was the length and breadth of your body in the mother's womb. But does it mean that you did not exist in the mother's womb? You cannot see who is your father. How do you believe that this is my father? Is that depending on your eyes? Then what is the value of your eyes? Why these rascals say that "I do not see." These things prove that they are rascals.
Prabhupāda: No, you may think, but what is the opinion of the scientist?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, scientists would say that there is no background.
Prabhupāda: So how it so happens?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they say something which cannot be proved by experimental science, that does not work, calling science.
Prabhupāda: So then how do you say that life is from matter? That cannot be proved by experiment.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they are going to prove it. They are trying to prove it.
Prabhupāda: Then again, "going to prove." They cannot prove, they'll not not admit it.
| Page Title: | Prove (Conv. 1967 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 23 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=84, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 84 |